0:00:35 > 0:00:37Morning everyone, and welcome to the Sunday Politics.
0:00:37 > 0:00:39I'm Sarah Smith.
0:00:39 > 0:00:42And this is the programme that will provide your essential briefing
0:00:42 > 0:00:43on everything that's moving and shaking in
0:00:43 > 0:00:45the world of politics.
0:00:45 > 0:00:48Can the Conservative Party speak with one voice on Brexit?
0:00:48 > 0:00:52As Tory splits spill out in to the open once again this week,
0:00:52 > 0:00:54can the Prime Minister reassert her authority
0:00:54 > 0:00:56over a divided party?
0:00:56 > 0:00:59We'll be speaking to the former Conservative Cabinet
0:00:59 > 0:01:01Minister, Theresa Villiers - hitherto a loyal voice,
0:01:01 > 0:01:05but who says she's now worried about Brexit being diluted.
0:01:05 > 0:01:08Is Jeremy Corbyn heading for a fight with Labour councillors?
0:01:08 > 0:01:11As local government chiefs accuse the party's ruling body of trying
0:01:11 > 0:01:12to intervene in local decisions,
0:01:12 > 0:01:20we'll be speaking to one of Jeremy Corbyn's key allies.
0:01:20 > 0:01:21And coming up here:
0:01:21 > 0:01:23After Friday's highs and lows on the business front,
0:01:23 > 0:01:25how resilient is Northern Ireland to global strategies
0:01:25 > 0:01:26and economic downturns?
0:01:26 > 0:01:34And how big a role can our local politicians play?
0:01:34 > 0:01:36All that coming up in the programme.
0:01:36 > 0:01:39And to help me to make sense of all the big stories today, I'm
0:01:39 > 0:01:41joined by Camilla Tominey, Rafael Behr and Rachel Shabi.
0:01:41 > 0:01:45I'm sure they certainly won't all speak with one voice.
0:01:45 > 0:01:47The newspaper headlines make pretty grim reading
0:01:47 > 0:01:48for the Government this morning.
0:01:48 > 0:01:50'Tories in Turmoil', 'Brexit betrayal',
0:01:50 > 0:01:53'PM told to raise her game'.
0:01:53 > 0:01:55Tory Brexit divisions erupted in public once again this week.
0:01:55 > 0:01:57So, is the Government's biggest priority now
0:01:57 > 0:02:05becoming its biggest headache?
0:02:10 > 0:02:15Morning, Home Secretary. They divided cabinet?A new cabinet since
0:02:15 > 0:02:22that modest reshuffle but still the same old Brexit split. Foreign
0:02:22 > 0:02:25Secretary Boris Johnson, who spent so much time on that infamous boss
0:02:25 > 0:02:31promising extra money for the NHS, went off Brive at the meeting on
0:02:31 > 0:02:37Tuesday, pushing the government to honour that much maligned pledge.Do
0:02:37 > 0:02:42you want to be the health secretary? Philip Hammond was in Brussels from
0:02:42 > 0:02:48where he sent a swift review.Mr Johnson is the foreign secretary. I
0:02:48 > 0:02:54gave the Health Secretary an extra £6 billion at the recent budget.And
0:02:54 > 0:02:58labour leader Jeremy Corbyn piled in at Prime Minister 's questions.Does
0:02:58 > 0:03:01the Prime Minister agree with the Foreign Secretary that the national
0:03:01 > 0:03:05Health Service needs an extra £5 billion?I think the right
0:03:05 > 0:03:10honourable gentleman, as I recall was here for the autumn budget which
0:03:10 > 0:03:13was given by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, where he announced he
0:03:13 > 0:03:19would be putting £6 billion more into the National Health Service.
0:03:19 > 0:03:22Meanwhile, Jacob Rees-Mogg took on the Brexit Secretary David Davis
0:03:22 > 0:03:27over the transition deal.We are only actually out at the end of the
0:03:27 > 0:03:30transition. That is a big shift in government policy and a big move
0:03:30 > 0:03:41away from the vault.I do not accept your description.
0:03:42 > 0:03:44your description.Next day, Theresa May travelled to the World Economic
0:03:44 > 0:03:49Forum in Davos to heal a different divide, this time her special
0:03:49 > 0:03:54relationship with Donald Trump.
0:03:59 > 0:04:00relationship with Donald Trump. Her Chancellor described in modest
0:04:00 > 0:04:04change in Britain's relationship with the EU. Now he was being
0:04:04 > 0:04:11rebuked by furious colleagues as well as his boss. David Davies
0:04:11 > 0:04:17insists the Cabinet are united. They want a good deal.There is no
0:04:17 > 0:04:21difference between the Chancellor and myself and indeed the Prime
0:04:21 > 0:04:24Minister, in terms of the fact we both want a Brexit that serves the
0:04:24 > 0:04:29British economy and the British people.The EU will set out their
0:04:29 > 0:04:34bargaining position for a phase two of the Brexit negotiations tomorrow.
0:04:34 > 0:04:39But can we find an agreed British response.
0:04:39 > 0:04:43So to discuss the implications of all of the week's events I've got my
0:04:43 > 0:04:49expert panel. Welcome. Camilla, these are quite remarkable headlines
0:04:49 > 0:04:53this morning about the party being in turmoil over Theresa May's
0:04:53 > 0:04:57leadership and the direction of Brexit policy. Let's start with
0:04:57 > 0:05:02Brexit. How deep are the divide?I think they are very deep. The tide
0:05:02 > 0:05:07has turned a bit in the last week. Normally when you are covering these
0:05:07 > 0:05:11issues in the lobby, there is underlying hysteria. I think there
0:05:11 > 0:05:14are quite a lot of people on both sides scratching their heads,
0:05:14 > 0:05:19looking at some of the editorials we saw in the week about the Tory
0:05:19 > 0:05:22party, particularly when referring to Theresa May as a Wizard of Oz
0:05:22 > 0:05:29character. A lot in the Tory party can't disagree with that. They
0:05:29 > 0:05:32regard her as a caretaker Prime Minister. A lot of them have been
0:05:32 > 0:05:35giving her the benefit of the doubt particularly on Brexit because she
0:05:35 > 0:05:41has been consistent about what Brexit means. That did not mean
0:05:41 > 0:05:46leaving the single market and the Customs Union. -- that it must mean.
0:05:46 > 0:05:50To have Boris Johnson and Philip Hammond freelancing on the sidelines
0:05:50 > 0:05:54makes her look weak and unable to keep the Cabinet together. That
0:05:54 > 0:05:59gives the general impression to the country that they aren't quite in
0:05:59 > 0:06:03charge of things and that she particularly isn't across her brief.
0:06:03 > 0:06:07The key question at the heart of this is which of these Cabinet
0:06:07 > 0:06:13ministers are reflecting the Prime Minister pots opinion on this --'s
0:06:13 > 0:06:16opinion on this. Does she agree with Philip Hammond, or is she looking
0:06:16 > 0:06:22for a more significant divergence? This is absolutely critical. We talk
0:06:22 > 0:06:28about Brexit divisions. We are used to thinking about the division being
0:06:28 > 0:06:32about Remainers and levers. That is not the division we are talking
0:06:32 > 0:06:38about. There is a group of people in government who have now focused on
0:06:38 > 0:06:41the practical technical difficulty of what is required to get Britain
0:06:41 > 0:06:45safely out of the European Union. And they for the most part, and I
0:06:45 > 0:06:49will include the Prime Minister, have understood it is a long
0:06:49 > 0:06:53incremental process. You want an arrangement that looks pretty much
0:06:53 > 0:06:57like the status quo. If there is going to be divergence from EU
0:06:57 > 0:07:00rules, it will be incremental. We get the impression the Prime
0:07:00 > 0:07:03Minister has signed off on that approach because she is a cautious
0:07:03 > 0:07:08person. The problem is the Chancellor said it out loud. He had
0:07:08 > 0:07:14the temerity to say it. This is the plan. You have the other group of
0:07:14 > 0:07:17people, the harder, more ideological Brexiteers are not in government,
0:07:17 > 0:07:21who don't have to focus on the practical reality, look at that and
0:07:21 > 0:07:24think, that doesn't sound like emancipation and freedom, that
0:07:24 > 0:07:31sounds a bit boring. When you listen to what some of the critics of the
0:07:31 > 0:07:35Prime Minister from the hard Brexit position are saying, it is not
0:07:35 > 0:07:38obvious what they are asking her to do. What they want from her is a
0:07:38 > 0:07:45sense of clarity, a sense of whether or not she can have the confidence
0:07:45 > 0:07:49to stand up and say, the Chancellor is right. They are testing courtesy
0:07:49 > 0:07:53of she can do that and she won't do that because she doesn't want the
0:07:53 > 0:07:59huge tsunami of betrayal from the right.It is also impossible
0:07:59 > 0:08:03Bridgeford Theresa May to try and cross. How can she reconcile these
0:08:03 > 0:08:07different views of what Brexit is going to look like at the point
0:08:07 > 0:08:12where we have to start laying out what Britain's approach will be?
0:08:12 > 0:08:17That is the problem. The divisions are seemingly irreconcilable in the
0:08:17 > 0:08:21party. That is their own problem. It has become a national problem
0:08:21 > 0:08:26because they are doing it while in government. They have a over us
0:08:26 > 0:08:30while they are falling apart. That is completely irresponsible. In
0:08:30 > 0:08:37terms of where we are going to end up, we all know. We saw from phase
0:08:37 > 0:08:43one of EU that actually everything was conceded to the soft Brexit
0:08:43 > 0:08:47model was conceded two in what was agreed to during the parameters of
0:08:47 > 0:08:51phase one. It seems like, do we really have to go through this all
0:08:51 > 0:08:56again, this pretend, this bickering, this biting, when we know in the end
0:08:56 > 0:09:01we are going to end up with a situation that is a soft Brexit
0:09:01 > 0:09:04because this is where the major constituency is in Westminster and
0:09:04 > 0:09:08the country.We have a couple of guest to make disagree with that. We
0:09:08 > 0:09:10will return to you guys later.
