:00:35. > :00:40.Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Fears that Ukraine
:00:41. > :00:43.could face invasion escalate this morning as Russian forces take
:00:44. > :00:46.control of Crimea. President Obama and his European allies tell
:00:47. > :00:52.President Putin to back off. It doesn't sound like he's listening.
:00:53. > :00:55.Shadow Education Secretary Tristram Hunt has started spelling out
:00:56. > :01:00.Labour's plans for schools. So what's the verdict - full marks, or
:01:01. > :01:06.must try harder? He joins us for the Sunday Interview. And all the big
:01:07. > :01:09.political parties are desperate to broaden their appeal. We'll look at
:01:10. > :01:12.some unusual ideas for freshening up those tired old party logos.
:01:13. > :01:18.And coming up on Sunday Politics Scotland: As the new interactive
:01:19. > :01:21.visitor centre at Bannockburn opens its doors, we ask whether concerns
:01:22. > :01:46.over the commemoration event are justified.
:01:47. > :01:49.Nick Watt, Helen Lewis and Janan Ganesh. Instead of acceptance
:01:50. > :01:53.speeches they'll be tweeting faster than the tears roll down Gwyneth
:01:54. > :01:58.Paltrow's face. Yes, that's as luvvie as we get on this show.
:01:59. > :02:02.Events have been moving quickly in Ukraine this weekend. The interim
:02:03. > :02:04.government in Kiev has put the Ukrainian military on full combat
:02:05. > :02:10.alert after Russia's parliament rubber-stamped the deployment of
:02:11. > :02:12.Russian troops anywhere in Ukraine. Russian troops seem already to be in
:02:13. > :02:15.control of the mainly Russian-speaking Crimea region,
:02:16. > :02:19.where Russia has a massive naval base. President Obama told President
:02:20. > :02:21.Putin that Russia has flouted international law by sending in
:02:22. > :02:28.Russian troops but the Kremlin is taking no notice. This is now
:02:29. > :02:31.turning into the worst stand-off between Russia and the West since
:02:32. > :02:34.the conflict between Georgia and Russia in 2008, though nobody
:02:35. > :02:41.expects any kind of military response from the West. Foreign
:02:42. > :02:43.Secretary William Hague is on his way to Kiev this morning to show his
:02:44. > :02:47.support for the new government, though how long it will survive is
:02:48. > :02:54.another matter. We can speak to our correspondent David Stern, he's in
:02:55. > :03:00.Kiev. As things look from Kiev, can we
:03:01. > :03:08.take it they've lost Crimea, it is now in all essence under Russian
:03:09. > :03:12.control? Yes, well for the moment, Crimea is under Russian control.
:03:13. > :03:20.Russian troops in unmarked uniforms have moved throughout the peninsula
:03:21. > :03:27.taking up various positions, also at the Ismis which links Ukraine into
:03:28. > :03:31.Crimea. They've surrounded Ukrainon troops there. Three units have been
:03:32. > :03:36.captured according to a top officials. We can say at the moment
:03:37. > :03:41.Russia controls the peninsula. It should also be said, also they have
:03:42. > :03:45.the support of the ethnic Russian population. The ethnic Russians make
:03:46. > :03:50.up the majority of the population. They are also not entirely in
:03:51. > :03:57.control because there are other groups, namely the Tatar as and the
:03:58. > :04:03.ethnic Ukrainian speakers who are at least at the moment tacitly
:04:04. > :04:09.resisting. We'll see what they'll start to do in the coming days.
:04:10. > :04:15.David, I'm putting up some pictures showing Russian troops digging in on
:04:16. > :04:19.the border between Crimea and Ukraine. I get the sense that is
:04:20. > :04:26.just for show. There is, I would assume, no possibility that the
:04:27. > :04:31.Ukrainians could attempt to retake Crimea by military force? It seems
:04:32. > :04:37.that the Ukrainians are weighing their options right now. Their
:04:38. > :04:40.options are very limited. Any head-to-head conflict with Russia
:04:41. > :04:45.would probably work against the Ukrainians. They seem to be taking
:04:46. > :04:50.more of a long-term gain. They are waiting for the figs's first move.
:04:51. > :04:56.They are trying not to create any excuse that the Russians can stage
:04:57. > :05:00.an even larger incursion into Crimea or elsewhere, for that matter. They
:05:01. > :05:04.also seem to be trying to get international support. It should be
:05:05. > :05:07.said, this is a new Government. It has only been installed this week.
:05:08. > :05:13.They are trying to gain their footing. This is a major crisis.
:05:14. > :05:17.They have to count on the loyalty of the army they might have some
:05:18. > :05:21.resistance from solders from the eastern part of the country who are
:05:22. > :05:25.Russian speaking. They probably could count on Ukrainian speakers
:05:26. > :05:30.and people from the centre and west of the country as well as regular
:05:31. > :05:36.Ukrainians. A lot of people are ready to fight to defend Ukrainian
:05:37. > :05:43.Terre Tory. Where does the Kremlin go next? They have Crimea to all
:05:44. > :05:47.intents and purposes. There's a weak Government in Kiev. Do they move to
:05:48. > :05:52.the eastern side of Ukraine which is largely Russian speaking and there's
:05:53. > :05:55.already been some unrest there? That's the big question, that's what
:05:56. > :05:59.everybody's really asking now. Where does this go from here? We've had
:06:00. > :06:04.some unrest in the eastern part of the country. There have been
:06:05. > :06:10.demonstrations and clashes. More ominously, there have been noises
:06:11. > :06:16.from the Kremlin they might actually move into eastern Ukraine. Putin in
:06:17. > :06:20.his conversation with Barack Obama said they might protect their
:06:21. > :06:25.interests there. It should be said, if they do expand, in fact, they've
:06:26. > :06:32.also said they are dead against the new Government seeing it as
:06:33. > :06:37.illegitimate and fascist. It does contain risks. They will have to
:06:38. > :06:42.deal with international reactions. America said there will be a deep
:06:43. > :06:45.reaction to this and it will affect Russia's relations with Ukraine and
:06:46. > :06:51.the international community. They have to deal with the reaction in
:06:52. > :06:56.Ukraine. This may unite Ukrainians behind this new interim Government.
