:01:37. > :01:42.Two weeks and counting, the candidates to be the next Ulster
:01:42. > :01:52.Unionists leader have started their campaign. We ask how they plan to
:01:52. > :01:52.
:01:52. > :30:12.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1700 seconds
:30:12. > :30:16.deny it -- United the be divided Welcome to Sunday Politics in
:30:16. > :30:19.Northern Ireland. The battle for the Ulster Unionist leadership
:30:19. > :30:24.became a two-horse race when the favourite, Danny Kennedy, decided
:30:24. > :30:29.not to enter the running. Now it is a contest between John McCallister
:30:29. > :30:33.and Mike Nesbitt. Who can restore the fortunes of a party in decline?
:30:33. > :30:38.Also, as the excitement builds to London 2012, are there lessons to
:30:38. > :30:42.be learned from our failure to gain from games? Those companies will
:30:42. > :30:45.have that experience and I have no doubt they will get feedback. If
:30:45. > :30:53.they don't, they should and learn lessons from where they are going
:30:53. > :30:56.next and what to do next. With an 11% pay rise for a MLAs on the way?
:30:56. > :31:05.Which one got a respectable result in their school report? Find out in
:31:05. > :31:08.60 seconds. With me for the next 30 minutes is
:31:08. > :31:15.Professor Pete Shirlow from Queen's University and the News Letter's
:31:15. > :31:20.Sam McBride. Let's talk about the contest. What do you think the
:31:20. > :31:25.Ulster Unionists can do to halt the decline in the party's fortunes?
:31:25. > :31:30.is a significant decline, they have lost around 90,000 votes in 1990 --
:31:30. > :31:34.since 1998. They have to do a massive thing to claim back those
:31:34. > :31:39.boats. They need to start with where the votes go. About half of
:31:40. > :31:43.them probably went to the DUP. They realise that there is a significant
:31:43. > :31:48.Unionist electorate which has become this interested at is not
:31:48. > :31:55.articulating any desire to engage with politics. -- has become this
:31:55. > :32:02.interested at is not. They have to build a base but they also have to
:32:02. > :32:07.discuss our opinions. They need to find out where these voters went
:32:07. > :32:11.away. There is an opportunity, it is about bringing people to the
:32:11. > :32:15.electorate. A surprise that Danny Kennedy pulled out. The rumours
:32:15. > :32:20.were going round all week. Was it too much of a poisoned chalice for
:32:20. > :32:26.him? I think he just did not want to run. If he had decided to go for
:32:27. > :32:33.it, he would have got a vote. He probably felt that Mike Nesbitt had
:32:33. > :32:40.support swinging behind him and that he expected to come behind.
:32:40. > :32:44.People might Mike Nesbitt decided to speak to the impartial reporter.
:32:44. > :32:48.He's courted voters have been Fermanagh. If he had decided to run
:32:48. > :32:53.he would have got a significant challenge is and decided he did not
:32:53. > :32:57.want it, for whatever reason. It will be the fastest of
:32:57. > :33:02.leadership races. In two weeks' time we will know who is in charge.
:33:02. > :33:07.We would have liked to debate the issues head to head but the leaders
:33:07. > :33:14.of the Ulster Unionist Party are insisting on separate interviews.
:33:14. > :33:17.First stop, Mike Nesbitt and could he be the next party leader? Before
:33:17. > :33:23.head -- that, let's to get his journey from broadcasters and
:33:23. > :33:27.politicians. -- let's look at. It was as a sports reporter that
:33:27. > :33:32.Mike Nesbitt made his name. He began his career at the BBC, maybe
:33:33. > :33:37.two UTV in 1992, where he remained for 14 years. He announced he was
:33:37. > :33:42.not renewing his contract and after a break, he re-emerged as a
:33:42. > :33:49.Victims' Commission a, a post he resigned from in 2010. -- Victims'
:33:49. > :33:54.Commission Now. He was a party for the ill-fated Conservative and
:33:54. > :33:58.Ulster Unionist alliance. He lost out to Jim Shannon but was elected
:33:58. > :34:01.as the representative for Strangford in 2011. The nine months
:34:01. > :34:05.later he is in the running to become leader of the party. Back
:34:05. > :34:13.his campaign launch in Stormont, he was black by supporters, including
:34:13. > :34:17.his wife and former TV presenter, Lynda Bryans. Last time, the party
:34:17. > :34:23.mood was for continuity. It appears the party mood today is for change.
