:01:45. > :01:49.A health service under pressure - we ask the Minister at Edwin Poots
:01:49. > :01:59.Howard can recover. And will they or won't they? We
:01:59. > :01:59.
:01:59. > :28:52.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1613 seconds
:28:52. > :28:55.lookout the significance of the Hello, and welcome to the Sunday
:28:55. > :29:00.politics in Northern Ireland. It has been a difficulty here for the
:29:00. > :29:06.health minister. The deaths of four premature babies -- babies from
:29:06. > :29:09.pseudomonas, the crisis in Accident and Emergency, and the controversy
:29:09. > :29:16.over blood donation. Lifting the ban on gay people seems as far away
:29:16. > :29:21.as ever. The important right are the right
:29:21. > :29:26.of the person receiving the blood to have confidence the blood will
:29:26. > :29:30.not infect them with something else. A, the history of a handshake - as
:29:30. > :29:37.Martin McGuinness ponders, we look back as how -- at how history has
:29:37. > :29:45.been shaped by the joining of hands. And my studio guests, Sue Ramsey,
:29:45. > :29:51.chair of their health committee, and an County Omagh GP.
:29:51. > :29:54.He was described as brave for closing the city's Hospital ent E.
:29:54. > :29:58.But when things are drunk Edwin Poots was the man in the firing
:29:58. > :30:02.line. I spoke to the health minister on Friday and began by
:30:02. > :30:06.asking him how he reflects on the past 12 months. It has been an
:30:06. > :30:11.interesting time in my life. I regard it as a fantastic
:30:11. > :30:16.opportunity. I feel very privileged to do this job, and as their look
:30:17. > :30:22.back it has been idea of height and lows. This pseudomonas outbreak,
:30:22. > :30:25.for example, that was probably the lowest point. We had the challenge
:30:25. > :30:31.is about accident at a bridge at the department's, those were
:30:31. > :30:41.difficult things. -- we had challenges about Accident and
:30:41. > :30:42.
:30:42. > :30:45.Emergency departments. We recently got the state electronic care
:30:45. > :30:51.record, which will enable consultants to work more closely
:30:51. > :30:55.with GPs and have a more fluid cyst -- system within the health service.
:30:55. > :30:59.We will be opening the new hospital in the south-west this week. Those
:30:59. > :31:03.are really exciting and good things and it is great to be involved in
:31:03. > :31:08.those. When it comes to Accident and Emergency, there is a sense
:31:09. > :31:12.among health professionals you are backtracking on a commitment to the
:31:12. > :31:17.A&E hospital. Have you had your fingers burned over what happened
:31:17. > :31:26.with the City Hospital? I never made any -- any commitment
:31:26. > :31:30.to close Causeway Accident and Emergency. The Compton review
:31:30. > :31:34.suggested at least have, and that is on the list of potential
:31:34. > :31:38.closures. The Compton review recommended we would have five or
:31:38. > :31:42.seven hospitals, and people made an assumption that hospital may close
:31:42. > :31:47.as a result of that. I think it is important to maintain public
:31:47. > :31:50.confidence. Is the public confidence at the moment? There
:31:51. > :31:55.have been suggestions it is not safe, at the close Causeway
:31:55. > :32:00.Hospital, and those arguments were used about the city hospital when
:32:00. > :32:05.it closed. The hospitals are incompatible. City Hospital is one
:32:05. > :32:10.mile from the Royal. Because we is thought to miles from antrum and 30
:32:10. > :32:15.miles from another hospital. There was quite a challenge in getting
:32:15. > :32:18.people in emergency situations to that alternative force will have --
:32:18. > :32:24.to alternative facilities. The challenge we have with the causeway
:32:24. > :32:28.is that it retains the skill base and the amount of work that is
:32:28. > :32:34.required. I am putting it back to the people who manage that hospital,
:32:34. > :32:38.the clinicians within the hospital, and I have no desire to take
