:00:33. > :00:36.Afternoon, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics.
:00:36. > :00:40.The Prime Minister insists this morning he is at one with Health
:00:40. > :00:45.Secretary Andrew Lansley over the troubled NHS reform. But is the
:00:45. > :00:49.rest of the Cabinet? Eric Pickles tells us in our Top Story.
:00:49. > :00:52.As Greece suffers and Syria bleeds, where does Labour stand on the big
:00:52. > :00:56.foreign policy issues of the day? Shadow Foreign Secretary Douglas
:00:56. > :00:59.Alexander joins us for the Sunday Interview.
:00:59. > :01:01.And with the Murdoch empire reeling from yet more high-profile arrests
:01:01. > :01:11.at the Sun, we're joined by the media tycoon's chief tormentor,
:01:11. > :01:18.
:01:18. > :01:21.Labour MP Tom Watson. On Sunday politics in Scotland, or
:01:21. > :01:25.we will be speaking to the Scott and others about those referendum
:01:25. > :01:28.negotiations tomorrow. And with St Valentine's Day coming up, what are
:01:29. > :01:38.the political chat up lines to sweep you off your feet and what
:01:39. > :01:39.
:01:39. > :27:03.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1524 seconds
:27:03. > :27:07.has to running in the opposite And Fri did not claim that. That is
:27:07. > :27:14.slightly wrong. He would have known that because it was in the public
:27:14. > :27:18.domain. Parliament give its... For most people, it was not in the
:27:18. > :27:22.public domain. I doubt if anybody would do that now, given the
:27:22. > :27:26.climate of fear. I am certain they would do that now.
:27:26. > :27:29.If I was fiddling my expenses, every tabloid newspaper would be on
:27:29. > :27:33.it like a shot. To be all right to pay a Commons
:27:33. > :27:38.official to do so? There is a public interest in all
:27:38. > :27:42.of these. There is a public interest defence for hacking a
:27:42. > :27:47.phone due to the level of seriousness.
:27:47. > :27:51.Would you like to see Rupert Murdoch dispose of his remaining
:27:52. > :27:55.newspaper and depart these shores? I would like Rupert Murdoch to
:27:55. > :27:59.stand up for clean investigated journalism and I would like him to
:27:59. > :28:04.clean up what went on in News International.
:28:04. > :28:14.The seed and wanted a sell-out? I think that is down to new score?
:28:14. > :28:20.I just want him to take responsibility. He is flying into
:28:20. > :28:24.London this week and has to take his share of responsibility. If
:28:24. > :28:34.people are charged as a result, is he a fit and proper person to hold
:28:34. > :28:34.
:28:34. > :28:39.the sky licence. I do not think he is. Off, have to
:28:39. > :28:43.apply a test to him, but over many years, wrong doing took place. He
:28:43. > :28:46.is the boss of the company and he is responsible for corporate
:28:46. > :28:49.governance. He is not a fit and proper person to run a television
:28:49. > :28:53.company under the rules as they stand.
:28:53. > :28:57.When it comes to paying the police or other public officials, this is
:28:57. > :29:02.not confined to Rupert Murdoch's papers and this practice has been
:29:02. > :29:06.prevalent across Fleet Street. A everyone tells me that. The only
:29:06. > :29:10.evidence that I have seen personally is what went on at News
:29:10. > :29:18.International. Clearly, we have to judge an inquiry that can do that.
:29:18. > :29:22.How did we get here? It is Rupert Murdoch who appoints these big
:29:22. > :29:26.institutions of national newspapers of repute. He is responsible for
:29:26. > :29:30.the personnel but allow these things to happen. He must take
:29:30. > :29:35.responsibility for it. So you do not rely did could be
:29:35. > :29:42.happening elsewhere? I do not know.
:29:42. > :29:46.You're watching the Sunday politics. Good afternoon and welcome to
:29:46. > :29:49.Sunday Politics Scotland. Coming up on the programme...
:29:49. > :29:53.The Scotland Office Minister David Mundell is with us ahead of the
:29:53. > :29:57.referendum negotiations tomorrow. How much longer can the talking go
:29:57. > :30:00.What are the chances of getting a job these days if you're young and
:30:00. > :30:03.Scottish? Are the politicians' youth employment strategies
:30:03. > :30:06.working? Why new legislation to end
:30:06. > :30:16.homelessness by 2012 could make it more difficult for people to find a
:30:16. > :30:17.
:30:17. > :30:22.permanent home. We are none prioritised due to being single and
:30:22. > :30:29.homeless. We have to grin and bear it. The lack of housing is unreal.
:30:29. > :30:32.And from Bartlett's Whitehouse to Salmond's Scotland. The West Wing's
:30:32. > :30:42.Toby Zeigler tells us what our politicians can learn from the US
:30:42. > :30:45.
:30:45. > :30:50.when it comes to persuading voters. If the Scottish politicians were to
:30:50. > :30:58.watch the American campaigns right now, at hopefully at opposing sides
:30:58. > :31:03.will learn it is not necessary to get so negative. It is ultimately a
:31:03. > :31:05.destructive factor. They are warming up in their
:31:05. > :31:08.respective corners and round-one of the referendum negotiations get
:31:08. > :31:10.underway tomorrow when the the First Minister meets the Scottish
:31:10. > :31:13.Secretary Michael Moore in Edinburgh. There could be a round
:31:13. > :31:17.two later in the week with the Prime Minister. The main sticking
:31:17. > :31:20.points seem to be: one or two questions, and should 16 and 17-
:31:20. > :31:27.year-olds get to vote. We spoke to Nicola Sturgeon earlier and she
:31:28. > :31:32.told us that tomorrow's meeting is a welcome step forward. I think
:31:32. > :31:36.there is no broad consensus in Scotland about the timing of the
:31:36. > :31:41.referendum. We look forward to hearing views about the questions
:31:41. > :31:45.that might be in that referendum and on issues such as to 16-year-
:31:45. > :31:51.old and 17 year olds have the right to vote. The sooner we can get
:31:51. > :31:54.beyond the issues of protest -- process and into the issue of
:31:54. > :32:04.substance, which is why Scotland would be better off with an
:32:04. > :32:06.
:32:06. > :32:09.independent country, the better. We asked for an SNP Minister to
:32:09. > :32:12.speak to us, but nobody was available.
:32:12. > :32:19.In our Millbank studio, we have the Conservative MP and Scotland Office
:32:19. > :32:24.Minister, David Mundell. Will the Prime Minister the up later this
:32:24. > :32:28.week to talk to the First Minister? The Prime Minister said he might be
:32:28. > :32:32.in Scotland soon because he is the Prime Minister of the whole United
:32:32. > :32:37.Kingdom and does come to Scotland on a regular basis. If he is here,
:32:37. > :32:41.he will be speaking with the First Minister. But the discussions in
:32:41. > :32:44.relation to the referendum will essentially be conducted by the
:32:44. > :32:49.Scotland Office with the Scottish Government. That process is
:32:49. > :32:54.starting tomorrow. I do not expect that tomorrow will be the final and
:32:54. > :32:58.conclusive discussion on this issue, but it is the start of a positive
:32:58. > :33:02.process where we can get the detail of the referendum sorted out and
:33:02. > :33:07.for once, I actually agree with Nicola Sturgeon. We need to get on
:33:07. > :33:13.to the substance of why a Scotland is better off in Britain.
