:01:15. > :01:17.And here in Northern Ireland: With the union flag issue refusing
:01:17. > :01:27.to go away, the Alliance MP Naomi Long explains her party's
:01:27. > :01:27.
:01:27. > :36:21.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2093 seconds
:36:21. > :36:24.opposition to flying the flag at Hello, and welcome to the Sunday
:36:24. > :36:28.Politics in Northern Ireland. It's an issue that won't go away -
:36:28. > :36:30.the flying of the union flag in Belfast, with the focus now moving
:36:30. > :36:32.to the Cenotaph. The Alliance Party MP Naomi Long
:36:32. > :36:35.outlines her party's position. Also the yearly scramble for
:36:35. > :36:37.nursery and primary school places. Why can't the authorities get the
:36:37. > :36:40.numbers right? And with their thoughts, journalists Alex Kane and
:36:40. > :36:43.Suzanne Breen. On Friday an attempt by the DUP to
:36:43. > :36:47.have the Union flag flown every day from the Cenotaph at City Hall
:36:47. > :36:49.failed and the Alliance Party is refusing to back the bid at a key
:36:49. > :36:51.council committee. The party cited equality implications and
:36:51. > :36:54.opposition from the Royal British Legion. But the issue has taken
:36:54. > :36:58.another turn, with efforts to increase the number of days the
:36:58. > :37:01.Union flag can be flown over City Hall itself back on the agenda. To
:37:01. > :37:03.discuss the issue I'm joined by Naomi Long, the Alliance MP for
:37:03. > :37:07.east Belfast. The flag's flying today to mark the
:37:07. > :37:15.Queen's birthday. Why did Alliance vote against flying the flag every
:37:15. > :37:19.day at the Cenotaph? Well, in terms of the Cenotaph, the
:37:19. > :37:24.proposal came forward on the same evening that the decision was being
:37:24. > :37:28.taken in respect to the flag flying on City Hall. It was lobbed into
:37:28. > :37:35.the debate by the way of a grenade as a result of wider discussion
:37:35. > :37:37.that had taken part earlier than that. About. We were said we were
:37:38. > :37:42.willing to listen and we were willing to listen to the arguments
:37:42. > :37:46.for and against an we would reach a judgment and that is what we have
:37:46. > :37:49.done. The most compelling voice for me in that was the voice of the
:37:49. > :37:52.Royal British Legion who made it very clear that as the national
:37:52. > :37:57.body who are the custodians of remembrance they believe that the
:37:57. > :38:00.current moves and the manner in which the issue had been raised in
:38:00. > :38:03.City Hall risk politicising remembrance in a way that was
:38:03. > :38:08.unhelpful and we have to take cognisance of that because we don't
:38:08. > :38:13.want to exploit our war dead. They should be respected. It is
:38:13. > :38:17.important that we put the situation to bed quickly. Is one of the
:38:17. > :38:20.difficulties for your party that it looks not to have a settled opinion
:38:20. > :38:24.on this. It looks to some people from the outside that the party has
:38:24. > :38:27.changed tack on a number of occasions. Maura Hendron said at
:38:27. > :38:31.the time that the original decision was taken that she would have no
:38:31. > :38:38.difficulty with a flying over the Cenotaph every day but there has
:38:38. > :38:41.been or change of ideas. No, there hasn't. She said she would have no
:38:41. > :38:44.problem with it but it would have to be subject to a quality
:38:44. > :38:50.assessment and we would have to take a reading from the community
:38:50. > :38:54.and when we did that it was clear that it was not a good idea. She
:38:54. > :38:57.had no personal animosity to the idea but she was willing to listen.
:38:57. > :39:01.There is a problem that if you are willing to listen you are seen to
:39:01. > :39:10.not take a position and then if you take a position you are told you
:39:10. > :39:13.are not making decisions. It now looks as though the centre half has
:39:13. > :39:17.gone away, is that your understanding? What the Unionists
:39:17. > :39:21.seem to be suggesting is that the number of days on which the flag
:39:21. > :39:27.could fly over City Hall could be examined and increased. They have
:39:27. > :39:31.put forward suggestions of perhaps commemorations of the Battle of the
:39:31. > :39:35.Somme or the Battle of Messines or maybe Ulster Day. That would mean
:39:35. > :39:38.more days but not every day, would that be a compromise? There is a
:39:38. > :39:42.difficulty with all of that because we don't know if the Cenotaph has
:39:42. > :39:45.gone away and we don't know if people will pursue it. But it would
:39:45. > :39:50.need your support. It would, and that means it would not happen but
:39:50. > :39:56.that does not mean it has gone away. People already know hour position
:39:56. > :40:01.on City Hall but a already bringing forward additional days as options.
