:00:39. > :00:41.It's Sunday morning, and this is the Sunday Politics.
:00:42. > :00:44.Theresa May will be the first foreign leader to visit US
:00:45. > :00:47.President Donald Trump this week - she's promised to hold "very
:00:48. > :00:50.frank" conversations with the new and controversial
:00:51. > :00:57.Speaking of the 45th President of America,
:00:58. > :01:00.we'll be looking at what the Trump presidency could hold
:01:01. > :01:06.in store for Britain and the rest of the world.
:01:07. > :01:09.And with the Supreme Court expected to say that Parliament should
:01:10. > :01:12.have a vote before the Brexit process begins, we'll ask
:01:13. > :01:27.A party, a property to the TV on the what Labour will do next.
:01:28. > :01:30.A party, a property to the TV on the election, the public inquiry into
:01:31. > :01:36.RHI and all the twists and turns of another roller-coaster week in local
:01:37. > :01:39.And to talk about all of that and more, I'm joined by three
:01:40. > :01:41.journalists who, in an era of so-called fake news, can be
:01:42. > :01:45.relied upon for their accuracy, their impartiality -
:01:46. > :01:48.and their willingness to come to the studio
:01:49. > :01:54.It's Steve Richards, Julia Hartley-Brewer
:01:55. > :02:01.and Tom Newton Dunn, and during the programme they'll be
:02:02. > :02:05.tweeting as often as the 45th President of the USA in the middle
:02:06. > :02:15.So - the Prime Minister has been appearing on the BBC this morning.
:02:16. > :02:17.She was mostly talking about Donald Trump and Brexit,
:02:18. > :02:20.but she was also asked about a story on the front of this
:02:21. > :02:24.It's reported that an unarmed Trident missile test fired
:02:25. > :02:30.from the submarine HMS Vengeance near the Florida coast in June
:02:31. > :02:39.The paper says the incident took place weeks before a crucial Commons
:02:40. > :02:43.Well, let's have listen to Theresa May talking
:02:44. > :02:48.The issue that we were talking about in the House of Commons
:02:49. > :02:52.It was about whether or not we should renew Trident,
:02:53. > :02:55.whether we should look to the future and have a replacement Trident.
:02:56. > :02:58.That's what we were talking about in the House of Commons.
:02:59. > :03:00.That's what the House of Commons voted for.
:03:01. > :03:06.He doesn't want to defend our country with an independent
:03:07. > :03:13.There are tests that take place all the time, regularly,
:03:14. > :03:21.What we were talking about in that debate that took place...
:03:22. > :03:29.I'm not going to get an answer to this.
:03:30. > :03:35.Tom, it was clear this was going to come up this morning. It is on the
:03:36. > :03:40.front page of the Sunday Times. It would seem to me the Prime Minister
:03:41. > :03:46.wasn't properly briefed on how to reply. I think she probably was, but
:03:47. > :03:49.the Prime Minister we now have doesn't necessarily answer all
:03:50. > :03:57.questions in the straightest way. She didn't answer that one and all.
:03:58. > :04:04.Unlike previous ones? She made it quite clear she was briefed. You
:04:05. > :04:09.read between the Theresa May lines. By simply not answering Andrew Marr
:04:10. > :04:13.four times, it is obvious she knew, and that she knew before she went
:04:14. > :04:19.into the House of Commons and urged everyone to renew the ?40 billion
:04:20. > :04:22.replacement programme. Of course it is an embarrassment, but does it
:04:23. > :04:29.have political legs? I don't think so. She didn't mislead the Commons.
:04:30. > :04:34.If she wanted to close it down, the answer should have been, these are
:04:35. > :04:37.matters of national security. There's nothing more important in
:04:38. > :04:44.that than our nuclear deterrent. I'm not prepared to talk about testing.
:04:45. > :04:49.End of. But she didn't. Maybe you should be briefing her. That's a
:04:50. > :04:55.good answer. She is an interesting interviewee. She shows it when she
:04:56. > :04:59.is nervous. She was transparently uneasy answering those questions,
:05:00. > :05:04.and the fact she didn't answer it definitively suggests she did know
:05:05. > :05:08.and didn't want to say it, and she answered awkwardly. But how wider
:05:09. > :05:13.point, that the House of Commons voted for the renewal of Trident,
:05:14. > :05:18.suggests to me that in the broader sweep of things, this will not run,
:05:19. > :05:25.because if there was another vote, I would suggest she'd win it again.
:05:26. > :05:29.But it is an embarrassment and she handled it with a transparent
:05:30. > :05:35.awkwardness. She said that the tests go on all the time, but not of the
:05:36. > :05:39.missiles. Does it not show that when the Prime Minister leaves her
:05:40. > :05:44.comfort zone of Home Office affairs or related matters, she often
:05:45. > :05:51.struggles. We've seen it under questioning from Mr Corbyn even, and
:05:52. > :05:55.we saw it again today. Absolutely. Tests of various aspects of the
:05:56. > :06:00.missiles go on all the time, but there's only been five since 2000.
:06:01. > :06:04.What you described wouldn't have worked, because in previous tests
:06:05. > :06:12.they have always been very public about it. Look how well our missiles
:06:13. > :06:20.work! She may not have misled Parliament, but she may not have
:06:21. > :06:25.known about it. If she didn't know, does Michael Fallon still have a job
:06:26. > :06:31.on Monday? Should Parliament know about a test that doesn't work? Some
:06:32. > :06:37.would say absolutely not. Our deterrent is there to deter people
:06:38. > :06:42.from attacking us. If they know that we are hitting the United States by
:06:43. > :06:47.mistake rather than the Atlantic Ocean, then... There is such a thing
:06:48. > :06:53.as national security, and telling all the bad guys about where we are
:06:54. > :06:57.going wrong may not be a good idea. It was her first statement as Prime
:06:58. > :07:02.Minister to put her case for renewal, to have the vote on
:07:03. > :07:06.Trident, and in that context, it is significant not to say anything. If
:07:07. > :07:10.anyone knows where the missile landed, give us a call!
:07:11. > :07:12.So Donald Trump's inauguration day closed with him dancing
:07:13. > :07:15.to Frank Sinatra's My Way, and whatever your view on the 45th
:07:16. > :07:18.President of the United States he certainly did do it his way.
:07:19. > :07:20.Not for him the idealistic call for national unity -
:07:21. > :07:22.instead he used Friday's inaugural address to launch a blistering
:07:23. > :07:26.attack on the dark state of the nation and the political
:07:27. > :07:30.class, and to promise to take his uncompromising approach
:07:31. > :07:34.from the campaign trail to the White House.
:07:35. > :07:38.Here's Adam Fleming, with a reminder of how
:07:39. > :07:46.First, dropping by for a cup of tea and a slightly awkward exchange
:07:47. > :07:55.Then, friends, foes and predecessors watched
:07:56. > :08:02.I, Donald John Trump, do solemnly swear...
:08:03. > :08:07.The crowds seemed smaller than previous inaugurations,
:08:08. > :08:11.the speech tougher then any previous incoming president.
:08:12. > :08:18.From this day forth, it's going to be only America first.
:08:19. > :08:43.In the meantime, there were sporadic protests in Washington, DC.
:08:44. > :08:47.Opponents made their voices heard around the world too.
:08:48. > :08:49.The President, who'd criticised the work of
:08:50. > :08:54.the intelligence agencies, fitted in a visit to the CIA.
:08:55. > :08:57.There is nobody that feels stronger about the intelligence community
:08:58. > :09:09.And, back at the office, in the dark, a signature signalled
:09:10. > :09:15.the end of the Obama era and the dawn of Trump.
:09:16. > :09:21.So, as you heard there, President Trump used his
:09:22. > :09:24.inauguration to repeat his campaign promise to put "America first"
:09:25. > :09:27.in all his decisions, and offered some hints of what to expect
:09:28. > :09:43.He talked of in America in carnage, to be rebuilt by American hands and
:09:44. > :09:47.American Labour. President Trump has already started to dismantle key
:09:48. > :09:52.parts of the Obama Legacy, including the unwinding of the affordable care
:09:53. > :09:57.act, and the siding of the climate action plan to tackle global
:09:58. > :10:02.warning. Little to say about foreign policy, but promised to eradicate
:10:03. > :10:06.Islamic terrorism from the face of the Earth, insisting he would
:10:07. > :10:12.restore the US military to unquestioning dominance. He also
:10:13. > :10:16.said the US would develop a state missile defence system to deal with
:10:17. > :10:22.threats he sees from Iran and North Korea. In a statement that painted a
:10:23. > :10:27.bleak picture of the country he now runs, he said his would be a law and
:10:28. > :10:32.order Administration, and he would keep the innocents safe by building
:10:33. > :10:38.the border war with Mexico. One thing he didn't mention, for the
:10:39. > :10:40.first time ever, there is a Eurosceptic in the oval office, who
:10:41. > :10:43.is also an enthusiast for Brexit. We're joined now by Ted Malloch -
:10:44. > :10:47.he's a Trump supporter who's been tipped as the president's
:10:48. > :10:48.choice for US ambassador to the EU, and he's
:10:49. > :10:51.just flown back from Washington. And by James Rubin -
:10:52. > :11:02.he's a democrat who served Let's start with that last point I
:11:03. > :11:09.made in the voice over there. We now have a Eurosceptic in the oval
:11:10. > :11:12.office. He is pro-Brexit and not keen on further European Union
:11:13. > :11:18.integration. What are the implications of that? First of all,
:11:19. > :11:24.a renewal of the US- UK special relationship. You see the Prime
:11:25. > :11:28.Minister already going to build and rebuild this relationship. Already,
:11:29. > :11:33.the bust of Winston Churchill is back in the oval office.
