:01:10. > :01:18.Coming up in 20 minutes: on refugees and citizens of seven
:01:19. > :01:19.I'll be asking the Ulster Unionists
:01:20. > :01:22.and the SDLP what they want from Theresa May as she prepares
:01:23. > :01:24.for meetings with the devolved administrations and the Dublin
:01:25. > :01:28.Should she have spoken out more strongly?
:01:29. > :01:30.We'll ask former Ukip leader and Trump confidant Nigel Farage
:01:31. > :01:33.what he makes of the travel ban and the Prime Minister's
:01:34. > :01:35.In London this week, the mayor, Sadiq Khan,
:01:36. > :01:38.has been coming under pressure to explain his fares freeze
:01:39. > :01:39.and why it doesn't apply to everybody.
:01:40. > :01:41.And with me, the best and brightest political
:01:42. > :01:43.panel in the business - Steve Richards, Julia
:01:44. > :01:46.They'll be tweeting throughout the programme.
:01:47. > :01:49.It was soon after Theresa May left the White House on Friday that
:01:50. > :01:51.Donald Trump signed the executive order banning citizens from seven
:01:52. > :01:57.President Trump's 90-day ban covers Iran, Iraq,
:01:58. > :02:01.Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Yemen and Syria, from
:02:02. > :02:05.where refugees are banned from until further notice.
:02:06. > :02:08.Donald Trump's executive order also imposes a complete ban
:02:09. > :02:13.on all refugees coming to the US for the next 120 days.
:02:14. > :02:17.Mr Trump said that the ban would keep radical Islamic terrorists out
:02:18. > :02:25.But the ban has sparked protests across the US,
:02:26. > :02:28.as people affected and already in the air were detained
:02:29. > :02:32.US laws have begun legal action to challenge the ban, which many
:02:33. > :02:38.At a press conference in Ankara, Turkey, Theresa May was asked
:02:39. > :02:42.about the refugee ban three times before giving this response...
:02:43. > :02:45.Well, the United States is responsible for the United States'
:02:46. > :02:51.The United Kingdom is responsible for the United Kingdom's policy
:02:52. > :02:54.on refugees, and our policy on refugees is to have a number
:02:55. > :02:56.of voluntary schemes to bring Syrian refugees into the country.
:02:57. > :03:11.Downing Street later issued a statement saying:
:03:12. > :03:14.This morning, the Treasury Minister, David Gauke, was asked why
:03:15. > :03:16.Theresa May had refused to condemn the travel ban at yesterday's
:03:17. > :03:22.The Prime Minister is not a shoot-from-the-hip
:03:23. > :03:26.She wants to see the evidence, she wants
:03:27. > :03:31.to understand precisely what the implications are.
:03:32. > :03:34.She'd been in a series of very lengthy meetings with
:03:35. > :03:38.President Erdogan, and she's someone who wants to see the briefing and
:03:39. > :03:41.understand it, and then will respond to that.
:03:42. > :03:43.I think there are times where, you know, there's always
:03:44. > :03:47.pressure to respond within a news cycle and so on.
:03:48. > :03:49.The important thing is, we are saying we disagree with it
:03:50. > :03:53.We're joined now from North London by the Conservative
:03:54. > :04:05.Should the Government in general and Theresa May in particular be more
:04:06. > :04:14.vocal in their criticism of Donald Trump's travel bans? Well, as David
:04:15. > :04:17.just said, it is obviously right that Theresa has now said this is an
:04:18. > :04:21.appropriate and not something we agree with in our Government, but I
:04:22. > :04:28.wish she had said something at the time, not least because it affects
:04:29. > :04:32.our own citizens. One of our own MPs, Nadhim, for example, because it
:04:33. > :04:39.is also a global crisis. She had clearly built an excellent with
:04:40. > :04:43.Donald Trump -- she had built an excellent relationship with him, but
:04:44. > :04:47.she could have been firmer. Mrs May hasn't said any word of criticism
:04:48. > :04:53.about the travel bans. She refused to say anything three times in
:04:54. > :04:55.Ankara, and it is merely an anonymous Downing Street
:04:56. > :04:58.spokesperson that has issued the subsequent mild criticism. We have
:04:59. > :05:03.not heard from the Prime Minister at all on this matter in terms of
:05:04. > :05:07.criticism. No, but the spokesperson will be speaking with her blessing,
:05:08. > :05:11.so it is clearly something she has acknowledged. As I said before, I
:05:12. > :05:15.wish she had said something at the time. The global climate at the
:05:16. > :05:20.moment is delicate and we need our leaders to work together to address
:05:21. > :05:24.things like the refugee crisis. Potentially, this plays into the
:05:25. > :05:32.hands of Daesh. It is absolutely not the right message. What would you
:05:33. > :05:35.like the Prime Minister to say? As with any new relationship, it is
:05:36. > :05:38.about testing the boundaries. They had clearly got on well, so she
:05:39. > :05:42.should have felt braver to say something there and then. I would
:05:43. > :05:45.have preferred her to say, for example, I need to talk to Donald
:05:46. > :05:47.Trump about this. It is not something I support and I want to
:05:48. > :05:52.understand why because I believe there is a better way to deal with
:05:53. > :05:56.the terrorist threat. I would have liked her to suggest that she would
:05:57. > :06:00.engage with him to do that. The president has instituted a 90 day
:06:01. > :06:06.temporary ban on people coming from seven mainly Muslim majority
:06:07. > :06:11.population countries. The seven were on President Obama's list of the
:06:12. > :06:15.biggest terrorist threats to the United States. Mr Trump wants this
:06:16. > :06:21.temporary ban until he puts tougher vetting procedures in place. What is
:06:22. > :06:25.wrong with that? Because it appeared to me that it wasn't thought through
:06:26. > :06:29.and it was affecting ordinary citizens and some British citizens.