:33:13. > :33:19.How much longer could this drag on for?
:33:19. > :33:23.I hope that it can be concluded as quickly as possible. I think we
:33:23. > :33:27.have made great progress in the last few weeks, because at the
:33:27. > :33:32.start of the year, we knew nothing about the SNP Government's
:33:32. > :33:36.proposals for the referendum. We have a deeper, detailed suggestion.
:33:36. > :33:40.The major step forward, an acknowledgement that there has to
:33:40. > :33:45.be a legal basis for the referendum and that can only be with the
:33:45. > :33:49.involvement of the UK Government. Now it, we need to get the details
:33:49. > :33:52.sorted out and tomorrow's discussions will move that forward.
:33:52. > :33:56.What are the lines in the sand for you?
:33:56. > :34:01.We have always said that we want the referendum to be de Gaulle,
:34:01. > :34:06.fair and decisive. There is an acceptance that to be legal, it
:34:07. > :34:10.must involve the UK Government parts. Fairness clearly involves
:34:10. > :34:14.the Electoral Commission and not necessarily changing the rules
:34:14. > :34:18.specifically for this referendum. That will be one of the issues
:34:18. > :34:21.around the franchise. It is an entirely separate debate as to
:34:21. > :34:25.whether 16 year-olds and 17 year- olds should have the vote or
:34:25. > :34:31.whether they should be given a vote for this specific issue.
:34:32. > :34:36.There is a line-up in the sand for 16 holes and 17 year-olds are
:34:36. > :34:41.voting. You want one question only, is that a deal breaker?
:34:41. > :34:46.I will not conduct the discussions on this programme. It is wrong to
:34:46. > :34:50.suggest that individual issues are deal breakers. It is clear that
:34:50. > :34:55.everyone, it would appear, apart from the First Minister, want a
:34:55. > :34:59.single question. That is the position of the coalition parties
:34:59. > :35:04.in the UK level. The First Minister says he wants a
:35:04. > :35:08.single question as well, but he wants to respond to said that
:35:08. > :35:12.Scotland who may want another question on the ballot paper or how
:35:12. > :35:18.it is defined. If there is a devilish and Max question on the
:35:18. > :35:23.ballot paper, will the Government in Westminster refused to recognise
:35:23. > :35:28.the legitimacy of the referendum? To a simple yes or no would answer
:35:28. > :35:32.The simple question for the people of Scotland should be, do they want
:35:33. > :35:37.to remain part of Britain or not? We need to have that question
:35:37. > :35:40.answered and then we can move on to discuss the future of the devolved
:35:40. > :35:44.arrangements if people opt to stay within Britain.
:35:44. > :35:47.That is an interesting point. Michael Moore himself has said in
:35:47. > :35:52.an interview in The Times this week that the Scotland Bill is only the
:35:52. > :35:55.beginning of the powers that will come to Scotland. He said there
:35:55. > :36:02.could be higher so like further taxation and that sort of things.
:36:02. > :36:06.Do you agree with him? If we say no at this stage, or will the Scotland
:36:07. > :36:12.Bill be just the beginning? The Scotland Bill is a very
:36:12. > :36:17.important series of powers that is being transferred to Scotland. The
:36:17. > :36:22.most significant financial powers since the act of Union in 17 07. It
:36:22. > :36:26.is a significant development in devolution. In relation to post
:36:26. > :36:29.referendum discussions on devolution, it is quite clear that
:36:29. > :36:35.different parties will go for it with different proposals.
:36:35. > :36:39.A but what is your party's proposal on this? What is the Conservative
:36:39. > :36:45.Party's attitude of more power is coming to Scotland if there is a no
:36:45. > :36:47.in the referendum to independence? We were going to the 2015 general
:36:47. > :36:54.election with a set of proposals for Scotland.
:36:54. > :36:58.But what are they? Ruth Davidson has said this far and no further.
:36:58. > :37:02.What Ruth Davidson has said is that she is setting up a review of all
:37:02. > :37:07.the policies of the Scottish Conservative Party, but nothing is
:37:07. > :37:11.off the table. What is clear is that we will have proposals going
:37:11. > :37:15.into the 2015 election in relation to how we see the devolution
:37:15. > :37:19.settlement moving forward. At this time, or what we see is the
:37:19. > :37:23.Scotland Bill being enacted Oakley within the next few months, which
:37:23. > :37:29.will bring to Scotland than most significant financial powers since
:37:29. > :37:32.the act of Union and other changes which command widespread support in
:37:32. > :37:37.Scotland, such as the regulation of their guns.
:37:37. > :37:41.In the not answering that question, in the not answering -- having a
:37:41. > :37:45.clear policy at this stage than we are so far into the bit, do you
:37:45. > :37:49.understand why the electorate might think that you're acting in bad
:37:49. > :37:53.faith? You can tell us what you plan to do. It is a line in the
:37:53. > :37:57.sand or it is not. If it is not, what other parts might you
:37:57. > :38:02.consider? The Liberal Democrats have got a consultation under way
:38:02. > :38:06.at the moment. Bruce Davidson has said no, there will be nothing.
:38:06. > :38:12.Mixed messages are coming out all the time. If you are acting in good
:38:12. > :38:15.faith, argue consulting on further powers and what will they be?
:38:15. > :38:20.That is a total misrepresentation of my position. You're not
:38:20. > :38:24.listening to what I have said or what Ruth Davidson has said. Ruth
:38:24. > :38:28.has made it clear that she will review all the Conservative
:38:28. > :38:33.policies and ahead of the 2015 election, we will set out their
:38:33. > :38:36.policies. What powers could there be?
:38:36. > :38:41.What is fundamentally important is that we settle the issue of whether
:38:41. > :38:46.Scotland remains in the United Kingdom or not.
:38:46. > :38:51.What powers would you consider? Sorry to interrupt. What more
:38:51. > :38:55.powers would you consider? What I want to understand is
:38:55. > :38:59.whether people in Scotland want to stay within the United Kingdom.
:38:59. > :39:04.If they do and they want more powers, would you grant devolution
:39:04. > :39:08.Max? If they want to stay but they want more powers, high when you
:39:08. > :39:14.respond to that? The political community in Scotland
:39:14. > :39:20.has always responded to calls for more powers, but that has to be a
:39:20. > :39:25.defined package of powers. At the moment, devolution Max is undefined.
:39:26. > :39:28.What grips like reform Scotland think it is and what the Scottish
:39:28. > :39:33.Trades Union Congress think it are completely different things. What
:39:33. > :39:37.we need to do at the moment is to settle the issue once and for all.
:39:37. > :39:42.Is Scotland in the United Kingdom or not, and then move forward if
:39:42. > :39:48.the answer is yes with the devolution settlement.
:39:48. > :39:52.In that the terms of the question come all was the SNP Government
:39:52. > :39:57.have in their consultation, the question is, do you agree Scotland
:39:57. > :40:02.should be an independent country? Ruth Davidson has said she thinks
:40:02. > :40:06.this is a fair and decisive legal question. Do you agree with that?