:06:57. > :07:04.Once Russia moves in, they will be seen as an invading force. It plays
:07:05. > :07:11.on historical feelings of Russia being an imperial force.
:07:12. > :07:15.Joining me is MP Mark Field who sits on the security Security and
:07:16. > :07:20.Intelligence Committee in the House of Commons. What should the western
:07:21. > :07:26.response be to these events? I can understand why William Hague is
:07:27. > :07:34.going to Kiev tomorrow to stand side by side whizz whoever's in charge.
:07:35. > :07:43.They need to CEOP sit numbers and also President Putin. The truth is
:07:44. > :07:49.we are all co significant fatries to the Budapest Memorandum of almost 20
:07:50. > :07:54.years ago which was designed to maintain the integrity of the
:07:55. > :07:58.Ukraine and Crimea. There needs to be a discussion along those lines.
:07:59. > :08:06.The difficulty is President Putin has watched events in recent months,
:08:07. > :08:12.in relation to Syria, it is palpable President Obama's focus of attention
:08:13. > :08:15.ask the other side of the Pacific rather than the Atlantic. The vote
:08:16. > :08:20.in the House of Commons, I was very much against the idea of military
:08:21. > :08:24.action or providing weapons to the free Syrian army. My worry is,
:08:25. > :08:31.events proved this, the majority of the other options toed as sad are
:08:32. > :08:36.rather worse. It is clear now we are in a constitutional mess in this
:08:37. > :08:39.country. We cannot even contemplate military action without a
:08:40. > :08:44.parliamentary vote that moves against quick reaction that is
:08:45. > :08:48.required from the executive or, I suspect, there will be very little
:08:49. > :08:56.appetite for any military action from the West over in Ukraine. We
:08:57. > :09:01.are corn tours under the agreement of less than 20 years ago. We may be
:09:02. > :09:04.but we've guaranteed an agreement which it is clear we haven't the
:09:05. > :09:10.power to enforce. You wrote this morning, Britain is a diminished
:09:11. > :09:15.voice. Clams Iley navigating the Syrian conflict we relick wished
:09:16. > :09:21.decisions to the whims of parliamentary approval. That may or
:09:22. > :09:28.may not be but the Kremlin's not watching how we voted on the Syrian
:09:29. > :09:34.issue? In relation to Syria, it was where is the western resolve here.
:09:35. > :09:38.The truth ask Putin's position is considerably less strong. In
:09:39. > :09:44.diplomatic terms. He had a victory in Syria in relation to chemical
:09:45. > :09:51.weapons and in relation to the West's relationship with Iran. Putin
:09:52. > :09:56.is a vital inter locking figure. In demographic and economic terms,
:09:57. > :10:01.Russia's in very deep trouble. The oil price started to fall to any
:10:02. > :10:06.degree, oil and gas price, given the importance of mineral wealth and
:10:07. > :10:13.exports for the Russian economy, Putin would be in a lot of trouble.
:10:14. > :10:17.It requires an engagement from the EU and the EU are intending to look
:10:18. > :10:22.at their internal economic problems and will be smarting from the
:10:23. > :10:26.failure within a matter of hours of the deal they tried to broker only
:10:27. > :10:30.nine days' ago. You say if Mr Putin decides to
:10:31. > :10:34.increase the stakes and moves into the east, takes over the whole
:10:35. > :10:40.place, our Government, you say, will find itself with another colossal
:10:41. > :10:44.international headache. Some people watching this will be thinking,
:10:45. > :10:50.what's it got to do with us? It's a long way away from Britain. We
:10:51. > :10:55.haven't a dog in this fight? We have in this regard for the longer term
:10:56. > :10:59.here. I think if there were to be some military action in Ukraine, the
:11:00. > :11:04.sense of Russia taking over, it could have a major impact on the
:11:05. > :11:09.global economy in very quick order. You should not deny that. There will
:11:10. > :11:13.be move to have sanctions against Russia. The escalation of that will
:11:14. > :11:21.be difficult. The other fact is looking at our internal affairs and
:11:22. > :11:27.reform, partners, the Baltic states, Finland, Poland, the Czech Republic,
:11:28. > :11:33.they will be looking at a resurgent Russia now and think they'll need to
:11:34. > :11:37.hold as tightly as possible to the EU institutions and the power of
:11:38. > :11:46.Germany at the centre of that. This whole appetite for the reforms
:11:47. > :11:50.politically and economically will be closed very much within a matter of
:11:51. > :11:54.a short period of time. It has longer term implications. Mark
:11:55. > :12:03.Field, thank you. We're joined now by BBC News night's
:12:04. > :12:08.Diplomatic Editor Mark Urban. Is there any prospect of a western
:12:09. > :12:17.military response? Clearly at the moment, it is nil. The boat has
:12:18. > :12:22.sailed with the Crimean. It has been per performed by Russian forces. It
:12:23. > :12:28.is now a matter of coordinating a plate cal line. European foreign
:12:29. > :12:33.ministers tomorrow. To say what will our future limits be? Where could we
:12:34. > :12:38.possibly draw red lines? To try to think a couple of steps down this,
:12:39. > :12:43.what happens if Russia interrupts energy supplies to EU member states
:12:44. > :12:46.ornate owe countries? These are the important steps they have to think
:12:47. > :12:52.about. It is quite clear we are in a different world here now. Also,
:12:53. > :12:56.Ukraine is facing a urgent foreign exchange crisis. Within literally a
:12:57. > :13:00.few weeks they could run out of money. All of these are rushing
:13:01. > :13:07.towards decision makers very fast. There is an interim and I suggestion
:13:08. > :13:11.unstable Government in Kiev. Crimea semi-to be under Russian control.
:13:12. > :13:14.There are clashes between the reformers and Russian nationals in
:13:15. > :13:19.the east of the country. What does Mr Putin do next? He has lots of
:13:20. > :13:23.options, of course. He has this carte blanch carte blanch from his
:13:24. > :13:30.Parliament to go in to the rest of Ukraine if he wants to. His military
:13:31. > :13:35.deployment suggests the one bite at a time, just Crimea to start with.
