:01:19. > :01:22.Coming up on Sunday Politics in Northern Ireland - Alex Maskey on
:01:22. > :01:26.issues raised at Sinn Fein's weekend ard fheis in Castlebar. And
:01:26. > :01:36.is it time for the Civic Forum to make a comeback? Join me in half an
:01:36. > :01:36.
:01:36. > :37:57.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2180 seconds
:37:57. > :38:00.Hello and welcome to Sunday Politics in Northern Ireland. It
:38:00. > :38:04.was into the west for Sinn Fein this weekend as the party held its
:38:04. > :38:06.annual Ard Fheis in County Mayo. Staged at the Royal Theatre in
:38:06. > :38:09.Castlebar, some 2000 delegates last night heard the party president,
:38:09. > :38:16.Gerry Adams, mark his thirtieth year in charge with a promise to
:38:16. > :38:20.continue to build alliances with unionists and loyalists. We'll be
:38:20. > :38:24.picking up on that theme along with some of the others raised in the
:38:24. > :38:27.course of the conference with Alex Maskey who is with me in the studio.
:38:27. > :38:30.And remember this? The Civic Forum - costly talking shop or vital link
:38:30. > :38:34.with the society? Whatever you think, is now the right time to
:38:34. > :38:37.bring it back? Joining me to discuss that and more
:38:37. > :38:47.are Liam Clarke, the Political Editor of the Belfast Telegraph,
:38:47. > :38:50.and the journalist and commentator Fionnuala O Connor.
:38:50. > :38:53.The weather didn't quite manage to top the soaring temperatures in
:38:53. > :38:55.Killarney for last year's Ard Fheis - but the agenda for this year's
:38:55. > :38:57.conference touched on a number of familiar themes including
:38:57. > :39:06.continuing dialogue with loyalists and unionists. Here's our
:39:06. > :39:15.correspondent, Shane Harrison. Castlebar in the heart of County
:39:15. > :39:21.Mayo. The political base where this party holds four of the five seats.
:39:21. > :39:27.A Sinn Fein is to continue growing, it will have to do so in places
:39:27. > :39:32.like this in the West. That is why this year ard fehis attracted the
:39:32. > :39:42.party faithful and some new. would like to take this opportunity
:39:42. > :39:43.
:39:43. > :39:49.to welcome a representative of all three British... The shadow British
:39:49. > :39:53.Secretary of State, a member of the Labour Party. I am very pleased to
:39:53. > :39:59.have been asked. It was a significant moment for me. I
:39:59. > :40:06.understand it to be the first British shake-up -- Shadow
:40:06. > :40:16.Secretary of state to be invited to the conference. Anti-abortion
:40:16. > :40:20.
:40:20. > :40:23.campaigners picketed the conference. They say they are not pro-life. It
:40:23. > :40:28.allows for abortion. But the party believes the option to terminate
:40:29. > :40:36.should be available in cases of rape, incest and sexual abuse or
:40:36. > :40:41.where a woman's life is in danger. As for free will as far elected
:40:41. > :40:45.representatives, they said, no way. Sinn Fein is a party that is not
:40:45. > :40:54.afraid to take on challenges. It is not a collection of independence.
:40:54. > :40:58.We consistently criticise our opponents. Although beaten in the
:40:58. > :41:04.vote by the leadership, some suggested abortion was the main
:41:04. > :41:11.issue the party has faced since it started on the peace process.
:41:11. > :41:19.can sit here all weekend, but it is a sad state of affairs that the
:41:19. > :41:24.Tory party and Cameron will allow a free vote on the marriage. They in
:41:24. > :41:27.his leadership speech, Gerry Adams said it was essential an imperative
:41:27. > :41:34.that Republicans try to build alliances with working-class
:41:34. > :41:37.loyalists and Unionists about social and economic issues. He said
:41:37. > :41:47.Republicans should not shirk away from their obligations to those who
:41:47. > :41:48.
:41:48. > :41:52.died as a result because -- he says cause the conflict. I am prepared
:41:52. > :41:58.to meet the victim's families in the state debt they think this will
:41:58. > :42:04.be helpful. Before leaving County Mayo, delegates voted to call on
:42:04. > :42:12.Alex Attwood to find a more up suitable name for the Royal
:42:12. > :42:20.shopping Exchange development in north Belfast. The vote took place
:42:20. > :42:23.in Castlebar's Royal Theatre. Joining me now is Sinn Fein's Alex
:42:23. > :42:25.Maskey. Gerry Adams talked in his speech last night about the
:42:25. > :42:28.importance of continuing dialogue with unionists and loyalists.
