:00:40. > :00:42.Morning folks, and welcome to the Sunday Politics.
:00:43. > :00:46.After Friday's failed coup, the crackdown in Turkey begins
:00:47. > :00:48.with thousands of arrests and threats of retribution,
:00:49. > :00:51.including the death penalty for rebels.
:00:52. > :00:53.What does the turmoil mean for Turkey's future,
:00:54. > :01:00.Nato and the fight against Islamic State?
:01:01. > :01:06.I wish you all the best and I am supporting you all the way. Do I get
:01:07. > :01:08.a hug? Jeremy Corbyn's confident
:01:09. > :01:11.that his fans will ensure he's re-elected - but he tells us
:01:12. > :01:13.that the rules of Labour's leadership election are unfair
:01:14. > :01:16.and the party's national executive She was a "Remainer"
:01:17. > :01:18.but Theresa May's promised to deliver on the voters' verdict
:01:19. > :01:25.and take us out of the EU - And in Northern Ireland: As we say
:01:26. > :01:28.goodbye to Theresa Villiers, her successor, James Brokenshire,
:01:29. > :01:29.outlines his priorities And we hear live from the First
:01:30. > :01:41.and Deputy First Ministers. Since we broadcast last week,
:01:42. > :01:45.a new Prime Minister, a new government, carnage in Nice
:01:46. > :01:50.and an attempted coup in Turkey. The unexpected is now
:01:51. > :01:52.commonplace, major news events But one thing that doesn't change
:01:53. > :02:00.here on Sunday mornings is that we always bring you the best
:02:01. > :02:03.and the brightest political panel in the business -
:02:04. > :02:05.Steve Richards, Isabel Oakeshott So Friday night's attempted army
:02:06. > :02:11.coup in Turkey failed and President Erdogan has moved
:02:12. > :02:13.ruthlessly to re-establish He says the coup was "a gift from
:02:14. > :02:22.God" because it gives him a reason A major clampdown on dissent is now
:02:23. > :02:26.widely anticipated, Let's get the latest
:02:27. > :02:45.from our Correspondent Is it underway? Is it expected to be
:02:46. > :02:50.pretty ruthless? Yes. It is underway. The crackdown has already
:02:51. > :02:56.taken place. Around 3000 soldiers have been detained including
:02:57. > :03:01.high-ranking generals and around 3000 judges have been dismissed from
:03:02. > :03:07.their posts. Many judges have also been detained. President Recep
:03:08. > :03:13.Tayyip Erdogan had already said that those behind the coup attempt would
:03:14. > :03:18.be paying a heavy price and that is what we are seeing at the moment.
:03:19. > :03:25.Many people think that the crackdown will further deepen. The government
:03:26. > :03:30.thinks that the movement of Fethullah Gulen is behind this
:03:31. > :03:35.attempt. That is something that Fethullah Gulen denies. He is a
:03:36. > :03:40.cleric based in Pennsylvania, Annex aisle who used to be on good terms
:03:41. > :03:52.with the government, and Mr Hird one himself. -- Mr Erdogan. Fethullah
:03:53. > :03:59.Gulen has said he has been involved includes himself, but he played no
:04:00. > :04:05.part in this one. Although the square would normally be packed with
:04:06. > :04:08.hundreds of tourists, the beauty of Istanbul being celebrated, but last
:04:09. > :04:12.night it was a different story, packed with hundreds of supporters
:04:13. > :04:16.of the government, chanting slogans like, God is great, in protest of
:04:17. > :04:21.the coup attempt. They adhered to the call coming from President
:04:22. > :04:26.Erdogan to take it out to the streets. They were jubilant because
:04:27. > :04:31.they felt empowered, in the part they played in suppressing the coup
:04:32. > :04:36.attempt. If there was a source of resistance to President is Erdogan,
:04:37. > :04:40.it was not the army, and I would suggest that he is going to take
:04:41. > :04:44.over the army, and he will have complete control. He was already
:04:45. > :04:53.pretty authoritarian before this happened. Is Turkey now in danger of
:04:54. > :05:01.a dictatorship? That is a question that many people asked. In Turkey
:05:02. > :05:06.and in the world. People who do not necessarily aligned themselves with
:05:07. > :05:11.the government policies were already cautious about Mr Erdogan's
:05:12. > :05:16.tendencies about getting more executive powers. It is no secret
:05:17. > :05:19.that President Erdogan once to change the parliamentary system in
:05:20. > :05:24.Turkey to a presidential system which would give him powers that no
:05:25. > :05:30.other president has seen before in Turkey. And now that he has managed
:05:31. > :05:35.to suppress this coup attempt, many people in Turkey fear that this
:05:36. > :05:39.could actually play into the hands of Mr Hird one, and turn the country
:05:40. > :05:45.into an alt. Chrissie, as you have said. -- way into the hands of Mr
:05:46. > :05:51.Erdogan. But on the other hand, Mr Erdogan's supporters are jubilant
:05:52. > :05:54.and they think that this was a victory of democracy. Yesterday the
:05:55. > :05:58.Turkish parliament convened an extraordinary session and all the
:05:59. > :06:05.opposition parties supported the government. The portrayed a stand
:06:06. > :06:09.against the coup attempt. The Prime Minister thanked them and said that
:06:10. > :06:15.this could be a threshold moment for Turkish politics but considering
:06:16. > :06:21.that Turkey is a polarised country and politics is divided, whether the
:06:22. > :06:26.government can bring everybody together after these 48 hours of
:06:27. > :06:30.trauma, it is a difficult task. They give very much. -- thank you very
:06:31. > :06:31.much. We're joined by the Foreign Affairs
:06:32. > :06:39.analyst, Tim Marshall. Let's look back at what happened
:06:40. > :06:44.here. The Turkish army, traditionally does not like Islamist
:06:45. > :06:53.leaning governments and has mounted three successful coups, turning
:06:54. > :06:58.Turkey to a more secular at two secular government. What was this, a
:06:59. > :07:02.gang that could not shoot straight or the keystone cops to make a bit
:07:03. > :07:06.of both. It was white, they did most of the right things but they did not
:07:07. > :07:12.have the depth above them. Above them, they had no support. They made
:07:13. > :07:16.two massive errors. They did not kill President Erdogan. That is the
:07:17. > :07:23.first thing you should do. I am not advocating it! It is a 101 guide to
:07:24. > :07:30.coups! But that is paragraph one, kill or at least capture the
:07:31. > :07:34.president. And shut down the media. They went to the state television,
:07:35. > :07:38.and in the 20th century, all the media was in one building and you
:07:39. > :07:44.would close it down. But they forgot that in the 21st-century, there was
:07:45. > :07:51.CNN Turkey still on a, and they did not close down social media, so Mr
:07:52. > :07:56.Erdogan, who hates social media and Twitter, pepper and --
:07:57. > :08:01.hypocritically gets onto Facebook and says to Turkey, get into the
:08:02. > :08:05.streets and because the coup is white and not deep, very soon the
:08:06. > :08:09.call to prayer goes out, and they know it is not the proper time, and
:08:10. > :08:12.it means going to the street. Within half an hour, the people outnumber
:08:13. > :08:22.the troops and the pendulum swings the other way. If Turkey faces a
:08:23. > :08:28.serious clamp-down, a move from authoritarianism to something
:08:29. > :08:32.bordering on dictator -- a dictatorship, this surely has huge
:08:33. > :08:37.obligations for Turkey's relations with America and the EU? And for the
:08:38. > :08:43.fight with Islamic State. This goes from being a domestic event to one
:08:44. > :08:48.with regional and geopolitical implications. And a Nato member.
:08:49. > :08:53.It's funny, we talk about him all the time, but as your correspondent
:08:54. > :08:56.said, this is a parliamentary republic, where traditionally the
:08:57. > :09:02.president is simply a figurehead but because he is so dominant and has
:09:03. > :09:06.total control of the HK party, all he had to do was switch from one job
:09:07. > :09:13.to the next. And all the power went with him because of the atmosphere
:09:14. > :09:17.at not because of the law. But he tried last year to move the powers
:09:18. > :09:21.legally into his office. He is closing down the media, he is now
:09:22. > :09:31.getting rid of the remnants in the Army that art not with him, and he
:09:32. > :09:40.has the support of the mosques and parliament. It is becoming a
:09:41. > :09:48.democratic dictatorship, a phrase I came up with for the loss of itch in
:09:49. > :09:52.Serbia, you bring two new radio stations out that broadcast so
:09:53. > :09:59.loudly that free speech is still allowed, but it cannot be heard.
:10:00. > :10:06.Remember the Civil War was the Kurds? That will just be utterly
:10:07. > :10:14.ruthless. This is a hugely historic event in Turkey's history because
:10:15. > :10:18.previous army coups have won and he will now take out the army as an
:10:19. > :10:23.independent force and it will become much more authoritarian, perhaps
:10:24. > :10:26.even autocratic. Where does this leave Western relations with Turkey?
