15/01/2017

:00:36. > :00:39.It's Sunday morning, and this is the Sunday Politics.

:00:40. > :00:42.Is the Prime Minister prepared to end Britain's membership

:00:43. > :00:46.of the EU's single market and its customs union?

:00:47. > :00:49.We preview Theresa May's big speech, as she seeks to unite the country

:00:50. > :00:56.Is the press a force for good or a beast that needs taming?

:00:57. > :00:58.As the Government ponders its decision, we speak to one

:00:59. > :01:03.of those leading the campaign for greater regulation.

:01:04. > :01:09.Just what kind of President will Donald Trump be?

:01:10. > :01:14.Piers Morgan, a man who knows him well, joins us live.

:01:15. > :01:19.We've heard plenty from the DUP and Sinn Fein in the past week.

:01:20. > :01:21.Today the Ulster Unionists, SDLP and Alliance have their say

:01:22. > :01:30.on what feels like the eve of a new election campaign.

:01:31. > :01:33.And to help me make sense of all that, three of the finest

:01:34. > :01:36.hacks we could persuade to work on a Sunday - Steve Richards,

:01:37. > :01:44.They'll be tweeting throughout the programme, and you can join

:01:45. > :01:51.So, Theresa May is preparing for her big Brexit speech on Tuesday,

:01:52. > :01:53.in which she will urge people to give up on "insults"

:01:54. > :01:58.and "division" and unite to build, quote, a "global Britain".

:01:59. > :02:01.Some of the Sunday papers report that the Prime Minister will go

:02:02. > :02:04.The Sunday Telegraph splashes with the headline: "May's big

:02:05. > :02:08.gamble on a clean Brexit", saying the Prime Minister

:02:09. > :02:10.will announce she's prepared to take Britain out of membership

:02:11. > :02:15.of the single market and customs union.

:02:16. > :02:18.The Sunday Times has a similar write-up -

:02:19. > :02:21.they call it a "clean and hard Brexit".

:02:22. > :02:24.The Brexit Secretary David Davis has also written a piece in the paper

:02:25. > :02:27.hinting that a transitional deal could be on the cards.

:02:28. > :02:30.And the Sunday Express says: "May's Brexit Battle Plan",

:02:31. > :02:33.explaining that the Prime Minister will get tough with Brussels

:02:34. > :02:36.and call for an end to free movement.

:02:37. > :02:38.Well, let's get some more reaction on this.

:02:39. > :02:40.I'm joined now from Cumbria by the leader

:02:41. > :02:47.of the Liberal Democrats, Tim Farron.

:02:48. > :02:52.Mr Farron, welcome back to the programme. The Prime Minister says

:02:53. > :02:56.most people now just want to get on with it and make a success of it.

:02:57. > :03:02.But you still want to stop it, don't you? Well, I certainly take the view

:03:03. > :03:05.that heading for a hard Brexit, essentially that means being outside

:03:06. > :03:10.the Single Market and the customs union, is not something that was on

:03:11. > :03:13.the ballot paper last June. For Theresa May to adopt what is

:03:14. > :03:18.basically the large all Farage vision of Britain's relationship

:03:19. > :03:22.with Europe is not what was voted for last June. It is right for us to

:03:23. > :03:26.stand up and say that a hard Brexit is not the democratic choice of the

:03:27. > :03:29.British people, and that we should be fighting for the people to be the

:03:30. > :03:33.ones who have the Seat the end of this process, not have it forced

:03:34. > :03:37.upon them by Theresa May and David Davis. When it comes though dual

:03:38. > :03:41.position that we should remain in the membership of the Single Market

:03:42. > :03:47.and the customs union, it looks like you are losing the argument, doesn't

:03:48. > :03:51.it? My sense is that if you believe in being in the Single Market and

:03:52. > :03:55.the customs union are good things, I think many people on the leave site

:03:56. > :04:00.believe that, Stephen Phillips, the Conservative MP until the autumn who

:04:01. > :04:03.resigned, who voted for Leave but believe we should be in the Single

:04:04. > :04:08.Market, I think those people believe that it is wrong for us to enter the

:04:09. > :04:12.negotiations having given up on the most important part of it. If you

:04:13. > :04:16.really are going to fight Britain's corner, then you should go in there

:04:17. > :04:22.fighting the membership of the Single Market, not give up and

:04:23. > :04:26.whitefly, as Theresa May has done before we even start. -- and wave

:04:27. > :04:30.the white flag. Will you vote against regret Article 50 in the

:04:31. > :04:33.Commons? We made it clear that we want the British people to have the

:04:34. > :04:38.final Seat -- vote against triggering. Will you vote against

:04:39. > :04:44.Article 50. Will you encourage the House of Lords to vote against out

:04:45. > :04:48.Article 50? I don't think they will get a chance to vote. They will have

:04:49. > :04:51.a chance to win the deuce amendments. One amendment we will

:04:52. > :04:56.introduce is that there should be a referendum in the terms of the deal.

:04:57. > :04:59.It is not right that Parliament on Government, and especially not civil

:05:00. > :05:03.servants in Brussels and Whitehall, they should stitch-up the final

:05:04. > :05:07.deal. That would be wrong. It is right that the British people have

:05:08. > :05:13.the final say. I understand that as your position. You made it clear

:05:14. > :05:16.Britain to remain a member of the Single Market on the customs union.

:05:17. > :05:19.You accept, I assume, that that would mean remaining under the

:05:20. > :05:22.jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice, continuing free movement

:05:23. > :05:28.of people, and the free-trade deals remained in Brussels' competence. So

:05:29. > :05:33.it seems to me that if you believe that being in the Single Market is a

:05:34. > :05:36.good thing, then you should go and argue for that. Whilst I believe

:05:37. > :05:39.that we're not going to get a better deal than the one we currently have,

:05:40. > :05:42.nevertheless it is up to the Government to go and argue for the

:05:43. > :05:47.best deal possible for us outside. You accept your position would mean

:05:48. > :05:51.that? It would mean certainly being in the Single Market and the customs

:05:52. > :05:54.union. It's no surprise to you I'm sure that the Lib Dems believe the

:05:55. > :05:58.package we have got now inside the EU is going to be of the Nutley

:05:59. > :06:02.better than anything we get from the outside, I accept the direction of

:06:03. > :06:06.travel -- is going to be the Nutley better. At the moment, what the

:06:07. > :06:10.Government are doing is assuming that all the things you say Drew,

:06:11. > :06:13.and there is no way possible for us arguing for a deal that allows in

:06:14. > :06:17.the Single Market without some of those other things. If they really

:06:18. > :06:22.believed in the best for Britain, you would go and argue for the best

:06:23. > :06:28.for Britain. Let's be clear, if we remain under the jurisdiction of the

:06:29. > :06:31.ECJ, which is the court that governs membership of the Single Market,

:06:32. > :06:36.continued free movement of people, the Europeans have made clear, is

:06:37. > :06:40.what goes with the Single Market. And free-trade deals remaining under

:06:41. > :06:44.Brussels' competence. If we accepted all of that is the price of

:06:45. > :06:46.membership of the Single Market, in what conceivable way with that

:06:47. > :06:53.amount to leaving the European Union? Well, for example, I do

:06:54. > :06:57.believe that being a member of the Single Market is worth fighting for.

:06:58. > :07:00.I personally believe that freedom of movement is a good thing. British

:07:01. > :07:04.people benefit from freedom of movement. We will hugely be hit as

:07:05. > :07:09.individuals and families and businesses. Mike I understand, but

:07:10. > :07:14.your writing of leaving... There the butt is that if you do except that

:07:15. > :07:19.freedom of movement has to change, I don't, but if you do, and if you are

:07:20. > :07:24.Theresa May, and the problem is to go and fight for the best deal,

:07:25. > :07:26.don't take it from Brussels that you can't be in the Single Market

:07:27. > :07:32.without those other things as well, you don't go and argue the case. It

:07:33. > :07:35.depresses me that Theresa May is beginning this process is waving the

:07:36. > :07:41.white flag, just as this morning Jeremy Corbyn was waving the white

:07:42. > :07:43.flag when it comes to it. We need a Government that will fight Britain's

:07:44. > :07:47.corner and an opposition that will fight the Government to make sure

:07:48. > :07:53.that it fights. Just explain to our viewers how we could remain members,

:07:54. > :07:59.members of the Single Market, and not be subject to the jurisdiction

:08:00. > :08:03.of the European court? So, first of all we spent over the last many,

:08:04. > :08:07.many years, the likes of Nigel Farage and others, will have argued,

:08:08. > :08:10.you heard them on this very programme, that Britain should

:08:11. > :08:13.aspire to be like Norway and Switzerland for example, countries

:08:14. > :08:17.that are not in the European Union but aren't the Single Market. It is

:08:18. > :08:21.very clear to me that if you want the best deal for Britain -- but are

:08:22. > :08:25.in the Single Market. You go and argue for the best deal. What is the

:08:26. > :08:31.answer to my question, you haven't answered it

:08:32. > :08:36.the question is, how does the Prime Minister go and fight for the best

:08:37. > :08:41.deal for Britain. If we think that being in the Single Market is the

:08:42. > :08:45.right thing, not Baxter -- not access to it but membership of it,

:08:46. > :08:49.you don't wave the white flag before you enter the negotiating room. I'm

:08:50. > :08:53.afraid we have run out of time. Thank you, Tim Farron.

