:00:40. > :00:45.Afternoon. Welcome to the Sunday politics. The top story is George
:00:45. > :00:50.Osborne wanting Britain to play its part to stabilise the world economy.
:00:50. > :00:53.The opposition will request billions of pounds of extra funds
:00:53. > :01:03.to bail out the eurozone. Does the Chancellor had a fight on his
:01:03. > :01:05.
:01:05. > :01:11.hands? Has Ed Miliband got his fingers burned? I will be asking
:01:11. > :01:16.the shadow Business Secretary in the Sunday interview. A judge has
:01:16. > :01:21.ruled that a radical Muslim cleric can stay in this country. Should we
:01:21. > :01:24.leave the European Court of Human Rights? We will debate that topic
:01:25. > :01:28.live. And on Sunday Politics Scotland:
:01:28. > :01:30.The head of the Council of Economic Advisors tells us he doesn't know
:01:30. > :01:33.what a post-independence economy would look like and using sterling
:01:33. > :01:36.wouldn't be ideal. But Crawford Beveridge is still finding reasons
:01:36. > :01:46.to be cheerful. And is the Advocate General above
:01:46. > :01:46.
:01:46. > :29:22.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1655 seconds
:29:22. > :29:27.I am sitting on the government commission looking at this. People
:29:28. > :29:32.have raised a number of things. One of the things they are concerned
:29:32. > :29:36.about is if we withdrew from the European Convention, we would be
:29:36. > :29:45.withdrawing from the Council of Europe. It would be very difficult
:29:46. > :29:54.to withdraw from the European Council. What would be wrong with
:29:54. > :29:59.having a British Bill of Rights? am one of the people who argued
:29:59. > :30:04.that we should have a jury trial, habeas corpus, incorporated into
:30:04. > :30:08.our very own Bill of Rights. The problem with it is people like
:30:08. > :30:16.Martin want to use this as a Trojan horse because they do not like
:30:16. > :30:20.Europe. The Council of Europe is completely separate to the EU.
:30:20. > :30:24.Another example is the issue of prisoners voting rights. The House
:30:24. > :30:31.of Commons has ordered by enormous majorities that we do not wish to
:30:31. > :30:34.give the right of prisoners the vote. The European Court of Human
:30:35. > :30:43.Rights is substituting its judgment for the will of our elected
:30:43. > :30:47.representatives. What are the chances of Mr Cameron making any
:30:47. > :30:53.move on this? We will see what he comes out with. He wants to
:30:53. > :31:03.introduce a filtering mechanism. What does he want to do? He does
:31:03. > :31:10.
:31:10. > :31:15.not have a good chance. Thank you Good afternoon. Welcome to Scotland.
:31:15. > :31:18.Coming up, the head of the Council of Economic Advisers tells us that
:31:18. > :31:23.fiscal policy of using Stirling in an independent Scotland is not
:31:23. > :31:29.ideal. He is not sure what the economic implications of
:31:29. > :31:32.independence would be. Is the nude role of the Advocate General
:31:32. > :31:37.becoming political? Who'll board in the referendum? Will Scottish
:31:37. > :31:45.soldiers based in England miss out? The government say you can have
:31:45. > :31:50.your cake and eat it, but at what cost? The Council of economic
:31:50. > :31:53.advisers met this week for the first time since the end of 2010.
:31:53. > :31:56.This independent body offers insight and advice to government. I
:31:56. > :32:06.caught up with the businessman Crawford Beveridge after the
:32:06. > :32:13.
:32:13. > :32:17.meeting. It is hard to tell how it 2012 is shaping up. It looks like
:32:17. > :32:24.many of the economies will see ourselves slipped forward for a
:32:24. > :32:27.month and go forward for a month. It looks like it will take a longer
:32:27. > :32:34.time to recover. What sort of growth can you predict for
:32:34. > :32:44.Scotland? As usual, we were very low last year, it is hard to
:32:44. > :32:48.
:32:48. > :32:51.predict. Somewhere between no gross and one % growth for UK economies.
:32:51. > :32:57.What does that mean for Scotland? We need to be very careful about
:32:57. > :33:01.the kind of policies we set. I am very pleased the Government has
:33:01. > :33:06.continued to spend on capital, because the more we can do on
:33:06. > :33:11.capital investment, the more we can go against the trend of being
:33:11. > :33:16.downward in other business areas. The private sector has also been
:33:16. > :33:21.very good at creating jobs compared to the rest of the UK, which
:33:21. > :33:24.offsets some of the drop in the public sector. Do you think the
:33:24. > :33:34.referendum question is affecting business confidence? I am not
:33:34. > :33:36.
:33:36. > :33:40.getting that from the people like Dr. -- people I talk to. The
:33:40. > :33:48.concerns are more about the rest of Europe, the euro, those are causing
:33:49. > :33:54.uncertainty. I have had no one -- I have not had any body suggesting
:33:54. > :34:03.the referendum is one of the things that is high on their list. Could
:34:03. > :34:12.it affect the credit rating of the UK? I would be surprised. They are
:34:12. > :34:18.much more concerned with getting the economy back to normal.
:34:18. > :34:23.have said in the past that full fiscal autonomy would actually
:34:23. > :34:28.deliver less revenue because of the depressed tax base. Is that still
:34:28. > :34:35.your opinion? It is not clear to me that that would be the case. Some
:34:35. > :34:40.of it depends on the negotiations of the oil revenue. Also, Scotland
:34:40. > :34:50.has done rather well in the Foreign Investment a rear in the last few
:34:50. > :34:54.