:10:27. > :10:31.I think we can agree that it is not going to join the European Union any
:10:32. > :10:36.time soon so we can scotch that one. I think the ultimate dilemma must be
:10:37. > :10:39.for Nato. It is a security organisation but it is also an
:10:40. > :10:42.organisation defined by certain values and practices and if
:10:43. > :10:47.President Erdogan responds to the coup attempt by tightening freedoms
:10:48. > :10:51.further, by intervening against the judiciary and the Armed Forces
:10:52. > :10:55.further, then there must be a dilemma at some stage for Nato. I
:10:56. > :11:02.thought it might have been telling that three or four hours, I don't
:11:03. > :11:06.know if Tim agrees, for the US at least, if not Nato, to say anything
:11:07. > :11:10.about the coup, when they did they did not mention President Erdogan by
:11:11. > :11:15.name. I don't know if that suggests they know what side there bread is
:11:16. > :11:18.buttered on and they were waiting to see if the coup would succeed. But
:11:19. > :11:25.it is a huge event for the West and Turkey. The state was founded on
:11:26. > :11:28.secular ideals. The Armed Forces have always been seen as an
:11:29. > :11:31.invigilator of government. I am right in saying that the Turkish
:11:32. > :11:34.president has never been commander-in-chief, officially, in
:11:35. > :11:40.the way that a US president would be. Or a French president. Many
:11:41. > :11:43.people think that what he wants to do is create an executive style
:11:44. > :11:46.French presidency. You would still have a parliament and a Prime
:11:47. > :11:50.Minister but it would be the president that matters, rather than
:11:51. > :11:58.just being head of state. Turkey has been so pivotal, first of all in
:11:59. > :12:01.dealing with the migrant crisis in the eastern Mediterranean, with the
:12:02. > :12:10.situation in Syria, and Islamic State, and in the region as a
:12:11. > :12:15.regional superpower that balances Iran and even Saudi Arabia. We don't
:12:16. > :12:19.know where this is going to lead now. And has been talk for a long
:12:20. > :12:23.time about how it is massively in the interest of the West to have a
:12:24. > :12:29.stable Turkey. It has not been stable for some time and it will not
:12:30. > :12:34.be, even if this coup was a somewhat silly, ill thought through coup, it
:12:35. > :12:38.is clearly destabilising and will have consequences for a long time to
:12:39. > :12:41.come. I would be interesting to -- I would be interested to hear from Tim
:12:42. > :12:46.whether the EU has some leveraged because Turkey's desire to join it.
:12:47. > :12:52.That dynamic, although clearly not the agenda in spite of the farcical
:12:53. > :12:56.things said during the referendum campaign, that gives the EU some
:12:57. > :13:04.leveraged in reshaping what happens in Turkey. You wonder if that is
:13:05. > :13:08.even on his mind. It will not be. But the president has so many
:13:09. > :13:12.domestic fish to fry, and that might not be a very good metaphor given
:13:13. > :13:15.what he is about to do. If he is about to reintroduce the death
:13:16. > :13:21.penalty, it becomes very difficult to talk about Turkey being part of
:13:22. > :13:23.the EU. What do our diplomats do? It is in our interest to encourage the
:13:24. > :13:29.dreamer but it does not look compatible with the way that things
:13:30. > :13:37.are being carried out. Remarkably, these events in Gneiss had been
:13:38. > :13:40.overshadowed by Turkey and yet it only happened on Thursday night and
:13:41. > :13:44.this is Sunday morning. I suggest that the reaction in France to Nice
:13:45. > :13:52.is going to be very different. Charlie Hebdo, the Bataclan, there
:13:53. > :13:55.was great solidarity and it brought France together. I think this is
:13:56. > :13:59.different because people have had enough and it is different because
:14:00. > :14:04.there are clear security questions. No barrier on the promenade. We are
:14:05. > :14:08.told that there was a barrier when the military parades took place but
:14:09. > :14:13.it was removed after words, and already the politicians are ganging
:14:14. > :14:17.up on the government and this is becoming a major pre-election issue.
:14:18. > :14:20.That's right. The election is next year and Marine Le Pen is
:14:21. > :14:25.positioning herself very strongly with the National Front. There is a
:14:26. > :14:29.public divided on how to approach it and even if this is not Islamic
:14:30. > :14:33.State, and I am not convinced that it is, it happens in the context of
:14:34. > :14:39.Islamic State and of mass slaughter in the name of something. It is
:14:40. > :14:44.another chip away at our freedoms. And that is, in itself, a success.
:14:45. > :14:49.They are going to continue. I believe the rise of the right is far
:14:50. > :14:57.from Peking. And it plays absolutely into next year's presidential
:14:58. > :15:01.election. Going back from the presidential election, that all
:15:02. > :15:05.comes into what the EU is going to look like. We are in a state of
:15:06. > :15:08.flux. You are old enough, forgive me, Andrew, to know that everybody
:15:09. > :15:13.always says it has never been as bad as now and it is always untrue. But
:15:14. > :15:14.it is actually more corrugated than I have ever known it. And you may
:15:15. > :15:19.agree. I do agree. The Conservatives completed
:15:20. > :15:20.their leadership contest in a matter of days,
:15:21. > :15:23.Labour's has barely begun. There are now two candidates
:15:24. > :15:25.standing against Jeremy Corbyn - Angela Eagle and Owen Smith -
:15:26. > :15:29.but the Labour Leader has told us that the rules which exclude
:15:30. > :15:31.recently signed up members from voting in the contest
:15:32. > :15:33.are unfair and he wants the party's national executive
:15:34. > :15:35.to change them. Adam Fleming went for a walk
:15:36. > :15:42.in the park with Mr Corbyn. This is the lake that was built
:15:43. > :15:45.here in the 19th century, rather strange lake on the top
:15:46. > :15:48.of the hill. I went for a stroll
:15:49. > :15:54.round the Labour leader's favourite local beauty spot -
:15:55. > :15:59.Finsbury Park in north London. Do you have time to take a casual
:16:00. > :16:02.stroll with a journalist Yes, because doing things
:16:03. > :16:06.in a relaxed way is important, and doing other things is important,
:16:07. > :16:10.so going to a park, being in your However busy I am, my
:16:11. > :16:22.allotment is tended. It's in good order, we had a good
:16:23. > :16:26.crop of broad beans and we ate A slightly less relaxing
:16:27. > :16:30.part of his week. At a meeting of Labour's national
:16:31. > :16:32.executive on Tuesday, Jeremy Corbyn secured an automatic
:16:33. > :16:35.place in the leadership election. But he's not happy with new rules
:16:36. > :16:39.that say people who joined the party There's going to be some quite
:16:40. > :16:45.intense discussions over the next few days, I suspect,
:16:46. > :16:47.and I hope our party officials and National Executive will see
:16:48. > :16:51.sense on this and recognise that those people who have freely
:16:52. > :16:56.given their time and money to join the Labour Party should be welcomed
:16:57. > :16:59.in and given the opportunity to take part in this crucial debate,
:17:00. > :17:01.whichever way they decide to vote. I'm hoping there will be
:17:02. > :17:08.an understanding that it is simply not very fair to say to people that
:17:09. > :17:11.joined the party in the last six months, "sorry, your participation
:17:12. > :17:15.is no longer welcome because we are having
:17:16. > :17:20.a leadership contest." In the next few days,
:17:21. > :17:23.various Labour factions will be racing to sign people up
:17:24. > :17:25.as registered supporters, It costs ?25, not ?3
:17:26. > :17:34.like in the last contest. For people who can't afford the 25
:17:35. > :17:37.quid, what would you suggest If they can't afford the ?25,
:17:38. > :17:42.what they do? It seems to me the ?25 bar is quite
:17:43. > :17:47.high and not really reasonable. A lot of people have said to me,
:17:48. > :17:50.people stop me in the street saying, "I would love to vote in this
:17:51. > :17:56.election but I can't afford ?25." He is also disappointed that
:17:57. > :17:58.virtually all local party meetings have been suspended over
:17:59. > :18:03.fears of intimidation. I haven't stopped party meetings
:18:04. > :18:06.taking place and I actually I think party meetings
:18:07. > :18:10.should take place. Intimidation of any sort by anybody
:18:11. > :18:16.is absolutely wrong, but to cancel meetings
:18:17. > :18:19.because of the perception that intimidation might take place
:18:20. > :18:22.I think is a big mistake. The issues appear to be that
:18:23. > :18:26.where meetings have taken place, far more people have attended
:18:27. > :18:29.than were expected and so there has been issues about how people
:18:30. > :18:31.can get in the room, whereas there's a fairly
:18:32. > :18:34.simple answer to that - Talking of meetings,
