:00:38. > :00:41.It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics.
:00:42. > :00:45.Theresa May unveils plans to build many more affordable homes
:00:46. > :00:48.in England, but with no price tag, timetable or building targets -
:00:49. > :00:55.Labour takes aim at the City with what it calls a Robin Hood Tax
:00:56. > :00:56.to fund public services, but will traders just
:00:57. > :01:00.Don't look at the polls - Jeremy Corbyn, at least,
:01:01. > :01:03.insists he can win this election - so which way will
:01:04. > :01:18.And coming up here: group in Leeds.
:01:19. > :01:19.and here, what the parties are saying about tackling the air
:01:20. > :01:26.pollution problem in London. And coming up here:
:01:27. > :01:30.selected focus group of political pundits -
:01:31. > :01:31.they're not so much Can the Alliance Party
:01:32. > :01:32.translate its success undecided as clueless -
:01:33. > :01:34.Tom Newton Dunn, Isabel Oakeshott So, we've got two new
:01:35. > :01:43.policies this morning. Labour say they will introduce
:01:44. > :01:45.a financial transaction tax if they win the general election
:01:46. > :01:48.and what they're calling "the biggest crackdown on tax
:01:49. > :01:50.avoidance in the country's history". The Conservatives say they'll work
:01:51. > :01:52.with local authorities in England to build council houses
:01:53. > :01:55.with the right to buy. Theresa May says the policy
:01:56. > :01:57."will help thousands of people get on the first rung
:01:58. > :02:10.of the housing ladder". Steve, what do you make of them? I
:02:11. > :02:14.have been conditioned after doing tax and spend debates in
:02:15. > :02:18.pre-election periods for many decades to treat policy is not as
:02:19. > :02:22.literal but as arguments. In other words if you look back to 2015 the
:02:23. > :02:27.Tory plan to wipe out the deficit was never going to happen and yet it
:02:28. > :02:31.framed and large event. In that sense the Robin Hood tax is a
:02:32. > :02:36.sensible move for Labour to make at this point because it is part of a
:02:37. > :02:39.narrative of reconfiguring taxation to be fair. Treating it as an
:02:40. > :02:46.argument rather than something that would happen in day one of Labour
:02:47. > :02:49.government is sensible. In terms of building houses Theresa May said
:02:50. > :02:52.right from the beginning when she was in Number Ten that there is a
:02:53. > :02:56.housing deficit in this country rather than the economic deficit
:02:57. > :03:01.George Osborne was focusing on, and this is an example of trying to get
:03:02. > :03:05.house-building going. It seems entirely sensible, not sure how it
:03:06. > :03:10.works with right to buy but again as framing of a 90 minute it makes
:03:11. > :03:18.sense. I disagree with Steve on one front which is how sensible Theresa
:03:19. > :03:22.May's policy is on the housing announcement. I think more broadly
:03:23. > :03:25.these two announcements have something in common which is that
:03:26. > :03:32.over the next 24 hours both will probably unravel in different ways.
:03:33. > :03:36.Ye of little faith! The Mayor of London has already said he doesn't
:03:37. > :03:42.agree with this, and when people see the actual impact of what looks like
:03:43. > :03:47.a populist tax will very potentially affect people's pensions, it might
:03:48. > :03:51.become a lot less popular. On the Tory housing plans, I think it is
:03:52. > :03:56.difficult to imagine how they are going to implement this huge, what
:03:57. > :04:01.looks like a huge land and property grab. Through compulsory purchase
:04:02. > :04:05.orders, which are not a simple instrument. They say they will
:04:06. > :04:09.change the law but really the idea of paying people below the market
:04:10. > :04:14.value for their assets is not something I can see sitting easily
:04:15. > :04:21.with Tory backbenchers or the Tories in the House of Lords. Tom. Both
:04:22. > :04:25.would appear superficially to be appealing to traditional left and
:04:26. > :04:32.traditional right bases. What is more Tory than right to buy, then
:04:33. > :04:39.councils sell on these houses, and Labour slapping a massive tax on the
:04:40. > :04:42.city. The Tories' plan, I would say look a bit deeper and all of the
:04:43. > :04:47.Tory narrative from the last six years which hasn't worked well is
:04:48. > :04:51.talking about the private sector increasing supply in the market. Now
:04:52. > :04:59.Mrs May is talking about the role for the state after all so this is
:05:00. > :05:03.the shift creeping in. On the Labour transaction tax, one of the most
:05:04. > :05:10.interesting things I heard in days was from Paul Mason, former BBC
:05:11. > :05:13.correspondent, now a cog in Easter extreme. On Newsnight he said don't
:05:14. > :05:18.worry about whether the Labour manifesto will add up, I'm promising
:05:19. > :05:25.it will, the bigger Tory attack line should be what on earth will be the
:05:26. > :05:30.macroeconomic effect of taking so much tax out of the system. Very
:05:31. > :05:33.well, we shall see. At least we have some policies to talk about.
:05:34. > :05:35.Now, on Tuesday Labour will launch its manifesto.
:05:36. > :05:38.But we've already got a pretty good idea of what's in it -
:05:39. > :05:40.that's because most of its contents were leaked to the media
:05:41. > :05:49.Labour has a variety of spending pledges including an extra
:05:50. > :05:52.?6 billion a year for the NHS, an additional ?8 billion for social
:05:53. > :05:54.care over the lifetime of the next parliament,
:05:55. > :05:56.as well as a ?250 billion in infrastructure over
:05:57. > :06:03.The party will support the renewal of the Trident submarine system,
:06:04. > :06:05.although any Prime Minister should be extremely cautious
:06:06. > :06:08.about its use, and the party will hold a strategic defence
:06:09. > :06:11.and security review immediately after the election.
:06:12. > :06:13.In terms of immigration, Labour will seek "reasonable
:06:14. > :06:15.management of migration", but it will not make "false
:06:16. > :06:22.Elsewhere, university tuition fees will be abolished,
:06:23. > :06:24.and the public sector pay cap, which limits pay rises
:06:25. > :06:28.for public sector workers to 1%, will be scrapped.
:06:29. > :06:31.The party also aims to renationalise the railways, the Royal Mail
:06:32. > :06:38.and the National Grid, as well as creating at least one
:06:39. > :06:43.A senior Labour backbencher described it to the Sunday Politics
:06:44. > :06:46.as a manifesto for a leadership who don't "give a toss
:06:47. > :06:48.about the wider public", and several other Labour candidates
:06:49. > :06:50.told us they thought it had been deliberately
:06:51. > :06:54.leaked by the leadership, with one suggesting
:06:55. > :06:56.the leak was intended to "bounce the National Executive"
:06:57. > :06:59.And we're joined now from Salford by the Shadow Business Secretary,
:07:00. > :07:08.Welcome to the programme. The draft manifesto proposed to renationalise
:07:09. > :07:12.the number of industry. You will wait for the franchises to run out
:07:13. > :07:17.rather than buy them out at the moment so can you confirm the
:07:18. > :07:21.railways will not be wholly nationalised until 2030, after three
:07:22. > :07:27.Labour governments, and Jeremy Corbyn will be 80? I'm not going to
:07:28. > :07:34.comment on leaks, you will just have to be patient and wait to see what
:07:35. > :07:38.is in our manifesto. But you have already announced you will
:07:39. > :07:43.nationalise the railways, so tell me about it. We have discussed taking
:07:44. > :07:47.the franchises into public ownership as they expire, however the detail
:07:48. > :07:52.will be set out in the manifesto so I'm not prepared to go into detail
:07:53. > :07:56.until that policy is formally laid out on Tuesday. That doesn't sound
:07:57. > :08:03.very hopeful but let's carry on. You will also nationalise the National
:08:04. > :08:08.Grid, it has a market capitalisation of ?40 billion, why do you want to
:08:09. > :08:13.nationalise that? Again, I'm not going to speculate on leaks, you
:08:14. > :08:19.will just have to be patient. But you said you will nationalise the
:08:20. > :08:23.National Grid so tell's Y. The leaks have suggested but you will just
:08:24. > :08:27.have to wait and see what the final manifesto states on that one. So is
:08:28. > :08:32.it a waste of time me asking you how you will pay for something that
:08:33. > :08:38.costs 40 billion? Be patient, just couple of days to go, but what I
:08:39. > :08:42.would say is there is growing pressure from the public to reform
:08:43. > :08:45.the utilities sector. The Competition and Markets Authority
:08:46. > :08:51.stated in 2015 that bill payers were paying over till debt -- ?2 billion
:08:52. > :08:57.in excess of what they should be paying so there is a clear need for
:08:58. > :09:01.reform. The bills we get are from the energy companies, you are not
:09:02. > :09:04.going to nationalise them, you are going to nationalise the
:09:05. > :09:09.distribution company and I wondered what is the case for nationalising
:09:10. > :09:14.the distribution company? As I said, our full plans will be set out on
:09:15. > :09:17.Tuesday. In relation to the big six energy companies, we know in recent
:09:18. > :09:25.years they have been overcharging customers... There's no point in
:09:26. > :09:31.answering questions I am not asking. I am asking what is the case for
:09:32. > :09:34.nationalising the National Grid? There is a case for reforming the
:09:35. > :09:39.energy sector as a whole and that looks at the activities of the big
:09:40. > :09:44.six companies and it will look at other aspects too. You will have to
:09:45. > :09:50.be patient and wait until Tuesday. What about the Royal Mail? Again,
:09:51. > :09:55.you will have to wait until Tuesday. Why can't you just be honest with
:09:56. > :10:02.the British voter? We know you are going to do this and you have a duty
:10:03. > :10:08.to explain. I'm not even arguing whether it is right or wrong. The
:10:09. > :10:12.Royal Mail was sold off and we know it was sold under value and British
:10:13. > :10:16.taxpayers have a reason to feel aggrieved about that. There is a
:10:17. > :10:19.long-term strategy that would ensure the Royal Mail was classified as a
:10:20. > :10:25.key piece of infrastructure but the details of that will be set out in
:10:26. > :10:28.our manifesto because we want to ensure businesses and households
:10:29. > :10:33.ensure the best quality of service when it comes to their postal
:10:34. > :10:38.providers. You plan to borrow an extra 25 billion per year, John
:10:39. > :10:42.McDonnell has already announced this, on public investment, on top
:10:43. > :10:48.of the around 50 billion already being planned for investment. You
:10:49. > :10:55.will borrow it all so that means, if you can confirm, that many years
:10:56. > :11:02.after the crash by 2021, Labour government would still be borrowing
:11:03. > :11:08.75 billion a year. Is that correct? We have set out ?250 billion of
:11:09. > :11:12.capital investment, and ?250 billion for a national investment bank. Our
:11:13. > :11:16.financial and fiscal rules dictate we will leave the Government in a
:11:17. > :11:19.state of less debt than we found it at the start of the parliament so we
:11:20. > :11:26.won't increase the national debt at the end of our Parliamentary term.