:34:54. > :35:02.months, with companies like Amazon moving in. Do you support
:35:02. > :35:08.independence? I do. Can we discuss in some detail what you think a
:35:08. > :35:11.post-independence Scottish economy would look like? I was speaking to
:35:11. > :35:18.someone the other night who was very concerned about figuring out
:35:18. > :35:23.whether you would be better off or worse off financially. My answer to
:35:23. > :35:29.that was, if you are asking me over the next 15 or 20 years how the
:35:29. > :35:34.economy will do, the answer is nobody knows. What we do know is we
:35:34. > :35:38.have strong growing sectors in Scotland, a very stable population,
:35:38. > :35:42.one that is growing for the first time in a long time, so there is a
:35:42. > :35:48.lot more resources, we are successful at capturing inward
:35:48. > :35:53.investment, we have good plans about exports, and so I am
:35:53. > :36:03.confident that when left to our own devices, people at understanding we
:36:03. > :36:03.
:36:03. > :36:07.are standing on a Rome two feet. -- our own two feet. How important do
:36:07. > :36:11.you think the economy will be? think it will be more important
:36:11. > :36:19.than it should be. I would like to think people would like to make a
:36:19. > :36:25.decision based on whether they want to determine their own future. If
:36:25. > :36:28.we want to do those things, then we should be voting in that direction.
:36:28. > :36:33.The economy is that important. People worry about whether they
:36:34. > :36:38.will be OK and have a job. I understand those fears will stop I
:36:38. > :36:42.do not think they should be that nothing on the mind. -- I
:36:42. > :36:52.understand those fears, but I do not think they should be the only
:36:52. > :36:55.thing. If we look at the Stirling, post-independence, is it could
:36:55. > :37:03.Europe to have the Bank of England dictating the interest rate for
:37:03. > :37:11.Scotland? If that was the decision that was made, and that would seem
:37:11. > :37:18.most logical, it is not ideal. You can look at other currency unions
:37:18. > :37:28.that have happened in the past, you can solve some of this via fiscal
:37:28. > :37:32.
:37:32. > :37:34.rules. Sit down and say we will abide by certain amount of debt.
:37:34. > :37:37.The last Council of Economic Advisers had suggested that this
:37:37. > :37:45.goal Commission would allow this to appear to rules that would mean we
:37:45. > :37:48.would not do anything that would drive down the wrong path. How many
:37:48. > :37:58.public sector jobs do you think will have to go if the Government
:37:58. > :38:00.
:38:00. > :38:05.is to have an appropriate economic policy? It will depend on this
:38:05. > :38:13.balance between pay restraint and how long you can do that. It is
:38:13. > :38:20.hard to keep people on a pay restraint for a long time.
:38:20. > :38:24.council tax wheeze should continue for no more than a year or more?
:38:24. > :38:31.would hope it does not have to go on for long time, but it is
:38:31. > :38:37.sensible to keep it as an assurance to people. For another year?
:38:38. > :38:47.that is what it takes. If we look at some of the recommendations he
:38:48. > :38:52.
:38:52. > :39:01.made, which ones should be revisit? If you could just list them.
:39:01. > :39:09.all those areas, I think... Just to clarify, what areas do you mean?
:39:09. > :39:14.Three personal care, bus travel, prescriptions. -- free personal
:39:14. > :39:18.care. The feeling of the Independent budget review was if
:39:18. > :39:21.you were looking at those, it was not a case of scrapping them, it
:39:21. > :39:28.was where there are those who can afford to pay for them should be
:39:28. > :39:36.invited to do that. It was off focusing on providing it for people
:39:37. > :39:41.who need it, and not people like me. That would be our advice. If we
:39:41. > :39:46.have to keep cutting, rather than taking those things away from the
:39:46. > :39:51.vulnerable, take a look at how those who are more fortunate can
:39:51. > :39:59.pay some of their share. Where is the evidence that he persuaded John
:39:59. > :40:06.Swinney to do anything he was going to do anyway? I can only talk to
:40:06. > :40:15.the last council. It had 10 meetings between 2007 and 2010.
:40:15. > :40:20.Over that period we made many recommendations to the government.
:40:20. > :40:28.They accepted 45 of those recommendations, which later
:40:28. > :40:32.appeared in the economic strategy and some of the Budget. Assuming we
:40:32. > :40:37.have the same leeway with this council, I fully expect we will
:40:37. > :40:41.have the same influence going forward. Having accepted this
:40:41. > :40:47.position, can you have a profile on the independence referendum? Would
:40:47. > :40:54.you want one? Not particularly! I am happy to do whatever people want
:40:54. > :41:00.me to do, and I am always happy to sit down with friends and talk to
:41:00. > :41:07.them about why that makes sense, but it is not one of those things.
:41:07. > :41:12.I am not a politician. Can you vote in the referendum? I can. I have
:41:12. > :41:17.the distinct privilege of paying taxes in two countries, the United
:41:17. > :41:26.States and the United Kingdom. I am on the electoral register and I am
:41:26. > :41:36.here half of the time. I call by. Crawford Beveridge there. -- I
:41:36. > :41:37.
:41:37. > :41:45.qualify. Joining me is hums a use of and Ken Macintosh. -- Humza
:41:45. > :41:51.Yousaf. This system of setting up the school rules, that would be
:41:51. > :41:55.dependent on the Bank of England. Is that satisfactory? It is an
:41:55. > :41:59.interesting argument. Crawford Beveridge seemed to be making the
:41:59. > :42:07.case on one side for independence, and on the other talking about
:42:07. > :42:15.interdependence of the economy. He was quite clear you cannot be that
:42:15. > :42:19.Independent these days. It is a very strange argument. He is saying
:42:19. > :42:24.we will prosper but we will get their main lever of power to
:42:24. > :42:34.another nation. That is assuming that the English would want us to
:42:34. > :42:36.
:42:36. > :42:42.use their currency. Why would they allow us to use it? We would have
:42:42. > :42:47.to ask their permission. We would not have to ask their permission.
:42:47. > :42:53.That is why George Osborne ended up backtracking. Crawford Beveridge
:42:53. > :43:03.actually makes the point very well. We have 40 currency unions across
:43:03. > :43:04.
:43:04. > :43:11.the world. Our currency is an interchangeable dynamic currency.