:18:35. > :18:41.who was he with when Theresa May was taking over as Prime Minister
:18:42. > :18:46.earlier this week? I was with an all-party group,
:18:47. > :18:48.including Conservatives, talking to two of the Miami five
:18:49. > :18:50.who had been in prison in Miami and were released
:18:51. > :18:53.by the court decisions of USA and the new rapprochement with Cuba
:18:54. > :18:56.and actually welcoming the fact there had been an agreement
:18:57. > :19:03.reached in Cuba. I was actually with Conservatives
:19:04. > :19:07.and Labour people. I was there for about 20 minutes,
:19:08. > :19:10.then I went back to my office And so you felt that was a good use
:19:11. > :19:15.of your time at that point when the country was transitioning
:19:16. > :19:18.from one Prime Minister to another? Informing yourself by listening
:19:19. > :19:23.to people from all kinds of walks This morning I was on the phone
:19:24. > :19:28.to friends in Istanbul and Ankara And so when an issue happens
:19:29. > :19:36.anywhere in the world, obviously I read all the briefings
:19:37. > :19:38.that I've been given, obviously I follow the news
:19:39. > :19:41.and information, but also I quite often know people in different
:19:42. > :19:44.places around the world so I call Can I get a hug
:19:45. > :19:49.for that? He also seems to know a lot
:19:50. > :19:58.of people in this park. What do you think about
:19:59. > :20:00.Angela Eagle and Owen Smith I have been trying to unregister
:20:01. > :20:15.from the Green Party so that I can register with the Labour Party
:20:16. > :20:17.so that I can support you. We were walking round
:20:18. > :20:22.with Jeremy Corbyn, What did you shout
:20:23. > :20:25.out when you saw him? I don't know what I said,
:20:26. > :20:28.something awful like... Something like "you've
:20:29. > :20:33.ruined the Labour Party". Something like, "step aside and stop
:20:34. > :20:36.ruining the Labour Party," I guess. And I couldn't let Jeremy go
:20:37. > :20:41.without introducing him to the craze sweeping the nation,
:20:42. > :20:44.Pokemon Go. He didn't seem that bothered
:20:45. > :20:47.but then he's playing a much bigger game, trying to hold onto his job,
:20:48. > :20:51.and that's no walk in the park. Our work this morning has not
:20:52. > :20:56.been in vain. And a longer version of that
:20:57. > :20:59.interview with Jeremy Corbyn We're joined now from Salford
:21:00. > :21:02.though by the Shadow Education Secretary,
:21:03. > :21:14.Angela Rayner. Welcome to the programme. Jeremy
:21:15. > :21:20.Corbyn wants to allow people who joined in the last six months of
:21:21. > :21:25.your party to vote, he thinks the ?25 fee is too high. Isn't it just
:21:26. > :21:29.typical of the chaos Labour is now in that you are holding a leadership
:21:30. > :21:35.contest before you have agreed rules? Good morning, I think it's
:21:36. > :21:39.important we recognise the Labour Party is transformed with now over
:21:40. > :21:43.half a million members joined, which is fantastic. We are the largest
:21:44. > :21:49.democratic social party across Europe. For me it is about
:21:50. > :21:53.democracy. I asked about the rules, should you be having a contest
:21:54. > :21:59.before you have agreed rules? The rules were decided at the NEC
:22:00. > :22:05.meeting which lasted seven hours, quite a lengthy marathon... You want
:22:06. > :22:10.to change them? People need to reflect upon the current situation
:22:11. > :22:14.and there has been outrage. 130,000 people have joined since the
:22:15. > :22:20.referendum, and we have got to give them the opportunity to have their
:22:21. > :22:27.voice heard. Have these 130,000 that joined after the referendum been
:22:28. > :22:31.properly vetted? That is a situation that the NEC and our party has got
:22:32. > :22:36.to approve and go through. We did it last time, we had a huge number of
:22:37. > :22:45.people join our party recently. Have that number been vetted or not? You
:22:46. > :22:50.have got to allow democracy. What we do is we ensure we get more people,
:22:51. > :22:56.more staff, more ability to deal with that issue because democracy is
:22:57. > :22:59.important, it is enshrined. Hold on, you are starting the leadership
:23:00. > :23:05.campaign and you still haven't vetted those who may be allowed to
:23:06. > :23:08.vote, that's what I mean by chaos, if not fast. I don't think it's
:23:09. > :23:16.chaotic to have over half a million people join our party and want to
:23:17. > :23:19.have a say, it is a positive step. It is if you cannot vet them come
:23:20. > :23:22.you don't know if they are members of the Socialist workers party, the
:23:23. > :23:30.Greens, the Communists, the National front, the Conservatives. You have
:23:31. > :23:36.no idea. We have 130,000 people who have joined in the last three weeks,
:23:37. > :23:39.which the Conservative Party have around 150,000 members per se. We
:23:40. > :23:44.have over half a million members so we are doing a great job. The
:23:45. > :23:48.Trotskyists and other groups you are suggesting may be trying to join our
:23:49. > :23:52.party, they are not in the great numbers we see at the moment. It is
:23:53. > :23:59.important to give people a say about the future of our country and party.
:24:00. > :24:02.I love democracy. Will you definitely be voting for Mr Corbyn
:24:03. > :24:08.this time because you didn't last time. No, I supported Andy Burnham
:24:09. > :24:12.last time, but I recognise Jeremy Corbyn had a significant mandate to
:24:13. > :24:17.lead our party. I don't think it's time to have a leadership contest. I
:24:18. > :24:22.will not be nominating another candidate, I will be recognising our
:24:23. > :24:32.democratically elected leader. I asked who you will be voting for. I
:24:33. > :24:40.will be supporting -- our democratically elected leader. Can
:24:41. > :24:46.you say the words, I will vote for Jeremy Corbyn? I have made it clear
:24:47. > :24:54.what my position is, and that's about democracy and our members
:24:55. > :24:59.making... Are you or aren't you? I have told you I will be supporting
:25:00. > :25:03.our democratically elected leader of our party. I want to hold the
:25:04. > :25:10.Government to account, we have a bill coming up on Tuesday... I'm
:25:11. > :25:15.puzzled, are you voting for Mr Corbyn? Your viewers want to see us
:25:16. > :25:20.holding this Government to account. I have tried to answer your question
:25:21. > :25:25.but you don't want to listen to my answer. Could you name the person
:25:26. > :25:29.you will be voting for in this election? I will be listening to our
:25:30. > :25:34.membership and in the meantime holding the Government to account
:25:35. > :25:40.and supporting our democratically elected leader of our party, which
:25:41. > :25:47.is Jeremy Corbyn. A new poll shows Theresa May leads Jeremy Corbyn 58%
:25:48. > :25:51.to 19, on who would make the better Prime Minister. It shows 40% of
:25:52. > :25:57.Labour voters think Theresa May would make a better Prime Minister.
:25:58. > :26:03.Why are you backing, if you are, I'm still not clear, why are you backing
:26:04. > :26:09.a loser? Our party is seen as quite divided and divided parties never
:26:10. > :26:12.win elections. We don't disagree on policy points, we have to get our
:26:13. > :26:16.policy points across to the electorate and then they will
:26:17. > :26:20.decide. Theresa May has the challenge of bringing her
:26:21. > :26:23.Conservative Party together. There was no competition, no democracy
:26:24. > :26:28.within the Conservative Party in terms of who they wanted as leader.
:26:29. > :26:32.She has a job to do because the country has never been more divided
:26:33. > :26:40.than it is now and that's directly as a result of the Conservatives.
:26:41. > :26:46.You all seem to have a job to do. Speaking of Mrs May, is the Labour
:26:47. > :26:50.Party now the nasty party? No, Theresa May had it right, the
:26:51. > :26:55.Conservatives continue to be so. They are cutting education funding
:26:56. > :27:00.by up to 8% in this Parliament, they want to prioritise the NHS and have
:27:01. > :27:05.already been creeping that in. They are not on the side of ordinary
:27:06. > :27:09.people in this country. Theresa May has said she wants the Conservatives
:27:10. > :27:13.to be a party for everybody and working people across the country.
:27:14. > :27:20.Now her words have to be matched by actions. Let me ask you this about
:27:21. > :27:26.Labour. Meetings of constituency Labour parties have been suspended
:27:27. > :27:31.from fear of intimidation. There are death threats and violence, a brick
:27:32. > :27:37.thrown through the window of the office block where Angela Eagle's
:27:38. > :27:42.constituency is housed. Police have had to investigate. I ask again, is
:27:43. > :27:47.it not Labour that is the nasty party? I think any act of abuse and
:27:48. > :27:50.intimidation is disgusting in politics and many politicians from
:27:51. > :27:54.all sides of the house have had death threats and threats of
:27:55. > :27:58.violence, and that has got to be stamped out of a modern democracy.
