:00:35. > :00:39.Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics.
:00:40. > :00:43.Ed Balls has gone socialist and fiscal conservative in one speech.
:00:44. > :00:47.He promises to balance the biggest bit of the budget. And to bring back
:00:48. > :00:53.the 50p top tax rate. Political master-stroke? Or a return to Old
:00:54. > :00:56.Labour? If you go to work by public
:00:57. > :00:59.transport, chances are the price of your ticket has just gone up. Again.
:01:00. > :01:02.We'll speak to Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin, he's our Sunday
:01:03. > :01:06.interview. And it's been another wet week
:01:07. > :01:09.across much of the UK, but what's the outlook according to Nigel
:01:10. > :01:15.Farage? And on Sunday Politics Scotland:
:01:16. > :01:19.How will 16 and 17-year olds vote in the referendum?
:01:20. > :01:20.One Labour MP predicts that they'll turn away from nationalism. We'll
:01:21. > :01:43.speak to Douglas Alexander live. And with me - as always - the
:01:44. > :01:45.political panel so fresh-faced, entertaining and downright popular
:01:46. > :01:48.they make Justin Bieber look like a boring old has-been just desperate
:01:49. > :01:51.to get your attention. Nick Watt, Helen Lewis and Janan Ganesh, and
:01:52. > :02:04.they'll be tweeting quicker than a yellow Lamborghini racing down Miami
:02:05. > :02:11.Beach. Being political nerds, they have no idea what I'm talking about.
:02:12. > :02:15.Ed Balls sprung a surprise on us all yesterday. We kinda thought Labour
:02:16. > :02:19.would head for the election with a return to the 50p top rate of tax.
:02:20. > :02:22.But we didn't think he'd do it now. He did! The polls say it's popular,
:02:23. > :02:26.Labour activists now have a spring in their step. The Tories say it's a
:02:27. > :02:29.return to the bad old days of the '70s, and bosses now think Labour is
:02:30. > :02:32.anti-business. Here's the Shadow Chancellor speaking earlier this
:02:33. > :02:34.morning. I was part of a Government which did very many things to open
:02:35. > :02:37.up markets, to make the Bank of England independent, to work closely
:02:38. > :02:39.with business, but the reality is we are in very difficult circumstances
:02:40. > :02:41.and because if I'm honest you, George Osborne's failure in the last
:02:42. > :02:45.few years, those difficult circumstances will last into the
:02:46. > :02:55.next Parliament. Business people have said to me they want to get the
:02:56. > :03:01.deficit down, of course they do. But to cut the top rate... It is foolish
:03:02. > :03:05.and feeds resentment I want to do the opposite and say look,
:03:06. > :03:09.pro-business, pro investment, pro market, but pro fairness. Let's get
:03:10. > :03:12.this deficit down in a fairway and make the reforms to make our economy
:03:13. > :03:18.this deficit down in a fairway and work for the long term. What are the
:03:19. > :03:25.political implications of Labour now in favour of a 50%, in practise 352%
:03:26. > :03:28.top rate of tax? One of the political implications I don't think
:03:29. > :03:32.exist is that they'll win new voters. I'm not sure many people out
:03:33. > :03:37.there would think, I would love to vote for Ed Miliband but I'm not
:03:38. > :03:43.sure if he wants to tax rich people enough. It will con Dale their
:03:44. > :03:50.existing vote but I don't think it is the kind of, in the 1990s we
:03:51. > :03:54.talked about triangulation, moving beyond your core vote, I don't think
:03:55. > :03:57.it is a policy like that. If there has been a policy like that this
:03:58. > :04:01.year, this month, it has been the Tories' move on minimum wage. I
:04:02. > :04:05.thought Labour would come back with their own version, a centre-right
:04:06. > :04:10.policy, and instead they have done this. I think we talk about the 35%
:04:11. > :04:17.strategy that Labour supposed will have, I think it is a policy in that
:04:18. > :04:23.direction rather than the thing Tony Blair or Gordon Brown would have
:04:24. > :04:29.done. Where he was not clear is on how much it would raise. We know the
:04:30. > :04:35.sum in the grand scheme of things isn't much, the bedroom tax was
:04:36. > :04:42.about sending a message. What we are going to see is George Osborne and
:04:43. > :04:48.Ed Balls lock as they try to push the other one into saying things
:04:49. > :04:56.that are unpopular. The Tories, ?150,000 a year, that's exactly
:04:57. > :05:00.three main parties have roughly the three main parties have roughly the
:05:01. > :05:04.same plan, to run a current budget surplus by the end of the next
:05:05. > :05:10.Parliament. George Osborne said ?12 billion of welfare cuts, hasn't said
:05:11. > :05:15.how he is going to do it. Ed Balls is giving an idea that he is going
:05:16. > :05:19.to restore this 50 persons rate. The contribution of that will be
:05:20. > :05:24.deminimus. It is not much, but what does it say about your values.
:05:25. > :05:28.Because it is that package, it is cleverer than people think. Where
:05:29. > :05:31.the challenge is is the question that Peter Mandelson posed at the
:05:32. > :05:36.last election, which is can the Labour Party win a general election
:05:37. > :05:39.if it doesn't have business on its side? That's the big challenge and
:05:40. > :05:44.that's the question looking difficult for them this morning.
:05:45. > :05:50.Does it matter if Labour has business on its side. I thought the
:05:51. > :05:54.most fascinating thing about this announcement is it came from the guy
:05:55. > :05:58.mindful of business support, Ed Balls. When in opposition and when a
:05:59. > :06:04.Minister and as a shadow as a result, he's been far more conscious
:06:05. > :06:09.than Ed Miliband about the need not to alienate the CB Bill. In the
:06:10. > :06:13.run-up of an election. This is a measure of Ed Miliband's strength in
:06:14. > :06:19.the Labour Party, that his view of things can prevail so easily over a
:06:20. > :06:25.guy who for the last 15 years has taken a different view. Eight out of
:06:26. > :06:30.ten businesses according to the CBI don't want us to leave business.
:06:31. > :06:35.Business is in a bit of a cleft stick. Ed Miliband would like to see
:06:36. > :06:38.businesses squealing, and Ed Balls is clearly not so comfortable on
:06:39. > :06:42.that one. There's a difference on that. Mind you, they were squealing
:06:43. > :06:47.this morning from Davos. They probably had hangovers as well. The
:06:48. > :06:52.other thing they would say is this is not like Ed Balls thinks that 50p
:06:53. > :06:56.is the optimal rate forever, it what go eventually. Isn't that what
:06:57. > :07:01.politicians said when income tax was introduced? Yeah, in '97 Labour
:07:02. > :07:06.regarded 40 persons as the rate where it would stay.