:13:36. > :13:39.See what response comes from the Ukrainian Government. Of course, so
:13:40. > :13:44.far, there hasn't been a coherent response. The really worrying thing
:13:45. > :13:49.about recent months, not just recent days, are the indications that the
:13:50. > :13:57.future of Ukraine as a unitary state is now in doubt. Look at it from the
:13:58. > :14:02.other side of the equation. The President when faced with
:14:03. > :14:06.demonstrations, many extremists, he was unable to deal with that. Now we
:14:07. > :14:11.have the other side, if you like, the Russian speakers, the other side
:14:12. > :14:16.of the fight, Russian nationalists showing they can get away with
:14:17. > :14:25.unilateral action more or less with impunity. The Ukrainian chiefs have
:14:26. > :14:29.been sacked. I think there are considerable questions now as to
:14:30. > :14:35.whether Ukraine is falling apart and, if that happens, we're into a
:14:36. > :14:40.Yugoslav-type situation which will continue posing very serious
:14:41. > :14:48.questions for the EU and NATO for months or years to come. So, Janan,
:14:49. > :14:53.Ukraine is over? Where the west to concede to the Russian in Crimea, it
:14:54. > :15:01.would perversely be a net loss for Russia. You'd assume the rest of
:15:02. > :15:07.Ukraine would become an un unambiguously a member of the the
:15:08. > :15:14.EU, maybe NATO. On top of that a Russian dream of Eurasion dream,
:15:15. > :15:19.they will look at Putin's behaviour and is a, no, thanks, we'll head
:15:20. > :15:32.towards the EU. It is a short-term victory for Putin which backfires on
:15:33. > :15:39.his broader goals in Well, many people said if he grabs Crimea, he
:15:40. > :15:43.loses Ukraine, which is your point. We have seen violent demonstrations
:15:44. > :15:48.in the big eastern cities in Ukraine yesterday. People taking control of
:15:49. > :15:54.certain buildings. The risk is there of spreading beyond Crimea. I think
:15:55. > :15:56.the lack of any unified or visible response from Ukrainian armed
:15:57. > :16:01.forces... They allowed Russian troops to walk into the bases in
:16:02. > :16:05.Crimea. They have supposedly gone on red alert but they have done
:16:06. > :16:08.absolutely nothing. We don't see them deploying from barracks. There
:16:09. > :16:16.are serious questions about whether they would just fall apart. Putin is
:16:17. > :16:21.not going to let them split away. I would have thought he would like the
:16:22. > :16:27.entire Ukraine to come into the Russian ambit. Barack Obama is
:16:28. > :16:32.saying this will not stand. He has a 90 minute conversation with Vladimir
:16:33. > :16:36.Putin and what is his response? I am suspending my cooperation in the
:16:37. > :16:42.run-up to the Sochi Summit. What is the EU doing? Nothing. There is
:16:43. > :16:46.nothing they can do and Putin knows there are a series of lines that he
:16:47. > :16:54.is able to cross and get away with it. Why should Berlin, London,
:16:55. > :16:58.Washington be surprised by the strength of Vladimir Putin's
:16:59. > :17:02.reaction? It was never going to let Ukraine just fall into the arms of
:17:03. > :17:07.the EU. That is the interesting point. And who does he listen to?
:17:08. > :17:10.Paddy Ashdown was saying sent Angela Merkel because she is the only
:17:11. > :17:14.person who can talk to him and I find that response worrying. We need
:17:15. > :17:19.to speak with a united voice but nobody knows what we should be
:17:20. > :17:23.saying. Military intervention is out for the West so we go to economic
:17:24. > :17:30.sanctions. Doesn't Vladimir Putin just say, oh, you want sanctions? I
:17:31. > :17:34.have turned off the gas tap. Yes, it is move and countermove, and it is
:17:35. > :17:39.difficult to predict where it will end up. In all these meetings that
:17:40. > :18:13.are being held, they do think a step or two ahead and try and set out
:18:14. > :18:14.clear lines. Thank you for coming in this morning.
:18:15. > :18:16.Labour has been struggling since 2010 to decide exactly how to take
:18:17. > :18:19.education secretary Michael Gove, one of the boldest reformers of the
:18:20. > :18:21.coalition and most divisive figures. Ed Miliband appointed TV historian
:18:22. > :18:24.Tristram Hunt and many thought Labour had found the man to teach
:18:25. > :18:26.Michael Gove a lesson. But how much do we really know about the party's
:18:27. > :18:28.plans for England's schools? Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are a
:18:29. > :18:31.devolved matter. Child has been back to school to find out. A politician
:18:32. > :18:33.once told me, do you know why education secretaries changed
:18:34. > :18:36.schools? Because they can. Michael Gove might dispute the motive but he
:18:37. > :18:38.is changing schools, like this one. The changes he is ringing in our
:18:39. > :18:40.encouraging them to be academies, free from local authorities to
:18:41. > :18:42.control their own budgets, ushering in free schools, focusing on
:18:43. > :18:44.toughening exams and making them the core of the curriculum with less
:18:45. > :18:50.coursework, and offering heads more discretion on tougher discipline.
:18:51. > :18:54.And he is in a hurry to put all this in place. But has that shut out any
:18:55. > :18:59.chance for a Labour Government to change it all themselves and do they
:19:00. > :19:05.really want to? Any questions? Visiting a different school, first
:19:06. > :19:08.in line to get a crack at that would-be Labour's third shadow
:19:09. > :19:13.education secretary since 2010, Tristram Hunt. In post, he has not
:19:14. > :19:16.been taken about fine tuning previous direct opposition to free
:19:17. > :19:20.schools and he has also suggested teachers in England would have to be
:19:21. > :19:23.licensed under a Labour Government, allowing the worst to be sacked and
:19:24. > :19:28.offering training and development to others and of course ending
:19:29. > :19:32.coalition plans to allow unqualified teachers into classrooms. Full
:19:33. > :19:43.policy detail is still unmarked work. Your opinion about evolution?
:19:44. > :19:48.What is very clear is that Labour's education policy is still evolving.
