:00:45. > :00:49.Well come. As we enter another big week for health reforms, is
:00:49. > :00:55.Labour's scaremongering? The shadow health secretary joins us for our
:00:55. > :01:01.top story. In his first major television interview since leaving
:01:01. > :01:11.cabinet, Liam Fox on why George Osborne should defend -- depend on
:01:11. > :01:16.
:01:16. > :01:22.A Lib Dem at Lord's and a troublesome Tory backbencher go
:01:22. > :01:32.head-to-head. Our political panel of the bright
:01:32. > :01:36.
:01:36. > :01:46.line things he to analyse British Are we doing enough to plug the
:01:46. > :01:46.
:01:46. > :35:36.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2029 seconds
:35:36. > :35:40.Hello and welcome to Sunday Politics in Northern Ireland.
:35:40. > :35:42.Recession? What recession? Business leaders tell us they can't get the
:35:42. > :35:52.qualified people to fill many highly skilled jobs So are
:35:52. > :35:56.
:35:56. > :36:00.politicians doing enough to plug The executive are keen on making
:36:01. > :36:05.the economy central to government. ICT sector could be the engine of
:36:05. > :36:08.growth. And he may be about to lose his own job, but can the Minister
:36:08. > :36:15.for Employment deliver on his promise to pitch Northern Ireland
:36:15. > :36:18.as a player in a global market But first with me for the next 20
:36:18. > :36:28.minutes former Employment Minister Sir Reg Empey and Aoife Clarke from
:36:28. > :36:33.
:36:33. > :36:39.the CBI. Is Peter Robinson right? It is not a news story because it
:36:39. > :36:43.has been an ongoing issue. 10 years ago, I carried out some work on how
:36:43. > :36:50.much coverage a bad news story on the economy got and it won every
:36:50. > :36:55.time. It is easier to portray a closure of a factory with a
:36:55. > :37:00.reporter outside it and it is to explain to people than another half
:37:00. > :37:06.a dozen people got jobs. There is a tendency to look at the glass being
:37:06. > :37:11.half empty and it is not new. course, a factory closing has a
:37:11. > :37:19.massive impact on the workers and others. We cannot ignore it, can
:37:19. > :37:24.we? No. But I do think, at times, we do not get the balance right and
:37:24. > :37:28.that is a difficulty in broadcasting. There is a bit of an
:37:28. > :37:33.emphasis on the dying side. I have sympathy with what Peter said in
:37:34. > :37:38.that regard. Peter Robinson appears to be
:37:38. > :37:42.favouring a hear no evil see no evil approach but some people argue
:37:42. > :37:47.that had the media taking a more proactive role in the banking
:37:47. > :37:55.crisis we wouldn't be a here and now? We live in a democracy,
:37:55. > :38:01.thankfully. If there is bad news stories for the economy people need
:38:01. > :38:08.to know about them. Maybe the sophistication of some of our
:38:08. > :38:15.stories isn't where it could be. For example, some of the global
:38:15. > :38:19.barometers on infrastructure or skills and maybe there is not
:38:19. > :38:26.enough co-operation. We would like to see more of that to bring some
:38:26. > :38:31.new ones to the story. unemployment figures, 18% youth
:38:31. > :38:37.unemployment, which means 82% are in some employment or training. You
:38:37. > :38:42.cannot tell that in a different way, can you? No. Ultimately, the figure
:38:42. > :38:46.of those who aren't in work is catastrophic and it needs to come
:38:46. > :38:50.down. It would be doing a disservice to the people in
:38:50. > :38:52.Northern Ireland if we were to flip those figures just for a positive
:38:52. > :38:56.headline. Amidst the gloom of rising
:38:56. > :39:01.unemployment, here's some good news. A survey by a recruitment firm says
:39:01. > :39:05.Belfast is one of the best cities in the UK to get a job in the IT
:39:05. > :39:08.sector. But there's a reason for that, we've got a serious lack of
:39:08. > :39:18.qualified people. In a moment, we'll be talking to the Employment
:39:18. > :39:29.
:39:29. > :39:35.Minister, Stephen Farry, but first Who says science isn't fun? STEM
:39:35. > :39:41.subject, science, technology, engineering and maths are
:39:41. > :39:48.celebrated here at the centre here. It is all about putting the wow
:39:48. > :39:57.factor backing for students. But too many students are not choosing
:39:57. > :40:02.STEM subject. An American insurance company, at Allstate, employs many
:40:02. > :40:07.people here but they cannot find the right people with skills.