:07:07. > :07:11.It's been a bad week for the Lib Dems. Again. Actually, it's been one
:07:12. > :07:14.of the worst weeks yet for Nick Clegg and his party in recent
:07:15. > :07:17.memory, as they've gone from talking confidently about their role in
:07:18. > :07:19.Government to facing a storm of criticism over claims of
:07:20. > :07:22.inappropriate sexual behaviour by a Lib Dem peer, Chris Rennard, and a
:07:23. > :07:26.Lib Dem MP, Mike Hancock. Here's Giles with the story of the week. A
:07:27. > :07:33.challenge to Nick Clegg's authority as he face as growing row over the
:07:34. > :07:37.Liberal Democrat... I want everyone to be treated with respect by the
:07:38. > :07:43.Liberal Democrats. We are expecting him to show moral leadership on our
:07:44. > :07:49.behalf. A good man has been publicly destroyed by the media with the
:07:50. > :07:53.apparent support of Nick Clegg. I would like Nick Clegg to show
:07:54. > :08:00.leadership and say, this has got to stop. When Nick Clegg woke up on
:08:01. > :08:06.Monday morning he knew he was in trouble, staring down the barrel of
:08:07. > :08:11.a stand justify with Lord Rennard over allegations that the peer had
:08:12. > :08:15.inappropriately touched a number of women. Chris Rennard thought he was
:08:16. > :08:20.cleared. Nick Clegg wanted more. I said if he doesn't apologise, he
:08:21. > :08:25.should withdraw from the House of Lords. If he does that today, what
:08:26. > :08:32.do you do then? I hope he doesn't. I think no apology, no whip. 2014 was
:08:33. > :08:37.starting badly for the Liberal Democrats. Chris Rennard refused to
:08:38. > :08:42.apologise, saying you can't say sorry for something you haven't
:08:43. > :08:45.done. The and he was leaning towards legal action. Butch us friends
:08:46. > :08:50.better defending Pym and publicly. This is a good, decent man, who has
:08:51. > :08:54.been punished by the party, with the leadership of the party that seems
:08:55. > :09:01.to be showing scant regard for due process. But his accusers felt very
:09:02. > :09:05.differently. It is untenable for the Lib Dems to have a credible voice on
:09:06. > :09:10.qualities and women's issues in the future if Lord Rennard was allowed
:09:11. > :09:16.to be back on the Lib Dem benches in the House of Lords. Therein lay the
:09:17. > :09:20.problem that exposed the weaknesses of the Lib Dem leaders. The party's
:09:21. > :09:27.internal structures have all the simplicity of a circuit diagram for
:09:28. > :09:31.a supercomputer, exposing the complexity of who runs the Liberal
:09:32. > :09:36.Democrats? The simple question that arose of that was can the leader of
:09:37. > :09:41.the Lib Dems remove a Lib Dem peer? The simple answer is no. The Lib Dem
:09:42. > :09:48.whips in the Lords could do it but if enough Lib Dem peers disagreed,
:09:49. > :09:51.they could overrule it. Some long-stand ng friends of roar
:09:52. > :09:55.Rennard think he is either the innocent victim of a media
:09:56. > :10:00.witch-hunt or at the least due process has been ridden over rough
:10:01. > :10:04.shot by the leadership. Nobody ever did spot Lord Rennard as he didn't
:10:05. > :10:09.turn up to the Lords, will citing ill health. But issued a statement
:10:10. > :10:13.that ruled out an apology. He refused to do so and refused to
:10:14. > :10:16.comply with the outcome of that report, so there was no alternative
:10:17. > :10:21.but for the party to suspend his membership today. On Wednesday Nick
:10:22. > :10:25.Clegg met Lib Dem peers, not for a crunch decision, but to discuss the
:10:26. > :10:28.extraordinary prospect of legal action against the party by the man
:10:29. > :10:32.long credited with building its success. The situation was making
:10:33. > :10:36.the party look like a joke. One Tory MP said to one of my colleagues this
:10:37. > :10:40.morning, the funny thing about the Liberal Democrats, you managed to
:10:41. > :10:44.create a whole sex scandal without any sex. And we can laugh at
:10:45. > :10:49.ourselves but actually it is rather serious. And it got more serious,
:10:50. > :10:53.when an MP who had resigned the Lib Dem whip last year was expanded from
:10:54. > :10:57.the party over a report into allegations of serious and unwelcome
:10:58. > :11:02.sexual behaviour towards a constituent. All of this leaves the
:11:03. > :11:07.Lib Dems desperately wishing these sagas had been dealt with long ago
:11:08. > :11:13.and would now go away. Nick Clegg ended the week still party leader.
:11:14. > :11:20.Lord Rennard, once one of their most powerful players, ended the week,
:11:21. > :11:23.for now, no longer even in it. Giles on the Lib Dems' disastrous
:11:24. > :11:29.week. Now, as you doubtless already know, on Tuesday Lib Dem MPs will
:11:30. > :11:34.vote to choose a new deputy leader. You didn't know that? You do now.
:11:35. > :11:37.The job of Nick Clegg's number two is to speak with a genuine Lib Dem
:11:38. > :11:41.voice, untainted by the demands of coalition Government. At this point
:11:42. > :11:44.in the show we had expected to speak to all three candidates for the
:11:45. > :11:52.post, held in recent years by party veterans like Vince Cable and Simon
:11:53. > :11:55.Hughes. We thought it being quite a significant week for the party, they
:11:56. > :12:01.might have something to say. And here they are. Well that's their
:12:02. > :12:04.pictures. For various reasons, all three are now unavailable. Malcolm
:12:05. > :12:08.Bruce, he's reckoned to be the outsider. His office said he had a
:12:09. > :12:11."family commitment". Gordon Birtwistle, the Burnley MP, was
:12:12. > :12:15.booked to appear but then told us, "I was at an event last night with
:12:16. > :12:21.Lorely Burt" - she's one of the candidates - "and she told me it was
:12:22. > :12:24.off". And Lorely Burt herself, seen by many as the red hot favourite,
:12:25. > :12:28.told us: "Because of the Rennard thing we don't want to put ourselves
:12:29. > :12:40.in a position where we have to answer difficult questions." How
:12:41. > :12:44.refreshingly honest. Helen, how bad politically is all this for the Lib
:12:45. > :12:47.Dems? What I think is the tragic irony of the Lib Dems is they've
:12:48. > :12:52.been revealed as being too democratic. In the same way that
:12:53. > :12:56.their party conference embarrassed Nick Clegg by voting sings that he
:12:57. > :13:03.signed up to, and now everything has to be run past various
:13:04. > :13:15.sub-committees first. Is it democratic or chaotic? It is
:13:16. > :13:21.Byzantine. Mike Hancock was voluntarily suspended, and this week
:13:22. > :13:25.he was properly suspended. It was new information into the public
:13:26. > :13:32.domain that forced that. I'm already hearing Labour and Conservative
:13:33. > :13:36.Party musing that if it is a long Parliament, we will form a minority
:13:37. > :13:39.Government. It is a disaster for them. Voters like parties that
:13:40. > :13:44.reflect and are interested this their concerns. Parties that are
:13:45. > :13:48.self obsessed turn them off. The third party, if they carry on like
:13:49. > :13:52.this, they'll be the fifth party in the European elections, so they have
:13:53. > :13:57.got to draw a line under this. They do that, if they do, through
:13:58. > :14:02.mediation. As I understand it, Chris Rennard,s who has go devoted his
:14:03. > :14:05.entire life to the Liberal Democrats, and previously the
:14:06. > :14:09.Liberal Party, is keen to draw a line under this. He is up for
:14:10. > :14:13.mediation but he needs to know that the women that he has clearly
:14:14. > :14:17.invaded their personal space, that there wouldn't be a possible legal a
:14:18. > :14:21.action from them. The it is very difficult to see how you could
:14:22. > :14:25.resolve that. Except he is threatening through his friends,
:14:26. > :14:30.these famous friends, to spill all the beans about all the party's sex
:14:31. > :14:33.secrets. Isn't the danger for the Lib Dems, this haunts them through
:14:34. > :14:37.to the European elections, where they'll get thumped in the European
:14:38. > :14:41.elections? They'll get destroyed in the European elections, which keeps
:14:42. > :14:46.it salient as a story over the summer. And it has implications for
:14:47. > :14:50.Nick Clegg's leadership. He's done a good job until now, perhaps better
:14:51. > :14:53.than David Cameron, of exercising authority over his party. He had a
:14:54. > :14:57.good conference in September. Absolutely, and now the Lib Dems
:14:58. > :15:03.have looked like a party without a leader or a leadership structure.