:19:49. > :19:53.We are learning that they have some clear water, but we also seem, from
:19:54. > :19:56.the sting at the back, to get the feeling that there is not a great
:19:57. > :20:01.deal of difference from them and the current Government on types of
:20:02. > :20:07.schools and the way education should proceed. -- from listening at the
:20:08. > :20:12.back. So what exactly is different about their policy? What Tristram
:20:13. > :20:16.Hunt's job is to do is to be open and honest about the shared agenda
:20:17. > :20:20.between us and the Tories. There are a lot of areas where there is clear
:20:21. > :20:25.water between us and Tristram Hunt as to turn his back, shared agenda,
:20:26. > :20:31.stop fighting it, and forge our agenda, which I think people will be
:20:32. > :20:36.really interested in. The art of Government, of course, is to balance
:20:37. > :20:40.competing pictures of policy, even inside your own party. It is fair to
:20:41. > :20:44.say that if Labour reflects and draws its own visions of a shared
:20:45. > :20:47.agenda, it might have to square that idea with teaching unions, who are
:20:48. > :20:53.already unhappy with the pace and tone of change that the Government
:20:54. > :20:57.had sketched out. What we sincerely hope is that if Labour were to form
:20:58. > :21:20.the next Government, that they would look at a serious review of
:21:21. > :21:23.accountability measures. That is really what ways on teachers every
:21:24. > :21:25.single day. Actually they would look at restoring the possibility, for
:21:26. > :21:27.example, of local councillors to be able to open schools. That seems
:21:28. > :21:30.eminently sensible. If they are not going to move back from the free
:21:31. > :21:32.schools and academies programme, at the very least they need to say that
:21:33. > :21:35.academy chains will be inspected because at the moment they are not.
:21:36. > :21:37.Labour have balls in the air on education and are still throwing
:21:38. > :21:40.around precise policy detail. There are areas that they could grab hold
:21:41. > :21:42.of and seize possession. A focus on the rounding of the people,
:21:43. > :21:44.developing character, the impact of digitalisation on the classroom.
:21:45. > :21:47.Also the role and handling of teachers in the system and the
:21:48. > :21:53.interdependence of schools. That is all still to play for. Currently I
:21:54. > :21:56.think the difference between the parties is that the coalition
:21:57. > :22:02.policies, while we do not agree with all of them, are clear and explicit,
:22:03. > :22:08.and Labour's policies are yet to be formulated in a way that everybody
:22:09. > :22:12.can understand clearly. I don't think that Tristram Hunt or Miliband
:22:13. > :22:19.will want to pick unnecessary fights before the election. I think we will
:22:20. > :22:24.have quite a red, pinkish fuzziness around the whole area of policy but
:22:25. > :22:31.after the election there will be grey steel from Tristram Hunt. But
:22:32. > :22:35.if fuzzy policy before the election is the lesson plan, it does rather
:22:36. > :22:39.risk interested voters being left in the dark.
:22:40. > :22:51.Tristram Hunt joins me now for the Sunday interview.
:22:52. > :22:56.Welcome. Thank you. Which of Michael Gove's school reforms would you
:22:57. > :23:00.repeal? We are not interested in throwing a change for the sake of
:23:01. > :23:03.it. When I go round schools, teachers have been through very
:23:04. > :23:06.aggressive changes in the last three years, so when it comes to some of
:23:07. > :23:10.the curriculum reforms we have seen, we are not interested in changing
:23:11. > :23:15.those for the sake of it. Where we are interested in making change is
:23:16. > :23:19.having a focus on technical and vocational education, making sure
:23:20. > :23:24.that the forgotten 15% is properly addressed in our education system.
:23:25. > :23:27.What we saw in your package was an interesting description of how we
:23:28. > :23:32.have seen structural reforms in the names of schools. Academies, free
:23:33. > :23:35.schools, all the rest of it. International evidence is clear that
:23:36. > :23:37.it is the quality of leadership of the headteachers and the quality of
:23:38. > :23:41.teaching in the classroom that transforms the prospects of young
:23:42. > :23:46.people. Instead of tinkering around the names of schools, we focus on
:23:47. > :23:50.teacher quality. Viewers will be shocked to note that this Government
:23:51. > :24:05.approves of unqualified teachers in the classroom. We want to have fully
:24:06. > :24:07.qualified, passionate, motivated teachers in the classroom. It sounds
:24:08. > :24:10.like you might not repeal anything. You might build on it and you might
:24:11. > :24:12.go in a different direction, with more emphasis on technological
:24:13. > :24:15.education but no major repeal of the reforms of Michael Gove? I don't
:24:16. > :24:19.think you want to waste energy on undoing reforms. In certain
:24:20. > :24:25.situations they build on Labour Party policy. We introduced the
:24:26. > :24:28.sponsored academy programmes and we began the Teach First programmes,
:24:29. > :24:34.and we began the London challenge which transformed the educational
:24:35. > :24:39.prospects of children in London. We want to roll that out across the
:24:40. > :24:44.country. You have said there will be no more free schools, which Michael
:24:45. > :24:46.Gove introduced, but you will allow parents let academies, which just
:24:47. > :24:56.means free schools by a different name. No, because they will be in
:24:57. > :25:00.certain areas. We want to create new schools with parents. What we have
:25:01. > :25:04.at the moment is a destructive and market-driven approach to
:25:05. > :25:08.education. I was in Stroud on Thursday and plans for a big new
:25:09. > :25:13.school, in an area with surplus places, threatened to destroy the
:25:14. > :25:17.viability of local, rural schools. We want schools to work together in
:25:18. > :25:20.a network of partnership and challenge, rather than this
:25:21. > :25:46.destructive market-driven approach. You say that, but your version of
:25:47. > :25:49.free schools, I think, would only be allowed where there is a shortage of
:25:50. > :25:52.places. That means that where there is an excess of bad schools, parents
:25:53. > :25:54.will have no choice. They still have to send their kids to bad schools.
:25:55. > :25:57.And we have to transform bad schools and that was always the Labour way
:25:58. > :25:59.in Government. At the moment we just have an insertion of new schools.
:26:00. > :26:01.Schools currently underperforming are now underperforming even more.
