:01:43. > :01:45.Reconciliation and an appeal to dissident republicans - we'll be
:01:45. > :01:55.hearing from the Sinn Here: Fein President Gerry Adams after his
:01:55. > :01:55.
:01:55. > :29:46.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1671 seconds
:29:46. > :29:50.party's conference in County Kerry Hello and welcome to the programme.
:29:50. > :29:54.Reconciliation was kind on the agenda at this weekend's Sinn Fein
:29:54. > :29:57.Ard Fheis in Killarney. Delegates heard for the first time about
:29:57. > :30:02.talks with civic leaders within the Protestant community. Offers of
:30:02. > :30:07.talks were also made to dissident republicans. When I was based in
:30:07. > :30:14.Belfast, I contacted the various, as I understood it, officers for
:30:14. > :30:19.people who would be representing the various factions. Let them
:30:19. > :30:23.steady up. Let them test us. will hear more from Sinn Fein
:30:24. > :30:27.president Gerry Adams shortly. Also, this time next week we will know
:30:27. > :30:31.how the republic voted in the latest referendum on Europe. But
:30:31. > :30:35.though the outcome matter to people in Northern Ireland? Here to talk
:30:35. > :30:43.about all that and more are our guests of the day, Professor Rick
:30:43. > :30:47.well for Dundee -- and economist Mike Smythe. It was sunshine all
:30:47. > :30:51.the way in County Kerry when around 1000 delegates descended on
:30:51. > :30:56.Killarney for the Ard Fheis. The big themes what Ireland's economy
:30:56. > :31:01.and building bridges with Unionism. Yvette Shapiro went to County Kerry.
:31:01. > :31:08.The glorious kingdom of Keddie. One of Ireland's key tourist
:31:08. > :31:12.destinations. And on a day like this, you can see why. All roads
:31:12. > :31:16.lead to Kerry for the annual Sinn Fein Ard Fheis this weekend, and
:31:16. > :31:19.they couldn't have chosen a better time for it. Not only is the sun
:31:19. > :31:24.shining on the party in electoral terms and in terms of its recent
:31:24. > :31:31.strength and the opinion polls here, but it's also just days away from
:31:31. > :31:37.the all-important fiscal treaty referendum. Sinn Fein is taking the
:31:37. > :31:40.lead in the No campaign. There's a considerable section of people who
:31:40. > :31:46.were worried about the future funding issue. There have been huge
:31:46. > :31:49.scare tactics in this campaign. We will try and give hope to those
:31:49. > :31:53.people in the time ahead. Of course, the French presidential election
:31:53. > :31:58.was a victory of hope over fear, at the hope here in Ireland we will
:31:58. > :32:03.have the same outcome. The treaty isn't the only big event coming up.
:32:03. > :32:08.Euro 2012 provided the theme for several speakers. The team in the
:32:08. > :32:14.euros are going to be stronger because they will be in the squad
:32:14. > :32:24.alongside Keane and Shay Given, because Eilish -- Irish teams are
:32:24. > :32:24.
:32:24. > :32:34.stronger. A senator made a dramatic point about emigration. One of many
:32:34. > :32:37.
:32:37. > :32:41.clubs unable to field a team. of the key issues of this advice is
:32:41. > :32:45.reconciliation, with calls for Martin McGuinness and other senior
:32:45. > :32:49.figures for greater Unionist engagement. Sinn Fein's new MEP,
:32:49. > :32:54.Martina Anderson, has been involved in this type of outreach work for
:32:54. > :33:04.the past six years. I would suggest that those people who have had an
:33:04. > :33:09.opportunity to sit down with us, have realised... I wanted to talk
:33:09. > :33:13.about as human beings, based on our commonality, all that we have in
:33:13. > :33:17.common. And as people, it didn't matter if we came from one
:33:17. > :33:21.tradition or none. But if we had an experience based on the social and
:33:22. > :33:27.economic set-up that we share it in one space. Sinn Fein likes to play
:33:27. > :33:29.off it's all Irish credentials, but is at a party of two hearts? Some
:33:29. > :33:32.of their parliamentarians in the republic are quite honest about the
:33:32. > :33:36.fact they feel the party has been to Northern focused. It's
:33:36. > :33:40.inevitable because of the Troubles and the fall-out from that, that
:33:40. > :33:44.the party has been Northern focused. But they want to get over that.
