:00:36. > :00:40.Hello, and welcome to Sunday Politics in Northern Ireland. The
:00:41. > :00:43.Ulster Unionist Party faithful met this weekend for their annual
:00:44. > :00:46.conference. With the party's first major electoral challenge under the
:00:47. > :00:49.leadership of Mike Nesbitt now just months away - did he persuade
:00:50. > :00:54.members he can turn their fortunes around? If the right message is sent
:00:55. > :01:00.and the hard work is put in, I believe we can make a comeback. We
:01:01. > :01:06.have a great youth wing. We have a great leader. Mike Nesbitt joins me
:01:07. > :01:08.live in studio. And as the First Minister, Peter Robinson, praises
:01:09. > :01:11.the GAA's efforts in peace-building, a leading GAA commentator plays
:01:12. > :01:16.hardball over clubs and tournaments being named after republican
:01:17. > :01:19.paramilitaries. I'll be asking Peter Sheridan, the man who organised
:01:20. > :01:22.Thursday's dinner at which Mr Robinson made his comments, if it's
:01:23. > :01:27.now a case of one step forward and two steps back? To discuss that and
:01:28. > :01:35.more I'm joined by today's commentators, Sheila Davidson and
:01:36. > :01:39.Malachi O'Doherty. The Ulster Unionist leader has unveiled his
:01:40. > :01:42.alternative to a peace centre at the Maze. Mike Nesbitt used his
:01:43. > :01:46.conference speech to call for the setting up of a world class trauma
:01:47. > :01:50.centre for those suffering mental illness. The conference was told the
:01:51. > :01:56.party is more united than it's been in years. Here's our Political
:01:57. > :02:01.Correspondent, Gareth Gordon. He is a man the critics claim who is
:02:02. > :02:06.pedalling as fast as he can, but still getting nowhere. Unfair, say
:02:07. > :02:13.the vast majority of people here who believe that under Mike Nesbitt,
:02:14. > :02:17.they are finally moving forward. It is a year and a half since he became
:02:18. > :02:22.Ulster Unionist leader on this very stage in this very room. As good a
:02:23. > :02:29.time as any to ask what has changed under his leadership. Those who are
:02:30. > :02:36.left claim they are better off without the likes of Basil McCrea
:02:37. > :02:40.and John McCallister. No sign of division, there is united approach.
:02:41. > :02:43.There is a dedicated attitude and we are moving forward under the sound
:02:44. > :02:50.and capable leadership of Mike Nesbitt. All the people who
:02:51. > :02:55.disagreed with him are gone! We are not interested in what has gone
:02:56. > :03:00.before. The next test will come next year under the election. Their
:03:01. > :03:11.European candidate was talking about speech-making. We have got to show
:03:12. > :03:17.improvement and that is obvious. We are up for that and are prepared to
:03:18. > :03:20.do it. We believe we have the policies and you will hear later
:03:21. > :03:23.today some ideas going forward. We are trying to bring forward a new
:03:24. > :03:28.generation of people. You have to have a mix of experience and youth.
