:01:37. > :01:42.And the new leader of the Ulster Unionists wants it to be a party
:01:42. > :01:52.for everyone. I will be asking him if it is enough to reverse his
:01:52. > :01:52.
:01:52. > :35:07.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1995 seconds
:35:07. > :35:10.party's fortunes. Joined me in Hello and welcome to Sunday
:35:10. > :35:13.Politics in Northern Ireland. The Ulster Unionist Party gathered
:35:13. > :35:16.at Titanic Belfast for its annual conference this weekend. But
:35:16. > :35:20.despite a series of election failures in recent years, there was
:35:20. > :35:30.no talk of sinking ships. All eyes were on the helm and Mike Nesbitt's
:35:30. > :35:31.
:35:31. > :35:40.plans to turn the fortunes of the party around. He made me realise
:35:40. > :35:42.what a great future we had and that we have made a great decision.
:35:42. > :35:44.fresh from his conference performance, I'll be joined by Mike
:35:44. > :35:47.Nesbitt. Also on the programme, nationalists
:35:47. > :35:50.have no confidence in the Social Development Minister. Will a debate
:35:51. > :35:53.in the Assembly achieve anything? Here to discuss that, the deputy
:35:53. > :35:57.leader of the SDLP, Dolores Kelly, and the News Letter'spolitical
:35:57. > :35:59.correspondent, Sam McBride. Ending sectarianism, pledges on the
:35:59. > :36:02.economy, reducing the number of government departments and
:36:02. > :36:07.educational reform - just some of the themes Mike Nesbitt focussed on
:36:07. > :36:10.in his 45-minute speech to the party faithful yesterday. We'll
:36:10. > :36:17.talk to Mr Nesbitt in just a moment, but first, Chris Page reports on
:36:18. > :36:24.the mood of those who turned up to hear from their new leader.
:36:24. > :36:26.The choice of venue might have provoked an armada of maritime
:36:26. > :36:31.analogies but the Ulster Unionist Party hope holding the conference
:36:31. > :36:36.in Belfast's new iconic building would put them forward as a party
:36:36. > :36:40.looking forward with big ideas. As everybody said hello on the ground
:36:40. > :36:44.floor in the splendour of the banqueting suite, Mike Nesbitt was
:36:44. > :36:50.preparing for his crucial first conference speech as leader. A long
:36:50. > :36:53.shadow has been cast over the party as he spent his first six months
:36:53. > :36:58.restructuring and undisciplined. Now he's limbering up to talk
:36:58. > :37:02.action and policies. And he was being talked up by his colleagues.
:37:02. > :37:07.I think it's been very good so far and we will see a very good
:37:07. > :37:12.reaction to the leader's speech today, and it will move things on
:37:12. > :37:16.for our party's fortunes. We are anticipating some planned for the
:37:17. > :37:20.way forward and I am sure it will be exciting. So, would you live up
:37:20. > :37:28.to expectations? It was not just his own party members he was trying
:37:28. > :37:35.to connect with. Everyone who lives here, and I mean everyone, I am
:37:35. > :37:41.appealing to Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Muslims, everybody. Chinese,
:37:41. > :37:46.Indian, Eastern European. This appeal is to everybody. Not all of
:37:46. > :37:50.those groups were represented in the hall. This time, at least.
:37:50. > :37:54.Several hundred were listening to some familiar faces from the
:37:54. > :38:04.party's cast were absent. But he did look at how the issues from
:38:04. > :38:04.
:38:04. > :38:14.Northern Ireland's past were being looked at. And he was critical.
:38:14. > :38:21.say, no to painting if them as villains. That is a red line for us.
:38:21. > :38:26.I say the Ulster Unionist Party has no problems saying thank you to the
:38:26. > :38:33.RUC and to the UDR. Looking further back, he said his vision was the
:38:33. > :38:38.same as that of the first leader. That was Sir Edward Carson. A
:38:38. > :38:42.government for all. He has just made the most important speech of
:38:42. > :38:48.his political career. Do they now believe today marks a turning-point
:38:48. > :38:55.of a party and that this is a man who can generate electoral success?
:38:55. > :39:03.I think it was exhilarating! I really enjoyed that. I thought it
:39:03. > :39:08.was very good. Great hope for the future. He made me realise what a
:39:08. > :39:13.great future we have and that we have made the right decision.
