:00:53. > :00:58.In his first major television interview since quitting the
:00:58. > :01:01.Cabinet, Liam Fox on why George Osborne should depend on Tory
:01:01. > :01:06.policies to grow the economy even if the Liberal Democrats do not
:01:06. > :01:09.like it. And that he does want to return to government. That is the
:01:09. > :01:14.Sunday interview. Could the Lords reform be the
:01:14. > :01:24.unlikely issue that cracks the Coalition? A Lib Dem at Lord and a
:01:24. > :01:26.
:01:26. > :01:30.Tory backbencher go head-to-head. On Sunday Politics Scotland, the
:01:30. > :01:35.energy giant SSE says the constitutional uncertainty is a
:01:35. > :01:40.risk factor which may infect -- affect future prospects.
:01:40. > :01:50.Is any job better than no job? When will graduates get jobs are to
:01:50. > :01:50.
:01:50. > :32:43.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1853 seconds
:32:43. > :32:48.We are talking about learn -- a long-term fix. If you don't agree
:32:48. > :32:57.with the Coalition agreement, and you don't, your own manifesto said
:32:57. > :33:01.it was in favour. It was a democratic mandate. I couldn't
:33:01. > :33:05.hand-pick someone and agree with them about everything. I don't
:33:05. > :33:09.agree with every bit my party says either. When I was knocking on
:33:09. > :33:14.doors for the general election, I did not come across someone who
:33:14. > :33:19.said... Are they banging on the table and saying...? Are you saying
:33:19. > :33:27.we must have a changed constituency? It is another part of
:33:27. > :33:33.a democratic package falls --? have all been nominated by the
:33:33. > :33:39.parties. They probably already failed in government. That is the
:33:39. > :33:43.whole point of having proportional representation. We are in favour of
:33:43. > :33:46.openness where the people can decide. Someone like Philip who is
:33:46. > :33:53.known in Yorkshire would have a good chance of getting into the
:33:53. > :33:58.Lords. He is already elected. that case, you will be it fighting
:33:58. > :34:01.the election on the old boundaries. If the Tories do not deliver on
:34:01. > :34:06.towards reform, you think the Lib Dems will oppose the boundary
:34:07. > :34:15.changes? I think we will not be wanting to put that throw. A deal
:34:15. > :34:19.is a deal. And that means your Coalition is fractured. I take the
:34:19. > :34:28.debate on its merits rather than a petulant argument. You have been
:34:28. > :34:32.going on about Europe! You can never get away from it. If Philip
:34:33. > :34:36.and his friends persist with the is tactics, it will make it very
:34:36. > :34:40.difficult. We're here to implement the Coalition agreement and stick
:34:40. > :34:46.to it, but I'm afraid, we have to get on with it even if we don't
:34:46. > :34:56.like it. The Conservatives have to do the same. The House of Commons
:34:56. > :34:59.
:34:59. > :35:04.is so partisan, that is the complaint. I don't think it will
:35:04. > :35:07.crack the Coalition, but he has just said that it could. The Lib
:35:07. > :35:12.Dems have 8% of the opinion polls. If they want to run away from the
:35:12. > :35:19.Coalition, we'll be happy to fight the general election. We have to
:35:19. > :35:24.leave it there. I enjoyed that. It is 12:35pm. You are watching the
:35:24. > :35:27.Good afternoon and welcome to Sunday Politics Scotland. Coming up
:35:27. > :35:31.on the programme: This week we were trying, honestly,
:35:31. > :35:33.not to use the r word - Rangers or the referendum - but then
:35:33. > :35:35.Scotland's energy giant SSE, the country's second largest company,
:35:35. > :35:38.said the uncertainty about the constitutional future created
:35:38. > :35:48.certain risks and this would be a factor in deciding their future
:35:48. > :35:53.
:35:53. > :35:59.35 % of Scottish Homes will be suffering from fuel poverty this
:35:59. > :36:05.year. It is a daily struggle for some. It is costing about �9 a day
:36:05. > :36:11.to heat the house. More if I put the panel heaters on in the bedroom.
:36:11. > :36:15.It is a struggle. Many recent graduates are taking jobs way below
:36:15. > :36:21.their skills level. They're off the unemployment register and earning
:36:21. > :36:25.cash, but will based get stuck in jobs they did not want? The issue
:36:25. > :36:35.that is important to remember about the unemployment situation, there
:36:35. > :36:42.
:36:42. > :36:52.Over the last financial year the company will have spent almost �900
:36:52. > :36:53.
:36:54. > :36:56.million in Scotland. It says its existing projects will go ahead as
:36:57. > :37:01.planned but future projects may have to have a risk premium, the
:37:01. > :37:04.cost of which will effect whether the investment goes ahead or not.
:37:04. > :37:13.Joining me now in Dundee, the SNP's Stewart Hosie, and with me in the
:37:13. > :37:19.studio, Labour's Tom Greatrex. Thank you very much for coming in.
:37:19. > :37:24.The principal that we can all agree is that companies attach a
:37:24. > :37:31.financial cost to risk so a risk premium has to be attached to an
:37:31. > :37:35.investment sometimes. Yes or no? That is correct. What SSE are
:37:35. > :37:39.saying is the development of their existing projects in Scotland will
:37:39. > :37:44.continue. It does mean that the additional uncertainty represents
:37:44. > :37:48.increased risk of which SSE will have no alternative but to take
:37:48. > :37:54.into account in making final decisions on those projects while
:37:54. > :37:59.that additional uncertainty remains. Here we have the present
:37:59. > :38:04.uncertainty potentially undermining future investment. What they report
:38:04. > :38:08.said in for is that they are not entering the constitutional debate.
:38:08. > :38:12.Their headquarters are remaining in Perth. They have also said they
:38:12. > :38:17.will not stop investing in Scotland, that is clear. As you just pointed
:38:17. > :38:20.out, the existing investments of �900 of this financial year will
:38:20. > :38:25.continue. They will take a commercial decision in the future.
:38:25. > :38:29.It is hypothetical. It will see what, if any, premium may have to
:38:29. > :38:33.be applied, but they are simply taking a look at what is happening.