:06:30. > :06:33.It can't be right that a president in that position of power can
:06:34. > :06:38.arbitrarily come up with executive powers like that. It has already
:06:39. > :06:43.been challenged by his own courts. So it is not the considered approach
:06:44. > :06:47.I want to see in a global leader. Who do you believe will be hurt by
:06:48. > :07:01.this, given that there can be exceptions on a case-by-case basis?
:07:02. > :07:06.I think potentially, our global reputation is going to be hurt by
:07:07. > :07:10.this. I have been to the refugee camps in Europe myself. There are
:07:11. > :07:14.desperate people trying to free persecution who will be hurt by
:07:15. > :07:18.this. We are trying to heal the wounds in this country not only
:07:19. > :07:20.because of Brexit. This is a time of coming together, not about saying it
:07:21. > :07:25.is located discriminatory against race and religion in this way. Do
:07:26. > :07:31.you believe that Mr Trump's state visit should go ahead? Well, he is
:07:32. > :07:34.the leader of America, so it does need to go ahead and we need to work
:07:35. > :07:39.with him. I believe Theresa has started in a positive manner was
:07:40. > :07:42.that she just needs to continue in that vein. If he comes to our
:07:43. > :07:48.country, he needs to respect the way we feel about things. But yes, he is
:07:49. > :07:51.the president, so he does need to come to the UK. There is some debate
:07:52. > :07:56.within Westminster as to where it is appropriate for him to speak to MPs,
:07:57. > :08:00.but it is right that he comes. But if he does come on a state visit,
:08:01. > :08:03.should he be granted what this country has always thought of as a
:08:04. > :08:09.great honour, which is a joint address to both Houses of
:08:10. > :08:12.Parliament? I haven't been an MP long enough to understand the
:08:13. > :08:17.protocol of where is the right location for him to do that, but I
:08:18. > :08:22.believe in the past, it has been the greatest leaders, when they have
:08:23. > :08:26.achieved great things globally, it is Westminster Hall. But there are a
:08:27. > :08:29.number of MPs saying that is not the most appropriate place and I am
:08:30. > :08:33.inclined to agree. You don't think he should be accorded the privilege
:08:34. > :08:38.of speaking to a joint session of Parliament? I think there are places
:08:39. > :08:41.where he can do that, but Westminster Hall is not yet the
:08:42. > :08:52.right place. Thank you for joining us.
:08:53. > :08:58.Steve, within 24 hours, we have seen the difficulty of becoming Donald
:08:59. > :09:02.Trump's best friend. On the one hand, it could have huge advantages,
:09:03. > :09:07.particularly for a Brexit Britain. On the other hand, if you are going
:09:08. > :09:12.to be his best friend, you don't have to give a running commentary on
:09:13. > :09:17.every major thing he does. Yeah. We have learned a bit about Theresa
:09:18. > :09:23.May, that when she has to produce a set piece speech which she has time
:09:24. > :09:27.to prepare, she can get it totally right and sometimes more than right.
:09:28. > :09:36.When she is faced with a fast-moving story, she is leaden footed and
:09:37. > :09:40.can't think quickly on her feet. We know, did she regret not saying
:09:41. > :09:44.more? Evidently she did, because we got a statement from the Downing
:09:45. > :09:48.Street spokesperson saying more. So she can't think quickly. She's going
:09:49. > :09:51.to have to think very quickly in response to some of the things he's
:09:52. > :09:56.going to be doing, because she will be asked about it all the time. It
:09:57. > :10:01.does highlight the wider danger that the assumption that the special
:10:02. > :10:04.relationship is always a safe and fertile place to be has been proven
:10:05. > :10:10.wrong before and I think it will be proven wrong big-time in this case.
:10:11. > :10:14.You're shaking your head. I don't see why we are responsible for
:10:15. > :10:18.American domestic policy. I am as appalled as the next person by what
:10:19. > :10:24.Donald Trump has done. He said he was going to do this, which was why
:10:25. > :10:27.I did not want Americans to vote for him. In fact, what he has
:10:28. > :10:32.implemented is much less than what he said he would do when he was
:10:33. > :10:38.campaigning. I have always felt that the campaigning Trump was the real
:10:39. > :10:41.Trump. But what he has done is actually constitutional. He has the
:10:42. > :10:47.executive power to issue this order. It is within the rules in terms of a
:10:48. > :10:51.class of aliens deemed to be a risk to the United States. It is a 90 day
:10:52. > :10:57.limited ban. The last president who did this was a Democrat president,
:10:58. > :11:01.President Carter. He did it in the aftermath of the Iranian crisis.
:11:02. > :11:04.Well, given the spate of terror attacks on American territory in
:11:05. > :11:12.recent years, you could argue that he meant well. I don't agree with
:11:13. > :11:17.Donald Trump. But have people from these countries that he has banned
:11:18. > :11:21.been involved in terrorist attacks? That is the absurdity. He has not
:11:22. > :11:25.included Egypt or Pakistan. But I don't remove everyone getting in
:11:26. > :11:28.such a state about President Carter. The reality is that it is a legal
:11:29. > :11:38.thing for him to do. I don't like it. But it is not my territory. It
:11:39. > :11:43.is illegal, because they have been given a right to remain by a judge
:11:44. > :11:48.in Brooklyn and another judging Alexandra. That is a different issue
:11:49. > :11:53.for people who have already gone through the vetting. I don't agree
:11:54. > :11:57.with this. However, I don't think it's reasonable to say that Theresa
:11:58. > :12:03.May, because she wants to do a deal with Donald Trump, I don't give is
:12:04. > :12:09.reasonable to say she have to agree with each of his policies. It is
:12:10. > :12:13.nonsense. But the issue, Janan, is not whether she needs to agree with
:12:14. > :12:19.him. The question is that she will be questioned about him all the time
:12:20. > :12:22.now. And although these are matters of domestic policy, the refugee
:12:23. > :12:28.policy is international. They speak to issues that affect Britain as
:12:29. > :12:33.well, and I would suggest that she will not get away with this
:12:34. > :12:37.anonymous statement from Downing Street. People will demand a she
:12:38. > :12:40.says something on the record. She would get away with it indefinitely.
