:00:37. > :00:38.Good morning, and welcome to the Sunday Politics.
:00:39. > :00:40.Not good enough - that is Theresa May's
:00:41. > :00:45.own verdict on the response to the Grenfell Tower fire,
:00:46. > :00:48.but that is also what a growing number are saying about her
:00:49. > :00:52.Having failed to win a majority, Mrs May will face a daily battle
:00:53. > :00:57.to win the votes she needs in Parliament, which is maybe why
:00:58. > :01:00.the new Leader of the Commons has already cancelled next year's
:01:01. > :01:09.And Labour are claiming the Government isn't legitimate.
:01:10. > :01:12.And in half an hour: Arlene Foster on corporation tax,
:01:13. > :01:16.the Queen's speech and her role in bringing "stability" to the UK.
:01:17. > :01:18.Plus what does Sinn Fein make of it all?
:01:19. > :01:28.Are we any closer to devolution coming back?
:01:29. > :01:30.And with me to discuss all of that and more,
:01:31. > :01:34.three journalists who always defy expectations - Steve Richards,
:01:35. > :01:37.Julia Hartley-Brewer, and Tom Newton Dunn.
:01:38. > :01:42.And they'll be tweeting throughout the programme.
:01:43. > :01:43.Theresa May's authority was already in freefall even
:01:44. > :01:46.before her faltering handling of the appalling disaster
:01:47. > :01:51.Yesterday she admitted the official response had not been good enough.
:01:52. > :01:57.This morning's front pages, as well as reflecting the full
:01:58. > :01:59.horror of that tragedy, are also full of claims
:02:00. > :02:01.that her critics are circling and ready to pounce,
:02:02. > :02:08.though none, as yet, have come out publicly.
:02:09. > :02:10.Her Chancellor, Philip Hammond, was asked about the Prime Minister's
:02:11. > :02:14.position on the Andrew Marr Show earlier.
:02:15. > :02:21.I think what the country needs now is a period of calm while we get on
:02:22. > :02:24.with the job in hand. We've got some very serious issues to address,
:02:25. > :02:30.including the Brexit negotiations are just starting. Theresa is
:02:31. > :02:34.leading the Government and I think the Government needs to get on with
:02:35. > :02:37.his job. The you know what? I think that is what most people in the
:02:38. > :02:42.country will think - the Government needs to get on with the day job of
:02:43. > :02:49.Government. Get on with the day job, Tom - is that what they are saying
:02:50. > :02:52.in private? Some are. I was at lunch with a minister on Thursday who
:02:53. > :02:56.said, we need to get this thing sorted now because if we go one like
:02:57. > :02:59.this with the Prime Minister without any power at all, we will end up in
:03:00. > :03:03.a John Major situation and it will only get worse. Talking to people
:03:04. > :03:08.this week, I don't think that is the predominant view. That seems to be
:03:09. > :03:13.that she has to stay for the time being, at least until conference,
:03:14. > :03:16.and possibly as far as the end of the Brexit negotiations, because
:03:17. > :03:21.there is no real alternative, no obvious person who can come in. The
:03:22. > :03:23.last thing they want to do now is have an unbelievably divisive
:03:24. > :03:28.leadership contest and rip up the very thin consensus that currently
:03:29. > :03:33.still exist on Brexit and go back to square one. Journalist in London are
:03:34. > :03:40.now searching for whom Tom had lunch with on Thursday. Julia, is that
:03:41. > :03:43.sustainable in public? The Prime Minister's authority was already in
:03:44. > :03:49.free fall and she has not handled this disaster well. After the 1922
:03:50. > :03:53.committee meeting, they said, she handled this well and can handle
:03:54. > :04:01.this stuff. It was astoundingly poorly handled. Both practically and
:04:02. > :04:05.in terms of PR. The question is, is she capable of changing and behaving
:04:06. > :04:13.in a different way? Her selling point running for the leadership
:04:14. > :04:20.was, I don't do emotion and I am steady as she goes. It has not been,
:04:21. > :04:22.so if you don't have the touchy-feely Tony Blair David
:04:23. > :04:26.Cameron stuff, and you don't have strong and stable, you are kind of
:04:27. > :04:32.left with nothing. It's not that people don't want her, they just
:04:33. > :04:41.don't want the alternative. Steve, you have studied and lived through
:04:42. > :04:47.many of these situations that cannot go on, but often it does. For one
:04:48. > :04:50.thing, there is a fear of an early election, where MPs will think, we
:04:51. > :04:56.might lose our seats, so we must stop that from happening. Fear the
:04:57. > :05:08.leadership contest by which some freakish sequence they elect another
:05:09. > :05:14.dud. 74-79, Gordon Brown after the nonelection, and he survived several
:05:15. > :05:19.coups. This is a hung parliament where she has lost an overall
:05:20. > :05:24.majority, and I think there are questions about whether she herself
:05:25. > :05:28.is ready for the mountainous, daunting assent to come. One of the
:05:29. > :05:33.reasons that Gordon Brown succeeded and carried on, Steve, was that
:05:34. > :05:38.other people concluded they might not be better at the big job in
:05:39. > :05:42.hand, then the economic crisis. Is there a chance that now, for all the
:05:43. > :05:49.criticism of her, people say, know what, she is the best handle Brexit?
:05:50. > :05:53.They want her to carry the can for Brexit and everything. No one wants
:05:54. > :05:59.the leadership, whether it is Boris Johnson, David Davis or anyone else,
:06:00. > :06:03.unless they can ride up on their white steed and save the day. Also,
:06:04. > :06:08.Brexit will not be the most beautiful experience. There will be
:06:09. > :06:12.compromises and pain. A lot of people think, we will get her to
:06:13. > :06:17.sign the ?50 billion cheque, someone else can come in on a white horse
:06:18. > :06:21.and save the day. Bets from journalists are not a clever thing
:06:22. > :06:26.to do, but are you all saying that you think she will survive for some
:06:27. > :06:32.time? I think she will, but I'm not sure how long. Philip Hammond didn't
:06:33. > :06:36.answer the question because he doesn't know either. I think she
:06:37. > :06:42.will for some time. A week ago, I thought there would be an election
:06:43. > :06:44.in the autumn. I didn't make a prediction of the election outcome,
:06:45. > :06:50.so I didn't get it wrong, but I didn't get it right either. If she
:06:51. > :06:52.doesn't screw up, she will probably last until the end of Brexit. For
:06:53. > :06:55.the moment, thank you very much. Theresa May's failure to win
:06:56. > :06:58.a majority after a disastrous election campaign has
:06:59. > :07:00.left her critics returning to that famous phrase once used
:07:01. > :07:02.by Norman Lamont to describe John Major - in office,
:07:03. > :07:04.but not in power. Short of MPs and shorn
:07:05. > :07:06.of her closest advisers, she now faces a disgruntled party,
:07:07. > :07:10.an emboldened opposition, the start of Brexit negotiations and,
:07:11. > :07:17.as we've been saying, claims that she has mishandled
:07:18. > :07:19.a national crisis. When Theresa May finally visited
:07:20. > :07:21.residents at the scene of the Grenfell Tower fire,
:07:22. > :07:24.she was jeered by some residents, Many questions have been raised,
:07:25. > :07:30.of course, about successive Governments' approach to fire
:07:31. > :07:33.regulation, as well as the speed and scale of the official
:07:34. > :07:37.response to the disaster. This crisis comes at a time
:07:38. > :07:40.when the Prime Minister is still trying to construct
:07:41. > :07:44.a Commons majority by securing the support of the ten MPs
:07:45. > :07:46.of Northern Ireland's The DUP is demanding more funding
