:00:39. > :00:43.Good morning and welcome to Sunday Politics. After another shambolic
:00:43. > :00:49.week for the Government, it is fight back time. Their chosen turf
:00:50. > :00:54.- crimes. Ortis surprise! The Prime Minister is about to get tough on
:00:54. > :00:59.criminals and the elections for new police and crime commissioners are
:00:59. > :01:03.just three wicks away. We will talk to Theresa May about all of that.
:01:03. > :01:07.And about her decision not extradite Gary McKinnon to the
:01:07. > :01:11.United States. And with tougher regulation of the
:01:11. > :01:16.press, could that be good news for celebrities who abuse their fame?
:01:16. > :01:24.In light of the Jimmy Savile affair, Rupert Murdoch argues that point.
:01:24. > :01:29.But then he would, wouldn't he? We also talked to Neil Wallis.
:01:29. > :01:33.And another week in the thick of it for the Government. Andrew Mitchell
:01:33. > :01:40.and the energy policy sat -- shambles has put a smile on
:01:40. > :01:43.And on Sunday Politics Scotland: We'll be at the SNP conference
:01:43. > :01:53.asking the First Minister, Alex Salmond, what yes to NATO but no to
:01:53. > :01:53.
:01:53. > :30:14.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1700 seconds
:30:14. > :30:19.We have a first class lead at the moment and he is dealing with the
:30:19. > :30:23.issues very well indeed. A first- class Prime Minister. Home
:30:23. > :30:26.Secretary, thank you for being with us this morning.
:30:26. > :30:33.Now, the Jimmy Savile revelations have reignited the debate about the
:30:34. > :30:36.prospect of stronger price regulation. The question - will
:30:36. > :30:45.celebrities with secrets like Jimmy Savile be able to sleep more
:30:45. > :30:51.soundly if the press is cowled? We will debate the issue more widely
:30:51. > :30:58.but first, this. They are actors but the words are
:30:58. > :31:03.from working journalists. This is a new play about the press by the
:31:03. > :31:09.National Theatre of Scotland and the London Review of Books called
:31:09. > :31:14.Inquirer, and, yes, there is a real-life scene -- a scene about
:31:14. > :31:22.that real life Enquirer... Levison, what do we think will
:31:22. > :31:27.happen? Look at Hillsborough! always said from the beginning I do
:31:27. > :31:30.not want my report to end up on a dusty shelf! Earlier this year,
:31:30. > :31:34.Lord Justice Leveson heard from a host of witnesses who said their
:31:34. > :31:43.lives had been blighted by the media. He it just felt like such an
:31:43. > :31:47.intrusion... To such a sense of invasion, and my husband said, no,
:31:47. > :31:52.we have asked all of you to stay away. The editor said, we're going
:31:52. > :31:56.to use it anyway. Lord Justice Leveson is de polishing his script
:31:56. > :32:00.which will be published later in the year. One theory is he will
:32:00. > :32:04.recommend a new press regulator with the force of the law behind it.
:32:04. > :32:10.There is also a sense that the inquiry is already having an effect
:32:10. > :32:13.on real Life newspaper offices. think you can see examples way you
:32:13. > :32:20.might have expected there to have been more press coverage than there
:32:20. > :32:24.was. I take the example of Gary Speed, the Welsh soccer captain.
:32:24. > :32:29.You can have all kinds of speculation as to why he killed
:32:29. > :32:36.himself so that may be an example. What about speculation on the front
:32:36. > :32:42.pages now? For some, the story on Jimmy Savile is a warning of the
:32:42. > :32:48.Government being too tough on the price. It has been said the likes
:32:48. > :32:54.of Jimmy Savile will be further protected if we don't fight Cameron.
:32:54. > :32:59.So the fear is the press will be too scared to probe celebrities
:32:59. > :33:04.suspected of wrongdoing. The press is looking for any occasion where
:33:04. > :33:08.it can put forward reasonably tighter examples in the public
:33:08. > :33:14.interest. The cast and crew are going on tour to Belfast, but the
:33:14. > :33:18.big question is, where is the media heading after all of this?
:33:19. > :33:27.And Anne Diamond and former News of the World executive editor, Neil
:33:27. > :33:33.Wallis, joined me to go head to Before we begin, I should point out
:33:33. > :33:37.Neil Wallis is currently on police bail as part of the phone-hacking
:33:37. > :33:42.investigation so we cannot pose any questions related to that
:33:42. > :33:46.investigation. You can answer this, though. Why do you say regulation
:33:46. > :33:52.of the press would be good news for the Jimmy Saviles of this world but
:33:52. > :33:57.you never exposed this? I find that rather a fascinating question
:33:57. > :34:01.because what you're saying is, it will be easier if we put more
:34:01. > :34:06.restrictions on you. There are plenty of restrictions already in
:34:06. > :34:13.this country and frankly, libel and privacy is a huge stick with which
:34:13. > :34:18.the press can be beaten. The truth of the matter is, you take on
:34:18. > :34:23.somebody like Jimmy Savile and you try to expose him, that is a big,
:34:23. > :34:30.big calculation. So there is enough regulation already to inhibit
:34:30. > :34:39.investigative journalism? I think bringing to be -- grinning Jimmy
:34:39. > :34:42.Savile again after the Leveson Inquiry is a red herring. I do not
:34:42. > :34:47.see anything wrong at all with the price being asked, now that they
:34:47. > :34:53.have proved themselves of 25, 30, even more years of the inability to
:34:53. > :35:02.suffer Gillett, the argument now is of some sort of statutory
:35:02. > :35:05.regulation. -- inability to self regulate. Let's give it a go.
:35:05. > :35:10.problem with bringing statute in, it is a bit like losing your
:35:10. > :35:20.virginity. You know... You can only lose it wants. Once you let the
:35:20. > :35:23.politicians get their hands on the Leeds of authority whose job it is
:35:23. > :35:28.to hold legislative into account, they will get the press that they
:35:28. > :35:35.want rather than the press they deserve. I find it interesting use
:35:35. > :35:38.the word authority because that is what we have not had. If you are an
:35:39. > :35:42.owner like Rupert Murdoch it has been about money and about the
:35:42. > :35:46.desire to sell stories that sell newspapers. It has been about
:35:46. > :35:51.profit. If you have been in your position where you have been quite
:35:51. > :36:01.high up editorially, it is about power. Not about authority. What we
:36:01. > :36:07.do need now is some sort of press which actually does have integrity.