:11:27. > :11:30.How can you do that if by 2021 you will still be borrowing around 75
:11:31. > :11:37.billion a year, which is more than we borrow at the moment? The 500
:11:38. > :11:41.billion figure is set out over a period of ten years, it's a figure
:11:42. > :11:44.that has been suggested by Peter Helm from Oxford University as a
:11:45. > :11:48.figure that is necessary to bring us in line with other industrial
:11:49. > :11:57.competitors. Similar figures have been suggested by groups such as the
:11:58. > :12:00.CBI. By the way I have not included all 500 billion, just the 250
:12:01. > :12:05.billion on public spending, not the extra money. You talk about the
:12:06. > :12:10.fiscal rules. The draft manifesto said you will leave debt as a
:12:11. > :12:17.proportion of trend GDP law at the end of each parliament, you have
:12:18. > :12:21.just said a version of that. What is trend GDP? In clear terms we will
:12:22. > :12:25.ensure the debt we acquire will be reduced by the end of the
:12:26. > :12:32.parliament. We won't leave the Government finances in a worse state
:12:33. > :12:36.than we found them. OK, but what is trend GDP? Our rule is we will
:12:37. > :12:41.ensure public sector net debt is less than we found it when we came
:12:42. > :12:49.to power in Government on June the 8th. But that is not what your draft
:12:50. > :12:52.manifesto says. I'm not going to comment on leaks, you are just going
:12:53. > :12:57.to have to wait until Tuesday to look at the fine detail and perhaps
:12:58. > :13:01.we will have another chat then. You have published your plans for
:13:02. > :13:05.corporation tax and you will increase it by a third and your
:13:06. > :13:10.predictions assumed that will get an extra 20 billion a year by the end
:13:11. > :13:14.of the parliament. But that assumes the companies don't change their
:13:15. > :13:19.behaviour, that they move money around, they leave the country or
:13:20. > :13:24.they generate smaller profits. Is that realistic? You are right to
:13:25. > :13:28.make that point and you will see when we set out our policies and
:13:29. > :13:34.costings in the manifesto that we haven't spent all of the tax take.
:13:35. > :13:36.We have allowed for different differentials and potential changes
:13:37. > :13:41.in market activity because that would be approved and direction to
:13:42. > :13:49.take. But corporation tax is allowed to be cut in France and the United
:13:50. > :13:52.States, it's only 12.5% in Dublin. Many companies based in Britain are
:13:53. > :13:57.already wondering whether they should relocate because of Brexit,
:13:58. > :14:02.if you increase this tax by a third couldn't that clinch it for a number
:14:03. > :14:07.of them? No, we will still be one of the lowest corporation tax rate in
:14:08. > :14:12.the G7. Let's look at what's important for business. Cutting
:14:13. > :14:16.corporation tax in itself doesn't improve productivity, or business
:14:17. > :14:19.investment and there's no suggestion cutting corporation tax in recent
:14:20. > :14:25.years has achieved that. Businesses need an investment in tools in
:14:26. > :14:30.things they need to thrive and prosper, they also need to reduce
:14:31. > :14:35.the burden at the lower end of the tax scale, before we get to the
:14:36. > :14:42.Prophet stage. One key example is business rates. We have made the
:14:43. > :14:45.proposal to government to in -- exclude machinery so businesses can
:14:46. > :14:52.invest and grow operations in the future but the Government refused.
:14:53. > :15:02.Corporation tax has been cut since 2010. When it was 28% it brought in
:15:03. > :15:09.?43 billion a year. Now it is down to 20%, it brought in ?55 billion a
:15:10. > :15:15.year. By cutting it in the last year, it brought in 21% more, so
:15:16. > :15:19.what is the problem? It might have brought in more money, but has it
:15:20. > :15:25.increased business investment in the long term. It is not just about
:15:26. > :15:29.cutting corporation tax, but it is on the ability of businesses to
:15:30. > :15:35.thrive and prosper. Business investment in the UK is below are
:15:36. > :15:42.industrial competitors. Wages are stagnating which doesn't indicate
:15:43. > :15:46.businesses are not doing well. Let me get it right, you are arguing if
:15:47. > :15:53.we increase business tax by a third, that will increase investment? I am
:15:54. > :16:01.not saying that. You just did. Know I didn't, I said reducing business
:16:02. > :16:04.tax isn't enough, you have to invest in the things businesses need to
:16:05. > :16:16.thrive and prosper. You have also got to lessen the burden on
:16:17. > :16:21.business. You have announced a financial transaction tax. Your own
:16:22. > :16:26.labour Mayor of London said he has vowed to fight it. He said I do not
:16:27. > :16:31.want a unilateral tax on business in our city, so why are you proceeding
:16:32. > :16:35.with it? This isn't a new initiative, there is a growing
:16:36. > :16:39.global pressure to make sure we have fairness in the financial sector.
:16:40. > :16:45.Ordinary British people are paying for our banking crisis they didn't
:16:46. > :16:50.cause. Another important point, stamp duty reserve tax was brought
:16:51. > :16:54.in in the 1600 and there have been little reforms. The sector has
:16:55. > :16:59.changed and we have do provide changes to the system for that
:17:00. > :17:04.change. High-frequency trading where we have a state of affairs where a
:17:05. > :17:08.lot of shares are traded on computers within milliseconds. We
:17:09. > :17:15.need a tax system that keeps up with that. What happens if they move the
:17:16. > :17:20.computers to another country? Emily Thornaby said this morning, other
:17:21. > :17:23.countries had already introduced a financial transaction tax, what
:17:24. > :17:31.other countries have done that? There are ten countries looking at
:17:32. > :17:38.introducing a transaction tax. Which ones have done it so far? They will
:17:39. > :17:43.be later announcing a final package, going through the finer detail at
:17:44. > :17:47.the moment. But the European Commission tried to get this done in
:17:48. > :17:52.2011 and it still hasn't happened in any of these countries. But you are
:17:53. > :17:57.going to go ahead unilaterally and risk these businesses, which
:17:58. > :18:01.generate a lot of money, moving to other jurisdictions. There is not a
:18:02. > :18:12.significant risk of that happening. The stamp duty reserve tax is levied
:18:13. > :18:17.at either where the person or company is domiciled or where the
:18:18. > :18:22.instrument is issued rather than worth the transaction takes place.
:18:23. > :18:25.This tax in itself is not enough to make people leave this country in
:18:26. > :18:30.terms of financial services because there is more to keep these
:18:31. > :18:34.businesses here in terms of the investment we are making, the
:18:35. > :18:38.economy that Labour will build, in terms of productivity improvement we
:18:39. > :18:42.will see. Thank you very much, Rebecca Long-Bailey.
:18:43. > :18:48.And listening to that was the Home Office Minister, Brandon Lewis.
