23/04/2017

:00:36. > :00:38.It's Sunday afternoon - this is the Sunday Politics.

:00:39. > :00:41.Jeremy Corbyn wants to give everyone in Britain four

:00:42. > :00:44.extra bank holidays - but is the Labour leader up

:00:45. > :00:46.to being Prime Minister if he wins the election in just

:00:47. > :00:52.Theresa May says she wants a stronger hand to deliver Brexit -

:00:53. > :00:54.how will the Conservatives go about getting the bigger

:00:55. > :01:01.I'll be asking Party Chairman, Patrick McLoughlin.

:01:02. > :01:05.And I've been in Paris where voters are going to the polls in first

:01:06. > :01:12.And in Northern Ireland: election - what could be the impact

:01:13. > :01:14.We talk pacts and polls with the political parties here,

:01:15. > :01:17.as they prepare for the third election in just over a year.

:01:18. > :01:20.And how does that affect the negotiations at Stormont?

:01:21. > :01:22.Will the Remain majority punish the Tories for the decision?

:01:23. > :01:25.Or feel they may not like it but the Tories

:01:26. > :01:39.And with me has always ready for the marathon task of covering a snap

:01:40. > :01:43.general election, even working on bank holidays, the best and

:01:44. > :01:43.brightest political panel in the business. David Wooding, Polly

:01:44. > :01:47.Toynbee and Toby Young. So Labour's big announcement this

:01:48. > :01:49.morning was a crowd pleaser. Four more rainy bank

:01:50. > :01:51.holidays to enjoy - one for each of the patron saints

:01:52. > :01:54.of England, Scotland, But Mr Corbyn probably won't be

:01:55. > :02:00.getting the time off work if he wins And on The Andrew Marr Show this

:02:01. > :02:04.morning he was asked what he would do as Prime Minister

:02:05. > :02:07.if the security services asked him to authorise a drone strike

:02:08. > :02:10.on the leader of Islamic State. What I'd tell them is,

:02:11. > :02:14.give me the information you've got, tell me how accurate that is,

:02:15. > :02:16.tell me what you I'm asking you about decisions you

:02:17. > :02:26.would take as Prime Minister. Can I take you back

:02:27. > :02:28.to the whole point? Is the objective

:02:29. > :02:32.to start more strikes that may kill many innocent

:02:33. > :02:34.people, as has happened? Do you think killing

:02:35. > :02:36.the leader of Isis would be I think the leader of Isis not

:02:37. > :02:45.being around would be helpful, and I'm no supporter or defender

:02:46. > :02:47.in any way of Isis. But I would also argue that

:02:48. > :02:52.the bombing campaign has killed a of whom were virtually prisoners of

:02:53. > :02:54.Isis. So you've got to think

:02:55. > :03:01.about these things. Mr Corbyn earlier. David, is his

:03:02. > :03:06.reply refreshing damaging? It is damaging. He has clearly been

:03:07. > :03:10.freaked to the fire already in the first week, there will be lots of

:03:11. > :03:13.questions on his suitability as a leader and the damage it could cause

:03:14. > :03:17.to our national security over the weeks ahead and Andrew Marr has cut

:03:18. > :03:21.straight to the chase here. The other thing, of course, is the

:03:22. > :03:24.letters of last resort, one of the first duties of a Prime Minister

:03:25. > :03:30.when he walks into No 10 is to sign these letters on his own, on or --

:03:31. > :03:33.or on her own in a room, a very lonely moment, to decide whether he

:03:34. > :03:37.should press the nuclear button and that goes in the Vanguard submarines

:03:38. > :03:41.and is opened in the event of a strike and he has dodged a question

:03:42. > :03:45.so many times. One must wonder what he would do that. He has to make

:03:46. > :03:50.these decisions as Prime Minister. On the Isis point, refreshing or

:03:51. > :03:55.damaging? It sure is his base, the people who support him, that's the

:03:56. > :03:58.sort of thing they support info and maybe his tactic is that's all he's

:03:59. > :04:02.going to get, that is what the polls seem to suggest, in which case they

:04:03. > :04:05.will be pleased, and say yes, the man is a man for these who doesn't

:04:06. > :04:11.press buttons and shoot people down. But if you want to win you have to

:04:12. > :04:15.deal with your own weaknesses and reach out to other people. I think

:04:16. > :04:21.most people would say that's not somebody who could defend the

:04:22. > :04:25.country. I wonder if he was being totally honest in saying he would

:04:26. > :04:29.consider it he would ask for more information. He has previously been

:04:30. > :04:32.on the record as being against drone strikes in principle, he's

:04:33. > :04:36.campaigned against them, he wants to abolish drones. I think Andrew Marr

:04:37. > :04:40.let him off saying it was a drone strike rather than a Navy SEAL or

:04:41. > :04:43.SAS operation and he had the fact that they could be collateral

:04:44. > :04:49.damage. We that's not his position because he condemned the

:04:50. > :04:52.assassination of Osama Bin Laden even though there was no collateral

:04:53. > :04:56.damage. David is right on the Trident point, he fetched the

:04:57. > :05:02.question. We heard Niall Griffiths on this very show saying Trident,

:05:03. > :05:05.the renewal of Trident, would be in the next Labour Party manifesto. It

:05:06. > :05:08.turns out now we don't know and when he was asked he said that remains to

:05:09. > :05:12.be seen, his re-opened a can of worms. What he has said about

:05:13. > :05:17.Trident which was extraordinary was, we will rebuild the submarines but

:05:18. > :05:20.not have any nukes on them which is expensive and useless. And of course

:05:21. > :05:23.the Labour Party were forced soon after that interview to put out a

:05:24. > :05:29.statement saying it is Labour Party policy to renew Trident. So where

:05:30. > :05:33.are we? Do we know what the party's policy is? It is to renew Trident

:05:34. > :05:39.but he has started this review which involves looking at it all again. We

:05:40. > :05:43.know he is a unilateralist to start with but whether he can force this

:05:44. > :05:48.through is dubious. Does it matter, though, if the party policy is in

:05:49. > :05:52.favour of Trident, if the leader is not? The potential Prime Minister is

:05:53. > :05:55.not? They split three ways when they went to vote on it in the Commons.

:05:56. > :05:59.The party agreed they were pro-Trident and when it came to the

:06:00. > :06:04.vote they split three ways. I think it's difficult for them, it's always

:06:05. > :06:08.been a really difficult issue for Labour. The question is whether you

:06:09. > :06:12.want to seal off your negatives, whether you really want to try and

:06:13. > :06:15.reach out to people. There are an awful lot of people who will like

:06:16. > :06:20.what he said, there are an awful lot of people that think we have been

:06:21. > :06:23.involved in terrible wars, we have wasted a lot of money and blood and

:06:24. > :06:28.let's just get back from the whole thing, let's retreat from the world

:06:29. > :06:32.and not try punching above our weight. There is something to be

:06:33. > :06:36.said for that and it is a reasonable argument. He's been true to himself

:06:37. > :06:40.on this. I think he is and Polly is right, lots of people will agree

:06:41. > :06:44.with him, not enough to win a general election, the latest ComRes

:06:45. > :06:47.poll shows Tories on 50% and Labour on 25 and as my colleague James

:06:48. > :06:51.Forsyth in the Spectator said if this was a boxing match it would

:06:52. > :06:52.have been stopped by now by the revelry. We are not stopping, we are

:06:53. > :06:53.going on. So the political parties have had

:06:54. > :06:56.to move into election mode Stand by for battle buses,

:06:57. > :07:00.mail shots and your social media timeline being bombarded

:07:01. > :07:01.by political propoganda. But none of this comes cheap -

:07:02. > :07:07.Adam's been doing his sums. Democracy is priceless but those

:07:08. > :07:12.planes, trains and automobiles used in the last election cost money

:07:13. > :07:14.and we know exactly how much, thanks to the Electoral

:07:15. > :07:20.Commission database. The Conservatives flew David Cameron

:07:21. > :07:24.to every part of the UK in one day on a private plane costing ?29,000,

:07:25. > :07:30.in-flight meals extra. They shelled out ?1.2 million

:07:31. > :07:35.for adverts on Facebook. The most expensive item was their

:07:36. > :07:40.election guru Lynton Crosby. They bought ?2.4 million worth

:07:41. > :07:43.of advice and research from his firm Labour's biggest expenditure

:07:44. > :07:49.was on good old-fashioned leaflets, costing ?7.4 million

:07:50. > :07:52.to print and deliver. Hope they didn't go straight

:07:53. > :07:57.into the recycling. Cheap for all the

:07:58. > :08:06.enjoyment it gave us. To turn a normal minibus

:08:07. > :08:09.into Harriet Harman's pink bus Nick Clegg toured the country doing

:08:10. > :08:15.all manner of stunts transported although the party got a grand's

:08:16. > :08:28.discount when it broke down. Ukip's then leader Nigel Farage

:08:29. > :08:30.was accompanied by bodyguards Nicola Sturgeon's chopper

:08:31. > :08:39.cost the SNP ?35,450. Plaid Cymru spent just over

:08:40. > :08:43.?1,000 on media training And the Greens spent ?6,912

:08:44. > :08:57.promoting their tweets. It adds up to a grand total

:08:58. > :09:01.for all the parties of ?37,560,039. Jabbing at my calculator that works

:09:02. > :09:07.out at less than ?1 per voter. Adam Fleming there -

:09:08. > :09:12.and joining me now is the man responsible for the Conservative

:09:13. > :09:16.election campaigns - for the locals next month

:09:17. > :09:24.and the general election in June - Welcome to the programme. The Crown

:09:25. > :09:27.Prosecution Service is reviewing evidence from 14 police forces that

:09:28. > :09:32.your party breached election spending rules on multiple occasions

:09:33. > :09:38.in the last election. What are you going to do differently this time?