:43:12. > :43:21.People would still have a pound in their pocket. It is not about his
:43:22. > :43:28.face is on the Collins, on the power note. -- whose face is on the
:43:28. > :43:35.coin or pound note. You do not have the lever, the point is you will
:43:35. > :43:40.not have the currency and be discussion format. Even if you have
:43:40. > :43:49.a joint currency union, you still have the decision to make over
:43:49. > :43:55.corporation tax, welfare system, various other taxes. You still have
:43:56. > :44:01.that the choice over other aspects. That is what in the pen is is about,
:44:01. > :44:07.tried in, illegal war. This would be up for negotiation, that is the
:44:07. > :44:11.point. When it comes to independence, of course we will be
:44:11. > :44:17.negotiating. It is incorrect to say we would have to get permission.
:44:17. > :44:20.That is simply not true. I still do not understand. You say you would
:44:20. > :44:29.be independent because you want to control power, but you say you do
:44:29. > :44:35.not want this power. I just explained, being independent is the
:44:35. > :44:38.decision not having nuclear weapons, illegal war. Do you want economic
:44:38. > :44:47.independence, you're talking about having power over your tax system,
:44:47. > :44:53.welfare system, and when it comes to it, over 40 currency unions are
:44:53. > :44:59.extremely successful. The key thing here is devilish and gives you
:44:59. > :45:03.influence and control over your spending and some of your taxation.
:45:03. > :45:09.But there could be a question on the ballot about that. You do not
:45:09. > :45:15.need a question about that. You are remaining for the interview
:45:15. > :45:19.with Lord Wallace, but the Budget will be discussed in Holyrood on
:45:19. > :45:29.Wednesday. The you think it is sustainable to keep the council tax
:45:29. > :45:31.
:45:31. > :45:37.freeze? I think the council tax freeze is unsustainable. We
:45:37. > :45:47.actually lost 13,000 government jobs this year alone. Clearly if we
:45:47. > :45:55.continue we will lose more jobs. It is not sustainable on those terms,
:45:55. > :46:04.and I would welcome a far greater openness about that discussion.
:46:04. > :46:09.Compulsory redundancies? That is not a genuine argument. 200 Scott
:46:10. > :46:14.every day lose jobs, and if you ask them whether they were laid off
:46:14. > :46:24.compulsory -- via compulsory methods, it is a sham. It is a
:46:24. > :46:30.
:46:30. > :46:34.disguise. Let me come back on that, in the Labour manifesto, they were
:46:34. > :46:39.advocating a council tax freeze. To go back on that and say it is
:46:39. > :46:44.unsustainable is ridiculous. Ed Miliband has now said a pay freeze
:46:44. > :46:51.for public sector workers is absolutely the correct thing to do.
:46:51. > :46:56.Now Scottish Labour are saying it is not. We have given the SNP are
:46:56. > :47:04.support for two years because that was our election position, and they
:47:04. > :47:13.promised five years. When would you put it off? Iris was only for two
:47:13. > :47:18.years. -- Ours. It is no longer sustainable. The figures go up
:47:18. > :47:22.every year. I think you should allow councils the freedom to set
:47:22. > :47:30.their own tax, but the key to this is if you give them enough money,
:47:30. > :47:35.if he were to give them the subsidy to keep it down, they would. Labour
:47:35. > :47:44.introduce the council tax free in Glasgow before the SNP. Your policy
:47:44. > :47:48.would be to end the council tax free. Would you cut the rise?
:47:48. > :47:51.SNP have got a policy in place of freezing council tax without giving
:47:51. > :48:01.councils the money to pay for it. We would give them the money and
:48:01. > :48:08.
:48:08. > :48:10.The former Lib Dem Deputy First Minister, and now Advocate General
:48:10. > :48:13.- Lord Wallace of Tankerness - threw himself into the political
:48:13. > :48:16.battle between the coalition and the SNP in Glasgow on Friday to
:48:16. > :48:26.reiterate Westminster's legal position on the referendum and his
:48:26. > :48:33.
:48:33. > :48:39.role. This is a matter of law. If you are an officer, law is your job.
:48:39. > :48:46.Under the Scotland Act, I have some statutory functions.
:48:46. > :48:50.The Advocate General is in our Edinburgh studio for us now. In at
:48:50. > :48:55.stressing this role that you have, it is supposed to be legal rather
:48:55. > :48:59.than political. If you're interested in purely legal terms,
:48:59. > :49:06.if your objective is to secure the competency of the referendum, you
:49:06. > :49:15.should have offered that protection without any conditions. Let us
:49:15. > :49:25.celebrate the two things. -- separate. I gave a your lecture.
:49:25. > :49:25.
:49:25. > :49:29.That is what I delivered. -- a law lecturer. I said that is why the
:49:29. > :49:39.Scottish Parliament doesn't have the competence to take forward the
:49:39. > :49:43.
:49:43. > :49:49.Bill, and the document sets out why the Government should also be fair
:49:49. > :49:58.and decisive. The argument I was putting forward was very much a
:49:58. > :50:05.legal one, but I of asleep support government policy. -- but I
:50:06. > :50:15.obviously support. Would to be obliged to challenge it through
:50:15. > :50:22.judicial review? That is a hypothetical situation. Is it part
:50:23. > :50:28.of your statutory role to challenge this? What is your position? If you
:50:28. > :50:34.look at section 33 of the Scotland Act, he will find the Attorney
:50:34. > :50:44.General, the Lord advocate and myself can each individually take a
:50:44. > :50:46.
:50:46. > :50:56.bill... Are you are obliged to?... Cannot take it to the Supreme Court.
:50:56. > :50:57.
:50:57. > :51:07.Every bill is overlooked that. -- every bill is looked that. Who can
:51:07. > :51:09.
:51:09. > :51:19.actually do this? There was a case last year which involved accident
:51:19. > :51:21.
