:00:40. > :00:46.Good morning and welcome to the Sunday politics. The winter storms
:00:47. > :00:55.forced the government to take control. Is it hanging the
:00:56. > :01:00.environment agency out to dry? Embarrassment as the immigration
:01:01. > :01:07.minister resigns having employed a cleaner with no right to work here.
:01:08. > :01:11.Ed Miliband promises an end to the machine politics of the Labour
:01:12. > :01:15.Party, but will his reforms really weaken the role of the unions? And
:01:16. > :01:18.coming up on Sunday Politics Scotland: Planned reforms to the
:01:19. > :01:22.legal system have been branded "a shambles" by opposition leaders.
:01:23. > :01:23.We'll be speaking to the man at the top, Justice Secretary Kenny
:01:24. > :01:37.MacAskill. about strife on the Underground. All
:01:38. > :01:43.of that and after a week of very public coalition spats can David
:01:44. > :01:48.Cameron and Nick Clegg keep the coalition show on the road? Two
:01:49. > :01:53.senior party figures will go head to head. And with me, Helen Lewis, Nick
:01:54. > :01:58.Watt and Iain Martin who would not know they Somerset Levels from their
:01:59. > :02:03.Norfolk Broads, but that will not stop them tweeting their thoughts.
:02:04. > :02:09.We start with the strange Case of the Immigration Minister, his
:02:10. > :02:13.cleaner and some lost documents. Yesterday Mark Harper tendered his
:02:14. > :02:16.resignation, telling the media he had discovered the cleaner who
:02:17. > :02:21.worked for him for seven years did not have the right to work in the
:02:22. > :02:26.UK. The Communities Secretary Eric Pickles said he had done the
:02:27. > :02:31.honourable thing. I was sad to see him go, he was a strong minister.
:02:32. > :02:38.Had he been a member of the public he would not have done anything
:02:39. > :02:42.wrong, but he set himself a very high standard and he felt that
:02:43. > :02:47.standard and honourably stood down. This would seem like a good
:02:48. > :02:51.resignation, maybe unlike the Baroness Scotland one years ago on a
:02:52. > :02:58.similar issue, but have we been told the full story? We wait to see that.
:02:59. > :03:03.Labour have picked up saying he is an honourable man, that the reason
:03:04. > :03:07.why he resigned is these very owners checks that landlords and employers
:03:08. > :03:13.will have to perform on employees over their documentation. The most
:03:14. > :03:17.interesting line is that, we do not require them to be experts or spot
:03:18. > :03:24.anything other than an obvious forgery. The suggestion that there
:03:25. > :03:30.is the document he was presented with originality, which he lost, was
:03:31. > :03:35.on home office paper and was perhaps not entirely accurate. That is the
:03:36. > :03:39.embarrassment. He is the minister putting through a bill that will
:03:40. > :03:44.demand tougher checks on people and he himself did not do enough checks
:03:45. > :03:48.to discover she was illegal. There is an odd bit where he involves the
:03:49. > :03:54.home office later to check her out as well. He writes a resignation
:03:55. > :03:59.letter and he has to hold himself to pay higher standard. He has done the
:04:00. > :04:04.David Laws approach to this, resign quickly and he can come back. David
:04:05. > :04:13.Cameron wants him to return swiftly to the frontbenchers. He is a state
:04:14. > :04:21.school educated lad. He is the kind of Tory that the Tories are in short
:04:22. > :04:25.supply of. He is a rising star. I would caution on this idea that it
:04:26. > :04:31.is customary that whenever anyone resigns, it is always thought they
:04:32. > :04:36.will come straight back into office. If only the outside world worked
:04:37. > :04:40.like that. It is not, in a company if the HR person resigns, he is such
:04:41. > :04:48.a great chap he will be back next week. There is a silver lining for
:04:49. > :04:54.David Cameron is he has been able to move Harriet Bond up as he moves
:04:55. > :05:01.everyone up. But nobody will see her in the whips office because she is
:05:02. > :05:06.not allowed to appear on television. And if you three want to resign? Do
:05:07. > :05:14.not hate you are coming back next week. But we will do it with honour.
:05:15. > :05:18.It has been a hellish week for residents of coastal areas with more
:05:19. > :05:22.storms bringing more flooding and after Prince Charles visited the
:05:23. > :05:25.Somerset Levels on Tuesday the Government has been keen to show it
:05:26. > :05:33.has got a grip on the situation at last.
:05:34. > :05:37.For last weekend's Sunday Politics I made the watery journey to the
:05:38. > :05:44.village of Muchelney, cut off for a whole month. Now everyone has been
:05:45. > :05:50.dropping in. First it was Prince Charles on a park bench pulled by a
:05:51. > :06:03.tractor. He waded into the row about how the floods have been handled.
:06:04. > :06:09.Next it was the chair of the Environment Agency, Lord Smith, who
:06:10. > :06:15.faced angry residents. Sought the river is out. That is precisely what
:06:16. > :06:19.we are going to do. Where he faced, a resident, he did not need that
:06:20. > :06:26.many. David Cameron went for a look as well and gave the region what it
:06:27. > :06:31.wanted, more pumps, more money and in the long-term the return of
:06:32. > :06:35.dredging. There are lessons to learn. The pause in bridging that
:06:36. > :06:40.took place from the late 1990s was wrong and we need to get dredging
:06:41. > :06:45.again. When the water levels come down and it is safe to dredge, we
:06:46. > :06:51.will dredging to make sure these rivers and stitches can carry a
:06:52. > :06:55.better capacity. The Environment Secretary Owen Paterson has not been
:06:56. > :07:00.seen again because he is recovering from emergency eye surgery. In the
:07:01. > :07:08.meantime the floodwaters rose ever higher. Some residents were told to
:07:09. > :07:13.evacuate. In Devon the railway was washed away by the waves leaving a
:07:14. > :07:16.big gap in the network. Look at the weather this weekend. If you can
:07:17. > :07:22.believe it, the storms keep rolling in. What is the long-term solution
:07:23. > :07:28.for flood prone areas of the country? I am joined from Oxford by
:07:29. > :07:35.the editor of The Ecologist magazine, Oliver Tickell, and by
:07:36. > :07:41.local MP Tessa Munt. Tessa, let me come to you first. What do you now
:07:42. > :07:46.want the Government to do? I want it to make sure it does exactly as it
:07:47. > :07:49.promises and delivers what every farmer and landowner around here
:07:50. > :07:55.knows should have been done for years. First, to solve the problems
:07:56. > :07:59.we have right now, but to make sure there is money in the bank for us to
:08:00. > :08:06.carry on doing the maintenance that is necessary. Was it a mistake not
:08:07. > :08:11.to do the dredging? When the waters start to subside does dredging
:08:12. > :08:18.become a key part of this? Yes, of course. It is something the farmers
:08:19. > :08:23.have been asking for four years. When you wander along a footpath by
:08:24. > :08:30.a river and you see trees growing and there is 60% of the capacity
:08:31. > :08:36.only because there is silt, it needs to have a pretty dramatic action
:08:37. > :08:42.right now and then we need to make sure the maintenance is ongoing.
:08:43. > :08:49.Oliver Tickell, was it a mistake to stop the dredging? If the dredging
:08:50. > :08:54.had happened, the land would not be covered in water for so long?
:08:55. > :08:59.Clearly it is necessary to do at least some dredging on these rivers
:09:00. > :09:04.and in particular because these rivers are well above ground level.