:09:39. > :09:44.Well, the battle buses are part of the National campaign spend. You saw

:09:45. > :09:47.them just on the shot that you did, all three parties had those battle

:09:48. > :09:51.buses so that's why we believe they were part of the national spend and

:09:52. > :09:54.it was declared that way. At least 30 people in your party, MPs and

:09:55. > :09:58.agents, being investigated because they may not have been right to

:09:59. > :10:01.include it in the national spend. Are you saying you are going to do

:10:02. > :10:09.nothing differently this time? You asked me about last time and the way

:10:10. > :10:13.the position is... Was. I asked you about this time. We will take a

:10:14. > :10:19.careful count and make sure that everything that we do is within the

:10:20. > :10:23.law. But as I say, the last election, all three parties had

:10:24. > :10:27.battle buses. It is your party that above all has been investigated by

:10:28. > :10:33.14 police forces. You must surely be taking stock of that and working out

:10:34. > :10:36.how to do some things differently. You are being investigated because

:10:37. > :10:41.you put stuff on the National Ledger which should have been on the local

:10:42. > :10:44.constituency ledger. Are you looking at that again? All of the parties

:10:45. > :10:48.had battle buses and they all put them on their national spend. I

:10:49. > :10:53.don't think any of the parties put them on the local spend. The other

:10:54. > :10:56.battle buses were not full of their party activists. Your party stuffed

:10:57. > :11:02.these battle buses with activists and took them to constituencies.

:11:03. > :11:06.That's the difference. And I ask again, what is different this time?

:11:07. > :11:10.Are you going to run the risk of being investigated yet again? We

:11:11. > :11:15.believe that we fully compliant with the electoral law as it was. What

:11:16. > :11:19.will happen if one of these, or two or three or four or five of these 30

:11:20. > :11:26.people, Tory MPs, or agents running campaigns are charged during the

:11:27. > :11:29.campaign? As I say I believe we properly declared our election

:11:30. > :11:33.expenses. What happens if they are charged? You asking me a

:11:34. > :11:36.hypothetical question, the importance of this election is about

:11:37. > :11:41.who is in Downing Street in seven weeks' time. Let me clarify this,

:11:42. > :11:44.you maintain that in 2015 you did nothing wrong with how you allocated

:11:45. > :11:47.the cost and the activities of the battle buses and you would do

:11:48. > :11:52.exactly the same this time round? What we did at the last election we

:11:53. > :11:57.believe fully complied with the law. So the battle buses this time,

:11:58. > :12:00.stocked full of activists, will still be charged to the national

:12:01. > :12:08.campaign even when they go to local constituencies? Will they? We will

:12:09. > :12:13.be looking at the way we do it, there is new guidance from the

:12:14. > :12:17.Electoral Commission out and we will look at that guidance. It is not the

:12:18. > :12:21.guidance, it is the lawful stop the Electoral Commission said that, if

:12:22. > :12:24.you look at the report they did on us, they said there was one area

:12:25. > :12:28.where we had over claimed, over declared, and another area we had

:12:29. > :12:31.and declared. We haven't worked out what to do

:12:32. > :12:35.yet, have you? We will get on with the campaign and

:12:36. > :12:37.start the campaign and I'm looking forward to the campaign.

:12:38. > :12:40.I'm trying to work out of the campaign is going to be legal or not

:12:41. > :12:44.because last time it seems it could have been illegal.

:12:45. > :12:46.I am sure the campaign will be legal.

:12:47. > :12:51.You started the campaign warning about the prospect of, the coalition

:12:52. > :12:59.of chaos. Mr Corbyn has ruled out a post-election coalition with the SNP

:13:00. > :13:01.and so have the Lib Dems so who is going to be in this coalition?

:13:02. > :13:03.Vince Cable said he was looking towards a possible coalition trying

:13:04. > :13:06.to stop a Conservative government. Is not the leader of the Lib Dems.

:13:07. > :13:13.He's an important voice in the Lib Dems. Who will be in it? Let's see

:13:14. > :13:16.because of the Conservative Party is not re-elected with a strong

:13:17. > :13:19.majority, what will happen? There will be a coalition stopping us

:13:20. > :13:23.doing the things we need to do. Who will be in it? It will be a

:13:24. > :13:27.coalition of the Labour Party, the SNP and the Liberal party. They have

:13:28. > :13:31.ruled it out. I think they would not rule it out if that was the

:13:32. > :13:35.situation. Like Theresa May not ruling out an election and then

:13:36. > :13:39.changing her mind? The things the Prime Minister said were very clear,

:13:40. > :13:43.once she had served Article 50 there was an opportunity, as we know

:13:44. > :13:47.today, there is going to be the start of a new government formed in

:13:48. > :13:50.France and in September we have the German elections. So it was quite

:13:51. > :13:56.right that we didn't get ourselves boxed into a timetable. That is why

:13:57. > :13:59.the Prime Minister took the view that they should be a general

:14:00. > :14:03.election to give her full strength of an electoral mandate when it

:14:04. > :14:10.comes to those negotiations. What about Mr Corbyn's plan for four new

:14:11. > :14:13.bank holidays, good idea? I'm not... If we get Corbyn in No 10 Downing St

:14:14. > :14:18.we will have a permanent bank holiday of the United Kingdom. We

:14:19. > :14:24.will have fewer bank holidays of most other major nations, most about

:14:25. > :14:28.major wealthy nations. What about at least one more? Well, look, he's

:14:29. > :14:33.talked about four bank holidays. Today would be a bank holiday and

:14:34. > :14:37.next Monday would be a bank holiday and the other week was a bank

:14:38. > :14:41.holiday too. I don't think it's very well thought out. It sounded more to

:14:42. > :14:45.me something like you get in school mock elections rather than proper

:14:46. > :14:48.elections. Your party is the self-styled party of the workers and

:14:49. > :14:52.you have no plans to give the workers even one extra bank holiday?

:14:53. > :14:57.What we want to do is ensure Britain is a strong economy and building on

:14:58. > :15:01.the jobs that we have created since 2010. We were told that by reducing

:15:02. > :15:06.public expenditure unemployment in this country would go up,

:15:07. > :15:10.unemployment has gone down and the number of jobs have gone up

:15:11. > :15:14.substantially. But no more bank holidays? Well, we will make our

:15:15. > :15:18.manifesto in due course but I don't think four bank holidays held in

:15:19. > :15:24.April, March and November are very attractive to people. When Ed

:15:25. > :15:33.Miliband as leader of the Labour Party suggested the government

:15:34. > :15:37.should control energy prices by capping them, the Conservatives

:15:38. > :15:40.described that as almost Communist and central planning. Do still take

:15:41. > :15:45.that view? You'll see what we have to say on energy prices. I didn't

:15:46. > :15:49.you about that, I asked you if you take the view... The Prime Minister

:15:50. > :15:52.made a speech at the Conservative Spring conference in which she

:15:53. > :15:55.outlined her dissatisfaction about people who are kept locked on a

:15:56. > :15:57.standard tariff and those are the issues we will address in the next

:15:58. > :16:03.few weeks when the manifesto was published.

:16:04. > :16:09.Would that be an act of communism? You will need to see what we say

:16:10. > :16:15.when we set out the policies. It could be. You could put a Communist

:16:16. > :16:20.act into your manifesto? I don't think you'll find a Communist

:16:21. > :16:24.manifesto in a Conservative manifesto which will be launched...

:16:25. > :16:28.You are planning to control prices? We will address what we think is

:16:29. > :16:32.unfairness in the energy market. Mr Jeremy Corbyn was reluctant this

:16:33. > :16:38.morning to sanction a drone strike. You heard us talking about it

:16:39. > :16:41.earlier against the leader of Islamic State if our intelligence

:16:42. > :16:46.services identified him. What would it achieve? When the Prime Minister

:16:47. > :16:51.gets certain advice in the national interests, she has to act been that.

:16:52. > :16:54.We've seen with Theresa May in her time as Home Secretary and Prime

:16:55. > :16:58.Minister, she's not afraid to take those very difficult decisions. What

:16:59. > :17:02.we say this morning from Jeremy Corbyn was a his tans, a reluctance.

