:00:42. > :00:49.Welcome to the Sunday Politics. It began as lead gate and is now about
:00:50. > :00:52.police. The watchdog is reopening an inquiry into three serving officers
:00:53. > :00:56.who helped bring down a cabinet minister as their evidence is
:00:57. > :01:01.branded a work of fiction. They tried to intimidate range modes
:01:02. > :01:06.but in the end, it was the union that capitulated. I will ask about
:01:07. > :01:14.Unite strong-arm tactics at Grangemouth and Falkirk. The preach
:01:15. > :01:18.that women should be sidelined and argue that they are sexual objects
:01:19. > :01:22.that should be covered up. Which one we will ask the Muslim Council of
:01:23. > :01:24.Britain about the veil, attitudes towards women and what they are
:01:25. > :01:28.doing to stop extremism in our midst. And here in Scotland:
:01:29. > :01:31.Are the days of a reassuring figure behind the front counter at your
:01:32. > :01:32.local police stations numbered? The pros and cons of modernising our
:01:33. > :01:48.police service. its staff.
:01:49. > :01:52.With me as always, the best and the brightest political panel, Helen
:01:53. > :01:55.Lewis, Janan Ganesh and Nick Watt who will be tweeting their
:01:56. > :02:00.humiliating climb-down is what they got wrong last week in the
:02:01. > :02:07.programme. If this can happen it to a Cabinet minister, what hope is
:02:08. > :02:09.there for anyone else? Thus the Home Affairs Select Committee concluded
:02:10. > :02:14.what many already thought about the treatment of Andrew Mitchell by
:02:15. > :02:19.three self-styled PC plebs. They met him to clear the air over what did
:02:20. > :02:23.or did not happen when he was prevented from ramming his bike
:02:24. > :02:27.through the Downing Street gates. But the officers gave the media and
:02:28. > :02:33.inaccurate account of that meeting. Two of them are even accused of
:02:34. > :02:36.misleading the Commons committee. The Independent Police Complaints
:02:37. > :02:41.Commission will now reopen there enquiry. This is not a story about
:02:42. > :02:48.Andrew Mitchell, it is about the police. Keith Vaz is often in high
:02:49. > :02:53.dudgeon and this is the highest dad and I have seen him in for some
:02:54. > :02:55.time. They could be held for contempt of Parliament and
:02:56. > :03:01.technically they could be sent to prison. It has blown up into an
:03:02. > :03:06.enormous story. I do not know what is worse, the police trying to
:03:07. > :03:09.stitch up a Cabinet member and try to mislead the media or the
:03:10. > :03:18.incompetence they have done it from day one. That is quite good. I would
:03:19. > :03:23.sleep more soundly at night if I knew the pleas were good at this. It
:03:24. > :03:29.is the incompetence that shocks me. And this is just a sideshow. We are
:03:30. > :03:32.still waiting on the main report as to what exactly happened outside
:03:33. > :03:37.Downing Street gates. But that not will be good for the police either.
:03:38. > :03:42.The file has gone from the Metropolitan police to the CPS, so
:03:43. > :03:48.we are limited about what we can say. This is about the police
:03:49. > :03:54.Federation. They were set up under statute in 1990 as a deal in which a
:03:55. > :03:58.police would not go on strike. This is a political campaign to get a
:03:59. > :04:02.Cabinet minister out and the legacy of this is the police Federation
:04:03. > :04:08.will have to be reformed. We will keep an eye on it. They were Ed
:04:09. > :04:16.Miliband's union backers, they swung the Labour leadership for him in
:04:17. > :04:19.2010. Now the Unite union looks like his biggest headache. The Sunday
:04:20. > :04:23.Times has seen extracts of the report into the alleged vote rigging
:04:24. > :04:30.to select a Labour candidate in Falkirk. There was evidence of
:04:31. > :04:34.coercion and Gregory as well as deliberate attempt to frustrate the
:04:35. > :04:40.enquiry. We will be speaking to Len McCluskey, the Unite union's General
:04:41. > :04:46.Secretary, in a moment. First out the saga began an almost ended up
:04:47. > :04:50.with the loss of 800 jobs at a petrochemical plant in Grangemouth.
:04:51. > :04:54.Unite were key players in the Grangemouth dispute and the union
:04:55. > :04:59.headed by Len McCluskey has come under fire for its intimidator Tariq
:05:00. > :05:02.tactics. In one instance demonstrators complete with an
:05:03. > :05:10.inflatable rat picketed the home of a INEOS director. The police were
:05:11. > :05:16.called. It was part of a strategy the union called leverage. But
:05:17. > :05:21.turning up at people's houses seems to represent an escalation. At the
:05:22. > :05:26.centre of the rout was Steve in deals -- Stephen Denes. INEOS
:05:27. > :05:30.launched an investigation into him as he was suspected of using company
:05:31. > :05:35.time to engineer the selection of labour's candidate in Falkirk. That
:05:36. > :05:42.candidate was Karie Murphy, a friend of Len McCluskey. Stevie Deans
:05:43. > :05:52.resigned last week and denies any wrongdoing, but it capped a dramatic
:05:53. > :05:58.climb-down by Unite union. Len McCluskey joins me now. Thanks to
:05:59. > :06:07.the Sunday Times we now know what is in this labour report on the Falkirk
:06:08. > :06:11.vote rigging. Forgery, coercion, trickery, manipulation. You must be
:06:12. > :06:19.ashamed of how Unite union behaved in Falkirk. The Sunday Times article
:06:20. > :06:23.is lazy journalism. There is nothing new in the article. This was all
:06:24. > :06:29.dealt with by the Labour Party in the summer. We rejected those
:06:30. > :06:33.allegations then and we said we had done nothing wrong and both the
:06:34. > :06:38.Labour Party and the police in Scotland indicated there had been no
:06:39. > :06:44.wrongdoing. The report itself says you were trying to thwart the
:06:45. > :06:49.investigation. First you tried to fix the selection of a candidate to
:06:50. > :06:54.get your woman in and then you thwarted the investigation into the
:06:55. > :06:59.dirty deeds. The reality is the Labour Party report was deeply
:07:00. > :07:06.flawed. The Labour Party then instructed a solicitor, a lawyer, to
:07:07. > :07:09.do an in-depth investigation and during that investigation they got
:07:10. > :07:14.to the bottom of what had happened and they decided there was no
:07:15. > :07:20.wrongdoing whatsoever. At the time I was so confident we had done
:07:21. > :07:24.nothing, I called for an independent enquiry. They were forced to
:07:25. > :07:27.conclude there was no wrongdoing because the people who originally
:07:28. > :07:32.complained changed their evidence and we now know they did so because
:07:33. > :07:39.Unite union officials helped them to rewrite their retraction and Stevie
:07:40. > :07:45.Deans approved it. That is not true. We have had 1000 e-mails thrown into
:07:46. > :07:53.the public arena and what is that all about? Who is leaking this? They
:07:54. > :07:59.showed the Unite union was rewriting the retractions. This interview
:08:00. > :08:04.would go a lot better if you are allowed me to finish the question
:08:05. > :08:12.that you asked. These e-mails were put into the public arena by the PR
:08:13. > :08:17.company from INEOS. Why are they doing this? The truth of the matter
:08:18. > :08:21.is that all of the investigations that took place demonstrate there
:08:22. > :08:26.was nothing to answer. This idea that the Unite union has rewritten
:08:27. > :08:32.and the evidence from the families has been withdrawn, the families are
:08:33. > :08:40.a part of Stevie deems' family. They clarified the position. Do you deny
:08:41. > :08:47.that union officials were involved in the retractions? I deny it
:08:48. > :08:50.completely. This is important. Independent solicitors to witness
:08:51. > :08:58.statements from the family and they are the ones that were influencing
:08:59. > :09:04.the Labour Party with the position is clarified and there is no case to
:09:05. > :09:14.answer. Do you deny Stevie deems saw their retractions? It is his family.
