:00:39. > :00:49.Good afternoon. Welcome to the programme. The coalition presides
:00:49. > :00:50.
:00:50. > :01:00.over the weakest recovery for generations. Labour's lead God the
:01:00. > :01:07.
:01:07. > :01:14.Prime Minister wants to negotiate a Is the plan achievable? Would we be
:01:14. > :01:18.better or worse off outside the EU? The two sides go head-to-head.
:01:18. > :01:21.In Scotland: As the Europe debate picks up speed, the Deputy First
:01:21. > :01:31.Minister rights to all the EU Foreign Ministers to set out the
:01:31. > :01:31.
:01:31. > :37:38.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2166 seconds
:37:38. > :37:46.Next time round, they are far more likely to be talking in the same
:37:46. > :37:49.line as the UK. Britain has assimilated more than 3,000 EU
:37:49. > :37:58.directives and regulations every year. How many have been repealed?
:37:58. > :38:01.Give me an example of something having been returned. I accept
:38:01. > :38:07.there is a lot of body of legislation. So the answer is
:38:07. > :38:12.nothing? I do not know. I am dealing with financial services.
:38:12. > :38:17.knew against repatriation of power? I am not against it, but if EU
:38:17. > :38:21.choose not to have something in a given area, it is repatriated for
:38:21. > :38:25.everyone. If we talk about it in those terms we stand much more
:38:25. > :38:31.chance than if we want to grab it back and never mind what happens to
:38:31. > :38:38.other people's. If repatriation is not substantial,
:38:38. > :38:43.you will campaign to leave in the referendum? Yes. Do you think you
:38:43. > :38:47.will carry the bulk of the Tory party with you on that view?
:38:47. > :38:57.think so. That is the current opinion-poll evidence of the
:38:57. > :39:05.members of the MPs, but I do not think that is the key question. It
:39:05. > :39:11.is not whether the key Tory party votes to accept this. The 14 years
:39:11. > :39:16.in the Tory party tells me anything, if people are wiser than their
:39:16. > :39:26.leaders, the problem we have left is leaving it to ministers. I
:39:26. > :39:33.
:39:33. > :39:38.believe my trust in the British Welcome to the programme. The rally
:39:38. > :39:42.sets off, destination Monte Carlo, but the big political question is,
:39:42. > :39:46.are the accelerating towards the Continent or reversing from it?
:39:46. > :39:51.Who is in the navigation seat? Depression and anxiety are
:39:51. > :39:54.illnesses that can affect everyone. One in four Scots are impacted with
:39:55. > :40:01.mental health issues. Are there enough services to support this
:40:01. > :40:06.condition? Thank you for joining us. Nicola
:40:06. > :40:09.Sturgeon has written to EU foreign ministers to assure them of
:40:09. > :40:14.Scotland's commitment to the European Union, putting distance
:40:14. > :40:19.between Holyrood and Westminster's position on Brussels. But it is the
:40:19. > :40:22.Scottish voters who will be in the driving seat.
:40:22. > :40:28.These old cars are being driven from Glasgow across Europe this
:40:28. > :40:32.weekend, to compete in the Monte Carlo Rally. As they drive from
:40:32. > :40:35.country to country, Scotland's future relationship with the
:40:35. > :40:40.European Union will probably not be uppermost in the minds of their
:40:40. > :40:48.drivers. It was not preoccupying those who turned out to see them
:40:48. > :40:51.more. It does not keep me awake at night. We are better in than out.
:40:51. > :40:55.wonder where we are going on Scotland.
:40:55. > :41:00.What is less clear is who voters' trust most to look after Scotland's
:41:00. > :41:05.best interests in Europe. Is it Alex Salmond, who wants you to vote
:41:05. > :41:09.for independence, and then let him negotiate with the European Union
:41:09. > :41:15.for Scotland to continue to participate but as a full member
:41:15. > :41:24.state? Or was it David Cameron, who thinks he can cut a better deal for
:41:24. > :41:34.Britain in the European Union and will then give they say on whether
:41:34. > :41:37.
:41:37. > :41:42.Too many fellow Scots whose values we share simply do not trust her
:41:42. > :41:46.motives. When it comes to general elections, they see us as London's
:41:46. > :41:50.Party in Scotland, not Scotland representatives in London. When it
:41:50. > :41:56.comes to elections in the Scottish parliament, they want to vote for a
:41:56. > :42:05.party that will put Scotland first. Too few truly believe that boss. I
:42:05. > :42:08.want to see us as the party off we can and we will. If voters do not
:42:08. > :42:14.trust the party generally, made that also applied to the
:42:14. > :42:19.referendum? -- apply to the referendum about the European
:42:19. > :42:23.Union? People have to have their say. In terms of the Scottish
:42:23. > :42:27.Conservatives, we are fully involved in the Better Together
:42:27. > :42:32.Campaign, and we want people to have a say.