:26:02. > :26:04.Children only have one chance at education. What about their time in
:26:05. > :26:06.school? Our focus is on the leadership of the headteacher and
:26:07. > :26:09.having quality teachers in the classroom. So they cannot set up new
:26:10. > :26:11.better schools and they have to go to the bad schools. Tony Blair said
:26:12. > :26:13.it should be easier for parents to set up new schools where they are
:26:14. > :26:17.dissatisfied with existing schools. You are not saying that. Even where
:26:18. > :26:20.they are dissatisfied with existing schools, they cannot set up free
:26:21. > :26:27.schools and you are reneging on that. We live in difficult economic
:26:28. > :26:32.circumstances where we have got to focus public finances on the areas
:26:33. > :26:38.of absolute need. We need 250,000 new school places. 150,000 in London
:26:39. > :26:45.alone. We have to focus on building new schools and where we have to put
:26:46. > :26:50.them. And secondly... Absolutely not. Focusing on those schools.
:26:51. > :26:54.Making sure we turned them around, just as we did in Government. We
:26:55. > :26:58.have had a remarkable degree of waste under the free school
:26:59. > :27:03.programme. If you think of the free school in Derby, the Academy in
:27:04. > :27:07.Bradford, and as we saw in the Telegraph on Friday, the free
:27:08. > :27:10.schools in Suffolk, a great deal of waste of public money on
:27:11. > :27:13.underperforming free schools. That is not the Labour way. We focus on
:27:14. > :27:19.making sure that kids in schools at the moment get the best possible
:27:20. > :27:25.education. Except that in your own backyard, in Stoke, only 34% of
:27:26. > :27:33.secondary school pupils attend a good or outstanding school. 148 out
:27:34. > :27:35.of 150 of the worst performing local authorities and it is
:27:36. > :27:40.Labour-controlled. Still terrible schools and yet you say parents
:27:41. > :27:44.should not have the freedom to start a better school. We have great
:27:45. > :27:46.schools in Stoke-on-Trent as well. We face challenges, just as
:27:47. > :27:51.schools in Stoke-on-Trent as well. Wolverhampton does and the Isle of
:27:52. > :27:56.Wight and Lincolnshire. Just like large parts of the country. What is
:27:57. > :28:00.the solution to that? Making sure we share excellence among the existing
:28:01. > :28:03.schools and making sure we have quality leadership in schools. Those
:28:04. > :28:08.schools in Stoke-on-Trent are all academies. It is not a question only
:28:09. > :28:11.of structure but of leadership. It is also a question of going back to
:28:12. > :28:15.the responsibility of parents to make sure their kids are school
:28:16. > :28:50.ready when they get to school. To make sure they are reading to their
:28:51. > :28:52.children in the evening. We can't put it all on teachers. Parents have
:28:53. > :28:55.responsibilities. I understand that but you have told me Labour's policy
:28:56. > :28:58.would not be to set up new schools which parents hope will be better.
:28:59. > :29:00.Parents continue to send their kids to bad schools in areas like Stoke.
:29:01. > :29:03.Labour has had plenty of time to sort out these schools in Stoke and
:29:04. > :29:05.they are still among the worst performing in the country. You are
:29:06. > :29:08.condemning these parents to having to send their kids to bad schools.
:29:09. > :29:11.Where we have seen the sett ing up of Derby, Suffolk, we have seen that
:29:12. > :29:14.is not the simple solution. Is simply setting up a new is not a
:29:15. > :29:16.successful model. What works is good leadership. I was in Birmingham on
:29:17. > :29:17.Friday at a failing comprehensive is not a successful model. What works
:29:18. > :29:20.Friday at a failing comprehensive is is good leadership. I was in
:29:21. > :29:22.Birmingham on Friday at a failing comprehensive school and now people
:29:23. > :29:24.are queueing round the block to get into it. You can turn around schools
:29:25. > :29:26.with the right leadership, passionate and motivated teachers,
:29:27. > :29:31.and parents engaged with the learning outcome of their kids. In
:29:32. > :29:37.the last few years of the Labour Government, only four kids from your
:29:38. > :29:39.this Government would set up the new school. In Birmingham, they got in a
:29:40. > :29:42.great headmaster and turned the school around and now people are
:29:43. > :29:44.queueing round the block to get into it. You can turnaround schools with
:29:45. > :29:46.the right leadership, passionate and motivated teachers, and parents
:29:47. > :29:49.engaged with the learning outcome of their kids. In the last few years of
:29:50. > :29:52.a Labour Government, only four kids from your area of and you had plenty
:29:53. > :29:55.of chances to put this right but only four got to the two and you had
:29:56. > :30:01.plenty of chances to put this right but only four got to the two leading
:30:02. > :30:05.universities. Traditionally young people could leave school at 16 and
:30:06. > :30:08.walking two jobs in the potteries, the steel industry, the
:30:09. > :30:11.traditionally young people could leave school at 16 and walking two
:30:12. > :30:17.jobs in the potteries, the steel industry, the but also to get an
:30:18. > :30:24.apprenticeship at Jaguar Land Rover, JCB, Rolls-Royce. That is why
:30:25. > :30:29.Ed Miliband's focus on the forgotten 15%, which we have just not seen
:30:30. > :30:40.from this Government, focusing on technical and vocational pathways,
:30:41. > :30:56.is fundamental to Your headmaster was guiles Slaughter. Was he a good
:30:57. > :31:04.teacher? He He never taught me. Over 90% of teeners in the private
:31:05. > :31:07.sector are qualified. They look for not simply teachers with qualified
:31:08. > :31:11.teacher status. Teachers with MAs. Teachers who are improving them
:31:12. > :31:20.cephalitis. Becoming better educators.
:31:21. > :31:21.cephalitis. Becoming better teaching. You were taught by
:31:22. > :31:26.unqualified teachers. Your parents paid over ?15,000 a year for you
:31:27. > :31:31.being taught by unqualified teachers. Why did you make such a
:31:32. > :31:35.big deal of it? Because we've seen right around the world those
:31:36. > :31:41.education systems which focus on having the most qualified teachers
:31:42. > :31:48.perform the best. It cannot be right that anyone can simply turn up, as
:31:49. > :31:51.at the moment, have schools at veritising for unqualified teachers
:31:52. > :31:58.teaching in the classroom. We want the best qualified teachers with the
:31:59. > :32:04.deepest subject knowledge, for the passion in learning for their kids.
