:00:36. > :00:39.Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics, where we're talking
:00:40. > :00:47.about the Europe-wide contest that really matters.
:00:48. > :00:49.about the Europe-wide contest that The European elections. There are
:00:50. > :00:53.local elections across England too on May 22nd. The party leaders are
:00:54. > :00:59.campaigning ahead of polling day. The results could be a pointer to
:01:00. > :01:02.the Big One, May 2015. We'll be speaking to the man in charge of
:01:03. > :01:06.Labour's election battle plan. Has the opposition really got its sights
:01:07. > :01:13.set on all-out victory in 2015? Or will it just be content with
:01:14. > :01:15.squeaking home? And you can't mention elections these days without
:01:16. > :01:18.talking about the impact of this man, Nigel Farage. I'll be asking
:01:19. > :01:23.Coming up in Northern Ireland: him if UKIP really
:01:24. > :01:25.Coming up in Northern Ireland: Another row between the first and
:01:26. > :01:29.deputy first ministers in of Giro fever.
:01:30. > :01:31.And election fever. We hear from the smaller parties hoping to make it
:01:32. > :01:31.big. smaller parties hoping to make it
:01:32. > :01:41.difference to the way you vote? And I'm joined by three journalists
:01:42. > :01:45.guaranteed to bring a touch of Eurovision glamour to your Sunday
:01:46. > :01:47.morning. With views more controversial than a bearded
:01:48. > :01:57.Austrian drag act and twice the dress sense, it's Nick Watt, Helen
:01:58. > :02:00.Lewis and Janan Ganesh. So you might have thought you've already heard
:02:01. > :02:04.David Cameron promise an in-out referendum on EU membership in 2017
:02:05. > :02:09.if he's still Prime Minister. Many times. Many, many times. Well he
:02:10. > :02:12.obviously doesn't think you've been listening, because he's been saying
:02:13. > :02:17.it again today. Here he is speaking to the BBC earlier. We will hold a
:02:18. > :02:21.referendum by the end of 2017. It will be a referendum on an in-out
:02:22. > :02:24.basis. Do we stay in a reformed European Union or do we leave? And
:02:25. > :02:27.I've said very clearly that whatever the outcome of the next election,
:02:28. > :02:30.and of course I want an overall majority and I'm hoping and
:02:31. > :02:34.believing I can win an overall majority, that people should be in
:02:35. > :02:43.no doubt I will not become Prime Minister unless I can guarantee that
:02:44. > :02:47.we will hold a referendum. Here's saying there that an overall
:02:48. > :02:52.majority there will definitely be a referendum. If these are the
:02:53. > :02:56.minority position, he won't form a new coalition unless they agree to a
:02:57. > :03:00.referendum, too. The Lib Dems a pulmonary agree to that. They
:03:01. > :03:04.probably will because the Prime ministers have a strong argument
:03:05. > :03:07.which is I gave you a referendum back in 2010 so the least I need is
:03:08. > :03:11.theirs and the Lib Dems are the only party who have stood in recent
:03:12. > :03:15.elections on a clear mandate to hold a referendum, so it is difficult for
:03:16. > :03:19.them to say no, there was interesting the interview he did
:03:20. > :03:23.earlier today. He named everything was going to ask for. The most
:03:24. > :03:27.controversial with him, as he said in his speech last year, he wants to
:03:28. > :03:33.take Britain out of the commitment to make the European Union and ever
:03:34. > :03:37.closer union. That is a very big ask, but the point is, he may well
:03:38. > :03:41.get it because the choice for the European Union now, France and
:03:42. > :03:46.Germany, is a clear wonderful do Britain in or out? Previously, it
:03:47. > :03:50.was can you put up with a British prime ministers being annoying? I
:03:51. > :03:54.think you'll find the answer is they are willing to pay a price but not
:03:55. > :03:58.any price to keep Britain in. In this scenario, Labour would have
:03:59. > :04:04.lost the election again because we are talking the slowly happen if Mr
:04:05. > :04:08.Cameron is the largest party or has an overall majority. Could you then
:04:09. > :04:12.see Labour deciding we had better go along with a referendum, too? I
:04:13. > :04:15.think that's unlikely because as I think that's unlikely because
:04:16. > :04:17.there's a huge upside for that for I think what's interesting is the idea
:04:18. > :04:22.he would for minority government. Would you get confidence and look at
:04:23. > :04:26.other options that might well happen with the way the arithmetic is going
:04:27. > :04:28.or is he going to hold out and say the only way I will be Prime
:04:29. > :04:33.Minister is in a majority Conservative government? No, the
:04:34. > :04:38.implication of his remarks was I wouldn't form a coalition government
:04:39. > :04:42.unless my coalition partners would also agree to vote for a referendum.
:04:43. > :04:47.He's basically talking about is negotiating strategy in those
:04:48. > :04:51.coalition talks. It's a red line and a huge opportunity for the Lib Dems,
:04:52. > :04:55.because they know David Cameron absolutely has to do, for accidental
:04:56. > :05:00.reasons, as a person who survives as Tory leader, to ask for that
:05:01. > :05:04.referendum, so they can ask anything they want in return and if I was
:05:05. > :05:07.Nick Clegg, I would work out in the next year one absolute colossal
:05:08. > :05:14.negotiating demand for those coalition talks. For a party around
:05:15. > :05:17.10% in the polls, they will do have the Prime Minister over a barrel on
:05:18. > :05:28.this one, assuming that coalition talks goes well. They could make
:05:29. > :05:32.Michael Gove Tbyte meeting. OK, we need to move on. So, the politicians
:05:33. > :05:35.are out and about on what used to be called the stump ahead of local and
:05:36. > :05:38.European elections in less than two weeks' time. But, without wanting to
:05:39. > :05:41.depress you on a damp Sunday morning, the party strategists are
:05:42. > :05:44.already hard at work on their campaign plans for the General
:05:45. > :05:47.Election next May. Yes, it's less than a year to go. They may have
:05:48. > :05:50.taken their time, but Labour's battleplan for 2015 is starting to
:05:51. > :05:53.take shape. As well as take promising to freeze your energy
:05:54. > :05:56.bills, and reintroduce the 50p rate of tax, Ed Miliband now says he
:05:57. > :06:01.wants to intervene in the housing market to keep rents down. There's
:06:02. > :06:07.even talk that the party leadership wants to bring more railway lines
:06:08. > :06:11.into public ownership. And Labour is gambling that its big push on the
:06:12. > :06:14.cost of living will see it through to the general election despite
:06:15. > :06:17.evidence that growth is firmly back. Labour's campaign chief Douglas
:06:18. > :06:25.Alexander hopes it all adds up to victory next May. But so far, the
:06:26. > :06:28.evidence is hitting home very thin. One survey today shows that 56% of
:06:29. > :06:33.people don't think Mr Miliband is up to the job of Prime Minister. As we
:06:34. > :06:36.head towards one of the least predictable general elections in 70
:06:37. > :06:41.years, has Labour got a message to win seats up and down the country?