:40:01. > :40:04.That was our second most favoured option, not the first. The first
:40:04. > :40:07.was designated days only. Our position is already clear and it
:40:07. > :40:11.will not stop people bringing further proposals because I think
:40:11. > :40:15.there is a will in City Hall for some people to keep the pot boiling
:40:15. > :40:19.on the flags issued by what we want to see his clarity on how they are
:40:19. > :40:23.flown, not just at City Hall but at every council across Northern
:40:23. > :40:26.Ireland. This is crucial because in the next few years we will see a
:40:26. > :40:31.reorganisation of councils and 11 new councils and each of them, if
:40:31. > :40:33.we don't get an agreed position as part of the review of public
:40:33. > :40:36.administration will waste a year or two years bickering over when the
:40:36. > :40:40.flag should fly and what flag should fly at how we should slide.
:40:40. > :40:43.Let us get a result that a political level so we take it out
:40:43. > :40:47.of the equation and we have a settled decision. I personally
:40:47. > :40:52.believe that should be designated days at every council across
:40:52. > :40:56.Northern Ireland. He just to broaden the conversation for a
:40:56. > :41:01.moment. You are the MP for East Belfast. There was this historical
:41:01. > :41:05.UVF parade as those organising it build it. There were as many as
:41:05. > :41:09.10,000 people taking part and they say it was a history pageant. Are
:41:09. > :41:13.you satisfied that it went off as well as it could have done? I am
:41:13. > :41:17.satisfied that he went off largely without incident and that is to be
:41:17. > :41:19.welcomed. I am also pleased that those who organised the parade went
:41:19. > :41:23.through the normal procedures of applying to the Parades Commission
:41:23. > :41:27.in order to do with. That is how orderly parades should be organised
:41:27. > :41:32.within the structure of Northern Ireland. There are issues arising
:41:32. > :41:35.from the parade, not necessarily with the parade itself but in terms
:41:35. > :41:39.of how residents are consulted around those issues because many
:41:39. > :41:45.residents were not so Ray -- aware parade would go through the
:41:45. > :41:48.neighbourhood until last weekend until the flags were being put up
:41:48. > :41:52.on the lamp-posts. We need to look at those issues and start to
:41:52. > :41:56.address those. Five do you want to see the flags taken down as quickly
:41:56. > :42:00.they were taking up? Obviously that is what I want to see because I
:42:00. > :42:05.don't believe there is a place for that kind of public display.
:42:05. > :42:07.Particularly when they are imposed on the communities with no public
:42:07. > :42:12.consultation and not listening to the sensitivities of the people
:42:12. > :42:15.within the community. The pattern has been when they go up they go up
:42:15. > :42:18.quickly and when they come down it is because the weather takes it
:42:18. > :42:23.Tylenol because somebody responsibly takes them down. Winnie
:42:23. > :42:27.proposals on how to deal with flags because the current situation is
:42:27. > :42:31.not sustainable. Were you concerned about the speeches that took place
:42:31. > :42:34.at the end of the parade? Journalists were prevented from
:42:34. > :42:39.witnessing what was said. I don't think anybody expected that to
:42:39. > :42:44.happen. Did that concern you? seemed particularly strange, given
:42:44. > :42:47.that the purpose of the parade, according to the organisers, was to
:42:47. > :42:51.commemorate the people who formed the UDF and then went on to fight
:42:51. > :42:55.at the Battle of the Somme and preserve people's right to freedom
:42:56. > :42:58.of speech and an open and Alan Quinn society. It seems rather
:42:58. > :43:02.ironic that they would inhibit journalists from recording what was
:43:02. > :43:06.happening at the event. It was said to be an inclusive and open event
:43:06. > :43:11.and they did not on the media to cover that. I can understand that
:43:11. > :43:21.and they need to give an explanation for that themselves.
:43:21. > :43:23.
