:00:37. > :00:42.David Cameron slaps down two of his most senior Cabinet ministers
:00:43. > :00:47.over their public row about Islamist extremism in schools.
:00:48. > :00:53.And it?s HER special advisor that has to resign.
:00:54. > :00:57.We'll talk to the Shadow Education Secretary live.
:00:58. > :01:00.Should this man become the next President of the EU Commission?
:01:01. > :01:04.David Cameron has staked a lot on stopping Luxembourg Federalist
:01:05. > :01:14.But could the arch europhile yet get the top job?
:01:15. > :01:16.Here's to the quarter of a million votes.
:01:17. > :01:21.And we'll find out why this political party is celebrating with
:01:22. > :01:23.a pint down the pub and how their success may have cost UKIP two MEPs.
:01:24. > :01:33.With antiracism protesters on the streets of Belfast again, what can
:01:34. > :01:34.politicians do to combat Has Boris Johnson deserted
:01:35. > :01:42.suburbs and become a zone one man? And with me our panel
:01:43. > :01:45.of top political journalists, who are always squabbling among
:01:46. > :01:48.themselves, Nick Watt, Polly Toynbee and Janan Ganesh, who will be
:01:49. > :01:51.tweeting throughout the programme This morning's political news is
:01:52. > :01:55.dominated by the very public fall-out of
:01:56. > :01:58.Home Secretary Theresa May and The high viz blue
:01:59. > :02:02.on blue spat between two senior Conservatives centred around the
:02:03. > :02:04.Government's approach to tackling The row burst into the open ahead
:02:05. > :02:11.of the publication tomorrow of investigations into the so-called
:02:12. > :02:15.Trojan Horse plot in Birmingham, where it is alleged several state
:02:16. > :02:19.schools have been covertly taken Mr Gove told The Times last week he
:02:20. > :02:25.was concerned that the Home Office was unwilling to tackle extremism
:02:26. > :02:28.at its roots. He said a robust response was
:02:29. > :02:32.needed to drain the swamp. In response,
:02:33. > :02:34.Mrs May's special advisor tweeted, "why is the Department for Education
:02:35. > :02:36.wanting to blame other people Lord knows what more they have
:02:37. > :02:43.overlooked on the subject of the An angry David Cameron ordered
:02:44. > :02:50.a speedy inquiry. Last night, Mr Gove apologised to
:02:51. > :02:53.the Prime Minister, while Ms May's Speaking
:02:54. > :02:58.on the BBC earlier this morning, this is what Foreign Secretary,
:02:59. > :03:04.William Hague, had to say. There's been a disciplinary matter
:03:05. > :03:06.within the Government, which the Prime Minister has dealt
:03:07. > :03:09.with in a very firm, clear way. There will be discipline
:03:10. > :03:11.in the Government. The main thing is the issue itself -
:03:12. > :03:17.tackling extremism in schools. The Government will be very clear,
:03:18. > :03:23.very robust about anything that's put children at risk -
:03:24. > :03:49.risk to their safety or learning. Let's look at the positive of this.
:03:50. > :03:55.Theresa May 's people of saying she has come off worse in theirs. Yelena
:03:56. > :04:05.Kushi is no more guilty than Michael Gove he was guilty of indiscretion.
:04:06. > :04:10.She is no more guilty. Even during 13 years of new Labour 's
:04:11. > :04:17.psychodrama, I cannot remember an act of hostility quite as naked as
:04:18. > :04:24.direct as publishing on a website and intergovernmental letter. It
:04:25. > :04:28.suggests quite a lot of conservatives do not think they will
:04:29. > :04:32.win next time. Why would there be a leadership spat going on like this
:04:33. > :04:41.unless they thought there was a vacancy? Inside the Cabinet, Theresa
:04:42. > :04:44.May is getting quite a bashing. In the Sunday Times, someone has
:04:45. > :04:50.reported she is the date from hell. She sidles up to people and is
:04:51. > :04:56.nakedly ambitious. I think that is interesting. On the whole, nobody
:04:57. > :05:02.will understand the finesse differences of opinion. It is not
:05:03. > :05:07.serious, it is not serious, it is tactical. It'll be puzzling for most
:05:08. > :05:13.people and will probably fizzle out. Has the Prime Minister slapped it
:05:14. > :05:19.down or will it rumble on? On the politics of it, it will not fizzle
:05:20. > :05:23.out. What you have is Theresa May is deadly serious about replacing David
:05:24. > :05:29.Cameron, not dislodging him but replacing him if there is a vacancy.
:05:30. > :05:33.Michael Gove is deadly serious in ensuring George Osborne succeeds
:05:34. > :05:36.David Cameron. It will be that ongoing political rivalry. What is
:05:37. > :05:41.really interesting about this is the Prime Minister is absolutely fed up
:05:42. > :05:47.with both of them. He is fed up with Michael Gove full-size gearing of
:05:48. > :05:53.message. He had the row with Nick Clegg and he had a row with Theresa
:05:54. > :05:57.May. He named Charles Barr and criticised him in a lunch with the
:05:58. > :06:07.times. White brother he is the Security adviser at the Home Office.
:06:08. > :06:14.-- he is the security advisor. He is fed up with Theresa May for mounting
:06:15. > :06:19.an unannounced leader bid. What separates Theresa May from Michael
:06:20. > :06:26.Gove on dealing with extremism? The view from Michael Gove is that it
:06:27. > :06:31.shows no interest in Islamic extremism until it manifests in
:06:32. > :06:36.violent form. Theresa May is criticised for rolling back the
:06:37. > :06:40.programme which the previous Labour government introduced to do with the
:06:41. > :06:46.previous Labour government introduced to do with the Home
:06:47. > :06:53.Office has been made by other people and made when the Home Office was
:06:54. > :06:55.not run by Theresa May but previous home secretaries, even dating back
:06:56. > :07:01.to the Conservative government in the 1990s. It is about the laxity of
:07:02. > :07:04.the Government. Michael Gove has used extraordinary inflammatory
:07:05. > :07:10.language talking about draining the swamp. I think Theresa May 's view
:07:11. > :07:17.is you can very easily inflamed those emotions and create many more
:07:18. > :07:20.extremists the process. Michael Gove would say that his approach is
:07:21. > :07:24.entirely consistent with the speech the Prime Minister made to the
:07:25. > :07:28.Munich Security conference in 2011 when the Prime Minister talked about
:07:29. > :07:45.warp the grape great religion of Islam. The Birmingham school system
:07:46. > :07:50.is going to be one of the most reported systems in Europe.
:07:51. > :07:53.Joining me now from Kent is Shadow Education Secretary Tristram Hunt.
:07:54. > :08:03.Should parents of Birmingham children be worried that some of
:08:04. > :08:08.their schools are in the grip of an Islamist takeover? I think parents
:08:09. > :08:11.in Birmingham schools will be very disappointed by the political
:08:12. > :08:15.infighting going on in the Government. The briefings, the
:08:16. > :08:21.resignations, the apologies. The real apology that Michael Gove needs
:08:22. > :08:25.to deliver it to the pupil -- the pupils and parents of Birmingham.
:08:26. > :08:29.There was a potential threat of radicalisation. He fell to act for
:08:30. > :08:34.four years. The Labour Party is asking, when did he know the fact
:08:35. > :08:39.that radicalisation could have been taking place? What has been going on
:08:40. > :08:44.for the last four years? What we in the Labour Party want to see if much
:08:45. > :08:47.stronger systems of local oversight and accountability to situations
:08:48. > :08:52.like this do not arise again. Is there, in your view, if some of the
:08:53. > :09:02.Birmingham schools, an Islamist takeover? What we have seen in the
:09:03. > :09:06.leaked Ofsted report so far is fears about cultural isolation and an
:09:07. > :09:11.overconcentration on Islamic teaching within the curriculum. We
:09:12. > :09:15.want young people to celebrate their cultural identity, celebrate
:09:16. > :09:20.themselves as Muslims. We also want them to have an education which
:09:21. > :09:24.makes them succeed in multicultural 21st-century Birmingham. We want to
:09:25. > :09:31.be quite tough on moves towards gender segregation, a restricted
:09:32. > :09:36.curriculum. Birmingham is a multicultural city. We need an
:09:37. > :09:41.education system which celebrates that. What is wrong with gender
:09:42. > :09:48.segregation? You went to an all boys school. Where you have gender
:09:49. > :09:54.segregation, we have had a long tradition in Catholic schooling.
