:00:40. > :00:46.Good afternoon. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. David Cameron
:00:46. > :00:51.opens the door to live referendum on of the relationship we the E. We
:00:51. > :00:58.ask Nigel for arch if the Prime Minister has stolen his party's
:00:58. > :01:06.most popular political tune. Should the party is apologise for their
:01:06. > :01:09.own record on regulation? We ask Rachel Reeves to come clean. With
:01:09. > :01:14.all that and the economic crisis, you would think that the Government
:01:14. > :01:21.would have a enough on its plate. Not so. We asked the Leader of the
:01:21. > :01:23.lots whether they can win the fight to save the second chamber.
:01:23. > :01:31.And on Sunday Politics Scotland, how Scotland is failing its
:01:31. > :01:35.children in care and what is being done to help them. With the
:01:35. > :01:38.campaigns launched, where now for the referendum debate? We will be
:01:38. > :01:48.speaking to the new chief executive of the Independent's campaign,
:01:48. > :01:59.
:01:59. > :02:05.Good afternoon. The prime minister has suggested the possibility of a
:02:05. > :02:15.referendum at some time in the future on the relationship with
:02:15. > :02:15.
:02:15. > :26:32.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1457 seconds
:26:32. > :26:36.We are still in very early days. There is just over a week to go
:26:36. > :26:41.before the House of Commons has to take a decision on a House of
:26:41. > :26:46.Commons motion. Decisions will take place and discussions will take
:26:46. > :26:50.place between the parties. They have not told us how many days they
:26:50. > :26:53.want. A 10 you proceed with that
:26:53. > :26:59.situation? I think it will be very difficult
:26:59. > :27:03.to spend weeks and months. We must not second-guess the House of
:27:03. > :27:08.Commons. Most of them want to get down to discussing the important
:27:08. > :27:12.issues of what is happening in the second chamber, rather than relying
:27:12. > :27:17.on a Labour Party tactics to delay discussion again and again.
:27:17. > :27:22.People will find it very strange that in the middle of these crises
:27:22. > :27:32.and events in Syria and elsewhere that the Commons floor is dominated,
:27:32. > :27:36.week after week, by laws reformed. -- by Lords reform.
:27:36. > :27:42.I think that is why we will see support for a sensible programme of
:27:42. > :27:47.development by government. We have had referendums on all
:27:47. > :27:52.sorts of issues recently, why not a referendum on this major
:27:52. > :27:56.constitutional change? We have had very few national
:27:56. > :28:03.referendums and at the last general election all three party manifestos
:28:03. > :28:07.agreed that there should be a democratic reform. They have agreed
:28:07. > :28:13.over the last decade or so. They said they would try to find a
:28:13. > :28:19.consensus, not that they would do We are yet to see whether we can
:28:19. > :28:23.achieve a consensus. Referendums are expensive. �80 million on,
:28:24. > :28:28.ostensibly, asking the people to agree something that the political
:28:28. > :28:33.parties have already agreed. I think this is a political tactic.
:28:33. > :28:38.This was put in their manifesto at the last minute before the last
:28:38. > :28:45.election. They never mentioned it in the past and they did not have
:28:45. > :28:48.won in 1999 when they threw out hereditary Peers.
:28:48. > :28:52.There does need to be some discussion within government about
:28:52. > :28:57.the most appropriate way of continuing.
:28:57. > :29:02.Speaking of a referendum, at the same question as that that I put to
:29:02. > :29:08.Nigel for arch, I'll be closer to a referendum on Europe after the
:29:08. > :29:15.Prime Minister's article? We are closer than we were but we
:29:15. > :29:17.are not yet clear on what the basis of that referendum will be. He
:29:17. > :29:22.understands what the need is for a referendum but we must decide what
:29:22. > :29:27.it is about first before making that historic decision.
:29:27. > :29:36.They do you very much for joining us. It is approaching 12:30pm. You
:29:36. > :29:41.are watching the Sunday Politics. Good afternoon and welcome to
:29:41. > :29:44.Sunday Politics in Scotland. Coming up on the programme. He stood
:29:44. > :29:53.behind the First Minister at the launch of the Yes campaign, now
:29:53. > :29:58.Blair Jenkins steps up to lead the campaign foreign independent
:29:58. > :30:04.Scotland. Also coming up, Scotland's secret
:30:04. > :30:09.shame. The scandal of how badly we are failing our children in care.
:30:09. > :30:15.And tackling the country's second biggest killer. We asking why
:30:15. > :30:18.coronary heart disease is still taking so many lives.
:30:18. > :30:22.The campaigns on both sides of the referendum debate are officially up
:30:22. > :30:27.and running so how will each side go about trying to win your support
:30:27. > :30:32.between now and polling day? Earlier this week, Blair Jenkins,
:30:33. > :30:39.the former head of News at BBC Scotland, was named the chief
:30:39. > :30:49.executive of the Yes Scotland group. He is tipped to join me now.
:30:49. > :30:49.
:30:49. > :30:54.Congratulations. -- he is here to try me now.
:30:54. > :31:00.How do you stop this campaign becoming just an SNP campaign?
:31:00. > :31:04.This is going to be a big umbrella campaign. The yes campaign is for
:31:04. > :31:11.anyone in Scotland to come together and fight on this one issue which
:31:11. > :31:16.is a hugely important issue. While the SNP, as one would expect, will
:31:16. > :31:21.be very active in the campaign and prominent in it, it will be a much
:31:21. > :31:27.bigger and broader alliance. Where does the fund income from for
:31:27. > :31:32.this? How much of the funding, looking at the practicalities, will
:31:32. > :31:36.come from the SNP? If there is a lot of funding from them, or will
:31:36. > :31:42.there not be an impression that it is about their agenda if they are
:31:42. > :31:48.bankrolling its? The large for yet Scotland came
:31:48. > :31:55.partly from the money that came from Edwin Morgan. Some of the
:31:55. > :32:01.funding from those people have been done using the launch period. --
:32:01. > :32:05.had been used in the launch period. I want be yet Scotland campaign to
:32:05. > :32:11.be self financing. You have a limit on the amount that
:32:11. > :32:14.people who are not on the electoral roll in Scotland can donates. How
:32:14. > :32:18.much is it and why was that decision-taking?