:09:05. > :09:09.They are carrying water that comes down off the hills well above the
:09:10. > :09:16.level of the flood plain on the Somerset Levels. They naturally tend
:09:17. > :09:22.to silt up. But the key thing is that is only a small part of the
:09:23. > :09:27.overall solution. What we need is a catchment wide approach to improve
:09:28. > :09:31.infiltration upstream and you also need to manage the flood plain on
:09:32. > :09:39.the levels and upstream so as to have active flood plain that can
:09:40. > :09:43.store water. This idea it is just about dredging is erroneous.
:09:44. > :09:49.Dredging is a part of it, but it is a catchment wide solution. Dredging
:09:50. > :09:57.is only a small part of the solution he says. Yes, of course it is. But
:09:58. > :10:02.look here. With the farmer is locally, the landowners, they know
:10:03. > :10:07.this land will carry water for a few weeks of the year, that is not a
:10:08. > :10:12.problem. But this water has to be taken away and there is a very good
:10:13. > :10:16.system of drainage and it works perfectly well. In my area there are
:10:17. > :10:21.serious problems because the dredging has not taken place. There
:10:22. > :10:28.are lunatic regulations around were when they do do some of dredging,
:10:29. > :10:33.the Environment Agency is asked to take it away because it is
:10:34. > :10:38.considered toxic waste. This is barmy. We need to take the stuff out
:10:39. > :10:44.of the rivers and build the banks up so we create protection in the
:10:45. > :10:49.future. We have to make sure the dredging is done but make sure the
:10:50. > :10:55.drainage works well and we have pumps in places and we have
:10:56. > :11:03.floodgates put onto the rivers. We need to make sure repairs are done
:11:04. > :11:08.more quickly. All right, let me go back to Oliver Tickell. Is it not
:11:09. > :11:11.the case a lot of people on your side of the argument would like to
:11:12. > :11:17.see lands like the Somerset Levels return to natural habitat? Looe I
:11:18. > :11:22.would like a degree of that, but that does not mean the whole place
:11:23. > :11:30.needs to turn into wilderness so it will remain agricultural landscape.
:11:31. > :11:38.Everybody, all the interested parties who signed up to a document
:11:39. > :11:41.called vision 2034 the Somerset Levels envisages most of the area of
:11:42. > :11:47.the Somerset Levels being turned over to extensive grassland and that
:11:48. > :11:54.is what it is best suited for. Let me put that to Tessa Munt. Have you
:11:55. > :12:02.signed up to this where you will end up with extensive grassland? I have
:12:03. > :12:07.seen it, but grass does not grow if water is sitting on this land for
:12:08. > :12:13.weeks and weeks. What you have to remember is a lot of the levels are
:12:14. > :12:15.managed very carefully and they are conservation land and that means
:12:16. > :12:23.cattle are allowed to go out at certain times of the year and in
:12:24. > :12:31.certain numbers. It is well managed. Do you accept it should return to
:12:32. > :12:36.grassland? Grassland, fine, but you cannot call land grassland in the
:12:37. > :12:40.flipping water is on it so long that nothing grows. It is no good at
:12:41. > :12:46.doing that. You have got to make sure it is managed properly.
:12:47. > :12:53.Drainage has been taking place on this land for centuries. It is the
:12:54. > :12:57.case the system is there, but it needs to be maintained properly and
:12:58. > :13:02.we have to have fewer ridiculous regulations that stop action. Last
:13:03. > :13:07.year the flooding minister agreed dredging should take place and
:13:08. > :13:11.everything stopped. Now we have got the promise from the Prime Minister
:13:12. > :13:15.and I thank Prince Charles for that. Is it not time to let the local
:13:16. > :13:19.people run their land rather than being told what to do by the
:13:20. > :13:26.Environment Agency, central Government and the European Union?
:13:27. > :13:32.The internal drainage boards have considerable power in all of this.
:13:33. > :13:36.They wanted to dredge and they were not allowed to. The farmers want to
:13:37. > :13:43.dredge that is what is going to happen, but they have signed up to a
:13:44. > :13:46.comprehensive vision of catchment management and of environmental
:13:47. > :13:52.improvement turning the Somerset Levels into a world-class haven for
:13:53. > :13:57.wildlife. It is not much good if your house is underwater. The
:13:58. > :14:02.farmers themselves, the RSPB, the drainage boards, they have all
:14:03. > :14:07.signed up to this. The real question now is how do we implement that
:14:08. > :14:16.vision? You give the money to the drainage boards. At the moment they
:14:17. > :14:20.pay 27% of their money and have been doing so for years and years and
:14:21. > :14:24.this is farmers' money and it has been going to the drainage boards
:14:25. > :14:29.and they pay the Environment Agency who are meant to be dredging and
:14:30. > :14:33.that has not happened. We have to leave it there. We have run out of
:14:34. > :14:37.time. Last week saw the Labour Party
:14:38. > :14:42.adopts an historic change with its relationship with the unions.
:14:43. > :14:48.Changes to the rules that propelled Ed Miliband to the top. Ed Miliband
:14:49. > :14:53.was elected Labour leader in 2010 by the electoral college system which
:14:54. > :14:57.gives unions, party members and MPs one third of votes each. This would
:14:58. > :15:02.be changed into a simpler one member, one vote system. A union
:15:03. > :15:08.member would have to become an affiliated member of the party. They
:15:09. > :15:15.would have to opt in and pay ?3 a year. But the unions would have 50%
:15:16. > :15:20.of the vote at the conference and around one third of the seats on the
:15:21. > :15:24.National executive committee. The proposals are a financial gamble as
:15:25. > :15:29.well. It is estimated the party could face a drop in funding of up
:15:30. > :15:34.to ?5 million a year when the changes are fully implemented in
:15:35. > :15:39.five years. The leader of the Unite trade union has welcomed the report
:15:40. > :15:46.saying it is music to his ears. The package will be voted on at a
:15:47. > :15:49.special one of conference in March. And the Shadow Business Secretary
:15:50. > :15:58.Chuka Umunna joins me now for the Sunday Interview. Welcome back. In
:15:59. > :16:03.what way will the unions have less power and influence in the Labour
:16:04. > :16:07.Party? This is about ensuring individual trade union members have
:16:08. > :16:13.a direct relationship with the Labour Party. At the moment the
:16:14. > :16:17.monies that come to us are decided at a top level, the general
:16:18. > :16:23.secretaries determine this, whether the individual members want us to be
:16:24. > :16:28.in receipt of those monies or not so we are going to change that so that
:16:29. > :16:32.affiliation fees follow the consent of individual members. Secondly, we
:16:33. > :16:40.want to make sure the individual trade union members, people who
:16:41. > :16:49.teach our children, power via -- fantastic British businesses, we
:16:50. > :16:53.want them to make an active choice, and we are also recognising that in
:16:54. > :17:01.this day and age not everybody wants to become a member of a political
:17:02. > :17:07.party. We haven't got much time. The unions still have 50% of the vote at
:17:08. > :17:23.Labour conferences, there will be the single most important vote, more
:17:24. > :17:34.member -- union members will vote than nonunion members, their power
:17:35. > :17:42.has not diminished at all, has it? In relation to the other parts of
:17:43. > :17:45.the group of people who will be voting in a future leadership
:17:46. > :17:51.contest, we are seeking to move towards more of a one member, one
:17:52. > :17:58.vote process. At the moment we have the absurd situation where I, as a
:17:59. > :18:06.member of Parliament, my vote will count for 1000. MPs are losing...
