:00:08. > :00:11.Welcome to Liverpool where the Labour Party has decided
:00:12. > :00:15.who its next leader should be - he's the same one they had before.
:00:16. > :00:51.So is it onwards and upwards for Jeremy Corbyn's Labour?
:00:52. > :00:55.Morning folks and welcome to the Sunday Politics.
:00:56. > :00:57.I am therefore, conference, delighted to declare Jeremy Corbyn
:00:58. > :01:02.elected as leader of the Labour Party.
:01:03. > :01:08.Jeremy Corbyn says he wants to "wipe the slate clean".
:01:09. > :01:12.But can Labour MPs serve under a man they said they had no confidence in?
:01:13. > :01:15.We look at where the next battles are likely to be fought and speak
:01:16. > :01:17.to one peer who's quitting the party in protest.
:01:18. > :01:19.Jeremy has no leadership qualities, whatsoever.
:01:20. > :01:24.His little group like him and they think he is the Messiah
:01:25. > :01:26.but he will never become the leader -
:01:27. > :01:36.He's been "getting down" at party conferences for more than 50 years -
:01:37. > :01:41.we'll ask John Prescott if he's optimistic about the next 50 years.
:01:42. > :01:45.David Cameron felt "let down" by Theresa May
:01:46. > :01:47.because of her lukewarm support for Remain during the
:01:48. > :01:54.And coming up here, a deal has been reached over the long-running
:01:55. > :01:55.Twaddell Avenue dispute in North Belfast.
:01:56. > :01:58.So is the stand-off now a part of history or are there
:01:59. > :02:04.In the capital, how is this rivalry shaping up?
:02:05. > :02:07.London's Mayor warns pointedly that you can only change lives
:02:08. > :02:14.And we tried to oust them from the programme -
:02:15. > :02:18.but they're back by popular demand - so with me - the best
:02:19. > :02:21.and the brightest political panel in the business Steve Richards,
:02:22. > :02:23.Rachel Shabi and Tom Newton-Dunn, who'll be tweeting
:02:24. > :02:30.David Cameron became intensely frustrated
:02:31. > :02:33.at Theresa May's unwillingness to declare her intentions
:02:34. > :02:36.in the run-up to the EU referendum campaign.
:02:37. > :02:42.That's according to a new book by Mr Cameron's former spin doctor.
:02:43. > :02:45.The book by Craig Oliver is called Unleashing Demons:
:02:46. > :02:50.The Inside Story Of Brexit, and is being serialised in Mail
:02:51. > :02:54.The book talks about Mrs May's "submarine strategy
:02:55. > :03:00.Mr Oliver also writes that, "Her sphinx-like approach
:03:01. > :03:04.At one point a leading Remain campaigner asks: "Are we sure May's
:03:05. > :03:08.Oliver also makes claims around Boris Johnson's
:03:09. > :03:15.He claims Mr Johnson texted Mr Cameron after
:03:16. > :03:21.saying Brexit would be "crushed like a toad beneath the harrow".
:03:22. > :03:24.And claims the new Foreign Secretary had a last-minute wobble over
:03:25. > :03:27.backing a vote to Leave the EU, sending a text which read
:03:28. > :03:36.There we go. We know the feeling! This is a Prime Minister of which we
:03:37. > :03:41.know very little. What does this tell us about her? What it tells us
:03:42. > :03:46.is that Craig Oliver David Cameron don't like her very much, that's the
:03:47. > :03:49.only thing we can be 100% sure of, quite frankly. We knew she was a
:03:50. > :03:55.submarine throughout the campaign and I remember discussing it during
:03:56. > :04:00.the campaign on your programme. What we are debating is the motive, why
:04:01. > :04:03.does she stay hidden? Speaking to Downing Street people this morning,
:04:04. > :04:07.they are furious. They say Craig Oliver would be better writing
:04:08. > :04:11.fiction than fact. They are disputing a lot of what Craig Oliver
:04:12. > :04:15.says but of course he was there. It comes down to what you think of
:04:16. > :04:21.Theresa May. Why was she so quiet? Why would she not come up behind
:04:22. > :04:24.Cameron? Was it a political thing because she wanted to be a PM or did
:04:25. > :04:29.she not believe what he was saying? What we know is she was always a
:04:30. > :04:34.reluctant Remainer and some people thought she was a secret Brexiteer.
:04:35. > :04:38.What with don't know is she was playing the part of a submarine. Was
:04:39. > :04:43.she quietly plotting for the leadership? That is the bit that is
:04:44. > :04:46.unclear. Yes, I mean, I think to a certain extent a lot of these things
:04:47. > :04:50.we did already know, you are right. But we didn't know the extent to
:04:51. > :04:58.which... I mean, this is a party which claims to love Britain and yet
:04:59. > :05:02.seems to make decisions on the basis of pure political gain. And once we
:05:03. > :05:07.see the machinations of that and the insights to that that seem to be
:05:08. > :05:14.exposed today in this book, the fact Theresa May was asked 13 times, the
:05:15. > :05:20.fact Boris Johnson... 13 times to? To step up and support Cameron. I
:05:21. > :05:24.missed that, 13 times she was asked? In fact, Boris Johnson less than a
:05:25. > :05:28.minute before making decisions sent a text to David Cameron saying he
:05:29. > :05:31.would come out in favour of Remain, shows how arbitrary, random and
:05:32. > :05:36.politically driven these decisions were. I think we should be asking
:05:37. > :05:39.them these questions every day. It is unforgivable they took the
:05:40. > :05:45.country to such a massive and catastrophic decision on the basis
:05:46. > :05:52.of such naked political gain. That has never happened in politics
:05:53. > :05:56.before! Perish the thought! I thought that because Mrs May played
:05:57. > :06:00.the part of reluctant Remainer she would annoy both sides, that the
:06:01. > :06:06.Leave campaign would be angry with her because she didn't jump to them
:06:07. > :06:09.and Remain side would be angry because she did nothing effective
:06:10. > :06:13.during the campaign and that would count her out from getting the
:06:14. > :06:18.leadership. How did I get that wrong? It certainly didn't have that
:06:19. > :06:21.effect. I think we can roughly work out what happened. A senior official
:06:22. > :06:25.at the Home Office who worked with Theresa May for a long time told me
:06:26. > :06:30.earlier this year, long before the referendum, and when people had
:06:31. > :06:34.declared, that he was 100% sure she would back Remain. He was a great
:06:35. > :06:39.admirer of hers and he said that was her view and that she would do that.
:06:40. > :06:43.So I think she was a Remainer. But as you say, she had doubts. She made
:06:44. > :06:51.Corbyn look evangelical on the issue. There is nothing
:06:52. > :06:54.contradictory about being in the end for Remain but harbouring leadership
:06:55. > :06:58.ambitions. They did try to get her to do more, I know they did. But the
:06:59. > :07:02.Remain campaign was also ambiguous about the issue of immigration and
:07:03. > :07:06.the group Dunne the degree to which they wanted to go with it, they
:07:07. > :07:09.wanted to go on the economy. I don't think they pressed her the heart of
:07:10. > :07:14.the dominant force in the campaign because they wanted it to be more
:07:15. > :07:18.about the economy than immigration. So reluctant Remainer, low profile
:07:19. > :07:21.for all kinds of reasons, one of which was the Remain campaign didn't
:07:22. > :07:29.want immigration to overwhelm the economy. It did in the end. They
:07:30. > :07:36.calculated that wrong. The Remain campaign got that wrong, not Theresa
:07:37. > :07:39.May. Have we known less about any Prime Minister in modern times than
:07:40. > :07:43.Theresa May? It's funny because we think we know her. I've interviewed
:07:44. > :07:49.her, you have interviewed her, we have seen her around the scene for
:07:50. > :07:53.20 years but we don't know precisely... We will get a load more
:07:54. > :07:59.about this at Tory conference. Is that coming up? Have got to go there
:08:00. > :08:02.too? One day we will leave Liverpool. People will see that as
:08:03. > :08:07.an opportunity to explain a bit more about her. River Lea, because we
:08:08. > :08:12.need to move on. We'll have a habit of overestimated and overanalysing
:08:13. > :08:14.Theresa May -- briefly. She could be a simple straightforward person who
:08:15. > :08:21.likes to tell the truth, ever thought about that? Never. It is
:08:22. > :08:25.tough to get to the top with people knowing who you are. Why would we
:08:26. > :08:29.want to leave Liverpool? Look over there, it is lovely. It was the
:08:30. > :08:33.result everyone expected. After almost three months
:08:34. > :08:35.of campaigning Labour have the same leader they had before -
:08:36. > :08:38.so can the slate really be wiped clean - as Jeremy Corbyn has urged -
:08:39. > :08:41.or will splits and divisions Adam Fleming has been watching
:08:42. > :08:45.events here in Liverpool unfolding. But it's been about our Labour
:08:46. > :08:47.family facing the future. He was the head of the family last
:08:48. > :08:50.week and he'll be the head So Labour has elected its new leader
:08:51. > :08:58.and is the old leader, So Labour has elected its new leader
:08:59. > :09:01.and it's the old leader, Jeremy Corbyn, winning this contest
:09:02. > :09:03.and winning by a slightly larger In his second victory speech in just
:09:04. > :09:14.over a year Jeremy Corbyn said Labour would fight the Government's
:09:15. > :09:16.plans to extend grammar I'm calling on Labour Party members
:09:17. > :09:20.all over the country to join us in a national campaign for inclusive
:09:21. > :09:23.education for all next Saturday. The Tories' plans for grammar school
:09:24. > :09:38.segregation of our children expose their divisive and damaging
:09:39. > :09:41.agenda for our country. But the big message
:09:42. > :09:46.to his party was this. We have much more in common
:09:47. > :09:49.than that which divides us. As far as I'm concerned let's wipe
:09:50. > :10:01.that slate clean from today and get on with the work we've got to do
:10:02. > :10:03.as a party together. Jezza escaped the cameras to go
:10:04. > :10:06.and celebrate with his allies. Where is the Jeremy
:10:07. > :10:09.Corbyn victory party There will be a number of victory
:10:10. > :10:14.parties, but the most important thing now is just
:10:15. > :10:16.bringing people together. So what Jeremy will be doing
:10:17. > :10:19.is going around all the different individual party receptions,
:10:20. > :10:23.the different regions and giving the same unity message,
:10:24. > :10:25.and he will be drinking, or having cups of tea,
:10:26. > :10:29.with everybody, all sides. As luck would have it we found
:10:30. > :10:32.a persistent Corbyn critic who had just been invited
:10:33. > :10:34.in for a friendly chat. I'm actually just going
:10:35. > :10:36.to see Jeremy Corbyn now. Oh, are you?