:03:29. > :03:31.Certainly there was a sprinkling of youth among the more mature
:03:32. > :03:40.membership, so who are they and why did they join? For me it was the
:03:41. > :03:45.youth wing. The party itself, its policy, the great leader we have,
:03:46. > :03:53.that is why I joined. Do you see a future in politics? Possibly. In the
:03:54. > :04:01.past youth was not promoted, is that changing? It is. There are dozens of
:04:02. > :04:04.young candidates coming through. I have been selected to run and there
:04:05. > :04:10.are a number of other colleagues doing the same. If the right message
:04:11. > :04:14.is sent and the hard work is put in, I believe the Ulster Unionist Party
:04:15. > :04:17.can make a comeback. Mike Nesbitt has been accused of taking the party
:04:18. > :04:20.to the right and here he was prepared to take a risk, posing for
:04:21. > :04:28.photographs with an organisation many unionists are trying to get rid
:04:29. > :04:31.of. It is a good thing with the political leader to engage with
:04:32. > :04:35.anyone who has a part to play in the future of Northern Ireland. The
:04:36. > :04:39.Parades Commission has a future to play in Northern Ireland. You know I
:04:40. > :04:44.would like to see them replaced, that is on the agenda for talks, but
:04:45. > :04:49.that is no reason not to show ability to people who want to engage
:04:50. > :04:52.with a political party. His conference idea was a mental health
:04:53. > :05:01.centre to replace the troubled Peace Centre at the Maze. Who would it be
:05:02. > :05:15.for? Let me be clear, this centre is for everyone. Even those for whom we
:05:16. > :05:19.may feel little or no sympathy. The conference closed for the first time
:05:20. > :05:30.with a performance by a pipe band from County Antrim, a change of
:05:31. > :05:33.tack, if not of tune. Gareth Gordon reporting - and Mike
:05:34. > :05:37.Nesbitt is with me now. Several commentators said yesterday's speech
:05:38. > :05:42.needed to be the best of your political career - do you think you
:05:43. > :05:47.hit the target? People in the room seemed happy, people on social media
:05:48. > :05:53.seemed happy. I am not happy because I have never done that and thought I
:05:54. > :05:56.could do a bit better. In broadcasting and politics, people
:05:57. > :06:00.are quick to tell you what they do not like, they are not so generous
:06:01. > :06:04.in terms of saying when you have done something they do like. The
:06:05. > :06:11.feedback I am getting has been surprisingly positive and there has
:06:12. > :06:15.been a surprising volume of it. Might that be because there has been
:06:16. > :06:18.no internal debate because some of the key people opposed to your
:06:19. > :06:27.leadership or were unhappy have now left the party? Only two people left
:06:28. > :06:34.the party. We had a lot more people in the room today that we had last
:06:35. > :06:38.year. We had a Friday afternoon session about party development, it
:06:39. > :06:41.was in the same room it was in last year, that room was three quarters
:06:42. > :06:48.full a year ago, people were up yesterday. Two figures left the
:06:49. > :06:51.party and there was much talk about that, give me an example if they are
:06:52. > :06:58.not significant, of a hotly contested policy issue in the Ulster
:06:59. > :07:01.Unionist Party at the moment? All the issues we have been talking
:07:02. > :07:08.about, like abortion, are matters of conscience. There are some debates
:07:09. > :07:13.in the party. Welfare Reform Act is something that is coming down the
:07:14. > :07:17.tracks now. The DUP said the sky would fall in if we did not bring in
:07:18. > :07:21.the legislation and here we are in October, the sky has not fallen in,
:07:22. > :07:28.but it might, because this package will take 750 million out of the
:07:29. > :07:35.Northern Ireland economy. Is that a debate in your party? Yes. We are
:07:36. > :07:41.arguing about it internally, we are having debates. We are having robust
:07:42. > :07:45.debates and that is perfectly healthy within a political party. We
:07:46. > :07:50.are a much healthier political party than we were in 2012. You spoke last
:07:51. > :07:53.year about being a liberal and progressive Unionist, that is what
:07:54. > :08:01.you said you wanted to be, but critics would say you have taken to
:08:02. > :08:08.the party on the right. I do not agree with that. All those issues
:08:09. > :08:14.are in the talks and that is where they should be and I think we should
:08:15. > :08:17.give the talks the space they need. Flags is tangible, parades is
:08:18. > :08:26.tangible, there are only so many ways you can cut and dice them. We
:08:27. > :08:29.can reach agreement on those. Dealing with the past is different,
:08:30. > :08:33.it is a major challenge and one of the little tokens of that has been
:08:34. > :08:40.the so-called Peace Centre at the Maze. They did not tell people what
:08:41. > :08:44.the function of it was and that is why I have come out with an
:08:45. > :08:52.alternative that everyone can buy into, because it is for everyone and
:08:53. > :08:55.offers practical help. Tens of thousands of our citizens suffer
:08:56. > :09:01.from PTSD and other mental health issues. Let us build a facility that
:09:02. > :09:05.is world-class, the whole world would look to say we want to come,