:32:18. > :32:23.Most people in Scotland do feel quite strongly that the referendum
:32:24. > :32:29.campaign should be determined by those who live in Scotland and will
:32:29. > :32:34.make this decision. We will not accept donations above �500 from
:32:34. > :32:38.anyone who is not on the alleged oral register in Scotland. That is
:32:38. > :32:44.important to make sure the people taking the decision instalments are
:32:44. > :32:50.contributing to the campaign. Could it be a tactical error if the
:32:50. > :32:56.no campaign it is funded by a large donors in England?
:32:56. > :33:06.I hope they will be as transparent about their funding as we will be.
:33:06. > :33:07.
:33:07. > :33:13.Is it appropriate that you asked people to sign a declaration of
:33:13. > :33:18.independence. This may not be the case. It was reported that you had
:33:18. > :33:23.conceded it was a mistake to asked 1 million Scots to sign this
:33:23. > :33:26.declaration of independence? That is absolutely not true.
:33:26. > :33:31.Can you clarify your position on whether there should be a second
:33:31. > :33:35.question? My position is that I am leading
:33:35. > :33:40.the Yes Scotland campaign. We will only be campaigning for
:33:40. > :33:45.independence. That is the campaign I am leading. Most people in
:33:45. > :33:49.Scotland at the moment need to keep an open mind of the discussion. I
:33:49. > :33:53.have an interesting experience over the last few weeks were I have
:33:53. > :33:57.spoken on political issues and a lot of people have been in search
:33:57. > :34:03.to say they agree with me and others are not sure. Let us meet
:34:03. > :34:07.for coffee and talk about it. I have been drinking a lot of coffee
:34:07. > :34:10.recently. My experience is that people are open to the conversation
:34:10. > :34:15.and are highly persuadable of the arguments for an independent
:34:16. > :34:19.Scotland. That is what we need to Will you be putting forward policy
:34:19. > :34:26.ideas? I think people contributing to the
:34:26. > :34:30.debate will put forward policy ideas. I am sure the SNP and the
:34:30. > :34:34.Greens and the s and -- the SSP will be making policy contributions.
:34:34. > :34:40.The Yes Scotland position is we will be campaigning for a Yes vote
:34:40. > :34:43.in the referendum in 2014 and it is not to the political parties
:34:43. > :34:48.thereafter in the general election to set out their policy agenda for
:34:48. > :34:52.people in Scotland. It is useful to clarify that
:34:52. > :34:56.earlier. Because that has been quite widely reported. It is
:34:56. > :35:01.interesting how the media has been interacting with S. I hope this
:35:01. > :35:05.quote is accurate. You said it you hoped we could have a sensible and
:35:05. > :35:10.mature debate free from Punch and Judy confrontations and one
:35:10. > :35:14.Scotland can be proud of. Do you have a concern that that it is not
:35:14. > :35:18.just winning that matters but how you win because of the residue of
:35:18. > :35:24.what could be left in scutter society in general if this is not a
:35:24. > :35:29.decent campaign? -- in Scottish society.
:35:29. > :35:34.Some journalists in the week did invite me to make adverse comments
:35:34. > :35:42.about the people in the no campaign on and off The Record. I will not
:35:42. > :35:49.be criticising individuals in the no campaign. The important thing to
:35:49. > :35:53.recognise here is that the day after the referendum in 2014, all
:35:53. > :35:56.the people involved in the no campaign will become citizens of
:35:56. > :36:01.the new Scotland and will be determined at along with the worst
:36:01. > :36:06.of us to make Scotland the country it could be. I think everyone wants
:36:06. > :36:09.a really good, positive, constructive campaign. One of the
:36:09. > :36:14.things I want to bring to this is a lot of high quality information to
:36:14. > :36:19.as many people as possible so it is a well informed debate.
:36:19. > :36:23.Do you think that is what we are seeing now in the social media? Do
:36:23. > :36:29.you think the arguments that are entirely constructive?
:36:29. > :36:35.It is not. We are really in the early days of social media. I do
:36:35. > :36:39.not think the ground rules have been properly sorted out. I do not
:36:39. > :36:44.think anonymous posting is a good idea as it encourages people to get
:36:44. > :36:48.into negative territory. If you look at America website, you get
:36:48. > :36:54.much more vicious, hostile and aggressive things said thing you do
:36:54. > :36:58.here. What people are using social media for is to engage with people
:36:59. > :37:05.in the campaign. A lot of people who asked me what they can do to
:37:05. > :37:08.help, I say to them something concrete. I say to them, if in the
:37:08. > :37:13.next two years you can convince one other person you know from your
:37:13. > :37:16.family and friends are your workplace who is currently not
:37:17. > :37:21.intending to vote for independence, that will make for a clear majority
:37:21. > :37:28.in favour of an independent Scotland.
:37:28. > :37:33.Do you accept that there is a newspaper bias as the SNP claimed?
:37:33. > :37:38.It do you think that will be an issue in getting the message out?
:37:38. > :37:43.The media message is important in creating the need music of any
:37:43. > :37:48.campaign. It is a free country. Some newspapers blur the difference
:37:48. > :37:53.between news and opinion. It is a free press and we will engage with
:37:53. > :37:56.that press. What will be the role of BBC
:37:56. > :38:00.Scotland? We needed to be an honest broker
:38:00. > :38:03.and continue to provide high quality information.