:09:15. > :09:18.So you do not deny it? It is his family. This is an ordinary, decent
:09:19. > :09:24.family who were faced with the full weight of the pleas, a forensic
:09:25. > :09:31.solicitor. Of course they spoke to Stevie Deans. This whole thing is a
:09:32. > :09:37.cesspit. Does it not need an independent investigation? This is a
:09:38. > :09:42.trap being laid by Tory Central office. They are making all the
:09:43. > :09:48.demands. The media, the Daily Mail, the Sunday Times, the Conservative
:09:49. > :09:56.mouthpiece, they are laying tracks for Ed Miliband and Ed Miliband
:09:57. > :10:00.should not fall into them. Since when did it become part of an
:10:01. > :10:09.industrial dispute to send mobs to the home of company families. This
:10:10. > :10:16.is a legitimate form of protest and it is a silent protest. We believe
:10:17. > :10:20.if faceless directors are making decisions that cripple communities,
:10:21. > :10:28.they cannot expect to simply drift back to their own leafy suburbia and
:10:29. > :10:35.not be countable. This is silent protest. It is lawful. It may be
:10:36. > :10:40.silent in Grangemouth, but it was not silent elsewhere. You went with
:10:41. > :10:48.a giant rat, loud-hailers telling everybody the neighbour was evil.
:10:49. > :10:53.No, we did not. You had loud-hailers, you even encouraged
:10:54. > :11:05.passing children in Grangemouth to join in. That is nonsense. Look at
:11:06. > :11:08.the rat. The reality is the Grangemouth community was going to
:11:09. > :11:15.be decimated, Grangemouth was going to become a ghost town. I reject
:11:16. > :11:19.totally this idea there were loud-hailers and children involved.
:11:20. > :11:26.That is a lie perpetrated by the Daily Mail. But you have used these
:11:27. > :11:33.tactics in other disputes. We have used the tactics in other disputes,
:11:34. > :11:39.but we have not used loud-hailers at people's homes. Because the labour
:11:40. > :11:44.laws are so restrictive we have to look at every available means that
:11:45. > :11:49.we can protest. It is an outrage, an absolute outrage, that this is
:11:50. > :11:56.happening to British workers in the 21st-century. It could not happen
:11:57. > :12:01.elsewhere. Is not intimidation the wider hallmark of your union? You
:12:02. > :12:06.were quoted as saying to do whatever it takes during your attempts to
:12:07. > :12:14.take over the Labour Falkirk constituency. You were instructing
:12:15. > :12:24.to dig out the nasty stuff on your opponents. That is not true. Let's
:12:25. > :12:29.see these e-mails? This is a con trick. Nobody is looking to dig
:12:30. > :12:36.out... This is the words of your legal services advisor. Unite has
:12:37. > :12:41.tried to instigate a revival of trade union values within the Labour
:12:42. > :12:46.Party. That is what Ed Miliband wanted us to do. As soon as we
:12:47. > :12:52.started to be in any way ineffective, there were screams and
:12:53. > :12:57.howls of derision. When the company started to investigate Stevie Deans,
:12:58. > :13:02.your friend, your campaign manager, that he was using company time to
:13:03. > :13:06.moonlight on the job, you called INEOS and said unless you stop the
:13:07. > :13:13.investigation we will bring Grangemouth to a standstill. I never
:13:14. > :13:22.said that at all. You brought it to a standstill. We never brought it to
:13:23. > :13:27.a standstill, the company did. Who says that I said that we would bring
:13:28. > :13:32.it to a standstill? You have read it in the newspapers. You should not
:13:33. > :13:38.believe everything. I did not make that threat to the management. You
:13:39. > :13:45.carried the threat out. You instigated an overtime ban and a
:13:46. > :13:48.work to rule. And that is what Grangemouth to a standstill because
:13:49. > :13:54.the company decided to close the petrochemical site down. Because
:13:55. > :14:00.Stevie Deans was suspended due introduced industrial action? Our
:14:01. > :14:07.members in Grangemouth felt he was being unfairly treated. In the end
:14:08. > :14:11.you're grandstanding almost cost Scotland is most important
:14:12. > :14:17.industrial facility. The day was saved by your total capitulation.
:14:18. > :14:25.Grandstanding, capitulation and humiliation are grand phrases. There
:14:26. > :14:29.is nothing about capitulation. Len McCluskey did not wake up one day
:14:30. > :14:36.and decide to have a dispute with INEOS. The workers in that factory
:14:37. > :14:39.democratically elect their shop stewards to represent them and to
:14:40. > :14:47.express to management their concerns and their views. That is what
:14:48. > :14:51.happened with INEOS. Jack Straw has condemned your union's handling of
:14:52. > :14:57.Grangemouth as a catastrophe. Have you considered your position? Jack
:14:58. > :15:01.Straw and others in the Labour Party, you have to ask them what
:15:02. > :15:07.their agenda is. I am not interested in what he says. The truth of the
:15:08. > :15:14.matter is we responded to the requirements and needs of our
:15:15. > :15:19.members. At a mass meeting last Monday 100% supported their shop
:15:20. > :15:23.stewards and their union. We will continue to stand shoulder to
:15:24. > :15:28.shoulder with our members when they are faced with difficult situations.
:15:29. > :15:36.You have lost all the union rights. You have had to agree to a no strike
:15:37. > :15:41.rule, you have lost pension rights. We have not lost rights at all, we
:15:42. > :15:46.are still working with the company to implement its survival plan. The
:15:47. > :15:50.Prime Minister is always attacking unions and just lately he has taken
:15:51. > :15:57.to praising the automotive industry. Jaguar Land Rover,
:15:58. > :16:03.Foxhall, BMW at Cowley, they are all Unite union members were the shop
:16:04. > :16:07.stewards are engaged positively to implement survival plans and to make
:16:08. > :16:12.a success for the company. That is what we do, but by the same token we
:16:13. > :16:16.stand shoulder to shoulder with our members who are in struggle and we
:16:17. > :16:23.will always do that and we will not be cowed by media attacks on us. Is
:16:24. > :16:36.your leadership not proving to be as disastrous for the members as Arthur
:16:37. > :16:41.Scargill was for the NUM? My membership is growing. I am
:16:42. > :16:45.accountable to my members, two are executive, and the one thing they
:16:46. > :16:49.will know is that when they want me standing shoulder to shoulder with
:16:50. > :16:53.them when they have a problem, I will be there, despite the
:16:54. > :17:07.disgraceful attacks launched on us by the media.