:08:54. > :08:59.The leaks on this speech on Tuesday we have seen, it is interesting that

:09:00. > :09:06.Downing Street has not attempted to dampen them down this morning, in

:09:07. > :09:10.the various papers, do they tell us something new? Do they tell us more

:09:11. > :09:14.of the Goverment's aims in the Brexit negotiations? I think it's

:09:15. > :09:17.only a confirmation of something which has been in the mating really

:09:18. > :09:23.for the six months that she's been in the job. The logic of everything

:09:24. > :09:28.that she's said since last July, the keenness on re-gaining control of

:09:29. > :09:31.migration, the desire to do international trade deals, the fact

:09:32. > :09:34.that she is appointed trade Secretary, the logic of all of that

:09:35. > :09:38.is that we are out of the Single Market, quite probably out of the

:09:39. > :09:41.customs union, what will happen this week is a restatement of a fairly

:09:42. > :09:45.clear position anyway. I think Tim Farron is right about one thing, I

:09:46. > :09:48.don't think she will go into the speech planning to absolutely

:09:49. > :09:56.definitively say, we are leaving those things. Because even if there

:09:57. > :09:58.is a 1% chance of a miracle deal, where you stay in the Single Market,

:09:59. > :10:01.somehow get exempted from free movement, it is prudent to keep

:10:02. > :10:06.hopes on that option as a Prime Minister. -- to keep open that

:10:07. > :10:09.option. She is being advised both by the diplomatic corps and her

:10:10. > :10:12.personal advisers, don't concede on membership of the Single Market yet.

:10:13. > :10:21.We know it's not going to happen, but let them Europeans knock us back

:10:22. > :10:25.on that,... That is probably the right strategy for all of the

:10:26. > :10:29.reasons that Jarlan outlined there. What we learned a bit today is the

:10:30. > :10:32.possibility of some kind of transition or arrangements, which

:10:33. > :10:36.David Davies has been talking about in a comment piece for one of the

:10:37. > :10:41.Sunday papers. My sense from Brexiteers aborting MPs is that they

:10:42. > :10:46.are very happy with 90% of the rhetoric -- Brexit sporting MPs. The

:10:47. > :10:52.rhetoric has not been dampened down by MPs, apart from this transitional

:10:53. > :10:55.arrangement, which they feel and two France, on the one front will

:10:56. > :10:59.encourage the very dilatory EU to spend longer than ever negotiating a

:11:00. > :11:03.deal, and on the other hand will also be exactly what our civil

:11:04. > :11:07.service looks for in stringing things out. What wasn't explained

:11:08. > :11:11.this morning is what David Davies means by transitional is not that

:11:12. > :11:14.you negotiate what you can in two years and then spend another five

:11:15. > :11:20.years on the matter is that a lot of the soul. He thinks everything has

:11:21. > :11:23.to be done in the two years, -- of the matter are hard to solve. But it

:11:24. > :11:28.would include transitional arrangements over the five years.

:11:29. > :11:34.What we are seeing in the build-up is the danger of making these kind

:11:35. > :11:37.of speeches. In a way, I kind of admired her not feeding the media

:11:38. > :11:43.machine over the autumn and the end of last year cars, as Janan has

:11:44. > :11:46.pointed out in his columns, she has actually said quite a lot from it,

:11:47. > :11:51.you would extrapolate quite a lot. We won't be members of the Single

:11:52. > :11:57.Market? She said that in the party conference speech, we are out of

:11:58. > :12:02.European court. Her red line is the end of free movement, so we are out

:12:03. > :12:05.of the Single Market. Why has she sent Liam Fox to negotiate all of

:12:06. > :12:09.these other deals, not that he will succeed necessarily, but that is the

:12:10. > :12:12.intention? We are still in the customs union. You can extrapolate

:12:13. > :12:17.what she will say perhaps more cautiously in the headlines on

:12:18. > :12:21.Tuesday. But the grammar of a big speech raises expectations, gets the

:12:22. > :12:24.markets worked up. So she is doing it because people have said that she

:12:25. > :12:28.doesn't know what she's on about. But maybe she should have resisted

:12:29. > :12:32.it. Very well, and she hasn't. The speech is on Tuesday morning.

:12:33. > :12:34.Now, the public consultation on press regulation closed this

:12:35. > :12:36.week, and soon ministers will have to decide whether to

:12:37. > :12:38.enact a controversial piece of legislation.

:12:39. > :12:40.Section 40 of the Crime and Courts Act, if implemented,

:12:41. > :12:43.could see newspapers forced to pay legal costs in libel and privacy

:12:44. > :12:53.If they don't sign up to an officially approved regulator.

:12:54. > :12:55.The newspapers say it's an affront to a free press,

:12:56. > :12:58.while pro-privacy campaigners say it's the only way to ensure

:12:59. > :13:00.a scandal like phone-hacking can't happen again.

:13:01. > :13:05.Ellie Price has been reading all about it.

:13:06. > :13:09.It was the biggest news about the news for decades,

:13:10. > :13:15.a scandal that involved household names, but not just celebrities.

:13:16. > :13:17.They've even hacked the phone of a murdered schoolgirl.

:13:18. > :13:20.It led to the closure of the News Of The World,

:13:21. > :13:30.a year-long public inquiry headed up by the judge Lord Justice Leveson,

:13:31. > :13:33.and in the end, a new press watchdog set up by Royal Charter,

:13:34. > :13:35.which could impose, among other things, million-pound fines.

:13:36. > :13:37.If this system is implemented, the country should have confidence

:13:38. > :13:39.that the terrible suffering of innocent victims

:13:40. > :13:41.like the Dowlers, the McCanns and Christopher Jefferies should

:13:42. > :13:47.To get this new plan rolling, the Government also passed

:13:48. > :13:51.the Crime and Courts Act, Section 40 of which would force

:13:52. > :13:54.publications who didn't sign up to the new regulator to pay legal

:13:55. > :13:58.costs in libel and privacy cases, even if they won.

:13:59. > :14:01.It's waiting for sign-off from the Culture Secretary.

:14:02. > :14:05.We've got about 50 publications that have signed up...

:14:06. > :14:08.This is Impress, the press regulator that's got the backing

:14:09. > :14:13.of the Royal Charter, so its members are protected

:14:14. > :14:17.from the penalties that would be imposed by Section 40.

:14:18. > :14:22.It's funded by the Formula One tycoon Max Mosley's

:14:23. > :14:28.I think the danger if we don't get Section 40 is that

:14:29. > :14:29.you have an incomplete Leveson project.

:14:30. > :14:33.I think it's very, very likely that within the next five or ten years

:14:34. > :14:35.there will be a scandal, there'll be a crisis in press

:14:36. > :14:37.standards, everyone will be saying to the Government,

:14:38. > :14:40."Why on Earth didn't you sort things out when you had the chance?"

:14:41. > :14:43.Isn't Section 40 essentially just a big stick to beat

:14:44. > :14:51.We hear a lot about the stick part, but there's also a big juicy carrot

:14:52. > :14:53.for publishers and their journalists who are members of an

:14:54. > :14:56.They get huge new protections from libel threats,

:14:57. > :14:58.from privacy actions, which actually means they've got

:14:59. > :15:07.a lot more opportunity to run investigative stories.

:15:08. > :15:10.Impress has a big image problem - not a single national

:15:11. > :15:15.Instead, many of them are members of Ipso,

:15:16. > :15:18.the independent regulator set up and funded by the industry that

:15:19. > :15:24.doesn't seek the recognition of the Royal Charter.

:15:25. > :15:27.The male cells around 22,000 each day...

:15:28. > :15:30.There are regional titles too, who, like the Birmingham Mail,

:15:31. > :15:32.won't sign up to Impress, even if they say the costs

:15:33. > :15:36.are associated with Section 40 could put them out of business.

:15:37. > :15:39.Impress has an umbilical cord that goes directly back to Government

:15:40. > :15:41.through the recognition setup that it has.

:15:42. > :15:43.Now, we broke free of the shackles of the regulated press

:15:44. > :15:46.when the stamp duty was revealed 150 years ago.

:15:47. > :15:54.If we go back to this level of oversight, then I think

:15:55. > :15:58.we turn the clock back, 150 years of press freedom.

:15:59. > :16:01.The responses from the public have been coming thick and fast

:16:02. > :16:02.since the Government launched its consultation

:16:03. > :16:05.In fact, by the time it closed on Tuesday,

:16:06. > :16:10.And for that reason alone, it could take months before

:16:11. > :16:14.a decision on what happens next is taken.

:16:15. > :16:17.The Government will also be minded to listen to its own MPs,

:16:18. > :16:23.One described it to me as Draconian and hugely damaging.

:16:24. > :16:25.So, will the current Culture Secretary's thinking be

:16:26. > :16:34.I don't think the Government will repeal section 40.

:16:35. > :16:38.What I'm arguing for is not to implement it, but it will remain

:16:39. > :16:42.on the statute book and if it then became apparent that Ipso simply

:16:43. > :16:45.was failing to work, was not delivering effective

:16:46. > :16:49.regulation and the press were behaving in a way

:16:50. > :16:53.which was wholly unacceptable, as they were ten years ago,

:16:54. > :16:57.then there might be an argument at that time to think well in that

:16:58. > :16:59.case we are going to have to take further measures,

:17:00. > :17:04.The future of section 40 might not be so black and white.

:17:05. > :17:07.I'm told a compromise could be met whereby the punitive parts

:17:08. > :17:11.about legal costs are dropped, but the incentives

:17:12. > :17:14.to join a recognised regulator are beefed up.

:17:15. > :17:17.But it could yet be some time until the issue of press freedom

:17:18. > :17:27.I'm joined now by Max Mosley - he won a legal case against the News

:17:28. > :17:30.Of The World after it revealed details about his private life,

:17:31. > :17:34.and he now campaigns for more press regulation.