0:09:10 > 0:09:12Well, the Cabinet Minister David Lidington was talking
0:09:12 > 0:09:15to Andrew Marr this morning, and was asked about the backlash
0:09:15 > 0:09:17on the Government's Brexit strategy from Jacob Rees-Mogg and other
0:09:17 > 0:09:20Conservative MPs.
0:09:20 > 0:09:27Jacob, like everybody else, needs to see how negotiations go. We are
0:09:27 > 0:09:30about to start negotiations. I'm not going into detail about that
0:09:30 > 0:09:35process. Secondly, the very fact that we will have left the European
0:09:35 > 0:09:40Union is a big deal indeed. The bill in front of Parliament extinguishes
0:09:40 > 0:09:45the power of the European Court and supranational EU law over the UK.
0:09:45 > 0:09:47I'm joined now by the former Cabinet Minister, Theresa Villiers.
0:09:47 > 0:09:49She has written a piece in today's Sunday Telegraph telling
0:09:49 > 0:09:54of her growing concern that Brexit is being diluted.
0:09:54 > 0:10:01Thank you for coming on. What do you mean by Brexit been diluted?I have
0:10:01 > 0:10:05consistently argued the case for compromise and I recognise it is
0:10:05 > 0:10:12necessary. What I was saying in my article this morning was that if you
0:10:12 > 0:10:15go too far with compromise, eventually you get to the point
0:10:15 > 0:10:18where we wouldn't generally be leaving the European Union, we
0:10:18 > 0:10:21wouldn't be respecting the result of the referendum.You are concerned
0:10:21 > 0:10:27that is the direction they're heading in?I am concerned. We must
0:10:27 > 0:10:31retain the right to divergence Romeu laws. One of the key points of
0:10:31 > 0:10:36leaving the European Union is to ensure that we make our own laws in
0:10:36 > 0:10:41our own parliaments and not be subject to laws made by people we
0:10:41 > 0:10:45don't elect and can't remove.What has made you concerned that is the
0:10:45 > 0:10:49direction in which we are heading? Is it Chancellor talking about
0:10:49 > 0:10:53modest changes or something happening behind the scenes?It is a
0:10:53 > 0:10:58combination of things. I think in part the government faces a
0:10:58 > 0:11:02difficult challenge convincing people on the Leave side of the
0:11:02 > 0:11:05debate. So many times in the past there have been Prime Ministers
0:11:05 > 0:11:09who've gone to Brussels and said, it will be fine, we would bring you
0:11:09 > 0:11:14back a deal, and at the last minute there has been, territory has been
0:11:14 > 0:11:18given away. We have made compromises. I accept the need for
0:11:18 > 0:11:22that. There is only so far you can go before ultimately you find
0:11:22 > 0:11:27yourself in a position where you are deleting Brexit so much that it
0:11:27 > 0:11:31isn't leaving the European Union in a real sense.When you hear Philip
0:11:31 > 0:11:35Hammond say they will only be modest changes to our relationship with the
0:11:35 > 0:11:39EU, you think he is reflecting government policy? Downing Street
0:11:39 > 0:11:46tried to refute what he was saying. Only actually said was, you can't
0:11:46 > 0:11:51call leaving the single market and Customs union a modest change. You
0:11:51 > 0:11:54are anxious, are you, that right at the top they are worried about
0:11:54 > 0:11:59keeping fairly close alignment with the EU?The Prime Minister set out a
0:11:59 > 0:12:03bold vision for Brexit in her Lancaster House speech. My article
0:12:03 > 0:12:08is about appealing to the government to stick to that vision and
0:12:08 > 0:12:11implemented so that once we leave the European Union we are back in
0:12:11 > 0:12:16control of our laws, money and borders.The Prime Minister has set
0:12:16 > 0:12:20this out in Lancaster House and in Florence. Why do you think she would
0:12:20 > 0:12:26be backsliding? Makes you think anything has changed?I don't think
0:12:26 > 0:12:30she wants to backslide. I think what is happening is that she is under
0:12:30 > 0:12:34huge sustained pressure from a range of quarters to reverse the result of
0:12:34 > 0:12:40the referendum. So in part, but I am trying to do is to re-emphasise the
0:12:40 > 0:12:44positive case for Brexit. And we emphasise that whilst there are
0:12:44 > 0:12:51those who want to soften things up and frustrate the implementation of
0:12:51 > 0:12:54the referendum, others are enthusiastic about implementing that
0:12:54 > 0:12:58vision in the Lancaster House speech.Were those people who want
0:12:58 > 0:13:01to frustrate her? You must be worried they are right inside the
0:13:01 > 0:13:07Cabinet for you to write a newspaper article about this. You must be
0:13:07 > 0:13:12worried if his right at the top of government?I don't believe that. I
0:13:12 > 0:13:19think the Cabinet is united in wanting to do this.
0:13:19 > 0:13:21wanting to do this.After the different views we had this week?
0:13:21 > 0:13:26This is an issue that has divided the country. The key battle now is
0:13:26 > 0:13:31what is going to be the end state we ask for in the negotiations? We must
0:13:31 > 0:13:36ask for an end state based on the Lancaster House speech, which means
0:13:36 > 0:13:38retaining control, making our own laws in our own Parliament. That is
0:13:38 > 0:13:43how we have -- we become genuinely an independent country again and
0:13:43 > 0:13:49respect the result of the referendum.Do you think the
0:13:49 > 0:13:52Chancellor was contravening stated policy when he talked about modest
0:13:52 > 0:13:56changes. --? Was he out of line?I wouldn't make too much of that one
0:13:56 > 0:14:00comment. That has not wanted my concerns. What I want to do is
0:14:00 > 0:14:06ensure the case for a real Brexit is made. I fully acknowledge the
0:14:06 > 0:14:11technical scale of the exercise of withdrawing from the European Union.
0:14:11 > 0:14:16It is very complicated. That is one of the reasons why I have had a --
0:14:16 > 0:14:19advocated and supported compromise. There is only so far you can go
0:14:19 > 0:14:24without -- with compromise without finding yourself selling out on the
0:14:24 > 0:14:27people who voted to leave.The next phase will be about the
0:14:27 > 0:14:32implementation period before we get to the final future relationship
0:14:32 > 0:14:36with the EU. We learned a little bit more about the government approached
0:14:36 > 0:14:40and that this week. David Davis made it sound as if there will be no
0:14:40 > 0:14:44changes to free movement of people whatsoever during the two-year
0:14:44 > 0:14:48transition phase. Does that concern you? That seems to be a change in
0:14:48 > 0:14:53policy.For me, the important issue is what happens at the end of the
0:14:53 > 0:14:59transition period.You are relaxed about two years of transition which
0:14:59 > 0:15:04looks most identical to staying in the EU?I accept that looks like
0:15:04 > 0:15:08what is current to happen. I think there is a case for a transition
0:15:08 > 0:15:13period. I think my worry now is if we go into the transition period
0:15:13 > 0:15:16without the clearest possible understanding of what the
0:15:16 > 0:15:19arrangements are when we leave, so I believe that we must have as much
0:15:19 > 0:15:25detail as possible in relation to our agreement with the European
0:15:25 > 0:15:29Union, that we reach before the transition period starts. If we go
0:15:29 > 0:15:36into it not knowing the end state, that would worry me.
0:15:37 > 0:15:40When it comes to the end state, what are the things you couldn't sign up
0:15:40 > 0:15:48to? What's being described as easy movement of people in and out of the
0:15:48 > 0:15:52UK, would that lead to a point it was a Brexit deal you couldn't agree
0:15:52 > 0:15:59to?The key issues are the end state must allow the UK to run its own
0:15:59 > 0:16:02trade policy and make its own decisions on rules and regulations.
0:16:02 > 0:16:08So no involvement from the European Court of Justice?The Government has
0:16:08 > 0:16:15agreed a time limited role for that. I don't see it as a problem but any
0:16:15 > 0:16:19enlargement of that role I would see as worrying.Do you think there's
0:16:19 > 0:16:24any possibility you could end up voting against this in Parliament?
0:16:24 > 0:16:28I'm not going to make predictions on how I will vote on a deal that
0:16:28 > 0:16:32hasn't been agreed yet. I want to make sure we work together to try to
0:16:32 > 0:16:36bridge divisions, to come up with an agreement with the European Union
0:16:36 > 0:16:41which gives us a new partnership with them, which hopefully a
0:16:41 > 0:16:44majority can be comfortable whichever way they vote in June 2000
0:16:44 > 0:16:4716.Thank you.
0:16:47 > 0:16:49Joining me now from Newcastle is the Brexit
0:16:49 > 0:16:51Minister Lord Callanan.
0:16:51 > 0:16:54Can you offer any reassurance to Theresa Villiers and any other
0:16:54 > 0:16:58members of your party who are worried about this that government
0:16:58 > 0:17:03is not going soft on Brexit?We are not going soft, there's been no
0:17:03 > 0:17:08backsliding on the Prime Minister's Lancaster house speech. We will be
0:17:08 > 0:17:13regaining control of our laws, money and borders. We will be establishing
0:17:13 > 0:17:21an independent trade policy as she set out in her speech.