:39:13. > :39:21.really pleased because I came away and thought, at last! It has been a
:39:21. > :39:27.tough century so far for the party that has run Northern Ireland for
:39:27. > :39:32.more than 50 years. Mike Nesbitt's task is Titanic and he hopes this
:39:32. > :39:35.party conference will be remembered as the one where the tide turned.
:39:35. > :39:39.Mike Nesbitt is with me now. The party faithful clearly enjoyed the
:39:39. > :39:44.speech but was it really for them or was it for people outside the
:39:44. > :39:50.party watching on TV? Well, it was for a bit of both, Mark. The key
:39:50. > :39:56.target audience has to be the some 200,000 people who would largely be
:39:56. > :40:00.pro-Union and who used to vote but are no longer voting. They have to
:40:00. > :40:06.have something and someone to align themselves to, so it was a direct
:40:06. > :40:08.appeal to that block of current no- voters. You want it to be a party
:40:08. > :40:13.for all - Protestants, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, people of all faith
:40:13. > :40:18.and none. Chinese, Indian, Eastern European. That's a big challenge!
:40:18. > :40:23.With respect, most of those groups were not represented in the Titanic
:40:24. > :40:29.sweep yesterday. Absolutely and that is a huge challenge. We do
:40:29. > :40:33.have members but by no means enough, and that is the challenge. A nobody
:40:33. > :40:38.is arguing the Ulster Unionist Party is a big beast of politics!
:40:38. > :40:46.That is the challenge, to get ourselves back up. Up in the
:40:46. > :40:53.process. There was a tweet yesterday saying, ask Mike if he
:40:53. > :41:01.thinks the Union Jack flag to his left to is alienating some of
:41:01. > :41:05.voters? We don't have to get into some kind of bland and come out in
:41:05. > :41:11.some kind of a more fierce human form of a major! I'm talking about
:41:11. > :41:16.mutual human respect. It may be one thing to say what is wrong with
:41:16. > :41:19.respecting the Union Flag, but if you want those people to join and
:41:19. > :41:23.vote for your party, they might be uncomfortable with the Union Flag
:41:23. > :41:26.and feel they could be Unionists but they don't need that other
:41:26. > :41:33.Association and it is a step too far. Is that not something you need
:41:33. > :41:37.to look at? We don't believe that because the United Kingdom has the
:41:37. > :41:42.Union Flag as it's black, and the same way the Republic of Ireland
:41:42. > :41:46.has its flag. But you could find another way of doing it so you
:41:46. > :41:50.don't defend the people who don't like the Union Flag and what it
:41:50. > :41:58.represents, and perhaps using some other representation that brings
:41:58. > :42:05.other people in. -- so you don't offenders the people. I don't see
:42:05. > :42:08.it like this. Why is it an issue? The issues to me are about the
:42:08. > :42:12.economy, health, education. And that is what we were doing
:42:12. > :42:16.yesterday when we published our five policy papers for discussion.
:42:16. > :42:23.I know you naturally have an interest in my speech but we have
:42:23. > :42:28.five key speeches from spokespeople yesterday. $WHITE You say social
:42:28. > :42:31.deprivation is a key policy area. "We'd agree an absolute income
:42:31. > :42:33.level that we don't want a family falling below. We would add two
:42:33. > :42:36.specific deprivation measures and attack that sector. It's not the
:42:36. > :42:43.whole answer, it does not help everyone, but it tackles those most
:42:44. > :42:53.in need. What will that cost? Who'll pay for it? What does it
:42:53. > :42:57.mean in reality? The reports coming back have no targets in them and
:42:57. > :43:02.there is a whole range of targets you could set in terms of tackling
:43:02. > :43:06.child poverty. You can have their relative income or absolute income,
:43:06. > :43:12.so we are saying, let's figure wrapped an absolute income level
:43:12. > :43:18.below which we do not want things to drop. -- figure out. In terms of
:43:18. > :43:23.hot meals, clothing, meals with meat involved, let's Dick two of
:43:23. > :43:30.those so we have an absolute, nailed on black-and-white target. -
:43:30. > :43:34.- let's pick two of those. We haven't costed it because we are
:43:34. > :43:38.not in government in that department. What we are saying is,
:43:38. > :43:41.wouldn't it be great if the Executive agreed something that is
:43:41. > :43:47.black and white so you know whether you have achieved something you set
:43:47. > :43:53.out to achieve or not. But we haven't costed it. The but you have
:43:53. > :43:59.a clear policy that you can table to the Executive and say, these are
:43:59. > :44:04.the figures. What I am saying is, there are five papers for policy
:44:04. > :44:09.discussion. We are not at the end of the road yet. An interesting
:44:09. > :44:13.point that you are not in government yourself. Is it not time
:44:13. > :44:22.you sate yourself at the Executive table and showed people what you
:44:22. > :44:26.are capable of, and demonstrated another side of your leadership?