:11:34. > :11:37.Interestingly, Martin Luther King's bust is also there, so there is an
:11:38. > :11:44.act of unity in that first movement of dusts. Donald Trump will be
:11:45. > :11:54.oriented between bilateral relationships and not multilateral
:11:55. > :12:00.or supernatural. Supranational full. What are the implications of someone
:12:01. > :12:05.in the White House now not believing in it? I think we are present in the
:12:06. > :12:10.unravelling of America's leadership of the West. There is now a thing
:12:11. > :12:18.called the west that America has led since the end of World War II,
:12:19. > :12:26.creating supranational - we just heard supernatural! These
:12:27. > :12:31.institutions were created. With American leadership, the world was
:12:32. > :12:35.at peace in Europe, and the world grew increasingly democratic and
:12:36. > :12:40.prosperous. Wars were averted that could be extremely costly. When
:12:41. > :12:44.something works in diplomacy, you don't really understand what the
:12:45. > :12:48.consequences could have been. I think we've got complacent. The new
:12:49. > :12:54.president is taking advantage of that. It is a terrible tragedy that
:12:55. > :12:59.so many in the West take for granted the successful leadership and
:13:00. > :13:07.institutions we have built. You could argue, as James Rubin has
:13:08. > :13:12.argued in some articles, that... Will Mr Trump's America be more
:13:13. > :13:19.involved in the world than the Obama won? Or will it continue the process
:13:20. > :13:25.with running shoes on that began with Mr Obama? President Obama
:13:26. > :13:31.stepped back from American leadership. He withdrew from the
:13:32. > :13:35.world. He had a horrendous eight years in office, and American powers
:13:36. > :13:40.have diminished everywhere in the world, not just in Europe. That
:13:41. > :13:45.power will reassert. The focus will be on America first, but there are
:13:46. > :13:51.foreign interests around the world... How does it reassert itself
:13:52. > :13:55.around the world? I think the institutions will be recreated. Some
:13:56. > :14:01.may be taken down. There could be some new ones. I think Nato itself,
:14:02. > :14:05.and certainly the Defence Secretary will have discussions with Donald
:14:06. > :14:09.Trump about how Nato can be reshaped, and maybe there will be
:14:10. > :14:14.more burden sharing. That is an important thing for him. You are
:14:15. > :14:19.tipped to be the US ambassador to Brussels, to the EU, and we are
:14:20. > :14:23.still waiting to hear if that will happen. Is it true to say that Mr
:14:24. > :14:33.Trump does not believe in EU integration? I think you made that
:14:34. > :14:41.clear in the speech. He talked about supranational. He does not believe
:14:42. > :14:45.in those kinds of organisations. He is investing himself in bilateral
:14:46. > :14:50.relationships, the first of which will be with the UK. So we have a
:14:51. > :14:56.president who does not believe in EU integration and has been highly
:14:57. > :15:01.critical of Nato. Do the people he has appointed to defend, Secretary
:15:02. > :15:06.of State, national security, do you think that will temper this
:15:07. > :15:13.anti-NATO wretched? Will he come round to a more pro-NATO situation?
:15:14. > :15:18.I think those of us who care about America's situation in the world
:15:19. > :15:23.will come in to miss President Obama a lot. I think the Secretary of
:15:24. > :15:29.State and the faculty of defence will limit the damage and will urge
:15:30. > :15:33.him not to take formal steps to unravel this most powerful and most
:15:34. > :15:40.successful alliance in history, the Nato alliance. But the damage is
:15:41. > :15:44.already being done. When you are the leader of the West, leadership means
:15:45. > :15:50.you are persuading, encouraging, bolstering your leadership and these
:15:51. > :15:54.institutions by the way you speak. Millions, if not hundreds of
:15:55. > :15:56.millions of people, have now heard the US say that what they care about
:15:57. > :16:06.is within their borders. What do you say to that? It is such
:16:07. > :16:15.an overstatement. The point is that Donald Trump is in a Jacksonian
:16:16. > :16:18.tradition of national populism. He is appealing to the people first.
:16:19. > :16:24.The other day, I was sitting below this page during the address, and he
:16:25. > :16:28.said, everyone sitting behind me as part of the problem. Everyone in
:16:29. > :16:32.front of me, the crowd and the crowd on television, is part of the
:16:33. > :16:36.solution, so we are giving the Government back to the people. That
:16:37. > :16:39.emphasis is going to change American life, including American
:16:40. > :16:48.International relations. It doesn't moving the leak back -- it doesn't
:16:49. > :16:53.mean we are moving out of Nato, it simply means we will put our
:16:54. > :16:57.national interests first. There were echoes of Andrew Jackson's
:16:58. > :17:02.inauguration address of 1820. That night, the Jacksonians trashed the
:17:03. > :17:05.White House, but Mr Trump's people didn't do that, so there is a
:17:06. > :17:11.difference there. He also said something else in the address - that
:17:12. > :17:18.protectionism would lead to prosperity. I would suggest there is
:17:19. > :17:24.no evidence for that in the post-war world. He talked about protecting
:17:25. > :17:27.the American worker, American jobs, the American economy. I actually
:17:28. > :17:34.think that Donald Trump will not turn out to be a protectionist. If
:17:35. > :17:40.you read the heart of the deal... This is referring to two Republican
:17:41. > :17:49.senators who introduce massive tariffs in the Hoover
:17:50. > :17:54.administration. Exactly. If you read The Art Of The Deal, you will see
:17:55. > :17:57.how Donald Trump deals with individuals and countries. There is
:17:58. > :18:03.a lot of bluster, positioning, and I think you already see this in
:18:04. > :18:07.bringing jobs by the United States. Things are going to change. Let's
:18:08. > :18:14.also deal with this proposition. China is the biggest loser of this
:18:15. > :18:21.election result. Let me say this: The first time in American history
:18:22. > :18:29.and American president has set forth his view of the world, and it is a
:18:30. > :18:33.mercantile view of the world, who makes more money, who gets more
:18:34. > :18:38.trade, it doesn't look at the shared values, leadership and defends the
:18:39. > :18:41.world needs. The art of the deal has no application to America's
:18:42. > :18:46.leadership of the world, that's what we're learning. You can be a great
:18:47. > :18:51.businessman and make great real estate deals - whether he did not is
:18:52. > :18:55.debatable - but it has nothing to do with inspiring shared values from
:18:56. > :18:59.the West. You saying China may lose, because he may pressure them to
:19:00. > :19:06.reduce their trade deficit with the US. They may or may not. We may both
:19:07. > :19:10.lose. Right now, his Secretary of State has said, and I think he will
:19:11. > :19:14.walk this back when he is brief, that they will prevent the Chinese
:19:15. > :19:18.from entering these islands in the South China Sea. If they were to do
:19:19. > :19:23.that, it would be a blockade, and there would be a shooting war
:19:24. > :19:27.between the United States and China, so US - China relations are the most
:19:28. > :19:31.important bilateral relationship of the United States, and they don't
:19:32. > :19:35.lend themselves to the bluff and bluster that may have worked when
:19:36. > :19:40.you are trying to get a big building on second Ave in Manhattan. Is China
:19:41. > :19:57.the biggest loser? I think the Chinese have a lot to lose. Gigi and
:19:58. > :20:02.Ping was in Davos this week -- Xi Jin Ping was in Davos.