:07:47. > :07:51.for Northern Ireland and is thought to want a series of Conservative
:07:52. > :08:02.manifesto promises dropped. This means that Wednesday's Queen's
:08:03. > :08:04.Speech, when the Government sets out its plans for the year, will -
:08:05. > :08:07.in the words of one Controversial plans like reversing
:08:08. > :08:11.the ban on opening new grammar schools, ending free lunches
:08:12. > :08:13.at English primary schools, and the scheme designed to reform
:08:14. > :08:15.social care funding are all likely to be scaled down or
:08:16. > :08:18.dropped altogether. The Government has scrapped next
:08:19. > :08:24.year's Queen's speech and is planning a rare
:08:25. > :08:26.two-year Parliament to give more time for MPs to debate
:08:27. > :08:29.Brexit, it says, but its critics say the Government
:08:30. > :08:32.is running scared. Because, of course, what hangs over
:08:33. > :08:35.everything the Government now does is the small matter
:08:36. > :08:37.of negotiating our way out Well, to discuss all of this,
:08:38. > :08:48.I'm joined by the newly appointed leader of the Commons,
:08:49. > :08:56.Andrea Leadsom. Good morning, and thanks for coming
:08:57. > :09:03.on the programme. The election seems a lifetime ago, but then, the
:09:04. > :09:05.Conservative Party promised strong and stable leadership. It's not
:09:06. > :09:11.unreasonable to say that you don't look strong or stable and there's
:09:12. > :09:16.not a lot of leadership. The last couple of weeks have been extremely
:09:17. > :09:19.devastating, and I think the real focus of the Government over the
:09:20. > :09:24.last week since that awful tragedy at Grenfell Tower has been trying to
:09:25. > :09:28.ensure that everything is being done for the victims. I know there has
:09:29. > :09:31.been a big narrative about what could have been done better and so
:09:32. > :09:35.on, but in truth, the Prime Minister has had a job to do, and she really
:09:36. > :09:41.has focused on trying to make sure that the residents are taking care
:09:42. > :09:44.of, and that's got to be the priority. Why did you go and meet
:09:45. > :09:49.them to hear their anger and pain but she initially did not? I was
:09:50. > :09:53.there as the new Leader of the House of Commons and had helped to arrange
:09:54. > :09:59.an emergency briefing for MPs and peers the previous day, and it was
:10:00. > :10:03.so apparent how desperately moved and sympathetic and distraught all
:10:04. > :10:07.MPs were, right across the House. Which raises the question of why the
:10:08. > :10:18.Prime Minister did not go. She had a job to do. Too busy? No, but she
:10:19. > :10:22.needed to ensure that what the residents needed, sorting out bank
:10:23. > :10:25.accounts, mobile phones, trauma counselling and accommodation, she
:10:26. > :10:31.was trying to get a handle on all of that to make sure that those things
:10:32. > :10:33.were taking care of. She issued a statement yesterday saying the
:10:34. > :10:39.response was not good enough. The one nudges and winks from her
:10:40. > :10:43.advisers that it was not done properly. Do you think the Prime
:10:44. > :10:48.Minister did not get this right? I think we are all very conscious that
:10:49. > :10:54.the support wasn't good enough in the first couple of days. Obviously,
:10:55. > :10:59.all local councils are geared up to try and deal with the relief from
:11:00. > :11:04.disasters such as this, but this is unprecedented, this is absolutely
:11:05. > :11:08.harrowing, and I know that the council did everything they could
:11:09. > :11:13.with massive support. People are furious, and with good reason. I
:11:14. > :11:17.hear you say that you understand and you feel people's pain. The Prime
:11:18. > :11:23.Minister was busy, the council did their bit, so who got it wrong?
:11:24. > :11:28.Someone has to be held responsible. Absolutely right, and as I am trying
:11:29. > :11:31.to explain, the council really... And I rang the chief executive to
:11:32. > :11:36.try and give specific feedback from some of the residents. He was
:11:37. > :11:40.absolutely trying to put the right people in place to deal with that.
:11:41. > :11:44.We had a lot of feedback from community leaders. So the council
:11:45. > :11:47.would be replaced? We are hearing talk of someone being drafted in to
:11:48. > :11:52.replace them because they are not doing well enough. The Prime
:11:53. > :11:55.Minister has decided to bring in very experienced civil servants to
:11:56. > :11:58.improve and to add to the resources of the local council so that issues
:11:59. > :12:03.can be addressed much more quickly and with greater experience and
:12:04. > :12:07.precision, quite rightly. Part of the problem with what may have led
:12:08. > :12:13.to the fire and what is happening now is that no one thinks anyone is
:12:14. > :12:19.in charge. When you talk about who could is -- who keeps people save,
:12:20. > :12:22.is it the council, the people who manage the block, is at the fire
:12:23. > :12:29.brigade, the people who inspect the work, the Government? No one knows
:12:30. > :12:33.who is in charge. In this specific case, the Prime Minister is now in
:12:34. > :12:37.charge of the committee that is bringing together all necessary
:12:38. > :12:41.resources, but I think you make a very good question, Nick - we do
:12:42. > :12:46.need to understand better how we can ensure that this just cannot happen
:12:47. > :12:50.again. By clear lines of responsibility. This is horrific.
:12:51. > :12:57.Yes, all those lessons need to be learnt about if I may, there are two
:12:58. > :13:01.aspects: Dealing with the very real, pressing, urgent needs of those
:13:02. > :13:04.poor, absolutely horrified and traumatised victims, and then this
:13:05. > :13:08.bigger question about who should be in charge and where the buck stops
:13:09. > :13:13.and who should be in control. They are two separate issues. When you
:13:14. > :13:22.hear the rage, and it is rage can I ask a personal question? Do you feel
:13:23. > :13:27.shame as a politician? Of course. We all think, what could we have done
:13:28. > :13:32.or should we have done? It's just unbearable. You know, this cannot
:13:33. > :13:36.happen in the 21st century, and yet it has. If it weren't for this, this
:13:37. > :13:40.would still be a huge week in politics, with the Queen 's speech
:13:41. > :13:43.coming, a new parliament, and you have been appointed Leader of the
:13:44. > :13:48.Commons, in charge of Government business. Why have you already,
:13:49. > :13:53.almost your first act as Leader of the Commons, scrapped the next Queen
:13:54. > :14:00.'s speech, next year's, to make sure that the parliament last for two
:14:01. > :14:05.years and not one, unusually? It happened in 2005 and 2010. It didn't
:14:06. > :14:09.happen during the war or during other crises. It is the rate of
:14:10. > :14:13.legislation rather than crises. There is a lot of legislation to go
:14:14. > :14:17.through. And we're leaving the EU at the end of March 2019, so having a
:14:18. > :14:22.two-year period in which to bring together parliament and Government
:14:23. > :14:26.to really make progress with legislation that is essential to
:14:27. > :14:29.making a real success of Brexit, there are some big advantages, it's
:14:30. > :14:34.all a bit technical, but as you will know, select committees don't have
:14:35. > :14:37.to ditch enquiries, bills don't have to be carried forward, and there
:14:38. > :14:42.will be more Parliamentary time for scrutiny... The advantages, you
:14:43. > :14:46.don't have to risk another Queen 's speech which you might lose. In
:14:47. > :14:50.other words, having two years makes it just a little bit easier for the
:14:51. > :14:55.Government to survive than it might otherwise be.