:40:06. > :40:11.What she has said is that there is tremendous progress that we are
:40:11. > :40:16.moving forward to have a proposal... As a matter of fact in Holyrood, of
:40:16. > :40:20.what Ruth Davidson said was that -- it was a fair and decisive leader
:40:20. > :40:25.questioned. Do you agree with her? Ruth has said that it is a matter
:40:25. > :40:29.of progress that we move forward and have the simple question of the
:40:29. > :40:31.sort that ask people whether or not they want to say in the United
:40:31. > :40:36.Kingdom. Do you agree with that specific
:40:36. > :40:41.wording? I hope there is agreement from the
:40:41. > :40:46.SNP Government and the subject will be the Electoral Commission. That
:40:47. > :40:51.is very important that that happens as part of this process. We need to
:40:51. > :40:56.get it clear that we're having a fair question. That is the basis on
:40:56. > :40:58.which I hope we will proceed. Thank you.
:40:58. > :41:02.The latest figures show 105,000 young people in Scotland are
:41:02. > :41:05.looking for work at the moment. Politicians of all parties launch
:41:05. > :41:10.strategies, put forward proposals and hold summits to try to tackle
:41:10. > :41:18.this problem. So what are they delivering on the ground? Here's
:41:18. > :41:22.Laura Bicker. They are calling it a lost
:41:22. > :41:26.generation. Thousands of 18 to 24 year-olds are searching for a
:41:26. > :41:31.chance, or even a hope of some employment.
:41:31. > :41:35.There are no jobs out there. I want to be in a trade, but tradesmen are
:41:35. > :41:40.not taking on apprenticeships. You try so hard on the application and
:41:40. > :41:44.do not get a return from them. The 18-year-old Sarah Thorne is
:41:44. > :41:47.part of St League, a project to give her sports coaching skills.
:41:47. > :41:52.She has been unemployed for two years.
:41:52. > :41:56.I have done some courses to help me get ready for it, but never gained
:41:56. > :41:59.anything out of them. It was 12 weeks help and then struck back to
:41:59. > :42:05.do your own thing again and go back up and signed that book every two
:42:05. > :42:11.weeks and you're on your own. It was horrible.
:42:11. > :42:13.22-year-old Daniel Terry has always dreamed of being a sports coach.
:42:13. > :42:18.Politicians could organise more programmes for people to get
:42:18. > :42:23.qualifications so employers cannot say you were not qualified. They
:42:23. > :42:27.should organise more programmes to get people into work in groups so
:42:27. > :42:29.they could get their confidence up. That is a big issue that says a
:42:29. > :42:34.month's people that do not have jobs.
:42:34. > :42:37.This is where some of those young people hope to find work. This is
:42:37. > :42:42.the national indoor sports arena. It has been built for the
:42:42. > :42:47.Commonwealth Games in 2014. There are thought to be around 55 job
:42:47. > :42:50.opportunities here, but the Scottish Government says there are
:42:50. > :42:52.105,000 under 25 year-olds looking for work. They say they are
:42:52. > :42:56.creating apprenticeships working with employers to create
:42:56. > :43:05.opportunities, but the young people we have spoken to say they need
:43:05. > :43:12.The youth employment minister Angela Constance was not able to
:43:12. > :43:14.come on, instead we have Marco Biagi of the SNP who sits on a
:43:14. > :43:20.Education and Culture Committee. And with me in the studio, Sarah
:43:20. > :43:29.Thorne, who you saw in the film. Also Jo Swinson the Liberal-
:43:29. > :43:36.Democrat MP, and Kezia Dugdale, Scottish Labour's youth employment
:43:36. > :43:43.spokesman. What is your strategy for youth employment? The powers of
:43:43. > :43:50.the Scottish Parliament are used. You see 25,000 apprenticeships
:43:50. > :43:54.every year. That is 60% up on 2007. The important thing about
:43:54. > :44:04.apprenticeships in Scotland rather than England, is that they happen
:44:04. > :44:04.
:44:04. > :44:08.in the workplace. You have 20,000 training opportunities every year.
:44:08. > :44:16.In Scotland we have a minister for youth employment co-ordinating
:44:16. > :44:21.activity. Are you doing all you can? We are doing all we can with
:44:21. > :44:26.the powers we have. Our main lever to tackle youth unemployment is
:44:26. > :44:35.through education and training, but that does not stop us being
:44:35. > :44:42.creative in other areas, such as securing money and using public
:44:42. > :44:50.sector power. Is that good enough? I do not think
:44:50. > :44:57.so. How could you do it differently? We would not cut
:44:57. > :45:02.college budgets. The SNP have cut. 1.5 billion a year they are putting
:45:02. > :45:11.into post 16 education when budgets are restricted. Is it about money
:45:11. > :45:17.or the strategy? It is about all of theirs. We want to see them using
:45:17. > :45:21.the buying power of government more effectively. The big debate about
:45:21. > :45:26.the Forth Road Bridge. How many jobs will it create for young
:45:26. > :45:30.people? There are questions for the SNP. Also hospitals and schools
:45:31. > :45:38.they plan to build. The is probably not enough co-
:45:39. > :45:43.ordination some voluntary groups say. One had 15 people funding it.
:45:43. > :45:50.Is this a subject where party politics could be set aside?
:45:50. > :45:55.think so. There are welcome signs that is starting to happen. From
:45:55. > :45:59.the UK Government perspective we have the youth contract and �1
:45:59. > :46:04.billion to invest in wage subsidies to create jobs and work experience.
:46:04. > :46:09.There is often a lack of qualifications that can make it
:46:09. > :46:13.difficult for young people to secured jobs. We are making sure we
:46:13. > :46:17.work alongside the Scottish government to make sure initiatives
:46:17. > :46:22.to Oftel. It could always be done better.
:46:22. > :46:28.Sarah Thorne, you were in a project you found useful. What skills did
:46:28. > :46:35.you learn? The first one I attended was a
:46:35. > :46:41.trust that helped me build skills and gain confidence. The next step
:46:41. > :46:46.was M I technologists who put me on a work placement that I did not
:46:46. > :46:56.enjoy. I was not confident. I was working crazy hours the same as
:46:56. > :46:57.
:46:57. > :47:01.anyone else and I was paid �1 per hour. It is not means tested.
:47:01. > :47:10.would be the biggest thing politicians could do that would
:47:10. > :47:17.mean people like you would feel they had a chance of a job? I want
:47:17. > :47:27.on a course that is a charity. I walked in, no confidence, three
:47:27. > :47:32.weeks ago, and I am now on national television speaking up. Just to
:47:32. > :47:37.back and help people get into work. I will leave with six
:47:37. > :47:42.qualifications. The downside is that it is not what I want to do,
:47:42. > :47:48.it is care. Trying to get into a course when I don't have the
:47:48. > :47:52.qualifications is awful. Three years I have wanted to do care.
:47:53. > :47:58.Is there a point that could work is done through the voluntary sector.
:47:58. > :48:04.Young people go on courses and have a proven track record and then beat
:48:04. > :48:08.funding is withdrawn. What continuity can you guarantee?