:20:03. > :20:08.Is Germany the second biggest loser in the sense that I understand he
:20:09. > :20:16.hasn't agreed time to see Angela Merkel yet, also that those close to
:20:17. > :20:19.him believe that Germany is guilty of currency manipulation by adopting
:20:20. > :20:23.a weak your row instead of the strong Deutschmark, and that that is
:20:24. > :20:29.why they are running a huge balance of payments surplus with the United
:20:30. > :20:35.States. American - German relations may not be great. There is a point
:20:36. > :20:38.of view throughout Europe. You only have to talk to the southern
:20:39. > :20:42.Europeans about this question. It seems like the euro has been aligned
:20:43. > :20:48.to benefit Germany. Joe Stiglitz, the famous left of centre Democrat
:20:49. > :20:55.economist, made the same case in a recent book. In this case, I think
:20:56. > :21:00.Germany will be put under the spotlight. Angela Merkel has shown
:21:01. > :21:05.herself to be the most respected and the most successful leader in
:21:06. > :21:09.Europe. We who care about the West, who care about the shared values of
:21:10. > :21:14.the West, should pray and hope that she is re-elected. This isn't about
:21:15. > :21:19.dollars and cents. We're living in a time whether Russian leader has
:21:20. > :21:25.another country in Europe and for some inexplicable reason, the
:21:26. > :21:28.American president, who can use his insult diplomacy on everyone,
:21:29. > :21:34.including Mrs Merkel, the only person he can't seem to find
:21:35. > :21:38.anything to criticise about is Mr Putin. There are things more
:21:39. > :21:42.important than the actual details of your currency. There are things like
:21:43. > :21:45.preventing another war in Europe, preventing a war between the Chinese
:21:46. > :21:52.and the US. You talk about the Trident missile all morning, nuclear
:21:53. > :21:57.deterrence is extremely important. It doesn't lend itself to the bluff
:21:58. > :22:00.and bluster of a real estate deal. I understand all that, but the fact we
:22:01. > :22:05.are even talking about these things shows the new world we are moving
:22:06. > :22:09.into. I'd like to get you both to react to this. This is a man that
:22:10. > :22:17.ended the Bush Dynasty, a man that beat the Clinton machine. In his
:22:18. > :22:19.inauguration, not only did he not reach out to the Democrats, he
:22:20. > :22:26.didn't even mention the Republicans. These are changed days for us. They
:22:27. > :22:30.are, and change can be good or disastrous. I'm worried that it's
:22:31. > :22:36.easy in the world of diplomacy and in them -- for the leadership of the
:22:37. > :22:40.United States to break relationships and ruin alliances. These are things
:22:41. > :22:48.that were carefully nurtured. George Schultz, the American Secretary of
:22:49. > :22:51.State under Reagan talked about gardening, the slow, careful
:22:52. > :22:56.creation of a place with bilateral relationships that were blossoming
:22:57. > :22:59.and flowering multilateral relationships that take decades to
:23:00. > :23:05.create, and he will throw them away in a matter of days. The final
:23:06. > :23:09.word... I work for George Schultz. He was a Marine who stood up
:23:10. > :23:13.America, defended America, who would be in favour of many of the things
:23:14. > :23:19.that Donald Trump and the tramp Administration... Give him a call.
:23:20. > :23:23.His top aide macs that I've spoken to are appalled by Mr Trump's
:23:24. > :23:31.abdication of leadership. He is going to our radically -- he's going
:23:32. > :23:36.to eradicate extremist Islam from the face of the year. Is that
:23:37. > :23:40.realistic? I know people in the national security realm have worked
:23:41. > :23:46.on a plan. They say they will have such a plan in some detail within 90
:23:47. > :23:52.days. Lets hope they succeed. We have run out of time. As a issues.
:23:53. > :23:55.Thank you, both. -- fascinating issues.
:23:56. > :23:58.So Theresa May promised a big speech on Brexit, and this week -
:23:59. > :24:00.perhaps against expectation - she delivered, trying to answer
:24:01. > :24:03.claims that the government didn't have a plan with an explicit
:24:04. > :24:06.wish-list of what she hopes to achieve in negotiations with the EU.
:24:07. > :24:08.To her allies it was ambitious, bold, optimistic -
:24:09. > :24:10.to her opponents it was full of contradictions
:24:11. > :24:14.Here's Adam again, with a reminder of the speech and how
:24:15. > :24:19.There are speeches, and there are speeches.
:24:20. > :24:22.Like Theresa May's 12 principles for a Brexit deal leading
:24:23. > :24:25.to the UK fully out of the EU but still friendly in terms
:24:26. > :24:29.This agreement should allow for the freest possible trade
:24:30. > :24:32.in goods and services between Britain and the EU's member states.
:24:33. > :24:37.It should give British companies the maximum
:24:38. > :24:40.operate within European markets and let European businesses do
:24:41. > :24:49.She also said no deal would be better than the wrong deal,
:24:50. > :25:04.We want to test what people think about what she's just said.
:25:05. > :25:07.Do we have any of our future negotiating
:25:08. > :25:11.As the European Parliament voted for its new
:25:12. > :25:19.president, its chief negotiator sounded off.
:25:20. > :25:21.Saying, OK, if our European counterparts don't accept
:25:22. > :25:24.it, we're going to make from Britain a sort
:25:25. > :25:27.of free zone or tax haven, I
:25:28. > :25:33.The Prime Minister of Malta, the country that's assumed the EU's
:25:34. > :25:36.rotating presidency, spoke in sorrow and a bit of anger.
:25:37. > :25:40.We want a fair deal for the United Kingdom, but
:25:41. > :25:50.that deal necessarily needs to be inferior to membership.
:25:51. > :25:53.Next, let's hear from some enthusiastic
:25:54. > :25:58.leavers, like, I don't know, the Daily Mail?
:25:59. > :26:01.The paper lapped it up with this adoring front page.
:26:02. > :26:05.For Brexiteers, it was all manna from heaven.
:26:06. > :26:08.I think today means we are a big step closer to becoming
:26:09. > :26:10.an independent country again, with control of our own laws,
:26:11. > :26:17.I was chuckling at some of it, to be honest, because
:26:18. > :26:21.There were various phrases there which I've used myself again and
:26:22. > :26:25.Do we have any of those so-called Remoaners?
:26:26. > :26:27.There will, at the end of this deal process,
:26:28. > :26:31.so politicians get to vote on the stitch-up, but
:26:32. > :26:34.We take the view as Liberal Democrats that
:26:35. > :26:36.if this process started with democracy last June,
:26:37. > :26:40.We trusted the people with departure, we must trust them
:26:41. > :26:47.Do we have anyone from Labour, or are you all
:26:48. > :26:49.watching it in a small room somewhere?
:26:50. > :26:56.Throughout the speech, there seemed to be an implied threat that
:26:57. > :26:59.somewhere along the line, if all her optimism of a deal
:27:00. > :27:01.with the European Union didn't work, we would move
:27:02. > :27:03.into a low-tax, corporate taxation, bargain-basement economy on the
:27:04. > :27:07.I think she needs to be a bit clearer about what
:27:08. > :27:14.The Labour leader suggested he'd tell
:27:15. > :27:17.his MPs to vote in favour of starting a Brexit process if
:27:18. > :27:19.Parliament was given the choice, sparking a mini pre-revolt among
:27:20. > :27:25.Finally, do we have anyone from big business here?
:27:26. > :27:34.Of course, your all in Davos at the World Economic
:27:35. > :27:44.Clarity, first of all, really codified what many of us have been
:27:45. > :27:46.anticipating since the referendum result,
:27:47. > :27:47.particularly around the
:27:48. > :27:51.I think what we've also seen today is the Government's
:27:52. > :27:55.willingness to put a bit of edge into the negotiating dynamic, and I
:27:56. > :27:59.Trade negotiations are negotiations, and you have to lay out, and you
:28:00. > :28:02.have to be pretty tough to get what you want.
:28:03. > :28:04.Although some business people on the slopes speculated
:28:05. > :28:06.about moving some of their operations out of Brexit Britain.
:28:07. > :28:24.We saw there the instant reaction of Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn,
:28:25. > :28:27.but how will the party respond to the challenge posed by Brexit
:28:28. > :28:31.Well, I'm joined now by the Shadow Home Secretary, Diane Abbott.
:28:32. > :28:40.People know that Ukip and the Tories are for Brexit. The Lib Dems are
:28:41. > :28:44.four remain. What is Labour for? For respecting the result of the
:28:45. > :28:49.referendum. It was a 72% turnout, very high for an election of that
:28:50. > :28:52.nature, and we believe you have to respect that result. You couldn't
:28:53. > :28:57.have a situation where people like Tim Farron are saying to people,
:28:58. > :29:00.millions of people, sorry, you got it wrong, we in London no better.
:29:01. > :29:07.However, how the Tories go forward from here has to be subject to
:29:08. > :29:12.parliamentary scrutiny. Is it Shadow Cabinet policy to vote for the
:29:13. > :29:16.triggering of Article 50? Our policy is not to block Article 50. That is
:29:17. > :29:23.what the leader was saying this morning. So are you for it? Our
:29:24. > :29:28.policy is not to block it. You are talking about voting for it. We
:29:29. > :29:33.don't know what the Supreme Court is going to say, and we don't know what
:29:34. > :29:36.legislation Government will bring forward, and we don't know what
:29:37. > :29:43.amendment we will move, but we're clear that we will not vote to block
:29:44. > :29:51.it. OK, so you won't bow to stop it, but you could abstain? No, what we
:29:52. > :29:55.will do... Either you vote for or against all you abstain. There are
:29:56. > :29:59.too many unanswered questions. For instance, the position of EU
:30:00. > :30:03.migrants working and living in this country. You may not get the answer
:30:04. > :30:07.to that before Article 50 comes before the Commons, so what would
:30:08. > :30:12.you do then? We are giving to amend it. We can only tell you exactly how
:30:13. > :30:16.we will amend it when we understand what sort of legislation the
:30:17. > :30:19.Government is putting forward, and in the course of moving those
:30:20. > :30:24.amendments, we will ask the questions that the people of Britain
:30:25. > :30:29.whether they voted to leave remain want answered.