:44:27. > :44:35.Firstly, I have said as a matter of principle I think it would be good
:44:35. > :44:39.for the Ulster Unionist leader to be poignant at the next election.
:44:39. > :44:45.And that would be me. We do not know how long the mandate will be.
:44:45. > :44:51.It was supposed to end in 2015 but now which will go to 2016. But I
:44:51. > :44:57.won some certainty on that. Because I might think twice and have more
:44:57. > :45:01.time. So I can't tell you until somebody tells me how long the
:45:01. > :45:07.mandate will be. And I don't think it is right to extend the mandate
:45:07. > :45:13.until the electorate has had its say. And you want to cut after the
:45:14. > :45:20.next election the number of departments to eight but not using
:45:20. > :45:24.civil servants. Our I never said wait. I say, get on with it! That
:45:24. > :45:28.is an internal working and you don't need a mandate to we just a
:45:28. > :45:38.putt government departments. We have a mandate for all the devolved
:45:38. > :45:40.
:45:40. > :45:44.issues. -- we don't need a mandate to readjust government departments.
:45:44. > :45:49.But the Cabinet is, don't panic, civil servants, you are not going
:45:49. > :45:55.to lose your jobs. -- the caviar at. What we're talking about his
:45:55. > :45:59.efficiency. What we did in 1988 was created government that was
:45:59. > :46:02.inclusive but not necessarily efficient. The next stage is
:46:02. > :46:07.inclusive and efficient. The big theme of the speech was lost
:46:07. > :46:11.opportunities. Why would you want to put thousands of people on the
:46:11. > :46:16.dole and give them a life of lost opportunities because you want to
:46:16. > :46:19.cut things. Which departments would you want to cut? We have been in
:46:19. > :46:29.discussion with all the party leaders and you have to negotiate
:46:29. > :46:32.
:46:32. > :46:37.this through. But the ones we would be looking at would be decamped,
:46:37. > :46:42.but the big single thing to do to kick-start the economy is to have a
:46:42. > :46:52.single department for the economy and it would include some of the
:46:52. > :46:59.functions of Del. All of that is for negotiation with the other
:46:59. > :47:03.party leaders. What about the Mid Ulster by-election? In the autumn?
:47:03. > :47:07.Would you stand aside to let it unified candidate run? It is
:47:07. > :47:17.speculation at the moment. The by- election has not been moved. It
:47:17. > :47:20.
:47:20. > :47:23.could be moved very soon. I will give you a guarantee - the people,
:47:23. > :47:28.the Ulster Unionist people of Mid- Ulster, will have the opportunity
:47:28. > :47:35.to vote for somebody with Ulster Unionist values in that by-election.
:47:35. > :47:38.Why it happens? Yes. And finally, you set out your stall in
:47:38. > :47:43.opposition but is that what you were saying to people - vote for me
:47:43. > :47:48.next time around and put me into opposition? And no. I want to get
:47:48. > :47:54.to a normalised society and for that, we need for an efficient
:47:54. > :48:01.opposition to stand. A coalition, cross-community government. Which
:48:01. > :48:04.you would be leader of? Well, no... May be look at the next time and we
:48:04. > :48:12.will be closer to defending everything. Thank you very much
:48:12. > :48:15.indeed. Do stay with us for a little while longer. Let's move on.