:10:37. > :10:38.Have a one-to-one chat? He asked me to see me
:10:39. > :10:48.so I'm going to see him. Can we come with you?
:10:49. > :10:51.Alas, I don't think he'll allow it. And we did, staking out
:10:52. > :10:55.their meeting at the leader's hotel. She didn't sound
:10:56. > :10:57.entirely convinced. It was fine.
:10:58. > :10:59.What happened? He wanted to talk to me because I'm
:11:00. > :11:03.the chair of the women's PLP. It's the right thing to do that
:11:04. > :11:06.Jeremy wanted to see people like me who have our own mandates
:11:07. > :11:08.within the PLP. I think that's
:11:09. > :11:10.the right thing to do. It's whether you listen and then
:11:11. > :11:17.change your actions that matters. Others were less polite on Twitter,
:11:18. > :11:23.posting pictures of their chopped He is hostile to America,
:11:24. > :11:33.he is hostile to business and he's And I'm the reverse on all those
:11:34. > :11:37.issues as well. This is a position,
:11:38. > :11:50.as Leader of The Opposition, where effectively you are in
:11:51. > :11:53.position to become the next You cannot become the Prime Minister
:11:54. > :11:57.of this country unless you appeal to the great population,
:11:58. > :11:59.and in particular middle England. And I think Jeremy has no
:12:00. > :12:01.leadership qualities whatsoever. Back at conference,
:12:02. > :12:03.they were setting up for a meeting Corbyn fans and Corbyn sceptics
:12:04. > :12:07.are deadlocked over reforms to the party, especially
:12:08. > :12:09.plans to revive elections The criticism doesn't matter
:12:10. > :12:17.here at the festival running alongside conference,
:12:18. > :12:19.organised by the pro-Corbyn They are just over the moon
:12:20. > :12:27.that they have managed to get their hero elected,
:12:28. > :12:31.not just once but twice. And we're joined now
:12:32. > :12:42.by the former Shadow Health Welcome back to the Sunday Politics.
:12:43. > :12:47.Tell me, what will go down in history as the most botched coup of
:12:48. > :12:52.2016? Will it be the uprising against President Erdogan in Turkey,
:12:53. > :12:54.or your efforts to unseat Mr Corbyn in the UK?
:12:55. > :12:59.You've started from completely the wrong premise, Andrew, to be honest.
:13:00. > :13:05.As much as you might read in the papers about a finely orchestrated
:13:06. > :13:08.plot and coo, what I know is I resigned at the end of June because
:13:09. > :13:15.I had concerns about Jeremy's capacity to lead the Labour Party. I
:13:16. > :13:19.was worried that in a very complicated situation that we find
:13:20. > :13:23.ourselves in after the results of the referendum he didn't have the
:13:24. > :13:27.capacity to develop the answers that the party needs. So there was a
:13:28. > :13:32.concerted effort to get rid of him. I resigned at the end of June. A
:13:33. > :13:34.number of my colleagues shared the sense of despair and there was
:13:35. > :13:39.clearly a vote of no-confidence in the Parliamentary Labour Party. At
:13:40. > :13:44.the point at which that happened and that the point at which Jeremy said
:13:45. > :13:48.he wasn't going to resign, they had to be a leadership contest. Why did
:13:49. > :13:53.there have to be? What was the point of it? You have left him stronger
:13:54. > :13:57.than ever. What we have done this is have a
:13:58. > :14:00.really important debate about the future of the Labour Party. It was
:14:01. > :14:06.important for members of parliament who with Jeremy day in and day out
:14:07. > :14:11.and who have had growing concerns over the last year to say we've got
:14:12. > :14:16.to change as a party. The next 12 months need to be better than the
:14:17. > :14:19.last 12 months. We need to appeal to the country. We need Jeremy to
:14:20. > :14:24.understand that if we are going to be a credible and effective
:14:25. > :14:28.opposition, and a government in waiting, then he actually needs to
:14:29. > :14:34.get his act together. So does he understand that now? I hope so but
:14:35. > :14:38.only time will tell. It may all be for nothing. You'll have to ask him
:14:39. > :14:43.the next time he comes on your show. You were the ones who sparked this
:14:44. > :14:49.process. Do you now have any doubt that he will lead Labour into the
:14:50. > :14:52.2020 election? Well, a week is a long time in politics, Andrew. Who
:14:53. > :14:57.knows when the next General Election will be? I said 2020, that is when
:14:58. > :15:01.it is scheduled to be but there could be a surprise but Labour would
:15:02. > :15:05.have to vote for that in the Commons. Let's assume it is 2020 and
:15:06. > :15:09.it is the full term. Are you in any doubt that Mr Corbyn will lead your
:15:10. > :15:13.party into that election? Watch Jeremy has got to do is prove he can
:15:14. > :15:16.unite the party and that he can craft a message that appeals to the
:15:17. > :15:21.country. I don't think anyone wants to continue the leadership contest
:15:22. > :15:26.of this summer. But what people like me are determined to do is to
:15:27. > :15:31.continue fighting for a Labour Party that speaks to and for the whole of
:15:32. > :15:35.the country, and one which is capable of winning the next General
:15:36. > :15:40.Election. So you do have some doubts? That is not what I said. We
:15:41. > :15:44.need to focus our efforts... I know what you said about your focus but
:15:45. > :15:48.it is a simple question, do you have doubts that he can win the next
:15:49. > :15:51.General Election? Jeremy needs to prove that he is a competent and
:15:52. > :15:55.capable Leader of the Opposition. You have said that, of course,
:15:56. > :15:58.everybody who is Leader of the Opposition must prove they are
:15:59. > :16:02.competent. It would seem from your inability to give a straight answer
:16:03. > :16:07.that you do have doubts that he will win, indeed you even seem to have
:16:08. > :16:10.doubts that he will lead your party into the next election. I have been
:16:11. > :16:14.honest and it would be quite strange for me having been so explicit over
:16:15. > :16:17.the summer to come onto your programme and say that overnight the
:16:18. > :16:22.concerns that I had expressed had evaporated. Clearly Jeremy is to be
:16:23. > :16:28.congratulated on winning for a second time and he won a clear
:16:29. > :16:31.victory. But because people have voted for him in the numbers that
:16:32. > :16:35.they have doesn't mean that somebody like me automatically changes my
:16:36. > :16:40.mind. There are a number of things that he could do to move the party
:16:41. > :16:44.forward. Give me the most important one. I think he needs to commit
:16:45. > :16:49.unequivocally to a majority of the Shadow Cabinet being elected by the
:16:50. > :16:54.Parliamentary Labour Party. MPs need a new top team to coalesce around.
:16:55. > :16:59.Jeremy has talked about extending an olive branches. Is talked about
:17:00. > :17:06.wiping the slate clean. The time for words is over. -- he has talked. The
:17:07. > :17:13.time for that is over. He needs to say one thing that would show his
:17:14. > :17:15.willingness to compromise. A minority of the Shadow Cabinet
:17:16. > :17:24.should be elected by the Parliamentary Labour Party? --
:17:25. > :17:30.majority. That is the first one. There are other ideas about how the
:17:31. > :17:35.cabinet should be selected. Do you believe he will do that? He's been
:17:36. > :17:39.playing for time in the NEC. What would be useful is in the 24 hours
:17:40. > :17:43.following his election is for him to show that he has learned from the
:17:44. > :17:48.last 12 months and an elected Shadow Cabinet would be one way of doing
:17:49. > :17:53.that. I also think... Can I just ask, why would he do that? His
:17:54. > :17:57.support, his constituency, if I could put it that way, is the
:17:58. > :18:03.membership in the country. Particularly the new members, who
:18:04. > :18:07.gave him 85% of their votes. He knows the PLP cannot stand him. So
:18:08. > :18:10.why would he hand the power to choose his Shadow Cabinet to that
:18:11. > :18:14.part of the Labour Party which likes him least?
:18:15. > :18:21.I think you are characterising the Parliamentary Labour Party
:18:22. > :18:27.incorrectly, Andrew. Jeremy needs to build a team in Parliament in order
:18:28. > :18:29.to fulfil the basic functions of a parliamentary opposition. The basic
:18:30. > :18:35.duties parliamentary opposition cannot be carried out if you don't
:18:36. > :18:38.have a team. Clearly people were concerned about the direction of
:18:39. > :18:42.travel over the past year. We've been concerned about dreadful
:18:43. > :18:51.results in local elections, we've been concerned about the inability
:18:52. > :18:55.to go out and really make the case strongly for us staying in the EU.