:14:56. > :15:02.I want to be clear, that is not any reason for doing this. There are
:15:03. > :15:08.plenty of opportunities if you want to speculate on problems for the
:15:09. > :15:15.Government. The point about this two year Parliament is it enables us to
:15:16. > :15:20.get the work of leaving the EU done, but the same time we have a
:15:21. > :15:23.legislative programme to tackle the issues of inequality, lack of
:15:24. > :15:28.opportunity, and we want to have a good run at that at this difficult
:15:29. > :15:34.time. You have yet to unveil the deal with the DUP, I assume we will
:15:35. > :15:39.see that tomorrow, we do, how many parts of the manifesto will have to
:15:40. > :15:46.be ditched? There are lengthy conversations now with the DUP and
:15:47. > :15:51.we share a number of interests in common, ensuring we make a success
:15:52. > :15:57.of Brexit and there's no hard border between the Republic of Ireland and
:15:58. > :16:00.Northern Ireland. They will brace against hard austerity, so some of
:16:01. > :16:05.the tough things you're doing in your manifesto like scrapping all
:16:06. > :16:09.meals in England for example, changing the social care system,
:16:10. > :16:14.ending the winter fuel allowance for some people, they will go, won't
:16:15. > :16:19.they? We don't ever talk about the Queen's speech in advance, the Queen
:16:20. > :16:23.will make those announcements on Wednesday. I'm preparing people for
:16:24. > :16:28.the fact that some of the things you said in the manifesto will have to
:16:29. > :16:35.go? The issue is that we have an enormous job to do to make a success
:16:36. > :16:39.of Brexit and we have huge ambitions for a social, domestic legislative
:16:40. > :16:43.programme that will improve life opportunities and reduce
:16:44. > :16:49.inequalities in this nation. Is that's a long winded way of saying
:16:50. > :16:55.yes? We will prioritise those things. You went to the country and
:16:56. > :16:59.Theresa May went to the country asking for a Brexit mandate and you
:17:00. > :17:08.didn't get one, the country didn't give you a majority. As one of the
:17:09. > :17:14.leading campaigners for Leave, does that make you conclude something has
:17:15. > :17:18.to change? Overrated percent voted for parties who stood on manifestos
:17:19. > :17:24.for leaving the EU so I don't recognise what you say that we don't
:17:25. > :17:28.have a mandate for Brexit. We do. At the referendum last year and also
:17:29. > :17:32.the results of the general election. As I say, over 80% of people voting
:17:33. > :17:37.for parties that will respect the result of the referendum. Had on
:17:38. > :17:41.television this morning Kier Starmer of the Labour Party saying he wanted
:17:42. > :17:51.to stay in the customs union, in other words you may have a majority
:17:52. > :17:54.for the headlines, but the detail there is no majority for, no
:17:55. > :17:58.agreement on and what I'm really asking you is whether you will have
:17:59. > :18:03.to reach out to find that sort of agreement. In my new job as Leader
:18:04. > :18:08.of the House of Commons, it will be important to listen to all members
:18:09. > :18:12.right across The House, but I think it is extremely clear that in
:18:13. > :18:18.leaving the EU we will be taking back control of our laws, our
:18:19. > :18:23.borders, our money, and that means leaving the single market, it means
:18:24. > :18:27.giving up on free movement. It means taking back those laws, putting them
:18:28. > :18:36.into UK law and being able to change them. If it takes time, in other
:18:37. > :18:40.words if that is the agreed and objective but to take some time and
:18:41. > :18:44.the Chancellor says, you know what, we need two or three years for
:18:45. > :18:54.business to be clear, for there to be no so-called cliff edges, do you
:18:55. > :18:59.say you have the time? The negotiation begins tomorrow. It is
:19:00. > :19:05.going to be very, you know, strong on all sides, but certainly my
:19:06. > :19:09.experience from talking to other EU politicians is that they absolutely
:19:10. > :19:17.recognise the desire as we do for a strong partnership and for there to
:19:18. > :19:21.be low tariff... I asked about time, and the reason is let's not use the
:19:22. > :19:27.word speculation, the Chancellor on the television this morning said
:19:28. > :19:31.time, no cliff edges, time. Where you have politicians across the EU
:19:32. > :19:38.and the UK who share the desire for a successful outcome with lower
:19:39. > :19:41.tariffs, zero nontariff barriers, free trade between ourselves, it
:19:42. > :19:48.should be possible to meet the time frame. In other words no
:19:49. > :19:53.transitional arrangements? I am extremely optimistic there is a lot
:19:54. > :19:57.we can agree on. I am just saying to you, my expectation is there will be
:19:58. > :20:01.a lot we can agree on and that will facilitate a smooth transition. It
:20:02. > :20:05.is clear Theresa May will not be running as your leader at the next
:20:06. > :20:11.general election, so when is the right time for the party to consider
:20:12. > :20:18.who will be leading next? Before or after Brexit? That is absolutely a
:20:19. > :20:23.statement I would reject. You cannot see into the future. We have seen a
:20:24. > :20:27.lot of change in recent weeks and months. The Prime Minister has done
:20:28. > :20:31.a fantastic job in bringing the country back to a good place since
:20:32. > :20:38.she has been the leader and Prime Minister. She is determined to
:20:39. > :20:43.continue... She might lead the party into another election. I don't look
:20:44. > :20:49.into the future. Let's put it another way, do you think there is a
:20:50. > :20:53.chance some of the Conservative will lead the Brexit negotiations? I
:20:54. > :21:00.think the Prime Minister will lead the Brexit negotiations. She has led
:21:01. > :21:07.preparations extremely well and determinedly on behalf of the whole
:21:08. > :21:12.country. And in that two years for the negotiation, it may be in need
:21:13. > :21:16.time to save can look ahead to who our next leader is. I think it is
:21:17. > :21:20.unhelpful to speculate on the future in that way. We need a coming
:21:21. > :21:26.together, a recognition that all people need to have their say, and
:21:27. > :21:31.strong leadership that can take us forward. Theresa May with her
:21:32. > :21:38.Cabinet are determined to provide that. Are you believed you didn't
:21:39. > :21:47.get the job? I supported the Prime Minister. -- are you relieve you
:21:48. > :21:51.didn't get the job? I am completely backing Theresa May as our Prime
:21:52. > :21:56.Minister. Thank you for taking the time to join does.
:21:57. > :21:58.Whilst Theresa May and the Government have been struggling
:21:59. > :22:00.to deal with the disaster at Grenfell Tower, Jeremy Corbyn
:22:01. > :22:03.was hailed by residents after his visit to the area on Thursday.
:22:04. > :22:06.Is Labour properly reflecting and channelling the public's anger,
:22:07. > :22:08.or are they exploiting it - playing political games,
:22:09. > :22:12.I'm joined now by the Shadow Local Government Secretary and Labour's
:22:13. > :22:25.Good morning. There is a lot of anger on the streets, much of it
:22:26. > :22:29.understandable that other people will share, but as the main
:22:30. > :22:35.opposition party, do you have a responsibility to calm it down
:22:36. > :22:41.rather than turn it up? I don't think we are stirring it up, I would
:22:42. > :22:45.hope that we have been fully responsible in reflecting the
:22:46. > :22:51.concerns, the anxieties, the hurt and worry of those residents in
:22:52. > :22:56.Kensington. I want to pay tribute to the community that pulls together in
:22:57. > :23:02.the face of adversity. Can't even begin to think of the pain that
:23:03. > :23:06.people are going through, the hurt that community is going through, and
:23:07. > :23:10.yet they have pulled together to look after one another to do some of
:23:11. > :23:15.the things that statutory authorities should be doing, and I
:23:16. > :23:19.think it is right and proper that we get to the bottom of what has
:23:20. > :23:24.happened in this dreadful tragedy, and make sure we put right
:23:25. > :23:28.everything that needs putting right so we never, ever experienced
:23:29. > :23:34.anything as horrific as this again. I want to talk about how that might
:23:35. > :23:42.be done in a second. You safe Labour are coming down. Clive Lewis tweeted
:23:43. > :23:47.Burn Neo Liberalism not People, do you think that is responsible at a
:23:48. > :23:54.time like this? I think it is important we are measured in our
:23:55. > :24:00.approach here. Is that measured? Clive will answer for what he has
:24:01. > :24:05.tweeted. There is an issue here that we have had seven years of cuts to
:24:06. > :24:09.our public services. Local authorities don't have the resources
:24:10. > :24:16.that they need to be able to provide some of the most basic services. The
:24:17. > :24:21.Fire Service is under resourced as well, and there are issues. This
:24:22. > :24:24.probably isn't the time to go into them, but there are issues that need
:24:25. > :24:28.to be resolved about how we make sure that health and safety
:24:29. > :24:33.regulation isn't seen as a burden on business, isn't seen as unnecessary
:24:34. > :24:39.red tape, it's about saving lives and protecting people. Your
:24:40. > :24:44.implication, almost your statement, is austerity was the reason for the
:24:45. > :24:49.fire. It may turn out to be true, and plenty of people believe it, but
:24:50. > :24:56.what is your evidence for saying austerity caused this fire? I
:24:57. > :25:01.haven't said that. I said there are number of issues here. Health and
:25:02. > :25:06.safety regulation is one, building regulations are another. The role of
:25:07. > :25:09.government is important in this, how local authorities are able to fund
:25:10. > :25:16.under resourced civil contingencies emergency planning. But your leader
:25:17. > :25:22.said if you cut local authority expenditure, the price is paid
:25:23. > :25:26.somehow. The implication was clear that the cuts lead to the fire and
:25:27. > :25:29.it could be that this was bad regulation, it could be that the
:25:30. > :25:34.regulation was fine but not followed, it could be criminal
:25:35. > :25:40.negligence, it may not turn out to be cuts at all. It could be all of
:25:41. > :25:44.those things and the important thing is we get the inquiry. We have as
:25:45. > :25:51.wide as possible terms of reference for the inquiry, we ensure the
:25:52. > :25:54.residents, victims and local community have a full voice in that
:25:55. > :25:59.inquiry and we make sure the actions which are required both that we
:26:00. > :26:04.already know from previous incidents but also the recommendations that,
:26:05. > :26:10.of this inquiry are acted upon. We cannot ever have situation again
:26:11. > :26:15.where we have recommendations from previous reports that have not been
:26:16. > :26:23.acted on by government or local government. There has been a focus
:26:24. > :26:27.of criticism on Kensington Council but there are many Labour councils
:26:28. > :26:33.with this kind of cladding on the residential tower blocks. Do you now
:26:34. > :26:36.know how many it is? No, but we do know every local authority and
:26:37. > :26:41.housing association in the country are now urgently investigating their
:26:42. > :26:46.own housing stock and we very clearly have to know that. I have
:26:47. > :26:55.got tower blocks in my own constituency that have recently been
:26:56. > :26:58.re-clad and I have contacted my housing providers because I want
:26:59. > :27:04.assurances on behalf of my constituents that they are living in
:27:05. > :27:11.safe housing. We understand me that carried out the work in Grenfell
:27:12. > :27:16.also carried out work in Labour run Camden so it's possible this sort of
:27:17. > :27:24.fire, God help us that it doesn't, it might happen in another borough
:27:25. > :27:28.and in an area where the parties opposed to austerity. Absolutely and
:27:29. > :27:33.we have got to make sure we identify precisely which housing stock does
:27:34. > :27:38.not meet modern requirements, does not meet the safety minimum
:27:39. > :27:43.standards, and that we urgently put that right. We cannot ever have a
:27:44. > :27:48.catastrophe like this again, and I have been in this job as shadow
:27:49. > :27:53.community Secretary for four days now. It pains me to see what has
:27:54. > :27:58.happened in Kensington. This is awful, these are human lives and we
:27:59. > :28:03.have got to start treating people and communities with the respect and
:28:04. > :28:06.with the humanity that they deserve. You were careful at the top to say
:28:07. > :28:14.it's important to be responsible, what do you think the fourth of the
:28:15. > :28:22.call for a day of rage, not by the Labour Party, the day of rage on
:28:23. > :28:29.Wednesday and quote, the Tories have blood on their hands? I don't
:28:30. > :28:32.associate myself with those kind of comments. I think if we are going to
:28:33. > :28:36.do something on Wednesday it is a vigil for those people who have lost
:28:37. > :28:42.their lives because this is a tragedy and we cannot ever have that
:28:43. > :28:46.happen again. The reason I ask is John McDonnell, the Shadow
:28:47. > :28:52.Chancellor, said, and I quote, I don't think this Government is a
:28:53. > :28:57.legitimate government. Do you think it is?
