17/11/2013

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:00:35. > :00:39.Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Downing Street announces an inquiry

:00:40. > :00:44.into allegations of hardball tactics and intimidation by unions in

:00:45. > :00:47.industrial disputes. That's our top story.

:00:48. > :00:50.Thousands dead. Hundreds of thousands without homes. Millions

:00:51. > :00:55.affected. What is Britain doing to help the Philippines in the wake of

:00:56. > :01:00.Typhoon Haiyan? We'll ask International Development Secretary

:01:01. > :01:03.Justine Greening. Winter is coming and so, it seems,

:01:04. > :01:06.is another crisis in England's hospitals. I'll be asking the Shadow

:01:07. > :01:12.Health Secretary how he'd put a stop to the NHS's annual woes.

:01:13. > :01:15.And on Sunday Politics Scotland: We'll be asking the Scottish Health

:01:16. > :01:17.Secretary, Alex Neil, if hospitals here will be able to cope with the

:01:18. > :01:39.pressures of the winter months. Janan Ganesh, Nick Watt and this

:01:40. > :01:43.week, Zoe Williams, who'll be tweeting their thoughts throughout

:01:44. > :01:47.the programme. The Government has announced a

:01:48. > :01:49.review to investigate what the Prime Minister has called "industrial

:01:50. > :02:01.intimidation" by trade union activists. Bruce Carr QC will chair

:02:02. > :02:04.a panel to examine allegations of the kind of tactics that came to

:02:05. > :02:07.light during the Grangemouth dispute, when the Unite union took

:02:08. > :02:14.their protests - replete with a giant rat - outside the family homes

:02:15. > :02:18.of the firms' bosses. Earlier this morning the Cabinet office minister,

:02:19. > :02:23.Francis Maude spoke to the BBC and this is what he had to say. To look

:02:24. > :02:27.at whether the law currently works and see if it is ineffective in

:02:28. > :02:32.preventing the kind of intimidatory activity that was alleged to have

:02:33. > :02:41.taken place around range mouth during the previous disputes --

:02:42. > :02:46.Grangemouth. We make no presumptions at the beginning of this. I do think

:02:47. > :02:50.it is a responsible thing for the government to establish what

:02:51. > :02:55.happened and really do a proper review into whether the law is

:02:56. > :03:01.adequate to meet the needs. That was Francis Maude. This is a purely

:03:02. > :03:06.political move, isn't it? Unite did this a couple of times, it is hardly

:03:07. > :03:09.happening all over the country but the government want to say, we are

:03:10. > :03:16.prepared to investigate Unite properly, Labour isn't. This seemed

:03:17. > :03:22.a lot worse when I thought it was a real rat. I thought it was a giant

:03:23. > :03:26.dead rat. I am not sure if you know much about rats but real rats are

:03:27. > :03:32.not this big, even the ones in London. The thing is, obviously it

:03:33. > :03:38.is naked politics but I think it is more intelligent than it looks. They

:03:39. > :03:43.are trying to taint Miliband as a week union puppet and that doesn't

:03:44. > :03:49.really wash. They hammer away with it and it might wash for some

:03:50. > :03:53.people. But it really castrates Miliband in the important issues he

:03:54. > :03:56.has to tackle. Zero hours, living wage, all of those things in which

:03:57. > :04:03.he needs to be in concert with the unions, and to use their expertise.

:04:04. > :04:15.He is making them absolutely toxic to go anywhere near. It keeps the

:04:16. > :04:18.Unite story alive, have to kill -- particularly since Mr Miller band is

:04:19. > :04:33.under pressure to reopen the investigation into what Unite are up

:04:34. > :04:36.to -- Mr Miliband. They are frustrated, not only at the BBC but

:04:37. > :04:40.the media generally at what they think is a lack of coverage. I see

:04:41. > :04:45.the political rationale from that respect. There is a risk. There are

:04:46. > :04:51.union members who either vote Tory or are open to the idea of voting

:04:52. > :05:04.Tory. All Lib Dem. If the party comes across as too zealous in as --

:05:05. > :05:11.its antipathy, there is an electoral consequence. Ed Miliband has been

:05:12. > :05:16.careful to keep a distance. Yes, they depend on vast amounts of

:05:17. > :05:19.money. When Len McCluskey had a real go at the Blairites, Ed Miliband was

:05:20. > :05:22.straight out there with a very strong statement. Essentially Len

:05:23. > :05:27.McCluskey wanted Blairites in the shadow cabinet sacked and Ed

:05:28. > :05:33.Miliband was keen to distance himself or for that is why it is not

:05:34. > :05:37.quite sticking. Another story in the Sunday papers this morning, the Mail

:05:38. > :05:43.on Sunday got hold of some e-mails. When I saw the headline I thought it

:05:44. > :05:48.was a huge cache of e-mails, it turns out to be a couple. They peel

:05:49. > :05:56.away the cover on the relationship between Ed Miliband and Ed Balls,

:05:57. > :06:02.with some of Ed Miliband's cohorts describing what Mr balls is trying

:06:03. > :06:07.to do as a nightmare. How bad are the relations? They are pretty bad

:06:08. > :06:10.and these e-mails confirm the biggest open signal in Westminster,

:06:11. > :06:16.which is that relations are pretty tense, -- open secret. That Ed

:06:17. > :06:21.Miliband doesn't feel that Ed Balls is acknowledging the economy has

:06:22. > :06:28.grown that Labour needs to admit to past mistakes. The sort of great

:06:29. > :06:36.open signal is confirmed. On a scale of 1-10, assuming that Blair-Brown

:06:37. > :06:40.was ten. I think it is between six and seven. They occupy this joint

:06:41. > :06:46.suite of offices that George Cameron and -- David Cameron and George

:06:47. > :06:50.Osborne had. It is not just on the economy that there were tensions,

:06:51. > :06:56.there were clearly tensions over HS2, Ed Balls put a huge question

:06:57. > :07:00.over it at his conference. There will be more tensions when it comes

:07:01. > :07:04.to the third runway because my information is that Mr balls wants

:07:05. > :07:10.to do it and Ed Miliband almost resigned over it when he was in

:07:11. > :07:13.government. I don't think Ed Miliband is thinking very

:07:14. > :07:19.politically because he has tried live without Ed Balls and that is

:07:20. > :07:23.not tenable either. -- life without. He has defined a way of making it

:07:24. > :07:28.work. That is where Tony Blair had the edge on any modern politician.