:15:04. > :15:07.Part of that is down to the chaotic or Byzantine organisational
:15:08. > :15:10.structure of the party. Part of it is Nick Clegg's failure to assert
:15:11. > :15:18.himself and impose himself over events. Is it Byzantine or
:15:19. > :15:29.Byzantine. It is labyrinthine. You don't get these words on the Today
:15:30. > :15:33.programme. The cost of living has been back on the agenda this week as
:15:34. > :15:36.Labour and the Tories argue over whether the value of money in your
:15:37. > :15:40.pocket is going up or down. Well there's one cost which has been
:15:41. > :15:43.racing ahead of inflation and that's the amount you have to pay to travel
:15:44. > :15:46.by train, by bus and by air. Rail commuters have been hard hit over
:15:47. > :15:50.the last four years, with the cost of the average season ticket going
:15:51. > :15:56.up by 18% since January 2010, while wages have gone up by just 3.6% over
:15:57. > :16:02.the same period. It means some rail users are paying high prices with
:16:03. > :16:06.commuters from Kent shelling out more than ?5,000 per year from the
:16:07. > :16:11.beginning of this month just to get to work in London. It doesn't
:16:12. > :16:17.compare well with our European counterparts. In the UK the average
:16:18. > :16:25.rail user spends 14% of their average income on trains. It is just
:16:26. > :16:30.1.5% in Italy. Regulated fares like season tickets went up 3.1% at the
:16:31. > :16:35.beginning of this month, and with ministers keen to make passengers
:16:36. > :16:38.fought more of the bills, there are more fare rises coming down the
:16:39. > :16:52.track. And Patrick McLoughlin joins me now for the Sunday Interview.
:16:53. > :16:56.Welcome. You claim to be in the party of hard-working people, so why
:16:57. > :17:00.is it that since you came to power rail commuters have seen the cost of
:17:01. > :17:09.their average season ticket going up in money terms by over 18% while
:17:10. > :17:15.their pay has gone up in money terms by less than four? I would point out
:17:16. > :17:21.that this is the first year in ten years that we have not had an above
:17:22. > :17:25.inflation increase on fares. The Government accepts we have got to do
:17:26. > :17:34.as much as we can to help the passengers. A big inflation increase
:17:35. > :17:41.since 2010. This is the first year in ten years that it has not been
:17:42. > :17:45.above RPI, but we are also investing huge amounts of money into the
:17:46. > :17:51.railways, building new trains for the East Coast Main Line and the
:17:52. > :17:57.great Western. We are spending ?500 million at Birmingham station, this
:17:58. > :18:01.is all increasing capacity, so we are seeing investments. Over the
:18:02. > :18:11.next five years Network Rail will invest over ?38 billion in the
:18:12. > :18:16.network structure. We also have an expensive railway and it is ordinary
:18:17. > :18:21.people paying for it. A season ticket from Woking in Surrey,
:18:22. > :18:28.commuter belt land in London, let's look at the figures. This is a
:18:29. > :18:37.distance of over 25 miles, it cost over ?3000 per year. We have picked
:18:38. > :18:45.similar distances to international cities.
:18:46. > :18:54.The British commuter is being ripped off. The British commuter is seeing
:18:55. > :18:59.record levels of investment in our railways. The investment has to be
:19:00. > :19:02.paid for. We are investing huge amounts of money and I don't know
:19:03. > :19:20.whether the figures you have got here... I'm sure they are likewise,
:19:21. > :19:29.as you have managed to do... White -- ten times more than the Italian
:19:30. > :19:33.equivalent. We have seen transformational changes in our
:19:34. > :19:38.railway services and we need to carry on investing. We were paying
:19:39. > :19:43.these prices even before you started investing. We have always paid a lot
:19:44. > :19:52.more to commute in this country than our European equivalents. I'm not
:19:53. > :19:58.quite sure I want to take on Italy is a great example. You would if you
:19:59. > :20:04.were a commuter. You is a great example. You would if you
:20:05. > :20:10.the other rates of taxation has to be paid as well. Isn't it the case
:20:11. > :20:14.they are making profits out of these figures and using them to subsidise
:20:15. > :20:22.cheaper fares back in their homeland? The overall profit margin
:20:23. > :20:26.train companies make is 3%, a reasonable amount, and we have seen
:20:27. > :20:31.a revolution as far as the railway industry is concerned.
:20:32. > :20:36.a revolution as far as the railway 20 years we have seen passenger
:20:37. > :20:40.journeys going from 750 million to 1.5 billion. That is a massive
:20:41. > :20:45.revolution in rail. Let me look 1.5 billion. That is a massive
:20:46. > :20:45.spokesperson for the German government, the Ministry of
:20:46. > :21:03.transport. They are charging huge fares in
:21:04. > :21:08.Britain to take that money back to subsidise fares in Germany. What do
:21:09. > :21:12.you say to that? We are seeing British companies winning contracts
:21:13. > :21:18.in Germany. The National Express are winning contracts to the railways.
:21:19. > :21:23.What about the ordinary commuter? They are paying through the nose so
:21:24. > :21:28.German commuters can travel more cheaply. We are still subsidising
:21:29. > :21:32.the railways in this country, but overall we want to reduce the
:21:33. > :21:40.subsidy we are giving. We are still seeing growth in our railways and I
:21:41. > :21:48.want to see more people using them. Why do you increase rail fares at
:21:49. > :21:53.the higher RPI measure than the lower CPI measurement? That is what
:21:54. > :21:57.has always been done, and we have stopped. This is the first time in
:21:58. > :22:07.ten years that we have not raised the rail figures above RPI. You
:22:08. > :22:13.still link fares to RPI. You use the lower CPI figure when it suits you,
:22:14. > :22:17.to keep pension payments down for example, but the higher one when it
:22:18. > :22:22.comes to increasing rail fares. We are still putting a huge subsidy
:22:23. > :22:27.into the rail industry, there is still a huge amount of money going
:22:28. > :22:32.from the taxpayer to support the rail industry. I am not asking you
:22:33. > :22:40.about that, I am asking you why you link the figures to the higher RPI
:22:41. > :22:47.vesture Mark if we are going to pay for the levels of investment, so all
:22:48. > :22:51.the new trains being built at Newton Aycliffe for the East Coast Main
:22:52. > :22:56.Line and the great Western, ?3.5 billion of investment, new rolling
:22:57. > :22:59.stock coming online, then yes, we have to pay for it, and it is a
:23:00. > :23:14.question of the taxpayer paying for it all the -- or the passenger.
:23:15. > :23:17.You have capped parking fines until the next election, rail commuters we
:23:18. > :23:27.have seen the cost of their ticket has gone up by nearly 20%, you are
:23:28. > :23:34.the party of the drivers, not the passengers, aren't you?
:23:35. > :23:48.We are trying to help everybody who has been struggling. I think we are
:23:49. > :23:52.setting out long-term plans for our railways, investing heavily in them
:23:53. > :23:57.and it is getting that balance right. But you have done more for
:23:58. > :24:04.the driver than you have for the user of public transport. I don't
:24:05. > :24:10.accept that. They are paying the same petrol prices as 2011. This is
:24:11. > :24:18.the first time in ten years that there has not been an RPI plus
:24:19. > :24:25.rise. We are investing record amounts. Bus fares are also rising,
:24:26. > :24:31.4.2% in real terms in 2010, at a time when real take-home pay has
:24:32. > :24:36.been falling. This hits commuters particularly workers who use buses
:24:37. > :24:41.on low incomes, another cost of living squeeze. I was with
:24:42. > :24:55.Stagecoach in Manchester on Friday, and I saw a bus company investing in
:24:56. > :25:01.new buses. Last week First ordered new buses. Part of your hard-working
:25:02. > :25:07.families you are always on about, they are the ones going to work
:25:08. > :25:11.early in the morning, and yet you are making them pay more for their
:25:12. > :25:18.buses in real terms than they did before. They would be happier if
:25:19. > :25:23.they could travel more cheaply. It is about getting investment in
:25:24. > :25:31.services, it has to be paid for. Why not run the old buses for five more
:25:32. > :25:35.years? Because then there is more pollution in the atmosphere, modern
:25:36. > :25:40.buses have lower emissions, and we are still giving huge support
:25:41. > :25:43.overall to the bus industry and that is very important because I fully
:25:44. > :25:47.accept that the number of people, yes, use the train but a lot of
:25:48. > :25:56.people use buses as well. High-speed yes, use the train but a lot of
:25:57. > :26:01.two, it has been delayed because 877 pages of key evidence from your
:26:02. > :26:07.department were left on a computer memory stick, part of the submission
:26:08. > :26:12.to environmental consultation. Your department's economic case is now
:26:13. > :26:18.widely regarded as a joke, now you do this. Is your department fit for
:26:19. > :26:24.purpose? Yes, and as far as what happened with the memory stick, it
:26:25. > :26:30.is an acceptable and shouldn't have happened, and therefore we have
:26:31. > :26:40.extended the time. There has been an extension in the time for people to
:26:41. > :26:44.make representation, the bill for this goes through Parliament in a
:26:45. > :26:58.different way to a normal bill. It is vital HS2 provides what we want.