:38:33. > :38:37.The other big that they said in their report was that we are
:38:37. > :38:40.looking at the common energy market across not just the UK, but the
:38:40. > :38:50.whole of the British Isles. That was an issue they were concerned
:38:50. > :38:55.about. The British Isles council agreed that that is important and
:38:55. > :38:58.is -- that is expected to continue. A lot of the so-called risk they
:38:58. > :39:02.might be talking about is a hypothetical and we will see if
:39:02. > :39:06.there is actually a real premium ever applied in the future. We are
:39:06. > :39:12.also talking about the risk of uncertainty about gone and's
:39:12. > :39:16.position within Europe. Europe has such an influence on regulation and
:39:16. > :39:21.the market. That is another level of risk. Do you accept that it is
:39:21. > :39:25.legitimate for them to say, look at the uncertainty. We have to put a
:39:25. > :39:28.price on this and that could affect future investments. They are
:39:28. > :39:35.entitled to make the response they have made, but in relation to
:39:35. > :39:38.Europe it is clear that when Scotland and England become
:39:38. > :39:42.successful states in the EU, there will be no change to the EU
:39:43. > :39:52.position whatsoever. Before we leave the element of uncertainty,
:39:52. > :39:56.they are making the point also that if the -- if there is a yes vote
:39:56. > :40:01.for independence, the uncertainty continues, but also they talk about
:40:01. > :40:04.in the negotiations. No issue, including the electricity and gas
:40:04. > :40:09.industry, would be looked at in isolation from the others. They are
:40:09. > :40:12.saying that if there is a yes vote post referendum, the rest continue
:40:12. > :40:17.its, whereas you may say that you while some divine what is happening
:40:17. > :40:23.in the energy market, once you tight into wider negotiations that
:40:23. > :40:27.risk and uncertainty remains. seem to be very focused on risk and
:40:27. > :40:31.uncertainty. A Yes vote in the referendum will be extremely
:40:31. > :40:34.certain indeed. Scotland would become an independent nation and
:40:34. > :40:38.have its own government and they will have all the rights and
:40:38. > :40:41.obligations and duties of the other normal independent countries. We
:40:41. > :40:45.will move on not just in relation to energy and electricity, but also
:40:45. > :40:52.the other matters that in normal Independent government would look
:40:52. > :40:55.after. Tom, it is a matter of fact that risk exists for SSE in the
:40:55. > :41:03.existing investments, for example a lack of clarity in the electricity
:41:03. > :41:10.market. Also, SSE have already, because of government policy in the
:41:10. > :41:16.south, had important project. For them, there are risks whatever they
:41:16. > :41:22.do. That is a fact of commercial life. It was not because of a
:41:22. > :41:26.change in policy, it was because it was found that it would not be
:41:26. > :41:30.economic to continue with it. The UK government said it was not a
:41:30. > :41:35.change in policy that drove that decision. What Stewart failed to
:41:35. > :41:38.point out and what SSE pointed out in their contribution is that at
:41:38. > :41:42.the moment, for renewable generation, there is a subsidy
:41:42. > :41:46.which exists which is paid across the bills of every consumer in
:41:46. > :41:51.Britain. In Scotland, we have less than 10 % of consumers. We have
:41:51. > :41:55.more than 30 % of renewable obligation payments. That is a
:41:55. > :41:59.great thing because of what that demonstrates is that where
:41:59. > :42:03.electricity can be generated in Scotland, we will pay together. In
:42:03. > :42:08.a separate Scotland, the question has not been answered as to what
:42:08. > :42:12.happens in terms of the subsidy. That support is needed. It is
:42:12. > :42:16.needed to generate the investment. Either the bills will go up, all
:42:16. > :42:21.the subsidy will be less and the investment will not happen. Given
:42:21. > :42:26.that Scotland has 25 % of Europe's offshore renewable capacity
:42:26. > :42:30.potential, it is a strange question to ask but why would be not have
:42:30. > :42:35.the money from the renewables obligation invested in the part of
:42:35. > :42:39.the world which can best generate the renewable electricity? What
:42:39. > :42:42.Stewart is missing here, and that he does not quite understand it, is
:42:42. > :42:46.that that subsidy allows that Investment and Development to
:42:46. > :42:50.happen. In a state where you have two separate countries, the rest of
:42:50. > :42:56.the UK it will not be paying that subsidy for that development in
:42:56. > :43:01.Scotland. If Scotland is paying for a... That is a point that has been
:43:01. > :43:04.raised. There will be a financial shortfall in terms of renewables.
:43:04. > :43:12.How will that be met if all the money coming out of the South no
:43:12. > :43:15.longer comes to Scotland? I'm and a loss to understand why money for
:43:15. > :43:20.renewable Investment would not be invested in an area of which has a
:43:20. > :43:25.huge amount of renewable potential. You cannot invest money in
:43:25. > :43:28.renewables where there are no renewables. You are saying that the
:43:28. > :43:34.factor of energy supply and demand would say that you have to come
:43:34. > :43:41.into Scotland if you want to do this sensibly. Let me ask you, Tom,
:43:41. > :43:46.as well about the increase cross- border in -- integration. British
:43:46. > :43:50.Irish councils have said this is something they wish to develop.
:43:50. > :43:53.That is the direction of travel. It would be counter-productive for
:43:53. > :43:58.south of the border not to do that. That has long been the direction of
:43:58. > :44:04.travel. There will be a lot of investment needed to make that
:44:04. > :44:09.happen. But we have a single energy market now. We have a need for
:44:09. > :44:14.upgrading infrastructure as well as new plants. That happens on a UK-
:44:14. > :44:17.wide basis. We all pay for that in our bills. That is either through
:44:17. > :44:20.the levy or through other investments through the charge is
:44:20. > :44:25.that the company made. That works because we have a bigger energy
:44:25. > :44:30.market, 27 million households about pay that across Britain. If in a
:44:30. > :44:34.separate Scotland, how would that work? That is a question that the
:44:34. > :44:39.SNP have been unable to answer and that is key to the uncertainty that
:44:39. > :44:43.SSE are concerned about. The grid will be maintained. There is a
:44:43. > :44:47.common electricity market, it is not just in the island of Britain,
:44:47. > :44:52.it is across the entire British Isles. The point that the British
:44:52. > :44:57.Irish Council want this is important. A single common market
:44:57. > :45:01.in energy across the islands is something that we have, and
:45:01. > :45:05.something we intend to keep. When I hear Tom's comments, it is the
:45:05. > :45:09.worst scaremongering. The lights will not go out, the power grids
:45:09. > :45:19.will not be torn down, there will still be a pan British island's
:45:19. > :45:19.
:45:19. > :45:25.electricity market. Still it should ask himself why would they want to
:45:25. > :45:29.invest in Scotland? Two reasons: Firstly because of the potential
:45:29. > :45:34.for renewables in Scotland, and second because the support regime
:45:34. > :45:37.that exists and is paid for through Britain making sure that the
:45:37. > :45:42.investments happened. Renewable energy is capital intensive, you
:45:42. > :45:47.need that money up front. The SNP have not answered how they would do
:45:47. > :45:52.that in separate Scotland. We have to leave it there, thank you.
:45:52. > :45:55.Stewart, you are going to stay with us for your views on other issues
:45:55. > :45:58.we are looking at this morning. Going off at a tangent now in the
:45:58. > :46:01.energy issue, Donald Trump has told this programme he would be honoured
:46:01. > :46:04.to give evidence to a Scottish parliament energy committee if
:46:04. > :46:07.invited. He's accused the First Minister of being hell bent on
:46:07. > :46:11.destroying Scotland coastline with offshore turbines. There are plans
:46:11. > :46:13.for 11 in the sea off the Menie estate where Mr Trump has built a
:46:13. > :46:19.golf course, a situation he describes as a personal betrayal.
:46:19. > :46:23.Court action he says could delay the project for years.
:46:23. > :46:29.I have been told by our attorney's and lawyer's that we can bring a
:46:29. > :46:33.very large lawsuit and probably win it based on the harm that these
:46:33. > :46:37.horrible things would do to Scotland. I had been told we have a
:46:37. > :46:41.very good law suit and we can delay it for years to come. I feel
:46:41. > :46:46.betrayed because obviously all you have to do is check the newspapers
:46:46. > :46:50.and I think the word in terms of how I feel is betrayed, because he
:46:50. > :46:55.would have thought this would happen? I had a very good
:46:55. > :47:05.relationship with Alex Salmond and I like him, but I cannot let
:47:05. > :47:06.