:12:41. > :12:45.These situations will recur every time Donald Trump says or does
:12:46. > :12:49.something contentious. She will be pressed to this associate her
:12:50. > :12:54.administration from his. She will probably be in a better logistical
:12:55. > :12:59.situation to do so. She has spent a big chunk of the past 72 hours in
:13:00. > :13:03.the air. She flew from Washington to Ankara, than from Ankara to London.
:13:04. > :13:06.We don't have Air Force One, we don't have those frictionless
:13:07. > :13:10.communications with the ground. She would have been incommunicado for
:13:11. > :13:14.large periods of time when this story was breaking. That doesn't
:13:15. > :13:18.excuse the stiff response when she landed and issued a statement via
:13:19. > :13:22.Downing Street. But during that delay, she did have a plausible
:13:23. > :13:26.excuse. She has also got a much more tricky geopolitical situation than
:13:27. > :13:31.many other world leaders. She has to strike a favourable trade deal with
:13:32. > :13:35.the new US president. It is all very well people saying Justin Trudeau of
:13:36. > :13:38.Canada was much more vociferous in his criticism of Donald Trump. He is
:13:39. > :13:44.already in Nafta, he is not striking a new deal. For how long, we don't
:13:45. > :13:46.know. Exactly, he's trying to stay in Nafta, but he is in a less tricky
:13:47. > :13:51.situation than she is. Now, Theresa May's was the first
:13:52. > :13:53.foreign leader to meet President Trump and the visit
:13:54. > :13:56.was seen as quite a coup for the Prime Minister,
:13:57. > :13:58.keen for a new trading relationship with the United States
:13:59. > :14:00.in the wake of Brexit. The Prime Minister congratulated
:14:01. > :14:02.the new US President for his "stunning election victory"
:14:03. > :14:05.but might not have intended to be pictured walking
:14:06. > :14:07.through the White House with him That picture of Donald Trump helping
:14:08. > :14:11.Theresa May down the steps through the White House colonnade
:14:12. > :14:14.will be the enduring image Mrs May said the President
:14:15. > :14:22.told her he was "100% behind Nato". And for her part, the Prime Minister
:14:23. > :14:26.said she would work hard to make sure other Nato countries
:14:27. > :14:29.increased their defence spending It's been announced
:14:30. > :14:35.that there will be a new trade negotiation agreement,
:14:36. > :14:37.with high-level talks The hope is that this will lead
:14:38. > :14:42.to a new trade deal between the two countries as soon as
:14:43. > :14:46.Britain leaves the EU. Mr Trump said he believed "Brexit's
:14:47. > :14:49.going to be a wonderful thing". On Russia, Theresa May made clear
:14:50. > :14:52.to Donald Trump her continued
:14:53. > :14:58.backing for sanctions. And following the controversy over
:14:59. > :15:00.the President's support for torture, Mr Trump said he would defer
:15:01. > :15:03.to his Secretary of Defense, General James Mattis, who argues
:15:04. > :15:06.that the practice doesn't work. And I'm joined now by the former
:15:07. > :15:22.Ukip leader, Nigel Farage. Do you agree with Mr Trump's
:15:23. > :15:26.decision to ban Syrian refugees indefinitely from entering the
:15:27. > :15:30.United States? I agree with the concept of democracy, a point which
:15:31. > :15:35.appears to be missed by almost all commentators including the BBC. He
:15:36. > :15:39.was elected to get tough and say he would do everything in his power to
:15:40. > :15:47.protect America from infiltration by ISIS terrorists. There are seven
:15:48. > :15:52.countries on that list. He's entitled to do this. I didn't ask if
:15:53. > :15:58.he was entitled, I asked if agree with it. I do, because if you just
:15:59. > :16:02.look at what's happening in France and Germany, if you look at Angela
:16:03. > :16:08.Merkel's policy which was to allow virtually anyone in from anywhere,
:16:09. > :16:12.look what it led to. You said in 2013 there's a responsibility on all
:16:13. > :16:17.of us in the free west to help some of those people fleeing Syria
:16:18. > :16:22.literally in fear of their lives. That's the Christian community in
:16:23. > :16:25.virtually all of those country, it is almost too late because many have
:16:26. > :16:31.been wiped out but if you are looking for a genuine definition of
:16:32. > :16:35.a refugee, going back to 1951, it is someone in direct fear of
:16:36. > :16:40.persecution of their life because of their race, religion or beliefs. But
:16:41. > :16:44.you didn't talk about only Christians, and in January 2014 you
:16:45. > :16:48.said, I seem to recall it was Ukip who started the debate on allowing
:16:49. > :16:54.Syrian refugees, you seem to be in favour of allowing proper refugees
:16:55. > :17:02.into this country. If they can be defined. Mr Trump won't let any in.