:51:21. > :51:28.and insurance. Him coming to their decision, the Supreme Court
:51:28. > :51:34.indicated that what qualified people to have interest, will be
:51:34. > :51:38.much wider. That is the point are had been trying to make: We want to
:51:38. > :51:44.avoid that situation. The Scottish and UK governments would agree that
:51:44. > :51:49.an issue as important as this, the last thing we want to have is
:51:49. > :51:54.having these issues boiled down to a legal wrangle in court. If there
:51:54. > :52:02.is a way forward, we should be exploring that. I think we are
:52:02. > :52:09.making progress. What specifically? The Scottish government is not
:52:09. > :52:13.adverse to using a section 30 order, Mr Swinney said that the priority
:52:13. > :52:16.of the Scottish government was to have a single question, there has
:52:16. > :52:22.been a suggestion in the press today that the Scottish government
:52:22. > :52:29.might not be so insistent on extending to 16 and 17-year-olds,
:52:29. > :52:32.and we heard on Friday evening that the role of the electoral
:52:32. > :52:42.commission is one the Scottish government would be willing to
:52:42. > :52:50.accept. I think there is a lot to discuss. And nothing has been
:52:50. > :52:56.firmed up for you at this point? As we go into these discussions, can I
:52:56. > :53:01.ask you, how comfortable is it for you personally, as a federalist,
:53:01. > :53:07.someone who has signed his Scottish Claim of Right, someone who has
:53:07. > :53:17.campaigned all his life for federalism, how comfortable is it
:53:17. > :53:21.for you personally to oppose this on a referendum paper? Confusing
:53:21. > :53:28.two separate issues on a referendum pay-per- would lead to confusion.
:53:28. > :53:32.Therefore I think it would be better that we can actually decide
:53:32. > :53:40.the question which the Scottish National Party will put forward in
:53:40. > :53:50.his manifesto. Once that question is decided, I hope we will remain
:53:50. > :53:50.
:53:50. > :53:55.part of the UK. It will make it easier for us to go forward. I want
:53:55. > :54:03.to enhance the powers of the Scottish Parliament. It is easier
:54:03. > :54:08.to argue that case. Are you saying that to you signed the Scottish
:54:08. > :54:13.Claim of Right, but it is now your judgment that they are not smart
:54:13. > :54:19.enough to work out a referendum? That is not what I'm saying. I
:54:19. > :54:25.signed that Claim of Right. And that produced a blueprint for the
:54:25. > :54:34.Scottish Parliament. The Scottish people voted for that. That is the
:54:34. > :54:38.settlement we have a. Scottish people will have the opportunity to
:54:38. > :54:45.decide whether it they will wish to remain part of the United Kingdom
:54:45. > :54:50.or not. I hope that they do value feelings we have with the rest of
:54:50. > :54:55.the UK, and that we can move on to see how we can improve. Let us
:54:55. > :55:03.remember as well there is a Bill before Parliament this coming week
:55:03. > :55:06.which will enhance the powers of the Scottish Parliament as well.
:55:06. > :55:15.Simon Hughes has been saying there should be an English Parliament. Do
:55:15. > :55:21.you agree? I am agnostic as to whether it the English have one
:55:21. > :55:26.Parliament or not. I note that if we are looking at decentralisation,
:55:26. > :55:33.I have never been persuaded that an English Parliament would give you
:55:33. > :55:41.that degree of decentralisation. I will let my English colleagues
:55:41. > :55:51.worked a tub. You don't see a little bit of a paradox there?
:55:51. > :55:58.work that out a. We are talking about a settlement agreed by the
:55:58. > :56:04.Scottish people in 1997, where some things were resolved -- devolved to
:56:04. > :56:09.Westminster, and others at the to the Scottish Parliament. I am
:56:09. > :56:13.heartened by the progress there has been made. That is a sensible way
:56:13. > :56:20.forward, and we should not end up with these matters being dragged
:56:20. > :56:27.through the courts. The referendum goes through the civil process, but
:56:27. > :56:37.can I transfer now to the criminal process. I am talking about cases
:56:37. > :56:47.ending up in the Supreme Court. Lord Hamilton says "they should
:56:47. > :56:49.
:56:49. > :56:55.have the same process as the High Court". You said that you remain to
:56:55. > :57:03.be persuaded that that. Why? I had a consultation of this last year,
:57:03. > :57:08.and in terms of the response as we got, the views were expressed that
:57:08. > :57:13.they should not be that certification. When Lord McCluskey
:57:13. > :57:21.consulted on that, there was a wide range of opinion which said that
:57:21. > :57:28.certification it should not be there. There our legal issues here,
:57:28. > :57:34.but I give evidence to the Scottish Parliament that the reason it was
:57:34. > :57:39.brought in, when a right of appeal to the House of Lords in 1961
:57:39. > :57:46.criminal matters was introduced, it was for purely administrative
:57:46. > :57:53.reasons. No one is suggesting that the Supreme Court, on a narrow
:57:53. > :58:00.issue of whether a -- own appeal should go that way, we will have
:58:00. > :58:06.this debate in the House of Lords. Lord McCluskey has tabled
:58:06. > :58:09.amendments. I will give proper consideration to the further
:58:09. > :58:17.representations letter from the Lord President, and I can
:58:18. > :58:24.anticipate that the debate will be well informed. The Government does
:58:24. > :58:30.not guarantee a majority either. It is a genuine that legal issue, and
:58:30. > :58:39.they are different views from legal opinion on this. We will have a
:58:39. > :58:44.very healthy debate. Let me just ask you - the Lord President is
:58:44. > :58:54.saying this is an appropriate way to go. He is also saying "we will
:58:54. > :58:55.
:58:55. > :58:57.do as Lord McCluskey be recommended a". Are you concerned that the
:58:57. > :59:07.Scottish bench will block cases that should be referred to the
:59:07. > :59:08.
:59:08. > :59:14.Supreme Court? -- as Lord McCluskey recommended. There is a genuine
:59:15. > :59:21.scope here for debate. That will take place in the House of Lords.