:42:32. > :42:35.David Cameron's promise about to vote on the EU is designed to
:42:36. > :42:41.appease the Euro-sceptics on his backbenches and to appeal to Tory
:42:41. > :42:48.voters who have drifted away to the UK Independence Party. That wants
:42:48. > :42:58.us to leave the EU. In Scotland, the promise of another referendum
:42:58. > :42:59.
:42:59. > :43:04.quickly change the dynamic of the independence debate. Alex Salmond
:43:04. > :43:07.and David Cameron are like peas in a pod. There will always put their
:43:07. > :43:15.party's interest before the interests of the people of the
:43:15. > :43:19.country. It does not come from this Parliament, this Government or the
:43:19. > :43:23.people from Scotland, it comes from the banks of the Thames, and a Tory
:43:23. > :43:28.coalition dull Dutch government are heading towards the exit door, and
:43:28. > :43:32.a Labour opposition has still have to clarify what they think about it.
:43:32. > :43:36.The Deputy First Minister took this message to Dublin, where she told a
:43:36. > :43:40.business confident -- conference that a EU referendum would create
:43:40. > :43:43.uncertainty. An Irish government minister suggested Scottish
:43:43. > :43:48.independence might create uncertainty about Scotland's place
:43:49. > :43:57.in the EU. It Scotland became independent, they would have to
:43:57. > :43:59.apply for membership, which can be a lengthy process.
:43:59. > :44:06.On the road to the independence referendum, there will be many
:44:06. > :44:10.voices from a -- across Europe. In the end it is the Scottish voters
:44:10. > :44:16.in the driving seat, and their choices at the ballot box that will
:44:16. > :44:21.determine the Dow -- direction Scotland will head.
:44:21. > :44:27.Joining me is the Cabinet Secretary for Culture and external affairs,
:44:28. > :44:32.the SNP's Fiona Hyslop. We are hearing that Nicola Sturgeon is
:44:32. > :44:36.writing to European foreign ministers today to brandish her
:44:36. > :44:42.pro-European credentials, compared to the Prime Minister. Is the
:44:42. > :44:46.supply for help, after the snub from the European Commission for
:44:46. > :44:50.talks, and the UK -- UK government said they would not take part in
:44:50. > :44:53.discussions. No, it is clear we need to make sure that European
:44:53. > :45:03.capitals know that the Scottish government's position is we are
:45:03. > :45:08.
:45:08. > :45:12.pure -- pro European. We remain in continuous discussions and part of
:45:12. > :45:18.the European Union. I am pleased the Irish Minister has confirmed
:45:18. > :45:23.that she also sees a continuing membership for Scotland, and the
:45:23. > :45:28.negotiations that would take place would take place between 2014 and
:45:28. > :45:32.2016, in a way that she thinks is logical under way forward. It is
:45:32. > :45:36.distinct from David Cameron, who wants to head out of Europe or
:45:36. > :45:42.threatened to head out. That is not good for Scotland, and if we want
:45:42. > :45:46.jobs and services predicted, -- protected, there is a clear
:45:46. > :45:56.distinction that the unfortunate position as those who are against
:45:56. > :45:56.
:45:56. > :46:00.independence would prefer to gamble on a Tory future. Where did she say
:46:00. > :46:09.in the e-mail to Nicola Sturgeon that Scotland would not have to
:46:09. > :46:14.apply for membership? She twice said that to the BBC in the clip
:46:14. > :46:20.that it does not. It is unfortunate that the BBC has misconstrued her
:46:20. > :46:30.position, and it is helpful that she has recognised the importance
:46:30. > :46:38.
:46:38. > :46:41.that Scotland would have across Europe. The the fact we're lying on
:46:41. > :46:46.-- relying on a Conservative government to allow them to
:46:46. > :46:50.continue to decide for Scotland, I do not think that is acceptable. I
:46:50. > :46:55.think Europe wants to see collective reform, and the idea of
:46:55. > :46:58.unilateral reform put forward by David Cameron is not acceptable.
:46:58. > :47:04.When the Crighton said that Scotland would have to apply for
:47:04. > :47:09.membership, and we have that full club so you can hear it.
:47:09. > :47:13.In Scotland we are dominated by the constitutional debate. One of the
:47:13. > :47:22.issues is, with an independent Scotland be welcome by his EU
:47:22. > :47:25.neighbours? Welcome, by all means, but there are legal constraints. It
:47:25. > :47:31.Scotland were to become independent, they would have to apply for
:47:31. > :47:41.membership, which can be a lengthy process. Even with the very
:47:41. > :47:41.