:32:05. > :32:08.It is absurd we are having arguments about this. Simply having a paper
:32:09. > :32:14.qualification doesn't make you a great teacher. Let me take you to
:32:15. > :32:20.Brighton college. It is gone from the 147th to the 18 18th best
:32:21. > :32:35.private school in the land. Fllt the headmaster says:
:32:36. > :32:48.This is the top Sundaytimes school of the year. The school in derby
:32:49. > :32:50.where this Government allowed unqualified teaching assist taints.
:32:51. > :32:54.We had teachers who could barely speak English. That is because if
:32:55. > :32:59.you have unqualified teachers you end up with a dangerous situation.
:33:00. > :33:04.The problem with that school was not unqualified teachers. People were
:33:05. > :33:09.running that school who were unfit to run a school. We have an issue
:33:10. > :33:13.about discipline and behaviour management in some of our schools.
:33:14. > :33:17.Some of the skills teachers gain through qualifications and learning
:33:18. > :33:21.is how to manage classes and get the best out of kids at every stage. It
:33:22. > :33:27.doesn't end with a qualified teacher status. That's just the beginning.
:33:28. > :33:49.We want our teachers to have continue it will development.
:33:50. > :34:07.You have taught as an unqualified teacher. I am delighted to do it. We
:34:08. > :34:14.want unqualified teachers to gain qualified teacher status. If they
:34:15. > :34:24.are not interested in deepening the knowledge I do not think they should
:34:25. > :34:31.be in the classroom. But if a school has hired a teacher knowing that
:34:32. > :34:40.they were unqualified, they would be in breach of the law? They are being
:34:41. > :34:48.urged by us to make sure they have qualified teacher status. But if
:34:49. > :34:58.they say they do not want to do it, will you fire them? Teachers should
:34:59. > :35:03.have the qualifications to teach and inspire our young people,
:35:04. > :35:17.particularly when we face global competition. He finds inspiring
:35:18. > :35:23.teachers who do not necessarily have a teaching qualification. It is
:35:24. > :35:35.different teaching nice young boys and girls in Brighton than teaching
:35:36. > :35:45.different children with behavioural and educational needs. Do you think
:35:46. > :35:53.that somebody called Tristram Hunt could ever lead the Labour Party.
:35:54. > :36:05.Somebody called Ed is leading the Labour Party. It is great that David
:36:06. > :36:16.Owen is back with us. Have you thought of switching to Tommy or
:36:17. > :36:20.Tony? There is a long history in the party of people with funny names and
:36:21. > :36:28.via love the Labour Party is that it accepts everybody including me.
:36:29. > :36:30.You're watching The Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers in
:36:31. > :36:39.Scotland who leave us now for Sunday Politics Scotland.
:36:40. > :36:51.Good morning and welcome to Sunday Politics Scotland. Coming up on the
:36:52. > :36:55.programme. Join me on the battlefield of Bannockburn were
:36:56. > :36:59.conflict has broken out. We'll be asking if the strategy is right for
:37:00. > :37:01.success. And the thorny question over whether Doctor Who will be
:37:02. > :37:07.regenerated in a post-independence Scotland. Bannockburn is the
:37:08. > :37:10."birthplace of the modern nation". The First Minister said that when
:37:11. > :37:14.the new visitor centre opened this week. In just four months' time,
:37:15. > :37:19.thousands of people are expected to assemble there for Bannockburn Live
:37:20. > :37:22.to commemorate the event. But organisers are bearing the scars of
:37:23. > :37:25.their own battles already, as questions are raised about a low
:37:26. > :37:28.level of ticket sales and marketing, the tourist board's accountability
:37:29. > :37:31.and concerns over the clash with Armed Forces Day, which is also
:37:32. > :37:36.taking place in Stirling. Andrew Kerr has been to the battlefield to
:37:37. > :37:41.find out more. The creation of a nation. Bannockburn that paved the
:37:42. > :37:48.way for Scotland to secure its independence. 700 years later a new
:37:49. > :37:53.visitor centre opened at this weekend and in June, the battlefield
:37:54. > :38:00.will echo once more with Bannockburn Live. There are concerns the event
:38:01. > :38:05.is being diluted and it will last for two days rather than three.
:38:06. > :38:12.20,000 tickets are now available rather than the 45,001st planned.
:38:13. > :38:21.The convener of the standing counsel of Scottish chiefs says that the
:38:22. > :38:28.scheduling could put people off, particularly clansmen from abroad.
:38:29. > :38:33.It has caused confusion amongst our friends overseas as to what is going
:38:34. > :38:39.on because they need a clear-cut plan because they are buying air
:38:40. > :38:45.tickets, booking accommodation, closing up their own homes in
:38:46. > :38:52.Colorado or California and come here. It causes confusion and that
:38:53. > :38:57.is nothing worse than a confused ancestral Scottish tourists because
:38:58. > :39:04.they are the ones putting the money into this. It is a highly
:39:05. > :39:09.politicised atmosphere and the pro union Stirling council leadership
:39:10. > :39:17.deny hijacking an event some perceive as being pro-independence.