:06:42. > :06:48.And Labour's election co-ordinator and Shadow Foreign Secretary,
:06:49. > :06:52.Douglas Alexander, joins me now. Welcome to Sunday Politics. A lot of
:06:53. > :06:55.these policies announced polar pretty well. By popular with the
:06:56. > :07:02.country. When you add them together, it's a move to the left and what
:07:03. > :07:04.would be wrong with that? I think is your packet suggests, the contours
:07:05. > :07:10.in the coming campaign are becoming clear. Our judgement is the defining
:07:11. > :07:13.issue of the year in British politics will be the widening gap
:07:14. > :07:17.between the wealth of the country and the finances of ordinary
:07:18. > :07:20.families. We believe it will be a cost of living election and we have
:07:21. > :07:23.been setting out our thinking in relation to energy prices and rent,
:07:24. > :07:27.but you will hear more from Labour Party in the coming months because
:07:28. > :07:31.we're now less than one year away from a decisive moment. If the
:07:32. > :07:36.leftish think tank suggested any of his policies in that Tony Blair
:07:37. > :07:43.years, you would have opposed them. Let's be clear, when not going for
:07:44. > :07:46.an interest but seeking to secure a majority for the only way to do that
:07:47. > :07:49.is not simply to appeal to your base, but to the centre ground. I
:07:50. > :07:54.believe we got genuine opportunities in the next year. You have the
:07:55. > :07:59.Conservatives in a struggle with UKIP on the right of politics. The
:08:00. > :08:02.Lib Dems 9% of trying to find their base, and there's a genuine
:08:03. > :08:07.opportunity in the next year for Labour to dominate the centre ground
:08:08. > :08:11.of politics and secure the majority Labour government we are planning
:08:12. > :08:21.for in the coming year. I notice you didn't deny you wouldn't have
:08:22. > :08:25.opposed. You say you have got an message for aspirational voters in
:08:26. > :08:28.the South. This is what John Denham said. He thinks you're talking too
:08:29. > :08:45.much to your core vote. He is right to recognise we took a
:08:46. > :08:48.terrible beating in 2010. 29%. If you look at what we've done in the
:08:49. > :08:53.last week, for example, the signature policy on rent Ed Miliband
:08:54. > :08:57.announced to launch the campaign, there's now more than 9 million
:08:58. > :09:01.people in the country in the private rented sector, more than 1 million
:09:02. > :09:04.families. Many of them are in the south-east. They are seeing
:09:05. > :09:09.circumstances where, suddenly, landlord will increase the rent and
:09:10. > :09:13.they put the pressure involved in schooling, health care facing the
:09:14. > :09:16.families, so it is important both in terms of policy and in terms of
:09:17. > :09:20.politics that we speak to the whole country, not simply to one part of
:09:21. > :09:28.it falls up what is the average rise in event last year? I don't know.
:09:29. > :09:35.Can you tell me? 1%. 1% not in real terms. I'm not sure what the problem
:09:36. > :09:39.is. It will happen to wages in last year, we are facing circumstances
:09:40. > :09:46.where people will be worse off, up to ?1600 off worse and frankly, if
:09:47. > :09:51.our opponents want to argue that the economy has healed and they deserve
:09:52. > :09:54.a victory lap, good luck to them because actually, what we are
:09:55. > :09:59.hearing from the Buddhist public, not just in the north and south, is
:10:00. > :10:02.not the cost living crisis is continuing and it affects families.
:10:03. > :10:07.There was nothing aspirational about your party election broadcast for
:10:08. > :10:11.the European elections. It looked like crude class war to money
:10:12. > :10:15.people. That's a bit of it. Bedroom tax. Isn't it going to look bad that
:10:16. > :10:21.two thirds of those affected are disabled? Who cares? They can't
:10:22. > :10:29.fight back. Shall be lay-offs and NHS nurses? The National Health
:10:30. > :10:39.Service? Oh yes. Mr Cameron? Who said that? Me. My gosh. The man has
:10:40. > :10:44.shrunk. He's actually shrunk. What shall we do with him? Can we hunt
:10:45. > :10:49.him? Nothing about Europe, Labour policy.
:10:50. > :10:51.him? Nothing about Europe, Labour result in negative campaigning and
:10:52. > :11:00.smear. You didn't tell you would be result in negative campaigning and
:11:01. > :11:06.to have most people reaching for the remote control these days are the
:11:07. > :11:08.words, there now follows a party but the broadcast. I make
:11:09. > :11:10.words, there now follows a party but the factory to be innovative in how
:11:11. > :11:14.we presented. It's factual. It the factory to be innovative in how
:11:15. > :11:18.policy -based critic of this government. And the Lib Dems role
:11:19. > :11:22.within it. So you're claiming it's factual to betray the camera and
:11:23. > :11:30.cabinet is not even knowing factual to betray the camera and
:11:31. > :11:34.NHS is, -- the Cameron Cabinet. They attack the disabled because they
:11:35. > :11:39.can't fight back. The Pinellas Tanner severely Prime Minister Sun
:11:40. > :11:45.and he was treated during a short life by the NHS. It's a fact many
:11:46. > :11:49.disabled people across the country including in my constituency have
:11:50. > :11:52.been directly affected by the bedroom tax. And ultimately, this
:11:53. > :11:56.Conservative led government, including the Lib Dems, will be held
:11:57. > :12:01.accountable by the politicians. You say that, the Prime Minister, who
:12:02. > :12:06.had a severely disabled son of. I you not ashamed about? I shadowed
:12:07. > :12:12.Iain Duncan Smith of five months also they don't have the excuses of
:12:13. > :12:15.seeing that saying nobody told them the consequences of the bedroom tax.