:18:07. > :18:13.They still have a lot of power. I am a member of the GMB union and the
:18:14. > :18:17.Unite union, also a member of the Fabians as well so I get free votes
:18:18. > :18:20.on top of my vote as a member of Parliament. We are moving to a
:18:21. > :18:26.system where I will have one vote and that is an important part of
:18:27. > :18:31.this. You asked how many people would be casting their votes. The
:18:32. > :18:37.old system, up to 2.8 million ballot papers were sent out with prepaid
:18:38. > :18:47.envelopes for people to return their papers were sent out with prepaid
:18:48. > :18:52.turnout. The idea that you are going to see a big change... Even if
:18:53. > :19:05.your individual party members. In one vital way, your purse strings,
:19:06. > :19:06.your individual party members. In the unions will be more powerful
:19:07. > :19:17.than ever because at the moment they have to hand over 8 million to
:19:18. > :19:19.than ever because at the moment they fraction of that now. They will get
:19:20. > :19:29.to keep that money, but then come the election you go to them and give
:19:30. > :19:36.them a lot of money -- and they will have you then. They won't have us,
:19:37. > :19:40.as you put it! The idea that individual trade union members don't
:19:41. > :19:45.have their own view, their own voice, and just do what their
:19:46. > :19:49.general secretaries do is absurd. They will make their own decision,
:19:50. > :19:55.and we want them to make that and not have their leadership decide
:19:56. > :20:00.that for them. Let me go to the money. The Labour Party manifesto
:20:01. > :20:07.will be reflecting the interests of Britain, and the idea that somehow
:20:08. > :20:11.people can say we are not going to give you this money unless you do
:20:12. > :20:15.this or that, we will give you a policy agenda which is appropriate
:20:16. > :20:20.for the British people, regardless of what implications that may have
:20:21. > :20:25.financially. They will have more seats than anybody else in the NEC
:20:26. > :20:31.and they will hold the purse strings. They will be the
:20:32. > :20:35.determining factor. They won't be. Unite is advocating a 70% rate of
:20:36. > :20:44.income tax, there is no way we will have that in our manifesto. Unite is
:20:45. > :20:57.advocating taking back contracts and no compensation basis, we would not
:20:58. > :21:08.-- there is no way we would do that. How many chief executives of the
:21:09. > :21:16.FTSE 100 are backing Labour? We have lots of chief executives backing
:21:17. > :21:19.Labour. I don't know the exact number. Ed Miliband has just placed
:21:20. > :21:31.an important business person in the House of Lords, the former chief
:21:32. > :21:40.executive of the ITV, Bill Grimsey. How many? You can only name one?
:21:41. > :21:46.Bill Grimsey, there is also John Mills. Anyone who is currently
:21:47. > :21:50.chairman of the chief executive? With the greatest respect, you are
:21:51. > :21:55.talking about less than half the percent of business leaders in our
:21:56. > :22:02.country, we have almost 5 million businesses, not all FTSE 100
:22:03. > :22:08.businesses, not all listed, and we are trying to get people from across
:22:09. > :22:23.the country of all different shapes and sizes. Let's widen it to the
:22:24. > :22:29.FTSE 250. That is 250 out of 5 million companies. The largest ones,
:22:30. > :22:33.they make the profits and provide the jobs. Two thirds of private
:22:34. > :22:37.sector jobs in this country come from small and medium-sized
:22:38. > :22:41.businesses, and small and medium-sized businesses are an
:22:42. > :22:52.important part of a large companies supply chains. So you cannot name a
:22:53. > :22:59.single chairman from the FTSE 250, correct? I don't know all the
:23:00. > :23:10.chairman. Are you going to fight the next election without a single boss
:23:11. > :23:13.of a FTSE 250 company? I have named some important business people, but
:23:14. > :23:23.the most important thing is that we are not coming out with a manifesto
:23:24. > :23:33.for particular interests, but for broader interest. Let me show you,
:23:34. > :23:47.Digby Jones says Labour's policy is, "if it creates wealth, let's kick
:23:48. > :23:54.it" . Another quote, that it borders on predatory taxation. They think
:23:55. > :24:00.you are anti-business. I don't agree with them. One of the interesting
:24:01. > :24:04.things about Sir Stuart's comments on the predatory taxation and I
:24:05. > :24:08.think he was referring to the 50p rate of tax is that he made some
:24:09. > :24:14.comments arguing against the reduction of the top rate of tax
:24:15. > :24:18.from 50p. He is saying something different now. Digby of course has
:24:19. > :24:24.his own opinions, he has never been a member of the Labour Party. Let me
:24:25. > :24:28.come onto this business of the top rate of tax, do you accept or don't
:24:29. > :24:33.you that there is a point when higher rates of income tax become
:24:34. > :24:39.counter-productive? Ultimately you want to have the lowest tax rates
:24:40. > :24:44.possible. Do you accept there is a certain level you actually get less
:24:45. > :24:50.money? I think ultimately there is a level beyond you could go which
:24:51. > :24:55.would be counter-productive, for example the 75% rate of tax I
:24:56. > :25:08.mentioned earlier, being advocated by Unite in France. Most French
:25:09. > :25:16.higher earners will pay less tax than under your plans. I beg your
:25:17. > :25:22.pardon, with the 50p? Under your proposals, people here will pay more
:25:23. > :25:28.tax than French higher earners. If you are asking if in terms of the
:25:29. > :25:34.level, you asked the question and I answered it, do I think if you reach
:25:35. > :25:39.a level beyond which the tax burden becomes counter-productive, can I
:25:40. > :25:43.give you a number what that would be, I cannot but let me explain -
:25:44. > :25:49.the reason we have sought to increase its two 50p is that we can
:25:50. > :25:54.get in revenue to reduce the deficit. In an ideal world you
:25:55. > :25:57.wouldn't need a 50p rate of tax which is why during our time in
:25:58. > :26:07.office we didn't have one, because we didn't have those issues. Sure,
:26:08. > :26:13.though you cannot tell me how much the 50p will raise. In the three
:26:14. > :26:23.years of operation we think it raised ?10 billion. You think. That
:26:24. > :26:27.was based on extrapolation from the British library. It is at least
:26:28. > :26:32.possible I would suggest, for the sake of argument, that when you
:26:33. > :26:39.promise to take over half people's income, which is what you will do if
:26:40. > :26:50.you get your way, the richest 1% currently account for 70 5% of all
:26:51. > :26:57.tax revenues. -- 75%. Is it not a danger that if you take more out of
:26:58. > :27:06.them, they will just go? I don't think so, we are talking about the
:27:07. > :27:09.top 1% here. If you look at the directors of sub 5 million turnover
:27:10. > :27:24.companies, the average managing director of that gets around
:27:25. > :27:33.?87,000. Let me narrow it down to something else. Let's take the 0.1%
:27:34. > :27:39.of top taxpayers, down to fewer than 30,000 people. They account for over
:27:40. > :27:44.14% of all of the income tax revenues. Only 29,000 people. If
:27:45. > :27:51.they go because you are going to take over half their income, you
:27:52. > :27:58.have lost a huge chunk of your tax base. They could easily go, at
:27:59. > :28:02.tipping point they could go. What we are advocating here is not
:28:03. > :28:07.controversial. Those with the broadest shoulders, it is not
:28:08. > :28:17.unreasonable to ask them to share the heavier burden. Can you name one
:28:18. > :28:24.other major economy that subscribes to this? Across Europe, for example
:28:25. > :28:31.in Sweden they have higher tax rates than us. Can you name one major
:28:32. > :28:37.economy? I couldn't pluck one out of the air, I can see where you are
:28:38. > :28:42.coming from, I don't agree with it. I think most people subscribe to the
:28:43. > :28:49.fact that those with wider shoulders should carry the heavy a burden. We
:28:50. > :28:53.have run out of time but thank you for being here.