0:17:21 > 0:17:23set out in her speech.Theresa Villiers is completely wrong when
0:17:23 > 0:17:28she says she's worried Brexit is being diluted, is she?Yes, she is
0:17:28 > 0:17:33wrong. It's not being diluted, the Prime Minister is in charge of the
0:17:33 > 0:17:37negotiations and we will be negotiating with our European
0:17:37 > 0:17:41partners in good faith, our friends and allies, but the objectives
0:17:41 > 0:17:45remain as she set out.So it was the Chancellor who was wrong when he
0:17:45 > 0:17:49said there would only be modest changes in our relationship?No, the
0:17:49 > 0:17:54Chancellor has said he is of the vision the Prime Minister has set
0:17:54 > 0:17:59out.
0:17:59 > 0:18:03out. We will be negotiating with our European partners to bring about
0:18:03 > 0:18:06frictionless trading arrangements but the important part of the
0:18:06 > 0:18:11negotiations is that we have to regain control of our ability to set
0:18:11 > 0:18:15our own rules and undulations. Though there may be some areas where
0:18:15 > 0:18:19if there are integrated supply lines we might want to reflect current EU
0:18:19 > 0:18:23regulations but the important thing is we decide those matters for
0:18:23 > 0:18:28ourselves.David Davis presumably speaks for government when he is
0:18:28 > 0:18:31describing the transition phase, and he says during this implementation
0:18:31 > 0:18:37period people will of course be able to travel between the UK and the EU
0:18:37 > 0:18:40to live and work. That sounds like free movement is continuing as
0:18:40 > 0:18:49before but we were told it would end as soon as we left the EU in 2019.
0:18:49 > 0:18:53We would introduce a registration scheme so we knew he was coming to
0:18:53 > 0:18:58the country.You could do that right now. This registration idea, this is
0:18:58 > 0:19:03not something that comes about because we have left the EU, we
0:19:03 > 0:19:08could have introduced that years ago if we wanted to. Several European
0:19:08 > 0:19:15countries asked the UK citizens to register.Let's see what the
0:19:15 > 0:19:19negotiations produced, but what we want to do is reflect current rules
0:19:19 > 0:19:23and regulations as closely as possible so that at the end of the
0:19:23 > 0:19:27implementation period, and it's important that is strictly
0:19:27 > 0:19:31time-limited, we agree with the EU on that, at the end of that state we
0:19:31 > 0:19:36will introduce a new immigration policy and take control of our
0:19:36 > 0:19:46rules, regulations and borders. It sounds
0:19:46 > 0:19:50sounds a lot like a red line that has gone very pale pink.
0:19:50 > 0:19:54We are about to have the negotiations. We will sit down in
0:19:54 > 0:19:58good faith with our European partners, talk about how the
0:19:58 > 0:20:02implementation period will work and what the end state will be.But we
0:20:02 > 0:20:06don't have to wait to find out what the UK Government position is
0:20:06 > 0:20:10because David Davis set it out this week and pretty much described free
0:20:10 > 0:20:15movement continuing as it is.As I said, we are having the
0:20:15 > 0:20:19negotiations, we are about to start them, let's not give away our
0:20:19 > 0:20:23positions before we do that. We want to reach an agreement as soon as
0:20:23 > 0:20:27possible so we get certainty that business knows where we are going at
0:20:27 > 0:20:31the end of the period and we move towards the new state at the end of
0:20:31 > 0:20:38a strictly time-limited implementation period.So would it
0:20:38 > 0:20:40be helpful if the Prime Minister were to make another speech, where
0:20:40 > 0:20:43she set out clearly what the Government's position is on the
0:20:43 > 0:20:46future direction of travel on the transition period and future end
0:20:46 > 0:20:50state so that instead of listening to Cabinet ministers with diverging
0:20:50 > 0:20:54views on this, we knew from the Prime Minister what the Government's
0:20:54 > 0:21:01policy was?The policy remains what she set out in detail in the
0:21:01 > 0:21:04Lancaster house speech followed up by the Florence speech where she
0:21:04 > 0:21:08outlined the new end state we want to end up with and the procedures
0:21:08 > 0:21:14for getting there. She set it out in great detail, that was very clear
0:21:14 > 0:21:23but we need to have under -- negotiation at the end of the day.
0:21:23 > 0:21:26These are difficult, complicated and tricky areas but we remain focused
0:21:26 > 0:21:31on the end state which is we will be leaving the single market and the
0:21:31 > 0:21:36customs union, having independent trade policy and deciding our own
0:21:36 > 0:21:39rules and regulations.The EU Withdrawal Bill will come to the
0:21:39 > 0:21:46Lords this week to your house, are we going to see government
0:21:46 > 0:21:52compromise?We will be listening to the debate. We showed that we were
0:21:52 > 0:21:56prepared to reflect and think about contributions made, and if people
0:21:56 > 0:22:00have suggestions that we agree with that we will improve the legislation
0:22:00 > 0:22:04and of course we will do that. The House of Lords has a very important
0:22:04 > 0:22:08role and we will carry that out effectively and we will listen to
0:22:08 > 0:22:12what the debate says.So you are open to government amendments
0:22:12 > 0:22:20changing the EU Withdrawal Bill? On issues like Henry VIII powers or
0:22:20 > 0:22:24something like that?We have already compromised on those areas in the
0:22:24 > 0:22:29House of Commons so we will listen to what the debate brings. Peers
0:22:29 > 0:22:33take their role of scrutinising EU legislation closely and we will
0:22:33 > 0:22:37reflect on that and introduce changes if we think they are
0:22:37 > 0:22:41warranted.Thanks for talking to us this morning.
0:22:41 > 0:22:44And you can find more Brexit analysis and explanation on the
0:22:44 > 0:22:45BBC website.
0:22:45 > 0:22:46This week Labour's ruling body, the National
0:22:46 > 0:22:49Executive Committee, or NEC, stepped in to a bitter row
0:22:49 > 0:22:51about a controversial housing project in the London
0:22:51 > 0:22:52borough of Haringey.
0:22:52 > 0:22:54It's led to deep divisions between the NEC and councillors
0:22:54 > 0:22:57across the country, with the Labour leader of Newcastle City Council
0:22:57 > 0:23:03calling it a "declaration of war".
0:23:03 > 0:23:05With Jeremy Corbyn supporters consolidating their grip
0:23:05 > 0:23:07on the ruling body of the party, Emma Vardy's been looking
0:23:07 > 0:23:12at the new battle lines being drawn.
0:23:13 > 0:23:17You might not think to look at it but this council estate in north
0:23:17 > 0:23:21London is being seen as a battle ground for the very soul of the
0:23:21 > 0:23:27Labour Party. Labour run Haringey plans to redevelop the estate in
0:23:27 > 0:23:32partnership with a private company but the pro-Corbyn pressure group
0:23:32 > 0:23:39momentum has led a campaign opposing it.You do not gift people's houses
0:23:39 > 0:23:44to a private developer and say you can demolish these...When Labour's
0:23:44 > 0:23:48ruling body, the NEC, intervened telling Haringey to force the
0:23:48 > 0:23:53project, some Labour supporters were outraged.We have now got the
0:23:53 > 0:23:56National executive committee effectively telling a Labour council
0:23:56 > 0:24:03what to do and I'm thinking where does this end?This, some believe,
0:24:03 > 0:24:08is what they see as the hard left of the party using the row as an excuse
0:24:08 > 0:24:12to get rid of more moderate Labour council is ahead of next year 's
0:24:12 > 0:24:16elections. Around a third of the Haringey Labour group of either been
0:24:16 > 0:24:22deselected or they have stood down. How is this being seen by other
0:24:22 > 0:24:26Labour council is looking on? There's 100 names on an open letter
0:24:26 > 0:24:31to the NEC today saying stay out of local council business, and one of
0:24:31 > 0:24:36them, the Labour leader of Corby Borough Council who can be found up
0:24:36 > 0:24:43there, called it a disgrace.I signed the letter because I wanted
0:24:43 > 0:24:47to demonstrate solidarity with a colleague, also to send a message to
0:24:47 > 0:24:51the NEC that we believe it is inappropriate to intervene in the
0:24:51 > 0:24:56way they did. Labour and local government are the people governing
0:24:56 > 0:25:00here in this country, we are not in Government nationally, we are in
0:25:00 > 0:25:06Government locally and we are doing a good job locally. We are
0:25:06 > 0:25:10protecting our people.Do you think the NEC will listen?I would hope
0:25:10 > 0:25:16so.The intervention that led to this row came for the first time
0:25:16 > 0:25:23since Momentum leader was elected as one of its members.The NEC has
0:25:23 > 0:25:27expressed a view, it has not mandated, not stormed in and taken
0:25:27 > 0:25:32over, and I think for every person you can find who is upset I can find
0:25:32 > 0:25:37tenants who are delighted.Jeremy Corbyn's support base on the NEC has
0:25:37 > 0:25:39been strengthened after recent elections so could this lead to
0:25:39 > 0:25:44sweeping changes on party policy in the future?Where you can see
0:25:44 > 0:25:49greater radicalism is on areas of economic policy, following Carillion
0:25:49 > 0:25:53Labour has been clear they want an end to outsourcing completely if
0:25:53 > 0:25:57they are elected, that they would like to take contracts back
0:25:57 > 0:26:02in-house, and at a local of all the tensions exist as well.What is the
0:26:02 > 0:26:08risk with upsetting councils?Is it causes local divisions and they want
0:26:08 > 0:26:14parties to be focused on governing. It also threatens to cause tensions
0:26:14 > 0:26:19between MPs. A lot of MPs see Labour councillors as proud bastions of the
0:26:19 > 0:26:24party and see them as a barrier to those who they think are taking too
0:26:24 > 0:26:30much of a faction or ideological approach.What would your message
0:26:30 > 0:26:34beta Jeremy Corbyn?That the Labour Party are very fortunate to have a
0:26:34 > 0:26:38large cohort of very experienced and talented councillors up and down the
0:26:38 > 0:26:44country. We know what we are doing, a us to get on with that.Local
0:26:44 > 0:26:52councils aside, in Parliament Jeremy Corbyn has won the
0:26:52 > 0:26:55Corbyn has won the support of many Labour MPs who now believe he should
0:26:55 > 0:26:57lead them into the next election, but could it be the relationship
0:26:57 > 0:27:00with the wider party in local government that becomes the one that
0:27:00 > 0:27:01is more difficult to manage?