:07:29. > :07:32.He didn't want to make Ed Balls his Shadow Chancellor, he had to.

:07:33. > :07:35.Somebody said to him, if you make Ed Balls Shadow Chancellor, that will

:07:36. > :07:45.be the last decision you take as leader of the Labour Party. Is it as

:07:46. > :07:56.bad? I was surprised at how tame the e-mails were. At the FT it is

:07:57. > :08:01.compulsory, one French word per sentence! To call him a nightmare,

:08:02. > :08:06.compared to what they are willing to say in briefings, conversations,

:08:07. > :08:09.bits of frustrations they express verbally come what is documented in

:08:10. > :08:15.the e-mails is actually pretty light. It has been a grim week for

:08:16. > :08:17.the people of the Philippines as they count the cost of the

:08:18. > :08:24.devastation wrought by Typhoon Haiyan. HMS Daring has just arrived

:08:25. > :08:28.near the worst hit areas - part of Britain's contribution to bring aid

:08:29. > :08:32.to the country. It has been one of the worst natural

:08:33. > :08:35.disasters in the history of the Philippines. Typhoon Haiyan hit the

:08:36. > :08:40.country nine days ago, leaving devastation in its wake. The numbers

:08:41. > :08:45.involved are shocking. The official death toll is over 3600 people, with

:08:46. > :08:49.many thousands more unaccounted for. More than half a million people have

:08:50. > :08:54.lost their homes and the UN estimates 11 million have been

:08:55. > :08:57.affected. David Cameron announced on Friday that the UK government is to

:08:58. > :09:04.give an extra ?30 million in aid, taking the total British figure ?250

:09:05. > :09:07.million. An RAF Sea 17 aircraft landed yesterday with equipment to

:09:08. > :09:13.help aid workers get too hard to reach areas. HMS Illustrious is on

:09:14. > :09:20.its way and due to arrive next weekend. The British public have

:09:21. > :09:25.once again dipped into their pockets and given generously. They have

:09:26. > :09:27.given more than ?30 million to the Disasters Emergency Committee.

:09:28. > :09:31.The International Development Secretary, Justine Greening, joins

:09:32. > :09:35.me now for the Sunday Interview. Good morning, Secretary of State.

:09:36. > :09:40.How much of the ?50 million that the government has allocated has got

:09:41. > :09:44.through so far? All of it has landed on the ground now. HMS Daring has

:09:45. > :09:48.turned up, that will be able to start getting help out to some of

:09:49. > :09:50.those more outlying islands that have been hard to reach. We have

:09:51. > :09:55.those more outlying islands that seen Save the Children and Oxfam

:09:56. > :10:01.really being able to get aid out on the ground. We have a plane taking

:10:02. > :10:04.off today that will not read just carrying out more equipment to help

:10:05. > :10:11.clear the roads but will also have their staff on board, too. We have

:10:12. > :10:17.?50 million of aid actually on the ground? We instantly chartered

:10:18. > :10:23.flights directly from Dubai where we have preprepared human Terry and

:10:24. > :10:30.supplies, and started humanity work -- humanitarian supplies.

:10:31. > :10:37.A lot of it has now arrived. I think we have done a huge amount so far.

:10:38. > :10:42.We have gone beyond just providing humanitarian supplies, to getting

:10:43. > :10:46.the Royal Air Force involved. They have helped us to get equipment out

:10:47. > :10:51.there quickly. We have HMS Illustrious sailing over there now.

:10:52. > :10:55.Why has that taken so long? It was based in the Gulf and is not going

:10:56. > :10:58.to get there until two weeks after the storm first hit and that is the

:10:59. > :11:03.one ship we have with lots of helicopters. The first decision we

:11:04. > :11:08.took was to make sure we could get the fastest vessel out there that

:11:09. > :11:11.was able to help HMS Daring. HMS Illustrious was just finishing an

:11:12. > :11:15.exercise and planning to start to head back towards the UK. We have

:11:16. > :11:21.said to not do that, and diverted it. Shouldn't it have happened more

:11:22. > :11:26.quickly? We took the decisions as fast as we were able to, you can't

:11:27. > :11:30.just turn a big warship around like the HMS Illustrious. We made sure we

:11:31. > :11:35.took those decisions and that is while it will be taking over from

:11:36. > :11:40.HMS Daring come and that is why HMS Daring is ready there. It will be

:11:41. > :11:44.able to provide key support and expertise that has not been there so

:11:45. > :11:50.far. The US Navy is doing the heavy lifting here. The US Navy had the

:11:51. > :11:55.USS Washington, there is an aircraft carrier, 80 planes, 5000 personnel

:11:56. > :11:58.and they have the fleet, they are doing the real work. We obviously

:11:59. > :12:03.helping but the Americans are taking the lead. It is a big international

:12:04. > :12:07.effort. Countries like the US and the UK, that have a broader ability

:12:08. > :12:15.to support that goes beyond simply call humanitarian supplies -- have

:12:16. > :12:20.made sure we have brought our logistics knowledge, we have sent

:12:21. > :12:25.out our naval vessels. It shows we are working across government to

:12:26. > :12:32.respond to this crisis. Why does only just over 4% of your aid budget

:12:33. > :12:37.go on emergency disaster and response? A lot depends on what

:12:38. > :12:42.crises hit in any given year. We have done a huge amount, responding

:12:43. > :12:46.to the crisis in Syria, the conflict there and the fact we have 2 million

:12:47. > :12:50.refugees who have fled the country. We are part of an international

:12:51. > :12:55.effort in supporting them. Shouldn't we beginning more money to that

:12:56. > :12:59.rather than some of the other programmes where it is harder to see

:13:00. > :13:05.the results question of if we were to give more money to the refugees,

:13:06. > :13:10.it would be a visible result. We could see an improvement in the

:13:11. > :13:15.lives of children, men and women. What we need to do is alongside that