:34:23. > :34:32.That is why I am standing, to offer a change to revive and revitalise
:34:32. > :34:35.this party. Mike Nesbitt joins us now. You are just in the door of
:34:35. > :34:41.the Ulster Unionist Party and Stormont. What makes you want to be
:34:41. > :34:46.leader? I am sensing in the last week, when Tom shock does with his
:34:46. > :34:50.announcement that he was going to leave, I was in listening mode and
:34:50. > :34:55.I travel as much as I could around the country. It took a lot of calls
:34:55. > :35:02.and messages. It is surprising, to the point of shocking for some
:35:02. > :35:09.people in the Ulster Unionist, and inspiring, but there is a mood
:35:09. > :35:18.Albarn -- among the membership for change. It is not passive, it is a
:35:18. > :35:24.very positive, we won't change. -- we won't change. After 14 years of
:35:24. > :35:28.taking a bashing because of 1998, our membership is saying, it is
:35:28. > :35:33.over, we want to be positive, we want to hold our heads up, we want
:35:33. > :35:36.to say I am proud to be an Ulster Unionists because I believe in
:35:36. > :35:41.values which are for the benefit of all the people of Northern Ireland.
:35:41. > :35:45.This party is back. It could be let that in a different way and seen as
:35:45. > :35:48.a sad reflection on a party that has been no one in its -- has no
:35:48. > :35:54.one in its ranks it believes can take the party forward and someone
:35:54. > :35:58.from the outside? I am not from the outside. You have had a career as a
:35:58. > :36:03.broadcaster. Is that a bad thing? Is it a bad thing not to have your
:36:03. > :36:08.fingerprints over the last 14 years? We used to have 10 MPs and
:36:08. > :36:13.now we have none. Many people are looking and saying, here is a guy
:36:13. > :36:16.who has got different ideas and it is the mood. It is not about the
:36:17. > :36:22.person. They should not be about their leader. It is about capturing
:36:22. > :36:27.the mood of the party and it wants to change positively. What you have
:36:27. > :36:32.set answer for does not sound like change. You do not want to go into
:36:32. > :36:42.opposition, or of tea Unionist Unity, it sounds similar to what we
:36:42. > :36:42.
:36:42. > :36:46.have had? -- of Ulster Unionist unity. I want to bring in an
:36:46. > :36:54.opposition. 14 years ago we could not have possibly survive with a
:36:54. > :37:00.government in opposition. Is that not unlikely because the DUP and
:37:00. > :37:03.Sinn Fein will foot against it? 1998, everybody had a chance to
:37:03. > :37:10.vote in a referendum. There has been significant change, with the
:37:10. > :37:14.St Andrews Agreement. There is small change, in. -- there is more
:37:14. > :37:18.change coming. I would like a referendum on the major
:37:18. > :37:25.constitutional changes that have occurred since 1998 in the Belfast
:37:25. > :37:28.Agreement. Put it to be people, other parties. If they vote along
:37:28. > :37:33.the lines that they voted on to a man, they will say no to opposition
:37:33. > :37:40.and to keep what they have at the moment. They are the party getting
:37:40. > :37:46.support. I was elected by just under 50% of the electorate. I have
:37:46. > :37:50.to reach out of them. In the last two years, when I have fought
:37:50. > :37:53.elections, people come up and say good luck. They have coming up and
:37:53. > :38:03.they have not been thing good luck, they have said good luck and you
:38:03. > :38:06.have to do this, we are be hind the -- behind you. In yesterday's News
:38:06. > :38:09.Letter you mention two policies, getting rid of commissions and
:38:09. > :38:15.quangos and getting were fixed rates for young people. Is that it?