:32:38. > :32:42.services away from that facility. They need to demonstrate to me they
:32:42. > :32:47.can perform those services in a safe and sustainable and resilient
:32:47. > :32:51.away, and that is what needs to be done. There are some decisions
:32:51. > :32:56.coming up that you have to make. When will you decide on allowing
:32:56. > :33:01.gay people to donate blood or not? Interestingly enough, I have
:33:01. > :33:05.received two back pieces of correspondence this week. One was
:33:05. > :33:09.from my southern counterpart, James Riley, who is indicating they do
:33:09. > :33:15.not intend to change their position, which is a permanent deferral, and
:33:15. > :33:20.it is not just about HIV but other blood borne viruses. There was a
:33:20. > :33:23.second piece of work done recently by the European Council. It
:33:23. > :33:29.indicated the majority of states in Europe, which goes beyond the
:33:29. > :33:33.European Union, all 54 states would be opposed to moving away from a
:33:33. > :33:38.permanent deferral. I think the people who engage in higher risk
:33:38. > :33:42.sexual behaviour in general should be excluded from giving blood. If
:33:42. > :33:46.someone has sex with someone enough to cut or has sex with prostitutes,
:33:46. > :33:52.I am very reluctant about those people being able to give blood. I
:33:52. > :33:55.am certainly range it -- raising a whole range of areas. One of the
:33:55. > :33:59.things that is important is that we retain confidence in the system.
:33:59. > :34:03.This system has worked for many years, so to work away from
:34:03. > :34:08.something that is actually working, the old saying, if it isn't broke,
:34:08. > :34:12.don't fix it. But if people feel they are being discriminated
:34:12. > :34:16.against? The rights that are important are
:34:16. > :34:19.the rights of the person receiving the blood to have confidence that
:34:19. > :34:23.blood is not something that is going to infect them with something
:34:23. > :34:29.else. Is the blood not screened before it is passed on any way?
:34:29. > :34:33.The tears. There is some blood that comes in and has turned round very
:34:33. > :34:37.quickly, and there can be problems arising as a result of that.
:34:37. > :34:43.will you stop donations from England, Scotland and Wales? They
:34:43. > :34:47.do not have his ban. The first element of the screening
:34:47. > :34:54.is to remove people who engage in risky behaviour. The second element
:34:54. > :34:57.is the scientific element, and that will look at the blood itself. What
:34:57. > :35:02.we have actually works by removing people we engage in what is
:35:02. > :35:06.perceived as being risky behaviour and it actually works very well in
:35:06. > :35:10.the second element of the screening. By will receive blood from other
:35:10. > :35:15.areas whenever I mediate, the Republic of Ireland or other parts
:35:15. > :35:19.of the UK. -- whenever I needed. Aga officials advising this is a
:35:19. > :35:24.good idea, or is this how you feel about it?
:35:24. > :35:29.I have taken advice from a range of people. I have conflicting advice
:35:29. > :35:32.on it, which is part of the problem. Some people would say, we think we
:35:32. > :35:38.could go ahead with it, and others are saying we would prefer not to
:35:38. > :35:41.do that. That can be quite significant. How can you justify it
:35:41. > :35:49.went the minions of people who live in the rest of the UK are, in your
:35:49. > :35:52.opinion, were exposed to risk? It is not particularly difficult to
:35:52. > :35:56.justify whenever North America doesn't do it. The vast majority of
:35:56. > :36:00.Europe has said that they have no intention whatsoever of changing it.
:36:00. > :36:04.There are only a few countries in the world who have taken a similar
:36:04. > :36:12.line to the UK. When it comes to the future of the
:36:12. > :36:14.Health Ministry, the hunt is likely to be run again in the autumn
:36:14. > :36:18.because of the dissolution of the Department of Employment and
:36:18. > :36:23.learning. Will the DUP take on the health portfolio again?