:13:16. > :13:20.is stop those situations from happening in the first place. A lot

:13:21. > :13:22.of our development spend is helping countries to stay stable. Look at

:13:23. > :13:28.some of the work we are doing in Somalia, much more sensible. Not

:13:29. > :13:33.just from an immigration but there is a threat perspective. There is a

:13:34. > :13:38.lot of terrorism coming from Somalia. You only have to look at

:13:39. > :13:44.Kenya recently to see that. Which is why you talk about what we do with

:13:45. > :13:48.the rest of the spend. It is why it is responsible to work with the

:13:49. > :13:54.government of Somalia. Should we give more, bigger part of the budget

:13:55. > :13:59.to disaster relief or not? I think we get it about right, we have to be

:14:00. > :14:05.flexible and we are. This Philippine relief is on top of the work in

:14:06. > :14:09.Syria. Where can you show me a correlation between us giving aid to

:14:10. > :14:15.some failed nation, or nearly failed nation, and that cutting down on

:14:16. > :14:17.terrorism? If you look at the work we have done in Pakistan, a huge

:14:18. > :14:24.amount of work. Some of it short-term. It is written by

:14:25. > :14:32.terrorism. That is -- ridden by terrorism. That is not going to fix

:14:33. > :14:41.it self in a sense. Look at the work that we do in investing in

:14:42. > :14:48.education. The things that little girls like Malala talk about as

:14:49. > :14:54.being absolutely key. We are ramping up our aid to Pakistan, it will be

:14:55. > :14:59.close to half ?1 billion by the time of the election. Why should British

:15:00. > :15:07.taxpayers be giving half ?1 billion to a country where only 0.5% of

:15:08. > :15:16.people in Pakistan pay income tax, and 70% of their own MPs don't pay

:15:17. > :15:20.income tax. It is a good point and that is why we have been working

:15:21. > :15:30.with their tax revenue authority to help them increase that and push

:15:31. > :15:36.forward the tax reform. You are right, and I have setup a team that

:15:37. > :15:41.will go out and work with many of these countries so they can raise

:15:42. > :15:54.their own revenues. You really think you will raise the amount of tax by

:15:55. > :15:59.sending out the British HRM see? How many troops I we sending out to

:16:00. > :16:07.protect them? They don't need troops. We make sure that we have a

:16:08. > :16:17.duty of care alongside our staff, but we have to respond to any crisis

:16:18. > :16:23.like the Philippines, and alongside other countries we have two work

:16:24. > :16:28.alongside them so that they can reinvest in their own public

:16:29. > :16:34.services. If they can create their own taxes, will we stop paying aid?

:16:35. > :16:39.We need to look at that but the new Pakistan Government has been very

:16:40. > :16:47.clear it is a priority and we will be helping them in pursuing that.

:16:48. > :16:54.Let me show you a picture. Who are these young women? I don't know, I'm

:16:55. > :16:58.sure you are about to tell me. They are the Ethiopian Spice Girls and

:16:59. > :17:05.I'm surprised you don't know because they have only managed to become so

:17:06. > :17:11.famous because your department has financed them to the tune of ?4

:17:12. > :17:14.million. All of the work we do with women on the ground, making sure

:17:15. > :17:21.they have a voice in their local communities, making sure they have

:17:22. > :17:30.some control over what happens to their own bodies in terms of

:17:31. > :17:36.tackling FGM, female genital mutilation... Did you know your

:17:37. > :17:43.department has spent ?4 million on the Ethiopian Spice Girls? Yes, I

:17:44. > :17:48.do, and we have to work with girls and show them there is a life ahead

:17:49. > :17:52.of them with opportunity and potential that goes beyond what many

:17:53. > :17:57.of them will experience, which includes early and forced marriage.

:17:58. > :18:09.It is part of the work we do with local communities to change

:18:10. > :18:12.attitudes everything you have just said is immeasurable, and they

:18:13. > :18:17.broadcast on a radio station that doesn't reach most of the country so

:18:18. > :18:25.it cannot have the impact. It only reaches 20 million people and the

:18:26. > :18:33.project has been condemned saying there were serious inefficiencies.

:18:34. > :18:37.That aid report was done a while ago now, and it was talking about the

:18:38. > :18:41.project when it first got going, and a lot of improvements have happened

:18:42. > :18:45.since. I would go back to the point that we are working in very

:18:46. > :18:50.difficult environments where we are trying to get longer term change on

:18:51. > :18:54.the ground and that means working directly with communities but also

:18:55. > :19:00.investing for the long-term, investing in some of these girls

:19:01. > :19:06.start changing attitudes in them and their communities. Why does the

:19:07. > :19:18.British taxpayers spend ?5 million on a Bangladesh version of Question

:19:19. > :19:23.Time? We work with the BBC to make sure we can get accountabilities...

:19:24. > :19:44.That is bigger then the BBC Question Time Normal -- budget. That includes

:19:45. > :19:51.the cost of David Dimbleby's tattoo! We are working to improve

:19:52. > :19:54.people's prospects but also we are working to improve their ability to

:19:55. > :19:58.hold their governments to account so that when they are not getting

:19:59. > :20:02.services on the ground, they have ways they can raise those concerns

:20:03. > :20:08.with the people who are there to deliver services for them. In your

:20:09. > :20:15.own personal view, should the next Conservative Government, if there is

:20:16. > :20:19.one, should you continue to ring fence spending on foreign aid? But

:20:20. > :20:25.it is critical that if we are going to spend 7.7% of our national

:20:26. > :20:30.income, we should make sure it is in our national interest and that means

:20:31. > :20:35.having a clear approach to humanitarian responses, in keeping

:20:36. > :20:40.the country safe, and a clearer approach on helping drive economic

:20:41. > :20:46.development and jobs so there is a long-term end of the dependency. Do

:20:47. > :20:54.you believe in an shrine in the percentage of our GDP that goes on

:20:55. > :21:00.foreign aid in law? Yes, and that is a coalition agreement. There have

:21:01. > :21:05.been a lot of agreements that you are sceptical about ring fencing. We