:38:15. > :38:20.No, that is not it. Economy is it, absolutely. I think we could do a
:38:20. > :38:23.lot better. What I would like to have seen coming out of the
:38:23. > :38:29.economic strategy is a message to be unemployed that we will try and
:38:29. > :38:32.get 60,000 new jobs. That sends a message to be 60,000 unemployed,
:38:32. > :38:37.you have less than a one in two chance of your government securing
:38:37. > :38:46.you a job. People might argue 25,000 is more realistic. For some
:38:46. > :38:51.observers, it is not likely? not be aspirational? Let's build a
:38:51. > :38:55.private sector are so poor fund -- so powerful and profitable that we
:38:55. > :38:59.depend less on the block grant, because we have built our own
:38:59. > :39:04.economy that is so robust that we are doing fine. Do you think you
:39:04. > :39:09.will win? That is up to the 2000 members of the Ulster Unionist
:39:09. > :39:17.Party. If they want me. I was at church last Sunday and the sermon
:39:17. > :39:23.was based on the idea that if it is supposed to be, it will happen.
:39:23. > :39:28.you expecting a dirty fight? I do not think there is any evidence it
:39:28. > :39:33.will be a dirty fight. No one in politics set out on a leadership
:39:33. > :39:37.campaign for it to be a dirty fight. This time, the two candidates are
:39:37. > :39:39.much more similar to each other than the last time. Basil McCrea
:39:39. > :39:47.and Tom Elliot were very clearly different people with different
:39:47. > :39:51.agendas. Both Mike Nesbitt and John McCallister are from broadly the
:39:51. > :39:57.Liberal and moderate wing of the Ulster Unionist Party and there is
:39:57. > :40:04.not really a representative of the traditional and classical Ulster
:40:04. > :40:07.Unionist position. In some ways, there is not going to be that much
:40:07. > :40:12.than -- other than the issue of opposition, be big issue between
:40:12. > :40:16.them. What about the idea of a referendum? The Secretary of State
:40:16. > :40:21.will not move on opposition unless the two bigger parties wanted.
:40:21. > :40:25.Could we have a referendum on opposition? Both candidates have a
:40:25. > :40:29.notion that there should be some sort of oppositional politics,
:40:30. > :40:36.which would be good and would be more policy based as opposed to
:40:36. > :40:43.poll based. That is a pork -- important, even when they may
:40:43. > :40:49.achieve it in different ways. Whether there is a referendum is
:40:49. > :40:52.remaining to be seen. They can be very focused in terms of opinion. I
:40:52. > :40:57.think that is a breath of fresher. Both of them realise this will not
:40:57. > :41:00.be quick and it will take time to turn the party around. If you try
:41:00. > :41:03.and do it quickly it will not happen. Both are strong leaders and
:41:03. > :41:08.the thing that is very clear is that they are going to be
:41:08. > :41:15.unambiguous about what they want to do. What is the Ulster Unionist
:41:15. > :41:21.Party? How is it different from the Alliance Party are the DUP? They
:41:21. > :41:25.will set out what the party is and what the party aims to achieve.
:41:25. > :41:30.do not want this to be about a referendum on being in or out of
:41:30. > :41:33.government. The next leader needs to do a good shift. They need to do
:41:34. > :41:41.at least two cycles of Assembly elections. We need to look at where
:41:41. > :41:49.we are going to be not on the 2nd April but on 2nd April 1920 15 and
:41:49. > :41:53.2020. -- 2015. We want to put the people first and build on the
:41:53. > :41:58.economy. We want people have jobs that they actually enjoy. We want
:41:58. > :42:02.people with homes rather than houses. If you have very little
:42:02. > :42:06.influence in the Executive, how can you do that? You cannot make
:42:06. > :42:12.changes to corporation tax Auret difference to the skill set of the
:42:12. > :42:16.workforce? We were the ones proposing corporation tax. I know
:42:16. > :42:19.John says he wants to bring the minister out of the Executive but
:42:19. > :42:23.is he giving up our chairmanships and vice chairmanships, where we
:42:23. > :42:30.will sit in the chamber? Will we have to elbow in between Jim
:42:30. > :42:40.Allister and so -- David McNarry? When the opposition back in? They
:42:40. > :42:45.are'making body. -- they are the policy-making body.
:42:45. > :42:49.John McCallister was the first to declare as a candidate. In a moment
:42:49. > :42:53.we will hear from him, but first, a snapshot of his career so far.