:59:21. > :59:30.But we are not comparing like with like. In England and Wales, it is
:59:30. > :59:40.the whole criminal justice system that is no doubt, in terms of
:59:40. > :59:40.
:59:40. > :59:45.Scottish issues, is the apex. There would be an appeal to the House of
:59:45. > :59:52.Lords, so we are not comparing like with like.
:59:52. > :00:02.Still with me are the MSPs Humza Yousaf and Ken Macintosh. Let us
:00:02. > :00:12.pick up this idea of an English Parliament. What you think of that?
:00:12. > :00:18.I thought that the paradoxes were spot on. He said that those north
:00:18. > :00:24.of the border should not be commenting on an English Parliament.
:00:24. > :00:28.Yet, he is more than content to have Westminster colleagues
:00:29. > :00:36.interfering. I think English people should have their own Parliament
:00:36. > :00:40.and representation, they are a very proud nation. Do you think there is
:00:40. > :00:50.a stage in this process in which people south of the border should
:00:50. > :00:53.
:00:53. > :01:00.be consulted? The UK government and Parliament will have to make a
:01:00. > :01:10.decision, because legally, the decision rests with them. They will
:01:10. > :01:13.
:01:13. > :01:19.have to vote on it. As to the decision, it is a Scottish one.
:01:19. > :01:26.Lib Dems are saying there has to be a process in which there is some
:01:26. > :01:36.reflection of what is happening in England. At the time of devolution,
:01:36. > :01:37.
:01:37. > :01:47.English people were consulted. rejected the Scottish model. They
:01:47. > :01:54.
:01:54. > :02:00.The think the SNP should join in? Labour has been arguing that Alex
:02:00. > :02:03.Salmond has been reluctant to engage with the other parties bus-
:02:03. > :02:13.stop the has asked the Prime Minister to see in six or seven
:02:13. > :02:14.
:02:14. > :02:18.times. The Scottish Labour will get involved in the consultation that
:02:18. > :02:28.will be launched on Wednesday. One top of that, I am sure when the
:02:28. > :02:28.
:02:28. > :02:35.referendum is held there will be plenty of talks. What stage are we
:02:35. > :02:42.at here? I do not believe there are in for more formal talks. The
:02:42. > :02:49.opposition parties are in a position where would like to reach
:02:49. > :02:57.out. We would like to embrace civic Scotland, the trade unions, in
:02:57. > :03:03.discussions. We want to involve everybody. Why, if you will not
:03:03. > :03:11.allow at devolution Max question. This is about independence. They
:03:11. > :03:17.were not elected to deliver devolution Max. If you are going to
:03:18. > :03:24.listen to civic society, at the Church of Scotland committees, you
:03:24. > :03:28.have already made up your mind. The SNP says very clearly are
:03:28. > :03:38.questioned his independence. But we will listen to civic society. They
:03:38. > :03:40.
:03:40. > :03:43.are asking to discuss the devilish and Max. -- devolution max. We have
:03:44. > :03:51.always supported abolition. We do not need to discuss it with anybody.
:03:51. > :04:00.The only thing we have to agree on is whether we should be independent.
:04:00. > :04:05.You are not sure whether you will get away with it.
:04:05. > :04:10.Do you not get any sense at all that the electorate are signing up
:04:10. > :04:14.for this? Can I just say, we are discussing this, the Scotland Bill
:04:14. > :04:21.has not gone through yet. It delivers a whole lot of new powers
:04:21. > :04:25.for Scotland. All I'm saying is it has not even been implemented yet.
:04:25. > :04:29.We do not even have a date for the referendum, and you are talking
:04:29. > :04:35.about post the referendum that we do not know the date of, what the
:04:35. > :04:40.questions might be. I am sorry, but the only people bringing up
:04:40. > :04:45.independence are the SNP, so why don't we resolve that? Then we
:04:45. > :04:51.could have a decent discussion about evolution. You would do very
:04:51. > :04:57.well to listen to Malcolm Chisholm, who says you need to get off the
:04:57. > :05:02.Scotland Bill as quickly as possible.
:05:02. > :05:10.Those comments were not met with a slammed door. Do you think there's
:05:10. > :05:17.a chink of light going into this question? It is so unimportant
:05:18. > :05:25.compared with the issue of independence. We just had terrible
:05:25. > :05:32.economic news this week, about unemployment. We cannot even get at
:05:32. > :05:38.clear statement from the SNP on their policy. Talking about that
:05:38. > :05:46.terrible news, Ed Miliband said the Tory cuts are appropriate. Did he
:05:46. > :05:52.top two Joanne landmark before he said that? -- did he talk to Johann
:05:52. > :05:59.Lamont? I think these are difficult times and back pain has to be
:05:59. > :06:05.shared. We are not unrealistic about this. So you think the cuts
:06:05. > :06:12.are appropriate and proportionate? That is not what we said. We want
:06:12. > :06:19.to address unemployment first and foremost. They are not delivering a
:06:20. > :06:24.budget that creates jobs. Thank you very much.
:06:24. > :06:30.Who will get a vote in the independence referendum? There is a
:06:30. > :06:36.debate about 16 and 17 year-olds. Both governments seem to agree that
:06:36. > :06:41.a system based on residency should be used. That would mean thousands
:06:41. > :06:45.of Scots outside Scotland would not get to vote and could also exclude
:06:45. > :06:49.some Scottish soldiers based in England.
:06:49. > :06:55.Gordon Henderson is Scottish, his wife is English and has lived in 10
:06:55. > :06:58.years. They will both get aboard in the independence referendum, but
:06:58. > :07:02.Gordon's Scottish brother and sister living in England might not.
:07:02. > :07:08.They would like to vote on the future of their country. I think it
:07:08. > :07:18.should be extended to Scott living outside Scotland. I think it should
:07:18. > :07:19.