:09:06. > :09:13.we want to share in that, you have expertise that will help us. It
:09:14. > :09:19.seems that this has come out of the blue. I have studied these things
:09:20. > :09:22.for some time, I was a victims commissioner. You see on Wednesday,
:09:23. > :09:26.when they say that these people have been coming forward and these issues
:09:27. > :09:41.in terms of employment and training, mental health will be up there and
:09:42. > :09:47.everything else will be down there. Have you costed this? You can save,
:09:48. > :09:54.you can do it for a fraction of the 18 million euros that was set aside
:09:55. > :09:58.for the Maze Peace Centre. How can you build this that will be the envy
:09:59. > :10:03.of other countries for under ?18 million? I have spoken to experts
:10:04. > :10:08.who say you can do it for under that cost. The cost will depend on the
:10:09. > :10:12.venue and they do not want us to get hung up on a debate about venue, I
:10:13. > :10:16.said that there is a suggestion and it was only a suggestion, a venue
:10:17. > :10:24.that has been lying idle for a lot of years, it is on sale for ?1.6
:10:25. > :10:27.million. The taxpayer will never see the money back, two or three million
:10:28. > :10:35.would convert that into a mental health centre. It might, but you are
:10:36. > :10:41.going to talk about putting in place programmes of work and experts who
:10:42. > :10:45.will cost a lot of money to recruit. I would have thought you would have
:10:46. > :10:53.no change out of ?18 million? Are you confusing the capital costs and
:10:54. > :10:57.the running costs? Talk to the Health Minister. You can set up
:10:58. > :11:08.centre and the running costs, how long is a piece of string? That is
:11:09. > :11:14.the point. A report has been largely ignored which says we have huge
:11:15. > :11:18.mental health issues. I am suggesting this and the first step
:11:19. > :11:23.is to say here is a concept and the second phase is to buy in and the
:11:24. > :11:32.third phase is to say what can we afford. You think that idea will
:11:33. > :11:36.excite people? I think it is a big idea and it is the right idea
:11:37. > :11:40.because we have tens of thousands of our citizens who do not get out of
:11:41. > :11:43.bed with a sense of purpose because of mental health problems and that
:11:44. > :11:46.is universally acknowledged and it is for everyone, even people whose
:11:47. > :11:50.mental health is a result of bad choices, we have to help them and
:11:51. > :12:03.their families, because it is also intergenerational. How do you turn
:12:04. > :12:08.the fortunes of your party around? We are now in a better place and if
:12:09. > :12:16.we continue, we will be in an even better position next year. Thank
:12:17. > :12:25.you. Now let's pause for a look at the political week gone past, in
:12:26. > :12:28.sixty seconds. The row over gay men and blood
:12:29. > :12:33.donation continues, the Health Minister addressed criticism. In
:12:34. > :12:39.terms of breaking the ministerial code, I did it unwittingly. The DPP
:12:40. > :12:43.try to clarify the implications of the abortion guidelines. It is
:12:44. > :12:46.difficult to envisage a circumstance were anyone could be accused of
:12:47. > :12:56.aiding or abetting a crime of having abortion in England. A plan to
:12:57. > :13:02.reallocate school funding was defended by the Minister. I am not
:13:03. > :13:07.here to take money off schools but I need to tackle social deprivation.
:13:08. > :13:13.Peter Robinson reached out to the GAA, but another minister got there
:13:14. > :13:19.first. I opened a newspaper to see a photograph of my colleague Nelson
:13:20. > :13:28.McCausland playing Gaelic football. That shows that all things are
:13:29. > :13:31.possible. Gareth Gordon reporting - and we'll
:13:32. > :13:35.be discussing that speech by Peter Robinson - and the subsequent
:13:36. > :13:37.reaction to it - a little later in the programme. Let's return to this
:13:38. > :13:41.weekend's Ulster Unionist Party conference - and here to discuss it
:13:42. > :13:45.with me are Sheila Davidson and Malachi O'Doherty. You are both
:13:46. > :13:49.welcome to the programme. Let me ask you what you made of Mike Nesbitt's
:13:50. > :13:59.speech yesterday and also his defence of it this morning. He is a
:14:00. > :14:31.polished performer. Part of the problem is it shows the contrast
:14:32. > :14:34.with those behind him. A. I wonder would those who would mostly be
:14:35. > :14:37.concerned to have PTSD treatment, say in the British Army, would they
:14:38. > :14:41.want to come here. Would they really want to come here? Essentially the
:14:42. > :14:44.idea is a good one, but whether it is an alternative to the Peace
:14:45. > :14:48.Centre and considering it is a stroke played within the broad
:14:49. > :14:52.culture war where everything has to be, we win and you lose. Do you see
:14:53. > :14:55.it as a credible alternative to the Maze Peace Centre? It is an
:14:56. > :14:58.interesting idea. I have experience of PTSD in my family, I know
:14:59. > :15:06.first-hand how traumatising that is in any family. The lack of mental
:15:07. > :15:09.health resources that we have is not something that we should be playing
:15:10. > :15:14.out in that kind of political field, there is a different role for that.