:47:41. > :47:46.advanced and well-integrated countries like Iceland, it still
:47:46. > :47:51.has a task in terms of transforming his regulation and fitting end to
:47:51. > :47:55.the European requirements, and that would be the case for Scotland as
:47:55. > :48:03.well, I think. There would be an application and negotiation process
:48:03. > :48:08.as it is for any country. Would that be fairly smooth or difficult?
:48:08. > :48:13.I do not know. It is unprecedented. It hasn't happened before. I do not
:48:13. > :48:21.see why it would be a terribly complex process, but negotiations
:48:21. > :48:28.for membership are all was painstaking, and complex, but I do
:48:28. > :48:34.not see why it would be difficult. I think it would lead to the
:48:34. > :48:43.accession at the end of the process, but it would take time. It is very
:48:43. > :48:46.much up to the people of Scotland to what they choose to do. So she
:48:46. > :48:50.said Scotland would have to apply for membership, do you agree with
:48:50. > :48:53.what she is saying? I agree with the mill where she says there is no
:48:53. > :49:03.situation where Scotland would leave the European Union, which is
:49:03. > :49:05.
:49:05. > :49:08.also the point she makes about Scotland's position being unique.
:49:08. > :49:18.And this means the position of Scotland would have to be developed
:49:18. > :49:19.
:49:19. > :49:25.in terms of the terms and conditions required, but also the
:49:25. > :49:29.Irish minister in her e-mail said she recognises the period of the
:49:29. > :49:35."yes" vote in 2014, and a period where these terms and conditions in
:49:35. > :49:43.relation to membership, and the technical details would take until
:49:43. > :49:49.2016. We have a member -- been a member for many years, so we are
:49:49. > :49:59.quite distinct, but the difference is her vision is for corporation
:49:59. > :49:59.
:49:59. > :50:05.with her European partners. -- our vision for corporation.
:50:05. > :50:08.She says Scotland would have to apply, but Nicola Sturgeon says
:50:08. > :50:13.that is not the case, but there is no political difference between
:50:13. > :50:23.Ireland and Scotland. There is the period between a "yes" vote and
:50:23. > :50:24.
:50:24. > :50:27.independence, when the terms in relation to a membership and
:50:27. > :50:32.compliance would be decided, I have every confidence we would be
:50:32. > :50:36.welcomed. The Irish Minister has said that. Many ministers I meet
:50:36. > :50:41.you also say that. The biggest risk to Scotland and its future is
:50:41. > :50:44.relying on a Conservative government, and that is where the
:50:44. > :50:49.Labour Party is. We have to give the people of Scotland the decision
:50:49. > :50:54.and leadership. How important is the European debate in Scotland for
:50:54. > :50:58.the "yes" campaign? It is important in relation to the economy, the
:50:58. > :51:03.environment, and in terms of workers' rights, we are already
:51:03. > :51:08.seeing the Conservative government wanting to undermine using the
:51:08. > :51:11.welfare system, those in low-paid work, relying on benefits. Then
:51:11. > :51:15.there is an attack on employment protection that David Cameron wants
:51:15. > :51:23.to see, these are relevant. These are not abstract issues, they
:51:23. > :51:27.affect people a free day. The future of energy policy, a Scot and
:51:27. > :51:35.has a great deal to contribute, I think was a very important economic
:51:35. > :51:38.issue, not just political. Thank you very much.
:51:38. > :51:45.In the under studio is the former Labour Chancellor of the Exchequer
:51:45. > :51:50.and leader of the pro-union together is Better campaign,
:51:50. > :52:00.Alistair Darling. -- Better Together Campaign. Do you agree
:52:00. > :52:04.with Ed Miliband's position on the EU in/out referendum? If you look
:52:04. > :52:09.at the position David Cameron set out last week, it was driven by the
:52:09. > :52:15.needs of the Conservative Party, internally and the threat of UKIP.
:52:15. > :52:22.It was not a position he worked out of a matter of principle. As far as
:52:22. > :52:26.Scotland is concerned,... Can I interrupt you, I want to ask about
:52:26. > :52:31.which position you are talking about that Mr Miliband takes. Isn't
:52:31. > :52:38.it one that he does not want a referendum -- is it one that he
:52:38. > :52:47.wants a referendum, or does he not need a referendum if powers are
:52:48. > :52:51.going back to Brussels? I do not speak for the Labour Party any more,
:52:51. > :53:01.but I have nothing to fear of referendums. If you are going to
:53:01. > :53:18.