:39:18. > :39:20.No one from stumbling Counsel was available but they did release a
:39:21. > :39:24.statement saying that an application and be made last year to host the
:39:25. > :39:36.even bigger and more spectacular Armed Forces Day event. It seems
:39:37. > :39:47.that The National Trust gratefully handed over the administration to
:39:48. > :39:50.Visit Scotland. But there is a feeling amongst some parties they
:39:51. > :39:59.are being kept in the dark by the tourists board. It is concerning
:40:00. > :40:03.that ticket sales have not gone well so far and the Scottish tunes on the
:40:04. > :40:06.street is relying on it being a success and it will be very
:40:07. > :40:17.disappointing if it does not live up to expectations. Concerns have been
:40:18. > :40:31.expressed about low levels of marketing. In 2009, the organisers
:40:32. > :40:38.of the Gathering event went to Northern America and promoted the
:40:39. > :40:46.event and went around with leaflets and the like promoting the event. I
:40:47. > :40:50.am not sure of Visit Scotland and the people organising Bannockburn
:40:51. > :40:54.have actually done that. Visit Scotland says you cannot compare the
:40:55. > :41:02.two events and are happy to address all the concerns and confident the
:41:03. > :41:05.event will be happy and successful. It was always the case that
:41:06. > :41:15.promotional committee would be built up as we work towards the event
:41:16. > :41:24.itself. The largest tickets have already sold out 90% of the
:41:25. > :41:29.allocation. All the indications are that ticket sales will go well as we
:41:30. > :41:33.read up to the event. There may be dissent in the ranks and frequent
:41:34. > :41:44.skirmishes then all will no doubt get behind the Bruce. Well, a little
:41:45. > :41:48.earlier, I spoke to Bruce Crawford who is the SNP MSP for Stirling and
:41:49. > :41:51.asked if he had concerns over the Bannockburn Live event. I have no
:41:52. > :41:54.concerns, this will be a fantastic weekend and people should be excited
:41:55. > :42:09.about this. On a Friday evening there will be uptight festival -- a
:42:10. > :42:17.pipe Festival and the largest ever battlefield re-enactment. There will
:42:18. > :42:28.be a storytelling area and a kitchen, and a armoury. It will be a
:42:29. > :42:38.great event and something to get really excited about. What has gone
:42:39. > :42:43.wrong with the organisation? Nothing has gone wrong. There has been a
:42:44. > :42:52.transfer from National Trust for Scotland and Historic Scotland and
:42:53. > :42:59.ticket sales are going well. We have not even got to the launch event yet
:43:00. > :43:19.which is in two weeks time. It is a fantastic opportunity. I was at an
:43:20. > :43:28.event in Stirling and there was a fantastic atmosphere. We were to
:43:29. > :43:32.40,000 people were expected which has now been downgraded to 20,000.
:43:33. > :43:37.We are told only 2000 tickets have been sold and that is now no longer
:43:38. > :43:44.a three-day event but a two-day event. From the outside, it looks as
:43:45. > :43:49.if this is an event in crisis. There is a third day still happening,
:43:50. > :43:54.which is an exclusive event for the clans on the Monday. The Saturday
:43:55. > :44:00.and Sunday have been extended so it can dovetail with Armed Forces Day
:44:01. > :44:06.which takes place in the city on the same day. That helps people with
:44:07. > :44:10.concession tickets to. It is right to rearrange things as they begin to
:44:11. > :44:16.unfold. We do not even get to the proper launch of the marketing until
:44:17. > :44:29.two weeks time. The most expensive tickets have almost gone and I was
:44:30. > :44:44.in the new Bannockburn centre which is a fantastic place. Businesses and
:44:45. > :44:54.spelling are looking forward -- businesses in in Stirling are
:44:55. > :44:59.looking forward to the event. Within minutes of this being announced, I
:45:00. > :45:06.was one of the first to say I am entirely supportive of it. If you
:45:07. > :45:12.are a business person in Stirling it does not matter to you who is coming
:45:13. > :45:19.through that door, be it Armed Forces Day or the Bannockburn event.
:45:20. > :45:24.Everyone in Stirling is supporting what is going on. It is important
:45:25. > :45:30.that we make the two events dovetail with each other and that is what is
:45:31. > :45:36.going on. Some people say that Armed Forces day being held at the same
:45:37. > :45:40.time the same place is a direct challenge and this was a Unionist
:45:41. > :45:51.challenge, holding Armed Forces Day on the same day. I hear you telling
:45:52. > :45:58.me that but I have hardly met a single individual who has told me
:45:59. > :46:13.that. I have not had this from businesses in Stirling. This will be
:46:14. > :46:18.a fantastic Festival of papers -- of pipers sitting alongside Armed
:46:19. > :46:28.Forces Day and people should be enthusiastic. It is also about
:46:29. > :46:32.concern for public money, when we look at the homecoming event, an
:46:33. > :46:36.event that lost money, people may ask whether we are encouraging
:46:37. > :46:44.people to come to Scotland in the right way? This is a different event
:46:45. > :46:47.to the homecoming event. That was focused on an international
:46:48. > :46:52.perspective, this is much more focused on a domestic perspective.
:46:53. > :46:57.It is a break even event. They're estimating they can take in ?230,000
:46:58. > :47:01.or something in that order over that weekend to help cover the costs. It
:47:02. > :47:08.will be a break even event. It has been well-managed. Visit Scotland
:47:09. > :47:12.have the marketing skills and ability to make this take off. We
:47:13. > :47:19.don't even get to the marketing strategy being announced until two
:47:20. > :47:23.weeks. There is a long way to go. Visit Scotland, if they are the
:47:24. > :47:31.right organisation, why were they in charge from the beginning? The
:47:32. > :47:36.National Trust For Scotland on the site, they are still involved in the
:47:37. > :47:47.planning group, we have a good partnership working in the city to
:47:48. > :47:50.deliver these events. I think everything is working well, there is
:47:51. > :47:53.a good synergy between the partnerships. When it comes to
:47:54. > :47:59.promoting Scotland and encouraging people to visit different parts of
:48:00. > :48:04.Scotland, do we need to think about -- think less about these formal
:48:05. > :48:09.events, and think about people coming to Scotland for locks and
:48:10. > :48:12.other parts of our history. Whoever comes to visit Stirling over that
:48:13. > :48:19.weekend, whether they are going to Armed Forces Day, Bannockburn Live,
:48:20. > :48:22.they'll be getting the opportunity to be exposed to the fantastic
:48:23. > :48:26.scenery and surroundings around about them. My constituency right
:48:27. > :48:36.alongside the battlefield here, we have the Trossachs and the mountains
:48:37. > :48:42.of the Stirling area as well as the Wallace Monument. It is a great
:48:43. > :48:47.backdrop. I can't wait for it. I cannot understand how Ebola aren't