:48:15. > :48:17.The SDLP and Sinn Fein claim the Social Development Minister, Nelson
:48:17. > :48:20.McCausland, has broken the Ministerial Code by failing to
:48:20. > :48:23.condemn loyalist bands who breached Parades' Commission rulings in
:48:23. > :48:26.North Belfast last month. The party has tabled a motion of no
:48:26. > :48:28.confidence in Mr McCausland which will be debated in the Chamber
:48:28. > :48:32.tomorrow. The SDLP's deputy leader, Dolores Kelly, and the News
:48:32. > :48:41.Letter's political correspondent, Sam McBride, are with me.
:48:41. > :48:45.Dolores, why are you bringing this? Explain your thinking. Well, I
:48:45. > :48:52.think many people across the North were dismayed at the behaviour of
:48:52. > :48:56.Nelson McCausland over recent weeks and people want to see high
:48:56. > :49:02.standards in public office. And surely as a government minister, he
:49:02. > :49:08.must be held to account for his failure to condemn the behaviour of
:49:08. > :49:15.the young Conway band and his duty within the pledge of office to
:49:15. > :49:20.promote community relations. I don't think his behaviour and
:49:21. > :49:25.admissions have done anything to improve community relations. Peter
:49:25. > :49:31.Robinson says Mr McCausland has no case to answer? It's a delicate
:49:31. > :49:37.situation. Why up the ante in the week of the Covenant Parade? Don't
:49:37. > :49:40.accept that. Our party believes the issue is much wider than that. We
:49:41. > :49:46.are dealing with community divisions in the North and we are
:49:46. > :49:53.seeing a failure of leadership by the DUP in particular. We are
:49:53. > :49:56.dealing with sectarianism. I don't think anywhere else a Western
:49:56. > :50:02.democracy would a government minister be able to behave like
:50:02. > :50:06.Nelson McCausland. He says he has been crystal clear on the matter
:50:06. > :50:10.and he doesn't support the breaking of the law. He is fully in support
:50:10. > :50:17.of the rule of law. It need cross- community support so it won't
:50:17. > :50:23.happen. You don't have that. think it is putting down standards
:50:23. > :50:28.in public office. And then we have to hold ministers to account. Let's
:50:28. > :50:34.wait and see. Our party is meeting tomorrow with the Alliance Party.
:50:34. > :50:39.Let's wait and see what happens. it possible you might support this?
:50:39. > :50:44.Sinn Fein is going to support the SDLP. With have broad concerns
:50:44. > :50:50.about the actions of many government ministers. We have
:50:51. > :50:57.concerns and we put in an urgent question... This motion of no
:50:57. > :51:03.confidence? We think a debate being run is timely within the bubble of
:51:03. > :51:07.Stormont but we are coming up to more support in decades for
:51:07. > :51:12.unionism. And we don't want anything that is going to upset
:51:12. > :51:16.people on the ground because there is tension out there. I will meet
:51:16. > :51:24.with Alastair McGonnell tomorrow morning. Is there air any support -
:51:24. > :51:34.- possibility you will support the motion? -- is there any possibility
:51:34. > :51:40.
:51:40. > :51:44.you will support the motion? I were to talk to him tomorrow. I think,
:51:44. > :51:48.where do you draw the line? Who has to condemn what a what sort of
:51:48. > :51:53.standard is he setting? It is vague and it will be interesting to see
:51:53. > :51:56.how it is set out in the debate tomorrow. But it is unusual to have
:51:56. > :52:00.the discussion about somebody not condemning something when he says
:52:00. > :52:06.he did. And on the wider issue of the bigger political picture, what
:52:06. > :52:11.are you hearing about how difficult the motion will be tomorrow and the
:52:11. > :52:18.debate around it and how hard it will make things for the parade?
:52:18. > :52:23.This one flashpoint area around St Patrick's Church, there have been
:52:23. > :52:28.attempts to broker things and perhaps there will be some more
:52:28. > :52:33.action this week. But it is not something that is not going to do
:52:33. > :52:37.anything to defuse that. Nelson McCausland is a representative and
:52:37. > :52:42.is central to some of the discussions. It will not make the
:52:42. > :52:46.loyalist side any more likely to back down in any of the demands.
