:00:44. > :00:48.Sunday Politics. The government is going to court to prevent a new EU
:00:48. > :00:53.tax hitting the centre of London as more pressure is piled on the Prime
:00:53. > :00:57.Minister to deliver his pledge to bring back powers from Brussels.
:00:57. > :01:01.He wants to be in the centre ground of British politics but claims the
:01:01. > :01:06.centre is moving left, so how will Ed Miliband's strategy go down in
:01:06. > :01:12.next month was, local elections? The shadow communities secretary joins
:01:12. > :01:17.us for the Sunday interview. It's claimed a estimated 70,000
:01:17. > :01:20.lives so two years into the Civil War, is it time to arm the rebels?
:01:20. > :01:25.And in Scotland, with less than a year and a half to go to the
:01:25. > :01:35.referendum, a critical conference for Labour as it chews over its
:01:35. > :01:35.
:01:35. > :29:57.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1702 seconds
:29:57. > :30:02.tragedy going on right now in Syria. More people have been killed
:30:02. > :30:07.in recent months than in the first year of the conflict. We want to see
:30:07. > :30:17.a managed transition in Syria, but there is no sign of that happening.
:30:17. > :30:22.
:30:22. > :30:25.We have to change the terms of trade We have to change the terms of trade
:30:25. > :30:34.on the ground. It started with a peaceful demonstration in the street
:30:34. > :30:44.peaceful demonstration in the street It moved on and now we are involved
:30:44. > :30:51.
:30:51. > :30:59.in more Islamists. They have given support. This creates a division.
:30:59. > :31:03.Are you worried about giving them guns? Of course, they have been
:31:04. > :31:10.planning to gain sympathy and support from the Syrian people,
:31:10. > :31:15.because they appeared a few months ago and they are giving up to al-
:31:15. > :31:25.Qaeda. You will end up giving guns to the bad guys. Not necessarily.
:31:25. > :31:34.
:31:34. > :31:39.fighting on the ground, the people with more arms are the Islamists.
:31:39. > :31:43.They are going to win if we do nothing. What we need to do is to
:31:43. > :31:50.get the moderate, secular side to have forced to actually
:31:50. > :31:53.counterbalance that. You think, in sending arms to the opposition, you
:31:53. > :32:01.could actually distinguish as to who is going to get the guns?
:32:01. > :32:06.Absolutely. You cannot do that. It is not practical on the ground. You
:32:06. > :32:10.would create isolation between the rebels, because the bad guys think
:32:10. > :32:16.of themselves as the good guys, who are liberating Syria from the
:32:16. > :32:21.dictatorship. By arming the rebels in Syria, you are creating a
:32:21. > :32:28.revolution, a kind of battle between the Islamists and between the Syrian
:32:28. > :32:34.free army. We have three poll is of the conflict, and political solution
:32:34. > :32:41.is the only way to move forward. do we get that? Through pressure on
:32:41. > :32:49.Assad. Not through the pressure of Russia and Iran. Assad is not the
:32:49. > :32:55.supermassive power in Syria. cannot get Russia to do any
:32:55. > :33:01.pressuring. They are bolstering the Iranians. It will end up with
:33:01. > :33:09.terrorism in Syria. Even if Al-Qaeda has lost its war with America, it
:33:09. > :33:12.can regain in Syria. You say 70,000 people have died there, and that is
:33:12. > :33:21.probably a reasonably accurate estimate. If you give these people
:33:21. > :33:27.guns, and more than guns, a lot more will die. They've got guns already.
:33:27. > :33:31.Syria is awash with small arms already. The problem is we cannot
:33:31. > :33:36.force Assad to a political transition. Nobody wants to see a
:33:36. > :33:41.violent overthrow, but it is happening in slow motion right now,
:33:41. > :33:45.because he has enough power to hang on without being forced to the
:33:45. > :33:49.negotiation table. We have to bring the moderate and secular forces
:33:49. > :33:54.there, because that is the only guarantee you can get pressure on
:33:54. > :33:59.Russia, Iran and Hezbollah to change their mind. He says you have to do
:34:00. > :34:06.it to break the logjam on the ground. But that is not through
:34:06. > :34:12.getting more debt in Syria. Syria can use chemical weapons in order to
:34:12. > :34:22.gain power right now. It knows it will get the full power of the
:34:22. > :34:23.
:34:23. > :34:27.United States if it did that. solution is to pressure Iran and
:34:27. > :34:36.Russia and Hezbollah. We need to pressure more, more pressure from
:34:36. > :34:41.the superpowers like America, Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar. The
:34:41. > :34:47.situation could escalate more, to have a more regional war in Syria,
:34:47. > :34:52.where we have vulnerable borders, which can leak to Jordan, Israel and
:34:52. > :34:58.Lebanon. Then we have an international war in the region.
:34:58. > :35:06.Syria is a tribal mosaic. It is a hotchpotch of tribes that we
:35:06. > :35:11.understand almost none of. What has it got to do with us? Plenty --
:35:11. > :35:17.plenty. Firstly, there is a challenge to values going on. Tens
:35:17. > :35:24.of thousands of people are dying, and that speaks to our values.
:35:24. > :35:30.you are talking about hard power. Those are national security
:35:30. > :35:34.situations of a classic kind. Now we have moral interests and strategic
:35:35. > :35:40.interests too. We are seeing refugees streaming over,
:35:40. > :35:45.destabilising Jordan, Iraq and Lebanon. It is in our interests to
:35:45. > :35:55.stop that happening. Thank you both. You are watching the Sunday
:35:55. > :36:03.
:36:03. > :36:07.conference for Labour in Inverness as the party mulls over what it
:36:07. > :36:09.might offer in the event of a no vote.
:36:09. > :36:14.I'll be speaking live with Anas Sarwar, the Scottish Labour Party
:36:14. > :36:18.deputy leader. Parents in rural areas want to keep
:36:19. > :36:24.their local schools open, of course, but it's a difficult balance for
:36:24. > :36:26.cash-strapped councils. We'll debate the way forward. And that's the UK
:36:26. > :36:32.Treasury raises doubts about an independent Scotland keeping the
:36:32. > :36:42.pound, the SNP hip back, saying it in the best interests of Scotland to
:36:42. > :36:45.
:36:45. > :36:48.stay in stolen -- sterling will stop Scottish Labour have been trying to
:36:48. > :36:52.refresh and regroup. They say they have to be honest
:36:52. > :36:57.about the hard choices. One of those hard choices is deciding what to
:36:57. > :36:59.offer in the event of a no vote in the referendum. Our political
:36:59. > :37:05.correspondent Raymond Buchanan has been taking the air in the far
:37:05. > :37:10.north. The glorious Highlands - home to
:37:10. > :37:15.some of Europe's great wilderness. A place to contemplate, to consider,
:37:15. > :37:21.to renew. An appropriate location for the modern Labour Party to
:37:21. > :37:25.choose for their conference. Swept out of office by the voters in
:37:25. > :37:28.Westminster and Holyrood, they have much to ponder. Some of the
:37:28. > :37:32.questions the party has to ask itself are really quite deep. How
:37:32. > :37:37.should they deal with the deficit? What public services should Labour
:37:37. > :37:43.supporting future? What is the party's attitude to welfare reform,
:37:43. > :37:47.immigration and the Constitution? These are potentially treacherous
:37:47. > :37:53.areas to navigate but that is the task of Ed Miliband and JoAnn
:37:53. > :37:57.laminate. The UK leader arrived in the capital with an old Tory idea.
