:01:21. > :01:23.Northern Ireland: The Finance Minister, Sammy Wilson, on what he
:01:23. > :01:33.sees as a new confidence in the economy.
:01:33. > :01:33.
:01:33. > :39:48.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2295 seconds
:39:48. > :39:53.Plus the challenge ahead for local Northern Ireland. Could Northern
:39:53. > :39:57.Ireland become the UK's economic Merkel? The First Minister thinks so
:39:57. > :40:00.and has used the Spring Conference and Enniskillen to hammer home how
:40:00. > :40:07.the devolution of corporation tax would transform economic fortunes.
:40:07. > :40:11.With unemployment at a 15 year high and per economic growth, we asked
:40:11. > :40:16.the Finance Minister Sammy Wilson what more can be done to boost the
:40:16. > :40:21.economy? And power to the people, as the plan to make 26 councils until
:40:21. > :40:25.11 takes a step forward, what do councillors make of the new
:40:25. > :40:30.responsibilities? Joining me to look at the political developments are
:40:30. > :40:38.Gerry Morriarty, Northern Editor of the Irish Times and Sam McBride
:40:38. > :40:44.political correspondent of the News Letter. Are you glass half empty
:40:44. > :40:48.glass half full? We may have narrowly missed a triple dip
:40:48. > :40:52.recession in the economy but are there any green shoots? The latest
:40:52. > :40:57.economic figures show there has been growth over the last year, albeit
:40:57. > :41:07.though it is low, but is the economy on the turn? The Finance Minister
:41:07. > :41:07.
:41:07. > :41:10.Sammy Wilson is with me. Are you optimistic? It is always important
:41:10. > :41:16.to be optimistic because I recognise that if people do not have
:41:16. > :41:21.confidence, even if the economy is doing relatively well, of course
:41:21. > :41:29.they will be reluctant to spend and to invest. People will be fearful of
:41:29. > :41:35.their jobs. Why you -- while you cannot ignore economic facts, if you
:41:35. > :41:38.on top of pool economic performance, took the economy down, it will
:41:38. > :41:45.discourage people from doing the kind of things that we need to pull
:41:45. > :41:51.us out of the recession. You have a difficult job. While you do not want
:41:51. > :41:57.to talk the economy down, it is difficult to read. Economic growth
:41:57. > :42:03.was not point 3% for 20 12. The construction sector is struggling at
:42:03. > :42:08.the moment. You cannot wish those factors away. Let me put the other
:42:08. > :42:14.facts to you. Normally Northern Ireland with the right at the bottom
:42:14. > :42:22.in terms of employment and other economic factors. We are not. Over
:42:22. > :42:30.the last year, the figures show we have grown by 0.4% and there are
:42:30. > :42:35.already signs in the construction industry of an upturn in --. Arlene
:42:35. > :42:38.Foster is announcing new investment in Northern Ireland. Last week over
:42:38. > :42:46.140 new jobs from firms within Northern Ireland and outside the
:42:47. > :42:50.country, at a high tech level and lower levels of income, there are
:42:50. > :43:00.other things where we are the second most attractive region outside
:43:00. > :43:04.London. I would say that yes, of course, not all of the economic
:43:04. > :43:10.indicators are showing a bright future. But they are not showing a
:43:10. > :43:15.black future that people are trying to present. Are those the green
:43:15. > :43:21.shoots of recovery? I think they are. The economy is slowly turning
:43:21. > :43:24.around, obviously not as fast as we need. In terms of employment, over
:43:24. > :43:31.the last year, the number of jobs are available in Northern Ireland
:43:31. > :43:38.has gone up I nearly 2000 in the middle of a recession. -- gone up by
:43:38. > :43:42.nearly. The Federation of Master builders has said that construction
:43:42. > :43:51.firms in Northern Ireland are showing more optimism. We are
:43:51. > :43:58.increasing exports. We are looking for new markets. All of those things
:43:58. > :44:02.show that we are not the difficult case that people are trying to
:44:02. > :44:08.portray, and there are reasons to be confident. What about corporation
:44:08. > :44:11.tax? Your party leader at the Spring Conference last night said the
:44:11. > :44:20.reduction of corporation tax for Northern Ireland could be a game
:44:20. > :44:29.changer. Is that how you see it? want to see corporation tax default.