:30:30. > :30:37.When you come to a collective view, will there be a three line whip? I
:30:38. > :30:42.can't tell you, because we have not seen the government 's legislation.
:30:43. > :30:48.But when you see it, you will come to a collective view. Many regard
:30:49. > :30:53.this as extremely important. Will there be a three line whip on
:30:54. > :30:59.Labour's collective view? Because it is important, we shouldn't get ahead
:31:00. > :31:03.of ourselves. When we see what the Supreme Court says, and crucially,
:31:04. > :31:07.when we see what the government position is, you will hear what the
:31:08. > :31:14.whipping is. Will shadow ministers be able to defy any three line whip
:31:15. > :31:20.on this? That is not normally the case. But they did on an early vote
:31:21. > :31:25.that the government introduced on Article 50. Those who voted against
:31:26. > :31:30.it are still there. In the Blair years, you certainly couldn't defy a
:31:31. > :31:36.three line whip. We will see what happens going forward. I remember
:31:37. > :31:39.when the Tories were hopelessly divided over the EU. All these
:31:40. > :31:46.Maastricht votes and an list arguments. Now it is Labour. Just
:31:47. > :31:58.another symptom of Mr Corbyn's poor leadership. Not at all. Two thirds
:31:59. > :32:03.voted to leave, a third to remain. We are seeking to bring the country
:32:04. > :32:09.and the party together. We will do that by pointing out how disastrous
:32:10. > :32:18.a Tory Brexit would be. Meanwhile, around 80 Labour MPs will defy a
:32:19. > :32:23.three line whip. It's too early to say that. Will you publish what you
:32:24. > :32:28.believe the negotiating goal should be? We are clear on it. We think
:32:29. > :32:34.that the economy, jobs and living standards should be the priority.
:32:35. > :32:36.What Theresa May is saying is that holding her party together is her
:32:37. > :32:40.What Theresa May is saying is that holding her party together is her
:32:41. > :32:47.priority. She is putting party above country. Does Labour think we should
:32:48. > :32:51.remain members of the single market? Ideally, in terms of jobs and the
:32:52. > :32:56.economy, of course. Ritt -ish business thinks that as well. Is
:32:57. > :33:01.Labour policy that we should remain a member of the single market?
:33:02. > :33:05.Labour leaves that jobs and the economy comes first, and if they
:33:06. > :33:12.come first, you would want to remain part of the single market. But to
:33:13. > :33:19.remain a member? Jobs and the economy comes first, and to do that,
:33:20. > :33:24.ideally, guess. So with that, comes free movement of people, the
:33:25. > :33:30.jurisdiction of the European, and a multi-million never shipped thief.
:33:31. > :33:36.Is Labour prepared to pay that? Money is neither here nor there.
:33:37. > :33:44.Because the Tories will be asked to pay a lot of money... The EU has
:33:45. > :33:52.made it clear that you cannot have... I am asking for Labour's
:33:53. > :33:57.position. Our position is rooted in the reality, and the reality is that
:33:58. > :34:01.you cannot have the benefits of the member of the European Union,
:34:02. > :34:04.including being a member of the single market, without
:34:05. > :34:08.responsibility, including free movement of people. Free movement,
:34:09. > :34:17.is remaining under the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice. Is
:34:18. > :34:22.that the Labour position? You've said that Labour wants to remain a
:34:23. > :34:26.member of the single market. That is the price tag that comes with it.
:34:27. > :34:32.Does Labour agree with paying that price tag? We are not pre-empting
:34:33. > :34:37.negotiation. Our goals are protect jobs and the British economy. Is it
:34:38. > :34:46.Labour's position that we remain a member of the customs union? Well,
:34:47. > :34:56.if we don't, I don't see how Theresa May can keep our promises and has
:34:57. > :35:05.unfettered access... You said Labour's position was clear. It is!
:35:06. > :35:10.It is clear that Theresa May... I am not asking about Theresa May. Is it
:35:11. > :35:17.Labour's position to remain a member of the customs union? It is Labour's
:35:18. > :35:21.position to do what is right for British industry. Depending on how
:35:22. > :35:26.the negotiations go, it may prove that coming out of the customs
:35:27. > :35:31.union, as Theresa May has indicated she wants to do, could prove
:35:32. > :35:37.catastrophic, and could actually destroy some of her promises. You do
:35:38. > :35:44.accept that if we are member of the customs union, we cannot do our own
:35:45. > :35:50.free trade deals? What free trade deals are you talking about? The
:35:51. > :35:55.ones that Labour might want to do in the future. First, we have to
:35:56. > :36:00.protect British jobs and British industries. If you are talking about
:36:01. > :36:04.free trade deals with Donald Trump, the danger is that Theresa May will
:36:05. > :36:11.get drawn into a free-trade deal with America that will open up the
:36:12. > :36:17.NHS to American corporate... The cards are in Theresa May's hands. If
:36:18. > :36:21.she takes us out of the single market, if she takes us out of the
:36:22. > :36:26.customs union, we will have to deal with that. How big a crisis for
:36:27. > :36:32.Jeremy Corbyn will be if Labour loses both by-elections in February.
:36:33. > :36:41.I don't believe we will lose both. But if he did? I am not anticipating
:36:42. > :36:45.that. Is Labour lost two seats in a midterm of a Tory government, would
:36:46. > :36:49.that be business as usual? I'm not prepared to see us lose those seats,
:36:50. > :36:53.so I will not talk about something that will not happen. Thank you.
:36:54. > :36:54.You're watching the Sunday Politics.
:36:55. > :36:56.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now
:36:57. > :37:00.Coming up here in 20 minutes, The Week Ahead,
:37:01. > :37:02.when we'll be talking to Business Minister Margot James
:37:03. > :37:05.about the government's new industrial strategy and that
:37:06. > :37:08.crucial Supreme Court ruling on Brexit.
:37:09. > :37:20.First, though, the Sunday Politics where you are.
:37:21. > :37:22.Hello and welcome to Sunday Politics in Northern Ireland.
:37:23. > :37:24.By any standard it's been a momentous political week here.
:37:25. > :37:27.The local parties are preparing for a snap election -
:37:28. > :37:33.of electoral politics and there IS to be a public inquiry
:37:34. > :37:37.So what do the smaller parties make of the pace of political change?
:37:38. > :37:40.We'll hear from Steven Agnew, the leader of the Green Party,
:37:41. > :37:43.Eamonn McCann from People before Profit and the TUV's Stephen Cooper.
:37:44. > :37:45.And with their thoughts on a fast-changing political
:37:46. > :37:48.landscape, my guests of the day are Allison Morris from the Irish
:37:49. > :38:04.Hello - there's been no shortage of politically significant weeks
:38:05. > :38:07.here in recent years - but there have been few with as many
:38:08. > :38:10.twists and turns as we've seen in the last seven days.
:38:11. > :38:13.We'll hear what Allison Morris and Pete Shirlow make of it
:38:14. > :38:15.all in just a moment - but first, could we squeeze
:38:16. > :38:17.everything that happened this week into 60 seconds?
:38:18. > :38:36.Thursday the 2nd of March... This is the way the Assembly ends. You know,
:38:37. > :38:43.not with a bang but with a sort of whimpering diminuendo of interest.
:38:44. > :38:46.Time is short. To move any sort of inquiry I would have to be an
:38:47. > :38:49.Assembly next week. The only possible if public inquiry. We very
:38:50. > :38:53.much welcome the change of heart from Sinn Fein and we will get due
:38:54. > :38:59.process in and around these matters and we will get to the truth.