:17:03. > :17:09.I don't think that serves the country well. What would it achieve

:17:10. > :17:13.if we take out the head of Islamic State he's replaced by somebody

:17:14. > :17:19.else. It brings their organisation into difficulties. It undermines

:17:20. > :17:23.their organisation. It shows we'll take every measure to undo an

:17:24. > :17:26.organisation which has organised terrorism in different parts of

:17:27. > :17:29.Europe, the UK. I think it is absolutely right the Prime Minister

:17:30. > :17:34.is prepared to take those kind of measures. Jeremy Corbyn said he

:17:35. > :17:39.wasn't prepared to take that. Because he wasn't sure what it would

:17:40. > :17:44.achieve. The Obama administration launched hundreds of drone strikes

:17:45. > :17:50.in various war zones and we in the west are still under attack on a

:17:51. > :17:56.regular basis. Mr Corbyn's basis was what would it achieve? It would

:17:57. > :18:00.achieve a safer position for the UK overall. The war on terrorists. But

:18:01. > :18:05.the Westminster attack, Paris has just been attacked again? There's

:18:06. > :18:09.been attacks which have been stopped by the intelligence services. We

:18:10. > :18:13.must do all we can to support them. The question was about drone

:18:14. > :18:18.strikes. Whether it is drone strikes or other action, we have to be

:18:19. > :18:22.prepared to act. Let's move on to Brexit. It is the major reason the

:18:23. > :18:26.Prime Minister's called the election? Not the only within but

:18:27. > :18:30.the main reason? It is one of the reasons. Now we start the two-year

:18:31. > :18:35.negotiations and then a year afterwards. Also the way in which

:18:36. > :18:38.certain people said they would try to use in the House of Lords or

:18:39. > :18:45.House of Commons to prevent us making progress. I think you'll put

:18:46. > :18:51.in your manifesto, it is the Government's policy, the Brexit

:18:52. > :18:58.negotiating position will be no more freedom of movement. Leave the

:18:59. > :19:01.single market and no longer under the jurisdiction Europe. You expect

:19:02. > :19:07.every Tory MP to fight on that manifesto. What will you do with Ken

:19:08. > :19:11.Clarke and Anna? They will have fought on their manifesto. They will

:19:12. > :19:14.understand the Prime Minister has the authority of the ballot box

:19:15. > :19:20.behind them. Will they fight the election on these positions? I'm

:19:21. > :19:25.sure they'll fight the election supporting the election of a

:19:26. > :19:28.Conservative Government and it's manifesto will quite clearly set

:19:29. > :19:33.out... You know they're against these positions. Ken Clarke has a

:19:34. > :19:37.prod tradition of expressing a certain view. Overall, the party's

:19:38. > :19:41.manifesto, it is not just individuals like Ken Clarke, it is

:19:42. > :19:45.what happens as far as the House of Lords are concerned, people said

:19:46. > :19:50.they'd use the House of Lords to prevent certain measures. You're the

:19:51. > :19:54.party chairman, will it be possible for people like Ken Clarke to fight

:19:55. > :20:00.this election under the Conservative ticket without sub describing to all

:20:01. > :20:06.-- subscribing to all of these Brexit conditions? Ken Clarke will

:20:07. > :20:10.fight as Conservative candidates. That wasn't my question. I know

:20:11. > :20:14.that. Will they be allowed to fight it on their own ticket and not

:20:15. > :20:18.subscribe to what is in your manifesto? The manifesto will be

:20:19. > :20:22.what the Conservative Party fights the General Election on. There will

:20:23. > :20:28.always be cases where people have had different views on different

:20:29. > :20:34.parts of the manifesto. That will be the guiding principles for the

:20:35. > :20:39.party. Philip Hammond says your election promises in 2015, in your

:20:40. > :20:43.manifesto not to raise taxes tied his hands when it came to managing

:20:44. > :20:48.the economy. Do you agree with him? No. The simple fact is we have to do

:20:49. > :20:52.the best things for the economy. We'll set out in our manifesto in a

:20:53. > :20:57.few weeks' time, what the policies will be for the next Parliament. Can

:20:58. > :21:03.I clarify, you don't agree with your Chancellor? What Philip was saying

:21:04. > :21:08.was some of the areas we wants to address as Chancellor, what the

:21:09. > :21:11.party will do, it will set out all the issues we're fighting on. It

:21:12. > :21:15.will set out clearly the choice we have in this country. That's the

:21:16. > :21:19.important thing. Let me put the question to you again. Philip

:21:20. > :21:23.Hammond said this week your election promise in 2015 not to raise taxes

:21:24. > :21:29.had tied his hands when it came to managing the economy. I ask you, do

:21:30. > :21:34.you agree with him? You said no. Philip expressed his view as to what

:21:35. > :21:39.he would like. What I'm saying is in a few weeks' time we'll set the

:21:40. > :21:43.manifesto which will set the policies, agreed with the the

:21:44. > :21:47.Cabinet. He's Chancellor. Doesn't he determine what the economic part of

:21:48. > :21:52.the manifesto is? We'll talk about that in due course. Will you have a

:21:53. > :21:57.lock on the taxes that you locked in 2015 on income tax, VAT, national

:21:58. > :22:04.insurance? That will be decided. You'll see that when we publish the

:22:05. > :22:08.manifesto in a few weeks' time. Will you rule out the possibility taxes

:22:09. > :22:13.may have to rise under a future Conservative Party? Conservative

:22:14. > :22:19.Government. We've taken four million people out of tax. Now, on average,

:22:20. > :22:25.people are paying ?1200 less tax than they were on the same salaries

:22:26. > :22:27.in 2010. I'm very provide of that. I can assure you, the Conservative

:22:28. > :22:31.Party will want to see taxes reduced. It is the Labour Party

:22:32. > :22:37.which will put up taxes. We have the evidence where this he did so.

:22:38. > :22:43.Council tax went up by over 100%. You haven't reduced the tax burden

:22:44. > :22:49.as a percentage of the GDP is now going to reach its highest level

:22:50. > :22:54.since the mid-180s which was when Conservatives were in power. The tax

:22:55. > :22:57.burden in this country under your Government is rising? We've more

:22:58. > :23:00.people paying taxes which is something, because we've a growing

:23:01. > :23:05.economy and more people... What about the tax band? You said you

:23:06. > :23:11.reduced the tax burden on your own Government's figures is rising? We

:23:12. > :23:15.have reduced the tax burden. The threshold at which people start

:23:16. > :23:21.paying. These are tax rates not the tax burden. It is rising. The tax

:23:22. > :23:26.rates have been reduced. You said tax burden. Perhaps I misspoke. Tax

:23:27. > :23:34.rates have been reduced. We'll leave it there. No doubt we'll speak again

:23:35. > :23:36.between now and June Is France now about to make it

:23:37. > :23:40.a hat-trick of shocks The prospect terrifies

:23:41. > :23:43.the governing elite in Paris. But they're no less scared

:23:44. > :23:45.in Brussels and Berlin, given what it could mean

:23:46. > :23:48.for the whole EU project, never mind the huge potential impact

:23:49. > :24:07.on our own Brexit negotiations. 11 candidates are contesting

:24:08. > :24:10.the first round of the presidential Only the top two will go forward

:24:11. > :24:16.to the run-off on May 7th. For the first time since General De

:24:17. > :24:21.Gaulle created the fifth Republic in 1958, it's perfectly possible that

:24:22. > :24:25.no candidate from the ruling parties of the centre-left or the

:24:26. > :24:28.centre-right will even make it The election has been dominated by

:24:29. > :24:35.the hard right in the shape of the who's never been elected

:24:36. > :24:42.to anything and only started his own party

:24:43. > :24:44.a few months ago. And the far left in the form

:24:45. > :24:47.of Jean-Luc Melenchon, a former Trotskyite who has surged

:24:48. > :24:51.in the final weeks of the campaign. The only candidate left from the

:24:52. > :24:54.traditional governing parties is the centre-right's

:24:55. > :24:57.Francois Fillon and he's been struggling to stay in

:24:58. > :25:00.the race ever since it was revealed that his Welsh wife was being paid

:25:01. > :25:05.at generous public expense for a job I've just come across

:25:06. > :25:20.this magazine cover and it kind of sums up the mood

:25:21. > :25:23.of the French people. It's got the five main candidates

:25:24. > :25:27.for President here but it calls them the biggest liar, the biggest cheat,

:25:28. > :25:30.the biggest traitor, the most paranoid, the biggest demagogue,

:25:31. > :25:32.and it says they are the winners The four leading candidates,

:25:33. > :25:43.Le Pen, Melenchon, Macron and Fillon, or in with a chance

:25:44. > :25:46.of making it to the second round. Only a couple of points separates

:25:47. > :25:48.them in the polls, Frankly, no one has a clue what's

:25:49. > :25:54.going to happen. Of the four, there is a feeling that

:25:55. > :26:00.two of them may be President But the two of them may not find

:26:01. > :26:13.themselves in the second round. Somebody said to me that the man or

:26:14. > :26:27.woman on the Paris Metro has as much a chance of knowing

:26:28. > :26:30.who will win as the greatest experts Because the more expert you are

:26:31. > :26:37.the more you may be wrong. The country has largely

:26:38. > :26:42.stagnated for over a decade. One in ten are unemployed,

:26:43. > :26:45.one in four if you are unlucky Like Britain in the '70s there is

:26:46. > :26:49.the pervasive stench There are three keywords that come

:26:50. > :26:56.to mind. Anger, anger at the elite, and in

:26:57. > :27:03.particular the political elite. And an element of

:27:04. > :27:09.nostalgia for the past. These three words were decisive

:27:10. > :27:13.in the Brexit referendum. They are decisive in

:27:14. > :27:24.the French election. Identity and security has been

:27:25. > :27:28.as important in this election France is a proud nation, it worries

:27:29. > :27:35.about its future in Europe It seems bereft of ideas about how

:27:36. > :27:40.to deal with its largely Muslim migrant population, huge chunks of

:27:41. > :27:43.which are increasingly divorced It is quite simply exhausted by

:27:44. > :27:54.the never-ending Islamist terrorist attacks, the latest only days before

:27:55. > :27:57.voting in the iconic heart of this If Fillon or Macron emerge

:27:58. > :28:08.victorious then there will be continuity of sorts, though Fillon

:28:09. > :28:12.will struggle to implement his Thatcherite agenda and Macron will

:28:13. > :28:16.not be able to count on the support of the French parliament, the

:28:17. > :28:19.National Assembly, for his reforms. But if it's Le Pen or Jean-Luc

:28:20. > :28:25.Melenchon then all bets are off. Both are hardline French

:28:26. > :28:28.nationalists, anti the euro, anti the European Union, anti-fiscal

:28:29. > :28:31.discipline, anti the market, Either in the Elysee Palace

:28:32. > :28:40.would represent an existential Brexit would simply become

:28:41. > :28:49.a sideshow, the negotiations could just peter out as Brussels

:28:50. > :28:54.and Berlin had bigger fish to fry. We're joined now from

:28:55. > :29:05.Paris by the journalist 8th Welcome to the programme.