:17:35. > :17:43.Are welcome to the programme. Let me ask you this, how can it be right

:17:44. > :17:47.that you, who many folk think have a clear vendetta against the British

:17:48. > :17:52.press, can bankroll a government approved regulator of the press? If

:17:53. > :17:57.we hadn't done it, nobody would, section 40 would never have come

:17:58. > :18:01.into force because there would never have been a regulator. It is

:18:02. > :18:05.absolutely wrong that a family trust should have to finance something

:18:06. > :18:10.like this. It should be financed by the press or the Government. If we

:18:11. > :18:11.hadn't done it there would be no possibility of regulation. But it

:18:12. > :18:39.means we end up with a regulator financed by you, as I say

:18:40. > :18:41.many people think you have a clear vendetta against the press. Where

:18:42. > :18:44.does the money come from? From a family trust, it is family money.

:18:45. > :18:46.You have to understand that somebody had to do this. I understand that.

:18:47. > :18:49.People like to know where the money comes from, I think you said it came

:18:50. > :18:53.from Brixton Steyn at one stage. Ages ago my father had a trust there

:18:54. > :18:56.but now all my money is in the UK. We are clear about that, but this is

:18:57. > :19:02.money that was put together by your father. Yes, my father inherited it

:19:03. > :19:06.from his father and his father. The whole of Manchester once belonged to

:19:07. > :19:11.the family, that's why there is a Mosley Street. That is irrelevant

:19:12. > :19:14.because as we have given the money, I have no control. If you do the

:19:15. > :19:25.most elementary checks into the contract between my family trust,

:19:26. > :19:29.the trust but finances Impress, it is impossible for me to exert any

:19:30. > :19:36.influence. It is just the same as if it had come from the National

:19:37. > :19:40.lottery. People will find it ironic that the money has come from

:19:41. > :19:49.historically Britain's best-known fascist. No, it has come from my

:19:50. > :19:53.family, the Mosley family. This is complete drivel because we have no

:19:54. > :19:58.control. Where the money comes from doesn't matter, if it had come from

:19:59. > :20:03.the national lottery it would be exactly the same. Impress was

:20:04. > :20:08.completely independent. But it wouldn't exist without your money,

:20:09. > :20:12.wouldn't it? But that doesn't give you influence. It might exist

:20:13. > :20:18.because it was founded before I was ever in contact with them. Isn't it

:20:19. > :20:23.curious then that so many leading light show your hostile views of the

:20:24. > :20:28.press? I don't think it is because I don't know a single member of the

:20:29. > :20:33.Impress board. The chairman I have met months. The only person I know

:20:34. > :20:41.is Jonathan Hayward who you had on just now. In one recent months he

:20:42. > :20:46.tweeted 50 attacks on the Daily Mail, including some calling for an

:20:47. > :20:52.advertising boycott of the paper. He also liked a Twitter post calling me

:20:53. > :20:57.Daily Mail and neofascist rag. Are these fitting for what is meant to

:20:58. > :21:02.be impartial regulator? The person you should ask about that is the

:21:03. > :21:05.press regulatory panel and they are completely independent, they

:21:06. > :21:10.reviewed the whole thing. You have probably produced something very

:21:11. > :21:12.selective, I have no idea but I am certain that these people are

:21:13. > :21:17.absolutely trustworthy and independent. It is not just Mr

:21:18. > :21:22.Hayward, we have a tonne of things he has tweeted calling for boycotts,

:21:23. > :21:28.remember this is the man that would be the regulator of these papers.

:21:29. > :21:34.He's the chief executive, that is a separate thing. The administration,

:21:35. > :21:43.the regulator. Many leading light show your vendetta of the press. I

:21:44. > :21:59.do not have a vendetta. Let's take another one. This person is on the

:22:00. > :22:05.code committee. Have a look at this. As someone with these views fit to

:22:06. > :22:09.be involved in the regulation of the press? You said I have a vendetta

:22:10. > :22:14.against the press, I do not, I didn't say that and it is completely

:22:15. > :22:20.wrong to say I have a vendetta. What do you think of that? I don't agree,

:22:21. > :22:31.I wouldn't ban the Daily Mail, I think it's a dreadful paper but I

:22:32. > :22:39.wouldn't ban it. Another Impress code committee said I hate the Daily

:22:40. > :22:43.Mail, I couldn't agree more, others have called for a boycott. Other

:22:44. > :22:48.people can say what they want and many people may think they are right

:22:49. > :22:54.but surely these views make them unfit to be partial regulators? I

:22:55. > :22:57.have no influence over Impress therefore I cannot say anything

:22:58. > :23:04.about it. You should ask them, not me. All I have done is make it

:23:05. > :23:09.possible for Impress to exist and that was the right thing to do. I'm

:23:10. > :23:15.asking you if people with these kind of views are fit to be regulators of

:23:16. > :23:21.the press. You would have to ask about all of their views, these are

:23:22. > :23:27.some of their views. A lot of people have a downer on the Daily Mail and

:23:28. > :23:31.the Sun, it doesn't necessarily make them party pre-. Why would

:23:32. > :23:37.newspapers sign up to a regulator run by what they think is run by

:23:38. > :23:41.enemies out to ruin them. If they don't like it they should start

:23:42. > :23:48.their own section 40 regulator. They could make it so recognised, if only

:23:49. > :23:57.they would make it independent of the big newspaper barons but they

:23:58. > :24:07.won't -- they could make Ipso recognised. Is the Daily Mail

:24:08. > :24:11.fascist? It certainly was in the 1930s. Me and my father are

:24:12. > :24:16.relevant, this whole section 40 issue is about access to justice.

:24:17. > :24:20.The press don't want ordinary people who cannot afford to bring an action

:24:21. > :24:24.against the press, don't want them to have access to justice. I can

:24:25. > :24:30.understand that but I don't sympathise. What would happen to the

:24:31. > :24:37.boss of Ofcom, which regulates broadcasters, if it described

:24:38. > :24:46.Channel 4 News is a Marxist scum? If the press don't want to sign up to

:24:47. > :24:55.Impress they can create their own regulator. If you were to listen we

:24:56. > :25:00.would get a lot further. The press should make their own Levenson

:25:01. > :25:05.compliant regulator, then they would have no complaints at all. Even

:25:06. > :25:10.papers like the Guardian, the Independent, the Financial Times,

:25:11. > :25:17.they show your hostility to tabloid journalism. They have refused to be

:25:18. > :25:21.regulated by Impress. I will say it again, the press could start their

:25:22. > :25:26.own regulator, they do not have to sign... Yes, but Levenson compliant

:25:27. > :25:30.one giving access to justice so people who cannot afford an

:25:31. > :25:34.expensive legal action have a proper arbitration service. The Guardian,

:25:35. > :25:38.the Independent, the Financial Times, they don't want to do that

:25:39. > :25:43.either. That would suggest there is something fatally flawed about your

:25:44. > :25:55.approach. Even these kind of papers, the Guardian, Impress is hardly

:25:56. > :26:04.independent, the head of... Andrew, I am sorry, you are like a dog with

:26:05. > :26:08.a bone. The press could start their own regulator, then people like the

:26:09. > :26:12.Financial Times, the Guardian and so one could decide whether they wanted

:26:13. > :26:15.to join or not but what is absolutely vital is that we should

:26:16. > :26:19.have a proper arbitration service so that people who cannot afford an

:26:20. > :26:24.expensive action have somewhere to go. This business of section 40

:26:25. > :26:28.which you want to be triggered which would mean papers that didn't sign

:26:29. > :26:32.up to Impress could be sued in any case and they would have to pay

:26:33. > :26:41.potentially massive legal costs, even if they win. Yes. This is what

:26:42. > :26:46.the number of papers have said about this, if section 40 was triggered,

:26:47. > :26:53.the Guardian wouldn't even think of investigation. The Sunday Times said

:26:54. > :26:56.it would not have even started to expose Lance Armstrong. The Times

:26:57. > :27:01.journalist said he couldn't have done the Rotherham child abuse

:27:02. > :27:05.scandal. What they all come it is a full reading of section 40 because

:27:06. > :27:12.that cost shifting will only apply if, and I quote, it is just and

:27:13. > :27:16.equitable in all the circumstances. I cannot conceive of any High Court

:27:17. > :27:21.judge, for example the Lance Armstrong case or the child abuse,

:27:22. > :27:26.saying it is just as equitable in all circumstances the newspaper

:27:27. > :27:32.should pay these costs. Even the editor of index on censorship, which

:27:33. > :27:36.is hardly the Sun, said this would be oppressive and they couldn't do

:27:37. > :27:42.what they do, they would risk being sued by warlords. No because if

:27:43. > :27:47.something unfortunate, some really bad person sues them, what would

:27:48. > :27:50.happen is the judge would say it is just inequitable normal

:27:51. > :27:54.circumstances that person should pay. Section 40 is for the person

:27:55. > :27:58.that comes along and says to a big newspaper, can we go to arbitration

:27:59. > :28:03.because I cannot afford to go to court. The big newspaper says no.

:28:04. > :28:08.That leaves less than 1% of the population with any remedy if the

:28:09. > :28:14.newspapers traduce them. It cannot be right. From the Guardian to the

:28:15. > :28:20.Sun, and including Index On Censorship, all of these media

:28:21. > :28:23.outlets think you are proposing a charter for conmen, warlords, crime

:28:24. > :28:27.bosses, dodgy politicians, celebrities with a grievance against

:28:28. > :28:36.the press. I will give you the final word to address that. It is pure

:28:37. > :28:41.guff and the reason is they want to go on marking their own homework.

:28:42. > :28:45.The press don't want anyone to make sure life is fair. All I want is

:28:46. > :28:50.somebody who has got no money to be able to sue in just the way that I

:28:51. > :28:53.can. All right, thanks for being with us.