:18:49. > :18:54.Over the years, you have got corporation tax by 20%, it is lower
:18:55. > :19:01.than international standards, so why are so many global companies who
:19:02. > :19:06.make money out of Great Britain, still not paying 20%? It is one of
:19:07. > :19:09.the problems with the point Labour were making and Rebecca could not
:19:10. > :19:15.answer, these companies can move around the world. One of the
:19:16. > :19:19.important things is having a low tax economy but these businesses, it
:19:20. > :19:24.encourages them to come at a rate they are prepared to pay. People may
:19:25. > :19:30.say they are right, if they were paying 19, 20% incorporation tax.
:19:31. > :19:39.But they are not. Google runs a multi-million pound corporation and
:19:40. > :19:42.did not pay anywhere near 20%. There are companies that are trading
:19:43. > :19:51.internationally and that is why we have to get this work done with our
:19:52. > :19:55.partners around the world. Has there been an improvement? It is more than
:19:56. > :19:59.they were paying before. Whether it is Google or any other company,
:20:00. > :20:05.alongside them being here, apart from the tax they pay, it is the
:20:06. > :20:09.people they employ. The deal was, if you cut the business tax, the
:20:10. > :20:14.corporation tax on profits, we would get more companies coming here and
:20:15. > :20:18.more companies paying their tax. It seems it doesn't matter how low, a
:20:19. > :20:25.number of companies just pay a derisory amount and you haven't been
:20:26. > :20:27.able to change that. As you outlined, the income taken from the
:20:28. > :20:35.changing corporation tax has gone up. That is from established British
:20:36. > :20:38.companies, not from these international companies. It is
:20:39. > :20:42.because more companies are coming here and paying tax. That is a good
:20:43. > :20:48.thing. There is always more to do and that is why we want to crack
:20:49. > :20:52.down. In the last few weeks in the Finnish Parliament, Labour refused
:20:53. > :20:58.to put to another ?8.7 billion of tax take we could have got by
:20:59. > :21:03.cracking down further. You claim to have made great progress on cracking
:21:04. > :21:08.down on people and companies to pay the tax they should. But the tax gap
:21:09. > :21:14.is the difference between what HMRC takes in and what it should take in.
:21:15. > :21:20.It has barely moved in five years, so where is the progress? He have
:21:21. > :21:24.brought in 150 billion more where we have cracked down on those tax
:21:25. > :21:34.schemes. The gap is still the same as it was five years ago. It's gone
:21:35. > :21:36.from 6.8, 26.5. It has gone down. The Prime Minister and the
:21:37. > :21:41.Chancellor said they want to continue work on to get more money
:21:42. > :21:47.on these companies while still having a competitive rate to
:21:48. > :21:52.encourage these companies. While big business and the wealthy continue to
:21:53. > :21:55.prosper, the Office for Budget Responsibility tell us those on
:21:56. > :22:01.average earnings in this country will be earning less in real terms
:22:02. > :22:07.by 2021 than they did in 2008. How can that be fair? I don't see it
:22:08. > :22:11.that way. I haven't seen the figures you have got. What I can say to you,
:22:12. > :22:17.Andrew, we have made sure the minimum wage has gone up, the actual
:22:18. > :22:26.income tax people pay has gone down. So in their pocket, real terms,
:22:27. > :22:28.people have more money. You are the self-styled party of work. We keep
:22:29. > :22:32.emphasising work. Under your government you can work for 13 years
:22:33. > :22:39.and still not earn any more at the end of it, and you did at the start.
:22:40. > :22:44.Where is the reward for effort in that? I have not seen those figures.
:22:45. > :22:50.There are 2.8 million more people, more jobs in economy than there was.
:22:51. > :22:54.1000 jobs every day and people are working and developing through their
:22:55. > :22:58.careers. This is what I thought was odd in what Rebecca was saying,
:22:59. > :23:03.investing in people is what the apprenticeship levy is about,
:23:04. > :23:08.companies are investing their works force to take more opportunities
:23:09. > :23:11.that there. We are talking about fairness, politicians talk about
:23:12. > :23:16.hard-working people and we know the average earnings are no higher than
:23:17. > :23:21.they were in 2008. We know the pay and bonuses of senior executives
:23:22. > :23:24.have continued to grow and the Institute for Fiscal Studies has
:23:25. > :23:30.shown 3 million of the poorest households will lose an average of
:23:31. > :23:36.?2500 a year in the next Parliament, benefits frozen, further sanctions
:23:37. > :23:40.kick in. 3 million of the poorest losing 2500. Under the Tories, one
:23:41. > :23:46.law for the rich and another for the poor. It is quite wrong. First of
:23:47. > :23:51.all, we have got to be fair to the taxpayer who is funding the welfare
:23:52. > :23:57.and benefit system. Which is why the welfare was right. Get more people
:23:58. > :24:04.in work and then it is important to get more people upscaling. As that
:24:05. > :24:09.allowance rises, people have more of the money they earn in their pocket
:24:10. > :24:15.to be able to use in the economy. People will be worse off. 2500,
:24:16. > :24:21.among the poorest already. They will have more money in their pocket as
:24:22. > :24:27.we increase the allowance before people pay tax. We have seen
:24:28. > :24:31.millions of people coming out of tax altogether. The reason I ask these
:24:32. > :24:36.questions, you and the Prime Minister go on and on about the just
:24:37. > :24:40.about managing classes. I am talking about the just about managing and
:24:41. > :24:44.below that. It is all talk, you haven't done anything for them. We
:24:45. > :24:49.have made sure they have an increasing minimum wage, it has gone
:24:50. > :24:55.up more under us than any other previous government. Their wages
:24:56. > :25:00.will be still lower in real terms. Let me come on to this plan for
:25:01. > :25:05.housing. We have announced a new plan to increase affordable housing,
:25:06. > :25:09.social housing, some council housing and social housing built by the
:25:10. > :25:13.associations. How much money is behind this? It is part of the 1.4
:25:14. > :25:21.billion announced in the Autumn Statement. How many homes will you
:25:22. > :25:24.get for 1.4 billion? That depends on the negotiations with local
:25:25. > :25:31.authorities. It is local authorities, who know the area best.
:25:32. > :25:35.I will not put a number on that. 1.4 billion, if you price the house at
:25:36. > :25:41.100,000, which is very low, particularly for the South, back at
:25:42. > :25:46.you 14,000 new homes. That is it. What we have seen before, how the
:25:47. > :25:50.local government can leveraged to build thousands more homes. That is
:25:51. > :25:54.what we want to see across the country. It is not just about the
:25:55. > :25:57.money, for a lot of local authorities it is about the
:25:58. > :26:03.expertise and knowledge on how to do this. That is why support from the
:26:04. > :26:09.housing communities minister will help. What is the timescale, how
:26:10. > :26:14.many more affordable homes will be built? I will not put a number on
:26:15. > :26:19.it. You announced it today, so you cannot tell me how many more or what
:26:20. > :26:23.the target is? It is a matter of working with the local authorities
:26:24. > :26:26.who know what their local needs are, what land they have got available.
:26:27. > :26:31.What we saw through the local elections with the Metro mayors,
:26:32. > :26:34.they want to deliver in their areas, whether it is the West of England,
:26:35. > :26:39.the north-east, Liverpool, Manchester and we want to work with
:26:40. > :26:43.them. You have said variations of this for the past seven years and I
:26:44. > :26:49.want some credibility. When you cannot tell us how much money, what
:26:50. > :26:52.the target and timescale is, and this government, under which
:26:53. > :26:58.affordable house building has fallen to a 24 year low. 1.2 million
:26:59. > :27:04.families are on waiting lists for social housing to rent. That is your
:27:05. > :27:08.record. Why should we believe a word you say? This is different to what
:27:09. > :27:13.we have been doing over the last two years. We want to develop and have a
:27:14. > :27:20.strong and stable economy that can sustain that 1.4 billion homes. This
:27:21. > :27:26.is important. In 2010, we inherited the lowest level of house building,
:27:27. > :27:31.75,000 new homes. That is about 189,000 over the last four years.
:27:32. > :27:35.That is a big step forward after the crash, getting people back into the
:27:36. > :27:46.industry. More first-time buyers onto the market. Final question, in
:27:47. > :27:51.2010, 2011, your first year in government, there were 60,000
:27:52. > :27:59.affordable homes built. May not be enough, but last day it was 30 2000.