:53:18. > :53:23.There is a lot of uncertainty. We will not have this referendum for a
:53:23. > :53:29.few years. I said before, I thought a two year delay for the referendum
:53:29. > :53:34.will create uncertainty, and the four years uncertainty aggravates
:53:34. > :53:40.the position regarding the EU fault. The sound went down while Fiona was
:53:40. > :53:44.speaking, but in relation to Scotland and Europe, Nicola
:53:44. > :53:50.Sturgeon wrote a letter to other European governments in which she
:53:50. > :53:57.set out the virtues of the European Union, the fact we are closer trade
:53:57. > :54:01.and co-operation, and I agree with most of that. However, if it is
:54:01. > :54:07.right for Europe because it is a big single market, it must be right
:54:07. > :54:10.in bucketloads so far as the rest of the UK is concerned, we sell
:54:10. > :54:14.four times as much to England as we do to Europe. The logic must be
:54:15. > :54:19.that Scottish is better and stronger together in the United
:54:19. > :54:27.Kingdom, as I believe the United Kingdom is better and stronger
:54:27. > :54:31.together as part of the European What do your think your position
:54:31. > :54:36.would be, particularly if the UK has to renegotiate substantially
:54:36. > :54:41.with Brussels if there is a closer fiscal union? I don't speak to the
:54:41. > :54:47.Labour Party. I am not drawing up the manifesto for 2015 or any other
:54:47. > :54:51.time. My view is this; by 2015, just under two years' time, it will
:54:51. > :54:56.be clearer what the position is, with regards to the eurozone and
:54:56. > :55:03.whether or not that means the fundamental treaties need to be
:55:03. > :55:06.looked at again. If the UK is going to seek a better deal or the
:55:06. > :55:12.repatriation of powers, you is to understand, so will other countries
:55:12. > :55:18.want to do the same thing. The other thing is you have to build
:55:18. > :55:25.alliances with the non-Euro- countries. Holding a gun to
:55:25. > :55:29.people's heads does not make sense. Looking at better together new you
:55:29. > :55:33.are split over a key issue when you are meant to be campaigning
:55:33. > :55:36.together. We are not. Our campaign was set up to convince people that
:55:36. > :55:41.Scotland is better and stronger together within the United Kingdom.
:55:41. > :55:45.Nothing has changed as a result of last week. We are all agreed that
:55:45. > :55:51.Scotland would have to renegotiate terms within Europe. You just heard
:55:51. > :55:55.the Irish minister say that at some length, so has everyone else.
:55:55. > :56:00.There's going to be uncertainty there. I have never argued that the
:56:00. > :56:07.rest of Europe would not want us in, but the terms and conditions,
:56:07. > :56:10.whether on the euro, the passport controls - there would have to be a
:56:10. > :56:13.negotiation. Now nothing that David Cameron said last week has changed
:56:13. > :56:17.that one jot and the nationalists are in that position. This is only
:56:17. > :56:23.a year ago they were arguing they had a legal opinion which said the
:56:23. > :56:27.opposite. It turned out to be a complete fiction. Their credibility
:56:27. > :56:31.on that is pretty near nil. Yes, Europe is important. If they are
:56:31. > :56:34.right about staying in Europe, they must be right about staying in the
:56:34. > :56:38.single market we are already in, which is called the United Kingdom.
:56:38. > :56:43.I want to ask you about the economy, as a former Chancellor. In your
:56:43. > :56:47.opinion, are we approaching a triple dip recession? There is now
:56:47. > :56:53.a risk that will happen. The economy was growing in 2010, and
:56:53. > :56:58.this Government killed that off and they did it by trashing people's
:56:58. > :57:04.confidence with comparisons about what is going on in Europe. They
:57:04. > :57:08.embarked on a policy of austerity. The policy has failed. It's not
:57:08. > :57:12.going anywhere. We will pay a very, very heavy price for it. It is time
:57:13. > :57:17.they started thinking closely about what they are doing. If we carry on
:57:17. > :57:20.like this we could have a lost generation, as we had in Japan,
:57:20. > :57:24.where people will be denied opportunities and have lower
:57:24. > :57:29.standards of living. That is intolerable.
:57:29. > :57:33.Thank you very much for joining us. Turning to coalition partners at
:57:33. > :57:38.Westminster, we have Rory Stewart t Conservative MP for Penrith and the
:57:38. > :57:43.Borders, who sits in the Foreign Affairs Select Committee. In our
:57:43. > :57:47.Aberdeen studio is Sir Malcolm Bruce, the former leader of the
:57:47. > :57:52.Scottish Liberal Democrats. Good afternoon to you both. First to you,
:57:52. > :57:56.Rory Stewart, we are hearing about the EU, in-out referendum there.
:57:56. > :58:01.Where do you stand on it? Like David Cameron I believe the current
:58:01. > :58:05.situation is not acceptable. We have to push for a new relationship
:58:05. > :58:09.with Europe. Otherwise Britain will be in an isolated Uncomfortable
:58:09. > :58:14.situation. If we cannot get that, I believe we should vote to leave. It
:58:14. > :58:18.is not up to me. It is not up to David Cameron. It is up to the
:58:18. > :58:22.British people. Sir Malcolm, you are listening to that. How on earth
:58:22. > :58:27.can you remain in this coalition when it is so divided over such a
:58:27. > :58:29.key point? Nick Clegg was saying this referendum is not in the
:58:29. > :58:32.national interest. How can you remain in the coalition?