:28:54. > :28:55.The doctors' union, the British Medical Association,

:28:56. > :28:57.has said the Government is scapegoating GPs in England

:28:58. > :29:01.The Government has said GP surgeries must try harder to stay

:29:02. > :29:04.open from 8am to 8pm, or they could lose out on funding.

:29:05. > :29:07.The pressure on A services in recent weeks has been intense.

:29:08. > :29:10.It emerged this week that 65 of the 152 Health Trusts in England

:29:11. > :29:12.had issued an operational pressure alert in the first

:29:13. > :29:19.At either level three, meaning major pressures,

:29:20. > :29:21.or level four, indicating an inability to deliver

:29:22. > :29:26.On Monday, Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt told the Commons

:29:27. > :29:29.that the number of people using A had increased by 9 million

:29:30. > :29:37.But that 30% of those visits were unnecessary.

:29:38. > :29:39.He said that the situation at a number of Trusts

:29:40. > :29:44.On Tuesday, the Royal College of Physicians wrote

:29:45. > :29:47.to the Prime Minister saying the health service was being

:29:48. > :29:52.paralysed by spiralling demand, and urging greater investment.

:29:53. > :29:56.On Wednesday, the Chief Executive of NHS England, Simon Stevens,

:29:57. > :30:01.told a Select Committee that NHS funding will be highly constrained.

:30:02. > :30:05.And from 2018, real-terms spending per person would fall.

:30:06. > :30:09.The Prime Minister described the Red Cross's claim that A

:30:10. > :30:13.was facing a "humanitarian crisis" as "irresponsible and overblown".

:30:14. > :30:17.And the National Audit Office issued a report that found almost half,

:30:18. > :30:23.46%, of GP surgeries closed at some point during core hours.

:30:24. > :30:27.Yesterday, Mrs May signalled her support for doctors' surgeries

:30:28. > :30:31.opening from 8am to 8pm every day of the week, in order to divert

:30:32. > :30:38.To discuss this, I'm joined now by the Conservative

:30:39. > :30:41.MP Maria Caulfield - she was an NHS nurse in a former

:30:42. > :30:43.life - and Clare Gerada, a former chair of the Royal College

:30:44. > :30:54.Welcome to you both. So, Maria Caulfield, what the Government is

:30:55. > :30:58.saying, Downing Street in effect is saying that GPs do not work hard

:30:59. > :31:02.enough and that's the reason why A was under such pressure? No, I don't

:31:03. > :31:05.think that is the message, I think that is the message that the media

:31:06. > :31:10.have taken up. That is not the expression that we want to give. I

:31:11. > :31:14.still work as a nurse, I know how hard doctors work in hospitals and

:31:15. > :31:19.GP practices. When the rose 30% of people turning up at A for neither

:31:20. > :31:24.an accident or an emergency, we do need to look at alternative. Where

:31:25. > :31:28.is the GPs' operability in this? We know from patients that if they

:31:29. > :31:32.cannot get access to GPs, they will do one of three things. They will

:31:33. > :31:35.wait two or three weeks until they can get an appointment, they will

:31:36. > :31:39.forget about the problem altogether, which is not good, we want patients

:31:40. > :31:48.to be getting investigations at early stages, or they will go to

:31:49. > :31:51.A And that is a problem. I'm not quite sure what the role that GPs

:31:52. > :31:54.play in this. What is your response in that? I think about 70% of

:31:55. > :31:57.patients that I see should not be seen by me but should still be seen

:31:58. > :32:01.by hospital consultants. If we look at it from GPs' eyes and not from

:32:02. > :32:05.hospital's eyes, because that is what it is, we might get somewhere.

:32:06. > :32:10.Tomorrow morning, every practice in England will have about 1.5 GPs

:32:11. > :32:16.shot, that's not even counting if there is traffic problems, sickness

:32:17. > :32:18.or whatever. -- GPs shot. We cannot work any harder, I cannot

:32:19. > :32:26.physically, emotionally work any harder. We are open 12 hours a day,

:32:27. > :32:30.most of us, I run practices open 365 days per year 24 hours a day. I

:32:31. > :32:34.don't understand this. It is one thing attacking me as a GP from

:32:35. > :32:38.working hard enough, but it is another thing saying that GPs as a

:32:39. > :32:43.profession and doing what they should be doing. Let me in National

:32:44. > :32:50.Audit Office has coming up with these figures showing that almost

:32:51. > :32:54.half of doctors' practices are not open during core hours at some part

:32:55. > :32:58.of the week. That's where the implication comes, that they are not

:32:59. > :33:02.working hard enough. What do you say to that? I don't recognise this. I'm

:33:03. > :33:06.not being defensive, I'm just don't recognise it. There are practices

:33:07. > :33:10.working palliative care services, practices have to close home visits

:33:11. > :33:13.if they are single-handed, some of us are working in care homes during

:33:14. > :33:20.the day. They may shot for an hour in the middle of the data will sort

:33:21. > :33:23.out some of the prescriptions and admin -- they may shot. My practice

:33:24. > :33:25.runs a number of practices across London. If we shut during our

:33:26. > :33:30.contractual hours we would have NHS England coming down on us like a

:33:31. > :33:35.tonne of bricks. Maria Caulfield, I'm struggling to understand, given

:33:36. > :33:37.the problems the NHS faces, particularly in our hospitals, what

:33:38. > :33:42.this has got to do with the solution? Obviously there are GP

:33:43. > :33:47.practices that are working, you know, over and above the hours. But

:33:48. > :33:52.there are some GP practices, we know from National Audit Office, there

:33:53. > :33:55.are particular black sports -- blackspots in the country that only

:33:56. > :33:59.offer services for three hours a week. That's causing problems if

:34:00. > :34:04.they cannot get to see a GP they will go and use A Nobody is

:34:05. > :34:07.saying that this measure would solve problems at A, it would address

:34:08. > :34:12.one small part of its top blog we shouldn't be starting this, as I

:34:13. > :34:15.keep saying, please to this from solving the problems at A We

:34:16. > :34:19.should be starting it from solving the problems of the patients in

:34:20. > :34:25.their totality, the best place they should go, not from A This really

:34:26. > :34:28.upsets me, as a GP I am there to be a proxy A doctor. I am a GP, a

:34:29. > :34:33.highly skilled doctor, looking after highly skilled doctor, looking after

:34:34. > :34:39.patients from cradle to grave across the physical, psychological and

:34:40. > :34:42.social, I am not an A doctor. I don't disagree with that, nobody is

:34:43. > :34:47.saying that GPs are not working hard enough. You just did, actually,

:34:48. > :34:53.about some of them. In some practices, what we need to see, it's

:34:54. > :34:55.not just GPs in GP surgeries, it is advanced nurse practitioners,

:34:56. > :34:59.pharmacists. It doesn't necessarily need to be all on the GPs. I think

:35:00. > :35:05.advanced nurse practitioners are in short supply. Position associate or

:35:06. > :35:09.go to hospital, -- physician associates. We have very few

:35:10. > :35:12.trainees, junior doctors in general practice, unlike hospitals, which

:35:13. > :35:17.tend to have some slack with the junior doctor community and

:35:18. > :35:20.workforce. This isn't an argument, this is about saying, let's stop

:35:21. > :35:26.looking at the National health system as a National hospital

:35:27. > :35:30.system. GPs tomorrow will see about 1.3 million patients. That is a lot

:35:31. > :35:35.of thoughtful. A lot of activity with no resources. If you wanted the

:35:36. > :35:39.GPs to behave better, in your terms, when you allocated more money to

:35:40. > :35:42.GPs, part of the reforms, because that's where it went, shouldn't you

:35:43. > :35:47.have targeted it more closely to where they want to operate? That is

:35:48. > :35:51.exactly what the Prime Minister is saying, extra funding is being made

:35:52. > :35:55.available by GPs to extend hours and services. If certain GP practices

:35:56. > :35:59.cannot do that, the money will follow the patient to where they

:36:00. > :36:03.move onto. We have no doctors to do it. I was on a coach last week, the

:36:04. > :36:06.coach driver stopped in the service station for an hour, they were

:36:07. > :36:15.stopping for a rest. We cannot do it. Even if you gave us millions

:36:16. > :36:17.more money, and thankfully NHS is recognising that we need a solution

:36:18. > :36:20.through the five-day week, we haven't got the doctors to deliver

:36:21. > :36:23.this. It would take a while to get them? That's my point, that's why we

:36:24. > :36:26.need to be using all how care professional. Even if you got this

:36:27. > :36:31.right, would it make a difference to what many regard as the crisis in

:36:32. > :36:34.our hospitals? I think it would. If you look at patients, they just want

:36:35. > :36:39.to go to a service that will address the problems. In Scotland for

:36:40. > :36:43.example, pharmacists have their own patient list. Patients go and see

:36:44. > :36:47.the pharmacists first. There are lots of conditions, for example if

:36:48. > :36:51.you want anticoagulants, you don't necessarily need to see a doctor, a

:36:52. > :36:55.pharmacist can manage that and free up the doctor in other ways. The

:36:56. > :36:58.Prime Minister has said that if things do not change she is

:36:59. > :37:03.threatening to reduce funding to doctors who do not comply. Can you

:37:04. > :37:06.both agree, that is probably an empty threat, that's not going to

:37:07. > :37:11.happen? I hope it's an empty threat. We're trying our best. People like

:37:12. > :37:14.me in my profession, the seniors in our profession, are really trying to

:37:15. > :37:17.pull up morale and get people into general practice, which is a

:37:18. > :37:23.wonderful profession, absolutely wonderful place to be. But slapping

:37:24. > :37:27.us off and telling us that we are lazy really doesn't help. I really

:37:28. > :37:32.don't think anybody is doing that. We have run out of time, but I'm

:37:33. > :37:34.certain that we will be back to the subject before this winter is out.

