:00:41. > :00:51.At more link will stop welcome to it some the Olympics. Up our top
:00:51. > :00:54.
:00:54. > :01:00.story today - the BBC is leaderless and in turmoil. After George
:01:00. > :01:07.Entwistle resigns, calls for Lord Patten to resign as well all
:01:07. > :01:11.because of the Newsnight report. How does the BBC restore trust
:01:11. > :01:18.following what has been described as shoddy journalism. We will hear
:01:18. > :01:27.from Harriet Harman and David Mellor.
:01:28. > :01:30.Britain fell silent at 11am today to remember the war dead. And
:01:30. > :01:32.coming up on Sunday Politics Scotland: Pay Day loans and those
:01:33. > :01:42.astronomical interest rates. The Consumer Affairs Minister goes head
:01:43. > :01:43.
:01:43. > :33:59.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1936 seconds
:33:59. > :34:05.to head with the trade body who We are already the second-largest
:34:05. > :34:11.donor's of humanitarian aid to the Syrian opposition. We have plans to
:34:11. > :34:15.increase that further up the situation requires it. Sorry, we
:34:15. > :34:18.are running out of time and I want to get on to Trident. What
:34:18. > :34:27.consideration have you given to scrapping Trident or not renewing
:34:27. > :34:33.it? We conducted a review and decided that Britain would be --
:34:33. > :34:37.would remain committed. The missiles have many decades of life
:34:37. > :34:42.left in them and the only question remaining is about replacing the
:34:42. > :34:45.submarines which carry them. We need to be investing now it in
:34:45. > :34:55.design and development work in order to be able to replace them in
:34:55. > :34:56.
:34:56. > :35:00.time for that date for also up as Nick Clegg on side for this? We
:35:00. > :35:04.have a programme where we will make the investment programme for
:35:04. > :35:09.submarines after the next election, but in order to be able to make
:35:09. > :35:19.that decision and 2016 we have to be able to invest in design work
:35:19. > :35:25.and engineering work right now. That is what I was announcing.
:35:25. > :35:35.Let's see what a former Conservative Secretary of State
:35:35. > :35:40.
:35:40. > :35:44.With the greatest respect to Michael Portillo, he has been out
:35:44. > :35:47.of government and out of the Ministry of Defence for a very long
:35:47. > :35:51.time and does not have access to the information that would allow
:35:51. > :35:57.him to make that judgment on a sound base is also up there is as
:35:57. > :36:01.we speak at least one a Royal Navy submarine armed with Trident
:36:01. > :36:06.missiles somewhere in the world. What exactly is it protecting us
:36:06. > :36:16.against? It is the ultimate guarantor of our sovereignty and
:36:16. > :36:16.
:36:16. > :36:22.independence. Protecting us from whom? I am not going to speculate
:36:22. > :36:26.on which countries attacking us but Mac we could not use the Trident
:36:26. > :36:33.missiles that there was a dirty bomb terror attack which is more
:36:33. > :36:39.likely. If we were to build this new generation of submarine
:36:40. > :36:45.missiles, we are talking about a capability which has a life of 50
:36:45. > :36:53.or 60 years from now.I cannot know which countries could have nuclear
:36:53. > :37:00.weapons over that period. If Iran goes nuclear, it could provoke an
:37:00. > :37:05.arms race in the Middle East for sup for the avoidance of doubt,
:37:05. > :37:11.you're for Trident to be renewed? That is the most efficient way to
:37:11. > :37:16.maintain a continuous nuclear deterrent. You're watching Sunday
:37:16. > :37:20.politics. Good afternoon and welcome to
:37:20. > :37:22.Sunday Politics Scotland. Coming up on the programme: New figures
:37:22. > :37:25.indicate the majority of people taking out high interest, pay-day
:37:25. > :37:31.loans are in employment and using the money to pay for essentials
:37:31. > :37:41.like heating and rent. With interest rates often in the 1,000%
:37:41. > :37:42.
:37:42. > :37:47.bracket, it's a high price to pay for a small loan. When we met them,
:37:47. > :37:54.they were thousands of pounds in debt and had taken on a loan of
:37:54. > :37:56.�200. That is typical for sup can we quarantee the referendum
:37:56. > :37:59.question will be easy to understand and unambiguous? We ask the
:37:59. > :38:02.Electoral Commissioner for Scotland. Time is crucial and the decisions
:38:02. > :38:04.are complex. How soon is too soon, to remove a vulnerable child from
:38:04. > :38:08.their family home? And is the adoption process for
:38:08. > :38:11.prospective parents taking too long?
:38:11. > :38:14.One more payday to go before Christmas and there's concern more
:38:14. > :38:17.people are getting into cycles of debt with payday loans - short term,
:38:17. > :38:22.unsecured amounts borrowed at a high rate of interest whether you
:38:22. > :38:24.get a wage or not. Citizens Advice Scotland have given us some interim
:38:24. > :38:31.figures for a new report which suggests the vast majority of
:38:31. > :38:33.people they see with payday loan problems are in work. Backed up by
:38:33. > :38:43.other research, the claim is that people are using them for
:38:43. > :38:47.essentials, not luxuries. Andrew Kerr reports.
:38:47. > :38:54.People used pawnbrokers and the past but now it is pay-day loans
:38:54. > :38:58.stores which have mushroomed other high streets. Credit cards and
:38:58. > :39:03.banks are less likely to offer money to people on low income so
:39:03. > :39:07.the filling the gap for people who cannot make ends meet. Citizens'
:39:07. > :39:14.Advice Scotland say at least 15% of their clients have paid a own
:39:14. > :39:21.problems. 76% of men were in work and new research has suggested that
:39:21. > :39:25.38 per cent of pay-day loans are used for essentials. People are
:39:25. > :39:31.getting these loans to pay their heating bills all it is not just
:39:31. > :39:34.for luxuries. These companies charge a high interest rates.