:42:53. > :42:57.A former president of the Young Farmers' Club, John McCallister has
:42:57. > :43:01.enjoyed a speedy rise through the ranks of the Ulster Unionists. He
:43:01. > :43:08.joined just seven years ago and was elected to Stormont in 2007 as
:43:08. > :43:11.member for South Down, winning re- election for years letter. His
:43:11. > :43:16.distinctive delivery and relative youth marked him out among his
:43:16. > :43:19.colleagues. The with the Minister agree that this has an adverse
:43:19. > :43:24.affect on businesses, tourism, commuters right across the Southern
:43:24. > :43:28.Area? Although he back Basil McCrea's unsuccessful bid for the
:43:28. > :43:33.leadership 18 months ago against Tom Elliot, he served as deputy
:43:33. > :43:36.leader and a Tom Elliot as well as chief whip. He is the first -- he
:43:36. > :43:45.was the first candidate to declare when a vacancy came up and set out
:43:45. > :43:48.his stall clearly. This is the important debate to have, whether
:43:48. > :43:53.we were towards closer Unionist co- operation or go into opposition and
:43:53. > :43:57.oppose the government and support them if they are right? We need to
:43:57. > :44:02.set out a clear agenda of what is good for Northern Ireland. That is
:44:02. > :44:07.what I think Ulster Unionism at its best is and should be about. John
:44:07. > :44:10.McCallister joins us now. Good afternoon. Is it a brave or foolish
:44:10. > :44:16.move to declare your hand on opposition so early in the race and
:44:16. > :44:20.set it out as a competition between opposition and what every his Mike
:44:20. > :44:25.Nesbitt is standing for? There is no point in going into a race and
:44:25. > :44:29.heading -- hedging your bets. Tell people about the change you will
:44:30. > :44:34.bring. People are probably refreshed to hear people say what
:44:34. > :44:37.they are going to do. That is where I would lead the party. How will
:44:37. > :44:42.the work? It is an informal opposition you are talking about,
:44:42. > :44:47.not one that is legislated for, is that right? That is right. There is
:44:47. > :44:51.no structure at the moment. Are you seriously going to tell me that we
:44:51. > :44:55.should not do this because Peter and Martin say we can't? This is
:44:55. > :45:00.about saying, do you agree with the principles of opposition? We are
:45:00. > :45:05.going to take a first step and co- owner and be in opposition, formal
:45:05. > :45:09.or informal, we will be in opposition and hold this
:45:09. > :45:19.administration to a card and provide people with an alternative
:45:19. > :45:25.
:45:25. > :45:31.Howwood that work? -- how would that work. The only position you
:45:31. > :45:36.would lose was the one ministerial. I think it improves the Government.
:45:36. > :45:43.Where we were in 1998, it was sensible to have an inclusive form
:45:43. > :45:48.of government to get us from where we were, coming out of conflict. It
:45:48. > :45:54.is a healthy thing to have an opposition. Every democratic system
:45:54. > :46:01.in the world has an opposition or checks and balances on power. That
:46:01. > :46:07.is what we need. This is what most people in politics think has to
:46:07. > :46:12.happen. The it has been reported you do not have a lot of support in
:46:12. > :46:16.the Assembly group, who seemed to be going for Mike Nesbitt. If you
:46:16. > :46:19.were as successful, how would you convince them it would be a good
:46:19. > :46:27.idea to give up the one piece of power you have around the Executive
:46:27. > :46:32.table? The one piece of power sums it up. Why hang about for a few
:46:32. > :46:36.crumbs from the table and let the Deputy First Minister decide when
:46:37. > :46:41.we can speak and what we can do and what policies we adopt? That is not
:46:41. > :46:51.what we want. We need to break out and change the politics and move
:46:51. > :46:57.
:46:57. > :47:01.away from the calf up a type of We are regarded as the least
:47:01. > :47:10.influential party in the Executive, and that is not helpful to a party
:47:10. > :47:17.trying to reconnect. Just being in there for one tiny crumb is not
:47:17. > :47:22.reason enough. You need an identity and message. This is about working
:47:22. > :47:27.the Systems in Stormont and it is healthy for democracy. How do you
:47:27. > :47:37.convince them? I have not asked my colleagues for support. I have
:47:37. > :47:39.