:28:00. > :28:06.So why should we trust anything you say about this? On housing, we have
:28:07. > :28:12.delivered. We have delivered more social housing. Double what Labour
:28:13. > :28:16.did in 13 years, in just five years. This is what this policy is about,
:28:17. > :28:17.working with local authorities to deliver more homes to people in
:28:18. > :28:21.their local areas. Thank you. Now, they have a deficit
:28:22. > :28:24.of between 15 and 20% in the polls, but Jeremy Corbyn and those
:28:25. > :28:27.around him insist Labour can win. If the polls are right they've got
:28:28. > :28:30.three and half weeks to change voters' minds and persuade those
:28:31. > :28:32.fabled undecided voters We enlisted the polling organisation
:28:33. > :28:37.YouGov to help us find out how the performance of party leaders
:28:38. > :28:39.will affect behaviour Leeds, a city of three quarters
:28:40. > :28:49.of a million people, eight Parliamentary seats and home
:28:50. > :28:53.to our very own focus group. Our panel was recruited
:28:54. > :28:56.from a variety of backgrounds and the majority say they haven't
:28:57. > :29:00.decided who to vote for yet. Watching behind the glass,
:29:01. > :29:02.two experts on different sides Giles Cunningham, who headed up
:29:03. > :29:09.political press at Downing Street under David Cameron
:29:10. > :29:16.and Aaron Bastani, Corbin supporter, under David Cameron
:29:17. > :29:18.and Aaron Bastani, Corbyn supporter, I think Theresa May sees herself
:29:19. > :29:22.as a pound shop Thatcher. Milliband's policies but when it
:29:23. > :29:42.came about who you want,
:29:43. > :29:46.if you wake up on maybe a 2015, We found in a couple of focus
:29:47. > :29:50.groups, people saying we'd be quite relieved,
:29:51. > :29:52.even though some of those same people have been saying we quite
:29:53. > :29:54.like the Labour policies. I think the fact that Corbyn's
:29:55. > :29:59.going so hard on his values, this is a really progressive
:30:00. > :30:01.manifesto, they live But I think that's a new challenge,
:30:02. > :30:05.that wasn't there in 2015. Is there anyone here that
:30:06. > :30:07.you don't recognise? After a little warm up,
:30:08. > :30:09.the first exercise, recognising I think it's nice to have a strong
:30:10. > :30:16.woman in politics, I do. But I've got to say,
:30:17. > :30:18.when she comes on the news, I kind of do think,
:30:19. > :30:21.here we go again. Tell me about Tim Farron, what
:30:22. > :30:23.are your impressions of Tim Farron? It isn't going to do anything,
:30:24. > :30:28.it isn't going to change anything. You'll be surprised to hear it's
:30:29. > :30:36.actually the Greens. Strong and stable leadership
:30:37. > :30:49.in the national interest. Yes, Team May, it's
:30:50. > :30:54.the British equivalent of make What do we think about this one
:30:55. > :31:04.for the many and not the few? It's not quite as bad
:31:05. > :31:06.as strong and stable, but it will probably get
:31:07. > :31:08.on our nerves after a while. We must seize that chance today
:31:09. > :31:19.and every day until June the 8th. But that's not quite my
:31:20. > :31:26.question, my question is, if you are Prime Minister,
:31:27. > :31:29.we will leave, come hell or high water, whatever is on the table
:31:30. > :31:33.at the end of the negotiations? If we win the election,
:31:34. > :31:35.we'll get a good deal with Europe. Assertive and in control
:31:36. > :31:37.and he felt comfortable But the second one, I thought
:31:38. > :31:42.he was very hesitant. I thought he was kind of,
:31:43. > :31:51.hovering around, skirting around and that's the second
:31:52. > :31:54.time I've seen a similar interview with the question
:31:55. > :31:56.being asked regarding Brexit. I don't think I'd have
:31:57. > :31:58.any confidence with him You think you are going up
:31:59. > :32:01.against some quite strong people, how are you going to stand
:32:02. > :32:04.up for us? When you are in negotiations,
:32:05. > :32:08.you need to be tough. And actually is right
:32:09. > :32:10.to be tough sometimes, particularly when you are doing
:32:11. > :32:12.something for the country. There's a reason for talking
:32:13. > :32:15.about strong and stable leadership. It's about the future
:32:16. > :32:17.of the country, it's It's just that people kind of listen
:32:18. > :32:22.to that kind of thing and think Both on The One Show
:32:23. > :32:27.and in the news. She attracts the public better
:32:28. > :32:33.than what Corbyn does. She didn't answer the question
:32:34. > :32:36.in a more articular way than Corbyn Imagine that Theresa
:32:37. > :32:42.May is an animal. So, in your minds,
:32:43. > :32:45.what animal is coming to mind I've done a Pekinese because I think
:32:46. > :32:59.she's all bark and no bite. Alpaca because she's
:33:00. > :33:06.superior looking and woolly I don't think his policies
:33:07. > :33:21.are for the modern, real world. A mouse because they are weak
:33:22. > :33:25.and they can be easily bullied, but also they can catch
:33:26. > :33:27.you by surprise if you're What do you take away
:33:28. > :33:35.from what you saw then, and what message would you send back
:33:36. > :33:38.to the Tories now? I think what came over is people see
:33:39. > :33:41.Theresa May as a strong politician, not everyone likes her,
:33:42. > :33:43.but you don't need to be liked to be elected,
:33:44. > :33:46.because ultimately it's about who do you trust with your future
:33:47. > :33:48.and your security. I think what I also take out
:33:49. > :33:51.of that focus group, was it was a group of floating
:33:52. > :33:54.voters, there was no huge appetite for the Lib Dems and there was no
:33:55. > :33:56.huge appetite for Ukip. So my messaged back to CCHQ
:33:57. > :33:59.would be stick to the plan. I thought the response
:34:00. > :34:03.to the manifesto was excellent. It's clear that people aren't
:34:04. > :34:05.particularly keen on Theresa May, There are some associations with her
:34:06. > :34:10.about strength and stability, which is exactly what the Tory party
:34:11. > :34:13.want of course, but they are not positive and nobody thinks
:34:14. > :34:15.that she has a vision So, what I'd say the Jeremy Corbyn,
:34:16. > :34:22.what I'd say to the Labour Party is, they need to really emphasise
:34:23. > :34:24.the manifesto in Jeremy Corbyn himself has to perform
:34:25. > :34:30.out of his skin and I think he has to reemphasise those
:34:31. > :34:33.characteristics which may be have come to the fore may be
:34:34. > :34:36.over the last 12 months, resilience, strength and the fact
:34:37. > :34:38.that he's come this far, why not take that final step and go
:34:39. > :34:41.into ten Downing Street? We're joined now by the American
:34:42. > :34:48.political consultant For the sake of this discussion,
:34:49. > :34:56.assume the polls at the moment are broadly right, is there any hope for
:34:57. > :35:02.Mr Corbyn in the undecided voters? Know, and this is a very serious
:35:03. > :35:05.collection with serious consequences to who wins. Nobody cares whether
:35:06. > :35:09.you can draw and what animal they represent, they want to know where
:35:10. > :35:14.they stand, and I felt that was frivolous. I come to Britain to
:35:15. > :35:19.watch elections because I learned from here. Your elections are more
:35:20. > :35:22.substantial, more serious, more policy and less about personality
:35:23. > :35:28.and that peace was only about personality. That's partly because
:35:29. > :35:37.Mrs May has decided to make this a presidential election. You can see
:35:38. > :35:45.on the posters it is all Team May. I agree with that, and in her language
:35:46. > :35:49.she says not everyone benefits from a Conservative government, I don't
:35:50. > :35:53.see how using anything Republicans have used in the past. In fact her
:35:54. > :35:58.campaign is more of a centrist Democrats but it is a smart strategy
:35:59. > :36:03.because it pushes Corbyn further to the left. Of course you said Hillary
:36:04. > :36:08.Clinton have won. On election night the polling was so bad in America,
:36:09. > :36:14.the exit polls that were done, the BBC told America she had won. No, I
:36:15. > :36:22.was anchoring the programme that night, I ignored your tweet. The BBC
:36:23. > :36:27.had the same numbers. Yes, but we did not say she had won, I can
:36:28. > :36:32.assure you of that. Because of people like you we thought she had
:36:33. > :36:39.but we didn't broadcast it. That was a smart approach. My point is other
:36:40. > :36:45.than teasing you, maybe there is hope for Jeremy Corbyn. I think you
:36:46. > :36:50.will have one of the lowest turnout in modern history and I think Labour
:36:51. > :36:53.will fall to one of the lowest percentages, not percentage of
:36:54. > :36:57.number of seats they have had, and this will be a matter of
:36:58. > :37:03.soul-searching for both political parties. What you do with a sizeable
:37:04. > :37:06.majority, and she has a responsibility to tell the British
:37:07. > :37:12.people exactly what happens as she moves forward. He and Labour will
:37:13. > :37:17.have to take a look at whether they still represent a significant slice
:37:18. > :37:21.of the British population. Do you see a realignment in British
:37:22. > :37:25.politics taking place? I see a crumbling of the left and yet there
:37:26. > :37:29.is still a significant percentage of the British population that once
:37:30. > :37:38.someone who is centre-left. And they like a lot of Mr Corbyn's policies.
:37:39. > :37:41.I'm listening to Michael foot. I went to school here in the 1980s and
:37:42. > :37:44.I feel like I'm watching the Labour Party of 35 years ago, in a
:37:45. > :37:51.population that wants to focus on the future, not the past. Thank you.
:37:52. > :37:53.It's just gone 11.35, you're watching the Sunday Politics.
:37:54. > :37:55.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now
:37:56. > :38:05.Hello and welcome to Sunday Politics in Northern Ireland.