:38:04. > :38:07.Are you satisfied it is doing that as it exists now?
:38:07. > :38:12.I have nothing to declare to the contrary.
:38:12. > :38:17.Joining me now from Edinburgh is Richard Baker one of the five
:38:17. > :38:22.directors of the Better Together campaign. Thank you for coming in.
:38:22. > :38:28.Can we look first at the funding issue. Penny give us more clarity
:38:28. > :38:33.today about who will be playing for your campaign? -- paying for your
:38:33. > :38:37.campaign? There are no rules governing
:38:37. > :38:42.donations as yet. Despite that, we will voluntary abide by the
:38:42. > :38:47.appropriate legislation which is the elections and referendums Act
:38:47. > :38:54.which means we will not be accepting foreign donations and we
:38:54. > :38:58.will be publishing on our website all donations over �7,500. When
:38:58. > :39:02.Blair Jenkins talked about transparency in that, I am happy to
:39:02. > :39:06.agree with him about that and we will have the same level of
:39:06. > :39:16.donation transparency. Do you think it will be like the
:39:16. > :39:17.
:39:17. > :39:23.Yes campaign, a limit on the amount people can give.
:39:23. > :39:26.We will publish the names of all donors over �7,500. But she will
:39:26. > :39:31.accept money from anyone anywhere in the UK?
:39:31. > :39:39.Will not accept foreign donations but we do not regard the rest of
:39:39. > :39:47.the UK as a foreign land. We are campaigning to keep the UK together.
:39:47. > :39:53.The SNP have a track record of accepting donations from overseas.
:39:53. > :39:58.Do you have any concerns that, at as the current speculation has been,
:39:58. > :40:02.most of the donations will confront a Conservative donors in the south.
:40:02. > :40:06.Do you have concerns that the perception will be that the
:40:07. > :40:13.campaign is bankrolled by so many interests, as opposed to the Yes
:40:13. > :40:16.campaign which is funded by donations from people in Scotland.
:40:16. > :40:22.This is the start of our campaign. We have had a very successful
:40:22. > :40:26.launch last week, based on people living in Scottish communities. We
:40:26. > :40:30.will push had for donations in Scotland. I hope we will see
:40:30. > :40:33.sizable donations from within Scotland.
:40:33. > :40:40.If we look at what the Better Together campaign is offering
:40:40. > :40:45.people, what will that be? If it is no to independence, what is it?
:40:45. > :40:50.Clearly, it is Scotland's remaining in the United Kingdom. We will put
:40:50. > :40:55.together a very positive case on why Scotland benefits in being part
:40:55. > :41:00.of the UK in terms of our position in the world, economy and shared
:41:00. > :41:04.society. We will put forward that positive case about the important
:41:04. > :41:10.question of whether Scotland remains in the United Kingdom.
:41:10. > :41:13.Blair Jenkins has said that he has no campaign based on any other
:41:13. > :41:18.question. It is about the fundamental question of remaining
:41:18. > :41:24.part of the UK. If it is yes, economically and
:41:24. > :41:28.socially, what vision do you offer. The Yes campaign say this is what
:41:28. > :41:31.Scotland will look like in 30 years. What is your patient of what
:41:32. > :41:36.Scotland will look like in 30 years' time?
:41:36. > :41:41.People can see now the benefits we have had from the UK, particularly
:41:41. > :41:49.in troubled economic times. The Bank of England's bailed out our
:41:49. > :41:52.banks. I have to say, when we look at the SNP of Blair Jenkins's
:41:52. > :42:01.campaign for independence, they are entirely unclear on how Scotland
:42:01. > :42:04.will look in 30 years. Now they say we will keep the Bank of England
:42:04. > :42:09.and the pounds and we will even still be British. A lot of people
:42:09. > :42:19.are saying, what is the point? We need far more clarity from the
:42:19. > :42:20.
:42:20. > :42:25.campaign to break up Britain about We have no clarity from sure
:42:25. > :42:30.campaign about increased powers, there is no clarity there. Without
:42:30. > :42:34.that, all what do you offer? There are campaigns about Scotland
:42:35. > :42:39.remaining in the United Kingdom. The question of extra powers is for
:42:39. > :42:44.other forms. To clarify this point, I have you saying that there is not
:42:44. > :42:48.a specific vision you can offer? If you do not have a specific vision,
:42:48. > :42:51.if what you are offering is Stanion the United Kingdom and muddling
:42:51. > :42:56.along in a managed decline. What is your positive alternative for
:42:56. > :43:00.Scotland and when will we know the details for that? I think that
:43:00. > :43:03.staying a the United Kingdom is a positive alternative from
:43:04. > :43:11.independents, and people know what the United Kingdom means. We know
:43:11. > :43:16.the strengths of the UK and we know the challenges. I have to say to
:43:16. > :43:18.you, and you were not asking Blair Jenkins to define his vision for
:43:18. > :43:23.independence, there are huge unanswered questions about what
:43:23. > :43:27.independence will actually mean. The SNP have been changing their
:43:27. > :43:31.few week in week it. He did not ask Clare Jenkins whether he believes
:43:31. > :43:38.that an independent Scotland should remain in or out of NATO. To
:43:38. > :43:42.suggest that we have a lack of clarity of vision that the SNP have
:43:42. > :43:46.is simply absolute nonsense. We come to a second question, it
:43:46. > :43:49.should be quite clear that this is a fundamental issue which until
:43:49. > :43:54.recently all the main parties agree should be a clear a single question
:43:54. > :43:56.about whether Scotland should be in or out of the United Kingdom. Alex
:43:56. > :44:00.Salmond is taking his mind on that because he knows he will not get
:44:00. > :44:03.the answer he wants from the first question that people will now be
:44:03. > :44:07.asking why he is running chicken from the clear debate that we
:44:07. > :44:11.should have in this country over the future of Scotland and I want
:44:11. > :44:14.to engage in that debate. I think that Blair Jenkins was looking to
:44:15. > :44:22.engage that the bid constructively as well. I want to ask you about
:44:22. > :44:25.that any moment, but just for the avoidance of doubt, Blair Jenkins's
:44:25. > :44:28.job is not to articulate specific policy areas as you suggested, he
:44:28. > :44:32.makes that clear in his interview. He will not promote specific
:44:32. > :44:36.policies because the policies in the Independent gripping, the
:44:36. > :44:41.parties that support that, they could have different policies. His
:44:41. > :44:44.job was to put forward the argument for an independent Scotland, but
:44:44. > :44:48.not policy specific. There is no point in asking them for policy
:44:48. > :44:55.specifics. He wants an end to Punch and Judy politics, will that be
:44:55. > :44:59.possible? Can be put forward a positive case for Scotland being in
:44:59. > :45:03.the United kind? There is a positive case. We must move beyond
:45:03. > :45:08.process questions and on to a clear debate about the future of Scotland.