:43:23. > :43:27.we will leave that there now. Let's hear from my other guests,
:43:27. > :43:30.the journalists Suzanne Breen and Alex Kane. I was surprised that the
:43:30. > :43:35.journalists were not allowed to cover that because recently they
:43:35. > :43:38.have been complaining that the BBC is distorting all of their messages
:43:38. > :43:43.and so you would have thought and a big celebration like this they
:43:43. > :43:49.would allow the speakers to be questioned. Ice asked yesterday why
:43:49. > :43:52.it they did that and they told me they were toughening up and showing
:43:52. > :43:54.to the media that they could not be their puppets. This is
:43:54. > :43:59.extraordinary. You cannot blame the media and then refused to co-
:43:59. > :44:02.operate with them. The loyalist policy of dealing with the media
:44:02. > :44:05.has been atrocious compared to nationalists and republicans. They
:44:05. > :44:09.constantly complain of censorship and then they deny freedom of
:44:09. > :44:14.speech and turn journalists away and banned journalists. It is are
:44:14. > :44:17.unacceptable and on called for. did not understand it, unless there
:44:18. > :44:23.is something that they eat was saying that they did not want to be
:44:23. > :44:30.reported. I don't get that impression at all. I suspect, and
:44:31. > :44:34.this is my cynicism, I suspect they may have expected some mistakes
:44:34. > :44:42.there maybe if they thought there was going to be heckling they might
:44:42. > :44:45.say something unscripted but it looked the other way round, a look
:44:45. > :44:50.to have though they would try to stop people hearing anything they
:44:51. > :44:55.were saying. The issue of the flax is not resolved as far as Belfast
:44:55. > :44:59.City Hall is resolved but are we inching towards some sort of
:44:59. > :45:04.resolution, not the Cenotaph but maybe a proposal to an increased
:45:04. > :45:07.list of designated days. The amount of time spent on this has been
:45:07. > :45:10.absolutely ridiculous and the wasted resources in terms of
:45:10. > :45:13.parades and Policing and the trouble that has been caused.
:45:13. > :45:17.People really, really need to grow up. A decision has been taken by
:45:17. > :45:21.the council and there should be a. Personally, given the recession a
:45:21. > :45:26.people losing their jobs and people are struggling on low income I
:45:26. > :45:30.don't care if the Union Flag, the tricolour or the skull and
:45:30. > :45:35.crossbones flies at City Hall, and that is the situation for so many
:45:35. > :45:39.people. That is not a major issue in our society but it has been
:45:39. > :45:43.politically manipulated by the DUP because they want to oust Naomi
:45:43. > :45:48.Long from her feet and also by Sinn Fein who are calling this a victory
:45:48. > :45:52.to hide the fact that Sinn Fein have accepted partition and the DUP
:45:52. > :45:56.has its own reasons for wanting it on the streets because it wants to
:45:56. > :46:00.proper pace did against the Alliance Party. I think Suzanne is
:46:00. > :46:04.substantially right. What strikes me about all of this is that
:46:04. > :46:09.usually the DUP is pretty canny in the territory it chooses to fight
:46:09. > :46:12.and fight it chooses to have. Back to last August with the Parades
:46:12. > :46:16.Commission stuff and the Alliance stuff in September and the thing
:46:16. > :46:19.about the corporals a few weeks ago and now the Cenotaph. On every
:46:19. > :46:23.issue they seem to be getting it wrong in approach and a tactics.
:46:23. > :46:27.They are going into battle that they must know they cannot win. I
:46:27. > :46:29.don't understand why they are doing. Yes they thought it might damage
:46:30. > :46:33.the Alliance Party a few months ago but now they have done so much
:46:33. > :46:38.collateral damage to themselves and the UUP is out of the equation any
:46:38. > :46:41.damage to be done to alliance has been lessened. Interesting to get
:46:41. > :46:44.your thoughts on that, Naomi. We have had discussions about it
:46:44. > :46:48.before. You would say it is absolutely about you being targeted
:46:48. > :46:53.for political reasons in east Belfast but do you agree that the
:46:53. > :46:56.tide has now turned and the wind is now in your back? I agree with Alex
:46:56. > :47:00.and Cezanne on the fact that most people are thoroughly sickened with
:47:01. > :47:05.it the whole debate and want an end. We are not continuing to bring new
:47:05. > :47:08.proposals to the table, we want it to be put to bed for once and for
:47:08. > :47:12.all. That is one of the reasons why these proposals for additional days,
:47:12. > :47:16.we know there is a list of additional days that people are
:47:16. > :47:19.looking at that could carry us through one a month until the next
:47:19. > :47:24.elections. We are concerned about will simply keep the window open.