:28:58. > :29:04.In the sense that Theresa May went to the country asking for a bigger
:29:05. > :29:07.Parliamentary majority and a mandate from the people, and she came out on
:29:08. > :29:12.the 8th of June with no Parliamentary majority at all, so it
:29:13. > :29:14.does raise questions about the legitimacy of this Government's
:29:15. > :29:20.ability to put forward a programme that they stood for election on.
:29:21. > :29:25.That is a different point. I asked a simple question: Is this a
:29:26. > :29:29.legitimate Government? Did they win more votes and seats under the rules
:29:30. > :29:37.and therefore is your message to anyone taking to the streets to
:29:38. > :29:41.claim that they are not legitimate? We are a democracy, we have
:29:42. > :29:48.elections, and the Conservatives won 42% of the vote in the election. The
:29:49. > :29:55.Tories lost seats, and the Labour Party gain seats. We are in a
:29:56. > :30:00.Parliamentary democracy and we will hold the Government to account for
:30:01. > :30:08.as long as little as it survives. Why did Mr McDonnell not say what
:30:09. > :30:12.you have said, that you will beat them in the House of Commons? He
:30:13. > :30:16.went on to say, we need as many as 1 million people on the streets of
:30:17. > :30:19.London. He wasn't talking about this fire, to be fair, but about a
:30:20. > :30:22.protest planned for the start of July. He said we need a million
:30:23. > :30:30.people on the streets of London to force the Tories out. Is that
:30:31. > :30:32.democracy? Clearly, peaceful demonstration is part of our
:30:33. > :30:36.democratic rights, and people feel very strongly that this Government
:30:37. > :30:40.has lost a mandate because Theresa May went to the country asking for a
:30:41. > :30:45.bigger majority, and the country said no. They took that majority
:30:46. > :30:51.that she had away from her. I want to make sure we hold this Government
:30:52. > :30:55.to account, and at the earliest opportunity defeat this Government
:30:56. > :31:00.so that we can put into practice our positive agenda for a fairer,
:31:01. > :31:02.better, more recall Britain that works for the many, not the few.
:31:03. > :31:03.Thank you for joining us. Will the Government's Brexit
:31:04. > :31:07.plans have to change following the election
:31:08. > :31:09.after they failed to get the mandate Theresa May demanded,
:31:10. > :31:11.leaving them with no Lots of attention has focused
:31:12. > :31:14.on whether Britain's future does lie That makes it easy for firms
:31:15. > :31:21.to trade within the EU, but prevents Britain
:31:22. > :31:23.striking its own free trade deals Let's have a listen
:31:24. > :31:30.to Labour's Shadow Brexit Secretary, Keir Starmer, and the Chancellor,
:31:31. > :31:33.Philip Hammond, speaking earlier. Well, I think that should
:31:34. > :31:38.be left on the table. So, we could stay
:31:39. > :31:40.inside the customs union? We are leaving the EU,
:31:41. > :31:44.and because we are leaving the EU we will be leaving the single
:31:45. > :31:47.market, and by the way we will be The question is not whether we are
:31:48. > :31:51.leaving the customs union, the question is what we put
:31:52. > :31:53.in its place in order to deliver the objectives
:31:54. > :31:58.the Prime Minister set out. Well, to see what two
:31:59. > :32:01.people from the world of business make of this,
:32:02. > :32:04.I'm joined by the former director general of the CBI and one-time
:32:05. > :32:08.trade minister Digby Jones, and by the fund manager
:32:09. > :32:20.Nicola Horlick. Good morning to you both. Digby,
:32:21. > :32:25.before we get bogged down in what people should or shouldn't do in the
:32:26. > :32:30.Government, from a business perspective, the customs union -
:32:31. > :32:36.what exactly is it can provide does it matter to businesses? -- what
:32:37. > :32:40.exactly is it and why does it matter to businesses? People are saying we
:32:41. > :32:49.need to stay in the single market, but why then they say the other
:32:50. > :32:55.words - Britain's judges don't have control over the law? The customs
:32:56. > :33:00.union is something where you can be within a trading relationship, not
:33:01. > :33:05.as integrated as the single market, but the big problem we will have
:33:06. > :33:13.coming out of the single market is not tariffs, I don't think, because
:33:14. > :33:19.that will hurt Europe, the problem is the bureaucracy, the regulatory
:33:20. > :33:26.burden of getting goods and services across borders. Crudely, businesses
:33:27. > :33:31.are worried about being delayed on the border by paperwork, deliberate
:33:32. > :33:35.paperwork, perhaps, making it harder for our businesses to do business.
:33:36. > :33:45.That is what the issue is. That is the biggest part. The other part is
:33:46. > :33:49.that you get this sense of being in something, so that investors from
:33:50. > :33:53.Japan, America and China who come to Britain for good reasons get the
:33:54. > :33:57.advantage of being within this trading relationship. There are two
:33:58. > :34:01.big downsides to it. One is that you have to pay money for it. It doesn't
:34:02. > :34:08.come free. There is a check to write. And the second one, the big
:34:09. > :34:12.one, in all my years at the CBI and as a Trade Minister, you find that
:34:13. > :34:15.we are well known for trading openly around the world with good-quality
:34:16. > :34:20.traders will stop we don't do the protectionism of America and France,
:34:21. > :34:24.we are actually good at this. This forbid you from going around the
:34:25. > :34:30.world and dealing with Singapore, America or China, or whoever. You
:34:31. > :34:33.have two at brussels do it and you are forbidden from being part of the
:34:34. > :34:37.global economy. I think that will be the big thing that stops things.
:34:38. > :34:42.Thank you for the moment. Nicola, in the end, if you could get the
:34:43. > :34:45.advantages of a border that was simple to do business across,
:34:46. > :34:49.wouldn't it make sense, as Digby Jones says, to get out of the
:34:50. > :34:52.customs union and be able to trade around the world freely, without
:34:53. > :34:58.waiting for Brussels to do some deal that would take many years? The
:34:59. > :35:02.problem is, striking trade deals takes many years, as we've seen.
:35:03. > :35:07.There are many examples likely where the EU has been trying to negotiate
:35:08. > :35:10.something, or the US has, and it takes years and then sometimes
:35:11. > :35:15.stumbles at the last hurdle. The idea that we can suddenly strike our
:35:16. > :35:20.own trade deals is nonsense, in my view. It will take years. We will be
:35:21. > :35:27.cutting off our nose to spite our face if we shun the EU. There are
:35:28. > :35:31.500 million people in the EU, including Britain, so it goes down a
:35:32. > :35:35.bit if we come out. The point is, we can trade freely with that block
:35:36. > :35:40.currently with no constraints. You are cheering on Labour's Kia Starmer
:35:41. > :35:47.when he says, we are getting out of the EU, but we might be able to stay
:35:48. > :35:50.in the customs union? As Digby said, if you stay in the customs union,
:35:51. > :35:55.you cannot do your own trade deals. We heard from the Chancellor this
:35:56. > :35:59.morning that there was a middle position, where we get out of the
:36:00. > :36:01.customs union but over a period of years, to stop businesses having the
:36:02. > :36:07.worry is that you set out, there would be some sort of transition.