:36:23. > :36:29.I would imagine so, unless someone else tries to take it before us. We
:36:29. > :36:32.have enjoyed -- we have a job to do. It is a big job. It is the largest
:36:32. > :36:35.department in Government. It has taken some time to turn it around
:36:35. > :36:39.and get it pointed in the right direction.
:36:39. > :36:42.So Sue Ramsey, you are chair of the health committee and it is your job
:36:42. > :36:46.to scrutinise his did -- his decisions. What is your view on
:36:46. > :36:51.blood decisions? My view is that he is bringing his
:36:51. > :36:54.own prejudices into play here. Edwin Poots, when it suits him,
:36:55. > :36:59.says that he takes his line from the British Government. You
:36:59. > :37:04.actually highlighted the fact that this ban does not exist in England,
:37:04. > :37:08.Scotland and Wales. He also highlighted that we have a robust
:37:08. > :37:11.screening programme. We are crying out for blood, it is an issue of
:37:11. > :37:17.equality and we have a screening programme to ensure every drop of
:37:17. > :37:21.blood is safe for people. He denies it is his own personal opinion, he
:37:21. > :37:26.admits there is conflicting advice, but as a committee can you change
:37:26. > :37:31.his mind? We will, we can ask for the reports
:37:31. > :37:35.he is referring to. He talks about parity, but he is breaking his
:37:35. > :37:40.parity with England, Scotland and Wales. It is a matter of equality.
:37:40. > :37:44.The issue is that blood is screened. We have a robust screening
:37:44. > :37:50.programme and we are crying out for blood donation. We have had to
:37:50. > :37:53.bring in blood from the UK because we need it. Anyone that is giving
:37:53. > :37:57.blood will be screened, so we did not go down this line of his own
:37:57. > :38:00.prejudice coming into play. let's look at some of the wider
:38:00. > :38:04.health issues. You come from our area which has
:38:04. > :38:09.lost its ENT services. That is having a knock-on effect in other
:38:09. > :38:19.parts of Northern Ireland. -- lost its Accident and Emergency services.
:38:19. > :38:22.
:38:22. > :38:26.We fought very hard in County -- format to save our services. We
:38:26. > :38:34.did highlight that it would put pressures on all the Govan hospital
:38:34. > :38:39.and the Ayr hospital. -- the earn hospital. That it -- the low point
:38:39. > :38:42.for me was the death of the gentleman in the Royal Hospital. It
:38:42. > :38:46.highlights that being E services are overstretched, and my own
:38:46. > :38:53.patient to complain when they attend the hospitals that they have
:38:53. > :38:57.very excessive times to wake. -- my own patient do complain. If a GP
:38:57. > :39:07.refers for assessment, many patients are asked to attend
:39:07. > :39:08.
:39:08. > :39:11.Accident and Emergency. The Erne Hospital Has an assessment unit
:39:11. > :39:15.where patients can be assessed and that is a better system. There is
:39:15. > :39:19.another side to it, isn't there? There are people in Accident and
:39:19. > :39:24.Emergency he should not be there. But is there then that not pressure
:39:24. > :39:27.on people like yourself to provide a service to stop people going to
:39:27. > :39:32.accident adamant that the in the first place?
:39:32. > :39:38.That is right, this is why there is call location between the accident
:39:38. > :39:43.and unedited apartment and the GP out-of-hours service. -- Accident
:39:43. > :39:46.and Emergency department. GPs are happy to treat General Medical
:39:46. > :39:51.cases to allow Accident and Emergency to be freed up for
:39:51. > :39:57.genuine emergencies. That is appropriate. It will give the
:39:57. > :40:01.patients a better service with shorter waiting times. We also --
:40:01. > :40:05.often hear that politics overrides the health service because people
:40:05. > :40:10.are looking over their shoulders for votes. Do you think that has
:40:10. > :40:14.come to an end? I am there to ensure my
:40:14. > :40:18.constituents get the best service they are entitled to. I am not
:40:18. > :40:22.coming up this from a political point of view. It is about ensuring
:40:22. > :40:26.that health is three at the point of delivery, there is a quality
:40:26. > :40:31.around the health services, and there is an issue with making a
:40:31. > :40:35.decision to close one hospital, the impact it has on other hospitals.