:42:28. > :42:30.They're not going to go away, he said & Sinn Fein doesn't want them
:42:30. > :42:39.to. But Martin McGuinness talked about unionists being inward-
:42:39. > :42:47.looking and intransigent. So which is it? You got the impression that
:42:47. > :42:57.abortion was a divisive issue. There was a farm mood of optimism
:42:57. > :42:58.
:42:58. > :43:03.about the future. The North was being held up as a shining example.
:43:03. > :43:09.The several speakers boasted of we have stopped water charges in the
:43:09. > :43:14.north. Northern Ministers talked about the achievements there, it is
:43:14. > :43:18.being held up as an example of what Sinn Fein can do, which was a bit
:43:18. > :43:25.of a change of what we think of Stormont. What about the mixed
:43:25. > :43:31.message in that people pointed out? Gerry Adams talking about
:43:31. > :43:41.continuing dialogue with Unionists and loyalists. Martin McGuinness
:43:41. > :43:41.
:43:41. > :43:51.told to bet -- talked about stepping up to the plate. I do not
:43:51. > :43:53.
:43:53. > :43:58.think anybody would see that as a message at all. The supporters was
:43:58. > :44:04.that this is what the party should be doing. Gerry and Martin have to
:44:04. > :44:09.keep reaching out and say we want a further reconciliation. But
:44:09. > :44:14.Unionists are not doing their bit and Unionists are putting us back.
:44:14. > :44:19.They are always saying there is no reason to reconcile. I do not think
:44:19. > :44:25.that sense a mixed message at all. There is a two audience there.
:44:25. > :44:29.There is the wider audience who are also paying attention to what is
:44:29. > :44:37.happening. They might see that as a mixed message. Her they might see
:44:37. > :44:45.that as that. Sinn Fein is working very hard to reach out. There is a
:44:45. > :44:55.limited sector of them that will talk to them. I don't think they
:44:55. > :44:56.
:44:56. > :45:04.are at all worried about saying this. It is the other way round, if
:45:04. > :45:14.there is a mixed message to the, Martin McGuinness wants to say
:45:14. > :45:15.
:45:15. > :45:25.Peter Robinson has not been sharing. There are unionists, we have heard
:45:25. > :45:29.
:45:29. > :45:34.them saying it, do not stock about reaching out. Sinn Fein would say
:45:34. > :45:44.the Unionists are the ones who are refusing to move forward. You did
:45:44. > :45:51.sense frustration from Martin McGuinness. The message was that he
:45:51. > :45:55.believes Unionists lacked confidence. They are not coming for
:45:55. > :46:01.words. I do not get a sense it was any threat of pulling out of
:46:01. > :46:07.Government. He just said, we need to do business more quickly and
:46:07. > :46:13.more efficiently. What about some of the other issues that were in
:46:13. > :46:17.the background? Like for example, Economics north and south, welfare
:46:17. > :46:23.and changes that are happening in Northern Ireland. And of course the
:46:23. > :46:32.abortion debate. We saw that in the report there. These are big things
:46:32. > :46:40.for Sinn Fein. I do not think they are giving them that much trouble.
:46:40. > :46:47.There was a debate, there is division regarding abortion. It is
:46:47. > :46:53.not something that will tear them apart. I think there is an attitude
:46:53. > :47:03.of we must be compassionate. It fits very well with the general
:47:03. > :47:11.
:47:11. > :47:19.feeling in the south. I think Sinn Fein have this luxury of being in
:47:19. > :47:23.opposition, they can move back and forward on various issues. There is
:47:23. > :47:30.very little opposition in the south, I think, for bashing them for what
:47:30. > :47:33.they say. They can do that will the cows come home and not be
:47:33. > :47:41.criticised by the people they want to reach. High what about those
:47:41. > :47:50.issues, Economics? On economics, the main focus was on the economy
:47:50. > :47:54.of the South. They held up the north as an example of what Sinn
:47:54. > :48:03.Fein can do in Government to stabilise the economy. They send
:48:03. > :48:08.out a signal that they would do some reform on the Bedroom Tax.