:26:59. > :27:03.What I am very pleased about is when the paving bill was passed by
:27:04. > :27:08.Parliament just a few months ago, there was overwhelming support, and
:27:09. > :27:12.I kept reading there was going to be 70 people voting against it, in the
:27:13. > :27:17.end 30 people voted against it and there was a good majority in the
:27:18. > :27:23.House of Commons. So can you give a guarantee that this legislation will
:27:24. > :27:29.get onto the statute books? I will do all I can. I cannot tell you the
:27:30. > :27:37.exact Parliamentary time scale. The bill will have started its progress
:27:38. > :27:44.through the House of Commons by 2015, and it may well have
:27:45. > :27:48.concluded. The new chairman of HS2 said he can bring the cost of the
:27:49. > :27:58.line substantially under the budget, do you agree with that? The figure
:27:59. > :28:05.is ?42 billion with a large contingency, and David Higgins, as
:28:06. > :28:08.chairman of HS2, is looking at the whole cast and seeing if there are
:28:09. > :28:14.ways in which it can be built faster. At the moment across London
:28:15. > :28:19.we are building Crossrail, ?14.5 billion investment. There was a
:28:20. > :28:27.report last week saying what an excellent job has been done.
:28:28. > :28:36.Crossrail started under Labour. Actually it was Cecil Parkinson in
:28:37. > :28:41.the 1990 party conference. You may get HS2 cheaper if you didn't pay
:28:42. > :28:47.people so much, why is the nonexecutive chairman of HS2 on
:28:48. > :28:55.?600,000? And the new chief executive on ?750,000. These are
:28:56. > :28:59.very big projects and we need to attract the best people become so we
:29:00. > :29:04.are going for the best engineers in the world to engineer this project.
:29:05. > :29:08.It is a large salary, there is no question about it, but I'm rather
:29:09. > :29:13.pleased that engineers rather than bankers can be seen to get big
:29:14. > :29:18.rewards for delivering what will be very important pieces of national
:29:19. > :29:24.infrastructure. I didn't have time to ask you about your passenger duty
:29:25. > :29:28.so perhaps another time. We are about to speak to Nigel Mills and
:29:29. > :29:32.all of these MPs on your side who are rebelling against the
:29:33. > :29:36.Government, how would you handle them? We have got to listen to what
:29:37. > :29:43.our colleagues are talking about and try to respond it. Would you take
:29:44. > :29:52.them for a long walk off a short pier? I'm sure I would have many
:29:53. > :30:01.conversations with them. An immigration bill to tack the
:30:02. > :30:07.immigration into the UK. When limits on migration from Bulgaria and
:30:08. > :30:11.Romania were lifted this year there were warnings of a large influx of
:30:12. > :30:16.migrant workerses from the two new European countries. So far it's been
:30:17. > :30:21.more of a dribble than a flood. Who can forget Labour MP Keith Vaz
:30:22. > :30:26.greeting a handful of arrivals at Luton Airport. But it is early days
:30:27. > :30:29.and it is one of the reasons the Government's introduced a new
:30:30. > :30:35.Immigration Bill. The Prime Minister is facing rebellion from
:30:36. > :30:40.backbenchers who want tougher action on immigration from abroad. Nigel
:30:41. > :30:52.Mills would reimpose restrictions on how many Romanians and Bulgarians
:30:53. > :30:55.can come here. Joining me is Nigel Mills, Conservative MP behind the
:30:56. > :31:03.amendment and Labour MP Diane Abbott. Welcome. Nigel Mills, there
:31:04. > :31:08.hasn't been an influx of Romanians and Bulgarians. Why do you want to
:31:09. > :31:13.restore these, kick these transitional controls way forward to
:31:14. > :31:16.2019? I don't think any of us were expecting a rush on January 1st,
:31:17. > :31:21.Andrew. I think we were talking about a range of 250,000 to 350,000
:31:22. > :31:27.people over five years. That's obviously a large amount of people,
:31:28. > :31:32.especially when you think net migration to the UK was well in
:31:33. > :31:36.excess of the Government's target of tens of thousands last year. The
:31:37. > :31:42.real concern is that it would be ever increasing our population,
:31:43. > :31:46.attracting lots of low-skilled, low-wage people, which keeps our
:31:47. > :31:52.people out of work and wages down. Did you accept that if you were to
:31:53. > :31:56.accept this, it would be in breach of the Treaty of Rome, the founding
:31:57. > :32:00.principle of the European Union? We were trying to keep the restrictions
:32:01. > :32:04.that Bulgaria and Romania accepted for their first seven years of EU
:32:05. > :32:09.membership, on the basis that when we signed the treaty we weren't
:32:10. > :32:13.aware that we would have a huge and catastrophic recession we are still
:32:14. > :32:18.recovering from. But you would be in breach of the law, correct? The UK
:32:19. > :32:23.Parliament has a right to say we signed this deal before the terrible
:32:24. > :32:27.recession, and we need a bit longer in our national interest. It is
:32:28. > :32:35.worth noting that Bulgaria and Romania haven't met all their
:32:36. > :32:38.accession requirements. The Bulgarian requirement passed a
:32:39. > :32:43.law... So if they break the law it is alright for us to break the law?
:32:44. > :32:50.Is we should be focusing on trying to get 2. 4 million of our own in
:32:51. > :32:55.work, and 1 million people not in work... Let me bring in Diane
:32:56. > :33:00.Abbott. Will you vote for this amendment and why? It is in breach
:33:01. > :33:04.of the treaty. While I deplore MPs that try to cause trouble, these MPs
:33:05. > :33:08.have been particularly mindless, because what they want to do
:33:09. > :33:14.wouldn't be legal. However, it is a Tory internal brief, if I might say
:33:15. > :33:21.so. Maybe you can cause trouble by voting for it. No, that would be
:33:22. > :33:25.going too far. Underlying it is a real antagonism for David Cameron.
:33:26. > :33:29.They have had to hold off on this bill until January. It was supposed
:33:30. > :33:35.to be debating before Christmas. As we speak they've not cut a deal, so
:33:36. > :33:41.it could be pretty grus om. Nigel Mills, what do you say to that I
:33:42. > :33:45.think there is a recognition that there is a problem with the amount
:33:46. > :33:50.of migration from EU countries that we need to tackle. We could try to
:33:51. > :33:53.achieve an annual cap perhaps, longer limits on when countries get
:33:54. > :34:05.free movement. I think the debate is moving in the
:34:06. > :34:12.People are worried now about the level of immigration over the years,
:34:13. > :34:18.they think it has got too high. That is the consensus in the country.
:34:19. > :34:24.Someone in your constituency says that struggling to cope with numbers
:34:25. > :34:30.of people wanting to is their services. The truth is that in the
:34:31. > :34:34.past years, EU migrants put in more to the economy in taxation and they
:34:35. > :34:42.take out in benefits. When it comes to free movement in the EU, that
:34:43. > :34:47.horse has bolted. We signed a treaty. There is nothing that people
:34:48. > :34:53.can do unless they want to rip their party apart. Will you go so far as
:34:54. > :35:01.to your party apart? Will you take this all the way? Would you rather
:35:02. > :35:04.see this bill go down? I think this is an important bill. There are a
:35:05. > :35:10.lots of measures in there that we want on the statute book. The last
:35:11. > :35:15.thing I want to see is the building down. But we do need to set out
:35:16. > :35:25.clearly that we have concerns about EU migration and something needs to
:35:26. > :35:31.be done. Would you rather have without your amendment on the bill
:35:32. > :35:35.at all? I hope we can have it with the amendments. I think it will
:35:36. > :35:40.depend on what the Labour Party decided to do. They need to talk
:35:41. > :35:45.tough on immigration and we will see whether they will take any action.