:36:07. > :36:11.You have had huge power, as Anne Diamond says, but you have been
:36:11. > :36:15.interested in titillating gossip about celebrities rather than
:36:15. > :36:21.uncovering real role going like Jimmy Savile. Sometimes. Lots of
:36:21. > :36:26.times. No. Lots of times we have exposed a whole variety of very
:36:26. > :36:30.unsavoury activities amongst politicians. Now, do you believe we
:36:30. > :36:36.should about those sorts of politicians to decide the sort of
:36:36. > :36:43.press we have? Just this week we have the Telegraph story about how
:36:43. > :36:48.MPs of renting out their own flats to each other, then hiring flats at
:36:48. > :36:55.the tax payer's expense. And who revealed that? The press revealed
:36:55. > :36:59.that. Yes, and if you believe we have too much regulation, those
:36:59. > :37:04.other kind of stories they will put in. They will put rules in place to
:37:04. > :37:12.stop that coming out. I have worked in journalism and media all my
:37:12. > :37:16.life... It hasn't stopped. It does a lot of investigative work.
:37:16. > :37:21.didn't do the expenses scandal. They have done plenty of other very
:37:21. > :37:24.good journalism. Yes, they have. The fundamental weakness of your
:37:24. > :37:29.argument is you keep saying any sort of regulation that is not self
:37:29. > :37:34.regulation, which, by the way, has not worked, is a form of gagging
:37:34. > :37:43.the press. It doesn't have to mean that. If but the broadcasters did
:37:43. > :37:48.hacking. The breasted hacking as well. But the point is, and you
:37:48. > :37:56.know this well -- the press did hacking. It is still within the
:37:56. > :38:02.bounds of statutory regulation. Has it worked? No, it has not. You were
:38:02. > :38:11.angry at Sun when you published a photograph of Anne Diamond's son's
:38:11. > :38:15.funeral for which you did not have permission. And then you argued it
:38:15. > :38:25.was part of a cot death campaign. I think most people would argue it is
:38:25. > :38:25.
:38:25. > :38:30.good you should not do that. This is an unfortunate example because
:38:30. > :38:34.her memory of this and my memory, and I was involved in this heavily,
:38:34. > :38:38.are simply different. It might be because of time but how she has
:38:38. > :38:43.recalled what happened is very different from how I recalled it
:38:43. > :38:50.but I do remember that the campaign we did together that she did with
:38:50. > :38:56.Sun and talked about just a year ago as one of the highlights of her
:38:56. > :38:58.career was that it was enormously effective. It was an example of
:38:59. > :39:04.where the press can do real good but regulation would not have
:39:04. > :39:09.stopped that either. I think we need tighter regulation. I think 20
:39:09. > :39:13.years ago I would not have argued for statutory regulation but having
:39:13. > :39:17.given experience that I and others have had, I think maybe now has
:39:18. > :39:23.come the time. Let's try it and see. Do you think this is what Lord
:39:23. > :39:28.Leveson will come out with? I have sat with him twice and it is plain
:39:28. > :39:32.to me he had no sympathy whatsoever with the tabloid press. You have to
:39:32. > :39:39.remember you regulate the tabloid, you regulate the entire print media.
:39:39. > :39:49.We have done the argument. Do you think it will happen? Yes, I do.
:39:49. > :39:51.
:39:51. > :39:54.Good morning and welcome to Sunday Politics Scotland. Coming up on the
:39:54. > :39:57.programme: The SNP goes for pragmatism on a
:39:57. > :40:02.key conference vote. What is the wider fall-out from their no-to-
:40:02. > :40:06.nuclear-yes-to-NATO decision? can now be certain the independence
:40:06. > :40:12.referendum will take place in two years' time and the party is
:40:12. > :40:14.desperate to win it. How did they get on at Conference? Join me later
:40:14. > :40:18.to find out. We'll be speaking to the First
:40:18. > :40:21.Minister live in Perth. And the Lib Dems come up with a new
:40:21. > :40:24.Home Rule prospectus two days after the Edinburgh Agreement is signed.
:40:24. > :40:27.And we'll be hearing from the DUP and Plaid Cymru on the potential
:40:27. > :40:30.benefits or disadvantages for Stormont and Cardiff from our
:40:30. > :40:33.devolution debate. The Scottish National Party leader,
:40:33. > :40:37.Alex Salmond, has warned a No vote in the independence referendum will
:40:37. > :40:40.secure nothing for Scotland. The First Minister was addressing his
:40:40. > :40:42.Party Conference in Perth just days after signing a deal with the UK
:40:42. > :40:47.Government to guarantee an independence referendum takes place
:40:47. > :40:56.in the Autumn of 2014. Here's our political correspondent, Raymond
:40:56. > :41:00.Buchanan. Time is ticking. There are 24
:41:00. > :41:06.months ago. Scotland's constitutional destiny now has a
:41:06. > :41:12.date. Autumn 2014 will see the independence question asked and
:41:12. > :41:19.answered. And how this party uses that tie will be absolutely crucial.
:41:19. > :41:23.Opinion polls suggest Scotland will go for a name to vote for
:41:23. > :41:28.independence. This Conference has been all about seduction. Winning
:41:28. > :41:33.over more voters. Forwards, perhaps, but first some reassurance and
:41:33. > :41:40.persuasion. It Alex Salmond spent much of his speech appealing to
:41:40. > :41:43.voters to back more powers of Holyrood if not full independence.
:41:43. > :41:48.We know there are many of our fellow-citizens who remain to be
:41:48. > :41:52.convinced about the merits of independence. But we also know
:41:53. > :41:59.there is a majority for change in this country. The choice before us
:41:59. > :42:04.is now clear. Scotland can vote no and secure nothing. Or we can vote
:42:04. > :42:09.yes to get the platform we need. So we speak today to those millions of
:42:09. > :42:14.our fellow citizens who say yes to Scotland before and will say yes to
:42:14. > :42:17.Scotland, yes to progress once again. To help persuade them, he
:42:17. > :42:24.contrasted his government's performance with that of the
:42:24. > :42:32.coalition. Why on earth do we allow this bunch of incompetent and Lords
:42:32. > :42:40.Moody's to be in positions of a authority over our country? -- Lord
:42:40. > :42:46.snootys? And that has been one of the central picture. If you can
:42:46. > :42:54.trust the Scottish Government to run health and education, why do
:42:54. > :43:04.not tax and politics as well? contribute 9.6% of taxation but get
:43:04. > :43:09.back 9.3%. More than �1,000 for every household in the country is
:43:09. > :43:14.contributed. With access to our own resources, we can invest more,
:43:15. > :43:19.borrow less to save for the future, protect services or a combination
:43:19. > :43:25.of the three. We know he wants to borrow to spend on capital
:43:25. > :43:29.expenditure product -- projects while protecting public services
:43:29. > :43:36.and businesses. One thing they will not be investing in his atomic
:43:36. > :43:42.weapons. The party restated its belief for a nuclear-3 Scotland.