:39:34. > :39:41.some US states, the annual percentage rate of this kind of
:39:41. > :39:51.loan has been capped and there are calls for this to happen in the UK.
:39:51. > :39:51.
:39:51. > :40:00.This branch offers 1410 per set. The firms also have a high presence
:40:00. > :40:06.online. This company can offer me �250 in 24 minutes with an APR of
:40:06. > :40:12.4214 per cent. The problem comes when people miss a payment. One
:40:12. > :40:19.such family turn to their MSP for help. When we met them, at the
:40:19. > :40:23.worth thousands of pounds in debt having taken on a loan of �200.
:40:23. > :40:29.That is typical. One of the things I reckon we have to try to do is
:40:29. > :40:33.offset these company is. suggestion is that more access to
:40:33. > :40:36.ethical credit unions with lower rates of interest would help.
:40:36. > :40:41.Labour will would like more of these to be established although
:40:42. > :40:49.point out there is a place for pay- day loans was up the government is
:40:49. > :40:52.trying to do what they can with the power they have. The Scottish
:40:52. > :40:58.government have powers in a variety of ways which they can use to make
:40:58. > :41:03.it more difficult for pay-day known companies to operate in Scotland.
:41:03. > :41:07.That would include limiting the advertising budget and a new
:41:07. > :41:14.bankruptcy bill to help debtor's. The Scottish government say they
:41:14. > :41:19.are already doing all they can with the powers they have. We had been
:41:20. > :41:24.very successful marketing campaign on television encouraging people to
:41:24. > :41:28.use debt arrangements schemes. That is the correct route for a great
:41:29. > :41:33.many people who will be watching this interview and be worried, very
:41:33. > :41:40.worried indeed about paying their bills. For some people, pay-day
:41:40. > :41:47.loans can be handy close-up how did it work for you? I used it just the
:41:47. > :41:51.once? It was OK. The industry appears to be cleaning up its act
:41:51. > :41:55.with the new customer charter. More regulation could be around the
:41:55. > :41:59.corner with the Office of Fair Trading reporting back soon or
:41:59. > :42:04.reports some lenders are taking advantage of people we have
:42:04. > :42:06.financial problems. Just before we came on air, I was joined by the
:42:06. > :42:08.Liberal Democrat MP Jo Swinson, the UK Government's Consumer Affairs
:42:08. > :42:11.Minister, and from our Bristol studio, Russell Hamblin-Boone. He's
:42:11. > :42:14.the Chief Executive of the Consumer Finance Association, the trade body
:42:14. > :42:23.that represents 70% of the payday loan market. I began by asking Jo
:42:23. > :42:29.Swinson if there was any place for pay day loans?
:42:29. > :42:34.Yes, and I think as we saw from the customer at the end of the film, it
:42:34. > :42:40.can be handy for some people. There can suddenly be a big expense
:42:40. > :42:47.before up eulogise and this can be one way that people can deal with
:42:47. > :42:52.it. What we have seen from the banking sector over the last few
:42:52. > :42:58.years has also had an impact on the pay the loan sector. For some
:42:58. > :43:03.people, this can be not a problem at all. Equally, for some, this can
:43:03. > :43:08.create a huge problem, particularly where they are being used not for
:43:08. > :43:16.one-off expenses but to pay for the essentials as part our overall
:43:16. > :43:19.budgeting tool. That can be unsustainable. How can you justify
:43:19. > :43:25.giving loans to people whose financial position is
:43:26. > :43:33.unsustainable? How can you justify these interest rates at over 1000
:43:33. > :43:38.per cent? Be very small number of people are actually in financial
:43:38. > :43:42.difficulty. Around 6% of pay-day known customers get into financial
:43:42. > :43:47.difficulty and when they do, we do all we can to get them out of that
:43:47. > :43:56.situation. We give them better advice and freeze the interest and
:43:56. > :44:01.fees on their loans. On top of that, in terms of a PR, it does not give
:44:01. > :44:09.a true representation of what the cost is. It is a bit like me going
:44:09. > :44:14.into the car rental shop and being told it for cost me �15,000 a year.
:44:14. > :44:20.It is a short-term loan and the APR is confusing people. The actual
:44:20. > :44:24.cost of the lawn is around �25 for a very hundred pounds you borrow.
:44:24. > :44:29.We know of some people who have borrowed a couple of hundred pounds
:44:29. > :44:36.but can end up thousands of pounds in debt. At the moment, you can go
:44:36. > :44:40.on to their bank accounts and take money from them. The lenders i it
:44:40. > :44:50.is set have the limits on the number of times a loan can be
:44:50. > :44:52.
:44:52. > :44:57.rolled over. Am that they will only do that three time this sort
:44:57. > :45:02.prevents people from getting into excessive debt. Like other
:45:02. > :45:07.companies, we can get access to bank accounts to withdraw the money
:45:07. > :45:11.they owe us. We agree that with them and give them three days'
:45:11. > :45:20.notice so they know that is happening and that happens for many
:45:20. > :45:23.people. 70% of people pay the loan off on time in full. One of these
:45:23. > :45:31.things that is already happening is the government is working alongside
:45:31. > :45:36.the industry to improve the code of practice. That is about more
:45:36. > :45:39.transparency for what the exact costs will be. It is about more
:45:39. > :45:49.robust assessments to make sure people can afford me alone there
:45:49. > :45:50.