:18:56. > :19:05.If Jeremy wants to be a strong and effective opposition, she needs --
:19:06. > :19:10.he needs to be Parliament... All of us need to behave with maturity and
:19:11. > :19:14.humility going forward. I think there's some options here that he
:19:15. > :19:18.could be exploring. All right. If he doesn't follow your advice and if he
:19:19. > :19:24.sticks with the leader largely appointing the Shadow Cabinet, many
:19:25. > :19:28.would say if it was good enough for Ed Miliband to do that it should be
:19:29. > :19:31.good enough for Jeremy Corbyn to do that, if he continues along that
:19:32. > :19:37.route, should centrist MPs like yourself serve in that Shadow
:19:38. > :19:42.Cabinet? I won't be serving in that Shadow Cabinet. I have been explicit
:19:43. > :19:45.in my view this summer, as I've already said to you, they haven't
:19:46. > :19:52.changed overnight simply because Jeremy Paris been elected. Can you
:19:53. > :19:59.just explain, given... I'm not sure what else he has to do. He's won two
:20:00. > :20:04.leadership elections by massive majorities, the second one even
:20:05. > :20:09.bigger than the first. He is clearly the choice of the party in the
:20:10. > :20:13.country. Why would you not join his Shadow Cabinet? Because as I said in
:20:14. > :20:16.the last couple of months, and I'm sorry to say this, but my
:20:17. > :20:20.experiences during that time were that it was dysfunctional and I
:20:21. > :20:24.think behaviours do have to change in order for the Parliamentary
:20:25. > :20:30.Labour Party and the Shadow Cabinet to be a really effective opposition.
:20:31. > :20:35.I think I can best serve the Labour Party and my constituents from the
:20:36. > :20:38.backbenches. If we know how this works... If I were to return to the
:20:39. > :20:42.front bench, in a couple of weeks' time you would be saying to me,
:20:43. > :20:47.Heidi Alexander, you said all of those things over the summer, have
:20:48. > :20:52.you now changed your mind? I don't think that's good for anyone. Would
:20:53. > :20:57.you advise like-minded MPs to do the same, not to join Mr Corbyn's Shadow
:20:58. > :21:00.Cabinet? I think every member of Parliament will ultimately take
:21:01. > :21:06.their own decisions. Would you advise them or just leave them to
:21:07. > :21:09.their own devices? I think if Jeremy commits to having the majority of
:21:10. > :21:13.the Shadow Cabinet elected by the Parliamentary Labour Party, then for
:21:14. > :21:19.some people that might be the right thing to do for them. You backed
:21:20. > :21:25.Owen Smith in this election campaign. If there were a general
:21:26. > :21:28.fear among MPs like yourself that Labour is drifting to father left to
:21:29. > :21:34.be electable for the country as a whole, why if that was the case did
:21:35. > :21:39.Owen Smith not attack a single domestic policy of Jeremy Corbyn's?
:21:40. > :21:42.I think what Owen did throughout the campaign was actually moved beyond
:21:43. > :21:46.the slogans. That's the problem we've had in the last year. Jeremy
:21:47. > :21:51.Thompson about investing ?500 billion in a capital investment
:21:52. > :21:53.programme but has absolutely no idea where that's coming from. -- Jeremy
:21:54. > :22:04.Thompson bout that. -- Jeremy talks about that. Owen
:22:05. > :22:10.Smith is honest and says we would have to borrow. That's what Jeremy
:22:11. > :22:15.Corbyn says! Actually, it's quite different to what Jeremy Corbyn and'
:22:16. > :22:23.John McDonald have been saying. If the fear was drifting to the left
:22:24. > :22:27.and making the party unelectable... It was mainly about, we're just as
:22:28. > :22:31.left wing as Mr Corbyn but we are more unelectable! You didn't have
:22:32. > :22:36.any major policy differences with the leader! I think we did,
:22:37. > :22:40.actually. We spoke about the EU referendum and our commitment and
:22:41. > :22:45.our belief that the British people should have a say on the final
:22:46. > :22:49.Brexit deal, either in a second referendum or at the general
:22:50. > :22:55.election. There were differences around areas of defence policy as
:22:56. > :23:01.well. Domestic policy was my original question. I understand the
:23:02. > :23:07.difference on defence. It's clear that the party membership has
:23:08. > :23:10.changed. Revolution may be too strong a word, but there is a clear
:23:11. > :23:14.difference between the new members who have come in and those who were
:23:15. > :23:19.party members at the election last year and in May of 2015. What would
:23:20. > :23:26.be wrong for these new members to say we would like Labour MPs who
:23:27. > :23:30.more reflect our values, our positions, our policy is that we
:23:31. > :23:34.want to see implemented. What would be wrong with that? I think the
:23:35. > :23:39.Labour Party is quite divided at the moment and we should be honest about
:23:40. > :23:44.that. This is a searing revelation you're giving me this morning (!)
:23:45. > :23:50.Parties change, your party has been reinvigorated with a lot of young,
:23:51. > :23:54.new people coming in. What would be wrong with them saying actually, I
:23:55. > :23:58.would like to have an MP represent me who is more in tune with what
:23:59. > :24:03.I've signed up for? I'm not sure it's really about that, to be
:24:04. > :24:06.honest. My own experience in my constituency, someone who is a
:24:07. > :24:10.hard-working member of Parliament, I've spoken to a lot of those new
:24:11. > :24:14.members who value the work that I do in my constituency but some of whom
:24:15. > :24:19.have taken the decision clearly to vote for Jeremy still. We should
:24:20. > :24:23.remember that since Jeremy Maclin lost the election, 80,000 people
:24:24. > :24:31.joined between then and the freeze date of the 12th of January, so
:24:32. > :24:34.there are 80,000 people who had by and large joint because of Jeremy
:24:35. > :24:42.Vine who had not yet had the opportunity to vote for him. I
:24:43. > :24:46.understand that. Are you in trouble yourself? I hope I'm not but I know
:24:47. > :24:54.there are people who are agitating against it. What do you think when
:24:55. > :24:58.you see Diane Abbott doing that job? I think Diane Abbott has one of the
:24:59. > :25:05.biggest and most responsible jobs in Parliament. I think that she needs a
:25:06. > :25:09.team around her to actually do that job effectively. The only way she
:25:10. > :25:15.will get that team is if Jeremy agrees, I think, to Shadow Cabinet
:25:16. > :25:16.elections. That is a point that has come through loud and clear. Heidi
:25:17. > :25:22.Alexander, thank you. So, Labour MPs who prompted this
:25:23. > :25:24.leadership contest have lost the argument and failed to persuade
:25:25. > :25:27.Labour Party members and supporters But can centrist Labour MPs use
:25:28. > :25:31.the party machinery to take The National Executive Committee
:25:32. > :25:38.is the Labour Party's ruling body. Win control of the NEC and you win
:25:39. > :25:41.control of the beating Since Jeremy Corbyn
:25:42. > :25:49.first became leader, there has been a fine balance
:25:50. > :25:52.on the NEC between his loyalists In anticipation of his re-election,
:25:53. > :26:00.the deputy leader Tom Watson has recently been squaring up
:26:01. > :26:03.to Mr Corbyn in the latest The committee has 33 members
:26:04. > :26:06.representing local parties, unions, Going into the party's conference,
:26:07. > :26:12.the NEC looks to have tipped slightly in the leader's favour,
:26:13. > :26:15.with 18 Corbyn-leaning members Although one or two of these
:26:16. > :26:19.could tilt either way The pro-Corbyn block has been
:26:20. > :26:27.boosted by two new members. Rhea Wolfson and Claudia Webbe,
:26:28. > :26:31.who will replace two However, the NEC recently agreed
:26:32. > :26:36.a rule change that could allow Scottish Labour
:26:37. > :26:40.leader Kezia Dugdale and Welsh First Minister Carwyn
:26:41. > :26:43.Jones, both hostile to Mr Corbyn, Tom Watson is also leading the move
:26:44. > :26:49.to restore elections to the Shadow Cabinet,
:26:50. > :26:56.a plan overwhelmingly The Shadow Cabinet currently picks
:26:57. > :27:09.three of its own to sit on the NEC, currently two of the three,
:27:10. > :27:16.Jon Trickett and Rebecca The other, Jonathan Ashworth,
:27:17. > :27:19.is a Corbyn sceptic. If Labour MPs were allowed to elect
:27:20. > :27:22.people to the Shadow Cabinet it could result in more centrists
:27:23. > :27:24.on the NEC. Meanwhile, Mr Corbyn is promoting
:27:25. > :27:27.the idea of giving ordinary party members and trade unions more
:27:28. > :27:29.say on the committee. Control of the NEC could allow
:27:30. > :27:32.Jeremy Corbyn and his allies to change the rules for future
:27:33. > :27:34.leadership elections, which would make it almost
:27:35. > :27:36.impossible for MPs and MEPs to stop another left-wing candidate making
:27:37. > :27:39.a future bid for the leadership. And the move perhaps most feared
:27:40. > :27:52.by MPs, a mandatory reselection We're joined now by Rhea Wolfson -
:27:53. > :27:55.a Jeremy Corbyn supporter who was recently elected to the NEC
:27:56. > :27:58.and takes up her seat at the end of the week -
:27:59. > :28:00.and by Luke Akehurst who supported Owen Smith
:28:01. > :28:20.in the leadership election. It is very finely balanced. The
:28:21. > :28:27.figures I would have would be 16 members that clearly support Corbyn
:28:28. > :28:36.and maybe 17 that don't. Do you agree with that? Yes, I think it is
:28:37. > :28:43.very finely balanced. With the recent elections, with Jeremy Corbyn
:28:44. > :28:47.supporters winning all those seeds, if not tipping the balance. What
:28:48. > :28:51.about this decision to appoint Scottish and Welsh representatives
:28:52. > :28:54.to the NEC? I understand as it stands at the moment that they would
:28:55. > :28:58.be appointed by the leaders of the Scottish and Welsh Labour parties.