:47:39. > :47:45.taken this message to the party faithful. MLAs' votes can the same.
:47:45. > :47:55.It is an one member, one Vogue party. That is the message I am
:47:55. > :48:00.
:48:00. > :48:07.saying to the party -- won a vote party. I want to ask them. This is
:48:07. > :48:10.a real change. I do not have the party machinery supporting me, I am
:48:10. > :48:16.committed to taking the argument out to the people and the
:48:16. > :48:24.membership. Do you think you will win? I would not be better in your
:48:24. > :48:30.house on it, but I will give it my best shot. Whoever wins has to
:48:31. > :48:40.behind the leader. Mike Nesbitt suggested that we have a referendum
:48:41. > :48:45.
:48:45. > :48:50.on changing the style of Stormont. A referendum. You had a referendum
:48:50. > :48:54.on the Good Friday Agreement. It did not mean everybody accepted it.
:48:54. > :49:00.You need to make the argument to people. If they agree with it, they
:49:00. > :49:09.will vote for that. The reason I think our vote has gone, we have
:49:09. > :49:13.tried been in the Executive as a smaller party. We have had two
:49:13. > :49:22.ministers and the boat going down to one minister. We are not getting
:49:22. > :49:27.the credit -- of the vote. You need an alternative. You, as a voter,
:49:27. > :49:34.have no way of changing the Government. That is not healthy in
:49:34. > :49:40.democracy. Do you think this idea will win round members who were not
:49:40. > :49:45.connected to Stormont? The truth is that nobody knows. There has never
:49:45. > :49:49.been a poll of opinion in the Unionist Party. He was saying
:49:49. > :49:56.earlier he did not want it just to be a referendum, it is difficult to
:49:56. > :50:01.see how that is not the main issue. It is possibly a majority, there is
:50:01. > :50:08.a big chunk of the party, but if it is the most important thing to that
:50:08. > :50:12.chunk of the party, to take on the DUP from the opposition benches, if
:50:12. > :50:16.that chunk of the party is big enough and see this as the only way
:50:16. > :50:24.to get to opposition, John McCallister might do better than
:50:24. > :50:28.some people think. This is a massive issue. And what happened
:50:28. > :50:38.with Tom Elliott. Do you think that either candidate can end the
:50:38. > :50:41.
:50:41. > :50:50.division? Do smack mend. Elliott was a continuity choice.
:50:51. > :50:56.The key is that something big has to change. A problem I have with
:50:56. > :51:02.the UUP is I came back from England in 1983 and most had never been to
:51:02. > :51:08.my door asking me to vote for them. Everybody else has. How do they
:51:08. > :51:13.mobilise the membership? Others are better at doing it. One of the keys
:51:13. > :51:20.for the leader is putting energy into the party. If the energy and
:51:20. > :51:25.commitment is there, you can go anywhere. John, how do you bring
:51:25. > :51:33.energy back into the party, is it about knocking on doors? Absolutely.
:51:33. > :51:39.You have to get out. You have to engage with people. And listen to
:51:40. > :51:48.the good and the bad that people are telling you. I have done
:51:48. > :51:53.serious can then -- canvassing in my constituency. That does pay off.
:51:53. > :52:00.It is about giving a central message of what you stand for and
:52:01. > :52:07.the direction of the party. That would be my job if elected to, to
:52:07. > :52:12.give the message. We would be in listening mode. We would want to
:52:12. > :52:17.present ideas to the public and be the alternative at the next
:52:18. > :52:23.election. Interesting to see how the next two weeks passed out.
:52:23. > :52:27.If it is over four months to the start of the greatest show on earth.
:52:27. > :52:32.The London Olympics. Apart from brief training camps, what has
:52:32. > :52:38.Northern Ireland gained from the games? There are some flashing
:52:39. > :52:43.images in this report. It is 5:30am. These young swimmers
:52:43. > :52:51.start a two-hour training session. It takes dedication from the
:52:51. > :52:56.youngsters, coaches and parents. swimming means my life. I am in
:52:56. > :53:01.seven times a week. That is all I think about. It is an important
:53:01. > :53:09.sport. It keeps you fit and it is all I have known. This is where the
:53:09. > :53:16.swimmers won to be in a few months' time. At the Olympics. Young
:53:16. > :53:25.hopefuls are training every day in the 50 metre facilities. They will
:53:25. > :53:30.have a 10 lame of Paul, 50 metres. -- as swimming pool with 10 lanes.