:40:35. > :40:39.For a long time we were not looking beyond the boundaries of health
:40:39. > :40:43.trusts. We need to look at the impact of a decision in one area
:40:43. > :40:47.and how that can have an impact on another of area.
:40:47. > :40:51.The you think it was wrong to close the city hospital?
:40:51. > :40:55.We are still told that is only a temporary decision, so I think they
:40:55. > :41:00.need to be honest with people. We have seen that the problems the
:41:00. > :41:09.Royal Hospital has been under. That is the system within hospital
:41:09. > :41:15.services. In politics, a handshake can help
:41:15. > :41:25.seal the deal or change the mood. But the timing has to be right. We
:41:25. > :41:30.
:41:30. > :41:33.have a report on the importance of Handshakes have provided some of
:41:33. > :41:39.the most seminal moments in political history, and not just in
:41:39. > :41:43.Ireland. Some gestures appear highly significant at the time and
:41:44. > :41:49.lead nowhere. I suppose the most famous example would be the
:41:49. > :41:55.handshake on the lawn of the White House between Yitzhak Rabin and
:41:55. > :42:00.Yasser Arafat. The peace process then went into the sand. That did
:42:01. > :42:05.not have a long lasting impact. There are other cases, I suppose.
:42:05. > :42:11.The most iconic one would be Nelson Mandela putting on that the
:42:11. > :42:14.Springbok jersey at the final of the World Cup in 1995.
:42:14. > :42:18.The sculpture, entitled reconciliation cannot was inspired
:42:18. > :42:25.by the end of the Second World War. It was unveiled at Stormont 12
:42:25. > :42:29.years ago by David Trimble, one of several symbolic axe at a difficult
:42:29. > :42:34.time in the peace process. Some gestures undoubtedly help to
:42:34. > :42:40.underpin the political process, but not everyone is impressed. These
:42:40. > :42:43.things are hyped for the optics, and sometimes for the gullible, to
:42:43. > :42:47.try and pretend there is more significant than what lies behind.
:42:47. > :42:54.I think that is not the real historical significance of any of
:42:54. > :42:58.that in a handshake, handshakes and back-slapping. We have seen that,
:42:58. > :43:02.Ian Paisley back-slapping Bertie Ahern, all of that.
:43:02. > :43:06.Traditionally, handshakes have been seminal. They are important, they
:43:06. > :43:10.show leadership and demonstrate growth in political maturity. But
:43:10. > :43:13.that kind of growth only comes with integrity, and I think the general
:43:13. > :43:18.public absolutely understand whether a gesture has integrity or
:43:18. > :43:23.not. The Queen's visit to the book last
:43:23. > :43:28.year and were gestures of reconciliation and respect mark a
:43:28. > :43:33.new age in Anglo-Irish relations. The visit was highly significant in
:43:33. > :43:38.terms of being the cherry on top of the final culmination of a process,
:43:38. > :43:42.it really kind of sealed the deal in saying that Britain and Ireland
:43:42. > :43:45.had a very different relationship. Here is a handshake that means a
:43:45. > :43:52.lot in Ballymena. The council has elected its first ever nationalist
:43:52. > :43:55.Mayor. Whatever the issue on the Sinn Fein's internal debate, most
:43:55. > :44:00.people believe Martin McGuinness should meet the Queen and so rather
:44:00. > :44:07.than later. The Queen went to the south of Ireland and was made very
:44:07. > :44:11.welcome, so why don't see why she should not be made welcome up here.