:21:06. > :21:16.are focused on shaking up the economy and improving our public

:21:17. > :21:25.finances. Why haven't you done that? At the end of the day we will be

:21:26. > :21:32.accountable but we are committed to doing that. You are running out of

:21:33. > :21:36.time, will you do it? I hope we can find the Parliamentary time, but

:21:37. > :21:44.even if we don't, we have acted as if that law is in place and we have

:21:45. > :21:47.already met 0.7% commitment. If you are British voter that doesn't

:21:48. > :21:55.believe that we should enshrine that in by law, which means that with a

:21:56. > :21:59.growing economy foreign aid will rise by definition, and if you think

:22:00. > :22:03.we should be spending less money on the Ethiopian Spice Girls, for whom

:22:04. > :22:10.should you wrote in the next election? I think we have a very

:22:11. > :22:17.sensible approach. I don't know what the various party manifestoes... The

:22:18. > :22:23.only party who thinks we shouldn't be doing this is UKIP. I think you

:22:24. > :22:36.have to look at the response to both the Philippines crisis and Children

:22:37. > :22:41.In Need. Of all the steps we are taking to get the country back on

:22:42. > :22:46.track, it shows the British people will respond to need when they need

:22:47. > :22:53.it and it is one of the things that makes Britain's special.

:22:54. > :22:55.Thank you. "It's always winter but never Christmas" - that's how

:22:56. > :22:57.doctors describe life inside accident and emergency. The College

:22:58. > :23:02.of Emergency Medicine have warned that this year could bring the

:23:03. > :23:04."worst crisis on record". If that dire prediction comes, expect a

:23:05. > :23:09.spring of political recriminations, but how prepared are the NHS in

:23:10. > :23:16.England? And what do they make of this autumnal speculation? Giles has

:23:17. > :23:21.been to Leeds to find out. This winter has already come to our

:23:22. > :23:30.hospitals. It had an official start date, November the 3rd. That is when

:23:31. > :23:35.weekly updates are delivered to the NHS's most senior planners, alerting

:23:36. > :23:43.them to any sudden changes in patient numbers coming in. Where do

:23:44. > :23:48.they numbers register most then A They are the barometer for what

:23:49. > :23:53.is going on everywhere else, and they are the pressure point, so if

:23:54. > :23:59.the system is beginning to struggle then it is in the A department

:24:00. > :24:05.that we see the problems. It is not that the problems are the A

:24:06. > :24:11.departments, but they are the place where it all comes together. Plans

:24:12. > :24:16.to tackle those problems start being drawn up in May and they look at

:24:17. > :24:29.trends, even taking notice of any flu epidemics in New Zealand. They

:24:30. > :24:34.also look at the amount of bets. But the weather, economic realities,

:24:35. > :24:38.structural reforms, and changes to the general health of the

:24:39. > :24:43.population, are all factors they have to consider. We get huge

:24:44. > :24:49.amounts of information through the winter in order to help the NHS be

:24:50. > :24:52.the best it can be, but we had to redouble our efforts this year

:24:53. > :24:59.because we expected to be a difficult winter. We know the NHS is

:25:00. > :25:04.stretched so we are working hard to be as good as we can be. That means

:25:05. > :25:11.they are looking at winter staffing levels, plans to ask for help from

:25:12. > :25:15.neighbouring hospitals, and dovetailing help with GP surgeries,

:25:16. > :25:22.and still having the ability to move up an extra gear, a rehearsed

:25:23. > :25:28.emergency plan if the NHS had to face a major disease pandemic. You

:25:29. > :25:32.spend any time in any of our hospitals and you realise the NHS

:25:33. > :25:36.knows that winter is coming and they are making plans, but you also get a

:25:37. > :25:41.palpable feeling amongst health workers across the entire system

:25:42. > :25:47.that they do get fed up of being used as a political football.

:25:48. > :25:51.Doctors and all health care professionals are frustrated about

:25:52. > :25:57.the politics that surrounds the NHS in health care. They go to work to

:25:58. > :26:03.treat patients as best as they can, and the political knock-about does

:26:04. > :26:06.not help anyone. I find it frustrating when there is a

:26:07. > :26:12.commentary that suggests the NHS does not planned, when it is

:26:13. > :26:16.surprised by winter, and wherever that comes from it is hard to take,

:26:17. > :26:27.knowing how much we do nationally and how much our hard working front

:26:28. > :26:34.line staff are doing. When the Coalition have recently tried to

:26:35. > :26:40.open up the NHS to be a more independent body, it is clear the

:26:41. > :26:46.NHS feel they have had an unhealthy dose of political wrangling between

:26:47. > :26:51.parties on policy. The NHS is not infallible or making any guarantees,

:26:52. > :26:54.but they seem confident that they and their patients can survive the

:26:55. > :26:56.winter. Joining me now from Salford in the

:26:57. > :27:07.Shadow Health Secretary, Andy Burnham. Tell me this, if you were

:27:08. > :27:14.health secretary now, you just took over in an emergency election, what

:27:15. > :27:21.would you do to avoid another winter crisis? I would immediately halt the

:27:22. > :27:27.closure of NHS walk-in centres. We heard this week that around one in

:27:28. > :27:32.four walk-in centres are closed so it makes no sense whatsoever for the

:27:33. > :27:37.Government to allow the continued closure of them. I would put nurses

:27:38. > :27:43.back on the end of phones and restore an NHS direct style service.