:38:06. > :38:08.The Prime Minister has been criticised for not paying enough
:38:09. > :38:09.attention to Northern Ireland during this Brexit-inspired
:38:10. > :38:24.Well, I have been personally engaged. I have contact with both
:38:25. > :38:26.Michelle and Arlene. We'll be hearing more
:38:27. > :38:29.from Theresa May, plus our party leader coverage continues
:38:30. > :38:31.with Naomi Long of Alliance. Where does her party fit
:38:32. > :38:33.into the local picture where orange and green battle-lines have been
:38:34. > :38:35.reinforced with positions And with their thoughts on that
:38:36. > :38:39.and more, my guests of the day are Chris Donnelly and Felicity
:38:40. > :38:42.Huston. The Prime Minister has
:38:43. > :38:45.defended her record of involvement in the on-going Stormont stand-off,
:38:46. > :38:47.and says she's clear about the Brexit deal she wants
:38:48. > :38:49.for Northern Ireland. Theresa May made the comments
:38:50. > :38:52.during a visit to the Balmoral show yesterday, the first time she's come
:38:53. > :38:55.to Northern Ireland since last July. Her decision not to come
:38:56. > :38:57.here in March before triggering Article 50,
:38:58. > :38:58.despite visiting other parts She was asked how she believes
:38:59. > :39:03.the question of the border with the Republic of Ireland
:39:04. > :39:24.is going to be resolved. I am very clear that we want to see
:39:25. > :39:31.no return to the borders of the past, no hard border, and I am clear
:39:32. > :39:34.that we need to see as seamless and frictionless a border as possible.
:39:35. > :39:36.Today I see the importance of the agriculture food industry in
:39:37. > :39:41.Northern Ireland and the world that is done between Northern Ireland and
:39:42. > :39:47.the republic. There is goodwill on all sides. I put it in my Article 50
:39:48. > :39:51.letter, they have put it in their guidelines, that we want to ensure
:39:52. > :39:54.that we have a resolution of this issue between Northern Ireland and
:39:55. > :39:58.the Republic of Ireland that will be good for both Northern Ireland and
:39:59. > :40:02.the Republic and the whole of the United Kingdom. There is some
:40:03. > :40:07.criticism that you have been two hands off and given that there is a
:40:08. > :40:10.political vacuum at Stormont and Northern Ireland find itself at the
:40:11. > :40:15.forefront of Brexit that you should be more personally engaged. Will you
:40:16. > :40:20.be in the future? I have been personally engaged. I have had
:40:21. > :40:25.contact with both Michelle and Arlene, the leaders of Sinn Fein and
:40:26. > :40:28.the DUP in Northern Ireland in the run-up to Easter when we were
:40:29. > :40:31.particularly looking at the talks and prior to that but what is
:40:32. > :40:37.important if we are going to see what we all want, which is a return
:40:38. > :40:40.to a strong, stable, devolved administration in Northern Ireland
:40:41. > :40:44.is that the parties in Northern Ireland come together and agree,
:40:45. > :40:50.come to an agreement, that can enable that to be re-established. As
:40:51. > :40:53.you know, after the general election, there will be several
:40:54. > :40:58.weeks until the end of June for those parties to come together and
:40:59. > :40:59.to see a resolution. We all want to see devolved administration restored
:41:00. > :41:01.in Northern Ireland. Let's hear from my guests,
:41:02. > :41:10.Chris Donnelly and Felicity Huston. As far as Theresa May 's presence in
:41:11. > :41:15.Northern Ireland at last is concerned, is it a case of better
:41:16. > :41:19.late than never? I am glad to see her here. She is going round the
:41:20. > :41:23.country. She is criticised if she comes and she is criticised if she
:41:24. > :41:27.doesn't come. To be complaining that she is not involved with the talks,
:41:28. > :41:32.we are not supposed to be grown-ups by now who can settle our own
:41:33. > :41:36.devolved issues? I don't know if it would have made any difference if
:41:37. > :41:40.she had come here. People would have shouted and screamed. It looked as
:41:41. > :41:45.if he didn't care about the big issues. I don't know if it was that.
:41:46. > :41:52.I think that there were places that it was more useful for it HER to
:41:53. > :41:56.appear. I wish we would have our own talks and solve our own problems and
:41:57. > :42:01.not expect the British, the Irish and the Americans to come in. I
:42:02. > :42:07.think from Theresa May 's perspective she has more pressing
:42:08. > :42:10.concerns. I think the last Prime Minister was sacked by Brexit and
:42:11. > :42:14.she is well aware that her political legacy will be defined by how she
:42:15. > :42:19.handles these negotiations. The problem with the pitch is that
:42:20. > :42:23.Michelle come to some sort -- Michelle and Arlene can do source of
:42:24. > :42:30.an agreement, they are a central player in those issues, legacy
:42:31. > :42:35.issues, where both James Brokenshire around the West insurer with the
:42:36. > :42:40.Westminster committee have weighed in, that is an important thing that
:42:41. > :42:46.needs to be resolved with the British and the agreement on the
:42:47. > :42:50.language act. That is one of the outstanding areas. I don't think she
:42:51. > :42:52.can afford to stand aloof because we are not really going to get the
:42:53. > :42:54.progress unless the British government are centrally involved.
:42:55. > :42:58.Alliance had its best ever Assembly election result last month
:42:59. > :43:00.increasing its first preference and share of the vote.
:43:01. > :43:02.But a general election is a very different ball game,
:43:03. > :43:04.so can the party translate its recent success into
:43:05. > :43:14.Joining me is party leader, Naomi Long.
:43:15. > :43:24.Well, can you? I believe we can. I think it is not just the view of the
:43:25. > :43:28.party but actually many commentators have recognised that is the case. I
:43:29. > :43:33.think there are real opportunities, not just for us in those seats but
:43:34. > :43:37.also to grow our vote in other seats and to send a very strong message to
:43:38. > :43:40.other parties who have failed to get devolution bag up and running that
:43:41. > :43:46.that is what people want to see as a priority after this election because
:43:47. > :43:50.come the 8th of June, we need to go back into a room together and get
:43:51. > :43:54.devolution restored. It is absolutely crucial for the future of
:43:55. > :43:57.Northern Ireland. We saw the Prime Minister in Northern Ireland that
:43:58. > :44:01.last during this election campaign, talking about some of the issues
:44:02. > :44:06.that are thrown up by the Brexit debate. In the absence of a devolved
:44:07. > :44:10.setup, who do you think can best serve the interest of Northern
:44:11. > :44:15.Ireland on the issue of Brexit? Is it Theresa May and the UK Government
:44:16. > :44:22.orders the Taoiseach in Northern Ireland would grow Ireland have a
:44:23. > :44:27.role? I have a role. She is going to be leading the negotiations from the
:44:28. > :44:32.UK said -- I think they both have a role. I have to say, to date,
:44:33. > :44:35.without much success in terms of charming the people that she needs
:44:36. > :44:38.to work with but how she handles that will be critical to Northern
:44:39. > :44:43.Ireland 's future. I don't believe that is the only person that we need
:44:44. > :44:47.to be dealing with. We need to be speaking to the Taoiseach because
:44:48. > :44:51.they have a role along the border on how we deal with the sensitive
:44:52. > :44:54.issues that affect the peace process and arrangements on an island bases
:44:55. > :44:57.as well as the kind of East-West arrangements that are part of the
:44:58. > :45:03.Good Friday agreement. Both will be involved but there are are also 26
:45:04. > :45:07.other EU states out there who will also have to reach a decision on the
:45:08. > :45:12.future of Northern Ireland and it is important we do not lose sight of
:45:13. > :45:16.them and ensure that they understand the sensitivities for Northern
:45:17. > :45:21.Ireland. London and Dublin both have roles. You told me last October,
:45:22. > :45:25.there is a real opportunity for us to have two voices at the table, one
:45:26. > :45:29.on the inside of Europe and one speaking for us in these
:45:30. > :45:33.negotiations in the British government. Who would choose one
:45:34. > :45:40.voice-over to when things are so crucial? Do you stand by that?
:45:41. > :45:42.Absolutely. It would be madness for us to alienate the voice of the
:45:43. > :45:47.Irish government in this because they will be in the negotiations
:45:48. > :45:51.with 26 other EU states. They have many of the same concerns that we
:45:52. > :45:53.have when it comes to the border and cross-border trade and cooperation
:45:54. > :45:57.and all those other things. It would be insane for us not to find
:45:58. > :46:01.ourselves a way of dealing with them which is why we have been involved
:46:02. > :46:07.in the dialogue on Brexit and we will continue to do that. There
:46:08. > :46:10.could be a Unionist disposition who could be tempted to vote for
:46:11. > :46:15.Alliance who would agree with Jim Nicholson when he says Brussels
:46:16. > :46:18.should keep out of this issue. Northern Ireland can stick up for
:46:19. > :46:22.itself. Northern Ireland cannot stand up for itself because we don't
:46:23. > :46:26.have a voice at the negotiating table saw this negotiation will take
:46:27. > :46:30.place between London and the other 27 states. One of which happens to
:46:31. > :46:36.be Dublin which has a vested interest in seeing a good result for
:46:37. > :46:39.Northern Ireland. I think it is a practical... I think it is quite a
:46:40. > :46:43.significant part of the 26, given that it is going to be directly
:46:44. > :46:47.impacted and it is one of the most pro-European countries in Europe. It
:46:48. > :46:52.will not want to annoy the Irish and drive them out either. I think it
:46:53. > :46:56.would be mad for anyone and I don't think it's about being a Unionist or
:46:57. > :46:58.a nationalist, it is about being pragmatic and practical in response
:46:59. > :47:03.to what I think are practical issues that we are going to have to face.