:09:55. > :09:59.Where you have a state education system, which is about gender
:10:00. > :10:02.equality between boys and girls, and there is an unofficial policy of
:10:03. > :10:07.gender segregation, that is unacceptable. We should not be
:10:08. > :10:13.tarring communities with the same brush in terms of radicalisation. We
:10:14. > :10:20.do want to see a successful, multicultural education. Two years
:10:21. > :10:24.ago, Ofsted rated Parkview as outstanding. Now it looks like
:10:25. > :10:30.tomorrow it is going into special measures. What is it up to? I do
:10:31. > :10:35.think there is an issue for Ofsted that you can go from outstanding to
:10:36. > :10:40.inadequate so quickly. That is why we are asking for a new criteria to
:10:41. > :10:47.be introduced to look at a broad and balanced curriculum. We have healthy
:10:48. > :10:51.sex and relationship education. There is a real issue this morning
:10:52. > :10:54.as the BBC has been reporting on the night for the Department of
:10:55. > :10:58.Education. We are hearing that some of those involved in the schools
:10:59. > :11:01.were not allowed to open a free school on security grounds. They
:11:02. > :11:07.were allowed to allow one of the schools to be taken over as an
:11:08. > :11:10.academy. We have a lack of oversight and accountability in schools within
:11:11. > :11:14.Birmingham. What the Labour Party wants is a local director of school
:11:15. > :11:24.standards to make sure we challenge underperformance and make sure we
:11:25. > :11:30.get in confronting Islamic extremism when it was in power? I was speaking
:11:31. > :11:35.to Hazel blears and she was very clear about the prevent programme
:11:36. > :11:43.which they rolled out when in office. A very atomised and
:11:44. > :11:51.fragmented school system where every school is looked at from behind a
:11:52. > :11:56.desk in Whitehall and he put that together and you do have an
:11:57. > :12:09.increased risk of chances of radicalisation. You have attacked Mr
:12:10. > :12:18.Gove for gross negligence. Was it the same -- you attacked Mr Gove for
:12:19. > :12:23.gross negligence. We are dealing with a government which has been in
:12:24. > :12:26.since 2010. The Government needs to hold the executive to account. We
:12:27. > :12:34.note the Department Michael Gove was warned by a senior and respected
:12:35. > :12:41.head teacher about fears over radicalism. What did he know and
:12:42. > :12:44.what did he act upon? We are hearing more reports of conversations about
:12:45. > :12:49.fears, about radicalisation, taking over some of the governing bodies of
:12:50. > :12:56.schools. We need to know what ministers did. Let me continue. You
:12:57. > :13:04.mention the capital to prevent strategy. Was it gross negligence
:13:05. > :13:08.for Labour to regularly consult a man who once headed a group
:13:09. > :13:14.dedicated to making Britain an Islamic state and wrote a book about
:13:15. > :13:18.schools full of Taliban style decrees. I think the events in
:13:19. > :13:25.Birmingham are enormously significant. About the nature of
:13:26. > :13:29.multiculturalism, the nature of education, the role of civic
:13:30. > :13:32.education, the role of faith schools. I will say to you this
:13:33. > :13:37.morning that Birmingham City Council, Ofsted, the Labour Party,
:13:38. > :13:48.the Department for Education were all involved in this conversation.
:13:49. > :13:51.In 2010, ministers were warned about potential radicalisation of schools
:13:52. > :13:57.and they fell to act. We need to know why, for years on, they allowed
:13:58. > :14:02.this situation to exacerbate. When you look at the record of labour and
:14:03. > :14:06.this government 's record, there are plenty of examples where both of you
:14:07. > :14:10.fail to act. Would it not be better to drop the party politics and get
:14:11. > :14:18.together to confront this problem for the sake of the children? There
:14:19. > :14:22.are a number of reports going on in Birmingham. Some are led by the city
:14:23. > :14:27.council, some by the Department for Education. Labour MPs this morning
:14:28. > :14:32.have come forward with the Bishop of Birmingham talking about faith in
:14:33. > :14:36.schools. If you have a minister failing to do their job, if you have
:14:37. > :14:40.a minister being given warnings in 2010 and failing to act on them for
:14:41. > :14:43.four years, the opposition has a role to hold the executive to
:14:44. > :14:48.account. This is about the safety and standards of teaching for pupils
:14:49. > :14:52.in Birmingham schools. It is about a great education for these young
:14:53. > :14:57.people so they can succeed in a modern, multicultural Britain. Do
:14:58. > :15:04.you agree with your Shadow Cabinet colleague, Rachel Reeves, that
:15:05. > :15:11.Labour' as core voters are abandoning the party? She was
:15:12. > :15:16.building on what Ed said the day after the elections in Berwick. We
:15:17. > :15:19.have to make sure those communities who we historically represent regard
:15:20. > :15:24.Labour as having a successful message for them. I am passionate
:15:25. > :15:28.about making sure we have great vocational and technical education,
:15:29. > :15:36.the great academic education in our schools. If we have more work to do
:15:37. > :15:38.to get people to the polling booths, we must do that. We must
:15:39. > :15:47.with listen to what she says. David Cameron has staked a lot on
:15:48. > :15:50.stopping the former PM of Luxembourg - named by one newspaper as 'the
:15:51. > :15:53.most dangerous man in Europe' because of his federalist views -
:15:54. > :15:56.from becoming the next president Mr Cameron has reportedly described
:15:57. > :16:03.Jean Claude Juncker as a 'face from the 80s who cannot solve the
:16:04. > :16:07.problems of the next five years'. But with the German Chancellor
:16:08. > :16:09.Angela Merkel publicly backing Mr Juncker, it's not a dead cert that
:16:10. > :16:12.Mr Cameron can stop his appointment. This is what he had to say at the G7
:16:13. > :16:22.summit earlier this week: It is important that we have people
:16:23. > :16:27.running the institutions of Europe who understand the need for change
:16:28. > :16:31.and reform. I would argue that view is widely shared amongst other heads
:16:32. > :16:35.of government and heads of state in the European Union. I am clear what
:16:36. > :16:40.I want to achieve for Britain's future, to secure Britain's placed
:16:41. > :16:44.in a reformed European Union and I have a strategy for delivering
:16:45. > :16:47.that, a strategy for dealing with an issue which I think if we walk away
:16:48. > :16:49.from it would see Britain drift towards the exits.
:16:50. > :16:52.We've been joined from Berlin by the German MEP Elmar Brok who is
:16:53. > :16:56.a senior figure in the EPP - that's the party backing Mr Juncker.
:16:57. > :17:01.He's also Chairman of the Union of European Federalists.
:17:02. > :17:04.And in our Newcastle newsroom is the former Conservative MEP Martin
:17:05. > :17:07.Callanan who until last month led the European Conservatives
:17:08. > :17:15.and Reformists group in Brussels. Welcome to you both.
:17:16. > :17:24.The United Kingdom, Sweden, Hungary, they don't want Mr Junker, the new
:17:25. > :17:31.Italian Prime Minister doesn't look keen either, should he bow out
:17:32. > :17:36.gracefully? First of all, he wants to have Mr Junker but he wants to
:17:37. > :17:43.have his conditions. Will he become president of the European Council, a
:17:44. > :17:48.high representative? It is a discussion to be had in the next
:17:49. > :17:53.three or four weeks until the European Parliament can elect the
:17:54. > :17:57.president of the European Council after the proposal of the European
:17:58. > :18:02.Council, which has to be done after consultation with the Parliament in
:18:03. > :18:11.the light of the European elections and by a majority vote. If not Mr
:18:12. > :18:14.Junker, then who? There are many available candidates, I am not going
:18:15. > :18:22.to mention them in front of someone so esteemed as Elmar Brok. Give us
:18:23. > :18:27.one name that you would prefer? The prime Minister of Sweden, Christine
:18:28. > :18:33.Lagarde, the minister from Lithuania, these are people who have
:18:34. > :18:40.a record of old reform. Junker is the ultimate Europe insider. We need
:18:41. > :18:45.radical inform. We need to respond to the message the electorate gave
:18:46. > :18:50.us in the elections -- radical reform. Junker said he had to lie in
:18:51. > :18:54.public, he allowed the security services to conduct a dirty tricks
:18:55. > :18:59.campaign against his opponent. This is not who we want leading the
:19:00. > :19:02.European Commission. Elmar Brok, since the European voters have sent
:19:03. > :19:06.a message to the parliament that they are not happy with the status
:19:07. > :19:13.quo, why would you want a man who is synonymous with the status quo?