:17:08. > :17:09."A country ready to welcome your investment which values your
:17:10. > :17:12.friendship and will never exclude anyone because of their race,
:17:13. > :17:14.religion, colour or creed." The words of the Prime minister at the
:17:15. > :17:18.World Islamic Economic Forum which was hosted for the first time in
:17:19. > :17:21.London this week. The PM's warm words are sure to be welcomed by
:17:22. > :17:24.British Muslims who have endured a spate of negative headlines. There's
:17:25. > :17:26.been the controversy over the wearing of the veil, attitudes to
:17:27. > :17:29.women, and the radicalisation of some young British Muslims. In a
:17:30. > :17:32.moment I'll be talking to the Secretary General of the Muslim
:17:33. > :17:43.Council of Britain, Farooq Murad. First - here's Giles Dilnot. The
:17:44. > :17:47.call to Friday prayers at the east London Mosque which has strong links
:17:48. > :17:52.with the Muslim Council of Britain, one of the more vocal groups amongst
:17:53. > :17:57.British Muslims. Despite the fact it frequently happens, it is neither
:17:58. > :18:01.helpful nor accurate to describe the British Muslim community. There are
:18:02. > :18:06.so many different sects, traditions, cultures and
:18:07. > :18:09.nationalities, it is more accurate to describe the British Muslim
:18:10. > :18:13.communities, but there is one question being put to them - are
:18:14. > :18:23.they doing enough internally to address some challenging issues? Are
:18:24. > :18:27.they willing to confront radicalisation, attitudes to
:18:28. > :18:32.non-muslins, two women, and cases of sexual exploitation in a meaningful
:18:33. > :18:41.way? A number of them say no, not nearly enough. This former jihad de
:18:42. > :18:46.has spent ten years telling young Muslim teenagers how they can reject
:18:47. > :18:50.extremist radicalisation, using Outward Bound courses and community
:18:51. > :19:02.work, but he and others doing this work thing -- think some elders are
:19:03. > :19:11.failing the youngsters. This has been going on for decades, one
:19:12. > :19:15.figures -- thing is said in public to please people but in private
:19:16. > :19:21.something very different is being said and the messages are being
:19:22. > :19:27.confused. Some of the young people, it pushes them further into a space
:19:28. > :19:34.where they are vulnerable for radical recruiters. For many Muslim
:19:35. > :19:39.youngsters, life is about living 1's faith within an increasingly secular
:19:40. > :19:42.society, a struggle not helped if rigid interpretations of the Koran
:19:43. > :19:54.are being preached, say some sectors. Some practices often don't
:19:55. > :19:58.make sense in 21st-century Britain, and you are perhaps creating
:19:59. > :20:01.obstacles if you stick to those and it is perhaps better to let go of
:20:02. > :20:08.those cultural problems, especially when they need to clear injustices
:20:09. > :20:12.like forced marriage, reticence to talk about grooming for example, or
:20:13. > :20:17.discrimination against women. There is a long list but I am very clear
:20:18. > :20:25.that in fact the bad Muslim is the one who sticks to unflinching,
:20:26. > :20:31.narrow dogmatic fundamentalist perception of religion. One issue
:20:32. > :20:39.often focused on is the wearing of minicab. Polling suggests 80% of
:20:40. > :20:55.Britons would favour a ban in public places. -- the niqab. Many people
:20:56. > :21:07.don't seem to recognise the legacy of the niqab. Many people preach
:21:08. > :21:10.that women should be sidelined and that they are sexual objects that
:21:11. > :21:15.should be covered up and the preservation of morality falls on
:21:16. > :21:19.their shoulders. The Muslim Council of Britain recently got praise for
:21:20. > :21:25.holding a conference on combating sexual exploitation. In the wake of
:21:26. > :21:29.abuse cases that had involved predominantly Pakistani men. For one
:21:30. > :21:36.man who has followed the story for some years, the Muslim Council of
:21:37. > :21:42.Britain needs to do much more. We need to get along together and if
:21:43. > :21:50.things like attitudes towards the normal slim girl in stark contrast
:21:51. > :21:54.to the expression of honour and chastity of the Muslim girl, your
:21:55. > :22:00.sister or daughter, are such that actions that would be an fought off
:22:01. > :22:07.with a slim girl becomes permissible with a white girl, then we are all
:22:08. > :22:12.in trouble. To some, attitudes to women are not limited to sexual
:22:13. > :22:17.interactions at the very structures of life in Muslim communities and
:22:18. > :22:20.indeed the Muslim Council of Britain itself. I would like to ask the
:22:21. > :22:28.Muslim Council of Britain what they are doing about the fact that very
:22:29. > :22:36.few mosques give voices to are doing about the fact that very
:22:37. > :22:38.the fact that someone women are experiencing female genital
:22:39. > :22:42.mutilation and forced marriages, what about the women who are getting
:22:43. > :22:46.married and their marriages are not being registered and they are being
:22:47. > :22:51.left homeless and denied maintenance rights, what about the fact there
:22:52. > :22:54.are sharia rights that have been found to be discriminating against
:22:55. > :22:59.women, and the fact there are men in this country who continue to hold
:23:00. > :23:06.misogynistic views about women, what are you doing? The occasional press
:23:07. > :23:11.release will not solve this problem of a deeply patriarchal community.
:23:12. > :23:15.That all of these issues can be exploited to the point of Islam
:23:16. > :23:21.phobia is not doubted, but many Muslims feel that unless the
:23:22. > :23:28.communities do tackle this openly, a big cultural gap will exist between
:23:29. > :23:31.the two. And the Secretary General of the
:23:32. > :23:36.Muslim Council of Britain, Farooq Murad, joins me now. One visible
:23:37. > :23:45.sign that sets muslins aside is the veils that cover women's faces. Do
:23:46. > :23:55.you think it makes them impossible to be part of mainstream society?
:23:56. > :23:58.The niqab is not an obligatory requirement. But do you accept that
:23:59. > :24:04.those who wear it are cutting themselves off from mainstream
:24:05. > :24:14.society? Some people do, and whilst wearing niqab, some of them are
:24:15. > :24:18.working in various walks of life successfully and it is seen as a
:24:19. > :24:23.faith requirement, but it is a red herring in the sense that it applies
:24:24. > :24:28.to such a small number of Muslim girls. For many Muslim preachers,
:24:29. > :24:38.isn't separation precisely the point of the niqab? Certainly not, if you
:24:39. > :24:44.look at the Muslim women in the public sphere, we have many very
:24:45. > :24:55.successful women. But not the ones who are veiled. Not in the public
:24:56. > :25:00.arena as such, but the veil is a practice which is practised by a
:25:01. > :25:07.very small number. Do you favour it? I personally think it is not a
:25:08. > :25:12.requirement. But do you think women should wear the veil? I think it is
:25:13. > :25:18.wrong to force women to wear the veil. I asked if in your opinion
:25:19. > :25:24.women should wear the veil? It is important not to force women to wear
:25:25. > :25:28.the veil. Should they of their free choice where the veil? A lot of
:25:29. > :25:33.individuals do things out of their free choice which I do not approve
:25:34. > :25:38.of, I don't think it is conducive it helps their cause, but I do not have
:25:39. > :25:43.the right to take their choice away from them. I am still unsure if you
:25:44. > :25:49.think it is a good thing or a bad thing. Are not many Muslim women in
:25:50. > :25:53.this country being forced by Muslim preachers and often their male
:25:54. > :25:57.relations who want to keep Muslim women their place? As I said, it is
:25:58. > :26:06.wrong for anyone to force Muslim women. But how would we ever know in
:26:07. > :26:12.a family if a woman was being forced? Exactly, we don't know what
:26:13. > :26:18.is going on in people 's homes and what pressure is being applied. I
:26:19. > :26:22.want you to look at this picture, very popular on Islamic websites,
:26:23. > :26:28.and it shows the women who is wearing the niqab having a straight
:26:29. > :26:33.route to heaven, and the other Muslim woman dressed in western gear
:26:34. > :26:41.condemned to hell. Do you consider that a proper message for Muslim
:26:42. > :26:47.women? Not at all, I don't. So any Islamic websites in Britain... The
:26:48. > :26:50.Muslim Council of Britain is an organisation of five affiliates from
:26:51. > :26:56.across the country and this is not coming from any of them. As I said,
:26:57. > :27:02.those minority views propagated by individuals should not be used to
:27:03. > :27:08.represent Muslim community. So that would not have the support of the
:27:09. > :27:12.Muslim Council of Britain? It would not have the support. What about the
:27:13. > :27:25.Muslim free school that requires children as young as 11 to wear a
:27:26. > :27:35.black veil outside of school? Do you agree with that? I am not sure
:27:36. > :27:44.exactly what the policy is... I have just told you, do you agree that
:27:45. > :27:49.girls as young as 11 should wear a black burka outside of school? I
:27:50. > :28:02.don't think it should be imposed on anybody. But this is the desired
:28:03. > :28:06.dress School of the Muslim females. I am asking for your view. I said it
:28:07. > :28:13.at the beginning that I do not think it should be imposed. Would you send
:28:14. > :28:27.your daughter to a school that would wear a black burka at the age of 11?