:33:44. > :33:47.They feared its holding them back in the republic. The sunshine
:33:47. > :33:53.brought out the leaders. First Martin McGuinness soaked up the
:33:53. > :33:57.attention, and then it was Gerry Adams' turn with a photocall with
:33:57. > :34:02.now too familiar delegates. From the platform, Mr Adams had a clear
:34:02. > :34:08.message for Unionists. We want to demonstrate to Unionists that a
:34:08. > :34:15.union of Ireland is in our interests. It makes sense, a single
:34:15. > :34:19.island economy makes sense. And united Ireland will emerge through
:34:19. > :34:23.a Jenny Gunn process of national reconciliation. Gerry Adams says he
:34:23. > :34:32.will lead the party into the 2016 election. And after that, he will
:34:32. > :34:35.make way for a new generation. After his keynote address, our
:34:35. > :34:40.political Editor spoke to Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams, and asked
:34:40. > :34:46.him about the significance of the reconciliation talks. I think it's
:34:47. > :34:52.very significant. Obviously this is a journey that we are all on. I
:34:52. > :34:57.think the fact that both sides in this, the Republicans and the
:34:57. > :35:02.people from the Broady Unionist region, they both see the value in
:35:02. > :35:07.it. Both accepted as genuine. I think it's important. You have to
:35:07. > :35:12.put it in the context of Martin McGuinness and Peter Robinson
:35:12. > :35:16.continuing to do their work. So there is an example of practical
:35:16. > :35:20.reconciliation. Both these men have their own politics, their own
:35:20. > :35:24.review of the world and of Ireland, but they can work together. What we
:35:24. > :35:28.need to do is to move into a slightly different phase, where we
:35:28. > :35:32.actually start to make friends with each other. Would your party
:35:32. > :35:36.chaired challenge the political leaders to get involved, but they
:35:36. > :35:42.might ask what it is about. Is it about reconciliation or a stage on
:35:42. > :35:46.the way towards the United Ireland? We need reconciliation anyway, but
:35:46. > :35:49.reconciliation on a personal level, it's a personal issue.
:35:49. > :35:54.Reconciliation as part of a conflict resolution process is
:35:54. > :36:01.bigger than that. You want to try and ensure that any one who is on
:36:01. > :36:06.the fringes of what is happening is set a better example. So it's clear
:36:06. > :36:10.that Sinn Fein is a united Ireland party, that's what we are, we make
:36:10. > :36:14.no bones about it. We believe that we would be better governing
:36:14. > :36:19.ourselves and we would make a better fist of it. We think that a
:36:19. > :36:23.republican form of government would be the best model. So let's
:36:24. > :36:27.Exchange and debate and talk these issues out. You say you want to
:36:27. > :36:30.persuade the Unionists of your perspective in relation to Irish
:36:30. > :36:34.unification, but you want persuasion the other way. They will
:36:34. > :36:39.say, what we've got right now is probably the best governance. It's
:36:39. > :36:43.a compromise. It's the best compromise at this time. Given
:36:43. > :36:48.where we all have come from, it's really crucial that we continue to
:36:48. > :36:54.stabilise the progress that has been made. Martin McGuinness put it
:36:54. > :37:01.today, when he said, we can't have a union Ireland without the
:37:01. > :37:06.Unionists. This is a cordial union. A great Protestant patriot 200
:37:06. > :37:10.years ago talked about the need for a cordial union between the people
:37:10. > :37:14.of Ireland to protect our commercial interests. To prevent
:37:14. > :37:18.the English from interfering. That is still true today. In terms of
:37:18. > :37:22.dialogue, the other group that Martin McGuinness was talking about
:37:22. > :37:26.was the dissidents. He denounced their campaign but said he was open
:37:26. > :37:30.to talk to them. At least one group has said that it is empty rhetoric
:37:30. > :37:36.and nothing came of a similar offer you made a couple of years ago.