:19:14. > :19:24.First of all what Martin has said is wrong. He has not done tricks
:19:25. > :19:30.against his opponents. He was very clear on that. He is also the man
:19:31. > :19:35.who was always for changes. He made dramatic changes as head of the Euro
:19:36. > :19:39.group, came out of the economic crisis which was a result of the
:19:40. > :19:42.financial crisis, made politics possible, to stop this incredible
:19:43. > :19:47.financial sector influence of our states. I believe he is a man who
:19:48. > :19:52.works on the programme which Mrs Merkel and others have decided in
:19:53. > :19:57.Dublin, for the reform of the European Union, less government. But
:19:58. > :20:01.we need Europe more and he is not a man from the 80s. He is a man of
:20:02. > :20:05.this century and in this century he made his own policy. He is the
:20:06. > :20:09.winner of the European elections, he has a majority will stop Mrs
:20:10. > :20:14.LANguard is not running because she knows she will not get the majority
:20:15. > :20:21.in the European Parliament. -- Christine Lagarde is not running. It
:20:22. > :20:28.is the Council of minister is that decides. No, the European Parliament
:20:29. > :20:32.has the final word. The European Council can make a proposal by
:20:33. > :20:33.majority in the light of the European elections after
:20:34. > :20:38.consultation with the European Parliament. The council cannot get a
:20:39. > :20:45.candidate against the will of the European Parliament. Mr Junker has a
:20:46. > :20:49.majority in the European Parliament. Theoretically he is right, the
:20:50. > :20:52.Parliament has do vote on the candidates proposed by the council.
:20:53. > :20:57.I want to challenge the view that somehow he won the European
:20:58. > :21:01.elections. There is no provision for Jean Claude Junker to stand in the
:21:02. > :21:05.elections. He is saying that the EEP party got the most number of seats
:21:06. > :21:09.in the Parliament but none of the electorate knew they were taking
:21:10. > :21:12.part in this election. How many people who voted Labour in the
:21:13. > :21:17.United Kingdom realised that their vote would count towards a German
:21:18. > :21:24.socialist to be a candidate for the commission of presidency is a
:21:25. > :21:27.nonsensical proposal. The elections were 28 individual elections with
:21:28. > :21:31.hundreds of parties across Europe. To try to claim there is a
:21:32. > :21:33.democratic mandate for somebody nobody has heard from Luxembourg to
:21:34. > :21:51.take over the commission is a nonsense. People should know him, if
:21:52. > :21:54.I should say that ironically. Newspapers talking about members of
:21:55. > :22:04.the family of his wife with Nazi links... What is the answer to
:22:05. > :22:07.Martin Callinan's point? I think it is clear that British Conservatives
:22:08. > :22:11.have no candidate because they are not a broad European family, they
:22:12. > :22:16.have not impacted on the selection of top candidates but it is a form
:22:17. > :22:22.of isolation of the British Tory Party. The Prime Minister said if Mr
:22:23. > :22:26.Junker is appointed it could lead to Britain drifting towards the EU
:22:27. > :22:31.exit, is that credible? Is it melodramatic? It is true that we
:22:32. > :22:35.want to renegotiate the relationship. We want some serious
:22:36. > :22:40.reform in Europe so the people who vote in a referendum will be able to
:22:41. > :22:46.vote to stay in if that is what they want. We need a bold reformer,
:22:47. > :22:52.somebody prepared to engage. That is not anti the interests of the UK. We
:22:53. > :22:54.need to recognise there is a problem with public perception of the
:22:55. > :22:57.European Union. Elmar Brok is proud to be one of the last bastions of
:22:58. > :23:02.federalism that that is not where most of the public opinion is in
:23:03. > :23:07.Europe. I understand why he wants his man installed but we need to
:23:08. > :23:13.take into account the message of the letter -- the electorate. 25% of the
:23:14. > :23:19.publishing of France were prepared to vote for an openly racist party.
:23:20. > :23:25.We can't just ignore the signal that the electorate were sending us. If
:23:26. > :23:29.enthusiasm for federalism was at an all-time low, it would be a slap in
:23:30. > :23:36.the face for the voters of Europe to have a federalist as the president,
:23:37. > :23:41.would it not? 70, 80% of the members of the European Parliament, selected
:23:42. > :23:45.by their people, are pro-Europeans. These are the winners of the
:23:46. > :23:48.European elections. Even in France, a majority of voters have voted
:23:49. > :23:53.pro-European and that should be clear, not to make this a populist
:23:54. > :24:04.thing which is not only to do with Europe. And we want to have a Europe
:24:05. > :24:10.which is strong, the member states should do their things. We do not
:24:11. > :24:14.want to have a European centralism, we do not want a European state.
:24:15. > :24:18.This is not at stake. Let's talk about the question of better
:24:19. > :24:22.governance, let's talk about what was wrong in the past, we have to
:24:23. > :24:27.become better, to change our programme in that question. That
:24:28. > :24:34.should be the way we lead to come to positive results. Thank you for
:24:35. > :24:37.that. Before we go, there is a British commissioner that needs to
:24:38. > :24:43.be appointed to Brussels, do you like the sound of that? These are
:24:44. > :24:48.matters for the Prime Minister, I am sure he has many excellent
:24:49. > :24:57.candidates. Do you like the sound of it? Like previous British
:24:58. > :25:00.commissioners, Chris Patten, Neil clinic, I have just lost an election
:25:01. > :25:06.-- Neil Kinnock for the everybody who is asked would serve, I'm sure.
:25:07. > :25:09.Just days ago UKIP were celebrating topping the poll in the European
:25:10. > :25:15.They're claiming they'd have had two more MEPs
:25:16. > :25:19.and the Greens two fewer had another party not confused the electorate.
:25:20. > :25:21.What's more UKIP say it's the fault of the body
:25:22. > :25:24.which was set up to oversee elections - the Electoral Commission
:25:25. > :25:37.This is a party celebrating success at the European elections. They
:25:38. > :25:43.didn't win a single MEP but nationally polled 250,000 votes.
:25:44. > :25:47.They are an independence from Europe, mostly people who were once
:25:48. > :26:06.in UKIP, and that is rather the point. They may look like capers,
:26:07. > :26:14.drink like capers, sound like capers -- -- sound like kippers, but they
:26:15. > :26:17.are not. The name and the logo were displayed on this banner when the
:26:18. > :26:23.party launched its campaign. UKIP suggest the look, the wording and
:26:24. > :26:29.the inclusion of UK in now confused voters, and are looking at rewriting
:26:30. > :26:32.such a wrong. The way that seats are allocated in a European election
:26:33. > :26:38.under a proportional representation system is using this formula. It was
:26:39. > :26:45.invented by a Belgian mathematician in 1878 and it is essentially this.