:37:57. > :38:05.He wants Labour to be the one nation movement, uniting communities from
:38:05. > :38:10.Shetland to Southampton. We have something none of the other parties
:38:10. > :38:15.have - the power of the people joining together. Let's leave the
:38:15. > :38:23.Tories to divide our society. unity can be a difficult thing to
:38:23. > :38:25.achieve if one party, let alone one nation, doesn't agree. The Scottish
:38:25. > :38:35.leadership plan to give Holyrood control of all tax hasn't been
:38:35. > :38:38.unanimously praised. On the subject of MPs, I would say to those unnamed
:38:38. > :38:46.comrade suspecting their dummies out this week, " get over it and engage
:38:46. > :38:49.in the party consultation". That's certainly not the phrasing I would
:38:49. > :38:54.use. There has been a great deal of anxiety about the way this has been
:38:54. > :38:57.handled. The first I heard was when I read it in the paper. There are
:38:57. > :39:04.three MPs on the group but they went reporting back so nobody knew what
:39:04. > :39:08.was being discussed. When Johann Lamont took to the stage, she
:39:08. > :39:14.challenged Alex Salmond to work with her to improve childcare and be more
:39:14. > :39:18.open about the economic challenges Scotland's public services face.
:39:18. > :39:22.is time politicians were honest with the public about hard choices. We
:39:22. > :39:27.can't afford a cartoon debate when older people are being tucked up in
:39:27. > :39:35.bed by 6pm because it fits in a carer's pressure to schedule because
:39:35. > :39:39.of pressure budgets. But she didn't set out what hard choices she would
:39:39. > :39:43.make. But she did set out the choices she believes faces people in
:39:43. > :39:48.this country. Alex Salmond would have you believe the enemy is our
:39:48. > :39:51.neighbours. He wants to have a debate with David Cameron but he
:39:51. > :39:57.won't debate me and that's because he wants to deceive people into
:39:57. > :40:01.thinking this is a question of Scotland versus England. It isn't.
:40:01. > :40:11.The fight is Scotland versus Alex Salmond and it is one that Scotland
:40:11. > :40:15.
:40:15. > :40:22.themselves as the party of the many and the SNP as the party of the few.
:40:22. > :40:25.In the end, Scotland will decide which direction it prefers. And also
:40:25. > :40:28.how long Labour's wildernesses continue.
:40:28. > :40:32.Joining me live from the Scottish Labour conference in Inverness is
:40:32. > :40:37.the deputy leader of the party Anas Sarwar. Good afternoon and thank you
:40:37. > :40:42.for joining me. At the launch of the report on the evolution report,
:40:42. > :40:47.there was controversy. There is a recommendation to devolve income
:40:47. > :40:52.tax. Has that been thought through adequately? We are hearing those
:40:52. > :40:56.concerns from MPs. I wouldn't frame it in the way you have done. What
:40:56. > :40:59.we're doing is having a genuine discussion and debate to say that we
:40:59. > :41:05.recognise we need to get a devolution model that works best for
:41:05. > :41:13.Scotland so we can create the kind of society we want to live in are up
:41:13. > :41:20.our children. -- and bring up our children. This needs to be a wider
:41:20. > :41:23.debate right across Scotland. We will base our final conclusions on
:41:23. > :41:27.those constitution responses and make sure we act not in the Labour
:41:27. > :41:30.Party's interests but in the interests of Scotland. But raising
:41:31. > :41:39.income tax purely in Scotland - MPs are concerned that could put
:41:39. > :41:41.Scotland at risk financially. said there is a strong case around
:41:41. > :41:44.the accountability argument about having income tax Scottish
:41:44. > :41:48.parliament but there are still questions that need to be answered.
:41:48. > :41:53.One thing we are not going to do is create a system that undermined
:41:53. > :41:55.Scotland's position. We don't want to make Scotland who are. That is
:41:55. > :41:59.why we are going to test all the arguments to make sure we have a
:41:59. > :42:04.devolution model that is in the best interests of Scotland. It's an open,
:42:04. > :42:08.frank discussion and debate. It's not just inside the Labour Party but
:42:08. > :42:12.with Scotland. We could have the approach of the opposition who make
:42:12. > :42:16.up all the answers as they go along. That is not the approach the
:42:16. > :42:20.Labour Party is taking. We want to engage, have a genuine consultation
:42:20. > :42:24.and discussion with Scotland. Perhaps this discussion has been a
:42:24. > :42:30.bit too open and frank, as we saw earlier with the comrades spitting
:42:30. > :42:36.their dummies out. As Johann Lamont spent this weekend trying to exert
:42:36. > :42:39.her authority in the party? What she has spent this weekend doing is
:42:39. > :42:44.setting out a different case for Scotland, not just on the
:42:44. > :42:47.constitution but all the big issues. Just a few weeks ago, you have the
:42:47. > :42:52.first Minister come here with all the usual bluster, all the usual
:42:52. > :42:56.lines, but set out his own case for setting up his own legacy. Contrast
:42:56. > :43:02.that to what you had yesterday - a speech of humility, emotion and
:43:02. > :43:05.passion. Someone who is not in this for some kind of personal glory but
:43:05. > :43:08.to increase opportunities for everyone across the country. That is
:43:08. > :43:12.something we should be proud of and something the party got right
:43:12. > :43:16.behind. Some say the first Minister was setting out a vision for
:43:16. > :43:20.Scotland and some said that Johann Lamont's speech lacks vision. She
:43:20. > :43:24.spoke about her background and university education and said it was
:43:24. > :43:28.time politicians were honest with the public about hard choices. What
:43:28. > :43:32.is Labour's hard choice when it comes to higher education? She spoke
:43:32. > :43:37.about the college budget being mauled. Do you want to reintroduce
:43:37. > :43:42.tuition fees or a graduate endowment for higher education? That's not
:43:42. > :43:46.what she is saying. She is saying you can't measure the success of an
:43:46. > :43:50.individual area by just looking at one policy. We can't pretend we have
:43:50. > :43:53.perfect higher education system because we have free tuition. The
:43:53. > :43:57.fat that Scotland, despite not having to tuition fees, if you are
:43:57. > :44:04.kids in Scotland from a working-class background you are
:44:04. > :44:07.less likely to go to university than it did in England. Because of health
:44:07. > :44:11.care inequalities, a lot of people went live long enough to receive
:44:11. > :44:15.free personal care. How can we have people living longer, more
:44:15. > :44:19.fulfilling lives? How do we improve the education system to make sure
:44:19. > :44:26.that no matter where you live, whether affluent area or more
:44:26. > :44:32.deprived area, there will be a successful education system to go to
:44:32. > :44:35.university and go to college and be an asset to your community. That's
:44:35. > :44:39.the kind of society that Johann Lamont wants to create and that's
:44:39. > :44:44.what she was setting out. opposition said it was rather policy
:44:44. > :44:51.light. Nicola Sturgeon tweeted that reducing tuition fees was the
:44:51. > :44:55.closest she came to introducing a policy. She also had to revisit a
:44:55. > :44:58.controversial policy, the something for nothing speech. She said she was
:44:58. > :45:01.not attacking the principle of universal benefits but raising the
:45:02. > :45:08.point that there was not perhaps enough resources to pay for these
:45:08. > :45:11.universal benefits, so in essence wasn't she attacking the policy?