:48:08. > :48:17.Abortion I think is a serious issue because it is the sort of issue
:48:17. > :48:27.that people will vote on. You might not agree with them on education,
:48:27. > :48:32.but you could agree with them on abortion. We are joined now by Alex
:48:32. > :48:39.Maskey. There you were down in the conference, you picked up on some
:48:39. > :48:45.of the issues dealt with there. Gerry Adams talked about the
:48:45. > :48:48.continuing need for discussion. We heard Martin McGuinness talking
:48:48. > :48:58.about Unionists being inward- looking and intransigent. Which is
:48:58. > :49:04.
:49:04. > :49:08.it? It is both, actually. There are a lot of people within Unionism
:49:08. > :49:18.across society who know that there has to be dialogue and want to have
:49:18. > :49:20.
:49:20. > :49:30.dialogue. NI recent attempts over last year to have dialogue around
:49:30. > :49:33.
:49:33. > :49:37.reconciliation, we do not believe... Sinn Fein talks the top, but
:49:37. > :49:41.doesn't walk the walk. You say you want to work with Unionists, you
:49:41. > :49:51.want engagement. Then you adopt what they regard a belligerent
:49:51. > :49:57.
:49:57. > :50:07.attitude. We think our position on the flanks is consistent. -- flaks.
:50:07. > :50:15.
:50:15. > :50:25.-- flags. That is the purpose of having a dialogue. The T U P was
:50:25. > :50:28.meant to argue it around the Good Friday Agreement. -- DUP. It
:50:28. > :50:38.compels the parties in both governments to deal with the issue
:50:38. > :50:42.
:50:42. > :50:47.of flax. -- flags. Equality is at the cornerstone of the Good Friday
:50:47. > :50:54.Agreement. That was a tricky issue for you or party to navigate over
:50:54. > :50:59.the weekend, given it is such up divisive issue both north and south.
:50:59. > :51:07.You are not a pro-abortion party, but nobody said you are pro-choice.
:51:07. > :51:13.I think the debate on that question on the weekend was appropriate. I
:51:13. > :51:23.think the recent arguments, and scandalous debate in the north
:51:23. > :51:30.
:51:30. > :51:38.around the Assembly debate, it was to exploit the issue. The party
:51:38. > :51:42.rejected that motion. The party has a very settled view. There are
:51:42. > :51:50.people in it who are very pro-life and there. They have spoken
:51:50. > :51:56.publicly. There are people in our party who have views on abortion in
:51:56. > :52:03.the same way that people in every other walk of life in Ireland. When
:52:03. > :52:11.I hear people talking, it is an issue of conscience for every
:52:11. > :52:19.person. People have a pinions and every party, but the clear debate
:52:19. > :52:22.at the weekend shows that we have a settled view on it. Her let's talk
:52:22. > :52:27.about the welfare issues that we have discussed on his programme
:52:27. > :52:35.before. Her you are in Government in Northern Ireland, you are
:52:35. > :52:40.commenting on austerity measures. We will argue, we are a Government
:52:40. > :52:49.in the north that doesn't have tax raising powers which we want to
:52:49. > :52:58.have transferred here. We are operating a Government were we have
:52:58. > :53:07.had �4 billion taken away from our Government. We have the ministerial
:53:07. > :53:12.influence and that cuts across the programme for Government. On only
:53:12. > :53:19.on one issue, that is the Spare Room Subsidy, has your party
:53:19. > :53:26.threatened to use, promised to use, a petition of concern. We might do
:53:26. > :53:33.that. I have had a number of bilateral with a number of people
:53:33. > :53:37.from other parties, we made it clear that there are issues of
:53:37. > :53:47.welfare reform that we are not going to support and we are not
:53:47. > :53:48.
:53:48. > :53:57.going to except. Give me an example of another issue of where you might
:53:57. > :54:03.use the Petition of concern? There are issues around disability
:54:03. > :54:11.entitlements which the British Government want to take away 20%.
:54:11. > :54:16.That is a real conversation you are having within the party? Absolutely.
:54:16. > :54:24.This kind of austerity has been imposed on us by London. This
:54:24. > :54:30.battle is not over yet. We will leave it there. Thank you very much
:54:30. > :54:33.for joining us. Tributes to Baroness Thatcher,
:54:33. > :54:36.tough talking from the Secretary of State and the troubled A5 dual
:54:36. > :54:46.carriageway project. It's all in the week in 60 seconds, with Gareth
:54:46. > :54:47.
:54:47. > :54:53.Gordon. Baroness Thatcher's debt -- death
:54:53. > :55:03.is marked by the divisions in her life. I am in the despatch box
:55:03. > :55:04.