:07:19. > :07:23.be extended to all people in the There are separate systems for the
:07:23. > :07:31.Scottish and Westminster elections. The local government and parliament
:07:31. > :07:36.franchise is mainly based on franchise is mainly based on
:07:36. > :07:46.residency. The general election is largely the same, except EU
:07:46. > :07:48.
:07:48. > :07:57.The local government and Scottish parliamentary franchise was used in
:07:57. > :08:01.the 1997 devilish in referendum. -- devolution. The government's
:08:01. > :08:05.largely agree about who should Ford in a Scottish referendum. They say
:08:05. > :08:10.it is the same as those who should boat in a Scottish Government
:08:10. > :08:20.election. That is determined primarily by presidents and bike
:08:20. > :08:24.
:08:24. > :08:32.One man has launched a campaign to allow people to vote who are living
:08:32. > :08:36.outside Scotland. If I was living in New York, living in France, why
:08:36. > :08:44.can I vote for my Scottish MP yet am being denied the board for the
:08:44. > :08:48.biggest question of all on independence? -- the vote.
:08:48. > :08:54.campaign was raised in the Scottish Parliament by a Labour MP. But the
:08:54. > :08:57.SNP say it would be too complicated to extend it? If the system is
:08:57. > :09:07.based on residency, what would it mean for Scottish troops based in
:09:07. > :09:08.
:09:08. > :09:13.England? Members of the public eye usually registered where their
:09:13. > :09:19.Barack start. This is probably the time to think how the referendum
:09:19. > :09:25.affects your long-term pretensions, will it increase or diminish your
:09:25. > :09:28.intention to retire to Scotland when you leave the armed forces?
:09:29. > :09:36.Will you consider registering in the constituency where you have a
:09:36. > :09:44.connection? The electoral commission says the service
:09:44. > :09:51.personnel have already collected two bought in England. -- elected
:09:51. > :09:59.to vote. The burning question for people in Hamilton College is
:09:59. > :10:03.whether people of the rate will get to vote. The SNP are in favour. --
:10:03. > :10:09.People of they age. The coalition government do not want to allow
:10:09. > :10:18.them the board. It could be a sticking point between Holyrood and
:10:18. > :10:25.Westminster. Opinion is divided. do not know what I tipped that
:10:25. > :10:33.we're not got a laugh about it. -- we do not know enough about it.
:10:33. > :10:38.think we should be allowed to have our say. Legislation paving the way
:10:38. > :10:45.for the referendum will ultimately decide who gets the vote. Those
:10:45. > :10:48.Scot living outside the country will need to wait a bit longer.
:10:48. > :10:53.The Westminster government is thinking of introducing a tax on
:10:53. > :11:00.obesity. Our reporter has been to Drumchapel to investigate whether
:11:00. > :11:08.putting a levy on junk food could actually changed our reading habits.
:11:08. > :11:12.-- change our eating habits. With 33 % of Scots now obese, public
:11:12. > :11:18.health experts are warning that unless it is tackled, obesity could
:11:18. > :11:26.cost Scotland �3 billion per year. If we do nothing, the evidence is
:11:26. > :11:31.very strong that obesity will increase substantially. To protect
:11:31. > :11:40.the public and their health service, Denmark has slapped our flat tax on
:11:40. > :11:50.food such as milk, cheese and beats up. -- a fat tax on pizza. Will it
:11:50. > :11:52.
:11:52. > :11:56.work here? It will oblige manufacturers to change the recipes.
:11:56. > :12:01.Here in Drumchapel community centre, locals are taking part in a cookery
:12:01. > :12:03.programme designed to change their attitude to food. Despite a range
:12:03. > :12:10.of healthy-eating initiatives, Glasgow as some of the highest
:12:10. > :12:17.death rates from heart disease in the world. Do the women here think
:12:17. > :12:27.attacks would help? If a bag of crisps was to rise, it would not
:12:27. > :12:29.
:12:29. > :12:39.discourage me. It is sometimes cheaper to buy an active pizzas. --
:12:39. > :12:41.
:12:41. > :12:45.buy a pizza. It will not solve the problem. They need education.
:12:45. > :12:49.they are taxing the junk food, they should use the money to subsidise
:12:49. > :12:55.healthier food. The Scottish Government is working with the food
:12:55. > :13:01.industry business to cut obesity. One of the local GPs believes more
:13:01. > :13:07.needs to be done to tackle the bigger picture. It would be an
:13:07. > :13:16.assault on the poor. The UK Government is considering
:13:16. > :13:21.introducing this tax. Is our love affair meaning we cannot afford to
:13:21. > :13:31.not take action? With me is Amanda Hamilton and
:13:31. > :13:31.
:13:31. > :13:41.Brenda Sowny. Thank you for coming in. Would an obesity tax work?
:13:41. > :13:43.
:13:43. > :13:49.on its own. It would actually make people who live very poor, it could
:13:49. > :13:57.net the work if there was other things in place, but not overnight.
:13:57. > :14:03.-- maybe work. The Danish are saying there is no disadvantage but
:14:04. > :14:11.there are less of a margin between salary levels. Is it a problem that
:14:11. > :14:21.they are cheaper? Education, people do not understand how bad this book
:14:21. > :14:22.
:14:22. > :14:31.can affect you. If they do not have money to do a big shock, -- big
:14:31. > :14:39.shop, they are going to buy what is on their doorstep. In theory this
:14:39. > :14:47.is fantastic, but in practice people cannot afford it. We also
:14:48. > :14:57.need to attack sugar to make a genuine impact. I also think those
:14:58. > :14:58.
:14:58. > :15:03.working on the ground know that it cannot work in isolation. It needs
:15:03. > :15:07.to be ring-fenced. We need to do something bold, we are the fattest
:15:07. > :15:14.nation in Europe. Whatever we are doing is not enough. It is sending
:15:15. > :15:20.the message that food manufacturers need to step up to the mark. Nobody
:15:20. > :15:30.advertises bananas and apples. It is carbohydrate and refined,
:15:30. > :15:34.