0:27:01 > 0:27:02Emma Vardy reporting.
0:27:02 > 0:27:04Jon Trickett is a member of the Shadow Cabinet, and also sits
0:27:04 > 0:27:06on Labour's National Executive Committee.
0:27:06 > 0:27:12He joins me now from Yorkshire.
0:27:12 > 0:27:16We have got the leader of Newcastle City Council, the Labour leader,
0:27:16 > 0:27:21saying this is a declaration of war, the NEC getting involved in the
0:27:21 > 0:27:28local government decision.The first thing to say is Labour is in
0:27:28 > 0:27:31Government throughout this country in local councils, we are very proud
0:27:31 > 0:27:35of our record in local government but the NEC took a decision the
0:27:35 > 0:27:39other day, it was unanimous by the way, nobody voted against it, and
0:27:39 > 0:27:43Nick was in the room. He made a strong case for the autonomy of
0:27:43 > 0:27:47councils and in general that is what we think too. In fact we want to
0:27:47 > 0:27:53bring more powers back to local council...You cannot reconcile
0:27:53 > 0:27:57giving more power to councils with the idea there is a top-down diktats
0:27:57 > 0:28:02on what decisions councils must take.Let me just finish the point
0:28:02 > 0:28:08because what the NEC did was to ask for a pause. We did it politely but
0:28:08 > 0:28:12we said before that should happen, let's have a conversation between
0:28:12 > 0:28:17Haringey and the NEC and that conversation is now taking place or
0:28:17 > 0:28:21Wilby. I think this is an exaggerated row and when people look
0:28:21 > 0:28:26at the facts, we have asked for a pause is not necessarily a change in
0:28:26 > 0:28:33policy, though we think the policy was wrong and we want a conversation
0:28:33 > 0:28:38with Haringey.You are having a conversation between the NEC and
0:28:38 > 0:28:41Haringey. If Haringey Council refused to change their minds about
0:28:41 > 0:28:48this, they will then be subject to a diktats from the NEC, will they not?
0:28:48 > 0:28:51I'm not going to go into a speculative conversation with you
0:28:51 > 0:28:58but let's remember the background to this. This is effectively a huge
0:28:58 > 0:29:02deal outsourcing huge amounts of resources and assets in Haringey. It
0:29:02 > 0:29:09is very controversial and remember this, the NEC received a letter from
0:29:09 > 0:29:1322 Labour councillors on Haringey Council asking for a pause. We
0:29:13 > 0:29:18reacted to that request from within Haringey itself and all of this
0:29:18 > 0:29:23takes in the background of problems at Grenfell and also with the
0:29:23 > 0:29:27collapse of Carillion, both of which I think our matters we need to be
0:29:27 > 0:29:31thinking about when we are thinking in local councils about outsourcing
0:29:31 > 0:29:34additional provision. I am optimistic we will find an amicable
0:29:34 > 0:29:39way forward.It gets to a fundamental policy aspect of the
0:29:39 > 0:29:43Labour Party as to who makes decisions and surely you say some
0:29:43 > 0:29:52Labour councils were concerned about this, the majority of Labour members
0:29:52 > 0:29:58on the council were in favour of it.
0:29:59 > 0:30:01The ruling body of the Labour Party is obliged by the Constitution to
0:30:01 > 0:30:09take a view where there is clearly a dispute within one of our
0:30:09 > 0:30:12constitutional elements. And there was an absolutely clear position
0:30:12 > 0:30:18that there was a dispute. We were asked to intervene. We took a view
0:30:18 > 0:30:22and asked the council to think about it again and agreed to mediation. I
0:30:22 > 0:30:27don't think this is unreasonable. The Constitution of the party
0:30:27 > 0:30:31requires the NEC from time to time to make sure that the constitutional
0:30:31 > 0:30:34elements operate within the policies, programmes and principles
0:30:34 > 0:30:41of the Labour Party. I think it is a storm in a teacup.It is about the
0:30:41 > 0:30:45controversial issue of outsourcing. That is something you are speaking
0:30:45 > 0:30:50out about this week, saying the Labour government would reverse
0:30:50 > 0:30:54outsourcing, setting out clear rules for companies you would give
0:30:54 > 0:30:56contracts to, including the idea that the boss should not be paid
0:30:56 > 0:31:03more than 20 times more than the lowest paid worker. It would be
0:31:03 > 0:31:09quite difficult to find construction companies to build, say, HS2 if
0:31:09 > 0:31:14you're going to stick to those rules?Well, there are all kinds of
0:31:14 > 0:31:18different contracts which are outsourced. Some of them can be done
0:31:18 > 0:31:23by the public sector, others can't. We will be thinking about those
0:31:23 > 0:31:28services which are outsourced. The facts are if you work for the
0:31:28 > 0:31:32Council or the government, the top ratio to the average pay is 20 to
0:31:32 > 0:31:41one. In the private sector it is 156 to one. That means in a year's work
0:31:41 > 0:31:45by a chief executive, the average worker has to work 156 years, almost
0:31:45 > 0:31:50for working like -- lifetimes. We don't think that is how taxpayers
0:31:50 > 0:31:54want the money spent.When you say you won't give government contracts
0:31:54 > 0:32:01to companies who don't have this 20 to one pay ratio you are talking all
0:32:01 > 0:32:08government contracts?We have said we want to move towards a ratio of
0:32:08 > 0:32:1120 to one. I don't think people watching will have any compunction
0:32:11 > 0:32:18to say that is not unreasonable. If you are a boss you should definitely
0:32:18 > 0:32:23earn more than the average pay. But 156 times? I don't think that is
0:32:23 > 0:32:30reasonable.Depends how quickly you would move towards this. If you got
0:32:30 > 0:32:36into government and took over the management of say HS2, and there are
0:32:36 > 0:32:40£7 billion worth of contracts, most are companies which don't fit your
0:32:40 > 0:32:44criteria, would you be cancelling those contracts are maintaining
0:32:44 > 0:32:50contracts with companies that don't fit your pay rules?Contracts which
0:32:50 > 0:32:54are already left, you cannot easily break those contracts, nor should
0:32:54 > 0:32:59you want to. It would be illegal. If the contract was operating in a way
0:32:59 > 0:33:03which was contrary to the contract, clearly we would want to look at
0:33:03 > 0:33:12bringing that back in-house. It is horses for horses -- courses.
0:33:13 > 0:33:15horses for horses -- courses.So you would continue with the contracts
0:33:15 > 0:33:18the government signed for the construction of HS2 even though
0:33:18 > 0:33:23these companies don't meet your criteria?In the case of HS2,
0:33:23 > 0:33:28remember, it went to Carillion, and 20 Carillion after government knew
0:33:28 > 0:33:36they were in trouble.There are ten more companies involved in this.But
0:33:36 > 0:33:40Carillion are in trouble. The truth is the government gave them billions
0:33:40 > 0:33:44of pounds, I think it was £1.4 billion, to a company which was
0:33:44 > 0:33:47clearly going belly up. It is completely wrong.
0:33:47 > 0:33:55Jon Trickett, thank you. I will talk to the panel about what we have
0:33:55 > 0:33:58heard on the programme so far. In Trieste -- interesting ideas from
0:33:58 > 0:34:05Jon Trickett. It would be harder to impose their rules about outsourcing
0:34:05 > 0:34:13and private companies, wouldn't it? Not necessarily. The Carillion thing
0:34:13 > 0:34:19as come at an interesting time. It has exposed in bold the kind of
0:34:19 > 0:34:24suspicion we have had for some time, which is that these PFIs are really
0:34:24 > 0:34:31just a vehicle for private companies to take public funding and not
0:34:31 > 0:34:35deliver on the services that they were supposed to do. It ends up
0:34:35 > 0:34:42costing us more. It is in line with a shift in public mood we have seen.
0:34:42 > 0:34:45There is overwhelming support for nationalisation across sectors, from
0:34:45 > 0:34:52utilities to railways and actually across politics. Conservative voters
0:34:52 > 0:34:56favour nationalisation. It is no wonder that we have this level of
0:34:56 > 0:35:03discontent when we see something like Carillion happen. Yes, it might
0:35:03 > 0:35:06be difficult in the short term to return some of those contracts into
0:35:06 > 0:35:10public hands. But it is going to be cheaper and more efficient and
0:35:10 > 0:35:15better for everyone in the long term, that much is clear.Camilla,
0:35:15 > 0:35:21do you think it is even possible to impose these kinds of rules, the 20
0:35:21 > 0:35:26to one pay ratio, four any company with a government contract?No. And
0:35:26 > 0:35:31as Andrew Gilligan's piece in the Sunday Times showed, a lot of these
0:35:31 > 0:35:37ideological premises have no basis in law whatsoever. Momentum has
0:35:37 > 0:35:41suggested to Capp pay at £60,000. What effect would that have on head
0:35:41 > 0:35:43teachers in Haringey? The people in
0:35:43 > 0:35:44What effect would that have on head Haringey did not vote for a
0:35:44 > 0:35:48Momentum, they voted for Labour. Haringey is a broad church. It takes
0:35:48 > 0:35:49in top on one hand and Highgate on
0:35:49 > 0:35:54Haringey is a broad church. It takes the other. Our Momentum's policies
0:35:54 > 0:35:58representative of the constituency as a whole? No. It is deeply
0:35:58 > 0:36:05worrying people are being deselected by people with fanatical views. John
0:36:05 > 0:36:10Landis man is hugely controversial figure. He claims to be a Bastian of
0:36:10 > 0:36:16socialism and socialist policies, yet at the same time we have
0:36:16 > 0:36:18discovered, and the Sunday Express have had a lot of in-depth analysis
0:36:18 > 0:36:22of his own finances, he recently loaned £5,000 to his son's property
0:36:22 > 0:36:30company, which in turn is charged with franchising McDonald's outlets.