:28:59. > :29:03.In other words, appointed by Labour sceptics. Will that switch the
:29:04. > :29:07.balance more against Mr Corbyn? On its own merits it's a good thing
:29:08. > :29:13.because it is an obvious gap that there hasn't been Scottish and Welsh
:29:14. > :29:17.representation, but if you look at the front is in those two countries,
:29:18. > :29:23.it probably wouldn't be hugely helpful to him. What would you think
:29:24. > :29:26.of that? I agree it probably would change the balance of power. I'm
:29:27. > :29:30.really disappointed with how this has come about and I think it's
:29:31. > :29:38.incredibly important to have elected Scottish and Welsh representative.
:29:39. > :29:41.So you think that if we do have Scottish and Welsh representatives,
:29:42. > :29:45.they should be elected by the membership in Scotland and Wales?
:29:46. > :29:49.Absolutely. It's not an interim think is not as if we're moving
:29:50. > :29:53.towards having better representation, it's actually taking
:29:54. > :29:59.an incredibly important issue of the table. During the Commons review,
:30:00. > :30:04.the moderate wing of the party actually put forward proposals that
:30:05. > :30:09.would have guaranteed members on the NEC LX did buy one member one vote
:30:10. > :30:13.from each nation and region of the UK and we didn't manage to get that
:30:14. > :30:18.through and in fact the left of the party opposed it at the time. Or is
:30:19. > :30:23.it going to happen, the Scottish and Welsh wraps being appointed? I
:30:24. > :30:27.understand there may be attempt to overturn it this week on the
:30:28. > :30:29.conference floor. I think that's probably one of the more interesting
:30:30. > :30:35.things that will happen this week, it will probably go to a vote on
:30:36. > :30:38.conference floor. I'm probably reasonably confident at least on the
:30:39. > :30:48.side of the constituency delegates that moderates did well in those.
:30:49. > :30:52.Three members of the Shadow Cabinet get to go on to the NEC and that
:30:53. > :30:56.could change the balance of power as well. Are you in favour of elections
:30:57. > :31:05.for the Shadow Cabinet, and if so, by whom? In principle... Again, I
:31:06. > :31:09.don't want to take this conversation out of context and don't think you
:31:10. > :31:17.can. This is all about political Moon over in again. My concern is
:31:18. > :31:24.this is to undermine Corbyn. I'm not a fan of people saying they won't
:31:25. > :31:27.serve unless elected. I am accountable to members. How would
:31:28. > :31:33.you like to see the Shadow Cabinet chosen, then? I would be willing to
:31:34. > :31:36.listen to the practicalities about the accommodation of having it
:31:37. > :31:41.entirely elected by members. All elected?
:31:42. > :31:50.But not by the PLP? That could be compromise. There was one third, one
:31:51. > :31:59.third, one third. I would consider that, an electoral college. The PLP
:32:00. > :32:05.could choose the Shadow Cabinet, as has been suggested. Will Corbyn
:32:06. > :32:11.agree to that? It depends if Jeremy is serious about what he says about
:32:12. > :32:14.party unity and olive branches. I want to at least see functional
:32:15. > :32:17.unity where the Labour Party gets on with its job of holding the Tories
:32:18. > :32:22.to account and attacking the weak government. In order to do that you
:32:23. > :32:24.need people to come back who resigned this summer. There will not
:32:25. > :32:29.come back unless they have an independent mandate from the PLP. A
:32:30. > :32:34.few might but to get everyone re-engaged there has got to be some
:32:35. > :32:39.kind of concession who were unhappy with Jeremy Bosman leadership, it is
:32:40. > :32:43.political reality. Mr Corbyn has won two leadership elections in a row.
:32:44. > :32:52.If MPs who were disillusioned with him continue to snap, in the words
:32:53. > :32:55.of Len McCluskey, the Unite leader, do they risk the selection and
:32:56. > :33:00.should they? I don't like talking about the selection process is like
:33:01. > :33:04.that, it makes it seem like people are trying to seize power. That's a
:33:05. > :33:07.decision for local parties. The conversation we should be having,
:33:08. > :33:11.and why this conversation has come about because of mandatory
:33:12. > :33:15.deselection, it's because people are unhappy, there is a rift between the
:33:16. > :33:18.PLP and party members and that must be resolved, and it can be in other
:33:19. > :33:22.ways apart from mandatory deselection. I think those other
:33:23. > :33:26.ways should be the priority. Aren't we in a process where the
:33:27. > :33:30.Parliamentary Labour Party now has to change to reflect the membership
:33:31. > :33:33.of the new Labour Party? At the moment there is a disconnect between
:33:34. > :33:38.the kind of people who have signed up to join Labour and the sort of
:33:39. > :33:42.people who represent Labour in the PLP. Is it not inevitable that some
:33:43. > :33:47.of these will be changed in the months and years ahead? Or the other
:33:48. > :33:52.way it could happen is that the composition of the membership could
:33:53. > :33:55.change to reflect Labour voters more. At the moment we have a
:33:56. > :34:01.membership that his weight to the left even of the people who already
:34:02. > :34:04.vote Labour. Demographically it is dominated by graduates and well off
:34:05. > :34:08.people from the south of England so it doesn't represent the Labour
:34:09. > :34:15.heartlands. So are you going to start a centrist Momentum? There was
:34:16. > :34:18.an initial amount of work on recruitment, one of the mistakes in
:34:19. > :34:21.the leadership election was not have a lot in the phase that you could
:34:22. > :34:29.reach out to the country and persuade loads of people to come
:34:30. > :34:34.back. The moderate wing of the party will not win until we learn how to
:34:35. > :34:37.recruit a mass membership in the same way Jeremy Corbyn has done.
:34:38. > :34:44.It's going to be an interesting time at the NEC. It will be interesting!
:34:45. > :34:46.It's just gone 11.37am, you're watching the Sunday Politics.
:34:47. > :34:49.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now
:34:50. > :34:58.Hello and welcome to Sunday Politics in Northern Ireland.
:34:59. > :35:00.Agreement is reached on the Twaddell Avenue
:35:01. > :35:07.So what are the possible pitfalls? in the area is happy.
:35:08. > :35:09.The Stormont Speaker has called a halt to Private Members'
:35:10. > :35:11.bills because officials have been overwhelmed.
:35:12. > :35:18.We'll hear what one MLA and a former Committee Clerk make of the move.
:35:19. > :35:20.Plus, an overwhelming endorsement from the membership,
:35:21. > :35:23.but can Jeremy Corbyn now unite the Labour Party?
:35:24. > :35:25.And with their thoughts on it all, journalists Sam McBride
:35:26. > :35:36.The agreement over the Twaddell Avenue loyalist dispute has
:35:37. > :35:38.been broadly welcomed, with politicians and
:35:39. > :35:41.police describing it as a positive development.
:35:42. > :35:44.The deal was announced in a statement on Friday by two
:35:45. > :35:47.mediators, the Reverend Harold Good and the businessman Jim Roddy.
:35:48. > :35:50.However, one residents group in Ardoyne has opposed the deal
:35:51. > :35:59.Let's hear what Allison and Sam make of the development.
:36:00. > :36:05.Morning to you both. If the agreement enough to resolve the
:36:06. > :36:09.issue once and for all do you think, Allison? I think there's an appetite
:36:10. > :36:13.to see the end of that protest up there. It must've cost over ?20
:36:14. > :36:19.million to police those parades, so there's an appetite to get rid of
:36:20. > :36:22.it. The problem, the dissent if you like, is there was not dialogue
:36:23. > :36:26.involving all groups so with two groups who negotiated this deal
:36:27. > :36:29.between them, the same deal which is has been more or less on the table
:36:30. > :36:34.for the last three years. There's nothing different about it. There is
:36:35. > :36:38.no secret recipe to end it. They've managed to get it over the line and
:36:39. > :36:44.the cynics are saying it's a fresh start, a huge financial carrot to
:36:45. > :36:50.end the protest. The key question is, with GARC not being involved,
:36:51. > :36:56.does that mean there is a serious question over whether or not this
:36:57. > :37:01.deal will stick? Obviously, there will be parades. I've been covering
:37:02. > :37:05.them for years, and regardless what is said, there's very rarely any
:37:06. > :37:12.trouble at the morning parades, which tend to pass off peacefully
:37:13. > :37:18.enough. I think the deal will stick. Obviously, there is also dissent in
:37:19. > :37:21.the loyalists. One of the lodgers has resigned, there's only a handful
:37:22. > :37:25.left. They say they were not involved in negotiations of the deal
:37:26. > :37:28.and all sides are trying to sell this as a success to their
:37:29. > :37:33.supporters and both of them can't be right so someone was obviously the
:37:34. > :37:38.loser. Why do you think the deed has been reached this stage? There's
:37:39. > :37:41.been a sense of exhaustion on both sides. Allison is right,
:37:42. > :37:45.fundamentally this deal is not massively different to what has been
:37:46. > :37:50.on offer for a very long time, but to get to the point where people are
:37:51. > :37:54.prepared to compromise, there has to be a period where people say,
:37:55. > :37:59.actually, things are not going to change. We saw over the last humans,
:38:00. > :38:05.with the lodge walking away from the talks with the open split on display
:38:06. > :38:07.on the 12th night, only one large paraded up the police lines and the
:38:08. > :38:15.others left hanging in public, there were split emerging on the unionist
:38:16. > :38:20.side, we obviously have always had these two residents groups and the
:38:21. > :38:24.Nationalists, and there was a pragmatic sense that if they could
:38:25. > :38:28.find some sort of deal which could be presented to their supporters as
:38:29. > :38:32.an honourable compromise, that there was an appetite there to take it.