:43:42. > :43:48.But they backed membership of the NATO nuclear alliance. -- for a
:43:48. > :43:53.nuclear-free Scotland. It is not enough to say you believe in
:43:53. > :43:58.independence and then say you want to belong to NATO. As far as I am
:43:58. > :44:02.concerned, it is hypocritical to say we should not have these
:44:02. > :44:07.weapons but want to belong to NATO. How dare we say that! We are in
:44:07. > :44:11.Scotland, we will be an independent country, we don't want Trident or
:44:11. > :44:21.nuclear weapons, but as I've said before, if you want to go along to
:44:21. > :44:23.
:44:23. > :44:27.we club that supports nuclear weapons. -- we want to go along.
:44:27. > :44:31.The leadership's new NATO policy looked in trouble. The
:44:31. > :44:36.reinforcements were sent in in the shape of Kenny MacAskill, the
:44:36. > :44:46.Justice Secretary who freed the Lockerbie bomber. I am no US poster
:44:46. > :44:54.
:44:54. > :44:58.And I am certainly no US lap dog. There's probably a few senators
:44:58. > :45:04.still hunting me. But we have moved on from being a party of protest to
:45:04. > :45:08.a party of power. I have marched for CND, I have protested against
:45:08. > :45:12.Trident, I have demonstrated against the Iraq war. I am tired
:45:12. > :45:17.margin. I want a seat for our government in the situations of
:45:17. > :45:22.power. They are not there yet, though, but be in no doubt - the
:45:22. > :45:28.hard sell has begun. Will Mr Salmond prove a suitably success
:45:28. > :45:32.will salesman for the Yes campaign? We can cross live now to Perth,
:45:32. > :45:38.where the First Minister joins us from Conference. Thank you for
:45:38. > :45:42.talking to us this morning. Good morning, Isabel. I am speaking from
:45:42. > :45:46.the National Geographic Society in Scotland. It is a fantastic place.
:45:46. > :45:53.I did not know it was here. If you get a chance to visit, do come
:45:53. > :45:57.along! Thank you for that. You know this morning a sizable number of
:45:57. > :46:01.your supporters and ministers think you are a hypocrite and the SNP
:46:02. > :46:08.leadership are hypocrites who sold out a dearly held principle to
:46:08. > :46:15.chase boat. That must be a very uncomfortable place to be? -- to
:46:15. > :46:18.chase votes. Not in the slightest. It was refreshing to see these
:46:18. > :46:22.debates at Conference. The arguments were put and genuinely
:46:22. > :46:28.held and there was a democratic discussion with a democratic result.
:46:28. > :46:32.The result is in and I think the party is very comfortable with that,
:46:32. > :46:35.as witness to the reception given to my speech yesterday when I said
:46:36. > :46:41.exactly then what I have said to you now. But just to clarify the
:46:41. > :46:44.position, you were saying there would be, in an independent
:46:44. > :46:50.Scotland, and explicit ban on nuclear weapons being based on
:46:50. > :46:57.Scottish territory. What does that mean for NATO's subs been allowed
:46:57. > :47:01.access to Scottish territorial waters? Isabel, 25 out of the 28
:47:01. > :47:06.member countries of NATO are non- nuclear members of the North
:47:06. > :47:10.Atlantic treaty Organisation. There is nothing exceptional about the
:47:10. > :47:15.status we want to aspire to for Scotland. We are going to remove
:47:15. > :47:18.the Trident nuclear weapons from Scotland. The issue about the
:47:19. > :47:24.waters, no country ever confirms the existence of nuclear weapons of
:47:24. > :47:34.its warships. That is well known. It is an issue which all non-
:47:34. > :47:43.nuclear countries have to face up to and they do the exactly the same
:47:43. > :47:48.thing. So you will have no policy on nuclear weapons in Scottish
:47:48. > :47:53.waters? No. We bomb-maker to constitutional provision double
:47:53. > :47:59.rent Scotland having possession. -- we will make it a constitutional
:47:59. > :48:04.provision. We will save about �250 million a vital Scottish
:48:04. > :48:08.expenditure. It will be for the rest of the UK to decide whether it
:48:08. > :48:12.wants to station these weapons elsewhere or make a much more
:48:12. > :48:18.sensible decision, which would be to decommission them. And this is
:48:18. > :48:22.the biggest, single biggest, step towards nuclear disarmament.
:48:22. > :48:29.Certainly the people of Scotland can have and a bronze. I cannot
:48:29. > :48:34.wish away US nuclear weapons but I can legislate a way Trident nuclear
:48:34. > :48:38.weapons from Scotland. I am trying to establish how far you would be
:48:38. > :48:42.compromised in this non-nuclear stance. Will you do nothing to
:48:42. > :48:46.satisfy yourself as to whether NATO's sobs coming into Scottish
:48:46. > :48:52.territorial waters have nuclear arms, or are you saying you will
:48:52. > :48:58.allow other countries for reasons of safe haven or exercises or
:48:58. > :49:07.manoeuvres, you will allow them? am saying we will begin the same
:49:07. > :49:12.position as the other non-nuclear members of NATO. We will have the
:49:12. > :49:18.same policy as the other countries because announcement of position is
:49:18. > :49:24.just not done. So you will allow them in on exercises? I was just
:49:24. > :49:28.explain the policy to you, that no country ever confirms or denies the
:49:28. > :49:33.existence of nuclear warships. We will have the same position as
:49:33. > :49:39.other countries in NATO. If this argument has unusual or strange
:49:39. > :49:46.policy, however at -- Hull is it an unusual or strange policy for these
:49:46. > :49:50.other countries? -- how is it? An agreement is that this is a
:49:50. > :49:53.perfectly sensible policy which is practised by other countries. Other
:49:53. > :50:01.countries, incidentally, which will do us Scotland will do have
:50:01. > :50:05.according to the terms of the motion, which is that we have to
:50:05. > :50:08.advocate all countries respect the agreements they have signed and a
:50:08. > :50:12.nuclear Non-Proliferation. That will be Scott and campaigning
:50:12. > :50:22.against nuclear weapons and removing weapons of mass to squat -
:50:22. > :50:24.
:50:24. > :50:30.- must destruction. -- Scotland campaigning. You are unable to say
:50:30. > :50:36.whether Scotland will do this or not and you say they will go along
:50:36. > :50:40.with what other NATO countries have? Yes, in the same way as
:50:40. > :50:44.Canada and Norway, and as you probably know, both these countries
:50:44. > :50:48.have communicated very recently their strong opposition to nuclear
:50:48. > :50:55.weapons in a very principled way, and that will be the exactly the
:50:55. > :51:00.same position Scott and aspires to. We will get rid of Trident, weapons
:51:00. > :51:05.of mass destruction, and we will do it for the economic and social
:51:05. > :51:09.benefit for the Scottish people. That seems to be a very wise policy.
:51:09. > :51:14.If we look at the relative fiscal balance between Scotland and the
:51:14. > :51:18.rest of the UK, you said every Scot would be �500 better off after
:51:18. > :51:23.independence. The fact of the matter is, we have this massive
:51:23. > :51:33.fiscal deficit and we upped our eyes in debt. This is and �500 cash
:51:33. > :51:43.
