:00:36. > :00:43.Morning, folks. Welcome to the veritable pot pourri that is this
:00:43. > :00:47.morning's Sunday Politics Stakes. We'll have the new Scottish
:00:47. > :00:50.Secretary, Alistair Carmichael. We'll be asking him what ease got
:00:50. > :00:58.that his predecessor, Michael Moore hasn't.
:00:58. > :01:03.Like a Duracell bunny, Ken Clarke just keeps going and going. He'll be
:01:03. > :01:06.banging his drum for Europe. Free of the shackles of government,
:01:06. > :01:09.former Energy Secretary Chris Huhne will be with us. We'll be asking him
:01:09. > :01:13.for the inside scoop. And Diane Abbott will be joining us
:01:13. > :01:16.too. That nasty Ed Miliband sent her packing last week. We'll find out
:01:16. > :01:21.why. And on Sunday Politics Scotland, 25
:01:21. > :01:27.years on from the iconic single Letter From America, we revisit the
:01:27. > :01:38.industrial heartlands and ask, is Scottish industry still no more?
:01:38. > :01:45.a job but failed miserably, Mick watt, Miranda Green Andijan an
:01:45. > :01:50.Ganesh. They'll Tweet like mad as if their lives depended on it
:01:50. > :01:54.throughout the programme. Is Ed Miliband's Labour Party moving
:01:55. > :02:01.to the left or right? Last week, a chid owe Cabinet reshuffle was seen
:02:01. > :02:04.a a shift to the lot of. Two have announced policy changes which could
:02:04. > :02:09.indicate he moved back to the middle. New shadows Work and
:02:09. > :02:14.Pensions Secretary Rachel Reeves says Labour will be tougher on the
:02:14. > :02:18.Tories. While Tristram Hunt says Labour loves Tory-style free schools
:02:18. > :02:21.after all. Here he is on the BBC earlier this morning.
:02:21. > :02:26.I've one message for you and viewers. If you are a group of
:02:26. > :02:31.parents, social entrepreneurs, teachers, interested in setting up a
:02:31. > :02:35.school in areas where you need new school place, the Labour Government
:02:35. > :02:37.will be on your side. That's free schools. We are in favour of
:02:37. > :02:42.enterprise and innovation. It will schools. We are in favour of
:02:42. > :02:43.be in areas of need. We have a school places crisis going on. It
:02:44. > :02:47.will have properly qualified school places crisis going on. It
:02:47. > :02:53.teachers in these schools. And thirdly, systems of financial
:02:53. > :03:04.accountability. What is going on with the Al Madina school is because
:03:04. > :03:09.of terrible mistakes with Michael Gove's policy.
:03:09. > :03:13.I'm not sure if the policies have changed, the change of tone is
:03:13. > :03:16.remarkable, both on welfare and free schools. A significant change of
:03:16. > :03:21.tone. It was interesting the reshuffle on the Labour frontbench
:03:21. > :03:28.last week was init wered as a purge of Blair rights. It seemed to be a
:03:28. > :03:34.purge of anti-reform thinking. Rachel Reeves was not saying anythi
:03:34. > :03:41.different on substance but saying Labour will be tough than the Tories
:03:41. > :03:44.on welfare. You've seen that clip from Tristram, free schools will be
:03:44. > :03:50.allowed to be set up in areas of need. Greater oversight. But a
:03:50. > :03:55.completely different change of tone, we are on the side of parents and
:03:55. > :04:02.social entrepreneurs who want to set these up. A different change. Why
:04:02. > :04:07.are they doing this? On education, so far the debate has been
:04:07. > :04:11.polarised. You've had the Michael Gove uber reformers in the
:04:11. > :04:15.department. This weekend, we've had leaked memos from one of Michael
:04:15. > :04:20.Gove's advisers which are extreme views about the state of education.
:04:20. > :04:26.And on the other side teaching unions. It hasn't led to a healthy
:04:26. > :04:31.debate which represents what parents want out of schools or employers.
:04:31. > :04:35.This is a huge move from the Labour Party to sound more reasonable. They
:04:35. > :04:43.have been silent on education which is a huge policy area on the left.
:04:43. > :04:49.Is this a focus group-driven change? They've seen the polls. Welfare
:04:49. > :04:53.reforms are hugery popular and free schools for those who have them? You
:04:53. > :04:59.only apiece the focus groups by changing the policy substantially. I
:04:59. > :05:03.always thought a test for this Labour reshuffle was not whether Ed
:05:03. > :05:07.Miliband would promote Blair rights, it is clear he did, it is whether
:05:07. > :05:13.they would be allowed to be Blair rights. When Stephen Twigg carried
:05:13. > :05:17.the education portfolio it was clear his own views were closer to the
:05:17. > :05:22.Government than he was allowed to let on. He was constrained. There is
:05:22. > :05:26.no point of giving Tristram Hunt this job if he is not allowed to say
:05:26. > :05:30.what he thinks. I wouldn't mind betting privately he thinks free
:05:30. > :05:36.schools should be available beyond just areas of need. He hasn't yet
:05:37. > :05:41.defined need. It could be, we've run out of places or the existing
:05:41. > :05:51.schools are so bad we need schools. If that is it, it is the same Asics
:05:51. > :05:57.itsing Government policy. In they are in schools rated as
:05:57. > :06:01.unsatisfactory that's no different. He wanted to say he was in favour of
:06:01. > :06:07.higher educational standards and rigour, he had to tell the audience
:06:07. > :06:10.he has a Cambridge PhD to attack Michael Gove. That was difficult for
:06:10. > :06:19.Tristram Hunt he had to mention that. Is that worth something, a PhD
:06:19. > :06:25.from Cambridge? Obviously to him it is. He said they would demand proper
:06:25. > :06:31.teaching qualifications. That could count him out. He does some
:06:31. > :06:37.teaching? Independent schools do not have to have teachers with formal
:06:37. > :06:43.teaching qualifications. I've never been to one? What about you? That
:06:43. > :06:51.decision by Michael Gove to allow free schools to employ nonunionised
:06:51. > :06:55.and non-trained people, so he has to say that.
:06:55. > :06:59.Watch this space. The dust settled after the party resufficients. Do
:06:59. > :07:10.the Tories look a bit more like Britain. Do the Tories look more
:07:10. > :07:15.like Labour? Here's guiles. #4 With reshuffles, you're never
:07:15. > :07:19.really certain. There's whispers, rumours, guesses. But the only way
:07:19. > :07:26.to know it is underway is keeping beady eyes on a front door. Up until
:07:26. > :07:30.now, the only way we knew who was in and who was out was who came walking
:07:30. > :07:35.down this bit of Downing Street with a smile on their face after going to
:07:35. > :07:40.see the boss. The once who are to be sacked, they usually go round the
:07:40. > :07:46.back. Not this time. No, something new alerted us all. The-PM started
:07:46. > :07:51.it. It was an extraordinary day. I can't remember a triple decker
:07:51. > :07:55.reshuffle where you've three parties changing ministerial teams at the
:07:55. > :07:58.same time. The fact is that resufficient happened on Twitter.
:07:58. > :08:04.Not that the press stopped watching the door as well. News was a bit
:08:05. > :08:10.slow in coming until Alastair Charmichael replaced Michael Moore,
:08:10. > :08:13.the first to be pounced on. I'm disappointed to be leaving office
:08:13. > :08:18.now but pleased at what I've been able to achieve in the last couple
:08:18. > :08:22.of years. Not as pleased as one imagines as the man receiving the
:08:22. > :08:34.welcome that went on, and on and on... And on... And on!
:08:34. > :08:39.#4 The welcomer, who was simultaneously having Jeremy Browne,
:08:39. > :08:44.in a sense seen off the premises of the Home Office in conspiracy to let
:08:44. > :08:49.Norman Baker sing a tune. the Home Office in conspiracy to let
:08:50. > :08:53.# Blowing hi Jude through a traffic cone... # #.
:08:53. > :09:02.The brutality of the Liberal Democrats. We tend to think they are
:09:02. > :09:06.herbivorous. Sacking a Cabinet Minister, another minister, Jeremy
:09:06. > :09:11.Browne. By lunch time, the Tory ranks were shifting too. The PM keen
:09:11. > :09:13.to boost the numbers of telegenic women walking into Government and
:09:13. > :09:18.turning perceptions around. He tipped a so-called flatcap to men
:09:18. > :09:23.from the north or more humble backgrounds with room for some which
:09:23. > :09:27.fitted neither label but are friends of George Osborne. And, all the
:09:27. > :09:34.while, those new Tory ministers were learning of Labour's changes. Labour
:09:34. > :09:38.too knows the value of new young blood striding into the limelight.