:39:00. > :39:02.Obviously I will not be ever again an elected representative but I
:39:03. > :39:09.would hope that I will have a key role to play in terms of continuing
:39:10. > :39:13.to build support for a peace process, build support for unity. I
:39:14. > :39:20.can say thank you to him honestly and thank humbly -- honestly I wait
:39:21. > :39:24.and recognise that the remarkable journey that Martin McGuinness went
:39:25. > :39:26.on as not only save lives but made countless people's lies in Northern
:39:27. > :39:33.Ireland better because of the partnership government that we
:39:34. > :39:34.worked on. That was the political week that
:39:35. > :39:36.was. Let's hear the thoughts
:39:37. > :39:47.of my guests. You says he emerged from this crisis
:39:48. > :39:49.unscathed. Do you remember so much significance happening so
:39:50. > :39:53.concentrated a time? Not at all. Earlier this week, I did a political
:39:54. > :39:57.review for a website, a review of the year so far. Can you imagine
:39:58. > :40:00.that in the third week of January? But it was quite appropriate, there
:40:01. > :40:07.was so much to talk about. In 17 years I have been a journalist, I
:40:08. > :40:10.can you imagine that in the third week of January? But it was quite
:40:11. > :40:13.appropriate, there was so much to talk about. In 17 years I have been
:40:14. > :40:16.a journalist, I cannot member any week like it. On Friday, the three
:40:17. > :40:18.events that happened, any one of them would have been a front page
:40:19. > :40:21.news story and we were left to decide between which one we would
:40:22. > :40:23.put to the front. I think it has been an absolutely mad and shocking
:40:24. > :40:25.weekend in some ways quite depressing. Politically.
:40:26. > :40:27.I think the good have filled this edition of Sunday Politics with any
:40:28. > :40:30.one of those men stories under normal circumstances, Pete. Let's
:40:31. > :40:33.take one to get us started. Those warm words from Ian Paisley about
:40:34. > :40:39.Martin McGuinness on Thursday night. Will they help or hinder the DUP in
:40:40. > :40:45.the run-up to the election? It is interesting because it earlier on,
:40:46. > :40:48.Martin McGuinness, you very -- Martin McGuinness said he very
:40:49. > :40:52.rarely heard members of the DUP talking about reconciliation within
:40:53. > :40:55.a few minutes later you had this much more magnanimous conversation
:40:56. > :40:58.with Ian Paisley Jr. That is all fine and well as one of the things
:40:59. > :41:01.that have happened in the Assembly is there in many ways much better
:41:02. > :41:05.relationships than 20 years ago. We would hope they would be better
:41:06. > :41:08.nearly 20 years after the establishment of the Assembly! The
:41:09. > :41:11.point about this is the conflict transformation is not just about
:41:12. > :41:17.making friends but it means much, much more. For example, we live in a
:41:18. > :41:21.highly segregated society. For arguments sake, let's say it would
:41:22. > :41:25.cost ?400 million, we are spending that amount of money on segregated
:41:26. > :41:31.education and segregated housing. That is a much bigger scandal within
:41:32. > :41:34.our society. What that tells us is that this type of scandal, with this
:41:35. > :41:39.sort of corruption, brings down the Assembly. But the fact that we are
:41:40. > :41:42.spending vast amounts of money on a segregated, sectarian society does
:41:43. > :41:45.not tell those that we have not lived that our forward in 20 years,
:41:46. > :41:52.never mind magnanimous words or otherwise. What about the
:41:53. > :41:56.significance of Martin O'Neill talking about fitting of a public
:41:57. > :42:01.inquiry, which was a U-turn, because earlier that day Declan of Sinn Fein
:42:02. > :42:05.was arguing on radio Ulster demerits of doing precisely that. They have
:42:06. > :42:11.been arguing about it for the past six or seven weeks then be public
:42:12. > :42:14.inquiry was not that for purpose. Penzing at lunchtime and then you
:42:15. > :42:17.assume that that statement that Mairtin O Muilleoir but it must have
:42:18. > :42:21.taken about one and a half hours to read so in the space of half an
:42:22. > :42:24.hour, they changed policy or Declan was not briefed. Why did they not
:42:25. > :42:28.call it several weeks ago and maybe we could have saved the political
:42:29. > :42:32.institutions? If they were going to eventually do turn their position,
:42:33. > :42:36.why was this not call them? Why did Claire Sugden not call it? Why did
:42:37. > :42:39.somebody not take some sort of action to save the political
:42:40. > :42:43.institutions, instead of doing it now because it is looking cynical,
:42:44. > :42:48.then we are taking steps to change this. I think he wanted to take that
:42:49. > :42:51.Simon Hamilton at that stage. Very briefly, it has been called right at
:42:52. > :42:57.the end of this mandate, because they are now heading towards an
:42:58. > :43:01.election on March the 2nd, is it too little too late? First of all, for
:43:02. > :43:04.those of us not as close to the establishment, the question of why
:43:05. > :43:09.this is happening, this inquiry comfort the day before we started
:43:10. > :43:13.the programme about the historical abuse inquiry. This was a major
:43:14. > :43:18.initiative by the Assembly which has been buried in this big's news, a
:43:19. > :43:21.really emotional situation. People who have had traumatic experiences,
:43:22. > :43:24.who really need help and care and that is submerged within this tittle
:43:25. > :43:29.tattle, who said what, who did what? It shows you the lack of function
:43:30. > :43:32.within the Assembly at times. OK, we will hear a lot more from both of
:43:33. > :43:33.you later in the programme. Thank you very much.
:43:34. > :43:36.Let's hear now from Stephen Agnew, the leader of the Green Party,
:43:37. > :43:38.Eammon McCann from People Before Profit
:43:39. > :43:41.and Councillor Stephen Cooper from the TUV.
:43:42. > :43:47.Welcome to you all. Inman, first of all, you talked about the whimpering
:43:48. > :43:50.diminuendo of interest in the Assembly as this term glossary
:43:51. > :43:53.close. But you will be out in the street asking people to vote for you
:43:54. > :43:57.for much the second. There is a contradiction there, is there not?
:43:58. > :44:02.No, I want people, and I have been urging them every minute between now
:44:03. > :44:06.and polling day, it is to vote for a different setup. To vote for a
:44:07. > :44:11.different party. That is all I can do, that is all we can achieve in an
:44:12. > :44:17.election. I know that the cynics, or who would describe themselves as
:44:18. > :44:20.realists, say that as a dream world that nationalists will vote for the
:44:21. > :44:25.DUP, you're not want to change that, I do not accept that. We will be
:44:26. > :44:30.making a pitch directly to voters for the DUP and asking them to take
:44:31. > :44:32.a look at the DUP's performance, to say what has been revealed about
:44:33. > :44:38.their record and to consider an alternative. Do you think that the
:44:39. > :44:41.smaller parties, if People Before Profit is returned again in five
:44:42. > :44:45.seat constituencies will be able to make a difference you have made no
:44:46. > :44:48.secret of your frustration over the past eight months.
:44:49. > :44:52.Absolutely. The main thing we want out of Stormont, I want more of us.
:44:53. > :44:56.I want more people generally defending themselves, either
:44:57. > :44:59.unionist and Nationalist as over. I want more people from my party to be
:45:00. > :45:02.elected and we will be going all out to come back with more than two
:45:03. > :45:07.Maxine and if we do that, I think we did have effect in the short eight
:45:08. > :45:10.months that we were there and if we come back in greater numbers, with a
:45:11. > :45:13.film and it, there is no doubt that we will be able to shift the focus
:45:14. > :45:18.of debate that Stormont. We have done that if it already. -- a firmer
:45:19. > :45:22.mandate. If the election and opportunity or a total waste of
:45:23. > :45:25.time? I think it is an opportunity for my party because they are one of
:45:26. > :45:29.the few parties whose vote is increasing and one of the few who
:45:30. > :45:32.are not predicted to lose seats. We will come back stronger within the
:45:33. > :45:37.electoral setup. You hope you will, you cannot be sure. I would be
:45:38. > :45:40.confident that we will. The reality is that most people will see this as
:45:41. > :45:43.a waste of time and in that regard, I have some sympathy. I would much
:45:44. > :45:47.rather that we had the public inquiry before the calling of the
:45:48. > :45:52.election. I would much had come forward with a budget that did not
:45:53. > :45:56.see many people put on protective notice because they do not know if
:45:57. > :46:02.the organisation is going to be funded post much. This fiasco is
:46:03. > :46:05.going to inevitably cost jobs. And ultimately, it seems to be about a
:46:06. > :46:09.power struggle between the DUP and Sinn Fein and I do not think that is
:46:10. > :46:13.what politics should be, how it should be played. The RHI scheme,
:46:14. > :46:16.which we can talk about in a little bit more detail in just a few
:46:17. > :46:20.moments, is a green skin. Why did you not spot the flaw then it?
:46:21. > :46:26.Arlene Foster and figures above servants have been accused of being
:46:27. > :46:30.asleep at the wheel, where you are slippers? I raised the issue of
:46:31. > :46:35.perverse incentives on public record, to a written question, years
:46:36. > :46:37.ago. Also as part of the consultation, the wider green
:46:38. > :46:41.movement was then that energy efficiency should come first. The
:46:42. > :46:44.department's answer back was, "We assume people will be energy
:46:45. > :46:49.efficient before we install these systems." It was not good enough
:46:50. > :46:55.then, it is not good enough now, 490 million. Happy listening, we could
:46:56. > :46:58.avoided that. But it does show the limitations of the small parties.