:51:43. > :51:51.I have set with the fiscally it stronger position you could invest
:51:51. > :51:58.more, Baroness and say for the future and protect vital services.
:51:58. > :52:03.It is a fact that Scotland's fiscal position in the last estimation in
:52:03. > :52:09.2010 was 2.7 billion stronger than that of the UK. As First Minister
:52:09. > :52:14.now I could do with �2.7 billion by the to borrow less or invest more
:52:14. > :52:21.in the Scottish economy. You do not think this money has to go into
:52:21. > :52:26.paying down the deficit? Well, I have explained we have to 0.7
:52:26. > :52:31.billion with a range of choices, you could invest more, borrowed
:52:31. > :52:37.less and save or you could protect vital Scottish public services or a
:52:37. > :52:43.combination. What about the deficit? That would be in the
:52:43. > :52:48.borrowing less aspects of that. We pay for the deficit in the fiscal
:52:48. > :52:53.calculation. That is within the figures. This is statement of fact.
:52:53. > :52:58.On the last estimation a Scotland was in a relatively stronger
:52:58. > :53:06.position to the rest of the UK to the tune of 2.7 billion because we
:53:06. > :53:12.paid 9.6% of the UK revenue and only receive 9.3% expenditure. That
:53:12. > :53:17.is the equivalent of �500 for every man, woman and child in Scotland or
:53:17. > :53:21.a �1,000 for every family. That would be deployed by investing more,
:53:21. > :53:25.protecting public services or a combination of all of them. That
:53:25. > :53:30.would give a Scottish government more fiscal flexibility than the UK
:53:30. > :53:35.government says it possesses a prison moment. In terms of getting
:53:35. > :53:39.the borrowing rates, getting the fiscal deficit down and securing a
:53:39. > :53:46.good borrowing rate, if you're not paint and a deficit quickly the
:53:46. > :53:52.argument is the market's thump you and you get a bad credit rating. In
:53:52. > :53:57.Scotland on Sunday the Treasury's senior civil servant says an
:53:57. > :54:01.independent Scotland would pay high interest rates than the UK as it
:54:01. > :54:06.seeks to convince the world's investors it is a safe bet. Unless
:54:06. > :54:13.you pay down the deficit quickly, you feed into this idea that you're
:54:13. > :54:22.not a safe bet. No, I prefer the world where senior civil servants
:54:22. > :54:28.did not act is mouthpieces for ministers. Scotland is in a
:54:28. > :54:33.stronger fiscal position and the rest of the UK. People look at a
:54:33. > :54:40.fiscal position and a look at the prospects for the future. A major
:54:40. > :54:43.thing Scotland has relative to its size is a huge collateral of almost
:54:43. > :54:48.$2 billion of the future estimations of the wealth of North
:54:48. > :54:53.Sea oil and gas. Two trillion dollars, that's two trillion
:54:53. > :54:57.dollars. It's a huge amount of collateral so the current stronger
:54:57. > :55:02.fiscal balance and the collateral for the future we have secured
:55:02. > :55:07.Scotland and effective credit rating. One of the agencies made a
:55:07. > :55:13.point earlier that because the price of gas and oil is high, there
:55:13. > :55:23.are uncertainties about fixing what would be a borrowing rate. Well,
:55:23. > :55:27.the point is that the estimation, $100 real oil prices, lower than at
:55:27. > :55:30.the prison moment going forward, two trillion dollars is a
:55:30. > :55:38.reasonable estimate but if people look at collateral for the future,
:55:38. > :55:44.why is that more important? Two trillion Clare Short for Scotland
:55:44. > :55:49.is roughly 10 times the collateral the UK has a prison moment. If you
:55:49. > :55:54.are talking about a stronger fiscal position and the collateral for the
:55:54. > :55:59.future you're talking about an effective and promising position
:55:59. > :56:03.for Scotland. Where Scotland ends up depends on the wisdom of the
:56:03. > :56:07.policies were pursue and our case is the austerity policies of the UK
:56:07. > :56:13.Government are not working, we eat capital investments in the economy
:56:13. > :56:18.to push growth forward, economic growth will reinforce the fiscal
:56:18. > :56:25.balance and reinforce the strength of the Scottish economy as well as
:56:25. > :56:29.benefiting every family in Scotland. But another point is if you have a
:56:29. > :56:38.currency union you cannot have too much divergence because the markets
:56:38. > :56:44.will punish up. Well, we refer to the same point, I am yet to hear a
:56:44. > :56:50.refutation of it, if you borrow the same, and reality 0.7 billion
:56:50. > :56:54.better balance, you have flexibility of �2.7 billion. It
:56:54. > :57:00.will be interesting to see what 2011 and 12 will be. It might be
:57:00. > :57:05.greater. Let's see when the figures come out. Scotland will have a
:57:05. > :57:09.range of flexibility that the UK Chancellor says he doesn't have
:57:09. > :57:13.although my argument would be he should emphasise a per capita
:57:13. > :57:18.investment into the economy to generate growth and future growth.
:57:18. > :57:23.In terms of the fiscal pact, we see it as a one-way street but it would
:57:23. > :57:29.be in Scotland's interests to have limits on borrowing and liability
:57:29. > :57:37.in case a defaults in London. If a London bank fails we want
:57:37. > :57:42.reassurances. We propose that having the sterling zone is
:57:42. > :57:48.convenient and the right policy for Scotland and the productivity rates
:57:48. > :57:52.and the things that matter about a currency zone, the productivity
:57:52. > :57:59.position between the two countries, they are roughly aligned between
:57:59. > :58:04.Scotland and England. They are basically the same. There is no
:58:04. > :58:11.doubt there are advantages for both sides. The advantage for Scotland
:58:11. > :58:15.is continuity and independence, the advantage for the rest of the UK is
:58:15. > :58:19.while the revenues from Scottish oil and gas accrue to the Scottish
:58:19. > :58:24.Exchequer, if Scotland is in a currency union the protection or
:58:24. > :58:30.oil offers to the balance of payments, �30 billion, or would
:58:30. > :58:34.accrue to the whole sterling area. Any event and government will bite
:58:34. > :58:39.our hands off to have a sterling zone given that protection. It is
:58:39. > :58:48.vital for the rest of the UK as well as being a matter of
:58:48. > :58:54.convenience. It is the case that the levels are similar but what's
:58:54. > :59:01.interesting is that not what's been punished in Europe. In Europe,
:59:01. > :59:08.Major in discipline in spending patterns. But a fair point. The
:59:09. > :59:15.underlying tension in the euro is the differences in divergence, 40%
:59:15. > :59:25.between the heart of Germany and Greece. But what makes the euro
:59:25. > :59:33.