:09:38. > :09:44.Again some with TV experience of that. Tristram Hunt and Gloria de
:09:44. > :09:49.peer row would be hard to describe as hard left. But Blairbrushing the
:09:49. > :09:56.past out of the picture seemed to be the name of the day. Liam Byrne
:09:56. > :09:59.moved from higher profile roles. With Diane Abbott also gone, was
:09:59. > :10:01.this really a Blair right cull? It depends what you mean. Blair right
:10:01. > :10:05.used to mean someone who wanted Tony depends what you mean. Blair right
:10:05. > :10:08.Blair to be leader of the Labour Party. Somebody who worked closely
:10:08. > :10:13.with him. Now it means sometimes people who believe in a certain set
:10:13. > :10:18.of ideologyies or ideas. There are still very much those kind of Blair
:10:18. > :10:22.rights within the party. But we are seeing the group around Tony Blair
:10:22. > :10:28.are not long assassin flew enjoys as they once were. By evening, it was
:10:28. > :10:33.over. New bees were sharing the spoils of winner while ousted
:10:33. > :10:42.ministers quietly thanked commits raters. Or -- commiserators. Or one
:10:42. > :10:46.angry ex-wife bemoaned their dismissal.
:10:46. > :10:49.Disappointment in politics is disified. How much much someone
:10:49. > :10:56.standing here might want it to be the case, you are unlikely to get
:10:56. > :11:03.someone coming out of that do going "how could." And running off crying!
:11:03. > :11:09.And the brand, spanking new Scottish Secretary Alastair Charmichael joins
:11:09. > :11:16.us from Orkney on a line that hasn't been used since the fleet was used
:11:16. > :11:21.in the outbreak of World War I! I wasn't around at the time. I'm
:11:21. > :11:29.hearing you loud and clear. Why have you agreed to run a department? That
:11:29. > :11:34.you wanted to abolish six years ago? Hello? Maybe our connections are not
:11:34. > :11:38.so great after all. Alastair Charmichael. Can you hear me? I can
:11:38. > :11:43.hear you now. There was a nasty second there where you disappeared.
:11:43. > :11:49.Let me try the question again. Why have you agreed to run a department
:11:49. > :11:53.you wanted to abolish six years ago? Because this is the, probably one of
:11:53. > :11:58.the most important jobs in British politics at the moment. To ensure
:11:58. > :12:05.that Scotland remains part of the UK. Even when I was talking about
:12:05. > :12:09.the reconfiguration of rep sen Taigs of Scotland -- representation of
:12:09. > :12:14.Scotland within Whitehall, there was always a job to be done. That is
:12:14. > :12:18.true in spades now. I will focus on making sure the UK Government has a
:12:18. > :12:22.real voice in that debate. What have you that Michael Moore didn't have?
:12:23. > :12:27.Look, I think Michael Moore did an excellent job. The work he did
:12:27. > :12:33.delivering the Edinburgh agreement to ensure we got a proper, fair,
:12:33. > :12:39.clear legal and decisive referendum, the work delivering extra powers to
:12:39. > :12:44.the Scottish Parliament was a substantial piece of work. I'm not
:12:44. > :12:49.comparing myself to Michael. He's a friend of mine. I will say that as
:12:49. > :12:54.we go forward into this, this is now about the actual debate itself. I
:12:54. > :13:00.will be putting the case, with some passion, I hope, for Scotland to
:13:00. > :13:05.remain part of the UK. This isn't just some abstract debate about
:13:05. > :13:10.nationhood, sovereignty, this is a real debate about people's jobs,
:13:10. > :13:15.their livelihoods, the cost of their mortgage. That and an awful lot
:13:15. > :13:22.more. For that, I relish the challenge. I understand that. But if
:13:22. > :13:29.you're being put in there to save the union, every pole has the no --
:13:29. > :13:34.poll has the no campaign margin alley ahead. Mr Moore was doing
:13:34. > :13:37.pretty well to save the union. I suspect you've been given the job to
:13:37. > :13:44.save the Liberal Democrats in Scotland? And lieu, you misread the
:13:44. > :13:48.situation if you -- Andrew, you misread the situation new think
:13:48. > :13:51.anybody is going to be the person who will save the union. The people
:13:52. > :13:55.who will save the union are the people of Scotland if they turn out
:13:55. > :14:00.next year and vote to save the union. We have to put the case for
:14:00. > :14:06.that. That is what I will be doing. Look at the position of your own
:14:06. > :14:08.party. You came fourth in the last Scottish parentry elections. You
:14:08. > :14:15.party. You came fourth in the last were even behind the Conservatives.
:14:15. > :14:22.The latest poll has you still in fourth. Are you there because you're
:14:22. > :14:26.a bruiser and you will pep up the Liberal Democrats opportunity in
:14:26. > :14:28.Scotland. If I had a pound for everybody to referred to me as being
:14:28. > :14:33.Scotland. If I had a pound for a bruiser, I wouldn't need to be
:14:33. > :14:37.sitting here this morning. I could have retired by now. The truth of
:14:37. > :14:43.this, if I can address it once and for all, I have done probably one of
:14:43. > :14:46.the most complex and subtle jobs in British politics for the last
:14:46. > :14:49.three-and-a-half years, Liberal Democrat Chief Whip in a Coalition
:14:49. > :14:53.Government. I would not have survived in that job a week, let
:14:53. > :14:57.alone three-and-a-half years, if I was the sort of person who went
:14:57. > :15:02.around picking unnecessary fights. So, can we just please forget about
:15:02. > :15:08.this business about being a bruiser. As far as the position of the party
:15:08. > :15:10.in the polls, this is true also of the referendum vote, opinion polls
:15:10. > :15:13.in the polls, this is true also of are a snapshot. They are not a
:15:13. > :15:19.prediction of what will happen in the future. I will be out there
:15:19. > :15:23.putting the case. Neither the next election nor the referendum is one
:15:23. > :15:28.or lost yet. One of the things I really want to be guarding against
:15:28. > :15:33.is the complacency which says because we are a good margin ahead
:15:33. > :15:35.today, 12 months out from the actual polling day, that it is in the bag.
:15:36. > :15:43.today, 12 months out from the actual Believe me, Andrew, it is not. As
:15:43. > :15:46.you know, wasn't for the Liberal Democrats. Not just talking about
:15:46. > :15:51.the polls. You came fourth in the real poll in the Scottish
:15:51. > :15:56.Parliamentary elections. You said you were happy to facial
:15:56. > :16:04.ex-Salmond in a TV debade. Should David Cameron face him? I am happy
:16:04. > :16:09.ex-Salmond in a TV debade. Should to face anybody who wants to
:16:09. > :16:17.debate. Should David Cameron face him? No, because that allows Alex
:16:17. > :16:21.Salmond and the Scottish Nationalists to portray this as some
:16:22. > :16:26.sort of contest or choice between a vision of Scottish social democracy
:16:26. > :16:31.and English conservativism, which it is not. This is a debate that has to
:16:31. > :16:39.be held in Scotland about the future of Scotland amongst Scots. David
:16:39. > :16:44.Cameron has a very important part in Scotland's public life, but he is
:16:44. > :16:48.not Scottish and I think he will accept Commies edit himself in fact,
:16:48. > :16:54.the person who should be debating with Alex Salmond is Alistair
:16:54. > :16:58.Darling. He has got a Scottish name and his family hails from the
:16:58. > :17:05.wealthiest of Scotland at some stage in the past. Anyway, you described
:17:05. > :17:11.the campaign to keep the union together as lacking passion, were
:17:11. > :17:18.you referring to the campaign or Alistair Darling? I was not
:17:18. > :17:25.referring to Alistair Darling. I think what I was saying is that as
:17:25. > :17:32.we move into this new stage, and Alistair Darling said it himself, we
:17:32. > :17:38.are now campaigning for people 's hearts because if you look at the
:17:38. > :17:44.range of papers the Government has published, it is pretty clear the
:17:44. > :17:54.arguments lie in relation to the head. I am not giving up the battle
:17:55. > :17:59.for the hearts and Scotland because there is a good strong case, as
:17:59. > :18:05.somebody who is proud to be Scottish and to be British, for Scotland to
:18:05. > :18:10.remain part of the UK. You come from an island that has eight
:18:10. > :18:15.distilleries and I understand you haven't even had a single
:18:16. > :18:23.celebratory drink for your new post. Not a drop has touched my lips. Not
:18:23. > :18:28.supporting local business! I will be making up for lost time on the 1st
:18:28. > :18:32.of November, I will be doing it in aid of Macmillan Cancer care and if
:18:32. > :18:37.anybody wants to go to their website, they can donate. It is
:18:37. > :18:46.worthwhile. I cannot think of a better cause. One Cabinet minister
:18:46. > :18:52.who many thought might get Reef -- we shuffled but didn't is Ken
:18:52. > :18:56.Clarke. Welcome to Sunday Politics. This reshuffle was about new blood,
:18:56. > :19:04.more women and more ethnic minorities, where did you fit in? I
:19:04. > :19:10.would describe myself as the elder statesman, to be polite, but it is
:19:10. > :19:15.difficult to replace them. I enjoy it. It is a great privilege to have
:19:15. > :19:20.a role in Cabinet and I will carry on as long as David wants me to do.