:48:08. > :48:13.of the funding opportunities are decided at local government. In my
:48:13. > :48:21.constituency in Edinburgh, there is an increase in funding available
:48:21. > :48:26.for voluntary sector projects. That was passed this week. There is
:48:26. > :48:30.recognition these projects are valuable and need to be funded. I
:48:30. > :48:35.have met young people who have been through the project, such as the
:48:35. > :48:41.Canon Gate Youth Project, who talk about the boost to confidence that
:48:41. > :48:47.provides and how it helps them to find work. The more doom-laden
:48:47. > :48:51.stories about how the situation is bleak, the more hope can be knocked
:48:51. > :48:55.down. It is important to have the message that there is a chance for
:48:55. > :49:00.young people and for young people with reasonable levels of
:49:00. > :49:05.qualifications, unemployment is on the way down.
:49:05. > :49:09.When we look at the effect of programmes at the moment, an
:49:09. > :49:15.apprenticeship used to be done for years, rigorous training. The
:49:15. > :49:20.current programme focuses on 16-19 year olds. And after that you have
:49:20. > :49:26.a mass of young people who cannot get work. What is the answer to
:49:26. > :49:31.longer term unemployment? There is an opportunity for the Government
:49:31. > :49:36.to address structural issues in the system and tackle that in the jobs
:49:36. > :49:40.market. That is about investing in young people, getting them involved
:49:40. > :49:47.in things, giving them sustained experience of work and supporting
:49:47. > :49:51.them. Where does the money come from? It is more a matter of what
:49:51. > :49:57.you do if you do not invest now because the cost to the future is
:49:57. > :50:02.greater than anything invested now. Do you have any sense that possibly
:50:02. > :50:06.we are not getting the education balance right? Business often say
:50:06. > :50:12.there is emphasis on encouraging people into college courses and we
:50:12. > :50:17.should be stepping back and looking at what might be more relevant.
:50:17. > :50:20.think you get that complaint from businesses sometimes that young
:50:20. > :50:24.people do not have the qualifications and experience they
:50:24. > :50:30.require. That is why the youth contract is important. Nick Clegg
:50:30. > :50:35.has pushed for that investment to enable people to have experience.
:50:35. > :50:42.That also gives employers to see the talent out there. Sarah Thorne
:50:42. > :50:48.is an excellent example. It gives young people the experience of what
:50:48. > :50:52.it is like to be in the workplace. What it is like rather than having
:50:52. > :50:57.the academic experience early. I'm glad to see that under pressure
:50:57. > :51:02.from the Liberal-Democrats, cuts to colleges in the Scottish Parliament
:51:02. > :51:04.were reduced this week. It is important places are available for
:51:05. > :51:10.people who want to get a qualification so they can get into
:51:10. > :51:14.the jobs market. Do you have any concern... You have
:51:14. > :51:19.worked hard. You have been successful at what you have tried
:51:19. > :51:24.to do, but have you concerns that you will put effort into a college
:51:24. > :51:33.place, get there and get your qualification... And not have a job
:51:33. > :51:41.by the end? I do. I dropped out of school. I wanted to prove it was
:51:41. > :51:45.not because I was not clever enough. -- my brother dropped out. He
:51:45. > :51:50.worked hard for five years to become a trades man, timing, and
:51:50. > :51:54.now there is no work for him. your friends, how disheartening is
:51:54. > :52:01.it that you do the best you can and give it everything, and there is
:52:01. > :52:09.nothing? It knocks you down a level. What is the point of building
:52:09. > :52:14.confidence, for it not to be recognised? It is degrading. Also,
:52:14. > :52:19.you get a job diary at the JobCentre. You have to fill that in.
:52:19. > :52:29.You worry your benefits will be sanctioned. We will not go down
:52:29. > :52:29.
:52:29. > :52:36.that road just now! That is a point, nobody sitting around here,
:52:36. > :52:43.whatever political so -- political persuasion, that somebody can give
:52:43. > :52:48.so much and then been knocked down. I am asking about the priorities
:52:48. > :52:53.you are choosing. Is it right to focus on the apprenticeships and
:52:53. > :52:58.16-19 year olds, when older graduates are also struggling for
:52:58. > :53:03.jobs, and is it right not enough money is going into the early
:53:03. > :53:09.years? Why are you choosing the priorities you are choosing?
:53:09. > :53:15.The 16-90-year-old age group is important. When people leave
:53:15. > :53:20.compulsory education they have to ensure they have an opportunity.
:53:20. > :53:25.The opportunities for all programme will be a landmark, offering to
:53:25. > :53:28.everybody in that age bracket he does not have employment, education
:53:29. > :53:34.or a training place. If you can stop people being unemployed at
:53:34. > :53:40.that stage, you can have serious benefits further run. I would not
:53:40. > :53:44.say there is no emphasis on early years. Spend has been a hallmark of
:53:44. > :53:50.the Budget in that area. Many apprenticeships do include those up
:53:50. > :53:53.to 24. There is a commitment across the board. There is a recognition
:53:54. > :54:00.that full young people, in good economic times even, it is hard for
:54:00. > :54:06.them to find work. Is that the bottom line, in hard times, young
:54:06. > :54:10.people will suffer more? Yes. He talks about the 16-19 year olds the
:54:10. > :54:14.gender. They have a bold step to give every young person an
:54:14. > :54:20.opportunity, but it must be meaningful. In my experience, it
:54:20. > :54:30.can be as little as two hours a week. People just want a job and a
:54:30. > :54:31.
:54:31. > :54:36.chance. We have to leave this here. Thank you for that.
:54:36. > :54:40.Before you go, you have a statement saying the SNP should drop plans to
:54:40. > :54:45.allow 16 and 17 year olds to vote in the referendum. We understand
:54:45. > :54:50.you are meeting the campaign group promoting votes for this age group.
:54:50. > :54:56.I am a supporter of votes at 16 and I will continue to campaign. I do
:54:56. > :55:06.not think with the voting franchise we should pick and choose. The SNP
:55:06. > :55:08.
:55:08. > :55:14.plans are incoherent. They are not planning a new canvas. It would be
:55:14. > :55:18.votes for 16 and three-quarter year olds. I do not supported for one-
:55:18. > :55:25.off referendums. I think all those who support votes at 60 should work
:55:25. > :55:28.together to get it changed for good and for all elections.
:55:28. > :55:31.Housing charities warned that unless more affordable
:55:31. > :55:39.accommodation is made available, a growing number of people will be
:55:39. > :55:43.stuck in temporary homes. We report on why new legislation to end
:55:43. > :55:47.homelessness by 2012 could make it more difficult for those in need to
:55:47. > :55:57.find a permanent home. Andrew is homeless and living in a
:55:57. > :56:04.hostel -- run by a Christian housing trust. They concentrate on
:56:04. > :56:07.finding homes for people who need help the most. You are not
:56:07. > :56:13.prioritised being single and homeless. You have to grin and bear
:56:13. > :56:17.it at the moment. It is unreal. wants to get back to work. He says
:56:17. > :56:22.finding affordable private sector accommodation is a challenge.
:56:22. > :56:28.was a job that was ideal, unfortunately, the accommodation
:56:28. > :56:36.around that area, where I was wanting to be, was on affordable.
:56:36. > :56:40.This man is also home this. He has lived in his car in the Borders.