:47:04. > :47:07.It is interesting you should take that line. The issue for Alliance is
:47:08. > :47:11.your candidates in this election campaign could well become piggy in
:47:12. > :47:17.the middle between pro-Brexit Unionist candidates and Andy Brexit
:47:18. > :47:21.candidates. In a first past the post system, your supporters might choose
:47:22. > :47:24.to support you. We hear this in every election, we are used to
:47:25. > :47:27.hearing that. We're not in the middle. We are leading from the
:47:28. > :47:32.front in terms of what we want to do. Part of the reason people are
:47:33. > :47:35.coming to Alliance is because they are wary of increasingly
:47:36. > :47:38.nationalist, inward looking politics, not just in Northern
:47:39. > :47:41.Ireland but actually globally, in terms of how people are responding
:47:42. > :47:46.to the challenges that we face and I think that what they want to see is
:47:47. > :47:50.a recognition of the importance of interdependence, a recognition of
:47:51. > :47:54.the importance of cooperation and a recognition that regardless of
:47:55. > :47:59.Brexit, our future will continue to be entwined with Europe, whether we
:48:00. > :48:04.like that or not. What we need to do, Mark, is to develop positive
:48:05. > :48:07.relationships with Europe, regardless of Brexit, so that we can
:48:08. > :48:11.continue to function and we can continue to make a success of
:48:12. > :48:15.Northern Ireland. When Arlene Foster says this is about securing Northern
:48:16. > :48:20.Ireland 's place in the union, she is wrong? Of course she is wrong. If
:48:21. > :48:23.it was about that, it would be a referendum on the border. It is not
:48:24. > :48:27.a referendum on the border. It is an election to decide who will
:48:28. > :48:31.represent constituencies best at Westminster and part of that will be
:48:32. > :48:35.about their position with regards to Brexit, part of that will be about
:48:36. > :48:37.their position with regards to social policy and economic policy
:48:38. > :48:42.and part of that will be about the work that they do on the ground and
:48:43. > :48:47.I think the public recognise that. We hear every election now in
:48:48. > :48:49.Northern Ireland as if it is going to make a difference to the border
:48:50. > :48:54.and the border has not moved one inch since 1998, nor will it as a
:48:55. > :48:59.result of this election. What will happen as a result of this election
:49:00. > :49:03.is that we will either have 18 MPs over in Westminster speaking with a
:49:04. > :49:06.common voice in favour of what is best for Northern Ireland or we want
:49:07. > :49:12.and that is a choice that the Northern Ireland Republic PUBLIC are
:49:13. > :49:20.well aware that they need to make. We like to see a second referendum
:49:21. > :49:24.on Brexit? No, I don't want to see a second referendum but I do want to
:49:25. > :49:28.see the outcome of the negotiations put to a referendum because people
:49:29. > :49:32.voted for a principle that we would vote to leave the EU. It was unclear
:49:33. > :49:35.as a result of that campaign which bits we would completely leave.
:49:36. > :49:41.Would leave the customs union, the single market, would we be the
:49:42. > :49:44.Switzerland of Ireland? Would we be like Norway? There were all those
:49:45. > :49:48.debates and they were never answered. I think it is right and
:49:49. > :49:51.proper that having made a decision about the direction that we have to
:49:52. > :49:54.take that we then put the final arrangements to the public so they
:49:55. > :49:58.can decide whether that meets what they actually wanted in terms of
:49:59. > :50:09.their expectations. Just to come back to Northern Ireland politics.
:50:10. > :50:14.Is devolution your number one priority, getting the message
:50:15. > :50:17.across? First of all we want to stand and say that we are wanting
:50:18. > :50:22.that second referendum when it comes to the issue of the deal that we get
:50:23. > :50:27.in Northern Ireland. We want to send strong voices to Westminster to make
:50:28. > :50:30.it clear that we do need a special deal for Northern Ireland and the
:50:31. > :50:34.second issue was about devolution and sending a strong message to the
:50:35. > :50:37.parties that had been blocking the restoration of devolution that we
:50:38. > :50:41.want to see that restored and people can vote for the same thing they
:50:42. > :50:45.voted for last time, they can give parties the same mandate they gave
:50:46. > :50:49.before and what they will get is a repeat of what he had in the past.
:50:50. > :50:52.They need to send a message by voting for parties who are committed
:50:53. > :50:55.to making devolution work and that will send the strongest possible
:50:56. > :51:04.message unequivocally to those entering the talks on the 9th of
:51:05. > :51:08.June. If you win in your constituency and you are returned as
:51:09. > :51:13.an MP, who is going to lead your party delegation in those talks? You
:51:14. > :51:18.will have a focus elsewhere. Can you continue if you are an MP to be the
:51:19. > :51:21.party leader? Of course I can and of course I can continue to lead the
:51:22. > :51:27.delegation. If you look at what happened in Stormont in the talks
:51:28. > :51:33.before, Mark Durkan was heavily involved Iniestia P delegation. We
:51:34. > :51:42.had Gerry Adams there. There is absolutely no reason... When I was
:51:43. > :51:44.an MP, I was our chief negotiator. I was our chief negotiator in the
:51:45. > :51:50.house and at no point did anybody say I was not doing a good job as an
:51:51. > :51:59.MP. You would have to give up yours would not be your seat in Stormont?
:52:00. > :52:03.That is automatic. MPs are required in Westminster for a large
:52:04. > :52:06.proportion of the week to vote, scrutinise and provide a voice for
:52:07. > :52:11.constituents. No person can be in two places at once. What I have said
:52:12. > :52:16.is that is absolutely correct and that is why we supported net double
:52:17. > :52:21.jogging. Voluntarily. I stood down from my position in the semi when I
:52:22. > :52:26.was last in Westminster and it is now law that people have to but what
:52:27. > :52:30.I am saying is... Do you imagine that our MPs go to Westminster and
:52:31. > :52:33.that they stay there and they do not remain connected with issues
:52:34. > :52:39.affecting their constituents? What a nonsense that would be. It is
:52:40. > :52:45.another thing being an MP and a party leader. If you have a strong
:52:46. > :52:48.coherent party behind you and an excellent deputy leader, there is
:52:49. > :52:51.absolutely no conflict whatsoever. The reality is that there are some
:52:52. > :52:54.of the parties that struggled with this who could not be led from
:52:55. > :52:56.anywhere. That is their difficulty and we don't have those problems in
:52:57. > :52:59.Alliance. Let's hear what Felicity
:53:00. > :53:13.and Chris make of that, Naomi Long did not likely phrase
:53:14. > :53:17.piggy in the middle in terms of being squeezed by the power blocs
:53:18. > :53:23.but is it a fair point to make? Historically it was the case to
:53:24. > :53:30.make. The first past the post feature meant that the Nationalists
:53:31. > :53:33.and the Unionists faced off. That is likely to be even more of an issue
:53:34. > :53:39.with Brexit dominating this campaign. It is but there are a
:53:40. > :53:48.number of caveats I were add to that. They had their best ever
:53:49. > :53:50.election in March. Those 72,000 people voted for Alliance
:53:51. > :53:55.candidates. They are now at the stage where in Naomi Long, they are
:53:56. > :53:59.one of the two favourite candidates in east Belfast and she will benefit
:54:00. > :54:03.from the Westminster first past the post. In other constituencies where
:54:04. > :54:11.they realise... They have decided to set them out. McAllister in north
:54:12. > :54:16.Belfast, that is going to lend more credibility to the notion that it is
:54:17. > :54:21.a straight battle between John Finnigan and Nigel Dodds. Which will
:54:22. > :54:25.be an interesting battle. Felicity, what do you make of the idea
:54:26. > :54:28.underscored again by Naomi Long that Dublin has an important part to play
:54:29. > :54:34.in those discussions about how exactly Brexit happens? I think that
:54:35. > :54:41.is the case. Dublin wants no hard border, the UK wants no hard border.
:54:42. > :54:46.So that is probably what is going to happen. Are you happy for the Dublin
:54:47. > :54:52.administration to speak on behalf of you question mark I don't see them
:54:53. > :54:57.doing that. I see them... They are not talk about the Northern Island
:54:58. > :55:03.people. There are people in Northern Ireland to think that is the case.
:55:04. > :55:11.The Taoiseach is voted in by people of the Irish Republic. That is his
:55:12. > :55:13.job. That is fine. Everybody is working towards the same thing. I
:55:14. > :55:14.don't really see a big problem with that one.