:47:06. > :47:10.Stewart Hosie, just in response to a couple of these things. Do you
:47:10. > :47:14.think this legal threat has any traction at all? I have absolutely
:47:14. > :47:20.no idea. I would probably doubt it, given that there is no decision
:47:20. > :47:24.made on the deployment facility of the Menie Estate. That decision
:47:24. > :47:30.will be taken into cause. I am sure it will be taken properly. The key
:47:30. > :47:34.thing to remember here is that this facility is a test facility. It is
:47:34. > :47:41.11 turbines, I think about three- and-a-half kilometres off the coast.
:47:41. > :47:50.It is not a full-scale wind turbine array, but a relatively small test
:47:50. > :47:54.facility. But what you think about Donald Trump's general tone. There
:47:54. > :47:58.was concern about the lack of respect shown to the office of the
:47:58. > :48:02.First Minister in some of his comments. I am sure he will say the
:48:03. > :48:06.things that he wants to say. The original Trump development went
:48:06. > :48:11.through the planning process and the Scottish Parliament committee
:48:11. > :48:14.agreed that have been done properly. There will now be a test the city
:48:14. > :48:18.offshore. Again, the prices will be followed her properly. If Donald
:48:18. > :48:24.Trump is not happy, I am sure he will do whatever he feels is
:48:24. > :48:28.necessary but so long as the planning process let -- prisoners
:48:28. > :48:32.is done absolutely scrupulously, as I am sure it will become I'm not
:48:32. > :48:37.sure where Mr Trump will go with it. Let's look at the new Scottish Sun
:48:37. > :48:43.on Sunday. It is at today. It says it has a world exclusive, day of
:48:43. > :48:47.destiny, Saturday the ANC of October 2014 they have revealed as
:48:47. > :48:53.the day for Scotland's historic independence vote. Is that the
:48:53. > :48:58.date? It is certainly a possibility. 18th October is certainly the
:48:58. > :49:00.autumn of 2014. It is a Saturday and not a Thursday and that is one
:49:00. > :49:04.of the areas the Scottish Government is consulting on. But
:49:04. > :49:07.the consultation has not finished and it would be wrong of anyone to
:49:07. > :49:14.prejudge the date for that might be concluded from the consultation.
:49:14. > :49:16.Would it be wrong of any of the SNP Government to have this announced
:49:16. > :49:21.in our Rupert Murdoch's papers before they told parliament the
:49:21. > :49:24.formal date? I had a quick look at it this morning and they cannot
:49:24. > :49:29.actually find a ministerial great. I am not quite sure where they have
:49:29. > :49:35.got the story from. But I am asking you about the principle. Just in
:49:35. > :49:40.principle. For to tell a newspaper rather than Parliament. I am all in
:49:40. > :49:42.favour of important announcements being made to Parliament, by the
:49:43. > :49:51.Scottish Parliament or Westminster, to parliamentarians before they are
:49:51. > :49:55.leaked. Tom Greatrex, what you think? I wonder if this came out of
:49:55. > :50:00.a conversation Alex Salmond and Rupert Murdoch had last week. But
:50:00. > :50:07.when this happens, it will be a matter for everyone who happens --
:50:07. > :50:13.he lives in Scotland. I think we should get on and get this sorted
:50:13. > :50:16.out so we have the referendum as soon as possible.
:50:16. > :50:20.Growing numbers of people are worried they cannot afford their
:50:20. > :50:25.next fuel bill. One in two says it will put a strain on their finances
:50:25. > :50:31.this year, according to Citizens Advice Scotland. The Government's
:50:31. > :50:35.own figures show 35 % of households are in fuel poverty, which is when
:50:35. > :50:45.you spend more than 10% of your disposable income on energy costs.
:50:45. > :50:52.
:50:52. > :50:55.In at the Western Isles it is This is the bathroom. We have done
:50:55. > :50:59.about nine coats of paint and it is a bathroom paint and it is still
:50:59. > :51:04.coming through. This is the mould on the back of the wardrobe after
:51:04. > :51:12.about a year. Does the smell. It is kind of embarrassing. You can smell
:51:12. > :51:15.it off his close. Their breathing, their skin. It is costing about �9
:51:15. > :51:25.a day to heat the house and more if I put the panel heaters on in the
:51:25. > :51:26.
:51:26. > :51:29.bedroom. I cannot really take my kids out because I cannot afford to.
:51:29. > :51:34.Stacey and her family live in rural East Lothian and spend around 40%
:51:34. > :51:39.of their total income on fuel. Today she is being shown how to use
:51:39. > :51:43.her heating system more effectively to help her cut down her bail.
:51:43. > :51:48.situations like this where it is an off gas area, there is any electric
:51:48. > :51:53.heating in this property, it can be a challenge to find the balance
:51:53. > :51:58.between the warm home and high bills. Scottish Power is the only
:51:58. > :52:03.electricity provider in the area so Stacey is unable to shop around for
:52:03. > :52:09.another supplier. Just before Christmas, the six-speed energy
:52:09. > :52:11.providers in Scotland increased their prices by about 20%.
:52:12. > :52:15.Government, Ofgem and the Scottish Government will need to challenge
:52:15. > :52:20.the six big energy companies to get a better deal for customers.
:52:20. > :52:26.Airdrie, the community has put on a fuel poverty road show to provide
:52:26. > :52:31.advice to locals. I am quite worried about it. I have been
:52:31. > :52:36.turning way he does down, turning my thermostat down. It is the same
:52:36. > :52:43.fuel, so why can't they give the same price? To his by spending two
:52:43. > :52:48.Haugen thief the �1,000 on a school poverty and the Scottish Government
:52:48. > :52:53.is struggling to reach its target of eradicating fuel poverty in the
:52:53. > :52:56.next few years. -- a quarter of a billion pounds. If we can
:52:56. > :53:01.incentivise and health and people to improve their standards of
:53:01. > :53:09.insulation in the Rhone homes... But clearly if the prices keep
:53:09. > :53:13.getting jacked up by a these amounts it becomes a moving target.
:53:13. > :53:18.Your hands were blue. There was no feeling in your feet. And the
:53:18. > :53:23.breath that was coming out of your mouth. It was just like steam.
:53:23. > :53:27.Until a few weeks ago Margaret's house was not connected to gas. She
:53:27. > :53:33.did not just the offers from the energy companies and turned to the
:53:33. > :53:37.Government for help. I have been trying for over two years all the
:53:37. > :53:41.different Government schemes. It is just a case of, we have not got
:53:41. > :53:47.enough funds available. In a new report, the Scottish Parliament's
:53:47. > :53:52.Economy Committee is a -- considering one stop approached to
:53:52. > :53:56.tackle fuel poverty. There is a great deal of confusion about who
:53:56. > :54:01.might be eligible for these schemes and who might be eligible. Margaret
:54:01. > :54:05.has now received a grant from one of the big energy companies and has
:54:05. > :54:11.had her central heating installed. For Stacey and her family, living
:54:11. > :54:15.in an old house in a rural area with no access to gas gives her
:54:15. > :54:21.little choice but to keep turning up the heat.