:26:46. > :26:50.When all of the votes have been tallied up, the one with the most
:26:51. > :26:52.seats gets the first MEPC in a region. The others are allocated
:26:53. > :27:02.using votes cast divided by the number of seats gained plus one --
:27:03. > :27:07.first MEP seat in a region. UKIP were concerned with South West and
:27:08. > :27:11.London. There they say, when the last MEP seats were being allocated,
:27:12. > :27:15.if everyone who had voted for an independence from Europe had meant
:27:16. > :27:20.to vote for UKIP and you tallied their votes up, and added them to
:27:21. > :27:27.UKIP, UKIP would have been up one in each region and the greens would
:27:28. > :27:30.have lost them. Whether you can prove that voters did that by
:27:31. > :27:38.mistake is a very different matter. UKIP may have to just chalk it up to
:27:39. > :27:42.experience. It has happened before, back in the European elections of
:27:43. > :27:48.1994. Then in England under the first past the post system. This
:27:49. > :27:50.man, Richard Huggett, decided to stand as a little Democrat and
:27:51. > :27:57.polled a significant number of votes. The Liberal Democrat
:27:58. > :28:04.candidate at the time is now an MP. Many people voted and afterwards
:28:05. > :28:08.realised that they had bubbly voted for -- probably voted for a little
:28:09. > :28:15.Democrat, not a Liberal Democrat as they had been intending to do --
:28:16. > :28:26.bubbly voted for a literal Democrat -- probably voted.
:28:27. > :28:30.Mr Sanders got some consolation. In 1998, laws came into rule on
:28:31. > :28:33.so-called spoiler tactics and the Electoral Commission was
:28:34. > :28:36.established. The Electoral Commission are based on the seventh
:28:37. > :28:40.floor of this building and they did look into this issue prior to
:28:41. > :28:43.voting. They have given us a statement that reveals the
:28:44. > :28:47.conclusion they came to, part of which says, we decided that the name
:28:48. > :28:53.of the party, and its description are sufficiently different to those
:28:54. > :28:58.registered by the UK Independence Party, UKIP, to mean, in our
:28:59. > :29:00.opinion, that voters were not likely to be confused if they appeared on
:29:01. > :29:08.the same ballot paper. Pretty conclusive stuff. Back at the pub,
:29:09. > :29:13.were an independence from Europe just being crafty, or do UKIP need
:29:14. > :29:18.to wake up and smell the flowers? We attack them in all areas. An
:29:19. > :29:21.independent study for Anglo Netherlands because I was involved
:29:22. > :29:26.in the Dutch -- with the Dutch member of Parliament and the
:29:27. > :29:32.description was UK Independence now, nobody has a monopoly on the word
:29:33. > :29:38.independence. I have been fighting for independence since I started in
:29:39. > :29:41.1994, before I joined UKIP. The party tell me they will stand again
:29:42. > :29:48.at the general election next year. The ironies not lost on them or the
:29:49. > :29:49.major parties of UKIP complaining that a smaller party has been taking
:29:50. > :29:58.votes of them. Joining me now to discuss
:29:59. > :30:02.this story is Gawain Towler. He's the UKIP candidate for the
:30:03. > :30:05.South West region, who failed to get And in our Bristol studios is
:30:06. > :30:21.the victorious Green MEP for How many of the 23,000 votes that
:30:22. > :30:26.were cast for the Independence party were meant for you? Impossible to
:30:27. > :30:31.tell. I want to congratulate Molly for getting elected. They are the
:30:32. > :30:38.breaks. I do not think there is a purpose in complaining about boats
:30:39. > :30:46.that are cast. Do you think you would have one otherwise? Yes, I do.
:30:47. > :30:49.You have to look at the would have one otherwise? Yes, I do.
:30:50. > :30:53.You have to look boats for parties people have not heard of and those
:30:54. > :30:59.with a long tradition that people have heard of. I do not think there
:31:00. > :31:03.is any doubt. If you saw the spoiled ballot papers, the amount of people
:31:04. > :31:09.who had voted at the top ballot papers, the amount of people
:31:10. > :31:15.bottom, most people are not anoraks, they say, they are the people I
:31:16. > :31:29.want. They know what they are after. I think it is at least told. It is
:31:30. > :31:36.said you owe your seat to And Independence Party. It is strange
:31:37. > :31:43.for a man to say he could represent people in the south-west better than
:31:44. > :31:50.me. There has been outpouring of delight that a Green MP has finally
:31:51. > :31:55.been elected. A number of people have been saying they have been
:31:56. > :31:59.voting all their lives and it is the first time they have elected
:32:00. > :32:04.anybody. I am glad to represent them in a significant legislature. What
:32:05. > :32:12.would you say to that? I find it strange. I am perfectly happy for
:32:13. > :32:17.her to be elected. I feel the electoral commission has questions
:32:18. > :32:23.to answer. But, congratulations to Molly. Why do you want an extra seat
:32:24. > :32:30.for the Greens in the European Parliament but your national share
:32:31. > :32:34.of the vote actually fell. We did come under pressure nationally. If
:32:35. > :32:39.he is complaining about the role the election commission said we could
:32:40. > :32:43.stand, the rule we were not happy with was the off, ruling which said
:32:44. > :32:50.we were not a main party. We got significantly less media time and
:32:51. > :32:53.that is why our belt actually fell. Not on the Daily Politics or the
:32:54. > :33:04.Sunday Politics, where you were well represented. Was it a problem for
:33:05. > :33:19.UKIP in other parts of the country? Only in London. What do you think
:33:20. > :33:23.happened there? Very much the same. I do not think there is any doubt,
:33:24. > :33:27.the number of people we have had getting in touch saying, I am really
:33:28. > :33:32.sorry, I made a mess, that they voted for the wrong party. They are
:33:33. > :33:37.the breaks. Politics is politics. What I would like to see and what is
:33:38. > :33:43.reasonable, and I hope Molly would agree, there needs to be a reform -
:33:44. > :33:50.a serious reform of the Electoral Commission. There is no appeal
:33:51. > :33:56.process. They say it is not confusing. Lets see if she thinks
:33:57. > :34:01.that. I make it a policy never to agree with UKIP. What is important
:34:02. > :34:04.to note, if you look at the votes and the way the votes fell out and
:34:05. > :34:08.the seats fell out in the south-west, it is difficult for an
:34:09. > :34:15.Electoral Commission to turn boats into seats. UKIP got 33% of the vote
:34:16. > :34:21.and 33% of the seats. For them, the system worked very well in the
:34:22. > :34:26.south-west. Nationally, Greens did not get represented as the vote
:34:27. > :34:30.share would require. That is because you get very small number of seats
:34:31. > :34:34.in the different regions and you have to reach a high threshold. The
:34:35. > :34:38.Green Party has a right to complain about the level of seats we have
:34:39. > :34:46.ended up with. White rapper you have complaints about the Electoral
:34:47. > :34:50.Commission? We need to move to a proportional system for elections
:34:51. > :34:54.generally. If we poll around 7%, 8%, we should be looking at having 30,
:34:55. > :34:59.40 seats in the national legislature. We need to consider
:35:00. > :35:03.proportional representation for national elections. Do you accept
:35:04. > :35:08.the ballot paper may have confused some people? I think what happened
:35:09. > :35:15.is that some people in UKIP were very worried. Worried about the
:35:16. > :35:19.rightward move of UKIP and the authoritarian leadership of Nigel
:35:20. > :35:24.Farage. He set up a separate party. That is what happens in politics,
:35:25. > :35:35.particularly when parties are led by demagogues and are not focused on
:35:36. > :35:39.Democratic policy. Do you have any legal redress to this? None
:35:40. > :35:48.whatsoever. Have you had legal advice? I am told there is no
:35:49. > :35:53.redress. We do feel, I am sure Molly does not agree with UKIP on anything
:35:54. > :35:59.so, if we say the sun rises in the morning, she probably will disagree
:36:00. > :36:07.with that. If, at the next election, there is a party called the Grown
:36:08. > :36:11.Party, will she then complain? There needs to be some level of
:36:12. > :36:18.accountability and, without that, one wonders what is going on. We
:36:19. > :36:21.have an organisation with enormous and important power and influence
:36:22. > :36:29.which is setup to stop this of thing going on. It has failed. Not has it
:36:30. > :36:32.has failed. Not present served in Tower Hamlets and there have been
:36:33. > :36:38.massive problems with postal votes. It is failing on almost everything
:36:39. > :36:43.it is supposed to do. Just to go back for a final point from Molly.
:36:44. > :36:48.Should there be a right of appeal to the rulings of the Electoral
:36:49. > :36:50.Commission? You need to have an authoritative body that makes
:36:51. > :36:55.decisions in this area and we have the Electoral Commission. It is
:36:56. > :37:01.about being sore losers on the part of UKIP. I am delighted to represent
:37:02. > :37:06.people in the South West. Should there be a right of appeal or not?