:44:29. > :44:35.-- we want to see the devolution -- the devolution of corporation tax.
:44:35. > :44:39.How much longer can we wait Minister? It must be one of the
:44:39. > :44:44.elements that we look at. But the Prime Minister has made it clear
:44:44. > :44:49.there will be no decision until September 2014. Maybe it will come
:44:49. > :44:56.after that. We have been waiting a long time. Peter Robinson said last
:44:56. > :44:59.night there should be no plan B. are disappointed. This was a
:44:59. > :45:03.Conservative commitment and started off of the Conservative Party saying
:45:03. > :45:06.that you want to see the economy in Northern Ireland being restructured.
:45:06. > :45:12.This is a means by which we could see this happening and then they
:45:12. > :45:18.walk away from it! Politically I think they are wrong and I think
:45:18. > :45:26.they have given Alex Salmond a very important lever to hit them over the
:45:26. > :45:31.head with. But we will continue to press for it. In the meantime the
:45:31. > :45:36.first and deputy worst minister will be looking at an economic pact with
:45:36. > :45:46.the government at Westminster and there are some ideas there. --
:45:46. > :45:46.
:45:46. > :45:51.Deputy First Minister. Out the DUP and other parties handled the flag
:45:52. > :45:56.disputed did not help grow the economy in Northern Ireland, did it?
:45:56. > :46:01.We have been prepared to take some leadership over this and tell people
:46:01. > :46:06.it was wrong and damaging the economy. Hopefully with a lot of the
:46:06. > :46:10.work that has gone on behind-the-scenes, the problem has
:46:10. > :46:14.gone away, despite attempts by many people to reinvigorate the issue.
:46:14. > :46:18.There are many issues like that that are going to be damaging to the
:46:18. > :46:22.economy, but those who want Northern Ireland to succeed, including many
:46:22. > :46:25.of those who were in gates to the protest, they should realise it is
:46:25. > :46:30.not in their interests to hurt the economy of Northern Ireland, because
:46:30. > :46:39.they, like me, want Northern Ireland to be a place which is attractive
:46:39. > :46:45.and workable. I am interested in one line of Peter Robinson's speech. I
:46:45. > :46:53.want Northern Ireland to become known as the UK's economic Merkel.
:46:53. > :47:01.Did you write that line for him? He does not need me to write his lines
:47:01. > :47:06.for him, but we did speak about the speech. At times, and even coming up
:47:06. > :47:11.to the current recession, Northern Ireland was performing better than
:47:11. > :47:20.any other region of the United Kingdom. We were catching up in
:47:20. > :47:29.terms of the UK average GDP. There is still a lot of talk about the
:47:29. > :47:34.economic check back -- the economic package from the Theresa Villiers.
:47:34. > :47:37.First of all, there are two elements. The first element is that
:47:37. > :47:41.the suggestions which come forward from the Executive and we are
:47:41. > :47:47.working on that, and secondly, a commitment from the Westminster
:47:47. > :47:52.government. Our argument is this. We want to make the Northern Ireland
:47:52. > :47:55.economy less pendent upon the Exchequer. There are things which
:47:55. > :48:00.need to be done, and things which can only be done by central
:48:00. > :48:06.government. We will not run away from our own responsibilities. We
:48:06. > :48:11.must work on this collaboratively. You are confident this will find its
:48:11. > :48:16.way onto the table? The other issue you were going to mention, is
:48:16. > :48:19.whether it is linked to cohesion sharing and integration? Peter
:48:19. > :48:25.Robinson said you do not need a document for that, but you need to
:48:25. > :48:35.deliver on the ground. Really the only people who want a document
:48:35. > :48:42.which is meaningless to the general public are the anoraks! Would it
:48:42. > :48:48.be? Of course it would. People causing the problems in Northern
:48:48. > :48:52.Ireland will not read a shiny document from the Executive.