:55:15. > :55:26.Let's take a look back at the week in 60 seconds with Gareth Gordon.
:55:27. > :55:35.The number of general election candidate in Northern Ireland is
:55:36. > :55:39.down but more women are standing. The DUP and Ulster Unionist Party
:55:40. > :55:43.stepping aside for each other in two key constituencies. Whilst there is
:55:44. > :55:49.no formal pact, those two very significant moves I think will help
:55:50. > :55:53.the unionist people to send to unionist MPs back. If the DUP made a
:55:54. > :55:57.significant move on the Irish Sandwich, what would Sinn Fein be
:55:58. > :56:01.prepared to do over Ulster Scots? I am quite open for doing something if
:56:02. > :56:06.there is a therefore it. I said that from day one. The EU chief
:56:07. > :56:11.negotiator on Brexit visited Dublin and warned it will have
:56:12. > :56:17.consequences. Some controls are part of border management. To protect the
:56:18. > :56:22.single market. Something the Taoiseach seems all too aware of. We
:56:23. > :56:23.know how corrugated and seriously issues are for Europe as a whole and
:56:24. > :56:31.for Ireland. Gareth Gordon there, now tributes
:56:32. > :56:33.from across the political spectrum are being paid to Brendan Duddy,
:56:34. > :56:36.widely credited as an important The Londonderry business man
:56:37. > :56:40.died at the age of 80 Mitchel McLaughlin is
:56:41. > :56:56.in our studio in Derry. Thanks very much indeed for being
:56:57. > :56:59.with us today. There are many people who invested a great deal of their
:57:00. > :57:03.time and effort into the peace process but what is interesting
:57:04. > :57:06.about Brendan Duddy is he did that over such a long period of time and
:57:07. > :57:12.with so little public recognition for his efforts. Good morning, Mark.
:57:13. > :57:19.Could I also extend my sympathies to the wider family. Brendan Duddy was
:57:20. > :57:23.a friend and acquaintance over a 50 year period, so I had a lot of
:57:24. > :57:28.respect for him and I wasn't the least bit surprised by his modesty
:57:29. > :57:32.and reticence about going into the details of his involvement in the
:57:33. > :57:36.peace process, which was undoubtedly very significant and very helpful.
:57:37. > :57:38.When did you first become aware that Brendan Duddy was acting as a
:57:39. > :57:44.middleman between the British government and the Republican
:57:45. > :57:48.leadership? In the early days of the process, Sinn Fein had already
:57:49. > :57:53.designated Martin McGuinness as a single point of contact and
:57:54. > :57:59.negotiator and those circumstances, Brendan Duddy was acting as a
:58:00. > :58:04.contact person. Eventually I became of his -- aware of his involvement
:58:05. > :58:07.where he was seeking without success to contact to conduct Martin
:58:08. > :58:12.McGuinness and he used me as a contact back to Martin. Roughly when
:58:13. > :58:19.was that? What period are we talking about? The early 90s and throughout
:58:20. > :58:24.that period. He had been involved for 20 years before that. He was
:58:25. > :58:28.involved in the 70s, trying to persuade the IRA to remove their
:58:29. > :58:36.guns. He was a contact between Margaret Thatcher and the IRA. I was
:58:37. > :58:48.for instance aware of the messages that were delivered prior to the
:58:49. > :58:52.rights march on bloody Sunday. That was contradicted for many years by
:58:53. > :58:58.the British government. Brendan 's role in that particular exchange
:58:59. > :59:03.where he was working with the most senior RUC officer at the time, and
:59:04. > :59:13.other very decent and Bravo man, is the background to that situation. I
:59:14. > :59:21.was unaware of it for many years. -- honourable man. We know he used his
:59:22. > :59:24.own front room in his own home for a venue for discussions between Martin
:59:25. > :59:26.McGuinness and representatives of the predicament. For many people,
:59:27. > :59:31.that is above and beyond the call of duty. It was a remarkable commitment
:59:32. > :59:35.and it was not a conference or a political meeting or a discussion
:59:36. > :59:40.that Brendan Duddy did not contribute to, either from the floor
:59:41. > :59:45.or from the platform. He had a profile as one of the most prominent
:59:46. > :59:49.businessmen in the town. He also demonstrated his commitment to
:59:50. > :59:51.building understandings and exchanges across the political
:59:52. > :59:58.divisions that exist and he was quite clear in his own politics in
:59:59. > :00:02.later years declared himself a Republican. He wished to see a
:00:03. > :00:10.united Ireland. He was the person I first heard you ring the statement
:00:11. > :00:17.that we should begin in the Irish back to the Irish. It is important
:00:18. > :00:18.that his contribution should be recognised that the time of his
:00:19. > :00:21.passing. Good to talk to you. Thanks, Mitchel McLaughlin,
:00:22. > :00:32.a final thought from Chris. We really should be marking the
:00:33. > :00:38.passing of Brendan Duddy on a programme like this. Yes, I think
:00:39. > :00:42.so. He was somebody will never betrayed a dress. He was defined by
:00:43. > :00:46.his honesty and that is important given the role he was to fulfil for
:00:47. > :00:54.decades. I think he was clearly somebody who clearly believed in
:00:55. > :00:57.dialogue to ease tensions. And he was one of those people who planted
:00:58. > :00:57.dialogue to ease tensions. And he Tories are saying. It is a very
:00:58. > :00:58.was one of those people who planted the
:00:59. > :00:58.Tories are saying. It is a very emotive
:00:59. > :00:58.Tories are saying. It is a very the seeds
:00:59. > :00:58.Tories are saying. It is a very emotive subject
:00:59. > :00:58.Tories are saying. It is a very the seeds of the
:00:59. > :00:58.Tories are saying. It is a very emotive subject and we
:00:59. > :00:58.Tories are saying. It is a very the seeds of the piece
:00:59. > :00:58.Tories are saying. It is a very emotive subject and we have
:00:59. > :00:59.Tories are saying. It is a very the seeds of the piece that
:01:00. > :00:59.Tories are saying. It is a very emotive subject and we have run
:01:00. > :00:59.Tories are saying. It is a very the seeds of the piece that was
:01:00. > :00:59.Tories are saying. It is a very emotive subject and we have run out
:01:00. > :00:59.Tories are saying. It is a very the seeds of the piece that was to
:01:00. > :00:59.emotive subject and we have run out of time.
:01:00. > :01:00.the seeds of the piece that was to come.
:01:01. > :01:11.On Thursday nominations closed in the 650 parliamentary
:01:12. > :01:13.seats across the country, so now we know exactly who's
:01:14. > :01:20.We've been analysing the parties' candidates to find out
:01:21. > :01:22.what they might tell us about the make-up of the House
:01:23. > :01:27.Well, we know Theresa May is committed to delivering Brexit and
:01:28. > :01:32.analysis of Conservative candidates has shown that
:01:33. > :01:35.in their top 100 target seats, 37 candidates supported leave
:01:36. > :01:43.during last year's referendum campaign
:01:44. > :01:45.and 20 supported remain; 43 have not made public
:01:46. > :01:51.In the last parliament, the vast majority of Labour MPs
:01:52. > :01:53.were hostile to Jeremy Corbyn so how supportive are Labour
:01:54. > :02:00.Well, of 50 of Labour's top 100 target seats
:02:01. > :02:02.17 candidates have expressed support for Mr Corbyn.
:02:03. > :02:07.20 candidates supported Owen Smith in last year's leadership contest
:02:08. > :02:11.or have expressed anti-Corbyn sentiment, and
:02:12. > :02:17.If they won those, the Labour benches would be
:02:18. > :02:19.marginally more sympathetic to Mr Corbyn than they are now.
:02:20. > :02:21.What do the figures tell us about where the other
:02:22. > :02:25.Well, the Lib Dems have decided not to stand against the Greens
:02:26. > :02:27.in Brighton Pavilion, and are fielding 629
:02:28. > :02:30.candidates this year - that's two fewer than 2015.
:02:31. > :02:34.The number of Ukip candidates has fallen dramatically.
:02:35. > :02:40.They are standing in 247 fewer constituencies than 2015,
:02:41. > :02:42.throwing their support behind solidly pro-Brexit Tories
:02:43. > :02:46.in some areas such as Lewes and Norfolk North.
:02:47. > :02:50.The Greens are fielding 103 fewer candidates
:02:51. > :03:01.than at the last election, standing down to help
:03:02. > :03:07.other progressive candidates in some places.