:37:07. > :37:10.You need an authoritative body and the Electoral Commission is that. I
:37:11. > :37:12.do not think it should have a right to appeal.
:37:13. > :37:17.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now
:37:18. > :37:34.Coming up here in 20 minutes, we'll be discussing extremism
:37:35. > :37:36.Hello and welcome to Sunday Politics.
:37:37. > :37:38.After a stream of apologies, the heat has gone out
:37:39. > :37:43.but just how important an issue is racism for politicians?
:37:44. > :37:46.I'll be talking to the chair of the Community Relations Council
:37:47. > :37:49.and a former member of the Equality Commission to hear their thoughts.
:37:50. > :37:53.Plus, with a whole raft of new councillors voted into post,
:37:54. > :37:57.I'll be hearing from some of those new faces and asking them how ready
:37:58. > :38:02.And with their thoughts on all of that, PR expert Sheila Davidson
:38:03. > :38:17.Both Peter Robinson and Pastor McConnell have apologised
:38:18. > :38:22.taking some of the heat out of the political row on racism.
:38:23. > :38:24.Yesterday protesters took to the streets of Belfast
:38:25. > :38:27.for the second Saturday in a row, demanding an end to racist attacks
:38:28. > :38:31.and for Stormont to publish its Racial Equality Strategy.
:38:32. > :38:32.So where is the anti-racism document?
:38:33. > :38:39.Joining me is the chairman of the Community Relations Council,
:38:40. > :38:47.who's a former member of the Equality Commission.
:38:48. > :38:58.thank you for joining us. How damaging the finger last couple of
:38:59. > :39:05.weeks has been? Community relations have suffered. I think there is
:39:06. > :39:09.momentum around this community demonstrated in the rally yesterday
:39:10. > :39:18.to do some positive things around community relations, sectarianism is
:39:19. > :39:27.a -- sectarianism and racism. I think for the public record, we have
:39:28. > :39:33.seen constructive behaviour and a lesson for us all in many ways from
:39:34. > :39:37.the Islamic Centre in Belfast. A couple of things coming out of the
:39:38. > :39:42.rally yesterday, there was a view from wider civic society that an
:39:43. > :39:47.attack on anybody is an attack on us all, on our aspirations for Belfast
:39:48. > :39:53.and Northern Ireland to be a diverse society, and there was a view coming
:39:54. > :39:57.out of the rally yesterday, I have heard that we need a racial equality
:39:58. > :40:02.strategy. The next number of days and weeks, there needs to be a
:40:03. > :40:08.strong, robust and ambitious strategy that is properly resourced.
:40:09. > :40:18.Paul Yam, what do the people that you represents a about what has
:40:19. > :40:24.happened over the past fortnight? It is not surprising for them that it
:40:25. > :40:31.has happened. It is not great and reassuring that politicians did not
:40:32. > :40:35.unite in the first instance but seeing the Muslim community showing
:40:36. > :40:42.their true colours in terms of their belief about peace, it is excellent.
:40:43. > :40:50.I do work with the Muslim community as well and have contact with them.
:40:51. > :40:57.They have tried really hard in terms of working with the local community
:40:58. > :41:00.to have a mosque of a centre but they are disappointed with what has
:41:01. > :41:12.happened. Disappointed if politicians? Yes, I mean the bottom
:41:13. > :41:19.line is, for the minority community, we do not have a political party to
:41:20. > :41:22.look forward to, who else represents a minority community? It is
:41:23. > :41:29.important for the minority community to be represented, and for the
:41:30. > :41:32.politicians to represent everyone. Politicians would say that they try
:41:33. > :41:37.as best they can to represent everyone. You would not want one
:41:38. > :41:42.party the presenting ethnic minorities necessarily. Is there a
:41:43. > :41:47.way of representing minorities from different communities in this
:41:48. > :41:52.society, perhaps finding a political voice, and becoming more engaged in
:41:53. > :41:58.the political process, whether that is through the main parties some of
:41:59. > :42:06.the fringe parties? We have the all-party group for minorities. We
:42:07. > :42:10.would like to see all parties eagerly attend the meeting and be
:42:11. > :42:17.represented there. We do not have all sections of the party that
:42:18. > :42:23.attend it all the time. We want to see if different parties would reach
:42:24. > :42:28.out to the minorities, and let the minorities focus into politics as
:42:29. > :42:31.well. There must be disappointment that the racial equality strategy
:42:32. > :42:34.has been seven years in the writing and it has still not been published,
:42:35. > :42:40.even for consultation. What you could interpret that as indicating
:42:41. > :42:44.is that that subject is not a priority for local politicians. Is
:42:45. > :42:52.that how you see it? I suppose it is. Coming from 2010, you have got a
:42:53. > :43:00.four-year gap that is not happening. And only recently we have been
:43:01. > :43:08.working very hard on it. Hopefully it will go out for consultation. It
:43:09. > :43:13.will be very useful for all the communities to look at it and
:43:14. > :43:19.feedback and actually work together as a cohesive community and tackle
:43:20. > :43:26.racism, tackle community cohesion about integration. That is a
:43:27. > :43:28.positive interpretation of what the strategy could be, but is it
:43:29. > :43:34.acceptable that we have still not seen it? It is appalling that it has
:43:35. > :43:37.taken seven years to produce this racial equality strategy. It needs
:43:38. > :43:42.to be produced quickly, it needs to be robust and properly resourced. We
:43:43. > :43:45.need to hold a mirror up to ourselves and ask whether the fact
:43:46. > :43:48.that the best taken seven years is a reflection of the priority we need
:43:49. > :43:53.to give to tackling racism and sectarianism. Is that the conclusion
:43:54. > :43:58.you have reached, that it is not a sufficient matter of concern for
:43:59. > :44:03.politicians to get a piece of paper in the public domain for
:44:04. > :44:08.discussion? Never mind the reactions that would subsequently followed.
:44:09. > :44:12.They need to reflect whether they have put enough power behind it.
:44:13. > :44:21.Seven years is an appalling length of time to wait for that strategy.
:44:22. > :44:25.It needs to be robust and ambitious. Is it also possibly the case that
:44:26. > :44:28.people in your organisation, the Community Relations Council and the
:44:29. > :44:31.Equality Commission, and other people who have a public art form
:44:32. > :44:37.have let the politicians off the hook? There has been over many years
:44:38. > :44:41.and the last number of weeks especially. Many people in civic
:44:42. > :44:45.society said we needed to have this sort of strategy. If you look at the
:44:46. > :44:50.Community Relations Council from 16th of June, they support
:44:51. > :44:57.hundreds, dozens of projects throughout Northern Ireland, with
:44:58. > :45:01.events reflecting on the peace building and antiracism work that
:45:02. > :45:05.the council supports, and we hope that many people will support those
:45:06. > :45:09.events from 16th of June. That said, we have to acknowledge the
:45:10. > :45:13.contribution that people from minority ethnic and migrant workers
:45:14. > :45:21.make the Northern Ireland is huge, it is social, cultural and economic.
:45:22. > :45:25.The contribution that they make is absolutely massive. We need to
:45:26. > :45:28.recognise that. Politicians, from the top down, need to be more vocal
:45:29. > :45:33.in recognising that as well. Thank you both.
:45:34. > :45:37.Let's hear the thoughts of today's commentators,
:45:38. > :45:47.Gladys Ganiel and Sheila Davidson. Is this acceptable? This has been
:45:48. > :45:51.ongoing for a number of years. Whether it has happened in good time
:45:52. > :45:56.not as a matter for debate. It is all about cause and effect. What has
:45:57. > :46:01.upped the ante on this is not just what Pastor McConnell said, it was
:46:02. > :46:04.the actual physical attack on a young man in north Belfast that
:46:05. > :46:09.started to get people to understand what the consequence was, that kind
:46:10. > :46:13.of rhetoric happening in the public domain. And that is the kind of
:46:14. > :46:18.thing we need to keep focusing on. And that is why the reaction of the
:46:19. > :46:23.Muslim community has been so instructive to us all, because they
:46:24. > :46:28.have taken that attack on their own community and they have been
:46:29. > :46:34.incredibly generous and respect will -- respectful back into the amenity.