:40:07. > :40:13.getting close to crisis levels and it is disabling asked to grow our
:40:13. > :40:17.business. I think the executive are keen on making the economy part of
:40:18. > :40:24.what is central to government. The ICT sector could be the engine for
:40:24. > :40:28.growth. It is ironic when you have this sort of situation coinciding
:40:28. > :40:35.with a substantial level of unemployment. Some of this is not
:40:35. > :40:37.surprising when you look at the fact that the economy is changing
:40:37. > :40:42.and the education and training system will struggle to keep pace
:40:42. > :40:45.with that. At least 15,000 people work in the technology sector here
:40:45. > :40:53.and thousands more use computer skills in other businesses. There
:40:53. > :40:58.are around 700 ICT companies and international investors. More than
:40:58. > :41:02.60% have a degree and there are around 1000 graduates per year in
:41:02. > :41:07.ICT and related subjects. Employers say more graduates are needed and
:41:07. > :41:11.they are calling on government to go a step further. We need to set
:41:12. > :41:17.targets for the number of science and technology A-levels people do.
:41:17. > :41:27.The number of people who do maths as well. A good starting point
:41:27. > :41:29.
:41:29. > :41:34.would be 30% or 40% of subjects in STEM subjects were the first choice
:41:34. > :41:40.for the students at Dungannon College. People weren't interested
:41:40. > :41:44.in science as it was seen as difficult or uncool. Now, with
:41:44. > :41:49.media and TV shows, I think it is becoming more exciting and
:41:49. > :41:55.appealing. I wanted to do i t fall time because I have a passion for
:41:55. > :41:59.it. I saw the course here and decided I would apply. Some
:41:59. > :42:03.employers have called for a cut in tuition fees for science and
:42:03. > :42:09.technology degrees. It would encourage more students to study
:42:09. > :42:14.the subject because there are a lot of jobs revolving around science.
:42:14. > :42:20.South-west College has bent over half a million pounds creating
:42:20. > :42:25.islands dedicated first STEM centre designed to sell the merits of
:42:25. > :42:33.science and technology. There are a lot of teachers teaching to A-level
:42:33. > :42:37.standard but, generally, and in certain parts of Europe also, there
:42:37. > :42:42.hasn't been enough focus on engineering, manufacturing and
:42:42. > :42:46.product design. Tradition the, we were good and we probably came --
:42:46. > :42:56.became complacent now we have to get back in there and be the best
:42:56. > :42:56.
:42:56. > :43:01.The minister Stephen Farry joins us. What about the idea of a fees cut
:43:01. > :43:09.or a bursary to encourage students to study the subject that will grow
:43:09. > :43:13.the economy, --? We are making progress. Let me just say first of
:43:13. > :43:19.all, I recognise that skills are the main driver of the economy here.
:43:19. > :43:25.We are keen to make - might get the message to investors overseas and
:43:25. > :43:29.local employers that we are keen to invest in skills. Certainly, during
:43:29. > :43:35.my term of office, I have bin throw off -- proactive in identifying
:43:35. > :43:40.where we have skill shortages or mismatches. In terms of STEM
:43:40. > :43:45.subjects, I increased the number of places in local universities and
:43:45. > :43:50.they will be in STEM subjects. We have to send the message to the
:43:50. > :43:55.education system itself and try to encourage students to consider
:43:55. > :44:00.careers in areas where there will be jobs in the future. We need to
:44:00. > :44:03.get information into the careers advisory enough. But we are at
:44:03. > :44:10.least 1000 graduates a short every year so it needs to be tackled this
:44:10. > :44:17.year? Things take time to turn around. Do we have the time? I am
:44:17. > :44:22.moving as quickly as I can and being proactive. This year, I set-
:44:22. > :44:27.up and ICT working group. I was listening to voices coming through
:44:28. > :44:31.from employers and we are bringing key players around the table,
:44:31. > :44:36.including universities and the further education sector to see
:44:36. > :44:40.what actions we can take to turn around what we are doing in terms
:44:40. > :44:44.of the ICT sector. We have a strong base already and there are
:44:44. > :44:50.indications we can do more. I am very much up for seizing the
:44:50. > :44:54.opportunity. Some people might argue there is very little action.
