20/01/2013

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:39:52. > :39:55.Hello and welcome to the Sunday Politics. The first major event of

:39:55. > :39:58.the Derry - Londonderry UK City of Culture gets under way this evening

:39:58. > :40:01.with the Sons and Daughters concert. With the Executive promising

:40:01. > :40:07.investment of �30 million, will the year deliver on the economic and

:40:07. > :40:11.cultural legacy promised? The Culture Minister Caral Ni Chuilin

:40:11. > :40:13.is with me. And presidents and Prime Ministers praise his

:40:13. > :40:22.leadership, but back home there are fewer plaudits as political

:40:22. > :40:26.opponents put pressure on the Taoiseach. It did make reckless

:40:26. > :40:31.promises in advance of the election and they have broken almost every

:40:31. > :40:34.promise at this stage. People feel somewhat betrayed. And to discuss

:40:34. > :40:43.this and much more, journalist and commentator Susan McKay and

:40:43. > :40:46.Economist Neil Gibson. Liverpool's year as European

:40:46. > :40:50.Capital of Culture earned the city around �800 million in extra income,

:40:50. > :40:53.half of which came directly from tourism. It's been estimated that

:40:53. > :40:57.up to one million visitors could visit the north west this City of

:40:57. > :41:01.Culture year. As the first major concert kicks off this evening,

:41:01. > :41:08.what can the city expect? And can it deliver? With me is the Culture

:41:08. > :41:13.Minister Caral Ni Chuilin. Obviously it is a big night tonight

:41:13. > :41:18.and in some ways the proper launch of this year. Sons and Daughters,

:41:18. > :41:27.no better way to launch the programme than this evening, and we

:41:27. > :41:31.hope they can get to Derry with the weather. Now it has started, and

:41:31. > :41:35.with all the expectation and build up, tonight a lot of people will be

:41:35. > :41:39.biting their nails but I think it will be great. I think there will

:41:39. > :41:46.be some negativity along with the excitement and celebration of the

:41:46. > :41:52.year. When it comes to the marketing, there seemed to have

:41:52. > :41:58.been a few issues - what role has your department taken? We meet

:41:58. > :42:04.directly with Derry City Council and the issues have been sorted out.

:42:04. > :42:08.They have a licence for the city of Culture, taking the operational

:42:09. > :42:13.day-to-day responsibility including marketing, but negativity, I had

:42:13. > :42:19.this with the Olympics and the Paralympics last year and look how

:42:19. > :42:25.that turned out. �30 million from the Executive, about 12 million

:42:25. > :42:28.from your department, what will we get back? For the north-west has

:42:28. > :42:34.not received the Investment it should have over the last decade

:42:34. > :42:41.and we will get investment back. It will increase tourism and leave a

:42:41. > :42:47.legacy that was not there before. In what way? Will it be jobs? We

:42:47. > :42:52.didn't get the hotels we expected to be built. There will be jobs,

:42:52. > :42:57.retail, tourism, arts and crafts and music that were not there

:42:57. > :43:02.before and that in itself will help people with talent who were not

:43:02. > :43:05.recognised through the economy. There has been some criticism of

:43:05. > :43:10.the musical instruments forever child and there needs to be more

:43:10. > :43:15.than that. What can you offer people as reassurance what they

:43:15. > :43:20.get? When you look at the figures for Liverpool, �800 million, an

:43:20. > :43:27.enormous amount of money and visitors say that you still get the

:43:27. > :43:34.vibe. And you will get that in Derry. It is about introducing

:43:34. > :43:38.music, arts and culture, and if people have a career in that that

:43:39. > :43:46.is well and good. I think supporting local artists were there

:43:46. > :43:49.was not employment before, this is what Derry has to offer. When it

:43:49. > :43:53.comes to Infrastructure, you said yourself you can't control the

:43:53. > :43:58.weather obviously, but we didn't get the flights we thought a few

:43:58. > :44:03.years ago that might be introduced to get people to Derry. If they

:44:03. > :44:09.come to Belfast up the road, we have discussed the difficulties are

:44:10. > :44:14.with certain areas and the weather, did the recession scupper things?