0:36:30 > 0:36:38John Landsman is not here to defend himself. Move on from that point.
0:36:38 > 0:36:43Let me bring in Raphael first. Haringey is emblematic of a wider
0:36:43 > 0:36:48thing happening in the Labour Party. You have got the NEC that met this
0:36:48 > 0:36:52week, the first time since you had more Momentum members elected.
0:36:52 > 0:36:55Interesting to watch if it changes the decisions they make. How
0:36:55 > 0:37:00worrying will it be people to see them getting involved in something
0:37:00 > 0:37:05as local as the decisions in Haringey?Momentum is a complex
0:37:05 > 0:37:09institution. It is not an ideological phalanx or something
0:37:09 > 0:37:15captured by the hard left. What is very interesting about this is that
0:37:15 > 0:37:18this is a tension within the left and labour that predates Jeremy
0:37:18 > 0:37:25Corbyn and Momentum. You have a tension between people who would
0:37:25 > 0:37:29start with a fixed idea of what it means invincible to be on the left,
0:37:29 > 0:37:34and people who take a slightly more pragmatic view to get elected.
0:37:34 > 0:37:37Broadly within the Labour Party at the moment Jeremy Corbyn as won the
0:37:37 > 0:37:42ideological argument. People have been marginalised. The problem is
0:37:42 > 0:37:46when you had the election last year and labour did better than a lot of
0:37:46 > 0:37:49people thought, including a lot better than Jeremy Corbyn and John
0:37:49 > 0:37:53McDonnell thought, something switched and Labour thought, we can
0:37:53 > 0:37:57do this, we can get into government. Suddenly the pragmatic tendency
0:37:57 > 0:38:03started to appear within the Corbyn movement. The tension is not between
0:38:03 > 0:38:08anti-Corbyn and pro Corbyn. It is about how you sneak up power, not
0:38:08 > 0:38:12alienate too many people. Can you actually win, beat Theresa May and
0:38:12 > 0:38:16get into government? That tension is happening inside the head of Jeremy
0:38:16 > 0:38:20Corbyn and John McDonnell. It is happening inside the head of Jon
0:38:20 > 0:38:22Trickett. We have to leave that now.
0:38:22 > 0:38:24It's coming up to 11.40 - you're watching the Sunday Politics.
0:38:24 > 0:38:27Coming up on the programme, the Leader of the Opposition
0:38:27 > 0:38:29and the leader of the free world have been giving their advice
0:38:29 > 0:38:32to the Prime Minister on how to conduct Brexit.
0:38:32 > 0:38:34We'll be discussing all that a little later on.
0:38:34 > 0:38:40First though, the Sunday Politics where you are.
0:38:40 > 0:38:43Hello and welcome to Sunday Politics in Northern Ireland.
0:38:43 > 0:38:46In less than 24 hours at the tail end of last week,
0:38:46 > 0:38:49Northern Ireland suffered the slings and arrows of
0:38:49 > 0:38:50big business decisions.
0:38:50 > 0:38:53It was good news for jobs on the one hand
0:38:53 > 0:38:54and potentially bad news on the other.
0:38:54 > 0:38:57I'll be talking to union and manufacturing leaders
0:38:57 > 0:39:01about those jobs, both lost and saved, and asking if we should
0:39:01 > 0:39:06be concerned about the security of power supply here?
0:39:06 > 0:39:09And joining me with their take on the ups and downs of
0:39:09 > 0:39:16the past week, we say welcome back to Patricia Mac Bride and Alex Kane.
0:39:16 > 0:39:20So, in the next few months almost 250 jobs are set to go
0:39:20 > 0:39:24in East Antrim with the closure of Kilroot Power Station,
0:39:24 > 0:39:27but in East Belfast thousands of workers in Bombardier
0:39:27 > 0:39:29got the news that crippling tariffs won't be imposed
0:39:29 > 0:39:31on the planes they help to make.
0:39:31 > 0:39:35The lifting of that huge threat was widely welcomed,
0:39:35 > 0:39:37but it also led to fiery political exchanges on social media
0:39:37 > 0:39:41on Friday night as to who should be credited with the success.
0:39:41 > 0:39:44Stephen Kelly, the chief executive of Manufacturing NI,
0:39:44 > 0:39:46is in our Foyle studio.
0:39:46 > 0:39:49Davy Thompson of the Unite union is with me in the studio.
0:39:49 > 0:39:51I'll be speaking to them in a moment, but first,
0:39:51 > 0:39:54here's our business and economics editor, John Campbell,
0:39:54 > 0:40:02with a catch-up on the Bombardier news which broke on Friday night.
0:40:02 > 0:40:09The outcome of this case has come as a huge shock to most observers, not
0:40:09 > 0:40:12least the British and Canadian governments who expected Bombardier
0:40:12 > 0:40:19to lose, but in the event the International Trade Commission ruled
0:40:19 > 0:40:24in Bombardier's favour, finding that by importing the C Series jets to
0:40:24 > 0:40:30the US would not cause any damage to Boeing's business. They will release
0:40:30 > 0:40:35a detailed reasoning in the next couple of months, and it's a
0:40:35 > 0:40:40reminder that despite President Trump's rhetoric of America first,
0:40:40 > 0:40:44there are independent structures to settle trade disputes and
0:40:44 > 0:40:46non-American companies can get a fair hearing.
0:40:46 > 0:40:48John Campbell there.
0:40:48 > 0:40:50Davy Thompson, this is clearly very good news for Bombardier,
0:40:50 > 0:40:54but what's your view of how this decision was secured?
0:40:54 > 0:41:04We believe we have led a campaign, both local politicians and West
0:41:04 > 0:41:09minister government, we have been to the States and Capitol Hill, we have
0:41:09 > 0:41:13been significant in what we have done and while it is welcome news it
0:41:13 > 0:41:18is tempered by the fact we have an ongoing redundancy system at shorts
0:41:18 > 0:41:23which will be realised in the next couple of weeks. From tomorrow
0:41:23 > 0:41:27morning our focus will be firmly on securing those jobs but also
0:41:27 > 0:41:32securing jobs we have heard in the last fortnight have been lost across
0:41:32 > 0:41:38the industry, we have Carillion, Tesco, Sainsbury's, that is the real
0:41:38 > 0:41:45debate to have.You are pleased with the ruled the unions have played but
0:41:45 > 0:41:50do you see a benefit from a corner that political approach? Did local
0:41:50 > 0:41:55politicians play the part that some of them were claiming on social
0:41:55 > 0:42:01media, did the government played a part?We believe both parties, Sinn
0:42:01 > 0:42:07Fein and the DUP did all they could, we don't think they were assisted
0:42:07 > 0:42:11ably and not by the British government and people who believe
0:42:11 > 0:42:16that two phone calls and to chat over a cup of coffee between Prime
0:42:16 > 0:42:21Minister and the president of America was good enough, we don't
0:42:21 > 0:42:28believe that.There is a possibility it could be appealed.We said on
0:42:28 > 0:42:35Friday night that we expect going to accept the decision and the US
0:42:35 > 0:42:38administration, it was a unanimous decision and we believe that is what
0:42:38 > 0:42:43they should do, respect the decision and let's get on with making
0:42:43 > 0:42:48aircraft and doing business around the world.Stephen Kelly, ice huge
0:42:48 > 0:42:54sigh of relief as far as Manufacturing NI is concerned?These
0:42:54 > 0:42:59are critical jobs to the economy, not just in Belfast but our supply
0:42:59 > 0:43:04chain which runs from the north-west to North Down and these islands.