:36:08. > :36:13.Are you up for that? What business needs is certainty, boring
:36:14. > :36:16.predictability. And the next couple of years are going to deliver
:36:17. > :36:21.precisely the opposite. Anyone who thinks otherwise is for the birds.
:36:22. > :36:25.If it were set out as a timetable and everyone knew that by this date,
:36:26. > :36:31.this date and this date, things will happen, then I am up for that. We
:36:32. > :36:37.have to make sure that people understand, and this is so
:36:38. > :36:42.important, that the European union is big trading bloc, Nicola is
:36:43. > :36:52.right, but it is only one. This is Asia's century, not America's or
:36:53. > :36:57.Europe's. You have Brussels marching valiantly towards 1970. We need to
:36:58. > :37:01.hit our wagon to the world. A civil servant used a phrase many years ago
:37:02. > :37:07.- we don't want to chain ourselves to a corpse. He said that about
:37:08. > :37:13.Europe. The future is elsewhere, Nicola? The fact is, it is not only
:37:14. > :37:17.a huge area with 500 million people, but it is also very prosperous. You
:37:18. > :37:20.would have to do an awful lot of trade deals across many territories
:37:21. > :37:25.to actually replicate what we currently have, which is free access
:37:26. > :37:30.to a huge trade block with no constraints, and that has been
:37:31. > :37:33.beneficial to our economy. I want to be clear that you didn't want to
:37:34. > :37:37.leave, and you would love to reverse it now if you could, I suspect, but
:37:38. > :37:41.do you think it is possible to get out as the people voted for, but
:37:42. > :37:49.still have the advantages of the customs union? I think that is very.
:37:50. > :37:53.In or out? Yes. If you look at what happened during the election, there
:37:54. > :37:57.has been a huge thing about 80% of people voting for parties that want
:37:58. > :38:01.a Brexit. I don't think that's true. If you look at what happened, a lot
:38:02. > :38:05.of younger people voted who were expected to vote, and they are
:38:06. > :38:11.certainly not in favour of leaving the EU, the single market, the
:38:12. > :38:14.customs union or any of it. Would be, when you describe the advantages
:38:15. > :38:19.of the customs union, many people watching with thing, and therefore
:38:20. > :38:23.the end of your sentence would be, and that is why we should stay in,
:38:24. > :38:28.but you want to come out - why would you take such a risk? I think the
:38:29. > :38:33.negotiations over the next two years should be unique. We are the fifth
:38:34. > :38:38.or sixth biggest economy on earth. We ought to have a quality
:38:39. > :38:42.relationship with Europe for all the reasons that Nicola has said, and
:38:43. > :38:49.she's right, and at the same time reach out to the world. If it is
:38:50. > :38:52.achievable along with Philip Hammond's idea of feathering over
:38:53. > :38:59.the years, it is in Europe's interests. We need humility and less
:39:00. > :39:04.arrogance, but we have got to get there. Briefly, what is the
:39:05. > :39:10.nightmare, the fear, if we are not in the customs union? I believe it
:39:11. > :39:13.will be very detrimental to our economy, and also one thing: The
:39:14. > :39:20.fact of the matter is that Germany is in the EU. Germany does seven
:39:21. > :39:24.times as much trade with China as we do. The idea that the EU stops as
:39:25. > :39:28.trading with other countries is nonsense. A brief last sentence,
:39:29. > :39:35.Digby. The German example is rubbish. They dominate the EU and
:39:36. > :39:44.they use that as a way of enhancing their competitiveness in China. What
:39:45. > :39:48.is true, and you are right, that is coming out of the customs union done
:39:49. > :39:53.badly willed deny us the access we have spoken of, but done well, it
:39:54. > :39:58.will have the best of both worlds. Thank you both very much indeed.
:39:59. > :40:02.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now
:40:03. > :40:12.Coming up here in 20 minutes, The Week Ahead.
:40:13. > :40:15.Hello and welcome to Sunday Politics in Northern Ireland.
:40:16. > :40:18.Arlene Foster confirms the DUP will support the Queen's Speech,
:40:19. > :40:22.marking the beginning of the next parliament at Westminster.
:40:23. > :40:24.But with a two-week deadline for restoring devolution,
:40:25. > :40:28.does Sinn Fein see any chance of Stormont getting
:40:29. > :40:32.That's what I'll be asking Alex Maskey.
:40:33. > :40:34.And with their thoughts throughout, Professor Rick Wilford
:40:35. > :40:44.The DUP leader, Arlene Foster, has said she expects the devolution
:40:45. > :40:47.of corporation tax to be included in the Queen's Speech
:40:48. > :40:52.In an interview with our political editor, Mark Devenport,
:40:53. > :40:54.on Friday in Dublin, Mrs Foster also said she wants
:40:55. > :40:57.a "sensible Brexit" taking account of the special circumstances
:40:58. > :41:12.We believe in Brexit, we believe in leaving the European Union and that
:41:13. > :41:15.is how the nation voted. We also recognise the special history and
:41:16. > :41:17.geography we have on the island of Ireland and we want a sensible
:41:18. > :41:24.Brexit. That's what we were working towards.
:41:25. > :41:28.What are your thoughts about how you can sensibly manage cross-border
:41:29. > :41:33.trade if the UK is outside the customs union, which is your policy?
:41:34. > :41:36.We are engaging with the different ports in Northern Ireland to see
:41:37. > :41:42.what works with them. When I talk about pragmatism that is what I'm
:41:43. > :41:45.talking about. What do they want to see? Universally, the ports have
:41:46. > :41:50.been telling us that one thing that would work as a border around the
:41:51. > :41:57.Irish Sea. That is something that is a redline for us. We want to see a
:41:58. > :41:59.frictionless border between ourselves and the Republic of
:42:00. > :42:03.Ireland and one that works practically but one that recognises
:42:04. > :42:06.the vote took place. Can I talk about your talks with
:42:07. > :42:12.Theresa May, which have dominated the political news? Obviously there
:42:13. > :42:16.was the tragedy and London. Is it safe to say that the DUP will be
:42:17. > :42:19.voting for the Queen's Speech next week?
:42:20. > :42:22.It is right and proper that the Queen's Speech goes ahead. Her
:42:23. > :42:28.Majesty will have a particular view on these issues and it is important
:42:29. > :42:32.that constitutional proprieties are respected but it is right and proper
:42:33. > :42:36.that we respect the Queen's Speech. It is not the be all and end all of
:42:37. > :42:40.negotiations that we have been having with the Conservative Party
:42:41. > :42:44.but I do hope in the national interest that in terms of stability
:42:45. > :42:48.for the UK and indeed for Northern Ireland is that we are able to
:42:49. > :42:50.conclude these talks as quickly as possible.
:42:51. > :42:55.You set out some principles that will appear in the Queen's Speech by
:42:56. > :42:59.saying that you hope for a quick inclusion. Do you expect a full deal
:43:00. > :43:06.to be sorted out by the Queen's Speech?
:43:07. > :43:10.I won't get into deadlines. What Nigel Dodds said is the right way
:43:11. > :43:12.forward. He said that the Queen's Speech was neither here nor there in
:43:13. > :43:16.relation to talks that were engaged on. What we want is to see a
:43:17. > :43:20.sensible way forward for Northern Ireland and to bring stability to
:43:21. > :43:24.the nation, because we are in uncharted territory. We want to see
:43:25. > :43:29.the nation stable and deal with the big challenges of our time, not
:43:30. > :43:32.least leaving the European Union and of course to deal with
:43:33. > :43:35.counterterrorism issues as well which are very important. I know
:43:36. > :43:43.that the dreadful tragedy in London has over shadowed what we have been
:43:44. > :43:47.doing. It has been a wake-up call in relation to the tragedy were that
:43:48. > :43:51.has happened but we have to try and find the deal as quickly as
:43:52. > :43:54.possible. Do you still holds to the view I
:43:55. > :43:58.think you are disposed in the assembly a few months back that as
:43:59. > :44:02.far as corporation tax is concerned Northern Ireland should not take a
:44:03. > :44:06.hit to its block grant because it is coming out the EU and those EU rules
:44:07. > :44:12.should not apply? We are the one party that has stayed
:44:13. > :44:15.firm in relation to this issue. We want to see corporation tax default
:44:16. > :44:22.to the Northern Ireland Assembly so that we can set up the appropriate
:44:23. > :44:26.rate. We believe that in terms of the Azzurri 's ruling, which said we
:44:27. > :44:33.would have to take the block grant for corporation tax, we need to
:44:34. > :44:38.explore if that is still the case. And I use seeking not just economic
:44:39. > :44:43.concessions but also political ones, on parades and the definition of a
:44:44. > :44:48.victim or whatever? What we're doing is in the national
:44:49. > :44:52.interest. We want to talk about matters that are relating to
:44:53. > :44:59.Westminster. We're not going to get into... I know there have been talk
:45:00. > :45:02.about our social issues. Those are matters for the Northern Ireland
:45:03. > :45:06.Assembly so we would be dealing with them at Westminster.