:45:11. > :45:15.think what the Cabinet Secretary for infrastructure should do is not just
:45:15. > :45:18.bend all their time building a case up for independence in the
:45:18. > :45:25.referendum next year but spent time building infrastructure, roads,
:45:25. > :45:27.schools, hospitals to help tackle the inequalities I set out. Johann
:45:27. > :45:30.Lamont is saying there are real challenges right here in Scotland
:45:30. > :45:34.and what we can't have over the next 18 months is constant conversations
:45:34. > :45:38.purely about the constitution and funding models and devolution or
:45:38. > :45:43.about independence. There are real challenges that people are facing
:45:43. > :45:47.right now. What people don't need is politicians sitting in parliament,
:45:47. > :45:52.council chambers or Right now in TV studios talking about things like
:45:52. > :45:57.the monetary policy committee and other issues - all very important
:45:57. > :46:01.but not ones that affect people's daily lives. People are worried
:46:01. > :46:05.about how they get food on their table, whether their child will get
:46:05. > :46:09.access to a college place, will get a job, how their loved one will be
:46:09. > :46:12.treated by the NHS. They are the real conversations taking place up
:46:12. > :46:17.and down this country and that's the conversation we want to have and
:46:17. > :46:21.find the right solutions. important policy is childcare which
:46:21. > :46:25.Johann Lamont mentioned but there was a scant lack of detail. She
:46:25. > :46:32.challenged Alex Salmond to return next week. She said she had worked
:46:32. > :46:36.out proposals for childcare - what are the proposals? I'm sorry,
:46:36. > :46:41.Andrew, that is the wrong reflection of what she said. What she said was
:46:41. > :46:45.that the first Minister made a promise on childcare not to actually
:46:45. > :46:48.change women's lives but to get votes for the referendum. He has the
:46:48. > :46:51.powers in the Scottish parliament right now to introduce the policy
:46:51. > :46:55.proposals that he wants and what Johann Lamont quite rightly said is
:46:55. > :47:00.that we will work with the SNP. People don't care about party
:47:00. > :47:03.politics when it comes to changing their lives so we will work with the
:47:03. > :47:06.SNP in the budget and come up with a proposal that works and we will
:47:06. > :47:12.support it and make the policy happen now. Are they big enough to
:47:12. > :47:17.take that on? Let's make sure we deliver for Scotland bow. Why wait
:47:17. > :47:21.until after the referendum? Alex Salmond has the power to do it now
:47:21. > :47:25.but he is not taking the opportunity. It's a very expensive
:47:25. > :47:29.policy, which is the point the first Minister made and it needs time to
:47:29. > :47:33.be worked out. Are you just trying to smoke out the first Minister and
:47:33. > :47:37.make him commit to a very expensive policy which would require a cut in
:47:37. > :47:43.another area of the budget? Which every would you like to see cut to
:47:44. > :47:46.pay for it? Andrew, I'm sorry. He has the power, he says it's a
:47:46. > :47:52.priority if Scotland wants an independent country. Let's not make
:47:52. > :47:56.it up as we go along. He can't promise tax systems like Ireland and
:47:56. > :48:01.public services like Scandinavia. You can't make it up as you go
:48:01. > :48:04.along, which is what the first minute and the SNP are doing. If he
:48:04. > :48:09.genuinely believes that it's in the best interests of Scotland to have a
:48:09. > :48:13.childcare system that works to help women back into work, we will help
:48:13. > :48:21.them to deliver that policy in this Parliament. Will he take that
:48:21. > :48:28.challenge? Will he join us in that? If not it proves that it's a policy
:48:28. > :48:33.to gain votes. Less than 18 months until the referendum, there is
:48:33. > :48:37.difficulty getting this policy of further devolution for Scotland -
:48:37. > :48:40.that has been mired over the course of the weekend. Johann Lamont had to
:48:40. > :48:45.explain once again the something for nothing speech. Where labour
:48:45. > :48:49.standing at the moment? I don't accept that reflection that you
:48:49. > :48:53.have. You should perhaps listen less to the SNP press machine and listen
:48:53. > :48:57.to what actually happened here at conference. I would welcome you to
:48:57. > :49:01.come to our conference next year, rather than in the studio, is what
:49:01. > :49:06.we had was a fantastic speech from Johann Lamont. We also set out what
:49:06. > :49:12.we would do if we were in charge of the NHS, setting out a 12 point plan
:49:12. > :49:21.on social justice. We had a discussion about the centralisation
:49:21. > :49:25.of Holyrood. All positive things happening right here at conference
:49:25. > :49:29.because we are on the side of Scotland and putting Scotland first.
:49:29. > :49:34.We have to leave it there. Thanks for joining us.
:49:34. > :49:37.Now to an emotive subject - ruble school closures. For two years
:49:37. > :49:40.there's been a moratorium on closing village schools while a commission
:49:40. > :49:44.investigated the future of ruble education. It is now reported but
:49:44. > :49:49.would it be enough to satisfy the concerns of campaigners or might it
:49:49. > :49:54.actually make ruble school closures easier? Here's Jamie McIvor.
:49:54. > :50:02.Any proposal to close a school can be emotive but integral areas, the
:50:02. > :50:05.passion can be even more intense. -- in rural areas. Quite apart from how
:50:05. > :50:10.proposals might affect a child's education, the school could be an
:50:10. > :50:15.important part of the team unity. Two years ago, villagers here bought
:50:15. > :50:18.a powerful campaign when their village school was facing closure.
:50:18. > :50:23.The kids keep everybody going and that brings parents here, who look
:50:23. > :50:27.after the elderly people, who work in the shops to keep the village
:50:27. > :50:32.open to the tourists that come here. Without the school we will struggle
:50:32. > :50:39.to keep and attract families to this area. The local primary was one of
:50:39. > :50:43.many local schools put under threat. At one point, around 25 were facing
:50:43. > :50:48.the axe. In the end they were saved following a move by the Scottish
:50:48. > :50:53.government. There was some concern over how the process en route will
:50:53. > :50:56.school closures was working. The government called for a moratorium
:50:56. > :51:02.on closures across Scotland while a commission on the future of roll
:51:02. > :51:08.education carried out a full investigation. It has now reported.
:51:08. > :51:18.It is a detailed report which makes several recommendations. Key amongst
:51:18. > :51:25.
:51:25. > :51:31.them... I hope that it will ensure that the education which is provided
:51:32. > :51:41.for our children in rural Scotland is of a standard which we can be
:51:42. > :51:42.