:28:54. > :28:58.Over the past week it seems that Nick Clegg has activated a new Lib
:28:59. > :29:01.Dem strategy - 'Get Gove'. After a very public spat over who should
:29:02. > :29:04.head up the schools inspection service Ofsted, Lib Dem sources have
:29:05. > :29:07.continued to needle away at the Education Secretary. And other
:29:08. > :29:31.senior Lib Dems have also taken aim at their coalition partners. Here's
:29:32. > :29:34.Giles Dilnot. It's unlikely the polite welcome of these school
:29:35. > :29:36.children to Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg and his party colleague
:29:37. > :29:39.schools minister David Laws would be so forthcoming right now from the
:29:40. > :29:42.man in charge of schools Conservative Michael Gove. Mr Laws
:29:43. > :29:45.is said to have been furious with The Education secretary over the
:29:46. > :29:48.decision to remove Sally Morgan as chair of Ofsted. But those who know
:29:49. > :29:51.the inner working of the Lib Dems say that's just understandable. When
:29:52. > :29:54.you have the department not being consulted, it would be possible for
:29:55. > :29:57.him to not publicly comment. The remarkable thing would be if he
:29:58. > :30:08.hadn't said anything at all. We should be careful to understand this
:30:09. > :30:18.is not always part of a preplanned decision. There is a growing sense
:30:19. > :30:22.that inside Number Ten this is a concerted Lib Dem strategy, we also
:30:23. > :30:26.understand there is no love lost between Nick Clegg and Michael Gove
:30:27. > :30:32.to say the least, and a growing frustration that if the Lib Dems
:30:33. > :30:35.think such so-called yellow and blue attacks can help them with the
:30:36. > :30:43.election, they can also damage the long-term prospects of the Coalition
:30:44. > :30:45.post 2015. One spat does not a divorce make but perhaps even more
:30:46. > :30:48.significant has been Chief Secretary to the Treasury Danny Alexander's
:30:49. > :30:51.recent newspaper interview firmly spiking any room for George Osborne
:30:52. > :30:54.to manoeuvre on lowering the highest income tax rate to 40p. All this
:30:55. > :30:57.builds on the inclusion in Government at the reshuffle of
:30:58. > :31:00.people like Norman Baker at the Home Office and Simon Hughes at Justice
:31:01. > :31:02.people who are happier to publically express doubt on Conservative
:31:03. > :31:15.policy, unlike say Jeremy Browne who was removed and who has made plain
:31:16. > :31:19.his views on Coalition. It is difficult for us to demonstrate that
:31:20. > :31:28.we are more socialist than an Ed Miliband Labour led party. Even if
:31:29. > :31:34.we did wish to demonstrate it, doing it in coalition with the
:31:35. > :31:38.Conservatives would be harder still. Nonetheless a differentiation
:31:39. > :31:44.strategy was always likely as 2015 approached, so is there evidence it
:31:45. > :31:48.works? Or of the work we publish shows the Lib Dems have a huge
:31:49. > :31:53.problem in terms of their distinctiveness, so attacking their
:31:54. > :31:56.coalition partners or the Labour Party is helpful in showing what
:31:57. > :32:02.they are against, but there are bigger problem is showing what they
:32:03. > :32:07.are for. And one Conservative MP with access to Number Ten as part of
:32:08. > :32:12.the PM's policy board says yellow on blue attacks are misplaced and
:32:13. > :32:17.irresponsible. At this stage when all the hard work is being done and
:32:18. > :32:25.the country is back on its feet, the Lib Dems are choosing the time to
:32:26. > :32:29.step away from the coalition. That is your position, but do you suspect
:32:30. > :32:35.coming up to the next election we will see more of this? I think the
:32:36. > :32:41.Lib Dems are about as hard to pin down as a weasel in Vaseline. And
:32:42. > :32:45.with the public's view of politicians right now, and wants to
:32:46. > :32:52.be seen as slicker than a well oiled weasel? And we have Lib Dem peer
:32:53. > :33:02.Matthew Oakeshott and senior Conservative backbencher Bernard
:33:03. > :33:06.Jenkin. Matthew, the Lib Dems are now picking fights with the Tories
:33:07. > :33:11.on a range of issues, some of them trivial. Is this a Pirelli used to
:33:12. > :33:19.Lib Dem withdrawal from the coalition? I do not know, I am not
:33:20. > :33:23.privy to Nick Clegg's in strategy. Some of us have been independent for
:33:24. > :33:29.some time. I resigned over treatment of the banks. That is now being
:33:30. > :33:35.sorted out. But what is significant is we have seen a string of attacks,
:33:36. > :33:41.almost an enemy within strategy. When you have Nick Clegg, David Laws
:33:42. > :33:48.and Danny Alexander, the three key people closest to the Conservatives,
:33:49. > :33:51.when you see all of them attacking, and this morning Nick Clegg has had
:33:52. > :33:56.a go at the Conservatives over drug policy. There is a string of
:33:57. > :34:03.policies where something is going on. It is difficult to do an enemy
:34:04. > :34:09.within strategy. I believe as many Lib Dems do that we should withdraw
:34:10. > :34:12.from the coalition six months to one year before the election so we can
:34:13. > :34:17.put our positive policies across rather than having this tricky
:34:18. > :34:25.strategy of trying to do it from within. Why does David Cameron need
:34:26. > :34:30.the Lib Dems? He probably does not. The country generally favoured the
:34:31. > :34:33.coalition to start with. Voters like to see politicians are working
:34:34. > :34:39.together and far more of that goes on in Westminster then we see. Most
:34:40. > :34:47.of my committee reports are unanimous reports from all parties.
:34:48. > :34:55.Why does he need them? I do not think he does. You would be happy to
:34:56. > :34:59.see the Lib Dems go? I would always be happy to see a single minority
:35:00. > :35:04.Government because it would be easier for legislation. The
:35:05. > :35:08.legislation you could not get through would not get through
:35:09. > :35:13.whether we were in coalition or not. The 40p tax rate, there
:35:14. > :35:17.probably is not a majority in the House of Commons at the moment,
:35:18. > :35:22.despite what Nick Clegg originally said. It does not make much
:35:23. > :35:26.difference. What makes a difference from the perspective of the
:35:27. > :35:31.committee I chair is historically we have had single party Government
:35:32. > :35:35.that have collective responsibility and clarity. The reason that is
:35:36. > :35:40.important is because nothing gets done if everybody is at sixes and
:35:41. > :35:45.sevens in the Government. Everything stops, there is paralysis as the row
:35:46. > :35:50.goes on. Civil servants do not know who they are working for. If it
:35:51. > :35:57.carries on getting fractures, there is a bigger argument to get out. If
:35:58. > :36:02.it continues at this level of intensity of the enemy within
:36:03. > :36:07.strategy as you have described it, can the coalition survived another
:36:08. > :36:10.16 months of this? It is also a question should they. I never
:36:11. > :36:18.thought I would say this, I agree with Bernard. Interestingly earlier
:36:19. > :36:22.Chuka Umunna missed the point talking about business support.