:35:46. > :35:48.Your party has been talking tough on immigration, but I would be
:35:49. > :35:56.surprised if I'm Ed Miliband Labour Party would vote for anything in
:35:57. > :36:01.concert of the Treaty of Rome. He is wishing for the impossible. I was a
:36:02. > :36:06.Tory whip I would be running my hands. He has not ruled out crashing
:36:07. > :36:13.the bill, that is incredible. Where will this end? It will end with a
:36:14. > :36:20.vote on Thursday. There are different amendments now, I think
:36:21. > :36:23.what we should be doing is taking some limited and proportionate
:36:24. > :36:31.action which is what I have been proposing. I want this bill on the
:36:32. > :36:38.statute book. We need to sort out the rights to a... I don't want to
:36:39. > :36:39.crash the bill. There are more measures that are needed. Thank you
:36:40. > :36:47.for that. Good morning and welcome to Sunday
:36:48. > :36:50.Politics Scotland. Coming up on the programme: Children of the digital
:36:51. > :36:53.age. What is influencing our young voters
:36:54. > :36:56.in the run up to the referendum? Douglas Alexander joins us live to
:36:57. > :37:01.argue why he thinks first time voters will reject nationalism.
:37:02. > :37:03.And we'll be speaking live to the newly-elected MSP for Cowdenbeath
:37:04. > :37:08.and asking what are his priorities for the area?
:37:09. > :37:13.The Labour MP and Shadow foreign secretary will make a speech to a
:37:14. > :37:16.Better Together rally later today claiming the premise that 16 and
:37:17. > :37:19.17-year-olds are more likely to vote Yes in the referendum is mistaken.
:37:20. > :37:22.Douglas Alexander will tell his audience that today's generation of
:37:23. > :37:24.young people are a "network" generation, connected to the world
:37:25. > :37:29.through technology, and not a nationalist one. In a moment we'll
:37:30. > :37:32.be speaking to Douglas Alexander, but first let's hear some views on
:37:33. > :37:39.the subject, including two first-time voters.
:37:40. > :37:43.In the beginning, the idea of allowing younger people to vote was
:37:44. > :37:47.controversial. Some questioned whether they were responsible enough
:37:48. > :37:52.to make decisions about Scotland's future. What are they going to do
:37:53. > :37:56.with the power? We only have one serious attempt to get at the
:37:57. > :38:03.preferences with respect to the referendum of those who will be 16
:38:04. > :38:10.or 17 come September. Actually, the survey suggested that this age group
:38:11. > :38:14.at least was something between six and ten points less likely been in
:38:15. > :38:21.favour of independence than the adult population. Young people are
:38:22. > :38:26.wanting to hear more about how independents will actually directly
:38:27. > :38:30.affect them. Will it increase their job opportunities? Will it increase
:38:31. > :38:37.their hope? There is a lot of hopelessness and alienation. They
:38:38. > :38:43.want to see whether there will be change in Scotland to independents.
:38:44. > :38:49.We asked to vote is to be what issues will influence their views?
:38:50. > :38:53.Money is the big matter. Without money, we cannot fund public
:38:54. > :39:03.services like the NHS, free tuition access for. We don't have enough
:39:04. > :39:07.money to fund the Scottish students, they will have to pay for
:39:08. > :39:12.their own tuition fees. For me it is about equality and I feel the only
:39:13. > :39:16.way we can get an equal and fair Scotland is through independence. I
:39:17. > :39:20.feel the people of Scotland should run Scotland and if that means we
:39:21. > :39:25.are less wealthy, though I don't believe that would be the case, I
:39:26. > :39:30.think that is a risk to take. They seem relaxed about the idea of
:39:31. > :39:35.national identity. I don't really think that we need to define
:39:36. > :39:43.ourselves as being members of just one country. Right now, every
:39:44. > :39:48.country is multicultural. You can find people from all over the world
:39:49. > :39:53.in any nation. Even if you say, I am Scottish, if you go far back and
:39:54. > :40:00.asked, we all just migrants For me, it is about being national pride. I
:40:01. > :40:04.understand people that say it is not all about identity any don't have to
:40:05. > :40:11.label yourself, you can just be sure you are. In a make up a small part
:40:12. > :40:15.of the electorate, but it will be the youngest voters who lived
:40:16. > :40:19.longest with the results. Joining me now is the man who'll be
:40:20. > :40:22.making that speech this afternoon - Labour MP Douglas Alexander. You are
:40:23. > :40:29.saying that the decision to give them the vote is backfiring on the
:40:30. > :40:34.SNP. What a basing that on? The largest and most comp rancid survey
:40:35. > :40:43.taken under Edinburgh University, many opinion polls indicate a couple
:40:44. > :40:47.of things. First of all, young Scots are comfortable in their Scottish
:40:48. > :40:53.identity. They are secure and proud of our sense of Scottish list. Those
:40:54. > :41:00.of us who grew up in the 1980s felt that our identity was under threat.
:41:01. > :41:08.I have learned from talking to young Scots how comfortable and confident
:41:09. > :41:17.they are in their identity. This is a generation that has -- that is
:41:18. > :41:22.comfortable with a layered identity. Independence does not change that.
:41:23. > :41:27.It does undermine the argument that the youngest group of voters are
:41:28. > :41:31.uniquely and distinctively Scottish. We are all passionately and proudly
:41:32. > :41:36.Scottish, but they like many of us are pragmatic in terms of seeing in
:41:37. > :41:40.the modern world where we are interconnected in a way unimaginable
:41:41. > :41:44.a generation ago, we do not have to choose between being Scottish or
:41:45. > :41:50.Scottish and British or even European. It was clear from when
:41:51. > :41:58.this was announced that the votes of the 16 and 17-year-olds was not
:41:59. > :42:04.going to be decisive. I supported for the AV referendum 16-year-olds
:42:05. > :42:09.having the vote. I think it is right that they have their say in the
:42:10. > :42:16.referendum. Has the premise of the article being overtaken by today's
:42:17. > :42:24.poll in Scotland On Sunday? It has the largest swing we have seen
:42:25. > :42:35.towards yes. This poll suggests a jump of 26% from 18 to 44%. If you
:42:36. > :42:47.read what Professor Curtis said, he said this was a very small sample of
:42:48. > :42:53.16 to 25-year-old. I am not complacent. That suggests to me that
:42:54. > :42:56.all of us have more work to do in the remaining days. There is no
:42:57. > :43:02.ground for complacency. The stakes are very high. You cannot change
:43:03. > :43:07.your mind after a few years. A decision to break up the country
:43:08. > :43:11.will be for ever. You see in your article that young people fear an
:43:12. > :43:17.independent Scotland would be a narrowing, not broadening
:43:18. > :43:22.experience. We are in a distinctive position. We are part of a
:43:23. > :43:26.multicultural multinational, multiethnic country. I am asking you
:43:27. > :43:32.to back-up the claim that there would be a narrowing experience.
:43:33. > :43:36.Which country has that been a for? Overwhelmingly, young people made
:43:37. > :43:41.clear that they wanted to be part of something bigger, as well as feeling
:43:42. > :43:46.pride of what they are part of here in Scotland. For me, there is no
:43:47. > :43:51.choice between being comfortable in that. You can support different
:43:52. > :43:56.football teams, that is the young generation, they feel they can have
:43:57. > :44:00.it all. You quote a survey, that survey and others shows a desire
:44:01. > :44:06.amongst the public for more powers if there is a no vote. Which powers
:44:07. > :44:10.would you like to see devolved? We have a commission looking at this.