:44:54. > :44:59.While everyone is talking about the short, medium and long-term,
:44:59. > :45:04.companies invest elsewhere. Companies are still coming in. The
:45:04. > :45:08.New York Stock Exchange has come in. More companies are interested in
:45:08. > :45:12.coming. We have really qualified people and that is why companies
:45:12. > :45:20.looked to come here so we are not failing in that regard. The key
:45:20. > :45:26.issue is what we can do more of to seize the opportunity. I have
:45:26. > :45:31.commissioned research showing what other specific skill needs we have
:45:31. > :45:36.to invest in to take advantage of lower corporation tax. Bill
:45:36. > :45:41.McGuinness, one government adviser and a successful businessman, says
:45:42. > :45:47.beat skills shortage issue is as important to our economy as a cut
:45:47. > :45:52.in corporation tax. The two going harmony. The corporation tax it
:45:52. > :45:59.looks at the demand side. Equally, it doesn't happen in a vacuum and
:45:59. > :46:04.we have to invest in the driver's of the economy. Skills and research
:46:04. > :46:11.and development, for example. have almost been in post for a year.
:46:11. > :46:17.What has changed in that time and is this necessarily a criticism of
:46:17. > :46:22.the Department? Of things to slow? No. We have a department that is
:46:22. > :46:26.singularly focused on skills. We invest in more places in terms of
:46:26. > :46:34.universities, we listen to employers and take action in terms
:46:34. > :46:39.of what has to happen in the ICT sector. Also we prioritise tourism
:46:39. > :46:44.as a priority scale. There are opportunities we have their for the
:46:44. > :46:50.rest of the decade. As a department, and given the size of Northern
:46:50. > :46:54.Ireland, we have the opportunity to be flexible and responsive. They
:46:54. > :46:59.cut in fees would be a straight forward weight to incentive vies
:46:59. > :47:04.students into proper degrees that really matter? We have cut fees and
:47:04. > :47:08.we have the lowest fees in the UK. We have sent a clear message we
:47:08. > :47:13.want people to participate in higher education and that doesn't
:47:13. > :47:18.just mean University but things like level for apprenticeships. In
:47:18. > :47:25.ICT, we need graduates and people with more and more high-level
:47:25. > :47:29.skills across a broad spectrum in higher-education and
:47:29. > :47:33.apprenticeships -- further education. Apprenticeships are
:47:33. > :47:42.potentially disappearing. How do you think it will be desired -
:47:42. > :47:46.might divided up? There are important challenges out there. The
:47:46. > :47:55.core message to the future has to be to maintain a sale bit -- single
:47:55. > :47:59.skills narrative here. If we fragment our skills. Like putting
:48:00. > :48:04.off apprenticeships, we will seriously undermine our skills are
:48:04. > :48:12.offering and send a negative message. Should we merge to
:48:12. > :48:17.departments and have one department for the economy? We are open for a
:48:17. > :48:21.proper rationalisation. A single department of the economy makes
:48:21. > :48:26.sense. We have to make sure we get there in a proper way that works
:48:26. > :48:31.for the economy and does not undermine it.
:48:31. > :48:36.Coming to you. You are reform employment minister. Was there a
:48:36. > :48:41.lack of vision during your tenure? We have been here before. One of
:48:41. > :48:46.the first things I did was attend a meeting where all of the ICT people
:48:46. > :48:51.were around the table telling me how many places they needed and
:48:51. > :48:55.what we needed to do to help them get those people. One of the things
:48:55. > :49:01.that came out of that was the idea of conversion courses where someone
:49:01. > :49:07.with a degree can convert to an ICT qualification. We provided up to
:49:07. > :49:11.6000 points a year for eight course. We ran two or three of these but
:49:11. > :49:19.people could not get jobs at the end so it petered out. The demand
:49:19. > :49:27.for people ebbs and flows according to the economy. Employers and Bro
:49:27. > :49:33.McFerran has been a Brit as far as Northern Ireland is concerned, -- a
:49:33. > :49:39.brick, but what they pay is an issue. Building up enough of a
:49:39. > :49:42.stock of people, the last thing you want to do is convert them took IT
:49:42. > :49:48.qualifications and in the next minute, they are being made
:49:48. > :49:52.redundant. We have to strike a balance. A lot of the initiatives
:49:52. > :49:58.that were mentioned, the department is quick at doing that, but the
:49:58. > :50:03.fact is there is not a consistent demand. It comes and goes and