:27:44. > :27:50.The new 111 service is not in a position to provide help to people

:27:51. > :27:56.this winter. I think the time has come to rethink how the NHS care is

:27:57. > :28:00.particularly for older people so I propose the full integration of

:28:01. > :28:05.health and social care. It cannot make any sense any more to have this

:28:06. > :28:10.approach where we cut social care and let elderly people drift to

:28:11. > :28:19.hospitals in greater numbers. We have two rethink it as a whole

:28:20. > :28:22.service. So you would repeal some of the Tory reforms and move

:28:23. > :28:28.commissioning to local authorities so the NHS should brace itself for

:28:29. > :28:33.another major top-down health reorganisation? No, unlike Andrew

:28:34. > :28:45.Lansley I will work with the organisations ie inherit. He could

:28:46. > :28:49.work with primary care trusts but he turned it upside down when it needed

:28:50. > :29:03.stability. I will not do that but I will repeal the health and social

:29:04. > :29:07.care act because last week we heard that hospitals and health services

:29:08. > :29:12.cannot get on and make sensible merger collaborations because of

:29:13. > :29:17.this nonsense now that the NHS is bound by competition law. Let me get

:29:18. > :29:21.your views on a number of ideas that have been floated either by the

:29:22. > :29:31.press or the Coalition. We haven't got much time. Do you welcome the

:29:32. > :29:40.plan to bring back named GPs for over 75s? Yes, but it has got harder

:29:41. > :29:42.to get the GP appointment under this Government because David Cameron

:29:43. > :29:48.scrapped the 48-hour guarantee that Tony Blair brought in. He was

:29:49. > :29:53.challenged in the 2005 election about the difficulty of getting a GP

:29:54. > :29:57.appointment, and Tony Blair brought in the commitment that people should

:29:58. > :30:04.be able to get that within 48 hours. That has now been scrapped.

:30:05. > :30:08.Do you welcome the idea of allowing everyone to choose their own GP

:30:09. > :30:15.surgery even if it is not in our traditional catchment area? I

:30:16. > :30:20.proposed that just before the last election, so yes. Do you welcome the

:30:21. > :30:25.idea of how a practice is being rated being a matter of public

:30:26. > :30:31.record, and of us knowing how much, at least from the NHS, our GP earns?

:30:32. > :30:35.Of course, every political party supports transparency in the NHS.

:30:36. > :30:40.More information for the public of that kind is a good thing. Do you

:30:41. > :30:47.welcome this plan to make it will form the collect in an NHS hospital

:30:48. > :30:52.-- make wilful neglect a criminal offence. It is important to say you

:30:53. > :30:56.can't pick and mix these recommendations, you can't say we

:30:57. > :31:00.will have that one and not the others. It was a balanced package

:31:01. > :31:04.that Sir Robert Francis put forward. My message is that it must be

:31:05. > :31:09.permitted in full. If we are to learn the lessons, the whole package

:31:10. > :31:14.must be addressed, and that includes safe staffing levels across the NHS.

:31:15. > :31:45.Staff have a responsible to two patients at the government

:31:46. > :31:53.People forget that when it came in, there was a shortage of GPs. Some

:31:54. > :31:57.people but lack the contract helped that. What I would say is that this

:31:58. > :32:03.myth that the government has built all year that the 2004 GP contract

:32:04. > :32:11.is responsible for the ANC crisis is eight spin of the worst kind. --

:32:12. > :32:16.A You would we do that contract now? It was redone in our time in

:32:17. > :32:26.government and changed to make it better government -- value for

:32:27. > :32:33.money. Not so great if you cannot get 24-hour access to your practice.

:32:34. > :32:37.I agree with that, but we brought in evening and weekend opening for

:32:38. > :32:41.GPs, another thing that is gone into reverse under Mr Cameron. It is

:32:42. > :32:47.harder to get a GP appointment under him and that is one reason why it

:32:48. > :32:51.A are under pressure. Two things that aren't on dealer direct sphere

:32:52. > :32:56.of your portfolio, what do you make of the government's review into

:32:57. > :33:01.intimidator eat tactics used by unions? If there has been

:33:02. > :33:06.intimidation, it is unacceptable and it should apply to unions as well as

:33:07. > :33:11.to employees. Was unite wrong to turn up at that manager 's house? I

:33:12. > :33:15.don't know the details of that. Presumably, the review will look

:33:16. > :33:20.into it. I need reassurance that this is not a political call by Mr

:33:21. > :33:25.Cameron designed to report here the election. We will see how it

:33:26. > :33:32.develops. Are you sponsored by Unite? No. Do you get any money from

:33:33. > :33:40.unite all for yourself or for your constituency office? No. It seems

:33:41. > :33:43.most others seem to be getting something from Unite, it seems odd

:33:44. > :33:48.that you don't get anything, I will put in a word with Len McCluskey.

:33:49. > :33:52.What I think is the scandal with funding is that to private health

:33:53. > :33:57.care companies who between them have given ?1.5 million in donations to

:33:58. > :34:01.the Tory parties have won ?1.5 billion in NHS contracts since the

:34:02. > :34:05.last election, I wonder why don't spend as much time talking about

:34:06. > :34:10.that as you do on trade union funding. We are happy to talk about

:34:11. > :34:16.that as well do you know. Briefly and finally, we see some -- from

:34:17. > :34:20.some e-mails that Mr Miliband's closest advisers regard Mr Ed Balls

:34:21. > :34:26.as a bit of a nightmare, quote, do you think there is a nightmare? No,

:34:27. > :34:30.I don't. He is a very good friend and I cannot believe, to be honest,

:34:31. > :34:34.that you are talking about those e-mails on a political programme, my

:34:35. > :34:38.goodness, you are busy scraping the barrel today. I had been on the

:34:39. > :34:43.front line for 20 years, I cannot under the front bench and indeed the

:34:44. > :34:47.wider party be as united as it is today, that is a great credit to Ed

:34:48. > :34:54.Miliband and Ed Balls. We are a united team. It was worth spending a

:34:55. > :34:58.few seconds just to establish that you are not having nightmares, we

:34:59. > :35:03.wouldn't want the Shadow Health Secretary to have them. It has just

:35:04. > :35:11.gone 11:30am, you are watching Sunday Politics.