:44:11. > :44:17.They're supposed to be working together now, you know, and it is
:44:17. > :44:25.about time that Martin McGuinness met the Queen. I think it might be
:44:25. > :44:30.too early. For him or for her? For Martin. You think now is not
:44:30. > :44:34.the right time? Not right away. would just make people want to live
:44:34. > :44:39.together and agree more. You think it is that important if he was to
:44:39. > :44:42.make such a gesture? I think it would help. Copies of this
:44:42. > :44:46.sculpture have been installed in other countries where there has
:44:46. > :44:50.been division and conflict. Sinn Fein's Division once again will
:44:50. > :44:53.draw international attention to Northern Ireland and how our
:44:53. > :44:56.politicians deal with reconciliation.
:44:56. > :44:59.Sue Ramsey, obviously you party colleague highlighted on this
:44:59. > :45:02.programme last week that the continuing problems around this
:45:02. > :45:10.issue. When you think a final decision will be made by Martin
:45:10. > :45:13.McGuinness? It will be made by a our national Executive, so I don't
:45:13. > :45:16.want to pre-empt or speculate on what they will want to say. On the
:45:16. > :45:20.issue of handshakes, it was interesting to hear Jim Allister. I
:45:20. > :45:28.would be happy the day Jim Allister said good morning to me. There is a
:45:28. > :45:33.lot of work still to be done their. One day, me and Jim will actually
:45:33. > :45:38.have a cup of tea. Your party leader obviously shook hands with
:45:38. > :45:43.many different people back in the 1990s and in the early decade
:45:43. > :45:48.following, do you see this as the final piece of the jigsaw?
:45:48. > :45:53.I think so. I think Her Majesty the Queen blazed a trail in Anglo-Irish
:45:53. > :45:58.relations and demonstrated the need for reconciliation and the need to
:45:58. > :46:03.go forward positively. I think all of us being able to shake hands is
:46:03. > :46:08.the next step on that journey. He writes, fagging and the National
:46:08. > :46:18.Trust branded a disgrace. All end up weeks' work as Stephen Walker
:46:18. > :46:23.
:46:23. > :46:29.looks back in 60 seconds. Gay right Gay rights caused trouble with the
:46:29. > :46:34.Unionists. By day I grew up believing that same-sex marriage
:46:34. > :46:41.and Sensex relationships was not right.
:46:41. > :46:46.At Stormont, others had difficulty keeping quiet.
:46:46. > :46:50.Pilot wanted to shut down one of Belfast's imports. Conservationists
:46:50. > :46:55.took a swing at plan for a Gulf course, leaving some supporters
:46:55. > :46:58.teed off. -- a Gulf course. The National
:46:58. > :47:04.Trust should change their name to a national disgrace.
:47:04. > :47:09.Arlene Foster told the Co-op to but out of the flagging debate.
:47:09. > :47:19.At one MLA fluffed her lines. We will see if they're getting rid
:47:19. > :47:20.
:47:20. > :47:24.It is a big week in Enniskillen, obviously it will have an impact
:47:24. > :47:32.for people from our own, as well. Do you welcome the new St Helens
:47:32. > :47:42.and Whiston are I absolutely do. We need high-quality clinical
:47:42. > :47:43.
:47:43. > :47:47.services. I have no doubt the people of all map will support this
:47:47. > :47:50.fabulous new hospital. It represents state of-the-art
:47:50. > :47:57.technology and I hope we will recruit top nursing and consultancy
:47:57. > :48:01.staff. Is it an example of how we can make mature decisions, and on
:48:01. > :48:05.this occasion people and County our own missed out in favour of the
:48:05. > :48:07.people of County Fermanagh. We think this is a signal to the rest
:48:07. > :48:11.of Northern Ireland of how things will be in the future?
:48:11. > :48:16.I don't think the people will adopt a dog in the manger approach, if we
:48:16. > :48:21.don't get acute services we will not support Enniskillen. I don't
:48:21. > :48:25.think that will happen. We're riddled to get our own new local
:48:25. > :48:29.enhanced hospital by 2015. That will provide a lot of local
:48:29. > :48:34.services for the people and I think that many valuable services will be
:48:34. > :48:39.delivered locally, as it should be. It is difficult though. On the