:29:06. > :29:09.Overshadowing the voting today was yet another appalling terrorist

:29:10. > :29:16.attack in Paris on Thursday night. Do we have any indications of how

:29:17. > :29:19.that's playing into the election? That initially people thought this

:29:20. > :29:25.has been almost foiled in that the police were there as a ramp up. One

:29:26. > :29:29.policeman was killed. But the terrorist did not spray the crowd

:29:30. > :29:34.with bullets. It was seen as not having much of an effect on the

:29:35. > :29:41.election. This has changed. We now know the policeman who was killed, a

:29:42. > :29:46.young man about to the promoted, he was at the Bataclan the night of the

:29:47. > :29:53.terror attack. He was a fighter for LGBT rights. The fact he was

:29:54. > :29:59.promoted, happy within his job, he has this fresh face. Sudden, he's

:30:00. > :30:05.one of us. It took perhaps 48 hours for the French to process this. But

:30:06. > :30:11.now they're angry and this may actually change the game, at least

:30:12. > :30:18.at the margins. To whose advantage? I would say the two who might

:30:19. > :30:22.benefit from this are Marine Le Pen, she's been absolutely

:30:23. > :30:27.anti-immigration, anti-anything. And made no bones about it as she

:30:28. > :30:30.immediately made rather strange announcement in which she'd said if

:30:31. > :30:34.she'd been president none of the terror attacks which happened in

:30:35. > :30:42.France would have happened. Francois Fillon has written a book two years

:30:43. > :30:46.ago called Combating Islamic Terrorism he's has an organised plan

:30:47. > :30:50.in his manifesto. Unlike Emmanuel Macron who stumbled when he was

:30:51. > :30:55.asked the evening this happened what he thought, he said, I can't dream

:30:56. > :30:58.up an anti-terror programme overnight. The question, of course,

:30:59. > :31:02.that arrows was this is not the sort of thing that's just happened

:31:03. > :31:08.overnight. It's been unfortunately the fate of France for many years.

:31:09. > :31:13.Let me ask you this finally, what ever the outcome on May 7th in the

:31:14. > :31:19.second round, who ever wins, would it be fair to say French politics

:31:20. > :31:22.will never be the same again? Yes. Absolutely it's a very strange

:31:23. > :31:27.thing. People have no become really excited about this. You cannot go

:31:28. > :31:31.anywhere without people discussing heatedly this election. The anger

:31:32. > :31:38.that was described is very accurate. Very true. There was this feeling as

:31:39. > :31:42.for the Brexit voters and the Trump voters, vast parts of the people

:31:43. > :31:48.were being talked down to by people who despised them. This has to

:31:49. > :31:53.change. If it doesn't change, we cannot predict what the future will

:31:54. > :31:59.be. We'll know the results or at least the ex-the Poll London time

:32:00. > :32:00.tonight at 8.00pm. Thank for joining us from the glorious heart of your

:32:01. > :32:04.city. Now, the Green Party currently has

:32:05. > :32:07.one MP and they'll be contesting many more seats in June

:32:08. > :32:10.as well as hoping to increase their presence on councils in

:32:11. > :32:13.the local elections on 4th May. Launching their campaign

:32:14. > :32:14.on Thursday, co-leader Caroline Lucas made

:32:15. > :32:16.a pitch to younger voters. When it comes to young

:32:17. > :32:18.people they've been But one crucial way they've been

:32:19. > :32:23.betrayed is by what this generation and this government and the previous

:32:24. > :32:26.ones have been doing when it comes We know we had the hottest year

:32:27. > :32:31.on record last year, you know, you almost think what else does

:32:32. > :32:34.the environment need to be doing All the signs are there

:32:35. > :32:37.and it is young people who are going to be bearing

:32:38. > :32:40.the brunt of a wrecked environment and that's why it's so important

:32:41. > :32:44.that when we come to making that pitch to, yes, the country at large

:32:45. > :32:47.but to young people in particular, I think climate change,

:32:48. > :32:48.the environment, looking after our precious resources,

:32:49. > :32:53.has to be up there. And I'm joined now by the Green

:32:54. > :33:08.MEP, Molly Scott Cato. Welcome back to the programme.

:33:09. > :33:11.Promised to scrap university tuition fees, increase NHS funding, rollback

:33:12. > :33:15.cuts to local councils spending, how much would that cost and how would

:33:16. > :33:18.you pay for it? Like the other parties we haven't got a costed

:33:19. > :33:21.manifesto yet, it's only a few days since the election was announced so

:33:22. > :33:25.I will come back and explain the figures. You don't know? Like every

:33:26. > :33:31.party we have not produced accosted manifesto yet, we produced one last

:33:32. > :33:34.time but public spending figures have changed so we're not in a

:33:35. > :33:39.position to do that but we will be in a week or so. What taxes would

:33:40. > :33:43.you like to consider raising? We would consider having higher taxes

:33:44. > :33:45.for the better off in society. I think we need to increase the amount

:33:46. > :33:49.of tax wealthier people pay. think we need to increase the amount

:33:50. > :33:52.of tax wealthier people pay. How do you define better off? I'm not

:33:53. > :33:58.entirely clear what the precise number would be but I think 100,000

:33:59. > :34:01.people would pay a bit more, 150,000 quite considerably more but the real

:34:02. > :34:05.focus needs to be on companies avoiding paying taxes. I work on

:34:06. > :34:08.that a lot in my role in the European Parliament, we see an

:34:09. > :34:11.enormous amount of tax avoidance by companies moving profits from

:34:12. > :34:14.country to country and we need European corporation to make that

:34:15. > :34:21.successful. It has not made much difference yet. We have made lots of

:34:22. > :34:24.changes. Google turned over $1 billion and only paid 25 million in

:34:25. > :34:29.taxes last year. There was a significant fine introduced by the

:34:30. > :34:33.competition commission on Apple and in the case of Google we must change

:34:34. > :34:38.the laws so that people cannot move profits from country to country.

:34:39. > :34:42.Everybody wants to do it. But you couldn't face a big spending

:34:43. > :34:46.programme on the ability to do that. You'd have to increase other taxes.

:34:47. > :34:48.If you look at the cost of free student tuition, tuition fees and

:34:49. > :34:52.also maintenance grants to students, that would come in at about 10

:34:53. > :34:56.billion a year. One way of paying for that would be to remove the

:34:57. > :34:59.upper threshold on National Insurance, bringing in 20 billion a

:35:00. > :35:03.year, that's the order of magnitude we are talking about. It is not

:35:04. > :35:08.vast, and some of the proposals we have... That would be an increase on

:35:09. > :35:14.the better of tax? National Insurance on people earning...

:35:15. > :35:19.People earning above 42,000. You would have another 10% tax above

:35:20. > :35:24.42,000? I can't remember exactly how much the National Insurance rate

:35:25. > :35:28.changes by. But in government figures it would be 28 billion

:35:29. > :35:32.raised. I think it is up to 45, a bit more you pay a marginal rate of

:35:33. > :35:37.40%, you would have them pay a marginal rate of over 50%? We would

:35:38. > :35:41.put the National Insurance rate on higher incomes the same as it is on

:35:42. > :35:45.lower incomes. If you are a school head of an English department on 50,

:35:46. > :35:50.60,000 a year you would face a marginal rate under U of over 50%?

:35:51. > :35:55.It is not useful to do this as a mental maths exercise but if you

:35:56. > :35:59.look at other proposals would could have a landlord licensing system,

:36:00. > :36:02.longer term leases on properties, so young people particularly, but also

:36:03. > :36:06.older people who rent, could have more security which needn't cost

:36:07. > :36:10.anything. We could insist on landlords paying for that. The

:36:11. > :36:14.mental arithmetic seems clear but we will come back to that. How is the

:36:15. > :36:18.Progressive Alliance coming? It is going well, I have heard of a lot of

:36:19. > :36:24.interest at local level. Winterset this in contest, context, lots of

:36:25. > :36:28.progressives are concerned about the crisis in public services, prisons,

:36:29. > :36:32.social care system, and also about the Tories' hard extreme Brexit they

:36:33. > :36:36.are threatening. You want the left to come together? Theresa May has

:36:37. > :36:39.given us opportunity, she has taken a risk because she has problems with

:36:40. > :36:43.backbenchers, she doesn't think she can get through Brexit with a small

:36:44. > :36:47.majority so there is an opportunity and we are saying progressives must

:36:48. > :36:49.come together to corporate, Conservatives are effective at using

:36:50. > :36:54.the first-past-the-post system and we have to become effective as well.

:36:55. > :36:57.Do you accept this Progressive Alliance cannot become the

:36:58. > :37:02.government and Mr Corbyn is the Prime Minister? How could it happen

:37:03. > :37:05.otherwise? I think that is a secondary question. For me the

:37:06. > :37:09.primary question is who do people choose to vote for? Aluminium

:37:10. > :37:13.government afterwards comes after the election. In most countries that

:37:14. > :37:16.is the case. I understand that but we have the system we have and you

:37:17. > :37:19.accept this Progressive Alliance cannot be in power and thus mystical

:37:20. > :37:23.Burmese Prime Minister? Personally I think Mr Corbyn is less of a threat

:37:24. > :37:26.to the country than Theresa May, she has shown herself to be an

:37:27. > :37:32.authoritarian leader and she has said she doesn't want to have

:37:33. > :37:34.dissidents, which I would say is reasonable opposition, and what we

:37:35. > :37:37.are suggesting at the moment is there is a way of avoiding that very

:37:38. > :37:40.hard Brexit and damage to public services. You'd be happy to pay the

:37:41. > :37:44.price of having Mr Corbyn as Prime Minister? I do not see that as a

:37:45. > :37:48.price. People have the choice of Jeremy Corbyn or Theresa May as

:37:49. > :37:52.Prime Minister, that's the system that works. You would prefer Mr

:37:53. > :37:55.Corbyn? I would but votes are translated into seats and the

:37:56. > :38:06.Progressive Alliance is a step towards that.