:15:34. > :15:43.Do you think that it is slightly patronising to say to certain
:15:43. > :15:48.sections of society "don't eat that". There have been a lot of
:15:48. > :15:58.campaigns. I think it is wrong to say "changed the way you are
:15:58. > :16:02.
:16:02. > :16:07.living". If they can get access to fresh fruit and vegetables, then it
:16:07. > :16:12.is a wrong to presume that somebody living on a low income is obese,
:16:12. > :16:17.and they need to change their way of life. You are running a project
:16:17. > :16:23.in which three fruit and vegetables were being distributed. Do you have
:16:23. > :16:31.concerns that in this current economic climate, that is the sort
:16:31. > :16:35.of very practical, basic initiative that could be hit? We have had huge
:16:35. > :16:43.funding cuts in the last three years, it so we do not give out
:16:43. > :16:53.freak fruit and vegetables. So we give out low-cost crude and
:16:53. > :16:59.
:16:59. > :17:05.vegetables. -- fruit and vegetables. One supermarket is costly, so
:17:05. > :17:14.people do use it. It also helps in different ways, such as a
:17:14. > :17:22.volunteering. There are a lot of different things it does. The
:17:22. > :17:31.Government have not withdrawn putting fresh fruit in. Part of
:17:31. > :17:41.this money could be used to fund this. You cannot say a backward we
:17:41. > :17:43.
:17:43. > :17:53.are in centre rising health"and then raise the money elsewhere. --
:17:53. > :17:56.you cannot say we are in centre rising health. It is people that
:17:56. > :18:01.are giving up their time, like yourself, that one need to be
:18:01. > :18:11.supported more. It has got to be in schools, it has to become more
:18:11. > :18:16.
:18:16. > :18:26.important in Scotland. It will only get worse. If you look and economic
:18:26. > :18:30.
:18:31. > :18:38.problem, or why elect somebody already impoverished? It is only a
:18:38. > :18:44.downward spiral. When we look at the most basic responses, it in --
:18:44. > :18:53.is at his basic as cookery classes in schools? I worked on a panel
:18:53. > :19:02.recently talking about home economics. The Cross family impact,
:19:02. > :19:06.that we have seen, I was saying, why not have sex at up a bit? I
:19:06. > :19:11.think we should engage with children in a much more modern way.
:19:11. > :19:19.Why not incentive as health end a different way? I have got three
:19:19. > :19:29.children I am feeding at home, and you cannot say"come on children,
:19:29. > :19:32.
:19:32. > :19:37.step up". It is about linking the different parts together. They do
:19:37. > :19:41.both very much. And now here's the lunchtime news
:19:41. > :19:44.with Andrew Kerr. Good afternoon. The Deputy Prime
:19:44. > :19:47.Minister has called on the Scottish Government to provide basic answers
:19:47. > :19:49.on their plans for an independent Scotland. Speaking on the BBC's
:19:49. > :19:52.Andrew Marr Show, Nick Clegg rejected calls for an English
:19:52. > :19:57.Parliament made by the Liberal Democrats' Deputy leader, Simon
:19:57. > :20:00.Hughes. The Scottish Government says details of the referendum will
:20:00. > :20:07.be released on Wednesday, but Mr Clegg says there are fundamental
:20:07. > :20:12.issues about independence itself. At a time when the central argument
:20:12. > :20:16.is about the wisdom of wrenching Scotland out of the UK, let us
:20:16. > :20:26.focus on that debate, and let us get the SNP to provide basic
:20:26. > :20:27.
:20:27. > :20:30.answers. They would be able to provide answers, and that is what
:20:30. > :20:33.we should focus on. Police in Inverness searching for a
:20:33. > :20:37.missing teenage boy have found a body. Scott Campbell, who is 16,
:20:37. > :20:40.was last seen in the city in the early hours of yesterday morning.
:20:40. > :20:41.The body has not yet been formally identified, but Scott's family have
:20:41. > :20:44.been made aware of the circumstances.
:20:44. > :20:47.Scientists at the Beatson Institute in Glasgow say they have created
:20:47. > :20:50.the first 3D image of a protein which protects against cancer. If
:20:50. > :20:54.the protein stops functioning properly, cells divide too often,
:20:54. > :20:58.which can lead to the disease. The team hope their images will assist
:20:58. > :21:08.the development of new drugs. Now let's take a look at the
:21:08. > :21:14.
:21:14. > :21:18.A colt, breezy afternoon. A lot of dry weather across the country,
:21:18. > :21:25.particularly across central, southern and eastern Scotland. Some
:21:25. > :21:33.showers pulling him across the northern isles. These are showers
:21:33. > :21:38.are fewer than it yesterday. Temperatures peaking at 7-8 Celsius.
:21:38. > :21:44.That is your forecast. That's all for now. Our next
:21:44. > :21:47.bulletin is at 18:50pm, but for now, Thanks, Andrew. Now, in a moment,
:21:47. > :21:57.we'll be discussing the big events coming up this week at Holyrood,
:21:57. > :21:59.
:21:59. > :22:05.but first, let's take a look back at the week in sixty seconds.
:22:05. > :22:15.People in Scotland are out of work. The Finance Secretary calls for a
:22:15. > :22:16.
:22:16. > :22:20.new cook wide job summit. -- for a UK-wide.
:22:20. > :22:29.The brakes will be included in these hours, and although the
:22:29. > :22:36.ambulance service remains committed to ensuring staff are rested, all
:22:36. > :22:41.teams will be available to attend emergency calls.
:22:41. > :22:46.The Lib Dems say Scotland's top civil servant is cheerleading for
:22:46. > :22:56.the SNP. Ministers say he has acted within the Civil Service code of
:22:56. > :23:00.conduct. The downfall of Labour's social media, Tom Harris, as he
:23:00. > :23:04.compared Alex Salmond to Hitler was an unhelpful describe the action.