:54:21. > :54:28.With me now, Trisha McAuley, the deputy director of Consumer Focus
:54:28. > :54:32.Scotland and the co-convener of the Scottish Greens, Patrick Harvie. In
:54:32. > :54:35.one of their reports you said energy companies have money to
:54:35. > :54:39.spend but they are not finding people to spend it on. Is that
:54:39. > :54:43.still the case? Yes, there are a lot of people throughout Scotland
:54:43. > :54:49.are eligible for money from social programmes, environmental
:54:49. > :54:53.programmes, and people particularly who are very fuel poor and the
:54:53. > :54:58.energy company are saying they are having trouble finding these people.
:54:59. > :55:03.So there is a lot more they can do to reach out to put it ages is
:55:03. > :55:08.worked together we could do a lot more to help people. So in the
:55:08. > :55:14.South where the Government says it is up to be able to get in touch,
:55:15. > :55:19.he is that the rank and disease? Yes. People do not just the
:55:19. > :55:22.companies so they are not willing to take the risk. We definitely
:55:22. > :55:27.believe the energy companies should not be sitting back at going out
:55:27. > :55:35.there to find people, being much more active. Patrick, a free repair
:55:35. > :55:40.the political situation, -- if we look at the political situation,
:55:40. > :55:47.the Government in Scotland is saying that the fuel poverty budget
:55:47. > :55:52.will rise by 16 % next year followed by a force of 3% in 2014-
:55:52. > :55:57.2015. But it also has a warm homes fund. Using everything that can be
:55:57. > :56:01.done is being done? Now, not at all. The budget will go up a bit this
:56:02. > :56:05.year but that is only reversing part of last year's cut and so even
:56:05. > :56:09.after that increase we will be spending less on fuel poverty and
:56:10. > :56:13.energy efficiency than we were a few years ago. I was looking back
:56:13. > :56:16.yesterday after I gutters call to invite me on to the programme at
:56:16. > :56:19.the discretion in the Scottish Parliament way back ten years ago
:56:19. > :56:23.in the first session when the target date to eradicate fuel
:56:23. > :56:28.poverty was set and even then people were saying, 15 years, that
:56:28. > :56:32.is a really challenging timescale. 13 % of households in fuel poverty.
:56:32. > :56:35.Where they cause of a million households. Now here we are with
:56:35. > :56:39.four years to go before the target date is reached and we have
:56:39. > :56:45.something like 30% of households in fuel poverty. The best part of a
:56:45. > :56:49.million. We have less than four years to go before we reach that
:56:49. > :56:53.date and will further away from the target by far than we were when the
:56:53. > :56:57.target was set in 2002. So I understand why some of the measures
:56:57. > :57:01.that were put forward were put forward but we are still at this
:57:01. > :57:03.point of having a proliferation of different schemes and did all
:57:03. > :57:09.adding up to a pot that is dramatically less than we need to
:57:09. > :57:13.be spending. When we look at how money is raised for this and the
:57:13. > :57:16.social tariff which goes on to bills, is it time we said that the
:57:16. > :57:20.social tariff is now starting to cost people who cannot afford to
:57:20. > :57:24.pay and let's look at other ways of raising cash for this. What do you
:57:24. > :57:28.think about alternative ways of raising money? The DIS very
:57:28. > :57:32.difficult. The Government, the Scottish Government, has to
:57:32. > :57:37.definitely find more money and lever in funds from the private
:57:37. > :57:44.sector and from energy companies. They called all do a lot more. But
:57:44. > :57:48.the one thing that the Government should be able to do is use it as a
:57:48. > :57:51.preventive spend so for example, there is no strategic influence
:57:51. > :57:56.within the Scottish Government to say, well, we have not got a lot of
:57:56. > :58:00.money, let next -- let's make best use of it and integrate funding for
:58:00. > :58:06.fuel poverty into our health budgets, into existing funding
:58:06. > :58:10.streams in local government, social work departments as well. Patrick,
:58:10. > :58:15.what you think about the current ways of raising money, leading on
:58:16. > :58:20.from what Trisha it said. Do you think that this tariff is
:58:20. > :58:24.necessarily the only way we should be looking at helping people who
:58:24. > :58:33.cannot afford to pay. He it is not the only way to do it. On one level
:58:33. > :58:37.I find it frustrating that people think the level of public funding
:58:37. > :58:41.is a problem, there is no problem putting billions of pounds into
:58:41. > :58:45.building projects. I would like to see councils in Scotland setting up
:58:45. > :58:49.their own energy companies, publicly owned, not just to invest
:58:49. > :58:52.in renewables, and they can do that by borrowing, which they end pay
:58:52. > :58:58.back from the Revenue that renewable energy generates for them,
:58:58. > :59:03.but also by bulk-buying the electricity market. That might be
:59:03. > :59:06.in social housing projects and housing associations. Ultimately,
:59:06. > :59:09.it could be much more widespread because what is happening to the
:59:09. > :59:14.electricity market is about encouraging small new retailers to
:59:14. > :59:17.come on. Local councils could be doing that. Let's look to some of
:59:17. > :59:21.the northern European nations that Alex Salmond constantly compares to
:59:21. > :59:24.an look at what they are already doing. We can empower local
:59:24. > :59:31.Government to do this even now with existing powers we have in Scotland.
:59:31. > :59:34.There is no reason at all we should not start doing that now. Thank you.
:59:34. > :59:38.Thousands of our brightest young men and women are working in jobs
:59:38. > :59:41.are below their abilities. The experiences of the so-called under-
:59:41. > :59:46.employed have been reviewed by Strathclyde University. Student
:59:46. > :59:50.leaders warned that this group may lose out even in an economic upturn,
:59:50. > :59:55.if employers prefer a more recent graduates, so are we creating a
:59:55. > :59:59.lost generation? For our newest crop of graduates,
:59:59. > :00:04.the old assumptions are unreliable. A degree no longer guarantees a job,
:00:04. > :00:08.far less the one they had hoped for, and increasing numbers are under-
:00:08. > :00:13.employed, in other words, in drops significantly below their skills at.
:00:13. > :00:17.It has been three years since I graduated and I expected to work
:00:17. > :00:20.jobs I did not want to do for a while before finding a job that was
:00:20. > :00:25.part of a career but the wait has been longer than I expected.
:00:25. > :00:35.Everybody my own age is working in offices tamping or answering
:00:35. > :00:40.