:48:52. > :48:57.envoy do you bother spending money and strategies? Because it
:48:58. > :49:01.influences policies, that is why! The point that I was making is if
:49:01. > :49:05.you want to have people feel that they have a connection to Northern
:49:06. > :49:12.Ireland, you have an economic policy which gives them a job and enables
:49:12. > :49:18.them to have a house, and have responsibilities. Those who must
:49:18. > :49:27.work tomorrow those who can work, must work. Give me a clear answer to
:49:27. > :49:31.this. Would there be a CSI document published by the Executive? I am
:49:31. > :49:35.sure there will be eventually. I would not hold too much hope that a
:49:35. > :49:41.document like that will radically change the situation on the ground.
:49:41. > :49:49.What I believe is that the situation on the ground will change when real
:49:49. > :49:52.practical things happen and people have a stake in society. We must put
:49:52. > :50:02.in place policies which enable people to feel part of Northern
:50:02. > :50:02.
:50:02. > :50:11.Ireland. Thank you. Let us hear from Sam McBride and Gerry Morriarty.
:50:11. > :50:16.Cannot help asking you for your response to the Minister's comments
:50:16. > :50:23.and the aspect and cohesion sharing and integration? I thought the
:50:23. > :50:26.Secretary of State made a point that she is addressing sectarianism and
:50:26. > :50:32.Division two an economic plan. How foreign she prepared to push it?
:50:32. > :50:37.While you need an economic plan, you also need a social plan that people
:50:37. > :50:41.can work on. I take the Minister's point that it is what is happening
:50:41. > :50:47.in society that is important, but you need something concrete there.
:50:47. > :50:50.That is the basis for how we will tackle this problem. Sam McBride, do
:50:50. > :50:59.you get a sense talking to politicians that there is an
:51:00. > :51:03.appetite for this? Quite recently it was Peter Robinson who was pushing
:51:03. > :51:07.for the strategy to be published and it seems to be Sinn Fein who are
:51:07. > :51:13.blocking it. In some ways, I suppose what Sammy Wilson is saying is that
:51:13. > :51:17.this will not be published for while. If that is not such a big
:51:17. > :51:23.thing, actions are more portent than strategies. The parties cannot agree
:51:23. > :51:29.on that. What about the issue of corporation tax? It has not gone
:51:29. > :51:32.away, you know? A lot of people who are not doing business are not
:51:32. > :51:38.affected by this and are probably quite weary of this. We seem to be
:51:38. > :51:42.going round in circles. Every time the economy is mentioned,
:51:42. > :51:45.politicians push this idea of corporation tax. If it happens, it
:51:45. > :51:49.will be a considerable -- considerable period down the line
:51:49. > :51:55.and we need to look at other areas where politicians can help the
:51:55. > :52:02.economy. It corporation tax .com, it is not going to drag us out of
:52:02. > :52:07.recession because it is in the future. Gerry Morriarty, do you buy
:52:07. > :52:11.into the notion of optimism as far as the economy is concerned? We do
:52:11. > :52:15.not know whether the green shoots are there. There seem to be
:52:16. > :52:22.indications North and South of the border, and across the water, that
:52:22. > :52:28.things are happening. My colleagues who write and talk about economics
:52:28. > :52:31.here, are correct when they say it could be a game changer. Next year
:52:31. > :52:37.is not that far away. I think the ministers should keep the pressure
:52:37. > :52:41.on, but whether it will help not, I do not know. The last time you sat
:52:41. > :52:47.in that chair, you were at best lukewarm to changes to corporation
:52:47. > :52:53.tax. Have you been warmed up a little? My position on this is no
:52:53. > :52:57.different than the position of Peter Robinson. It is a big risk. It will
:52:58. > :53:02.require us to pay money upfront and it will hopefully lead to the kind
:53:02. > :53:08.of traction from new investment that we have seen another parts the
:53:08. > :53:12.world. It Robinson recognises it as a risk as well. If we need a lever
:53:12. > :53:19.which will see work elsewhere, this is one of the leverage that we
:53:19. > :53:24.want. We must push for it. Thank you. It has been a long time coming,
:53:24. > :53:27.but the full extent of the changes in local councils were confirmed by
:53:27. > :53:32.the environment Minister Alex Attwood to the Assembly on Tuesday.