:38:33. > :38:36.Allison, presumably, the biggest hurdle in immediate future is what
:38:37. > :38:42.happens next, Saturday morning, for the return parade, one of the key
:38:43. > :38:48.contentious issues in the past three years. How do you think that might
:38:49. > :38:53.unfold? If that parade goes passed peacefully, think that was the an
:38:54. > :38:58.end to disputes in that area. If it doesn't, there will have to be a
:38:59. > :39:01.huge police presence there if people are protesting full spit could
:39:02. > :39:05.derail the entire thing. At this point in time, people are just more
:39:06. > :39:11.wary in that area and have had enough, and there's an appetite to
:39:12. > :39:15.save us all. Very quickly, Sam, were you surprised there was a week are
:39:16. > :39:18.to allow potentially pitfalls between the agreement being reached
:39:19. > :39:24.and the Saturday parade? I think there was always at every stage of
:39:25. > :39:28.this process, when various deals were put forward, there was a time
:39:29. > :39:30.frame between the deal being agreed and the parade happening. I'm not
:39:31. > :39:38.sure whether the police required that, but I think there's a big test
:39:39. > :39:43.for Sinn Fein. There are two groups, can they carry that deal through
:39:44. > :39:52.when they were once completely dominant? This Republican group at
:39:53. > :39:56.the weekend launched, where did think the whole movement? There's an
:39:57. > :40:03.appetite in a nationalist community for an alternative. I think they
:40:04. > :40:08.missed an opportunity, the launch of their party in Newry over the
:40:09. > :40:16.weekend, they had a chance to layout the install -- their stall but it
:40:17. > :40:21.just turned into a Sinn Fein exercise I don't think there's much
:40:22. > :40:25.to set them apart. OK, we would get a lot more from you later in the
:40:26. > :40:26.programme. But, for now, thank you very much indeed.
:40:27. > :40:28.The Speaker of the Assembly is pressing the pause button
:40:29. > :40:32.Already this year, 19 draft bills have been submitted compared to 25
:40:33. > :40:35.in the whole of the last Assembly term and now Robin Newton has
:40:36. > :40:41.In a letter to the Chair of the Committee on Procedures,
:40:42. > :40:49.With me is the former Clerk of Bills at the Assembly, Alan Patterson,
:40:50. > :40:56.and the North Belfast MLA Nichola Mallon.
:40:57. > :41:03.Welcome to you both. You have a private members bill in the system
:41:04. > :41:06.at the moment, so you are one of the 19, so I suppose from a personal
:41:07. > :41:10.point of view you must be happy you are in before the pause button has
:41:11. > :41:13.been pressed but I do not happy that the speaker has gone down this
:41:14. > :41:18.route? Yes, certainly I tabled my private method Bill on the first
:41:19. > :41:23.ever mandate because there was a glaring gap there. I think this is M
:41:24. > :41:27.and healthy move full so we are elected to be legislators and people
:41:28. > :41:31.expect us to have ideas and to bring forward legislation and their is not
:41:32. > :41:35.an overwhelming amount of legislation coming from the
:41:36. > :41:38.Executive. In fact, the Justice minister says she intends to bring
:41:39. > :41:41.forward no primary legislation before June so there's a
:41:42. > :41:46.responsibility on us and what is concerning me is that we see another
:41:47. > :41:51.attempt to stifle opposition. People expect us to bring forward
:41:52. > :41:55.legislation. MLAs put a lot of work into identifying where the gaps and
:41:56. > :41:59.addressing those and this banner which is absolutely no time limit
:42:00. > :42:02.put on it, is something I think all Democrats should be concerned about.
:42:03. > :42:06.Do you not accept the speaker is trying to deal with an issue not of
:42:07. > :42:10.his making whereby the system simply was not designed to cope with this
:42:11. > :42:15.level of interest in private members bills? He's made clear in his
:42:16. > :42:17.letter, he doesn't want to stifle opposition and things private
:42:18. > :42:20.members bills are an essential part of what the Assembly does. It's
:42:21. > :42:25.simply the system isn't there to cope. Why has he not put a time
:42:26. > :42:31.frame on this band? Why has he not so clearly it's a resource issue and
:42:32. > :42:34.it's something they want to address from a resource perspective? There's
:42:35. > :42:38.only six members of staff in the Belfast office serving all of the
:42:39. > :42:44.MLAs and that's something we need to look at because it's not simply that
:42:45. > :42:47.there are no resources. We have over 150 people in communications across
:42:48. > :42:52.the Executive who are able to find money for a high least paid spin
:42:53. > :42:55.doctor so we need to look at putting more resources into the bill office
:42:56. > :43:01.to make sure we have more robust legislation come forward. Were you
:43:02. > :43:05.surprised by the move? I think legislation is a fundamental role of
:43:06. > :43:12.the Assembly and this move will disproportionately affect opposition
:43:13. > :43:15.parties. Because the MLAs and the governing parties will have
:43:16. > :43:17.opportunities through ministers to bring forward legislation. I think
:43:18. > :43:23.the speaker would be better looking at changing the process which is
:43:24. > :43:27.many years out of date. He's launched a review. He - to the
:43:28. > :43:34.committee procedures and said look at this. That's what he's doing.
:43:35. > :43:39.That might take some time. There's other things they will look at at
:43:40. > :43:41.this stage. It may be six months, a year down the line before
:43:42. > :43:47.recommendations of the report comes out, meanwhile, MLAs won't have the
:43:48. > :43:52.opportunity to bring forward legislation. Maybe many could be
:43:53. > :43:59.brought forward but the vast majority go nowhere. Between
:44:00. > :44:04.1999-2011, only two actually got written into law. It's a huge cost
:44:05. > :44:08.to the Assembly in terms of the taxpayer, in terms of bringing
:44:09. > :44:16.forward legislation which could go anywhere. The system needs to change
:44:17. > :44:19.now. What do you suggest, it's a waste of time? That's one
:44:20. > :44:23.conclusion. It's a waste of time because disenfranchises MLAs and
:44:24. > :44:28.demotivate people and their interests. They find they can't
:44:29. > :44:31.bring forward change through legislation effectively so it's not
:44:32. > :44:38.a question of wanting to diminish the role of ministers but ministers
:44:39. > :44:46.can't provide resources, but the don't provide any resources, any
:44:47. > :44:49.support. The Bill office, it's a voluntary basis, time to spare after
:44:50. > :44:55.they deal with Executive decisions. A lot of would-be legislation
:44:56. > :45:01.brought forward by MLAs isn't up to the mark. It is shoddy work. I have
:45:02. > :45:03.to say if you look at some of the most significant pieces of
:45:04. > :45:09.legislation which came forward in the last mandate, they were from
:45:10. > :45:15.private members bills. John McAllister. Stephen Naidoo. That's
:45:16. > :45:20.two. That was a statutory obligation to work in the best interests of
:45:21. > :45:25.children. Yes, not every built comes forward because sometimes Department
:45:26. > :45:28.subsume them. There were 19 tabled throughout the five year life of the
:45:29. > :45:31.Assembly and when the speaker says there's been 25 in three months,
:45:32. > :45:35.seven system can't cope. It was designed to cope with up pressures
:45:36. > :45:39.of last mandate, this mandate will be choked up in no time. We knew
:45:40. > :45:43.that there was going to be an opposition this time round we've
:45:44. > :45:46.known that, we knew we were going to have an increase in terms of
:45:47. > :45:49.legislation coming forward. The debate needs to be how we better
:45:50. > :45:53.resource the bill 's office, not about the fact you put a stop on
:45:54. > :45:58.private members bills. The Assembly is a legislative Assembly which has
:45:59. > :46:04.a duty to bring forward legislation not to stifle it. If it assigned you
:46:05. > :46:09.think of political maturity, the fact that now there were 25 pieces
:46:10. > :46:15.of private members legislation brought forward into the system
:46:16. > :46:20.throughout the whole five-year mandate we've just seen. 19 so far.
:46:21. > :46:24.Does it suggest MLAs are beginning to get to grips with the process of
:46:25. > :46:28.legislating? I don't think they are. If you look at the number of
:46:29. > :46:31.amendments tabled by non-government members and private members on
:46:32. > :46:38.legislation in general, they tend to come from ministers. So experience
:46:39. > :46:41.in dealing with legislation is not in the Assembly. If you go to Wales
:46:42. > :46:50.or Scotland, they have specialised units. Scots have ballots. In
:46:51. > :46:53.Scotland, any member can bring forward bills in any one session.