0:43:04 > 0:43:10Bombardier is critical to the future of the Northern Ireland economy so
0:43:10 > 0:43:16to get such a positive result on Friday came as a great boost.What's
0:43:16 > 0:43:18your assessment of who was responsible for helping to save
0:43:18 > 0:43:26those jobs?They sate success has many fathers and this is one of
0:43:26 > 0:43:31those cases, everybody was working hard and in a coordinated way. I
0:43:31 > 0:43:36take the point that Davey has made that the UK Government could have
0:43:36 > 0:43:40done more, certainly the trade unions and others were very
0:43:40 > 0:43:45aggressive in terms of trying to make sure this was seen as a massive
0:43:45 > 0:43:50problem not just for Belfast but the UK, and we needed to make sure that
0:43:50 > 0:43:56was articulated to the American authorities.To complete that saying
0:43:56 > 0:44:01of years, it is failure is an orphan, success has many parents, so
0:44:01 > 0:44:09some people were hedging their bets, not sure how this one would go.I
0:44:09 > 0:44:12think the company, the UK authorities and Canadian authorities
0:44:12 > 0:44:16were all setting us up for failure, they all thought we would get a bad
0:44:16 > 0:44:21result but in the end we were all delighted that the result was so
0:44:21 > 0:44:31positive. The ITC isn't necessarily influenced by politics, it has its
0:44:31 > 0:44:35independence, to Democrats and two Republicans, and to see such a
0:44:35 > 0:44:39unanimous result shows that the weight of the argument won through
0:44:39 > 0:44:45and that has everyone's involvement. David Thomson has already made that
0:44:45 > 0:44:52point, it was a ruling 4-0 in favour of Bombardier but there is a
0:44:52 > 0:44:58possibility that could be appealed and we know that Boeing is hoping to
0:44:58 > 0:45:03review the detailed information when it is published.They are, so we
0:45:03 > 0:45:07aren't allowed of the woods yet but let's look at what Boeing has
0:45:07 > 0:45:12achieved for themselves. They have taken on a fight they shouldn't have
0:45:12 > 0:45:17taken on, they have lost this argument in the US, they have lost a
0:45:17 > 0:45:22massive military deal in terms of the Canadian government and damage
0:45:22 > 0:45:26their reputation across the world, so they should think long and hard
0:45:26 > 0:45:33about whether to proceed without appeal.Davey Thompson, the C Series
0:45:33 > 0:45:35has been bedevilled with difficulties since it was first
0:45:35 > 0:45:42mooted. Do you think that the deal between Bombardier and are bus now
0:45:42 > 0:45:47sets aside all those difficulties and we can look forward to a much
0:45:47 > 0:45:52smoother ride in future?I don't think it sets aside all the
0:45:52 > 0:46:00difficulties. This C Series will be an exceptional playing, by bringing
0:46:00 > 0:46:10in are bus, it brings another dimension. Airbus and Boeing work
0:46:10 > 0:46:16competing against the C Series so it opens up the markets. The decision
0:46:16 > 0:46:21has probably put off potential customers in the US for the last 18
0:46:21 > 0:46:25months, we had one deal through in terms of Delta, which is the one
0:46:25 > 0:46:33that was complained about. These decisions should be made before you
0:46:33 > 0:46:37have a case, because it has put people off from buying the aircraft
0:46:37 > 0:46:49and put people back for a year.Not such good news for Kilroot Power
0:46:49 > 0:46:57Station, 120 contract is look set to lose their jobs.It's devastating
0:46:57 > 0:47:03and in the Antrim area, we had JGI Gallaher and Michelin, we recently
0:47:03 > 0:47:11lost Caterpillar, and other threatened job losses and we can
0:47:11 > 0:47:15rhyme of job loss after job loss. Friday was good news but we now need
0:47:15 > 0:47:21to focus on how we develop the economy, and that needs to be
0:47:21 > 0:47:26underpinned by a manufacturing strategy, which incorporates every
0:47:26 > 0:47:32facet of what we have. We need to move forward with that quickly. We
0:47:32 > 0:47:38are in talks now at Stormont, if we don't underpinned those by real jobs
0:47:38 > 0:47:44and economic stimulus, the building will not stand. We have not put in
0:47:44 > 0:47:48that stimuli to bring in real jobs and future hope for young people and
0:47:48 > 0:47:55that's where we sit today.Stephen Kelly, is it by definition
0:47:55 > 0:48:02disastrous job losses for East Antrim?I've lost a job and I've had
0:48:02 > 0:48:08to make people redundant, it's not a pleasant experience, but this is a
0:48:08 > 0:48:13story that isn't necessarily all bad news, it certainly bad news for the
0:48:13 > 0:48:18individuals involved but the consumer has paid too much for
0:48:18 > 0:48:23electricity, this takes £15 million out of electricity markets. Davey
0:48:23 > 0:48:28and I were at the gates of Michelin, who had to close largely because
0:48:28 > 0:48:32they were too expensive, so it is important we sort these out for the
0:48:32 > 0:48:39future. The decision to close Kilroot isn't a position of the
0:48:39 > 0:48:46market for regulators, it is purely a decision for a yes. They can
0:48:46 > 0:48:49participate in the marketplace without that capacity agreement so
0:48:49 > 0:48:57the future isn't necessarily jeopardised, but it is a decision
0:48:57 > 0:49:00for AES Management and I encourage Davey and his colleagues to take
0:49:00 > 0:49:07that up with the company. Politicians have raised concerns
0:49:07 > 0:49:11about security of supply. You say it is good news because prices will
0:49:11 > 0:49:15come down but the politician say if we don't have security of supply, it
0:49:15 > 0:49:23is not good news.The market is changing to more of our model like
0:49:23 > 0:49:28across the water in GB. We used to have a big pot of money that was
0:49:28 > 0:49:33spread across all generators, now it is slightly smaller and only spread
0:49:33 > 0:49:39towards generators that are most efficient and offer the most savings
0:49:39 > 0:49:44for consumers. We have put a market out there that was bid is requested,
0:49:44 > 0:49:51those bids came in and they were specifically requested for what is
0:49:51 > 0:49:56called a single closed area in Northern Ireland, so we have enough
0:49:56 > 0:50:02power, those people employed, experts in the area in terms of SONI
0:50:02 > 0:50:05and the utility regular are confident and we are assured by
0:50:05 > 0:50:14that.Are you reassured by what Stephen Kelly has just said? Do you
0:50:14 > 0:50:17have reservations about security of supply?We have absolute
0:50:17 > 0:50:24reservations. Anybody who could invest in Northern Ireland now we'll
0:50:24 > 0:50:32be looking at whether we have stability of government? We don't.
0:50:32 > 0:50:37We have stood squarely and said energy prices are too high, there is
0:50:37 > 0:50:41no pressure on the manufacturing sector and the infrastructure and
0:50:41 > 0:50:46other stuff and we accept that, but we have to look at how the system
0:50:46 > 0:50:52was denationalised many years ago and what that generated in profit.
0:50:52 > 0:50:57You can only play the ball in front of you, you cannot go back and play
0:50:57 > 0:51:02a game that finished a long time ago. What do you make of Stephen
0:51:02 > 0:51:06Kelly saying that mission and closed because of the cost of electricity
0:51:06 > 0:51:10that now with this All-Ireland supply, jobs could be created in
0:51:10 > 0:51:18future?We could create jobs, we did stand outside Michelin, we have
0:51:18 > 0:51:25worked closely on 95% of stuff that we agree on but 270 people who
0:51:25 > 0:51:30thought they had a lifetime guaranteed of work, we know that
0:51:30 > 0:51:35Kilroot was due to close anyway so people were taking out mortgages
0:51:35 > 0:51:42based on that and there is a moral and social responsibility on AES who
0:51:42 > 0:51:48are pulling out without their three years notice and we will go into
0:51:48 > 0:51:52talks with AES about retaining the planned on their jobs but if that
0:51:52 > 0:51:56isn't possible, they have a responsibility to the people of
0:51:56 > 0:52:03Northern Ireland to step up.Is manufacturing sound enough in
0:52:03 > 0:52:08Northern Ireland to reassure those 270 people who will lose jobs in
0:52:08 > 0:52:11Kilroot and maybe Ballylumford that they will not be on the scrapheap
0:52:11 > 0:52:17forever?Absolutely, Davey referenced the issue of future
0:52:17 > 0:52:24investment. This new market is to encourage future investment in the
0:52:24 > 0:52:29energy sector, in a much more agile, flexible and efficient producing
0:52:29 > 0:52:36plant. What we had in the past, or up until now, is big and bulky
0:52:36 > 0:52:40generators that have to be used because they are running and we are
0:52:40 > 0:52:45all picking up the cost of that. This money is coming purely from
0:52:45 > 0:52:50consumers, and what we need to make sure is that as the electricity
0:52:50 > 0:52:55system changes, we give people the best price. Our manufacturing sector
0:52:55 > 0:53:00is growing, we have some difficult news stories at the moment, some
0:53:00 > 0:53:05great news on Friday and we hope future good news can happen but we
0:53:05 > 0:53:09need the Executive back to make sure they have a plan in place for that
0:53:09 > 0:53:14to happen.Gentlemen, good to hear your thoughts. Thank you.
0:53:14 > 0:53:21Let's turn to my guests of the day, Patricia MacBride and Alex Kane.
0:53:21 > 0:53:27It's good news and attention they not such good news. Let's talk about
0:53:27 > 0:53:34Bombardier. Did you see that coming? I don't think anyone saw it coming
0:53:34 > 0:53:37but if you look at Spotlight the other night and saw the weight of
0:53:37 > 0:53:42what was presented by the British government against what was
0:53:42 > 0:53:45presented by the Canadian government, you would hope they
0:53:45 > 0:53:48would be a positive outcome from that as well as work done by the
0:53:48 > 0:53:53unions.A lot of people claiming credit for pulling it out of the
0:53:53 > 0:54:01bag.There is more security now for people who work at Dunbar DA then on
0:54:01 > 0:54:04Friday morning and that is the positive thing to take out of it,
0:54:04 > 0:54:10rather than who is credited, but that contrast between that and what
0:54:10 > 0:54:14is happening at Kilroot and Ballylumford, we'd now potentially
0:54:14 > 0:54:21see job loss. The big issue around the electricity market is
0:54:21 > 0:54:25maintaining security and consistency of supply.Are you satisfied about
0:54:25 > 0:54:33that?Right now I am, given that the purpose of the regulator is to
0:54:33 > 0:54:38insure that is there, we have a system operator and a regulator and
0:54:38 > 0:54:43the regulator said the happy that the supply will be consistent and we
0:54:43 > 0:54:48are saving £175 million per year in terms of new deals that will be put
0:54:48 > 0:54:54in place and we should all see the benefit of that.Good news and bad
0:54:54 > 0:55:01news? It was good news for the DUP because if Bombardier didn't have
0:55:01 > 0:55:06come through, they would have Gavin Robinson and Sammy Wilson in DUP
0:55:06 > 0:55:13constituencies, being told this is big catastrophic news for Northern
0:55:13 > 0:55:17Ireland, but I was struck by what Davies said that it was local
0:55:17 > 0:55:22politicians who did all the lobbying for the deal to make sure Bombardier
0:55:22 > 0:55:28came back on board, but it shouldn't be asked, at this moment it should
0:55:28 > 0:55:36be either through direct rule or at local executive, because there is no
0:55:36 > 0:55:39manufacturing or economic strategy and there are more job losses coming
0:55:39 > 0:55:43down the line and these guys need to be able to talk to someone because
0:55:43 > 0:55:49at the moment they are all talking to each other and that is quite so
0:55:49 > 0:55:55many people claimed credit, because until Friday no one was taking any
0:55:55 > 0:56:00responsibility for it, they were all clearing their own tracks and saying
0:56:00 > 0:56:04it was there doing all the time. That is bad government.