:45:50. > :45:56.taking out. Some lenders have been doing that multiple times. This can
:45:56. > :46:01.cause problems. In addition, the Office for Fair Trading is also
:46:01. > :46:07.looking at the issue of pay-day lending. There have been concerns
:46:08. > :46:13.expressed and there are looking at that in detail. It could be that
:46:13. > :46:16.further action is needed on the basis of their findings. There is a
:46:17. > :46:24.cap on loan rates in America. Should that be looked at here or
:46:24. > :46:30.should you look at that yourself? Capping is a very blunt instrument
:46:30. > :46:34.and trying to set prices, there are always problems if you set them to
:46:34. > :46:44.high and you can reduce the availability of credit for people.
:46:44. > :46:45.
:46:45. > :46:51.If you set it too low, it is not economic bowlfuls -- economic all.
:46:51. > :46:57.In Washington, the limited the number of times you can use a lawn.
:46:57. > :47:01.Before the restrictions were put in place, 80% of people were using
:47:01. > :47:04.regularly to the lenders and 20 per said illegal lenders. That
:47:04. > :47:10.situation was reversed over the period of months just am putting in
:47:10. > :47:13.those restrictions. What would you say to critics who say there is not
:47:13. > :47:21.enough government movement and that is a serious situation that is only
:47:21. > :47:26.going to get worse? The code of practice comes and later this month.
:47:26. > :47:30.As I say, we are expecting the report from the Office of Fair
:47:30. > :47:37.Trading. It makes sense to proceed on the evidence of the facts of the
:47:37. > :47:42.problem. There are other things we have been able to do in the
:47:42. > :47:46.meantime. Credit unions remain an option and the government is
:47:46. > :47:55.investing �38 million to help them improve their IT systems so they
:47:55. > :47:59.can offer a better alternative. Generally, trying to make sure that
:47:59. > :48:04.we help people with their cost of living because that is the real
:48:04. > :48:07.problem here. Cutting the income tax for lower and middle earners
:48:08. > :48:17.would help prevent people getting into the situation in the first
:48:18. > :48:24.
:48:24. > :48:31.What a new do to help people are are already in this situation?
:48:31. > :48:38.is part of the new code of conduct. It is important to recognise that
:48:38. > :48:42.there is advice out their. There is the money advice service, Citizens
:48:42. > :48:50.Advice. The best thing to do is go and get that advice. Rather than
:48:50. > :48:54.thinking that a short-term loan is the answer. Presumably they do that
:48:54. > :49:01.because they cannot get the money elsewhere. If they passed all those
:49:01. > :49:05.tests they could get money from the banks. For some individuals and
:49:05. > :49:10.difficulty it is a signal that there is a wider sustainability
:49:10. > :49:15.issue with their finances. Perhaps getting advice earlier on,
:49:15. > :49:18.management plans, discussions with creditors. That support is out
:49:18. > :49:25.their. It can be difficult for people to take a deep breath and
:49:25. > :49:35.get that advice but in the long run it is the better thing to do.
:49:35. > :49:38.are people using pay-day loans, and what do they spend them on? It is
:49:38. > :49:42.short-term, law commitment. Maybe people cannot use their credit
:49:42. > :49:50.cards but do not want to go into an unauthorised overdraft because
:49:50. > :50:00.there are fees associated with that. Around about 45% of our customers
:50:00. > :50:03.
:50:03. > :50:12.around d A p c one the socio- economic bracket. -- are in the
:50:12. > :50:17.ABC1. So people use these things for a variety of reasons. It is not
:50:17. > :50:22.our place to ask why, it is our place to lend responsibility and do
:50:22. > :50:26.a affordability checks and make sure we're not giving money to
:50:26. > :50:30.people in financial difficulty and making the situation any more
:50:31. > :50:40.difficult. We certainly do not want to lend to people who do not pay
:50:41. > :50:42.
:50:42. > :50:46.back. That sounds credible but what is the reality? Some lenders act in
:50:46. > :50:50.a responsible way but there are others who aren't. We need more
:50:50. > :50:57.information to help people tell between the different types,
:50:57. > :51:00.through the government, and other enforcers. The question the
:51:00. > :51:04.Scottish Government wants to give to voters in the independence
:51:04. > :51:09.referendum has been given to the electoral commission to be tested
:51:09. > :51:19.for fairness. Had also monitor campaign spending. The government
:51:19. > :51:22.estimates that conducting the poll will cost around �10 million. The
:51:22. > :51:27.historic Edinburgh agreement. Allowing the Scot's a legally
:51:27. > :51:35.binding vote on whether they want independence. Signed sealed and
:51:35. > :51:40.delivered. The question? Do you agree that Scotland should be an
:51:40. > :51:45.independent country? Critics argue that the working prompts a yes
:51:45. > :51:50.response and would wreck of the result. Electoral commission will
:51:50. > :51:56.now ask of Botha's, language specialists, politicians, and
:51:56. > :52:02.academics, aware of the question is clear, simple, and a neutral. --
:52:02. > :52:06.whether the question. The Scottish Government does not have to take
:52:06. > :52:16.that advice but it would have some explaining to do if it turned it
:52:16. > :52:17.
:52:17. > :52:21.down. The commission also has a key role in advising the Scottish
:52:21. > :52:27.Government on what have become highly controversial spending
:52:27. > :52:33.limits for the campaign in the 16 weeks up to and including the vote.