:46:59. > :47:02.You may have raised that in the public record, the point is, only
:47:03. > :47:06.after the huge brewery that has happened in the past few weeks as
:47:07. > :47:11.the public inquiries only been called. You had very little sleep
:47:12. > :47:13.over what was happening. And the public now have an opportunity to
:47:14. > :47:16.give their verdict on those traditional parties who created the
:47:17. > :47:21.waist, who the institutions and return parties like the Green Party
:47:22. > :47:26.in greater numbers so that we have more power and can deliver, as we
:47:27. > :47:28.have done, and the last Assembly I delivered the children's act, we
:47:29. > :47:33.were the first party and all liberty to raise RHI from the start. We have
:47:34. > :47:39.a good track record and we can continue that with more MLAs.
:47:40. > :47:41.Stephen, is city you be happy to be facing another election so soon
:47:42. > :47:46.after the last one? In the circumstances, we are. We have been
:47:47. > :47:49.seeing for quite some time that the Executive is dysfunctional. It
:47:50. > :47:53.cannot work, it will not work. If the structures remain the same, we
:47:54. > :47:59.will be left in exactly the same position again after this election.
:48:00. > :48:06.So, we want, as others have outlined, to give the public a
:48:07. > :48:10.chance to give their verdict on the field a and structures. It gives
:48:11. > :48:14.union is a chance to vote for strong negotiating team, because no doubt
:48:15. > :48:17.after the election there will be a series of negotiations, and it will
:48:18. > :48:22.be very, very interesting to see what form, and what content, will be
:48:23. > :48:25.in those negotiations. The difficulty for your party is, with
:48:26. > :48:31.the greatest respect, last May you sympathise with assembling and were
:48:32. > :48:34.returned with one MLA. Absolutely. So, people do not listen to you. You
:48:35. > :48:38.said the system was not working last May, the blood and opportunity to
:48:39. > :48:41.believe you and to vote for your candidates, apart from Jim Allister
:48:42. > :48:45.they said no thank you very much, we will not bother. Perhaps this time
:48:46. > :48:50.will be different and I hope it is because in the last election, the
:48:51. > :48:54.blackmail by the DUP saying if you do not vote for us, Martin
:48:55. > :48:59.McGuinness will be joined First Minister, First Minister. People are
:49:00. > :49:03.seen through that because as we have witnessed... They would deny there
:49:04. > :49:07.was any blackmail involved. Well, that was your line, if you do not
:49:08. > :49:10.vote for Arlene, McGuinness will be First Minister. The public have seen
:49:11. > :49:14.through that because whenever Martin McGuinness has resigned, the thing
:49:15. > :49:19.has fallen apart because it is a joint others. And that is out of the
:49:20. > :49:24.Barry Corr of what they had to the public, in my opinion, falsely. --
:49:25. > :49:30.that is at the very core. Do you welcome the public inquiry into RHI?
:49:31. > :49:36.I do. So, Mairtin O Muilleoir got that right? It is one thing he did,
:49:37. > :49:38.yes. I also tabled a motion in my council calling for a public
:49:39. > :49:41.inquiry. It is interesting to see the DUP flip flopping on this exact
:49:42. > :49:45.issue, like Stephen has said. I would have liked to have that
:49:46. > :49:48.inquiry before an election so that we see exactly what happened, he was
:49:49. > :49:53.brought in whenever the spike happened, who brought in... Who
:49:54. > :49:56.referred them to the scheme and if they have any connection whatsoever
:49:57. > :49:59.with the DUP. Those are questions that need them to be answered and
:50:00. > :50:02.the sooner they are answered, the better. The public inquiry will ask
:50:03. > :50:07.a lot of questions and presumably can be a lot of answers and
:50:08. > :50:10.presumably those will be part of that process. To come back to you,
:50:11. > :50:13.Mr McCann, and the Department of Martin McGuinness from front line
:50:14. > :50:16.politics this week, you have known him for a very long time. You come
:50:17. > :50:21.from the same city, you were there on the streets back in the 1960s,
:50:22. > :50:26.you were doing different things and your careers have gone in different
:50:27. > :50:29.direction. What do you make of his decision to step back from the front
:50:30. > :50:32.line at this point? Well, the first thing that comes to my mind is the
:50:33. > :50:40.simplest thing, that Martin is busily not well. He is obviously...
:50:41. > :50:42.Gerry Adams is talking to the -- about the threat to his life, a
:50:43. > :50:45.life-threatening illness, and I think it a bit difficult talking
:50:46. > :50:50.about Martin. I have known him for many years. We are neighbours, sort
:50:51. > :50:53.of round the corner. We sometimes get our morning papers in the same
:50:54. > :50:59.corner shop. I know Bernadette, his wife, and so forth. Maybe I should
:51:00. > :51:02.not, I am supposed to be a politician above this sort of thing,
:51:03. > :51:06.but I find it very difficult to talk about Martin and his politics at the
:51:07. > :51:10.moment. I feel squeamish about it. Why, because you like him and are
:51:11. > :51:14.frightened of seeing something inappropriate? Bno, I am not worried
:51:15. > :51:19.at all about what is an appropriate and appropriate. Maybe I should not
:51:20. > :51:23.have taken... You mean because of illness as a personal matter? Yes,
:51:24. > :51:29.and I know him, and here's a neighbour.
:51:30. > :51:32.He is also a political opponent. Politically, we poles apart and that
:51:33. > :51:35.will remain but that does not mean that they are not human
:51:36. > :51:39.considerations which come in. I do think one of the things that gives
:51:40. > :51:44.Martin McGuinness his authenticity is that he does not come from a
:51:45. > :51:50.republican background of an ideology that has gone out, he is a brother
:51:51. > :51:56.of the block, from a march or two or a riot or do, and then sort of
:51:57. > :51:59.into... If you look at the trajectory, the Ark of Martin
:52:00. > :52:04.McGuinness's career, you will see that for good or ill, and I would be
:52:05. > :52:09.critical of it of course, it has kept pace with, get in alignment
:52:10. > :52:12.with developments in the community that he represents. He has got that
:52:13. > :52:18.which nobody else in the leadership of Sinn Fein has. Stephen, your
:52:19. > :52:20.order leader was not happy with Ian Paisley's comments about Martin
:52:21. > :52:24.McGuinness on the view on Thursday. He called it a gushing eulogy. Do
:52:25. > :52:26.you wish Martin McGuinness recovery from his current health
:52:27. > :52:30.difficulties? Can you at least concede that point? First and
:52:31. > :52:36.foremost, I would not wish ill health on anybody. But I do, my
:52:37. > :52:41.first thought is for the many thousands of victims of the IRA he
:52:42. > :52:46.commanded. They did not get to see retirement, the age that he has
:52:47. > :52:50.reached. They also note the journey he has been on, as Ian Paisley did
:52:51. > :52:53.on Thursday night? If he has been on a journey, it should begin with an
:52:54. > :52:58.apology. It should, some honesty, which is probably asking too much, I
:52:59. > :53:01.am sure. If you could come clear on where they disappeared bodies are,
:53:02. > :53:05.for example, and give closer to the victims, that would be the jester,
:53:06. > :53:11.it would be a tremendous gesture by McGuinness on the half of the IRA.
:53:12. > :53:15.You're not proceeded at this point? I wish in the health to come clean
:53:16. > :53:20.-- to reflect, come clean and tell the truth. 'S quick sentence on the
:53:21. > :53:23.departure of Martin McGuinness, how significant is it? I think it is
:53:24. > :53:28.very significant. He has been a stable sector in Northern Ireland
:53:29. > :53:31.politics since the Good Friday Agreement, the peace process. I do
:53:32. > :53:34.not think we can or should forget the past but I think we should
:53:35. > :53:37.recognise what he has done and I can honestly say I find somebody who has
:53:38. > :53:41.been good to work with. Lots more discussion about the election in
:53:42. > :53:42.weeks to come, you will be glad to hear. Thank you very much indeed for
:53:43. > :53:43.me. Let's hear more from
:53:44. > :53:53.Allison and Pete. How brittle, to quote Arlene Foster,
:53:54. > :53:57.do you think it is likely to be? Very brittle. Already, you can see
:53:58. > :54:01.that both of two main parties are reverting back to type, if you like.