:38:07. > :38:08.Hello and welcome to Sunday Politics in Northern Ireland.

:38:09. > :38:12.And here we go again with our second trip to the polls this year,

:38:13. > :38:18.And throw in a new talks deadline set for the end of that month,

:38:19. > :38:20.and we could be looking at yet another Assembly vote before

:38:21. > :38:25.I'll be asking the five main parties how Theresa May's decision to call

:38:26. > :38:29.a snap general election is affecting the negotiations here.

:38:30. > :38:38.And we'll be talking pacts, party policies and Brexit.

:38:39. > :38:43.With another snap election coming, a new talks deadline looming

:38:44. > :38:44.and Brexit overshadowing everything, the world of politics

:38:45. > :38:51.The Assembly election posters are no sooner down than they're about to be

:38:52. > :38:54.replaced by the next wave of smiling faces and party colours.

:38:55. > :38:56.But while some parties here have welcomed the forthcoming

:38:57. > :38:59.vote, others have been much less enthusiastic.

:39:00. > :39:01.In a moment, I'll be asking representatives of the five main

:39:02. > :39:04.parties to set out their stalls in the first television debate

:39:05. > :39:14.But first, a reminder of how we got to where we are.

:39:15. > :39:19.I have just chaired a meeting of the Cabinet where we agreed that the

:39:20. > :39:26.Government should call a general election to be held on June 8th. I

:39:27. > :39:29.think it is almost arguing there is too much democracy. This is the

:39:30. > :39:33.democratic process. We need people to come out and cast their vote and

:39:34. > :39:38.not to complain about the results afterwards. So my appeal to everyone

:39:39. > :39:41.is, make sure you are registered and usual vote wisely. And we are as

:39:42. > :39:46.keen people to vote for the Unionist Party you can trust and the party of

:39:47. > :39:50.strength in this Parliament. This is now the centre of British and Irish

:39:51. > :39:55.politics and we must make sure that we take this place by storm. It is

:39:56. > :40:01.disappointing that an election is taking place, but the SDLP is up for

:40:02. > :40:08.the election and we will be fighting that election not on the premise

:40:09. > :40:12.that Mrs May wants to fight this election on the premise of a hard

:40:13. > :40:16.Brexit, we have always been a strong pro-European party and we have

:40:17. > :40:20.fought on that stance. There will be discussions over where we can come

:40:21. > :40:25.to the best agreements around some constituencies, that should not be a

:40:26. > :40:27.shock. We want to make sure that we have representation in Westminster

:40:28. > :40:31.for the people of Northern Ireland and there is no point electing

:40:32. > :40:34.people that will not take their seats in Westminster and give the

:40:35. > :40:40.people a voice. Sinn Fein will fight the election on an anti-Brexit

:40:41. > :40:45.ticket and we will vote with the public who voted in the majority to

:40:46. > :40:48.stay within the union. We will ask them to vote and anti-austerity Tory

:40:49. > :40:51.policy and we will fight the election campaign on that basis in

:40:52. > :40:57.the next six weeks. We're not interested in doing pacts with

:40:58. > :41:00.anyone and it will reduce the selection into yet another sectarian

:41:01. > :41:04.headcount. If people want a Progressive Alliance, they will get

:41:05. > :41:07.it by voting for the Alliance Party, we are the progressive Alliance in

:41:08. > :41:09.Northern Ireland, we do not need to form a pact with anyone else to do

:41:10. > :41:11.that. Joining me now from our Foyle studio

:41:12. > :41:14.is the SDLP MP Mark Durkan. And with me in studio

:41:15. > :41:17.are the East Belfast MP Gavin Robinson, from the DUP,

:41:18. > :41:19.Sinn Fein's Chris Hazzard. The UUP's MP for Fermanagh

:41:20. > :41:21.and South Tyrone, Tom Elliott. And the Alliance Party's deputy

:41:22. > :41:26.leader, Stephen Farry. Tom Elliott, you've been confirmed

:41:27. > :41:28.as your party's candidate Are you confident you'll be

:41:29. > :41:41.an agreed unionist candidate again, That is a matter of discussions over

:41:42. > :41:45.the next number of days, but I don't see why not, I would hope so, but

:41:46. > :41:48.that is a matter for the party leaders to discuss within the

:41:49. > :41:54.Unionist parties. Clearly, it was successful the last time and we had

:41:55. > :41:58.arrangements in other areas as well that were also successful. For other

:41:59. > :42:01.parties. Yes, I don't see why not and the key is to give more

:42:02. > :42:04.representation of Westminster than we actually can. What is confusing

:42:05. > :42:06.for some people is that... Robin Swann is meeting Arlene Foster

:42:07. > :42:09.this week to discuss the election, but your party has already stepped

:42:10. > :42:11.aside in three constituencies - Why have you given away some

:42:12. > :42:15.of your key bargaining chips before you've even

:42:16. > :42:24.entered into negotiations? We have been proactive, Robbyn Swan

:42:25. > :42:29.has been proactive to this -- and we have taken the decision to do that

:42:30. > :42:32.so why would we not? Why would you give up bargaining chips before you

:42:33. > :42:38.begin the negotiations? What we have said is we would put the Dutch

:42:39. > :42:41.prefer to see representatives going to Westminster and for those seats

:42:42. > :42:44.under pressure from those parties who may not go to Westminster and

:42:45. > :42:50.represent their constituents. But also people in what -- Northern

:42:51. > :42:55.Ireland, that is key and we want people to go to Westminster and

:42:56. > :42:59.represent their constituencies. Why give up a place like North Belfast

:43:00. > :43:04.without trying to secure something in return? Because we have taken a

:43:05. > :43:07.proactive decision of the party. You have given something away without

:43:08. > :43:11.getting anything in return, that is not normally a good bargaining

:43:12. > :43:15.tactic. What we have been as very strategic and proactive. I don't see

:43:16. > :43:20.how people in the wider community could blame us for being proactive

:43:21. > :43:24.in that way. Do you understand why the Ulster Unionist Party done what

:43:25. > :43:28.they have done? They did not give any rationale is today for doing it.

:43:29. > :43:34.Has Tom Elliott explained it to your satisfaction now? The Ulster

:43:35. > :43:38.Unionists would likely lose a deposit if they stood in a

:43:39. > :43:42.Westminster election, but it is strange when you consider the gambit

:43:43. > :43:47.of Northern Ireland seats available. For example, in Foyle, you're Steve

:43:48. > :43:54.Unionist are giving the SDLP a step up and for many years, Mark Durkan

:43:55. > :43:59.has relied on votes for unionists in that constituency. And the same

:44:00. > :44:04.SDLP, six weeks ago, they said the vote for Ulster Unionists and get

:44:05. > :44:08.SDLP and himself in Belfast, it is about getting the SDLP out. And the

:44:09. > :44:16.SDLP appeared to be getting into discussions that will go after Tom

:44:17. > :44:25.in Fermanagh and South Tyrone, so I don't understand it. Would you agree

:44:26. > :44:29.to be a candidate in East Belfast? Quite relaxed about the political

:44:30. > :44:34.landscape. There has been analysis to suggest it would not be much

:44:35. > :44:39.different than 2015. Most notably by Bill White, a well-respected

:44:40. > :44:45.electoral analysis in Northern Ireland. Since 2010, there have been

:44:46. > :44:50.eight elections in Northern Ireland and in East Belfast, the DUP have

:44:51. > :44:55.become the largest party in each of those elections and only one of

:44:56. > :44:59.which was that a pact. If there is a Brexit fight, and quite relaxed. So

:45:00. > :45:04.you fancy your chances perfectly well if there is an Ulster Unionist

:45:05. > :45:08.candidate in East Belfast against Naomi Long? I'm quite relaxed, the

:45:09. > :45:11.party which it will have a discussion this week with the Ulster

:45:12. > :45:16.Unionist Party and we will see what happens. Do you accept Tom Elliott

:45:17. > :45:24.realistically only has a chance of voting Fermanagh and South Tyrone,

:45:25. > :45:29.and there is a lot of pressure on the DUP to meet him halfway? I work

:45:30. > :45:36.with Tom every week and he is doing a first-class job for his

:45:37. > :45:38.constituents and his victory was Unionist Corporation and that is

:45:39. > :45:43.something unionists across Northern Ireland have been asking for two

:45:44. > :45:47.years. I would rather have Tom Elliott as the returned Member of

:45:48. > :45:52.Parliament for Fermanagh and South Tyrone rather than an abstention is

:45:53. > :45:54.the Sinn Fein MP who might howl in the wind about what goes on in

:45:55. > :45:58.Westminster, but will never take their seat and have their voice and

:45:59. > :46:04.never speak up for their people in Westminster. What you make of that?