:56:40. > :56:49.When you have been sleeping in your car, you feel nobody will give you
:56:49. > :56:56.a chance. Hello. He is now moving into short-term housing while
:56:56. > :57:05.borders Council find him a home. Shelter Scotland say the council is
:57:05. > :57:11.one of nine local forages who have met the 2012 commitment. This is
:57:11. > :57:16.the biggest challenge we have had in 20 years. It has required a root
:57:16. > :57:21.and branch approach. We have changed policy comprehensively. We
:57:21. > :57:24.had to change the ethos in the service to put more focused on
:57:24. > :57:30.prevention of homelessness and sustaining 10 ounces. The bottom
:57:30. > :57:35.line is that we will continue to need more affordable housing --
:57:35. > :57:40.tenancies. With a lack of affordable housing and no sanctions
:57:40. > :57:44.for councils to do not deliver, can any commitment be fulfilled? It is
:57:44. > :57:51.important to have a goal like the Scottish howff of ending
:57:51. > :57:57.homelessness in 2012. -- they have. You still have to have resources
:57:57. > :58:02.there. You have to have the support system in place to enable people to
:58:02. > :58:09.sustain housing. It is not enough to have the statements, although
:58:09. > :58:12.they are important. By the end of 2012, local-authority is will have
:58:12. > :58:18.to class every unintentionally homeless person as a priority and
:58:18. > :58:25.give them access to a home. The challenge will be to make sure
:58:25. > :58:28.people like Andrew are not stuck in With me here is the Editor of The
:58:28. > :58:34.Big Issue, Paul McNamee. And in our Edinburgh studio, we have Graham
:58:34. > :58:39.Brown, the director of the homeless charity Shelter Scotland.
:58:39. > :58:44.What do you think this 2012 legal commitment is actually worth?
:58:44. > :58:49.I think it is a great idea. Anything that grabs this and tries
:58:49. > :58:53.to do something about the ongoing issues of homelessness is fantastic.
:58:53. > :58:57.But something that Dennis touched on gets much closer to the problem.
:58:57. > :59:05.It is not really enough just to build houses. You will not end
:59:05. > :59:09.homelessness like that. Kit sounds contradictory, but that is at the
:59:09. > :59:16.base here. There is something much broader and much more societal. You
:59:16. > :59:19.cannot eradicate polio, and you have to get right down to the base.
:59:19. > :59:22.Why it sort of structures are needed? You say it seems obvious
:59:22. > :59:29.that you can put someone in a house, but what is the bigger picture
:59:29. > :59:34.around that? With The Big Issue, we offer people
:59:34. > :59:38.a way to get self-respect and make a living. That is a good start. But
:59:38. > :59:42.you have to remember that these people, a lot of these people, have
:59:42. > :59:47.incredibly different, fractured lives. They might not know how to
:59:47. > :59:52.look after themselves properly or pay bills or make sure they are
:59:52. > :59:57.connected to the mains. There is an awful lot of things that keeps
:59:57. > :00:02.people in this situation. In the previous item, people were talking
:00:03. > :00:07.about youth unemployment. If the word hope came up a couple of times.
:00:07. > :00:10.The need hope and ambition and some kind of future. You need to work
:00:10. > :00:15.out why that is not there for people who are falling through the
:00:15. > :00:18.cracks and what we can do to address that.
:00:18. > :00:22.Given what Paul has just said, are the much wider issues for a
:00:22. > :00:28.particular section of people who are repeatedly homeless? It in the
:00:28. > :00:33.general picture, do you think we have enough houses to meet the
:00:33. > :00:39.current needs or planning enough for the future?
:00:39. > :00:44.Clearly not. The 2012 commitment is a staging post. It is a process. It
:00:44. > :00:48.is not the end in itself. There needs to be much more done and we
:00:48. > :00:53.are all agreed about that. We welcome the Scottish Government's
:00:53. > :00:58.commitment to bring empty homes back into use. They have been
:00:58. > :01:02.funding programmes to do that, which makes a lot of sense. We also
:01:02. > :01:07.welcome the additional �80 million they have invested this week in an
:01:07. > :01:10.-- into affordable housing. It is quite clear that at the moment that
:01:10. > :01:16.the danger is we are going to put a lot of people into temporary
:01:16. > :01:20.accommodation. Some people can end up in temporary accommodation for
:01:20. > :01:24.over two years. That is not a solution. We need to invest in more
:01:24. > :01:30.affordable housing. What about this non-privatisation.
:01:30. > :01:33.We heard in the report that if you were a single man or if you were a
:01:33. > :01:37.childless couple that you were not made a priority. What you think
:01:37. > :01:43.will be the effect of this legal obligation in practice that there
:01:43. > :01:49.should be non-privatisation and everybody should get equal access?
:01:49. > :01:53.This is the significance of the 2012 commitment. We have not just
:01:53. > :01:57.have to use teens procedure, a be a fat to change the ethos and working
:01:57. > :02:00.culture and attitudes towards housing and homelessness
:02:00. > :02:03.departments and local authorities. Local authorities across Scotland
:02:03. > :02:07.have been working hard and the Scottish Government to do that.
:02:08. > :02:11.That will be one of the big pay- offs of this commitment. Can I just
:02:11. > :02:15.remind people that when this commitment was made, it was made
:02:15. > :02:20.with all-party support across the entire political spectrum and the
:02:20. > :02:24.Scottish Parliament. What about securing tenancies and
:02:24. > :02:29.initiatives like that? What kind of role will the private sector have?
:02:29. > :02:32.Do you think we are imaginative enough about actually Freeman that
:02:32. > :02:36.properly? We probably aren't, but it is
:02:36. > :02:40.something to do with housing stock and how big can get access to that.
:02:40. > :02:45.As has been touched on, when this came around in 2003, we did not
:02:45. > :02:50.know about the financial catastrophe that was coming. Access
:02:50. > :02:55.to a tenancy probably would have become a bit easier. To a lot of
:02:55. > :02:58.things that have happened since then have meant that it is not
:02:58. > :03:02.quite as straightforward as just putting a couple of bits of policy
:03:02. > :03:09.into place. Is there a different experience for
:03:09. > :03:12.people in rural areas and in cities, or how does that actually contrast?
:03:12. > :03:20.Between rural and city, and also in different regions across the
:03:20. > :03:25.country. The people that sell The Big Issue in London, you will find
:03:25. > :03:28.many and younger men. In some parts of Scotland, it will beat people
:03:28. > :03:31.who are a bit unsure about whether or not they can meet the next
:03:31. > :03:37.payments on the rent and they are fearful of falling into
:03:37. > :03:39.homelessness. They may have a family. There is no one single kind
:03:40. > :03:43.of person that comes under homelessness.
:03:43. > :03:47.Thank you. Now in homage to St Valentine, it's
:03:47. > :03:50.political seduction time. They are all going to sweet talk you. Look
:03:50. > :03:53.at what a lovely future you could have with them, and, oh, their
:03:53. > :03:56.competitors? Not your type at all. Those referendum party strategists
:03:56. > :04:06.have their eye on you and Hayley Jarvis has been checking out what
:04:06. > :04:09.
:04:09. > :04:13.they are going to do about it. We need to start building a big
:04:13. > :04:17.community for this client... family advertising company takes
:04:17. > :04:20.pride in its power to persuade. It is in their business of selling
:04:20. > :04:24.products and ideas and says politics is no different.