:58:32. > :58:36.Conservative Party are talking about what they would do if they
:58:36. > :58:41.were to win the next election, which they are increasingly unable
:58:42. > :58:45.to do. There'll be nothing more isolating for Britain than to be
:58:45. > :58:48.outside the United Kingdom, outside the European Union. I am a former
:58:48. > :58:52.reformer of the European Union. There is a lot we should and can do.
:58:52. > :58:57.The idea of demanding it and then if we don't get it leaving, puts us
:58:57. > :59:01.in a weaker position than we would otherwise be. I think the problem
:59:01. > :59:05.for David Cameron is that he's really addressing his own party
:59:05. > :59:08.rather than the interests of the country. It's not consistent, in my
:59:08. > :59:12.view, to be passionately in favour of keeping the United Kingdom
:59:12. > :59:14.together and arguing that Scotland should stay in the United Kingdom,
:59:14. > :59:21.whilst arguing that Britain should leave the European Union. The
:59:21. > :59:28.argument is the same in both cases. Rory Stewart, from your Lib Dem
:59:28. > :59:31.colleague there, putting party interests there. He is a
:59:31. > :59:36.distinguished man drawing the comparison. The United Kingdom is a
:59:36. > :59:39.country with strong historical connections between what was
:59:39. > :59:43.originally the kingdom of Scotland and England. The European Union is
:59:43. > :59:46.not a country. It is a block with any number of different languages
:59:46. > :59:50.and cultures within it. It is daft to say the United Kingdom is the
:59:50. > :59:57.same as the European Union and the issues which affect one are the
:59:57. > :00:00.same as those which affect the other. If you pick up on that point.
:00:00. > :00:03.We have a single market in the United Kingdom. We have a single
:00:03. > :00:07.market in the European Union, which abgtkhully Britain did much to help
:00:07. > :00:11.to -- actually Britain did much to help to shape. Just as I argue it
:00:11. > :00:14.is the UK and Scotland's interest to stay together because they have
:00:14. > :00:18.so much in common and a common open market, what we have developed in
:00:18. > :00:24.Europe is a similar open market and one that Britain needs to be part
:00:24. > :00:29.of. There is a real dainger in the -- dainger in the course that the
:00:29. > :00:33.Prime Minister has set, he has indicated that, but then found his
:00:33. > :00:36.party does not support him and possibly the country does not
:00:36. > :00:40.support him, without a clear indication of where we finish up if
:00:40. > :00:44.we are outside Europe. There is no other organisation we can usefully
:00:44. > :00:48.join. We are just left on the margins. We are talking there also
:00:48. > :00:54.with Alistair Darling there and the Better Together Campaign. What the
:00:54. > :00:59.Prime Minister is proposing has blown together - the campaign, on
:00:59. > :01:04.two issues, causing uncertainty and criticising nationalists for
:01:04. > :01:06.waiting a long time for this referendum. This one will not come
:01:06. > :01:11.until 2017. I believe you will see the Labour Party position move
:01:11. > :01:15.quickly. You can see it moving already. It is difficult. We found
:01:15. > :01:18.the same in Scotland and we will with the European Union. It is
:01:18. > :01:22.difficult to fight against a referendum N the end this is about
:01:22. > :01:28.the people. It is about what kind of country you want to live in and
:01:28. > :01:31.giving people a choice over their sovereignty. Alistair Darling will
:01:31. > :01:37.find himself isolated within the Labour Party, increasingly. It is
:01:37. > :01:40.difficult to say people should not be given a say. Nick Clegg wanted a
:01:40. > :01:46.referendum before the 2010 referendum, but now he does not
:01:46. > :01:51.want one and the treaty will be renegotiated. Probably we do need a
:01:51. > :01:54.referendum. Thafrpblgt is why we have introduce -- That is why we
:01:54. > :01:59.have introduced that for the circumstances for a referendum. If
:01:59. > :02:02.there is a transfer of power there should be a referendum F there is a
:02:02. > :02:07.referendum we will campaign and campaign for Britain to stay in. I
:02:07. > :02:12.have to say, if you look at it from the European perspective, they've
:02:12. > :02:16.had this declaration from David Cameron and they have had e-mails...
:02:16. > :02:19.Sorry, we have to leave it there. We are running out of time at the
:02:19. > :02:24.moment. Thank you very much for joining me.
:02:24. > :02:28.We are coming up to the news now. Here on Sunday Politics Scotland we
:02:28. > :02:38.will talk about mental illness after the latest update from the
:02:38. > :02:50.