:19:20. > :19:25.I have seen many reshuffles, they are dreadful and I seem to have
:19:25. > :19:31.survived them so far. Did David Cameron talk to you before this
:19:31. > :19:38.reshuffle? No, he didn't. I would have had expected a phone call,
:19:38. > :19:48.asking, how do you think about stepping down, but he didn't and my
:19:49. > :19:52.role is one of giving my wit and wisdom to the Cabinet and meetings
:19:53. > :19:57.of the Security Council so he has got to put up with me a bit longer.
:19:57. > :20:04.You said you are going to stand again at the next election, why do
:20:04. > :20:09.you keep going? What do you hope to achieve in politics? I am mostly a
:20:09. > :20:14.political anorak, I have been since I was very small, by the process of
:20:14. > :20:18.politics but the older I get I get more concerned about the good
:20:18. > :20:21.governance of the country and at the moment the combination of problems
:20:21. > :20:27.is quite appalling. The difficulty of tackling the modern world is very
:20:27. > :20:31.difficult and I find it fascinating. The old argument that attracts every
:20:31. > :20:36.decent person into politics, you might be able sometimes to make a
:20:36. > :20:41.bit of difference, and I try to do that. I try not to hark back on my
:20:41. > :20:44.experience but we will have a lot of tough problems which I think the
:20:44. > :20:51.Conservative Government will have to tackle. You opposed referenda on
:20:52. > :20:58.Maastricht, the Lisbon Treaty, you were even against one on Britain
:20:58. > :21:05.adopting the euro. It must follow that you are against the referenda
:21:05. > :21:08.on Britain's membership to the EU? I am always for holding people
:21:08. > :21:11.accountable to the long-term and medium term consequences of
:21:11. > :21:16.decisions they take as representatives, but this is a
:21:16. > :21:20.generational thing. I am in a minority now and my colleagues have
:21:20. > :21:24.firmly decided a referendum needs to be held to settle the question of
:21:24. > :21:29.Britain's relationship with the European Union which I think is one
:21:29. > :21:33.of the most important things in politics. It will determine
:21:33. > :21:37.Britain's place in the modern world and determine whether our
:21:37. > :21:39.politicians are able to look after the living standards, the economy,
:21:39. > :21:46.the safety against terrorism. Last the living standards, the economy,
:21:46. > :21:54.summer you said that only extreme nationalists wanted a silly EU
:21:54. > :21:59.referendum. It follows your party must be full of extremely silly
:21:59. > :22:04.nationalists. The people who are desperate to have a referendum are
:22:04. > :22:08.all the people who actually want to leave the European Union. The
:22:08. > :22:13.referendum will involve the public and people like me have got to get
:22:13. > :22:18.across to the public, don't just feel angry about the last thing you
:22:18. > :22:23.read in the newspaper about what the commission is or is not doing, do
:22:23. > :22:30.bear in mind this is our base in the modern world. We happen to be a
:22:30. > :22:33.leading member, almost as valuable and rich as the Americans, from
:22:33. > :22:39.there we can have a greater influence in events. That is not
:22:39. > :22:44.just how the politicians get on the world stage, it is how the
:22:44. > :22:49.politicians look after us when we face danger from terrorism is
:22:49. > :22:53.spilling over from the Middle East, or we face public services being
:22:53. > :23:00.threatened. You didn't even turn up to vote for the bill which will give
:23:00. > :23:05.us a referendum. I had other engagements on the Friday concerned.
:23:05. > :23:08.It seemed to get through without my participation. You didn't want to be
:23:08. > :23:16.seen voting for something your heart is not in. Let's be honest here.
:23:16. > :23:25.Look, many of your colleagues I have interviewed say that if the choice
:23:25. > :23:30.was between the state -- the status quo with the European Union and
:23:30. > :23:34.leaving, they would leave. The truth is that you would vote to stay in
:23:34. > :23:42.even on the status quo, wouldn't you? I haven't spent so long
:23:42. > :23:46.supporting the EU to leave now if I got chance. I think our economy is
:23:46. > :23:52.much stronger than it would have been if we were outside the EU. We
:23:52. > :23:56.have continued attracting investment, as in Washington last
:23:56. > :24:04.week. We are trying to roll forward the prospect of free trade and I
:24:04. > :24:09.have to reassure Americans that we are not likely to leave the EU to
:24:09. > :24:16.make sure they will invest here. That is true but it also needs
:24:16. > :24:22.reform. The cry for reform, which is echoed in other countries,
:24:22. > :24:26.particularly Germany, is a good one. Even if David Cameron came back with
:24:26. > :24:34.nothing from Brussels, you would still vote to stay in, correct?
:24:34. > :24:39.Going off to be a small economy, and one which is dwindling in comparison
:24:39. > :24:42.with others, in the modern world it would be dangerous. I also think the
:24:42. > :24:46.dangers of the Middle East and the dangers of some of the countries
:24:46. > :24:50.between EU and Russia are considerable, we shouldn't
:24:50. > :24:55.disengage. I will take that as a yes. I do think reform can
:24:55. > :24:59.strengthen the case, and of some members of the public don't agree
:24:59. > :25:04.with me, I trust they will be persuaded when David delivers his
:25:04. > :25:09.reforms. The latest poll gives Labour a ten point lead over the
:25:09. > :25:11.Tories and the reason why it has a ten point lead is because UKIP are
:25:11. > :25:17.up there with 18% of the vote and ten point lead is because UKIP are
:25:17. > :25:21.the Tory vote has slumped in the Paul to 27%. How would you see off
:25:21. > :25:27.UKIP? By saying you need a strong Paul to 27%. How would you see off
:25:27. > :25:35.and effective Government. We faced terrible problems. Every Government
:25:35. > :25:39.I have been in has been behind in the polls. This Government is not as
:25:39. > :25:43.popular as the previous Government I have served in under the three
:25:44. > :25:47.previous prime ministers. When you get an election, people have to ask
:25:47. > :25:54.themselves who do we want to decide the issues of war and peace in this
:25:54. > :26:00.country? Who do we want to get us out of our economic problems. I
:26:00. > :26:05.don't think Ed Miliband is up to it. That generalised stuff will not see
:26:05. > :26:11.off UKIP. People will not listen to that. When people answer an opinion
:26:11. > :26:17.poll, they tell you how annoyed they are by something that has recently
:26:17. > :26:21.upset them, but people are more sensible than this. Every Government
:26:22. > :26:29.I have served in has been behind in the polls. At a general election you
:26:29. > :26:37.have to mobilise the public to start thinking, who do we want to govern
:26:38. > :26:42.us? They did take over a calamitous situation, and there are very
:26:42. > :26:49.important problems to be decided going forward. UKIP represents
:26:49. > :26:53.anti-immigration, anti-foreigners, anti-Europe, anti-politics but I
:26:53. > :27:00.don't think it will get 18% of the opinion -- the polls in any
:27:00. > :27:25.election. Thank you. Once upon a time, a
:27:25. > :27:28.politician whose career ended in disgrace might choose to lie low for
:27:28. > :27:32.a while, perhaps to spend a bit more time tending the tulips and doing
:27:32. > :27:35.the odd bit of charity work. Not Chris Huhne. He walked free from
:27:35. > :27:39.prison only five months ago but the former Energy Secretary is already
:27:39. > :27:42.back in the public eye - a column in the Guardian, a job with a renewable
:27:42. > :27:44.energy firm, even the odd TV interview. So is he working on a
:27:44. > :27:47.political rehabilitation? Chris Huhne, welcome to the Sunday
:27:47. > :27:49.Politics. The answer to that is clearly know, and thank you for