:44:11. > :44:15.With the proposals coming through, there will be a shift of powers to
:44:16. > :44:20.Edinburgh. I have said for many months but I hope the commission
:44:21. > :44:26.will come up with proposals for the Scottish Labour Party at the Perth
:44:27. > :44:33.conference for enhanced devolution. Devo Max is more discussed than
:44:34. > :44:37.defined by many people, we need to look at the practical changes that
:44:38. > :44:41.will make a practical difference to people's lives. Potentially welfare,
:44:42. > :44:46.it is only a matter of weeks until the recommendations are brought
:44:47. > :44:52.forward. Whether it is taxation or welfare or some of the proposals
:44:53. > :44:56.that Gordon Brown spoke about in Cowdenbeath I think all of those
:44:57. > :45:02.should be on the table. The SNP are highlighting comments made by Jim
:45:03. > :45:07.Gallagher, they say that he said the idea of Scotland winning some vision
:45:08. > :45:11.of Devo Max is fantastical. His argument at the time being that
:45:12. > :45:16.Westminster would not go for it. You can promise, Labour in Scotland can
:45:17. > :45:20.promise what they want, but can make guaranteed that Westminster will
:45:21. > :45:32.back it? Will be less than nine months left for this Government on
:45:33. > :45:35.December 18 -- September 18. In terms of delivering the package, I
:45:36. > :45:40.do believe that there are grounds for optimism in terms of what we can
:45:41. > :45:47.see and deliver. But there are no guarantees, are there? What we're
:45:48. > :45:50.talking about is the central paradox of Scottish politics is that
:45:51. > :45:55.Scotland wants change. I am desperate to see change from the
:45:56. > :45:59.conservative coalition Government. But the majority of Scots don't want
:46:00. > :46:02.the destructive change that the Nationalists are offering. Our
:46:03. > :46:05.responsibility is to offer the desirable change that Scottish
:46:06. > :46:12.voters want. I believe that involves enhanced devolution and also social
:46:13. > :46:16.and economic change. We have an obligation to set out the kind of
:46:17. > :46:20.practical changes like Ed Miliband talked about that would make a real
:46:21. > :46:24.difference to the lives and opportunities of Scots. But an
:46:25. > :46:28.honest politician would also tell the public that they may not be able
:46:29. > :46:33.to deliver this. It is up to the Scottish people to make their
:46:34. > :46:38.decision. I hope and believe we will reject the independence. Then we
:46:39. > :46:41.have a chance... Opinion polls have shown for more than two years that
:46:42. > :46:47.the prospect of change at Westminster is real. The
:46:48. > :46:50.Nationalists are trying to equate antipathy to the Conservatives as a
:46:51. > :46:55.requirement to vote for yes in the referendum. The truth is I think the
:46:56. > :46:59.Scottish people are wiser than that. We can differentiate between the
:47:00. > :47:03.deep anger many others feel hold towards the conservative Government
:47:04. > :47:07.that have less than nine months left to run and it permits tries to break
:47:08. > :47:11.up the country. I think that is why the majority of Scots are opposing
:47:12. > :47:15.independence, but I think they are very clear that he wants change and
:47:16. > :47:19.that involves constitutional change and it falls to Scottish Labour to
:47:20. > :47:23.assume that mantle of responsibility. On the change that
:47:24. > :47:29.Ed Miliband and Ed Balls are proposing, this talk of returning to
:47:30. > :47:34.the 50p tax rate, is that a political or economic decision? I
:47:35. > :47:38.think it is a very sensible decision. While we are dealing with
:47:39. > :47:43.the deficit, and it was framed in the context of dealing with the
:47:44. > :47:48.deficit, it would be right, let me finish, it is right for those with
:47:49. > :47:54.the broadest shoulders to bear a heavy responsibility. So it is
:47:55. > :47:57.political? it is part of a strategy to deal with the deficit and
:47:58. > :48:02.continued to deliver a fairer society in these tough times. The
:48:03. > :48:07.estimates as to how much it will yield go between ?100 million and ?1
:48:08. > :48:15.billion. But most people watching that people earning over ?50,000,
:48:16. > :48:22.will think that is OK. Thank you for coming in to speak to us. Well,
:48:23. > :48:28.listening to that interview was SNP MSP Marco Biagi who joins us from
:48:29. > :48:36.our Edinburgh studio. Do you accept that with younger
:48:37. > :48:46.voters the Yes campaign has a mountain to climb? Young people have
:48:47. > :48:59.heard the arguments. In every case they swing strongly towards the Yes
:49:00. > :49:04.campaign. 11,000 school pupils in Aberdeenshire, rejected your
:49:05. > :49:11.proposition. These surveys over the last year have not shown that the
:49:12. > :49:18.entire population has been one round. The survey this morning shows
:49:19. > :49:27.the kind of progress that the Yes campaign has made. Young people are
:49:28. > :49:30.no different to anybody else. Do you accept the point being made by
:49:31. > :49:39.Douglas Alexander in terms of the sample size of this survey? It is
:49:40. > :49:48.not a one off. It is a small sample. There has been a consistent trend in
:49:49. > :49:57.these debates. Young people want to talk about what Scotland can
:49:58. > :50:07.achieve. Young people see the No campaign as similar to a teacher
:50:08. > :50:12.that tells you what you cannot do. They young person that we spoke to
:50:13. > :50:15.who is going to vote against independence says he wants answers
:50:16. > :50:24.in terms of the finance of independence. More flesh on the bone
:50:25. > :50:34.is needed. Young people hear both sides. They hear the financial
:50:35. > :50:43.argument. Scotland receives 9.3% of the spending that contributes 9.9%
:50:44. > :50:49.of the funding. The question of identity seems to be at the
:50:50. > :50:56.forefront of the No campaign. The only people making this an issue of
:50:57. > :51:07.identity is the No campaign. What is the position of the SNP if there is
:51:08. > :51:16.a No vote? Does the SNP become a campaign group for increased
:51:17. > :51:26.devolution? You continue to believe what you believe. I will still hold
:51:27. > :51:33.true to my principles. But you keep telling us that surveys suggest that
:51:34. > :51:48.people want more powers for the Scottish Parliament. We are putting
:51:49. > :51:52.independence to the people. You have rejected the Constitutional
:51:53. > :51:55.Convention. You are saying that if there is a No vote you will not
:51:56. > :52:05.campaign for more powers for the Scottish Parliament. The other
:52:06. > :52:14.parties are engaged in a confidence trick. The only way we will have a
:52:15. > :52:21.concrete proposal is if there is I guess vote for independence. -- if
:52:22. > :52:29.there is a Yes vote for independence. Labour is talking
:52:30. > :52:35.about 50p tax rate if they are returned to power in 2015. In an
:52:36. > :52:40.independent Scotland should those with the broadest shoulders pay
:52:41. > :52:52.more? The UK is the fourth most equal -- the UK is the fourth most
:52:53. > :52:58.unequal country in the OECD. There will be an SNP Government for at
:52:59. > :53:06.least two mackerel years until Independence Day. Do you support the
:53:07. > :53:11.50p tax rate? That was introduced by the Labour Party more as a trap for
:53:12. > :53:20.the Tories. It was only in effect for nine months. It came at the same
:53:21. > :53:25.time as a VAT hike that hit ordinary working people up and down the
:53:26. > :53:32.country. Fight you for joining us. -- thank
:53:33. > :53:35.you for joining us. "We need more information" - that's
:53:36. > :53:38.a familiar refrain in this referendum campaign. In Glasgow this
:53:39. > :53:41.weekend, women from across the country searched for answers. At the
:53:42. > :53:43.Scottish Women's Convention event, the deputy First Minister said,
:53:44. > :53:47.under independence, she would argue for at least 40 per cent of places
:53:48. > :53:51.on boards to be occupied by women. Labour, under the "Better Together"
:53:52. > :53:55.banner, said staying in the UK meant more would be done to make pay
:53:56. > :54:00.equal. Laura Maxwell has more. Hands up for the truth legend Mark
:54:01. > :54:11.how will my country, society and family benefit? The economy, free
:54:12. > :54:16.education, childcare. This debate is taking place away from what is
:54:17. > :54:29.described as the usual meal power struggles. -- the usual Machell
:54:30. > :54:36.power struggles. What we know is their respective of
:54:37. > :54:46.whether it is I guess vote or a No vote the political landscape will be
:54:47. > :54:57.altered for ever. With the two opposing sides present how did they
:54:58. > :55:02.lay out their vision? Women are rightly asking hard questions.