:02:50. > :02:55.In a moment we will look ahead to the big stories. A fire in a
:02:55. > :03:05.nightclub in Brazil has claimed 245 lives. It is thought the blaze
:03:05. > :03:14.
:03:14. > :03:23.broke out in the packed club in the Santa Maria. The fire, officials
:03:23. > :03:28.say, spread within seconds. The result of a stage show gone wrong.
:03:28. > :03:33.Dozens of youngster rushed to escape. The first started, as we
:03:33. > :03:36.know, from some sort of firework display, even before the
:03:36. > :03:44.firefighters were there, people were helping, trying to make holes
:03:44. > :03:47.in the wall of this nightclub to help people get out. Santa Maria
:03:47. > :03:52.has a large student population. It is thought a party with 500 people
:03:52. > :03:56.was being held last night. The scale of this disaster has left
:03:56. > :04:00.Brazil stunned. Investigations are underway to discover the exact
:04:00. > :04:02.cause of the fire and how come so many came to die.
:04:02. > :04:06.The Deputy Prime Minister, Nick Clegg, says a referendum on member
:04:06. > :04:10.of the European Union is not in the national interest. Mr Clegg says
:04:10. > :04:15.David Cameron is risking growth and jobs by tying the country in knots
:04:15. > :04:19.in what he calls an arcane debate about the terms of Britain's
:04:19. > :04:24.membership. My priority will always remain a simple objective of
:04:24. > :04:28.building a stronger economy in a fairer society. That job is made
:04:28. > :04:33.more difficult if you have years and years tying yourself up in
:04:33. > :04:37.knots. Having debates about the terms of the membership of the
:04:37. > :04:43.United Kingdom before we get to a referendum. Tens of thousands of
:04:43. > :04:48.people are attending the funerals of 29 people killed in violence in
:04:48. > :04:52.Egypt yesterday, following a verdict in the football riots case.
:04:52. > :04:57.Clashes broke out between some mourners and the security forces.
:04:57. > :05:03.Yesterday's violence started after 21 people were sentenced to death
:05:03. > :05:11.for their part in rioting last year. French-led forces in Mali are
:05:11. > :05:17.closing in on Timbuktu. Malian and French forces seized
:05:17. > :05:22.another city in the north of the country yesterday.
:05:23. > :05:32.Andy Murray has failed to win his second Grand Slam tit until a row,
:05:32. > :05:37.losing to Novak Djokovic -- Grand Slam title in a row, lose -- losing
:05:37. > :05:42.to Novak Djokovic. Murray struggled with a hamstring injury and
:05:42. > :05:48.blistered feet. That is all the news now. More here on BBC One at
:05:49. > :05:52.6pm. Good afternoon. As you have just
:05:52. > :05:57.seen, disappointment for Andy Murray in Melbourne N a gruelling
:05:57. > :06:04.match lasting three hours and 40 minutes Novak Djokovic powered his
:06:04. > :06:08.way to win 3-1. Murray thanked his team and praised his opponent.
:06:08. > :06:15.would like to thank Djokovic. His record here is incredible. Very few
:06:15. > :06:20.people have managed to to what he's done here. She a very well-deserved
:06:20. > :06:26.champion. Well done again. Scotland star Leigh Griffiths is
:06:27. > :06:31.reported to have been arrested on suspicion of shoplifting.
:06:31. > :06:35.He was detained in an Edinburgh store yesterday. He said it was a
:06:35. > :06:38.big misunderstanding. An aid worker murdered in Pakistan last year is
:06:38. > :06:42.the winner of the Robert Burns Humanitarian Award.
:06:42. > :06:45.Khalil Dale, a former Dumfries nurse spent 30 years with the
:06:45. > :06:49.British Red Cross, helping vulnerable people in some of the
:06:49. > :06:53.most dangerous places in the world. A year ago he was abducted in
:06:53. > :06:56.Pakistan. His body was found three months later. Now the weather
:06:56. > :07:00.forecast. Good afternoon to you. We are in
:07:00. > :07:04.for a mixed afternoon as far as the for a mixed afternoon as far as the
:07:04. > :07:08.weather is concerned. We will continue to see blustery showers
:07:08. > :07:14.piling into western parts of the country, falling as snow on the
:07:14. > :07:19.hills. We should see some brighter interludes. Further east it remains
:07:19. > :07:23.largely dry with decent spells of brightness and sunshine. A fresh
:07:23. > :07:26.south-westerly wind for many parts of the country this afternoon. Gale
:07:26. > :07:33.force for the Western Isles at time and feeling milder than of late.
:07:33. > :07:37.That is all for now. Back to you. Thank you very much. MSPs were told
:07:37. > :07:39.this week that mental illness is one of the top public health
:07:39. > :07:48.one of the top public health challenges in Europe.