:52:33. > :52:38.Ministers want campaigners to spend up to �750,000. The electoral
:52:38. > :52:44.commission suggested up to �1.5 million. The Government argues that
:52:44. > :52:49.political parties be a limit to spending �250,000. The electoral
:52:49. > :52:54.commission has yet to set out a view on this. The Scottish
:52:54. > :52:57.Government's concern is that the collective spending of pro-Unionist
:52:57. > :53:02.could outstrip that of pro- independence parties. The
:53:02. > :53:08.commission aims to make further spending suggestions in January and
:53:08. > :53:11.to issue its few on the referendum question by February. Because
:53:11. > :53:18.Holyrood has the final say we will not know the exact question and the
:53:19. > :53:23.spending limits until MSPs vote on the referendum Bill later next year.
:53:23. > :53:29.I am joined by the head of the Electoral Commission, John
:53:29. > :53:37.McCormack. What criteria do you use to describe how much these units
:53:37. > :53:41.should be? We want to make sure that a cap is set at such a level
:53:41. > :53:47.that there can be the kind of campaigning which will inform
:53:48. > :53:53.reporters about the issue, subject, and question. So that they are well
:53:53. > :53:58.informed. Now, campaigning is very expensive. In the last Scottish
:53:58. > :54:05.Parliament dull and it was �1.5 million. The government has
:54:05. > :54:08.recommended a limit of �750,000. We believe that is a little bit law.
:54:08. > :54:16.We do not want excessive spending but we need sufficient spending for
:54:16. > :54:19.people to make a judgment. The pro- independence parties are concerned
:54:19. > :54:28.that the pro unionist parties have a larger resource plot which will
:54:28. > :54:34.give an unfair advantage. Do you take advantage -- account of that?
:54:34. > :54:40.Yes, we do. The two of the campaigns have their own planet.
:54:40. > :54:44.The biggest amount of funding they can spend. -- there or no limit.
:54:44. > :54:48.Since it is not a parliamentary election, people who are not
:54:48. > :54:52.members of a parliamentary party take a part, and we recommend,
:54:52. > :54:56.again, a higher level for them than that recommended by the Scottish
:54:56. > :55:03.Government. If so you have to look at everything together and see if
:55:03. > :55:09.it feels fair. At the look at the question and that decisions having
:55:09. > :55:19.to be made about the question -- if we look, you say it should be
:55:19. > :55:24.
:55:24. > :55:28.neutral and unambiguous. As this -- is this ambiguous language? Ours is
:55:28. > :55:34.an evidence based process. Lot of people are opining with little
:55:35. > :55:42.evidence. We have just began the process. Their voters are at the
:55:42. > :55:47.heart of the process. We will conduct focus groups, to understand
:55:47. > :55:51.that people appreciate what the question means in conversation.
:55:51. > :55:55.Focus groups work, will take place over the next eight weeks, and at
:55:55. > :56:01.the same time we will discuss the question with people who are
:56:01. > :56:05.interested. The Plain English Society, academics, campaigners. We
:56:05. > :56:09.will bring all that together in one of report and give it to the
:56:09. > :56:17.government in February. I should stress that will be a parliamentary
:56:17. > :56:24.decision. Has there been in the past a perceived value in a
:56:24. > :56:31.statement of fact? Such as, Scotland should be an independent
:56:31. > :56:37.country, followed by, I agree, or I disagree? We have not conducted
:56:37. > :56:42.research on that. Every referendum is different. We have to look at
:56:42. > :56:48.the context. We know what the question will be with 18 months to
:56:48. > :56:53.go. That was very unlikely for the alternative vote referendum. So at
:56:53. > :56:56.a referendum has its own context. Will people understand? Will they
:56:56. > :57:03.have time to know what the different outcomes will mean? So we
:57:03. > :57:07.look at everything in its own context. Many commentators are
:57:07. > :57:15.saying that the question is not so important because of the timescale
:57:15. > :57:20.people have to discuss the issue. Is that valid? The question will be
:57:20. > :57:25.the bedrock of any campaign. Voters must understand the question,
:57:25. > :57:29.believe it is neutral. And then the campaigners can get on with making
:57:29. > :57:37.the argument. Arguably it is the most important part of the
:57:37. > :57:41.referendum. Do you want to offer an opinion on the advantages of
:57:41. > :57:49.running a Yes campaign as opposed to a No campaign? Not in terms of
:57:49. > :57:53.their merits, if but in terms of the two different words? No, I
:57:53. > :57:59.don't want to do that! But the evidence we have talking to
:57:59. > :58:03.specialists and researchers, we will find out all those things in
:58:03. > :58:08.the context of the referendum. It is important to place it in the
:58:08. > :58:11.context of the referendum. Interestingly, the information we
:58:11. > :58:18.can been will then inform public awareness campaigns and how we
:58:18. > :58:24.communicate with the voters as the Commission. We know the government
:58:24. > :58:32.can reject your advice. What could be the effect of that? They would
:58:32. > :58:35.have to publish their reasons and an addendum to the referendum Bill.
:58:35. > :58:38.The electoral commission advice has been accepted that the time in the
:58:38. > :58:43.past. There have been misunderstandings - people
:58:43. > :58:49.commented that the weekend about an issue relating to a projected local
:58:49. > :58:53.income tax referendums in England, where the UK Government did not
:58:53. > :58:59.accept their advice and passed a bill which contain the question we
:58:59. > :59:03.had concerns with. But no referendums were held. But since
:59:03. > :59:07.then they have came back to us and we have since agreed on a form of
:59:07. > :59:11.Wapping we're happy to put to voters and these referendums may
:59:11. > :59:19.take place in the future. So if they do not take our advice in this
:59:19. > :59:23.case, but we are content advice has been taken, they would have to
:59:23. > :59:29.publish reasons for it. But it is correct that Parliament takes the
:59:29. > :59:32.final decision. You must put the voter first in a democracy. They
:59:32. > :59:39.have the influence, and their representatives in Parliament are
:59:39. > :59:47.the right people to take that advice. What sort of timescales are
:59:47. > :59:54.we looking at? We will submit a report in February so it can inform
:59:54. > :00:03.the Pill as it goes through Parliament from February onwards. -
:00:03. > :00:07.- bill. Coming up, we look at a complex task of removing a
:00:07. > :00:16.vulnerable child from their home to place them in their careful stock
:00:16. > :00:26.was the adoption process for potential parents take too long? --
:00:26. > :00:36.to place them and care. Les crossover to the newsroom forced. -
:00:36. > :00:41.