:37:35. > :37:36.It's just gone 11:35am, you're watching the Sunday Politics.

:37:37. > :37:39.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now

:37:40. > :37:49.Hello and welcome to Sunday Politics in Northern Ireland.

:37:50. > :37:53.It started with a financial scandal and looks set to end with Stormont

:37:54. > :37:59.So just how damaged are the political

:38:00. > :38:01.institutions by this crisis - and will an election

:38:02. > :38:06.I'm joined by Alliance Leader, Naomi Long, the Ulster Unionists'

:38:07. > :38:09.Philip Smith, and the SDLP's Nichola Mallon.

:38:10. > :38:12.And with their thoughts on all the week's political dramas

:38:13. > :38:14.are the Political Editor of the News Letter,

:38:15. > :38:20.Sam McBride, and the columnist Fionnuala O'Connor...

:38:21. > :38:24.So, despite James Brokenshire's offer of talks this weekend,

:38:25. > :38:27.it still looks a near certainty that an Assembly election

:38:28. > :38:31.The Secretary of State is expected to make that call

:38:32. > :38:33.at 5 o'clock tomorrow - exactly a week after

:38:34. > :38:35.Martin McGuinness resigned from his post as Deputy First

:38:36. > :38:38.This is what Mr Brokenshire said to Andrew Marr

:38:39. > :38:50.A clear indication and the increasing likelihood is that we are

:38:51. > :38:55.moving towards an election. Obviously I would be considering the

:38:56. > :38:58.position at that point in time, my statutory responsibility is to call

:38:59. > :39:03.an election but that means there needs to be a campaign of 25 working

:39:04. > :39:07.days. And would really encourage the parties themselves to think about

:39:08. > :39:10.these big issues on how they conduct their campaign and how we can build

:39:11. > :39:12.things back together again once it is concluded.

:39:13. > :39:19.Well I'm joined now by Philip Smith from the Ulster Unionist Party,

:39:20. > :39:21.Nichola Mallon from the SDLP and the Alliance

:39:22. > :39:29.Welcome to you all. Philip Smith, your party leader said back in

:39:30. > :39:35.October that if you vote for Mike, you get Colum, vote Colum and you

:39:36. > :39:40.get Mike... How is the coming along? We are in a situation where the

:39:41. > :39:43.competence and functionality of the DUP and Sinn Fein government...

:39:44. > :39:48.There is a fork in the road and people are being given a clear

:39:49. > :39:52.choice. Do they want more of the same? Do they want more dysfunction

:39:53. > :39:56.or scandal? Or do they want real change for Northern Ireland? It's

:39:57. > :40:00.every all challenge ahead and we are confident that we can provide the

:40:01. > :40:05.auto that if government. Is that the Ulster Unionist Party as a package

:40:06. > :40:11.providing the alternative government? Is that where you go to

:40:12. > :40:15.the doorsteps with your big idea? We have a brand and what we are putting

:40:16. > :40:21.forward to the people... What about vote Colum and get Mike and vice

:40:22. > :40:24.versa? Has it gone away? We need an alternative. The DUP and Sinn Fein

:40:25. > :40:30.have failed the people of Northern Ireland and the RHI scandal

:40:31. > :40:35.highlights it up in lights. But what is the alternative? Is it the

:40:36. > :40:41.opposition working together as a team and asking for people to vote

:40:42. > :40:47.for the Ulster Unionist Party Party and the SDLP as a package? You've

:40:48. > :40:53.abandoned what Mike Nesbitt said at the party conference? No... It

:40:54. > :40:58.cannot be both! We are standing as the UUP. The SDLP and Nicola will

:40:59. > :41:02.speak for her party, they are a party in their own right, we are

:41:03. > :41:05.putting ourselves up as an alternative government. As someone

:41:06. > :41:09.bringing the latest candidates in this election they move forward and

:41:10. > :41:13.offer real experience, not career politicians with experience of

:41:14. > :41:17.business and running organisations and professionals in the public and

:41:18. > :41:21.private sector. Have relations between the UUP and SDLP broken down

:41:22. > :41:26.as they appear to have broken down between Sinn Fein and the DUP?

:41:27. > :41:29.Absolutely not, I do not think you can overestimate how dysfunctional

:41:30. > :41:35.the relationship is between the DUP and Sinn Fein but at the party

:41:36. > :41:39.conference, my party leader was very clear. We are two distinct political

:41:40. > :41:44.parties and have different positions on a number of issues but where

:41:45. > :41:48.there are areas of commonality we can work together. In the past

:41:49. > :41:51.number of months we've shown in health and housing and property that

:41:52. > :41:55.we can bring motions together and work together. But fundamentally, we

:41:56. > :41:58.have shown we can work together based on respect, and I think that

:41:59. > :42:03.is the fundamental difference but we will both go into this election... I

:42:04. > :42:09.will stand as an SDLP candidate on and SDLP manifesto, Philip Smith and

:42:10. > :42:13.his colleagues will be doing the same but afterwards, when we go into

:42:14. > :42:17.negotiations, like every party we have a different position that can

:42:18. > :42:22.we work with Ulster Unionist Party the Alliance crushed at yes, we can

:42:23. > :42:26.work with any party. But I'm just trying to get a handle on what Mike

:42:27. > :42:39.Nesbitt meant in an election when he said that. The SDLP and the UUP have

:42:40. > :42:42.not had the knot. There are areas of commonality and consensus in some

:42:43. > :42:47.issues surrounding health and housing and property, we will work

:42:48. > :42:50.together... Would you like SDLP voters to transfer? Is that the kind

:42:51. > :42:54.of thing that needs to happen to make the breakthrough you've been

:42:55. > :42:57.telling us about? We will be asking voters to cast a vote and hold

:42:58. > :43:02.accountable of the politicians before them, we will ask people,

:43:03. > :43:05.please, don't be so disillusioned and frustrated and angry that you

:43:06. > :43:09.stay at home because what you had in the last ten years isn't good enough

:43:10. > :43:15.and you deserve better. That is the platform that we will stand on and

:43:16. > :43:20.after the negotiations it is clear that we will be willing to work with

:43:21. > :43:23.other parties and fundamental to that is the reconciliation project

:43:24. > :43:28.and a relationship based on respect. That is something that has sadly and

:43:29. > :43:32.damagingly been missing from the two parties in the executive. Naomi

:43:33. > :43:34.Long, there's been a lot of talk about opposition parties working

:43:35. > :43:39.together, where does the Alliance party fit into this at the moment?

:43:40. > :43:43.What do you make of the two main opposition parties? Tell me if you

:43:44. > :43:46.think I'm right, putting some distance between themselves in terms

:43:47. > :43:50.of relationships? At the end of the day, when I took over as leader, I

:43:51. > :43:55.said vote for Alliance and you get Alliance, that is the platform that

:43:56. > :43:59.we go to elections on. This fallacy that has arisen, that in some way

:44:00. > :44:04.opposition parties in the motor pool come together and form a grand

:44:05. > :44:07.coalition, a big party, standing for the electorate, is undemocratic. I

:44:08. > :44:16.have suffered at the hand of an electoral pact, I do not think they

:44:17. > :44:19.are healthy for democracy but I do think that by working together on

:44:20. > :44:22.practical issues we can increase the number of people who turn out and we

:44:23. > :44:24.will encourage people who do that to come forward and do that and we will

:44:25. > :44:26.transfer them to progressive politicians who want to make a

:44:27. > :44:30.difference in Northern Ireland, that is how the PR system works and how

:44:31. > :44:35.we will deliver change in the executive. In terms of opposition,

:44:36. > :44:38.it does not matter if you are official or unofficial opposition,

:44:39. > :44:41.the only difference is whether you get paid for it. We date but we are

:44:42. > :44:47.still doing the job. We are still holding the government to account --

:44:48. > :44:54.we do not. We can still challenge the DUP. We have seen DUP ministers

:44:55. > :44:59.treating their ministries and public finances like it is a slush fund.

:45:00. > :45:04.Sinn Fein have not abled them in that, as long as they also get their

:45:05. > :45:08.cut. That is not acceptable. Now, both of them are trying to reframe

:45:09. > :45:13.the election into an orange and green election when it is not about

:45:14. > :45:15.that but about accountability and competence and about delivering for

:45:16. > :45:19.the people of Northern Ireland. That is the pitch we are putting to

:45:20. > :45:23.people when the election is called and what I believe people want to

:45:24. > :45:28.see and there is every opportunity for change. I think we have to grasp

:45:29. > :45:31.that. How do you, in the Alliance party, exploit division between the

:45:32. > :45:34.two main parties who have failed to work in the government together in

:45:35. > :45:38.the way that they said they would, otherwise we would not be in the

:45:39. > :45:41.situation that we are in. While at the same time not injuring

:45:42. > :45:46.cooperation and working towards a shared society which is at the heart

:45:47. > :45:50.of your message? We are not out to exploit anything but put a positive

:45:51. > :45:54.message and alternative in. The failure of the DUP and Sinn Fein to

:45:55. > :45:59.make this executive function is written large and has collapsed

:46:00. > :46:02.after seven months. The only executives which survived without

:46:03. > :46:06.suspension are those in which there were Alliance ministers. If people

:46:07. > :46:10.want to look at where competence and stability has come from, they can

:46:11. > :46:14.trace it back to when Alliance was in government doing the job. We

:46:15. > :46:19.could not go into government in the context of last May because when we

:46:20. > :46:22.went and pointed out the very things that have unhinged the executive,

:46:23. > :46:25.the lack of accountability and the abuse of the petition of concern,

:46:26. > :46:31.the dirty dealings with coloured mirror truism.