:04:24. > :04:28.If you can get a strong message out there that resonates with people,
:04:28. > :04:35.if you can get that message out there, you can actually drive
:04:35. > :04:38.somebody to go whitened actually vote. We did about four executions
:04:38. > :04:41.and... That the agency has worked with
:04:41. > :04:46.almost all of the political parties at some stage and in the case of
:04:46. > :04:51.the success, it was the Conservative and Labour parties.
:04:51. > :04:54.How easy was it to prevent a united front?
:04:54. > :04:56.It was challenging to deal with two sets of people but they knew what
:04:56. > :05:00.they wanted to do. The Independent's campaign will be
:05:00. > :05:04.similar. So if politicians are in the
:05:04. > :05:10.business of selling their brand, I will they reach out to us?
:05:10. > :05:13.A winning campaign needs ideas and evidence and passion. Those are the
:05:13. > :05:18.ingredients that any campaign seeks to bring to bear in its
:05:18. > :05:22.conversation with the voters. The SNP believes positive
:05:23. > :05:26.campaigning led them to victory last May. But party strategists
:05:26. > :05:31.says he will take this approach again using the most up-to-date
:05:31. > :05:38.marketing techniques along the way. Every campaign that we have run in
:05:38. > :05:43.the recent past and have a confident campaign team and they
:05:43. > :05:47.have used every single tool that one uses a modern campaigning and a
:05:47. > :05:51.modern research to be as well informed as you possibly can be, to
:05:51. > :05:55.consider high it is that you are communicating your message and to
:05:55. > :05:59.deploy that message has effectively as you can.
:05:59. > :06:03.Pro-independence bloc or Peter tends to communicate his message
:06:03. > :06:06.face-to-face. He worked as a negotiator dealing with trade
:06:06. > :06:10.disputes and he hopes to use his powers of persuasion at community
:06:10. > :06:14.level. I hope to find people but share my
:06:14. > :06:22.viewpoint and see if we can form a small nucleus to get something
:06:22. > :06:26.moving in and my immediate village. But it has to be broadened to
:06:26. > :06:29.people who have a different viewpoint and who may have a
:06:29. > :06:37.diametrically different viewpoint and to people who have no foreign
:06:37. > :06:44.view at all. It is judging how those undecided voters will be here
:06:44. > :06:46.is that keeps these people busy. Positivity, apparently, is the key.
:06:46. > :06:53.It is this middle ground that both the campaigns are going to be
:06:54. > :06:58.fighting for. Negative campaigns tend to suppress the turnout of
:06:58. > :07:06.those people in the middle. For the Unionists and the SNP, they have to
:07:07. > :07:12.figure out how to get their message across in this positive ways.
:07:12. > :07:15.Try telling that to make Ronnie's campaign team. Attacking the
:07:15. > :07:20.opponents seems to be par for the course. But this negativity could
:07:20. > :07:24.be stifling real debate. That is someone according -- according to
:07:24. > :07:28.someone who has experience on and off the screen.
:07:28. > :07:32.The Scottish should watch what we have done in this country. We have
:07:32. > :07:39.destroyed the political process. Congress cannot even have a
:07:39. > :07:44.conversation because it is so parties and. Everything is related
:07:44. > :07:50.to the upcoming elections, whether it is the two year Congressional
:07:50. > :07:54.elections. They're so better. This is because of all the negativity.
:07:54. > :07:58.Nothing is accomplished here. Positive or negative, the parties
:07:58. > :08:02.will be hoping their sales pitch will appeal to voters across the
:08:02. > :08:04.spectrum in the run-up to the referendum. The real test of their
:08:05. > :08:08.powers of persuasion is that they can stretch that far.
:08:08. > :08:10.With me to shed some more light on the art of political persuasion is
:08:10. > :08:13.the ex-Scottish Labour spin doctor, Simon Pia, the Communications
:08:13. > :08:19.consultant to the SNP, and former special advisor to the First
:08:19. > :08:27.Minister, Jennifer Dempsie. And the Professor of Political
:08:27. > :08:32.Communication at Glasgow University, Sarah Oates.
:08:32. > :08:37.If I were to ask you all very briefly, what makes the perfect
:08:38. > :08:41.politician? Sarah. I would be in a far wealthier
:08:41. > :08:46.position than I am today! The perfect politician is someone who
:08:46. > :08:50.can communicate their message in an upbeat, positive way, respectful of
:08:50. > :08:54.the voters's intelligence, a leading and not following,
:08:54. > :08:59.proposing positive ideas for society while being realistic.
:08:59. > :09:04.Obviously, I have described some on it does not exist!
:09:04. > :09:08.What do you think? I agree with the positive part.
:09:08. > :09:11.Some of his dynamic with the ability to change to react. Someone
:09:11. > :09:17.that is very consultative and listens to ideas from wherever they
:09:17. > :09:21.come from. And over all, some on his 100% dedicated and has a thick
:09:21. > :09:25.skin. The perfect politician... I think
:09:25. > :09:30.it is someone with the Big Idea, conviction, leadership, guts,
:09:30. > :09:35.charisma, courage. And have you found all of those
:09:35. > :09:42.things in any one person? No, I will not as good that! We are
:09:42. > :09:45.constantly talking about a positive environment. And we also know that
:09:45. > :09:50.you're out there checking the focus groups, the SNP are turning to
:09:50. > :09:53.psychologists about voting patterns... How seriously do the
:09:53. > :09:59.strategists take the kind of feedback they get and how far does
:09:59. > :10:06.that actually changed where they might have been going?
:10:06. > :10:12.Very seriously. We build a strategy based on the various things. The
:10:12. > :10:17.obvious the use focus groups to look at opinion polls. We use our
:10:17. > :10:21.Act of its system, which has all hour candidates information right
:10:21. > :10:25.from the doorsteps. And obviously we take from media and what do
:10:25. > :10:30.politicians are saying. There is a whole wide range of things. But
:10:30. > :10:36.having that expertise to look at trends from people who are
:10:36. > :10:40.psychologists and sociologists, it does help look at what the
:10:40. > :10:45.direction of the country is going and what the mood is, particularly
:10:45. > :10:47.with regards to the media. But doesn't that mean that we have
:10:47. > :10:51.the politicians fog and public opinion than what they really hope
:10:51. > :10:55.is that they will shape public opinion and advance to be it?
:10:55. > :10:59.In democracy, it is an elaborate dance. It is between knowing what
:10:59. > :11:06.the public wants and leading the public is something better.
:11:06. > :11:09.President Barack Obama is the perfect type of that person. He
:11:09. > :11:14.exploded onto the scene and did not follow politics as usual. Some of
:11:14. > :11:20.his politics did not have a majority public support. But his
:11:20. > :11:24.image of what the public should be and what the country should be was
:11:24. > :11:28.revolutionary. Up the question in Scotland is, do we have a
:11:28. > :11:33.politician who can also tap into that zeitgeist and at the same time,
:11:33. > :11:36.create a new image of what it is to be Scottish, whether that is to be
:11:36. > :11:41.Scottish within the UK or Scottish within an independent nation. That
:11:41. > :11:45.is the challenge, I think, for the political parties in Scotland today.
:11:46. > :11:49.How prescriptive can you actually be in high and individual interacts
:11:49. > :11:52.with the public? It must come to some point for the do not look
:11:52. > :11:57.pathetic. What has changed dramatically it is
:11:57. > :12:01.that politics is less tribal and people say you rather than
:12:01. > :12:05.identifying themselves as working class, they identified themselves
:12:05. > :12:10.as Scottish primarily. This is to the advantage of the SNP.