:27:49. > :27:52.inviting me back. You have set your career in politics is over so what
:27:52. > :27:58.does the future hold for you? I am happy doing what I am doing, I am
:27:58. > :28:04.passionate about green energy and climate change, so I am doing things
:28:04. > :28:07.on that front in terms of business and work for think tanks and
:28:07. > :28:12.non-governmental organisations, and I am doing a column for the Guardian
:28:13. > :28:20.on Mondays. You obviously get a lot of material from the Sunday Politics
:28:20. > :28:24.to write about. Have you embarked on political rehabilitation? It was
:28:24. > :28:28.clear from the point of view of the George when I was sentenced, he
:28:28. > :28:33.said, this is not about rehabilitating you, because I had
:28:33. > :28:34.not offended for ten years, it was actually about stopping people like
:28:34. > :28:40.not offended for ten years, it was you, Andrew, Ron doing the same
:28:40. > :28:46.thing. It was a deterrent effect for the public. That is I think why the
:28:46. > :28:49.prosecution was brought. I had not offended for ten years on this,
:28:49. > :28:56.either in terms of speeding points... But you are out to
:28:56. > :29:17.rehabilitate yourself in the public? I have been a journalist,
:29:17. > :29:21.rehabilitate yourself in the public? coalition to the bitter end? Or
:29:21. > :29:24.should they re-establish their own identity? My view is that the
:29:24. > :29:31.Coalition agreement is for the whole Parliament, and the Lib Dems are
:29:31. > :29:37.going to stay, and should stay. What would be a good result for the Lib
:29:37. > :29:42.Dems in 2015? The loss of ten, 15 seats? I think it will be an
:29:42. > :29:47.interesting election because I think you will have essentially three
:29:47. > :29:50.party leaders, all of whom are unpopular. It is almost
:29:50. > :29:56.unprecedented that they have negative ratings so it will be a
:29:56. > :30:02.battle between the walking wounded. In those circumstances, in my view,
:30:02. > :30:11.the Lib Dems can come out very well. But you will lose seats, won't
:30:11. > :30:16.you? It is far too early to say. If the Liberal Democrats do badly in
:30:16. > :30:21.next year's European elections, you could come fourth on fifth behind
:30:21. > :30:27.the Greens. Will Nick Clegg's leadership be in jeopardy? I've been
:30:27. > :30:33.in countless cycles where we've had very low poll ratings. The normal
:30:34. > :30:39.pickup to the subsequent general election on average has been 10
:30:39. > :30:42.percentage points. So he's not in jeopardy? I think Nick will be there
:30:42. > :30:46.at the next general election. I think he'll lead the party into the
:30:46. > :30:53.next general election. I expect we'll do much better than most
:30:53. > :30:55.people think. If we are heading for another hung Parliament, which is
:30:55. > :31:00.what the Liberal Democrats want. Let's be honest, you'd rather be in
:31:00. > :31:04.coalition with the Labour Party than have a repeat of the Conservatives?
:31:04. > :31:09.One of the key things I sawed to colleagues, whatever your personal
:31:09. > :31:13.preference, I used to be a Labour Party member, you can derive from
:31:13. > :31:20.that I'm on the left of centre of the party. I always said to my
:31:20. > :31:20.colleagues in the party, it is absolutely crucial to remember that
:31:20. > :31:23.colleagues in the party, it is the we are in politics because we
:31:23. > :31:27.are Liberal Democrats, not because we are either Conservatives or
:31:27. > :31:30.second best Labour. If you don't take that view, you don't have any
:31:30. > :32:07.bargaining position when it You said you are keeping up your
:32:07. > :32:12.interest in energy matters. Is Ed Miliband right to promise a
:32:12. > :32:17.temporary price freeze with Mike we have posturing on energy prices. It
:32:17. > :32:23.is not essential policy. It was tried in California in 2001, one of
:32:23. > :32:28.the factors which led to blackout. We have the Prime Minister promising
:32:28. > :32:33.we should shift everyone onto the lowest possible tariff which would
:32:33. > :32:39.mean all the big six on one tariff, so we are getting populist
:32:39. > :32:45.claptrap. So you are against the price freeze? It is a bad idea when
:32:45. > :32:49.we are trying to encourage investment and when the market can
:32:49. > :32:56.give us some of the lowest gas and liquidity prices in Europe. Britain
:32:56. > :33:00.has some of the lowest. The other European prices are only higher
:33:00. > :33:05.because they put more taxes on it. Base prices are among the highest in
:33:05. > :33:09.Europe. If you look at new comparisons in terms of what goes
:33:09. > :33:15.out to households, the reality... That is after taxes. Conservatives
:33:15. > :33:21.claim there are taxes being put on our energy. You are one of the
:33:21. > :33:27.people responsible for long ring us with these taxes which are adding
:33:27. > :33:32.over £100 to the average build. Why don't you cut some of these taxes
:33:32. > :33:35.and make it cheaper? That is nonsense and that is coming from
:33:35. > :33:40.people like George Osborne who should know better, because one
:33:40. > :33:43.hypocrisy of this is that the one person in the government who has
:33:43. > :33:51.added green taxes was George Osborne with that carbon price floor. We put
:33:51. > :33:56.it into the coalition agreement because the Conservatives wanted it.
:33:56. > :34:00.The Lib Dems did not want it, we do not needed to drive
:34:00. > :34:07.decarbonisation, it was a revenue raising measure by the Tories and it
:34:07. > :34:15.set of a load of hair is about green taxes which are now coming home to
:34:15. > :34:20.roost. You are a big supporter of Leveson style press regulation, so
:34:20. > :34:25.will you stop writing for the Guardian if it refuses to sign up to
:34:25. > :34:32.the charter? I think that is neither here nor there. The Guardian is a
:34:32. > :34:37.great platform. If it doesn't sign up to what you believe in, will you
:34:37. > :34:43.stop supporting it? I am sure they will let me make that point. I think
:34:43. > :34:46.newspapers will sign up to it because they have a collapse in
:34:46. > :34:52.public trust and confidence unparalleled for every other
:34:52. > :34:56.business. They need a third-party endorsement to say they have cleaned
:34:56. > :35:01.up their act and the going to get trust back, and they will. When they
:35:01. > :35:08.haven't signed up, you can come back and talk about it. You are watching
:35:08. > :35:11.Sunday Politics. Good morning, and welcome to Sunday Politics Scotland.
:35:11. > :35:15.Coming up on the programme: More from the new Secretary of State for
:35:15. > :35:21.Scotland and the challenges facing him over the next year.
:35:21. > :35:25.And is this just a nostalgic anthem from the '80s? Or 25 years on, has
:35:25. > :35:31.there been such a dramatic change in Scotland's industrial landscape?
:35:31. > :35:34.Alistair Carmichael is the UK government's new man in Scotland, or
:35:34. > :35:38.Scotland's new man in the UK Government, depending on your
:35:38. > :35:41.viewpoint. As he gets to grips with the job, Mr Carmichael will be
:35:41. > :35:53.assessing the challenges ahead. So what are they? Andrew Kerr reports.
:35:53. > :35:58.The office of Secretary of State for Scotland doesn't often make it into
:35:58. > :36:05.the new key news, let alone comedy shows. There was another man
:36:05. > :36:08.promoted in this reshuffle, Alistair Carmichael who is now Secretary of
:36:08. > :36:13.State for Scotland, and I would remember his name, anyone who
:36:13. > :36:20.watches pointless, because in 18 months he will be an answer.
:36:20. > :36:25.Alistair Carmichael has been passed over twice that now he has the job,
:36:25. > :36:30.he is Chief Whip, in that position he would not be known to the public,
:36:30. > :36:34.that is behind-the-scenes and any Chief Whip would find that, but now
:36:34. > :36:40.he will be in the spotlight and be interested to see what he does.