:15:15. > :15:18.I think that the interesting thing that you take out of the party
:15:19. > :15:22.conference was that he needs to be careful he is not turning into a one
:15:23. > :15:29.trick pony in terms of it is all about this culture war. This is a
:15:30. > :15:32.party which aspires to take back the leadership of the Unionist community
:15:33. > :15:36.and unless he is talking about the big issues, the economy, we are not
:15:37. > :15:45.actually going to get a feeling that he is going to be that leader in the
:15:46. > :15:49.future and I am not sure... His performance was good, and he perhaps
:15:50. > :15:55.needs to work harder on that. They need to play on a bigger stage. What
:15:56. > :15:59.about the way in which Mike Nesbitt has or hasn't pulled the party to
:16:00. > :16:07.the right? Where does that leave Liberal Unionist members of the
:16:08. > :16:11.Catholic community? That is the problem. It is part of the
:16:12. > :16:17.architecture of the agreement that this must happen. That militates
:16:18. > :16:23.against the possibility of unionism drawing in Catholics or nationalism
:16:24. > :16:28.drawing in Protestants. I do think that in time we have to look at that
:16:29. > :16:31.architecture and see how it can be changed. I would not like to be
:16:32. > :16:35.leading liberal unionism and having to show most of the time that you
:16:36. > :16:46.are more opposed to Sinn Fein than Peter Robinson is. That is a losing
:16:47. > :16:50.form. Thank you. The sight of the DUP leader at a high profile event
:16:51. > :16:52.praising the work of the GAA would, as Peter Robinson acknowledged
:16:53. > :16:56.himself, have been unimaginable just a few short years ago. But today the
:16:57. > :16:59.question is: has the move been overshadowed by comments made by the
:17:00. > :17:03.the high profile GAA commentator Joe Brolly who said it's no-one else's
:17:04. > :17:11.business if GAA clubs or tournaments are named after republican
:17:12. > :17:14.paramilitaries? In a moment we'll hear from the Chief Executive of
:17:15. > :17:17.Co-operation Ireland who organised Thursday night's event, but first
:17:18. > :17:20.here's a reminder of what Peter Robinson had to say and Joe Brolly's
:17:21. > :17:24.subsequent reaction. Joining me now from our Foyle studio is the man who
:17:25. > :17:27.organised the dinner at which the First Minister spoke about the GAA,
:17:28. > :17:31.the Chief Executive of Co-operation Ireland, Peter Sheridan. You are the
:17:32. > :17:34.man who was responsible for the dinner on Thursday night in which
:17:35. > :17:37.Peter Robinson made his comments, do what extent has Joe Brolly's
:17:38. > :17:40.reaction undone the efforts of Mr Robinson? I think it was
:17:41. > :17:43.disappointing to hear him, who has shown a generosity of spirit in
:17:44. > :17:47.other ways, to be so exclusive in his comments. What the GAA are
:17:48. > :17:50.trying to do is reach out to another community where they want to see
:17:51. > :17:53.young Protestant people playing their sport, they want people from
:17:54. > :17:56.the Protestant community coming to games and the director-general made
:17:57. > :18:00.that clear. For Joe Brolly to use that language word he says you can
:18:01. > :18:04.join it, you will have to abide by us, I think Peter Robinson in his
:18:05. > :18:06.remarks talked about the need for understanding, reaching beyond our
:18:07. > :18:09.own communities and unfortunately he was not reaching beyond his own
:18:10. > :18:17.community and trying to have that understanding of what that might
:18:18. > :18:22.mean for the other community. Why do you think that is the case? Why did
:18:23. > :18:28.he say what he said? Given that he has taken a different tack in public
:18:29. > :18:33.on other matters in the past. He has appeared to be more middle of the