:46:32. > :46:41.-- the paramilitary. After this election, we would consider going to

:46:42. > :46:44.any executive that is willing to front up to those issues and begin

:46:45. > :46:48.dealing with them and reconciliation, deal with division

:46:49. > :46:55.in society. The scandal of all of this? We are arguing about ?20

:46:56. > :47:01.million a year for 20 years being squandered on RHI and the cost of

:47:02. > :47:05.division, the most... The lowest estimate is ?100 million per year.

:47:06. > :47:10.If that is not a scandal worth voting on, I don't know what is. The

:47:11. > :47:14.DUP is making a great deal about the party not being compliant Unionists

:47:15. > :47:18.or a rule over Unionists, taking a swipe at your party, how do you

:47:19. > :47:23.persuade people you will stand for the union while wanting to work

:47:24. > :47:29.closely with the SDLP? A party which has already reminded people that if

:47:30. > :47:33.the devolution process does not work, then it favours the

:47:34. > :47:38.reintroduction, or the introduction, of joint authority? The DUP showed

:47:39. > :47:48.on Wednesday over 24 hours... I disagreed with the first decision

:47:49. > :47:57.but fundamentally, this election is about trust and putting country

:47:58. > :48:00.before party. He scandal of RHI, we are seeing those chickens coming

:48:01. > :48:05.home to roost, in terms of the impact on having no budget, and the

:48:06. > :48:09.terrible cuts likely to fall... This is not good to have an election

:48:10. > :48:13.about RHI but we can see the main party shaping up to make it exactly

:48:14. > :48:17.the same battle ground it always is. We've seen it over the last few

:48:18. > :48:22.days? It suits their agenda but we are going to keep the focus on the

:48:23. > :48:26.incompetence and dysfunction and scandal after scandal... But do you

:48:27. > :48:31.generally believe that they will cast their vote based on issues like

:48:32. > :48:35.RHI, competence to govern, rather than the old sectarian issues of

:48:36. > :48:39.orange and green? For the first time, people are coming up to me in

:48:40. > :48:44.shops and on the street and telling them about their anger at this and

:48:45. > :48:49.they will change how they voted, and they will punish the DUP for their

:48:50. > :48:53.incompetence. Whether it will come through a campaign, we will see but

:48:54. > :48:57.there is anger there and I would say to people that if you are angry,

:48:58. > :49:01.rightly so, channel it into voting for change. And bringing competent

:49:02. > :49:05.governments that everyone can support in Northern Ireland. And

:49:06. > :49:12.what may happen is people channel that anger by not voting whenever

:49:13. > :49:16.the polls are opened? That is the big challenge for all of us. We all

:49:17. > :49:19.know that there is public Angharad there. And we know that the people

:49:20. > :49:25.are frustrated but we have to say, it does not always have to be like

:49:26. > :49:29.this. You've hired incompetence over ten years -- anger out there. It

:49:30. > :49:33.does not come up over night... With all due respect, if you've had that

:49:34. > :49:38.over ten years, that's not good news for the STL P. Up until recently,

:49:39. > :49:41.they were part of that administration? I would take anyone

:49:42. > :49:49.on to talk about the SDLP's record in government. Despite immense

:49:50. > :49:58.pressure and four Alex Attwood, who build more social housing than any

:49:59. > :50:02.other minister, I will stand and have a debate with anyone about the

:50:03. > :50:05.STL P's track record... But nationalist voters may think that at

:50:06. > :50:16.the end of the day, they may fear that Unionists will still support

:50:17. > :50:21.the DLP on voting day and they could hold their noses and vote for Sinn

:50:22. > :50:28.Fein rather than risk supporting the STL P. People can be motivated out

:50:29. > :50:32.of fear and that is why they deploy every election as a tactic but

:50:33. > :50:37.people have been lied to. We were told that this was a wonderful

:50:38. > :50:39.executive doing wonderful thing, but they murdered each other in their

:50:40. > :50:45.manifestos in the last election, they brought the government

:50:46. > :50:48.programme forward, and it was heralded as a success. Several weeks

:50:49. > :50:52.ago they issued a statement about how they were doing a wonderful job

:50:53. > :50:56.and then we find out that it was a sham and it has been dysfunctional.

:50:57. > :51:01.They were trying to pull the wool over the public 's eyes. People have

:51:02. > :51:04.woken up and taken notice. They have the chance to change it. There's

:51:05. > :51:09.talk about Brexit which will be the backdrop for the whole election

:51:10. > :51:19.campaign, it seems to be the case that Theresa May is shaping up to

:51:20. > :51:23.support hard Brexit. Gray there are two things we can learn, the risk to

:51:24. > :51:28.Northern Ireland's future and how we can do business and connect with

:51:29. > :51:32.Europe and develop the economy. How we can protect those things that we

:51:33. > :51:36.hold dear and how we protect the institutions. They are under threat

:51:37. > :51:38.because of corruption and cronyism which is that the heart of

:51:39. > :51:44.government but they are also under threat because our constitutional

:51:45. > :51:47.position and relationships with the Republic of violent are altered

:51:48. > :51:51.beyond the control and wishes of the electorate of Northern Ireland which

:51:52. > :51:54.is a huge threat. If James Brokenshire wants to represent

:51:55. > :52:00.Northern Ireland that the table when it comes to Brecht said, he has to

:52:01. > :52:05.stop behaving like that -- the Republic of Ireland. However you

:52:06. > :52:11.want to frame the election, it proves that it is possible to shock

:52:12. > :52:15.even the most un-shockable people buy a result when you have the

:52:16. > :52:18.ballot box on your side and people want to make a difference and this

:52:19. > :52:24.time they have the opportunity to do so. We are very clear and we have

:52:25. > :52:28.said, categorically to the secretary of state, that Article 50 cannot be

:52:29. > :52:32.triggered in the absence of us having a government. We do not have

:52:33. > :52:35.the faith... We do not know if the British Cabinet would agree with

:52:36. > :52:43.that assessment but at the end of the day, London makes that call.

:52:44. > :52:47.You've asked me for the SDLP views and that is what it is. What about

:52:48. > :52:51.the Secretary of State and what did they say in response? He said that

:52:52. > :52:55.he was listening and that was the level of commitment that we've got.

:52:56. > :52:58.This is a huge legal challenge... Is huge political challenge. There is

:52:59. > :53:05.no plan within this executive or from the Tory government. It's

:53:06. > :53:08.another example of the dysfunctionality of the executive,

:53:09. > :53:11.they've had months to put a Brexit plan in place and have totally

:53:12. > :53:15.failed and that is why we need to see change and combatant and we need

:53:16. > :53:16.a new government for Northern Ireland. Thank you all very much

:53:17. > :53:19.indeed. Now - there was no shortage

:53:20. > :53:21.of material competing for inclusion Doing his best to squeeze it

:53:22. > :53:36.all in - here's Stephen Walker... There was high drama at Stormont as

:53:37. > :53:40.the RHI controversy brought resignation and repercussions. I

:53:41. > :53:47.believe that today is the time to call a halt to the DUP's Ireland.

:53:48. > :53:51.I've no doubt that if the election proceeds, it would be a brutal

:53:52. > :53:56.election. The London and Dublin governments expect an election...

:53:57. > :54:00.The reality remains, the high probability remains that we are

:54:01. > :54:05.heading towards an election. An election is likely, and I say it as

:54:06. > :54:09.we move towards the end of the week. That scenario is now even more

:54:10. > :54:13.likely. In the political fallout there was an agreement that the

:54:14. > :54:18.bedroom tax was still off the table. I also say to the DUP that there

:54:19. > :54:24.will not be a bedroom tax... And there was a DUP adjournment as

:54:25. > :54:27.funding was restored to an Irish language bursary scheme. Sinn Fein

:54:28. > :54:34.are using this issue to distract from all of the other issues and I

:54:35. > :54:36.felt it was damage -- damaging to the Irish language...

:54:37. > :54:38.Stephen Walker looking back over a busy week.

:54:39. > :54:41.Now, it's time to hear from my guests of the day -

:54:42. > :54:44.Fionnuala O'Connor and Sam McBride...

:54:45. > :54:50.Welcome to the both of you. James Brokenshire is saying that it looks

:54:51. > :54:54.inevitable that we are heading towards an election. But there is a

:54:55. > :54:57.lot of business to get through the assembly tomorrow? It will be a

:54:58. > :55:02.momentous day at the assembly tomorrow, three items of business

:55:03. > :55:06.and any one of which would be pretty exceptional. They are all going to

:55:07. > :55:14.be pushed through in a late sitting, there is no time limit on the RHI

:55:15. > :55:19.law which the economy minister, I almost said the finance minister,

:55:20. > :55:22.Simon Hamilton, is bringing forward. It's the first time the assembly has

:55:23. > :55:26.had the chance to get stuck into this and it's a privilege for people

:55:27. > :55:31.to speak candidly and we might see revelations. Maybe not but will Sinn

:55:32. > :55:35.Fein turn up and support the legislation? Will they put a brake

:55:36. > :55:39.on the costs or so, is too late, we cannot put forward... Put through

:55:40. > :55:44.the assembly something that is so open to legal challenges at the last

:55:45. > :55:47.minute. This challenge to the Speaker, will they use a petition of

:55:48. > :55:52.concern to block it? I don't see great merit in them doing that. It's

:55:53. > :55:55.clear he's lost the confidence of the chamber regardless of whether

:55:56. > :55:59.they technically block the motion and of course, this whole issue of

:56:00. > :56:02.whether Sinn Fein will, at the last minute, in some way back down and

:56:03. > :56:06.put in the Deputy First Minister. It seems unlikely but the formal death

:56:07. > :56:13.knell for the executive will come if they do not do that. It's shaping up

:56:14. > :56:17.to be a hugely significant day in the hell, as sunset. A lot of

:56:18. > :56:23.business to get through and some people will certainly want to -- a

:56:24. > :56:27.significant day on the Hill. We will hear from a lot of politicians

:56:28. > :56:34.talking about important issues but all in the mouth of an election?