:17:03. > :17:06.He is running American policy, not British policy. Since I made those
:17:07. > :17:11.comments, we have had the Angela Merkel madness and I think Trump's
:17:12. > :17:16.policy in many ways has been shaped by what Angela Merkel did. He is
:17:17. > :17:19.fully entitled to do this, and as far as we are concerned in this
:17:20. > :17:29.country, I would like to see extreme vetting. Since 9/11 can you name any
:17:30. > :17:33.terrorist event in the United States that has involved refugees that have
:17:34. > :17:38.been allowed into the country? No, in fact the terrorist events have
:17:39. > :17:43.been US citizens radicalised. When you have a problem already, why
:17:44. > :17:46.would you wish to add to it? I would remind you that of the eight people
:17:47. > :17:50.that committed those atrocities in Paris, five of them had got into
:17:51. > :17:56.Europe posing as refugees so there is an issue here. But perhaps not
:17:57. > :17:59.for America because it has the most rigorous and lengthy screening
:18:00. > :18:05.process in the world, especially for Syrians. You have to register with
:18:06. > :18:09.the UN agency for refugees, which then recommend certain names to
:18:10. > :18:13.America, they then go through biometric screening, database
:18:14. > :18:24.screening, intelligent screenings, including four separate intelligence
:18:25. > :18:31.agencies screening you. How more rigorous would you want it to be? It
:18:32. > :18:35.is much more rigorous than we are or the rest of Europe. This is why we
:18:36. > :18:38.have elections, so voters can make choices and they voted for Donald
:18:39. > :18:44.Trump to become president and he said he would put bans in place and
:18:45. > :18:47.then move towards extreme vetting. As far as the Syrians are concerned
:18:48. > :18:54.he's made that decision but that's what he was voted in fourth. Since
:18:55. > :18:59.you know him, you have met him, you are confident of his, I'm testing
:19:00. > :19:03.you on the logic of it. Not that he's democratically elected, I'm not
:19:04. > :19:06.asking about that, I'm trying to get the case, particularly since if you
:19:07. > :19:13.take the seven countries of which the ban applies for 19 days, again,
:19:14. > :19:16.of these seven countries, its citizens have not been involved in
:19:17. > :19:20.terrorist attacks in the United States. It would be a mistake to say
:19:21. > :19:24.it is just Muslim countries because the biggest Muslim countries in the
:19:25. > :19:27.world have not been included in this. The point is they have made
:19:28. > :19:33.this assessment, they bought themselves 90 days to think about
:19:34. > :19:39.the policy. This is exactly what Trump's voters would have wanted him
:19:40. > :19:44.to do. You said the President's rhetoric on immigrants made even you
:19:45. > :19:48.feel very uncomfortable. Because he started by saying there was a total
:19:49. > :19:53.ban, then amended it to say there would be vetting. My guess is that
:19:54. > :19:57.what he will do is try to genuinely help Syrian people and he will be
:19:58. > :20:04.talking about the creation of some safe zones. Let's see. He hasn't. We
:20:05. > :20:10.will see. I suspect something like that is coming down the trap. What
:20:11. > :20:16.advice did you give to the president and his advisers ahead of Theresa
:20:17. > :20:20.May's visit? That I wanted us to talk about trade and to give the
:20:21. > :20:24.Prime Minister the impression that actually... When she has been
:20:25. > :20:29.surrounded by her whole career by civil servants and politicians who
:20:30. > :20:33.say that everything takes five years or seven years or ten years, to make
:20:34. > :20:37.it clear to the Prime Minister that if there is will, these things can
:20:38. > :20:41.be done quickly. Isn't there a danger of a British Prime Minister
:20:42. > :20:47.who has to deal with the president of the United States, to Ally
:20:48. > :20:52.herself so closely with such an unpredictable, controversial
:20:53. > :20:56.president, banning Muslims in certain ways and refugees, building
:20:57. > :21:01.a war with Mexico, threatening trade was with other countries, thinking
:21:02. > :21:05.of ending sanctions against Russia? I missing something here, what is
:21:06. > :21:10.controversial about defending the Mexican border? Bill Clinton spoke
:21:11. > :21:15.in tough terms, George Bush built six miles of fence, and because it
:21:16. > :21:18.is Donald Trump there is uproar. So you think there is no risk of the
:21:19. > :21:23.British by Minister being the best friend of this type of president? I
:21:24. > :21:27.think there is no risk in putting together a trade deal and no risk in
:21:28. > :21:31.her being the bridge between America and the rest of Nato to say to Nato
:21:32. > :21:37.members if you don't pay your 2% he is serious so on those things there
:21:38. > :21:42.is no risk at all. It was clear from her Lancaster house speech that the
:21:43. > :21:45.Brexiteers in the Government had won pretty much every argument in terms
:21:46. > :21:53.of negotiations to come out. What you want from her? She was very good
:21:54. > :21:56.as Home Secretary, Tory party conferences, the Tory press saying
:21:57. > :22:01.this was the new Thatcher and she failed. She even failed to control
:22:02. > :22:05.immigration from outside the European Union so yes, it was a good
:22:06. > :22:10.speech and for many on the Eurosceptic side of the argument, I
:22:11. > :22:13.could scarcely believe that a British Prime Minister was saying
:22:14. > :22:20.things which I had been roundly abused and vilified for. But I have
:22:21. > :22:23.a feeling we may be in for a very frustrating 2017. The mood as I can
:22:24. > :22:28.see it in Brussels is that negotiating with Britain is not a
:22:29. > :22:31.priority, they are far more worried about Dutch elections, French
:22:32. > :22:37.elections, German elections and possibly even Italian elections. I
:22:38. > :22:39.worry that by the end of this year we may not have made much progress
:22:40. > :22:46.and that's why the Trump visit suddenly things brings into focus.
:22:47. > :22:51.What if by the middle of June, for argument 's sake, the Americans say
:22:52. > :22:54.OK we reached this position with the British, compromised on the tough
:22:55. > :23:00.stuff, food standards and things like that, we are ready to sign a
:23:01. > :23:04.deal now, and Theresa May is to say actually Mr Juncker says I cannot
:23:05. > :23:10.sign this until we leave. What will they do? They cannot throw us out,
:23:11. > :23:14.we are living anyway. But everybody agrees you can talk about the deal,
:23:15. > :23:19.maybe even do the heads of agreement but you cannot sign a treaty until
:23:20. > :23:23.we have left the EU. Let me predict that at the end of this year we will
:23:24. > :23:26.find a European Union who frankly don't want to talk to us and
:23:27. > :23:31.countries around the world that want to get on and do things and that
:23:32. > :23:36.will be the big tension for Mrs May over the course of this year. If the
:23:37. > :23:40.Prime Minister is giving you everything you want on Brexit, you
:23:41. > :23:44.agree that she's trying to get from your point of view the right things.