:53:33. > :53:37.In April 2015 the number of councils will be reduced to 11. In a few
:53:37. > :53:40.minutes we will hear from councillors affected by the changes
:53:40. > :53:46.but our correspondent brings us up to date on the Review of Public
:53:46. > :53:50.Administration. Politics in Northern Ireland has
:53:50. > :53:56.been transformed in recent years. So much has changed but one thing has
:53:56. > :54:01.been left unchanged - local councils. There has been numerous
:54:01. > :54:05.delays at councils are facing a big shake-up. There will be 11 instead
:54:05. > :54:09.of 26 and if everything goes according to plan in the next few
:54:09. > :54:14.years, here in Belfast and elsewhere, things may never quite be
:54:14. > :54:20.the same again. This is how the new local government map will look.
:54:20. > :54:24.There will be smaller local councils gripped together. It is a major
:54:24. > :54:31.overhaul. The new councils will be bigger and more powerful. The
:54:31. > :54:37.Minister in charge says it will happen very soon. There are 700 days
:54:37. > :54:41.to grasp an opportunity for change. I would urge all of those with
:54:41. > :54:44.influence and all of those involved to ensure we maximise the
:54:44. > :54:51.opportunity. This is a once in a political lifetime opportunity to
:54:51. > :54:57.get this done and get it done right and on time. The deadline is April
:54:57. > :55:03.2015. The list of new powers for the councils include banning, housing,
:55:03. > :55:07.urban regeneration and local tourism. The extra powers mean that
:55:07. > :55:14.members of the new councils will face new challenges. They will also
:55:14. > :55:17.face a very old challenge - which flags to fly outside the new council
:55:17. > :55:23.buildings Western Mark I am joined by Sinn Fein Magherafelt councillor
:55:23. > :55:32.Sean McPeake and Mark Cosgrove, and Ulster Unionist councillor in
:55:32. > :55:34.Newtownabbey. You are also the president of the Northern Ireland
:55:34. > :55:38.Local Government Association which welcomed the money made available by
:55:38. > :55:45.the Minister to push the change through? Do you think there is
:55:45. > :55:51.enough money available and make it efficiently and on time? There will
:55:51. > :55:56.never be enough, but we have to be realistic! The announcement in
:55:56. > :56:01.January from the Executive for 48 million was a welcome step, no doubt
:56:01. > :56:07.about it. The whole finance issue had clouded the process to date and
:56:07. > :56:13.in some ways, still affects the momentum going forward. It creates
:56:13. > :56:19.uncertainty. We have to look back and be realistic stop the 4 billion
:56:19. > :56:24.cut to the Conservative budget was a major factor. If it has to be paid
:56:24. > :56:28.for, it will either have to come from local ratepayers through the
:56:28. > :56:32.councils, or there will have to be cuts to important sectors like
:56:32. > :56:41.education. We have to look at the root causes of not having enough
:56:41. > :56:44.money to move forward. We do believe that Alex Attwood is talking the
:56:44. > :56:49.right language in saying local government has to be invented in
:56:49. > :56:59.bridging that gap. Mark Cosgrove are you happy with the money and the new
:56:59. > :57:00.
:57:00. > :57:06.responsibilities that will be given to the 11 new councils? No, I think
:57:06. > :57:10.is the answer to both of those questions. The last report indicated
:57:10. > :57:16.that local government reform would cost �118 million, and while there
:57:16. > :57:24.has been a �40 million agreed by the Executive, that leaves a shortfall.