:28:28. > :28:30.Would you? No. It seems that some muslins are determined to segregate
:28:31. > :28:37.young Muslim girls right from the start to very early from society. It
:28:38. > :28:46.is not their segregation as such, I would say that there are faith
:28:47. > :28:49.schools, if you look at an Islamic girls school in Blackburn in a
:28:50. > :28:56.traditional setting, it has come the top of the league table this year in
:28:57. > :29:03.the secondary school league tables. But it doesn't make 11-year-olds
:29:04. > :29:10.wear black burkas. Many of those girls go on to have a successful
:29:11. > :29:18.career. Not wearing black burkas. I am sure there are examples of women
:29:19. > :29:21.who do have successful careers. There is a very conservative
:29:22. > :29:33.movement from the continent on Islam, and the issue supposedly
:29:34. > :29:41.based on Islamic law on their website. Here is one of their recent
:29:42. > :29:45.judgements. The female is encouraged to remain within the confines of her
:29:46. > :29:49.home as much as possible, she should not come out of the home without
:29:50. > :29:55.need and necessity. What do you think of that? We need to say the
:29:56. > :29:59.whole context of that quote. They are saying they should stay at home
:30:00. > :30:12.as much as possible, do you agree with that? I see many Muslim women
:30:13. > :30:17.who are walking about... But this is what the mosque is recommending
:30:18. > :30:38.women should do. The practice is quite the contrary. Let me show you
:30:39. > :30:43.another one. Another Fatwa. Do you agree with that? These have been
:30:44. > :30:50.picked out from material dating back to different cultural settings and
:30:51. > :30:57.in practice they are not applied. This is advice being given as we
:30:58. > :31:03.speak. This is not being practised. Do you agree with it? No, not at
:31:04. > :31:07.all. These are from the DL Monday mosques, how come 72 of these
:31:08. > :31:25.mosques are affiliated to your counsel? There may be publications
:31:26. > :31:31.from one of their scholars, but they have been written in countries
:31:32. > :31:37.abroad and translated. This is advice being given to young women
:31:38. > :31:43.now. They are affiliated to the Muslim Council of Britain. Do you
:31:44. > :31:47.ever speak to them about that? The Muslim Council is a very broad
:31:48. > :31:52.organisation. We are working on lots of common issues to create a
:31:53. > :32:01.community which positively integrates. Did you ever speak to
:32:02. > :32:08.them to say this is not appropriate for British Muslims? There may be
:32:09. > :32:16.certain ad buys and publications available, but people make their
:32:17. > :32:26.choices. So it is OK for your organisation to issue things like
:32:27. > :32:35.that? Many of these things will fall under scrutiny and we need to create
:32:36. > :32:40.that. Why do only 26% of British mosques have facilities for women?
:32:41. > :32:46.If you go back to the requirement of prayer, it was not obligatory for
:32:47. > :32:52.women to come to the masks to prayer. When a poorer community
:32:53. > :32:59.began putting up mosques at the very beginning in terraced houses... Did
:33:00. > :33:08.you have a policy to encourage them? Is it on your website? It is in our
:33:09. > :33:16.practices that 20% of the council have to be female. Coming out of
:33:17. > :33:22.this movement there is a conscious stream of superiority between
:33:23. > :33:26.Muslims and non-Muslims. Look at this quote. He is a well-known
:33:27. > :33:51.picture in this country. That is what he wants to stop. I
:33:52. > :33:59.disagree with that. We believe we live in this society and Muslims in
:34:00. > :34:04.any society of the world, and they have historically lived as
:34:05. > :34:10.minorities in many countries... You would this associate yourself from
:34:11. > :34:18.that? Why do you allow people like that to be affiliated to you? The
:34:19. > :34:21.requirement is for any organisation to be affiliated is that they are
:34:22. > :34:27.bound by the Charity commission's rules and regulations. We only
:34:28. > :34:34.accept those who are under the law of this country. This is a matter of
:34:35. > :34:50.taste. Let me move on to a bigger issue.
:34:51. > :35:00.The Muslim Council of Britain never signed it. You signed it. A member
:35:01. > :35:07.signed it and in the mainstream media defended his position. So you
:35:08. > :35:13.have this associated yourself? We did. What is wrong with that? I am
:35:14. > :35:16.not sure about the Istanbul declaration because we'd
:35:17. > :35:21.disassociated ourselves on the basis... It is associated yourself
:35:22. > :35:26.before reading it? We did not sign it. You have no credit? Edgar Wright
:35:27. > :35:34.I have read it but I cannot recall completely all of the aspects. -- I
:35:35. > :35:39.have read it. At the time, in the national newspapers and media, there
:35:40. > :35:42.was a discussion being made and the person who signed also highlighted
:35:43. > :35:51.and said that that was not what was meant. For how long has your
:35:52. > :35:54.organisation this associated itself from the Istanbul decoration
:35:55. > :36:02.question from day one. It could hardly be from day one. We never
:36:03. > :36:07.signed it. The East London Mosque which you personally and the MCB
:36:08. > :36:12.closely associated with is also the venue for a number of extremist
:36:13. > :36:24.speakers and speakers who is both extremist positions. This year you
:36:25. > :36:28.had was hailed as the gritters of deeds. There was also a presentation
:36:29. > :36:33.by somebody described as an Al-Qaeda supporter. Another had described
:36:34. > :36:35.Christians and Jews as Bill. You have had described Christians and
:36:36. > :36:41.Jews as Bill. You have had a supporter of the Taliban there. Why
:36:42. > :36:50.do you do nothing to stop extremism at this Mosque with which you are
:36:51. > :36:53.associated with? We have no trust for rhetoric which condones or
:36:54. > :36:57.supports violence or extremism. We have issued guidelines and the
:36:58. > :37:01.mosque itself is a registered charity which has its own rules and
:37:02. > :37:08.regulations and procedures but it's a very large mosque and lots of
:37:09. > :37:12.organisations and come and hold gatherings. They rent out the
:37:13. > :37:17.facilities. The mosque have done on... You were prepared to speak
:37:18. > :37:25.alongside a man who saluted suicide bombers and said that 9/11 was not
:37:26. > :37:34.all summer, it was a conspiracy. I do not think I shared a artform. --
:37:35. > :37:38.a platform. There are different organisations holding lots of
:37:39. > :37:44.different conferences here. Why did you agree? I do not agree with that
:37:45. > :37:51.particular. I comes with the reject. I completely reject that view. I
:37:52. > :37:56.completely reject that view. My final question is the attitude to
:37:57. > :37:59.women, the alliance with the most fundamentalist of Islamic mosques,
:38:00. > :38:04.the toleration of intolerant views, a willingness for you to be counted
:38:05. > :38:08.among them, why should anybody of goodwill, either a Muslim or a
:38:09. > :38:15.non-Muslim, regard organisation as a force for good? It is an
:38:16. > :38:22.organisation which represents all different organisations which are
:38:23. > :38:27.affiliates and a cross-section of the Muslim unity. What you have done
:38:28. > :38:33.is to give the efforts of certain individual views, not the views of
:38:34. > :38:41.affiliates. -- Muslim community. It would be unfair to represent MCB's
:38:42. > :38:45.you with those. The work that we do is quite clear and is there a
:38:46. > :38:49.website. They are all associated with you but we have to leave it
:38:50. > :39:02.Good morning and welcome to Sunday Politics Scotland. Coming up on the
:39:03. > :39:05.programme: Police Scotland want to modernise
:39:06. > :39:08.the service, which means the days of the front desk are numbered. But
:39:09. > :39:14.with recorded crime down, are they actually on the right path?
:39:15. > :39:18.How many do you get a day? We're talking nuisance calls - and what's
:39:19. > :39:26.being done to free up your phone lines from cold callers. I'm just
:39:27. > :39:29.quite rude to people when they get through to me because I don't think
:39:30. > :39:32.they should be doing that. And could trying to impose terms
:39:33. > :39:36.slow down an independent Scotland's bid to become a member of the EU?
:39:37. > :39:39.We'll get an inside view from the latest member state, Croatia.
:39:40. > :39:45.When were you last at a public counter in a police station? Police
:39:46. > :39:48.Scotland say they need to modernise the service and shutting 65 of what
:39:49. > :39:51.they say are little-used counters will help them make efficiency
:39:52. > :39:57.savings of more than ?4 million, a dent in the ?64 million budget
:39:58. > :40:01.shortfall. Senior officers knew it would be a controversial move, but
:40:02. > :40:11.as Andrew Kerr reports, there has been a real backlash against the
:40:12. > :40:16.proposal. It is part of the folklore we
:40:17. > :40:20.associate with the police, the jolly sergeant behind the counter. Times
:40:21. > :40:25.have changed and it appears front desks are a thing of the past, with
:40:26. > :40:29.few people using them. This is one place where the counter could close.
:40:30. > :40:33.This office has been here for as long as I can remember. I am 48 and
:40:34. > :40:39.I remember being here as a child. It is another step in the wrong
:40:40. > :40:41.direction. I believe we have lost our local inspector as well. We are
:40:42. > :40:48.dealt with from six miles away and it is a slippery slope. There are
:40:49. > :40:51.concerns about the new centralised nature of Police Scotland. We are
:40:52. > :40:56.here at the Glasgow policeman see, celebrating the city of Glasgow
:40:57. > :41:02.police, established in 1800, the first force in Britain. -- the
:41:03. > :41:07.Glasgow Police Museum. What about the people that work behind these
:41:08. > :41:12.counters? There are concerns that they could be forced into voluntary
:41:13. > :41:15.redundancy. The support staff are going to be losing their jobs
:41:16. > :41:19.because of these proposals, that is a concern. One of the biggest
:41:20. > :41:23.problem is that we have is that the Scottish Police Authority have
:41:24. > :41:26.allowed the Chief Constable go out to consultation but not to
:41:27. > :41:32.scrutinise what the outcome of that is going to be. The outcome could be
:41:33. > :41:38.the closure of 65 public counters and reduced opening times at others.