:47:24. > :47:28.We need to find ways of respecting emblems and singles and flags and
:47:28. > :47:33.doing it in a way that does not cause upheaval. That is not a war
:47:33. > :47:36.of attrition at City Hall. If people have serious proposes an
:47:36. > :47:39.additional days they should be included, take them to the
:47:39. > :47:43.Department of Culture and, Media and Sport, who decide on designated
:47:43. > :47:46.days and let them do that as they do for every other designated date
:47:46. > :47:50.but it should not be fought out on the floor of city council. People
:47:50. > :47:53.should be focusing on what is good for the City as a whole, for
:47:53. > :47:57.business and all the people who live in the City, this constant
:47:57. > :48:01.warmth lacks is not good for the City, not good for the city centre,
:48:01. > :48:05.not good for businesses across the city and not good for local
:48:05. > :48:07.communities. Thank you very much for joining us. We will hear more
:48:07. > :48:10.from Suzanne and Alex later in the programme.
:48:10. > :48:13.According to the Education Minister we've too many empty desks in our
:48:13. > :48:16.primary schools, but try telling that to the dozens of parents who
:48:16. > :48:21.found out this week there's no place for their children in their
:48:21. > :48:24.preferred primary schools. And it's not just primary places. Every year
:48:24. > :48:27.we hear about nursery or pre-school units being over-subscribed. While
:48:27. > :48:29.the situation has improved in recent years, why is it so
:48:29. > :48:32.difficult to plan for primary and nursery provision? We'll hear from
:48:32. > :48:35.Danny Kinahan, deputy chair of the Education Committee, and Joanne
:48:35. > :48:38.Browne, principal of St Ita's Primary School in south Belfast, in
:48:38. > :48:40.just a moment. But first the thoughts of some parents in south
:48:40. > :48:42.Belfast. I am a working parent, so for me a
:48:42. > :48:45.place is very important. If the criteria has led by parents who
:48:45. > :48:48.don't work, then that would be a concern. They think you should be
:48:48. > :48:51.prioritised for people who are out working. For there are a lot of
:48:51. > :48:56.shortages, particularly in pre- school and nursery placements and I
:48:56. > :49:00.have not seen any evidence of many changes to deal with increasing
:49:00. > :49:04.population or additional places be needed and I have not seen any
:49:04. > :49:08.extra nurseries opened, other than private nurseries, which cost a
:49:08. > :49:11.fortune. We have another couple of years until the two of them are in
:49:11. > :49:15.schools so it is something I will meet other look at but I don't
:49:15. > :49:20.really know how the schooling system works. I need to go away and
:49:20. > :49:23.work out what is the best thing for the two of them. We are being told
:49:23. > :49:29.by friends and family that it will be very difficult because my
:49:29. > :49:33.daughter and her husband work full- time and there is a lack of places
:49:33. > :49:36.generally anyway. I cannot register where I live, it is much more
:49:36. > :49:42.difficult now to get your child into a pre-school place or a
:49:42. > :49:48.nursery or playgroup than it was 25 years ago. Danny Kinahan and Joanne
:49:48. > :49:52.Browne are with me now. Why does this continue to be such a problem?