:59:33. > :59:40.Up what's important is the Fiscal Commission the SNP have
:59:40. > :59:48.commissioned which puts us to noble Moritz. Will operate in the best
:59:48. > :59:53.interests of Scotland. It is going on for the referendum as the Yes
:59:53. > :00:03.side is closing the gap. Alex Salmond, thank you for joining us
:00:03. > :00:08.
:00:08. > :00:12.this morning. Now, over to London David Cameron it is to set out a
:00:12. > :00:17.new approach to law and order promising the government will be
:00:17. > :00:20.tough but intelligent the stock in a speech tomorrow he will reveal
:00:20. > :00:28.plans to increase the use of payment by results for groups
:00:28. > :00:33.hoping to rehabilitate offenders. Earlier, the Home Secretary said
:00:33. > :00:37.another airier would-be gun crime. If you look at organised crime
:00:37. > :00:43.gangs, one of the issues is there are middlemen who take firearms and
:00:43. > :00:47.rent them out to criminals who use them. There isn't an offence for
:00:47. > :00:51.somebody to possess a firearm with intent to supply it someone else.
:00:51. > :00:55.It is right we introduced the offence because does supply and the
:00:55. > :01:02.firearms are as guilty as the ones using it. Funerals are taking place
:01:02. > :01:06.of those killed in Friday's car bombing in Lebanon. The attacking a
:01:06. > :01:13.route is being blamed on Syria and there are calls for mass protests
:01:13. > :01:18.today. Live to our correspondent in Beirut.
:01:18. > :01:22.There are thousands of protesters and mourners in the heart of a
:01:22. > :01:26.routes Square. Not just to mark the passing of the country's
:01:26. > :01:29.intelligence chief who was killed in a car bomb but to protest
:01:29. > :01:34.against the excesses of what they see as the Syrian regime in
:01:34. > :01:37.Lebanese politics. Such a car bomb had not been seen here for four
:01:37. > :01:43.years and many fear what is happening in Syria is being
:01:43. > :01:47.replicated in Lebanon. There have been clashes on the streets between
:01:47. > :01:53.pro and anti- Syrian factions and fear for many is the clashes will
:01:53. > :01:57.return and Lebanon will get drawn into the politics of neigh being --
:01:57. > :02:04.neighbouring Syria. A call for serious to get out of Lebanese
:02:04. > :02:08.politics and to mourn the passing of a man he was anti- Syrian.
:02:08. > :02:12.At least 10 people are reported to have been killed when a car bomb
:02:12. > :02:16.exploded in at the Syrian capital Damascus. Syrian state media said
:02:16. > :02:20.it happened outside a police station. It came as the President
:02:21. > :02:29.was meeting the UN and Arab League envoy who has attempted to
:02:29. > :02:32.negotiate a ceasefire. The former BBC director-general Greg Dyke has
:02:32. > :02:36.criticised the corporation's handling of the allegations that
:02:36. > :02:43.Sir Jimmy Savile abused children. He said the BBC was slow to realise
:02:43. > :02:47.the seriousness of the standard. The BBC made too early mistakes,
:02:47. > :02:52.the first statements about this were not strong enough and were not
:02:52. > :02:58.saying this is a serious issue and needs to be examined. That was a
:02:58. > :03:04.mistake. The second one was when they started saying the Newsnight
:03:04. > :03:09.programme was not shown for editorial reasons, you needed to
:03:09. > :03:15.explain what they were. Why to the editor of Newsnight decided this
:03:15. > :03:18.was not a strong enough programme to be broadcast? I suspect he did
:03:18. > :03:23.not think the evidence was strong enough but someone needs to say
:03:23. > :03:33.that. Nobody did. That's all the news for now. More
:03:33. > :03:37.
:03:37. > :03:39.news on BBC One at 6pm. Good afternoon. The deputy First
:03:39. > :03:41.Minister Nicola Sturgeon will challenge the Chancellor this
:03:41. > :03:45.afternoon to change tack on economic policy in an effort to
:03:45. > :03:47.stimulate growth. Ms Sturgeon will make the call on the final day of
:03:47. > :03:51.the SNP conference in Perth. Here's Laura Maxwell.
:03:51. > :03:54.The Commonwealth Games village under construction in Glasgow.
:03:54. > :03:57.Nicola Sturgeon will tell conference only more big projects
:03:57. > :04:02.at this can put a halt to Scotland's rising unemployment
:04:02. > :04:07.figures. She was a George Osborne must use his Autumn Statement to
:04:07. > :04:12.pump money into capital projects like roads, and hospitals up to
:04:12. > :04:14.offer the unemployed lights at the end of the tunnel. Critics claim
:04:14. > :04:19.the government must claimed responsibility for the latest
:04:19. > :04:22.jobless figures. Nicola Sturgeon will tell delegates ministers here
:04:22. > :04:26.are doing everything possible within the constraints of
:04:26. > :04:30.devolution. Scottish businesses are less likely to enter insolvency
:04:30. > :04:33.than those in the rest of Britain - - according to new research. Data
:04:33. > :04:38.released by Creditsafe said firms in Scotland have a 7 per cent
:04:38. > :04:41.higher average credit rating than those in England and Wales.
:04:41. > :04:45.The centenary of the death of a Greenock-born Antarctic explorer is
:04:45. > :04:48.being remembered in Inverkip. Henry 'Birdie' Bowers died with Captain
:04:48. > :04:51.Scott on their return from the South Pole in 1912. Sir Ranulph
:04:51. > :04:58.Fiennes and Scott's grandson, Falcon, will meet at Kip Marina
:04:58. > :05:03.this afternoon. Now let's take a look at the
:05:03. > :05:07.weather forecast, here's Judith. weather forecast, here's Judith.
:05:07. > :05:11.Good afternoon. A fine afternoon coming up for most of us, certainly
:05:11. > :05:18.it is dry with lovely spells of sunshine across the country. We
:05:18. > :05:23.still have patches of mist and fog in low-lying areas which may be
:05:23. > :05:30.stubborn to clear. That the cloud across student with up rates of
:05:30. > :05:34.rain later. -- outbreaks of clout across Shetland. Light wind with a
:05:34. > :05:44.fresh southerly feel. That's the forecast. That's it for the moment.
:05:44. > :05:48.
:05:48. > :05:51.No sooner had the Edinburgh Agreement been signed, sealed and
:05:51. > :05:54.delivered, than the Liberal Democrats came out with their
:05:54. > :05:57.blueprint for Scottish Home Rule, or in other words, more powers if
:05:57. > :05:59.you vote No. But wasn't that what the pro-Unionist parties had just
:05:59. > :06:01.agreed not to include in the referendum? Tim Reid reports from
:06:01. > :06:04.Westminster. For the autumn colours have arrived
:06:04. > :06:10.at Westminster and with the changing season, the very real
:06:10. > :06:13.possibility of more constitutional upheaval. If the leaves change
:06:13. > :06:20.colour here in two years' time, the political landscape may look very
:06:20. > :06:29.different. With the referendum signed, we could be looking at the
:06:29. > :06:33.beginning of the end of the United Kingdom. Going there well around
:06:33. > :06:43.the bend... The former Olympic sprinter it so Ming Campbell has
:06:43. > :06:51.