:12:16. > :12:20.They went into this with their eyes open. They knew about the hardship
:12:21. > :12:22.and difficulty. If they were one-bedroom properties available
:12:23. > :12:27.across the country for people to move into, their argument would be
:12:28. > :12:32.OK but they knew they were dealing with the most vulnerable people. Did
:12:33. > :12:38.you sign off that part of the broadcast? Of course I stand by the
:12:39. > :12:42.fact of it. I wish David Cameron and Iain Duncan Smith would apologise to
:12:43. > :12:45.the disabled people of the country and the poorest people for the
:12:46. > :12:51.effects of the bedroom tax. I hope we get that apology between now and
:12:52. > :12:57.election. As someone who thinks integrity is important in politics,
:12:58. > :13:00.not ashamed of this kind of thing? It's important we scrutinise the
:13:01. > :13:06.policies of this government as well as adding a positive agenda for
:13:07. > :13:11.change. You want that you won't promise this is the last time we'll
:13:12. > :13:14.see such a negative press campaign? I don't think it is negative or
:13:15. > :13:19.personal to scrutinise the government. So we'll get more of
:13:20. > :13:25.this? I'm less interested in the background of the cabinet than their
:13:26. > :13:29.views. You call the upper-class twits. It's for the British public
:13:30. > :13:33.to make a judgement in terms of the British... That's how you depicted
:13:34. > :13:40.them. We are held in accountable for the bedroom tax, the NHS, taxation,
:13:41. > :13:43.and our record they have to defend. One reason are so fearful in this
:13:44. > :13:48.election is actually because they know they have a poor record. Let's
:13:49. > :13:55.look at other part of the election campaign. This poster. Particularly
:13:56. > :14:02.digitally doing the rounds. On that shopping basket, can you tell us
:14:03. > :14:05.which items take the full 20% VAT? It's representative of household
:14:06. > :14:09.shopping, which includes items like cleaning products, and we know that
:14:10. > :14:25.food is not that trouble. People don't go to the supermarket and say
:14:26. > :14:29.this is -- vatable. So you are denying that ?450 extra is being
:14:30. > :14:37.paid? Yes, where'd you get that figure? For an average family to pay
:14:38. > :14:45.?450 a year extra VAT, they would have to spend ?21,600 a year on
:14:46. > :14:49.vatable products at 20%. The average take-home pay is only 21,009. They
:14:50. > :14:54.have got to spend on all sorts of things which are zero VAT. So in
:14:55. > :15:01.addition to the items, has a range of products people face in terms of
:15:02. > :15:08.VAT. How could an average family of ?21,000 a year spent 21,006 and the
:15:09. > :15:15.pound a year on 20% vatable items? It's not an annual figure, is it? So
:15:16. > :15:21.what is it then? If it's an annual, what is it? The increased VAT in
:15:22. > :15:27.this parliament is calculated over the course of a Parliament. For the
:15:28. > :15:33.whole of the Parliament? And you're illustrated this with a shopping
:15:34. > :15:37.basket which almost has no VAT on it at all? People will be buying a
:15:38. > :15:43.weekly shop in the course of this Parliament every week. Did you sign
:15:44. > :15:47.off on this as well? Of course. It didn't dawn on you you're putting
:15:48. > :15:52.things on it which have no VAT? If you want to argue some people go to
:15:53. > :16:01.the shops and say these are vatable or not, I disagree. Even your rent
:16:02. > :16:04.cap announcement went wrong. You're working on the rent rises and it
:16:05. > :16:14.turns out it wasn't. It was a post your policy. It is the exception
:16:15. > :16:18.rather than the rule to have the position we have at the moment. In
:16:19. > :16:22.Northern Ireland we have seen the continued rise in terms of the
:16:23. > :16:28.rented sector but there is a widespread recognition that for
:16:29. > :16:34.those people in the rented sector, change is necessary. Are you
:16:35. > :16:44.coordinating this campaign? It seems accident prone. This is a party that
:16:45. > :16:48.has set the agenda more effectively than a Conservative party that said
:16:49. > :16:56.when David Cameron was elected he wasn't going to bang on about
:16:57. > :17:03.Europe. The day after the election we expect the Conservative party to
:17:04. > :17:07.be engulfed in crisis. I'm proud of what we talk about and I think there
:17:08. > :17:12.is a clear contrast about a party talking about issues people care
:17:13. > :17:16.about, and a Conservative party talking about exclusively a
:17:17. > :17:24.referendum. Are you in charge of the campaign? I am coordinating the
:17:25. > :17:30.campaign is, yes. The expensive election guru you have hired, has he
:17:31. > :17:35.been involved in any of this? We have started our discussions with
:17:36. > :17:39.him. You are going to have to brief him about British politics because
:17:40. > :17:46.he doesn't know anything about it. I make no apology for hiring him. He
:17:47. > :17:51.has a lot of experience in winning tight elections and that is what we
:17:52. > :17:57.are expecting. If you are expecting us to say, they have passed and we
:17:58. > :18:04.have to hold them accountable, then I am sorry but we have a campaign
:18:05. > :18:12.that holds the Government and the Conservatives to account for what I
:18:13. > :18:18.think is a very hopeless record in government. Thank you.
:18:19. > :18:21.He leads a party with zero MPs but his media presence is huge. He's had
:18:22. > :18:24.an expenses scandal, but the public didn't seem to mind. He's got a
:18:25. > :18:27.privileged background but he's seen as an anti-establishment champion.
:18:28. > :18:29.Nothing seems to stick to him, not even eggs. I speak
:18:30. > :18:31.Nothing seems to stick to him, not Nigel Farage. We'll talk to him in a
:18:32. > :18:34.moment, but first Giles has been Nigel Farage. We'll talk to him in a
:18:35. > :18:36.on the campaign trail ahead of elections that could make or break
:18:37. > :18:40.the UKIP leader. Nigel Farage likes a stage, and at
:18:41. > :18:44.this stage of the Euro and local election campaign he is, like his
:18:45. > :18:48.party, in buoyant mood. They feel they are on the verge of what they
:18:49. > :18:53.see as causing an earthquake in British politics. Today Nigel is
:18:54. > :19:03.filling thousands seat venues and bigger. Not that there's much sign
:19:04. > :19:05.of that at this press launch. But it's a threat with serious money
:19:06. > :19:08.behind it, that they believe the media and the political elite just
:19:09. > :19:11.haven't realised yet, much less learned how to counter it. Not that
:19:12. > :19:14.it's all been plain sailing. Offensive comments from some
:19:15. > :19:17.candidates has not only seen UKIP labelled as racist, but necessitated
:19:18. > :19:25.a rally by the party to visibly and verbally challenge that. The
:19:26. > :19:27.offensive idiotic statements made by this handful of people have been
:19:28. > :19:32.lifted up and presented to the great British public as if they represent
:19:33. > :19:35.the view of this party, which they do not. They never have and they
:19:36. > :19:51.never will. APPLAUSE I don't care what you call us, but
:19:52. > :20:02.from this moment on, please do not call must trust a racist party. We
:20:03. > :20:05.are not a racist party. The need to say that is not just
:20:06. > :20:08.about the European and local elections even at that campaign
:20:09. > :20:10.launch it's clear UKIP's leader has set his sights firmly on the
:20:11. > :20:12.ultimate prize. I come from the south of England and I would not
:20:13. > :20:15.want south of England and I would not
:20:16. > :20:18.heading to the north, north Norfolk or whatever it will be. I
:20:19. > :20:20.heading to the north, north Norfolk my mind up and stand in the
:20:21. > :20:26.heading to the north, north Norfolk election for somewhere in Kent, East
:20:27. > :20:30.Sussex, Hampshire, somewhere in my home patch. Back at UKIP HQ they are
:20:31. > :20:40.still drilling down how the last fortnight of campaigning should go.