:46:54. > :46:58.They have a unit which provides all the support they need in terms of
:46:59. > :47:00.drafting, writing speeches, getting evidence, consultation, in Scotland,
:47:01. > :47:10.they have dedicated build teams for members. In Northern Ireland, the
:47:11. > :47:14.bill office provide support if they can afford to do it. So there is
:47:15. > :47:17.variable amount of resources. Members are spending a huge at a
:47:18. > :47:21.time and resources during the consultation exercises, which then
:47:22. > :47:27.go to the speaker who decides quite wrongly whether it could be selected
:47:28. > :47:30.for drafting. So we need to live by benchmarking how things work in
:47:31. > :47:34.Stormont with elsewhere in the UK and maybe indeed in the Republic as
:47:35. > :47:37.well? In everything you look around to see best practice and you try to
:47:38. > :47:43.learn best practice where you can find it, so certainly... Would a
:47:44. > :47:47.ballot to be a good idea? I didn't get myself a left it as a MLA to be
:47:48. > :47:51.involved in a potluck scenario to see if my name is pulled out of a
:47:52. > :47:56.hat. That happens in Westminster. There's other range of options to
:47:57. > :47:59.look at but certainly six members of staff in a bills office, if we're
:48:00. > :48:02.serious about bringing forward legislative change, that's not good
:48:03. > :48:06.enough and that's the key issue in all of this. Finally, let me ask you
:48:07. > :48:14.about the subject before the Dell from the programme. Your reaction to
:48:15. > :48:15.the deal between the Ligoniel Orange lodges and the Crumlin/Ardoyne
:48:16. > :48:19.Residents' Association. Do you believe it is a significant progress
:48:20. > :48:23.and a deal which could and should stick? I certainly think it's a
:48:24. > :48:31.positive step that I think the voluntary nature of this agreement,
:48:32. > :48:33.for understanding, as our First Minister Corsican has brought
:48:34. > :48:36.anxiety to the people of Ardoyne based on their experiences over many
:48:37. > :48:41.years, but I think Allison is right. The critical thing here is that
:48:42. > :48:44.everyone has signed up with a clear understanding of what's expected of
:48:45. > :48:48.them and what they can expect of the others. What we don't want to get to
:48:49. > :48:51.is a situation where people are very different understandings of what
:48:52. > :48:54.will come out of this process. That's so is the seeds of
:48:55. > :48:58.discontent. It's not helpful in trying to get us where we all want
:48:59. > :49:04.to be, to find a permanent resolution, and agreed resolution to
:49:05. > :49:05.the dispute at Ardoyne. We believe that here. Thank you both very much
:49:06. > :49:08.indeed. Let's hear more
:49:09. > :49:09.from Sam and Allison. Heartening to see the enthusiasm
:49:10. > :49:16.of MLAs to get legislation? The pause button has been pressed.
:49:17. > :49:20.We have a review and you've heard some of the challenges the review is
:49:21. > :49:25.going to face. Do you think the resources are not there to do the
:49:26. > :49:28.job properly? That's exactly what it comes down to, classic example of
:49:29. > :49:31.storm want shooting itself in the foot. Lots of us have been
:49:32. > :49:37.incredibly critical of the Assembly for padding at the order paper with
:49:38. > :49:41.his private members motions, lack of legislation. The minute MLAs get
:49:42. > :49:46.stuck in to do their job, and there's a lot of work to do, years
:49:47. > :49:50.of work, they are told there are not the resources to do it. You've got
:49:51. > :49:52.to question the priorities of an Assembly which has the money to
:49:53. > :49:56.subsidise its canteen but doesn't have the money to adequately
:49:57. > :50:02.resource is what is its primary function, bring forward legislation.
:50:03. > :50:10.Eamon McCann says, in his view, private members bills give meaning
:50:11. > :50:13.to being a MLA and his open to table a private members bill on an
:50:14. > :50:18.environmental protection agency but he's not one of the 19, so his
:50:19. > :50:21.private members bill is not in the system and is going to go nowhere
:50:22. > :50:26.for the foreseeable future. Can you see the frustration on his part and
:50:27. > :50:29.the part of others? Obviously and because there's been a time frame
:50:30. > :50:33.but on this review, we don't know when the system is going to start
:50:34. > :50:37.working again. We need a healthy opposition and we need these matters
:50:38. > :50:42.to be pushed through and the issue here is definitely resourcing. Six
:50:43. > :50:47.members of staff in an Assembly which has 120 press officers, it's
:50:48. > :50:50.ridiculous. It had curtailing the opposition 's voice? Yes, maybe that
:50:51. > :50:54.was intentional but that's what's going to happen. The opposition will
:50:55. > :50:55.be penalised as a result. Thanks both of you.
:50:56. > :50:57.Jeremy Corbyn's victory over Owen Smith to retain the Labour
:50:58. > :51:00.leadership leaves him at the head of a deeply divided party.
:51:01. > :51:02.As delegates gather in Liverpool for their annual conference,
:51:03. > :51:06.our correspondent, Stephen Walker, is there.
:51:07. > :51:10.I asked him how he would sum up the mood after yesterday's result?
:51:11. > :51:18.Today is a bit like the calm after the storm. Yesterday was an exciting
:51:19. > :51:24.day obviously with the leadership, the election of Jeremy Corbyn
:51:25. > :51:28.beating Owen Smith pretty successfully. His supporters were
:51:29. > :51:32.thrilled and delighted because not only was he re-elected, but
:51:33. > :51:37.re-elected with a bigger majority, so they are delighted. The talk here
:51:38. > :51:40.is about the party coming together. Jeremy Corbyn used these words in
:51:41. > :51:44.his speech of wiping the slate clean and people want to know exactly what
:51:45. > :51:47.that means. A lot of people are talking about the party moving on,
:51:48. > :51:51.coming together as a party, listening to the criticisms that
:51:52. > :51:54.actually getting their act together so they can form an effective
:51:55. > :52:00.opposition at Westminster. One of those who feels the party needs to
:52:01. > :52:03.move on now is the Shadow Secretary of State Dave Anderson, and here is
:52:04. > :52:07.a little of what he has been saying. I'm glad it's all over. So we can
:52:08. > :52:13.get on with a day job, government. Doing what we should be doing. Not
:52:14. > :52:17.people wrapped up in self-interest. We've got to focus on that. My
:52:18. > :52:22.colleagues who perhaps have been upset with the leadership, they've
:52:23. > :52:27.listen to what the members say and recognise the members and now we get
:52:28. > :52:32.together to do the right thing for the country. Dave Anderson striking
:52:33. > :52:36.a positive note that the issue of Jeremy Corbyn 's leadership is
:52:37. > :52:40.simply not going to go away? It's not. We've had the result, it is
:52:41. > :52:46.definitive, but those problems, as you say, have not gone away. Those
:52:47. > :52:50.criticisms of his style, direction, manner, are not going away.
:52:51. > :52:55.Essentially you have two camps, the membership who are for him, he's
:52:56. > :52:59.elected with 60%, a lot of them are new members for the Jeremy Corbyn
:53:00. > :53:02.has galvanised the party, brought in new members, very organised and
:53:03. > :53:05.active and are left wing and are backing Jeremy Corbyn and then you
:53:06. > :53:09.have the other blog, the Parliamentary Labour Party, which
:53:10. > :53:13.are anti-Jeremy Corbyn full of so many resigned from the Shadow
:53:14. > :53:16.Cabinet. Is there some kind of comp demise, some kind of accommodation
:53:17. > :53:21.which can take place between these two blocks and other party can move
:53:22. > :53:27.forward? That's the trick people are talking about here in Liverpool. How
:53:28. > :53:33.visible is Northern Ireland on the conference agenda? It used to be a
:53:34. > :53:36.big thing during the days of the peace process. Those days have gone
:53:37. > :53:41.so it's not high up the agenda. But there are still fringe meetings
:53:42. > :53:44.taking place around the conference agenda. People are still talking
:53:45. > :53:49.about it, Dave Anderson, he's talking about Northern Ireland
:53:50. > :53:53.today. There's a meeting tonight about Brexit, of course another
:53:54. > :53:58.massive issue. Mary Lou McDonald from Sinn Fein will speak about
:53:59. > :54:01.event. Colin Eastwood from the SDLP will be here tomorrow, so Northern
:54:02. > :54:04.Ireland is being talked about on the fringes and on Tuesday we have a
:54:05. > :54:08.traditional thing which happened at all the conferences, the traditional
:54:09. > :54:12.Ulster fried breakfast when the speaker will be Martin McGuinness,
:54:13. > :54:13.so Northern Ireland isn't high on the agenda but still being
:54:14. > :54:17.discussed. Jeremy Corbyn's re-election isn't
:54:18. > :54:26.necessarily good news for members No, it's a double-edged sword
:54:27. > :54:32.because membership in Northern Ireland is pro-Corbyn. 70% voted for
:54:33. > :54:34.Jeremy. They are particular to centre, people who believe Jeremy
:54:35. > :54:38.Corbyn's vision for the Labour Party is but on the other hand, they want
:54:39. > :54:42.to organise in Northern Ireland and the leadership of the Labour Party
:54:43. > :54:46.either doesn't want it or is lukewarm about it, so what the
:54:47. > :54:50.activists are doing in Liverpool, and there's a dozen will come over,
:54:51. > :54:55.they are lobbying other delegates to try to see if they could support the
:54:56. > :54:57.whole idea of labour candidates standing in Northern Ireland, but
:54:58. > :54:59.they know it's going to be an uphill struggle. Stephen Walker in
:55:00. > :55:00.Liverpool. Now for a look back at the political
:55:01. > :55:03.week in 60 seconds. The week began with the news man
:55:04. > :55:16.still making the headlines as MLAs Mac is bigger families gave the
:55:17. > :55:20.Executive two weeks to release funding for troubles inquests. They
:55:21. > :55:24.are in breach of the human race on this issue. I ask the Secretary of
:55:25. > :55:30.State to read the Council of Europe report which clearly said it was its
:55:31. > :55:32.responsibility and responsibility of the UK Government.