:41:39. > :41:42.The police review the service but the Conservative Leader said the
:41:43. > :41:51.review was based on flawed data. Liberal share concerns. Police say
:41:52. > :41:58.they have consulted widely. -- the Liberal Democrats share concerns.
:41:59. > :42:02.Police urged people to keep -- a report urged people to keep well
:42:03. > :42:05.used counters open. They say this is all part of the modernisation of the
:42:06. > :42:10.service. We need to look at the demand, see whether public needed
:42:11. > :42:16.access and then come up with a system that matched demand
:42:17. > :42:20.accordingly. If you look back over the first six or seven months of
:42:21. > :42:24.Police Scotland, the early success we have had is wonderful.
:42:25. > :42:30.Anti-social behaviour is down. Serious violence is down. Robbery is
:42:31. > :42:33.down. But we are not complacent. We still want to do even better. The
:42:34. > :42:39.First Minister blame Westminster cuts and said he was putting
:42:40. > :42:43.resources into the front line at a time when recorded crime is at a 40
:42:44. > :42:48.year low. The Scottish police iteration take a pragmatic
:42:49. > :42:56.approach. -- the Scottish police Federation. We have to take on some
:42:57. > :43:05.massive challenges. If we look at the closure of counters, I would
:43:06. > :43:10.oppose that. That is a populous thing to do but it does not help
:43:11. > :43:14.reality. This has come at a difficult time in the short life of
:43:15. > :43:16.Police Scotland. It has raised real concerns about local accountability
:43:17. > :43:19.and centralisation. Joining me now in the studio,
:43:20. > :43:21.Scottish Labour's justice spokesperson and former police
:43:22. > :43:25.officer Graeme Pearson, and the SNP's Sandra White - who also sits
:43:26. > :43:27.on the Justice Committee. And in our Aberdeen studio, the justice
:43:28. > :43:32.spokesperson for the Liberal Democrats in Scotland, Alison
:43:33. > :43:38.McInnes. Good afternoon to all of you. Allison, let's start with you.
:43:39. > :43:42.If there is a saving of ?4 million by closing these rarely used front
:43:43. > :43:47.desks, is that not a move worth taking? We have to go back a step
:43:48. > :43:51.and back to first base and ask yourselves what we want form our
:43:52. > :43:56.local police service. Do we want a police service that is rooted in our
:43:57. > :44:00.local communities? That is open and accessible and welcoming? Or are we
:44:01. > :44:03.willing to settle for an increasingly impersonal and faceless
:44:04. > :44:08.organisation? I know what I would want. What we have at the moment is
:44:09. > :44:14.a local police service that values community interaction. It says the
:44:15. > :44:18.doors are open if we need their help or if we can help them. What Police
:44:19. > :44:23.Scotland is proposing is that we turn our backs on community and
:44:24. > :44:28.local stars. Are the police turning their backs by taking this move was
:44:29. > :44:34.to mark absolutely not. We have to be honest. It is a consultation. My
:44:35. > :44:37.understanding is that it has been extended but members of the public
:44:38. > :44:41.wanted to see police on the streets. If you have a fully station with a
:44:42. > :44:46.counter and one person per week has come into that, without policeman
:44:47. > :44:49.not be better out on the street preventing crime than at the
:44:50. > :44:53.counter? -- one police station. Is part of the problem not the
:44:54. > :44:59.admission by the First Minister this week that this was not a
:45:00. > :45:01.comprehensive survey of all the front counters? I understand that
:45:02. > :45:08.the booklet that was given out said it was a snapshot and some of the
:45:09. > :45:15.areas that were not visited was because there was no turnover. I
:45:16. > :45:19.welcome the extension. We have the might -- where people can put their
:45:20. > :45:24.views forward. It is all by preventing crime and the public want
:45:25. > :45:27.police on the streets. We heard from the Scottish police Federation
:45:28. > :45:29.saying that opposition would be populist and easy. Is that the
:45:30. > :45:35.position you find yourself in? Not at all. We were promised by the
:45:36. > :45:40.Government that we would get local policing and that the whole point of
:45:41. > :45:44.having one single force was to enhance and support that outcome.
:45:45. > :45:48.What we have had since is that we have had a withdrawal of services
:45:49. > :45:53.from local endeavours. 1200 jobs have gone behind the scenes. Now, 65
:45:54. > :46:03.police officers and many more will have short hours of working. But you
:46:04. > :46:06.would not keep a front desk open if Sandra White -- as Sandra White
:46:07. > :46:11.says, there is only one person per week. These are not current
:46:12. > :46:16.statistics. There has not been a lot of work put into it. What we did not
:46:17. > :46:24.get from the proposal was what the alternative is. I phoned the new
:46:25. > :46:28.nonemergency number last week because I wanted to speak to
:46:29. > :46:34.somebody. The call centre and was put on two could not even tell we
:46:35. > :46:37.were he worked and eventually I had to leave word so that they could
:46:38. > :46:43.trace him and get him to comment. We have that number and I have not had
:46:44. > :46:47.a problem and has been to phone. When you talk about communities and
:46:48. > :46:50.what they want, in my two-minute, I have seen the representations they
:46:51. > :46:55.have made to the observation and have read them. -- in my community.
:46:56. > :46:58.Some are saying there is no concern, some are saying there is. The
:46:59. > :47:03.community has been asked, certainly in my area. I do not know if Graham
:47:04. > :47:08.or Alison have looked into what the immunity of that, I have. I have
:47:09. > :47:13.seen it in black and white, that has been sent through. If you have that
:47:14. > :47:16.number, people are on Twitter now, they're an e-mail and what the
:47:17. > :47:20.public say to me is that they want to see police on the streets. I walk
:47:21. > :47:24.along the streets of Glasgow and I see police on the street. The book
:47:25. > :47:28.and go up and speak to them. I think that is where the police are in the
:47:29. > :47:34.communities. -- people can go up and speak to them. With recorded crime
:47:35. > :47:38.at a 40 year low, does that not indicate the position that it will
:47:39. > :47:41.lead to a reduction in crime? Diners at a 40 year low not because of
:47:42. > :47:48.Police Scotland, an organisation that has only been around for six
:47:49. > :47:54.months. -- crime is at a 40 year low. I think it is insulting to
:47:55. > :47:57.civilian staff and to the public to suggest that bobbies on the beat is
:47:58. > :48:04.the answer. That is a very 1-dimensional view of policing. It
:48:05. > :48:07.is quite complex. In which case, saying that people turning up at a
:48:08. > :48:12.front desk could be 1-dimensional. Sandra White has pointed out that
:48:13. > :48:14.there are a myriad of ways of communicating. It is trivial to
:48:15. > :48:19.suggest that people who need the help of police should use the
:48:20. > :48:25.resources of Twitter or Facebook. I think that is trivialising the
:48:26. > :48:30.situation. Sorry, could we also just remind you that it is not about
:48:31. > :48:36.closing all the counters. It is reducing the hours in some cases. I
:48:37. > :48:41.would like to ask them if they had done a survey of who goes out to 30
:48:42. > :48:45.AM to report something? There are more likely to phone. It is about
:48:46. > :48:49.more than police presence. It is about more than being able to see
:48:50. > :48:54.whether somebody has turned up at the desk. Civilian staff do a great
:48:55. > :48:57.deal more than talk to the public. The important thing is that most of
:48:58. > :49:01.these counters are utilised by support staff. It is not release
:49:02. > :49:06.officers who are going to be released from his offices. People
:49:07. > :49:10.who use these officers are amongst the most probable in a community.
:49:11. > :49:15.The elderly, young people who need some support, from help, some
:49:16. > :49:20.protection. Victims and witnesses who are looking for support. We have
:49:21. > :49:27.places like Easterhouse, Coatbridge, Airdrie, all closing and reducing
:49:28. > :49:31.their hours and yet we are keeping gift neck and Helensburgh open.