:20:41. > :20:43.They aren't taking any chances, and one imagines having offices above
:20:44. > :20:46.those of Max Clifford is a reminder how fragile built reputations can be
:20:47. > :20:49.of the bubble bursting. They want their reputation to be built on
:20:50. > :20:52.votes and they know anything but significant success on May 22nd and
:20:53. > :21:00.some seats in Westminster in 2015 isn't going to be good enough. And
:21:01. > :21:03.after that, having sold yourselves as the honest outsiders, that stance
:21:04. > :21:06.is harder to maintain once your people are on the inside. And subtle
:21:07. > :21:12.changes from the past are already noticeable. The ordinary man of the
:21:13. > :21:15.people stance is still working. Characteristically outside a pub,
:21:16. > :21:21.Nigel Farage is glad handed by a customer. Two weeks to go, let's
:21:22. > :21:27.cause an upset. Wouldn't that be great? The only sign that such an
:21:28. > :21:38.interaction is different now is the ever presence of bodyguards who
:21:39. > :21:41.shadow his every move. Over lunch ahead of Question Time, a radio
:21:42. > :21:45.appearance, and then off to Scotland, I ask him if some of those
:21:46. > :21:49.minded to vote UKIP who see him as a man they'd be comfortable having a
:21:50. > :21:51.drink with are the sort of people he'd be entirely comfortable sitting
:21:52. > :21:53.down with. Every political party attracts support from across the
:21:54. > :22:02.spectrum and there will be some magnificent people who vote for us
:22:03. > :22:07.and some ne'er-do-wells. The one common thing about UKIP voters is
:22:08. > :22:11.that they are often not very political. And it's that people's
:22:12. > :22:13.army that if UKIP can get to a polling booth might just create that
:22:14. > :22:21.earthquake they want. Nigel Farage joins me now. When you
:22:22. > :22:24.decided not to stand at the new work by election coming said if you lost
:22:25. > :22:44.it that the bubble would have burst. What did you mean by that? I
:22:45. > :22:50.was asked at seven 20p -- at 7:21pm if I would stand, I have decided by
:22:51. > :22:57.the next morning that I would not. I didn't know he was going to resign.
:22:58. > :23:00.You claim only a handful of UKIP candidates have ever said things
:23:01. > :23:09.that are either stupid or offensive, I'm right on that, yes? 0.1%, I'd
:23:10. > :23:12.rather it was non-. But why have you chosen a candidate to fight this
:23:13. > :23:19.by-election that has said many things most people would regard as
:23:20. > :23:24.stupid or offensive? Roger is fighting this for us, someone of 70
:23:25. > :23:29.years of age who grew up with a strong Christian Bible background,
:23:30. > :23:33.in an age when homosexuality was imprisonable. He had a certain set
:23:34. > :23:37.of views which he maintained for many years which he now says he
:23:38. > :23:43.accepts the world has moved on and he is relaxed about it. The comments
:23:44. > :23:50.about homosexuality are not from the dark ages, they are from two or
:23:51. > :23:56.three years ago. From when he was a Conservative, yes, so will you be
:23:57. > :24:00.asking David Cameron that question? I have never seen a single comment
:24:01. > :24:05.from Roger that would be deemed to be offensive. Do you regard his
:24:06. > :24:11.comments on homosexuality as offensive? When he grew up,
:24:12. > :24:20.homosexuality was illegal in this country. But this was in 2012 but he
:24:21. > :24:30.said that. Most people have his age still feel uncomfortable about it --
:24:31. > :24:38.of his age. In 2012 he said, if two men can be married, why not three,
:24:39. > :24:42.why not a commune. Many people in this country are disconcerted by the
:24:43. > :24:45.change in the meaning of marriage and in a tolerant society we
:24:46. > :24:51.understand that some people have different views. But he has changed
:24:52. > :25:02.his views now in only two years? He says he is more relaxed about it.
:25:03. > :25:06.Was he your candidate? He is a first-class campaigner who has had
:25:07. > :25:11.30 years in industry, he served in the European Parliament, he is a
:25:12. > :25:15.good candidate. This morning's papers suggest you are about to
:25:16. > :25:21.select Victoria Ayling for Grimsby, but she is on camera saying that, of
:25:22. > :25:25.immigrants, I just want to send a lot back. This is all very
:25:26. > :25:29.interesting, and we can talk about it, all we could talk about the fact
:25:30. > :25:34.that in 12 days we have a European election and every voter across the
:25:35. > :25:40.UK can vote on it and it is really interesting. Are you happy to pick a
:25:41. > :25:48.candidate that says of immigrants, I just want to send a lot back? I have
:25:49. > :25:55.seen the tape, it is a complete misquote and she says it in the
:25:56. > :26:01.context of illegal immigrants. I have seen the full quote and in the
:26:02. > :26:05.context it is not about illegal immigrants. Let's come onto the
:26:06. > :26:10.European campaign, you have used a company that employs Eastern
:26:11. > :26:14.European is to deliver leaflets in London and the Home Counties. Have
:26:15. > :26:20.we? I'm told that in Croydon one branch might have done that. Have
:26:21. > :26:25.you found some indigenous Brits to deliver leaflets in Europe? We have
:26:26. > :26:29.thousands joining the party every month and they are not all
:26:30. > :26:35.indigenous because what is interesting is that in today's
:26:36. > :26:47.opinion polls, UKIP is above the Lib Dems and the Conservatives amongst
:26:48. > :27:01.the indigenous voting. We have not agreed a manifesto for
:27:02. > :27:09.the general election, we will do over the course of the summer. This
:27:10. > :27:13.is in your local election. We are having local elections in some part
:27:14. > :27:16.of the country but we are fighting a European election. It is impossible
:27:17. > :27:23.with the British media to have an intelligent debate on the European
:27:24. > :27:28.question. But as I say, we are also fighting the local elections too.
:27:29. > :27:33.You have promised these tax cuts, how much will they cost? I have met
:27:34. > :27:38.-- read the local election manifesto and it doesn't make those promises.