:23:04. > :23:06.On Wednesday, as the First Minster takes to his feet to unveil the
:23:06. > :23:09.details of the SNP's consultation on the referendum, it's a fair
:23:09. > :23:13.guess the press gallery will be a bit fuller than normal.
:23:13. > :23:16.This week, we have invited a couple of ex MSPs on to give us their take
:23:16. > :23:25.on the week ahead. We're joined by the former Labour MSP, Des McNulty,
:23:25. > :23:30.and for the SNP, Shirley Anne Somerville. His life outside that
:23:30. > :23:38.building refreshing, enjoyable? is interesting to not be part of it,
:23:38. > :23:43.I have to save. It is a lot more friendly! If we look at what is
:23:43. > :23:48.coming up, we have got the discussion on the Budget coming up,
:23:48. > :23:56.and we have heard from Crawford Beveridge about the council tax. Do
:23:56. > :24:00.you think this phrase is sustainable,? I think we will have
:24:00. > :24:05.a situation where elections are coming up, the freeze has been
:24:05. > :24:09.geared towards those elections. Nobody wants to put tax up in
:24:09. > :24:13.advance of elections, but after that, councils will have very
:24:13. > :24:21.serious problems maintaining services, social care, education
:24:21. > :24:31.and so on. It will create a huge difficulties. Do you think people
:24:31. > :24:31.
:24:31. > :24:37.will be willing to pay for about �1 a week for social services?
:24:37. > :24:41.problem is the people with the biggest houses are gaining the most.
:24:42. > :24:47.I don't know Airth Sir Fred could win still has his house in the
:24:47. > :24:55.Grange, but he would be a great beneficiary. But other people in my
:24:55. > :25:03.constituency would get nothing back. In that way, it is unfair. Should
:25:03. > :25:13.so Fred keep his knighthood? don't think so. I think he deserves
:25:13. > :25:14.
:25:14. > :25:21.to have some pay back. Looking at it from the outside, do you think
:25:21. > :25:26.this is sustainable in the longer term? It was sustainable in the
:25:26. > :25:31.last Parliament when I was an MSP. It is a fully funded by the
:25:31. > :25:37.Scottish government to local councils. What has caused the
:25:37. > :25:40.problems is the Scottish Grand being cut by Westminster. We need
:25:41. > :25:46.to look at why social services are under pressure, and why people are
:25:46. > :25:48.losing their jobs and the public sector. That is not because of a
:25:48. > :25:53.council tax freeze, it is because the Scottish government does not
:25:53. > :25:59.have enough money any more, because that has been cut by Westminster.
:25:59. > :26:05.When you look at the no compulsory redundancies, all that happens, we
:26:05. > :26:09.are now told, it is a third this section of people go because they
:26:09. > :26:15.have chances to go elsewhere, and then what is left, there can be
:26:15. > :26:20.huge gaps in provisions if you are running that approach. Do you
:26:20. > :26:27.accept that these redundancies does not give us the best structure for
:26:27. > :26:30.providing public services? It is very important for the families
:26:30. > :26:34.throughout Scotland. You have to look at it why the Government is
:26:34. > :26:37.wanting to do this. We need to protect the families in the public
:26:37. > :26:42.sector to ensure at we are not saying people hit even harder by
:26:42. > :26:46.what is happening. People are going through difficult things with their
:26:46. > :26:51.families, and at this package does not go through, people would like
:26:51. > :26:55.to see that - they want to see the Government protecting people's jobs,
:26:55. > :27:00.they don't want to see the Government adding to unemployment.
:27:00. > :27:05.That is why it is such a critical issue for us. If we look at the
:27:05. > :27:09.referendum question, and the wider view on this, how are the different
:27:09. > :27:19.parties are playing this? I they appropriately representing the
:27:19. > :27:19.
:27:19. > :27:27.views of the people? I think we are at just the start of the prose is.
:27:27. > :27:32.Might view is that Alex Salmond is a gambler. He wants to put forward
:27:32. > :27:38.the single question on independence, but he also wants a question in
:27:38. > :27:46.there third allows them to push a different issue forward. The fair
:27:46. > :27:53.thing to do is to have a simple referendum. Yes or no to
:27:53. > :27:57.independence. What Alex Salmond needs to do is explain to people
:27:57. > :28:02.what that means in terms of the constitutional status of Scotland,
:28:02. > :28:07.or what will happen in terms of currency, what happens to big
:28:07. > :28:17.companies like RBS and other companies in Scotland who, if they
:28:17. > :28:17.
:28:17. > :28:22.were to remain Scottish, would need to be bailed out. These are big
:28:22. > :28:27.questions. Alex Salmond needs to explain the answers to those.
:28:27. > :28:37.Clegg is also saying that they know the questions, but not the answer
:28:37. > :28:38.
:28:38. > :28:43.is. Is that there? No. I find it strange that it is fair to not ask
:28:43. > :28:49.the people a question. People want a government who listens to
:28:49. > :28:56.different opinions about there. The SNP have said their first option is
:28:56. > :29:00.independence. That is what I want as an individual. If there is a
:29:00. > :29:06.boys' of opinion about there that wants to see a different question,
:29:06. > :29:12.then surely you should see a government that listens to that. --
:29:12. > :29:19.voice of the opinion. I thought that was what democracy was about.
:29:19. > :29:23.It could be a union safety net as well? If you wanted to go down a
:29:23. > :29:31.route of debating how you extend devolution, there is a perfectly
:29:31. > :29:37.legitimate way to do that. You need to work your way through what that
:29:37. > :29:47.actually means. The problem is that Birt Alex Salmond is trying to tie
:29:47. > :29:53.it into his independence referendum. He has tried to have it both ways.
:29:53. > :29:59.Should there be an English Parliament? That is a question up
:29:59. > :30:09.to the English people themselves. I had we get an opportunity for the
:30:09. > :30:10.