:45:07. > :45:10.There were talks about restoring devolution this week. How do you
:45:11. > :45:17.rate the chances? I think there should be a good
:45:18. > :45:23.chance. We fired a long series of talks directly after the assembly
:45:24. > :45:29.fell and then the assembly elections and then more topics. So I think
:45:30. > :45:33.everybody is aware of the issues at hand and therefore we should get
:45:34. > :45:38.down to it and deal with it as quickly as possible. I did not want
:45:39. > :45:43.the assembly to come down in the first place. There was a plan to
:45:44. > :45:48.deal with the difficulties we were facing but Sinn Fein decided
:45:49. > :45:52.otherwise and pull down the executive for their own political
:45:53. > :46:00.reasons. It is incumbent on then the -- incumbent on them therefore to
:46:01. > :46:04.make this work. There is every reason we should have it back and
:46:05. > :46:07.running. How keen are you to share power with
:46:08. > :46:13.them again after everything in the last few months?
:46:14. > :46:18.I've come through quite a lot in the last few months. We are trying to
:46:19. > :46:22.set up in national government and help in that regard that I'm focused
:46:23. > :46:25.as well on setting up a government in Northern Ireland because I
:46:26. > :46:28.believe it is the best way forward for all of the people in Northern
:46:29. > :46:34.Ireland to have the devolved institutions in place so we can deal
:46:35. > :46:37.with those issues in health and education and budgetary issues. That
:46:38. > :46:41.we can have more and better jobs and go out across the world and tell the
:46:42. > :46:44.people about the wonderful workforce we haven't Northern Ireland. We can
:46:45. > :46:47.only do that if we have stable government in Northern Ireland to
:46:48. > :46:54.devolution and that is what I'm focused on.
:46:55. > :46:58.You expressed annoyance about reporting in England being about DUP
:46:59. > :47:04.social issues. In terms of clarifying that, we know that you're
:47:05. > :47:09.not the only party opposed to the 1967 act on abortion. Are you in a
:47:10. > :47:13.position where you would reform the law? The support of recommending
:47:14. > :47:19.change in terms of physical abnormality cases.
:47:20. > :47:24.There is a broad swathe of consensus here in Northern Ireland. No one
:47:25. > :47:30.wants to see changes to the 1967 act apart from some people in Sinn Fein
:47:31. > :47:35.who would like to see changes. So I don't see things changing in terms
:47:36. > :47:39.of the laws on abortion. We commissioned a report on the
:47:40. > :47:46.dreadful issue of fetal abnormality. There is no actual definition of
:47:47. > :47:56.what fickle fetal abnormality is but we certainly will be looking at the
:47:57. > :48:00.reports -- fetal fetal abnormality. We will do that after devolution
:48:01. > :48:04.comes back. Same-sex marriage. During the weekly
:48:05. > :48:07.Scottish minister says she wrote to him to try and stop Northern Ireland
:48:08. > :48:14.gay couples getting married in Scotland. Was that the case?
:48:15. > :48:19.That was not the case. I don't know what he was referring to but it was
:48:20. > :48:32.not a letter from me. I had no recollection of that. Whether it is
:48:33. > :48:36.about financial recognition laws... There has also been talk about your
:48:37. > :48:42.relationship and loyalist paramilitary organisations.
:48:43. > :48:45.I hope it wasn't about my relationship. I have no relationship
:48:46. > :48:51.with paramilitary organisations, that is very clear.
:48:52. > :48:56.Did the DUP at any point seek to get the support of groups like the UDA
:48:57. > :49:00.or work with them? We never sought any endorsement from
:49:01. > :49:05.anyone. There has been a lot of talk about the loyalist community and
:49:06. > :49:10.paramilitaries. The two are not the same. There is a loyalist working
:49:11. > :49:14.class community that we want to work with across Northern Ireland and
:49:15. > :49:17.enable them to move forward and I think that is absolutely the right
:49:18. > :49:18.thing to do. Arlene Foster speaking
:49:19. > :49:20.to Mark Devenport in Dublin and with me now is the Sinn Fein MLA
:49:21. > :49:23.Alex Maskey. Your party President, Gerry Adams,
:49:24. > :49:25.told me on Thursday night that a Stormont deal could be done
:49:26. > :49:27.in a day. The DUP is making positive noises
:49:28. > :49:39.too about what is achievable. I think it is and we believe it is
:49:40. > :49:43.as a party. When you look at all of the issues that are outstanding, it
:49:44. > :49:47.really is about those agreements that have been reached over the last
:49:48. > :49:54.number of years. But they -- those narratives are
:49:55. > :50:04.disputed. Some of them are on disputable. --
:50:05. > :50:09.indisputable. We have a political impasse.
:50:10. > :50:15.The sticking point is that it is not of others see it.
:50:16. > :50:20.Look at the agreement. People either stand by the agreement or not. What
:50:21. > :50:27.we face now is that people refuse to stand by those agreements. That is
:50:28. > :50:30.dishonourable. It means that people cannot have confidence in the
:50:31. > :50:36.parties working together. My point is that it isn't that
:50:37. > :50:40.straightforward. You're entitled to that narrative but all of the other
:50:41. > :50:44.parties don't necessarily share your interpretation and that is why there
:50:45. > :50:49.is a sticking point. If it was as simple as you said there would be
:50:50. > :50:51.agreement. We'd been at this for months.
:50:52. > :50:57.It is as simple as that, with all due respect. We know what the issues
:50:58. > :51:05.are and we have talked about them end of the -- endlessly. We agreed
:51:06. > :51:09.recently that we would not go down to an earlier agreement and that is
:51:10. > :51:14.still doable. It is about implementing existing
:51:15. > :51:20.agreements? Yes.
:51:21. > :51:26.But seeing that Arlene Foster cannot be first Minster is not an
:51:27. > :51:37.implementing an existing agreement. On the doorsteps, we were fighting
:51:38. > :51:40.to elections at the same time. The big issue was reinstating the
:51:41. > :51:46.institutions but on the basis that you have confidence that there would
:51:47. > :51:48.be no financial corruption or fiasco.
:51:49. > :51:54.There is no evidence of financial corruption.
:51:55. > :51:59.I didn't say there was. There is no and inquiry and that
:52:00. > :52:04.will decide what happened. The terms of the inquiry work
:52:05. > :52:12.endorsed by every member of the assembly on the basis that there
:52:13. > :52:18.would be a judge led inquiry. And Arlene Foster has to sit on the
:52:19. > :52:23.sidelines and watch a play out? She has a huge mandate and is entitled
:52:24. > :52:27.to be First Minister. We respect her mandate and the
:52:28. > :52:31.party's mandate but we also have many ports and we will stand by them
:52:32. > :52:40.firmly. How does standing by Arlene Foster's
:52:41. > :52:46.mandate square with saying that she cannot be First Minister?
:52:47. > :52:50.She was the chief architect of the RHI scheme and that ended up in the
:52:51. > :52:53.back that had her senior party colleagues fighting with each other
:52:54. > :53:02.on a television programme which you are well aware of. That produced a
:53:03. > :53:04.scandal of mammoth proportions which meant there were no confidence in
:53:05. > :53:11.public institutions. That is your interpretation of
:53:12. > :53:15.Arlene Foster's involvement in RHI. That will be sorted out by an
:53:16. > :53:18.inquiry. She was chief architect of the
:53:19. > :53:24.scheme. She is also the leader of the DUP.
:53:25. > :53:29.Let me address both dishes. She is of course leader of the DUP and we
:53:30. > :53:33.respect that. We met her in the last week and we continue to do that.
:53:34. > :53:38.But your position on her taking up the role hasn't changed?
:53:39. > :53:44.The public of no confidence in the public institutions given the
:53:45. > :53:49.fiasco. You cannot see the public had no
:53:50. > :53:53.confidence, you don't know that. I think the lack of public
:53:54. > :53:59.confidence went well beyond the Sinn Fein electorate.