:27:59. > :28:04.Why is it in the Labour Party this is happening? It happens across the
:28:05. > :28:09.spectrum in politics and it is disgusting. But it cannot stop
:28:10. > :28:12.democracy either, we have got to continue to uphold and enshrined our
:28:13. > :28:16.democracy in everything we do because it is important. It means a
:28:17. > :28:20.lot to a lot of people but you cannot win on democracy by abusing,
:28:21. > :28:24.threatening and intimidating the other side of the argument. You have
:28:25. > :28:30.got to have a constructive debate and people have got to have their
:28:31. > :28:33.democratic right to vote. Thanks for being with us this morning.
:28:34. > :28:35.Now, despite signing up to David Cameron's Remain strategy,
:28:36. > :28:37.our new Prime Minister has put navigating the UK's departure
:28:38. > :28:40.from the EU and retaining the union at the centre
:28:41. > :28:43.We're joined now by the Conservative MP and former attorney-general
:28:44. > :28:46.The appointment of three key Cabinet positions to Brexiteers - Boris
:28:47. > :28:48.Johnson, David Davis, and Liam Fox - reflects this.
:28:49. > :28:51.A few days before his appointment, the Brexit Secretary set
:28:52. > :28:55.out how he'd proceed with separation from the EU.
:28:56. > :28:57.He said triggering new trade talks were a
:28:58. > :29:00.priority and wanted the UK to negotiate free-trade deals with
:29:01. > :29:08.Mr Davis believes the UK should not budge on control of our borders, but
:29:09. > :29:11.the tariff-free access to the EU single market is still his preferred
:29:12. > :29:17.The Brexit Secretary acknowledged that talks with the
:29:18. > :29:18.Scottish, Welsh, and Northern Ireland governments
:29:19. > :29:23.And Theresa May made the first step on Thursday, telling
:29:24. > :29:26.Nicola Sturgeon in Edinburgh that she is willing to listen
:29:27. > :29:27.to options on Scotland's future relationship
:29:28. > :29:33.Mrs May said Britain would not rush into
:29:34. > :29:36.Brexit negotiations and would need some time to prepare.
:29:37. > :29:38.However, Mr Davis said Article 50 should be
:29:39. > :29:46.and mean Britain would be out of the EU by January
:29:47. > :29:53.We're joined now by the Conservative MP and former attorney-general
:29:54. > :29:55.Dominic Grieve, who campaigned for Remain, and the Labour MP
:29:56. > :29:58.who chaired the Vote Leave campaign, Gisela Stewart.
:29:59. > :30:08.We are joined by Dominic Grieve and the chairman of the boat Leave
:30:09. > :30:17.campaign, Gisela Stuart. -- Vote Leave. As Theresa May delivered? I
:30:18. > :30:20.think she has. I think it was important that you made clear that
:30:21. > :30:27.Brexit meant Brexit. We had to make a clear that there was no second
:30:28. > :30:32.referendum in the offering. That required certainty for the country.
:30:33. > :30:36.Are you satisfied with that? I am completely satisfied with her
:30:37. > :30:39.approach, yes. It is clear that the vote, as expressed in the
:30:40. > :30:43.referendum, has to be respected. We have to take forward a programme for
:30:44. > :30:48.removing the United Kingdom from the EU. Really that is going to be an
:30:49. > :30:53.immensely comported process and it also carries with it economic risks,
:30:54. > :30:58.certainly in the short to medium term. I am also open-minded as to
:30:59. > :31:03.how one best does that. I think we're going to have to respond to
:31:04. > :31:06.events as well as trying to shape them. We have seen a blueprint
:31:07. > :31:14.published by my friend and colleague, David Davis, about
:31:15. > :31:18.Britain's outside the EU. I expect that 99.9% of conservatives would
:31:19. > :31:22.subscribe to that but getting to it is more congregated. We need to
:31:23. > :31:29.unpick this bit by bit. When do we trigger article 50? You need to go
:31:30. > :31:35.in reverse, like a reverse accession process. The most important thing is
:31:36. > :31:42.trade negotiations. As I understand that you cannot have a bilateral
:31:43. > :31:48.agreement unless you have notified Article 50. But you must have some
:31:49. > :31:53.idea of the time? The sooner the better. When do you think we should
:31:54. > :31:57.trigger article 50. I think we should trigger at when there is some
:31:58. > :32:02.clarity as to what the scope of the negotiations that will follow will
:32:03. > :32:06.be. This is the first big hurdle. Clearly if our European partners do
:32:07. > :32:11.not want to negotiate with us at all, even informally, prior to
:32:12. > :32:14.triggering Article 50, that might presents difficulties but from the
:32:15. > :32:18.point of view of the Prime Minister, she will make up her own mind.
:32:19. > :32:22.Actually getting some clear idea of what it is that the United Kingdom
:32:23. > :32:27.is seeking in terms of a future relationship is going to very
:32:28. > :32:32.important. And I think it is impossible to give a particular time
:32:33. > :32:36.frame. But I agree with Gisela Stuart. But the time frame has to
:32:37. > :32:41.work and it has to be done in good time for the 2020 election, so you
:32:42. > :32:45.can work back from that. I think you can, but I think that she needs, the
:32:46. > :32:48.Prime Minister needs to be given maximum flexibility about this
:32:49. > :32:52.because boxing herself in to how she goes about what is going to be one
:32:53. > :32:55.of the most difficult political transformations this country has
:32:56. > :32:59.gone through in modern times, I think that requires pragmatism. Does
:33:00. > :33:05.it require a vote of Parliament to trigger Article 50? Not necessarily.
:33:06. > :33:09.Let's come back to something. This is not just about our relationship
:33:10. > :33:17.with the EU, it is our relationship with the rest of the world.
:33:18. > :33:21.Triggering Article 50 has also been interpreted into how we talk with
:33:22. > :33:25.other countries. But we can talk with them without concluding deals?
:33:26. > :33:29.But in terms of negotiations, there comes a point that to make it
:33:30. > :33:35.meaningful, you have to trigger it. But I want to ask you, do we need a
:33:36. > :33:42.vote in parliament to trigger Article 50? Undoubtedly. It is a
:33:43. > :33:45.matter of convention. The idea that a government could take a decision
:33:46. > :33:49.of such massive importance to the United Kingdom without Parliamentary
:33:50. > :33:53.approval, it seems to me to be extremely far-fetched. It is not
:33:54. > :33:59.about law. It is about convention and reality. Do you agree? I can see
:34:00. > :34:03.the arguments from both sides but I don't think you absolutely have to
:34:04. > :34:07.do it. We have not got a lot of time, would you vote for triggering
:34:08. > :34:13.Article 50? Yes. I have made it quite clear that the result of the
:34:14. > :34:18.referendum must mean that we have to be willing to embark on the process.