:46:35. > :46:38.There are -- community. But individual members of their
:46:39. > :46:40.community are not happy with the response that they have had. We
:46:41. > :46:46.cannot allow politicians and organisations that represent those
:46:47. > :46:50.people off the hook. None of us should get off the hook on this. We
:46:51. > :46:59.must understand that this affects ordinary people on the ground. They
:47:00. > :47:04.are hurt, and this is what we need to understand, the cause and effect
:47:05. > :47:08.of this. It is so important. It is important to say this is not just
:47:09. > :47:14.have vast two weeks. This has been coming down the road a long time. In
:47:15. > :47:19.2013 research showed there were more research Ashmeade racist attacks in
:47:20. > :47:22.Belfast than in 2003 in Ireland and Northern Ireland combined.
:47:23. > :47:24.Belfast than in 2003 in Ireland and seen an increase that was ignored
:47:25. > :47:30.until the last two weeks with the controversy with Pastor McConnell.
:47:31. > :47:34.We need to recognise that. And the last three or four years, there have
:47:35. > :47:37.been four could tickle reports about the level of prosecutions for hate
:47:38. > :47:41.crime. By the time these cases reach court, only about 15% are able to be
:47:42. > :47:53.prosecuted. In terms of a closely at how many cases get to
:47:54. > :47:54.court. Paul Yam, if you wanted to look at a positive I mention to this
:47:55. > :47:56.debate, you would say look at a positive I mention to this
:47:57. > :48:04.fast was a very support for -- in Belfast was a
:48:05. > :48:09.public support for -- in Belfast was a
:48:10. > :48:13.More people out on a wet Saturday afternoon than on the previous week.
:48:14. > :48:21.It is important for all the communities coming forward, to say
:48:22. > :48:26.that racism is wrong. I think by not saying anything, in a way, you are
:48:27. > :48:36.indirectly supporting the wrong, itself. If you go back and talk
:48:37. > :48:42.about hate crime, you talk about bullying in school,
:48:43. > :48:46.about hate crime, you talk about in school. In Northern Ireland there
:48:47. > :48:50.is no bullying policy in school. The bullying policy, lots of head
:48:51. > :48:58.teachers, they are not adequately able to deal with bullying in
:48:59. > :49:05.school. Bullying policy needs to be in place in all schools and teachers
:49:06. > :49:07.have to be trade -- trained for it. That is an interesting other
:49:08. > :49:13.dimensional to the discussion that you have raised. We will hear more
:49:14. > :49:16.from our guest commentators later in the programme.
:49:17. > :49:20.Thank you all. Now, let's pause for a moment
:49:21. > :49:24.and take a look back at the week in 60 seconds, with Stephen Walker.
:49:25. > :49:32.Peter Robinson went to Belfast Islamic Centre and showed that sorry
:49:33. > :49:36.is not a hard world at all. I apologised to them, you said in
:49:37. > :49:39.private, I say that I apologised face-to-face, personally,
:49:40. > :49:45.man-to-man, the way that it should be done. There was anger in the
:49:46. > :49:49.Stormont Chamber over his absence from the Chamber during a debate on
:49:50. > :49:52.racism. It is deeply regrettable that he is not here. There is an
:49:53. > :49:58.empty Chair there are, well the First Minister should be. The police
:49:59. > :50:02.on Bosman takes Matt I get to court over whims of obstruction was a
:50:03. > :50:12.former business said that the law is clear. -- Matt Badgett. Parliament
:50:13. > :50:19.made it will clear. It is explicit. And in the Assembly, one question
:50:20. > :50:22.was a cut above the rest. I thank the member for his question. I did
:50:23. > :50:29.not think he had much of an interest in hairdressers!
:50:30. > :50:32.The DUP's Adrian McQuillan taking Mark H Durkan's joke in good spirit.
:50:33. > :50:37.Now, the election to the new super councils two weeks ago
:50:38. > :50:40.ushered in a wave of young, eager faces to the political scene here.
:50:41. > :50:43.The newly-elected councillors will soon be cutting their teeth
:50:44. > :50:47.than those serving in local government in the past.
:50:48. > :50:49.But, just like comic book superheroes, with extra power
:50:50. > :50:51.comes extra responsibility. So how ready are they?
:50:52. > :50:54.Joining me now are Alex Redpath of the Ulster Unionists,
:50:55. > :50:58.the SDLP's Laura Devlin and Ross Brown from the Greens.
:50:59. > :51:08.Welcome to the programme. Are you well enough equipped to deal with
:51:09. > :51:13.the new powers on the super councils that will take up authority in ten
:51:14. > :51:18.months time? I believe so. I trained as an economist. That has given me a
:51:19. > :51:23.good background in terms of economic element issues that will be taken up
:51:24. > :51:28.by the councils. And also having an understanding of the principles of
:51:29. > :51:34.sustainability, incorporating that into the planning policy is going to
:51:35. > :51:37.be important as well. You might be confident for yourself, but do you
:51:38. > :51:41.think that other new councillors who will face the same challenges next
:51:42. > :51:46.spring will be equally well-qualified and prepared? I am
:51:47. > :51:49.willing to work with everybody on the council and share my expertise
:51:50. > :51:52.and experience and do my best to make sure that the council is an
:51:53. > :51:57.effective body. The councils have been given powers of community
:51:58. > :52:01.planning and it is important that we have the communities equipped to not
:52:02. > :52:06.just be asked of consultants in the planning process, but to be active
:52:07. > :52:14.participants. Even more importantly, we need to empower
:52:15. > :52:19.communities and make sure that they can become participants in the
:52:20. > :52:27.process. Are you as confident as Ross is? I come from a constituency
:52:28. > :52:30.background, 11 years experience working in constituency offices. I
:52:31. > :52:36.believe that will stand me in good stead. I think we have a good mix of
:52:37. > :52:40.people. We have a lot of new people, fresh blood, which is billion, but
:52:41. > :52:47.we have councillors who have significant experience. 40 years in
:52:48. > :52:54.local government. So, to take that experience, I think that it will be
:52:55. > :52:58.a good fit, moving forward. Alex, do you ever wake up in the middle of
:52:59. > :53:09.the night and think, what have I let myself in for? Occasionally. I have
:53:10. > :53:16.lived in Liz Burn my entire life. I am the governor of a local special
:53:17. > :53:21.school, I have experience, and I have the skill set, and I am
:53:22. > :53:27.confident for my colleagues and for the other councillors in the area.
:53:28. > :53:31.We are going to be receiving training. There are big challenges
:53:32. > :53:35.ahead. I am confident for myself and my party that we can grasp these
:53:36. > :53:41.challenges. There are big challenges, aren't there, on things
:53:42. > :53:49.like where the council will have its headquarters, you have got two big
:53:50. > :53:53.Unionist councils now merge, is that going to be a harmonious marriage?
:53:54. > :53:58.There are are issues like flags and emblems. Maybe they knew super
:53:59. > :54:03.councils could be caught on the hook of those issues before they make
:54:04. > :54:09.progress on the other big issues. These are potentially controversial
:54:10. > :54:14.issues. The other councillors have a diverse range of views. One of my
:54:15. > :54:20.colleagues represents the public side of the constituency as far away
:54:21. > :54:24.as Don Donald. We are going to be trying to build a sense of teamwork
:54:25. > :54:30.between the areas. To try and create a shared identity. We have alluded
:54:31. > :54:33.to controversial topics like flags and emblems. The best way to
:54:34. > :54:37.approach those issues is with charity and respect for your
:54:38. > :54:44.colleagues and try to come up with a collaborative approach. Do you think
:54:45. > :54:48.that it could nonetheless get caught on the hook of flags and emblems?