:55:04. > :55:14.making positive remarks. Others held street parties to the
:55:14. > :55:15.
:55:15. > :55:19.displeasure of Martin McGuinness. It is not something I would do.
:55:19. > :55:24.Government warned that the economic package could be withdrawn if
:55:24. > :55:27.progress was not being made. If we cannot agree, it is a fact that we
:55:27. > :55:32.may not be able to deliver some of the things we have been talking
:55:32. > :55:42.about. Which could also apply to the troubled a five dual-
:55:42. > :55:47.
:55:47. > :55:50.carriageway project between two towns.
:55:50. > :55:53.Fifteen years on from the signing of the Good Friday Agreement, the
:55:53. > :55:56.Assembly has supported a motion by the SDLP calling on the First and
:55:56. > :55:59.Deputy First Ministers to reconvene the Civic Forum. The body was set
:55:59. > :56:01.up to allow people from outside the political world to influence
:56:01. > :56:08.decision-making over social, economic and cultural issues. It
:56:08. > :56:11.was suspended along with the devolved institutions in 2002.
:56:11. > :56:15.Unionists are not happy the motion squeaked through by one vote - many
:56:15. > :56:22.of them say it was a costly talking shop. Community worker Alan McBride
:56:23. > :56:28.was a member of the Forum between 2000 and 2002 - and he joins me now.
:56:28. > :56:33.Thank you for joining us. Do you think it is an organisation they
:56:33. > :56:37.should be brought back and does have an contribution to make?
:56:37. > :56:47.not think it ever achieved its potential because when it was put
:56:47. > :56:48.
:56:48. > :56:57.in place in 2002, I think that the idea of bringing other voices from
:56:57. > :57:03.civic society to be a rotten, is a good idea. It should be something
:57:03. > :57:06.that should be thought more about. Does it need to be established as a
:57:06. > :57:12.Civic Forum when individuals are Brotton, when there is a
:57:12. > :57:22.significant cost to the public purse? There is a cost to their
:57:22. > :57:27.public purse. It does cost money to set the thing up. Depending on how
:57:27. > :57:32.you set it up, we could save money. We might not need to go to big
:57:32. > :57:38.fancy hotels for meetings. We could go to community centres, there are
:57:38. > :57:42.ways to save money. In terms of working out whether it will because
:57:42. > :57:47.they are not, it should be about what it achieves and delivers.
:57:47. > :57:57.you aware of other individuals like you come into contact with as you
:57:57. > :57:58.
:57:58. > :58:07.work -- through your work as a community worker, who feel that
:58:07. > :58:12.this would be of value? Absolutely. If you had people around a table
:58:12. > :58:16.from the business community, from the church is talking about issues,
:58:16. > :58:22.something could come from that which could make a difference.
:58:22. > :58:26.have a public debate, you have it on the air ways and newspapers. To
:58:26. > :58:30.have those public debates, their argument seems to be, we'll listen
:58:30. > :58:35.to people who vote to us, we'll listen to these organisations, we
:58:35. > :58:39.do not need to set up a separate forum to do that because it was not
:58:39. > :58:47.successful the last time. It did not go far enough to let it run its
:58:47. > :58:54.course. It was not just a talking shop. Those things had to run their
:58:54. > :59:02.course and could have achieved positive things in Northern Ireland.
:59:02. > :59:09.There was a view on the Civic Forum was -- and there was no desire to
:59:09. > :59:17.see a reconstituted. Do you think there was a change in view? I think
:59:18. > :59:22.there is a potential for it to achieve something. The idea, the
:59:22. > :59:29.concept, I think is still a good concept. Her thank you very much
:59:29. > :59:38.were coming in. Picking up on what Alan had to say,
:59:38. > :59:48.do you think it is something that would contribute? An irate bomb
:59:48. > :59:53.
:59:53. > :59:59.killed Alan's relatives. -- IRA. It is two big parties that run the
:59:59. > :00:08.show. It is not something they would want. That was a bad time to
:00:08. > :00:11.give it a try in the first place. To talk about practical things is
:00:11. > :00:18.one of the few ways we are going to have any kind of reconciliation
:00:18. > :00:26.here. It will give more victims and bereaved people a voice, what could
:00:26. > :00:30.be wrong? Asking you about looking ahead, there is the funeral of
:00:30. > :00:34.Margaret Thatcher. Is that likely to continue to dominate the
:00:35. > :00:44.political discussions? Her I think it will dominate the agenda with
:00:45. > :00:45.