:23:45. > :23:48.If she delivers on that and get Brexit on the terms of which you
:23:49. > :23:53.approve, what's the point of Ukip? You could argue that about any
:23:54. > :23:59.political party. If we have achieved the goal that we set out to achieve,
:24:00. > :24:02.there are right now out there 4 million people who are Ukip
:24:03. > :24:07.loyalists. They are delighted that by voting Ukip we got a referendum,
:24:08. > :24:12.they will be even happier if they seek us leave the European Union and
:24:13. > :24:16.I think there is still a gap in British politics for a party that
:24:17. > :24:19.says it as it sees it, is not afraid by political correctness and is seen
:24:20. > :24:24.to be on the side of the little people, and that's why, with the
:24:25. > :24:29.Labour Party is fundamentally split, and it really is totally split over
:24:30. > :24:34.this European question, I think Ukip is in good shape. That proposition
:24:35. > :24:38.will be put to test at the Stoke Central by-election, one of Ukip's
:24:39. > :24:42.best prospects in the country. Some people call it the capital of
:24:43. > :24:49.Brexit. Labour is in chaos over Article 50, is picked a candidate to
:24:50. > :24:58.fight Stoke Central who has described Brexit is a pile of notes.
:24:59. > :25:02.If your successor, Paul Nuttall, cannot win the Stoke by-election,
:25:03. > :25:06.there's not much hope for you, is there? I think he will. I've always
:25:07. > :25:12.been told don't make predictions but I think he will win. If you doesn't
:25:13. > :25:17.it will be tough, we will still have our 4 million loyalists, but if it
:25:18. > :25:22.does we can actually see Labour are beatable in their heartlands and
:25:23. > :25:24.Ukip will be off to the second big stage. Nigel Farage, thank you for
:25:25. > :25:38.being with us. Hello and welcome
:25:39. > :25:40.to Sunday Politics. with Donald Trump, Theresa May
:25:41. > :25:44.is set to meet Enda Kenny tomorrow, where the issue of Brexit
:25:45. > :25:46.will be top of the agenda. I'll be asking the Ulster Unionists
:25:47. > :25:49.and the SDLP what they would be saying to the Prime Minister
:25:50. > :25:52.if they had her ear. Plus - I'll be asking a Fine Gael TD
:25:53. > :25:55.what Enda Kenny should And with their thoughts throughout,
:25:56. > :25:58.it's Chris Donnelly MPs will have their say
:25:59. > :26:05.on the snappily titled The SDLP will back an SNP amendment
:26:06. > :26:13.which aims to stop the bill Despite campaigning to remain,
:26:14. > :26:17.the Ulster Unionist Party's MPs Joining me are the SDLP's Claire
:26:18. > :26:27.Hanna and Philip Smith from the UUP. Philip Smith, your party's
:26:28. > :26:29.official position on the EU referendum was to remain,
:26:30. > :26:41.but now you're supporting the Democracy. On the 23rd of June, the
:26:42. > :26:46.British population voted to leave the EU, by a relatively narrow
:26:47. > :26:50.margin, but they'll voted to leave nonetheless. -- they voted to leave.
:26:51. > :26:54.We saw it as a national referendum and result, so we will abide by
:26:55. > :26:58.democracy, and our challenge now is not to fight the referendum again
:26:59. > :27:05.but to get prepared for Brexit. That is one of the problems. The previous
:27:06. > :27:09.executive, DUP and Sinn Fein, could not agree on a plan for Northern
:27:10. > :27:12.Ireland and we have no executive or assembly and we're doubly impacted,
:27:13. > :27:17.which is a legacy of the past executive and is appalling.
:27:18. > :27:27.Your MEPs said that... or region of the UK yet
:27:28. > :27:32.it is the least prepared. You published a list of 10 key asks
:27:33. > :27:36.for NI from the government as part of the Brexit debate last September
:27:37. > :27:39.- and with no guarantee that you've secured any of them,
:27:40. > :27:48.you're going to back It is back to that word democracy.
:27:49. > :27:51.What we wanted the executive to do was instead of giving a 2-page
:27:52. > :27:56.letter, which they produced in August, was to produce a plan for
:27:57. > :28:00.Northern Ireland, how we're going to mitigate the impact on our
:28:01. > :28:04.agriculture, how we will improve our economy, how we will deal with the
:28:05. > :28:07.border, how we will ensure that Northern Ireland doesn't go into
:28:08. > :28:13.internal exile in the rest of the UK. These are fundamental issues.
:28:14. > :28:19.But what are you doing about them? You listed ten key points, including
:28:20. > :28:24.safeguards for the Common travel area, have you just forgotten about
:28:25. > :28:27.them? We have been pushing in the assembly. We are the opposition,
:28:28. > :28:32.remember. We have been trying to make sure the executive parties are
:28:33. > :28:40.focused on the challenges that face Northern Ireland. Are now you have
:28:41. > :28:44.rolled over? We haven't. People will have an opportunity to vote for us,
:28:45. > :28:47.put us into Government and implement that plan. Come the 2nd of March,
:28:48. > :28:51.that is one of the reasons why people need to vote for us and get
:28:52. > :28:59.some clarification. Claire Hanna, Colum Eastwood has
:29:00. > :29:02.pledged your party's MPs will use all means possible to defend
:29:03. > :29:09.the interests of the people Nothing we have seen since the
:29:10. > :29:15.referendum has given us any assurance that it will not be --
:29:16. > :29:19.that it will be anything other than damaging. We are working with the
:29:20. > :29:28.SNP to make sure there will be consultation with devolved
:29:29. > :29:38.governments. Minor modifications and amendments - to you except that?
:29:39. > :29:45.Northern Ireland is unprepared. The parties cannot use the RHI issue. It
:29:46. > :29:49.predated all of this. Sinn Fein did not really lift a finger before the
:29:50. > :29:52.referendum and have tried to pin everything on the Dublin Government
:29:53. > :29:57.since then, but there are options and opportunities. You can't stop
:29:58. > :30:06.the juggernaut. That's the phrase your part the Lido. -- party leader.