:49:52. > :49:56.I think the department and the minister do not bother to sit down
:49:56. > :50:00.on lookout the short-term plans that are needed each year. It is
:50:00. > :50:02.better this year in certain areas but we are constantly looking at
:50:02. > :50:07.long-term strategies rather than looking at the grand to see where
:50:07. > :50:10.parents want to send the children, almost like marketing, looking at
:50:10. > :50:15.whether places are needed are trying to fit to it. We have area
:50:15. > :50:18.planning going on that frightens everyone else at the top but down,
:50:18. > :50:21.local issues, no one seems to be planning. It is enormously
:50:21. > :50:26.difficult to get it right because you have to plan a number of years
:50:26. > :50:31.in advance. The minister is dealing with many schools where, actually,
:50:31. > :50:35.the role is falling so he has excess capacity but in some pockets
:50:35. > :50:39.he has under capacity so it is quite a difficult trip for any one
:50:39. > :50:43.tooth Wolof. It is far he has got to have people on the ground and
:50:43. > :50:47.the boards are being run down so no one is contemplating whether a
:50:47. > :50:51.school needs 20 places next year or five. It has got better but we have
:50:51. > :50:56.got to find a way of helping the working families as well. At the
:50:56. > :51:00.moment there is a bias against them. Because parents on benefits trump
:51:00. > :51:04.working parents? Yes, and quite rightly, but at the same time if we
:51:04. > :51:08.were to look at a certain level below which we had to help working
:51:08. > :51:11.parents then that would be important as well. You have had to
:51:12. > :51:15.turn parents away from the school and that is not what you want to be
:51:15. > :51:20.doing? Absolutely not. In the last couple of weeks parents have been
:51:20. > :51:24.very upset. On the 10th letters were issued for nursery places and
:51:24. > :51:30.parents were disappointed that they did not receive a place in our
:51:30. > :51:36.nursery unit. On top of that, they can accept the nursery school, but
:51:36. > :51:40.what they are afraid of is December -- SEP- 2014, what happens them? We
:51:40. > :51:44.have had the primary letters issued and many parents have also been
:51:44. > :51:46.disappointed and they may not even have got into the second, third or
:51:47. > :51:50.4th choice and they may have to consider going to a different
:51:50. > :51:54.sector away from home and they are very upset and we empathise with
:51:54. > :52:00.them. Where does the problem lie? Is it with the Minister or the
:52:00. > :52:05.boards or area planning laws core principles? If no. Not the
:52:05. > :52:11.principles! It is everybody else's fault for! We are doing our best.
:52:11. > :52:15.We have supported Our applications for additional places and
:52:15. > :52:19.thankfully we have got extra places. This has been three years coming.
:52:19. > :52:23.First of all we applied for minor works and it did not materialise
:52:23. > :52:28.and again last year. Ideally you have to have the children there
:52:28. > :52:32.before you get, before it makes sense to have a developmental
:52:32. > :52:34.proposal. You are a good school in an area of high demand and you have
:52:34. > :52:37.a catchment area where the numbers are going up and knock down. But
:52:37. > :52:43.the minister has to balance that with a very different picture, the
:52:43. > :52:45.absolute opposite in many parts of the country. Absolutely. Not every
:52:45. > :52:50.parish or community is oversubscribed. There are pockets
:52:50. > :52:54.that need to be addressed. I think it is difficult for parents. They
:52:54. > :52:58.have to actually move out of that but the reality is that schools
:52:58. > :53:06.have a maximum capacity and we cannot take everybody. As much as I
:53:06. > :53:08.would want to take everybody our school is a restricted by our side.
:53:08. > :53:12.He will be Education & Skills Authority be part of the solution
:53:12. > :53:16.when it is up and running? If it is up and running. We wanted to place
:53:16. > :53:19.in a different form and it is. It could do it and again we are going
:53:19. > :53:22.up to higher level. We need something at a lower level, whether
:53:22. > :53:26.it is board-level local groups that can actually deal with what is
:53:26. > :53:29.happening on the ground and look at the numbers from year to year
:53:29. > :53:34.instead of five-year plans or ten- year plans or even longer. So what
:53:34. > :53:37.is the optimum time scale, do you think, that those responsible for
:53:37. > :53:41.planning need to think about because you have year on year, as
:53:41. > :53:45.Joe and has said and you have just spoken about 10 years. It is a
:53:45. > :53:50.conjuring trick, the like of which I think we are all agreed that we
:53:50. > :53:53.are not being asked to pull off. absolutely but you have to have a
:53:53. > :53:56.system in place that is looking at the parents that are coming and in
:53:56. > :54:02.each counsellor at birth rates and other things to go by, there must
:54:02. > :54:06.be ways of doing it. Do you accept that their situation is getting
:54:06. > :54:09.better every year? Is that if that was my aim now particular area it
:54:09. > :54:14.is not. We have done a lot of surveys... That is another thing
:54:14. > :54:18.you're going against the trend on! There is a lot of rapid growth and
:54:18. > :54:21.new developments in our area. We analyse baptismal register so we
:54:21. > :54:25.are prepared for the next few years and we know that the figures are
:54:25. > :54:29.rising so we know what will happen in the next two years and it is
:54:29. > :54:33.frightening in our particular area. Again with area planning and the
:54:33. > :54:36.board working together on area planning then it is good because
:54:36. > :54:40.they will put sustainable measures in place and it will happen at the
:54:40. > :54:45.time but there is an emergency now to get children sorted for
:54:45. > :54:49.September and September next year and it has to be addressed fairly
:54:49. > :54:58.urgently. It will be interesting to see how it pans out. A lot of
:54:58. > :55:01.disappointed people in the past, that is for sure. Thank you very
:55:01. > :55:08.much. Now, let's take a look back at the political week in 60 seconds.