:00:40. > :00:43.A lot of employers are looking to see that candidates are prepared to
:00:43. > :00:53.roll their sleeves up and do what ever is required in order to earn
:00:53. > :00:57.money. Eilat of us like to see candidates going out and putting a
:00:57. > :01:04.chef been, that is a very good thing to do. But opinions are
:01:04. > :01:09.divided on this. University macro - - the Strathclyde University have
:01:09. > :01:13.said that after graduating, a third of graduates will not be using
:01:13. > :01:19.skills that they have learned. Three years later, 20 % of them
:01:19. > :01:23.will be in the same position. is a big impact on those people who
:01:23. > :01:26.have come through university in terms of their personal experiences,
:01:26. > :01:31.they are not getting the most from their degree. We are worried about
:01:31. > :01:36.the knock-on impact that has on those who are taking jobs away from
:01:36. > :01:39.people who are otherwise -- would otherwise be taking them. There is
:01:39. > :01:42.a real knock-on effect on people who do not have such high
:01:42. > :01:50.qualifications. With every graduation ceremony, the numbers
:01:50. > :01:54.are stacking up. Been employed, or finding jobs, they are stacking up
:01:54. > :02:00.on each other. It depends on how long beak stacking on will go on
:02:00. > :02:06.for. What we require to clear this pile of graduates, it is going to
:02:06. > :02:14.be a high rate of economic growth. I think it would be dishonest to
:02:14. > :02:19.say that this is something I believe is going to happen soon.
:02:19. > :02:27.According to the research, students with post grad qualifications their
:02:28. > :02:30.best in the market, but that is out for many.
:02:31. > :02:36.With me is the new Minister for Youth Employment, the MSP Angela
:02:36. > :02:41.Constance. Let's pick up that first point
:02:41. > :02:48.about postgraduate funding. Your government has an emphasis on that
:02:48. > :02:54.16 to 19-year-olds. Do you think you should look at putting funding
:02:54. > :03:01.into post grad work because that is where the upfront fees are? It is
:03:01. > :03:07.very important to know whether his government does prioritise 16 to
:03:08. > :03:12.19-year-olds. One of the important points but was published a few
:03:12. > :03:16.weeks ago was that we do recognise that all -- not all young people
:03:16. > :03:21.are the same. Graduates do indeed have particular needs. The
:03:21. > :03:26.government is focused on economic recovery before it is essential
:03:26. > :03:31.that we do get graduates into graduate level employment otherwise
:03:31. > :03:34.we will see displacement in the labour market. But I don't think
:03:34. > :03:42.anyone would find anything contentious in that, that is a
:03:42. > :03:46.given. We need jobs in order to have... What do you practically do
:03:46. > :03:49.about things up to help them in the interim and of those jobs become
:03:49. > :03:54.available? Do you have a responsibility there, or should be
:03:54. > :03:57.graduates be on their own? We do have a responsibility to ensure
:03:57. > :04:02.that the young people get the best start to their working lives, that
:04:02. > :04:08.they get the right start in the first rung of the career ladder. In
:04:08. > :04:14.terms of supporting postgraduates, is this government that has access
:04:14. > :04:18.to loans and grants. Nonetheless the picture is mixed. Young
:04:18. > :04:22.Scottish graduates have actually -- are actually doing well to hold
:04:22. > :04:27.their own despite the very difficult economic climate. For
:04:27. > :04:31.example, graduates from Scottish universities are far less likely to
:04:31. > :04:35.be unemployment -- unemployed with it a year of leaving lunar boasted.
:04:35. > :04:43.The employment rate for young graduates between the ages of 20
:04:43. > :04:50.and 24 is 4% higher than the UK figure. Starting salaries is higher
:04:50. > :04:56.in Scotland as well. -- far higher. Two-thirds of graduates in
:04:56. > :04:59.employment are in graduate jobs. That figure is not currently at the
:04:59. > :05:04.pre-recession levels, but it is something we are focused on. We do
:05:04. > :05:08.need to get graduates into graduate level jobs. This is great for the
:05:08. > :05:13.graduates who got the jobs, but I am asking what the sake today who -
:05:13. > :05:18.- to someone who did a degree, worked very hard and has had three,
:05:18. > :05:23.four or five years in a job way below their skills level? It must
:05:23. > :05:28.be discouraging for them, people have done everything expected of
:05:28. > :05:33.them. As a government, we need to make sure that our young people
:05:33. > :05:37.remain encouraged and focused. But I think a positive destination
:05:37. > :05:44.figures for Scottish graduates are very encouraging. Again, highest in
:05:44. > :05:49.the UK, so in terms of... Nearly 89 % of Scots graduates continue their
:05:49. > :05:54.studies, go into work or do a combination. But do you see a
:05:54. > :06:00.particular value in postgraduate studies, especially at a time of
:06:00. > :06:04.economic downturn? You could argue it is cheaper. It has a value
:06:04. > :06:09.because you are building your skills and are used for to the
:06:09. > :06:14.economy when it picks up. Do you see his argument about the value of
:06:14. > :06:17.postgraduate study -- study? Absolutely. The longer young people
:06:17. > :06:22.continue their education, it does increase their long-term
:06:22. > :06:26.employability. But what is also crucial is that the university
:06:26. > :06:32.sector is already engaged with the key employers and that sort of work
:06:32. > :06:40.has to continue. It is far more common these days for
:06:40. > :06:46.professionally accredited teaching universities... The relevance of
:06:46. > :06:50.qualifications to the world of work is improving, I believe. Only last
:06:50. > :06:57.week there was an employer summit for all universities in Scotland
:06:57. > :07:04.where they met and that is very much about university sector doing
:07:04. > :07:08.their bit. It is stepping up to the plate to ensure that we get back to
:07:08. > :07:16.a rising youth unemployment. But if we stick with this and the
:07:16. > :07:20.employment issue because we are looking at that, is it your view
:07:20. > :07:24.that governments do not create jobs because we have heard from quite a
:07:24. > :07:28.lot of young students, that they won the economic circumstances
:07:28. > :07:31.created in which businesses can create jobs? Is there an
:07:31. > :07:38.improvement -- river improvement there? There is always room for
:07:38. > :07:48.improvement. Governments do not directly create jobs. It would not
:07:48. > :07:49.
:07:49. > :07:54.be a surprise to you for me to say the Scottish government...
:07:54. > :08:00.Governments cannot do things to engage with employers and encourage
:08:00. > :08:02.and even in centre vice with the employment of young people. Thank
:08:02. > :08:05.you indeed. We have to leave it there.
:08:05. > :08:08.Following on from the minister there, we can now hear from the
:08:08. > :08:12.Scottish Conservative, Murdo Fraser, who is in our Dundee studio.
:08:12. > :08:19.Thank you for coming in. We are getting a lot of high value at a
:08:19. > :08:22.view today! Let me ask you about this issue of the stacking up of
:08:22. > :08:28.graduates and the possibility of a lost generation. The thing that is
:08:28. > :08:32.a real prospect? It is a serious issue. We have a major problem with
:08:32. > :08:37.youth unemployment. The statistics show that it is the area of the
:08:37. > :08:42.economy where there is the most concern. In terms of what God --
:08:42. > :08:45.the government can do, a number of things need to happen in the
:08:45. > :08:48.university sector itself. Many employers will say they have a
:08:48. > :08:52.challenge with some graduates, they do not have the soft skills that
:08:52. > :08:59.employers are looking for. There is much more that can be done in terms
:08:59. > :09:05.of improving their employability. How are soft skills defined? Sorry
:09:05. > :09:08.to interrupt. For example, how to fit in in a working environment,
:09:08. > :09:14.turning up on time, had to present yourself in the workplace, how to
:09:14. > :09:17.get on with your workmates. That is why work placements and internships
:09:17. > :09:20.are so important. A lot of good work is going on in our
:09:21. > :09:26.universities in terms of equipping students particularly towards the
:09:26. > :09:31.end of their courses in terms of making that transition from
:09:31. > :09:34.education to employment much more seamless. I think that sort of
:09:34. > :09:40.thing but many still encourage. In terms of direct government policy,
:09:40. > :09:46.a lot of graduates do a generalist degree like an arts and they might
:09:46. > :09:51.want to move into a more specialist field, going back to a further
:09:51. > :09:54.education college to do a short course, and what we have seen in
:09:54. > :09:59.the government budget that has been passed by Parliament is a cut of
:09:59. > :10:03.more than �50 million in the budget of our further education colleges.