:55:33. > :55:34.Gerry Adams denies claims he sanctioned the murder of IRA
:55:35. > :55:46.It's alive. I specifically denied. This minister is refusing to say how
:55:47. > :55:51.he voted. Which way did you vote? Of course you're going to have
:55:52. > :55:59.differences. People are not interested in how I voted. They are.
:56:00. > :56:08.Right royal row over Spain went on. As a proud Republican, how do you
:56:09. > :56:08.feel about exercising? I feel grand. Absolutely grand.
:56:09. > :56:13.LAUGHTER And let's have a final word
:56:14. > :56:24.from Allison and Sam. Just to pick up on Jeremy Corbyn Mac
:56:25. > :56:27.boss re-election. Westminster politics looks like it could be
:56:28. > :56:31.pretty action packed in the near future, doesn't it? I think the
:56:32. > :56:35.Parliamentary Labour Party shot themselves in the foot when they
:56:36. > :56:39.launched an attack on Jeremy Corbyn at a time the Tories were having
:56:40. > :56:42.significant problems in their own party. They could've let that sit
:56:43. > :56:46.for a while. I think now the membership has shown overwhelming
:56:47. > :56:50.support for him, they will have to buckle down and accept he's their
:56:51. > :56:57.leader. And make some kind of compromise. Otherwise they will be
:56:58. > :57:00.unelectable for a generation. What is your assessment? Do you think
:57:01. > :57:03.Jeremy Corbyn can remain long-term if the majority of his MPs don't
:57:04. > :57:08.back him and the party continues to struggle in the polls? It is an
:57:09. > :57:12.unprecedented extraordinary situation because they changed the
:57:13. > :57:15.rules. We have no background to that but I think a lot of members of the
:57:16. > :57:19.public will say all politicians are the same, there no difference
:57:20. > :57:23.between them. We're in a situation now where people can't say that. We
:57:24. > :57:26.have a real opportunity here to see the difference between Labour and
:57:27. > :57:34.the Conservatives and in the nature of Donald Trump, people may be
:57:35. > :57:38.writing of Jeremy Corbyn of it too early. Certainly when you compare
:57:39. > :57:42.him with Donald Trump, is much more credible politician with a long
:57:43. > :57:46.track record, albeit it's pretty extraordinary if he was ever Prime
:57:47. > :57:49.Minister. A fascinating situation. It will keep us busy in the weeks
:57:50. > :57:51.and months ahead. Thank you both very much indeed.
:57:52. > :57:51.and months ahead. Thank you both and he said it
:57:52. > :57:52.And that's it for now. and he said it is worse than under
:57:53. > :58:07.Back to Andrew in London. Stalin!
:58:08. > :58:10.Welcome back - and we're joined now by John Prescott, who's been coming
:58:11. > :58:12.to Labour Conferences for more than 50 years.
:58:13. > :58:14.And our political panel, Tom Newton-Dunn, Rachel Shabi
:58:15. > :58:21.John Prescott, welcome back to the Sunday Politics and a Labour
:58:22. > :58:29.conference. In a much changed Liverpool! I can't believe it. That
:58:30. > :58:35.looks amazing. Has the Labour Party ever been at a low ahead in the past
:58:36. > :58:40.50 is? It's an interesting question. I hear everyone going back 50 years
:58:41. > :58:44.but we've always had fierce battles in the Labour Party, whether it was
:58:45. > :58:49.nuclear or the left or the right, we used to fight over the Treasurer's
:58:50. > :58:54.vote! There have always been those strong battles. It has become more
:58:55. > :58:59.personal now, it is more abuse than argument and we've got to move away
:59:00. > :59:05.from that. Do you share the fears of your old colleague Neil Kinnock,
:59:06. > :59:09.that there might not be another Labour government in his lifetime?
:59:10. > :59:17.Who was that? Neil Kinnock, former leader of the Labour Party? When I
:59:18. > :59:21.heard him saying there will never be another Labour government in his
:59:22. > :59:27.lifetime... Basically, Neil, you did lose to elections and Michael foot
:59:28. > :59:31.lost that election. We lost with Ed Miliband... There is no doubt he's
:59:32. > :59:37.got great experience of that but he is wrong! I thought we would get to
:59:38. > :59:42.the answer! Is the Labour Party at a very low ebb? It is, but I think
:59:43. > :59:46.you're absolutely right, it is a great myth that in the past there
:59:47. > :59:53.weren't huge, passionate internal debates. Under Wilson's leadership,
:59:54. > :59:58.there were problems all over the place but he won for elections out
:59:59. > :00:01.of five, he always used to say. It has become much more personal now
:00:02. > :00:03.with the social media thing going on in that kind of raises it to a
:00:04. > :00:13.different temperature. If it was accepted they could argue
:00:14. > :00:16.over policy, as was in the past and as will be the case with the
:00:17. > :00:20.Conservatives over Brexit, then there might be a way of working
:00:21. > :00:23.around this. As things stand at the moment it is a completely
:00:24. > :00:27.nightmarish, circuitous debate where the MPs slack him off and his
:00:28. > :00:31.supporters slack them off and it gets nowhere. The danger for Labour
:00:32. > :00:34.is earlier in the programme we talked about elections to the NEC
:00:35. > :00:38.and who will hold the balance of power there and the battles coming
:00:39. > :00:41.of the argument over how to choose the Shadow Cabinet, Labour can't
:00:42. > :00:48.afford another year of talking about itself. No, that is right, and the
:00:49. > :00:50.public isn't remotely interested in these very tedious internal
:00:51. > :00:56.machinations. Look, Jeremy Corbyn has proved himself twice. There can
:00:57. > :01:01.be no clearer message that the party really needs to put this behind them
:01:02. > :01:05.and focus on unifying. I think the other great myth, we're talking
:01:06. > :01:08.about the myths of history and time and the centre-right. The myth is
:01:09. > :01:13.that they have all the answers. They clearly don't. They haven't been
:01:14. > :01:18.able to persuade their own selectors of their own eligibility and they
:01:19. > :01:22.haven't been able to persuade the general public that a right words
:01:23. > :01:29.shifting Labour Party is preferable and desirable. So maybe it's time
:01:30. > :01:34.for them to think, you know what, Jeremy Corbyn has won two leadership
:01:35. > :01:38.elections, he has caused the party to be swelled, its ranks swelled and
:01:39. > :01:41.it's the largest party in Europe and people are galvanised, motivated and
:01:42. > :01:45.energised in a way they haven't been for so long. People have been
:01:46. > :01:48.apathetic about politics for so long. May be that wing of the party
:01:49. > :01:52.has something to learn from Corbyn rather than the other way around. I
:01:53. > :01:57.couldn't get Heidi Alexander to answer this. Is there any doubt that
:01:58. > :02:02.Jeremy Corbyn leads Labour into the 2020 election? I think there is a
:02:03. > :02:08.small doubt. He could still be toppled. Who would topple him? The
:02:09. > :02:11.unions. This massive force in Labour politics, centre-left politics,
:02:12. > :02:14.which no one has come close to talking about in the last few days,
:02:15. > :02:23.we have a huge election coming up the after next for the Unite union.
:02:24. > :02:27.Len McCluskey is running again. If he stands down, they have already
:02:28. > :02:32.lost the GMB and Unison are not fond of him, if he does go it is curtains
:02:33. > :02:36.for him. It is about fundamental change taking place. Everyone of us
:02:37. > :02:41.has got to think differently, including me. They have all got to
:02:42. > :02:44.say for the party have said this with their new members, we have a
:02:45. > :02:48.different way of doing things and we want some of the old policies
:02:49. > :02:52.rehearsed and put forward again. The changes, whether in the PLP, the
:02:53. > :02:55.trade unions or elsewhere, things have changed, it's a big change
:02:56. > :02:59.coming to the Labour Party and thank God. I remember arguing with Tony
:03:00. > :03:03.Blair whether we should call it new Labour or old Labour and he wanted
:03:04. > :03:09.to call it new Labour and I said why don't we call it Labour. There is a
:03:10. > :03:13.change in policy, they want fundamental change, they are
:03:14. > :03:17.entitled to have it, he has won two elections, why do we think of the
:03:18. > :03:20.revolutionary thought, he is our leader until the next election, get
:03:21. > :03:24.on for the ride and fight the Tories instead of fighting ourselves. There
:03:25. > :03:28.is one really good answer to that, that is all well and good but you
:03:29. > :03:32.are 26% in the polls, an all-time historic low that is where Corbyn is
:03:33. > :03:41.taking them. All too often we talk about the polls. Terrible
:03:42. > :03:46.inconvenience! Let us go along this road, see how we can do it, the PLP,
:03:47. > :03:50.let's just for the argument is about the election of the Shadow Cabinet.