:55:08. > :55:12.Here's Gareth Gordon. Trouble at the executive. The DUP
:55:12. > :55:15.and Sinn Fein crossed swords over who was to blame for lack of
:55:15. > :55:18.progress. They need to wake up and smell the
:55:18. > :55:21.coffee and start taking decisions instead of frustrating the good
:55:21. > :55:27.government of Northern Ireland. should be going into rooms and
:55:27. > :55:31.sitting down and talking through the issues. The row frustrated
:55:32. > :55:35.leading industrialists. If they were a business they would be
:55:35. > :55:40.bankrupt. A bomb attack on the Boston Marathon leaves three people
:55:40. > :55:43.dead and hundreds injured. All of those who have been to Boston won
:55:43. > :55:47.over the city is at once American, European and Irish. The funeral of
:55:48. > :55:56.Baroness Thatcher took place and 1,000 lined the streets to play
:55:56. > :56:02.their last respects. A after Francie Molloy made success in a
:56:03. > :56:11.by-election he became the deputy speaker. Is there a second for him?
:56:11. > :56:16.I would be the second. Gareth Gordon reoporting. Let's
:56:16. > :56:21.hear a final thought from Alex and Suzanne.
:56:21. > :56:25.Talk about political disunity in the executive, particularly between
:56:25. > :56:29.the DUP and Sinn Fein. We keep hearing a lot about it, we hear the
:56:29. > :56:33.relationship at the top has not good. Alex Attwood said on Thursday
:56:33. > :56:37.that there is a frosty relationship in the executive, frostier than
:56:37. > :56:41.eager as ever known. What is the answer? The whole of Stormont is
:56:41. > :56:45.dysfunctional, the whole set-up is dysfunctional. This is really about
:56:45. > :56:49.two parties playing to their grassroots. I don't believe there
:56:49. > :56:52.is any great ultimate disagreements between Peter Robinson and Martin
:56:52. > :56:56.McGuinness, I don't think there is any particular personal problems,
:56:56. > :57:00.it is really just about both parties appeasing their grass roots.
:57:00. > :57:03.It is a very phoney war. They actually get on a lot better than a
:57:03. > :57:07.lot of people with thing but they are aiming to keep their grassroots
:57:07. > :57:11.on board with these walls and is nit-picking. Do you think people
:57:11. > :57:18.get on better than people think or do you think the frostiness is 100%
:57:18. > :57:22.genuine? I think it is not 100% genuine but it is genuine. What is
:57:22. > :57:25.the difference? I think they are almost hate each other, but not
:57:25. > :57:29.quite. These are two men leading to parties who do not want to be
:57:29. > :57:34.around the same table. They don't want to be the same government they
:57:34. > :57:37.do not have the same duffer of -- agenda. The only reason they stay
:57:37. > :57:42.together is mutual assured destruction if one of them pull out.
:57:42. > :57:46.Is mutual veto, mutual hostility. They despise each other's presence
:57:46. > :57:49.in government. They are playing to their own galleries because they
:57:49. > :57:53.have no other option but to play to their own galleries because there
:57:53. > :57:57.is no one else to play two. they say that they want to be there
:57:57. > :58:01.and they want to make the system work. That is a delight the parties
:58:01. > :58:04.saying, we want opposition but we will not go into it. This is the
:58:04. > :58:08.reverse. We want to be together because we tried to send us some
:58:08. > :58:11.sort of message but as soon as you say you do not want to be there or
:58:11. > :58:15.share, you will come back and ask them why they are there. They are
:58:15. > :58:18.there because they have to be and there is no love involve. Four we
:58:18. > :58:22.saw an extract of John Cunningham saying that the executive would be
:58:22. > :58:28.bankrupted it was a business. Is it a fair,? Absolutely fair,. I think
:58:28. > :58:35.it would be bust. The reality is that most people on the ground are
:58:35. > :58:37.disconnected from the situation there. All that raises their
:58:37. > :58:42.interest his expenses, civil servants, foreign junkets,
:58:42. > :58:49.thousands of pounds being wasted. That is there any interest in