:06:51. > :06:57.raced ahead delivering an updated The federal UK Parliament would
:06:58. > :07:01.retain control of the defence, foreign affairs and pensions. And
:07:01. > :07:06.they say the West Lothian question is only answered by giving England
:07:06. > :07:12.similar powers over their own affairs. They are proposing a
:07:12. > :07:19.fairly modest and rather fiscally unstable package of tax devolution
:07:19. > :07:22.and they are proposing to join up the dogs by a reinvigorated
:07:22. > :07:27.emphasis on inter-governmental relations and co-ordination. This
:07:27. > :07:29.would help but does not deal with the fact that you have not decided
:07:29. > :07:35.to reopen the question of the division of powers, which is
:07:35. > :07:39.clearly what the people of Scotland want. And how will voters react
:07:39. > :07:47.given Lib Dem leadership argued against a second devo max question
:07:47. > :07:51.on the ballot paper? Opponents say the argument is flawed. Westminster
:07:51. > :07:56.would continue to pay the social security bills, which are twice the
:07:56. > :08:02.revenues. Scotland and the Scottish Parliament would decide inheritance
:08:02. > :08:08.tax, it at -- capital gains tax and that would leave Scotland has the
:08:08. > :08:12.highest taxed part of the United Kingdom. When you look at all of
:08:12. > :08:15.the powers, devo max, whatever, and realise that is contained within
:08:15. > :08:21.independence but the things they want moved from Westminster to
:08:21. > :08:31.Holyrood are not contained I think the 30% to have yet to make their
:08:31. > :08:35.
:08:35. > :08:40.Welfare and defence would remain at Westminster and a written UK. --
:08:41. > :08:48.constitution has been proposed. But since William Gladstone came up
:08:48. > :08:51.with home rule there is still little backing for a federal system.
:08:51. > :08:55.It makes me feel trying to impose regional assemblies on England is
:08:55. > :09:00.not going to work. While Scottish Tories are not considering further
:09:00. > :09:05.powers yet, Labour is aware of Scotland's apparent desire for
:09:05. > :09:10.further devolution but it also opposed another devo max question
:09:10. > :09:20.on the paper. They needed clear answer. That principle decides
:09:20. > :09:28.everything else. Otherwise it will be confusing. Sir Ming Campbell's
:09:28. > :09:32.proposals would alter her radically the proposal for the United Kingdom.
:09:32. > :09:40.Of course, there are only worth the paper they're written on. With
:09:40. > :09:44.Scotland votes no to independence, they will be the central plank of
:09:44. > :09:46.the Lib Dem manifesto. Well, in our Edinburgh studio is
:09:46. > :09:50.Sir Ming Campbell, the former leader of the Liberal Democrats and
:09:50. > :09:55.member of the Foreign Affairs Select Committee. Thank you for
:09:55. > :09:58.talking to us today. How do you respond to the comments that what
:09:58. > :10:03.your commission is proposing is roaring back on where the Lib Dems
:10:03. > :10:09.have got to with the steel Commission, particularly in terms
:10:09. > :10:13.of devolving and oil and gas revenues to Scotland? We made it
:10:13. > :10:17.clear we wanted to put flesh on the bones of the traditional liberal
:10:17. > :10:23.and Lib Dem policies of home rule all round. That is what we have
:10:23. > :10:27.done. We have taken account of the changing circumstances since the
:10:27. > :10:33.still Commission reported and we have produced what he described as
:10:34. > :10:43.a blueprint. It is a rude towards federalism for the whole of the
:10:44. > :10:44.
:10:44. > :10:46.United Kingdom recognising -- it is a route, recognising this is
:10:46. > :10:49.sustainable and for Northern Ireland of Wales there is a similar
:10:49. > :10:57.desire for the kind of control federalism would give over their
:10:57. > :11:02.domestic arrangements. But England seems particularly resistant to any
:11:02. > :11:07.sort of federal witch? You say that but you don't have to go very far
:11:07. > :11:11.to meet Conservative backbenchers to say that if Scotland, Wales and
:11:11. > :11:14.Northern Ireland are having much more domestic responsibility, then
:11:14. > :11:19.why should people from these parts of the United Kingdom have the
:11:19. > :11:25.right to vote on English education? It is not just the West Lothian
:11:25. > :11:30.question, it is the West Belfast question and the West Wales
:11:30. > :11:33.question. I have no doubt whatsoever there is a continuing
:11:33. > :11:36.and increasing view in England but when it comes to domestic English
:11:36. > :11:41.matters, these ought to be dealt with in a way which does not
:11:41. > :11:45.involve those of us who represent constituencies outside of England
:11:45. > :11:49.from determining policy. If we look at the sort of powers which could
:11:49. > :11:53.have come to Scotland and that could come to Scotland and the role
:11:53. > :11:59.and positioning of the Lib Dems in that, the Lib Dems could have given
:11:59. > :12:06.a party political mandate to the second question. They could have
:12:06. > :12:16.defined a proposition between something that attracts a great
:12:16. > :12:18.
:12:18. > :12:22.deal of support. Not at all. The big issue is, are we going to be
:12:22. > :12:26.independent? Are we going to, and I know the nationalists don't like
:12:26. > :12:30.the word, are we going to separate ourselves from the rest of the
:12:30. > :12:34.United Kingdom? That is an issue which lies right at the heart of
:12:34. > :12:38.this debate and an issue which has to be resolved. Resolved it and in
:12:38. > :12:43.a way that I will argue we should remain part of the United Kingdom,
:12:43. > :12:48.and then you can have the kind of discussion which will question
:12:48. > :12:52.implies. Is it devo max? Is it devotes like? Is it federalism?