:57:24. > :57:28.It is nearly 50 million. It leaves shortfall. It is very difficult to
:57:28. > :57:36.go to -- door-to-door and talk about efficiency, you might have to ask
:57:36. > :57:42.people for more money. The business case put forward, namely �118
:57:42. > :57:46.million up front, and an overall saving over five years of over 400
:57:46. > :57:54.million, indicates some saving. I would note like to have to go to the
:57:54. > :57:57.bank manager in the current economic climate and make that argument. The
:57:57. > :58:00.two major things that were meant to be devolved to the two major things
:58:00. > :58:04.that were meant to be devolved when we first talked about this were
:58:04. > :58:08.planning and local roads. We now have planning devolved and local
:58:08. > :58:14.roads still has not been devolved. The events of the last month show
:58:14. > :58:16.that clearly, while Roads Service and their staff do a fantastic job
:58:16. > :58:25.on main arterial roads, having something like that close to the
:58:25. > :58:31.people, could deliver very serious improvements to the service.
:58:31. > :58:37.course the Minister says there will be a review of powers in April 2016.
:58:37. > :58:42.Perhaps that could be extended? Some people, Sean McPeake, are concerned
:58:42. > :58:44.about the extent to which new councils will be given
:58:44. > :58:53.responsibility in areas like urban regeneration and neighbourhood
:58:53. > :58:57.renewal? That is an awful lot of responsibility for a group of
:58:57. > :59:04.individuals who have not had that level of responsibility in the
:59:04. > :59:10.past? Do you accept that? I do accept that. Are councillors going
:59:10. > :59:14.to be up to that? There will have to be capacity issues and there will
:59:14. > :59:23.have to be money set aside for the new set of councillors to skill
:59:23. > :59:26.themselves up. They will have to step up to the plate? They will.
:59:26. > :59:34.Councillors have been mere consul tees at this time in dealing with
:59:34. > :59:39.planning issues. They will be the decision-makers, 2015. They will
:59:39. > :59:44.need to know what they can and cannot do. As well as stepping up to
:59:44. > :59:47.the plate as far as those responsible of these are concerned,
:59:48. > :59:52.they will not have to get bogged down in other issues, for example,
:59:52. > :59:57.such as the flag dispute? First of all they will have to talk about
:59:58. > :00:05.what flag will fly over the new 11 headquarters? That is the last thing
:00:05. > :00:09.anyone needs. About the capacity of local government, let us be honest,
:00:10. > :00:15.many counsellors provided the only democracy in this part of the United
:00:15. > :00:18.Kingdom from the early 1970s until recently. I have no doubt about the
:00:18. > :00:24.ability and capacity and that is why I think more things should have been
:00:24. > :00:31.devolved. Our local government is a diminished vehicle compared to the
:00:31. > :00:40.rest of the United Kingdom. Thank you both. Time for a look back at
:00:40. > :00:45.the political week in 60 seconds with Martina Purdy. Children's heart
:00:45. > :00:50.surgery looks likely to move out of Elf asked to Dublin following a
:00:50. > :00:57.health report. Parents are periods. They are going to shut down
:00:57. > :01:05.children's surgery from the Royal Victoria Hospital. -- parents are
:01:06. > :01:13.furious. The First Minister and Deputy First Minister had a day out
:01:13. > :01:22.and MLAs were confessing they are weaknesses about smoking. I plan
:01:22. > :01:27.meetings around cigarettes. Same-sex marriage brought harmony. The reason
:01:27. > :01:34.that we have marriage in society is because it has a special place and
:01:34. > :01:43.it is about the nature and rearing of children. How do modern MLAs
:01:43. > :01:51.compared to the predecessors? are dull.
:01:51. > :01:59.That was Martina Birdie reporting. Final thought from my guests, some
:01:59. > :02:05.muck right and Gerry Moriarty. Peter Robinson is speech was strong?
:02:05. > :02:11.dealt with a lot of issues. He and the Deputy First Minister are still
:02:11. > :02:15.in for a long haul. In relation to the flags, he spoke about the issue
:02:15. > :02:23.of being a settled but delicate equilibrium. What we have had in the
:02:23. > :02:27.last few months shows the veracity of that. Sam McBride, looking ahead
:02:27. > :02:31.to the same-sex marriage issue which comes up at Stormont tomorrow.