:44:14. > :44:21.No, we are not finished yet. The people of the North are very hardy,

:44:21. > :44:25.they will get to Derry. We have also root on the hour, every half-

:44:25. > :44:30.hour, and people will get to Derry not just for this evening but for

:44:30. > :44:35.the rest of the year. Is it too late to be tweaking some of those

:44:35. > :44:41.issues on the year it is happening? I'm not aware of any tweaking that

:44:41. > :44:46.needs to happen. We need to look at the flexibility and make sure the

:44:46. > :44:51.success of Derry is felt across the north-west. When it comes to some

:44:51. > :45:00.of the funding, the report after Christmas that the �6.5 million,

:45:00. > :45:08.some of that will be handed back. That is not a good sign, is it?

:45:08. > :45:14.It's not, but over �600 million will be spent so it is on target.

:45:14. > :45:17.When it comes to the concert, it is a big event. I have seen some of

:45:17. > :45:22.the pictures, it looks very impressive but it is only temporary.

:45:22. > :45:29.There will be no legacy from the venue. But the venue can be used

:45:29. > :45:35.elsewhere. That is an important thing. Every space has been opened

:45:35. > :45:40.up, it has brightened up the city, opened up the city. It is good news.

:45:40. > :45:44.Let's hear now what our Guests of the Day think. Neil Gibson, you

:45:44. > :45:49.carried out this report in 2010, half a million extra visitor

:45:49. > :45:57.nights', for �2 million additional visitor spending, and it is

:45:57. > :46:02.difficult because we are not at the end of the year yet but how much of

:46:02. > :46:06.that has come to fruition? It is difficult to say but we are already

:46:06. > :46:16.seeing significant event planning going ahead. None of the

:46:16. > :46:16.

:46:17. > :46:20.significant events have not materialised. This is a difficult

:46:20. > :46:25.time to gather international money, but I am encouraged that the

:46:25. > :46:28.signature events we were hoping for are still scheduled so we should

:46:28. > :46:34.still get significant tourist impact and most crucially bring

:46:34. > :46:38.some people to the City who have never been before. They may be

:46:38. > :46:43.future residents, future investors, and that is the real potential for

:46:43. > :46:48.the legacy. That, and bringing people into their own city for the

:46:48. > :46:53.first time to get involved. The legacy will be the responsibility

:46:53. > :47:01.not just of experts and politicians, but also the responsibility of the

:47:01. > :47:07.people of the city. Susan McKay, is it on the radar in Dublin? I think

:47:07. > :47:12.maybe it has fallen down a little bit on that marketing outside Derry.

:47:12. > :47:16.I didn't see it listed in a lot of the big UK destination events over

:47:16. > :47:23.Christmas but it will be an overwhelmingly positive thing for

:47:23. > :47:26.Derry. I am from Derry, I have a great loyalty to it, and I think

:47:26. > :47:32.the City is a great venue for international events. People are

:47:32. > :47:36.always surprised how lovely it is, the Donegal mountains, but one of

:47:36. > :47:40.the best things about the city of Culture is that it is not just the

:47:40. > :47:44.big set-piece events which are only going to appeal to a minority of

:47:44. > :47:49.the population, it is the fact that culture company has gone to great

:47:49. > :47:54.lengths to make sure kids in disadvantaged areas will get some

:47:54. > :47:58.benefit. They have got the music, staying, but when they have world-

:47:58. > :48:05.class performers coming over they are making sure they do some work

:48:05. > :48:10.with children in primary schools. They are involving talented young

:48:10. > :48:14.people in Derry with world class people they would not normally be

:48:14. > :48:20.exposed to. They are making it work for the whole city, not just a

:48:20. > :48:27.cultural elite. Interesting about the marketing - is it on the radar

:48:27. > :48:35.in London? In Dublin? It doesn't seem that it is. I think it will be.

:48:35. > :48:41.There have been challengers for example I spoke to people in Dublin

:48:41. > :48:44.talking about the flag coming, but not talking about anything else.