:00:41. > :00:45.Good afternoon. George Entwistle resigned and was not forced out of
:00:46. > :00:50.his job according to the chairman of the BBC Trust. He has defended
:00:50. > :00:55.his own role in the crisis which saw the resignation last night
:00:55. > :00:58.following an Newsnight broadcast which alleged a senior Conservative
:00:58. > :01:03.politician from the Margaret Thatcher either was involved in
:01:03. > :01:11.child abuse. It proved unfounded. Lord Patten says he must remain in
:01:11. > :01:15.his post as the BBC seek to restore public trust. There is not a
:01:15. > :01:23.bloodbath Gailes Links yet. But a headlines were dreadful for the BBC
:01:23. > :01:26.this morning. Ridiculed as out of touch and out of his debt, George
:01:26. > :01:36.Entwistle last night resigned, saying it was the honourable thing
:01:36. > :01:38.
:01:38. > :01:42.to do. That BBC should appoint a new leader. What finally put paid
:01:42. > :01:46.to him? Admitting he did not know in advance about the inaccurate
:01:46. > :01:51.Newsnight film and only learnt it was wrong Arras after that was
:01:51. > :01:58.reported elsewhere. The chairman of the BBC Trust attempted to stop the
:01:59. > :02:02.damage spreading. In the interest of the licence payer and the
:02:03. > :02:08.audience I have to make sure that the BBC has a grip and can put the
:02:08. > :02:14.horrendous crisis to one side for the moment. The BBC has been one of
:02:14. > :02:21.the most respected national institutions. Some commentators say
:02:21. > :02:27.his own job is on the line. After ship is stabilised his position
:02:27. > :02:37.could be secured. If he does not, if there is any sense of
:02:37. > :02:45.prevarication, he has had it. BBC's worst crisis for years,
:02:45. > :02:48.prompted by its failure in the journalism. Leads us speak now to
:02:48. > :02:55.our correspondent at the Broadcasting House in central
:02:55. > :03:05.London. What is the first thing the new acting Director General will
:03:05. > :03:05.
:03:05. > :03:09.He will have to take back decisions right away. After the broadcast
:03:09. > :03:12.mistakenly implying that a senior Conservative politician was
:03:12. > :03:22.imported child abuse, George Entwistle asked for a report into
:03:22. > :03:23.
:03:23. > :03:27.the broadcast. Now, that report is due on the Director General's desk
:03:27. > :03:33.today. If it shows that people did not do their jobs properly then it
:03:33. > :03:37.and Davies will decide what, if any, disciplinary action will be taken.
:03:37. > :03:41.He will also talk to Lord Patten today about the future of Newsnight
:03:41. > :03:46.as a programme. In the last hour we have heard from Downing Street who
:03:47. > :03:50.say that this is a very serious and difficult moment for the BBC. They
:03:50. > :03:59.do not believe it is an existential crisis but they say that the BBC
:03:59. > :04:06.People across the country fell silent at 11 am to remember those
:04:06. > :04:16.who gave their lives and war. Other parades were held by British troops
:04:16. > :04:21.
:04:21. > :04:31.The Queen, at the Cenotaph. Leading the remembrance. At the 11th hour,
:04:31. > :04:41.
:04:41. > :04:51.are the 11th day, of the 11th month, Around the UK, the country pause to
:04:51. > :04:52.
:04:52. > :05:01.remember. In Afghanistan at the British base, the honoured those
:05:01. > :05:07.they have lost. For the Queen this year, there was added poignancy,
:05:07. > :05:12.knowing her grandson is currently serving in Afghanistan. The royal
:05:12. > :05:15.party share the worries and concerns of other military families.
:05:15. > :05:23.From political leaders to representatives of the Commonwealth,
:05:23. > :05:29.it is ad of calm reflection. For the veterans, the march past
:05:29. > :05:39.remains a moment of immense pride. As another year passes, it is their
:05:39. > :05:44.
:05:44. > :05:53.chance to honour the sacrifices of That's all the news for now. More
:05:53. > :05:58.here at 6:00pm. Here in Scotland, people have also
:05:58. > :06:02.fallen silent on Remembrance Sunday. Me First Minister paid tribute to
:06:02. > :06:11.the war dead in Edinburgh and in Glasgow, hundreds of former
:06:11. > :06:16.soldiers and their families stood beside the Cenotaph. On the 11th
:06:16. > :06:26.hour of the 11th the of the 11th month, we gather to make our act of
:06:26. > :06:41.
:06:41. > :06:44.Scottish Water is going to ask its customers that they want to pay
:06:44. > :06:50.more for a better service. The public body is launching a
:06:50. > :06:57.consultation on its future. It is the biggest test of customer
:06:57. > :07:02.opinion since Scottish Water was formed 10 years ago.
:07:02. > :07:06.Scotland face the first of three Bottom Test matches this afternoon.