:54:02. > :54:05.One is going hard-core unionist, Sinn Fein is going back to their
:54:06. > :54:08.roots, which is probably playing out quite well with the electorate but
:54:09. > :54:12.it will not take us to a good place after the election to negotiations,
:54:13. > :54:18.because an election, by its very nature, means there are no political
:54:19. > :54:21.opponents, no longer coalition partners. It will get better and
:54:22. > :54:26.nasty and where does that leave us after an election? The difficulty
:54:27. > :54:31.and it is likely to be for the smaller parties, Pete? We know that
:54:32. > :54:34.roughly about 45 to 50% of people do not forward but Stephen made the
:54:35. > :54:37.point, and it is the same for Mr McMahon, most of the political
:54:38. > :54:40.parties have gone backwards or stalled electorally. These are
:54:41. > :54:43.smaller, younger parties are starting to engage and starting to
:54:44. > :54:47.capture votes and he will probably see that they will have more cabinet
:54:48. > :54:50.seats. Hopefully they do not stand against each other, I think there's
:54:51. > :54:53.some possible to of that happening, which would be a split. One of the
:54:54. > :54:57.things it is important, within the group of people who do not vote,
:54:58. > :55:01.there is a significant number of people who are same-sex marriage,
:55:02. > :55:04.environmentalist, would consider themselves to be leftist or had left
:55:05. > :55:05.and there are people who field is a significant number of people who are
:55:06. > :55:08.same-sex marriage, environmentalist, would consider themselves to be
:55:09. > :55:11.leftist or had left and there are people who feel disadvantaged the
:55:12. > :55:13.Belfast agreement. -- there are people who feel disenfranchised.
:55:14. > :55:16.Well, political friends and foes have paid tribute
:55:17. > :55:19.with many citing his negotiating ability and personal charm
:55:20. > :55:21.as significant in his role of Deputy First Minister.
:55:22. > :55:24.Here's a look back at some of the highs and lows
:55:25. > :55:38.# It's very clear. # Are Love is here to stay. #
:55:39. > :55:42.If you had told me some time ago that I would be standing here to
:55:43. > :55:47.take this office, I would have been totally unbelieving! For Ian
:55:48. > :55:53.Paisley, I want to wish you all the best as we step forward towards the
:55:54. > :56:02.greatest yet most exciting challenge of our lives. What's the current
:56:03. > :56:09.state of your relationship with the Deputy First Minister? What it
:56:10. > :56:16.always was. No change! Not an inch, no surrender. We've been described
:56:17. > :56:18.as the Chuckle Brothers back home by people who thought that would have
:56:19. > :56:33.demeaned as in the beginning. We are hoping we can juggle our way through
:56:34. > :56:36.2008. -- chuckle. I don't think that it's helpful for us to be going into
:56:37. > :56:40.the final details of these matters but nobody is in any doubt that the
:56:41. > :56:43.issue of parading was moving forward and was held back from resolution
:56:44. > :56:51.until the issue of policing and justice was resolved. -- the finer
:56:52. > :56:56.details. And it is your belief, is it, that he took the agreement to
:56:57. > :56:59.the wider party and they said no? It is not my belief, it is my
:57:00. > :57:03.knowledge. He quite clearly crossed a line that she done and he should
:57:04. > :57:07.not have crossed. We have learnt in the cause of the recent days that
:57:08. > :57:12.the scheme is being brought forward by the Minister for Social
:57:13. > :57:16.Development does not give full protection to claimants, or
:57:17. > :57:26.protection to future claimants. That is absolutely unacceptable. I have
:57:27. > :57:31.never seen such a dishonourable, ham-fisted statement as the one
:57:32. > :57:37.issued by Sinn Fein today. My job is to work with whoever is elected by
:57:38. > :57:47.the DUP. If I can work with Ian Paisley, if I can work with Peter
:57:48. > :57:50.Robson, I can work with anybody. I'm tired of Stormont being a watchword
:57:51. > :57:54.for arguing and bickering, and that is not why are people elected us.
:57:55. > :58:06.They did so to provide a better future for us all. There is a
:58:07. > :58:16.commitment from both parties to work positively, constructively. With
:58:17. > :58:20.Arlene and I, we are agreed on many things but on the issue of Brexit, I
:58:21. > :58:28.speak for the people of the North. I think we jointly speak for the
:58:29. > :58:31.people of Northern Ireland. What we have fewer artefacts being
:58:32. > :58:37.disregarded in a fevered quest to build political gallows. Today, I
:58:38. > :58:46.have told Arlene Foster that I have tendered my resignation.
:58:47. > :58:51.# Breaking up is never easy, I know # But I have to go
:58:52. > :58:54.# Knowing me, knowing you # Is the best I can do. #
:58:55. > :58:59.So, who will take over from Martin McGuinness?
:59:00. > :59:06.If you were a betting woman, where was your money be, Alison? I have
:59:07. > :59:11.already stated this week in the paper that my money is on Michelle
:59:12. > :59:15.O'Neill. I would have said Conor Murphy a couple of months ago but
:59:16. > :59:19.since the RHI scandal, and the current scandal, she has moved to
:59:20. > :59:22.the fore and I think that Sinn Fein things she represents the young,
:59:23. > :59:25.upwardly mobile Sinn Fein and I think she is going to be the person
:59:26. > :59:30.that fills his shoes. Somebody posted election literature from
:59:31. > :59:35.sites down on Twitter, with Fein leadership and a picture of Martin
:59:36. > :59:38.McGuinness, Gerry Adams land her in the middle. If you are to take on
:59:39. > :59:44.board what you said, that kind of makes sense. That poster is true of
:59:45. > :59:48.the old joke, somebody went to the Kremlin and stall next week was my
:59:49. > :59:50.collection revolves. That in the very obvious and symbolic weight
:59:51. > :59:54.eight was going to be the next leader. Irrespective of that, we
:59:55. > :59:57.know that the party does have a very centralised structure and a leader
:59:58. > :00:02.in that party does come with certain limitations, in some ways, but it
:00:03. > :00:07.doesn't for other leaders of other political parties. Would she do a
:00:08. > :00:10.good job? I think she will budget will not be the kind of leader that
:00:11. > :00:11.Martin McGuinness was. Figurehead rather than...
:00:12. > :00:12.have to do this. Thank you to you Different kind.
:00:13. > :00:13.have to do this. Thank you to you both.
:00:14. > :00:14.have to do this. Thank you to you Different kind. Thank you
:00:15. > :00:23.What exactly is the government's industrial strategy?
:00:24. > :00:27.Will ministers lose their supreme court battle over Brexit, and,
:00:28. > :00:39.Well, tomorrow Theresa May is launching the government's
:00:40. > :00:43.industrial strategy - and to talk about that we're joined
:00:44. > :00:50.by the Business Minister, Margot James - welcome to the show.
:00:51. > :00:58.When you look at what has already been released in advance of the
:00:59. > :01:03.Prime Minister's statement, it was embargoed for last night, it's not
:01:04. > :01:07.really an industrial strategy, it's just another skills strategy, of
:01:08. > :01:14.which we have had about six since the war, and our skills training is
:01:15. > :01:19.among the worst in Western Europe? There will be plenty more to be
:01:20. > :01:22.announced tomorrow in what is really a discussion document in the
:01:23. > :01:27.preparation of an industrial strategy which we intend to launch
:01:28. > :01:35.properly later in the year. Let's look at skills. You are allocating
:01:36. > :01:42.117 of funding to establish institutes of technology. How many?
:01:43. > :01:47.The exact number is to be agreed, but the spend is there, and it will
:01:48. > :01:50.be on top of what we are doing to the university, technical
:01:51. > :01:57.colleges... How many were lit bio create? We don't know exactly, but
:01:58. > :02:01.we want to put them in areas where young people are performing under
:02:02. > :02:08.the national average. But if you don't know how many, what is the
:02:09. > :02:11.basis of 170 million? That is the amount the Treasury have released.
:02:12. > :02:16.The something that is very important, we are agreed we need to
:02:17. > :02:22.devote more resources to vocational training and get it on a par with
:02:23. > :02:28.academic qualifications. I looked on the website of my old university,
:02:29. > :02:33.the University of Glasgow, the Russell group universities. Its
:02:34. > :02:41.spending budget every year is over 600 million. That's one University.