:56:35. > :56:38.That's right and it comes down to people who still believe that there

:56:39. > :56:40.is credibility and an institution on the Hill, if people can believe in

:56:41. > :56:50.anything momentous coming from storm -- from Stormont, it did not start

:56:51. > :56:55.with the financial scandal but started a long way back. The mood

:56:56. > :57:03.and the anger that Sinn Fein is channelling now and will exploit in

:57:04. > :57:06.an election is a long-running realisation that Unionists had not

:57:07. > :57:11.bought into power-sharing and will not play by the rules of the 1998

:57:12. > :57:15.agreement or the subsequent reworkings of the agreement, that

:57:16. > :57:20.there is no Unionist acceptance to work political power-sharing in a

:57:21. > :57:23.real way and Sinn Fein... I did not think that they would pull the plug.

:57:24. > :57:29.I thought that they could not, but they did and it came to the point

:57:30. > :57:32.where their people were telling them and the National community were

:57:33. > :57:37.telling them that they had no belief in Stormont or putting it back up

:57:38. > :57:40.again. You don't want to get into an argument about semantics but despite

:57:41. > :57:44.those concerns on that range of issues that you referred to,

:57:45. > :57:49.nonetheless, the train was kept on the rails. It was the spotlight on

:57:50. > :57:53.December the 2nd, it cast the light onto the RHI scandal and that is

:57:54. > :57:56.where the crisis erupted? Because Sinn Fein did believe that they had

:57:57. > :58:02.to stay in there because they believed it was there project and an

:58:03. > :58:07.all Ireland project and if they walked out of Stormont it would look

:58:08. > :58:15.bad in the cell. Martin McGuinness bit his tongue until he could not

:58:16. > :58:18.any more. It does not mean that they were clean or the way through but

:58:19. > :58:23.there may still be something to emerge but I do notice the word

:58:24. > :58:28."Corruption", Naomi Long used it well and Martin McGuinness used it a

:58:29. > :58:31.few weeks back and Gerry Adams has used since. I think fashion fame

:58:32. > :58:36.must feel fairly confident that there is not anything about to

:58:37. > :58:40.emerge -- Sinn Fein. Which would damage their reputation in the last

:58:41. > :58:44.few years. They may feel they have to get out because the DUP will be

:58:45. > :58:48.more damaged again. There are fundamental issues for Sinn Fein,

:58:49. > :58:52.they had a bad election last year, losing one seat. A modest loss but

:58:53. > :58:57.it was nonetheless a loss. They did not really listen to their

:58:58. > :59:00.electorate, they did not really get anything but they are telling the

:59:01. > :59:04.electorate that they wanted gay marriage and the Irish language act,

:59:05. > :59:09.all of these things and these wearable DUP people did not give it

:59:10. > :59:16.to us. They did not negotiate... Because the DUP would not -- these

:59:17. > :59:22.horrible DUP people... They never saw the need to negotiate because

:59:23. > :59:26.they had a commanding majority... There's an element of political

:59:27. > :59:34.reality to the larger electoral fortune of the DUP but the nuclear

:59:35. > :59:38.option which Sinn Fein deployed was open to them seven months ago. Now

:59:39. > :59:43.they say that they would go back into talks process where if they do

:59:44. > :59:47.not get what they want there would not be an assembly. It is seven

:59:48. > :59:51.months ago... A quick word about what we saw in terms of the

:59:52. > :59:57.opposition parties, the SDLP said that they would work closely with

:59:58. > :00:01.the DUP, did you get a sense of a close working relationship between

:00:02. > :00:08.the two Russia as we get towards an election campaign... -- between the

:00:09. > :00:16.two? As we get towards an election campaign. Is it La La Land? Umm, no.

:00:17. > :00:21.I was struck by this fine performances from all three people.

:00:22. > :00:26.Philip Smith stuck with that, if they hopeless thing to reply to, but

:00:27. > :00:33.Nicola is shop on her feet and Naomi Long did well. But the difficulty is

:00:34. > :00:39.preparing new faces, the SDLP, with bright young people, changing

:00:40. > :00:40.towards Europe and they need that with James Brokenshire and, we will

:00:41. > :00:44.negotiate for you. Thank you to both Now it's back to Andrew.

:00:45. > :00:45.of you. Thanks to you both -

:00:46. > :00:49.now back to Andrew in London. Now, if anyone thought Donald Trump

:00:50. > :00:51.would tone things down after the American election

:00:52. > :01:02.campaign, they may have The period where he has been

:01:03. > :01:06.President-elect will make them think again. The inauguration is coming up

:01:07. > :01:07.on Friday. Never has the forthcoming

:01:08. > :01:09.inauguration of a president been In a moment, we'll talk

:01:10. > :01:13.to a man who knows Mr Trump But first, let's have a look

:01:14. > :01:17.at the press conference Mr Trump gave on Wednesday,

:01:18. > :01:19.in which he took the opportunity to rubbish reports that Russia has

:01:20. > :01:21.obtained compromising information You are attacking our

:01:22. > :01:37.news organisation. Can you give us a chance,

:01:38. > :01:42.you are attacking our news organisation, can you give us

:01:43. > :01:45.a chance to ask a question, sir? As far as Buzzfeed,

:01:46. > :01:51.which is a failing pile of garbage, writing it, I think they're

:01:52. > :01:55.going to suffer the consequences. Does anyone really

:01:56. > :01:58.believe that story? I'm also very much of

:01:59. > :02:01.a germaphobe, by the way. If Putin likes Donald Trump,

:02:02. > :02:03.guess what, folks, that's called The only ones that care about my tax

:02:04. > :02:11.returns are the reporters, OK? Do you not think the American

:02:12. > :02:26.public is concerned? The Wiggo, Donald Trump at his first

:02:27. > :02:28.last conference. The Can will he change as President? Because he

:02:29. > :02:33.hasn't changed in the run-up to being inaugurated? I don't think he

:02:34. > :02:36.will commit he doesn't see any point in changing. Why would he change

:02:37. > :02:41.from the personality that just one, as he just said, I just one. All of

:02:42. > :02:43.the bleeding-heart liberals can wail and brush their teeth and say how

:02:44. > :02:48.ghastly that all this, Hillary should have won and so on, but he

:02:49. > :02:51.has got an incredible mandate. Remember, Trump has the House

:02:52. > :02:55.committee has the Senate, he will have the Supreme Court. He has

:02:56. > :02:59.incredible power right now. He doesn't have to listen to anybody. I

:03:00. > :03:03.spoke to him a couple of weeks ago specifically about Twitter, I asked

:03:04. > :03:08.him what the impact was of Twitter. He said, I have 60 million people

:03:09. > :03:12.following me on Twitter. I was able to bypass mainstream media, bypass

:03:13. > :03:17.all modern political convention and talk directly to potential voters.

:03:18. > :03:20.Secondly, I can turn on the TV in the morning, I can see a rival

:03:21. > :03:25.getting all of the airtime, and I can fire off a tweet, for free, as a

:03:26. > :03:29.marketing man he loves that, and, boom, I'm on the news agenda again.

:03:30. > :03:33.He was able to use that magnificently. Twitter to him didn't

:03:34. > :03:44.cost him a dollar. He is going to carry on tweeting in the last six

:03:45. > :03:48.weeks, he was not sleeping. Trump has never had an alcoholic drink a

:03:49. > :03:53.cigarette or a drug. He is a fit by the 70, he has incredible energy and

:03:54. > :03:56.he is incredibly competitive. At his heart, he is a businessman. If you

:03:57. > :04:02.look at him as a political ideologue, you completely missed the

:04:03. > :04:04.point of trouble. Don't take what he says literally, look upon it as a

:04:05. > :04:08.negotiating point that he started from, and try to do business with

:04:09. > :04:12.him as a business person would, and you may be presently surprised so

:04:13. > :04:17.pleasantly surprised. He treats the press and the media entirely

:04:18. > :04:24.differently to any other politician or main politician in that normally

:04:25. > :04:28.the politicians try to get the media off a particular subject, or they

:04:29. > :04:31.try to conciliate with the media. He just comes and punches the media in

:04:32. > :04:38.the nose when he doesn't like them. This could catch on, you know! You

:04:39. > :04:44.are absolutely right, for a start, nobody could accuse him of letting

:04:45. > :04:47.that victory go to his head. You know, he won't say, I will now be

:04:48. > :04:51.this lofty president. He's exactly the same as he was before. What is

:04:52. > :04:55.fascinating is his Laois and ship with the media. I haven't met, and

:04:56. > :04:59.I'm sure you haven't, met a party leader who is obsessed with the

:05:00. > :05:05.media. But they pretend not to be. You know, they state, oh, somebody

:05:06. > :05:12.told me about a column, I didn't read it. He is utterly transparent

:05:13. > :05:16.in his obsession with the media, he doesn't pretend. How that plays out,

:05:17. > :05:20.who knows? It's a completely different dynamic than anyone has

:05:21. > :05:25.seen by. Like he is the issue, he has appointed an unusual Cabinet,

:05:26. > :05:28.that you could criticise in many ways. Nearly all of them are

:05:29. > :05:33.independent people in their own right. A lot of them are wealthy,

:05:34. > :05:36.too. They have their own views. They might not like what he tweaked at

:05:37. > :05:41.3am, and he does have to deal with his Cabinet now. Mad dog matters,

:05:42. > :05:47.now the Defence Secretary, he might not like what's said about China at

:05:48. > :05:51.three in morning - general matters. This is what gets very conjugated.