:36:40. > :36:45.Third time lucky perhaps, a Secretary of State who can last the
:36:45. > :36:49.course. After moving on from Nick Clegg, he is getting to grips with
:36:49. > :36:55.his office and the challenges he faces, especially how the referendum
:36:55. > :37:01.debate is directed. I think his main challenge in the next 12 months is
:37:01. > :37:09.to argue the case for the union from a perhaps more colourful or in a
:37:09. > :37:16.more colourful way than it has been argued so far. I think Carmichael
:37:16. > :37:25.will need to bring into the argument for the union in Scotland the other
:37:25. > :37:29.parts of the UK. At the Royal heart of the UK, the Scottish secretary
:37:29. > :37:33.had his first front row engagement at Buckingham Palace this week for
:37:33. > :37:38.the Batten relay. In the referendum race, he is running side-by-side
:37:38. > :37:44.with Labour and Tory colleagues and will have to form close relations
:37:44. > :37:47.with key figures in Better Together. He will also have to manage
:37:47. > :37:55.perceptions of visiting UK ministers. He has clearly clocked
:37:55. > :37:58.what the problem is, which is having ministers like Philip Hammond
:37:58. > :38:03.appearing to give lectures to Scots on how they should run their
:38:03. > :38:08.affairs, but saying he. These lecture tours is one thing. Delivery
:38:08. > :38:12.is another, and I don't think he will be able to stop George Osborne
:38:12. > :38:17.giving Scots lectures on whether they can use the pound after
:38:17. > :38:24.independence. Perhaps that is a mountain to climb of though that
:38:24. > :38:28.brings its own problems. Challenge three, how to reconcile long-held
:38:28. > :38:33.political views in the context of the referendum debate. Liberal
:38:33. > :38:39.Democrats have been Federalists for a long time. They have argued that
:38:39. > :38:43.the constitution needs to move on and more powers should be given to
:38:43. > :38:48.Scotland, so it will be interesting to see what role he plays in the
:38:48. > :38:54.debate. Well he pushes Tory colleagues at Westminster to come up
:38:54. > :38:57.with a scheme to make some kind of concrete alternative to
:38:57. > :39:01.independence, so I think he may be caught between a rock and a hard
:39:01. > :39:07.place between David Cameron and Alex Salmond. There are plenty of issues
:39:07. > :39:12.for Mr Carmichael to grapple with. He has a year to get them right. If
:39:12. > :39:20.he doesn't, he could be out of a job. In our Orkney studio is the man
:39:20. > :39:25.himself. Good afternoon. You talked earlier about putting passion in the
:39:25. > :39:30.debate. At the Scottish office been too conciliatory with the SNP and
:39:30. > :39:36.the Scottish Government? We have a day-to-day job to do in terms of
:39:36. > :39:40.managing Scotland's reputation in Whitehall and Westminster, so in
:39:40. > :39:46.that you have to be considered very, but in the wider little debate, we
:39:46. > :39:52.are entering a new phase. We are now in the countdown to the day which
:39:52. > :39:57.matters and I think all parties need to put more spark and passion into
:39:57. > :40:01.this debate, but let me be clear. This is not just about politicians,
:40:01. > :40:07.because politicians are alone cannot run this debating. We need to hear
:40:07. > :40:12.from teachers, nurses, doctors, lawyers, from business people, from
:40:12. > :40:17.people looking to start up their own business, the widest possible range
:40:17. > :40:21.of people in Scotland have got to find a voice in this debating which
:40:21. > :40:26.I don't think we have had yet. When that happens you will see more
:40:26. > :40:31.colour coming into the debate. Why do you think they have not been
:40:31. > :40:35.taking part in the debate? Has been bogged down in political
:40:35. > :40:44.technicalities? I think the debate has been ridiculously prolonged. I
:40:44. > :40:49.feel as if this is already gone on my entire adult life and we still
:40:49. > :40:54.have 12 months until we get to the polling booth. I would not have
:40:54. > :41:02.foreseen the need for a campaign of this length. That was Alex
:41:02. > :41:10.Salmond's choice, not ours. I don't know that politicians necessarily
:41:11. > :41:15.can do with an their own, but need to bring in a wider range of people
:41:15. > :41:20.and I really want the widest possible range. I had a lunch with
:41:20. > :41:23.businessmen in Edinburgh who all told me they had real concerns about
:41:24. > :41:28.what could happen if we did vote yes. I think they need to stop
:41:29. > :41:36.telling me that and start telling the rest of the country. Why hasn't
:41:36. > :41:39.that happened? I think it will happen now as mines concentrate
:41:39. > :41:44.closer to the day. If there is a yes vote, you follow on from what
:41:44. > :41:49.Michael Morris said, that that would be your moment to start negotiating
:41:50. > :41:55.for Scotland? I fight for Scotland every day, and I have done. What
:41:55. > :42:01.would be your position after a yes vote? I would take the same
:42:01. > :42:08.position. I see no real need to move from that, but that is a hypothesis
:42:08. > :42:14.on top of a supposition. What we need to be doing is instead of
:42:14. > :42:20.coming up with a fantasy structure about how we would negotiate after a
:42:20. > :42:27.yes vote, we ought to be getting in there, having the debate, explaining
:42:27. > :42:32.the issues about jobs, mortgages, the role we can have in the rest of
:42:32. > :42:36.the world, rather than obsessing with things that might interest
:42:36. > :42:43.journalists and politicians but are not what concern the public. Some of
:42:43. > :42:46.those issues were raised by your Cabinet colleagues when they came
:42:46. > :42:51.north recently. Which of them have been arrogant in the way they
:42:51. > :42:55.delivered their message? Less top put words in my mouth. I never said
:42:55. > :43:05.anyone had been arrogant when they came north. You accept that, surely.
:43:05. > :43:14.Sorry, I've just lost any sound. Can you still hear me? I can hear you
:43:14. > :43:21.again. Can I just explain this question about arrogance. What I was
:43:21. > :43:27.talking about when I said we shouldn't all we see coming to
:43:27. > :43:31.Scotland as a lecture tour is that a great deal is happening in Scotland
:43:31. > :43:38.from which they can learn, and one very small example, the reader may
:43:38. > :43:43.was talking this week about the National crime agency -- Theresa
:43:43. > :43:48.May. Opportunities to tackle organised crime across the UK is an
:43:48. > :43:54.important argument in this referendum, but she also said this
:43:54. > :44:00.is something that could be used to tackle gang violence. I said to her
:44:00. > :44:04.that is great, there is a great story about what Strathclyde Police
:44:04. > :44:10.were doing in Glasgow in tackling gang violence, so please come up,
:44:10. > :44:14.hear what they are doing and be ready to take it away and
:44:14. > :44:22.implemented or to borrow on our experience. We are all still part of
:44:22. > :44:28.the UK, and she said she knew about that work, and she had had
:44:28. > :44:30.Strathclyde Police don't, but there was a chance for her to come to
:44:30. > :44:38.Scotland in future. Has Whitehall got it wrong when it
:44:38. > :44:42.talks about things like fast lane still being part of the geographical
:44:42. > :44:50.rest of the UK if Scotland voted yes? I think perhaps we occasionally
:44:50. > :44:56.have opened up an opportunity of ourselves or our opponents, rather,
:44:56. > :45:02.to portray us in a negative light. But I think if you look across the
:45:02. > :45:08.piece, five or six papers, there has been a substantial well referenced
:45:08. > :45:12.pieces of work and I think that actually you can contrast that very
:45:12. > :45:18.well with the approach that is being taken to the campaign by the yes
:45:18. > :45:22.campaign which has been simple -- simply to assert things left, right
:45:22. > :45:26.and centre. I go back to my time working as a lawyer. It is the
:45:26. > :45:31.moment that every lawyer dreads which is when the sheriff pulls the
:45:32. > :45:36.glasses down over his nose and says, what is your authority for that
:45:36. > :45:42.proposition Mr Carmichael? The SNP, when they are asserting a position,
:45:42. > :45:46.have got no authority. They say similar things about the papers that
:45:46. > :45:50.Westminster producers. The White Paper is coming out. It is therefore
:45:50. > :45:58.people to judge for themselves. He talked earlier in your interview...