:27:39. > :27:43.We do talk about local services, we do talk about the need to keep
:27:44. > :27:51.council tax down but we don't talk about income tax. Absolutely not. In
:27:52. > :27:57.local election campaigning you say you would restore cuts to policing,
:27:58. > :28:05.double prison places, restore cuts to front line NHS, spend more on
:28:06. > :28:09.roads, how much would that cost? You are obviously reading different
:28:10. > :28:13.documents to me. We are voting for local councillors in district
:28:14. > :28:20.councils who have got little local budgets. Every party in a manifesto
:28:21. > :28:26.puts his aspirations in it. Have you read it? Of course I have, cover to
:28:27. > :28:32.cover, which is why I'm saying you are misquoting it. By the way, on
:28:33. > :28:39.the bubble bursting, you told that to Norman Smith of the BBC. 75% of
:28:40. > :28:44.British laws are now made in the European Union. Now AstraZeneca is
:28:45. > :28:49.potentially going to be taken over by Pfizer. The BBC is refusing to
:28:50. > :28:53.show the public that that decision cannot be taken here but by an
:28:54. > :29:01.elected European commissioner, and we sit and argue about what is in or
:29:02. > :29:11.not in the local election manifesto. It is my job, but let me come on to
:29:12. > :29:19.AstraZeneca. Is it your view that a British government should stop the
:29:20. > :29:28.takeover of AstraZeneca? It cannot. Can we please get this clear. I sat
:29:29. > :29:34.next to Chuka Umunna the other day at question time and he said what
:29:35. > :29:37.could and couldn't be done. He said I am being studiously neutral, and
:29:38. > :29:45.the reason is we don't have this power. That is what the European
:29:46. > :29:57.elections is about. Should France have the takeover of the food
:29:58. > :30:05.company Danan? We seem to do things to the Nth degree and nobody else
:30:06. > :30:10.does, perhaps because we have this culture and we obey it. In your
:30:11. > :30:18.view, you don't think Pfizer should be able to take over AstraZeneca?
:30:19. > :30:23.There is some good science within AstraZeneca which is in danger of
:30:24. > :30:29.being asset stripped and lost. Because it is run by a Swede and a
:30:30. > :30:35.Frenchman and most of its employees are overseas. I understand that but
:30:36. > :30:38.there are still some good science being produced here. What did you
:30:39. > :30:43.think of the Prime Minister saying he would not form a government after
:30:44. > :30:52.the election unless he was able to have a referendum in 2017? I sat
:30:53. > :30:56.here talking to you and you said to me that David Cameron had given a
:30:57. > :30:59.cast-iron guarantee that if David Cameron becomes Prime Minister he
:31:00. > :31:05.will have a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, but he didn't deliver on
:31:06. > :31:09.that. He knows that people struggle to believe the renegotiation is
:31:10. > :31:14.worth a row of beans. He is saying he will not form a government unless
:31:15. > :31:18.he can go forward with the referendum. I know he is desperately
:31:19. > :31:21.trying to pretend to be Eurosceptic whilst at the same time saying he
:31:22. > :31:27.will campaign for Britain to remain in. In a sense, that is what this
:31:28. > :31:30.election is about. We have three traditional parties, all of whom
:31:31. > :31:34.passionately believe in the continued membership of the European
:31:35. > :31:38.Union and we have UKIP saying we want trade and cooperation but there
:31:39. > :31:46.is a bigger and better world out there. You are now travelling with I
:31:47. > :31:53.think four bodyguards, has this affected you and your family life? I
:31:54. > :31:57.can't stand it. I've always wondered about the place and on my own thing.
:31:58. > :32:02.Sadly we have a couple of organisations out there headed up by
:32:03. > :32:05.senior Labour Party figures who purport to be against fascism and
:32:06. > :32:10.extremism, who received funding from the Department of communities, from
:32:11. > :32:13.the trade unions, who have acted in a violent wait more than once. You
:32:14. > :32:20.are saying the Labour Party is behind the threats? No, I said a
:32:21. > :32:23.taxpayer funded, trade union funded and headed by senior Labour Party
:32:24. > :32:27.figures, and I'm happy for them to come to my meetings and have an
:32:28. > :32:30.itinerant with me, but it's not so much fun when there are banging you
:32:31. > :32:36.over the head. I is still keen to be an MP? Yes, what UKIP will then do
:32:37. > :32:41.is target before the general election next year for the one life
:32:42. > :32:46.be easier if you just went to the Lords? That's the last thing I want
:32:47. > :32:52.to do. There's an awful lot to do. Most of all, I will not rest until
:32:53. > :32:54.we are free from political union and government from Brussels. Nigel
:32:55. > :32:55.Farage, thank you for being with us. It's just gone 11.30am. You're
:32:56. > :33:12.watching the Sunday Politics. We say Hello and welcome to Sunday Politics
:33:13. > :33:16.in Northern Ireland. Stormont may have turned pink for
:33:17. > :33:19.the Giro, but should we have red faces as another row erupts between
:33:20. > :33:22.the First and Deputy First Ministers when our Italian guests are in town?
:33:23. > :33:25.So is it electioneering, or just another example of how difficult
:33:26. > :33:33.their working relationship has, in fact, become? It's a matter of
:33:34. > :33:38.recognising that we do face serious challenges. I don't think dragging
:33:39. > :33:40.those controversial issues to enabling like this is the right
:33:41. > :33:44.thing to do. And as we countdown to Election Day,
:33:45. > :33:46.we hear the pitch from four of the smaller parties aiming big on May
:33:47. > :33:50.22nd. And joining me this week to discuss
:33:51. > :33:52.all of the above in this slightly longer programme are the former
:33:53. > :33:58.Victims' Commissioner, Patricia McBride, and News Letter's political
:33:59. > :34:01.correspondent, Sam McBride. They're usually on their best
:34:02. > :34:05.behaviour when Northern Ireland finds itself hosting a major event,
:34:06. > :34:08.but with the eyes of the world on us for the opening of the Giro
:34:09. > :34:11.d'Italia, a new row has erupted between the first and deputy first
:34:12. > :34:14.ministers. Martin McGuinness accused Peter Robinson of cowardice and of
:34:15. > :34:19.showing no leadership in east Belfast. The DUP has described the
:34:20. > :34:22.comments as outrageous. So is it just electioneering, or are the two
:34:23. > :34:27.men really struggling to hold their working relationship together? Some
:34:28. > :34:30.are asking how much longer they can continue to grin and bear it. Here's
:34:31. > :34:33.how they handled a joint interview just hours after Martin McGuinness
:34:34. > :34:41.hit out at his partner in government. A lot of things have
:34:42. > :34:46.been said over the course of the last ten days. Tonight, this is
:34:47. > :34:51.about the Giro. They're been plenty of opportunities for people to say
:34:52. > :34:55.what they want, in terms of their view. And that has been the same
:34:56. > :35:00.opportunity for me. I'm not going to dwell on that tonight, we've had our
:35:01. > :35:06.say. It is a matter of recognising we face serious challenges. I think
:35:07. > :35:14.everybody recognises what tonight is about. It's a showcase event for the
:35:15. > :35:18.Giro. I don't think dragging those controversial issues to an evening
:35:19. > :35:21.like this is the right thing to do. We are agreed on many things. Of
:35:22. > :35:25.course there are many things we disagree on, but we agree on having
:35:26. > :35:29.major events, we agree on having investment and we will continue to
:35:30. > :35:32.push those issues. Let's see what my guests of the day
:35:33. > :35:36.make of that. Joining me are Patricia McBride and Sam McBride. No
:35:37. > :35:39.relation! Sam McBride - Mike Nesbitt says it's
:35:40. > :35:47.an example of dysfunctionality and mixed messages at the heart of
:35:48. > :35:50.government. Is he right? Certainly a large element of faster burst,
:35:51. > :35:55.because it's becoming so common to lurch from Peter Robinson and Martin
:35:56. > :36:01.McGuinness to laughing together and joking together to having these
:36:02. > :36:07.extraordinary outburst against each other. There is always an element of
:36:08. > :36:10.tension in any coalition government, particularly here, where
:36:11. > :36:15.the two leaders are so radically different in their outlook, but it
:36:16. > :36:19.does seem that in the past year things have really gotten a lot
:36:20. > :36:24.worse and the issue of welfare reform has recently reignited this.