:36:23. > :36:25.Business is worried about this anti-European rhetoric and that is a
:36:26. > :36:29.deep split between the Liberal Democrats and the UKIP wing of the
:36:30. > :36:35.Tory party. That is really damaging and that is something we need to
:36:36. > :36:40.make our own case separately on. Do you get fed up when you hear
:36:41. > :36:44.constant Lib Dem attacks on you? What makes me fed up is my own party
:36:45. > :36:50.cannot respond in kind because we are in coalition. I would love to
:36:51. > :36:58.have this much more open debate. I would like to see my own party
:36:59. > :37:00.leader, for example as he did in the House of Commons, it was the Liberal
:37:01. > :37:05.Democrats who blocked the referendum on the house of lords and if we want
:37:06. > :37:07.to get this bill through it should be a Government bill. We know we can
:37:08. > :37:31.get it It strikes me that given that the
:37:32. > :37:41.attacks from the Liberal Democrats are now coming from the left, is
:37:42. > :37:43.this a represent -- does this represent that Nick Clegg now
:37:44. > :37:48.accepts that the only way he can save seeds is to get disillusioned
:37:49. > :37:56.left voters to come back to the fold? The fact is that we have lost
:37:57. > :38:01.over half our vote at the last election. At the moment there is no
:38:02. > :38:06.sign of it coming back. And we're getting close to the next election.
:38:07. > :38:11.I welcome it if Nick Clegg is starting to address that problem but
:38:12. > :38:17.just talking about the centre is not the answer. Most Liberal Democrat
:38:18. > :38:20.voters are actually radical, progressive people, who want to see
:38:21. > :38:29.a fair country and they'll is divided society will stop we must
:38:30. > :38:33.make sure that we maximise our vote. Final question. We know what you
:38:34. > :38:38.want. What what do you think will happen? Will this coalition survived
:38:39. > :38:44.all the way to the election or break-up beforehand? It will
:38:45. > :38:50.probably break up beforehand. The long-term economic plan is working.
:38:51. > :38:58.Further changes are being held back by the Liberal Democrats. When will
:38:59. > :39:05.it break-up? It has lasted longer than I thought. But when will it
:39:06. > :39:14.break-up? At least six months before the election. Do you think it will
:39:15. > :39:21.survive? It has delivered a lot that is running out of steam. It depends
:39:22. > :39:25.what happens in the May elections. There will be very strong pressure
:39:26. > :39:29.on the Liberal Democrats to avoid a wipe-out by coming out and putting
:39:30. > :39:36.our own policies forward to show that we can be encouraging with
:39:37. > :39:42.Labour next time. You both agree, television history has been made!
:39:43. > :39:45.You are watching the Sunday politics.
:39:46. > :39:48.Good morning and welcome to Sunday Politics Scotland. Coming up on the
:39:49. > :39:53.programme - Not creaking, but croaking. Claims that our courts are
:39:54. > :39:56.operating under pressure. It's the latest in a string of criticisms
:39:57. > :40:02.over planned changes to the justice syste. -- system. We'll put these
:40:03. > :40:05.points to the Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill who joins us live.
:40:06. > :40:09.And after the intervention of BP boss Bob Dudley in the independence
:40:10. > :40:10.debate, why it's important for the campaigns to seek endorsement from
:40:11. > :40:12.business. There's growing concern that
:40:13. > :40:16.Scotland's prosecution service is under severe strain. Sources within
:40:17. > :40:19.the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service have told Sunday
:40:20. > :40:23.Politics that it's a system "that's not creaking but croaking". A rising
:40:24. > :40:26.workload is causing delays in court and that's being noticed by Judges
:40:27. > :40:28.and Sheriffs. The removal of corroboration could further increase
:40:29. > :40:35.case, an issue that the Justice Secretary is under fire over again
:40:36. > :40:45.this week. -- increase cases. We'll speak to him in a moment, but first
:40:46. > :40:55.Andrew Kerr has this report. It seems that the lock to shares are --
:40:56. > :41:05.law practitioners are tackling those who make the law. Cases show that
:41:06. > :41:14.figures have risen: And staff numbers are falling: Case numbers
:41:15. > :41:20.take a long time and there are constant adjournments. The system is
:41:21. > :41:25.said to be not creaking, but croaking. A staff survey reflects
:41:26. > :41:32.that, only 16% had confidence in senior management, and we heard that
:41:33. > :41:37.sickness levels are appalling in both admin and legal. There are
:41:38. > :41:46.major issues in terms of the workload, the stress, the lack of
:41:47. > :41:49.separation time -- preparation, and there are some courts that do not
:41:50. > :41:57.take place because of a lack of resources. They are under great
:41:58. > :42:03.pressure and that is increasing. And there are concerns it could get
:42:04. > :42:05.worse if corroboration is abolished. The centuries-old requirement is
:42:06. > :42:13.being struck down in the criminal justice will. What could be the
:42:14. > :42:17.consequences? Nobody can get a handle on how many cases that will
:42:18. > :42:23.be. What the additional workload will be. But what is clear is that
:42:24. > :42:29.our members and staff in the fiscal service are already under pressure.
:42:30. > :42:43.Even a relatively small number of additional cases will create even
:42:44. > :42:55.her pressure. -- further. The CEO PFS said:
:42:56. > :43:03.they say it will help them to prepare for future impacts such as
:43:04. > :43:11.corroboration going. There will now be a enquiry into safeguards needed.
:43:12. > :43:16.Opposition leaders say that corroboration must not go before it
:43:17. > :43:22.reports back. Is it not better to work out the fix before deliberately
:43:23. > :43:30.causing the problem? This is a shoddy way to expect the parliament
:43:31. > :43:34.to act. If the review can provide safeguards which make sure there is
:43:35. > :43:39.no danger of miscarriage of justice is then surely this Parliament, at
:43:40. > :43:47.heart, can find a way and means to allow these thousand people to get
:43:48. > :43:54.access to justice. With concerns about corroboration,
:43:55. > :44:00.and a raft of other reforms, there is much for the justice secretary to
:44:01. > :44:05.deal with. And the justice secretary joins me
:44:06. > :44:10.now. Good afternoon. Starting with that quote saying that the system is
:44:11. > :44:17.not creaking but croaking. Do you recognise that description? I do,
:44:18. > :44:23.because I practised in the courts and heard the same complaints. There
:44:24. > :44:27.are challenges in the Crown office but they also put on record that
:44:28. > :44:34.there are fewer cases, and that put this in context, there is a 39 year
:44:35. > :44:38.low in recorded crime, the lowest homicide rate since records began,
:44:39. > :44:43.and a 60% reduction in knife carrying. Scotland is a safer place
:44:44. > :44:50.and the record of police and prosecutors is outstanding. Are you
:44:51. > :44:56.saying that those in the legal system are complaining for no
:44:57. > :45:07.reason? No, there are significant challenges. Organisations, public
:45:08. > :45:11.and private, face challenges. ?1 billion of cuts from Westminster
:45:12. > :45:17.cannot be dealt with easily. But the record of police and prosecutors is
:45:18. > :45:21.exemplary. Is your attempt to change the law on corroboration placing
:45:22. > :45:31.further strain on things? The dean of advocates described the plan as a
:45:32. > :45:34.beginner a poke. -- a pig. You are asking for a change in the law,
:45:35. > :45:43.which will then be reviewed, and further changes will be visited
:45:44. > :45:46.later. Who would vote for that? Politicians are often divided, but
:45:47. > :45:52.where there is unity - police, prosecutors, victims organisations,
:45:53. > :46:01.brave individuals who give up their anonymity to speak out - we have, as
:46:02. > :46:06.a retired High Court judge put it, significant sections of society,
:46:07. > :46:13.who, by the category of victims that they are, are denied access to
:46:14. > :46:20.justice. That cannot be right. The justice committee at the parliament
:46:21. > :46:25.is against it. On the scales of justice we have 170 rape victims in
:46:26. > :46:30.the last two years that the Lord Advocate said lacked access to
:46:31. > :46:35.justice because of corroboration. 3000 cases every year. It is not
:46:36. > :46:45.tens, not hundreds, thousands of able denied access to justice. --
:46:46. > :46:51.people. Surely your case would be even stronger after the review? The
:46:52. > :46:56.Case against corroboration has been made. Not just by victims
:46:57. > :46:59.organisations but why those individuals who have spoken out
:47:00. > :47:05.because they were abused as children and denied access to justice. And it
:47:06. > :47:09.is not just sexual offences. It affects children and the vulnerable,
:47:10. > :47:22.far too many big aims are denied access to justice. -- far too many
:47:23. > :47:27.victims. Let's look at the position of the Labour Party. They had a
:47:28. > :47:30.manifesto commitment to remove corroboration, and they will now
:47:31. > :47:36.vote against it. But then, that is what we accept it from the Labour
:47:37. > :47:42.Party. Whether it is minimum pricing of alcohol, the removal of
:47:43. > :47:49.corroboration, if the SNP government say yes, they will say no. It would
:47:50. > :47:53.be shameful were not so tragic. If we look at the statistics
:47:54. > :48:00.bulletin of recorded crime in Scotland from 2009-2012, an average
:48:01. > :48:12.of 7000 sexual offences recorded, a clean-up rate of 66%. In England,
:48:13. > :48:16.same period, 54,000 sexual offences, just 30% cleared up. They do not
:48:17. > :48:23.have corroboration yet the rate seems much worse. We have an
:48:24. > :48:27.outstanding police service, south of the border there are real
:48:28. > :48:29.difficulties. They are losing officers because they are not
:48:30. > :48:36.implementing the changes we're making in terms of single service.