:07:48. > :07:57.The strategy started last year. One charity estimates the social and
:07:57. > :08:00.economic costs of mental illness are �11 million per year. One in
:08:00. > :08:05.four people in Scotland will experience a mental health problem
:08:05. > :08:09.every year. That can range from excessive stress, anxiety and
:08:09. > :08:16.depression, to schizophrenia and bipolar disorders. Although numbers
:08:16. > :08:26.have decreased over the past decade n2011, 772 people died by suicide
:08:26. > :08:27.
:08:27. > :08:30.in Scotland. That is around two people per day. 10% of 5-15-year-
:08:30. > :08:35.olds suffer mental health problems when they are growing up. As Linda
:08:35. > :08:40.Fabiani pointed out during the debate, mental health illness has a
:08:40. > :08:47.big impact on someone's self-esteem. When you look at stigma and what
:08:47. > :08:53.goes along with it - the bullying, the humiliation - whether it's
:08:53. > :08:59.depression, bipolar, schizophrenia, whatever, whether it is a one-off,
:08:59. > :09:06.period oddic, these are the effects, marginallisation, that does
:09:06. > :09:16.terrible things to people. With me in the studio is Billy Watson t --
:09:16. > :09:29.
:09:29. > :09:36.This is a huge issue in Scotland, and we do have a good legislator
:09:36. > :09:41.unsocial policy legacy in Scotland. The 2000 and the Mental Health Act
:09:41. > :09:44.is admired internationally. We now have a new Scottish strategy for
:09:44. > :09:49.mental health. We are at a moment in time where we can move forward
:09:49. > :09:54.on the issue, and I think the challenge for the Scottish
:09:54. > :09:58.government is to take this policy and strategy and translated and
:09:58. > :10:07.transact it into real meaningful services on the ground. --
:10:07. > :10:11.translator it. By December 2014, there is a target to wait no more
:10:11. > :10:17.than 18 weeks for treatment. What is the situation at the moment?
:10:17. > :10:21.is not great. It's still concerns organisations like ours that it has
:10:21. > :10:26.taken this sort of time to get a guaranteed to access to what is a
:10:26. > :10:31.vital treatment. We have had it and physical health for a long time,
:10:31. > :10:35.and it is two years away. But still feels like we have ground to make
:10:35. > :10:39.up. Audit Scotland did a report that showed support for
:10:39. > :10:43.psychological therapies depending on where you are in Scotland can
:10:43. > :10:49.take several years. We will be interested to see how the Scottish
:10:49. > :10:53.government gets from here to there in two years. The suicide
:10:54. > :10:59.statistics a minute ago were frightening. What more can be done
:10:59. > :11:05.at a community level to try to tackle it? The Community point was
:11:05. > :11:10.vital. Scotland has done some great work, suicide rates have come down.
:11:10. > :11:15.But two people a day is two too many. There are two things that can
:11:15. > :11:20.be done. More crisis intervention. Unfortunately when someone is in
:11:20. > :11:28.crisis, there is a run -- revolving door between accident and emergency,
:11:28. > :11:31.the police, and organisations like ours. The community response also
:11:31. > :11:35.needs to be better. People need to be able to speak to people in the
:11:35. > :11:41.same situation, supporting family members who are having suicidal
:11:41. > :11:44.thoughts. It is still one of the most difficult things to talk about.
:11:44. > :11:48.We have to leave it there, thank you very much.
:11:48. > :11:58.In a moment we will discuss the big events coming up next week, but
:11:58. > :12:02.
:12:03. > :12:05.first, let us take a look back at This week the Scottish Government's
:12:05. > :12:14.281 �6 billion budget for the year ahead was approved in principle by
:12:14. > :12:17.Parliament. I believe the Budget provides a
:12:17. > :12:23.bold and ambitious programme of investment in people and
:12:23. > :12:27.infrastructure. Westminster MPs voted in favour of a proposal to
:12:27. > :12:32.lower the voting age in UK elections from 18-16. But the
:12:32. > :12:36.result is not binding, and the Conservatives are opposed to the
:12:36. > :12:42.moves. Unemployment in Scotland fell again.
:12:42. > :12:46.It fell by 14,000, bringing down the total number of people who are
:12:46. > :12:54.jobless to 207,000. It is time for a crackdown on people who abuse the
:12:54. > :13:00.use of disabled parking badges. The SNP MSP launched a bill aimed at
:13:00. > :13:04.giving officials greater powers to confiscate permits not be being
:13:04. > :13:14.used properly. Let us take a look forward to the
:13:14. > :13:19.next a than days. This week we have a splendid double
:13:19. > :13:23.act joining us in the Edinburgh studio. We have Iain Macwhirter,
:13:24. > :13:28.and in the studio we have Paul Gilbride from the Daily Express.
:13:28. > :13:37.Thank you for joining us. Thank you for hanging on after a Andy Murray.