:36:25. > :36:39.I don't think it is just about Alex nearing. -- electioneering. I think
:36:40. > :36:47.there is that element of discomfort in the relationship, one that did
:36:48. > :36:54.not exist previously. There is certainly a fear within the DUP of
:36:55. > :36:57.having to cosy relationship. That is something they were criticised in
:36:58. > :37:05.the past and they will be wary of that, especially coming up to an
:37:06. > :37:09.election. The difficulties for the Coalition Government here are that
:37:10. > :37:10.they must work together. It is mandatory. So they are going to
:37:11. > :37:15.they must work together. It is to get over it and find ways of
:37:16. > :37:18.being civil to each other to effect positive change.
:37:19. > :37:22.In the midst of this row about lack positive change.
:37:23. > :37:23.of leadership, it's emerged that the DUP was being entertained to drinks
:37:24. > :37:27.with the PM at Number Ten. DUP was being entertained to drinks
:37:28. > :37:30.Guardian ran the story and here's the paper's political editor, Nick
:37:31. > :37:36.Watt, with his thoughts on what's going on... The point about this
:37:37. > :37:41.meeting, this reception, was that the DUP felt it was quite lavish, he
:37:42. > :37:46.was wooing them, the Prime Minister was having an eye to what you might
:37:47. > :37:50.need in a year's time. He might need their help if there is another hung
:37:51. > :37:54.parliament. Sinn Fein were complaining at the time that they've
:37:55. > :37:58.not had this sort of treatment. Sinn Fein would not want to have drinks
:37:59. > :38:02.in the Downing Street garden, but Martin McGuinness has said he would
:38:03. > :38:05.like the Prime Minister to meet Sinn Fein as a party because they have
:38:06. > :38:12.their concerns they would like to raise. Obviously, Sinn Fein may have
:38:13. > :38:15.five MPs but they don't take their seats at Westminster said they
:38:16. > :38:21.wouldn't be much use in a hung Parliament. The DUP may not be
:38:22. > :38:27.looking for political concessions. I think they will be looking for
:38:28. > :38:31.cash, funding for pet projects and obviously under the new dispensation
:38:32. > :38:34.in Northern Ireland the office of First Minister and Deputy First
:38:35. > :38:41.Minister are joint, everything has to go together. So if the DUP is
:38:42. > :38:45.able to wrangle extra cash out of London for Northern Ireland, we
:38:46. > :38:54.probably find it would have to be distributed reasonably fairly. Sam,
:38:55. > :39:04.do you think there is something significant going on? The DUP were
:39:05. > :39:10.fierce opponents and critics of the joint conservative oldster project a
:39:11. > :39:15.few years ago. That has completely gone away really now and we've seen
:39:16. > :39:21.very small incremental steps. There was an interesting piece online, on
:39:22. > :39:24.a grassroots conservative website where one backbencher was making an
:39:25. > :39:30.argument for the sort of arrangement a few weeks ago. Patricia,
:39:31. > :39:38.politicians do deals, they have private drinks. Is Sinn Fein right
:39:39. > :39:45.to feel marginalised's well, the Unionist party are going to feel
:39:46. > :39:53.that they are cosying up. I think it's highly inappropriate that such
:39:54. > :40:00.a sensitive issue as victims was on at -- the agenda at a garden party.
:40:01. > :40:04.Certainly what Nick was saying, it will be interesting to see what pet
:40:05. > :40:07.projects the DUP is looking for funding for if they are going to
:40:08. > :40:13.support a Conservative government in the next election. Interesting to
:40:14. > :40:22.your thoughts. We will speak to you both more later.
:40:23. > :40:26.It's taken Stormont years to agree on how many there will be, months to
:40:27. > :40:30.debate what powers they will or won't have, and on May 22nd you'll
:40:31. > :40:33.get the chance to decide who your representatives will be on one of
:40:34. > :40:36.eleven new super councils. The re-organisation of local government
:40:37. > :40:39.from 26 to 11 councils means Stormont is giving away some of its
:40:40. > :40:42.powers to the new local authorities. From next April they'll have
:40:43. > :40:44.responsibility for urban regeneration, economic development
:40:45. > :40:52.and - most significantly - planning. Chris Page reports.
:40:53. > :40:57.Spring is here, so it's time for pruning, cutting back councils, that
:40:58. > :41:01.is. There are currently 26 local authorities, but they are being
:41:02. > :41:05.trained to 11. But every gardener knows that pruning can stimulate
:41:06. > :41:09.growth, and the seeds have been sown for a new season in local
:41:10. > :41:14.government. Councils already have responsibility for all sorts of
:41:15. > :41:18.things. For example, in this garden, council staff lovingly tend
:41:19. > :41:25.to the plants and flowers every day. But the new local authorities will
:41:26. > :41:28.take on a whole range of new powers. The new responsibilities include on
:41:29. > :41:33.street parking, local economic development and tourism. Tied up
:41:34. > :41:39.with all that, there is another very important change. By far the most
:41:40. > :41:43.powerful is a range of planning powers, things the environment
:41:44. > :41:50.Department has been doing. Things like making new plans for the local
:41:51. > :41:55.areas, deciding most planning applications, apart from the most
:41:56. > :41:59.serious, and things like planning enforcement as well. So when people
:42:00. > :42:06.don't follow the rules of planning, the councils are going to step in.