:51:42. > :51:49.proud of. But one point in the report is proving controversial. It
:51:49. > :51:59.proposes... Instead it would be simply about making sure it would
:51:59. > :52:03.not be harmed. Some fear at good make closures easier.
:52:03. > :52:07.educational statement not now having priority over everything else, it
:52:07. > :52:12.gives councils they license to make this all about numbers and there
:52:12. > :52:16.will be more regard given to the quality of education that will be
:52:16. > :52:23.lost. Others will suggest that this change will make the debate more on
:52:23. > :52:29.-- more honest, arguments are sometimes considered later than by
:52:29. > :52:34.the need to save money anyway. In his Dumbarton sure there is an
:52:34. > :52:42.intense debate about possible school closures. One rural school as at
:52:42. > :52:47.risk. I think there should be consultation and that has been
:52:47. > :52:53.brought up in this sheriff's report, we need financial transparency in
:52:53. > :52:59.the dealings that the council is having. There is no option here for
:52:59. > :53:02.us apart from closure. The council could not make a formal moves until
:53:02. > :53:08.after the commission 's report. The question here will be, what happens
:53:08. > :53:12.now? Nationally a full response from the Scottish Government is expected
:53:12. > :53:20.in the next few weeks. So what changes might happen and what will
:53:20. > :53:22.be the measure of their success? Well, with me in the studio now is
:53:22. > :53:25.COSLA spokesperson for Education, Children and Young People, the SNP
:53:25. > :53:34.Councillor Douglas Chapman, and from our Dundee studio, the Scottish
:53:34. > :53:44.Conservative's Murdo Fraser. Good afternoon. First the euro, Douglas.
:53:44. > :53:51.A full report. Let's pick up on that. It is that a semantic or
:53:51. > :53:55.significant point as raised in the report? The report covers a lot of
:53:55. > :54:00.ground and there are 30 different recommendations. We hope that we can
:54:00. > :54:06.support all or most of the recommendations. From a council 's
:54:06. > :54:09.point of view, we would always want to move ahead and ensure that
:54:09. > :54:14.children's education is protected whatever the situation, a rural or
:54:14. > :54:20.urban environment. This point for me is about, if a council decides to
:54:20. > :54:26.close a school, it has got to prove the case that it is in the child's
:54:26. > :54:30.best interest to do so. I think the point that has been made in the
:54:30. > :54:36.report is about not having to go as far as saying it has to be a
:54:36. > :54:40.benefit. As long as that position is neutral and there is no detriment to
:54:40. > :54:44.a child's education, then that is something that we can support and I
:54:44. > :54:49.think that is a good thing. Scottish Conservatives say that that
:54:49. > :54:55.could make the closing of rural skills easily, is that true? We need
:54:55. > :54:59.to go back to basics on this. There are things in there that benefit
:55:00. > :55:05.payments in terms of information that is provided and more clarity
:55:05. > :55:11.and transparency around information. I think some of the recommendations
:55:11. > :55:16.are how you look at a community in the hall. -- in the hall. Not just
:55:16. > :55:24.look at a school on its own. I think these are positive steps for how to
:55:24. > :55:29.take things forward. Are you reassured by Mr Chapmans words?
:55:29. > :55:37.There is a lot I would agree with and there is a lot that is positive
:55:37. > :55:42.in the report. I think having to provide a stronger financial case is
:55:42. > :55:47.very reasonable. We know that in the past of a very unsound financial
:55:47. > :55:52.case is put forward. But there is a fundamental problem with this that I
:55:52. > :55:57.think Douglas Chapman has skirted around. That is the shift from
:55:57. > :56:01.having to prove it is in the educational benefit of the pupils to
:56:01. > :56:06.close. In effect, lauding that far to say that all the council has to
:56:06. > :56:13.do is to sure that there would be no disadvantage. That is a fundamental
:56:13. > :56:19.shift in both the goalposts from where we are. I think we saw in the
:56:19. > :56:22.film, patents from rural skills to see that as a concern. If that was
:56:22. > :56:27.to become a change in legislation, are changing guidance, that is
:56:27. > :56:33.something that would be very vigorously posed, not just by the
:56:33. > :56:37.Scottish Conservatives but many rural schools campaigners. It does
:56:37. > :56:41.not sound like you have reassured him. I think we can work on days
:56:41. > :56:49.bets over the coming months but the important point is, you have a
:56:49. > :56:53.commission, it is reported on the recommendations that we spoke of,
:56:53. > :57:01.and the whole issue means that we need to get behind each of these
:57:01. > :57:11.recommendations and make sure there implemented. I think the discussion
:57:11. > :57:14.
:57:14. > :57:17.with the Scottish Government needs to start now. The main point, 15
:57:17. > :57:25.people sitting on the commission and they have all come to the conclusion
:57:25. > :57:29.that the standard of where the bar is set is the right one to set.
:57:29. > :57:34.Based on all the evidence, that is the view they have taken so I think
:57:35. > :57:39.we should move forward with that. very thorough report, of course, and
:57:39. > :57:47.it is a difficult balance to strike. Cash-strapped councils need to make
:57:47. > :57:51.difficult decisions. I think that is exactly the problem. Pencils do have
:57:51. > :57:58.financial issues, that is why the prospect of closing small rural
:57:58. > :58:02.schools seems so attractive. In the past we have seen a very dubious
:58:02. > :58:07.cases put forward where councils have not factored in the cost of the
:58:07. > :58:14.alternative, such as batting pupils to another centre nearby. Anything
:58:14. > :58:18.that makes it easier for councils to close rural schools is something
:58:18. > :58:23.that setting councils will seize on. That is why this is so worrying in
:58:23. > :58:26.the current financial climate and why so many parents will be worried
:58:26. > :58:31.about it. If we can agree that we will not change that particular
:58:31. > :58:37.piece of Baden's and embrace the report, I think Douglas and I can
:58:37. > :58:41.both go home happy. Thank you for joining me.
:58:41. > :58:44.Coming up after the news. As the UK Treasury prepare to launch a paper
:58:44. > :58:46.on the economics of independence, there's a warning to the SNP about
:58:46. > :58:50.keeping the pound. Ministers accuse the party of tying themselves in
:58:50. > :58:56.knots and bringing powers home with one hand, while giving them away
:58:56. > :58:59.with another. Alex Salmond has hit out at the downgrade Chancellor.
:58:59. > :59:04.We'll debate with the SNP Treasury spokesman Stewart Hosie and Sir
:59:04. > :59:09.Malcolm Bruce of the Liberal Democrats. You're watching Sunday
:59:09. > :59:19.Politics Scotland and the time is coming up for 3pm. So let's cross
:59:19. > :59:21.
:59:21. > :59:31.now for the news with Chris Eakin and Sally McNair. Thousands lined
:59:31. > :59:35.
:59:35. > :59:44.the route in response to the Boston attack. Many wore black ribbons and
:59:45. > :59:48.was tighter security. Before the start, 35,000 fell silent. Despite
:59:48. > :59:58.the weeks events, the crows immersed in their hundreds of thousands to
:59:58. > :59:59.
:59:59. > :00:07.cheer on the runners. The spirit of the day was summed up by America's
:00:07. > :00:13.winner of the wheelchair event, she won the event in Boston just hours
:00:13. > :00:16.before the bombing. She dedicated her when did people of Boston.