:30:07. > :30:15.You have three MPs out of 650 and you will not stop the juggernaut. We
:30:16. > :30:18.are collaborating with the SNP. Everybody has accepted that there
:30:19. > :30:24.will be different manifestations and impacts on this island, and on
:30:25. > :30:29.Northern Ireland, and we intend to maximise those. There is a lot of
:30:30. > :30:34.support over special provisions for Ireland. If Nissan can get a special
:30:35. > :30:39.deal, so can Northern Ireland. Give me some specifics. What shape would
:30:40. > :30:45.you put on it? We think some access to the single market. She has
:30:46. > :30:52.already said no. She hasn't said how it will work. Anyone who saw Theresa
:30:53. > :30:57.May's sycophantic appeasement of Trump will know how desperate the
:30:58. > :31:03.situation we are in. She has cut off our nose to spite your face on
:31:04. > :31:06.trade. She might see some value in having at least part of the UK
:31:07. > :31:11.within the single market, and every some opportunity for that. We have
:31:12. > :31:15.had a sympathetic ear. Colin eastward has been around Europe and
:31:16. > :31:22.has found a lot of leaders open to it. Are you not let down by the
:31:23. > :31:27.Ulster Unionist Party? There are areas where we have worked closely,
:31:28. > :31:30.and it is no secret that we have different ideologies and
:31:31. > :31:35.aspirations. The Ulster Unionists are focused on the clearance of the
:31:36. > :31:39.UK, but we are focused on Northern Ireland and the Northern Ireland
:31:40. > :31:44.economy. We have common ground around access to funding. There are
:31:45. > :31:47.clearly areas where you do not agree, and you told us that we need
:31:48. > :31:52.to think about an alternative Government on the 2nd of March. Here
:31:53. > :31:58.is a critical issue on which you don't agree. We don't agree on
:31:59. > :32:02.everything. The SDLP are a Nationalist party and we are a
:32:03. > :32:05.Unionist party. We're talking about Brexit. Everybody knows about your
:32:06. > :32:10.disagreements on Northern Ireland, but you don't agree on a lot of this
:32:11. > :32:14.stuff either. We are focused on getting the best deal for Northern
:32:15. > :32:17.Ireland. You are accepting Government plans without trying to
:32:18. > :32:23.put any shape on it, which is not the same approach as the SDLP. The
:32:24. > :32:32.UK is leaving the European Union. And the SDLP are wrong to reject
:32:33. > :32:39.that? They have Aeron agenda. Northern Ireland didn't vote to
:32:40. > :32:42.leave -- they have their own agenda. Northern Ireland, Scotland and
:32:43. > :32:51.London did not vote to leave. Northern Ireland is in receipt of
:32:52. > :32:55.?600 million per annum. We will only get 300 million, so there is a mass
:32:56. > :33:00.of funding gap. Farmers will be impacted, so will businesses and
:33:01. > :33:04.universities. So, you're way of dealing with it is to back Theresa
:33:05. > :33:10.May's hard Brexit. A lot of people will watch and wonder how this makes
:33:11. > :33:13.sense. To get over that, we need to negotiate with the Government to
:33:14. > :33:17.ensure a package of measures are put in place to ensure that Northern
:33:18. > :33:22.Ireland is recognised as being most affected but is also most prepared.
:33:23. > :33:36.That is the difference between our position and that Sinn Fein and the
:33:37. > :33:39.DUP. One or two might of the former First Minister and Michelle O'Neill
:33:40. > :33:50.are attending to that. In what capacity, I don't know. We're not
:33:51. > :33:52.going to agree... So they are representing Northern Ireland in a
:33:53. > :34:02.capacity we don't understand and they won't agree. We will hear our
:34:03. > :34:06.plan tomorrow from Wales and Scotland. It is a failing of the
:34:07. > :34:11.executive that predates the current one. There are areas where there is
:34:12. > :34:17.commonality, including how we manage some of the repatriated devolved
:34:18. > :34:20.rules. Jim Smith, if it were your party leaders attending the meeting
:34:21. > :34:23.in Cardiff tomorrow, you could not speak with one voice either, because
:34:24. > :34:27.your party leaders take fundamentally different views as
:34:28. > :34:32.well. You can criticise Sinn Fein and the DNP all you like, but if
:34:33. > :34:35.there was an Ulster Unionist representatives sitting down
:34:36. > :34:42.tomorrow to articulate a Northern Ireland position, there would be two
:34:43. > :34:46.separate positions. Are fundamental difference opposition has shown is
:34:47. > :34:51.that both parties can work together, come to agreements. You don't agree
:34:52. > :34:55.on this. You like but we can work together, negotiate and come up with
:34:56. > :35:03.a solution for Northern Ireland. That is the fundamental difference
:35:04. > :35:11.between our parties and the DUP. There is no commonality there. There
:35:12. > :35:15.is. You tell me where the commonality is, on that
:35:16. > :35:21.specifically. We don't know from day-to-day what is in Theresa May
:35:22. > :35:25.Boruc Johnson's head. It is evolving. By the 9th of February, we
:35:26. > :35:32.will have a clearer idea and a clear response to that. -- Boris Johnson's
:35:33. > :35:35.head. We will collectively work together to get the best deal for
:35:36. > :35:38.Northern Ireland and the island. We will bear that in mind and
:35:39. > :35:42.times between now and the 2nd of March.
:35:43. > :35:46.Let's hear from my guests of the day - Lesley Carroll
:35:47. > :36:12.Be two parties are as far apart as Sinn Fein and the DUP were apart
:36:13. > :36:16.when they held the positions of First Minister and Deputy. It stems
:36:17. > :36:19.back to decisions taken on the referendum and since then how the
:36:20. > :36:24.Ulster Unionist Party have moved to a position of saying that the
:36:25. > :36:28.British public voted for it so we have to support Brexit. There could
:36:29. > :36:31.be ground over a period of time to agree principles around trying to
:36:32. > :36:37.minimise the impact, but the sense of powerlessness that I think
:36:38. > :36:41.politicians and the public now have is overwhelming. This is a much
:36:42. > :36:45.bigger political game being played, at a level of Theresa May and the
:36:46. > :36:47.EU. Perhaps there is an influence we could wield with the Irish
:36:48. > :36:59.Government, and I think that somewhere in there... You were an
:37:00. > :37:05.Ulster Unionist candidate at the last election in May. I want to take
:37:06. > :37:08.a broader overview with you. How big difficulty is it for Northern
:37:09. > :37:13.Ireland that it doesn't have a single voice in the Brexit debate at
:37:14. > :37:16.this stage? We don't have a functioning executive and the two
:37:17. > :37:20.people at the meeting tomorrow take very different views on this issue.