:45:58. > :46:02.You talked about your previous job as chief whip being complex and
:46:02. > :46:07.subtle. What sort of subtleties will you bring to the White Paper when it
:46:07. > :46:11.comes out from the Scottish Government as that will be a big bit
:46:11. > :46:19.of work? I am losing a feed so did not quite the question. In terms of
:46:19. > :46:24.the White Paper, it remains to be seen what is in it, I hope it is
:46:24. > :46:31.more substantial than everything we have seen from the campaign so far
:46:31. > :46:35.but I am not holding good faith. I get the feeling that as we enter the
:46:35. > :46:41.next 12 months in terms of this being a battle between the arguments
:46:41. > :46:48.of the head and of the heart, in terms of the arguments of the head,
:46:48. > :46:55.then we are in a dominant position. Will there be a united front from
:46:55. > :46:56.your party and your Better Together partners on what happens if there is
:46:56. > :47:03.your party and your Better Together a no vote? I hope there will be a
:47:03. > :47:11.united front in as much as we will all recognise that the clear will of
:47:11. > :47:15.the Scottish people, that there should be extra powers... Will you
:47:15. > :47:21.be bringing them together to get a united position? That is an
:47:21. > :47:25.important part of it and also I would like to see the SNP as part of
:47:25. > :47:30.that, because they have an important voice, an important role to play. If
:47:30. > :47:34.you look back over the recent history, the SNP have always said on
:47:34. > :47:40.the Constitutional Convention, we don't want to be part of that, we
:47:41. > :47:43.are only interested in independence. On the commission that delivered
:47:43. > :47:47.substantial extra powers to the parliament, they said exactly the
:47:47. > :47:51.same sort of thing again. This time, once we have settled the
:47:51. > :47:58.independence question, there will be no other way for the SNP to go. They
:47:58. > :48:04.will have to be part... In regards to people you are working with... I
:48:04. > :48:10.just want to ask, we are running out of time. Liberal home rule, I think
:48:10. > :48:15.there will be a healthy influence and I welcome their participation.
:48:15. > :48:21.Will there be a united position from the parties in Better Together ahead
:48:21. > :48:29.of the referendum? You have to ask the other parties as well as the
:48:29. > :48:32.might -- as well as myself. You will have a united position in as much as
:48:33. > :48:38.there will be a wish to see extra powers, I do believe that. I don't
:48:38. > :48:44.believe that you can -- don't think you can expect a specification of
:48:44. > :48:48.what is powers will be. That is a process we will have to go through
:48:48. > :48:54.once we have settled the independence question. Thank you for
:48:54. > :48:58.joining us and thank you for bearing with us over the technical glitches.
:48:58. > :49:02.Thank you. Last night, the Proclaimers played
:49:02. > :49:09.Glasgow landmark 25 years since they broke through with Letter From
:49:09. > :49:14.America. Is linked the Highland Clearances with the industrial
:49:15. > :49:16.shutdown of the Thatcher era. We looked at the towns that are
:49:16. > :49:28.supposed to be no more. We are still singing passionately
:49:28. > :49:33.about industrial devastation in a song inspired by Tessa at Highland
:49:33. > :49:38.has been cleared off their land. It was the painting that I thought
:49:38. > :49:43.about. It was the contrast with that, obviously with the Clearances
:49:43. > :49:50.of the 19th century and what was happening in the late 70s and 80s.
:49:50. > :49:53.That is where it came from. Those -- it could have been many towns. It
:49:53. > :50:00.could have been Kilmarnock come that. Those towns either had very
:50:00. > :50:06.heavy job losses suddenly or unemployment blackspot and work
:50:06. > :50:11.exploiting a lot of people. Those four sounded better going together
:50:11. > :50:15.than others. That was 25 years ago. What has happened since? What does
:50:15. > :50:23.it tell us about the Scottish economy? Figure two. -- let's take a
:50:23. > :50:27.tour. Bathgate. I went to the site of a
:50:27. > :50:35.plant where thousands of workers made trucks and tractors to hear
:50:35. > :50:42.from locals. We knew what was going to happen. As closing the same
:50:42. > :50:50.time. It was devastating. In fact, the unemployment rate went up to
:50:50. > :50:58.about 25% in some areas. I dismember a civil servant at that time saying
:50:58. > :51:00.to me, Mr Swan, -- I remember a civil servant. I can set up an
:51:00. > :51:08.infrastructure that will allow us to civil servant. I can set up an
:51:08. > :51:13.get more work back in full and will employ your sons and daughters. That
:51:13. > :51:19.is what happened. But it took us 15 years to balance the economy out
:51:19. > :51:25.again. The actual jobs came here, most left again. The rail line to
:51:25. > :51:30.Edinburgh reopened. I think that may have made a big difference,
:51:30. > :51:37.certainly after the factory closing, the link was established in
:51:37. > :51:41.1986 to Edinburgh. Many of the people use Bathgate as a commuter
:51:41. > :51:47.town, like the suburbs of London, people live here and it is more
:51:47. > :51:55.affordable housing and Glasgow or Edinburgh. Not far from here, is
:51:55. > :52:03.Broxburn. The meat... So biggest closure that we have seen. All of
:52:03. > :52:07.the interesting factors is that the workforce were from Poland and
:52:07. > :52:12.Lithuania and Estonia. In ways that few could have foreseen before the
:52:12. > :52:17.Iron Curtain came down, that helps ensure that the tide of immigration
:52:17. > :52:23.out of Scotland has been turned. What about the Linwood? It is home
:52:23. > :52:28.to a car factory, birthplace of the humble Imp. On that site, the
:52:28. > :52:34.Phoenix business Park, risen from the ashes and tells us a lot about
:52:34. > :52:40.the modern economy. Where they made cars, there are now 18 dealerships.
:52:40. > :52:44.My father worked here. Of course, the Proclaimers song when they sung
:52:44. > :52:49.Linwood no more, it's resonated with me. That was a tragic time all of
:52:49. > :52:55.the families around here. I saw my father go downhill in a year, he was
:52:55. > :52:58.unemployed. I saw him aged ten or 15 years. I always felt I wanted to
:52:58. > :53:03.have my own business so I could in some way be of control -- in control
:53:04. > :53:10.of my destiny and so I could look at a team of people and make sure they
:53:10. > :53:16.don't have to go through this. On this site, there are probably 4000
:53:16. > :53:19.that worked here at the time. I think I should write to the
:53:19. > :53:25.Proclaimers and tell them there is a Linwood. Where next? Used to five.
:53:26. > :53:31.This is where they used to ship coal from Fife and then they built
:53:31. > :53:36.jackets for North Sea platforms until this yard went silent. Then
:53:36. > :53:42.came a second wind from North Sea oil and gas and a new wave of
:53:42. > :53:47.renewable energy. So, methyl no more, far from it. This looks like a
:53:47. > :53:51.next big thing in the Scottish economy. This was a successful you
:53:51. > :53:57.are operated by many different companies. The yard was lying empty
:53:57. > :54:01.for about seven years. Since then, with renewables and oil and gas, we
:54:02. > :54:07.have generated employment for around 800 people with potential to
:54:07. > :54:10.increase. This is 12,000 tonnes of oil platform bound for deep water,
:54:10. > :54:16.there are apprentices being taken on, but the welding skills, they had
:54:17. > :54:21.to hire from Poland. A test turbine is being put in by Samsung which
:54:21. > :54:27.hopes to build more of them. Renewables are very important. We
:54:27. > :54:31.will probably be Europe's leader in terms of manufacture of jackets for
:54:31. > :54:36.offshore wind, we have an ambition to build new factories here and have
:54:36. > :54:43.the capacity to build 150 jackets a year. What is delaying things?
:54:43. > :54:47.Scottish independence, uncertainty, approval with EEM R and a clear
:54:47. > :54:52.understanding of what is going to happen with renewables in the
:54:52. > :54:56.future. Irvin in Ayrshire was the final town that was supposed to be
:54:56. > :55:01.no more and it was a new town, it was not so much bigger dishes
:55:01. > :55:04.clearing out, it was its young people who relax jobs. One went off
:55:04. > :55:10.to Glasgow to study law. She was back recently to campaign for
:55:10. > :55:17.independence. Irvin was the big metropolis, it was where you went on
:55:17. > :55:20.a Saturday night. Went to the leisure centre which when I was
:55:21. > :55:29.growing up was the first of its kind in Scotland. At the time of the
:55:29. > :55:33.Proclaimers song, I was about 18. So when they were singing about your
:55:33. > :55:41.town being no more, did that ring true to you? In a way. I had already
:55:41. > :55:45.joined the SNP by then and the Proclaimers delivered this anthem
:55:45. > :55:50.for the age. Unemployment was high and one of the things I strongly
:55:51. > :55:54.from being at school was this fear of unemployment, because as I
:55:54. > :55:58.remember it back then, unemployment was something that was terminal. If
:55:58. > :56:07.you did not get a job or you lost a job, or it felt as if there could be
:56:07. > :56:17.no hope of getting another one. How do you feel about opportunities now?