:12:10. > :12:14.So what is less tribal with the voters?
:12:14. > :12:19.What all political parties are after is the swing voter, the
:12:19. > :12:23.persuader balls. We try and kid on that we don't follow America, but
:12:23. > :12:31.America has led the way on this. What Jennifer was alluding to -
:12:31. > :12:34.focus groups, they have fallen on hard times. New Labour's success,
:12:34. > :12:41.fill up gold went to America and study into how Clinton encoder that.
:12:41. > :12:44.Gordon Brown is a big fan of this. I know there is people in the SNP
:12:44. > :12:51.who reviewer Philip Gould and they have his began their of us. They
:12:51. > :12:55.use that. It is how you tap into that. A big key thing about 2011...
:12:55. > :13:00.Barack Obama had more money than became. People do not think about
:13:00. > :13:04.that. The SNP had a lot more money than Labour and they spent seven
:13:05. > :13:09.times more than us in the 2011 Election. They had the ability to
:13:09. > :13:16.do market research and spend three times more on advertising. That is
:13:16. > :13:20.a problem. You do pick up on these trends and what people want and
:13:20. > :13:23.it's you know what buzzwords and messages to be Dowds there. They
:13:23. > :13:30.have been tried with the focus groups and have people react in a
:13:30. > :13:37.positive way, that is the key. All parties are negative in certain
:13:37. > :13:41.ways. Alex Salmond got the sun to do his negative smear campaign
:13:41. > :13:46.after ingratiating himself with Sir Rupert Murdoch. The Daily Record
:13:46. > :13:51.was a long-term supporter of Labour, the only people in Scotland. If you
:13:51. > :14:01.want media backing, the SNP got numerous papers to back them. It
:14:01. > :14:03.
:14:03. > :14:07.was a sea-change in Scottish You are getting tribal here.
:14:07. > :14:13.Jennifer wants to fight for her side, I want to fight for mine.
:14:13. > :14:17.you buy an election? Out absolutely not. Money is not everything. It
:14:17. > :14:22.would be the easy answer. The fact is money does not mean anything if
:14:22. > :14:31.you do not have the right product and brand and in this case the
:14:32. > :14:38.right party and team and ideas and vision. If the SNP did not have
:14:38. > :14:45.that platform in the recent election, they would not have won.
:14:45. > :14:51.They did attract extra funding from supporters. It enabled us to target
:14:51. > :14:56.people and follow the trends and where the shift in opinion was.
:14:56. > :15:04.When somebody says the word brand about politics and the right
:15:04. > :15:10.message, we are focusing this, do you have any feeling that whatever
:15:10. > :15:15.happened to conviction politics, with people speaking from a heart?
:15:15. > :15:20.I do not have that visceral reaction. Probably because I am
:15:20. > :15:26.American. I feel like an anthropologist who has been dropped
:15:26. > :15:30.into a local tribe to study. As much as I would like to say the
:15:30. > :15:39.sciences everything, it is not. It sets your playing field. After that,
:15:39. > :15:46.the players go out. Alex Salmond has out batted everybody. Alex
:15:46. > :15:51.Salmond has his talent. But my view is the emperor has no clothes. The
:15:52. > :15:59.S&P had their message that they were for Scotland. -- SNP. They
:15:59. > :16:09.wanted to avoid independence at all costs. I am a Labour through and
:16:09. > :16:11.
:16:11. > :16:17.through. The point is there was a single coherent positive message. D
:16:17. > :16:22.you accept Labour did not get that? It did not come across. Our message
:16:22. > :16:26.was fighting for what really matters. I would argue the general
:16:26. > :16:32.election in Westminster, people voted on policy is more. The
:16:32. > :16:42.Holyrood election is more about the feeling. The S&P message was that
:16:42. > :16:45.
:16:45. > :16:51.they are for Scotland. -- SNP. think absolutely and I said it at
:16:51. > :16:57.the beginning, do not underestimate the intelligence of the voter.
:16:57. > :17:07.Sometimes it is emotion. We are almost out of time. Women voters,
:17:07. > :17:10.
:17:10. > :17:14.do they have a distinctive voice? It turns out women are more
:17:14. > :17:22.conservatively voting. It is a fight to get women. They vote with
:17:22. > :17:30.their heads, not their Hearts, to buy into independence.
:17:30. > :17:34.challenge will be for independence, and I think they can do that
:17:35. > :17:42.because they have detailed messages to get across. We are giving the
:17:42. > :17:48.women the last word, Simon. barged in as usual. People to vote
:17:48. > :17:55.on emotions and feeling rather than reason, which his wife those pro-
:17:55. > :18:02.union have to make... Simon, I am sorry, it looks like I am pulling
:18:02. > :18:08.rank. But we are out of time. Thank you. Now time for the lunchtime
:18:08. > :18:11.news. Good afternoon. The Scottish and UK governments say
:18:11. > :18:13.they are hoping to quickly resolve outstanding wrangles over plans for
:18:13. > :18:16.the independence referendum. First Minister Alex Salmond is due to
:18:16. > :18:19.meet with Scottish Secretary Michael Moore tomorrow in Edinburgh.
:18:19. > :18:22.While they have been disagreeing over arrangements to run the ballot,
:18:22. > :18:32.proposed by the SNP for autumn 2014, both sides say there is now more
:18:32. > :18:35.
:18:35. > :18:39.common ground. There is no broad consensus about the timing of the
:18:39. > :18:44.referendum. We look forward to hearing views about the questions
:18:44. > :18:49.that might be in that referendum. do not expect tomorrow will be the
:18:49. > :18:54.final discussion on this issue, but it is the start of a positive
:18:54. > :18:57.process, where we can get the details sorted out.
:18:57. > :18:59.Bankers from the Royal Bank of Scotland have been arrested as part
:18:59. > :19:02.of an investigation into alleged personal tax fraud. The arrests
:19:02. > :19:05.include four current staff and one former employee from the Edinburgh-
:19:05. > :19:10.headquartered bank. They were arrested at their homes across
:19:10. > :19:12.London and the Home Counties on Wednesday.
:19:12. > :19:15.Scotland's rugby squad are in Cardiff, taking on Wales at the
:19:15. > :19:18.Millennium Stadium this afternoon in their Six Nations Match. They're
:19:18. > :19:25.looking to bounce back from their opening day defeat last Saturday at
:19:25. > :19:28.Murrayfield, where they lost to England by 13-6. Head coach Andy
:19:28. > :19:38.Robinson says he believes Scotland can upset the odds and is urging
:19:38. > :19:40.
:19:40. > :19:44.his players to maintain their composure. There is live coverage
:19:44. > :19:49.composure. There is live coverage on this channel this afternoon. And
:19:49. > :19:59.now the weather. Another cloudy day across the
:19:59. > :20:01.
:20:01. > :20:06.country. It was misty first think. There will be mist around today.
:20:06. > :20:11.Temperatures are not too bad. Colder in the south-east. Overnight,
:20:11. > :20:14.there will be a change with the weather front pushing in that will
:20:14. > :20:21.bring colder air and a strengthening north-westerly breeze.