:52:46. > :52:50.Dolores Kelly, are you concerned you will give a platform tomorrow
:52:51. > :52:55.for some heated exchanges, when what people really require is the
:52:55. > :53:00.opposite and you need people to be making conciliatory comments? And
:53:00. > :53:05.forcing a debate like this will not do that? I agree that timing is
:53:05. > :53:10.unfortunate because Nelson McCausland's behaviour has been
:53:10. > :53:15.pretty poor by anyone's standards. But we are working hard on the
:53:15. > :53:23.ground towards compromise. And we want to support a motion to engage
:53:23. > :53:33.in direct dialogue with residents. For and you. -- thank you to you
:53:33. > :53:36.all. Dolores and Sam, stay with me. We'll hear more from you both in a
:53:36. > :53:43.moment. Let's take a look now at the political week in 60 seconds,
:53:43. > :53:47.with our political correspondent, Martina Purdy.
:53:47. > :53:52.The Speaker's patience snapped. He vowed to name and shame those who
:53:52. > :53:57.didn't turn up to ask questions. Dolores Kelly, she is not in her
:53:57. > :54:02.place. And launching his road safety campaign, the minister was
:54:02. > :54:08.in no mood for any nonsense either. The air are no excuses for bad
:54:08. > :54:13.driving. It's so what is the excuse for probing into the conduct of
:54:13. > :54:19.Peter and Iris Robinson taking more than two years? -- so what is the
:54:19. > :54:24.excuse? This was not down after Stormont forced owners to sell up
:54:24. > :54:31.for redevelopment but the debts are still standing. Bets for MLAs.
:54:31. > :54:40.Don't assume your party is behind you. Trevor, you will never walk
:54:40. > :54:50.alone while Mike Nesbitt is around! Now has try!
:54:50. > :54:54.-- nice try. Dolores Kelly, you were named and
:54:54. > :54:59.shamed by the Speaker on Monday and we just saw it there. For not being
:54:59. > :55:04.there to deal with your question that had been asked to their
:55:04. > :55:07.minister. What happened? I was at a meeting on the third floor of
:55:07. > :55:13.Stormont and I looked at the time and I had five minutes, so I
:55:13. > :55:17.thought, I will go down. I made a run for the stairs and ended up
:55:17. > :55:23.being two minutes late. Unfortunately, the question before
:55:23. > :55:31.Andy had two supplementary is where there are normally three. -- only
:55:31. > :55:37.had. Will you embarrassed? To do apologise? Eyes certainly did. I
:55:37. > :55:41.never did it before and I will certainly not do it again.
:55:41. > :55:46.McBride, you were at the Ulster Unionist conference party yesterday.
:55:46. > :55:51.What did you make of the way Mike Nesbitt handled his speech as
:55:51. > :55:55.leader? It was very polished and you would expect that from here.
:55:55. > :56:04.Reading an autocue, the inarticulate, being good with words
:56:04. > :56:08.and able to sell things. -- been articulate. That is his background.
:56:08. > :56:13.A lot of content and policies and he had been criticised for not
:56:13. > :56:19.having policies. A lot to other issues were touched upon but was
:56:19. > :56:24.there enough of the detail and costings people want to see? Is it
:56:24. > :56:29.was 45 minutes and I think if he had gone into any more detail
:56:29. > :56:33.people would have been nodding off! But he has made a start and, quite
:56:33. > :56:37.significantly, the DUP have released a statement attacking him.
:56:37. > :56:43.He will be pleased with that because for a while, the DUP had
:56:43. > :56:52.not even been responding to some of what he said. Peter Robinson, in
:56:52. > :56:59.the meantime, pates Civic dinner. - - at a civic dinner. If everything
:56:59. > :57:05.was settled back in 1998, why do so many people refuse to use the term
:57:05. > :57:12."Northern Ireland"? For some, it is interchangeable but a good
:57:12. > :57:18.agreement could settle who chose to regard the North as part of Ireland
:57:18. > :57:21.and could work towards reunification legitimately. But
:57:21. > :57:27.there it is a separate issue. is about the names we use and the
:57:27. > :57:34.words we use. You are a member of the Northern Ireland Assembly. Do
:57:34. > :57:43.you say Northern Ireland? Summed times. Sometimes it is the North. -
:57:43. > :57:48.- sometimes. I think many people who aspire to the reunification...
:57:48. > :57:54.The common and celebrates a rebellion by loyalists Against the