:10:03. > :10:07.That is completely short-sighted in the current climate where you have
:10:07. > :10:12.got many graduates desperate to get these additional skills to get them
:10:12. > :10:17.into the workplace. Is it your argument that any job is better
:10:17. > :10:21.than no job even if it is way below your skills level was mad in the
:10:21. > :10:24.short term, yes. It was very interesting in the clip you showed
:10:24. > :10:30.with recruitment consultants, that is exactly the point they were
:10:30. > :10:33.making. If you are an employer, the last thing you want is to receive a
:10:33. > :10:37.c been formed someone who has been out of work since they graduated.
:10:37. > :10:41.You would rather have is a new graduate who has had to take in the
:10:41. > :10:45.short term a job below their expectations at a lower pay grade,
:10:45. > :10:49.perhaps even a part-time job, but that is better than not having any
:10:49. > :10:51.employment at all. And we are also joined now by the
:10:51. > :10:54.Scottish Labour Education spokesperson, Hugh Henry MSP, and
:10:54. > :11:00.Laurie Russell, the Chief Executive of the WiseGroup, an organisation
:11:00. > :11:06.which specialises in getting unemployed people back into work.
:11:06. > :11:08.This argument, take any job if you are a graduate, when we hear from
:11:08. > :11:12.Strathclyde there is some evidence that students can get trapped in
:11:12. > :11:20.jobs and there is a long term there with to the outcome, what would you
:11:20. > :11:26.say? -- long-term negative. There are implications for people further
:11:26. > :11:29.down the change. A lot of people come out of school without
:11:29. > :11:32.qualifications and we are working with them. They are looking for
:11:32. > :11:36.entry-level jobs so if graduates take those jobs, it makes it much
:11:36. > :11:42.more difficult for other people to get into work. What is the answer
:11:42. > :11:46.then? I think the answer is that if you go to revitalise the Scottish
:11:46. > :11:49.economy, we need graduates and we need them working in the jobs they
:11:49. > :11:53.are trained for. A lot of it comes down to pretty much more effort
:11:53. > :11:59.into getting graduates to set up their own businesses and to work
:12:00. > :12:02.together to set up their own businesses and to do more about
:12:02. > :12:11.entrepreneurship at further education and higher education
:12:11. > :12:16.levels. I know some is done, but more effort can go into that.
:12:16. > :12:21.point is the government cannot create jobs. Labour have said they
:12:21. > :12:24.have created jobs, but governments do not create jobs, do they?
:12:24. > :12:29.Governments can work with employers to help create the right
:12:29. > :12:35.environment. The problem is that we need to grow the economy. It is not
:12:35. > :12:40.enough just to put people into short-term courses and projects. We
:12:40. > :12:43.need a long-term future for them. We are of a generation that when we
:12:43. > :12:47.came out of university, it was a matter of choosing what you wanted
:12:47. > :12:50.to do, not been desperate to take what was on offer. There are things
:12:50. > :12:56.the government can do to work with the private sector to help young
:12:56. > :13:02.people flourish in an entrepreneurial way. There was a
:13:02. > :13:05.mention of incentives. Could you develop that? It could be, but you
:13:05. > :13:09.need to remember there is a direct consequence of what the Scottish
:13:09. > :13:15.government is doing. There are graduates working and displacing
:13:15. > :13:21.others, in jobs that they are over- qualified for. Alex Salmond that
:13:21. > :13:27.teaching numbers are out 54,000. Over the last few years, teaching
:13:27. > :13:31.numbers have been at 3,000. People cannot get jobs in these fields.
:13:31. > :13:34.Microbiologists are working in pharmacies, youngsters are working
:13:34. > :13:40.in fast food restaurants. We are displacing people across the market
:13:40. > :13:49.so we need to create the jobs. We can also build on the Scottish
:13:49. > :13:53.Enterprise Scheme of talent and helping for a short term goal.
:13:53. > :13:58.of the students week spoke to said they felt there was a status
:13:58. > :14:05.attitude and perception that had to be challenged, and that was that
:14:05. > :14:10.unless you went to university it somehow what you were doing a... It
:14:10. > :14:15.was the attitude of middle-class families. The students would have
:14:15. > :14:20.been better going into practical training. Do we need a big social
:14:20. > :14:24.shift in attitude about what people would be best done in? We probably
:14:24. > :14:31.do. We probably need to shifter by what we mean by jobs. I think any
:14:31. > :14:36.of us could go hour -- around our constituencies and do a lot through
:14:36. > :14:39.projects, environmental projects, communities. We were talking about
:14:39. > :14:42.developing our sports centre earlier. If you have a project like
:14:42. > :14:47.that, if you can work with the employers and construction
:14:47. > :14:50.companies and the funders to make sure that we are always building an
:14:50. > :14:56.opportunity for training for young people to get a chance in those
:14:56. > :15:02.projects, there are different ways that we can find jobs in the
:15:02. > :15:07.existing infrastructure. I think it is about a cultural change, about
:15:07. > :15:12.what we mean by jobs. But also you are right in some communities and
:15:12. > :15:18.families, there is a thing about getting a qualification. Let's
:15:18. > :15:28.remember that further education and higher education people are paid to
:15:28. > :15:32.
:15:32. > :15:35.Murdo Fraser, do you think we need to be quite careful about how we
:15:35. > :15:39.assess the value of apprenticeships? And I am also
:15:39. > :15:42.thinking particularly of the work- experience programme that the
:15:42. > :15:45.coalition Government has put in place in the South which some
:15:45. > :15:49.employers are now saying they do not want anything to do with an
:15:49. > :15:53.campaigners are saying it is slave labour. Do we have to be careful
:15:53. > :16:01.about what is being and is actually of value to the young people taking
:16:01. > :16:05.part? Bear has been a vicious campaign run by far left elements
:16:05. > :16:09.to try to discredit this. But a lot of major companies have withdrawn
:16:09. > :16:14.from it because they agree. They have been scared off. The important
:16:14. > :16:18.statistic to know from the scheme Dan SATs he is that half of those
:16:18. > :16:23.that entered the scheme will end up in permanent employment. So this is
:16:23. > :16:27.delivering for 50% of those involved a permanent job by the end
:16:27. > :16:34.of it. I think that is an extremely worthwhile initiative for people
:16:34. > :16:38.who otherwise might be facing many more years of unemployment.