:48:37. > :48:41.In terms of crime rates, sexual offences is one of the few areas
:48:42. > :48:46.where the rate is increasing. It is because of public awareness and
:48:47. > :48:50.because police and prosecutors deal with things much better, understand
:48:51. > :48:56.the victims needs and the need to treat them with dignity and respect.
:48:57. > :49:02.Can you give any guarantee that if you get your way there will be more
:49:03. > :49:08.prosecutions? I cannot give any guarantee because that is ultimately
:49:09. > :49:12.for the court. This is about access to justice. It was put to me by a
:49:13. > :49:18.victim who was groomed and had to live with the long-term consequences
:49:19. > :49:23.of being abused. She said that this was about her having access to
:49:24. > :49:28.justice. She wanted to look the perpetrator in the eye and say, you
:49:29. > :49:34.did this to me. She recognises that there is the possibility a court
:49:35. > :49:40.will not believe. But we cannot enforce convictions. But what we can
:49:41. > :49:43.guarantee is access to justice. But how do you deal with the thousands
:49:44. > :49:51.of extra cases brought about when they are already under strain? It
:49:52. > :49:54.has been made quite clear that the Crown has increased legal officials
:49:55. > :50:03.since 2007 despite a degree is in cases. They recognise that it would
:50:04. > :50:08.be challenging. -- decrease. We are prepared to rise to that challenge
:50:09. > :50:15.is a government. Will you put in more cash? I am not prepared to say
:50:16. > :50:21.to a victim of rape, a child who is abused, to say, that is just tough.
:50:22. > :50:29.You are a victim of crime where there is no access to justice. We
:50:30. > :50:34.will not cash limit it. We will guarantee people have access to
:50:35. > :50:38.justice. Can I guarantee convictions? No. That is for the
:50:39. > :50:49.jury and presiding judge. But we must give the access to justice to
:50:50. > :50:53.those who are denied it. This is not the only area that is controversial
:50:54. > :51:00.with people in Scotland's former times more likely to be stopped and
:51:01. > :51:06.searched. A lot of these, they take place with youngsters with alcohol.
:51:07. > :51:10.Knives and drugs are protected by T Lott is about alcohol. I have to
:51:11. > :51:15.deal with the parents whose children have suffered and the police
:51:16. > :51:18.officers who have to take young girls into custody on a Friday night
:51:19. > :51:24.because they are drunk and vulnerable. I sometimes actually
:51:25. > :51:32.think the police taking alcohol consensually from those youngsters
:51:33. > :51:39.is a good thing, and many of these stops on youngsters relate to
:51:40. > :51:46.alcohol. In 2010, there was an average of 1888 stop and searches
:51:47. > :51:55.per day but only 20% were positive. That is one in five and I think it
:51:56. > :52:06.is positive. 70% were consensual searches. What we are seeing is that
:52:07. > :52:14.Scotland is a safer place. We have seen a reduction of 60% in knife
:52:15. > :52:20.crime since we came into office. What we are saying about alcohol,
:52:21. > :52:23.taking them away from youngsters, they can get into difficulties
:52:24. > :52:26.because young girls are vulnerable and young guys can do stupid things
:52:27. > :52:32.with alcohol. This is about prevention, not just prosecution.
:52:33. > :52:39.When you look at the statistics for children, in the same period
:52:40. > :52:49.children under 14 were searched 26,000 times. Are you comfortable
:52:50. > :52:52.with those statistics? I met with children in Scotland than they were
:52:53. > :52:56.perfectly comfortable because they could understand that a lot of the
:52:57. > :53:05.offences perpetrated by children are not against people you rage or my
:53:06. > :53:10.age but against other youngsters. In terms of older youngsters, it can be
:53:11. > :53:16.to do with drugs and weapons, and children do try to access alcohol
:53:17. > :53:19.and take it and problems come about. What sort of relationship will they
:53:20. > :53:23.have with the police when they are older? I think they have a good
:53:24. > :53:32.relationship and I have always been impressed, but youngsters recognise
:53:33. > :53:35.the good job police do. The majority of stop and searches carried out
:53:36. > :53:42.with the consent of the individual and for good reason on the basis of
:53:43. > :53:47.intelligence. The police are polite and carry it out with dignity and we
:53:48. > :53:52.know it makes Scotland a safer place. I was at an event in Fife and
:53:53. > :53:58.had to meet with the family of a young man who had been stabbed. They
:53:59. > :54:02.take the view that a slight and convenience for a young man is much
:54:03. > :54:06.better than a lifetime's tragedy for the family.
:54:07. > :54:10.A poll carried out for the BBC suggests the economy is the issue
:54:11. > :54:13.that matters most to voters taking part in the referendum. So perhaps
:54:14. > :54:16.it's no surprise to find interest in which side businesses are backing.
:54:17. > :54:19.It was a subject Johann Lamont returned to again and again at this
:54:20. > :54:23.week's First Minister's Questions, after the man at the helm of oil
:54:24. > :54:33.giant BP weighed in with his personal view on the issue.