:03:08. > :03:19.The most liking statistic is the demise in Ukip candidates, is this
:03:20. > :03:26.their swansong? And I think so. It is remarkable how few Ukip
:03:27. > :03:30.candidates are standing. It is hard to see they will suddenly revive in
:03:31. > :03:39.the next couple of years. I think this is probably the end. Frank
:03:40. > :03:44.Luntz mentioned the fragmentation of the left was a feature of this
:03:45. > :03:46.election, but also there is the consolidation of the right, and if
:03:47. > :03:52.you take the things together that could explain why the polls are
:03:53. > :03:57.where they are. Absolutely, that's precisely what happened at the start
:03:58. > :04:02.of the 1980s, the right was incredibly united and that's when we
:04:03. > :04:09.started talking about majorities of over 100 or so. No matter what the
:04:10. > :04:13.size of Theresa May's majority, it will be the total collapse of Ukip,
:04:14. > :04:19.but not just because we are now leaving the EU and that was their
:04:20. > :04:23.only reason for being, but a whole lot of people voted for Ukip because
:04:24. > :04:31.they felt the Tories were no longer listening. Theresa May has given the
:04:32. > :04:34.impression that she is listening, and that is the biggest possible
:04:35. > :04:42.thing that could happen to the Tory vote. Fragmentation of the left,
:04:43. > :04:48.consolidation of the right? It's one of the lessons that is never learnt,
:04:49. > :04:53.it happened in the 1980s, it doesn't take much for the whole thing to
:04:54. > :04:59.fracture so now you have on the centre-left the SNP, the Labour
:05:00. > :05:04.Party, the Greens, the Liberal Democrats all competing for the same
:05:05. > :05:08.votes and when you have, fleetingly perhaps, large numbers coalescing on
:05:09. > :05:13.the right in one party, there is only going to be one outcome. It
:05:14. > :05:19.happens regularly. It doesn't mean the Tories haven't got their own
:05:20. > :05:23.fragility. Two years ago, David Cameron and George Osborne the
:05:24. > :05:27.dominant figures, neither are in Parliament now which is a symptom of
:05:28. > :05:33.the fragility this election is disguising. Mrs May's position in a
:05:34. > :05:38.way reminds me of Mrs Thatcher in the 1980s, I won't be outflanked on
:05:39. > :05:42.the right, Nicolas Sarkozy in France, I won't be outflanked on the
:05:43. > :05:45.right, so the National Front didn't get through either timed he ran to
:05:46. > :05:52.the second round on like this time, and now Mrs May on Brexit won't be
:05:53. > :05:56.outflanked Iver and as a result has seen off right flank. And also she
:05:57. > :05:59.is looking to the left as well with some of the state interventions.
:06:00. > :06:03.What was interesting about the analysis you showed a few minutes
:06:04. > :06:08.ago was the number of Tory candidates who have apparently not
:06:09. > :06:12.declared which way they voted in the referendum, and you would have
:06:13. > :06:16.thought if this election was all about Brexit, as some would claim,
:06:17. > :06:21.that would become an unsustainable position, and actually more it's
:06:22. > :06:26.about leadership. But the point that I'm now hearing from a number of
:06:27. > :06:32.Labour candidates that they are seeing Tory leaflets that don't even
:06:33. > :06:37.have the Tory candidate's name on them, it is just about Theresa May.
:06:38. > :06:42.I am glad they are keeping to the law because by law they have to put
:06:43. > :06:48.it on. It has been harder for some of the smaller parties too because
:06:49. > :06:54.of the speed of the election being called. We have the manifesto is
:06:55. > :06:58.coming out this week. I think Labour Forshaw on Tuesday, we are not yet
:06:59. > :07:02.sure when the Tories will bring bears out. I suggest one thing, it
:07:03. > :07:10.will at least for people like me bring an end to the question you
:07:11. > :07:13.will have to wait for the manifesto. And Rebecca Long baby will never
:07:14. > :07:23.have that excuse again, isn't it wonderful! She is not the only one.
:07:24. > :07:29.When you are trying to take the north and Midlands from Labour, I
:07:30. > :07:34.would go to one or the other. For me, I can barely hold back my
:07:35. > :07:37.excitement over the Tory manifesto. This will be, I think, the most
:07:38. > :07:46.important day for the British government for the next five years.
:07:47. > :07:51.That wasn't irony there? You actually meant that? I'm not even
:07:52. > :07:58.being cynical at all on Sunday Politics! This is a huge day and
:07:59. > :08:02.it's because I think we will see... I don't think Mrs May will play it
:08:03. > :08:08.safe and I don't think we will get the broadbrush stuff that she might
:08:09. > :08:12.be advised to do. I think she will lay out precisely what you want to
:08:13. > :08:17.do over the next five years and take some big risks. Then finally after a
:08:18. > :08:21.year of this guessing and theorising, we will finally work out
:08:22. > :08:24.what Mrs May is all about. She will say she doesn't want the next
:08:25. > :08:28.parliament to be all about Brexit, though she knows that's the next
:08:29. > :08:32.important thing she has to deliver in some way, so she gets a mandate
:08:33. > :08:43.for that if the polls are right but she
:08:44. > :08:47.does have very different ideas from Mr Cameron about how to run a
:08:48. > :08:49.country. She will I assume one to mandate for what these different
:08:50. > :08:52.ideas are. Otherwise there is no point in holding an early election.
:08:53. > :08:56.You will get a majority, but if you get a mandate to carry on
:08:57. > :08:59.implementing the Cameron and Osborne manifesto it would be utterly
:09:00. > :09:02.pointless. I agree, it is the pivotal event of the election and it
:09:03. > :09:06.will be interesting to see the degree to which she expands on the
:09:07. > :09:11.line which interests me about its time to look at the good that
:09:12. > :09:18.government can do. Because in a way this moves the debate on in UK
:09:19. > :09:21.politics from, from 97 the Blair Brown governments were insecure
:09:22. > :09:26.about arguing about the role of government. Cameron Osborne
:09:27. > :09:30.government similarly so, so here you have a Labour Party talking about
:09:31. > :09:34.the role of government and the state, and Tory leader apparently
:09:35. > :09:38.doing so was well. I think that will be really interesting to see whether
:09:39. > :09:43.it is fleshed out in any significant way. And it is not a natural Tory
:09:44. > :09:51.message. Harold Macmillan talked about the role of the state, Ted
:09:52. > :09:56.Heath Mark two was pretty big on the state, the industrial policy and so
:09:57. > :10:00.on, and even if it is not thought to be that Tory, does she get away with
:10:01. > :10:05.it because she deliver such a big victory if that's what she does
:10:06. > :10:11.deliver? Just inject a little note of scepticism, I wonder how much of
:10:12. > :10:19.this is authentically Theresa May. I was interested to and talk to
:10:20. > :10:22.someone who used to sit in cabinet meetings during which Theresa May
:10:23. > :10:25.never expressed an opinion on anything outside the Home Office
:10:26. > :10:34.briefs. Other ministers were roving all over their colleagues' briefs.
:10:35. > :10:41.So where are the ideas coming from? I think we can point to Nick
:10:42. > :10:46.Timothy. One of her closest advisers in Downing Street. It will be
:10:47. > :10:52.interesting to see how that evolves. On Thursday I think we will all be
:10:53. > :11:02.talking about something called Urdington Toryism. Urdington is the
:11:03. > :11:07.suburb of Birmingham where Nick Timothy comes from, who is very much
:11:08. > :11:12.Theresa May's policy brain and leading inspiration. Urdington
:11:13. > :11:17.Toryism is about connecting the party with traditional working class
:11:18. > :11:21.voters, and their belief to do that is not just taking away government
:11:22. > :11:25.out of their lives but showing them that government can actually help
:11:26. > :11:37.their lives. It can be a force for good to rebuild the trust. A lot of
:11:38. > :11:41.what Mrs May talks about is all... It is talk and then a lot of it
:11:42. > :11:50.suddenly goes by the wayside. What happened to worker directors on the
:11:51. > :11:54.boards. It is designed to appeal to that constituency and then nothing
:11:55. > :11:59.happens. She had an excuse before in the sense that it wasn't in the 2015
:12:00. > :12:02.manifesto and she had a small majority so therefore she arguably
:12:03. > :12:08.had to water down some of the stuff for example in her Tory conference
:12:09. > :12:12.speech, which had a lot of this active government material in it. If
:12:13. > :12:17.she puts it in the manifesto, it is a sign she plans to do it and will
:12:18. > :12:21.have no excuse if she then gets nervous afterwards because it will
:12:22. > :12:26.be in there. If it wasn't for Brexit, this great overwhelming
:12:27. > :12:29.issue, I think this election will be seen as quite a significant
:12:30. > :12:34.development in terms of an argument around the role of government,
:12:35. > :12:39.much-needed. But Brexit unfortunately overshadows it all. As
:12:40. > :12:43.much as we like our arguments over the role of government we will hear
:12:44. > :12:51.strong and stable, stable and strong ad nauseam, aren't we? Absolutely,
:12:52. > :12:57.and we heard the same old lines from the Labour Party as well so they are
:12:58. > :13:01.all at it. It will be a fascinating week, stop talking it down! Thanks
:13:02. > :13:03.to our panel. The Daily Politics will be
:13:04. > :13:06.back on BBC Two at noon I'll be back here at the same time
:13:07. > :13:10.on BBC One next Sunday. Remember - if it's Sunday,
:13:11. > :13:14.it's the Sunday Politics.