:55:03. > :55:08.Audiences of women are always tough audiences. I believe that if we can
:55:09. > :55:12.persuade a majority of women that independence is the right thing for
:55:13. > :55:18.Scotland then we will win the referendum. I am confident of doing
:55:19. > :55:22.that. Many women across Scotland now from being in control of household
:55:23. > :55:25.budgets how important it is to make your own decisions rather than
:55:26. > :55:31.allowing decisions to be taken elsewhere. That is the key message.
:55:32. > :55:38.We have got big questions to ask ourselves. We need to ask about the
:55:39. > :55:42.protection of our pensions. Also, Labour would make strong
:55:43. > :55:53.commitments. We need to step up the pace on low pay. We would introduce
:55:54. > :56:05.contracts to incentivise. We would protect pregnant women at work.
:56:06. > :56:10.In an independent Scotland we can create a new culture. We can create
:56:11. > :56:19.a better environment. We can create somewhere that is more optimistic. I
:56:20. > :56:24.am still undecided. Today the Yes campaign is quite strong. But there
:56:25. > :56:31.are a lot of questions that have not been answered. I might still be
:56:32. > :56:36.undecided until September. I believe that we are Better Together. The
:56:37. > :56:44.four nations work very well together at the moment. The issues are not
:56:45. > :56:47.solely for women to debate. The point of the conference was not to
:56:48. > :56:52.change minds, just revived the space for the debate to take place.
:56:53. > :56:55.You're watching Sunday Politics Scotland and the time is coming up
:56:56. > :57:09.for Midday. So let's cross now for the news.
:57:10. > :57:11.Environmental campaigners have published league tables which they
:57:12. > :57:14.say identify Scotland's most polluted streets.
:57:15. > :57:17.Friends of the Earth Scotland have warned their research shows air
:57:18. > :57:20.pollution from vehicles is a major threat to health, even in some
:57:21. > :57:22.smaller towns and villages. The Scottish Government says pollution
:57:23. > :57:33.is falling, but the pressure group is calling for urgent action.
:57:34. > :57:39.Missing health targets in Perth, even in small villagers in some
:57:40. > :57:47.parts of West Lothian. It is surprising where you can find an air
:57:48. > :57:55.pollution Rob Wharne. -- and air pollution problem.
:57:56. > :58:03.Our republican march has taken place. -- a republican march. The
:58:04. > :58:16.organisers had hoped to march through the West End, but the
:58:17. > :58:19.council refused that. A rare medieval gravestone is
:58:20. > :58:25.leaving its home in Glasgow for the first time in its 1000 year history.
:58:26. > :58:28.The "hogback" is being moved to London to form part of an exhibition
:58:29. > :58:31.on Vikings at the British Museum. The ornately carved half-tonne stone
:58:32. > :58:37.is one of five, on permanent display in Govan Old Parish Church.
:58:38. > :58:40.is one This afternoon there will be
:58:41. > :58:54.blustery showers. There will be some sunny spells. It will feel quite
:58:55. > :58:59.cold. Met office warnings are in force around the coast. More rain in
:59:00. > :59:07.the North West. Wintry everywhere else.
:59:08. > :59:10.There was no surprises at Cowdenbeath last week. The Labour
:59:11. > :59:13.party cruised to victory and increased their majority. The win
:59:14. > :59:17.was very much predicted, but perhaps not the extent. The SNP, after
:59:18. > :59:20.almost seven years in Government, didn't expect much, but fought back
:59:21. > :59:24.with a doorstep poll which showed 41 per cent support for independence.
:59:25. > :59:27.In a moment we'll speak to the winner, but first Andrew Kerr was
:59:28. > :59:35.there on the night. Here's his report.
:59:36. > :59:39.I declare Alex Rowley to be elected to serve in the Cowdenbeath
:59:40. > :59:45.constituency. All his life and labour man and now an elected party
:59:46. > :59:50.representative. Alex Rowley knew he was bound to win, but made it clear
:59:51. > :59:58.he did not take the people of the Cowdenbeath constituency for
:59:59. > :00:01.granted. Unemployment, youth unemployment, the threat to jobs,
:00:02. > :00:06.these are big concerns. Good news for the leadership. They believe
:00:07. > :00:13.Scots are falling back in love with Labour. The turnout was very cool at
:00:14. > :00:20.35%. Labour was heartened by the swing of 11% to them. It is
:00:21. > :00:23.important to treat people with respect and not take them for
:00:24. > :00:28.granted. But there is no doubt that the scale of the victory is very
:00:29. > :00:33.significant. For the SNP it was always a difficult one. Cowdenbeath
:00:34. > :00:40.did not fall into their hands in 2011 and it was not likely to do so
:00:41. > :00:48.on Thursday night. They consoled themselves and tried to project a
:00:49. > :00:52.positivity. Their own doorstep Paul suggested 41% would vote in favour
:00:53. > :00:58.of independence at the referendum. # or their own doorstep survey
:00:59. > :01:09.suggested. There are a lot of traditional Labour borders who have
:01:10. > :01:15.said that they are thinking about voting yes in the referendum. Alex
:01:16. > :01:21.Rowley might be the victor tonight, but I believe all of Scotland will
:01:22. > :01:31.be celebrating a Yes vote in September. Are you interested in
:01:32. > :01:36.politics? Not really. The European election in May is the next test of
:01:37. > :01:41.opinion. It will be a worrying time for the Liberal Democrats. The
:01:42. > :01:49.Conservatives were happy with third place. For the main man, time to
:01:50. > :01:53.take his seat in Holyrood. His first task, he says, will be to help
:01:54. > :01:57.people affected by the so-called bedroom tax.
:01:58. > :02:03.Joining me now is the latest MSP Alex Rowley.
:02:04. > :02:06.Given the turnout of less than 35% you cannot use this as an indicator
:02:07. > :02:14.of how people are feeling towards the Labour Party. We foster positive
:02:15. > :02:19.campaign. The response on the doorstep was positive towards
:02:20. > :02:25.Labour. We have a long way to go, but we are making good progress.
:02:26. > :02:28.This SNP survey suggests that many traditional Labour voters will vote
:02:29. > :02:36.yes in September. What do you surveys tell you? We talked to
:02:37. > :02:42.thousands of people. There were a large majority in favour of their No
:02:43. > :02:52.vote. There were a lot of and answered questions. I do not think
:02:53. > :02:55.we can take anything for granted. Do you accept the premise of which is
:02:56. > :02:59.that there might be people who will vote Labour in elections, but may
:03:00. > :03:08.well vote against the Labour Party position in September? That also
:03:09. > :03:11.applies the other way. I came across people who told me they voted SNP
:03:12. > :03:16.that they would not favour independence. The key thing is that
:03:17. > :03:25.over these next couple of months we have two have a positive campaign.
:03:26. > :03:27.People are looking for answers. We need to set out clearly what Labour
:03:28. > :03:35.'s vision is for the future of Scotland. How concerned should you
:03:36. > :03:40.be with the survey in Scotland on Sunday newspaper which is suggesting
:03:41. > :03:49.a swing of 5% in the last four months towards a Yes vote? Is their
:03:50. > :03:53.complacency? We should not be complacent. That was not the message
:03:54. > :03:57.I was picking up on the doorsteps. There are a lot of people who have
:03:58. > :04:01.not decided. There are a lot of questions that have not been
:04:02. > :04:06.answered. It is crucial for Labour to set out its vision. That is what
:04:07. > :04:16.I intend to do in the coming months. Much was made of local
:04:17. > :04:21.issues in this campaign. Realistically, as MSP, you cannot
:04:22. > :04:25.deliver change on that front, can you? Debris is issue that front, can
:04:26. > :04:30.you? Debris is issued else come across on the doorsteps was the
:04:31. > :04:35.level of unemployment. Realistically, there is something
:04:36. > :04:41.that can be done. What can you as a backbencher do? We need to look at
:04:42. > :04:46.the youth guarantee that has been given. They need to look at a
:04:47. > :04:50.college funding. We need to look at partnerships with employers. These
:04:51. > :04:57.are all issues that I will be raising. The first thing I will be
:04:58. > :05:04.doing is signing the bill in terms of the bedroom tax as I think that
:05:05. > :05:12.is an inhumane attack. There are real things that we can do. Thank
:05:13. > :05:16.you. Now, in a moment, we'll be
:05:17. > :05:26.discussing the big events coming up this week, but first let's take a
:05:27. > :05:29.look back at the Week In 60 Seconds. Intelligence whistle-blower Edward
:05:30. > :05:34.Snowden is to stand for the post of rectal at Glasgow University.