:45:08. > :45:11.I hope we can move on to that clear debate as quickly as possible. We
:45:11. > :45:15.will put forward a positive case for Scotland remaining in a the
:45:15. > :45:20.United Kingdom and will be arguing that England-Wales and the Northern
:45:20. > :45:24.Ireland and Scotland all benefit by being part of the United Kingdom. I
:45:24. > :45:29.do think that we will have a substantial debate and that the
:45:29. > :45:32.media will allow us to have this debate.
:45:32. > :45:35.The most discriminated against Great in our society, that is how
:45:35. > :45:40.one charity described children who are taken from their homes
:45:40. > :45:43.principally because of abuse and neglect and put into care. MSPs are
:45:43. > :45:47.now investigating why these children who are most acutely in
:45:47. > :45:50.need of stability permanency and loving relationships are
:45:50. > :45:53.systematically denied the structures and support which would
:45:53. > :45:57.enable them to thrive. Holyrood has just launched an inquiry into when
:45:57. > :46:04.children should be taken into care prompted by shocking findings from
:46:04. > :46:09.an earlier report into how look after children fare in school.
:46:09. > :46:11.There are 16,000 looked after children in Scotland. A recent
:46:11. > :46:15.report by the education committee looking at their educational
:46:15. > :46:18.achievement levels revealed stark findings.
:46:18. > :46:23.He suggested that youngsters in residential care and foster homes
:46:23. > :46:27.if performed about ten times worse in school than the average child in
:46:27. > :46:32.Scotland. The report also found that looked after children left in
:46:32. > :46:36.their family homes perform about ten times worse in exams than their
:46:36. > :46:40.counterparts in residential and foster care.
:46:40. > :46:44.The last finding particularly surprised MSPs, as their
:46:44. > :46:47.expectation had been that it looked after children left in the family
:46:47. > :46:52.home would do better educationally than those who went into other
:46:52. > :46:57.homes. Politicians concluded that the decision-making process leading
:46:57. > :47:01.to where a child is placed for care has a crucial impact on a child's
:47:01. > :47:04.life chances. The Education Committee's latest
:47:04. > :47:08.inquiry will look at whether the speed of decision-making in cases
:47:09. > :47:12.is appropriate, whether there is a presumption that children whose
:47:12. > :47:17.parents have addictions should be removed from the home, and it will
:47:17. > :47:21.also look at the balance of the Visa sign of children's care and
:47:21. > :47:24.ask whether the child's rights are being put before the parents. MSPs
:47:24. > :47:30.will now spend the next six months taking evidence that they hope will
:47:30. > :47:37.shine a light on where the state system is failing children in care.
:47:37. > :47:41.With me now he's the convenor of Holyrood's education committee and
:47:41. > :47:47.the President of the Association for social work and the chief
:47:47. > :47:52.executive of the charity, who cares Scotland?
:47:52. > :47:55.First of all, you charity exists to give children in care a voice, what
:47:55. > :48:04.do you think that we have to hear at this stage that we are not
:48:04. > :48:10.heeding yet? Nelson Mandela said, the most revolutionary aspect of a
:48:10. > :48:14.society's soul has hit its bed -- is how it treats its children and
:48:14. > :48:20.young people. We believe that Scotland has some soul-searching to
:48:20. > :48:23.do when it comes to her looked after children in care. We have it
:48:23. > :48:28.comes that we cannot be proud of, and we believe that our society as
:48:28. > :48:32.well as our politics and civil servants need to question their
:48:33. > :48:36.awareness of this issue. These are our children when we take them into
:48:37. > :48:40.care, their society's children. They go into care because there is
:48:40. > :48:44.not the stability, the loving caring and nurturing environment
:48:44. > :48:51.that would allow them to prosper and thrive, therefore rethink we
:48:51. > :48:56.can do better. I have a child and from the age of 16 she has a one-
:48:56. > :49:03.in-three chance when -- Sea has a one-in-three chance if she left
:49:03. > :49:08.home to become homeless, would I be happy if she has a one-in- 10
:49:08. > :49:12.chance of having a mental health issue? And if the education system
:49:12. > :49:16.could fill the to such a degree? That is not to say that these young
:49:16. > :49:21.people are so different, they're just as capable as other young
:49:21. > :49:25.people, we have taken them to summer school and Everest base camp.