:07:06. > :07:11.Up it is sure to be a severe test for Scotland to have never beaten
:07:11. > :07:21.the All Blacks in any of their 28 previous meetings. The match is a
:07:21. > :07:22.
:07:22. > :07:29.It looks like we are being smiled on today for Remembrance Sunday.
:07:29. > :07:36.They pride picture across most of Scotland. A bit more in the way of
:07:36. > :07:46.cloud across the North but still some sun coming through. Quite
:07:46. > :07:48.
:07:48. > :07:51.uneasy with the fresh north- Now, when is the right time to
:07:51. > :07:54.remove a vulnerable child from their family home and put them up
:07:54. > :07:56.for adoption? It's a debate that's gaining momentum at Holyrood, with
:07:56. > :08:01.a parliamentary inquiry asking if decisions are being made quickly
:08:01. > :08:06.enough. But there's a warning from some social workers that a push for
:08:06. > :08:08.earlier intervention could break-up families unnecessarily. As more
:08:08. > :08:17.people are encouraged to consider adoption, as part of national
:08:17. > :08:24.adoption week, Hayley Jarvis has been looking at the issues.
:08:24. > :08:29.This is our new home and we have only been here a few days. Jane is
:08:29. > :08:39.preparing for the arrival of the two children she talks to a dot
:08:39. > :08:45.with her husband in the new year. We have seen pictures of these
:08:45. > :08:52.children and we fell in love. We have studied every inch of them and
:08:52. > :08:58.it was an instinctive thing. We still have no doubt that they will
:08:59. > :09:05.be our children and we will love them for the S of our lives. It is
:09:05. > :09:09.good we were adopted together because we were not split up.
:09:09. > :09:15.was adverts like this that prompted Jane and her husband to contact
:09:15. > :09:18.Barnardos. The charity are encouraging more families to do the
:09:18. > :09:25.same but are also putting pressure on the Scottish government to move
:09:25. > :09:30.faster when it comes to putting neglected children into care.
:09:30. > :09:35.their child protection issues and there is abuse, they will not delay,
:09:35. > :09:39.but there can be a tendency to leave children too long way it is
:09:40. > :09:47.neglect, in situations where a chap -- families are not able to meet
:09:47. > :09:54.the standards needed. There are more than 16,000 looks after
:09:54. > :09:59.children in Scotland. In 2010, 2% were under the age of one but the
:10:00. > :10:04.majority were older children for whom it is more difficult to find
:10:04. > :10:12.Secure Homes for stuck up should intervention be made sooner? It was
:10:12. > :10:15.an issue made during a debate in Holyrood this week. There appears
:10:15. > :10:20.to be a growing consensus that decisions need to be made more
:10:20. > :10:25.quickly. There are a lot of different stakeholders who need to
:10:25. > :10:28.come together to ensure we can take the work forward. We do not want to
:10:28. > :10:38.speed things too fast in case it has negative consequences for
:10:38. > :10:42.
:10:42. > :10:47.children. Here in Castle up, the emphasis is very much on it early
:10:47. > :10:52.intervention. How to form those vital bonds between children and
:10:52. > :10:58.parents in the early stages of the child's life will start some
:10:58. > :11:01.children are referred here by social workers. A lot of our work
:11:01. > :11:06.is about empowering the parents and insuring the parents understand
:11:06. > :11:12.they have the skills and the talents. They can turn their lives
:11:13. > :11:18.around. Investing in services like this is what some social workers
:11:18. > :11:22.say is the key to preventing more children from ending up in care.
:11:22. > :11:27.really need to ask why more children are coming into care. If
:11:27. > :11:32.we do not know the reasons for that we cannot managed to successfully
:11:32. > :11:37.keep more children within their families. There is no point in
:11:37. > :11:43.having good family support services that prevent the drama and crisis
:11:43. > :11:47.of the family break down. Up should be a presumption be to give parents
:11:47. > :11:50.a second chance with support or should the authorities act more
:11:50. > :11:53.quickly to remove them from their families.
:11:53. > :11:55.Well, with me now is Neil Hunter, who is the principal reporter of
:11:55. > :11:58.the children's reporter administration, which takes many of
:11:58. > :12:00.the key decisions in the adoption process, and Barbara Hudson who is
:12:00. > :12:07.the Scottish Director of the British Association for Adoption
:12:07. > :12:12.and Fostering. Before we look at the process of
:12:12. > :12:17.adoption and how long that takes, to pack up on a point in the film,
:12:17. > :12:21.if it is obvious the child is being abused they can be removed quickly,
:12:21. > :12:28.but it is this great ad up of neglect. Do you except that is a
:12:28. > :12:32.big problem? I would totally endorse what was said in the film.
:12:32. > :12:36.There is the real problem in understanding what we mean by
:12:36. > :12:39.neglect and what the impact is. Neglect means not being the child
:12:40. > :12:45.in mind are not thinking about what they have to meet our weather may
:12:45. > :12:48.feel comfortable or says. Neglect means a child waking up and not
:12:48. > :12:55.knowing what is there for breakfast and not feeling safe going to sleep
:12:55. > :12:59.at night. The effect of neglect is long term because it begins to wear
:12:59. > :13:05.away at a child's sense of self- esteem, confidence and happiness.
:13:05. > :13:15.That is not the good start. Have we underestimated the effect in the
:13:15. > :13:15.