:49:32. > :49:34.There does not seem to be a logic behind the way this work has been
:49:35. > :49:39.done and it is being driven by saving money, not by providing
:49:40. > :49:44.service. Saving money is important. Of course. So how would you do it?
:49:45. > :49:49.The Chief Constable has acknowledged in Aberdeen that he does not think
:49:50. > :49:52.he has sufficient budget to continue to support the 1000 additional
:49:53. > :49:56.officers. The budget for that is 35 million. In addition, local
:49:57. > :50:02.authorities applies the board for something like 350 officers. --
:50:03. > :50:07.apply support. There is a whole range of officers that are there for
:50:08. > :50:11.them and they need to discuss that with communities, rather than a 30
:50:12. > :50:21.day consultation that if you're today, gone tomorrow and then we
:50:22. > :50:24.move on. -- that is due today. When Steve house was asked that question,
:50:25. > :50:29.did they have enough money, they said they did. Will there have to be
:50:30. > :50:38.some job losses? There is voluntary redundancy. That is not compulsory.
:50:39. > :50:41.We have to remember this. 1200 people have been released by Police
:50:42. > :50:46.Scotland. I cannot believe all of them wanted to leave. They have got
:50:47. > :50:51.a way of saying, we let them go. Do you have concerns, the point that
:50:52. > :50:55.was being made is, this is not closure of 65 front desks but a
:50:56. > :50:59.reduction of hours. Do you have concerns that this will be get above
:51:00. > :51:05.the iceberg, that has the years progress there will be more of
:51:06. > :51:08.these? Once the doors are locked to the public, it will not be long
:51:09. > :51:11.after that until someone says, we don't actually need these police
:51:12. > :51:16.stationed at all. We can deploy from a regional base. We see asset
:51:17. > :51:19.stripping of our local communities and that is dangerous, I am
:51:20. > :51:22.suggesting that the lease Scotland call a halt at the moment and go
:51:23. > :51:29.back to first base and quick communities about what they think.
:51:30. > :51:33.Do you have ideas of how you would save money? Because that is
:51:34. > :51:35.necessary. The Liberal Democrats have always said that the kind of
:51:36. > :51:43.savings that the SNP anticipated they would make would not be
:51:44. > :51:46.achievable without swinging cuts to what we have been used to in the
:51:47. > :51:50.police service and I think we need to take a step back from that. You
:51:51. > :51:58.think there will be more closures as time goes by? I don't imagine there
:51:59. > :52:02.would be. We have got to look at crime, it is that a 40 year low.
:52:03. > :52:09.More police on the street, that is what the public want. The public
:52:10. > :52:12.certainly tell me that they like to see police on the street. We will
:52:13. > :52:20.have to leave things there. And you for your time. Have you claimed back
:52:21. > :52:23.your PPI insurance, signed up for double glazing or been in an
:52:24. > :52:26.accident recently? Nuisance calls and spam texts have been the subject
:52:27. > :52:29.of 240,000 complaints to the Information Commissioner's Office in
:52:30. > :52:31.the past 18 months alone. -- thank you for your time. This week, an
:52:32. > :52:34.all-party parliamentary group at Westminster released its report into
:52:35. > :52:39.the issue and a Private Members' Bill was raised by Lib Dem MP Mike
:52:40. > :52:44.Crockart. Cameron Buttle has more. Some estimates put the number of
:52:45. > :52:46.nuisance calls into the millions. Everything from selling double
:52:47. > :52:54.glazing, wanting to know if you have had an accident to scams and cons. I
:52:55. > :53:00.work in a call centre. I make those phone calls. But I get them at home
:53:01. > :53:04.a lot. So you work in a call centre and you get them at home as well?
:53:05. > :53:12.How does that make you feel? Not good. I get angry at them, so to be
:53:13. > :53:15.the person doing them is not good. I am quite rude to people when they
:53:16. > :53:21.get through to me because I don't think they should be doing that. Why
:53:22. > :53:29.not? It is a violation of my space and time. One man has been calling
:53:30. > :53:33.me from the South African diamond exchange. I have tried to explain
:53:34. > :53:37.that I have no money, I invested in property five years ago, and he
:53:38. > :53:42.keeps calling me. He called me during the Manchester City game last
:53:43. > :53:48.week. It did not go down well. That is all I can say. Of course it is
:53:49. > :53:51.not just at home when we are subjected to the nuisance phone
:53:52. > :53:56.calls because mobile phones are being targeted just as much, with
:53:57. > :53:59.cold and texts. One MP behind this report claims the public is now
:54:00. > :54:05.under siege from nuisance phone calls. He said there. Matt that if
:54:06. > :54:08.nothing is done, the problem is going to get worse. The best figures
:54:09. > :54:17.we can come up with is from an Ofcom study. -- he said that if nothing is
:54:18. > :54:22.done. We have asked people to record when they get these calls. The
:54:23. > :54:26.figures are frightening. The size of the problem could well be over 1
:54:27. > :54:30.billion nuisance calls and text messages per year in the United
:54:31. > :54:34.Kingdom. The report from the all-party Parliamentary group made
:54:35. > :54:37.many recommendations. They include tightening the rules of the consent
:54:38. > :54:43.when people agree to be contacted by marketing companies. Making
:54:44. > :54:45.reporting easy and more effective, strategy to protect vulnerable
:54:46. > :54:52.customers, improving international cooperation. Call to action have
:54:53. > :54:55.been echoed by organisations like Which magazine which welcomed the
:54:56. > :55:00.report as it says the current system is failing and called for the law to
:55:01. > :55:06.be strengthened. The Private Members' Bill was due to be debated
:55:07. > :55:10.on Friday, but it got talked out by the preceding debate. So does that
:55:11. > :55:13.mean we are forever to be plagued by nuisance calls on our home phones
:55:14. > :55:15.and mobiles? Well, joining me now is Ken Macdonald from the Information
:55:16. > :55:18.Commissioner's Office. Good afternoon. RU disappointed that that
:55:19. > :55:21.Private Members' Bill did not get anywhere on Friday? Very
:55:22. > :55:23.disappointed that it was talked out and I understand there is an
:55:24. > :55:29.opportunity it will be brought in it this month. The nuisance calls and
:55:30. > :55:37.span text messages are a huge part of the work of the ICO. We have had
:55:38. > :55:41.a quarter of a million complaints in the last 18 months. It is an thing
:55:42. > :55:45.that hits every one day to day, whether they are at work or at home,
:55:46. > :55:51.I telephone or text message. What action specifically was in that bill
:55:52. > :55:54.that you would like to see enacted? The important thing is that they
:55:55. > :55:59.threshold for us to take enforcement action is rather high. It is to show
:56:00. > :56:04.absolute distress and often a text message or a phone call is it deemed
:56:05. > :56:07.to be too low a level. What Mike Crockart was proposing was to lower
:56:08. > :56:10.that threshold to more of the nuisance one and we support that.
:56:11. > :56:18.One of the problems we have had recently is that we levied a fine of
:56:19. > :56:23.over ?440,000 to a partnership which was spamming text messages.
:56:24. > :56:29.Unfortunately, they appealed and the tribunal held that the threshold had
:56:30. > :56:32.not been met despite the millions of text messages being sent out. Is
:56:33. > :56:39.there a place for this kind of marketing? Yes. We recognise that
:56:40. > :56:42.companies need to market, it is part of the business process, but they
:56:43. > :56:49.have to do it in an appropriate way and again, in reaction to the
:56:50. > :56:53.problems people are having, and more awareness of these issues, we have
:56:54. > :56:56.recently produced more guidance to companies that are involved in
:56:57. > :57:02.direct marketing about how they should be processing that. Does it
:57:03. > :57:05.actually work? Is anyone actually purchasing South African diamonds
:57:06. > :57:10.when you are busy at home making your cup of tea? Tell I cannot say
:57:11. > :57:14.whether it works or not. I hope people would understand whether
:57:15. > :57:17.there is a scam cult. It is the absolute intrusion that is taking
:57:18. > :57:26.place. The interruption of your normal domestic life I a call -- by
:57:27. > :57:30.a call for PPI or something. It is intrusive and something that needs
:57:31. > :57:33.to be stopped. The companies that are involved and it will possibly
:57:34. > :57:38.lose more customers than they gain by the way they are doing it. You
:57:39. > :57:41.have some responsibility, the Information Commissioner's Office,
:57:42. > :57:45.in terms of dealing with this but Ofgem have a role too. Is that part
:57:46. > :57:52.of the problem. If that governance and issue? I suspect there is an
:57:53. > :57:55.element of it but we also work with Ofcom and we are working with
:57:56. > :58:00.international partners as well because a lot of these calls are
:58:01. > :58:03.generated from overseas. And we are involved with our European partners
:58:04. > :58:07.and also with US and Canadian authorities looking at ways we can
:58:08. > :58:10.do this on an international basis. The reason that you and Ofcom are
:58:11. > :58:22.involved is because the governance and a lots are quite specific. --
:58:23. > :58:25.the laws. That is right. We deal with electronic unification is that
:58:26. > :58:29.specify what companies can and cannot do in relation to calls and
:58:30. > :58:33.text messages and e-mails. You mentioned your annoyance that he
:58:34. > :58:39.tribunal not actually following through and prosecuting a company.