:35:12. > :35:18.Good morning and welcome to Sunday Politics Scotland. Coming up on the

:35:19. > :35:21.programme: Experts from across the UK are gathering here in Edinburgh

:35:22. > :35:24.at the Royal College of Physicians to discuss the problem, we will look

:35:25. > :35:28.at the answer. They've called for an end to

:35:29. > :35:31.patient's being farmed out to the wrong wards and for the NHS to be

:35:32. > :35:34.fully operational seven days a week. We'll put that to the Health

:35:35. > :35:37.Secretary Alex Neil. And from Cameron wearing a condom to

:35:38. > :35:41.Salmond with his saltire, the wit and lampooning of political figures

:35:42. > :35:45.over the centuries. A group of medical experts is this

:35:46. > :35:48.morning calling for an end to the practice of boarding in the NHS,

:35:49. > :35:51.that's when patients are farmed out to wards inappropriate for their

:35:52. > :35:54.care when hospitals are busy. Research indicates being treated in

:35:55. > :35:59.the wrong ward makes you more likely to die. At a time when NHS services

:36:00. > :36:01.are facing increasing pressure, the specialists are calling for

:36:02. > :36:13.clinicians and support staff to extend seven-day working. Here's

:36:14. > :36:15.Andrew Kerr. It is coming up to that time of year, when the pressure on

:36:16. > :36:19.the NHS. The Scottish government admitted

:36:20. > :36:25.that they need to improve norovirus and flew at eight indeed

:36:26. > :36:30.departments. Doctors say they are now experiencing winter pressure all

:36:31. > :36:37.year around. The Royal College of Physicians of Edinburgh is

:36:38. > :36:44.concerned. They say 124% bed occupancy in Fife was reported and

:36:45. > :36:46.101% in Lothian. A symptom of this overcapacity is boarding, patients

:36:47. > :36:53.being farmed out to ward inappropriate for their care.

:36:54. > :36:57.Research shows that patients are looked after in the wrong department

:36:58. > :37:03.are at a greater risk of dying. Patients who are boarded, they have

:37:04. > :37:09.significantly increased length of stay, risk of readmission and

:37:10. > :37:13.mortality at 30 days compared to patients who aren't boarded. It is a

:37:14. > :37:18.major problem. Experts have been gathering in Edinburgh to try to

:37:19. > :37:22.work out how to solve it. Why our hospitals so busy? Increasing

:37:23. > :37:27.numbers of elderly people need treatment and patients have high

:37:28. > :37:30.expectations. Doctors are more cautious and patients are be sent

:37:31. > :37:35.for more tests. The number of beds has been cut to treat more people in

:37:36. > :37:38.the community. The debate and discussions are going on here at the

:37:39. > :37:42.Royal College of Physicians in Edinburgh. It can be very stressful

:37:43. > :37:48.for a patient being in a busy hospital, but it can be very shy

:37:49. > :37:53.school for the staff, too. As a numbers game down, so did staff

:37:54. > :37:57.numbers. The Royal College of Nursing says that 1800 nursing posts

:37:58. > :38:02.were lost in the three years until last Christmas. This is now being

:38:03. > :38:08.reversed. There has been a number of workforce cuts. That led to us and

:38:09. > :38:14.producing the number of students in training. We then found ourselves

:38:15. > :38:18.having to put more beds into the system and we need to now find more

:38:19. > :38:26.qualified nurses. Unfortunately, this boom and bust approach that our

:38:27. > :38:29.members talk about is not good for morale or for when you are trying to

:38:30. > :38:35.find the right numbers of qualified nurses. Scottish Labour picked up on

:38:36. > :38:39.the starting point at First Minister's questions. We have seen a

:38:40. > :38:48.number of things being exposed, for example, a 62% in the -- city could

:38:49. > :38:53.increase in the use of... The Conservatives say why not try to

:38:54. > :38:58.produce the rush to the front door. It will require us to have a more

:38:59. > :39:03.responsible attitude to avoidable conditions to, like addictions or

:39:04. > :39:07.obesity and how do we combine a need to provide a service information to

:39:08. > :39:15.that without necessarily referring everyone to a hospital? The experts

:39:16. > :39:19.recommend sweeping reforms to end boarding. They're calling for an

:39:20. > :39:23.extension to seven-day working and for patients to be carefully

:39:24. > :39:29.monitored during their stay. We are very much looking at how you can

:39:30. > :39:33.take patients from the community through the hospital and back into

:39:34. > :39:37.the community with the smallest chance of having to be really

:39:38. > :39:42.admitted. If we can that, appropriately across the health

:39:43. > :39:47.boards, then we are looking at the most appropriate system for these

:39:48. > :39:50.patients. Health Secretary is now looking -- considering all of the

:39:51. > :39:56.comments to try to ensure that patients are treated quickly and end

:39:57. > :40:00.up in the right place in hospital. Joining me now in the studio is the

:40:01. > :40:06.Cabinet Secretary for Health and Wellbeing, Alex Neil. Why does it

:40:07. > :40:10.happen? It is about the flow of patients through the hospital. The

:40:11. > :40:13.flow of patients is one of the crucial challenges in our system. It

:40:14. > :40:17.has not received the same attention previously when you had such a high

:40:18. > :40:21.rate of hospitalisation for dealing with all sorts of problems. Now

:40:22. > :40:25.there is much more focus on the flow of patients. For example, sometimes

:40:26. > :40:29.you have patients going into medical wards that should be in surgical

:40:30. > :40:34.wards and vice versa. We set up this study because we suspected that it

:40:35. > :40:37.was having a damaging impact on patient health outcomes and also

:40:38. > :40:40.because we wanted to manage the flow of patients better which is why we

:40:41. > :40:46.have the recommendations that we are delighted with. Your own figures

:40:47. > :40:51.suggest that those who are in this position are more likely to die,

:40:52. > :40:54.that must be worrying for patients. The iMac absolutely. That is why we

:40:55. > :41:04.are trying to eliminate it altogether, ideally. Were developing

:41:05. > :41:07.a bed management capacity to. Let me give you an example. One of the

:41:08. > :41:12.areas of research that we have done in the last year after the problems

:41:13. > :41:16.we had last winter was looking at the patient flow. What we found out

:41:17. > :41:20.is that in many wards in hospitals the percentage of patients being

:41:21. > :41:26.discharged, ready for discharge, clinically ready for discharge, but

:41:27. > :41:28.only about 6% in some wards were being discharged before lunchtime

:41:29. > :41:35.with most of them being discharged in the evening. The reason that

:41:36. > :41:38.those delays were taking place was because the pharmacy services

:41:39. > :41:45.weren't available, the transport home was not available, what we have

:41:46. > :41:51.done as part of our is to look at these parts and puts the part in

:41:52. > :41:57.place. In the incident where it is now closer to 25%. That frees up

:41:58. > :42:03.their beds for people coming in through unplanned or planned care.