:46:05. > :46:07.If Tom Elliott is the agreed Unionist candidate, that is not good

:46:08. > :46:10.news for whoever the Sinn Fein candidate is in Fermanagh and South

:46:11. > :46:15.Tyrone, and presumably there is every possibility that it could be

:46:16. > :46:21.Michelle Gilder? Could you shed any light? No doubt like plenty of

:46:22. > :46:25.constituents across the North of the discussion will continue to take

:46:26. > :46:30.place ahead of selection. One thing is clear, if March's election was

:46:31. > :46:34.about the RHI scandal and the arrogance of the DUP, this is going

:46:35. > :46:38.to be very much about the Brexit and let's live in the real world. There

:46:39. > :46:42.can be plenty of howling at Westminster benches but the centre

:46:43. > :46:46.of gravity is Brussels, and looking for special designated status, it is

:46:47. > :46:49.stubborn. A key factor is lost in this, the British Governor Taft two

:46:50. > :46:55.years to agree a Brexit deal and they only need a majority of states,

:46:56. > :46:59.27 states. If it takes longer, which will likely happen, they need

:47:00. > :47:03.agreement of every single one of the other 27 states which means Dublin

:47:04. > :47:08.will play a key role. It is the biggest party in Ireland and Sinn

:47:09. > :47:11.Fein stands ready to be the main opposition to Brexit. Would you like

:47:12. > :47:14.a coalition of remain as in somewhere like Fermanagh and South

:47:15. > :47:18.Tyrone to get rid of Tom Elliott because he is at happy and

:47:19. > :47:24.enthusiastic about Brexit? I think this election presents an

:47:25. > :47:27.opportunity for a nonsectarian Progressive Alliance which has been

:47:28. > :47:31.talked about in Britain and here, especially in opposition to what I

:47:32. > :47:39.view as a regressive prosperity and probe recs it Alliance of the DUP

:47:40. > :47:42.and the UUP and the Tories. I think there is a desire in the community

:47:43. > :47:48.and of that plays another constituencies as it may well do, I

:47:49. > :47:53.have every faith in Sinn Fein. Would you like to see something like that

:47:54. > :47:56.happening in a place like East Belfast, Gavin Robinson? Without

:47:57. > :48:00.getting into specifics, I think there is an appetite for it across

:48:01. > :48:06.the board. Some constituencies will go for it and some will not. I think

:48:07. > :48:10.we now have an historic opportunity for a nonsectarian, cross community,

:48:11. > :48:16.Progressive Alliance. If we were to protect the democratic wishes of the

:48:17. > :48:20.56% in the North, it is a chance for progressives to stand up. There is

:48:21. > :48:24.speculation in at least one newspaper today that your party

:48:25. > :48:28.would be keen to see no SDLP Commission fine or a Green candidate

:48:29. > :48:33.in East Belfast to give the Alliance Party and Naomi Long the best chance

:48:34. > :48:37.of taking that seat, is that correct, Mark Durkan? No, people

:48:38. > :48:41.will do all sorts of speculation to reflect the conversations that I

:48:42. > :48:45.have not been party to. But Colum Eastwood has set out early on as

:48:46. > :48:48.soon as the reason I called the election that there was a case for

:48:49. > :48:54.saying when she was calling the election about giving her a stronger

:48:55. > :48:59.hand in terms of Brexit, but it is also a free hand in welfare cuts

:49:00. > :49:04.that affect working families as well as lining up behind Donald Trump on

:49:05. > :49:08.various military misadventures. In those circumstances, Colum Eastwood

:49:09. > :49:11.said we have a duty to maximise that pro-remain vote that those people

:49:12. > :49:17.who want to mitigate the impact of Brexit in terms of the economy here

:49:18. > :49:20.and also to safeguard the institutions of the Good Friday

:49:21. > :49:24.Agreement, that is what we are trying to do. But that would have to

:49:25. > :49:28.be done clearly on a nonsectarian basis and across the parties and

:49:29. > :49:32.that could take forward nonparty voices as well. But your party

:49:33. > :49:36.leader is quoted in the Sunday Times today as saying you will give Naomi

:49:37. > :49:41.Long the time and space to reconsider her opposition to the

:49:42. > :49:47.idea of an anti-Brexit packed and she wants no part of any pact. I

:49:48. > :49:52.would regret the fact that Naomi has described the move in the term she

:49:53. > :49:57.has. The fact is the Alliance Party in the past have seen fit to step

:49:58. > :50:01.aside in different constituencies as people needed to be selective about

:50:02. > :50:06.where we stood in elections when the wider issues at stake. Only a couple

:50:07. > :50:10.of days ago, Naomi said if the talks at Stormont do not succeed, we could

:50:11. > :50:14.be in danger of direct rule for years. The idea of a heart Brexit

:50:15. > :50:18.and possible direct rule if we are to believe what Naomi said about the

:50:19. > :50:23.risk of direct rule, in those circumstances, people would need to

:50:24. > :50:25.think about how we use the opportunity in what is the

:50:26. > :50:30.difficulty of a first past the post election of giving people a more

:50:31. > :50:34.feasible choice. Because in a first past the post election, people are

:50:35. > :50:39.just reduce the tactical voting and all sorts of considerations. Very

:50:40. > :50:43.candid people a higher and better choice, let's try. I do not believe

:50:44. > :50:46.it will be easy to do so and it may not prove feasible, but we should

:50:47. > :50:50.give that consideration to it and reflect on what we have done in the

:50:51. > :50:55.past because we have not all run in every constituency in the past.

:50:56. > :51:01.Let's put that is now to Stephen Ferry, does that not make sense for

:51:02. > :51:05.your party not to be facing opposition from the SDLP, Sinn Fein

:51:06. > :51:09.and the Green Party in East Belfast on June 8th? If they macro is

:51:10. > :51:14.serious about taking that seat from Gavin Robinson, she needs a tight

:51:15. > :51:18.field to do so -- of Naomi Long is serious. Elections are about choice

:51:19. > :51:22.and people were what it out for themselves. Is it about choice or

:51:23. > :51:28.winning seats, it is not the same thing? The choices will be framed

:51:29. > :51:31.between Naomi and the Alliance Party and Gavin and the DUP and voters

:51:32. > :51:35.will respond in kind, but parties have a duty to put their manifestos

:51:36. > :51:41.before the electorate in every constituency. Pacts do not work,

:51:42. > :51:44.they are anti-democratic about restricting choice rather than

:51:45. > :51:48.facilitating a different type of choice. And there is a very big

:51:49. > :51:52.mistake, if we are trying to conflate what is happening around

:51:53. > :51:56.Brexit with what is essentially a cross Nationalist pact to combat

:51:57. > :51:59.across Unionist pact, reducing Northern Ireland back to the

:52:00. > :52:03.politics of the sectarian headcount which is contrary to where we are

:52:04. > :52:08.trying to get the society, it would stand in contrast with a large vote

:52:09. > :52:11.we received back in the March Assembly elections. Brexit is

:52:12. > :52:15.something that affects people across the community, unionists and

:52:16. > :52:21.Nationalists alike. We make a fundamental mistake if we conflate

:52:22. > :52:24.opposing Brexit without a portion of nationalism. There is a perception

:52:25. > :52:29.that some people are using the danger of a heart Brexit is a cause

:52:30. > :52:31.to destabilise Northern Ireland and pursue wider political objectives

:52:32. > :52:39.and we do not want to be part of that agenda. You do presumably want

:52:40. > :52:43.to win East Belfast? The track 2015 combined vote of Sinn Fein and the

:52:44. > :52:48.Green candidates was 2008, that is a lot of votes and could make all the

:52:49. > :52:52.difference with a tight race with Gavin Robinson. People will draw the

:52:53. > :52:56.conclusions from that if they vote for other parties but that is the

:52:57. > :52:59.choice they have to make. People that vote for those parties will

:53:00. > :53:03.vote irrespective of who else is on the ticket and we make an error if

:53:04. > :53:05.we assume people are there to respond to the cues from party

:53:06. > :53:10.leaders and shift their vote when they are told to do so, that is not

:53:11. > :53:14.how people vote in most democracies, they think for themselves and draw

:53:15. > :53:19.their own conclusions. Some people may reckon this is a two horse race

:53:20. > :53:23.and others do not. Tony, what about the speculation that Mike Nesbitt

:53:24. > :53:29.may be a candidate in South Belfast for the Ulster Unionist Party, can

:53:30. > :53:34.you confirm that? It took me by surprise yesterday in the Telegraph.

:53:35. > :53:38.Does it make sense? It is an option some people are considering but I do

:53:39. > :53:43.not know where it came from and if the association had mooted at

:53:44. > :53:46.themselves in South Belfast. He was an agreed candidate in South

:53:47. > :53:49.Belfast, in these discussions between Robin Swann and Arlene

:53:50. > :53:54.Foster, if you could persuade the DUP not to run in South Belfast, he

:53:55. > :53:56.might have a good shout. He may well do and the parties will have a

:53:57. > :54:00.discussion about that over the coming week. Would you like to see

:54:01. > :54:04.that happening and would you throw your weight behind that suggestion?

:54:05. > :54:08.I am throwing my weight behind them having discussions and if that is an

:54:09. > :54:12.issue that comes out of it, so be it. Just touching Brexit, I know

:54:13. > :54:18.that Chris and Mark have talked about Brexit and their opposition to

:54:19. > :54:21.it and at least mocks somewhat is more realistic about it when he says

:54:22. > :54:27.to mitigate about the difficulties it may pose, and Chris is saying his

:54:28. > :54:33.outright opposition to Brexit. May I remind people of the vote is taken

:54:34. > :54:37.place by the UK and we will have Brexit and we need to have the best

:54:38. > :54:41.deal possible in Westminster and that is relevant in my constituency

:54:42. > :54:44.in Fermanagh and South Tyrone. You have confirmed there will be

:54:45. > :54:49.conversations between Robin Swann and Arlene Foster to maximise the

:54:50. > :54:54.unionist representation and those discussions will take place this

:54:55. > :55:00.week. But two months ago, you're third-party leader Mike Nesbitt

:55:01. > :55:04.stood up and said, vote Mike and get Colum Eastwood, has that been

:55:05. > :55:08.replaced by vote Robin, get Arlene? No, I am not sure where that comes

:55:09. > :55:12.from. Vote Robin and get Arlene is not the way of it. That is what the

:55:13. > :55:17.discussions will be about this week. The reality is if we can maximise

:55:18. > :55:22.the number of representatives in Westminster, so much the better.