:54:00. > :54:01.Arlene Foster says the devolution of corporation tax will be on the
:54:02. > :54:05.Queen's Speech. She is talked about other issues that will bring benefit
:54:06. > :54:10.to Northern Ireland of the DUP is involved in supporting Theresa May
:54:11. > :54:13.in number ten. Wouldn't that be good if everyone in Northern Ireland --
:54:14. > :54:19.for everyone in Northern Ireland at the DUP supported the government in
:54:20. > :54:22.terms of things that would happen here?
:54:23. > :54:26.They will prop up a Theresa May government no matter what because
:54:27. > :54:30.they have been supporting the Tories for many years. There is nothing
:54:31. > :54:36.magical that they will support a Tory government. That is a matter
:54:37. > :54:41.for them to do. It is for them to succeed in getting things for the
:54:42. > :54:46.North. I wish her luck. Because the DUP could hold the key
:54:47. > :54:52.to ending story too. That would be embarrassing for Sinn Fein, wouldn't
:54:53. > :54:56.it? They are a fractured party
:54:57. > :55:01.internally. Who knows how long that might last. Off we have an end to
:55:02. > :55:05.austerity it is because people, unfortunately and tragically with
:55:06. > :55:09.what we've seen in the last number of days in London, the policy of
:55:10. > :55:15.austerity is bad for people. People are waking up to the reality that
:55:16. > :55:19.austerity is bad. If the Tories wake up to that it will be because of
:55:20. > :55:23.their internal dynamics. Arlene Foster is looking for a
:55:24. > :55:29.sensible Brexit. Presumably Sinn Fein once that as well.
:55:30. > :55:34.We want to vote for remain. The majority of people in the North
:55:35. > :55:38.voted for remain. What we are asking for is a special designated staters
:55:39. > :55:42.for people of the North within the EU. That is a sensible Brexit. The
:55:43. > :55:46.people of Britain want to leave the EU that is entirely a matter for
:55:47. > :55:56.them. They cannot and should not be able to bring people like myself and
:55:57. > :55:58.hundreds of thousands of people here who voted to remain against our
:55:59. > :56:02.wishes. I'm looking forward to working with
:56:03. > :56:07.the new administration in the Republic of Ireland? They think they
:56:08. > :56:11.will do a good job in terms of Northern Ireland politics?
:56:12. > :56:18.Our leaders have already met them and we continue to do that. Whether
:56:19. > :56:23.we have faith and letting them deliver, let's park judgment.
:56:24. > :56:29.Soon prepared to say you have faith in them the moment?
:56:30. > :56:34.I don't have faith from what I have seen in the past in Fine Gael
:56:35. > :56:38.governments. They don't have an empathy for the North and don't act
:56:39. > :56:40.on the national interest. We have to work with them and make sure that he
:56:41. > :56:44.works in the national interest. With me now are Professor Rick
:56:45. > :56:47.Wilford from Queen's University and journalist
:56:48. > :57:00.Amanda Ferguson. Interesting to hear that less than
:57:01. > :57:12.enthusiastic endorsement for Fine Gael.
:57:13. > :57:16.There is pragmatism currently. Wait and see is a fair enough stance.
:57:17. > :57:21.They are only in their jobs for a few days. One of the things that
:57:22. > :57:30.will potentially help is the fact that Arlene Foster have been tourism
:57:31. > :57:39.ministers in the past and make the chemistry that helps the process.
:57:40. > :57:40.We've heard from Arlene Foster and Alex Massie.
:57:41. > :57:42.Does what we've heard make an agreement by 29th June
:57:43. > :57:58.I'm not sure the deal will be done by then Barts and the major music
:57:59. > :58:10.has changed -- but the mood music has changed. There is an
:58:11. > :58:14.opportunity. Sinn Fein were ahead coming out of the assembly elections
:58:15. > :58:23.and the DUP are ahead coming out of the Westminster elections so there
:58:24. > :58:27.are opportunities for magnanimity and...
:58:28. > :58:36.Can you smell a fudge cooking? I agree that it is a bit more upbeat
:58:37. > :58:40.than it has been. It would be ridiculous situation of all the
:58:41. > :58:45.outstanding issues were resolved and the only issue left standing was
:58:46. > :58:51.Arlene Foster's role in the executive. It would be ludicrous
:58:52. > :58:56.that the deal would be frustrated on that particular point. If Sinn Fein
:58:57. > :59:01.get what they want out of the talks, including the language act, then
:59:02. > :59:06.objecting to Arlene Foster coming back as First Minister...
:59:07. > :59:10.So it's a bargaining chip? I would hope so because it seems an
:59:11. > :59:16.idle position to adopt and a negative position. If the only
:59:17. > :59:22.Domino left to be toppled where that, that would be ridiculous.
:59:23. > :59:27.To be fair to Alex, he was clear about that. As far as he was
:59:28. > :59:33.concerned, that was the position throughout.
:59:34. > :59:39.We will have to see what comes out of the Westminster negotiations. I
:59:40. > :59:45.don't think our deal will be signed off until the Westminster deal comes
:59:46. > :59:49.to fruition. The DUP are entitled to have these negotiations with the
:59:50. > :59:54.Tories but nationalists are entitled to be a little concerned about it
:59:55. > :00:03.and SDLP politicians and Sinn Fein politicians have raised the concerns
:00:04. > :00:08.over side deals. They don't want to be in a position,
:00:09. > :00:15.Sinn Fein, were they see no deal was better than a good deal. It would be
:00:16. > :00:21.remiss of them and not to support a deal.
:00:22. > :00:25.Let's take a look back at the week in politics.
:00:26. > :00:28.As the clock ticked on the formation of a UK Government, the DUP
:00:29. > :00:40.Bring stability to the UK Government in and around issues like Brexit,
:00:41. > :00:41.counterterrorism and doing what's right financially for Northern
:00:42. > :00:42.Ireland. Sinn Fein were also
:00:43. > :00:44.at Westminister making By the way, when there is an act,
:00:45. > :00:57.life will go on. In Dublin the new
:00:58. > :01:04.Taoiseach was unveiled. We seek to build a republic of
:01:05. > :01:10.opportunity and that is a republic in which every citizen gets a fair
:01:11. > :01:11.go. And he confirmed Simon Coveney
:01:12. > :01:13.as his new Foreign Minister. Back at Westminister,
:01:14. > :01:25.Jeremy Corbyn has his own views We all look forward to welcoming the
:01:26. > :01:26.Queen's Speech just as soon as the coalition of chaos has been
:01:27. > :01:35.negotiated. It's pretty obvious that the DUP is
:01:36. > :01:41.enjoying its moment in the sun. It certainly is. They ran into a bit
:01:42. > :01:46.of a stumbling block with the Treasury over some of the financial
:01:47. > :01:53.matters. I don't think anything else is holding this up. I was struck by
:01:54. > :01:58.John Major's intervention during the week where he said they don't need a
:01:59. > :02:04.supply and confidence relationship because they know the DUP will vote
:02:05. > :02:08.with the government anyway. But they will extract at the Cannes out of
:02:09. > :02:13.the relationship. One of the great imponderables is will they be
:02:14. > :02:15.dealing with Theresa May in the near future because her position looks
:02:16. > :02:21.very shaky. Doesn't let you like it risky
:02:22. > :02:23.strategy as far as the DUP is concerned?
:02:24. > :02:28.Arlene Foster has to be careful not to overplay her hand. She said she
:02:29. > :02:32.won't get into bed with Jeremy Corbyn and the Tories know that.
:02:33. > :02:42.Many of the things happening in the last couple of weeks have changed
:02:43. > :02:46.the dynamic. There is such a toxic atmosphere around the Tories at the
:02:47. > :02:54.moment. Owen Smith is the new Shadow
:02:55. > :02:58.Northern Ireland Secretary. He is from the constituency just
:02:59. > :03:07.over the hill from where I am. He is a steady and safe pair of hands and
:03:08. > :03:08.will prove to be capable and better than the previous incumbent.
:03:09. > :03:08.will prove to be capable and better -- for the victims' family so that
:03:09. > :03:10.they can Now back to Nick in London.
:03:11. > :03:19.they can have their say. Thanks to all of you.
:03:20. > :03:22.Even if the inferno in London had never happened, this would have been
:03:23. > :03:26.The Brexit negotiations finally begin in Brussels tomorrow -
:03:27. > :03:31.will ministers change their position?