:37:21. > :37:27.I think it is a massive issue that we don't have a united voice. Claire
:37:28. > :37:31.Hanna spoke about Northern Ireland being unprepared. Westminster is
:37:32. > :37:34.unprepared as well not only for what we face but for taking account of
:37:35. > :37:42.the regions. Scotland is different because of the massive SNP vote so
:37:43. > :37:48.there is a united voice, unlike here. We need to get to that voice
:37:49. > :37:51.urgently, very, very urgently. Claire also spoke about the
:37:52. > :37:55.coherence of the Ulster Unionist Party, being concerned about the
:37:56. > :37:59.coherence of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Actually, the
:38:00. > :38:03.coherence of these islands matters in terms of Brexit. Chris is right,
:38:04. > :38:08.we need to look to the south. Without that united voice, our
:38:09. > :38:12.capacity to influence is so limited, and we end up feeling powerless in
:38:13. > :38:14.it all. We will talk to your bit later in the programme. Thank you
:38:15. > :38:16.both very much indeed. Now, let's pause and take a look
:38:17. > :38:19.back at the political week gone past in 60 seconds,
:38:20. > :38:30.with Gareth Gordon. The terms of the RHI public enquiry
:38:31. > :38:36.were revealed. To get to the fact of the eye which I -- the RHI scheme,
:38:37. > :38:40.to identify corruption and abuse. Arlene Foster was confident that one
:38:41. > :38:44.of her former advisers will be cleared of wrongdoing. It is wrong
:38:45. > :38:48.that we pursue people on beliefs. What we need to do is get to the
:38:49. > :38:54.facts. Sinn Fein unveiled its new northern leader. Agreements must be
:38:55. > :38:58.honoured, commitments must be delivered with partnership
:38:59. > :39:02.Government must mean exactly that. The Director of Public Prosecutions
:39:03. > :39:09.rejected allegations of bias in Troubles cases. They are being
:39:10. > :39:13.insulting and questioning our integrity. The DUP still believes
:39:14. > :39:18.there is still too much focus on former soldiers. This system at the
:39:19. > :39:23.moment is not fair, focused almost entirely on what the state does. And
:39:24. > :39:28.the assembly ended in low-key fashion. The assembly is adjourned.
:39:29. > :39:30.Gareth Gordon looking back at another busy week.
:39:31. > :39:33.Theresa May has been doing the rounds this week -
:39:34. > :39:36.first Washington, then Istanbul, and tomorrow she'll be visiting
:39:37. > :39:40.She has already declined an invitation to address the Dail,
:39:41. > :39:44.but there will be no shortage of things to talk about
:39:45. > :39:48.With me is the Fine Gael TD for Louth, Fergus O'Dowd.
:39:49. > :39:54.How important is that meeting between the two premiers?
:39:55. > :40:02.It is hugely important. Brexit is the biggest decision facing these
:40:03. > :40:05.islands for generations. An important successful outcome of
:40:06. > :40:09.these discussions will be hugely beneficial to all of us on this
:40:10. > :40:10.island and in the United Kingdom as well.
:40:11. > :40:19.Does that suggest Ireland is not a priority for her?
:40:20. > :40:30.I don't think so. That invitation came indirectly from a member of the
:40:31. > :40:38.house. I think the invitation is listed and always will stand. It was
:40:39. > :40:41.not a snub? No. We would love her to address our Parliament. Our
:40:42. > :40:46.relationship with Britain is hugely important, as are our relations with
:40:47. > :40:50.the North. Enda Kenny in Theresa May have commonality in keeping peace in
:40:51. > :40:58.this island. We are joint guarantors of the Good Friday agreement. Our
:40:59. > :41:02.economies are interlinked. Britain and Ireland for generations, for
:41:03. > :41:06.centuries, there have been people over and back, we have families, we
:41:07. > :41:12.have everything in each other's countries, so we must work hard.
:41:13. > :41:18.Enda Kenny and Theresa May will work to ensure the best outcome in this
:41:19. > :41:22.difficult position. What do you think the Taoiseach will want to
:41:23. > :41:25.hear from Theresa May? We have had a conversation about the SDLP
:41:26. > :41:29.perspective that Theresa May is driving a hard Brexit juggernaut.
:41:30. > :41:32.That is not the vehicle that Enda Kenny would like her to be behind
:41:33. > :41:39.the wheel of, but there we are. The island won't benefit from that. Our
:41:40. > :41:42.economy, North and south, we are interlinked and joined up with
:41:43. > :41:48.everybody in every way. Farmers in the North export milk down to us,
:41:49. > :41:54.and we send it back up. Our business, trade, commerce is
:41:55. > :42:01.interlinked. Do you think he needs to explain that? If we listen to
:42:02. > :42:05.what the Chambers of commerce are saying, they are interlinked and
:42:06. > :42:09.intertwined. Huge progress has been made others -- as a result of the
:42:10. > :42:21.Good Friday agreement and we must continue that. The softer the border
:42:22. > :42:25.the better. I think we have to use every possible imaginative outcome
:42:26. > :42:29.we can have. The Irish Government has been planning for a long time,
:42:30. > :42:33.looking at all the different options, and I think this meeting
:42:34. > :42:38.with Theresa May is critical to progress on all of these islands.