:50:03. > :50:09.having a pool of labour at the right time is a trick. You advise
:50:09. > :50:15.the CBI. How far behind are we? wouldn't say we are particularly
:50:15. > :50:19.behind with reference to London. This is one of the things, matching
:50:19. > :50:24.supply and demand in a fast- changing labour market, it is a
:50:24. > :50:30.challenge. I worked on our Queen's of industry campaign and skills is
:50:31. > :50:34.a key issue as well as tax and intellectual property. We were
:50:34. > :50:41.researching our paper last year and we looked at other countries that
:50:41. > :50:51.are doing well, like Singapore, but no one is doing it perfectly. The
:50:51. > :50:55.executive needs to keep their foot on the gas a and make sure that
:50:55. > :51:00.they keep in touch with industry. If you focus on one area, you may
:51:00. > :51:04.drop the ball in another area. there is an acceptance that the old
:51:04. > :51:10.style of jobs are gone and we have to feel -- fill the gap and give
:51:10. > :51:17.people a job. We are looking at welfare reform by pushing people
:51:17. > :51:21.off benefits and into work? Absolutely. There are some concerns
:51:21. > :51:26.about the global backdrop which isn't good. Various challenges
:51:26. > :51:31.within skills and the interface between that and welfare reform. It
:51:31. > :51:36.is very complex but there are some enduring concerns about how that
:51:36. > :51:40.will pay out -- play it in the men -- labour market. It is a short
:51:40. > :51:47.time frame as to how it will impact on the ground. We would like to see
:51:47. > :51:54.more clarity. He spoke about the eggs and flows, surely a job for
:51:54. > :51:58.some space of time is better than no job? Sure. We are seized about
:51:58. > :52:02.the problem we have with young people out of work. For some people
:52:02. > :52:07.it is a structural problem but for many it is a reflection of the
:52:07. > :52:11.economic downturn. The rate for young people is higher than for the
:52:11. > :52:15.population as a whole as they suffer from inexperience. If you
:52:15. > :52:19.can't get on the first run of the ladder, it is difficult. We are
:52:19. > :52:23.trying to put together a new programme to give young people the
:52:23. > :52:28.opportunity to get experience. It is important business plays a role
:52:28. > :52:33.and we have a positive relations with the CBI air and other bodies
:52:33. > :52:36.in that regard. Now you are on the outside of the government looking
:52:36. > :52:40.in, could they do things differently?
:52:40. > :52:46.The only thing I would be critical of in student fees is that I would
:52:46. > :52:50.have put them up a bit and used the money for exactly the sort of
:52:50. > :52:56.things Steven is talking about. In Spain, youth unemployment is double
:52:56. > :53:05.what it is here. If you have missed anything in the
:53:05. > :53:15.world of politics, here is a catch- Monday kick-off. Sports Minister
:53:15. > :53:19.doesn't like this game of politics. No love lost but plenty of love
:53:19. > :53:22.when this MLA it revealed her son's fight for life. Your life is on
:53:22. > :53:28.hold when you are dealing with renal failure. Normal family life
:53:28. > :53:33.goes out the window. Martin McGuinness was asked by a a a
:53:33. > :53:39.father to find out the truth about his son's murder. Tell us to
:53:39. > :53:43.Dunecht. Second in command as far as I was told. Alex Attwood gets in
:53:43. > :53:48.the swing for a new course and why this Republican likes his bit to
:53:48. > :53:53.get more women elected. We operate within a chamber many of us feel is
:53:53. > :54:03.the equivalent of Jurassic Park. God gave us to its ears and one
:54:03. > :54:16.
:54:16. > :54:21.mouth. David Trimble's return to On the female quotas, you have to
:54:21. > :54:26.MLAs instalment. Are quite is a good idea? No, the atmosphere has
:54:26. > :54:30.to be made more female-friendly rather than quotas. I think most
:54:30. > :54:35.women want to get to the top on merit and if you have quotas, the
:54:35. > :54:44.danger is people may say they got there because of their agenda. What
:54:44. > :54:47.we have to do, in the parties, and I tried when I was leader, to put
:54:47. > :54:54.in education, training and encourage people. The same applies
:54:54. > :54:58.in getting them to apply for public appointments. We did not get enough
:54:58. > :55:03.applicants when I was on the board and we had to approach women to ask
:55:03. > :55:06.them to apply. How would affirmative action go down as in
:55:06. > :55:12.the business walk -- world there is a shortage of women in the