:34:19. > :34:22.I put in one rider to that which is that it seems to me that any
:34:23. > :34:26.sensible decision has to be made at the time you make it. But that is
:34:27. > :34:30.not a suggestion that I am going to suddenly decide not to support
:34:31. > :34:33.triggering Article 50, but triggering Article 50 is an
:34:34. > :34:38.important political step to withdraw from the EU. One has to keep that in
:34:39. > :34:42.mind. Do you worry that people like Dominic Grieve are teeing themselves
:34:43. > :34:48.up to call for a second referendum on the nature of the deal we will
:34:49. > :34:51.do? I do. I think if there is one thing the European Union is very
:34:52. > :34:56.good at, it is that when political necessity is in the interest of both
:34:57. > :35:00.sides, they are capable of rewriting the rules. So the European Union
:35:01. > :35:07.itself has to look at the problems it faces, and then at what the best
:35:08. > :35:09.deal is. There is a danger that those who do not like the outcome of
:35:10. > :35:14.the referendum get themselves hooked on Article 50, rather than saying
:35:15. > :35:18.that there is a new reality out there and we need to deal with that
:35:19. > :35:21.in the interests of the United Kingdom. If you could bring it
:35:22. > :35:26.about, you would have a second referendum, wouldn't you? Not
:35:27. > :35:30.necessarily. The justification for having a second referendum is if the
:35:31. > :35:32.circumstances that prevail at the time and justify it because
:35:33. > :35:34.circumstances that prevail at the time and justify it because there is
:35:35. > :35:39.some legitimate question to put to the electorate. I am very wary of
:35:40. > :35:42.circumscribing oneself. The referendum is no different from the
:35:43. > :35:46.general election in this sense. It is a statement at the time of what
:35:47. > :35:50.people want in terms of the way policy is taken forward. If people's
:35:51. > :35:55.opinions change, it would be extraordinary. And I think the only
:35:56. > :36:00.way you can judge that is by looking and listening to what people are
:36:01. > :36:06.saying to you. Opinion polls can measure it. Like the opinion polls
:36:07. > :36:11.that told you your site was going to win the referendum? I am not sure I
:36:12. > :36:18.ever believe those polls. But they did. If you take a decision on the
:36:19. > :36:22.base of those polls... But what is the question that one might be
:36:23. > :36:32.asking. What the public have asked us to do is quite clear. They have
:36:33. > :36:36.given, by a majority of 1.2 million people, not insubstantial, they have
:36:37. > :36:40.said they want a fundamental change to the UK's relationship with the EU
:36:41. > :36:45.and they see that relationship as being one where we are outside of
:36:46. > :36:49.it. I have to respect that. And we have not got much time so I am going
:36:50. > :36:54.to interrupt. You have had a good save. Gisela Stuart, here is the
:36:55. > :36:58.point. There is a lot of people on the Labour side listening to Dominic
:36:59. > :37:03.Grieve and nodding their heads. Owen Smith, one of the leadership
:37:04. > :37:06.contenders, he basically wants a second referendum, and you are going
:37:07. > :37:10.to have to start gearing up for that. Do you fear that this could be
:37:11. > :37:14.foisted upon you? I think it would be a disastrous step because both
:37:15. > :37:18.political parties need to search why they were so out of step with the
:37:19. > :37:22.electorate, particularly the Labour Party. It is a Parliamentary
:37:23. > :37:25.democracy were we get elected to do a job and that is to either hold the
:37:26. > :37:30.government to account or to be the government. We have asked them and
:37:31. > :37:34.they have reflected, in large numbers, they have said that we want
:37:35. > :37:36.to leave. And they expect us to get on with the job. I am sorry to rush
:37:37. > :37:39.you but we have been short of time. It's just gone 11.35,
:37:40. > :37:41.you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers
:37:42. > :37:44.in Scotland and Wales, who leave us now for Sunday Politics Scotland
:37:45. > :37:47.and Sunday Politics Wales. Coming up here in 20
:37:48. > :37:49.minutes, the Week Ahead. First though, the Sunday
:37:50. > :37:57.Politics where you are. Hello and welcome to Sunday Politics
:37:58. > :38:00.in Northern Ireland. Theresa May has shown the door
:38:01. > :38:03.to Theresa Villiers, and now her successor as Secretary
:38:04. > :38:19.of State outlines his vision I think the most important thing now
:38:20. > :38:20.is that we do move on with that best deal that is possible for Northern
:38:21. > :38:23.Ireland and the rest of the UK. Also this morning, at the end
:38:24. > :38:25.of a tumultuous political term, we talk to the First Minister
:38:26. > :38:28.and the Deputy First Minister to hear their thoughts
:38:29. > :38:30.on the challenges ahead. And with their take on it all,
:38:31. > :38:32.I'm joined by journalists The Cabinet cull by
:38:33. > :38:41.the new Prime Minister, Theresa May, saw her namesake,
:38:42. > :38:44.Theresa Villiers, replaced by James Brokenshire
:38:45. > :38:47.as Secretary of State. The South East London MP
:38:48. > :38:50.faces a host of issues, many of them historical,
:38:51. > :38:52.but also - and a much more recent development -
:38:53. > :38:55.the consequences of last month's vote to leave the EU,
:38:56. > :38:58.and the implications of that So when I spoke to Mr Brokenshire
:38:59. > :39:04.on Friday, I began by asking him why he thinks he was given
:39:05. > :39:16.the Northern Ireland job. I think Theresa Villiers did an
:39:17. > :39:21.incredible job as Secretary of State firms or referred, she has a strong
:39:22. > :39:26.legacy of issues she took forward, creating great stability and
:39:27. > :39:32.advocating security and prosperity. I want to continue with that work,
:39:33. > :39:36.respecting the Belfast Agreement and making progress in relation to the
:39:37. > :39:42.Stormont House Agreement and fresh start, and I look forward to working
:39:43. > :39:46.with everyone across communities, reaching out and listening and
:39:47. > :39:51.taking the best outcome for Northern Ireland. You were a supporter of the
:39:52. > :39:58.Remain campaign. Do you think that is why you were appointed? You can
:39:59. > :40:03.see from my approach that I believe in stability, security and
:40:04. > :40:08.prosperity. They are the guiding factors that have taken me forward
:40:09. > :40:13.and it is that approach I intend to bring in my new role. I have
:40:14. > :40:19.experienced from my time dealing with counterterrorism but it is a
:40:20. > :40:24.real opportunity we have here. We have had the outcome of the
:40:25. > :40:29.referendum, I campaigned for remains but we now need to get on and chat
:40:30. > :40:37.that positive course for Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK as we
:40:38. > :40:41.look to that future outside the EU. The two largest parties here, the
:40:42. > :40:49.DUP and Sinn Fein, hold different editions on Brexit. How do you hope
:40:50. > :40:52.to square that circle? It's important I listen carefully and
:40:53. > :40:56.work with all communities in Northern Ireland, but the UK public
:40:57. > :41:03.have sent a clear message they want to see the UK outside the EU. It is
:41:04. > :41:08.important we get on with that task and I will provide a clear voice for
:41:09. > :41:12.Northern Ireland within the government to set out how we get the
:41:13. > :41:18.best possible outcome, working with the Executive. I've spoken to the
:41:19. > :41:21.First Minister and Deputy First Minister and I want to continue
:41:22. > :41:28.those discussions as we chart the course. But the challenge for you is
:41:29. > :41:32.that 56% of people in Northern Ireland but to remain, and that's a
:41:33. > :41:39.different result from the picture across the UK. I campaigned for
:41:40. > :41:43.Remain but equally I think we need to respect that overall picture
:41:44. > :41:48.that's been presented from the UK. It's important now that we get on
:41:49. > :41:55.with that task, having been given that message, to ensure we get the
:41:56. > :42:00.best possible outcome. I view this as a positive way to approach this,
:42:01. > :42:05.to make sure we look at those opportunities for trade, injuring
:42:06. > :42:10.with the two that positive future but unconscious of what this means
:42:11. > :42:14.for the border. I've had conversations with Frances
:42:15. > :42:19.Fitzgerald, the Irish Interior Minister, to emphasise the need for
:42:20. > :42:25.close collaboration so we can ensure we do not see the return of orders
:42:26. > :42:29.in place. I believe there's a strong commitment from both to achieve that
:42:30. > :42:34.and that is a priority item I will take forward. Martin McGuinness says
:42:35. > :42:39.he told the Prime Minister yesterday he want to see the democratically
:42:40. > :42:45.expressed will of the people here protected I find it away to enable
:42:46. > :42:52.Northern Ireland to stay in the EU. Is that up for discussion? The
:42:53. > :42:56.Northern Irish people have given a view as part of the UK perspective
:42:57. > :43:01.on the referendum and the UK as a whole have underlined a view that we
:43:02. > :43:08.have that future for the UK outside the EU. I think rather than inject
:43:09. > :43:14.instability and uncertainty, we now need to complement and ensure we
:43:15. > :43:19.drive that positive vision for the future and that is the role I want
:43:20. > :43:23.to play, yes, working with all communities, listening but
:43:24. > :43:28.delivering on that objective so we can to the future with that positive
:43:29. > :43:34.sense of what we can and will be outside the EU. But the difficulty
:43:35. > :43:41.is that we do not have certainty on any of these issues. Local optician
:43:42. > :43:44.'s sake their number 130 is to represent the best interests of