:42:07. > :42:12.This planning consultant thinks the transfer of powers to local governor
:42:13. > :42:15.is a good move. It's a great thing. The 40 odd years we've had a
:42:16. > :42:21.centralised planning body taking decisions on local planning issues
:42:22. > :42:25.and local people have had an input, but not as much as there is likely
:42:26. > :42:30.to be with the council is taking the decisions. Local representatives
:42:31. > :42:36.reflecting properly what local people want for their area. The
:42:37. > :42:39.changes may have big implications for entrepreneurs, but the
:42:40. > :42:42.organisation which represents independent retailers says people
:42:43. > :42:48.need to recognise the significance of what is happening. It is crucial
:42:49. > :43:00.the private sector in gauges and build relationships -- in gauges and
:43:01. > :43:05.builds relationships with these councils. I think it is a good
:43:06. > :43:08.thing. They are setting an ambitious timetable and we need to ensure that
:43:09. > :43:14.they hit the ground running and start delivering. And businesses may
:43:15. > :43:20.regard as -- development in urban areas as one sign. The rise in
:43:21. > :43:24.online shopping and the recession has hit the high street hard. The
:43:25. > :43:29.generating town centres will be a major challenge for the new
:43:30. > :43:32.councils. Here, several million pounds are being spent on
:43:33. > :43:35.improvement works. Local entrepreneurs say the new councils'
:43:36. > :43:41.extra powers should make a positive difference. I think the fact that
:43:42. > :43:47.they are responsible for new generation in general means we can
:43:48. > :43:51.actively work towards bringing more living into the city centre, more
:43:52. > :43:56.office accommodation to increase the footfall in the city centre. So
:43:57. > :44:02.there is a general package there that the council will be more in
:44:03. > :44:06.control of. Outside towns and cities, planning is no less of an
:44:07. > :44:11.issue. Farmers say they want councils to make consistent
:44:12. > :44:16.decisions. I think what we want to see is that these larger super
:44:17. > :44:21.councils do still have a local knowledge of what is required in
:44:22. > :44:29.local areas. Certainly, still trying to retain that local aspect to
:44:30. > :44:33.planning is going to be vitally important. I think the one thing
:44:34. > :44:40.that stands out all the time is consistency in their decisions.
:44:41. > :44:43.There will be challenges and choices ahead for councillors. The new local
:44:44. > :44:47.authorities will take root after the elections. Planning can
:44:48. > :44:49.authorities will take root after the issue, and whether the councils
:44:50. > :44:52.blossom may depend on how well they handle it.
:44:53. > :44:55.blossom may depend on how well they With me now to discuss their vision
:44:56. > :44:58.for the new local political landscape are David McNarry from
:44:59. > :45:03.UKIP, Professor John Barry from the Green Party, Richard Cairns from the
:45:04. > :45:04.TUV and Basil McCrea from NI21. Where's the evidence that the new
:45:05. > :45:07.councils will have Where's the evidence that the new
:45:08. > :45:17.deal with controversial planning issues? Let me say first of all we
:45:18. > :45:23.are talking about local government, and thank goodness. It is a big
:45:24. > :45:29.thing and I wish all the candidates luck. It is a big thing for them to
:45:30. > :45:33.but their names forward. We are talking about super-sized councils.
:45:34. > :45:37.This is something new. They are going to be an amalgamation of
:45:38. > :45:47.previous old councils. I welcome it could take up to ten years for these
:45:48. > :45:51.councils to start delivering. In terms of planning issues, these are
:45:52. > :45:56.massive issues being handed to them. One instance would be, quite
:45:57. > :46:02.existing 26 councils and asked them existing 26 councils and asked them
:46:03. > :46:07.turbines. None of them existing 26 councils and asked them
:46:08. > :46:12.policy. So now we're handing this over to super councils, hopefully
:46:13. > :46:22.they will develop policies. So we're going to have ten years of bad
:46:23. > :46:33.policy-making's -- policy-making? Well, we have a different
:46:34. > :46:37.identities. We want to introduce local referendums because we want
:46:38. > :46:41.the people to actually have a voice in the local councils, particularly
:46:42. > :46:48.viz super councils, where the amalgamations are going to be so
:46:49. > :46:57.stretched you will be inviting people from one local area to
:46:58. > :47:04.another local area. If David is right, that could be a disaster for
:47:05. > :47:08.the Green Party. Could he be right? The reality is, this shift is really
:47:09. > :47:16.about the founding of local government. In terms of planning, we
:47:17. > :47:20.want community planning, we want people to have a say in the services
:47:21. > :47:27.and facilities they want. And also transparency in politics. Argue is
:47:28. > :47:35.we need a lot more transparently, including budgeting. We want to
:47:36. > :47:38.involve more citizens in how we spend the money councils have. That
:47:39. > :47:48.is an idea from Newcastle and Durham. It is sustainable
:47:49. > :47:53.development. Had we encouraged local town centre regeneration and not
:47:54. > :48:08.unsustainable out-of-town shopping centres... Which town centre? If the
:48:09. > :48:12.council wants to put money into Bangor, people need to say that is
:48:13. > :48:16.not fair. That is where I'm saying this transition is going to take
:48:17. > :48:24.quite a while. Town development, you know, we need to have the villages
:48:25. > :48:30.developed, let alone the towns! Foreign investment is not the right
:48:31. > :48:35.way and out-of-town shopping centres... The rates are going to go
:48:36. > :48:44.up and the people are really going to be in a dilemma. Do you think
:48:45. > :48:47.these new councils will have the capacity to deal with this new
:48:48. > :48:53.responsibility? It is very important for each and every of us. It is
:48:54. > :48:58.indeed and I hope the new councils will have the capacity and we will
:48:59. > :49:07.work together to represent our local communities. One thing I would like
:49:08. > :49:19.to say about standing for council from a new party is I am Catholic, I
:49:20. > :49:22.am black, I come from so many different parts of Northern Ireland
:49:23. > :49:27.that I think one thing that the councils need to come up with is
:49:28. > :49:33.what NI21 is about, and that is a united identity. Once we have that,
:49:34. > :49:40.something we can all identify with, we can work together. That is the
:49:41. > :49:44.big political picture, but what about the detail on the ground? Do
:49:45. > :49:48.you have the experience and knowledge to deal with things like
:49:49. > :49:51.planning legislation, economic generation, tourism? That is
:49:52. > :49:57.actually what people want to hear when they are deciding who to vote
:49:58. > :50:04.for. Yes, I do think we have the knowledge. These are the issues that
:50:05. > :50:09.are key to people, but every party, the new powers are going to be new
:50:10. > :50:15.to everybody. So, yes, we are new, but it is a new thing for everybody,
:50:16. > :50:21.so it is probably the best time for NI21 to be coming into council. Does
:50:22. > :50:27.it make sense for these new super councils to be given added planning
:50:28. > :50:35.responsibilities? I think we will only know that in time. Have you got
:50:36. > :50:42.reservations it might not be a good idea? As has already been mentioned,
:50:43. > :50:48.there is a link between big developments and big parties.
:50:49. > :50:52.Transparency issues, accountability, all that needs to be
:50:53. > :51:01.done in detail when it comes to the councils. They need a level of
:51:02. > :51:07.expertise. Have you got it? In terms of planning applications, I do a lot
:51:08. > :51:14.about myself so I know beings and outs. But there is more to learn, I
:51:15. > :51:18.think everybody as to say that. In terms of planning itself, there
:51:19. > :51:23.needs to be a joined up approach from council to Council, a
:51:24. > :51:27.consistent policy. And it needs to tie in with economic development.