:13:15. > :13:22.past? And up to put it starkly, if we have not seen bruises on
:13:22. > :13:26.children, our attention has perhaps been distracted. Understanding the
:13:26. > :13:31.needs of very small children and how important it is for them to
:13:31. > :13:36.have the optimum care to flourish. We have focused on demonstrating
:13:36. > :13:43.that injury has a card and not understood that not receiving love,
:13:43. > :13:47.care, and that tension is abuse. It is neglect and it is abused. Once
:13:47. > :13:52.the difficult decision is made that the child is permanently removed
:13:52. > :13:59.from their birth family and put up for adoption, what is happening in
:13:59. > :14:04.the speed with which that is taking place? The delay in the process
:14:04. > :14:09.took place before that. One of the things our research has shown us
:14:09. > :14:13.that after the child has been removed from their home, there is a
:14:13. > :14:20.period in which we start to think about the possibility of a return
:14:20. > :14:24.to the parents and it assessing it parent will capacity. The ability
:14:24. > :14:32.to safely look after the child in the long term is one of the things
:14:32. > :14:38.that can take some time to decide. One of the things we can do to
:14:38. > :14:46.improve arrangements and Scotland is looking at headlines surrounding
:14:46. > :14:51.Pendle capacity. -- time lines. Presumably if you do not do that,
:14:51. > :14:57.the figures suggest the average time is two years', which is a
:14:57. > :15:01.massive amount of time in a child's life. I am very optimistic about
:15:01. > :15:07.parents' ability to recover from things like alcohol problems but we
:15:07. > :15:12.need to understand that can take many years. Two or three years to
:15:12. > :15:17.recover from issues parents are facing in the context of a young
:15:17. > :15:25.child creates a disconnect for sup what should happen to the child in
:15:25. > :15:35.those circumstances? We have to be able to work to plan a if that is
:15:35. > :15:38.about returning to parents. We have to be hoped for of that but have an
:15:38. > :15:43.alternative plan in the background which can be brought into play it
:15:43. > :15:49.when it becomes obvious parents cannot look after their children.
:15:49. > :15:52.Do you have any concerns about that time scale? Some critics of the
:15:52. > :15:59.present process say that for too long, parents have been given the
:15:59. > :16:07.benefit of the doubt to the detriment of the child. Is it OK to
:16:07. > :16:12.say they could be fine in a couple of years' time? It is a hugely
:16:12. > :16:19.complicated and very important decision and what happens is that
:16:19. > :16:23.everyone in the system recognises the lifelong and life-changing
:16:23. > :16:29.significance of the decisions. There is a real desire to get it
:16:29. > :16:34.right and sometimes we will never know if we got it right. You have
:16:34. > :16:39.to take a risk and make the decision on balance. We know that
:16:39. > :16:43.the damage done to children of living a provisional existence, not
:16:44. > :16:49.knowing what is going to happen to them, their temporary foster carers
:16:49. > :16:54.and what will happen to them, that is damaging. The delay is damaging
:16:54. > :16:58.and we need to try to work together to have confidence in the
:16:59. > :17:03.efficiency of the process and realising that if we take these
:17:03. > :17:10.bold decisions for children, that people will support what is being
:17:10. > :17:14.done rather than getting into a culture of blame. Interesting way,
:17:14. > :17:18.it is extraordinarily rare flurry Sheriff to say the social work
:17:18. > :17:24.department should never have been involved. It is extremely rare for
:17:24. > :17:29.them to say we got it wrong right from the start. It is very much a
:17:29. > :17:33.case of how long it takes to get to a position where we decide it is no
:17:33. > :17:39.longer feasible for the child to consider the birth parents as their
:17:39. > :17:43.carers for the rest of their lives. Everyone watching this would Asim
:17:43. > :17:46.it is a hugely complex process you have to go through it. We do not
:17:46. > :17:53.have time today to discuss the alternative of keeping children
:17:53. > :17:57.with parents. I just wondered, would it be the case and do you
:17:57. > :18:00.have any concerns that different children seething sea around the
:18:00. > :18:05.country because of their own cultural make-up might come to a
:18:05. > :18:10.different decision about a child with the same set of circumstances?
:18:10. > :18:13.I would hope there would be consistency across the country.
:18:13. > :18:19.Children's panel members are drawn from the community and it reflects
:18:19. > :18:21.the cultural make-up of the community. I would hope that faced
:18:21. > :18:25.with the good quality information around children and their
:18:25. > :18:30.backgrounds, they have won decision to make and that is about the best
:18:30. > :18:36.interests of the child. I would hope that is consistent across the
:18:36. > :18:41.country. I would agree that we are not always confident there is that
:18:41. > :18:45.consistency across the country. Because the amount of work is
:18:45. > :18:49.different in different places, the challenge facing people and some ad
:18:49. > :18:52.is is that they're making decisions are very rarely of this
:18:52. > :18:56.significance and that is the challenge for them, whereas in
:18:56. > :19:00.other places they are routinely looking at these matters of up one
:19:01. > :19:05.of the things we are seeking to work together through our
:19:05. > :19:09.respective organisations and other groups, is to try to get it more
:19:09. > :19:12.co-ordinated across Scotland. I do not think there is much
:19:12. > :19:22.disagreement and it is very much about how we all get together and
:19:22. > :19:27.
:19:27. > :19:30.Do you think a co-ordinated response is needed? We are working
:19:30. > :19:40.together to share exactly wrecking the practice that are at describes
:19:40. > :19:48.
:19:48. > :19:52.to the best effect possible. I look Weeks of speculation over the
:19:52. > :19:59.future of the Scottish Football Manager Craig Levein came to ahead
:19:59. > :20:06.when the Scottish FA announced he had been sacked. We need a new
:20:06. > :20:08.manager to turn around the campaign and move us for what. Alex Salmond
:20:08. > :20:18.is the longer selling First Minister in Scotland, his sights
:20:18. > :20:26.are now set on another goal. I am not saying I will go on and on. I
:20:26. > :20:30.want to see Scotland win the referendum. More homework on the
:20:30. > :20:37.horizon for prospective teachers as the Government proposes a literacy
:20:37. > :20:40.and numeracy tests to raise standards. And the chance in a
:20:40. > :20:46.lifetime was bloated on when scalp the islanders voted in a referendum
:20:46. > :20:53.to run their island for the of charge. It needs to be done for the
:20:54. > :21:03.good of the island. That time of the day now where we take a moment
:21:04. > :21:08.