:03:32. > :03:33.The Queen's Speech, which had to be delayed,
:03:34. > :03:36.but can the Government get its legislative agenda
:03:37. > :03:57.Still with me, Steve, Julia and Tom. Steve, Brexit, as if it is just a
:03:58. > :04:02.small thing this week. We have heard from the Chancellor this morning and
:04:03. > :04:07.from Andrea Leadsom - do you detect a shift in Government debate or
:04:08. > :04:11.still alive -- in Government approach or still a lively debate?
:04:12. > :04:16.Philip Hammond now is in a stronger position than he could ever have
:04:17. > :04:21.dreams who would be in -- he would be an before the election result, so
:04:22. > :04:26.tonally, we have him now confidently saying that the focus must be on the
:04:27. > :04:31.economy, on having some kind of deal whereby there are not bureaucrats
:04:32. > :04:38.blocking the movement of goods and so on, but beyond that, it's not
:04:39. > :04:42.entirely clear how he plans to use this new political muscularity. I
:04:43. > :04:47.think that will become clearer as the talks begin, but at this point,
:04:48. > :04:51.it all still seems fairly vague. Labour's position and the
:04:52. > :05:01.Government's as these talks begin tomorrow. Don't you smell a rat? Do
:05:02. > :05:05.you think, I know what they are rock to, they wanted ter at the
:05:06. > :05:08.referendum? It is almost irrelevant what the Government says and what
:05:09. > :05:13.they are thinking of doing. What matters is what is on the table,
:05:14. > :05:17.hence the nonsense about soft Brexit and hard Brexit. Soc Brexit is not
:05:18. > :05:24.Brexit and hard Brexit is not an option. Guy the Hofstadter did the
:05:25. > :05:31.work of Nigel Farage last week when he said that we could remain but
:05:32. > :05:37.lose the rebate. Even a slow Brexit... No, no, at the end of
:05:38. > :05:43.March in 2019 we will be out of the EU. That is what happens. There is a
:05:44. > :05:50.question of transition deals, which is fine. But we do not know which
:05:51. > :05:53.Government will be in power at the time, but will they obey the will of
:05:54. > :05:59.the people as expressed in the EU referendum, which is out of the free
:06:00. > :06:06.market, no free movement? This argument is irrelevant, I think.
:06:07. > :06:10.Tom, has a lot changed? Remit yes. The first compromise the Government
:06:11. > :06:13.made on Friday, which was almost unreported on Friday because we had
:06:14. > :06:17.so much more to talk about, Grenfell Tower being the major one, but the
:06:18. > :06:21.Government agreed to go by the EU timetable, which is to sort out the
:06:22. > :06:31.divorce and then move the trade deal. The other thing that changed
:06:32. > :06:38.is the composition of the House of Commons. There is no majority for
:06:39. > :06:42.Theresa May's version of Brexit. I think the area where there will be
:06:43. > :06:46.room for manoeuvre is immigration. It won't be the customs union. There
:06:47. > :06:52.will be an argument about the relationship, but it will be to
:06:53. > :07:00.soften up this call from Theresa May for immigration controls. Jobs first
:07:01. > :07:06.is a change in the Government position, isn't it? Tom is right
:07:07. > :07:10.about immigration. I was told that the decision to include student
:07:11. > :07:14.numbers in the immigration total was her view and hers alone. I think
:07:15. > :07:22.that will be dropped now, because the Cabinet feels strong enough to
:07:23. > :07:25.assert their different view. Every single member of that cabinet I am
:07:26. > :07:30.told apart from her did not want that. There is an example of
:07:31. > :07:35.refocusing. At the moment, it is not clear where that will lead. The
:07:36. > :07:43.talks will begin, I think, in an messy way. -- in a messy way. I have
:07:44. > :07:52.spoken to Tory MPs on the Remain site who wonder if we won't still be
:07:53. > :07:58.in in 2019. It is not possible. The legal process has begun. We are out
:07:59. > :08:02.of the EU at the end of that period. Transition could mean it feels very
:08:03. > :08:09.like we are still in. All this talk about compromise and so on, it is
:08:10. > :08:14.between members of the Cabinet and UK political parties. What matters
:08:15. > :08:20.is what is on the table and how the British people react. During these
:08:21. > :08:29.talks, the Government will have to compromise if they don't get to have
:08:30. > :08:34.their cake and eat it. Brexit will be soft. Do you think there is
:08:35. > :08:39.arithmetic that will bring a dramatic change? Bhui report this as
:08:40. > :08:47.internal machinations in the Tory Party in the Cabinet. It is what you
:08:48. > :08:57.can get through. We report this. She framed this election as a mandate
:08:58. > :09:07.for her version of Brexit. When she didn't get that mandate, I know it
:09:08. > :09:11.has become a cliche could, -- it has become a cliche, but she did not get
:09:12. > :09:14.the mandate cheese. Let's move on to the Queen's speech. That would be a
:09:15. > :09:19.huge story if it were not for fire and Brexit. This is a Government
:09:20. > :09:29.without a majority vote of Andrea Leadsom said, we are just elating
:09:30. > :09:34.next year's Queen's speech. Do you buy that? There will not be won
:09:35. > :09:44.because they do not know whether they will have the numbers to
:09:45. > :09:48.support it. Also, one Queen's speech and the Parliament business will be
:09:49. > :09:53.taken up by the Great Repeal Bill. There will be no legislative time
:09:54. > :10:04.left for the remnants left Theresa May's manifesto. She feels this
:10:05. > :10:10.desperate need to try. There will be a housing will, no doubt and one or
:10:11. > :10:13.two other things. Other things are dead in the water, grammar schools,
:10:14. > :10:21.for example. Some of the more interventionist policies are forever
:10:22. > :10:24.gone. Some people might well come an end to the ongoing new legislation
:10:25. > :10:28.about every topic which does not make anyone's life better. We don't
:10:29. > :10:31.know the details of the deal with the DUP, but we know it will be
:10:32. > :10:35.focused some of it on Northern Ireland itself. There is a chance
:10:36. > :10:44.that they see themselves as fighting austerity in the UK. You can't just
:10:45. > :10:48.have a set of policies for Northern Ireland to keep the DUP on board
:10:49. > :10:58.which will not apply if they seem rather rosy and benevolent to the
:10:59. > :11:03.rest of the UK. The Barnett Formula requires more spending in Wales and
:11:04. > :11:06.Scotland if you increase it for Northern Ireland. It is that
:11:07. > :11:16.whatever is spent in England, there are ramifications for the other
:11:17. > :11:19.nations of the UK. They are close to impotence, and the only question
:11:20. > :11:23.that will be asked is, can we get this through? Therefore, they will
:11:24. > :11:26.get it through because they won't put anything in that could be
:11:27. > :11:33.defeated. A last thought about the fire, then. However much we say
:11:34. > :11:39.these events are bigger, I have a feeling that the fire will dominate
:11:40. > :11:44.when MPs gather. Have ministers done enough, and have Labour done enough
:11:45. > :11:47.to do themselves from some of the protests, to avoid some of the
:11:48. > :11:54.political risks involved? In the short term, Downing Street is
:11:55. > :11:57.beginning to do enough. The Prime Minister is meeting relatives every
:11:58. > :12:00.day now, which is beginning to abate the political crisis. The great mess
:12:01. > :12:08.that will continue is that Labour have managed to turn this into an
:12:09. > :12:12.anti-austerity issue, and that will live on. The organisation has been
:12:13. > :12:16.appalling. This is about poor people's lives, at the end of the
:12:17. > :12:21.day. The way it has been politicised they think is completely wrong. It
:12:22. > :12:27.also raises questions about who is responsible for what. The instinct
:12:28. > :12:31.is to blame Theresa May for the whole lot, something that wouldn't
:12:32. > :12:35.have happened two months ago. What about the role of the local
:12:36. > :12:41.authority? What about the invisibility of the local authority
:12:42. > :12:45.afterwards? Which bit of our Government is responsible for what
:12:46. > :12:50.is? That is the cause of many crises in this country. It is ruled by
:12:51. > :12:59.committee and the bug doesn't stop with anyone. I thought, in many
:13:00. > :13:01.ways, for those of us in our line of work, as it were, the most painful
:13:02. > :13:03.question beyond the work, as it were, the most painful
:13:04. > :13:09.question beyond the horrible human tragedy was to hear people say, we
:13:10. > :13:17.don't know who to ask. That was a failure by the local council. And
:13:18. > :13:21.you put it to Andrea Leadsom. I don't think making it the Prime
:13:22. > :13:23.Minister will reassure people. Thank you all very much indeed.
:13:24. > :13:27.The Daily Politics will be back on BBC Two at noon tomorrow,
:13:28. > :13:30.and Andrew will be back here at the same time next week.
:13:31. > :14:03.Remember - if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.
:14:04. > :14:07.MUSIC: Power by Kanye West