:53:30. > :53:36.They have testing rooms. They have what you would be looking for Team
:53:36. > :53:45.G B to have. They get that 24 hours a day. A taking shape on the
:53:45. > :53:50.outside -- outskirts of Bangor is the new swimming pool. It has been
:53:50. > :53:55.delayed. It was due to open two years ago. Because of difficulties
:53:55. > :54:00.with government finance, that date had to be postponed from this
:54:00. > :54:05.summer. An unavoidable problem in the building work, when beams were
:54:05. > :54:10.damaged, meant another delay. It will not be open until next
:54:10. > :54:14.February at the earliest. Despite that, it is regarded as a new dawn
:54:14. > :54:24.for sport in Northern Ireland, and the minister is due here this week
:54:24. > :54:31.to name the swimming pool. They have been working flat out and I am
:54:31. > :54:38.told they are on target. I went down to visit it. If I find out
:54:38. > :54:44.anything different, I will hold them to account. I will -- am sure
:54:44. > :54:49.it will be done. The swimming pool will not be delivered in 2012, but
:54:49. > :54:55.neither it seems will there be a boost for companies tendering for
:54:55. > :54:59.work. 1500 contracts were handed out worth �5 billion. Most
:54:59. > :55:06.successful firms were in the south- east of England. In Northern
:55:06. > :55:12.Ireland, 43 companies have won contracts. Less than 1% of the
:55:12. > :55:17.total awarded. One of the few local firms to secure work is this one in
:55:17. > :55:24.Belfast. The company has around �7 million of business, including the
:55:24. > :55:29.fitter out of the media centre. That was a year and a half of pre-
:55:29. > :55:35.qualification and interviews and network events. It was hard work.
:55:35. > :55:39.We were determined there was opportunity in the London region.
:55:39. > :55:44.We did not succeed as much as we would have liked to have done but
:55:44. > :55:49.it put a foot in the door and the companies will have that experience.
:55:49. > :55:55.I have no doubt they will get feedback. They should learn lessons
:55:55. > :56:00.on what to do next. This Economist says it is disappointing that the
:56:00. > :56:04.share of the spoils is so minimal for Northern Ireland. The one of
:56:04. > :56:11.the demonstrated effects of an Olympic Games is that it encourages
:56:11. > :56:17.people to participate in sport. Over the next few years, I think we
:56:17. > :56:22.will see more people. That is a social benefit and also benefits us
:56:22. > :56:26.financially and economically by reducing costs to health and social
:56:26. > :56:30.services looking after people. You would be forgiven there were no
:56:30. > :56:40.other political stories this week. But there were other stories making
:56:40. > :56:41.
:56:41. > :56:47.headlines for a -- headlines. Mary McCardle was jailed for her
:56:47. > :56:55.role in the murder of a magistrate's daughter. I want to
:56:55. > :57:03.achieve something for my sister's memory. Claims a former Taoiseach
:57:03. > :57:11.viewed the murder of soldiers as a political act. MLAs will get a pay
:57:11. > :57:18.rise. Three men emerged as possible new leaders of the UUP, only for
:57:18. > :57:23.the favourite to change his mind. Robinson and Martin McGuinness were
:57:23. > :57:31.quizzed by school children. answered my questions to a
:57:31. > :57:41.respectable standard. I spend so much time preparing this exciting
:57:41. > :57:45.
:57:45. > :57:50.speech, and there they are, having a conversation.
:57:50. > :57:57.People have been vocal about the pay issue this week. When it go
:57:57. > :58:02.ahead? I think it will go ahead. They have sourced it to this body.
:58:02. > :58:06.They did not want to vote it through. They did not conceive the
:58:06. > :58:11.independent body might cut something else. Given the number of
:58:11. > :58:18.MLAs we have, it is difficult to see how they can reverse that and