:12:52. > :12:56.That is the point at which you can have that discussion, and Lord
:12:57. > :13:03.Tommy McAvoy is quite right that if these multiple choices have been
:13:03. > :13:07.put in the referendum debate and in the ballot paper, which we will see
:13:07. > :13:13.in two years' time, then they might well have obscured the central
:13:13. > :13:18.issue, do we want to be separate or United? OK. You are also leader of
:13:18. > :13:24.the UK delegation to NATO's parliamentary assembly. I wanted to
:13:24. > :13:28.ask you about the SNP vote in that regard. What you think NATO's
:13:28. > :13:33.response will be to this idea that an independent Scotland can be in
:13:33. > :13:37.NATO but what have no nuclear weapons on Scottish soil? I have
:13:37. > :13:42.actually brought the piece of paper with me so I could be entirely
:13:42. > :13:46.accurate are more time going to save. Every four, five years NATO
:13:46. > :13:52.creates what it calls a strategic concept, so it sets out its
:13:52. > :14:00.objectives. In 2010, he NATO said it reconfirm satyr as long as there
:14:00. > :14:03.are nuclear weapons in the world, and a -- and NATO will remain a
:14:03. > :14:08.nuclear alliance. I understand people wholly opposed to nuclear
:14:08. > :14:11.weapons. I respect their opinion. Like the Church of Scotland. I
:14:11. > :14:15.respect those who say these weapons are immoral and we should have no
:14:15. > :14:19.part of them. What I don't understand is that those who say
:14:19. > :14:23.that is their position but then want to join an alliance which is a
:14:23. > :14:27.nuclear alliance and will remain so as long as there are nuclear
:14:27. > :14:35.weapons in the world according to its own objectives. What will the
:14:35. > :14:39.NATO response be to this? They might regard this conversion with a
:14:39. > :14:43.certain amount of reserve because I think I am correct in remembering
:14:43. > :14:51.that when Mr Salmond was asked to comment on the steps being taken by
:14:51. > :14:56.NATO to deal with the terrible, barbaric ethnic cleansing in Kosovo,
:14:56. > :15:06.my recollection is that Mr Salmond described that as an act of
:15:06. > :15:07.
:15:07. > :15:11.unparalleled for leave. -- unparalleled folly. Article 5 of
:15:11. > :15:15.the North Atlantic treaty, which is the basis of NATO, says quite
:15:15. > :15:21.expressly that an attack upon one is to be treated as an attack on
:15:21. > :15:25.all members of NATO. Is the Scottish National Party willing to
:15:25. > :15:34.accept that? They only have to accept it if it is UN-sanctioned as
:15:34. > :15:39.well. That is what they say but what the treaty says, it doesn't
:15:39. > :15:43.have any qualification about the UN sanctions and responsibilities or
:15:43. > :15:49.even authority. It certainly says an attack upon one will be treated
:15:49. > :15:58.as an attack upon all. It is something they will accept? If not,
:15:58. > :16:08.you have to ask yourselves whether NATO would be willing to accept
:16:08. > :16:10.
:16:10. > :16:20.their application of? As we have been hearing, there, reform is not
:16:20. > :16:20.
:16:20. > :16:25.just a Scotland-England issue. The referendum is big news in
:16:25. > :16:32.Scotland but it is also hitting the headlines in Wales. What does it
:16:32. > :16:35.mean for us in Wales? Well, it is a big debate... The National
:16:35. > :16:41.Assembly's First Minister says he would regret seeing Scotland leave
:16:41. > :16:44.the union. He is worried Wales would be dominated by English MPs
:16:44. > :16:49.at Westminster. Meanwhile, Plaid Cymru said they could have their
:16:49. > :16:55.own referendum if they win the next two elections. But that might be
:16:55. > :17:05.somewhere off. A reason poll but support for separating Wales at
:17:05. > :17:06.
:17:06. > :17:15.just 7%. It is now up to him and this House to unite in a campaign
:17:15. > :17:20.to maintain sustained and support the Union and keep McNeill and him
:17:20. > :17:24.with us forever! I hope politicians of all parties will agree to share
:17:24. > :17:29.platforms together. I have always wanted to share a platform with Ian
:17:29. > :17:35.Paisley. Maybe I'll get my chance! Stormont appear to be staying out
:17:35. > :17:37.of the debate at the moment. Gerry Adams once a date set on Irish
:17:38. > :17:43.unity, saying the Scottish referendum puts a whole structure
:17:44. > :17:52.of the UK are up for debate. We can now speak to Ian Paisley
:17:52. > :17:55.Junior, who represents North Antrim for the Democratic Unionist Party.
:17:55. > :18:05.And then signed as Thomas's constituency is in Mid and West
:18:05. > :18:07.
:18:07. > :18:14.Wales. Here -- and then Simon Thomas. Does this mean the soaked -
:18:14. > :18:17.- status quo for Wales is no longer an option? Last year, we won a
:18:17. > :18:20.referendum hands out of other powers and we see now with the
:18:20. > :18:24.Scottish independence referendum that the days of the current UK
:18:24. > :18:27.government set out events in Ireland 90 years ago and that is at
:18:27. > :18:37.an end. We have to rig a bigger the relationship between the
:18:37. > :18:48.
:18:48. > :18:52.constituent parts of the UK. -- we Her we look forward to that debate
:18:52. > :18:56.and we are having a debate which has taken Wales forward and take
:18:56. > :19:00.different place but it is the same kind of debate. Let me ask you
:19:00. > :19:05.about some of the practical repercussions for Northern Ireland.
:19:05. > :19:15.Winner instalment we have agreement that the one corporation tax
:19:15. > :19:19.
:19:19. > :19:28.devolved to Stormont. -- with the re-install mind. -- with a real
:19:28. > :19:38.I take issue. The United Kingdom is only as strong as each component
:19:38. > :19:43.
:19:43. > :19:48.part. -- I take this view. We share a land border with the -- with
:19:48. > :19:55.another country that has the lowest tax. Those peculiarities have to be
:19:55. > :20:00.adapted. If each is strong then we are together strong. I do not want
:20:00. > :20:06.to be part of a wee Northern Ireland as I do not think people
:20:06. > :20:09.want to be part of a wee Scotland or a wee Wales. We have the vision
:20:09. > :20:13.and things have to be done differently in each area to make
:20:13. > :20:18.the family work but a nation nonetheless of peoples that make us
:20:19. > :20:27.strong and diverse. Do you think there is a problem in arguing your
:20:27. > :20:31.case at the moment? No, and I will tell you why. And we get an amount
:20:31. > :20:41.of money to out run of an island. Because of the legacy of 40 years
:20:41. > :20:43.
:20:43. > :20:49.of terrorist violence, -- to run Northern Ireland. To do the similar
:20:49. > :20:53.deal in Scotland would cost them multiples of billions of pounds
:20:53. > :20:59.because their economy is so much stronger than ours, so wouldn't it
:20:59. > :21:04.be worth their while? And Scotland would want to see corporation tax
:21:04. > :21:08.reduced. We want to compete with a country that has the same land
:21:08. > :21:13.border of corporation tax at 12%. The idea is to reduce the
:21:13. > :21:19.corporation tax of hold of the United Kingdom so we can compete
:21:19. > :21:28.across the borders with Europe and the world. Let me ask you where
:21:28. > :21:34.Trident has got to with Wales. Some of the party members said
:21:34. > :21:38.absolutely not. What is going on with that now? I stood with Labour
:21:38. > :21:43.Party members outside Parliament last week to address a crowd
:21:43. > :21:47.protesting Trident. The mood of Wales is very much against renewing
:21:47. > :21:54.nuclear weapons. But more importantly, people are rusting why
:21:54. > :22:03.we are spending billions on nuclear weapons at a time of austerity cuts.