:03:51. > :03:54.The PLP voted against Shadow Cabinet is only two or three years ago and
:03:55. > :03:59.now it wants them back. Quite right, I support them, I've been party to
:04:00. > :04:02.them. For god sake, can get on with fighting the Tories, back the
:04:03. > :04:08.leadership for the moment? I have to say to Jeremy, talking about splits
:04:09. > :04:18.in part is, we have already wondering, Momentum crazy things,
:04:19. > :04:23.argue the case for change. Electoral College instead of one man, one
:04:24. > :04:28.vote. I've always fought for one man one vote. That would be going
:04:29. > :04:32.backwards, would it not? It would strengthen the PLP. We have to look
:04:33. > :04:37.at all of these fears and do a proper conference as I advocate, but
:04:38. > :04:41.think about it first. We have ?3 members at Miliband came through and
:04:42. > :04:45.whacked that through special conference. We need to think about
:04:46. > :04:50.how we've done things in the past, trade unions, members of Parliament,
:04:51. > :04:54.PLP members, they want change, they are entitled democratically to see
:04:55. > :04:57.if we will listen to them at implement it democratically. Jeremy
:04:58. > :05:02.must show leadership. What does showing leadership mean? There are
:05:03. > :05:06.two things. The election of a Shadow Cabinet if you want to do that.
:05:07. > :05:13.Elected by whom? That could be the PLP to begin with. We can't wait
:05:14. > :05:16.until the conference comes along, 11th of October. These things are
:05:17. > :05:25.constitutional. In the coming elections he is the leader, he could
:05:26. > :05:29.put in people he feels he has to have their in the Shadow Cabinet,
:05:30. > :05:32.because it's all about power distribution, and give the PLP the
:05:33. > :05:36.right to put some people in and then look at the issues of whether other
:05:37. > :05:40.members should be involved. That's the long-term. At the moment a team
:05:41. > :05:46.ready for fighting Theresa May, she will be worse than Thatcher. We are
:05:47. > :05:50.here in the great traditional Labour city, the heartland of traditional
:05:51. > :05:54.Labour support. Does anybody in Liverpool care how the Shadow
:05:55. > :05:58.Cabinet is selected? I doubt meet people just outside this building
:05:59. > :06:03.are talking about that. They will be because they are journalists! I
:06:04. > :06:06.don't even think they will be! In a way we are contradicting ourselves
:06:07. > :06:10.because we are saying we should not spend time talking about it and we
:06:11. > :06:13.are all talking about it. The so-called rebels misjudged this
:06:14. > :06:16.completely in terms of timing, when they all resigned on the Sunday
:06:17. > :06:20.after the referendum, they didn't ask, do we have a candidate? What
:06:21. > :06:24.happens if Jeremy Corbyn doesn't go as a result of this and have they
:06:25. > :06:33.got themes that can unite the rest of the membership, or a new
:06:34. > :06:36.membership could to? We keep talking about the voters. Let's not talk
:06:37. > :06:41.about the Shadow Cabinet because that is an insider conversation.
:06:42. > :06:45.About the voters, we don't know whether Jeremy Corbyn is electable
:06:46. > :06:52.or not. We don't know how he would fare with a united team behind him
:06:53. > :06:57.with over 500,000 members canvassing, campaigning, talking
:06:58. > :07:00.about his policies. We don't know if for this time, in a time when we are
:07:01. > :07:05.dealing with massive inequalities, when we're dealing with rampant...
:07:06. > :07:09.Just, food banks, child poverty and things that should not happen in one
:07:10. > :07:13.of the wealthiest countries in the world. We don't know whether what
:07:14. > :07:16.the Labour Party proposes under Jeremy Corbyn will resonate. We will
:07:17. > :07:19.have a chance to find out. One of the things that is interesting is
:07:20. > :07:24.that clearly the membership of the party has changed dramatically, even
:07:25. > :07:28.in the past 12 months. Will the Parliamentary party change as a
:07:29. > :07:31.result of that? There has been talk of the and reselection. This is what
:07:32. > :07:37.Mr Corbyn had to say this morning. The relationship
:07:38. > :07:40.between an MP and their It's not necessarily
:07:41. > :07:43.all the policy tick It's also the relationships,
:07:44. > :07:46.the community, the effectiveness of representation
:07:47. > :07:47.and all those issues. Let's have a democratic discussion
:07:48. > :07:50.and I think the vast majority of MPs will have
:07:51. > :08:01.no problem whatsoever. Is it's not inevitable, given that
:08:02. > :08:05.you've talked about it yourself, this huge change taking place in the
:08:06. > :08:09.Labour Party membership, that the Parliamentary party will have to
:08:10. > :08:13.change to reflect that? To some extent the PLP is the creation of
:08:14. > :08:18.the previous membership, not the new membership. That is right. Some
:08:19. > :08:21.people were opposing him within weeks when he was elected and
:08:22. > :08:25.pulling out of the cabinet and I don't think they will change. They
:08:26. > :08:28.might want to stay on the backbenches, they don't want to
:08:29. > :08:32.divide the party so they will fight for the party from the backbenches.
:08:33. > :08:35.The greater majority of those in the PLP they didn't want to go on this
:08:36. > :08:39.road of no confidence, that was one when they were kidded into believing
:08:40. > :08:42.that if they had a begin of no confidence he would pick of the
:08:43. > :08:47.revolver and shoot himself. It never was going to happen. So let's say,
:08:48. > :08:55.keep your view, if you don't want to get involved, fine, but now you are
:08:56. > :09:01.required to take account, looking at the policy issues between us rather
:09:02. > :09:06.than fighting ourselves. He has got to show leadership. He is the man in
:09:07. > :09:10.charge of it. That's why the election of the Capanagh has become
:09:11. > :09:14.more important inside the PLP. It's a struggle, isn't it? The PLP
:09:15. > :09:18.produced a whole package of things with electoral reform. Let's get on
:09:19. > :09:22.with that, put it on the side, get a team ready for October the 11th to
:09:23. > :09:25.fight the Tories are using our energy and fighting the Tories and I
:09:26. > :09:30.think the majority of MPs are on board for that. Will Rachel get to
:09:31. > :09:36.see her united Labour Party behind Mr Corbyn going into another
:09:37. > :09:40.election? No. This is it. We have to look at the facts on the table, the
:09:41. > :09:44.Labour Party, the PLP and the people in the country, those people who
:09:45. > :09:48.voted for Owen Smith, they are so far apart ideologically, the hard
:09:49. > :09:52.left and there is the Blairite right and those two will never unite and
:09:53. > :09:56.it's all very well John saying so and I admire your optimism but you
:09:57. > :10:02.and I know it will not happen. It has got to for our people. The party
:10:03. > :10:05.and our country wants it. If your press get onside instead of being so
:10:06. > :10:08.vicious about Corbyn, not just your paper, but most of them have had a
:10:09. > :10:14.kind of hostility that has not been seen before. It has taken ten
:10:15. > :10:24.minutes but eventually we got there. Perhaps we will wait and see. The
:10:25. > :10:27.ideological gap is as big as the 80s, partly because on both sides
:10:28. > :10:32.there is a complete lack of clarity about what they believe in and where
:10:33. > :10:38.they want to go. The early 80s, Roy Jenkins knew exactly what there were
:10:39. > :10:42.four and so did Tony Benn. There is that clarity of vision now. It is
:10:43. > :10:47.all blurred and muddled so there is a problem and an opportunity there.
:10:48. > :10:51.Second, I think the crunch point in this Parliament for Jeremy Corbyn,
:10:52. > :10:58.not now obviously, but if and when the Tories have a crisis over Brexit
:10:59. > :11:03.and if at that point Labour are 25, 20 6% in the polls he will have a
:11:04. > :11:07.crisis. Let me interrupt you because the really big political event
:11:08. > :11:12.yesterday wasn't what was happening here in Liverpool, it happened on
:11:13. > :11:15.BBC One on your TV screens. It was Ed Balls in Strictly. Let's see how
:11:16. > :11:18.that went. Dancing the waltz,
:11:19. > :11:46.Ed Balls and Katya Jones. There we go, glitter balls on
:11:47. > :11:52.strictly. I bet you wish you had been there. I turned it down some
:11:53. > :12:00.time ago. So did I! What was the woman who did it? Edwina. BBC
:12:01. > :12:03.journalists, the public like people like that and supported in many ways
:12:04. > :12:09.but they fall out because they can't dance. That is a drawback. They love
:12:10. > :12:15.them for not dancing, they love the fact they are trying. But they
:12:16. > :12:19.didn't win. I love dancing myself, but frankly you've got to have some
:12:20. > :12:23.movement. There has got to be a flow in the body and the feel of the
:12:24. > :12:31.music. I think you've got it there! You want to do it, I can tell!
:12:32. > :12:36.Doesn't he? He wants to do it. That is not dancing, it's about the
:12:37. > :12:44.movement of the body, the music and the spirit. You should be a judge on
:12:45. > :12:50.the programme. I give it eight! Today talking about Jeremy Corbyn,
:12:51. > :12:57.they love this, it humanises it. You can see a petition to get him on. I
:12:58. > :13:02.can see it happening. We may have to speak to compliance about it!
:13:03. > :13:06.Anyway, it has become a part of the Constitution that you and I have to
:13:07. > :13:11.meet at a Labour conference, so it's good to see you. Two comedians
:13:12. > :13:13.together. One day we might get a proper job!
:13:14. > :13:17.I'll be back next week at the Conservative Party
:13:18. > :13:19.Conference in Birmingham with more Sunday Politics.
:13:20. > :13:22.And I'll be back tomorrow with the Daily Politics at 11am
:13:23. > :13:24.over on BBC Two with more from the Labour Conference
:13:25. > :13:30.We will bring you what is happening in the Labour conference and the
:13:31. > :13:33.Shadow Chancellor's speech too. Remember, if it's Sunday,
:13:34. > :13:38.it's the Sunday Politics.