:18:34. > :18:39.road in the past. You would have to ask him. When we use language like
:18:40. > :18:42.that, it pushes back the other community and then ignited a
:18:43. > :18:46.response from people who then were suggesting that Peter Robinson was
:18:47. > :18:49.wrong to outreach and try to move this into a different place by
:18:50. > :18:59.reaching out to the other community in some of the remarks he made. His
:19:00. > :19:03.speech was littered with positive comments. In 18 months, we have had
:19:04. > :19:07.negativity around flags, parades, Long Kesh and Maze, it was a move
:19:08. > :19:11.towards a positive speech, but then for Joe Brolly to push it back and
:19:12. > :19:17.say it is no one else's business, but the GAA are a sporting body and
:19:18. > :19:33.they want to encourage people of all traditions across this island to
:19:34. > :19:36.become involved in the sport. You have to understand the barriers
:19:37. > :19:51.which might prevent people from doing that. Who is more embarrassed?
:19:52. > :19:53.I think it has enhanced Peter Robinson's position because it
:19:54. > :19:56.demonstrated someone who was reaching out from his constituency
:19:57. > :20:07.and a willingness not to acknowledge the role of the GAA, but to praise
:20:08. > :20:16.it in peace building. He demonstrated that the GAA had out
:20:17. > :20:23.reached and were making moves. In some ways I think it put Peter
:20:24. > :20:26.Robinson in a better light. He has been criticised from people like Jim
:20:27. > :20:31.Allister who said he was foolhardy to make the speech. There were also
:20:32. > :20:35.people like Gregory Campbell and Sammy Wilson, they have not overly
:20:36. > :20:39.criticised him, but they have been clear to set out their stall of what
:20:40. > :20:47.they think of the GAA needs to do to be acceptable on the issue of naming
:20:48. > :20:50.its clubs and tournament in future. Anyone who was there would have
:20:51. > :20:54.acknowledged that Peter Robinson's statements were more statesman-like.
:20:55. > :20:57.We know what nationalist politicians stand for and we know what Unionist
:20:58. > :21:03.politicians stand for, but what we want to know is what they will do
:21:04. > :21:06.for the other side? Unfortunately the ethnic nature of politics here
:21:07. > :21:14.mean we always champion our own side, but Peter Robinson did not
:21:15. > :21:17.just do that on Thursday night. Unfortunately the remarks from Joe
:21:18. > :21:24.Brolly did not take into account what needs to be done for the other
:21:25. > :21:29.side. The people attacking Peter Robinson are doing the same thing.
:21:30. > :21:35.Were Joe Brolly's comments embarrassing? They were in contrast
:21:36. > :21:48.to what the director-general and Danny Murphy were saying. Thank you.
:21:49. > :21:53.Let's have a final thought on this from Sheila Davidson and Malachi
:21:54. > :21:57.O'Doherty. I think when you get anything like this, you scratch the
:21:58. > :22:04.surface, you get to a polarised point and that goes for both the GAA
:22:05. > :22:08.and anyone on the loyalist side. We have to understand the language we
:22:09. > :22:12.use and that is something we have to be more mature about. We need to
:22:13. > :22:16.recognise and understand that there are polarised positions, we will not
:22:17. > :22:19.get away from that, but if we get more statesman-like in the way Peter
:22:20. > :22:27.Robinson got and the GAA as well, then we have a way to go for the
:22:28. > :22:33.future. First of all, Peter Robinson going to the GAA dinner, and
:22:34. > :22:37.secondly, Joe Brolly's response. It is great that Peter Robinson did and
:22:38. > :22:50.there were times when he looked more statesman-like and yet lapsed back
:22:51. > :22:58.into it. As for Joe Brolly? If that represents the views of people in
:22:59. > :23:06.his community, he was right. That is it from us.