:42:04. > :42:14.Can you eradicate this practice? I believe we can. What time frame? We

:42:15. > :42:17.are looking at that. It is one of the priorities and has been a

:42:18. > :42:21.priority for the last year in improving the management of a bed

:42:22. > :42:25.capacity in hospitals. We have slightly increase the capacity in

:42:26. > :42:28.the last year. They are today 400 more beds in the National Health

:42:29. > :42:33.Service in Scotland than there were 12 months ago. Numbers were reducing

:42:34. > :42:37.previously. We had the same situation with nurse numbers. Do you

:42:38. > :42:45.accept the point that was being made in that film that there is a boom

:42:46. > :42:49.and bust element? That is why we have introduced a mandatory to that

:42:50. > :42:55.every health board has two planet using the planning tool for planning

:42:56. > :42:59.nursing staff. -- planning. Let me explain in terms of what happens and

:43:00. > :43:04.what has happened in terms of staffing. First of all, we have more

:43:05. > :43:07.qualified nurses and midwives in the national health service than we did

:43:08. > :43:12.when we came in a number of years ago. There are three reasons why the

:43:13. > :43:18.number of beds has gone down. This happened under the previous

:43:19. > :43:21.Administration 's. The rate has gone down significantly and that this

:43:22. > :43:25.Administration. Number one, you have the transfer from care in hospital

:43:26. > :43:30.to care in the community. Secondly, you have a much higher incidence now

:43:31. > :43:37.of day surgery, for example, we do 35,000 cataract operations every

:43:38. > :43:46.year. The vast bulk of those after nailing a surgery basis. -- done on

:43:47. > :43:49.hate. It does sound like you have on -- overestimated the benefits of

:43:50. > :43:53.some of these changes in terms of bed numbers. They did not actually

:43:54. > :43:59.gets the ratio right. I would not agree with that. There are examples.

:44:00. > :44:05.Planning ten years ago for the new Victoria in Fife and the new

:44:06. > :44:09.Edinburgh Royal Infirmary grossly overestimated the decline in the

:44:10. > :44:14.population and the need for beds. As a result of that, we reinstated bed

:44:15. > :44:18.capacity significantly in Edinburgh and five. Apart from that, the issue

:44:19. > :44:24.is not a strategic shortage of beds. The issue is better management of

:44:25. > :44:28.the bed capacity that we have. Is there still the potential for a

:44:29. > :44:32.crisis in our hospitals this winter? We heard about the

:44:33. > :44:40.norovirus, an increase in in the number of flu cases. Could the same

:44:41. > :44:44.thing happened this year? The norovirus... We had 25 wards closed

:44:45. > :44:54.on Christmas Eve because of it. We also had a high incidence of

:44:55. > :44:58.respiratory disease. That led to a major surge in A and one third of

:44:59. > :45:03.all of the people who went into A were also admitted to hospital. It

:45:04. > :45:08.could happen this year, but we are much better prepared. I announced an

:45:09. > :45:14.unscheduled care plan so that, for example compared to last year we

:45:15. > :45:18.have 400 more beds, we also have a capacity for additional search beds

:45:19. > :45:23.if they are required. We have recruited more nurses and we have

:45:24. > :45:27.increased the numbers of the -- A consultants. Over the years we have

:45:28. > :45:33.been in power, we have doubled the number of A consultants. One of

:45:34. > :45:38.your ambitions, shared with the Royal College of Physicians, is to

:45:39. > :45:43.gear up the NHS to be a seven-day week operation. That has

:45:44. > :45:47.implications of cost, doesn't it? . The reason we are doing it is that

:45:48. > :45:52.one of the reasons that we have the problem is that is a Fife and others

:45:53. > :45:57.refer to is that our hospitals are often planned on a five-day working

:45:58. > :46:00.week basis. The result of that is that towards the end of every week,

:46:01. > :46:04.there is a major increase in activity and again at the start of

:46:05. > :46:10.the week instead of an even flow. During the week, people are kept in

:46:11. > :46:14.hospital unnecessarily over the weekend because the pharmacy

:46:15. > :46:19.department is not staffed up to provide the pharmacy products that

:46:20. > :46:26.they need to go home. How much extra will this plan cost? In some ways it

:46:27. > :46:31.will save money. It cost about ?4600 per week to keep somebody in N

:46:32. > :46:34.hospital. If you multiply the number of times we are unnecessarily

:46:35. > :46:41.detaining people in hospital over the weekend, if we don't do that it

:46:42. > :46:46.will save a significant amount of money. But you will have to pay

:46:47. > :46:50.staff more. We are sitting down with staff to work out about better

:46:51. > :46:57.management of the resorts, rather than just putting more people in. It

:46:58. > :47:03.is about better management and safety management. If you look at

:47:04. > :47:06.the contract, doctors don't have too formed nonemergency work at 8pm and

:47:07. > :47:15.at the weekends. If you are asking them to do that, they will rightly

:47:16. > :47:19.expect some recompense. A lot of people are already on call. They are

:47:20. > :47:23.being paid to be on call at home. I think it is better and they think it

:47:24. > :47:27.is better that they are paid to come in and do work in the hospital. It

:47:28. > :47:32.is about a different way of working. We'll sits down with all of the

:47:33. > :47:38.people, we will do it by negotiation and consensus. We will not impose

:47:39. > :47:45.it. The biggest rate two out of -- out of hours is the pension reform.