:05:52. > :05:54.We cannot imagine here in our political system any kind of

:05:55. > :05:57.appointments like this. Using the wouldn't have a line-up of

:05:58. > :06:00.billionaires of the kind of background that he has chosen -- you

:06:01. > :06:05.simply wouldn't have. But that won't stop him saying and reading what he

:06:06. > :06:08.thinks. Maybe it will cause him some internal issues when the following

:06:09. > :06:13.day he has the square rigged with whatever they think. But he's going

:06:14. > :06:20.to press ahead. Are we any clearer in terms of policy. I know policy

:06:21. > :06:23.hasn't featured hugely in this campaign of 2016. Do we have any

:06:24. > :06:30.really clear idea what Mr Trump is hoping to achieve? He has had some

:06:31. > :06:34.consistent theme going back over 25 years. One is a deep scepticism

:06:35. > :06:37.about international trade and the kind of deals that America has been

:06:38. > :06:41.doing over that period. It has been so consistent that is has been hard

:06:42. > :06:44.to spin as something that you say during the course of a campaign of

:06:45. > :06:48.something to get elected. Ultimately, Piers is correct, he

:06:49. > :06:51.won't change. When he won the election committee gave a relatively

:06:52. > :06:56.magnanimous beach. I thought his ego had been sated and he had got what

:06:57. > :06:59.he wanted. He will end up governing as is likely eccentric New York

:07:00. > :07:03.liberal and everything will be fine. In the recent weeks it has come to

:07:04. > :07:06.my attention that that might not be entirely true!

:07:07. > :07:10.LAUGHTER It is a real test of the American

:07:11. > :07:15.system, the Texan bouncers, the foreign policy establishment which

:07:16. > :07:19.is about to have the orthodoxies disrupted -- the checks and

:07:20. > :07:23.balances. I think he has completely ripped up the American political

:07:24. > :07:26.system. Washington as we know it is dead. From his garage do things his

:07:27. > :07:33.way, he doesn't care, frankly, what any of us thinks -- Trump is going

:07:34. > :07:39.to do things his way. If he can deliver for the people who voted for

:07:40. > :07:44.him who fault this disenfranchised, -- who voted for him who felt this

:07:45. > :07:48.disenfranchised. They voted accordingly. They want to see jobs

:07:49. > :07:52.and the economy in good shape, they want to feel secure. They want to

:07:53. > :07:57.feel that immigration has been tightened. If Trump can deliver on

:07:58. > :08:01.those main theme for the rust belt communities of America, I'm telling

:08:02. > :08:04.you, he will go down as a very successful president. All of the

:08:05. > :08:07.offensive rhetoric and the argy-bargy with CNN and whatever it

:08:08. > :08:15.may be will be completely irrelevant. Let me finish with a

:08:16. > :08:17.parochial question. Is it fair to say quite well disposed to this

:08:18. > :08:19.country? And that he would like, that he's up for a speedy

:08:20. > :08:26.free-trade, bilateral free-trade you'll? Think we have to be sensible

:08:27. > :08:30.as the country. Come Friday, he is the president of the United States,

:08:31. > :08:34.the most powerful man and well. He said to me that he feels half

:08:35. > :08:37.British, his mum was born and raised in Scotland until the age of 18, he

:08:38. > :08:41.loves British, his mother used to love watching the Queen, he feels

:08:42. > :08:46.very, you know, I would roll out the red carpet for Trump, let him eat

:08:47. > :08:52.Her Majesty. The crucial point for us as a country is coming -- let him

:08:53. > :08:56.me to Her Majesty. If we can do a speedy deal within an 18 month

:08:57. > :09:00.period, it really sends a message that well but we are back in the

:09:01. > :09:04.game, that is a hugely beneficial thing for this country. Well, a man

:09:05. > :09:11.whose advisers were indicating that maybe he should learn a few things

:09:12. > :09:14.from Donald Trump was Jeremy Corbyn. Yes, MBE. Mr Corbyn appeared on the

:09:15. > :09:18.Andrew Marr Show this morning. -- yes, indeed.

:09:19. > :09:20.If you don't win Copeland, and if you don't win

:09:21. > :09:21.Stoke-on-Trent Central, you're toast, aren't you?

:09:22. > :09:26.Our party is going to fight very hard in those elections,

:09:27. > :09:29.as we are in the local elections, to put those policies out there.

:09:30. > :09:32.It's an opportunity to challenge the Government on the NHS.

:09:33. > :09:34.It's an opportunity to challenge them on the chaos of Brexit.

:09:35. > :09:36.It's an opportunity to challenge them on the housing shortage.

:09:37. > :09:39.It's an opportunity to challenge them on zero-hours contracts.

:09:40. > :09:44.Is there ever a moment that you look in the mirror and think,

:09:45. > :09:47.you know what, I've done my best, but this might not be for me?

:09:48. > :09:49.I look in the mirror every day and I think,

:09:50. > :09:52.let's go out there and try and create a society where there

:09:53. > :09:54.are opportunities for all, where there aren't these terrible

:09:55. > :09:56.levels of poverty, where there isn't homelessness,

:09:57. > :09:59.where there are houses for all, and where young people aren't

:10:00. > :10:01.frightened of going to university because of the debts

:10:02. > :10:04.they are going to end up with at the end of their course.

:10:05. > :10:10.Mr Corbyn earlier this morning. Steve, would it be fair to say that

:10:11. > :10:14.the mainstream of the Labour Party has now come to the conclusion that

:10:15. > :10:17.they just have to let Mr Corbyn get on with it, that they are not going

:10:18. > :10:22.to try and influence what he does. They will continue to try and have

:10:23. > :10:27.their own views, but it's his show, it's up to him, if it's a mess, he

:10:28. > :10:31.has to live with it and we'll have clean hands? For now, yes. I think

:10:32. > :10:33.they made a mistake when he was first elected to start in some cases

:10:34. > :10:38.tweeting within seconds that it was going to be a disaster, this was

:10:39. > :10:41.Labour MPs. They made a complete mess of that attempted coup in the

:10:42. > :10:47.summer, which strengthened his position. And he did, it gave Corbyn

:10:48. > :10:51.the space with total legitimacy to say that part of the problem is,

:10:52. > :10:57.we're having this public Civil War. In keeping quiet, that disappeared

:10:58. > :11:02.as part of the explanation for why Labour and low in the polls. I think

:11:03. > :11:07.they are partly doing that. But they are also struggling, the so-called

:11:08. > :11:11.mainstream Labour MPs, to decide what the distinctive agenda is. It's

:11:12. > :11:15.one of the many differences with the 80s, where you had a group of people

:11:16. > :11:19.sure of what they believed in, they left to form the SDP. What's

:11:20. > :11:23.happening now is that they are leaving politics altogether. That is

:11:24. > :11:27.a crisis of social Democrats all across Europe, including the French

:11:28. > :11:35.Socialists, as we will find out later in the spring. Let Corbyn

:11:36. > :11:37.because then, that's the strategy. There is a weary and sometimes

:11:38. > :11:40.literal resignation from the moderates in the Labour Party. If

:11:41. > :11:42.you talk to them, they are no longer angry, they have always run out of

:11:43. > :11:45.steam to be angry about what's going on. They are just sort of tired and

:11:46. > :11:49.feel that they've just got to see this through now. I think the

:11:50. > :11:53.by-elections will be interesting. When Andrew Marr said, you're toast,

:11:54. > :11:58.and you? I thought, he's never posed! That was right. A quick

:11:59. > :12:03.thought from view? One thing Corbyn has in common with Trump is immunity

:12:04. > :12:11.to bad news. I think he can lose Copeland and lose Stoke, and as long

:12:12. > :12:12.as it is not a sequence of resignations and by-elections

:12:13. > :12:14.afterwards, resignations and by-elections

:12:15. > :12:17.afterwards, with maybe a dozen or 20 Labour MPs going, he can still enjoy

:12:18. > :12:23.what. It may be more trouble if Labour loses the United trade union

:12:24. > :12:25.elections. We are in a period of incredible unpredictability

:12:26. > :12:29.generally in global politics. If you look at the way the next year plays

:12:30. > :12:33.out, if for example brags it was a disaster and it starts to unravel

:12:34. > :12:36.very quickly, Theresa May is attached to that, clearly label

:12:37. > :12:40.would have a great opportunity potentially disease that higher

:12:41. > :12:45.ground, and when Eddie the Tories -- Labour would have an opportunity. Is

:12:46. > :12:50.Corbyn the right guy? We interviewed him, what struck me was that he

:12:51. > :12:54.talked about being from, a laughable comparison, but when it is really

:12:55. > :12:59.laughable is this - Hillary Clinton, what were the things she stood for,

:13:00. > :13:03.nobody really knew? What does Trump stand for? Everybody knew. Corbyn

:13:04. > :13:07.has the work-out four or five messages and bang, bang, bang. He

:13:08. > :13:09.could still be in business. Thank you for being with us.

:13:10. > :13:12.I'll be back at the same time next weekend.

:13:13. > :13:45.Remember - if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.

:13:46. > :13:48.The View holds politicians to account and we ask

:13:49. > :13:50.the questions that our audiences want answers to.

:13:51. > :13:54.We reflect what's happening in the political world but I think we also

:13:55. > :13:59.set the agenda in the interviews that we conduct on the programme.