:48:44. > :48:50.People will pick certain things out but we need to know what the

:48:50. > :48:54.overall package is. Susan has raised this, the people in Derry

:48:54. > :49:01.know what is coming and they should be involved in the planning, the

:49:01. > :49:09.benefit. We need to get people from Dublin and London and Belfast.

:49:09. > :49:17.Belfast people will not travel to Derry and invest.

:49:17. > :49:25.It is interesting - it is a lot of money to go to one project. But why

:49:25. > :49:31.not? Why not more than that? It is the whole balance in the economy.

:49:31. > :49:37.Disadvantaged areas are like people waiting on a bus. In deprived areas,

:49:37. > :49:47.the bosses don't past at all. Derry is an area where the boss has not

:49:47. > :49:49.

:49:49. > :49:54.passed at all. With your economist hat on, well people in other areas

:49:54. > :49:59.look at this and think that is money well spent and miss out on

:49:59. > :50:04.events in my area this year? what hope they will. What happens

:50:04. > :50:12.often here is that people disagree about where money... And nothing

:50:12. > :50:19.occurs. That is one of our major urban centres and people will be

:50:19. > :50:25.curious to see it. What I have to think is, if I was in the manner,

:50:25. > :50:28.how might I get visitors to come and see me as well? Let's get

:50:28. > :50:32.people to come down because most importantly we need new people

:50:32. > :50:38.coming into the island who might potentially have money in the

:50:38. > :50:42.future, or may be want to bring their family to. It is always a

:50:42. > :50:47.game in which some will get, some will not. There will be future

:50:47. > :50:52.investments that might have a different pattern, but there can't

:50:52. > :50:57.think why did I not get. Let's celebrate and look for other

:50:57. > :51:05.opportunities. Susan, the message was that we need to be proactive.

:51:05. > :51:09.You were in Derry on Friday, did you feel the vibe in the City?

:51:09. > :51:12.was extremely cold, and as it happens I was talking to young

:51:12. > :51:17.people in one of the most disadvantaged parts of Derry and

:51:17. > :51:23.they felt there was nothing in it for them. There is a serious issue

:51:23. > :51:27.of poverty in Derry, but at least the minister is correct that making

:51:28. > :51:33.an investment of the kind the end to kitted is making, it is correct

:51:33. > :51:39.in historic legacy of neglect and that is important. Thank you for

:51:39. > :51:41.In the Republic, the Taoiseach Enda Kenny has been praised abroad as a

:51:41. > :51:44.heavyweight for putting the Republic's bailed-out economy back

:51:44. > :51:50.on track, but criticised at home as the Taoiseach whose government is

:51:50. > :51:52.introducing measures that hit the poor and vulnerable. And now the

:51:52. > :52:02.abortion debate has returned. Here's our Dublin correspondent

:52:02. > :52:05.

:52:05. > :52:15.Shane Harrison. Kenny house until relatively recently, a relatively

:52:15. > :52:17.

:52:17. > :52:21.unremarkable political career, been blessed with good fortune. That

:52:21. > :52:29.continued good luck marked his first year in office, according to

:52:29. > :52:33.John Downing, a political columnist. The previous government were so

:52:33. > :52:37.wildly unpopular he had to be popular. He was very lucky in the

:52:37. > :52:43.timing of his criticism of the Church. The public had just had

:52:43. > :52:48.enough. For rape and the torture of children were downplayed or managed

:52:48. > :52:53.to walk hold instead the primacy of the institution, its power, its

:52:53. > :53:01.standing and its reputation. He was very lucky in the arrival of Queen

:53:01. > :53:08.Elizabeth II and that whole visit also of Obama. We have the republic

:53:08. > :53:11.meeting its targets, there has been praised from abroad. By one to

:53:11. > :53:16.applaud the Irish government under your leadership for making some

:53:16. > :53:22.very tough decisions to shore up the Irish economy. The Taoiseach

:53:22. > :53:25.has got the time magazine front cover treatment, and was recently