:54:49. > :54:55.That is where the flags protest was created. I agree with Alex, we
:54:56. > :55:02.should approach the matter with a degree of maturity. The issue of
:55:03. > :55:05.flags and emblems are symptomatic of deeper, wider issues in society and
:55:06. > :55:11.underlying social issues and issues of intergenerational poverty and
:55:12. > :55:14.education and health issues. We need to speak to people in the
:55:15. > :55:18.committee. These are issues that are important for them. I would hope to
:55:19. > :55:24.focus my time and agenda on making sure that people in society are not
:55:25. > :55:27.being left behind, because many people out there at the moment feel
:55:28. > :55:32.that the government is not delivering for them. That is where
:55:33. > :55:40.my focus will be. Flags might not be an issue in your community as in
:55:41. > :55:45.other areas but you have had the issue of the Raymond McCreesh Park.
:55:46. > :55:49.That is to be addressed by the new supercars all. Could there be a
:55:50. > :55:55.issues that will hold you back in the future? I think the key thing is
:55:56. > :55:58.for us to move forward and to ensure that what we're
:55:59. > :55:59.for us to move forward and to ensure the people of the constituency. We
:56:00. > :56:00.have a very good mix of the people of the constituency. We
:56:01. > :56:09.priority, pushing the people of the constituency. We
:56:10. > :56:12.are talking about flags and planning permission and housing benefit
:56:13. > :56:19.issues. Very real issues that affect people. Are they talking about the
:56:20. > :56:22.geographic nature of that new super council? It is a large council. Is
:56:23. > :56:25.it possible that people living on either end of it will feel
:56:26. > :56:29.disconnected from other people? We either end of it will feel
:56:30. > :56:33.are the third guest council in Northern Ireland, after Belfast
:56:34. > :56:37.are the third guest council in Derry. It is a vast area.
:56:38. > :56:40.are the third guest council in key things is to make sure that
:56:41. > :56:44.local people have access to local representatives, and that there is
:56:45. > :56:49.local access. That is doing representatives, and that there is
:56:50. > :56:54.big thing for the new council. -- going to be. It is the biggest of
:56:55. > :57:00.the new super councils. What do you think of that geographical issue?
:57:01. > :57:05.How big an issue will that have on people as they connect with their
:57:06. > :57:09.new political representatives? There will always be a trade-off. It is
:57:10. > :57:14.incumbent on us as representatives to connect the council to people and
:57:15. > :57:18.be active in the community. My council has a big geographical
:57:19. > :57:31.spread. And I am therefore all of the people of Lisburn and
:57:32. > :57:35.Castlereagh. Do you think that City Hall is ready for your brand of
:57:36. > :57:39.green politics? People are looking for something different, looking for
:57:40. > :57:43.change, and bringing forward the politics of green politics, social
:57:44. > :57:46.justice and sustainability. Interesting to hear your thoughts.
:57:47. > :57:54.We wish you well. Let's hear more from Sheila Davidson
:57:55. > :58:03.and Gladys Ganiel. There is lots of optimism around,
:58:04. > :58:09.but there are also challenges. I would like to commend these three
:58:10. > :58:12.for their optimism going bald. I think that they might be
:58:13. > :58:22.underestimating the teething problems. -- for the optimism going
:58:23. > :58:29.forward. I think this is all well and good, but that is probably not
:58:30. > :58:33.quite enough. What is needed is leadership that goes beyond the
:58:34. > :58:37.mutual talents and respect and shows some grace and discourse about the
:58:38. > :58:40.common good and is willing to take that extra step to demonstrate to
:58:41. > :58:49.people what it might actually look like, to go beyond mutual respect, I
:58:50. > :58:55.suppose, just a more gracious way of speaking and talking with each
:58:56. > :58:59.other. The first job of every politician is to get re-elected.
:59:00. > :59:04.There was always a honeymoon period when you have just been elected and
:59:05. > :59:08.it can be very gracious. The challenge for these young people,
:59:09. > :59:12.and I am pleased to hear such wonderful, articulate and thoughtful
:59:13. > :59:19.considerations in what the problems are, and I hope that will affect
:59:20. > :59:22.what the solutions are, and that is what we will all be looking for, for
:59:23. > :59:38.you to give us some leadership, and deliver on that.
:59:39. > :59:41.The old adage says that 'manners maketh the man' and while we might
:59:42. > :59:45.now live in a more informal world, minding your Ps and Qs are still
:59:46. > :59:47.important to some - particularly those who tread the corridors
:59:48. > :59:51.As we discovered, the former Police Ombudsman, Baroness O'Loan, was
:59:52. > :59:54.in no mood for Jeffrey Donaldson's more casual approach to etiquette
:59:55. > :00:02.Baroness O'Loan director Jeffrey Donaldson with a smile on her face.
:00:03. > :00:07.There is a tendency to put women down. I doubt he would have done
:00:08. > :00:15.that to a man. She was quite right, but again, very gracious in how she
:00:16. > :00:20.dealt with it. Have you had a lot of learning to do over here? I have
:00:21. > :00:24.done a little bit of learning, we all need to be careful.
:00:25. > :00:39.Is enough being done to tackle extremism in schools?
:00:40. > :00:48.Will Mr Cameron stopped Mr Junker, will make
:00:49. > :01:11.we are joined by the founder of the Quilliam Association. If you read
:01:12. > :01:14.the Sunday Telegraph this morning, there is a real problem. If you read
:01:15. > :01:30.the Observer, there is not much of a problem. What is the situation in
:01:31. > :01:37.your view in Birmingham? Allegations are seen to be -- if music was not
:01:38. > :01:41.being taught as it should be. Instead of the rating the national
:01:42. > :01:44.holidays here during the Christmas period, children were sent off
:01:45. > :01:50.instead on religious pilgrimage to Mecca, then I think something is
:01:51. > :01:59.going on. From my knowledge, I know about some of the strategies to
:02:00. > :02:04.influence. These strategies are known as gradualism. The idea, like
:02:05. > :02:10.the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt is to join the institutions of society
:02:11. > :02:17.and influence from within -- from within. It is a gradual approach to
:02:18. > :02:23.Islamicisation society. We have seen that happening in other areas, such
:02:24. > :02:28.as the decision by the Law Society to call it shy and issue it out as
:02:29. > :02:31.guidance for solicitors. They are saying this means that women inherit
:02:32. > :02:40.half of what men saying this means that women inherit
:02:41. > :02:41.and adopted children do not get any inheritance. Apostates do not get
:02:42. > :02:45.any inheritance. These are guidelines being issued by the Law
:02:46. > :02:52.Society by Islamic. It is a medieval take on Islam. That is what is
:02:53. > :02:58.meant. We see the same names popping up again and again in different
:02:59. > :03:02.situations in Birmingham. Is it a planned infiltration? In my
:03:03. > :03:05.profession of you and planned infiltration? In my
:03:06. > :03:08.profession of you having spent 13 years on the leadership of an
:03:09. > :03:21.Islamist organisation, having been involved
:03:22. > :03:21.Islamist organisation, having been and setting up schools, I am very
:03:22. > :03:21.Islamist organisation, having been certain is a deliberate plan to
:03:22. > :03:26.influence the students of this country with a medieval
:03:27. > :03:29.interpretation of my own faith to bring about a medieval, conservative
:03:30. > :03:34.view, and enforce things like segregation on boys and girls within
:03:35. > :03:41.our public institutions. With these things be acceptable if they were
:03:42. > :03:47.explicitly they schools? If they were state. We had state Anglican
:03:48. > :03:52.faith schools. We have state Catholic faith schools as well.
:03:53. > :03:57.Would it be acceptable if these were state Islamic schools? That is a
:03:58. > :03:59.policy question. I am not generally in favour.