:02:42. > :02:46.And yet you have a mere 170 million foreign unspecified number of
:02:47. > :02:51.institutes of technology. It hasn't got equality with the academics? You
:02:52. > :02:55.have to remember that just as you have quoted figures from Glasgow
:02:56. > :03:00.University there are further education colleges all over the
:03:01. > :03:08.country. The government is already spending on 16 to 19-year-olds. But
:03:09. > :03:13.also, we are going to be adding... This is new money that is all to the
:03:14. > :03:18.good, because we are already spending a lot. We have already
:03:19. > :03:23.created 2 million more apprentices since 2010. That many are not in
:03:24. > :03:28.what we would call the stem skills, and a lot come nowhere near what the
:03:29. > :03:34.Dutch, Germans and Austrians would have. I'm not clear how another 170
:03:35. > :03:38.million would do. You said it is more than skills. In what way is
:03:39. > :03:50.this industrial strategy different from what Mr Cameron and Mr Osborne
:03:51. > :03:52.did before? It's different because it is involving every single
:03:53. > :03:54.government department, and bringing together everything that government
:03:55. > :03:57.does in a bid to make Britain more competitive as it disengages from
:03:58. > :04:03.the European Union. That is what the last Labour government did. They
:04:04. > :04:07.will much more targeted interventions. Under the Labour
:04:08. > :04:12.government, the auto industry got some benefit. A few more sectors
:04:13. > :04:17.were broached under the coalition government. This is all about
:04:18. > :04:22.communities all over the country, some of whom have fallen behind in
:04:23. > :04:27.terms of wage growth and good jobs. The Prime Minister has already
:04:28. > :04:34.announced 2 billion as a research and development priority in specific
:04:35. > :04:38.technologies, robotics, artificial intelligence, medical technology,
:04:39. > :04:44.satellites... So you are doing what has been done before. There is
:04:45. > :04:49.nothing new about this. Wait until tomorrow, because there will be some
:04:50. > :04:52.new strands emerging. It is the beginning of the dialogue with
:04:53. > :04:58.industry and with workers, and the responses will be invited up until
:04:59. > :05:04.April. That will inform a wider strategy that goes beyond skills. I
:05:05. > :05:09.have moved on to beyond them. I'm slightly puzzled as to how the
:05:10. > :05:14.government knows where to invest in robotics, when it can't even provide
:05:15. > :05:19.the NHS with a decent IT system. Discuss. I have to say I find it
:05:20. > :05:22.bizarre that the government is making an announcement about an
:05:23. > :05:27.amount of money and don't know where it's going. This is typical of all
:05:28. > :05:33.governments over all political shoes, which is total disregard for
:05:34. > :05:41.technical education, so different from Germany, who actually invest in
:05:42. > :05:48.the technological side. Germany has a long history. We want to emulate
:05:49. > :05:52.some of the best of what German companies do. Siemens sponsor
:05:53. > :05:58.primary schools, for example. We want to get a dialogue on with
:05:59. > :06:03.business. We don't want to decide where this money is going. By the
:06:04. > :06:09.way, it was 4.7 billion that the government has agreed to invest in
:06:10. > :06:12.science and research, which is the most significant increase in
:06:13. > :06:17.decades. Can you remind us what happened in Northern Ireland, when
:06:18. > :06:20.the government invested money in state-of-the-art technology for
:06:21. > :06:28.energy? No one needs to be reminded of that, and that is not what we are
:06:29. > :06:33.doing. We are inviting business and industry to advise where that money
:06:34. > :06:38.is best spent. That's very different from government deciding that a
:06:39. > :06:43.particular technology is for the future. The government's chief
:06:44. > :06:49.scientific adviser has determined that we will invest a huge amount in
:06:50. > :06:54.battery technology, which should benefit the electric car industry,
:06:55. > :07:01.and... This is taxpayers' money. Who gets it? Ultimately, business will
:07:02. > :07:06.get it, but often only when there is a considerable amount of private
:07:07. > :07:14.sector finance also drawn in. But who is held to account? Various
:07:15. > :07:18.government departments at local authorities will hold this list to
:07:19. > :07:25.account. A lot of it is about releasing private capital as well.
:07:26. > :07:32.Thank you very much. This week, the Supreme Court, I think we know the
:07:33. > :07:36.ruling is coming on Tuesday. And the expectation is that the judges will
:07:37. > :07:42.say Parliament will have to vote to trigger. Is this all much ado about
:07:43. > :07:45.nothing? Parliament will vote to trigger, and the government will win
:07:46. > :07:49.in the Lords and the Commons by substantial majorities, and it will
:07:50. > :07:54.be triggered? Completely. We've known that. Parliament is voted.
:07:55. > :07:58.Everyone is pretty confident that the Supreme Court will uphold the
:07:59. > :08:07.High Court's decision and say it has to go to MPs. There will be a bit of
:08:08. > :08:13.toing and froing among MPs on amendments. You heard Diane Abbott's
:08:14. > :08:16.slightly car crash interview there. The Lib Dems may throw something in,
:08:17. > :08:24.but we will trigger Article 50 by the end of March. If it also says
:08:25. > :08:29.that the roll of Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast should be picked up,
:08:30. > :08:33.that could complicate matters. Absolutely. That could delay the
:08:34. > :08:37.planned triggering of Article 50 before the end of March. Not what
:08:38. > :08:42.they say about the Westminster Parliament, because it is clear that
:08:43. > :08:47.it was. I never understood the furore about that original judgment,
:08:48. > :08:52.because every MP made it clear they wouldn't block it. Even though Diane
:08:53. > :08:57.Abbott was evasive on several fronts, she said they wouldn't block
:08:58. > :09:01.it. You are right, if they give a vote, or give some authorisation for
:09:02. > :09:06.the Scottish Parliament and other devolved assemblies, that might
:09:07. > :09:12.delay the whole sequence. That is the only significant thing to watch
:09:13. > :09:17.out for. Watch out on Tuesday. Mrs May goes to Washington. It will be
:09:18. > :09:22.another movie in the making! I would suggest that she has a tricky line
:09:23. > :09:27.to follow. She has got to be seen to be taking advantage of the fact that
:09:28. > :09:32.there is a very pro-British, pro-Brexit president in the Oval
:09:33. > :09:37.Office, who I am told is prepared to expend political capital on this.
:09:38. > :09:49.But on the other hand, to make sure that she is not what we used to call
:09:50. > :09:53.Mr Blair, George Bush's poodle. It is very difficult, and who would not
:09:54. > :09:56.want to be a fly on the wall in that meeting! I can't think of anyone in
:09:57. > :10:01.the world who would despise Mr Trump more than Mrs May, and for him, he
:10:02. > :10:12.dislikes any woman who does not look like a supermodel, no disrespected
:10:13. > :10:16.Mrs May. Most of it is actually anti-EU, and I think we should
:10:17. > :10:21.capitalise it. Let's get the Queen to earn her money, roll out the red
:10:22. > :10:28.carpet, invite him to dinner, spend the night, what ever we need...
:10:29. > :10:33.Trump at Balmoral! Here is the issue, because the agenda is, as we
:10:34. > :10:38.heard from Ted Malloch earlier, that this is not an administration that
:10:39. > :10:41.has much time for the EU, EU integration or Germany. I think
:10:42. > :10:47.Germany will be the second biggest loser to begin with. They will not
:10:48. > :10:55.even give a date for Angela Merkel to meet the president. This is an
:10:56. > :11:03.opportunity for Mrs May... It is a huge. It could sideline talks of the
:11:04. > :11:10.punishment beating from Germany. The Trump presidency has completely
:11:11. > :11:13.changed the field on Brexit. Along came Donald Trump, and Theresa May
:11:14. > :11:19.has this incredible opportunity here. Not of her making, but she has
:11:20. > :11:25.played her cards well. To an officially be the EU emissary to
:11:26. > :11:30.Washington, to get some sort of broker going. That gives us huge
:11:31. > :11:34.extra leveraged in the Brexit negotiations. People around the
:11:35. > :11:38.world think Germany as a currency manipulator, that it is benefiting
:11:39. > :11:42.from an underpriced euro, hence the huge surplus it runs of America, and
:11:43. > :11:49.they think it is disgraceful that a country that runs a massive budget
:11:50. > :11:54.surplus spends only 1.2% of its GDP on defence, and America runs a
:11:55. > :12:00.massive deficit and needs to spend a lot more. He's going for Germany.
:12:01. > :12:05.And what a massive shift. I think Obama was quite open, in a farewell
:12:06. > :12:10.interview, that he felt closer to Merkel than any other European
:12:11. > :12:17.leader. And Jamie kind of reflected that in our discussion. Yes, that's
:12:18. > :12:21.very interesting discussion. I think she was the last person he spoke to
:12:22. > :12:28.in the White House, Obama. And now you are getting the onslaught from
:12:29. > :12:32.Trump. This Thatcher- Reagan imagery is dangerous, though. Blair was
:12:33. > :12:37.hypnotised by it and was too scared to criticise Bush, because he wanted
:12:38. > :12:42.to be seen in that light, and we know where that led. Cameron
:12:43. > :12:45.similarly with Obama, which presented him with problems, as
:12:46. > :12:53.Obama didn't regard him as his number one pin up in Europe. I would
:12:54. > :12:58.put a note of caution in there about the Thatcher - Reagan parallel.
:12:59. > :13:02.Everything Trump is doing now is different from before, so Mrs May
:13:03. > :13:09.should not have any of these previous relationships in her mind.
:13:10. > :13:16.That is not entirely true. Donald Trump aches to be the new Ronald
:13:17. > :13:19.Reagan. He may be impeached first! He sees her as the new Margaret
:13:20. > :13:27.Thatcher, and that may her leveraged with him. Thank you.
:13:28. > :13:32.We'll be back here at the same time next week, and you can catch up
:13:33. > :13:35.on all the latest political news on the Daily Politics,
:13:36. > :13:38.In the meantime, remember - if it's Sunday,
:13:39. > :14:13.The View holds politicians to account and we ask
:14:14. > :14:16.the questions that our audiences want answers to.
:14:17. > :14:21.We reflect what's happening in the political world but I think we also