:43:45. > :43:48.their constituents and they will in mind that the new Prime Minister
:43:49. > :43:54.came to Northern Ireland to campaign three weeks ago and could not have
:43:55. > :44:00.been clearer, the interests of Northern Ireland would be best
:44:01. > :44:05.served by remaining in the EU. There is no point dwelling on the campaign
:44:06. > :44:09.of the past. But it is for people in Northern Ireland because that is
:44:10. > :44:15.what best represents people here. The most important thing is that we
:44:16. > :44:21.do move on with that best deal that is possible for Northern Ireland and
:44:22. > :44:24.the rest of the UK. That is what we need to put our focus on because we
:44:25. > :44:30.will look towards those negotiations, toward the powers we
:44:31. > :44:34.will need to take back from the EU and there will be clear issues from
:44:35. > :44:39.Northern Ireland in relation to this, which is why the role I have
:44:40. > :44:45.now I see as important in advocating at the heart of government in terms
:44:46. > :44:50.of the best interests of Northern Ireland but I will work closely with
:44:51. > :44:53.the Executive and leaders and politicians from across Northern
:44:54. > :44:58.Ireland as we take that forward. You mentioned the border. Before the
:44:59. > :45:03.referendum, to Theresa May said in her view there would have to be
:45:04. > :45:10.harder border controls in the event of a Brexit vote. Is she right about
:45:11. > :45:14.that? It is important we maintained the common travel area, which
:45:15. > :45:20.existed before the UK entered what was then the common market, and that
:45:21. > :45:25.is a priority, that we do not seem border controls. There is a strong
:45:26. > :45:31.commitment from the Irish government and ourselves to see that doesn't
:45:32. > :45:36.happen but that has to be an important priority item for me and I
:45:37. > :45:41.have had discussions with the Irish government to take this forward to
:45:42. > :45:47.see that does not happen. We're talking about the free movement of
:45:48. > :45:49.people, what about customs and trade because the Irish government is
:45:50. > :45:56.concerned there may need to be border controls as far as that is
:45:57. > :46:01.concerned? That is damaging for the Republic's economy. Yes, it is also
:46:02. > :46:09.about business and trade, ensuring we have that prosperity agenda and
:46:10. > :46:13.it is these issues that we will need to have conversations with the Irish
:46:14. > :46:19.government as well as the European Commission and member states, and
:46:20. > :46:22.it's absolutely why it matters that we are taking the clear approach we
:46:23. > :46:28.are in wanting to protect that Common travel area not just for
:46:29. > :46:34.people but also goods and services, and it is those issues I will be
:46:35. > :46:37.taking forward. You mentioned your involvement as a Home Office
:46:38. > :46:43.minister with counterterrorism. What is your assessment of the incident
:46:44. > :46:49.terrorist threat here in Northern Ireland and across the rest of the
:46:50. > :46:55.UK? We have a severe level of threat and one of the priority items that I
:46:56. > :47:01.am taking forward is to work with the PSNI to ensure that we are
:47:02. > :47:08.maintaining that position of safety and security. It was an important
:47:09. > :47:14.part of the work of my predecessor, continuing the work and ensuring we
:47:15. > :47:19.have those issues of security at the heart of our agenda, but
:47:20. > :47:24.acknowledging the legacy issues and that is something I am conscious of
:47:25. > :47:29.in terms equally of working with survivors and victims and taking
:47:30. > :47:34.forward those important aspects of the Stormont House Agreement and
:47:35. > :47:42.continuing to see that as a priority item. That item has proved an
:47:43. > :47:46.obstinate sticking point for a long time and several of your successors
:47:47. > :47:50.have failed to deal with it. It keeps being kicked into the long
:47:51. > :47:58.grass. What makes you believe you will sort it out? I do want to, as a
:47:59. > :48:04.priority, to meet survivors and Vic 's, to see this as an essential
:48:05. > :48:10.aspect of the work I need to take forward as Secretary of State. There
:48:11. > :48:17.has been progress made under the agreements but we need to move this
:48:18. > :48:21.forward, and all I would say is I recognise those legacy issues of the
:48:22. > :48:29.past very clearly and that is a priority item for me. Sinn Fein said
:48:30. > :48:31.yesterday there is no need for a Northern Ireland Secretary of state
:48:32. > :48:38.anymore, the role should be abolished. You think you might be
:48:39. > :48:42.the last one to pull the job? With all these issues arising from the
:48:43. > :48:48.referendum, from the security agenda, it now matters into the
:48:49. > :48:53.future as well as having a Secretary of State at the heart of the UK
:48:54. > :48:58.armoured to ensure those issues in Northern Ireland are championed and
:48:59. > :49:01.respected and ensure we get that best possible future deal for
:49:02. > :49:06.Northern Ireland to drive bought the future prosperity and I'm looking
:49:07. > :49:12.forward to getting out and meeting people and taking that issue
:49:13. > :49:15.forward, and being that voice at the heart of government to get that
:49:16. > :49:16.wasn't a version which I'm determined to do.
:49:17. > :49:18.The new Secretary of State, James Brokenshire.
:49:19. > :49:31.Allison, what do you make of what he had to say? He said a lot of words
:49:32. > :49:34.but not a lot of detail, and that is to separate secretary of States who
:49:35. > :49:40.have pushed on the movement of goods across the border but we are unable
:49:41. > :49:45.to get any details of how it will happen. He said the Common travel
:49:46. > :49:49.area would remain but it's impossible for the transportation of
:49:50. > :49:55.goods across the border to remain as it is one part of Ireland will still
:49:56. > :49:59.be in the EU and one part down, and the Irish Vermont will have to
:50:00. > :50:04.answer to other EU member states, who will not allow things to stay as
:50:05. > :50:10.they are. He doesn't have details as to how that will work and we are now
:50:11. > :50:17.further on than we were a couple of months ago. There are still a lot of
:50:18. > :50:21.unknowns. Yes, a lot of it was fairly land, he could be speaking
:50:22. > :50:27.very cautiously but one disadvantage he has is that DUP and Sinn Fein
:50:28. > :50:34.were on different sides of the Brexit debate, but in his favour the
:50:35. > :50:38.five big parties of government for all in favour of not having a hard
:50:39. > :50:45.border, Sinn Fein and the DUP have wanted. My instinct remains that
:50:46. > :50:51.eight deal will be phoned between London and Dublin. But it is not
:50:52. > :50:59.just about London and Dublin but about Brussels, this will not be a
:51:00. > :51:03.bilateral deal. Except that but like gut instinct is that they need to
:51:04. > :51:08.keep that political process going and I think therefore find a way and
:51:09. > :51:14.Brussels will not want to interfere too much and will find a way of
:51:15. > :51:19.saying they can live with that. What you think nationalists will make of
:51:20. > :51:26.James Brokenshire being given the job? Is a bit of an unknown and I
:51:27. > :51:31.think he was given the job for being a supporter of the Theresa May end
:51:32. > :51:37.the campaign, you could see in the/ of the Cabinet she rewarded a lot of
:51:38. > :51:41.people who had been loyal to her, he doesn't have a hardback that follow
:51:42. > :51:46.in that the last Secretary of State was pretty hands-off so he is not
:51:47. > :52:00.having to follow on from a great act.
:52:01. > :52:03.Algae talking to Martin McGuinness any moment but first Arlene Foster
:52:04. > :52:22.joins me live from her constituency. Do you think James Brokenshire the
:52:23. > :52:26.clicky man you can do business with? I do want to pay tribute to Theresa
:52:27. > :52:27.Villiers for the work she has been involved in here in Northern
:52:28. > :52:36.Ireland. We had a difficult involved in here in Northern
:52:37. > :52:39.available to us when we needed to speak with her. She will look back
:52:40. > :52:42.with some satisfaction at her tenure in Northern Ireland, she didn't know
:52:43. > :52:47.very much about Northern Ireland when she came over here but she
:52:48. > :52:51.reads having been very much abreast of the issues here and I told her on
:52:52. > :52:55.Thursday that she will always be welcome here in Northern Ireland. I
:52:56. > :52:59.am very much looking forward to working with James Brokenshire. He
:53:00. > :53:02.has an intimate knowledge of the security situation here in Northern
:53:03. > :53:05.Ireland and indeed from an immigration point of view that will
:53:06. > :53:09.be helpful in relation to dealing with issues like the Common travel
:53:10. > :53:14.area and look forward to taking matters forward with him. He was a
:53:15. > :53:18.remain campaigner and Theresa May was also a Remain campaigner. Does
:53:19. > :53:22.that make you uncomfortable, and easy I'm nervous about them being
:53:23. > :53:28.responsible for delivering Brexit in Northern Ireland? No, not at all
:53:29. > :53:31.because both the Prime Minister and our new Secretary of State has made
:53:32. > :53:36.it very clear that they respected the view of the UK people and they
:53:37. > :53:41.intend to take that forward and indeed the Prime Minister has
:53:42. > :53:45.appointed people who were on the EU exit side of the debate into very
:53:46. > :53:50.significant roles and I am looking forward to having a television --
:53:51. > :53:55.telephone conversation with David Davies in terms of how we take
:53:56. > :53:58.matters forward for Northern Ireland and Liam Fox as well in relation to
:53:59. > :54:03.international trade. I am not nervous at all and actually very
:54:04. > :54:07.reassured at the words from may arrange the union and the importance