:21:08. > :21:17.I am joined by the SNP locker Kate Hogan's, and Labour commentator,
:21:17. > :21:24.Ian Smart. Thank you both for coming in. The headlines - the BBC
:21:24. > :21:31.all over the front pages. Where is this going? It could not get any
:21:31. > :21:37.more bizarre or serious for the BBC. I would agree with lots of
:21:37. > :21:44.commentators to death. If they can get a grip and steady the ship,
:21:44. > :21:49.then a joint -- then at the sad resignation of the George Entwistle
:21:49. > :21:56.will have sorted things out. But, from my perspective, it is
:21:56. > :22:06.important to get the story back on to the victims and not the media.
:22:06. > :22:06.
:22:06. > :22:11.Where does this go from here? an extraordinary development. In my
:22:11. > :22:16.day job their last line of any police statement is, I cannot I
:22:16. > :22:26.cannot identify the accused. To run the report without that assumes his
:22:26. > :22:28.
:22:28. > :22:32.astonishing. You could not make it up. I just wonder about the
:22:32. > :22:38.illegality of Newsnight not mentioning some body by name but in
:22:38. > :22:44.the context of a wider social media context. That is an interesting
:22:44. > :22:51.legal issue, apart from anything else. Yes, but it was a pretty
:22:51. > :22:56.narrow group of people they were identifying. A senior member of the
:22:56. > :23:01.Thatcher either, but not elected. You were talking potentially have a
:23:01. > :23:05.dozen people. The curious would immediately gone to the Internet to
:23:05. > :23:08.find out who was being talked about and they knew that perfectly well.
:23:08. > :23:16.When the lawyers said that they could not name the man and a
:23:16. > :23:23.programme, alarm bells should have been ringing. Well be on Newsnight.
:23:23. > :23:27.There is something about people who use social media. We are two such.
:23:27. > :23:33.They need to show restraint and responsibility in how the use it.
:23:33. > :23:39.The more that the situations arise where people are wrongly named for
:23:39. > :23:46.the world to see, then the more likely that we will have
:23:46. > :23:53.restrictions, legal restrictions, on how you can use social media.
:23:53. > :23:56.For the victims, potentially? Absolutely. That is the worst thing
:23:56. > :24:00.that could happen. People who would have been thinking about coming
:24:00. > :24:03.forward and making disclosures will see the environment changed and
:24:03. > :24:10.think about something very different. If people must put them
:24:10. > :24:15.first and think about their needs and interests first. Earlier on we
:24:16. > :24:24.spoke about Pete -- pay-day loans. What changes can be brought an
:24:24. > :24:28.effectively? They are not illegal. I don't hold to the view that they
:24:28. > :24:33.shouldn't be illegal. For riskier credit, people pay a premium, that
:24:33. > :24:38.is the way of the world, but it should not be impossible to say
:24:38. > :24:43.that some of these are ludicrous interest rates are made illegal. I
:24:43. > :24:48.might be wrong but I have a memory of such look -- interest rates
:24:48. > :24:52.being illegal. At some point in the deregulation that led to the crash
:24:52. > :24:59.somebody decided that it should be for the market to decide. A
:24:59. > :25:09.shocking situation. There are so Captain America. What should happen
:25:09. > :25:16.
:25:16. > :25:25.here? -- there is a cap in America. They should be made illegal. They
:25:25. > :25:28.prey on the vulnerable. Law income people in vulnerable people should
:25:28. > :25:33.invest in credit unions, access to the same financial services and
:25:33. > :25:37.benefits that the rest of us enjoy. There is something wrong with a
:25:37. > :25:41.society and system that rewards are rich people for being able to pay
:25:41. > :25:47.their gas bills by direct debit, and punishes poor people because
:25:47. > :25:53.they rely on weekly payment methods. We have to move away from that and
:25:53. > :25:57.create a level playing field for poor people so that they enjoy the
:25:57. > :26:05.St benefits as others. Outlawing pay-day loans is an essential part
:26:05. > :26:15.of that. Labour for independence have been meeting tomorrow. Who Ali
:26:15. > :26:18.
:26:18. > :26:28.and what effect will it have? are they? I did not mean that in a
:26:28. > :26:30.
:26:30. > :26:37.loaded way. Dennis can have an is a long-standing friend of mine but he
:26:37. > :26:47.is not a member of the Labour Party. Neither is Ricky Ross. He might
:26:47. > :26:47.
:26:47. > :26:54.have voted for Labour in the past. Socialists for independence? To be
:26:54. > :26:59.fair, we have them. Colin Fox, the not to be forgotten man of Scottish
:26:59. > :27:04.politics. There are people on the left who support independence but
:27:04. > :27:11.the idea that there is some kind of secret section of the Labour party
:27:11. > :27:17.that supports independence is nonsense. I think it is a
:27:18. > :27:21.legitimate organisation and more power to them. Labour minded people
:27:22. > :27:31.coming together to support independence is a very good thing
:27:32. > :27:33.
:27:33. > :27:38.for the Yes movement. Are we to tied into labels? Absolutely. To
:27:38. > :27:42.have to categorise people is unhelpful. Both camps actually hack