0:56:04 > 0:56:05Thanks, both.
0:56:05 > 0:56:09Let's pause for a moment and take a look back at the week gone past
0:56:09 > 0:56:10in 60 seconds with Stephen Walker.
0:56:10 > 0:56:14The new look Sinn Fein leadership team - in all but name -
0:56:14 > 0:56:18arrived at Stormont for the latest talks.
0:56:18 > 0:56:20Michelle, smile.
0:56:20 > 0:56:25Gregory Campbell discovered there is a budget deadline.
0:56:25 > 0:56:32I'm zoning in particularly on the 7th of February.It will be
0:56:32 > 0:56:37difficult for us if we don't have a budget by the 8th of February.
0:56:37 > 0:56:42The SDLP claimed the two big parties made compromises last year.
0:56:42 > 0:56:46We should publish the progress that was made, published the compromises
0:56:46 > 0:56:50and stop trying to pretend to the public that nobody has compromised.
0:56:50 > 0:56:53The Fianna Fail leader Micheal Martin says his new position
0:56:53 > 0:56:57on abortion was clear.
0:56:57 > 0:57:02It is both pro-life and pro-choice in respects.Can you be both?
0:57:02 > 0:57:05And making an impression - Jan Ravens told us about getting
0:57:05 > 0:57:07to grips with Arlene and Michelle.
0:57:07 > 0:57:16Very much like that, Arlene has got that kind of...
0:57:16 > 0:57:18Stephen Walker on Jan Ravens' work in progress.
0:57:18 > 0:57:25Back to my guests for a final word.
0:57:25 > 0:57:30I want to talk about abortion in a moment, we heard Michael Martin
0:57:30 > 0:57:36talking on Thursday, but in Loughinisland, I challenge to the
0:57:36 > 0:57:39Police Ombudsman's ruling on the Loughinisland killings is to be
0:57:39 > 0:57:46heard before a judge. Or you surprised how that turned out?I
0:57:46 > 0:57:51don't think it was a surprise, once it was in the public domain that
0:57:51 > 0:57:56Justice McCloskey had represented some applicants in that previous
0:57:56 > 0:58:02review, he had to step aside.He said the legal test for him to set
0:58:02 > 0:58:09aside have not been met.But with the potential for bias, the law must
0:58:09 > 0:58:14be seen to apply evenly but this means the families have to go back
0:58:14 > 0:58:19to court and face another set of hearings to get to the next stage in
0:58:19 > 0:58:25uncovering the truth, that is not the way to deal with the past, we
0:58:25 > 0:58:29need a cohesive strategy that addresses the needs of all victims
0:58:29 > 0:58:35and we are failing in delivering that.Patricia is right, I wasn't
0:58:35 > 0:58:39entirely persuaded by his argument for not staying with the case
0:58:39 > 0:58:45because I don't buy this notion that anyone will not have unconscious
0:58:45 > 0:58:50bias, these guys have been around for 40 years and will have dealt
0:58:50 > 0:58:54with all sorts of cases, but I think most of them can set it aside and
0:58:54 > 0:59:00move on but if you're talking about helping not just these families at
0:59:00 > 0:59:06all the other cases because each of these issues has been dealt with
0:59:06 > 0:59:09separately, bringing up emotional cousins and we need some system
0:59:09 > 0:59:14which puts it all together and says let's deal with it as a whole
0:59:14 > 0:59:21because it is a troubled society, not just individual families.And
0:59:21 > 0:59:24Patricia speaks as Victims' Commissioner so you have an
0:59:24 > 0:59:33interest, and I also to talk about abortion, and that very interesting
0:59:33 > 0:59:39comment by Micheal Martin that you can be pro-life and pro-choice at
0:59:39 > 0:59:45the same time, carving out an interesting space.It is, and it
0:59:45 > 0:59:50added by dynamic to the debate about repealing the 8th Amendment and
0:59:50 > 0:59:55hopefully added to the debate about reproductive rights in the North.
0:59:55 > 1:00:00This is about ensuring that people who need a termination because of a
1:00:00 > 1:00:06crisis pregnancy have the ability to access abortion where necessary, so
1:00:06 > 1:00:14for Micheal Martin to do that is quite courageous.For pragmatic?I
1:00:14 > 1:00:19think courageous because he has come from a background perceived as being
1:00:19 > 1:00:23pro-life for a long period and for him to step out of that and say I
1:00:23 > 1:00:28have to accept there are women who will face crisis pregnancies and it
1:00:28 > 1:00:32is up to meet to provide protection under the law to deal with those in
1:00:32 > 1:00:39the way they choose to.Can you be pro-life and pro-choice?I'm not
1:00:39 > 1:00:44sure you can be, because I have spoken to people in the pro-life
1:00:44 > 1:00:49body who say there are no circumstances whatsoever that they
1:00:49 > 1:00:53could justify an abortion. I don't know how you could say I am pro-life
1:00:53 > 1:01:02and pro-choice, maybe I suspect it's more an electoral device, he is
1:01:02 > 1:01:09trying to cover a number of bases. That is the charge of his critics.
1:01:09 > 1:01:14In the next few weeks people will say, Micheal, how can you be both of
1:01:14 > 1:01:20these?The marriage equality referendum answered that, you can
1:01:20 > 1:01:26allow other people to access rights you cannot access yourself.But as
1:01:26 > 1:01:31pro-life you say it is OK to take life in some circumstances but I do
1:01:31 > 1:01:36not see how you can be both. We will hear more
1:01:36 > 1:01:37McDonagh and Paul Scully.
1:01:37 > 1:01:39And with that it's back to Sarah.
1:01:45 > 1:01:50Welcome back. There have been plenty of stories this week about Tory
1:01:50 > 1:01:54Brexit angst. What about the Labour Party? Reports suggest Jeremy Corbyn
1:01:54 > 1:02:00is planning a big awayday to thrash out Brexit policy.
1:02:00 > 1:02:08Healy was on Andrew Marr this morning.The problem with the
1:02:08 > 1:02:10undermining of workers' rights and conditions has been a serious one.
1:02:10 > 1:02:16What we are saying is there would be enforcement of the agency agenda
1:02:16 > 1:02:21that the EU has put forward, preventing wholescale groups of
1:02:21 > 1:02:23workers brought in to undercut and undermined. There has to be a
1:02:23 > 1:02:28regulated environment.If you get that, then you could have easy
1:02:28 > 1:02:36movement?We did. We have a recruitment crisis in the NHS now,
1:02:36 > 1:02:38particularly many nurses from Poland and other countries who have
1:02:38 > 1:02:44traditionally gone to work in this country.We are making progress. You
1:02:44 > 1:02:50have agreed to ease of movement... Our expert panel are still here to
1:02:50 > 1:02:54talk about the Labour approach to Brexit and some of the other issues.
1:02:54 > 1:02:58That was Jeremy Corbyn being questioned on the Labour approach to
1:02:58 > 1:03:03free movement of people. When they go on their big awayday this week,
1:03:03 > 1:03:07will we get clarity on the fundamental issues? Do Labour want
1:03:07 > 1:03:11us to stay in the single market and the Customs Union?The key thing to
1:03:11 > 1:03:15understand about the Labour position on Brexit is there a competing
1:03:15 > 1:03:20constituencies the Labour membership as to pay attention to. You have a
1:03:20 > 1:03:25liberal, younger, pro-remain people, ardent supporters of Jeremy Corbyn
1:03:25 > 1:03:30but also passionate against Brexit. They see it as a Ukip culture war
1:03:30 > 1:03:33thing they hate. You have a lot of people living in constituencies who
1:03:33 > 1:03:39have voted Labour who are a little bit Ukip in some of their cultured
1:03:39 > 1:03:45views of the project. They are ardently pro-Brexit. You have an
1:03:45 > 1:03:47ideological left faction, represented in the Labour leader's
1:03:47 > 1:03:53who think the EU is a capitalist thing and we would be better off out
1:03:53 > 1:03:56of it. It is technically hard for the Labour leader to reconcile those
1:03:56 > 1:04:01views. On the Customs Union and the single market, the Labour problem is
1:04:01 > 1:04:09the same as the government problem. Anybody understands that the UK's
1:04:09 > 1:04:12interests are served by being in essentially the single market and
1:04:12 > 1:04:16the Customs Union, but also it happens to be a fact that the UK has
1:04:16 > 1:04:20voted to leave the European Union. If you stay on the Customs Union and
1:04:20 > 1:04:23the single market, the Norwegian model, a lot of people will feel
1:04:23 > 1:04:30that is not enough Brexit. They simply don't have answers to these
1:04:30 > 1:04:33questions. They recognise what economic reality is telling them to
1:04:33 > 1:04:37do and they haven't found a way of expressing that economic reality to
1:04:37 > 1:04:43the 52% of people devoted to leave. Then you enter up with the kind of
1:04:43 > 1:04:47conversation Jeremy Corbyn was having with Andrew Marr. The policy
1:04:47 > 1:04:50becomes a little bit confused as to whether they are in favour of free
1:04:50 > 1:04:54movement, easy movement. Free movement is not a phrase he wants to
1:04:54 > 1:04:58use. He doesn't want to close the barriers. It all looks a bit
1:04:58 > 1:05:02confused?Nobody has ever suggested ending free movement means ending
1:05:02 > 1:05:08immigration completely. One of the main tranches of the Brexit argument
1:05:08 > 1:05:14was to make it fairer for non-EU immigrants to come to the country.