:00:16. > :00:23.definitely dedicate this one to Boston and I am just remembering
:00:23. > :00:31.those affected by it. Britain's David Weir only finished fifth while
:00:31. > :00:39.victories in the elite races went to Ethiopian and Kenyan athletes.
:00:39. > :00:44.Thoughts were with those across the Atlantic. The great thing about the
:00:45. > :00:49.marathon is that, no matter what colour, religion or nationality you
:00:49. > :00:57.are, everyone comes together. everyone who crosses the finish line
:00:57. > :01:01.here, the ordinator is -- the organiser is donating �2 to the
:01:01. > :01:08.Boston fund. Many runners are still out on the course but for all, it
:01:09. > :01:12.has been a day of high emotion. Police in Boston are still waiting
:01:12. > :01:16.to question the teenager who is expected -- who is suspected of
:01:16. > :01:23.carrying out the bombing. The FBI has released new energies taken with
:01:23. > :01:27.a thermal imaging camera. They show the suspect shortly before the
:01:27. > :01:31.exchange of gunfire and he remains under armed guard in hospital.
:01:31. > :01:36.More than 200 people are now known to be dead reported missing after
:01:36. > :01:40.yesterday's earthquake in China. More than 11,000 people have been
:01:40. > :01:45.injured, according to authorities. Rescue workers have been searching
:01:45. > :01:51.remote mountain villages for survivors.
:01:51. > :01:57.Celtic have been crowned Scottish Premier League champions after
:01:57. > :02:05.beating Inverness at Celtic Park. Celtic only needed a point but they
:02:05. > :02:13.ran out comfortable 4-1 winners. It is the club's 44th success. There
:02:13. > :02:23.will be more news on BBC One just after 6:30pm.
:02:23. > :02:23.
:02:23. > :02:30.Good Afternoon. Experts at Edinburgh Zoo have performed artificial
:02:30. > :02:36.insemination on the female giant panda Tian Tian. There have been
:02:36. > :02:42.positive signs. The male panda has been eating bamboo to build himself
:02:42. > :02:48.up and sniffing around the female enclosure. He has also been
:02:48. > :02:51.vocalising. Despite this, experts decided against an attempt at
:02:51. > :02:57.natural meeting and the artificial procedure was carried out. Both
:02:57. > :03:00.pandas are now slipping after what has been described as an intensive
:03:00. > :03:07.week. It will be several weeks before it is now an effort was
:03:07. > :03:10.successful but pandas will be back on display in a couple of days.
:03:10. > :03:13.Scottish Labour's Deputy Leader, Anas Sarwar, has ended his party's
:03:13. > :03:15.spring conference in Inverness by telling delegates they have a fight
:03:15. > :03:19.on their hands ahead of next year's Independence referendum. Mr Sarwar
:03:19. > :03:24.accused the SNP of making up policy as they go along in a bid to secure
:03:24. > :03:29.a yes vote in the September 2014 poll ballot. It is now very clear
:03:29. > :03:37.that they will say what you want to hear, Ron is you that independence
:03:37. > :03:43.will be at whatever you wanted to be to get a yes vote. Not for them a
:03:43. > :03:46.debate gritted in reality, but a debate based on what you want to
:03:46. > :03:49.hear to get your vote. Celebrations are continuing at Celtic Park in
:03:49. > :03:59.Glasgow after Celtic beat Inverness Caley Thistle to seal the SPL title
:03:59. > :04:15.
:04:15. > :04:20.with four matches of the season remaining.
:04:20. > :04:24.Second World War hero has been honoured at a ceremony in Edinburgh.
:04:24. > :04:28.Thomas Peck Hunter was posthumous he awarded the Victoria Cross for
:04:28. > :04:32.action in Italy in the final days of the war. He was killed by German
:04:32. > :04:36.gunfire while he tried to protect men under his command by lying in
:04:36. > :04:39.full view of the enemy until his colleagues reached safety. The
:04:40. > :04:49.service was attended by members of his family, including his nephew,
:04:50. > :04:53.
:04:53. > :04:55.Now the forecast for Scotland. This morning's reign has passed
:04:55. > :05:00.through and this afternoon it should be brightening up for most of us.
:05:00. > :05:06.There will be a number of showers around, especially across the West
:05:06. > :05:12.fairly fairly heavy. Temperatures between
:05:12. > :05:16.ten and 12 Celsius. Into the evening and overnight, showers tend to fade
:05:16. > :05:26.away and it will be dry for a time but during the overnight period, and
:05:26. > :05:27.
:05:28. > :05:32.other weather front starts to work at 6:50pm. Now back to the Sunday
:05:32. > :05:35.Politics Scotland. This week the UK government will
:05:35. > :05:40.publish its latest paper on independence. This time it's from
:05:40. > :05:43.the Treasury. The Chancellor is claiming the SNP are tying
:05:43. > :05:48.themselves in knots with plans to keep the pound if there is a yes
:05:48. > :05:51.vote. The SNP say the policy would benefit the whole UK sterling zone.
:05:51. > :05:55.If Scotland votes yes next year, the Scottish government wants to retain
:05:55. > :06:00.the pound is part of what it calls a sterling zone with the rest of the
:06:00. > :06:04.UK. But in a joint UK government article, the chancellor George
:06:04. > :06:14.Osborne and his Treasury chief secretary say the SNP are tying
:06:14. > :06:32.
:06:32. > :06:35.Friday, the leader of the Better Together campaign said it would
:06:35. > :06:39.affect the ability to spend. currency union would mean another
:06:39. > :06:44.country, which would be a foreign country, would have to approve our
:06:44. > :06:48.budget, tax, spending and borrowing. That is not freedom. If
:06:48. > :06:51.you are voted for independence, you are voting yourself into a
:06:51. > :06:55.straitjacket from which you can never escape and the consequence of
:06:55. > :06:59.that would be very bad for Scotland. But the Scottish government believes
:06:59. > :07:05.a currency union would help boost the rest of the UK's Alencon
:07:05. > :07:07.payments, thanks to its assets including oil and gas. The Deputy
:07:07. > :07:17.first Minister Nicola Sturgeon insists its the common-sense
:07:17. > :07:27.
:07:27. > :07:35.position supported by the facts. She experts on the fiscal commission
:07:35. > :07:40.working group set up by the first Minister Alex Salmond. The UK
:07:40. > :07:46.Treasury process analysis of what it would mean on Friday.