:56:17. > :56:25.I think there are opportunities in Irvin. The council are working hard
:56:25. > :56:32.to make sure that there are economic it -- opportunities here. There is a
:56:32. > :56:36.big Pharma company. Epic life sciences -- a big life sciences
:56:36. > :56:41.presents. For someone like my nephew, he is interested in
:56:41. > :56:45.sciences, there are opportunities. The town centre regeneration fits
:56:45. > :56:50.into this journey through Scotland and the time. What I have found is
:56:50. > :56:54.an economy and people who have shown flexibility and resilience. We are
:56:54. > :56:58.more skilled and more resourceful. Government made a difference through
:56:58. > :57:02.building infrastructure for new ones. People have become more mobile
:57:02. > :57:07.around the country and between countries. I think the song has
:57:07. > :57:08.aged, there is no doubt about that. The world is different. Scotland
:57:08. > :57:14.aged, there is no doubt about that. thankfully is a better place. I
:57:14. > :57:18.think it feels more modern, it feels like it attitudes have moved on in
:57:18. > :57:22.terms of things. But in terms of people being able to get work, I
:57:22. > :57:30.wonder how much difference there is. My kids now, leaving school, trying
:57:30. > :57:52.to get full-time work is very difficult.
:57:52. > :57:59.Dreamy today is the economic commentator Alf Young and the
:57:59. > :58:05.Economist Ailsa McKay from Glasgow can and university. Alf Young,
:58:05. > :58:09.unemployment whited those areas but when we see the regeneration, the
:58:09. > :58:11.change in the workforce, could it be argued as some said that
:58:11. > :58:19.unemployment was a price worth paying? I think it took a very long
:58:19. > :58:23.time to pay that price and a lot of people never really recovered from
:58:23. > :58:27.it. I noted that Harry Burns, the senior medical figure in Scotland,
:58:27. > :58:36.was saying that loss of industry, that loss of reason for being is a
:58:36. > :58:39.major factor. Other problems that Scotland still try and combat in
:58:39. > :58:43.terms of physical and mental health and the rest of it, but clearly a
:58:43. > :58:48.lot of these places found a new future, there is no doubt about
:58:48. > :58:53.that. But it took time. It took other hiccups along the way,
:58:53. > :59:00.Bathgate had the car plant, it lost that. It then had bowed to roll up
:59:00. > :59:07.making mobile phones, it lost that. There was a big silicon chip flat --
:59:07. > :59:10.chip plant, it is now a distribution centre for Tesco. What has come out
:59:10. > :59:15.of it all is not making so many things, but being a service economy.
:59:15. > :59:20.Being dependent on what other people make and what they will sell at
:59:20. > :59:25.that. We have not been that good, I think at regenerating the kind of
:59:26. > :59:29.large-scale jobs -- job opportunities that would employ a
:59:29. > :59:34.lot of people out with service call centres and that kind of thing. How
:59:34. > :59:39.important are those large scale industries for a community's
:59:39. > :59:43.self-worth? These big factories would be the heart of these
:59:43. > :59:49.communities. We are now hearing that Bathgate is a commuter town.
:59:49. > :59:52.Absolutely, I think your piece referred to the resilience of
:59:52. > :59:56.families and local communities. Don't know about the changing face
:59:56. > :00:02.of industry, but the changing face of the entertainment industry, I was
:00:02. > :00:07.fortunate enough to see the Proclaimers last night and the
:00:07. > :00:11.message when they played Letter From America was just as poignant as 25
:00:11. > :00:17.years ago as we are still living with the consequences. The
:00:17. > :00:20.consequences are dire. Because of the changing face of the public
:00:20. > :00:23.sector versus the private sector and the lack of investment in the public
:00:23. > :00:30.sector means that these families that did pick up the pieces when
:00:30. > :00:33.women went out to work can no longer use that Avenue, women cannot find
:00:33. > :00:42.work in the public sector any more in these areas. How much were these
:00:42. > :00:46.changes are about political ideology and how much were they about changes
:00:46. > :00:52.in the goods and services people wanted? A lot of it was about a
:00:52. > :00:56.government that the side of that investing in all those old
:00:56. > :01:00.industries like shipbuilding was no longer a price worth paying, so they
:01:00. > :01:06.tried to restructure. The other thing we lost, and one of the things
:01:06. > :01:10.I remember with great affection was a time when women in Greenock took
:01:10. > :01:16.over a jean factory in the early 1980s, and Helen Monaghan and her
:01:17. > :01:21.friends took over the factory and fought for their jobs, and there was
:01:21. > :01:27.a kind of resilience about ordinary working people and what they thought
:01:27. > :01:33.their claim to a role in society was, that seems to me to have
:01:33. > :01:37.disappeared. I suppose there is also that issued that we focused on these
:01:37. > :01:41.areas that have regenerated but other areas are still struggling,
:01:41. > :01:45.parts of air sure that have not recovered from the collapse of
:01:45. > :01:51.mining. Yes, your peace was quite optimistic, but Alf is right, one
:01:51. > :01:55.thing we need to think about is the role of the public sector and the
:01:55. > :02:00.ideology that forms thinking about its role, and it is not the enemy of
:02:00. > :02:08.economic growth. At the concert last night, I felt like 25 years ago the
:02:08. > :02:13.ideology reforming our economic policy is the same as the idea that
:02:13. > :02:18.form economic policy them. It is not just about global conditions but
:02:18. > :02:23.ideology in the free market of the public sector is the enemy of the
:02:23. > :02:27.economy. We need to move beyond that thinking and that is the challenge
:02:27. > :02:32.for the government, to talk about ideologies and frame the big picture
:02:32. > :02:37.for Scotland. How much has the workforce change? We now see
:02:37. > :02:42.immigration into Scotland that maybe we didn't 25 years ago, especially
:02:42. > :02:47.with Polish workers and other communities coming here, so the
:02:47. > :02:52.workforce is dynamic. It is, but it is also atomised, especially for
:02:52. > :02:58.young people with no degree or great skills, finding meaningful work is
:02:58. > :03:02.difficult. There are great ambiguities about where we are and I
:03:02. > :03:07.suppose it is ambiguities that release back to that which in
:03:07. > :03:12.Douglas's the long, that Nicholl painted, because the man on that
:03:12. > :03:16.note, you don't know whether he is regretting what he is leaving behind
:03:16. > :03:22.in the clearances or where he is going or what he is doing next, and
:03:23. > :03:26.I think we are still with that ambiguity about what the future
:03:26. > :03:31.holds, especially for the next generation. I think uncertainty was
:03:31. > :03:36.mentioned in your peace, and there is uncertainty for young women.
:03:36. > :03:41.Modern apprenticeships are creating jobs but the jobs for young men.
:03:41. > :03:45.Young women are losing jobs and middle-aged women are losing jobs
:03:45. > :03:48.that will never come back because the public sector has been
:03:48. > :03:53.decimated, and that is what a lot of families in the 1980s relied on and
:03:53. > :03:56.can no longer rely on now. Thank you both very much. You're watching
:03:56. > :03:59.Sunday Politics Scotland from the BBC.
:03:59. > :04:01.Still to come: a look at the week ahead with Simon Johnson from The
:04:01. > :04:04.Daily Telegraph and veteran political campaigner Isobel Lindsay.
:04:04. > :04:08.But first, let's cross to Andrew Kerr for the latest news from
:04:08. > :04:11.Reporting Scotland. A murder investigation is under way
:04:11. > :04:18.after a fire in a Stirling hair dressing salon. 46-year-old Ahdieh
:04:18. > :04:21.Yazdanparast died in hospital late last night, following the blaze at
:04:21. > :04:25.Venus Hair and Beauty. A man was also seriously injured in the fire,
:04:25. > :04:28.which started in the cellar. Police say they're not looking for anyone
:04:28. > :04:30.else in connection with the incident.
:04:30. > :04:34.20 charities and poverty campaigners are joining together to raise
:04:34. > :04:36.awareness about deprivation. It's estimated 200,000 children are
:04:37. > :04:41.living below the bread line, with many going hungry. The organisation
:04:41. > :04:50.Children in Scotland claims the situation is getting worse. These
:04:50. > :04:54.problems have been with us for decades and we really need some
:04:54. > :05:03.political will, but well at every level. Charities like mine,
:05:03. > :05:06.organisations that if they say they care for children, then we have to
:05:07. > :05:09.think about what more we can do to invest in those areas and those
:05:09. > :05:12.families, and that might be at a cost to others, but I think now is
:05:12. > :05:14.the time when we have to realise we cannot go on.