:53:25. > :53:32.given a special award for putting the country back on the path to

:53:32. > :53:38.recovery. But the Dublin correspondent of the newspaper here

:53:38. > :53:45.is a sceptic. The journalists think Kenny is doing a good job because

:53:45. > :53:50.the success story has come out of Ireland, and they compare it with

:53:50. > :53:53.Greece where nothing seems to work. I don't think there austerity

:53:53. > :54:02.programme is going to work because it hits the poorest people the

:54:02. > :54:07.hardest. It is true there was little Christmas could chip in the

:54:07. > :54:10.Budget last month, but the Labour coalition would argue that during

:54:10. > :54:16.this recession by and large it is those who can afford it who have

:54:16. > :54:23.taken the biggest hit. How much more can people take in the form of

:54:23. > :54:29.tax rises and spending cuts? Especially as the seismic game

:54:29. > :54:34.changer under the banking debt has yet to materialise. The Fina for

:54:34. > :54:41.leader says it is a different story at home although he has been lauded

:54:41. > :54:45.abroad. Principally I think the promises have been broken. They did

:54:45. > :54:49.make reckless promises in advance of the election and have broken

:54:49. > :54:54.almost every promise at the stage and people feel somewhat betrayed.

:54:54. > :54:59.They thought it was going to be the dawn of the new year, wonderful

:54:59. > :55:08.change, none of that has happened. What has happened is the return of

:55:08. > :55:14.abortion as a political issue. The coalition seemed set on introducing

:55:14. > :55:22.legislation. The credible threat of suicide seems set to be included as

:55:22. > :55:29.a grounds for termination. Unlike the Labour Party, many here believe

:55:29. > :55:33.that could lead to abortion on demand. The party's Meyer

:55:33. > :55:38.constituency colleague of the Taoiseach opposes a liberal

:55:38. > :55:42.abortion law. The have to sit down and tease this through and that is

:55:43. > :55:46.a challenge to us to show leadership in the years of the

:55:46. > :55:54.economy when we have to make tough decisions, and in relation to this

:55:54. > :55:59.particular issue that we have to make a tough decision on. How he

:55:59. > :56:07.deals with both abortion and the economy will determined Kenny's

:56:07. > :56:12.future. To date, as Taoiseach fate has been fortunate and he will hope

:56:12. > :56:16.he can remain a looking leader. Obviously the tricky abortion

:56:16. > :56:21.debate will be difficult given the promise before the election. It was

:56:21. > :56:26.very foolish and wrong of the Taoiseach to make that promise

:56:26. > :56:29.before he was elected because we have known for a long time that

:56:29. > :56:37.successful governments have avoided legislating for abortion when they

:56:37. > :56:42.were clearly required to do so 20 years ago in the X case. He is

:56:42. > :56:46.living with the consequences of that. We have since had a European

:56:46. > :56:50.Court of Human Rights ruling which puts pressure on the government to

:56:50. > :56:55.regularise the situation and we had an outpouring of public sympathy

:56:55. > :57:03.late last year in the case of the Indian lady living in Ireland who

:57:03. > :57:08.died during a pregnancy. What about the 25,000 people who went out,

:57:08. > :57:15.pro-life campaigners, yesterday? Will that make the politicians more

:57:15. > :57:18.nervous when they see the strength of feeling? A lot of the anti-

:57:18. > :57:22.abortion people are willing to go on the streets to demonstrate their

:57:22. > :57:26.position and they have been given some strong backing by the Catholic

:57:26. > :57:33.Church, but the polls have shown that the majority of Irish people

:57:33. > :57:37.are now in favour of some degree of liberalisation of the abortion laws.