:58:40. > :58:43.How many companies are actually held to the end contempt of these laws?
:58:44. > :58:55.Tell I cannot give you the precise numbers. We take action against the
:58:56. > :59:01.most prolific offenders. Their is the worst case so far. We find
:59:02. > :59:09.another company ?250,000. -- Tetris is the worst case. Another company
:59:10. > :59:12.was fined ?90,000. We see a decrease in number of complaints made to
:59:13. > :59:16.others after such an action, we suspect that because companies are
:59:17. > :59:19.aware that the action we can take. To you think sometimes the public at
:59:20. > :59:24.unwittingly giving permission or these calls and text to happen? If
:59:25. > :59:28.you look at competitions on television, there is bald print that
:59:29. > :59:38.says, they now in full at the end of your text to prevent this ban. --
:59:39. > :59:44.they say no information at the end of the text to prevent this sit am.
:59:45. > :59:52.There is confusion because some will ask you if you want to opt into
:59:53. > :59:55.marketing. -- this spam. We are trying to raise awareness with
:59:56. > :00:02.organisations and through the direct marketing Association, better ways
:00:03. > :00:06.of making this clear for the customers as to what they are
:00:07. > :00:12.signing up for. To you receive the calls? Yes. I understand the
:00:13. > :00:16.nuisance. It is very interesting. Thank you very much for talking to
:00:17. > :00:19.us. Croatia's ambassador to the UK has
:00:20. > :00:23.warned that trying to impose terms could slow down an independent
:00:24. > :00:28.Scotland's bid to become a member of the EU. Croatia became the 28th
:00:29. > :00:31.member of the club in July. The Scottish Government says
:00:32. > :00:34.negotiations could be concluded by spring 2016 if Scots vote for
:00:35. > :00:36.independence next year. But the ambassador, Ivan Grdesic, said
:00:37. > :00:47.seeking opt-outs from EU rules could prolong the process.
:00:48. > :00:52.In July, Croatia became the 28th member of the European Union. It
:00:53. > :00:55.took 13 years for this country of over 4 million people to emerge from
:00:56. > :01:01.the Balkan wars to become a full member of the European club. Before
:01:02. > :01:04.Croatia could become the European Union's latest member, they had to
:01:05. > :01:07.negotiate with the other countries in the union. Today their ambassador
:01:08. > :01:11.to the UK came to tell members of the Scottish Parliament and is done.
:01:12. > :01:16.After speaking to them, the ambassador stopped in for a word
:01:17. > :01:19.with the Sunday Politics. What is the key to being successful in those
:01:20. > :01:25.negotiations? What advice would you offer to other countries trying to
:01:26. > :01:29.do that? Our experience is that it is really not a negotiation process.
:01:30. > :01:33.You are actually joining the club that already has all the rules, or
:01:34. > :01:39.the regulations that you have to adopt. The question is how you will
:01:40. > :01:42.adopt them and what kind of a time frame you are working too, with what
:01:43. > :01:48.conditions and how you can sort of adopt them into your core of rules
:01:49. > :01:54.and regulations and institutions or arrangements. The Scottish
:01:55. > :01:59.Government said Scotland can take a fast track to EU membership. They
:02:00. > :02:03.say negotiations on issues like currency could be completed by
:02:04. > :02:17.spring 2016. But Croatia's man in London said securing those issues
:02:18. > :02:20.could tie Scotland down. You want to have a balance between how much you
:02:21. > :02:25.want to opt out or prolong and what you can take right away because if
:02:26. > :02:30.you decide to prolong many things or ask for exceptions on many issues,
:02:31. > :02:34.you are not ready actually. So for us it has been a balance between
:02:35. > :02:41.these two things and I think it is important to understand this and I
:02:42. > :02:47.remember reading a study that my Austrian colleagues told me, this is
:02:48. > :02:51.not a negotiation, it is something else. After voting and independence,
:02:52. > :02:54.Croatia had a separate referendum on the EU. The Scottish Government has
:02:55. > :02:59.no plans to follow their example. Despite the recent crisis, Ivan
:03:00. > :03:05.Grdesic says that Europe will welcome new members. -- will welcome
:03:06. > :03:09.new members. He says getting in will only get tougher. This is a policy
:03:10. > :03:13.that will continue. It will be a policy that is more stringent than
:03:14. > :03:20.the one that we experienced. We had a much tougher negotiation process,
:03:21. > :03:23.Romania, Bulgaria. The new countries will have even more. The European
:03:24. > :03:30.Union is learning on a process of enlargement. SNP ministers insist
:03:31. > :03:33.that Scotland is not a new country. But with no direct precedent to
:03:34. > :03:37.guide them, those planning for Scotland to become the EU's 29th
:03:38. > :03:44.member and listening carefully on the 28th.
:03:45. > :03:47.Coming up after the news: More on what's making the headlines this
:03:48. > :03:50.weekend with our guests - former Labour special adviser Jeane Freeman
:03:51. > :03:53.and Stephen McGinty of the Scotsman. You're watching Sunday Politics
:03:54. > :03:57.Scotland and the time is just after midday. Let's cross now for the news
:03:58. > :04:03.from Reporting Scotland with Andrew Kerr.
:04:04. > :04:06.Good afternoon. The Justice Secretary has announced an
:04:07. > :04:12.investment of ?3 million in the services and facilities for women
:04:13. > :04:15.offenders. The money will be used to establish new community justice
:04:16. > :04:17.centres in Glasgow and Aberdeen, as well as expand services in Edinburgh
:04:18. > :04:21.and Dundee. Seven other projects will also receive funding.
:04:22. > :04:24.The constituency Labour Party in Falkirk will meet this afternoon for
:04:25. > :04:29.the first time since the chairman resigned from his post at Ineos.
:04:30. > :04:32.Steven Deans was at the centre of the Grangemouth industrial dispute
:04:33. > :04:35.last month. He'd been suspended while Ineos investigated his
:04:36. > :04:38.involvement in the row over the selection of a Labour candidate in
:04:39. > :04:45.the Falkirk Westminster constituency.
:04:46. > :04:48.An Edinburgh GP who wrote a book after spending fourteen months at a
:04:49. > :04:51.research station in the south pole has won Scotland's largest literary
:04:52. > :04:53.prize. Gavin Francis won the thirty-thousand pounds Scottish
:04:54. > :05:04.Mortgage Investment Trust Book of the Year for "Empire Antarctica".
:05:05. > :05:08.Let's take a look at the weather forecast.
:05:09. > :05:11.Good afternoon. I think today we see the transition into more settled
:05:12. > :05:17.weather. Tomorrow will be a fine day. For most it is dry and bright,
:05:18. > :05:20.good sunshine as well. We still have some of yesterday's rain across this
:05:21. > :05:26.piece corner. It will affect the Northern Isles. A touch of gale
:05:27. > :05:31.force winds at times. Sunshine along the West Coast brought in by that
:05:32. > :05:35.wind. It will feel cool in that brisk wind, everywhere, with highs
:05:36. > :05:41.of eight or nine Celsius but make the most of the sunshine.
:05:42. > :05:44.That is all for the moment. Thanks, Andrew. Now in a moment,
:05:45. > :05:48.we'll be discussing what's making the news at Holyrood and beyond, but
:05:49. > :05:58.first, let's take a look back at the week in 60 seconds.