1:05:14 > 1:05:17Currently working occupational shortage lists are used to get
1:05:17 > 1:05:22people to come in. If we need more doctors, choreographers, dancers,
1:05:22 > 1:05:25then we should put them at the top of the tree and say, these are the
1:05:25 > 1:05:31people who want to come in. Equally, we need seasonal workers. There is
1:05:31 > 1:05:34an itinerant against uncontrolled immigration. That is what the EU
1:05:34 > 1:05:38immigration system is perceived to be. And controlled immigration. It
1:05:38 > 1:05:42has inevitably led to complaints on the Remain side of things that we
1:05:42 > 1:05:46will suddenly have no doctors and nurses. There was a row about that
1:05:46 > 1:05:51recently. The latest ONS figures suggest there has been a 5.4% rise
1:05:51 > 1:05:57in EU doctors and nurses coming into Britain. We will see. To be fair to
1:05:57 > 1:05:59Jeremy Corbyn Knipe body gave a pretty good account of himself today
1:05:59 > 1:06:06and answered questions in a fairly straight way. He did a better job of
1:06:06 > 1:06:09explaining Labour's Brexit position than Kier Starmer has been doing for
1:06:09 > 1:06:16weeks.It has been difficult for a Labour spokespeople to outline the
1:06:16 > 1:06:21policy on Brexit. There doesn't appear to be a clear policy. Do you
1:06:21 > 1:06:24think they are moving to a position where they will have a much more
1:06:24 > 1:06:33defined approach to what they want? First of all, I think Rafael's
1:06:33 > 1:06:35description was a bit of a mischaracterisation. The Labour
1:06:35 > 1:06:43position now is we're Remainers that accept a democratic vote has taken
1:06:43 > 1:06:46place and we need to exit the EU because that was the result. We need
1:06:46 > 1:06:50to do that in a way that keeps business and jobs and the economy
1:06:50 > 1:06:55vibrant. In a way that the Conservatives showed no particular
1:06:55 > 1:07:00sign of caring about. It is not that they think the EU is a dastardly
1:07:00 > 1:07:04project, it is more like, this is what people voted for, how do we do
1:07:04 > 1:07:12it? There is no point in the Labour Party at running the government on
1:07:12 > 1:07:17Brexit. There is no point in the Labour Party saying, this is exactly
1:07:17 > 1:07:19what we would do, when the government is the one in the driving
1:07:19 > 1:07:23seat. They are controlling the negotiations, they get to decide
1:07:23 > 1:07:28what is going on. What Labour can do in this reality is challenge the
1:07:28 > 1:07:31government when they think they are wrong, as they have done in fact
1:07:31 > 1:07:37since the negotiations began. We have got a transition period. We
1:07:37 > 1:07:41have got various things. We have got a parliamentary vote at the end of
1:07:41 > 1:07:48Brexit. That is because of Labour putting pressure on government. You
1:07:48 > 1:07:56can take credit. You can put it where you want to. We're having a
1:07:56 > 1:08:00discussion about what the Labour Party position on Brexit is. I am
1:08:00 > 1:08:03saying, where is the wisdom of Labour overrunning the government,
1:08:03 > 1:08:08which is controlling negotiations? The other thing that is important to
1:08:08 > 1:08:14says the party position is very responsive and it is changing. As I
1:08:14 > 1:08:17understand that they are very responsive to all the polling on
1:08:17 > 1:08:24positions around a referendum.How unusual for the Labour Party to
1:08:24 > 1:08:29respond to public opinion.But that's just democratic, isn't it,
1:08:29 > 1:08:36Rafael? They are responsive to the conversations they are having with
1:08:36 > 1:08:41their EU sister parties in Europe. They are listening to all these
1:08:41 > 1:08:46things. And calibrating as things go on.Donald Trump had some advice as
1:08:46 > 1:08:52to how we should approach the EU negotiations. Aimed at the Prime
1:08:52 > 1:08:54Minister not Jeremy Corbyn. This is how he said he would approach
1:08:54 > 1:08:58negotiations. Would it be the way I would
1:08:58 > 1:09:05negotiate? No. I have a lot of respect for your Prime Minister. I
1:09:05 > 1:09:08think they are doing a job. I think I would've negotiated it
1:09:08 > 1:09:12differently. I would have had a different attitude.What would you
1:09:12 > 1:09:18have done?I would have said the European Union is not cracked up to
1:09:18 > 1:09:21what it is supposed to be and I would have taken a tougher stand in
1:09:21 > 1:09:25getting out.A few in the Conservative Party would probably
1:09:25 > 1:09:30agree with Donald Trump. Is that helpful to the Prime Minister?
1:09:30 > 1:09:33Coming after what was a helpful week from Donald Trump in terms of
1:09:33 > 1:09:36relations with the Prime Minister, his love of Britain and his promise
1:09:36 > 1:09:41of tremendous trade in Davos, perhaps it is a bit of a slide.
1:09:41 > 1:09:44Actually this morning we heard Piers Morgan described Donald Trump, his
1:09:44 > 1:09:50close friend, as a ball china shop. That would be his approach to
1:09:50 > 1:09:54negotiations. Perhaps David Cameron should have taken more a bit Donald
1:09:54 > 1:09:58Trump approach when he tried to reform the EU from the inside, which
1:09:58 > 1:10:02in the end his failure to do so led to the referendum we are now
1:10:02 > 1:10:05debating.There are lots in the Conservative Party, lots of
1:10:05 > 1:10:09backbench Brexiteers, who think that is what has gone wrong, that the
1:10:09 > 1:10:12government has made too many concessions to the EU, hasn't been
1:10:12 > 1:10:20hard enough in the divorce period. Yes, a lot of those people are not
1:10:20 > 1:10:25in government and have not got a practical -- practical reality of
1:10:25 > 1:10:28what is required to take the UK out of European Union. Everything Donald
1:10:28 > 1:10:32Trump is said about international policy, particularly with regard to
1:10:32 > 1:10:34Europe and the European Union, demonstrated as not have a great
1:10:34 > 1:10:39understanding of what the EU is as a project or an institution. If I was
1:10:39 > 1:10:42a Tory Brexiteer I would be a bit concerned about Donald Trump been
1:10:42 > 1:10:47very enthusiastic about the project, because for a lot of liberal minded,
1:10:47 > 1:10:50moderate people in the broad mainstream of public life and
1:10:50 > 1:10:54politics, Donald Trump is absolutely toxic. The idea that Brexit is a
1:10:54 > 1:11:01sibling project -- project is damaging. Theresa May will want to
1:11:01 > 1:11:05make it distinct from what Donald Trump is doing.One other
1:11:05 > 1:11:09intervention today is Grant Schapps has been out in the papers. He has
1:11:09 > 1:11:12said it is becoming increasingly clear we cannot continue to muddle
1:11:12 > 1:11:19along like this. Mrs May should name a date. By that he means a date by
1:11:19 > 1:11:22which she will exit Number 10 and stopping Prime Minister. He wants a
1:11:22 > 1:11:25timetable. He says if that doesn't happen there may be a revolt.
1:11:25 > 1:11:31Rachel, it is not what she needs, is it?Is not what she needs. It is
1:11:31 > 1:11:35maybe what the country needs. She has been put on notice. She has been
1:11:35 > 1:11:40told of things don't improve by May, which is when there are local
1:11:40 > 1:11:43elections, including in major cities, if the Conservative Party do
1:11:43 > 1:11:48as badly in those as they are expected to, and predicted two, then
1:11:48 > 1:11:55there may be more moves to get rid of her. It is not surprising, is it?
1:11:55 > 1:12:00The situation is completely untenable. We can't model along like
1:12:00 > 1:12:06this, having a Prime Minister or can't lead.Graham Bailey, the chair
1:12:06 > 1:12:13of the 19 -- 1922 committee, said he keeps getting letters from backbench
1:12:13 > 1:12:19MPs who want to trigger a leadership contest -- contest. They say it is
1:12:19 > 1:12:23getting nearly 40 mark. That sounds like they are warning MPs, please
1:12:23 > 1:12:26don't send in any more letters because you may trigger a leadership
1:12:26 > 1:12:30contest. Is that a real threat?I think the notion of Graham Brady
1:12:30 > 1:12:36being ashen faced is probably quite true. There are a lot of stories
1:12:36 > 1:12:39today saying that eight of the new intake are prepared to give letters
1:12:39 > 1:12:45in. Some of the old schools. Problems among Remainers and
1:12:45 > 1:12:51Brexiteers. After recent may need to do is take hold of the situation. --
1:12:51 > 1:12:57what to May needs to do is take hold of the situation. She needs a third
1:12:57 > 1:13:01keynote speech on Brexit to take control, to silence the critics.
1:13:01 > 1:13:06Boris Johnson is due to give his own landmark speech on a so-called
1:13:06 > 1:13:09liberal Brexit, which I'm sure Rachel will be looking forward to
1:13:09 > 1:13:13hearing. Perhaps Theresa May should seize the moment, take control and
1:13:13 > 1:13:18put her own new stamp, so people are not just mentioning Lancaster House
1:13:18 > 1:13:23and Florence but a Newsbeat.A big danger for Theresa May is not
1:13:23 > 1:13:28Brexit. There are a lot of Tory MPs who think Brexit is taking care of
1:13:28 > 1:13:29itself. They are worried about the NHS. We
1:13:29 > 1:13:31have to leave it there.
1:13:31 > 1:13:32That's all for today.
1:13:32 > 1:13:34Join me again next Sunday at 11am here on BBC One.
1:13:34 > 1:13:41Until then, bye bye.