:55:23. > :55:29.That would be very important. I know even prior to this, Stephen himself

:55:30. > :55:33.stood down in 2001 to facilitate another candidate. So agreements

:55:34. > :55:37.have been ongoing for years and I can still remember the Bobby Sands

:55:38. > :55:43.election when Sinn Fein and the SDLP agreed they would not run and

:55:44. > :55:48.support Bobby Sands. So this has been going on for years and is still

:55:49. > :55:51.going on. Chris has not been written off as the possibility of a packed

:55:52. > :55:57.between his party and a number of others.

:55:58. > :56:01.I'd word is that Stav Danaos Westminster election? Is your

:56:02. > :56:09.relationship with the Ulster Unionists has changed dramatically.

:56:10. > :56:12.This is the difficulty of the first past the post system. We were

:56:13. > :56:17.negotiating the Good Friday Agreement we tried to get the first

:56:18. > :56:20.past the post system on the table. Unfortunately, Tony Blair would not

:56:21. > :56:25.move even though he clearly have the majority of us in the position where

:56:26. > :56:29.he could have done it, because he said that the kind of sectarian

:56:30. > :56:34.impulses that are thrown up by that system would confound the sort of

:56:35. > :56:39.ethic they were trying to create with the power-sharing agenda. That

:56:40. > :56:45.will not change. We have to accept that. I recognise, what is going on

:56:46. > :56:49.and the fact is that we are seeing a two party packed in terms of certain

:56:50. > :56:55.constituencies coming forward in relation to unionism and I do not

:56:56. > :56:58.believe the answer to that is a two party national is packed. It was

:56:59. > :57:03.quite clear at the terms that Colum Eastwood set out the agenda for it

:57:04. > :57:08.the access to try and reflect the broad will of the people here to

:57:09. > :57:12.remain and that is to avoid a hard Brexit and that is to use the

:57:13. > :57:14.institutions of the Good Friday Agreement to answer a lot of the

:57:15. > :57:19.challenges that brags that would throw up. That is a legitimate

:57:20. > :57:24.offer, but we don't have a lot of time to spend on it and let's

:57:25. > :57:29.consider that and if it is not going to happen, then move on and fight

:57:30. > :57:32.the campaign on the issues, not just Brexit but also welfare reform, that

:57:33. > :57:37.we will see even more of now, because the Tories were only

:57:38. > :57:39.committed to not doing you welfare cuts in the current Parliament.

:57:40. > :57:43.There will be free to come forward with cuts of the future and that is

:57:44. > :57:47.why the people need a strong representation and a voice in

:57:48. > :57:52.Westminster at least to speak up. We will not be able to stop Tory cuts

:57:53. > :57:58.that they have a swingeing majority, but we will say it does not matter.

:57:59. > :58:02.Gavin Robinson, are you fundamentally in the selection,

:58:03. > :58:06.which is only six and a half weeks away, taking on that progress of

:58:07. > :58:09.access that several of our contributors have already referred

:58:10. > :58:14.to in our discussion today? Is that what this election is about as far

:58:15. > :58:19.as the DUP is concerned? We have set out our stall. Is that with the

:58:20. > :58:24.election will be about? That is the way it has been framed. It is an

:58:25. > :58:30.anti-unionist Alliance, we can see that clearly and I think Alliance

:58:31. > :58:36.are almost scared. How is it that when there are a Unionist candidates

:58:37. > :58:43.are pro-remain-macro? Danny Kinahan is in support. Danny Kinahan is

:58:44. > :58:47.backing Brexit. He voted for Article 50 and understands the will of the

:58:48. > :58:53.United Kingdom people and is getting on with the process. Where he has

:58:54. > :58:58.come from is a different place from where you and Tom Elliott have come

:58:59. > :59:04.from? He is progressing Brexit. I would imagine he would be a target

:59:05. > :59:09.for an anti-Brexit access. There is hard and soft Brexit and probably

:59:10. > :59:12.something in between. It is called clean Brexit. Chris said that the

:59:13. > :59:20.only people who would be talking for Ireland would -- for Northern

:59:21. > :59:24.Ireland would be Ireland. They do not take their seats, they will not

:59:25. > :59:27.have a say in Westminster. They can have a say in Northern Ireland

:59:28. > :59:30.Executive, which we would love to see restored. We would love to see

:59:31. > :59:34.local devolved government and we would like to see an agreed position

:59:35. > :59:39.on the needs of Northern Ireland. Sinn Fein says that is their

:59:40. > :59:47.position as well. They pulled it down! For selfish reasons. For

:59:48. > :59:50.selfish party political reasons, they have pulled the Northern

:59:51. > :59:54.Ireland government down, they have not allow the restoration of the

:59:55. > :59:58.institutions and we do not have a budget, we have public services in

:59:59. > :00:02.chaos and if they want to have a voice on Brexit, we need to restore

:00:03. > :00:06.our Assembly. Martin McGuiness spelt out clearly why he was resigning.

:00:07. > :00:11.The electric came out in numbers not seen since the days of the Good

:00:12. > :00:18.Friday Agreement to support Martin McGuiness and support the Sinn Fein

:00:19. > :00:23.stance -- the electorate came out. Sinn Fein is the biggest political

:00:24. > :00:28.party on this island, we have more in EP 's than any other party so

:00:29. > :00:40.when the European Council's guidelines are published,... When

:00:41. > :00:44.they supported our position of special designated starters, it was

:00:45. > :00:48.because we brought to bear. Mark Durkan just said that you cannot

:00:49. > :00:52.stop anything in Westminster, but you can speak up about it. Sinn Fein

:00:53. > :00:57.are about more than speaking up about things, we want to stop

:00:58. > :01:05.Brexit. You cannot speak about it in Westminster, you do not take your

:01:06. > :01:11.seats. This is an historic opportunity to stand up. There is a

:01:12. > :01:16.great opportunity and get special designated staters is on the agenda

:01:17. > :01:21.because Sinn Fein put it there, about people coming out... Let me

:01:22. > :01:26.bring in Mark Durkan. Just on the question of special status, Cynthia

:01:27. > :01:30.and jeered at that whenever Colum Eastwood and the SDLP talked about

:01:31. > :01:38.it after the referendum campaign -- Sinn Fein. Let us be clear, I am

:01:39. > :01:43.being honest with people, I do not pretend that we can stop things.

:01:44. > :01:47.Sinn Fein fought the last election telling people to stop the Tory

:01:48. > :01:51.welfare cuts and then they handed power so that the Tories would

:01:52. > :01:54.introduce them. They put in a legislated consent motion which

:01:55. > :02:00.meant that Westminster put in welfare cuts which came into place

:02:01. > :02:04.last week. That is in terms of employment and work related

:02:05. > :02:08.activity. The recent cuts that have come in because of that motion that

:02:09. > :02:11.you were part of last year, there is no mitigation on those that is

:02:12. > :02:15.particular to Northern Ireland whatsoever and there will not be

:02:16. > :02:19.until we get our own institutions up and running again. I want to bring

:02:20. > :02:24.in Stephen Farry. There is a real danger of us missing the boat around

:02:25. > :02:31.the special deal. The parties are talking about but we have heard from

:02:32. > :02:35.the European Commission in terms of their negotiating timescale. I want

:02:36. > :02:40.to address -- they want to address the Irish issues. For all the talk

:02:41. > :02:45.about Westminster and Dail, unless there is an Executive and we have a

:02:46. > :02:49.commitment to a special deal and an agreed negotiating position, we will

:02:50. > :02:53.not be able to do anything for Northern Ireland and we will see a

:02:54. > :03:00.hard Brexit on our local situation. There is a real danger fund -- off a

:03:01. > :03:04.tragedy until we get an Executive in place. Time is running out and we

:03:05. > :03:09.need the civil service to work with us. A lot of people are saying that

:03:10. > :03:15.this general election is an timely and is a sideshow. Where does that

:03:16. > :03:21.leave the devolution project? The talks are in cold storage. In

:03:22. > :03:28.theory, the talks are proceeding but there is no momentum. They may well

:03:29. > :03:33.peter out before the election. We will then have three weeks after the

:03:34. > :03:38.Westminster election until this new deadline comes to pass. Already we

:03:39. > :03:44.have no budget or plan for Brexit and we are in danger of governance

:03:45. > :03:49.falling apart, our health service is in crisis and issues are stacking

:03:50. > :03:53.up. This becomes a further distraction with the election. We

:03:54. > :03:58.have a timescale around Brexit that needs to be addressed. If we do not

:03:59. > :04:02.get this right, we are facing a real tragedy. Where are we on the wider

:04:03. > :04:20.devolution project? You were the chief spokesperson for your

:04:21. > :04:22.party during the stocks. Have we forgotten completely about Stormont

:04:23. > :04:24.until we deal with this issue. It appears to be that it is in cold

:04:25. > :04:27.storage. There has been little momentum from the elections. Sinn

:04:28. > :04:29.Fein have been putting red lines down saying we will not cross that

:04:30. > :04:34.unless this is agreed. All the other parties have been saying we are here

:04:35. > :04:39.to negotiate and try and get A.D. And try and manage the process and

:04:40. > :04:49.get devolution back up and running. -- try and get a deal. The DUP have

:04:50. > :04:55.put down red line as well, no Irish language act. At least they are

:04:56. > :05:00.discussing it. They are discussing Irish language but as far as I know

:05:01. > :05:07.they had not accepted an Irish language act. That is a red line.