:51:28. > :51:31.We've talked about town regeneration, yes, there is a big
:51:32. > :51:43.threat from out-of-town shopping. How do you combat that? There are
:51:44. > :51:51.many derelict town centres. Putting up artwork in empty shops looks nice
:51:52. > :51:55.but it is not fighting the problem. People need to be incentivised to go
:51:56. > :52:01.into local areas. The opportunity with this reform is innovation at a
:52:02. > :52:12.local level. What about having a municipal bond to raise funds in
:52:13. > :52:15.terms of innovative projects? Do you think there is a possibility that
:52:16. > :52:19.the new councils, when they get up and running and have to deal with
:52:20. > :52:24.big issues like planning, tourism and economic development, that they
:52:25. > :52:32.could be bedevilled by some of the day drudgery of politics in Northern
:52:33. > :52:37.Ireland? Like, for example, flags? That is why I wanted to start the
:52:38. > :52:41.idea of local referendums. Why not have a local referendum to decide
:52:42. > :52:46.whether the council will or will not fly a flag. I think all politics are
:52:47. > :52:54.local and that gets over a lot of hoops. It will be difficult enough
:52:55. > :53:06.to get people to vote on May the 22nd, never mind another poll! Well,
:53:07. > :53:11.going into Belfast council, they blighted the whole flag issue. What
:53:12. > :53:19.is NI21 going to do when the flag issue comes up in Belfast city? I
:53:20. > :53:22.don't want to talk about that specifically. Looking at the bigger
:53:23. > :53:31.picture, what is NI21 as a party going to do about the flag issue
:53:32. > :53:38.across the 11 new super councils? We would recommend flying flags on
:53:39. > :53:41.designated days, we would recommend handing the flags debate away from
:53:42. > :53:52.local councils and taking it back to an outside body. That's not local
:53:53. > :54:04.democracy. You should have confidence in people to decide...
:54:05. > :54:07.You just talked about a referendum. The big party political grab on a
:54:08. > :54:12.lot of these issues as to be taken away from them. I'm talking about
:54:13. > :54:17.local democracy, I'm saying, here is the controversial issue. There are
:54:18. > :54:22.more important issues than flags, to be fair, but here's one issue. Let
:54:23. > :54:26.the people in our locality decide. Why should it be that we want to fly
:54:27. > :54:33.the flag in this area, but because of the decision made somewhere we
:54:34. > :54:39.can't? What do you think the solution is? There was a prime
:54:40. > :54:44.opportunity to deal with it when the government bill was going through
:54:45. > :54:48.passage in the assembly. Parties had a prime opportunity to try to deal
:54:49. > :54:52.with that before going through. At the minute, this is being passed to
:54:53. > :54:57.each council to deal with. There could have been a wide-ranging
:54:58. > :55:02.approach. I would say our policy is very simple. It is Belfast has
:55:03. > :55:07.special status as the capital city of Northern Ireland and we believe
:55:08. > :55:11.the flag should fly three and the 65 days a year in that City Hall.
:55:12. > :55:18.Outside a Belfast, we believe in a policy called designated days plus.
:55:19. > :55:22.If you could have one part of the council previously not wanting to
:55:23. > :55:32.did fly the flag and the other part wanting to fly the flag, the two are
:55:33. > :55:37.not wanting to meet. There are obviously a lot of emotions. If you
:55:38. > :55:42.have a designated days policy across Northern Ireland, each council can
:55:43. > :55:47.vote to increase it above that. They cannot have less than the designated
:55:48. > :55:58.days. We think it is a very fair proposition. John, what is your
:55:59. > :56:07.position? The Green Party's view is designated days, but it is also
:56:08. > :56:19.about how do we combat our own generation of parties? With 11
:56:20. > :56:22.councils there will be even more con -- confrontation. There will be more
:56:23. > :56:29.minorities within bigger councils. But this is democratic politics,
:56:30. > :56:34.this is a rough-and-tumble point of view. Democracy is not about always
:56:35. > :56:37.agreeing, it is about respect the league disagreeing. So how can we
:56:38. > :56:45.deal with these contentious issues in a way that is democratic? I
:56:46. > :56:53.said, packed City Hall with those who want to support your particular
:56:54. > :57:00.policy. And we shouldn't forget those are all big issues which may
:57:01. > :57:09.colour people's votes. Let's pause now and reflect on the political
:57:10. > :57:12.week gone past in 60 seconds. The victims commissioner proposes a
:57:13. > :57:17.pension for those injured during the troubles. The First Minister said it
:57:18. > :57:21.was not as simple as that. I will not be putting my hand to any
:57:22. > :57:27.proposal that is going to reward those engaged in terrorism. A former
:57:28. > :57:30.victims advocates that there can be no more delays. They need to
:57:31. > :57:39.implement those proposals, no matter how difficult their riot -- how
:57:40. > :57:43.difficult they are. More racist attacks on Polish homes. Peter
:57:44. > :57:48.Robinson is accused of cowardice. This man has shown no leadership was
:57:49. > :57:52.so all in east Belfast. In the Republic, the Justice Minister
:57:53. > :57:59.finally resigns after a report criticising his department.
:58:00. > :58:05.And a new phase who paid tribute to a precedent. And pretty in pink,
:58:06. > :58:15.Northern Ireland goes our gap for the Giro. -- goes gaga.
:58:16. > :58:23.Martina Purdy reporting. Let's hear again finally from Patricia McBride
:58:24. > :58:32.and Sam McBride. Let's talk about the victims issue. You will obscene
:58:33. > :58:36.the proposals. A pension for people badly injured has been suggested,
:58:37. > :58:43.but Peter Robinson said he will have nothing to do with it if it benefits
:58:44. > :58:47.people who are part of the problem. I think Peter Robinson needs to be
:58:48. > :58:53.very careful about who use going to say shouldn't receive a pension. How
:58:54. > :58:58.is he going to bet these people? Are ex-security people going to be put
:58:59. > :59:01.through a vetting process to make sure they did not act
:59:02. > :59:05.inappropriately during the conflict? The issue about how we deal with the
:59:06. > :59:11.past is about getting the British and Irish governments involved
:59:12. > :59:15.again. Do you think Richard is going to be brought back with some kind of
:59:16. > :59:20.further attempt to solve the problem? When he last spoke, he did
:59:21. > :59:24.not give any impression he was itching to get back here. On the
:59:25. > :59:29.issue of victims and the pensions, it would be insane if someone who
:59:30. > :59:40.planted a bomb was to be given a pension from taxpayers.
:59:41. > :59:45.That's it from Sunday Politics. Join me for Stormont Today on BBC Two
:59:46. > :59:51.tomorrow night at 11.20pm. For now, though, bye-bye.