:37:36. > :37:41.isn't that the rhetoric... Personally I'd tried. When I was
:37:41. > :37:44.based in Belfast, I contacted the various, as I understood it,
:37:44. > :37:53.officers for people who would be representing the various factions.
:37:53. > :37:57.So let them steady up. Let them test us. That group that you have
:37:57. > :38:02.just described, if they want to come along and talk, let them come
:38:02. > :38:07.along and talk. We want to be in a situation where we can persuade
:38:07. > :38:14.them. But they can object to us, they can have different policies to
:38:14. > :38:17.us, that is their entitlement. But there is no justification at all
:38:17. > :38:21.for their involvement in violent actions at this time or defending
:38:21. > :38:25.violent actions at this time. talk to Professor Rouga Wilford
:38:25. > :38:32.from Queen's University. Something of a mixed message on
:38:32. > :38:39.reconciliation. I think the reconciliation is the first step on
:38:39. > :38:43.a journey towards eventually the realisation of the unified Ireland.
:38:43. > :38:48.In order to make progress on reconciliation, I think political
:38:48. > :38:52.Unionists are going to insist that a condition of reconciliation is
:38:52. > :38:56.trust. That people will speak the truth as they go to power. Because
:38:56. > :39:01.if you are going to try and build an edifice of reconciliation brick
:39:01. > :39:05.by brick, in order to hold that edifice together you need mortar
:39:05. > :39:09.and the mortar has to be the trust that is invested in the process.
:39:09. > :39:14.But they will be suspicious, the Unionists. They will see this as a
:39:14. > :39:18.step on the road. Unionism, including the DUP, are not ill-
:39:18. > :39:24.disposed to the idea of good neighbourliness with the Republic.
:39:24. > :39:28.But it's the constitutional issue, the grumbling appendix. It can be
:39:28. > :39:32.induced into a chronic condition at any moment. If there is a lack of
:39:32. > :39:36.trust. But is it interesting that they've gone for civic leaders as
:39:36. > :39:39.opposed to politicians for these initial talks? I suppose they're
:39:39. > :39:43.spin one that would be you have to take the first step somewhere.
:39:43. > :39:48.There are many people within the Unionist community who historically
:39:48. > :39:54.have been prepared to talk to leaders of republicanism, in order
:39:54. > :39:59.to try and get disarmament and decommissioning. It could also be
:39:59. > :40:02.read as a signalling of weakness. Bano, Sinn Fein that is, that there
:40:02. > :40:06.is very little mileage at this junction in trying to engage the
:40:06. > :40:10.leaders of political unionism in talks that are designed or
:40:10. > :40:16.suspected at being designed to lead towards unification of Ireland.
:40:16. > :40:20.They've got to start somewhere. We don't have a Civic Forum which
:40:20. > :40:27.would be an ideal venue for such talks and discussions and
:40:27. > :40:32.negotiations to take place. It seems to me rather improvised, low-
:40:32. > :40:37.key, but it's used as a vehicle to demonstrate to Unionism by
:40:37. > :40:41.republicans that they are sincere about trying to effect better
:40:41. > :40:47.neighbourly relations. But then the Unionists believe that good
:40:47. > :40:51.neighbourliness depends on the various factors. On the overall
:40:51. > :40:54.picture for Sinn Fein, riding high in the opinion polls in the
:40:54. > :40:59.republic. But is it easier for them because there are such
:40:59. > :41:03.disenchantment among the public in the south? Yes. But the latest
:41:03. > :41:08.opinion polls suggest that the Yes vote is going to be injured on
:41:08. > :41:13.Thursday. Not necessarily by a large margin. But they are out of
:41:13. > :41:20.government and they can position themselves as the opposition. There
:41:20. > :41:24.was a kind of almost paraphrased, Roosevelt's famous phrase of you've
:41:24. > :41:28.nothing to fear but fear itself. And McGuinness saying that people
:41:28. > :41:33.mustn't be governed by fear of the future. And across Europe, there
:41:33. > :41:37.are political parties and movements who are opposed to what BC as the
:41:37. > :41:41.stringent austerity that is being visited upon them. In that sense,
:41:41. > :41:46.they are running with some popular tide. But actually, I don't think
:41:46. > :41:51.they are going to win. I think people are so fearful, a step in
:41:51. > :42:01.the direction of the treaty is one thing. The other is the great
:42:01. > :42:02.