:54:08. > :54:12.of two places in the United Kingdom as a whole and I look forward to
:54:13. > :54:15.helping her to make sure that that vision is sustained because I just
:54:16. > :54:19.don't care about Northern Ireland, I care about the whole of the union
:54:20. > :54:25.and I was very pleased to hear her say the same. As we know, 56% of
:54:26. > :54:29.people in Northern Ireland voted to Remain. Martin McGuinness said at
:54:30. > :54:32.the end of last week, he told the new Prime Minister his view remains
:54:33. > :54:37.that the best interest of people here would be served by finding a
:54:38. > :54:41.place for this to remain part of the EU. You don't want that happened but
:54:42. > :54:45.the reality is, that argument is going to be brought forward time and
:54:46. > :54:51.again by people in discussions over the months ahead. Yes, the argument
:54:52. > :54:56.will be brought forward but the reality is that we are part of the
:54:57. > :55:00.UK as a member state and that member state has decided by a referendum by
:55:01. > :55:04.all those people to leave the EU. It doesn't mean that we're leaving
:55:05. > :55:08.Europe, it means that we are leading the institutions of the European
:55:09. > :55:11.Union. My job and Martin McGuinness is to get the best you'll possible
:55:12. > :55:14.for all of the people of Northern Ireland and that's what I'm
:55:15. > :55:18.determined to do. Certainly, it is something that I'm very focused on
:55:19. > :55:22.doing. We have a meeting next week to review the work has been carried
:55:23. > :55:26.out by our officials and is something we will continue to do
:55:27. > :55:32.over the summer. How does the executive come position on this
:55:33. > :55:36.because you and Martin McGuinness do not speak with the one voice on this
:55:37. > :55:41.issue. When James Brokenshire talk about dealing with this issue and
:55:42. > :55:44.coming to an arrangement with the executive, the executive is
:55:45. > :55:49.fundamentally divided on the matter? It's not the first time that we have
:55:50. > :55:54.taken different viewpoints on particular issues but then when we
:55:55. > :55:57.are faced with having to deal with the reality of the situation, we
:55:58. > :56:02.deal with that situation and I have no doubt we will find a position for
:56:03. > :56:06.Northern Ireland as well. I am certainly focused on the fact that I
:56:07. > :56:09.am there for all of the people of Northern Ireland and not just there
:56:10. > :56:13.for the people who voted the office or who voted for Brexit, I am there
:56:14. > :56:16.for ever ready in Northern Ireland and I intend to take forward their
:56:17. > :56:23.views in any of the negotiations follow. We are leaving the European
:56:24. > :56:28.Union, that is the reality. Now, what do we do to make the best out
:56:29. > :56:33.of that for the people of Northern Ireland? The question is, is there a
:56:34. > :56:37.possibility that some kind of special arrangement could be arrived
:56:38. > :56:42.at for Northern Ireland which would satisfy you but also satisfy matters
:56:43. > :56:44.-- Martin McGuinness which is short of Northern Ireland completely
:56:45. > :56:49.leaving the European Union, because that what -- that is what Nicola
:56:50. > :56:53.Sturgeon is talking about, she talked of bed again this morning to
:56:54. > :56:57.and Marr? We start from the very basic part of the whole of the UK is
:56:58. > :57:01.leading the European Union. Do I think there is a possibility that we
:57:02. > :57:04.might have a continuing special relationship with our neighbours in
:57:05. > :57:08.the Republic of Ireland and the whole of Europe, yes, there is a
:57:09. > :57:14.possibility that may happen. Europe has already given us a special
:57:15. > :57:18.position and they already know that Northern Ireland, because a very
:57:19. > :57:21.difficult pass, has had difficulties but the very basic fundamental is
:57:22. > :57:26.that we are leaving the European Union. If we can have continuing
:57:27. > :57:29.good relations with the EU, I am content and I think that would be a
:57:30. > :57:35.very good thing for Northern Ireland to have. It doesn't take away from
:57:36. > :57:40.the issue that we're leaving. With respect, that is not Martin
:57:41. > :57:42.McGuinness's position. He does not accept the fundamental point is
:57:43. > :57:47.Northern Ireland and whatever he chooses to call it, the north or
:57:48. > :57:50.this place, is leading the EU. He doesn't see it that way and expect
:57:51. > :57:56.that is what we will hear from him in a couple of moments. It is fine
:57:57. > :58:00.for you to see that you can force on the changes mind. No, and I can
:58:01. > :58:06.force them to change his mind on a lot of issues but the reality is
:58:07. > :58:10.that we are part of the UK and the UK has voted to leave the EU and
:58:11. > :58:14.that is the reality that we have to deal with now. Should we ignore that
:58:15. > :58:19.fact or should we deal with that fact? Take magnetically very simple
:58:20. > :58:22.fact -- view that we deal with that fact for the best in everyone in
:58:23. > :58:26.Northern Ireland. Worried at first, stations I had after the vote on the
:58:27. > :58:29.referendum was the very major investor in Northern Ireland and has
:58:30. > :58:33.questioned the meat was an we still going to remain within the United
:58:34. > :58:37.Kingdom because that was a critical point him to know. I said we are
:58:38. > :58:41.still going to be in the UK because that is a very strong part of our
:58:42. > :58:45.selling point right across the world. Our membership of the UK is
:58:46. > :58:50.critical and he doesn't agree with that either, that is the reality as
:58:51. > :58:55.well. We know what Scotland has done to deal with this issue, the task
:58:56. > :58:58.force, special meetings, Nicola Sturgeon has been to Brussels,
:58:59. > :59:02.Theresa Villiers has been to Edinburgh. What about the
:59:03. > :59:08.establishment of some kind of all Ireland forum to discuss the issue
:59:09. > :59:12.as it affects the Ireland -- island of Ireland? It is not just about
:59:13. > :59:16.what happens in Northern Ireland but huge ramifications for the public of
:59:17. > :59:20.Ireland as well. It does have big implications for the pub Ireland. We
:59:21. > :59:25.discussed those implications at the North-South ministerial Council. We
:59:26. > :59:29.had a very good discussion and we will continue those discussions.
:59:30. > :59:34.There is absolutely no need for another institution to discuss these
:59:35. > :59:37.issues. I can lift the phone and speak to the Foreign Minister in any
:59:38. > :59:40.of the ministers any time I want. There is no need for another
:59:41. > :59:44.institution to deal with these issues. Thank you very much indeed
:59:45. > :00:00.for joining us. Theresa May clearly doesn't agree
:00:01. > :00:03.with Sinn Fein that there's no need Does James Brokenshire
:00:04. > :00:15.look like someone you'll We will have to work with them as
:00:16. > :00:20.there is no Secretary of State for the knife. Clearly, the last
:00:21. > :00:24.Secretary of State that we had was a cheerleader for both austerities and
:00:25. > :00:29.for Brexit. In my opinion, she didn't stand up to the interests of
:00:30. > :00:33.all the people of the north so I hope that James Brokenshire will
:00:34. > :00:39.recognise how damaging the austerity agenda was and how it should end.
:00:40. > :00:45.But also recognise the wish of the people of the north expressed in the
:00:46. > :00:50.referendum. 56% in favour of staying in Europe and see that our future in
:00:51. > :00:55.Europe must be respected by the British Government and it is
:00:56. > :01:00.significant that Theresa May in the aftermath of her meeting with Nicola
:01:01. > :01:07.Sturgeon in Scotland indicated that she wouldn't trigger Article 50
:01:08. > :01:14.unless all parts, what she be described as the United Kingdom, I
:01:15. > :01:17.satisfied. We are not satisfied. Effectively, that hand the veto to
:01:18. > :01:23.Scotland and to us in the north, then we would use it and I think I
:01:24. > :01:26.can deliver a vote in the assembly which rejects any attempt to drag us
:01:27. > :01:29.against our will out of Europe. He's made it clear that,
:01:30. > :01:32.whatever his views on Brexit before the referendum,
:01:33. > :01:34.the UK is leaving the EU and that means Northern Ireland
:01:35. > :01:37.is coming out too. That much, he says,
:01:38. > :01:58.is not up for discussion. I think it is early days and given
:01:59. > :02:03.that they haven't yet triggered article 50 and when they do so,
:02:04. > :02:07.probably sometime towards the latter end of this year or the early part
:02:08. > :02:11.of next year, or for all we know, a year after that, they are
:02:12. > :02:17.effectively on the issue of the single market and the whole issue of
:02:18. > :02:20.free travel for European nationals. This British Government is involved
:02:21. > :02:24.in a head-on collision with the European Union and who knows what
:02:25. > :02:29.the consequences of all of that could be. One thing I do know from
:02:30. > :02:32.talking to different interest groups across the course of the period from
:02:33. > :02:38.the referendum vote until now is that there is a line within a
:02:39. > :02:43.business committee, within the committee and voluntary sector,
:02:44. > :02:47.large sections of the farming and food industry, within our
:02:48. > :02:51.universities about this decision. I think the fact that the reason they
:02:52. > :03:00.went to Scotland to meet with Nicola Sturgeon was a clear recognition of
:03:01. > :03:04.the fact that as she says going forward, she wants to maintain the
:03:05. > :03:08.union and talks about what she caused the United Kingdom but the
:03:09. > :03:13.reality is there is little united about the UK. Scotland sees their
:03:14. > :03:17.future in Europe, we in the north sea our future in Europe, Wales is