:57:37. > :57:43.Not abortion on demand but in circumstances where for example a

:57:43. > :57:48.woman has been raped, she is carrying a foetus that is not

:57:48. > :57:52.viable, a child has been raped and so on. There are these situations,

:57:52. > :57:56.but they don't want to go out and demonstrate on that. A lot of

:57:56. > :58:01.people who support a woman's right to choose abortion don't want to go

:58:01. > :58:04.out on the street and shout about it. They think it is a private

:58:04. > :58:09.thing for a woman to make her own decision. There has been a

:58:09. > :58:13.civilised debate within the committee system on this, and I

:58:13. > :58:18.think most people hope they can introduce the legislation in that

:58:18. > :58:23.kind of temperate manner without seeing a return to the very nasty

:58:23. > :58:28.scenes that we saw back in the 1980s. And Neil, in terms of the

:58:28. > :58:33.economy, do you think he is doing a good job? The Germans think he is

:58:33. > :58:41.doing a fine job. The tough hand he has been dealt. It is a much better

:58:41. > :58:47.time across the western world to be in opposition, but Ireland is not

:58:47. > :58:57.in the same position as the UK. It can't print its own money, it has

:58:57. > :59:02.to have someone to lend the money, so this is extremely important.

:59:02. > :59:08.it fair to compare Greece to Ireland? No, Ireland has a much

:59:08. > :59:12.stronger economy, a higher skills profile, and also as a have seen it

:59:12. > :59:16.has been able to make changes. Its people have taken some

:59:16. > :59:21.responsibility for the difficulties they have found themselves in. The

:59:21. > :59:27.most fundamental difference is Island has a route to future

:59:27. > :59:33.economic success in a way that is not so easy to see in Greece.

:59:33. > :59:35.with us. Thank you. There was a bad-tempered return to

:59:35. > :59:45.Stormont this week after the festive break. Stephen Walker looks

:59:45. > :59:45.

:59:45. > :59:51.back in 60 seconds. A veteran Ulster Unionist joined the DUP and

:59:51. > :59:57.said his former party were finished. I think it is politically exhausted.

:59:57. > :00:05.I don't think it has any new ideas. Alex musky found himself in the

:00:05. > :00:09.firing line in a war of words about stone-throwing. Traders said profit

:00:09. > :00:14.was being damaged. Is trouble brewing in the Executive? There

:00:14. > :00:19.were strong words in the Short Strand. This is an occasion where

:00:19. > :00:28.we need to be seen to be standing together. Politicians sat round the

:00:28. > :00:33.table but Peter and Martin would not face the pressed together. The

:00:33. > :00:38.Secretary of State visited Alliance party offices and the flag issue

:00:38. > :00:43.was not far away. The want to know when this flag is going to go up in

:00:43. > :00:52.Belfast? Because it is going back to the 70s, and my childhood was

:00:52. > :00:58.ruined. So far so good in terms of the violence but the protests are

:00:58. > :01:03.continuing. What do you may covet? I think it shows a dreadful failure

:01:03. > :01:07.of leadership within Unionism. I was at the protest yesterday and I

:01:07. > :01:12.was listening to stuff I have been listening to as a journalist for

:01:12. > :01:17.decades. This no surrender politics, no compromise, they are getting

:01:17. > :01:22.everything, we are getting nothing, completely sectarian, abuse being

:01:22. > :01:28.shouted at the police along sectarian lines, and I think the

:01:28. > :01:33.Unionist leadership needs to tackle the sectarianism going on and stop

:01:33. > :01:37.people feeling that... It has got to be made clear that the Executive

:01:37. > :01:43.has left Northern Ireland with areas of extreme deprivation, but

:01:43. > :01:47.they are in republican and nationalist parts as well as

:01:47. > :01:51.loyalist parts. When you have major spokespersons for these protesters

:01:51. > :01:57.talking about part of the problem being that too many Catholics are

:01:57. > :02:03.in the police, Unionism has got to speak out against that kind of

:02:03. > :02:09.thing. It is unacceptable and dangerous. Neil, we have had a lot

:02:09. > :02:13.about the economy, what real impact is this having? It is devastating

:02:13. > :02:18.in many ways because it comes at a difficult time for things like the

:02:18. > :02:23.retail sector at the minute. Whilst not wanting to trivialise the

:02:23. > :02:27.political and cultural issues, from an economic point of view, for the

:02:27. > :02:35.business owner and the international investor, violence