:05:08. > :05:14.The issue with Sinn Fein, they have said they are not going to restore

:05:15. > :05:23.the Executive over and -- and Arda Turan which act. Is that still a red

:05:24. > :05:30.line? -- and Irish language act. Are we seriously suggesting... The

:05:31. > :05:35.vacuum last night that saw upon being placed outside a primary

:05:36. > :05:38.school to kill police officers, that is continuing because of the Sinn

:05:39. > :05:44.Fein desire for an Irish language act. They said this was about

:05:45. > :05:48.honouring previous agreements, they never had an agreement with us.

:05:49. > :05:54.Restore devolution, get the Executive back up and running. It is

:05:55. > :05:59.not about negotiating a new deal, all these things have been agreed,

:06:00. > :06:03.it is about implementing what was agreed previously. The demand for an

:06:04. > :06:07.Irish language act, it is not the demand from Sinn Fein, we are asking

:06:08. > :06:11.for it, but there is an Irish language community who have said

:06:12. > :06:16.that enough is enough. Is that enough to hold up the restoration of

:06:17. > :06:24.devolution in Northern Ireland? Whim we are in this pickle? That is a

:06:25. > :06:27.question for the DUP and the British Government to ponder. I don't think

:06:28. > :06:30.it is, I think we need to implement this right away. In the meantime,

:06:31. > :06:35.you're determined that you are not moving and that remains a red line.

:06:36. > :06:40.This has already been agreed and I welcome some of the movement. I want

:06:41. > :06:49.to bring in Mark Durcan. Can you square the circle? -- Mark Durkan.

:06:50. > :06:53.It is important to make sure our institutions are up and running if

:06:54. > :06:58.we are going to address the issues. The best answer to the Brexit

:06:59. > :07:02.challenge is to use the Strand which allows us to work on a north and

:07:03. > :07:08.South basis in many sectors with areas of co-operation which Europe

:07:09. > :07:11.would want to support. We cannot have strand to as the answer to the

:07:12. > :07:13.Brexit challenge unless we have strand one working as well. Thank

:07:14. > :07:15.you. Now, with a look at a particularly

:07:16. > :07:19.busy week in the political world, here's Stephen Walker with

:07:20. > :07:32.Sixty Seconds. Only one place to start, as Theresa

:07:33. > :07:38.May caught everyone out. There should be unity here in Westminster,

:07:39. > :07:42.but instead, there is division. The country is coming together, but

:07:43. > :07:46.Westminster is not. Not everyone was happy with the impact on Northern

:07:47. > :07:49.Ireland. The British Government do not want a power-sharing Executive

:07:50. > :07:54.to work here because they do not want an Executive that will take a

:07:55. > :07:58.firm stand against Brexit. This leaves Northern Ireland in the lurch

:07:59. > :08:10.particularly with respect to the ongoing talks process. There was

:08:11. > :08:12.talk about voting packs. There are discussions that are important

:08:13. > :08:14.because there is a request from unionism to have greater

:08:15. > :08:16.collaboration. We will not do a packed with one party to keep out

:08:17. > :08:18.other parties from other communities. There was annoyance

:08:19. > :08:21.over one talks deadline passing. I am disappointed that deadlines that

:08:22. > :08:25.were placed for the 2nd of May are now unlikely to be met. Another one

:08:26. > :08:34.came along soon enough, June the 29th.

:08:35. > :08:40.And let's hear now from my Guests of the Day -

:08:41. > :08:43.Allison Morris, of the Irish News, and the columnist Newton Emerson.

:08:44. > :08:49.I asked Mark Durkan, any optimism he could give people watching the

:08:50. > :08:52.programme who perhaps had not taken anything terribly optimistic out of

:08:53. > :08:57.the conversation. Are there are reasons to be positive about the

:08:58. > :09:02.campaign. Going on that discussion, very little reason. Regardless of

:09:03. > :09:06.what has been said, it is clear this is another referendum on Brexit and

:09:07. > :09:13.you can see that from what the politicians are saying. We are

:09:14. > :09:17.dividing into two camps. I think this will be the election or you may

:09:18. > :09:22.see some floating voters changing and going towards other pro-or

:09:23. > :09:26.anti-Brexit parties. There will be interesting, for the likes of Tom

:09:27. > :09:28.Elliott in the border constituencies, it will be

:09:29. > :09:34.interesting to see which way the soft unionist vote goes because

:09:35. > :09:36.there were no real answers given to what the definitive role, especially

:09:37. > :09:40.the Ulster Unionist Party, if they do not manage to retain their seats,

:09:41. > :09:51.they are more or less finished. We know in the run-up to the last

:09:52. > :09:54.Assembly election, we said their message was confused and the voters

:09:55. > :09:57.did not react well, and it still seems confused. When we get into

:09:58. > :09:59.this, do you think we will still be talking about Brexit will we be

:10:00. > :10:01.talking about those issues that we always talk about in Northern

:10:02. > :10:04.Ireland elections? I think there will be a determined effort to keep

:10:05. > :10:10.the focus on Brexit, that is what is different about this election and

:10:11. > :10:16.that is the for nationalism. DUP and Sinn Fein are now drawing level and

:10:17. > :10:19.that has been seen coming for decades but it was always assumed

:10:20. > :10:22.that the group in the middle, Alliance and the Green Party would

:10:23. > :10:28.be the meat in that Sam Wood and they would moderate between them.

:10:29. > :10:32.Brexit enables Nationalists to make a bid for going into the middle

:10:33. > :10:36.territory and that is wide Naomi Long is so determined, I believe, to

:10:37. > :10:39.keep clear of that, because if she ends up on what will be seen by

:10:40. > :10:45.unionist as the nationalist side, the centre ground is gone. I wanted

:10:46. > :10:49.to ask you about the unilateral move by Robin Swann and the Ulster

:10:50. > :10:53.Unionists to not stand in three constituencies. Gavin Robinson said

:10:54. > :10:56.he is still a bit bewildering as to why that has happened outside the

:10:57. > :11:20.negotiations that will happen this week.

:11:21. > :11:24.It is because both parties are still very much competing with each other

:11:25. > :11:26.and unionism's great gift or cursed, it seems to be able to organise to

:11:27. > :11:29.pact without organising a pact between the two parties. They seem

:11:30. > :11:31.to be able to slot themselves into a de facto pact without being on

:11:32. > :11:34.speaking terms. What about a closer working relationship between the

:11:35. > :11:37.SDLP and Sinn Fein? It would be more beneficial to Sinn Fein and the SDLP

:11:38. > :11:39.and the SDLP know that. That is why they are talking about pacts with

:11:40. > :11:42.pro-opposition parties, rather than going into a pact with Sinn Fein,

:11:43. > :11:44.because if you look at the marginal seats in places where the SDLP are

:11:45. > :11:47.in trouble, I do not think that packs with Sinn Fein would do them

:11:48. > :11:51.much good at this stage, it would generally benefit Sinn Fein in

:11:52. > :11:56.places like north Belfast. There was still a bit of animosity between

:11:57. > :12:01.Chris Hazard and Mark Durkan. It is very tetchy. We came from an

:12:02. > :12:04.election that was quite savage and Sinn Fein did well. At this point in

:12:05. > :12:08.time they do not really need the help of the SDLP whereas clearly the

:12:09. > :12:17.SDLP would clearly need the help of Sinn Fein. I am still intrigued,

:12:18. > :12:24.vote Mike, get Colum, has that been replaced by get -- vote Robin, get

:12:25. > :12:28.Arlene. It is not necessarily confusing, because Mike Nesbitt are

:12:29. > :12:32.organised the last unionist pact and he made a clear distinction between

:12:33. > :12:37.Westminster and Stormont elections. It took him six months to do that

:12:38. > :12:41.and it still was not completely satisfactory. The reason they might

:12:42. > :12:45.be some confusion over what the UUP is up to because Mike Nesbitt like

:12:46. > :12:52.to be a unionist pact builder in Westminster elections and then

:12:53. > :12:58.portray himself as a moderate. I don't think that Robin Swann will be

:12:59. > :13:03.as squeamish as that. How do you see this developing over the next few

:13:04. > :13:06.weeks and the talks which are meant to still be happening in parallel,

:13:07. > :13:11.but everyone seems to agree, frankly nothing will happen on that front?

:13:12. > :13:15.If those talks were not going anywhere, whether the result of an

:13:16. > :13:19.election or not. There was little momentum in them before there was an

:13:20. > :13:23.extension given and I realise that they are more structured but they

:13:24. > :13:27.are not talks that have achieved anything in regards to those red

:13:28. > :13:31.lives. Those are the big ticket things, the legacy issues, things to

:13:32. > :13:34.do with the Irish language act and other issues that are an result they

:13:35. > :13:40.will not be resolved before this election or the next talks deadline

:13:41. > :13:45.and not resolved as we go into the marching season. James Brokenshire

:13:46. > :13:46.becomes a candidate more than anything else. We have to leave it

:13:47. > :13:47.there. That's it from Sunday

:13:48. > :13:49.Politics for today. Join me on Thursday, when I'll be

:13:50. > :13:53.back with The View on BBC1 at 10:40. Until then, from all

:13:54. > :14:28.the team, bye-bye. There'll be a couple of hours of

:14:29. > :14:31.just fantastic music, really, all the Ella classics, as well as

:14:32. > :14:34.some very special guests,