:07:46. > :07:49.I'm joined by the SNP's Treasury spokesman, Stewart Hosie, and from
:07:49. > :07:54.Aberdeen we have the Liberal Democrat MP Sir Malcolm Bruce. Good
:07:54. > :07:59.afternoon to both of you. First of all to you, Stewart Hosie, the
:07:59. > :08:02.Treasury in that article is saying you are tying yourselves in knots
:08:02. > :08:07.with this policy. They are threatening that Scots could risk
:08:07. > :08:12.losing the pound under independence. You must rue the day when the euro
:08:12. > :08:17.crisis began because this rather convoluted policy which, of course,
:08:17. > :08:20.the Treasury say doesn't really make sense. I look forward to the
:08:20. > :08:24.document being published because if it's as thin as the spun comments
:08:24. > :08:30.today, it's not going to amount to much more than a repetition of the
:08:30. > :08:34.usual scare stories that we have to join the euro, which we won't. This
:08:34. > :08:37.is dreadfully complicated, which it isn't. They say it means a foreign
:08:37. > :08:42.country will be a controlling our economy, which is completely and
:08:42. > :08:47.utterly false. I'm happy to expand on any of those. We'll put some of
:08:47. > :08:53.those points to Sir Malcolm Bruce. What is wrong with a currency zone
:08:53. > :08:59.because the SNP make it quite clear that the balance of payments would
:08:59. > :09:04.make it a benefit to the rest of the UK? They say it's just as much
:09:04. > :09:08.Scotland's pound as England's. is the point - if you want a
:09:08. > :09:13.currency union, we've got one, it's called the UK. If that's the
:09:13. > :09:18.argument, we should stay in it. What the SNP doing is creating confusion
:09:18. > :09:22.and uncertainty and begging a lot of questions because if the Bank of
:09:22. > :09:26.England is effectively underwriting the Scottish economy, there will be
:09:26. > :09:31.conditions and, indeed, other parts of the UK, the North of England,
:09:31. > :09:35.Wales and Northern Ireland, will have use. The SNP seem to think they
:09:35. > :09:39.can run a completely free budget, underwritten by a foreign bank -
:09:39. > :09:42.which it will be - and they'll be no conditions attached. When you look
:09:42. > :09:45.at what's happening in the eurozone, it's fanciful to believe
:09:45. > :09:50.such an agreement could be achieved, even if it was in
:09:50. > :09:54.anybody's interests. Stewart Hosie, we have this monetary, fiscal and
:09:54. > :09:59.political union as things stand - you want to take the political bit
:09:59. > :10:02.out of it. Does this policy really make sense? As Sir Malcolm points
:10:02. > :10:06.out, we will have to have these constraints if there is
:10:06. > :10:10.independence. You would have to reach an agreement with the Bank of
:10:10. > :10:15.England when it comes to fiscal policy. This all makes perfect
:10:15. > :10:21.sense. The Bank of England is independent. That's a good thing.
:10:21. > :10:25.Both Scotland and the rest of the UK will be subject to... Just let him
:10:25. > :10:30.finish that point. Scotland and the rest of the UK would be subject to
:10:30. > :10:35.military discipline with independent decisions made. But both Scotland
:10:35. > :10:38.and the rest of the UK would have full control of their fiscal policy.
:10:38. > :10:41.At the moment, George Osborne has control of the fiscal policy but
:10:41. > :10:46.there is very little of that in Scotland. We would have it all and I
:10:46. > :10:49.think that is a profoundly good thing. What that means in terms of a
:10:49. > :10:55.stability pact, it makes perfect sense for countries to try to make
:10:55. > :11:00.sure their deficit is reasonable and their debt begins to shrink. Those
:11:00. > :11:03.aren't constraints which any country would not want to have. Those are
:11:03. > :11:09.proper and sensible targets to be worked to buy any government and
:11:09. > :11:11.that makes sense both for Scotland and the rest of the UK. But how
:11:11. > :11:16.independent is the Bank of England when the Chancellor in the budget
:11:16. > :11:21.decided to change its remit to try to boost growth and, of course,
:11:21. > :11:30.ministers under the bank of England that of 1998 have the power to
:11:30. > :11:34.override the MPs in the military policy committee. In relation to the
:11:34. > :11:37.change from a fixed inflation target to flexible inflation targeting, I
:11:37. > :11:40.think that's extremely sensible indeed because it lays out the
:11:40. > :11:48.direction of travel for interest rates over the medium-term and
:11:48. > :11:52.provide more certainty to borrowers, banks and members of the public, to
:11:52. > :11:56.the decisions the MPC is likely to take. It's a sensible decision and
:11:56. > :12:00.I'm sure the MPC will use it properly. I think it's a good thing
:12:00. > :12:05.in terms of monetary stability and boosting growth in the long run.
:12:05. > :12:09.Stewart Hosie was speaking about the stability pact and the chair of the
:12:09. > :12:12.Scottish government's fiscal commission was writing this week
:12:13. > :12:17.saying that a mutual agreement on borrowing and debt levels would
:12:17. > :12:20.underpin a currency union and would actually be good for both economies.
:12:20. > :12:25.Yes but with the emphasis on the word mutual. It requires the whole
:12:25. > :12:29.of the UK to agree it. The way the SNP project it is that it will be
:12:29. > :12:33.the way the SNP wants it and the rest of the UK will somehow accept.
:12:33. > :12:35.That's not the real world. The Bank of England is owned by the UK
:12:35. > :12:39.government and operates under legislation passed by the UK
:12:39. > :12:43.Parliament. If Scotland was an independent country, it would have
:12:43. > :12:48.no mistake Bank of England in terms of appointment or any changes in its
:12:48. > :12:53.mandate or legal basis. It would simply have to deal with it as a
:12:53. > :12:57.foreign bank and negotiate what it could. It's fine to say we should
:12:57. > :13:01.have such a pact but both sides will have to agree and the SNP cannot
:13:01. > :13:03.tell the people of Scotland what the outcome of that agreement will be
:13:04. > :13:09.because we will not know until Scotland, if it votes for
:13:09. > :13:13.independence, negotiated. That's the real problem - we have a perfectly
:13:13. > :13:17.good currency union right now, it's called the United Kingdom and the
:13:17. > :13:20.best way to keep that is to stay in the UK. Hard for you to make your
:13:20. > :13:25.imprint on the Bank of England and, as Danny Alexander and Alistair
:13:25. > :13:31.Darling have been warning this weekend, when it comes to the bigger
:13:31. > :13:36.partner, these currency unions - look at Germany and Greece in, that
:13:36. > :13:40.bigger partner tends to have the biggest say. The German and great
:13:40. > :13:45.example is a particularly bad one. The reason for the great
:13:45. > :13:48.difficulties is not that there wasn't a political union or a tax
:13:48. > :13:52.harmonisation with Germany, it's because the productivity was so
:13:52. > :13:56.miserable. The difference between Scotland and the rest of the UK is
:13:56. > :14:01.that productivity is near identical, which means we're in an
:14:01. > :14:05.optimum currency area and that's the key point. We hear the scare stories
:14:05. > :14:07.about why the rest of the UK might say no but I look forward to
:14:07. > :14:12.Unionist politicians explain to the good people of England, Wales and
:14:12. > :14:16.Northern Ireland why they would want to damage sterling in a balance of
:14:16. > :14:20.trade terms by saying that the �40 million contribution which Scottish
:14:20. > :14:23.oil and gas brings would no longer be available at the sterling table.