:16:38. > :16:43.work experience worth anything if you do not get a job at the end of
:16:43. > :16:45.it? They can be good quality work experience programmes that help
:16:45. > :16:50.young people, give MAC the, give them a reference and give them
:16:50. > :16:55.skills. What I think people are concerned about is that it is not a
:16:55. > :16:59.good quality scheme and it seems to be replacing full-time labour.
:16:59. > :17:02.thank you. Another of our series looking ahead
:17:02. > :17:06.to the key themes in the council elections. A few weeks ago we look
:17:06. > :17:11.at how Labour and the SNP was set to fight a battle for CRASBO but
:17:11. > :17:15.this week, different protagonists. The Conservatives and the Liberal
:17:15. > :17:18.Democrats have been in collision in the Borders for five years. How can
:17:18. > :17:28.they work together now and fight against each other for votes in a
:17:28. > :17:30.
:17:30. > :17:40.In the Borders, there is much to commemorate the great battles of
:17:40. > :17:43.
:17:43. > :17:48.But in the council now traditional adversaries have learnt to become
:17:48. > :17:53.colleagues. As with most councils, no one party has an overall
:17:53. > :17:56.majority and here, that has led to a situation that is almost
:17:57. > :18:05.Westminster in miniature, the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats
:18:05. > :18:09.In the council chamber, things are finely balanced between three
:18:09. > :18:12.coalition partners. 12 Conservatives and 10 Liberal
:18:12. > :18:18.Democrats are joined by three independent councillors. They are
:18:18. > :18:24.very well deserved... Coalition was nothing new five years ago but what
:18:24. > :18:27.was new was the way the coalition came together. Until 2007, we had
:18:27. > :18:32.been independent and conservative. We have formed the administration
:18:32. > :18:37.of the council. In 2007, most of the independents were washed away,
:18:37. > :18:41.so more Liberals came in and a few more Conservatives. So we thought
:18:41. > :18:45.the pragmatic and right thing to do was to join up. They year or two
:18:45. > :18:50.after the election we got together to compare manifestos, to see if
:18:50. > :18:53.there was any common ground. Basically, within a couple of days,
:18:53. > :18:58.with followed up with a draft programme of work of what we would
:18:58. > :19:04.like to do in the next five years. We Conservatives do like to be
:19:04. > :19:07.pragmatic and practical and we like to do things we can actually do.
:19:07. > :19:12.The tough bit was agreeing with the others, particularly the Liberals,
:19:12. > :19:16.on what was do-able, because we do not like to say we are going to do
:19:16. > :19:20.a thing and then not do it. Once that was done, we have had a couple
:19:20. > :19:23.of spats but on the whole it has been pretty good. There was a point
:19:23. > :19:32.about 18 months ago when the Scottish Liberal Democrats, my grip,
:19:32. > :19:37.was within that of leading the commission. We considered that the
:19:37. > :19:41.programme of work we focus on with our constituents is the most
:19:41. > :19:46.important thing. Commissions always involve compromise and supporters
:19:46. > :19:49.of the party may feel they class is either half-full or half-empty but
:19:49. > :19:52.can the council elections, how well each of the two big parties in the
:19:52. > :19:57.coalition here manage to make distinct appeals to the local
:19:57. > :20:02.voters? We have brought rigorous financial management and we have
:20:02. > :20:06.simply got to think ahead. We have not just fought for this period of
:20:06. > :20:14.office. We have thought ahead. We have actually got capital, a
:20:14. > :20:17.financial plans going forward five years. We can only relate to the
:20:18. > :20:25.public in terms of the issues as we see them and the public are telling
:20:25. > :20:27.us. Principally, I would say that is economic development. However
:20:27. > :20:32.the numbers stack up after the election, it is unlike the one
:20:32. > :20:36.party alone will be able to spin its own Web. Labour have no
:20:36. > :20:40.councillors here just now but the SNP and independence will be
:20:40. > :20:44.fighting hard. And both coalition partners will be competing for
:20:44. > :20:54.every vote. But also hoping it will not be able to live moment
:20:54. > :20:56.
:20:56. > :21:03.Jamie will be back with another piece on the council elections in a
:21:03. > :21:07.few weeks but now, the headlines. Good afternoon. It has been
:21:07. > :21:11.reported that the Scottish Government's preferred date for a
:21:11. > :21:14.referendum on independence is Saturday 18th October 2014. The
:21:14. > :21:18.claim is made in the first edition of the Scottish Sun to be published
:21:18. > :21:25.on a sunbed. Speaking to Sunday Politics: Earlier, Stewart Hosie
:21:25. > :21:31.said the date is being considered. It is certainly a possibility. 18th
:21:31. > :21:35.October is certainly in the autumn of 2014. It is a Saturday and not a
:21:35. > :21:40.Thursday and that is one of the areas that the Scottish Parliament
:21:40. > :21:44.is consulting on. Talks are continuing for the future
:21:44. > :21:47.of two emergency debates covering Scottish waters. They are currently
:21:48. > :21:51.operating on a temporary basis for the Maritime and Coastguard Agency.
:21:51. > :21:54.They were due to be withdrawn last year to save money.
:21:54. > :21:58.Labour Party members in Falkirk will meet this evening for the
:21:58. > :22:02.first time since their MP was charged with three counts of common
:22:02. > :22:06.assault. Eric Joyce was arrested following an incident in the House
:22:06. > :22:10.of Commons bar last week. Mr Joyce will not attend, because he is
:22:10. > :22:12.currently suspended from the party. Rugby and Scotland face a tough
:22:12. > :22:16.encounter against France in Six Nations at Murrayfield this
:22:16. > :22:21.afternoon. They are still looking for a victory in this year's
:22:21. > :22:23.Championship, despite decent performances against England and
:22:23. > :22:32.Wales, they lost their two opening games.
:22:32. > :22:35.We have a lot of cloud today, particularly for western Scotland
:22:35. > :22:42.where it will be quite a misty and murky afternoon with outbreaks of
:22:42. > :22:48.patchy rain, turning heavy for a time. Across central and eastern
:22:48. > :22:53.parts it will be brighter. In the North East, we will see our top
:22:53. > :23:02.temperature today of 12 Celsius. More typically nine or ten. So very
:23:02. > :23:04.much on the wild side for this time More from the newsroom at 6:10pm
:23:04. > :23:09.this evening. In a moment we will be discussing
:23:09. > :23:19.the bigger events coming up this week at Holyrood. First, let's take
:23:19. > :23:19.
:23:20. > :23:27.a look back at The Week In 60 A tweeting Rupert Murdoch suggests
:23:27. > :23:32.he supports independence for Scotland. He's tweet...
:23:32. > :23:36.Rangers' tax debt continues to rise and financial documents have been
:23:36. > :23:40.provided to Strathclyde Police. hope that their way will be found
:23:41. > :23:44.forward to allow it ranges to meet their obligations to the taxpayer.
:23:44. > :23:49.The Falkirk Labour MP Eric Joyce has been charged with assault
:23:49. > :23:52.following an incident at a bar in the House of Commons, and suspended
:23:52. > :23:58.from the Labour Party. The Royal Bank of Scotland has
:23:58. > :24:04.reported a pre-tax loss that is almost double the last it made in
:24:04. > :24:07.2010. Big losses, in a strange way, horror sign of success. It is a
:24:07. > :24:10.sign we're taking the medicine at RBS needs.