:49:25. > :49:33.They have been massively discriminated against by the
:49:33. > :49:37.communities. A damning indictment for our society is that these
:49:37. > :49:42.children feel stigmatised because of their life in care. We asked
:49:42. > :49:47.what that was from, and they said that from the age of five they were
:49:47. > :49:51.never invited to another child's birthday party. It is things like
:49:51. > :49:55.that which exacerbates the situation. There are areas, then,
:49:55. > :49:57.when you look at statistics like health and education on the
:49:57. > :50:03.criminal-justice system, children in care are disproportionately
:50:03. > :50:07.represented there, but apart from what he will discuss in more detail,
:50:07. > :50:10.the immorality of not looking after them properly, or we are wasting a
:50:10. > :50:16.lot of potential for society as a whole. They are massively talented
:50:16. > :50:19.people. The resilience it takes to go through the care system is
:50:20. > :50:26.phenomenal, if you go into care, what we require as human beings,
:50:26. > :50:30.and we do not often reflect on this, but it is the relationships that
:50:30. > :50:34.guide us through life. Parents often act as a social and moral
:50:35. > :50:39.rudder to guide us to understand what is going on. How to be present
:50:39. > :50:45.that for children and young people? They can have up numerous numbers
:50:45. > :50:49.of adults or parents are placements that do not give them the stability
:50:49. > :50:53.which they need to thrive. He said that one child had 50 placements
:50:53. > :50:57.before she had turned 18. We should begin this by saying that
:50:57. > :51:01.this is an incredibly difficult area for social workers to work in,
:51:01. > :51:05.and nobody was going to social work in this area for an easy life. But
:51:05. > :51:08.when we look at the structures in place, for example, children who go
:51:08. > :51:11.into care because they have had to be taken from their homes because
:51:11. > :51:16.they are being abused or neglected, these are little ones to have done
:51:16. > :51:21.nothing wrong, but children who need immediate intervention. In a
:51:21. > :51:25.care home, they can have anything between 16 and 31 carers on one
:51:25. > :51:29.shift. If we look at something very basic, how difficult is it for
:51:29. > :51:34.these children to form the sort of permanent, stable and nurturing
:51:34. > :51:37.relationships that any other child can take for granted? I should
:51:37. > :51:41.start by saying that I wholeheartedly agree with Duncan's
:51:41. > :51:45.sentiments. We must be ambitious with children, particularly those
:51:45. > :51:49.who I believe are discriminated against, we must make sure they are
:51:49. > :51:54.looked after. It is difficult. As Duncan says, the resilience of
:51:54. > :51:59.these young people is something that Dele -- something that
:51:59. > :52:08.surprises me daily. We must just get these young people the tools
:52:08. > :52:11.they need to achieve their goals. I think that we need to look
:52:11. > :52:17.sometimes at how the system does work for some young people,
:52:17. > :52:21.particularly those who give a fair to. They begin in incredibly
:52:21. > :52:23.challenged circumstances and then come into care services and
:52:23. > :52:28.sometimes the care services really do transformed their lives for the
:52:28. > :52:32.better. But we must do better. I think one of the keys to do better
:52:32. > :52:36.is that we work together. Part of it is about ensuring that our
:52:36. > :52:41.society does not discriminate, except positively in favour of
:52:41. > :52:45.these young people. It is about teaching staff, it is about the
:52:45. > :52:51.public, it is also about employers in particular giving opportunities
:52:51. > :52:55.to young people for employment when they leave the care system. That is
:52:55. > :52:59.a huge issue given the recessionary impact on the economy in Scotland.
:52:59. > :53:04.What is wrong with us that this is not just an automatic response to
:53:04. > :53:08.these children? What is wrong with us as a collective? First of all,
:53:08. > :53:12.we must recognise that they are there. The fact is that today beset
:53:12. > :53:19.with the highest number of children looked after in Scotland for 30
:53:19. > :53:23.years. 16,100 young people are cared for in Scotland, with the
:53:23. > :53:27.majority being cared for at home. What we have to do is make sure
:53:27. > :53:31.they are not hidden from sight, secondly be must include them
:53:31. > :53:37.positively in all the opportunities that my children will benefit from
:53:37. > :53:39.in Scotland's society today, and I think that is a bit better
:53:39. > :53:43.healthcare, more factories were saying that is clear and a long-
:53:43. > :53:49.term, not short-term funding. It is about training people in the
:53:49. > :53:53.culture that actually forces them and enables them to recognise that
:53:53. > :53:59.young look after people are ambitious and achieving young
:53:59. > :54:02.people. We know that in Denmark, it comes
:54:02. > :54:05.across education Health, attainment, everything else would children in
:54:05. > :54:11.care, are pretty much the same as for children who grow up with their
:54:11. > :54:14.own parents in their own families to adults it, given what has just
:54:15. > :54:19.been said, hardly at all comfortable with the way that
:54:19. > :54:22.restructure her responses to these children? That I am not in the
:54:22. > :54:26.least that comfortable, I think that one of the things that we want
:54:26. > :54:28.to achieve is to highlight the situation, to give and the
:54:28. > :54:32.publicity to get Scotland thinking about the problems that these young
:54:32. > :54:36.people face, and that is the first thing that we want to achieve.
:54:36. > :54:41.Hopefully through programmes like this and others, we can bring some
:54:42. > :54:45.attention to the details. Clearly, as you said, there is a small
:54:45. > :54:50.Scandinavian country that is do much better than BR. If they can do
:54:50. > :54:56.it, surely we can as well. Although there have been marginal
:54:56. > :54:59.improvement in the past 10 or 15 years, various experts and
:54:59. > :55:04.governments have made a marginal on Britain, that is not good enough.
:55:04. > :55:07.Why is that? Why the think, as you see, it is almost not that people
:55:07. > :55:12.do not want to change, it is not that people are not aware of it,
:55:12. > :55:15.why does nothing changed? Why does it changes so slowly? That is part
:55:15. > :55:19.of the reason we're holding this inquiry, to find it what is
:55:19. > :55:23.happening in the process that is ending up with children failing to
:55:23. > :55:26.achieve not just educational, but also with other things in life.