:54:34. > :54:39.There is much debate about the currency. There are big
:54:40. > :54:52.uncertainties for us and at the moment we are continuing to invest,
:54:53. > :54:58.but the Ed Vaizey? -- but there is a question. Great Britain is great and
:54:59. > :55:05.it ought to stay together. In response, the first Minister told
:55:06. > :55:09.BBC Scotland that, and I quote, of course there are many chief
:55:10. > :55:14.executives who are firmly in favour of Scottish independence. Could be
:55:15. > :55:18.first Minister no name the many chief executives of oil companies
:55:19. > :55:28.that are in favour of Scottish independence? There are hundreds of
:55:29. > :55:31.people in business for Scotland. Scottish business is arguing for
:55:32. > :55:39.wealthier than benefit to the people of Scotland from independence, but I
:55:40. > :55:44.thought the most important thing that Bob Dudley said, was that the
:55:45. > :55:50.investment plans for BP would be continuing. With supermarket bosses
:55:51. > :56:00.weighing and is well it has become tip for tat over who has more
:56:01. > :56:03.friends in the business community. They think any party is endorsing
:56:04. > :56:11.their possession is a good thing because they think people will trust
:56:12. > :56:17.and impartial figure such as a businessman or an academic. Whether
:56:18. > :56:26.that works is obviously a moot point. It depends who's listening.
:56:27. > :56:30.If another Scottish businessman was listening, they could take them more
:56:31. > :56:38.seriously than someone on the dole in a housing scheme. With each
:56:39. > :56:45.campaign listening, you can expect small companies as well as giants to
:56:46. > :56:52.take sides. I can see why when you're a large multinational and
:56:53. > :56:55.taking business decisions, you might think a particular way, but at the
:56:56. > :57:02.same time that is not how most of our members take decisions. We work
:57:03. > :57:14.on a much more pragmatic level, so I am not sure people will be making a
:57:15. > :57:20.direct comparison. In the seven months to go until the referendum,
:57:21. > :57:23.we may see more business people showing their political colours but
:57:24. > :57:26.how will that influence the result? Joining me from Newcastle is Ivan
:57:27. > :57:29.McKee who is a board member for Business for Scotland and in
:57:30. > :57:33.Edinburgh is Ian McKay, who is chair of the Institute of Directors which
:57:34. > :57:41.we should point out is nonpartisan with regard to the referendum. When
:57:42. > :57:48.someone like Bob Dudley gives us our personal view, doesn't sway voters?
:57:49. > :57:52.People getting a lot of credit to what businesses said. Most people
:57:53. > :57:58.would expect businesses to take a good look at the situation so I
:57:59. > :58:07.would understand that people would put some weight on what business is
:58:08. > :58:10.seeing. He has said that as a personal view and he does not even
:58:11. > :58:16.have a vote so does that invalidate what he said? Anyone is entitled to
:58:17. > :58:24.his view and he made it clear it was his personal view. They stated just
:58:25. > :58:29.this week they see Aberdeen as the centre of the oil operation in the
:58:30. > :58:34.UK beyond 2050. At the end of the day, the oil is in the North Sea and
:58:35. > :58:43.that is where oil companies will operate. How important is the
:58:44. > :58:48.endorsement of business given that you are an organisation trying to
:58:49. > :58:53.get business people together? It adds value and that the end of the
:58:54. > :59:00.day everybody only has one vote but in previous referendum campaigns,
:59:01. > :59:11.the business vote was largely on the normal site. -- no side. As
:59:12. > :59:16.businesses look at the economic case and the opportunities Scotland opens
:59:17. > :59:22.up, many more are coming to recognise the value of that and the
:59:23. > :59:27.opportunity for business. Would you encourage more business leaders to
:59:28. > :59:33.speak out? Edward encourage politicians to declare their hand a
:59:34. > :59:36.bit more. I am reminded of Bill Clinton's slogan in 1992 when he
:59:37. > :59:41.talked about change or more of the same. His organisation has declared
:59:42. > :59:46.that centrist and would probably agree with that slogan, but I tend
:59:47. > :59:55.to remember the other slogan which was the economy, stupid. It is not
:59:56. > :59:58.good enough for us simply to say everything will be the same and it
:59:59. > :00:05.does not really matter whether people have doubts, and that in fact
:00:06. > :00:11.Alex Salmond is right and it is the -- the investment that matters, one
:00:12. > :00:17.should begin to come concerned if those people in charge are starting
:00:18. > :00:23.to question matters like currency, increasing investment and so on.
:00:24. > :00:28.That has to be of concern. When a lot people start seeing it, the main
:00:29. > :00:34.thing we should be looking at his answers from the politicians trying
:00:35. > :00:41.to win votes. A Scottish -based company employing 3500 people around
:00:42. > :00:44.the world. He spoke about uncertainty over currency, trade and
:00:45. > :00:51.tax which could involve running the business from someone else. Do you
:00:52. > :00:54.welcome that kind of intervention? I welcome everybody taking part in the
:00:55. > :00:59.debates because the more people that are, we are the facts of the
:01:00. > :01:04.strength of the Scottish economy and the fact we generate more tax than
:01:05. > :01:08.the rest of the UK and higher GDP, the more people become aware of
:01:09. > :01:13.that, the more likely they are to support a yes vote in September.
:01:14. > :01:22.Alex Salmond has made his position clear in the past. That is his view
:01:23. > :01:28.and as I said, we have 1300 members and growing that have taken the
:01:29. > :01:32.opposite view. In terms of uncertainty, business looks at risk
:01:33. > :01:37.and uncertainty and looks at what makes more sense for it. Our members
:01:38. > :01:45.have come to the conclusion that the opportunity Scotland offers
:01:46. > :01:48.outweighs the negatives. Business leaders are asked to assess risk.
:01:49. > :01:54.Could the same be true for the points made of politicians on the
:01:55. > :02:04.Better Together said, that they need to spell out potential tax changes
:02:05. > :02:08.if there is a no vote. When you're doing this kind of analysis, you
:02:09. > :02:17.have to remember the weaknesses as well as the strengths. I personally
:02:18. > :02:22.understand his position, he has 1300 people employed in businesses who
:02:23. > :02:25.think it is best to have a yes vote, but the position of many businesses
:02:26. > :02:32.as we do not want to be leading this campaign. Are you afraid to speak
:02:33. > :02:35.out? I do not think we are afraid but we need to see the kind of
:02:36. > :02:39.questions we are asking is what would be good for business and for
:02:40. > :02:48.the Scottish economy whoever wins this referendum? Let me give you one
:02:49. > :02:54.example on the subject of mail. When you look at the White Paper, you
:02:55. > :02:58.have a position where we are told the Royal Mail will be the
:02:59. > :03:04.privatised and so on. I asked the question in the past, how do you do
:03:05. > :03:10.that? How do you the privatised company that is working on the stock
:03:11. > :03:13.exchange and how much will it cost to run a mail service in Scotland
:03:14. > :03:24.that the same level or better than it currently is getting the Scottish
:03:25. > :03:29.geography. -- given. Just tell us what it is we are voting for and
:03:30. > :03:32.what it would cost. That is a basic of any business, they want to know
:03:33. > :03:41.the numbers and how these things back up. -- stack up. If you look at
:03:42. > :03:46.the White Paper there is a section which looks at how the balance sheet
:03:47. > :03:50.would look in the first year of independence based on current
:03:51. > :03:59.numbers and projections, and that is more detail than you will get from
:04:00. > :04:11.any of the UK parties. That is the way it works and there is a cost
:04:12. > :04:19.that section in the White Paper. -- costed. That is my point. Yes, there
:04:20. > :04:25.are numbers but they are also assertions which are uncosted and
:04:26. > :04:29.could cost us a lot of money. I ask that we start to see just how much
:04:30. > :04:36.the assertions on both sides will actually cost us. That would be
:04:37. > :04:42.great but even in the UK context you do not have any information for the
:04:43. > :04:46.parties for 2015 manifestoes, and in terms of the currency it is clear to
:04:47. > :04:51.everyone in Scotland will continue to use the pound after independence,
:04:52. > :04:56.but it is down to the UK government at this time to sit down and at the
:04:57. > :05:01.end of the day it is them that have refused to negotiate to give clarity
:05:02. > :05:04.on some of these issues. They want the uncertainty in the debate but
:05:05. > :05:08.the voters of Scotland deserve better than that adds to have more
:05:09. > :05:11.clarity. Thank you both very much. You're
:05:12. > :05:13.watching Sunday Politics Scotland. Let's cross now for the news from
:05:14. > :05:34.Reporting Scotland with Andrew Kerr. Good afternoon. A new, privately-run
:05:35. > :05:38.body to get people on long-term sick leave back to work is being set up.