:24:10. > :24:14.A documentary showing Billy Connolly on tour in Northern
:24:14. > :24:20.Ireland at the height of the violence in 1975 has been screened
:24:20. > :24:24.at the Glasgow Film Festival this weekend.
:24:24. > :24:33.Spring conference time is fast approaching with both Scottish
:24:33. > :24:37.Labour and the Liberal Democrats holding theirs next week.
:24:37. > :24:41.And with me to look ahead we have the political commentator and
:24:41. > :24:48.author David Torrance and the editor of Holyrood Magazine in our
:24:48. > :24:52.Edinburgh studio. Before we go on to the conference season, what you
:24:52. > :24:57.make of the day of destiny prediction in the Scottish Sun?
:24:57. > :25:00.is a good scoop for a brand new Sunday newspaper. Of course the
:25:00. > :25:06.there are cabinets. The Scottish Government source says it is a date
:25:06. > :25:10.they are lining up, so it is just a possibility. It would not be on the
:25:10. > :25:14.front page go unless they have had a pretty firm steer from that
:25:14. > :25:19.source. Are you putting it in your diary, Mandy Rhodes? I made a
:25:19. > :25:22.decision this morning not to bite the newspaper at and I have been
:25:22. > :25:26.advising the Scottish Government for the same reasons that perhaps
:25:26. > :25:33.they should not have given any exclusive to the paper. But we will
:25:33. > :25:36.see. But is it appropriate, it is accurate, and not just a best guess,
:25:37. > :25:40.is it appropriate that this is given to renew his paper, which
:25:40. > :25:44.happens to be owned by Rupert Murdoch, rather than being told to
:25:44. > :25:49.Parliament? No, my reasons for not supporting the paper is that we
:25:49. > :25:53.seem to have forgotten quickly when the News of the World was faulty.
:25:53. > :25:56.Secondly, hundreds of journalists and other people lost their jobs.
:25:56. > :26:01.And there is an ongoing police investigation and the Leveson
:26:01. > :26:05.Inquiry. Mike view is that this is Mr Murdoch putting two fingers up
:26:05. > :26:09.at our sensibilities and intellect and I feel sad that the SNP
:26:09. > :26:16.Government felt they could first welcome his tweeting about
:26:16. > :26:19.supporting the SNP stands but also give him an exclusive. David, we
:26:19. > :26:24.have before Scotland meeting on Tuesday pensively Scotland meeting
:26:24. > :26:28.in Glasgow on Thursday. Everyone is talking about Devo Max,
:26:28. > :26:32.Independence Lite, independence, what you'd think will actually come
:26:32. > :26:35.out of what is coming this week? For all when you think we may get
:26:35. > :26:38.clarity in the different propositions, who is putting them
:26:38. > :26:44.forward and who they imagine will be able to enforce them if they are
:26:44. > :26:48.adopted? What we have here is a twin-track process. The Siddick
:26:49. > :26:53.Scotland exercise is geared towards, or the Scottish Government hopes it
:26:53. > :26:58.is geared towards Devo Max, which the Unionist Party considered to be
:26:58. > :27:02.independence by another name. The Ivo Plus option which I think is
:27:02. > :27:05.the more significant of the two he is quite fully developed. Reform
:27:05. > :27:11.Scotland have already set out precisely what they mean by Bath
:27:11. > :27:15.and they are now ready for a cross- party exercise to lend it more
:27:15. > :27:21.credibility. But importantly, I think that is the direction of
:27:21. > :27:25.travel, devolution plans, of the opposition parties. Mandy, we know
:27:25. > :27:28.that we have the spring conferences for Scottish Labour and the Lib
:27:28. > :27:33.Dems as welcoming up. What do you think will be the messages that
:27:33. > :27:38.have to come out, first of all, say, from Labour? For the onus is on
:27:38. > :27:41.Labour to start meeting the opposition fightback around the
:27:41. > :27:47.independence referendum. What I am saying in my column tomorrow is
:27:47. > :27:51.that I think the leader has adopted it to stand up and paint a picture
:27:51. > :27:54.of the vision they have fought Scotland. They have a lot to say
:27:54. > :28:00.about what they don't want about independence but we still have no
:28:00. > :28:04.clarity about what they would have. Their leader's position is probably
:28:04. > :28:10.not very far from the rest of Scotland. She is not an arts
:28:10. > :28:14.unionist, she wants more powers and she needs to articulate that.
:28:14. > :28:18.that has not happened with enough clarity? No, people are left
:28:18. > :28:24.wondering what is going to happen and even with devolution plus and
:28:25. > :28:28.the launch this week of that, as David says, Reform Scotland have
:28:28. > :28:32.beefed out their own proposals, been around for more than a year.
:28:32. > :28:35.Why haven't the opposition parties got behind that by now? For their
:28:35. > :28:39.bosses offer last week from Willie Rennie to say if Ming Campbell is
:28:39. > :28:42.looking at all is, why don't you see what we can come Upwood and we
:28:42. > :28:48.can look at that constructively? Do you think it's likely that the
:28:48. > :28:56.other opposition parties would say, yes, banks, we would love to do
:28:56. > :29:00.that. I interviewed Menzies Campbell and Johann Lamont are to
:29:00. > :29:04.discuss this. They have started to flesh out what they will do as a
:29:04. > :29:10.joint effort in the fight back against independence. So that is
:29:10. > :29:13.happening. We just needed you the details. Usage as there is a joint
:29:13. > :29:19.effort. The individual parties, and Renault are going to have to appeal
:29:19. > :29:25.to their own bases if they are going to turn out a no to
:29:25. > :29:29.independence? Yes, and what you will see in the weeks ahead with
:29:30. > :29:33.the party conferences is each party doing precisely that, setting out
:29:33. > :29:39.their constitutional pitch, or is the direction of travel and how
:29:39. > :29:44.they propose to bite the no campaign, an umbrella campaign will
:29:44. > :29:47.follow thereafter. I also understand that Labour are working
:29:47. > :29:52.towards it articulating their constitutional vision towards the
:29:52. > :29:56.end of this year, in the autumn. That is the risk that if people do
:29:56. > :30:02.not seem to... Obviously they need time to formulate what they're
:30:02. > :30:07.going to say. Is there any sense that these other parties are being
:30:07. > :30:10.cracked along, perhaps not the Lib Dems, dropped into a situation that
:30:10. > :30:20.their heart and soul is not really in? Will that be a problem for
:30:20. > :30:24.them? To an extent, DS. The Lib Dems have a consistent ideological
:30:24. > :30:29.manifesto of what they want. Be other two parties to some extent
:30:29. > :30:33.feel forced to say and do something. Although there are sections of
:30:33. > :30:36.Labour and the Conservatives who genuinely believe in more powers,
:30:36. > :30:42.others, such as Alistair Darling, feel compelled to offer something
:30:42. > :30:47.because they feel politically they have no choice. Mandy, juicing
:30:47. > :30:51.there will be no single leader for the Senate Independent's campaign?
:30:51. > :30:55.-- do you think? The problem will not be but there has to be.