:55:26. > :55:30.They are a higher proportion of the prison population than average,
:55:31. > :55:34.they hire problem with drugs and alcohol. We must ensure that we get
:55:34. > :55:39.to the bottom of this particular problem. We have known about this
:55:39. > :55:43.for so long, there have been many reports. It is as though people
:55:43. > :55:46.more of the problems but do not want to engage with them. It is a
:55:46. > :55:50.difficult and complex issue, it is so sensitive that people do not
:55:50. > :55:55.want to face up to some of the realities here. We have a decision-
:55:55. > :55:59.making process that we have been told that the first evidence has
:55:59. > :56:03.come and that it is too slow and complex. It takes far too long.
:56:03. > :56:05.Even if they tell was not yet born and we know there is a high risk
:56:05. > :56:10.factor with the family, it is taking too long to achieve
:56:10. > :56:13.permanence in a solution for those child. We know how critical those
:56:13. > :56:17.first two years are for the life chances of that child.
:56:17. > :56:22.We are almost out of 10. The key issue is that I am not sure we have
:56:22. > :56:26.given the right message to society. Society does not know the nature of
:56:26. > :56:30.this problem. They do not understand the roots of the style
:56:30. > :56:34.that where they come from. How many local authorities have consultant
:56:34. > :56:41.as to whether a residential did can be placed in the committee? They do
:56:41. > :56:45.not open their arms, they treat it like nuclear waste. Who are these
:56:45. > :56:49.young people? What has put them in this place? With relatively small
:56:49. > :56:54.investment, they will respond positively. Every match will step
:56:54. > :56:59.we take that they consume in their daily lives, they feel more
:56:59. > :57:03.marginalised. We must accept that citizens of this country need to
:57:03. > :57:06.give a stronger mandate for us to help these children. We're out of
:57:06. > :57:10.time today, but the programme will go back and look at specific areas
:57:10. > :57:14.here, because the evidence that is emerging to the committee is quite
:57:14. > :57:18.shocking. We will look at healthcare as children in the
:57:18. > :57:21.justice system and in care children in the healthcare system. We will
:57:21. > :57:26.have you back very soon to look at these things.
:57:26. > :57:29.Coronary heart disease is the second biggest killer in Scotland
:57:29. > :57:32.after cancer. �150 million a year is spent on tackling cardiac
:57:32. > :57:36.problems yet Scotland still has the highest rates of heart disease in
:57:36. > :57:38.Western Europe. Gilly Mathieson has been to Drumchapel where the
:57:38. > :57:48.Scottish parliament's public audit committee have been engaging with
:57:48. > :57:51.
:57:51. > :57:53.locals asked them what is going Physios from dar Naval Hospital are
:57:53. > :57:58.working with the community to help those suffering from heart disease
:57:58. > :58:02.to remain fit and well. Glasgow is the capital of heart disease in
:58:02. > :58:08.Western Europe. I was out walking the dog one
:58:08. > :58:11.Sunday afternoon and I felt breathless. I phoned NHS 24 and
:58:11. > :58:17.described my symptoms and the next thing they said was that I should
:58:17. > :58:23.sit down and the end of -- and the ambulance is on his way.
:58:23. > :58:27.I did not think it would happen to me. I did the smoke. I attended
:58:27. > :58:32.cardiac classes were over 90 per cent of people who had heart
:58:32. > :58:39.problems smoked. In Scotland, at 8000 people a year
:58:39. > :58:42.die of heart disease and �150 million is spent on hospital
:58:42. > :58:45.treatment. A recent survey highlights the barriers preventing
:58:45. > :58:54.people from more deprived areas from being diagnosed early and
:58:54. > :59:00.treated quickly by the NHS. NHS 10 to -- men tend to turn up in
:59:00. > :59:04.the emergency room. In the more deprived areas particularly, people
:59:04. > :59:09.have less access to health information.
:59:09. > :59:13.Jackie is taking part in the keep well programme which works with
:59:13. > :59:18.locals in Drumchapel to address factors addressing their help. She
:59:18. > :59:21.suffers from heart disease but finds it difficult to make healthy
:59:21. > :59:28.choices. If you buy a wholemeal loaf, it is
:59:28. > :59:35.dearer than a white lie. If healthy food was cheaper, people would levy
:59:35. > :59:40.a lot longer. Today she is telling MSPs about her
:59:40. > :59:43.experience. It is part of the inquiry into the experience of
:59:43. > :59:48.services. We can bang on about things as much
:59:48. > :59:52.as we want but if we do not provide healthy food in local shops and
:59:52. > :59:56.affordable a, will not see that a change.
:59:56. > :00:00.How to encourage people to buy health defeat when fast food is
:00:00. > :00:04.seen as the cheaper option is challenging officials here.
:00:04. > :00:10.We need to build on the minimum pricing far alcohol led to station
:00:10. > :00:15.and build on that. For example, at more information about the
:00:15. > :00:21.healthiness of fruit. The emphasis is on getting the
:00:21. > :00:27.message out to have to read -- too hard to reach groups. They will
:00:27. > :00:31.address that in the report they publish after the summer recess.
:00:31. > :00:35.Gilly Mathieson there. Public trust in bankers has taken a battering in
:00:35. > :00:39.the past week and we will have more on that later in the programme but
:00:39. > :00:46.how much stronger is our trust in politicians and the political
:00:46. > :00:53.process? Some say it would be stronger if there was more
:00:53. > :00:57.transparency and scrutiny. I am joined now from our Edinburgh
:00:57. > :01:04.studio. Do we need more lobbyists?