:04:00. > :04:07.policy question. I am not generally establishment. I am not a fan of
:04:08. > :04:11.faith schools. I do think the solution is to
:04:12. > :04:15.faith schools. I do think the these schools
:04:16. > :04:19.faith schools. I do think the communities and not being insular
:04:20. > :04:21.and looking inwards. It is very important. The Ofsted report is
:04:22. > :04:26.coming important. The Ofsted report is
:04:27. > :04:32.had a taste about what it is saying about some of the schools. Is it a
:04:33. > :04:39.serious problem? It is a very serious problem. It comes from the
:04:40. > :04:40.segregation of children into intensely populated areas where
:04:41. > :04:42.everyone is Muslim intensely populated areas where
:04:43. > :04:46.have to have a system intensely populated areas where
:04:47. > :04:49.children between schools. It very often happens, even with a secular
:04:50. > :04:53.school often happens, even with a secular
:04:54. > :04:54.Church of England schools become like-for-like schools and that
:04:55. > :04:58.leaves the rest like-for-like schools and that
:04:59. > :05:03.to become all of one faith. I think all of the parties are being quite
:05:04. > :05:07.hypocritical about the profound problem of continuing to have
:05:08. > :05:10.hypocritical about the profound schools. You have Orthodox Jewish
:05:11. > :05:14.schools with extraordinary dogma being taught. Indeed very strict
:05:15. > :05:19.Catholic schools with amazing dogma being taught. To somehow only get
:05:20. > :05:23.worried when it is Islamic, when it is Muslim schools, becomes a
:05:24. > :05:27.problem. You have to look at the whole issue and said the state
:05:28. > :05:29.problem. You have to look at the should simply withdraw from the
:05:30. > :05:41.business of faith education. Like France? Yes, a secular school. The
:05:42. > :05:46.business of faith education. Like overall government policy is to take
:05:47. > :05:51.power away. The dilemma with that is that it comes with dangers. Some
:05:52. > :05:54.schools will be incompetent and some schools will be more than
:05:55. > :05:58.incompetent, they will be maligned in some respects. The one bit of
:05:59. > :06:04.this policy which has never been entirely squared is how do you
:06:05. > :06:07.devolve and retain a basic minimum of educational standards and
:06:08. > :06:13.behavioural standards while doing it? There is an even deeper quandary
:06:14. > :06:16.for Britain. We have prided ourselves on allowing radical views
:06:17. > :06:21.that stop short of violence. We took on Karl Marx and the rest of Europe
:06:22. > :06:24.would not have him. The rest of Europe could not believe how
:06:25. > :06:28.tolerably well of radical preachers in the 1990s. Do we stick with that
:06:29. > :06:36.view? The risks were greater than they were 100 years ago. We do
:06:37. > :06:41.expect, whatever peoples faith, that our children, at the expense of the
:06:42. > :06:46.taxpayer, are educated, not instructed, not indoctrinated,
:06:47. > :06:49.educated. We do expect that and also that boys and girls are treated
:06:50. > :06:53.equally. One of the things the board in Birmingham will be looking at
:06:54. > :06:57.which has Andrew Mitchell on it, the former development Secretary,
:06:58. > :07:01.because he is a Birmingham MP full Sutton, they are really concerned
:07:02. > :07:06.about whether the girls are being treated as second-class citizens.
:07:07. > :07:11.There has been a lot of work done on empowerment of girls. Shirley
:07:12. > :07:15.Williams made the point that what Michael Gove has done by creating
:07:16. > :07:18.free schools and academies is undermined the work of local
:07:19. > :07:25.education authorities. They think they are traditional bodies which
:07:26. > :07:32.are not open to reform. One school in Birmingham which is accused of
:07:33. > :07:38.being in trouble is a local education school. They cannot have
:07:39. > :07:42.the other side. Under Michael Gove, they are answerable to the Secretary
:07:43. > :07:47.of State. It is down to Ofsted. Ofsted is giving the schools, not
:07:48. > :07:50.that long ago, outstanding marks. There are big questions about the
:07:51. > :07:55.oversight of schools. Tristan Hunt was trying to answer that point. By
:07:56. > :08:02.tapping it cannot all have gone pear shaped in two years. How do you
:08:03. > :08:09.think that will play out? -- it cannot have gone pear shaped. The
:08:10. > :08:13.story was broken in February. It will keep playing out. The report
:08:14. > :08:17.that was due out Ofsted is tomorrow or Monday. Then there is the other
:08:18. > :08:21.report that will look into wider questions, that will come out in
:08:22. > :08:31.July, I think. We are expecting two points. -- reports. We have to look
:08:32. > :08:36.at questions of Ofsted and other institutions in our society, even
:08:37. > :08:44.government departments, where idea of taxing non-violent extremism
:08:45. > :08:49.became a too boot in this country. -- a taboo. They must be rebuffed
:08:50. > :08:55.the challenge, as we would expect racism to be challenged. In the
:08:56. > :09:01.argument between Michael Gove and Theresa May, where do you side? They
:09:02. > :09:05.should be challenged openly and robust leap by civilian society. It
:09:06. > :09:14.was settled by the Prime Minister and is government policy. I had a
:09:15. > :09:23.hand in advising or consulting. I think Fiona Cunningham was forced to
:09:24. > :09:36.resign because what she did violates official government policy. It just
:09:37. > :09:46.has not been implemented yet. Will Mr Cameron succeed with Juncke?
:09:47. > :09:50.You'll agree he have to decide whether he will spirit at stopping
:09:51. > :09:54.him or accepting him as commission president and ask in return for a
:09:55. > :09:58.massive commission portfolio for Britain, something like the internal
:09:59. > :10:04.market, which they missed out on last time. It is a diplomatic
:10:05. > :10:10.decision he have to make. It is too late for that he is into deep. If he
:10:11. > :10:19.takes over the job, Cameron is left with egg on its face. From the
:10:20. > :10:21.beginning, he did not have his voice with the weight of the British
:10:22. > :10:29.Conservative Party, with ankle and Arkle, the rest of them. He is
:10:30. > :10:36.reaping -- Angela Merkel, the rest of them. He is reaping that reward.
:10:37. > :10:43.There is a lot of support within Europe. In Germany, there was a lot
:10:44. > :10:49.of opposition to David Cameron getting his way. I know him from
:10:50. > :10:53.Brussels. He is entertaining, you go to dinner with him and he smokes and
:10:54. > :10:57.drinks. He is entertaining but he is the most awful person you could
:10:58. > :11:01.think of having trying to sort of symbolise a new European Union. I
:11:02. > :11:04.remember I was there join the Luxembourg presidency in 2005 when
:11:05. > :11:07.the voters in France and the Netherlands voted no to the European
:11:08. > :11:13.constitution, what was his response to that? Let's carry on with the
:11:14. > :11:21.ratification process of this treaty that has been comprehensively
:11:22. > :11:25.rejected by voters. He did not say the final bit of that sentence. You
:11:26. > :11:29.can see why Eurosceptics want him. He has blown a raspy at all the
:11:30. > :11:31.people who have protested at the elections with the way the European
:11:32. > :11:54.Union is going. -- blown a Rasberry. This is your most popular... What
:11:55. > :12:07.has come in most recently is doing really well. This is yours. There we
:12:08. > :12:11.go. Cheers! By our people so cynical? They always go for a drink
:12:12. > :12:21.at 11am and they pull their own pipes. I see them every day. -- pts.
:12:22. > :12:25.Is there anything Mr Clegg can do is to mark the idea is to define
:12:26. > :12:30.clearly a liberal brand, or at least I hope it is. It is not good enough
:12:31. > :12:33.for us to say the Liberal Democrats challenge the Tories on this, on the
:12:34. > :12:38.fairer society, and challenge the Labour Party on a strong economy. We
:12:39. > :12:44.need to define what we stand for. That is what I call a liberal brand,
:12:45. > :12:47.assertive liberalism. I have been there myself and I think that is
:12:48. > :12:55.what he will be speaking about. Standing up for liberal values, to
:12:56. > :12:59.finding -- defining what they are. Disestablishment in getting younger
:13:00. > :13:04.people re-engage with politics. The overwhelming number are actually
:13:05. > :13:09.liberal. We only have about 20 seconds. I suggest to you it is too
:13:10. > :13:16.late. Sign up with the one principle on which he stood is Europe. -- the
:13:17. > :13:24.one principle on which he stood if Europe. That is why he has been
:13:25. > :13:28.doing so badly. He cannot get out of the hole he is in. If you fight
:13:29. > :13:30.three general elections to the left of Labour
:13:31. > :13:33.three general elections to the left are in coalition with the Tories,
:13:34. > :13:52.you have got a problem. I are in coalition with the Tories,
:13:53. > :13:54.back next week. Remember if it is Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics.