:00:39. > :00:42.Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Is this man a
:00:42. > :00:46.racist thug with a taste for trouble or a voice of ordinary
:00:46. > :00:51.people in the face of Islamic fundamentalism? We'll ask English
:00:51. > :00:54.Defence League leader Tommy Robinson to come clean. The G8
:00:54. > :01:02.returns to the UK and the anti- capitalist protestors are gearing
:01:02. > :01:08.up, we'll go head to head on the evils - and virtues - of capitalism.
:01:08. > :01:11.And it is welfare reform's equivalent of the magic bullet. But
:01:11. > :01:14.And coming up on Sunday Politics Scotland: As the Conservatives and
:01:14. > :01:24.Labour tighten up on welfare, will granny escape the so-called bedroom
:01:24. > :01:24.
:01:24. > :29:57.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1712 seconds
:29:57. > :30:07.tax? One charity says why should The Department for work and
:30:07. > :30:09.
:30:09. > :30:13.pensions is aiming for 80% of claims to be online. If someone
:30:13. > :30:17.works, even for a short amount of time, it is worth their while and
:30:17. > :30:25.they remain in the system. government deliver IT change on
:30:25. > :30:28.this scale? I believe they can. The benefit system is incredibly
:30:28. > :30:35.complicated. The major projects Authority looked at universal
:30:35. > :30:40.credit in September of last year. Back then, it was graded amber/ red.
:30:40. > :30:46.It means successful delivery of the project is in doubt. Urgent action
:30:46. > :30:50.is needed. In May, the Government responded. Significant progress has
:30:50. > :30:54.been made in the delivery of universal credit. The pathfinder
:30:54. > :30:59.was successfully launched and we are on course to stop the
:30:59. > :31:03.progressive national roll-out of universal credit in October. -- to
:31:03. > :31:08.start. One MP is Warwick was that he is about to publish a book on
:31:08. > :31:13.the chequered history of a large government projects. -- is worried.
:31:13. > :31:17.The idea that the way to get this right is to say everything is going
:31:17. > :31:23.fine and there are no problems, it is all on time and on Churchill.
:31:23. > :31:28.That is not something I believe. -- on schedules. One theme runs
:31:28. > :31:33.through the tortuous history of bad software and that is the failure to
:31:33. > :31:37.confront reality. That is likely to be the case at the moment. That
:31:37. > :31:47.would be catastrophic for many currently on benefits. What do
:31:47. > :31:49.
:31:49. > :31:54.someone who cannot afford to feed their children look and sound like?
:31:54. > :31:59.I had never thought I would be in this predicament but I am. There
:31:59. > :32:05.are others out there who are in this situation but never dreamed of
:32:05. > :32:10.being in it. The thing is, how do you get out of it? That is what I
:32:10. > :32:16.am struggling with. I do not want to be on benefits. I want to work.
:32:16. > :32:21.The situation I am in now stops me. Exactly the sort of person
:32:21. > :32:26.universal credit are designed to help. Why does she not think being
:32:26. > :32:32.paid a lump sum monthly will work for people like her? What do they
:32:32. > :32:36.have to fall back on? They do not have an overdraft. I did have an
:32:36. > :32:42.overdraft and I lived off the overdraft. It has got so bad that
:32:42. > :32:46.they cannot afford to pay it back. You get this money. What happens if,
:32:46. > :32:51.for some reason or another, you have to spend more than the
:32:51. > :32:57.budgeted for a week or so? People will apply crisis loans. It will
:32:57. > :33:01.get worse. The Government insists it will ensure no one falls through
:33:02. > :33:07.the cracks. Despite backing some of the aims of universal credit, food
:33:07. > :33:13.banks are preparing to help more people when changes come. Last year,
:33:13. > :33:17.in 2012, we looked after 153,000 people whose primary reason for
:33:17. > :33:23.needing the three days of food we give them in the food bank was that
:33:23. > :33:27.there was a problem, a mistake, a change or to lay in benefit
:33:27. > :33:32.payments. We are dealing with a significant change. We anticipate
:33:32. > :33:38.large numbers of extra people coming to the banks as a
:33:38. > :33:43.consequence. That worries us. -- food banks. The Government says it
:33:43. > :33:47.will be flexible with people who might struggle to manage their
:33:47. > :33:53.money. Universal credit will roll out of right, not early. It has not
:33:54. > :33:56.yet convinced everyone this flagship policy is under control.
:33:56. > :33:58.Now, we would have liked to put those concerns about the
:33:58. > :34:01.implementation and implications of universal credit to a government
:34:01. > :34:11.minister but our invitation to someone - anyone - responsible for
:34:11. > :34:12.
:34:12. > :34:15.the policy was rejected. We will keep on asking. We are not easily
:34:15. > :34:19.embarrassed by rebuttals, and we will return to the subject in the
:34:19. > :34:22.weeks and months ahead. Now, it is G8 time again, and it is back in
:34:22. > :34:25.the United Kingdom, in Northern Ireland in fact, where the
:34:25. > :34:30.authorities are bracing themselves for aggro. This weekend, world
:34:30. > :34:37.leaders a Cabinet this luxurious golf resort in County Fermanagh for
:34:37. > :34:42.the latest G8 summit. On the agenda are trade, tax and transparency.
:34:42. > :34:45.There will also be discussions on Syria and internet spying. Prime
:34:45. > :34:48.ministers and presidents were not be the only ones descending on this
:34:48. > :34:53.peaceful part of Northern Ireland because protesters plan to make
:34:53. > :34:57.themselves heard as well. Meetings like the G8 and G20 have been
:34:57. > :35:02.accompanied by protests and violence for a number of years.
:35:02. > :35:11.Already this week, police raided a squat used by stock-take protesters
:35:11. > :35:15.in Central London. Police in Northern Ireland up on alert.
:35:15. > :35:19.Anarchist groups are protesting against capitalism itself. So, to
:35:19. > :35:29.debate all that, Owen Jones and Charlie Wolf go head to head on the
:35:29. > :35:30.
:35:30. > :35:34.I assume you stand shoulder to shoulder with the protesters. What
:35:34. > :35:39.do you want to achieve? Some of the main issues which are angering
:35:39. > :35:43.people are the fact we have 22,000 children dying every single day of
:35:44. > :35:50.hunger, poverty. That is seven times bigger than 9/11 every day.
:35:50. > :35:54.More people are dying of hunger can AIDS, tuberculosis and malaria
:35:54. > :35:59.combined. We have 14 trillion dollars of tax which has been
:35:59. > :36:02.stashed away, hidden from the taxman, at a time when third World
:36:02. > :36:06.countries are losing three times more through tax avoidance than
:36:06. > :36:11.they are getting through eight. Then the issues of climate change,
:36:11. > :36:17.the human rights record of Russia. The key point is, what protesters
:36:17. > :36:21.are trying to do, in the way that UK has put tax avoidance on the
:36:21. > :36:26.agenda, it is to hold leaders to account and make sure we have a
:36:26. > :36:33.national and global debate. We are holding to recount the eight most
:36:33. > :36:37.importing countries in the world. - - holding to account. The problem
:36:37. > :36:42.with world hunger is generally local governments. You can continue
:36:42. > :36:48.to throw money at the problem. There is more than enough food in
:36:48. > :36:55.the world. I agree with you. In Zimbabwe, it used to be Africa's
:36:55. > :37:00.breadbasket. It is not any more. this an issue for the G8? I do have
:37:00. > :37:04.a problem with the protesters. You can see by the way they handle
:37:04. > :37:10.themselves was a bit speaks volumes. I do not like the word capitalism.
:37:10. > :37:15.I prefer the word, free market. Capitalism was first used by
:37:15. > :37:20.William Thackeray make peace. pressed taxpayers are having to
:37:20. > :37:26.bail out the banks. That is not the fault of the people. The whole
:37:26. > :37:31.point about free markets is people making free decisions. Free markets
:37:31. > :37:35.are a morally correct institution. This is something that Margaret
:37:35. > :37:44.Thatcher talked about many years ago. Let me put this to you Foster
:37:44. > :37:51.in terms of free-market capitalism, in 2008, when the linchpin of the
:37:51. > :37:55.capitalist system came crashing down. The state came to the rescue.
:37:55. > :38:03.That is socialism - socialism for the rich and capitalism for
:38:03. > :38:07.everyone else. A lot of people on the right had agreed to let them
:38:07. > :38:11.fail. There are places for the state. I do not disagree. One needs
:38:11. > :38:15.to look at how we got into the mess in the first place was a free
:38:15. > :38:20.markets were not allowed to be free. The whole genesis of the problem
:38:20. > :38:26.was Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Capitalism is in crisis. Why is
:38:26. > :38:32.there left so weak? Why are they making no advances democratically?
:38:32. > :38:39.The number of protesters is diminishing. It is a good point.
:38:40. > :38:43.You need anger at how things I hope at how things can be. There is
:38:43. > :38:49.anger out there. The average worker is going through the bigger squeeze
:38:49. > :38:57.in pay packets since records began. What is lacking is hope. That is
:38:57. > :39:02.the need for a coherent alternative. That will give people hope.
:39:02. > :39:08.Ordinary folk, living standards being squeezed. They are paying a
:39:08. > :39:16.shed load of tax, helping to bail out the banks. Shouldn't they be
:39:16. > :39:20.angry that companies like Google and Amazon pay next to nothing?
:39:20. > :39:26.Governments right laws. They act to the laws. They are paying a legal
:39:26. > :39:33.tax. They had aggressive lawyers and accountants. Are they doing
:39:33. > :39:37.anything illegal? Of course not. That makes it worse. Change the tax
:39:37. > :39:41.laws. It disturbs me when I listen to David Cameron going on about the
:39:42. > :39:48.Irish and their corporate tax laws. If he does not like it, blow up our
:39:48. > :39:58.tax rates. Do you think socialism would ever come up in a search
:39:58. > :40:06.engine? -- lower at tax rates. They are still talking but not as bad as
:40:07. > :40:14.last week. It is coming up to Welcome to Sunday Politics Scotland.
:40:14. > :40:20.Coming up: As the so-called bedroom tax bites across the UK, we ask
:40:20. > :40:24.should the over-65s be dependent on benefit cuts, and what is the
:40:24. > :40:30.knock-on effect for Scotland? The political arguments go round and
:40:30. > :40:36.round the roundabout. I've been to Aberdeen Donside ahead of
:40:36. > :40:39.Thursday's by-election. Granny is mugging you, that is how
:40:39. > :40:44.one commentator in a newspaper yesterday warned the younger
:40:44. > :40:47.generation that there are not having it so good. As the Conservatives and
:40:47. > :40:52.Labour take tougher positions on welfare, how long will the elderly
:40:52. > :40:58.escape the cuts? One charity are seeing the bedroom tax should apply
:40:58. > :41:03.across the board. These ladies feel strongly that
:41:03. > :41:09.older people like them should not face welfare cuts, particularly when
:41:09. > :41:14.it comes to something known as the bedroom tax. Older people have
:41:14. > :41:18.adapted their homes by that age to suit their way of living. They have
:41:18. > :41:27.paid taxes all their life and when they get to that age they should be
:41:27. > :41:31.able to live in comfort. Currently none of the Westminster parties...
:41:31. > :41:37.Given that two thirds of the entire welfare budget is spent on older
:41:37. > :41:41.people, some say that position is not sustainable. When the UK
:41:41. > :41:47.Government introduced what became known as the bedroom tax, it was to
:41:47. > :41:54.save money and lease larger houses for families. One area they haven't
:41:54. > :41:59.tackled is the occupation of those over the age of 65. One charity for
:41:59. > :42:07.disabled people believes that the burden for the bedroom tax should be
:42:07. > :42:16.spread more equally. There should be a presumption of equality for older
:42:16. > :42:23.people as well as younger people. average 29% of people over the age
:42:23. > :42:26.of 65 are on housing benefit. Of them 81% live on their own. Only
:42:26. > :42:36.three local authorities were able to tell us how many of those were
:42:36. > :42:41.occupied. Interestingly, no one exactly knows how much under
:42:41. > :42:47.occupancy of the over 65s costs the country. Labour and the
:42:47. > :42:52.Conservatives have stated that they will reduce the level of welfare
:42:52. > :42:59.spending should they win the next election. An academic told me that
:42:59. > :43:03.older people could be in the frame for future cuts. The Chancellor at
:43:04. > :43:10.his last budget said he wanted to limit the amount spent on annually
:43:10. > :43:14.managed expenditure. 40% of that is the state pension. Labour have just
:43:14. > :43:23.said that if they return to government they would cap welfare.
:43:23. > :43:33.That cannot be done without capping payments to the elderly.
:43:33. > :43:36.
:43:36. > :43:40.government has control over what buildings are created. Housing
:43:41. > :43:45.groups say it is making it very hard to plan. We didn't start off with a
:43:45. > :43:50.policy in Scotland that there is a problem with under occupied
:43:50. > :44:00.property. I was convinced that there was data for people of pensionable
:44:00. > :44:02.
:44:02. > :44:07.age that showed that they were under applying to a significant extent.
:44:07. > :44:12.The elderly vote across the UK is a large and influential one. We know
:44:12. > :44:18.what those parties are going to give us and we will vote for the party
:44:18. > :44:24.that will serve us best. For any government to cut welfare to older
:44:24. > :44:34.people would be brave. But changes may be inevitable given the growing
:44:34. > :44:39.
:44:39. > :44:48.elderly population. Joining me is the SNP's Linda
:44:48. > :44:55.Fabiani, Drew Smith and Alex Johnston. Our older people at risk
:44:55. > :44:58.now from funding cuts under a future Tory government, do you think?
:44:58. > :45:04.government had given a sound commitment that older people will be
:45:04. > :45:08.protected. We have already seen a record rise in the state pension and
:45:08. > :45:15.that is evidence of what is going on, but we have to remember that it
:45:15. > :45:19.is the case that pension age people are not exempt from the kind of
:45:19. > :45:23.reorganisation that is going on. The pension age will change radically
:45:23. > :45:30.and that will be the way in which efficiencies are made in the cost of
:45:30. > :45:35.keeping those who are now pensioners. That promised to protect
:45:35. > :45:40.the over-65s only extends to the end of parliament, doesn't it? In the
:45:40. > :45:46.car and circumstances there is a needed to ensure the welfare budget
:45:46. > :45:52.is brought under control. -- current. You can seek employment or
:45:52. > :45:58.find extra hours, for example, and many people do not have that
:45:58. > :46:02.option. These are people who have contributed all their lives to the
:46:02. > :46:10.support of the welfare and benefit system and it is appropriate that
:46:10. > :46:19.their position should be protected. Drew, it looks like Labour are now
:46:19. > :46:21.sticking to the Tory spending plans. Ed Miliband wants a cap on benefits.
:46:21. > :46:25.Perhaps you are understanding tough choices need to be made protest over
:46:25. > :46:30.the bedroom tax has turned into a whisper. Will you be cutting
:46:30. > :46:37.benefits for older people? protest for the bedroom tax has not
:46:37. > :46:42.reduced to a whisper. The protest is that it simply won't work. For a
:46:42. > :46:46.whole range of people affected by it and across disabled groups, they
:46:46. > :46:51.need that extra room for good reasons and the bedroom tax fails to
:46:52. > :46:56.recognise that. The real problem is that we don't have homes to move
:46:56. > :47:01.people into. Even if it was desirable, we take the view that
:47:01. > :47:05.there is a significant problem with under occupancy here in Scotland.
:47:05. > :47:11.The idea of extending bedroom tax is not something that will carry much
:47:11. > :47:20.favour. What about the winter fuel allowance for less well-off
:47:21. > :47:26.pensioners? We are saying that in terms of higher rates of income tax,
:47:26. > :47:32.we would not pay the winter fuel payment for those well-off
:47:32. > :47:34.individuals. That is a small group of people, so we are not removing a
:47:34. > :47:44.large group of pensioners from the system, but we are recognising that
:47:44. > :47:47.these are tough times and economies must be made. We need to look at
:47:47. > :47:52.what pensioners can afford, but in the main we need to understand that
:47:52. > :47:59.a lot of pensioners are on small incomes and it is difficult for them
:47:59. > :48:04.to meet the bills that we all have. Linda Fabiani, it is a different
:48:04. > :48:10.story from you. You want to repeal the bedroom tax in the first year of
:48:10. > :48:18.an independent Scotland. That would cost �60 million. How on earth can
:48:18. > :48:27.you afford this largess? When you look at the Treasury figures,
:48:28. > :48:32.Scotland spends less of its GNP on welfare than the UK as a whole, so
:48:32. > :48:36.Scotland can cope very well with its own system. What I would like to say
:48:36. > :48:43.about pensioners is any talk at all from the Westminster parties about
:48:43. > :48:48.extending the bedroom tax, we should always bear in mind that a lot of
:48:48. > :48:53.pensioners pay full rent and always have. A lot of pensioners pay most
:48:53. > :48:56.of their rent and get a top up from housing benefit, so the impression
:48:56. > :49:01.that there are all these pensioners getting free housing is quite
:49:01. > :49:07.clearly wrong. When you set out your stall to voters and people see what
:49:07. > :49:11.you are proposing, it does seem quite generous, but when you see
:49:11. > :49:19.what the Conservatives and Labour Party are doing, do you not think
:49:19. > :49:22.they are taking a more pragmatic view? When you look at what is
:49:22. > :49:26.happening to disabled people through the welfare cuts, when you look at
:49:26. > :49:30.the fact that for the first time in a long time you have people queuing
:49:31. > :49:35.at food banks. We have people being sanctioned for mistakes they have
:49:35. > :49:39.not made in their applications. We have even got people with terminal
:49:39. > :49:44.illnesses being forced to go to work assessment. I think people will look
:49:44. > :49:48.at that and think, "that is not what we want. That is not what we pay
:49:48. > :49:56.taxes for. Our country should not be part of a system that allows that to
:49:56. > :50:01.happen." Alex Johnson, hearing that, the bedroom tax has had terrible
:50:01. > :50:03.publicity. It has been pretty bad for the Coalition government. It
:50:03. > :50:09.sounds from what Linda Fabiani is saying that she thinks she can
:50:09. > :50:15.balance the books. What do you see? I do not believe that at all. The
:50:15. > :50:19.under occupancy charge is beginning to do its job. The commitment that
:50:19. > :50:23.Alex Salmond gave me that it would be repealed in the first year of an
:50:23. > :50:28.independent Scotland is bogus. By 2017, the charge will have done its
:50:28. > :50:32.job. As a result, it will no longer cost a vast amount to repealed. What
:50:32. > :50:38.has to be said is that in a recent report published by the welfare
:50:38. > :50:41.reform committee, it was suggested that welfare changes were going to
:50:41. > :50:45.cost Scotland �1.6 billion per year. At that stage, Linda Fabiani
:50:45. > :50:50.was jumping up and down, demanding that the �1.6 billion be brought
:50:50. > :50:54.back again. The fact is that when I asked the First Minister about this,
:50:54. > :50:58.he talked about a few million here and a few million there was 1
:50:58. > :51:02.million miles away from giving that �1.6 billion commitment. What you're
:51:02. > :51:08.getting is a lot of hot air. No facts on how an independent
:51:08. > :51:17.Scotland, or the SNP, would deal with the situation. It is all talk.
:51:17. > :51:22.I put that back to. A lot of hot air? Scotland can afford its own
:51:22. > :51:25.social care system. More than the rest of the UK. Fact, after the
:51:25. > :51:30.transitional arrangements within which will make changes such as
:51:30. > :51:33.getting rid of the bedroom tax in the first year and moving to a
:51:33. > :51:39.fairer system of an integrated tax benefit system instead of these
:51:39. > :51:44.quick fixes that the other parties do all the time. Fact. Is this going
:51:44. > :51:50.to be a 0-sum change? Will it cost us nothing? Scotland is even rich
:51:50. > :51:53.country. It is the richest ever been. Yes, Scotland can do it. The
:51:53. > :52:01.proof is there. You just have to look at the figures. Drew Smith,
:52:01. > :52:05.talking of a fairer, more equal society, it has been suggested that
:52:05. > :52:10.the burden should be shared across the ages. What do you think about
:52:10. > :52:15.that? I think any reform of the welfare system looks to look at the
:52:15. > :52:18.whole system. -- needs to look at the whole system. The debate here in
:52:18. > :52:23.Scotland is to an extended. Eight. Scottish Government are telling us
:52:23. > :52:31.that it will be all right if some we
:52:31. > :52:34.we are going to keep a transitional agreement with the rest of the UK,
:52:34. > :52:38.which is astonishing from a Nationalist party. They then say
:52:39. > :52:44.that we will continue with the bases of sharing that with the rest of UK?
:52:44. > :52:46.How that work? Will they need to have separate computer systems to
:52:47. > :52:49.administer this? In the meantime, we are not getting to the bigger
:52:49. > :52:54.changes which are actually needed, hitting people to work and
:52:54. > :52:58.supporting them. We are talking about infrastructure. The North of
:52:58. > :53:02.Ireland's part of the UK and already does that differently policy wise.
:53:02. > :53:09.Scotland can do that as well. We can have that transitional period. We do
:53:09. > :53:12.not want to wake up the day after independence and that nobody in
:53:12. > :53:18.England gets their benefit payments. That is not correct. Thank
:53:18. > :53:20.you all very much. We have to leave it there. It has been the final
:53:20. > :53:24.weekend of campaigning in the Aberdeen Donside by-election. The
:53:24. > :53:28.parties are now appealing for the poor on Thursday. The oil capital of
:53:28. > :53:35.Europe has not provided a fiery and energetic debate at local issues
:53:35. > :53:39.have come to the fore. I caught up with the candidates.
:53:39. > :53:44.Getting in some early practice for the Aberdeen traffic at this
:53:44. > :53:47.nursery. The Granite city's transport problems have been a
:53:47. > :53:52.feature of this campaign. Labour's Will Young has spotted this as a key
:53:52. > :53:58.issue. He has accused is SNP opponent of failing to stand up for
:53:58. > :54:01.the city. We are the oil capital of Europe. Our infrastructure is very
:54:01. > :54:09.important, to the people of Aberdeen. We need to give the
:54:09. > :54:12.roundabout sorted out. My opponent said it was a priority a few years
:54:13. > :54:19.ago. Now he says we need to wait until 2019 to sorted out. That is
:54:19. > :54:23.unacceptable. To the doorsteps of leafy Kings Wells, the Liberal
:54:23. > :54:27.Democrat says that both Labour and the SNP are giving a transport. She
:54:27. > :54:33.says the city is not receiving its of cash. What people want is money
:54:33. > :54:36.invested in Aberdeen. They want to see it getting its fair share. The
:54:36. > :54:39.SNP and Holyrood art shortchanging Aberdeen to the tune of �21 million
:54:39. > :54:44.per year. That is money that could be spent on the infrastructure that
:54:44. > :54:50.we would want to be spent on better roads, keeping schools open. It is a
:54:50. > :54:53.similar message from the Conservatives. Ross Thomson's a
:54:53. > :54:58.councillor. He says he has secured more money for monuments like this
:54:58. > :55:02.and is now fighting for what he calls the forgotten city. It is a
:55:02. > :55:06.successful city but not successful for all. In down side, we have some
:55:06. > :55:14.of the highest levels of deprivation. Some of the communities
:55:14. > :55:18.are in the top 15%. We're not getting our fair should have --
:55:18. > :55:24.first year of taxes and I would go to Holyrood and tell them to give us
:55:24. > :55:28.that. Also, the Scottish Greens. A different view. They don't want big
:55:28. > :55:32.transport projects. We want to concentrate on public transport. We
:55:32. > :55:38.see that as the way forward. You cannot keep building more and more
:55:38. > :55:44.roads, more and more bridges. You just increase the traffic and
:55:44. > :55:49.congestion. It is Friday lunchtime here. Six days to go until the
:55:49. > :55:54.by-election. Let's see what people are thinking. I have never voted. I
:55:54. > :56:04.just don't bother any more. Away from SNP, which devoted the last
:56:04. > :56:04.
:56:04. > :56:11.time. I haven't decided. I am still thinking about it. SNP. Why? I have
:56:11. > :56:16.been brought up with that, with my family. It is just what we do.
:56:16. > :56:22.is the Aberdeen Exhibition And Conference Centre. It is -- I
:56:22. > :56:27.remember the night very clearly in 2003 when the late Brian Adam one
:56:27. > :56:32.Aberdeen North is a very slim majority over the liver party. It
:56:32. > :56:39.was a sign of what was to come, the SNP's popularity in this city and
:56:39. > :56:43.the rest of Scotland. The SNP won a majority in 2011. Their opponents
:56:43. > :56:48.claim independence has not been mentioned much in this Ambien. Not
:56:48. > :56:51.true, says Mark O'Donnell. He also rejects claims that he is dithering
:56:51. > :56:55.on the roundabouts. Apparently, the new bypass has to be constructive
:56:55. > :57:03.first. The so-called forgotten city of actually receiving �1 billion of
:57:03. > :57:08.investment, he claims. Brian Adam, of course, received about half the
:57:08. > :57:12.votes last election are you complacent? Absolutely not. We are
:57:12. > :57:15.speaking to as many voters as we can. Brian did a huge amount of work
:57:15. > :57:18.for this constituency, over many years. People are recognising that
:57:19. > :57:23.on the doorsteps. Many people you speak to will talk about O'Brien
:57:23. > :57:26.helped them, in one way or another. He a strong legacy of hard work for
:57:26. > :57:30.this constituency and I want to build on that and make sure that
:57:30. > :57:33.people continue to receive that representation. It may be a while
:57:33. > :57:38.until building work starts at the notorious roundabout but this
:57:38. > :57:40.political merry-go-round only has a few days left to run.
:57:40. > :57:50.For more information on the Aberdeen Donside by-election, you can visit
:57:50. > :57:53.
:57:53. > :57:59.very own political editor Brian Taylor. Thanks for joining me.
:57:59. > :58:02.Before we get to predictions, let's talk about the issues. I learned to
:58:02. > :58:06.drive on the haddock and roundabout. You can understand why it has been a
:58:06. > :58:13.big issue that seems to have been the big one. We both have Aberdonian
:58:13. > :58:17.connections. I started my journalistic career there. It is
:58:17. > :58:22.totemic for transport services generally, for the bypass, for a
:58:22. > :58:25.third bridge crossing. It is for more than that. People in other
:58:25. > :58:28.cities in Scotland would find it absurd given the level of employment
:58:28. > :58:34.and welfare of other is in Aberdeen but there is also alongside that
:58:34. > :58:39.wealth, a sense of insecurity, a sense of uncertainty, a sense of
:58:39. > :58:43.doubt. A sense, perhaps, that they are missing opportunities. Here we
:58:43. > :58:48.talk about the roundabout, the gardens on the Main Street, and you
:58:48. > :58:58.just sends Aberdonians feeling that other cities might be taking the
:58:58. > :59:00.
:59:00. > :59:07.lead. Whether we are modernising more quickly. The local council is
:59:07. > :59:12.led by Labour and it is whether it is whether to spin to that or
:59:12. > :59:16.Holyrood. Or, does that in itself to the UK Government? The Liberal
:59:16. > :59:20.Democrats were the Tories. It is a remarkable by-election with the four
:59:20. > :59:23.main candidates each having to defend a record in office. As they
:59:23. > :59:28.go around the doorsteps, they are having to defend the record in
:59:28. > :59:32.office, whatever that may be. Of course, there are some areas of
:59:32. > :59:41.deprivation in the city. We speak about its wealth and eyedropper of
:59:41. > :59:49.Aberdeen so naughty wealth, but there are areas of deprivation. -- I
:59:49. > :59:53.grew up in Aberdeen so now about the Wells. It is more generally. It is
:59:53. > :59:58.this curious sense of being bypassed. They are demanding a
:59:58. > :00:02.bypass but the curious sense of being bypassed. The argument is
:00:02. > :00:05.whether that is intrinsic within Aberdeen itself. As the city doing
:00:05. > :00:10.enough itself to stimulate its own economy or is it to external
:00:10. > :00:15.factors, including the Scottish Government and the UK Government?
:00:15. > :00:19.You're hearing this argument more and more. This has been a resolutely
:00:19. > :00:23.local by-election and I give no harm to them for that. There are some big
:00:23. > :00:28.vocal issues. Not just the roads but the provisional provision of schools
:00:28. > :00:33.and the general state of the structure of Aberdeen alongside that
:00:33. > :00:36.being the issue of poverty and deprivation. Each of the candidates
:00:36. > :00:41.having to address these. Having to address this general feeling. Again,
:00:41. > :00:45.I see that people in other parts of Scotland would find this incredible,
:00:45. > :00:48.this general feeling of disquiet. I do not want to overemphasise that
:00:48. > :00:57.Aberdeen is doing extremely well. Its economy is booming. There is
:00:57. > :01:02.still that sense of, "is it going to last? " no, the bookies are calling
:01:02. > :01:06.it for the SNP. Brian Adam had just over half of the vote. Mark McDonald
:01:06. > :01:12.says he is not complacent. He is not. The SNP will not like that sort
:01:12. > :01:20.of talk. They will not like the idea that it is a shoo-in for them. They
:01:20. > :01:22.are defending a large majority will top by Brian Adam. The patch of
:01:22. > :01:26.Aberdeen North generally has been a very strong Labour territory as
:01:26. > :01:31.well. Of course, the other parties will be fighting for a share of the
:01:31. > :01:38.vote. It will be down to who is best able to capture that zeitgeist in
:01:38. > :01:40.Aberdeen. That idea of standing up for the city. You heard of the
:01:40. > :01:45.candidates saying that they were going to knock on the First
:01:45. > :01:55.Minister's door and see... He would have easy access to that! All the
:01:55. > :01:55.
:01:55. > :02:01.candidates would say they have -- or the ones to do that. What is
:02:01. > :02:10.Labour's strategy? They are talking about Aberdeen as the forgotten city
:02:10. > :02:13.and are also being dumb claim the independence card, they are going
:02:13. > :02:23.around saying that they have to use this opportunity to put a stop on
:02:23. > :02:24.
:02:24. > :02:28.independence. -- also play the independence card. The issues that
:02:28. > :02:35.are coming today for a big local constituency issues. It is perfectly
:02:35. > :02:39.legitimate for those two opposed the SNP to stand against them. A huge
:02:39. > :02:46.effort by Labour and the SNP. A lot of footsoldiers being often. Over
:02:46. > :02:51.the period of the contest, for votes, it has been quite remarkable.
:02:51. > :02:55.They really are pulling out all the two ruin this. Kuipers ins the
:02:55. > :02:59.SNP's notional overall majority in. It is a big deal. Thank you.
:02:59. > :03:03.Don't forget, there will be full coverage of the results in a
:03:03. > :03:12.Newsnight Scotland by-election special at 11pm on Thursday on BBC
:03:12. > :03:22.Two. Coming up after the news, the week ahead with our guests. Alf
:03:22. > :03:27.
:03:27. > :03:33.Young and Katie grant will be here. Good afternoon.
:03:33. > :03:36.David Cameron will hold talks with the Russian president Vladimir
:03:36. > :03:42.Putin, with the conflict in Syria expected to dominate discussions.
:03:42. > :03:50.The Russians have suggested that the claims that chemical weapons have
:03:50. > :03:54.been used or fabricated. -- or fabricated.
:03:54. > :03:57.Northern Ireland is getting ready. The G8 Summit starts tomorrow. World
:03:57. > :04:02.leaders to start arriving later today. Syria is like to be the big
:04:02. > :04:06.talking point. Russia strongly opposes the idea of arming the
:04:06. > :04:12.opposition there, exactly what the United States, France and the UK are
:04:12. > :04:15.now considering. The Prime Minister's doing his best to find
:04:15. > :04:20.common ground with Russia's President Putin, head of their talks
:04:20. > :04:23.in Downing Street this afternoon. The option we all want is an
:04:23. > :04:27.international peace conference and an international agreement for a
:04:27. > :04:30.transitional government in Syria that the Syrian people can have
:04:30. > :04:35.confidence in and then elections and a new Syrian government. That is
:04:35. > :04:38.what everybody wants. The disagreement is how we get there.
:04:38. > :04:44.David Cameron says he has not decided whether to arm decision
:04:44. > :04:48.rebels. His deputy, Nick Clegg, says he is not decided either but does
:04:48. > :04:51.not sound convinced. We have taken no decision to provide lethal
:04:51. > :04:55.assistance. Weak religion not think it is the right thing to do
:04:55. > :05:01.otherwise would have decided to do it. -- we clearly do not think. What
:05:01. > :05:06.we are doing is providing only for assistance. As the gathering County
:05:06. > :05:15.Fermanagh, the question is whether David Cameron could secure the
:05:15. > :05:19.majority of MPs to send arms if he concludes that is worthwhile. A man
:05:19. > :05:26.has been arrested after four people, including a police officer, were
:05:26. > :05:30.stabbed in a mosque in Birmingham late last night. The incident
:05:30. > :05:35.happened at around 11 o'clock last night. Local people were saying that
:05:35. > :05:40.there was a dispute in the mosque behind me between two people. One
:05:40. > :05:45.man was brandishing a knife, two other men went in to try to break up
:05:45. > :05:50.the altercation. Three people ended up being stabbed. The police
:05:50. > :05:54.attended afterwords and as they tried to detain the suspect one of
:05:54. > :05:59.the officers was stabbed. It is important to stress that all of
:05:59. > :06:04.those injured are in hospital but those injuries are not said to be
:06:04. > :06:09.life-threatening. A 23-year-old man of Somali appearance is in custody
:06:09. > :06:14.on suspicion of attempted murder. Police are not treating this as a
:06:14. > :06:21.suspected hate crime, but we will hear much more at a press conference
:06:21. > :06:26.in about one hour's time. Hundreds of Turkish police officers have used
:06:26. > :06:30.tear gas to clear demonstrators from the park in Istanbul with a have
:06:30. > :06:34.been protesting against Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan. The
:06:34. > :06:36.move prompted and rest elsewhere in the city, with some people starting
:06:36. > :06:41.bonfires, and there were demonstrations in other parts of the
:06:41. > :06:45.country. The bodies of two men have been
:06:45. > :06:50.recovered by emergency crews searching for two climbers missing
:06:50. > :06:53.off the coast of Anglesey. The bodies were found in the water at
:06:53. > :07:03.South Stack near Holyhead. North Wales Police say they have yet to
:07:03. > :07:08.
:07:08. > :07:13.speculate whether a threatening note found on board a plane travelling
:07:13. > :07:16.from Cairo to New York is credible. The EgyptAir flight was forced to
:07:16. > :07:21.make an emergency landing at Prestwick airport yesterday
:07:21. > :07:27.afternoon after a passenger found a note in a toilet. It shortly
:07:27. > :07:31.afterwards resumed its journey. Andy Murray will play Marin Cilic
:07:32. > :07:36.after defeating Jo-Wilfried Tsonga in three sets. The world number two
:07:36. > :07:42.battle from one set down against the Frenchman and won the last set 6-2.
:07:42. > :07:52.Final will begin in a few minutes and you can watch it live on this
:07:52. > :07:58.breaking to allow some spells of sunshine. There will be a scattering
:07:58. > :08:01.of showers. Not everyone will catch one, but if you do it will be
:08:01. > :08:07.slow-moving and possibly on the heavy side. Temperatures will be as
:08:08. > :08:13.high as 19 degrees. That is all from the newsroom for now, I will be back
:08:13. > :08:21.at ten minutes to seven this evening.
:08:21. > :08:25.Time to talk about the week that was and take a look at the week ahead.
:08:25. > :08:34.To do that I have the political commentator Alf Young and Katie
:08:34. > :08:39.Grant in the studio. Thank you for joining me. We had the debate on
:08:39. > :08:43.welfare and older people are now more likely to be hit by cuts as the
:08:43. > :08:48.two bigger parties at Westminster firm up their attitude on welfare.
:08:48. > :08:50.They think this is likely? I don't like the language of targeting, but
:08:50. > :08:58.I think there is a huge issue that I think there is a huge issue that
:08:58. > :09:03.must be It is not just about the bedroom tax, it is about the reality
:09:03. > :09:07.over the last 30 years that older people are doing rather well
:09:07. > :09:16.compared to almost every other group in the population. The people doing
:09:16. > :09:19.worst are those younger than 25. Younger people are starting their
:09:19. > :09:24.lives with greater disadvantages in terms of finding work and their
:09:24. > :09:27.earning power compared to when I was that age, so the big issue is the
:09:27. > :09:31.equity between these different groups and what politicians are
:09:31. > :09:36.going to do about it. What you saw from the film is that they are not
:09:36. > :09:43.going to do very much, cause older people will vote for the people who
:09:43. > :09:49.promised them the most. Katie Grant, you mentioned that Granny is mugging
:09:49. > :09:54.you. There is a feeling amongst the younger generation that they are
:09:54. > :09:58.paying a lot of benefits for the older generation. I agree with Alf,
:09:58. > :10:02.the language is bad and it is going to have to change, because when we
:10:03. > :10:07.talk about over-65s, these are relatively young people now because
:10:07. > :10:12.you can live until you are 90. Many people want to work until they are
:10:12. > :10:16.over 80, so this is a time of transition, but I agree with Alf. It
:10:16. > :10:22.is not fair for older people, who have benefited from changes since
:10:22. > :10:27.the war, to now say that younger people must look after themselves. I
:10:27. > :10:30.know a lot of older people help their grandchildren are a lot, and
:10:30. > :10:34.that is a good aim and I like the idea of older people helping younger
:10:34. > :10:39.people, but I don't think they should hold themselves aloof over
:10:39. > :10:45.what is happening in the world as though they are sacrosanct. The Tory
:10:45. > :10:52.MSP was saying that as the retirement age edges up we can now
:10:52. > :10:57.capture these people. Absolutely. We talk about pensioners as if they are
:10:57. > :11:05.an endangered species. I saw a picture last night, Neil Young and
:11:05. > :11:12.Crazy Horse at the SEC C. He is not at the stage where he is giving up
:11:12. > :11:16.work. 1 million people over 65 are still working. Pensioners say, we
:11:16. > :11:22.are discriminated against because of our age. You can't have it both
:11:22. > :11:29.ways, you can't be fragile and needy and still get a job. We need to
:11:29. > :11:38.change the way we think about being old. A big debate lies ahead. The
:11:38. > :11:47.papers are discussing the Donside collection. -- E-Lites and. --
:11:47. > :11:52.election. What are your thoughts on this by-election? Unlike you I have
:11:53. > :11:58.not been there, I see that right up front, but it seems to me it is
:11:58. > :12:02.quite hard to overturn a 7000 majority in the current climate. The
:12:02. > :12:12.really interesting question would be how many people vote, because if you
:12:12. > :12:13.
:12:13. > :12:16.get a very poor results on Thursday it will not look good for the debate
:12:16. > :12:21.on the referendum because it says that a lot of people have just been
:12:21. > :12:27.turned off by the whole thing. The other interesting thing about it is
:12:27. > :12:31.you are getting a sense in Aberdeen of the outer Scotland beginning to
:12:31. > :12:38.see the same things about the central belt and Edinburgh that we
:12:38. > :12:41.are currently hearing about Scotland and London. I think this will be
:12:41. > :12:45.about local issues, not a litmus test on independence. The
:12:45. > :12:50.interesting thing will be what happens to the smaller parties, they
:12:50. > :12:54.are more interesting than the bigger parties in this by-election. It will
:12:54. > :12:58.be very interesting to see the anger directed against the Holyrood
:12:58. > :13:03.government and what it is not doing for us rather than the UK
:13:03. > :13:12.Government, so there is a sense that things are becoming more
:13:12. > :13:22.sophisticated, if you like. Sunday mail says Brown Not Out, Pm
:13:22. > :13:23.
:13:23. > :13:27.Will Stand Again. If he doesn't, I suspect it is more about being
:13:27. > :13:31.involved in Kirk day than about being involved in Westminster.
:13:31. > :13:37.think he will, I think Sarah was saying, stand again, don't stay in
:13:37. > :13:42.the house all day. Tomorrow Jackie Bird will be hosting a special
:13:42. > :13:47.Newsnight Scotland debate. She will be joined by an audience of women.