:42:02. > :42:06.unknown. I think people will step This time next week, voters in the
:42:06. > :42:09.Republic will have been to the pollster vote yes or no on the
:42:09. > :42:15.fiscal treaty referendum on Europe. We asked our Dublin correspondent
:42:15. > :42:19.for an idiot's guide. 10 years after its launch, the euro has run
:42:19. > :42:23.into trouble because member states have persistently broken rules
:42:24. > :42:27.about controlling debts. Hence the fiscal treaty. Just as it is unwise
:42:27. > :42:31.for households to spend money they don't have and to get too deeply
:42:31. > :42:36.into debt, the treaty demands that eurozone members reduce their
:42:36. > :42:41.borrowing. The Republic is one of the biggest debt offenders. Mainly
:42:41. > :42:45.as a result of paying to clean up its failed banks. Countries must
:42:45. > :42:49.obey the new rules, either by raising taxes or by cutting public
:42:49. > :42:54.spending. All too often it is both. And if they don't, they face heavy
:42:54. > :42:59.fines. All the main political parties say the treaty is necessary
:42:59. > :43:03.for stability, which in turn will lead to investment in jobs.
:43:03. > :43:07.Opponents, like Sinn Fein, say it means never ending all austerity.
:43:07. > :43:10.Unless the Republic ratified the treaty, it won't get access to
:43:10. > :43:16.emergency loans. An insurance policy which it might well need
:43:16. > :43:20.when it exerts its current bail-out loan at the end of next year.
:43:20. > :43:26.Thursdays bulb could well come down to the conflicting emotions of fear
:43:26. > :43:30.of the unknown reverses and go about austerity and calls for the
:43:30. > :43:34.banks. What are the implications for as in Northern Ireland? Mike
:43:34. > :43:38.Smythe, you know all about this. If the No vote was successful, what
:43:38. > :43:47.would that mean for business in Northern Ireland? I don't think it
:43:47. > :43:51.will make that much difference. A No vote will send out a fairly
:43:51. > :43:55.negative message to international investors in Ireland. It puts a
:43:55. > :44:01.question over whether Ireland will move on to the next stage of what
:44:01. > :44:05.ever the European project will be. As far as North-South, economic
:44:05. > :44:11.relations, I don't think it makes much difference. A Yes vote,
:44:11. > :44:15.however, would cement the Republic early permanently into the euro
:44:15. > :44:21.project, where ever it goes. There would be permanently two currencies
:44:21. > :44:24.on the island, two different tax systems, security systems, etc. And
:44:25. > :44:30.closer economic co-operation would be made that much more difficult.
:44:30. > :44:36.Are you surprised how the whole debate over the treaty has gone?