:05:39. > :05:41.It will operate in Scotland, England and Wales. Up to 95,000 people in
:05:42. > :05:45.Scotland are on sick leave for longer than a month each year. The
:05:46. > :05:48.UK government hopes it will save employers ?70 million a year by
:05:49. > :05:50.offering medical advice and re-training.
:05:51. > :06:01.A rugby fan has died in hospital after falling ill during Scotland's
:06:02. > :06:05.match against England. The 60-year-old man was watching with
:06:06. > :06:08.friends when he was taken ill around 15 minutes into the RBS six Nations
:06:09. > :06:11.clash at Murrayfield. He died a short time later at Edinburgh Royal
:06:12. > :06:15.Infirmary. It's the economy that matters most to people voting in the
:06:16. > :06:18.independence referendum, a new poll by the BBC has suggested. More than
:06:19. > :06:22.1,000 people aged 16 and over were asked which issues from a list of
:06:23. > :06:25.ten mattered most to them. Pensions came second, with welfare third. The
:06:26. > :06:28.results will feature in the programme Scotland's Top Ten battle
:06:29. > :06:33.grounds to be shown on BBC Two on Tuesday.
:06:34. > :06:36.Now let's get the weather. We can see that showers are most
:06:37. > :06:46.frequent to the central belt and Southern up once. It will be breezy,
:06:47. > :06:49.temperatures around seven Celsius will stop this evening and
:06:50. > :06:53.overnight, we hold onto the wind, but it will ease a touch. Showers
:06:54. > :07:05.remain frequent. That's it. Back to Gary.
:07:06. > :07:09.Thank you very much. Let's look at what might feature in the week to
:07:10. > :07:18.come. I am joined by the former Guardian
:07:19. > :07:20.correspondent and freelance journalist, Kirsty Scott, and the
:07:21. > :07:28.Herald's political editor, Magnus Gardham. Let's start with David
:07:29. > :07:37.Cameron's speech. Alex Salmond writes in the Herald today. He calls
:07:38. > :07:43.it a big mistake. Was it? He had every right to make the
:07:44. > :07:47.speech. It was a bit much for Alex Salmond to describe it as using
:07:48. > :07:59.sport as a political tool. Remember Wimbledon? Unfurling the sole tyre.
:08:00. > :08:02.There was no way that David Cameron could have presented that that would
:08:03. > :08:14.suit Alex Salmond. But he had a right. But was it a mistake to
:08:15. > :08:18.deliver it in London? The admirers of the Prime Minister
:08:19. > :08:30.admired the speech, the problem of course is that he doesn't have many
:08:31. > :08:39.in Scotland. The idea is not a bad when from a campaign accused of
:08:40. > :08:46.being negative. But is London the best place to deliver it? Possibly
:08:47. > :08:54.not. It will be interesting to see it we hear that message from
:08:55. > :08:59.elsewhere in England. Interesting, from another perspective, Andrew
:09:00. > :09:07.Rodley says that there is not enough. He said that the Scots want
:09:08. > :09:13.to be told they are loved. Is there a realisation that things are too
:09:14. > :09:20.negative from the Unionist side? Possibly. But in terms of what is
:09:21. > :09:25.important to voters, the economy is high up, the relationship with the
:09:26. > :09:29.rest of the UK is low-down. That was quite surprisingly. I think David
:09:30. > :09:36.Cameron but have ranked and are feeling stronger about that. --
:09:37. > :09:44.would have an add-on -- would have banked on. But I think he and his
:09:45. > :09:49.advisers understand that he is on a hiding to nothing. He could have
:09:50. > :09:55.made the speech in Stornoway and would have got brickbats. But we
:09:56. > :10:03.need to see something more positive from the No campaign.
:10:04. > :10:08.A question is whether there will be more demolition for Scotland in the
:10:09. > :10:15.event of a No vote. A piece in the Scotland on Sunday asks, where now
:10:16. > :10:17.for the Labour Party? There is talk in a previous commitment for
:10:18. > :10:25.tax-raising powers to be reined back.
:10:26. > :10:31.It is a real issue for Labour. There are differences of opinion on this.
:10:32. > :10:36.It will be very difficult for them to manage this. And to get into a
:10:37. > :10:42.place where they can say convincingly to voters, further
:10:43. > :10:51.devolution will be on offer if you vote no. Is Johann Lamont the woman
:10:52. > :10:58.to bring the Labour Party together? She has to be. But to change it now
:10:59. > :11:01.would be a disaster for them. We need to see a greater sense of
:11:02. > :11:07.cohesion and purpose on the No campaign. Criticism of the Yes
:11:08. > :11:13.campaign is that they do not have clarity. But people are now saying,
:11:14. > :11:20.persuade us, what with things look like if we vote no? It is
:11:21. > :11:24.interesting that you have the Liberal Democrats making a concerted
:11:25. > :11:30.effort to get on the same page as the Liberal Democrats and
:11:31. > :11:37.conservatives. But the Labour Party are not even on their own same page.
:11:38. > :11:46.Alex Salmond will say, if you vote no, there is no change. And surveys
:11:47. > :11:57.suggest that a beefed up Holyrood with the then more popular outcome
:11:58. > :11:59.than the status quo. -- would be a. A BBC Scotland poll indicates that
:12:00. > :12:06.Scots believe the economy matters most. No great surprise. We have
:12:07. > :12:16.known for a long time people feel this way. It has been a good lesson.
:12:17. > :12:21.We have been talking about the currency and possible monetary
:12:22. > :12:32.union. The people on the street are saying, we need to know exactly what
:12:33. > :12:39.will happen. And this ?500 figure, better or worse off, that could sway
:12:40. > :12:45.undecided. I am not surprised that the economy has emerged as the key
:12:46. > :12:51.issue. But when you get into the specifics, looking at the currency,
:12:52. > :12:57.closely linked to the economy, issues like the European Union,
:12:58. > :13:04.pensions, welfare, a bit lower down. The political rows, the stories that
:13:05. > :13:13.have dominated, currency union, EU membership, they are not at the top
:13:14. > :13:20.of peoples priorities. Maybe a lesson for politicians and the
:13:21. > :13:25.media. Absolutely. This poll is helpful because we pick up on issues
:13:26. > :13:32.which we think are important. Now we can understand what people actually
:13:33. > :13:39.want to hear about. Are there difficulties on the economy for
:13:40. > :13:46.either side? It is clearly a sign that the first Mr must do more. --
:13:47. > :13:50.first Minister. That's all from us this week. I'll be back at the same
:13:51. > :13:56.time next week. Until then, goodbye.