:05:14. > :05:18.A valuable bronze artwork by Henry Moore has been stolen from an open
:05:18. > :05:21.air sculpture park in Dumfries and Galloway. Standing Figure was
:05:21. > :05:24.created in 1950, one of four Moore pieces at the sculpture park by the
:05:24. > :05:30.Glenkiln Reservoir near Shawhead. Police say it's worth a high value
:05:30. > :05:39.and are appealing for witnesses. Let's look at the weather. Settled
:05:39. > :05:43.as we head into Sunday afternoon, but a clearly look for many with
:05:43. > :05:46.this big band of cloud across other in Scotland, lovely sunshine through
:05:46. > :05:51.premature and the West Highlands, and that is how it will stay this
:05:51. > :05:54.afternoon. Cloud in the East producing rain towards the
:05:54. > :05:59.south-east, especially extending up towards Aberdeenshire later. Cool
:05:59. > :06:03.under that cloud, breezy for the south-east, lighter winds in the
:06:03. > :06:09.West and no reason why we shouldn't see 12 or 13 for the North West
:06:09. > :06:14.Highlands. By next update is at 6:10pm. Soon, we will discuss the
:06:14. > :06:18.Highlands. By next update is at big events coming up at Holyrood,
:06:18. > :06:27.but first let's look back at the week in 60 seconds.
:06:27. > :06:31.Owners of the Grangemouth oil refinery have urged workers not to
:06:31. > :06:36.go ahead with a planned strike, warning it could shut most of
:06:36. > :06:41.Scotland. The Queen's Batten relay has begun
:06:41. > :06:44.its tour of Commonwealth countries. It will return to Scotland for a 40
:06:44. > :06:48.day tour ahead of next summer's games.
:06:48. > :06:52.The Scottish Government is to take Prestwick airport into public
:06:52. > :06:58.ownership after the current owners failed to find a buyer. It has been
:06:58. > :07:02.losing £2 million a year. Sir Menzies Campbell, the former
:07:02. > :07:06.Liberal Democrat leader says he will stand down at the next general
:07:06. > :07:13.election. Professor peter Higgs was awarded
:07:13. > :07:19.the Nobel Prize for physics, having been recognised for his work on the
:07:19. > :07:23.Higgs boson particle. And I'm delighted and rather relieved it is
:07:23. > :07:31.all over, because it has been a long time coming.
:07:31. > :07:40.If that was the week that was, let's turn to the week ahead. With me this
:07:40. > :07:44.week, Simon Johnson, Scottish political editor of the Daily
:07:44. > :07:49.Telegraph, and the vice-chair of Scottish CND, Isobel Lindsay. We
:07:49. > :07:53.were talking to Alistair Carmichael earlier. He was calling for more
:07:53. > :07:58.ordinary people to become involved in the independence debate. Given
:07:58. > :08:02.your involved with women for independence, is there a grassroots
:08:02. > :08:08.campaign that perhaps politicians are missing out on? Yes, the DS site
:08:08. > :08:15.has great strength in terms of the community, especially last Sunday
:08:15. > :08:20.night I was at a meeting and you had 120 turning out to a yes meeting.
:08:20. > :08:24.Throughout the country, the Yes campaign struggles with the media
:08:24. > :08:32.but it has a lot of strength in terms of the community and activity,
:08:32. > :08:37.and that will continue and build. Is that despite politicians goes like
:08:37. > :08:41.I've they failing to engage people? My personal view is that a lot of
:08:41. > :08:47.people are sick and tired of the referendum. We still have a year to
:08:47. > :08:53.go and people outside the Holyrood bubble have been saying we are still
:08:53. > :08:57.talking about this, in the last six weeks all these issues will come to
:08:57. > :09:02.the poor and we will have debates and a serious look at the
:09:02. > :09:05.proposition from each side, but the referendum campaign is so long but I
:09:05. > :09:12.think a lot of people are sick and tired of it already. There is a
:09:12. > :09:17.referendum story in Scotland on Sunday today, saying a former First
:09:17. > :09:20.Minister has backed an SNP appealed to political rivals for grandees
:09:20. > :09:28.like him and Jack McConnell to become part of the negotiating
:09:28. > :09:34.campaign it is yes vote. You think others will follow suit? No, Henry
:09:34. > :09:38.is going on a political journey and he has made a series of
:09:38. > :09:43.interventions that have been helpful to nationalists. It is a bit of
:09:43. > :09:47.mischief. You are talking about something that if you look at
:09:47. > :09:54.opinion polls on Friday, 50% voting no, 28% yes, so you might as well as
:09:54. > :10:02.me what kind of Lamborghini I would buy if I won the lottery, . In terms
:10:02. > :10:06.of what might happen after a yes vote, can you understand why those
:10:06. > :10:12.supporting the union do not want to engage? Yes, because as soon as you
:10:12. > :10:15.get people focused on the exciting things we could do with
:10:15. > :10:20.independence, you start getting people in gay in that very campaign,
:10:20. > :10:25.and this is what the no side doesn't want. They want to keep people fixed
:10:25. > :10:29.on the negative. Once you turn to the positive, it is a game for the
:10:29. > :10:34.yes people, and I don't think we will have any difficulty think
:10:34. > :10:40.Scottish grandees, although I hope we will be careful that ordinary
:10:40. > :10:44.Scots also get engaged in transition processes, but if there was a yes
:10:44. > :10:50.vote, no shortage of people prepared to get involved in creating a new
:10:50. > :10:56.society in Scotland. But this is something the no side will not
:10:56. > :11:02.really discuss. No, because by discussing it, and this is what
:11:02. > :11:08.nationalists want to happen, you make it seem like there is an
:11:08. > :11:12.inevitability about of it, it is more likely to happen than it is, so
:11:12. > :11:18.they will not play into that agenda and will stay away from that. Let's
:11:18. > :11:22.talk about another story, this strike next week at the Grangemouth
:11:22. > :11:30.chemical plant, 48 hours from next Sunday. How concerned should
:11:30. > :11:35.Scotland be about this? I gather there are enough reserves for the
:11:35. > :11:38.strike next week in a few days, but it is concerning because the
:11:38. > :11:42.management and workers seem at loggerheads with each other, and the
:11:42. > :11:47.language that is being used, blackmail and things like that, you
:11:47. > :11:51.want them to knock some heads together or get some cooler heads
:11:51. > :11:57.and say, this is millions of pounds for the economy, which is still in
:11:57. > :12:00.recovery, people trying to get to work across the country, you have a
:12:00. > :12:06.responsibility to reach an agreement, and people will find it
:12:06. > :12:09.difficult to understand that this is being considered over what seems to
:12:09. > :12:15.be an issue regarding an individual convener in there. It seems out of
:12:15. > :12:20.proportion to the problem, and I hope cooler heads prevail. A
:12:20. > :12:24.difficult one for politicians because the do not want to become
:12:24. > :12:28.involved in the dispute with they are trying to negotiate the future
:12:28. > :12:33.of this plan. It is difficult to understand what the owners are up to
:12:33. > :12:36.because they seem to want to have a strike. Obviously they want to
:12:36. > :12:44.reduce their costs, they want concessions from the unions, but why
:12:44. > :12:47.would you pick on a shop stewards convener on disciplinary action on a
:12:47. > :12:53.comparatively minor issue, knowing this will provoke the union into
:12:53. > :13:00.taking action? Why pick on that issue? Why not just say they want
:13:00. > :13:06.negotiations on how they can help to make the plant more viable and get
:13:06. > :13:09.into constructive discussion, but by persisting on that disciplinary
:13:09. > :13:16.action, they seem to want to be provoking a strike. Next week, we
:13:16. > :13:21.have the SNP conference. What do the SNP have to do regards
:13:21. > :13:26.independence? Salmond had a difficult balancing act. Polls are
:13:26. > :13:30.great for them at the moment but he needs to say we can turn this
:13:30. > :13:35.around, get them fired up, it also needs to be speaking out to people
:13:35. > :13:39.in the real world and try to paint a vision for them of what independent
:13:39. > :13:44.Scotland might be, because it has been quite scatter-gun. We will
:13:44. > :13:49.leave it there, but thank you both for coming to speak to us. That is
:13:49. > :13:52.all from us this week. We are back at 11am next week. Goodbye, and
:13:52. > :13:54.enjoy your Sunday.