:22:03. > :22:09.-- people are asking fulls DUP they want to see -- people are asking
:22:09. > :22:14.why. They want to see the end of nuclear weapons. This is really
:22:14. > :22:20.about what the constituent parts of the UK should be now or in Europe,
:22:20. > :22:24.a Western European type of defence capability and also within NATO. It
:22:24. > :22:34.is clear the people of Wales and my constituency, an area which has
:22:34. > :22:36.
:22:36. > :22:43.been mentioned for Dryden, are very much against. I do not the nuclear
:22:43. > :22:48.weapons with gas and oil really mix. Will the DUP... I know you have
:22:48. > :22:53.considered coming in for the referendum campaign for the better
:22:53. > :23:03.to get the campaign, and where have you got on that now? I do not want
:23:03. > :23:05.
:23:05. > :23:09.to be part of a country where one are part becomes foreigners and my
:23:09. > :23:19.Scottish counterparts become foreign to me. My grandmother and
:23:19. > :23:26.
:23:26. > :23:34.brother-in-law of Scottish. We have Will the DUP be coming in to
:23:34. > :23:38.complain? What we have to do is have a debate which is framed in a
:23:38. > :23:42.way that is respectful and, more importantly, addresses the issues
:23:42. > :23:46.and so of being pejorative about people you do not actually like.
:23:46. > :23:50.And I think this debate will affect my future and all our futures in
:23:50. > :23:58.awe of the United Kingdom and we have all got the right to have a
:23:58. > :24:06.voice. -- all of the United Kingdom. Scottish nationalists have invited
:24:06. > :24:15.me to speak on this so why do -- so what I do not see why we would be
:24:15. > :24:18.having a debate in this way. As the Unionist I want to maintain and
:24:18. > :24:22.strengthen the Union. I can do it without being part of a platform
:24:22. > :24:32.and do it as being a member of his kingdom and making that argument
:24:32. > :24:32.
:24:33. > :24:38.but we hope we do not need to have What is in store for the next few
:24:38. > :24:48.days as Westminster and Holyrood settled back to the grindstone
:24:48. > :24:54.
:24:54. > :25:03.And for some analysis, I am joined this week by its Lord John McFall
:25:03. > :25:13.and the former SNP treasurer Ian Blackford. Sorry for my
:25:13. > :25:16.
:25:16. > :25:21.pronunciation. Thank you for coming If we look at the papers, all
:25:21. > :25:29.looking at the SNP Conference and NATO. Where you stand on that?
:25:29. > :25:31.think it is a very important position. We have to recognise the
:25:31. > :25:41.obligations we will house an independent nation to work together
:25:41. > :25:55.
:25:55. > :26:04.with our allies. A from Alex Salmond's speech, we have this idea
:26:04. > :26:09.that this is the next stage in the home rule journey. We want people
:26:09. > :26:14.to reflect on the kind of nation we would now like Scotland to be, so
:26:14. > :26:17.he is trying to reach out so many people. Who has he got in mind?
:26:17. > :26:22.think what yesterday showed is that democracy is alive and kicking and
:26:22. > :26:26.the SNP itself and I think the iron grip Alex Salmond has has now
:26:26. > :26:36.loosened and people saying, we do minute, what is this vision of
:26:36. > :26:40.independence will signing up for? For example, we have others saying
:26:40. > :26:48.one of the guarantees going into NATO would be to keep Trident, so
:26:48. > :26:52.forget about Trident going to promote from elsewhere. I think the
:26:52. > :26:56.SNP realises that now. They also realise in terms of their monetary
:26:56. > :27:00.union in keeping the pound that they are not going to have the
:27:00. > :27:04.fiscal independence they had before and their tax rates will vary. So
:27:04. > :27:07.the reality is catching up at the SNP and Alex Salmond has opened the
:27:07. > :27:17.door to add to be saying, we to minute, what does independence mean
:27:17. > :27:24.
:27:24. > :27:27.We understand the practicalities of where we are, it's about how we
:27:28. > :27:31.grow the economy in Scotland and present the aspiration we have to
:27:31. > :27:36.present a better future and there is no question that remain the with
:27:36. > :27:40.the pound is a decent way of doing that over the next few years. We
:27:40. > :27:45.have to grow economically and productivity and we need to create
:27:45. > :27:48.Scotland people want to invest in, whether domestic capital or
:27:48. > :27:52.indigenous capital to turn the country around and get away from
:27:52. > :27:59.austerity. To stay with the pound and the Bank of England is the
:27:59. > :28:03.sensible thing to do at this time to stop realistically, how much
:28:03. > :28:09.divergence can there be in fiscal policy and military policy in terms
:28:09. > :28:12.of practical terms, how much divergence can it be? I am a member
:28:12. > :28:17.of the economic affairs committee and we are in Scotland are looking
:28:17. > :28:21.at the situation of the economy post referendum. We asked Alex
:28:21. > :28:26.Salmond to meet us but he's too busy to come along on the issue.
:28:26. > :28:32.Every time we've had a witness before us, I've asked of our fiscal
:28:32. > :28:36.independence, how much will there be and unanimously people say if
:28:36. > :28:42.they signed up to being a member of the Military Policy Committee, the
:28:42. > :28:48.room for fiscal independence under an agreement is very very limited.
:28:48. > :28:52.People are beginning to realise these issues. Alex has been good at
:28:52. > :28:59.keeping the emotional temperature high but now we have two years to
:28:59. > :29:05.the referendum it will have to be lowered. What kind of debate will
:29:05. > :29:14.be heart over the next two years? The prospectus is in 2012 for the
:29:14. > :29:19.SNP. It is starting to happen and the case was put clearly the stock
:29:19. > :29:23.they have to be rules that have to be stuck to it in terms of what is
:29:23. > :29:27.permissible under the arrangements will have the Bank of England but
:29:27. > :29:31.the obligation we have is to show the people of Scotland we can
:29:31. > :29:38.accelerate growth in Scotland to allow us to loosen the purse
:29:38. > :29:43.strings. As a clear difference on policy and tuition fees and bus
:29:43. > :29:49.passes and so on. How we pay for these things and how we shape the
:29:49. > :29:53.debate is going to be an important one. I'm interested in how the
:29:54. > :29:59.debate is shaped, the prospectus isn't out until autumn next year,
:29:59. > :30:05.does it hang in the air or what you think filters through now? Had the
:30:05. > :30:11.debate progress? The programme has been interesting with people from
:30:11. > :30:18.different areas. The big issue facing us all is in a global world
:30:18. > :30:23.of uncertainty, how do we shape the future and how do we preserve our
:30:23. > :30:28.security individually and collectively? I can feel the debate
:30:28. > :30:33.is now coming onto the stage and there will be wider questions asked