:42:39. > :42:43.Are you saying that he will be arguing, the Taoiseach, for a
:42:44. > :42:48.special arrangement between Ireland, north and south, and the UK when
:42:49. > :42:51.Brexit happens? The difficulty is that the negotiation at the EU level
:42:52. > :42:59.is between heads of state and Britain. The only Irish person
:43:00. > :43:03.speaking at those will be Enda Kenny, so his voice is powerful and
:43:04. > :43:09.influential, but I think that the relationship between Britain and
:43:10. > :43:12.Ireland is extremely important and special, and we must take that as
:43:13. > :43:16.far as we can. We don't have the power to clearly negotiate but we
:43:17. > :43:23.have to have the agenda agreed between us. If we don't, it will be
:43:24. > :43:26.bad for everyone. Is he more concerned about the Republic trading
:43:27. > :43:30.with the UK than he is over the border between the north and South?
:43:31. > :43:35.I live in a border county and we never want to go back to what
:43:36. > :43:40.happened before. Clearly, peace in Ireland, the Good Friday agreement,
:43:41. > :43:43.is absolutely critical to the future of everybody on this island, so I
:43:44. > :43:52.would say it is number one out there. And our economy, obviously,
:43:53. > :43:57.and our cooperation between counties. If you look at health
:43:58. > :44:01.cooperation in terms of cancer services in the North West, all
:44:02. > :44:06.those things, all our communications, our whole country
:44:07. > :44:08.together, forgetting our constitutional issues, working
:44:09. > :44:15.together is where it is at. Which is more important, in your view,
:44:16. > :44:19.Dublin's relationship with Brussels or with London? I think our
:44:20. > :44:24.relationships on this island with each other are the priority.
:44:25. > :44:27.Clearly, we have the influence in Brussels, and Britain as the
:44:28. > :44:32.influence in the British Government. We have to work together. Peace on
:44:33. > :44:36.this island is number one. It is a no-brainer. We can't have a Mexican
:44:37. > :44:41.wall between North and South in this country. Our future is together, and
:44:42. > :44:46.that's the only place we'll get on, and we must get on. We must overcome
:44:47. > :44:50.the barriers, we must do it. If we don't, we will ultimately go back to
:44:51. > :44:56.where we were, when nobody wants to go. Let's talk about the choppy
:44:57. > :45:01.waters Mr Kenny seems to have got into over a coalition in the future
:45:02. > :45:06.with Sinn Fein. He has issued a statement of clarification ruling
:45:07. > :45:10.that out after seeming to suggest that his position was softening
:45:11. > :45:23.earlier in the week. His position is clear. Now it is, it wasn't earlier
:45:24. > :45:27.in the week. He has said there will not be a Government between Sinn
:45:28. > :45:30.Fein and Fine Gael. Earlier in the week, he refused to answer the
:45:31. > :45:38.question. You have answered in a straightforward way now. Why did he
:45:39. > :45:42.make such a mess of it? There is a position of absolute clarity. We
:45:43. > :45:47.absolutely agree that it will not happen. He has made a rod for his
:45:48. > :45:53.own back. The papers are talking about him maybe not being lead by
:45:54. > :46:00.Easter. Are you aware of a push to get rid of him because he has been
:46:01. > :46:04.so clumsily footed? It is up to him whether he should leave the office.
:46:05. > :46:10.Do you think he should go sooner rather than later? We need a
:46:11. > :46:17.Taoiseach in place for these Brexit negotiations. So he should not go
:46:18. > :46:20.until 2018? We have to bring Brexit to its finality. Individual
:46:21. > :46:25.personalities are not important. What is critical is the cooperation
:46:26. > :46:32.and the unity of our ideas if we can't unify our politics, we must
:46:33. > :46:37.work together. It is the only game in town. Thank you for coming in to
:46:38. > :46:44.join us. A final word with Leslie and Chris. When the Taoiseach ties
:46:45. > :46:48.himself in knots, is this good news for Sinn Fein? What is clear is
:46:49. > :46:53.whatever Enda Kenny has been saying this week, flip-flopping over the
:46:54. > :46:58.issue of coalition with Sinn Fein, in the likely scenario of Sinn Fein
:46:59. > :47:06.being led by Arlene McDonald or Pearse Doherty, Sinn Fein would find
:47:07. > :47:10.reasons and find possible -- Fine Gael would find it possible to make
:47:11. > :47:14.a coalition with Sinn Fein. The problem at the moment is Gerry
:47:15. > :47:20.Adams. That is interesting, and it is a subject we will return to
:47:21. > :47:28.repeatedly over the coming months. Leslie, are you planning to sit this
:47:29. > :47:33.one out? I am sitting it out. Has a candidate been chosen for North
:47:34. > :47:41.Belfast? Yes. You didn't throw your hat in the ring? No. No regrets? I
:47:42. > :47:45.think the position are goverment finds itself in is now so difficult
:47:46. > :47:49.and it is difficult to predict what will happen in this snap election
:47:50. > :47:54.that I am very happy to sit it out for the time being. Does it look to
:47:55. > :47:58.you like being the brutal campaign that Arlene Foster predicted? It has
:47:59. > :48:05.the potential to be that, but if we allow that, we will slip back into
:48:06. > :48:10.behaviour from before the Good Friday agreement, and we need not to
:48:11. > :48:14.go there. We need to focus on partnerships and relationships. What
:48:15. > :48:19.do we need to look out for in the next week? Brexit, over the next
:48:20. > :48:23.coming days, with Theresa May in Dublin, will be a key issue. After
:48:24. > :48:24.that, we will see what happens. The reactions to Trump will be
:48:25. > :48:26.important. That's it from Sunday
:48:27. > :48:28.Politics for this week. Join me for The View on Thursday
:48:29. > :48:31.night at 10.40pm on BBC One. But for now, from everyone
:48:32. > :48:59.in the team, bye-bye. We know you understand the risks
:49:00. > :49:01.associated with your pregnancy. Because I'm smaller, people think
:49:02. > :49:05.my hopes are not so great.