:03:18. > :03:24.very divided on the issue and I think this British Government has to
:03:25. > :03:27.take account of that. We just heard Arlene Foster say they will be an
:03:28. > :03:32.executive meeting this week for you review some of the work that's been
:03:33. > :03:34.done by your senior officials. We heard from James Brokenshire that
:03:35. > :03:37.the Government will want the year the executive's position as far as
:03:38. > :03:43.these Brexit negotiations are concerned in future. You have
:03:44. > :03:46.demonstrated this amply for busy today, you and Arlene Foster do not
:03:47. > :03:50.speak with one voice on this issue. How do we square the circle? Head of
:03:51. > :03:53.the executive movies issue forward when the two people heading up the
:03:54. > :04:02.executive do not agree what happens next? I think what will dictate how
:04:03. > :04:06.all of us move forward in the time ahead is how the British Government
:04:07. > :04:11.determines to deal with Article 50 and whether or not they are going to
:04:12. > :04:16.trigger it. In the event that we find ourselves any situation where
:04:17. > :04:21.they are prepared to drag us out of the EU against our will. She has
:04:22. > :04:29.made it abundantly clear, Theresa Villiers, means that -- Brexit. She
:04:30. > :04:32.is the Prime Minister. -- Theresa May. James Brokenshire has just made
:04:33. > :04:39.it clear he agrees with that 100% as well. What is clear that all of the
:04:40. > :04:45.events we have seen in Britain over the cause of the last number of
:04:46. > :04:49.weeks is that the blitz glassed others in London and Westminster and
:04:50. > :04:56.Downing Street have been in turmoil, they have been in chaos. Such a
:04:57. > :05:01.debacle of politics that this island has not seen for 50 odd years. Who
:05:02. > :05:06.knows happen in the time ahead. One thing is for sure and I accept there
:05:07. > :05:10.is absolute, Arlene Foster and I as leaders of the executive and charged
:05:11. > :05:17.with the responsibility to lead our people forward since the last
:05:18. > :05:21.assembly election, we have a responsibility to work out together
:05:22. > :05:25.how we can move forward and I am willing to do these discussions with
:05:26. > :05:31.Arlene Foster 's and we already have these discussions with her. We have
:05:32. > :05:35.to deal with this very responsibly and iron tends to be very
:05:36. > :05:38.responsible but at the same time, I think that Arlene Foster has to dig
:05:39. > :05:43.head of the fact that Theresa May did clearly state in the aftermath
:05:44. > :05:47.of a meeting with Nicola Sturgeon in Scotland that she wasn't prepared to
:05:48. > :05:52.trigger article 50 unless all others were content. Well, we are not
:05:53. > :05:57.content. Do you take anything positive from James Brokenshire's
:05:58. > :06:02.posit -- commented me that there is, in his view, a hard border need
:06:03. > :06:06.between north and south and the Common travel area will remain in
:06:07. > :06:11.place? Are those not things to be positive about from your
:06:12. > :06:15.prospective? I am totally and absolutely opposed to any sort of
:06:16. > :06:19.border. It would represent a very grievous undermining of the Good
:06:20. > :06:26.Friday Agreement. I do appreciate this comment but at the same time
:06:27. > :06:29.prior to her election as British Prime Minister Theresa May made it
:06:30. > :06:35.clear in an interview which she done in the north that she did envisage a
:06:36. > :06:38.hard border in the event that Northern Ireland was to leave. She
:06:39. > :06:41.is not the only British senior politician to have said that over
:06:42. > :06:43.the course of the referendum debate and I know a lot of outrageous
:06:44. > :06:49.things were said during the referendum debate but we have to be
:06:50. > :06:57.cognisant of the fact that the major issue was swung it for the lead foot
:06:58. > :07:00.was immigration. The racist you kept and the right-wing of the
:07:01. > :07:05.Conservative Party actually won the vote on the basis of that argument.
:07:06. > :07:10.That really does pose a position for us in terms of the ability of EU
:07:11. > :07:14.nationals throughout Europe who can travel to the south of Ireland at
:07:15. > :07:19.any time, they can also travel here for the moment, they will argue that
:07:20. > :07:25.there should be a hard border and I think that would be a huge mistake.
:07:26. > :07:37.Ukip and members of its say they are not racist, but one last question,
:07:38. > :07:41.James Brokenshire had a past role dealing with counterterrorism in the
:07:42. > :07:47.Home Office. How do you feel about that? The great responsibility to do
:07:48. > :07:53.with people who want to plunge us back to the past, Republicans and
:07:54. > :07:58.loyalists, the people who deal with that are the gardai and the PSNI and
:07:59. > :08:05.they have been successful in the watering countless attempts to kill
:08:06. > :08:06.people -- the watering. We will leave it there.
:08:07. > :08:07.Martin McGuinness in Clones, thank you.
:08:08. > :08:11.Now let's take a look back at a momentous week gone past in 60
:08:12. > :08:24.There was a swift changeover at Number 10, but before leaving office
:08:25. > :08:31.David Cameron got some last-minute careers advice. The England old
:08:32. > :08:38.team, there is top gear... There is even, across the big pond...
:08:39. > :08:43.Fascinating suggestions for future jobs, most sound even harder than
:08:44. > :08:49.this. After a trip to the Palace the new trimester emphasised her party's
:08:50. > :08:55.full name, the Conservative and unionist party. We believe in the
:08:56. > :09:00.union, the precious bond between England, Scotland, Wales and
:09:01. > :09:08.Northern Ireland. Another tour Reza lost her job, and despite the damage
:09:09. > :09:11.caused by Eleventh Night bonfires, the Twelfth was generally hailed as
:09:12. > :09:16.a success. This was about celebration. It has gone well and
:09:17. > :09:22.all seems well for the future. And Alex Kane and Allison Morris
:09:23. > :09:34.are here for a final word. We will come on to the conversations
:09:35. > :09:39.there with the First and Deputy First Ministers in a second, but to
:09:40. > :09:43.a cup which to Reza make, what do you think we can expect from the new
:09:44. > :09:49.Tory administration there? I think we will see no move away from the
:09:50. > :09:54.far right we had under the previous bad deflation, Martin McGuinness
:09:55. > :09:59.talk about austerity but there will be no backtracking. No end to the
:10:00. > :10:08.austerity agenda although George Osborne is not in 11 Downing Street?
:10:09. > :10:11.No, to Reza make was always take on security and removing aspects of the
:10:12. > :10:16.European right back from British law, so I think we will see a
:10:17. > :10:23.toughening in that regard. The you agree, Alex? I think what Cameron
:10:24. > :10:28.had was a centre leading to the right, to Theresa May come this is
:10:29. > :10:34.centre right verging on to quite hard right-wing and social economic
:10:35. > :10:39.staff. What about the justice stuff when she was standing on the steps?
:10:40. > :10:44.A lot of what she said about the union was also tied into working
:10:45. > :10:48.class scan the chances who voted Labour, she is getting a soft
:10:49. > :10:53.landing because she wants them on board. Let's talk about James
:10:54. > :11:00.recruiter, Arlene Foster and Martin McGuinness. Where is the common
:11:01. > :11:04.ground? There is virtually none, Martin McGuinness refers to Scotland
:11:05. > :11:10.there any different position from us. The SNP has a strong mandate,
:11:11. > :11:14.most people are singing off the same hymn sheet. We are being controlled
:11:15. > :11:21.by the coalition with two parties who have conflict in views on how
:11:22. > :11:26.Northern Ireland will post it said and one doesn't even want a Brexit.
:11:27. > :11:33.I cannot see how we will find any common ground. The two editions were
:11:34. > :11:38.in sharp relief. We had Arlene Foster saying the fundamental point
:11:39. > :11:42.was we were leaving the EU and Martin McGuinness saying we were not
:11:43. > :11:46.necessarily. There is no common ground whatsoever. They most both be
:11:47. > :11:54.right for slightly the front reasons. You had better explain
:11:55. > :12:03.yourself darts the Reza make said -- Theresa May said Brexit was Brexit,
:12:04. > :12:09.and Nicola Sturgeon said we needed a UK approach before we trickle
:12:10. > :12:16.Article 50, she was asked if that meant she had a veto. It depends if
:12:17. > :12:21.to Theresa May is serious. People say she was always a soft Remainer
:12:22. > :12:27.but I don't believe that. I would be surprised if we're out of the use
:12:28. > :12:31.in. We know there is an executive meeting this week. Of these
:12:32. > :12:35.important conversations are happening in a vacuum with the
:12:36. > :12:42.Assembly not meeting until the beginning of sub timbre. It seems
:12:43. > :12:45.bizarre that are going through a bit of turmoil that will affect our
:12:46. > :12:50.lives and our children's lives for years to come and all the
:12:51. > :12:54.politicians are on holiday. What do you think of the fact that
:12:55. > :13:00.politicians are not at their desks, everyone deserves a holiday but this
:13:01. > :13:05.is a time of huge upheaval. The times are set on expect patients
:13:06. > :13:11.that we would vote to stay in the EU, I think we will see
:13:12. > :13:16.announcements in the next few weeks. How do you see things unfolding? I
:13:17. > :13:19.don't think Article 50 will be triggered soon, to Theresa May will
:13:20. > :13:21.need to find her feet. That's it from us for this political
:13:22. > :13:24.year but we will be back in September with our full range
:13:25. > :13:27.of programmes - The View, Sunday Politics, Stormont Today
:13:28. > :13:29.and Inside Politics. Until then, have a lovely summer
:13:30. > :13:32.break and, from everyone