:13:37. > :13:40.Let us look at one issue in their Sunday Herald. Nicola Sturgeon is
:13:40. > :13:45.writing to the EU foreign ministers brandishing her pro-European
:13:45. > :13:51.credentials, and we hear her talking about Lucinda Crichton as
:13:51. > :13:56.well. Yes, this whole debate about whether or not Scotland will be
:13:56. > :13:59.thrown out of Europe and would have to renegotiate away in is now
:13:59. > :14:04.completely irrelevant because it is abundantly clear that of Scotland
:14:04. > :14:10.votes to remain in the UK, we are just as likely to find ourselves
:14:10. > :14:20.thrown out of the EU as a result of forts taken by Conservatives in the
:14:20. > :14:21.
:14:21. > :14:24.south of England, decisions taken by Westminster. Paul Gilbride, it
:14:24. > :14:29.was interesting what Fiona Hyslop was saying about Lucinda Crichton.
:14:29. > :14:34.She was anxious to make sure that nothing from Ireland said it would
:14:34. > :14:38.be a problem with Scotland applying or reapplying. The argument has
:14:38. > :14:41.moved on, I do not think there is any issue that an independent
:14:41. > :14:51.Scotland would be welcomed with open arms to Europe. The issue now
:14:51. > :14:57.is would it have to reapply? After what was said last week, sorry,
:14:57. > :15:02.before Christmas, Scotland would be an independent state. You're
:15:02. > :15:05.shaking your head. Let us pick up on match. Quite clearly we are just
:15:06. > :15:12.as likely to find ourselves out of Europe if Scotland remains within
:15:12. > :15:17.the UK as if Scotland were to become independent. Scotland has
:15:17. > :15:24.been under the protection of EU law for the last 20 years, and it would
:15:24. > :15:31.be unique. There is no mechanism in the EU for throwing people out to
:15:31. > :15:35.have been subject to the European law. It is redundant now. Let us
:15:35. > :15:41.put upon the point for the pro Unionist parties. Mr Cameron's
:15:41. > :15:47.statement on Wednesday threw them into disarray. Yes, but Labour will
:15:47. > :15:51.come round. They have to state a position before we get into the
:15:51. > :15:55.campaign for a referendum. The Better Together Campaign is not
:15:55. > :16:01.about whether we stay in Europe, it is about whether Scotland stays in
:16:01. > :16:08.the UK. It has a different campaign, a different argument. In the Sunday
:16:08. > :16:13.Herald, the yes campaign boss says there is no need to battle over the
:16:13. > :16:21.referendum question. Could there be a battle over the referendum
:16:21. > :16:23.question? There will be an argument on it. I do not know if the
:16:23. > :16:27.electoral commission will come up to any radical proposals to change
:16:27. > :16:31.in it, but there will be some suggestions for the wording changed.
:16:31. > :16:36.Blair Jenkins has suggested they have the final decision on this,
:16:36. > :16:40.and under section 30, it is clear they do not. The decision will be
:16:40. > :16:42.taken by the Scottish parliament. I think it would be almost
:16:42. > :16:50.inconceivable if the Scottish parliament would reject a
:16:50. > :16:57.reasonable proposal made. Blair Jenkins was saying that we should
:16:57. > :17:02.just accept what they say. I agree. The electoral commission is seen as
:17:02. > :17:08.impartial, independent, and a Scottish parliament can start
:17:08. > :17:11.arguing with their recommendations can do more damage than good. The
:17:11. > :17:20.question, do you agree Scotland should become an independent
:17:20. > :17:28.country, people have argued that is loaded, do you agree. We should get
:17:28. > :17:32.a question, should Scotland become independent? Something like that.
:17:32. > :17:36.The big issue will be the funding. Yes, there will be an argument over
:17:36. > :17:42.that as well because the yes campaign are fairly keen to keep a
:17:42. > :17:49.lid on the funding abyss. They are uneasy at the prospect of being up
:17:49. > :17:53.against all the Unionist parties. Also, there has been a backwash of
:17:53. > :17:57.debates taking place out of the border, and they want to keep tight
:17:57. > :18:03.control on it. There will be a relaxation of that. Do you think
:18:03. > :18:07.there will be a big fight over it? I think there could be. The funding
:18:08. > :18:14.from south of the border could flood in. That would be an unfair
:18:14. > :18:20.advantage for the pro-union campaign. Paul Gilbride and Iain
:18:20. > :18:25.Macwhirter, thank you for joining us. We are on a bit later than
:18:25. > :18:28.normal to a thank you for staying That is all from us this week. Just
:18:28. > :18:33.a reminder about a Newsnight Scotland special programme coming
:18:33. > :18:36.up tomorrow. An audience representing Scotland's ethnic
:18:36. > :18:42.minority communities will question leading politicians about issues