:01:04. > :01:09.Yes, lobbyist do ads to be democratic process and provide
:01:09. > :01:15.briefings for MPs and MSPs and informers on a number of subjects.
:01:15. > :01:19.It is a legitimate part of the democratic process. However, they
:01:19. > :01:27.also work behind the scenes to influence legislation and policy
:01:27. > :01:30.and budget decisions. I think we should be shining a light on that
:01:30. > :01:35.process. So what are you suggesting
:01:35. > :01:38.specifically? You have mentioned a transparency register. What would
:01:38. > :01:44.have to be detail that the public consumption?
:01:44. > :01:49.It is a very simple process. We want an open register for people
:01:49. > :01:59.who fulfil certain criteria. We do not want to have the local Scout
:01:59. > :02:03.group of the Girl Guides having to fill in their in a form and
:02:03. > :02:10.register. That is fairly insignificant if they are talking
:02:10. > :02:14.to Parliament or their local representatives about something.
:02:14. > :02:20.Companies that are lobbying in a significant farm, they will fill in
:02:20. > :02:24.a form and say who they meet and what they met about ants provide
:02:24. > :02:28.some financial information. You have also said there must be
:02:28. > :02:33.independent oversight of this and credible sanctions. What you mean
:02:33. > :02:38.by that? The credible sanctions I think I
:02:38. > :02:44.need people to comment on. I do not want to create an expensive layer
:02:44. > :02:48.of bureaucracy to oversee this. The possibility is that and a existing
:02:48. > :02:52.organisation, for example the Information Commissioner as they're
:02:52. > :03:00.suggesting in England, could oversee this so we do not at an
:03:00. > :03:04.expensive bureaucracy. What was other points?
:03:04. > :03:10.There should be a degree of sanctions. If there are major
:03:10. > :03:14.breaches of what was proposed, in theory, a lobbyist could be struck
:03:14. > :03:19.off at the extreme end. If there were minor breaches it could be a
:03:19. > :03:26.warning letter. Though sanctions would be able to be seen. They
:03:26. > :03:30.would be publicly available. You feel that these levels of
:03:30. > :03:34.transparency are necessary to restore faith in the political
:03:34. > :03:38.process. You feel that strongly about it?
:03:38. > :03:43.I think politicians are perhaps not the lowest form of life in public
:03:43. > :03:46.opinion at the moment. I think you will find that his
:03:46. > :03:52.journalists. Not even journalists. It is bankers
:03:52. > :03:56.at the moment. Are standing is not at the lowest at the moment but my
:03:56. > :03:59.view is that because there has not been any lobbying scandals in
:03:59. > :04:04.Scotland like there have been in England, we should not be
:04:04. > :04:08.complacent and think there may not be problems here. I think it is
:04:08. > :04:11.better that we take proactive steps to put in place systems that would
:04:11. > :04:17.prevent the reputation of Parliament being damaged, rather
:04:17. > :04:22.than trying to recover a reputation will damage once it occurs.
:04:22. > :04:26.Thank you very much indeed for that. Now the lunchtime news with Andrew.
:04:27. > :04:30.Proposals to change the drink-drive limits will be open for
:04:31. > :04:36.consultation in the coming weeks by the Scottish government. Ministers
:04:36. > :04:40.have bowed to lower the limits as a priority. The new responsibilities
:04:40. > :04:44.are among powers being transferred from Westminster as a Holyrood
:04:44. > :04:50.under the recently passed 2012 Scotland Act.
:04:50. > :04:56.A 20 minute ultrasound scan which could detect those at an rest of
:04:56. > :05:01.abdominal aortic aneurysms have been rolled out across Scotland.
:05:01. > :05:05.Men over 65 are believed to be most at risk. It is thought the
:05:05. > :05:07.screening programme -- screening programme could save many lives a
:05:07. > :05:12.year. Andy Murray made history at
:05:12. > :05:16.Wimbledon last night as he made it 3-the 4th round at the men's
:05:16. > :05:23.singles. He raced against the clock to beat Marcos Baghdatis, finishing
:05:23. > :05:28.at the latest ever time of 11:02pm. This June has been one of the
:05:28. > :05:38.dullest, wettest and coldest on record. Let us see of the first day
:05:38. > :05:39.
:05:39. > :05:45.of July brings us better news. Here Sunshine and showers is the picture
:05:45. > :05:48.today. The sunshine part is pretty hard to come by first then this
:05:48. > :05:52.afternoon. There are showers particularly an East but through
:05:52. > :05:56.the day we will see dry and brighter conditions feeding in from
:05:56. > :06:02.the West as by the ends of the afternoon most places will be dry
:06:02. > :06:06.with late brain has to end the day. Temperatures 13 to 17 Celsius. That
:06:06. > :06:16.is the forecast. That is all for now. Our next
:06:16. > :06:20.
:06:20. > :06:23.bulletin is at 5:45pm. Back to is It has been a turbulent week in the
:06:23. > :06:28.banking world. This week the Prime Minister is expected to announce an
:06:28. > :06:38.independent review of regulations. Let us look at the potential fall-
:06:38. > :06:42.
:06:42. > :06:48.I am joined by a financial journalist.
:06:48. > :06:53.Ian, let us look at the Miss selling scam. What do you think all
:06:53. > :06:57.this means about the average bank customer?
:06:57. > :07:03.I would imagine most bank customers are shocked and disgusted to
:07:03. > :07:07.discover that the leading banks, including Barclays and RBS and
:07:07. > :07:13.Lloyd's and other banks, have been engaging in systematically
:07:13. > :07:17.manipulating interest rates to benefit their own bottom lines. I
:07:17. > :07:25.think most customers will be really appalled but this has been going on.