:47:46. > :47:49.We have a real problem amongst GPs. Many of them are telling me that

:47:50. > :47:53.because of the daft reforms that have been introduced to the pension

:47:54. > :47:57.scheme by the UK government, many feel they are being forced to retire

:47:58. > :48:01.early and many feel that it is not worth their while doing out of hours

:48:02. > :48:05.because of the disincentive of the pension scheme. But they do as they

:48:06. > :48:10.get overtime. There was a report last week that in a four-year

:48:11. > :48:13.period, ?40 million was spent in less than four years on overtime

:48:14. > :48:20.payments for consultants in hospitals. Out of a budget of ?12

:48:21. > :48:25.billion, that is a reasonable figure. I don't know any modern

:48:26. > :48:30.industry that does not use an element of overtime to manage the

:48:31. > :48:35.flow and to manage when you get spikes in the flow of patients, ?10

:48:36. > :48:41.million in the great scheme of things is... It leads to better

:48:42. > :48:48.patient care. Some consultants are taking an extra ?150,000 because of

:48:49. > :48:53.the triple time. These contracts were negotiated in 2004. We have

:48:54. > :48:56.inherited the contracts. I would like to sit down and have already

:48:57. > :49:02.started the process of sitting down with the GPs to make sure that we

:49:03. > :49:06.have people working as much as they possibly can and at weekends and in

:49:07. > :49:12.the evenings as well and during the day, manage the workflow. On the one

:49:13. > :49:16.hand, better resorts, on the one hand, a better flow of patients

:49:17. > :49:24.through the system and on the other hand, we don't have overload and

:49:25. > :49:29.overwork. Another story in the newspapers today, saying you are

:49:30. > :49:35.looking at whether all not those who wilfully neglect patients might face

:49:36. > :49:38.jail terms, a move being introduced by the health department for those

:49:39. > :49:46.who work in the NHS in England. What do you think of that? We already

:49:47. > :49:51.have a law that says that, as far as full report patients are concerned.

:49:52. > :49:55.We will consider whether we need to extend that to cover everybody. --

:49:56. > :50:00.vulnerable patients. First that would only apply in an extreme

:50:01. > :50:04.circumstance. Second, legislation to deal with something that has already

:50:05. > :50:11.happened, as that legislation would be, is not the answer. Is is because

:50:12. > :50:18.it was brought in after mid Staffordshire. Yes but we should be

:50:19. > :50:22.under no illusion that it is a substitute for quality care. We have

:50:23. > :50:25.had a safety programme over the last five years and the professor who

:50:26. > :50:31.drew up many of these proposals for David Cameron, and who is an adviser

:50:32. > :50:35.to President Obama, he describes the Scottish health service as the

:50:36. > :50:39.safest in the world. What is your own personal view on this subject?

:50:40. > :50:47.Is there a need for legislation and would it ultimately protect the

:50:48. > :50:50.vulnerable? There is sense in extending the legislation we already

:50:51. > :50:54.have for everybody so that in these extreme cases, if it did happen in

:50:55. > :51:00.Scotland, we could do the necessary. But we need to look at

:51:01. > :51:05.the implications but I am certainly minded to introduce that

:51:06. > :51:13.legislation. So extending it right across the NHS? Yes. Thank you.

:51:14. > :51:16.Politics is a serious business but there are people employed to make

:51:17. > :51:20.sure politicians do not take themselves too seriously. Satirical

:51:21. > :51:25.cartoonists can be found poking fun at those in charge from the pages of

:51:26. > :51:31.many newspapers. The practice goes back centuries. Two exhibitions are

:51:32. > :51:39.being held in Aberdeen looking at two of the greatest cartoonists of

:51:40. > :51:43.all time. It is an art form that few

:51:44. > :51:47.politicians have escaped from. Those at the top know nothing is beyond

:51:48. > :51:51.the tip of the satirical cartoonist's pencil. But it can be

:51:52. > :51:59.damaging, especially for egos. That has been the case for a long time.

:52:00. > :52:09.David Lowes' repeated caricatures of Hitler for the Evening Standard work

:52:10. > :52:14.not popular in Berlin. Hitler found it humiliating. He complained about

:52:15. > :52:21.it to British politicians at the time. He tried to get them banned as

:52:22. > :52:27.well. This resulted in David Lowe being put on the Gestapo death list.

:52:28. > :52:31.The idea of satirical cartoons goes back centuries. Historians argue

:52:32. > :52:36.this was its heyday, with William Hogarth and Garth Cruickshank among

:52:37. > :52:40.the key figures. Nowadays, the newspapers provide a mass market for

:52:41. > :52:44.cartoonist, but in the 17th century, it would have been the shop window

:52:45. > :52:47.of the local printers that would have done the same thing. People

:52:48. > :52:52.would have congregated around them in large numbers to see the latest

:52:53. > :52:56.images and have a good early laugh. Electoral corruption provides the

:52:57. > :53:07.focus for this 18th century Hogarth piece and it is awash with detail.

:53:08. > :53:15.Must -- it is incredibly detailed. Lots of little details. Even today

:53:16. > :53:20.there is no escape, despite the decline in newspaper sales and the

:53:21. > :53:26.prevalence of 24 avenues. The cartoonists' acid in lives on,

:53:27. > :53:30.poking fun at politics being a past time we are unlikely to tire of.

:53:31. > :53:34.I am joined by award-winning cartoonist Steve Bell. What would

:53:35. > :53:40.you say the lasting influence of those early cartoons is? As well as

:53:41. > :53:46.the great pictures they produce, there is the attitude which

:53:47. > :53:52.underlies it under which goes back really to me the late 18th century,

:53:53. > :53:57.when satire got really rude. I am thinking of Gilroy in particular,

:53:58. > :54:02.who was a supremely political cartoonist. Probably the first real

:54:03. > :54:08.satirical political cartoonist. He creates figures which we now

:54:09. > :54:13.remember more through their caricatures and through the real

:54:14. > :54:19.images. People like William Pitt, George III, George IV. We remember

:54:20. > :54:23.them or us caricatures than as official images. And these images

:54:24. > :54:27.that influenced your own work, or was it more contemporary cartoons

:54:28. > :54:34.when he first started? Certainly, it is this sort of stuff is in your

:54:35. > :54:36.much green, but the bubbly I am more influenced directly by

:54:37. > :54:39.contemporaries. I was probably brought up on the Beano, so I was

:54:40. > :54:44.more influenced by that than anything else. I do strip cartoons.

:54:45. > :54:51.That is what I love to do. But the more I found out about these guys,

:54:52. > :54:55.like Cruickshank and Hogarth, the more I marvelled at what they did.

:54:56. > :54:59.Especially acres of Gilroy, what he got away with at the time. There was

:55:00. > :55:02.no freedom of the press at the time. He got away with this