:14:23. > :14:28.There are lots of scare stories and I understand why are parents want to
:14:28. > :14:32.use them but they make no sense, even for the rest of the UK. When we
:14:32. > :14:37.get to the negotiations, and of course there will be negotiations,
:14:37. > :14:40.common sense will prevail. A currency union but fiscal freedom is
:14:40. > :14:43.the ideal position for Scotland to be in and that's why independence
:14:43. > :14:48.makes so much sense. You were shaking your head about the balance
:14:48. > :14:52.of trade terms. If there's so much agreement, I can't see the need for
:14:52. > :14:56.us to break up an existing agreement. But I was shaking my head
:14:56. > :15:03.in relation to things like the oil revenues. They come and go and the
:15:03. > :15:09.fluctuation of one or 2% in terms of UK GDP is absorbable. For the
:15:09. > :15:12.Scottish economy, that could be 5% or 10% in any one given year. That
:15:12. > :15:17.could put pressure on Scotland that does not currently exist. What the
:15:17. > :15:20.SNP are proposing is to impose more uncertainty into what is a difficult
:15:20. > :15:24.and uncertain situation at a time when what we actually need is to get
:15:24. > :15:27.over our problems together, not argue about who should take the
:15:27. > :15:31.lion's share of the burden. The SNP try to attend that they are somehow
:15:31. > :15:37.fundamentally different but Stewart Hosie is saying today it won't make
:15:37. > :15:40.much difference. If it weren't, what's the point? What are the
:15:40. > :15:43.reasons for independence apart from the currency union? Crawford
:15:43. > :15:48.Beveridge writing in the Scotsman on Friday said the right way forward
:15:48. > :15:51.would be for both parties to engage in technical discussions but, of
:15:51. > :15:56.course, the UK government don't want to engage in that just now, do
:15:56. > :16:00.they? Know, and why should we? You can't debate a situation which is
:16:00. > :16:04.hypothetical. The people of Scotland have not voted and right now it
:16:04. > :16:08.looks as if they are unlikely to vote for the separation of Scotland
:16:08. > :16:11.and it's quite reasonable and proper to say that the mood, the
:16:11. > :16:15.environment, the circumstances for any kind of negotiation to
:16:15. > :16:18.hypothetical prior to a decision being made. Only when the decision
:16:18. > :16:22.has been made and is for real can you properly engage and most people
:16:23. > :16:27.are beginning to realise that that is a very unpredictable and volatile
:16:28. > :16:32.situation which we do not have to go into. Why should the UK government
:16:32. > :16:36.engage and, perhaps, why embark on this policy when the Economist Jim
:16:36. > :16:41.Cuthbert, sometimes quoted by the SNP, said that your strategy should
:16:41. > :16:44.be rethought because it could expose Scotland to a catastrophic rises?
:16:44. > :16:51.a great deal of respect for the work of Jim Cuthbert over many years and
:16:51. > :16:53.I would criticise but I think on this he is wrong. In terms of
:16:53. > :16:58.instability, the very fact that the fiscal commission suggested, very
:16:58. > :17:02.sensibly, that we have a stability fund based on the oil revenues so
:17:02. > :17:04.that we can park cash in the good times and use it in the good times
:17:04. > :17:10.is the technical answer to the scaremongering Malcolm Bruce had
:17:10. > :17:14.earlier. In terms of instability, he suggested the UK economy can absorb
:17:14. > :17:20.certain losses. The UK economy debt is about to rise to over 100% of
:17:20. > :17:27.GDP. It is in excess of �1 trillion at the moment there is no certainty
:17:27. > :17:33.in terms of UK's future. If we sort this currency thing, fiscal
:17:33. > :17:36.decisions so that we could grow the Scottish economy, will be taken in
:17:36. > :17:41.Scotland according to Scottish needs and circumstances and not in terms
:17:41. > :17:46.of the disastrous it annoyed losses of George Osborne. The future of the
:17:46. > :17:50.UK possibly at stake as well in the hands of, as the SNP budget, the
:17:50. > :17:53.downgrade Chancellor. The point we have to accept is we have a
:17:53. > :17:58.difficult few years ahead of us and this is a distraction the people of
:17:58. > :18:01.the UK, Scotland and elsewhere could do without. It would put pressure on
:18:01. > :18:05.Scotland. Never mind the oil revenues, there could be other
:18:05. > :18:10.sectors which are vulnerable which a small economy like Scotland would
:18:10. > :18:15.have difficulty absorbing. It's right to say the UK has difficulty
:18:16. > :18:20.but together, we have a better chance of overcoming our problems
:18:20. > :18:24.when we unite as one to deal with it. When the SNP at knowledge we
:18:24. > :18:27.have more in common than divides us, to tear that up right now is not the
:18:27. > :18:32.interests of Scotland or the rest of the UK. We have to leave it there.
:18:32. > :18:36.Thank you both very much. In a moment, we'll be discussing the
:18:36. > :18:44.coming week at Holyrood but let's take a look back at the week in 60
:18:44. > :18:50.seconds. Thousands of people lined the
:18:50. > :18:53.streets of London for the funeral of Baroness Thatcher will stop in the
:18:53. > :18:56.former -- in a former pit village in Midlothian, well it is laid a
:18:56. > :19:04.wreath. The Scottish government published
:19:04. > :19:07.legislation to increase preschool childcare. It will entitle three and
:19:07. > :19:09.four-year-old s two hours of free care.
:19:09. > :19:15.The six time Olympic gold medallist Sir Chris Hoyer announced he is
:19:15. > :19:18.retiring from cycling. I didn't want to turn up just a way to the crowd
:19:18. > :19:22.and get a tracksuit. I wanted to be there to win a medal for Scotland
:19:22. > :19:26.and because I don't feel I can do that, I've got to step aside and let
:19:26. > :19:31.someone else take my place. Almost 600 workers have been made redundant
:19:31. > :19:34.following the collapse of Scottish Coal. Directors of the biggest
:19:34. > :19:38.coal-mining company put it into Administration on Friday.
:19:38. > :19:47.And we were on Panda watch all week. The question now is, will the
:19:47. > :19:51.artificial insemination work? Stay tuned. That's the week that's just
:19:51. > :19:59.gone by. Now let's turn our attention to the big stories in
:19:59. > :20:02.politics and look at what's coming up in the week ahead.
:20:02. > :20:05.I'm joined in the studio now by two keen political bloggers, Kate
:20:05. > :20:10.Higgins who writes as Burdz Eye View, and Ian Smart who posts on his
:20:10. > :20:18.own site and contributes to Labour Hame. Good afternoon to you both.
:20:18. > :20:25.Let's start with a lighter subject, the pandas. First some news. I think
:20:25. > :20:34.we would -- we should just leave them alone. It is a reason why
:20:34. > :20:39.pandas are endangered. Animals should be treated with committee.
:20:39. > :20:45.am struggling to say anything respectful about this before the
:20:45. > :20:53.watershed. Let's turn our attention to what we were discussing at the
:20:53. > :21:01.top of the programme, we were interviewing Anas Sarwar. In the
:21:01. > :21:09.newspapers today we have headlines like... This was Johann Lamont 's
:21:09. > :21:13.conference speech. What did you make of it. It's hard to try and be
:21:13. > :21:20.positive when there is so little positivity coming from Labour. The
:21:20. > :21:25.first thing I would say, Labour has two stop orbiting around the SNP
:21:25. > :21:28.sun. It needs to define a political message and an offering for the
:21:28. > :21:37.Scottish people based on its values and what it has to say for himself.
:21:37. > :21:40.And linked into the interim report on devolution commission, that was
:21:40. > :21:46.basically an exercise on writing off all the things we can't do for
:21:46. > :21:51.reasons that are really about trying to win the UK election and also
:21:51. > :21:56.keeping their hands on for this Scottish elections, rather than
:21:57. > :22:02.actually thinking about what needs to be said and done as part of this
:22:02. > :22:06.independence referendum. It needs to sort is strategy and stop trying to
:22:06. > :22:11.make its proposals meet too many purposes. Let's take Kate's
:22:11. > :22:21.critique. A lot of people were saying there is a lack of vision in
:22:21. > :22:21.
:22:21. > :22:27.Laming's speech. -- Johann Lamont's speech. If I can deal with the
:22:27. > :22:32.demolition -- demolition commission first. Clearly, the Labour Party
:22:32. > :22:37.would admit that it was wrong. That would really cast a cloud as the
:22:37. > :22:41.conference met. As someone who was there, I thought the tone was too
:22:42. > :22:45.negative and up to a certain point, we knew what we were against but we
:22:45. > :22:50.didn't know what we are actually for. But I thought her speech that
:22:50. > :22:56.have a lot of substance. She said these were the things that need a
:22:56. > :23:00.priority, Scottish Parliament to bring in three childcare. But it
:23:00. > :23:03.involves making choices and the difficulty at the moment as that the
:23:03. > :23:10.current Scottish Government is not making these choices, it is just
:23:10. > :23:14.saying that everything should stay the same until September 2014. That
:23:14. > :23:22.is a long time away for there to be effectively no government in
:23:22. > :23:28.Scotland. Just in the point of the demolition -- did demolition
:23:28. > :23:33.commission, people would say what I Labour doing. When they are arguing
:23:33. > :23:38.amongst themselves. I don't know if they are all arguing among
:23:38. > :23:42.themselves but the same issues remain, if there is a vacant degree
:23:42. > :23:48.of financial autonomy for the Scottish Parliament, should we still
:23:48. > :23:52.have the same numbers of members at Westminster? The second thing is, as
:23:52. > :24:01.they are a proper parliament if it does not have accountability? The
:24:01. > :24:07.Americans had a revolution on no taxation without representation. In
:24:07. > :24:12.Scotland it is bizarre that we will have that. The interim report on the
:24:12. > :24:19.demolition commission, it is not the final one. Surely it is fear to have
:24:19. > :24:23.this open debate. I think that is something of a fudge. How long does
:24:23. > :24:31.it take for a commission to come up with a report? They have been at
:24:31. > :24:35.this for a year. To come back to the point is that Ian raises, I think
:24:35. > :24:42.they are fair ones. They are ones that Scottish Labour should be
:24:42. > :24:46.considering. This report does neither. 2014 truths team, who ever
:24:46. > :24:54.came up with that should be sacked or at least have a copy of 1984
:24:54. > :24:59.confiscated. The problem with setting yourself up as a witch
:24:59. > :25:04.finder general is that you will be found out. For jailed gear, you need
:25:04. > :25:09.that are currently reserved at Westminster. You need them in order
:25:09. > :25:13.to fashion a proper childcare policy that fits in a proper economic
:25:13. > :25:19.strategy, that is an argument for independence. I will let you come
:25:19. > :25:28.back on that. I take your point on employment law which is not
:25:28. > :25:32.devolved. I don't agree with the point about tax credits, I think
:25:32. > :25:41.there is a lot that can be done using the existing powers of the
:25:41. > :25:51.Scottish Parliament. Let's move it on to the current debate. From the
:25:51. > :25:52.
:25:52. > :25:56.male, we had... Not good reading for the SNP, is it? No, but I am sure
:25:56. > :26:03.that the Daily Mail does not count as one of his greatest cheerleaders.
:26:04. > :26:07.It is not partial or -- it is not impartial or I'm biased. Everything
:26:07. > :26:10.has got -- everyone has that something different to say on this.
:26:10. > :26:15.The one certainty we can offer is that the day after a yes vote we
:26:15. > :26:19.will still have sterling and we will still have pound, we will still be
:26:20. > :26:26.using the same currency as the rest of the UK. Thereafter, there is an
:26:26. > :26:29.honest on everybody in Scotland to fashion and work out what is in
:26:29. > :26:35.Scotland's long-term interests. It may be a separate currency because
:26:35. > :26:40.other countries manage just fine and all the scaremongering that Malcolm
:26:40. > :26:44.Bruce was putting up in the programme, and is contained in the
:26:44. > :26:47.newspapers, is nonsense. Other small countries manage their finances
:26:47. > :26:57.perfectly well without all the problems that seem to be foreseen by
:26:57. > :27:01.Scotland. In Scotland on Sunday, the headline is... Kate says she
:27:01. > :27:09.believes that after day one post independence, sterling will still be
:27:09. > :27:14.there. I think what it was saying that day one after the referendum is
:27:15. > :27:17.that sterling will still be there. The problem SNP has is that the
:27:17. > :27:26.minute anyone in the SNP started suggesting they would be a separate
:27:26. > :27:30.company, finds largely owned by English people in Scotland would get
:27:30. > :27:33.out of Scotland otherwise the business would collapse. That is one
:27:33. > :27:38.of the central contradictions, we have this integrated financial
:27:38. > :27:41.services market disproportionately located in Scotland at the moment
:27:41. > :27:45.and it would have to relocate for reasons of business necessity. It
:27:45. > :27:50.would have to relocate to England and Scotland and England have
:27:50. > :27:54.separate currencies. The point Malcolm Bruce was saying that why
:27:54. > :28:00.have independence if you want to keep this rest Mark there is a
:28:00. > :28:04.circle that the SNP are trying to square and not very well. Because
:28:04. > :28:10.exactly the point is that Ian is trying to make, not scaling horses
:28:11. > :28:13.before we get to the referendum. But there are ways around keeping a
:28:13. > :28:20.strong financial sector in Scotland after independence if that is what
:28:20. > :28:27.we want to do. You can use tax breaks, tax allowances in order to
:28:27. > :28:33.get over a separate currency or indeed, Malcolm Bruce's position and
:28:33. > :28:36.also the no campaign, is predicated on the fact that it would not be in
:28:36. > :28:40.the rest of the UK's centres to keep Scotland any currency union. I don't
:28:40. > :28:49.think that is the case, I think they would want to keep Scotland and all
:28:49. > :28:52.her assets as much as we would want that to happen. Just be free, that
:28:52. > :28:59.Treasury report coming out on Tuesday. Do these have a big impact
:28:59. > :29:09.on the debate? I have to say, I don't think anything has is big
:29:09. > :29:10.
:29:10. > :29:16.impact. In various blogs, there is a lot of debate but I would guarantee
:29:16. > :29:21.that nobody is a vote had been swept -- swayed by this. Bluntly, I don't
:29:22. > :29:30.see any body having the breakthrough and we may be in the same position
:29:30. > :29:36.for the next 18 months. We will have to leave it there, I'm afraid. Thank