:07:25. > :07:30.It has been going on for about five years, since 2005. The regulators
:07:30. > :07:34.did nothing to stop it. And in terms of what people might
:07:34. > :07:40.have lost financially, particularly in the insurance mists selling scam,
:07:40. > :07:43.do you think people will be looking for compensation?
:07:43. > :07:50.Berry definitely. The compensation claims could be so great it could
:07:50. > :07:55.bring down some of the banks. In the USA there are huge glass action
:07:55. > :07:59.lawsuits against banks that combines to try and rape of the
:07:59. > :08:02.global rates. I have spoken to two or three lawyers to represent small
:08:02. > :08:08.businesses who had been cheated by their banks and they are
:08:08. > :08:12.considering their positions. George, how do you think this could
:08:12. > :08:15.develop? Could there be expensive court cases and what effect could
:08:15. > :08:20.that have? The we have really not seen the
:08:20. > :08:25.worst of it yet. There were two glass actions launched in the
:08:25. > :08:31.United States and those damages could run into billions. It is very
:08:31. > :08:39.serious problems ahead. Although there is legislation in the words
:08:39. > :08:44.at Westminster to improve the strength of banks and safeguard
:08:44. > :08:50.depositors. That legislation is not likely to be on the books since --
:08:50. > :08:56.until at least 2019. You could fight a World War in that time. The
:08:56. > :08:58.politicians are talking a lot but they are not doing anything very
:08:58. > :09:02.quickly. Do you think there should be an
:09:02. > :09:07.inquiry? That would again postpone what should be done. Do we not know
:09:07. > :09:11.what the problem was here? It was an over-complex system,
:09:11. > :09:18.deliberately manipulating its, with derivatives traders running a
:09:18. > :09:27.marked? We are suffering from a disease our
:09:27. > :09:33.inquiries in this country. We are looking at more navel-gazing.
:09:33. > :09:38.Do we need criminal sanctions in this country?
:09:38. > :09:43.In America, if you fix prices you go to jail. In this country we just
:09:43. > :09:48.find the banks. At some point in the future the banks to recoup the
:09:48. > :09:52.money by putting the prices up. There is a moot point about whether
:09:52. > :09:57.or not he could take sanctions against those involved in this
:09:58. > :10:02.rigging? The first thing I would soon before thinking about an
:10:02. > :10:05.inquiry would be to phone of the Fraud Squad and get the people
:10:05. > :10:09.investigated to engaged in this activity.
:10:09. > :10:13.I know you have an opinion that there could be legal proceedings
:10:13. > :10:18.against people in this country but what is the role of the
:10:18. > :10:24.shareholders in all of this? Shareholders have failed abysmally.
:10:24. > :10:28.They sat quietly whilst banks were engaging in these activities. It
:10:28. > :10:33.was widely known in the markets that this was being manipulated.
:10:33. > :10:37.They could have tapped Bob Diamond on the shoulder and suggested he
:10:37. > :10:43.look at it. Overall, the shareholders do not come out of
:10:43. > :10:47.this selling -- smelling of roses. They have been pretty complacent
:10:47. > :10:50.and unaware of things that they ought to have been aware of. There
:10:50. > :10:54.is now this thing called a shareholders' spring where
:10:54. > :10:58.shareholders have been voting down excessive pay packages in a number
:10:58. > :11:04.of UK plc is and that is encouraging. There are signs
:11:04. > :11:08.shareholders are waking up from 20 years of sleepwalking. Both are
:11:08. > :11:13.what more is to come here? If I was Fred Goodwin of Bob
:11:13. > :11:17.Diamond, I would be pleading with the Crown Prosecution Service to
:11:17. > :11:23.prosecutes me because there is a high chance there will be
:11:23. > :11:27.prosecuted by the US authorities. The US authorities will seek their
:11:27. > :11:34.extradition. Not necessarily those to put it could be them of the
:11:34. > :11:38.bankers who are Bayern's to have a active role in manipulating global
:11:38. > :11:44.rates. I imagine that is one that outcome as I wrote in today's
:11:44. > :11:47.Sunday Herald. There are lots of different outcomes. I sincerely
:11:47. > :11:52.hope one outcome is that the Government wakes up to the fat are
:11:52. > :11:57.banking sector has been wholly as a control, corrupt, dishonest,
:11:57. > :12:03.deceitful and so on for far too long. What they have done to date
:12:03. > :12:07.has been utterly, utterly unlikely to change anything. The most recent
:12:07. > :12:13.report is like a sticking plaster on a gaping wound. It will not
:12:13. > :12:20.resolve the matter. We need a fundamental change of culture, as
:12:20. > :12:23.Vince Cable has been discussing. How you achieve that, I do not know.
:12:23. > :12:29.It would almost be better if the existing banks were allowed to fail
:12:29. > :12:34.and then we could start again from a clean sheet of paper and rebuild
:12:34. > :12:37.a some banks which were decent and which saw their purpose as been
:12:37. > :12:42.looking after the interests of their customers and of society,
:12:42. > :12:47.rather than the other way around. Vince Cable, the business secretary,
:12:47. > :12:51.has said this was a cesspit essentially. Is this the last
:12:51. > :12:56.banking scandal we will hear? Could there be more waiting?
:12:56. > :13:02.I would not be surprised if there was more. It just gets worse and
:13:02. > :13:10.worse. It is because of the culture. Rigging prices, conning the
:13:10. > :13:13.consumer and screen out of much does the system as you can, that
:13:13. > :13:19.was the atmosphere. People have to go to jail.
:13:19. > :13:22.The is that likely to happen? the public mood does seem to be
:13:22. > :13:26.changing. My worry is that because banking is
:13:26. > :13:31.the largest industry we have in this country, the politicians will
:13:31. > :13:37.always came into them. Part of the problem lies with the politicians.