:05:59. > :06:04.Scotland is habits of Internet exchange point, a giant Google will
:06:05. > :06:11.be located in Edinburgh, spindles and London, and then Manchester.
:06:12. > :06:19.The left Karen Hilton was sworn in at Holyrood. She won at the
:06:20. > :06:23.Dunfermline 31 week ago. -- new MSP Karen Hilton.
:06:24. > :06:32.Universities were disrupted by a 24-hour strike. Support the strike!
:06:33. > :06:36.Nicolas and support staff took the action over pay.
:06:37. > :06:41.It may be years before taxpayers can recover their multi-billion pound
:06:42. > :06:48.stake in the Royal Bank of Scotland. Toxic assets but they were incensed.
:06:49. > :06:57.Referendum in we'll contact the following powers has been proposed
:06:58. > :07:02.by the British Government. The Welsh minister says it cannot happen
:07:03. > :07:05.before the Barnett formula is on. -- is the following.
:07:06. > :07:08.From the week gone by to the week ahead, and our take on the stories
:07:09. > :07:19.that might make political ripples over the next seven days.
:07:20. > :07:25.Join me in the studio is Stephen McGinty from the Scotsman and public
:07:26. > :07:29.relations consultant. Good afternoon. Let's talk a little bit
:07:30. > :07:38.about policing, the issue that the talking about at the beginning of
:07:39. > :07:47.the programme. This is art. In 65 -- front desk or two close in 65
:07:48. > :07:53.officers. Is the finishing with the public? Is not think so. Luckily the
:07:54. > :07:57.third but crime and people in the law and figures for them. What has
:07:58. > :08:01.moved ahead is the perception of the body on the beat of the uniformed
:08:02. > :08:04.officer behind the counter. -- Bea Barclay on the beat. Number of
:08:05. > :08:11.people using these facilities has brought down. With technologies,
:08:12. > :08:16.Internet, e-mail, phone calls, Twitter, all of us are discovering
:08:17. > :08:21.that you can sometimes get a swifter response than from driving in your
:08:22. > :08:26.car, tracking down one of these stations and making the appointment.
:08:27. > :08:30.I think that everyone's nature to automatically put any form of cuts
:08:31. > :08:36.but if they have to be made, it would seem that this is one area
:08:37. > :08:39.that there is some give. I wonder if you would agree with that? I do. I
:08:40. > :08:45.think it is about the police catching up with the most people in
:08:46. > :08:50.Scotland are. Of course, if you are in an emergency situation, you phone
:08:51. > :08:55.naming them. Nobody is taking that away. -- before the emergency
:08:56. > :08:59.services. Also you can phone the nonemergency number. The thing that
:09:00. > :09:07.people forget is that people now do what they call the codes. If I not
:09:08. > :09:13.without an emergency but about a bit of a concern about children in my
:09:14. > :09:16.area or anti-social behaviour, and I wanted to speak to the police about
:09:17. > :09:22.that now working, they will make an appointment to come and see me in
:09:23. > :09:33.five developed. House calls. --, and see me in my home. They do". The
:09:34. > :09:38.idea that this is something away from local policing could not be
:09:39. > :09:41.further from the truth. There are all sorts of ways that they lead a
:09:42. > :09:48.life that the police to come up with -- catch up with. Let's talk about
:09:49. > :09:53.Grangemouth at Falkirk. This is the rumbling on. The Sunday Herald have
:09:54. > :09:59.what they say is an exclusive party members telling Johann Lamont to
:10:00. > :10:04.break her silence. There is to be as meeting today. They called for her
:10:05. > :10:09.to climb out of that meeting. We spoke to her and she is not growing.
:10:10. > :10:14.-- because of how to turn up at that meeting. We think she has been
:10:15. > :10:17.silent? I do. I know that she has given an exclusive interview to
:10:18. > :10:21.another paper. The problem is that people like us, they pay a lot of
:10:22. > :10:25.attention to some of the detail about this and the vast majority of
:10:26. > :10:30.the public have got better things to do with their time than that. It is
:10:31. > :10:35.all part of a general mood music which is a problem for Labour, I
:10:36. > :10:40.think, which is the important things that happen in Scotland, like
:10:41. > :10:44.Grangemouth, where we had a weekend of thinking that we were about to
:10:45. > :10:49.lose even the important facility, that Labour was silent and all that.
:10:50. > :10:54.-- lose a very important facility. It is hard for Labour to clean the
:10:55. > :10:59.stand up for Scotland when they are not visible. They let whoever it is
:11:00. > :11:02.from London to take what is going on and people from Scotland are not
:11:03. > :11:05.like that. It is from London to take what is going on and people from
:11:06. > :11:08.Scotland are not like that. It looks as if there is more of this story to
:11:09. > :11:10.come because we have Len McCluskey earlier with Andrew Neil saying that
:11:11. > :11:19.some new revelations in the Sunday Times are to, this is part of an old
:11:20. > :11:23.story. There are still questions remaining four Johann Lamont and
:11:24. > :11:30.live in London. It would seem that people are wanting to know what has
:11:31. > :11:35.gone on. Did you ever get to the bottom of it and then decide they
:11:36. > :11:40.did not want to win a further? Unite involved? Strong-arming people not
:11:41. > :11:44.to come forward? -- did not want it to go any further. The irony is that
:11:45. > :11:49.it has been such a disaster for all parties concerned that makes sense
:11:50. > :11:54.to try and get out exactly what happened. It is not going away. It
:11:55. > :11:57.is unfortunate for Scottish Labour because it is viewed as a reserved
:11:58. > :12:01.matter where they are on the sidelines waiting to see what London
:12:02. > :12:06.is going to do. That does not look good for anybody. Undoubtedly, the
:12:07. > :12:10.story is going to ramble on for another few days. More in that on
:12:11. > :12:17.the week to come. Also, the First Minister is off to China for a trade
:12:18. > :12:21.with that. It is one of several trade visits from not just him but
:12:22. > :12:26.other Scottish ministers. This week, Willie Rennie talked about the issue
:12:27. > :12:29.of human rights. It is always a difficult balancing act with China
:12:30. > :12:34.with trade and human rights. That is true. I think you need to
:12:35. > :12:39.understand, we need to understand a little but about how the Chinese
:12:40. > :12:47.cultural works. The importance they have want be losing face, as they
:12:48. > :12:56.might discredit. -- they have a losing. It would not work for us as
:12:57. > :12:58.the country to make statements about human rights when we are looking at
:12:59. > :13:03.a potential trading partner. That does not mean that you are seeing
:13:04. > :13:05.things behind the scenes, as has been the case with British diplomacy
:13:06. > :13:10.for years and years. In Scotland, I think the point is that we need a
:13:11. > :13:16.senior politicians, First Minister and others, to constantly making
:13:17. > :13:19.those visits and efforts, building up those relationships to become
:13:20. > :13:24.trusted, not only from the purpose of trade and our future prospects
:13:25. > :13:29.but also for we can have those discussions about what a civilised
:13:30. > :13:35.society looks like from the sea. Google 's discussions change
:13:36. > :13:38.anything? I think the evidence is clearly not. -- to those
:13:39. > :13:43.discussions. The Scottish Government wants to go over there and not its
:13:44. > :13:48.prime concern is not about raising the issue of Tibet or the Dalai
:13:49. > :13:52.Lama, it wants to increase exports, which have already doubled in the
:13:53. > :13:58.last five years to almost 500 million. That is the prime concern.
:13:59. > :14:02.Is that the right concern, ultimately? Some people think that
:14:03. > :14:07.actually what happens in China is maybe none of my business. We live
:14:08. > :14:13.in an interconnected society and I think that it's crucial that it is
:14:14. > :14:16.raised in some elements but there is that dilemma but can politicians be
:14:17. > :14:19.honest and say this is not the time and place for us to bring this up.
:14:20. > :14:24.Although the budget by saying they will have conversations in private?
:14:25. > :14:27.How expensive they are, we did not know. But I thank you all for coming
:14:28. > :14:31.in today. That's all from us this week. We'll be back a little later
:14:32. > :14:32.than usual next week, at 12:15pm, due to Remembrance Sunday. Until
:14:33. > :14:38.then, goodbye.