:05:35. > :05:39.Elections for the position will take place next month.
:05:40. > :05:42.Public Health Minister Michael Matheson launched a new campaign to
:05:43. > :05:48.encourage more pubs to sell wine in smaller measures. Many people go in
:05:49. > :05:52.for a glass of wine and are only offered a medium or large glass, by
:05:53. > :05:57.introducing this smaller size, it allows people to make an informed
:05:58. > :06:01.choice. The Scottish Green Party called for football fans to be given
:06:02. > :06:05.the first right to buy their clubs during consultation on the land will
:06:06. > :06:07.reform. An environmental report recommended
:06:08. > :06:13.new proposals for dealing with contamination on a beach. Gordon
:06:14. > :06:16.Brown is calling for a clean-up to be financed by the Ministry of
:06:17. > :06:20.defence. Police Scotland announced the intent
:06:21. > :06:27.to close six control rooms as part of efforts to save up to ?73 million
:06:28. > :06:31.by 2026. And coming up this week on BBC Two
:06:32. > :06:36.Scotland is the first in a series of documentaries on the independence
:06:37. > :06:41.referendum. Events that helped shape our nation.
:06:42. > :06:45.There was a sense that we were opening up and are looking out at
:06:46. > :06:49.the world. In the first of a series, we ask how the events led us
:06:50. > :06:56.to one of the most important votes in Scottish history? Britain now has
:06:57. > :07:06.oil. People started to be more confident about their pride in
:07:07. > :07:14.Scotland. Scotland's Smoking Gun. Let's look at the weekend.
:07:15. > :07:16.I'm joined by our guests, columnist and former newspaper editor, Magnus
:07:17. > :07:26.Linklater, and Burdz Eye View blogger, Kate Higgins.
:07:27. > :07:30.Let's talk about that programme. The premise being that events over the
:07:31. > :07:34.last 30 years have led us to this independence referendum, is that the
:07:35. > :07:39.premise you agree with? Up to a point. There was one unexpected
:07:40. > :07:43.event which to place in 2011 which is the SNP winning an overall
:07:44. > :07:49.majority. I don't think anybody expected that. Up until then, there
:07:50. > :07:55.was a steady progress for the -- a steady progress. As a long-time
:07:56. > :08:01.supporter and independent supporter, were you surprised by this? I think
:08:02. > :08:07.everyone was surprised by the overall majority. While there had
:08:08. > :08:11.been a convergence of different factors, we should not underestimate
:08:12. > :08:15.the importance of the cultural flourishing. It was the same in the
:08:16. > :08:23.1980s that gave rise to Scotland United and gave Alf -- and helped
:08:24. > :08:26.galvanise. You have a huge flourishing of support for
:08:27. > :08:29.independence and I think the mood music from cultural aspects is very
:08:30. > :08:34.important to the direction of travel. They'll be more discussion
:08:35. > :08:38.when it airs. Let's talk about events this week
:08:39. > :08:41.and Mark Carney the governor of the Bank of England meeting Alex
:08:42. > :08:46.Salmond. Alex Salmond wants a currency union with the pound. There
:08:47. > :08:51.are reports that the governor named the cool on the idea, comparing it
:08:52. > :08:55.to the euro, which has had problems due to fiscal issues in member
:08:56. > :09:03.states. I presume Mark Carney will be wary of expressing to build an
:09:04. > :09:07.opinion. Yes, but he seems to be hardening his line. He is now
:09:08. > :09:12.suggesting that there would be significant obstacles to Scotland
:09:13. > :09:19.joining a currency union and I think what he is hinting there is not that
:09:20. > :09:24.Scotland would not be able to join a monetary union, but that it would be
:09:25. > :09:27.a very hard negotiation before it gets in and that the conditions
:09:28. > :09:32.imposed by the bank of England would perhaps be far tougher than Alex
:09:33. > :09:37.Salmond has indicated. I think that is the problem. It is a political
:09:38. > :09:44.problem. Is it the best solution? I think it is the only solution. I
:09:45. > :09:48.cannot see a Scottish pound being able to survive initially. Joining
:09:49. > :09:52.the Euro, I don't think any Scots would want that. I think it has to
:09:53. > :09:58.be the pound, but I think it will be tough. People like Jim Sellers: For
:09:59. > :10:05.a Scottish pound. Is this a solution that nationalists would want to? The
:10:06. > :10:11.short term solution of joining the starlings and is absolutely the
:10:12. > :10:15.right thing to do. Just on Mark Carney's intervention, let us make
:10:16. > :10:21.this clear, he is not a foreign dignitary, we help pay his wages, he
:10:22. > :10:25.has a duty to represent the whole of the argument to the whole of the UK.
:10:26. > :10:32.And that is also to represent Scotland's interests. Indeed. He is
:10:33. > :10:37.an independent voice though. Alex Salmon keeps making the argument
:10:38. > :10:42.that if he disagrees as an independent voice, he should be
:10:43. > :10:48.saying so. And as an independent voice, he has a duty to present all
:10:49. > :10:55.of the arguments and not just one camp's. Let's look at this opinion
:10:56. > :11:07.poll. It is a poll for Scotland on Sunday. It suggests a large swing
:11:08. > :11:14.towards yes. I presume you and others will be ecstatic. Absolutely.
:11:15. > :11:19.It has come a bit later in the day then perhaps we would have liked to
:11:20. > :11:24.have seen. But they have always talked about momentum, not about
:11:25. > :11:31.game changes or a Eureka moment. These small-scale conversations and
:11:32. > :11:36.not fighting a air war, fighting a grand battle to engage with people
:11:37. > :11:41.and communities. It seems to be bearing fruit. We are only shifting
:11:42. > :11:45.voters from no into undecided, but when you take what they would prefer
:11:46. > :11:49.to happen were they to choose now, clearly people are leaning towards
:11:50. > :11:59.independence and there are eight months to go. Those figures strip
:12:00. > :12:06.out the do not knows. Clearly, they are the battle ground. There are two
:12:07. > :12:11.caveats at about this poll, it is a small sample and the big swing is
:12:12. > :12:17.amongst younger voters. That is always the most volatile part of any
:12:18. > :12:26.poll. That can change either way. It is under 44s. Yes. Interestingly, a
:12:27. > :12:30.little swing by women voters who appear to be unhappy about the no
:12:31. > :12:35.campaign. I think this is interesting. I think there is a sort
:12:36. > :12:39.of worry, there are definite nerves in the no campaign about their
:12:40. > :12:45.arguments. It was quite well put by Jim Murphy over the weekend when he
:12:46. > :12:51.said that it is quite difficult to mount a yes campaign for a vote for
:12:52. > :12:56.no. I think that is the problem for the no campaign, they really have
:12:57. > :13:01.too find a positive argument. There is a big push towards women voters.
:13:02. > :13:06.We saw the conference yesterday. Nicola Sturgeon talking about an
:13:07. > :13:08.independent Scotland, a requirement of companies having 42 cents
:13:09. > :13:17.representation of women on boards. Is that workable? Absolutely. In
:13:18. > :13:20.Norway, they moved to 40% and it changed the culture. These are the
:13:21. > :13:26.kind of measures we want to see. Women have a right to an equal place
:13:27. > :13:30.in our society and that means pay and representation. These arguments
:13:31. > :13:37.will start winning over women's votes. Just a brief word. Naked
:13:38. > :13:44.political opportunism. They know that they have to win more women
:13:45. > :13:50.voters. Thank you for joining us. That is it from us. I will be back
:13:51. > :13:55.at the same time next week. You enjoyed what is left Sunday. For
:13:56. > :13:58.now. -- I do hope you enjoyed.