:20:21. > :20:31.It will be windier tomorrow. I will be back with more news this
:20:31. > :20:32.
:20:32. > :20:42.In a moment we will discuss some of the big events coming up. But first
:20:42. > :20:42.
:20:42. > :20:48.the Week in 60 seconds. Dundee United have come to Glasgow
:20:48. > :20:52.and beaten Rangers! BBC Scotland has uncovered documents that
:20:52. > :20:58.suggest that Rangers' owner may have lied under oath. John Swinney
:20:58. > :21:08.secured backing for his Budget. have listened to views from across
:21:08. > :21:09.
:21:09. > :21:13.the chamber. We have acted decisively. And islanders went to
:21:13. > :21:17.parliament to protest about fishing grounds being decimated. There was
:21:17. > :21:27.high drama at the biggest council in Glasgow when dissenting Labour
:21:27. > :21:27.
:21:27. > :21:32.councillors threatened the approval of the Budget. I am thrilled and
:21:32. > :21:37.delighted. And the view from Trump Towers. Donald Trump accuses the
:21:37. > :21:46.Scottish government of being hell- bent on destroying Scotland's Coast
:21:46. > :21:50.line with wind turbines. I enjoyed in the studio by two
:21:50. > :21:55.prodigious political bloggers. Kate Higgens, otherwise known as A Burdz
:21:55. > :22:05.Eye View, and Ian Smart, who has his own website and contributes to
:22:05. > :22:12.Labour Hame. Let's talk about the referendum mechanics. How much
:22:12. > :22:19.longer can it go on? Please, not much longer. The sooner we get out
:22:19. > :22:23.of the political parlour and into the public arena, the better.
:22:23. > :22:27.People will just switch off and stop engaging and stick their
:22:27. > :22:33.fingers in their ears and hope it will go away and I think
:22:33. > :22:37.politicians have to be wary of getting to that point. It is a
:22:37. > :22:46.positive sign meetings are going ahead, but let's get the mechanics
:22:46. > :22:50.sorted out sooner rather than later. I agree entirely. This is of
:22:50. > :22:56.interest to political bloggers, but I'm not sure about the general
:22:56. > :23:03.public. Should there be a news blackout until we know the
:23:03. > :23:09.question?! He will oversee it, no more until we know what is
:23:09. > :23:15.proposed? Presumably its horse- trading on screen? Presumably they
:23:15. > :23:18.are flying kites. Alex Salmond will say things have not been finally
:23:18. > :23:24.agreed because they will be finally agreed with the Prime Minister
:23:25. > :23:32.later in the week. He will say a lot of progress has been made and
:23:32. > :23:42.they will reach a consensus in due course. What are we missing when we
:23:42. > :23:42.
:23:42. > :23:47.focus on this? We are very much missed in what independence might
:23:47. > :23:50.do or what staying in the union might achieve. At the moment we are
:23:50. > :23:56.at this stage of sorting out the mechanics and also there is
:23:56. > :24:00.shouting going on, and with both side shouting and not making a lot
:24:00. > :24:06.of sense. I made a decision this week not to talk about the
:24:06. > :24:10.referendum for a week because it is boring and there is a lot of wrong
:24:10. > :24:15.information out there. We need to get to the issues that people want
:24:15. > :24:20.to know about to make an informed choice. If we are getting into
:24:20. > :24:27.statistics, how informed? We have the same evidence and conflicting
:24:28. > :24:33.interpretations. It will be tricky. One of the things that has to be
:24:33. > :24:41.clarified is what is meant by independence. In the 1920s, when
:24:41. > :24:46.the SNP was formed, nobody is suggesting that is the model of
:24:46. > :24:54.independence. It is not clear what the alternative is. It was
:24:54. > :25:04.suggested today it appears we will keep the Queen and Stirling.
:25:04. > :25:04.
:25:04. > :25:13.need clarity. Do you think no party will come up with anything that
:25:13. > :25:18.involves hard choices? Is that the chilling effect? Yes. I think it is.
:25:18. > :25:23.It would be a missed opportunity. This is a once in a generation
:25:23. > :25:28.opportunity. Party such as the Lib Dems and David Mundell was
:25:28. > :25:33.suggesting today, let's have a yes or know, and then we will discuss
:25:33. > :25:39.powers. Forget that approach. People do not want to spend ten
:25:39. > :25:43.years talking about the constitution. Let's have a proper
:25:43. > :25:50.informed debate about the issues. It is not fair to the Scottish
:25:50. > :25:55.people, otherwise, to neutralise the issues to obtain party
:25:55. > :26:03.advantage. This is the decision of the Scottish people and nobody else.
:26:03. > :26:11.Glasgow, City Council, do you want to go about that? It is a private
:26:11. > :26:14.beef. There is an element that the focus has been on people defecting
:26:14. > :26:18.and maybe the real embarrassment for the Labour Party is how they
:26:18. > :26:23.were Labour councillors in the first place. They are suggesting
:26:23. > :26:27.they are going to stand as independents. The used to be said
:26:27. > :26:32.in Glasgow you could put to Rangers have told a donkey and it would be
:26:32. > :26:37.elected. He is a lawyer and he is heading down a road that is making
:26:37. > :26:47.me uncomfortable. I am worried about defamation! I have not
:26:47. > :26:53.mention names. -- mentioned. The persuasion peace. We know they are
:26:53. > :26:58.looking at ways of gauging what we think and how to appeal. What about
:26:58. > :27:04.the idea of different sections of society, women are in a specific
:27:04. > :27:11.section, there is the youth vote. Some suggest if you are older and
:27:11. > :27:16.affluent, you are less likely to vote SNP. What will may have to do
:27:16. > :27:22.to challenge attitudes? We had a chat about this on the train coming
:27:22. > :27:30.over. We decided we might not impart commercially sensitive
:27:30. > :27:35.information. We have more elections between us than we care to remember.
:27:35. > :27:42.What was really interesting in the discussion earlier work two words
:27:42. > :27:47.missing, trust and respect. People vote for who they believe can make
:27:47. > :27:53.a difference. There is a danger of applying too much science and
:27:53. > :28:00.strategy. It is important. You need to have an approach that works and
:28:00. > :28:04.appeals. But you have to have big ideas. Trust and respect are vital.
:28:04. > :28:08.People will not vote for politicians they like the best
:28:08. > :28:17.necessarily, but for those they feel they can trust to do the job.
:28:17. > :28:23.We saw back in 2011 election. other thing, everybody says you
:28:23. > :28:27.have to be positive. That is the official line. The reason negative
:28:27. > :28:31.campaigning is used is because it works. It is not realistic to think
:28:31. > :28:38.there would not be negative campaigning come the independence
:28:38. > :28:43.referendum. If one side is relying heavily on negative campaigning,
:28:43. > :28:47.well, it is interesting, there are advantages and disadvantages in
:28:47. > :28:54.every argument. It would be condescending to focus on the
:28:54. > :28:59.positive? Absolutely. It is how you do that. The SNP are clever in how
:28:59. > :29:03.they put negativity into their positive message. They use
:29:04. > :29:08.marketing tools and engagement tools to ensure the trip of
:29:09. > :29:15.negativity is happening in a subtle way. I think they have issues,
:29:15. > :29:22.particularly with women, but they are alert to those. They have time