:44:36. > :44:41.is a Hobson's choice. Even then Yes campaign has been characterised by
:44:41. > :44:45.a rather negative campaigning. Saying, look, if we don't vote yes,
:44:45. > :44:52.international investors will lose confidence and it may threaten
:44:52. > :44:56.foreign investment, companies might pull out. On that the no side,
:44:56. > :45:01.their main argument has been, even if we don't need a second bail-out,
:45:01. > :45:07.someone will lend us the money. So what hasn't been clear. It hasn't
:45:07. > :45:11.been decisive. To be fair, the whole euro thing has moved on. This
:45:11. > :45:15.treaty, which was agreed six months ago, was supposed to be part of the
:45:15. > :45:21.solution to the euro crisis. The euro crisis has got a lot worse and
:45:21. > :45:25.has a lot further to go. That is a big issue, even for the voters who
:45:25. > :45:27.have decided. The polls suggest that most of them don't want to
:45:27. > :45:31.vote on the referendum at this stage and Bielik should have been
:45:31. > :45:40.postponed. That's true. The French election added some way to that
:45:40. > :45:44.argument. But austerity, holding onto your job, combating falling
:45:44. > :45:48.living standards - those kind of bread and butter issues of far more
:45:48. > :45:52.important now in the republic and a rather abstract treaty referendum.
:45:52. > :45:57.And nobody has a crystal ball to know if Ireland would be better on
:45:57. > :46:01.its own. There is a tenuous argument that compared with Greece,
:46:02. > :46:05.Ireland has a Plan B. And that would be, if it ever came to it,
:46:05. > :46:09.Ireland could leave the euro and referred back to the sterling euro.
:46:09. > :46:15.It would have to default on a large part of its debts, but the feeling
:46:15. > :46:20.is it could overcome such a setback. Whereas with Greece, there doesn't
:46:20. > :46:30.seem to be any alternative. Now for our regular look at the week in 60
:46:30. > :46:33.
:46:33. > :46:39.Sharing land in north Belfast divided opinions. The alliance had
:46:39. > :46:44.enough of talking and instead opted for walking. Alliance has grown
:46:44. > :46:46.because the work behind the scenes was achieving nothing. Nothing came
:46:46. > :46:50.from a Medical Research Centre, which cost taxpayers �2 million.
:46:50. > :46:55.It's clear that there was mismanagement, bad management,
:46:55. > :47:01.there seemed to be incumbency from start to finish. Numbers of a
:47:01. > :47:06.different kind exercised a Deputy Speaker. Questions number one,
:47:06. > :47:11.three, four, 7, 8 and 14 are withdrawn. I think I'm calling
:47:11. > :47:21.bingo at this time. A bit ridiculous. But someone did have
:47:21. > :47:33.
:47:33. > :47:40.the finance minister's number. Let's look at the start of that 60
:47:40. > :47:43.seconds. The alliance walking away. What does it tell us about the DUP
:47:43. > :47:49.and Sinn Fein? Critics would say this is just another exemplar
:47:49. > :47:52.vocation of the difficulties between the two major parties.
:47:52. > :47:57.Although the SDLP were photographed alongside them in this instance.
:47:57. > :48:02.What it suggests, we were talking earlier about reconciliation, what
:48:02. > :48:10.this looks like is a separate but equal solution, with a common that
:48:10. > :48:15.space in between. It is significant that alliance, who have been highly
:48:15. > :48:21.in favour of trying to reconcile and promote community relations,
:48:21. > :48:23.they have the bottom line for taking up the justice post,
:48:23. > :48:26.progress on community relations and their improvement. Now they've
:48:26. > :48:32.walked away, I don't think he's going to walk away from his
:48:32. > :48:36.department. I think it is more than a hissy fit. I think it
:48:36. > :48:41.demonstrates to us how difficult it is to actually make progress on
:48:41. > :48:49.community relations at ground level. It is improving but it has a long
:48:49. > :48:57.way to go. I think what this does... It is perceived by critics as being
:48:57. > :49:01.a kind of home runs policy. You keep people separate. It throws
:49:01. > :49:06.that kind of rhetoric out that we heard yesterday, signals about
:49:06. > :49:10.reconciliation and discussions, I think it throws it into a harsh,
:49:10. > :49:14.Inter communal rite. Here we have two parties who simply cannot agree
:49:14. > :49:18.on a common programme that was designed to make Northern Ireland
:49:18. > :49:22.an nation at ease with itself, where there is social integration.
:49:22. > :49:27.Others would argue that they've taken the pragmatic approach and