:48:48. > :48:55.more excited about this and I would encourage everyone to. -- why people
:48:56. > :49:00.aren't more excited. If it does not work, who foot the bill? We are back
:49:01. > :49:10.at the negative point of view. Visit Scotland have a solid experience in
:49:11. > :49:14.the area. It will be a success, tickets for one of the days of
:49:15. > :49:19.almost sold out, and that is the most expensive ticket and we don't
:49:20. > :49:22.even get to the marketing opportunity for two weeks. It is
:49:23. > :49:25.time for people to be more upbeat and excited. Thank you for joining
:49:26. > :49:28.us. In a question and answer session at
:49:29. > :49:31.the Oxford Media Convention this week, the UK government's Culture
:49:32. > :49:34.Secretary Maria Miller is reported as saying that a vote for
:49:35. > :49:36.independence would mean leaving UK institutions, including the BBC. The
:49:37. > :49:39.Scottish Government's White Paper proposes replacing the BBC with a
:49:40. > :49:49.new Scottish Broadcasting Service based on the assets and staff of BBC
:49:50. > :49:52.Scotland. So does Maria Miller's intervention signal that Doctor Who
:49:53. > :49:59.may have regenerated for the last time for Scottish viewers, or is it
:50:00. > :50:02.all up for negotiation? Plenty of things will change as
:50:03. > :50:06.Scotland votes for independence, but the Scottish Open says he able to
:50:07. > :50:11.enjoy BBC programmes would be one of them. The Scottish governance
:50:12. > :50:15.potluck white paper says that if Scotland votes for independence, the
:50:16. > :50:20.BBC will be replaced by new Scottish and servers. This will be based on
:50:21. > :50:23.the staff and assets of BBC Scotland initially. Its funding would come
:50:24. > :50:29.from a licensed the end a share of the BBC's emotional income. It
:50:30. > :50:31.proposes... A joint-venture where the Scottish broadcasting
:50:32. > :50:43.service... How likely is such a deal? One
:50:44. > :50:49.expert says the issue of content will be key. In the event of a vote
:50:50. > :50:52.for independence, it seems to me in the longer term it is almost
:50:53. > :50:55.inconceivable that viewers in Scotland will not be able to get
:50:56. > :51:04.access to the BBC's services that like. In terms of the negotiation of
:51:05. > :51:09.evidence you, this would be the BBC in dealing with Scotland as it would
:51:10. > :51:14.with any foreign customer. The UK Government says any bid to use
:51:15. > :51:17.existing services and content would need to be negotiated, taking into
:51:18. > :51:20.account what the effect might be on the service the rest of the UK
:51:21. > :51:27.receives. The BBC itself would be drawn. Broadcasting is the one area
:51:28. > :51:31.of public policy were under a Royal Charter we are allowed to make
:51:32. > :51:37.comment upon. However, to do so is problematic for us. Ramiro because
:51:38. > :51:42.broadcasting and the future role of the BBC is an issue within the
:51:43. > :51:46.current constitutional debate. -- primarily. For us to make comment
:51:47. > :51:53.could be seen as a snaking comment on a constitutional issue. That in
:51:54. > :51:57.turn could impact on impartiality on the debate, so we have chosen not to
:51:58. > :52:01.make comment. What we have said basically is that we will not enter
:52:02. > :52:06.into any public or private discussions about the future role or
:52:07. > :52:11.shape or nature of the services of the BBC after the referendum until
:52:12. > :52:15.that referendum has taken place. Some believe there should still be
:52:16. > :52:20.radical change, even if Scotland votes to remain part of the union. I
:52:21. > :52:25.think the audience research shows that there is a dissatisfaction with
:52:26. > :52:29.how the BBC serves Scottish audiences with Scottish output. I
:52:30. > :52:33.think when you come up to charter renewal, there needs to be a debate
:52:34. > :52:43.about whether broadcasting should be devolved. How can the BBC itself
:52:44. > :52:47.serve and fund output in Scotland better? Because Scotland is going to
:52:48. > :52:55.be such a different place. If there is a no vote, there will be
:52:56. > :52:58.increasing revolution, if the BBC wants to keep in touch with Scottish
:52:59. > :53:06.audiences, it needs to think about change. -- increasing devolution.
:53:07. > :53:11.Speaking about broadcasting, the First Minister made what he called
:53:12. > :53:13.the Edinburgh declaration, Eastenders is safe. Asked how that
:53:14. > :53:50.happens, for independence is a difference
:53:51. > :53:55.deal, because the legal advice which the UK Government has and has made
:53:56. > :54:01.clear says that if they leave the UK, we leave this reduces and the
:54:02. > :54:05.BBC is one of those. What we have with the media argument is the same
:54:06. > :54:09.as we had with currency, defence, everything. The Scottish Government
:54:10. > :54:14.is making an assertion, what they will do. They may not have that
:54:15. > :54:20.choice, because the BBC may say, actually, we are going to move
:54:21. > :54:27.staff, assets, whatever to the UK. If all of that ?320 million is spent
:54:28. > :54:30.in Scotland on Scottish output, does it not follow that viewers and
:54:31. > :54:37.listeners get a better deal? The iMac as has been pointed out, there
:54:38. > :54:42.will be a debate anyway. It is fair to say as he did that there is a
:54:43. > :54:47.general unhappiness about the level of input that Scotland has on the
:54:48. > :54:51.BBC networks. When I worked at the BBC, it was something that was
:54:52. > :54:56.discussed then. That is a different argument. But only half of the
:54:57. > :55:02.people surveyed show that the Scottish people think that the BBC
:55:03. > :55:07.is value for money. That is a different argument. Yes, the
:55:08. > :55:10.Scottish parliament should have more powers, perhaps we need to look at
:55:11. > :55:14.the BBC during charter renewal and improve the service in Scotland.
:55:15. > :55:22.That is a different argument is... Be arguing this surely that -- the
:55:23. > :55:27.argument is surely that Scottish viewers are being short-changed.
:55:28. > :55:30.Argument about that is different from the Independence. We don't know
:55:31. > :55:38.what will happen to the BBC and its assets. The Scottish Government say
:55:39. > :55:46.we will build on the assets. Do they mean you, Pacific key, Beech Grove
:55:47. > :55:50.in Aberdeen? Those are things that the -- that belong to the BBC and
:55:51. > :55:56.there no guarantee they would have access to them. I said based in
:55:57. > :56:00.Scotland, but that does not mean they will get them. They can make
:56:01. > :56:05.all the assertions they want. The other factor is that if they make
:56:06. > :56:09.this Scottish Broadcasting Service, it will need a new framework, what
:56:10. > :56:18.will that be? Will they still want Ofcom? They talk about the licence
:56:19. > :56:23.fee, at the moment the ?320 million raised will not be enough for a
:56:24. > :56:27.brand-new broadcasting service. Ie same people will not get the TV and
:56:28. > :56:35.radio programmes that they currently receive? -- are you saying. If a
:56:36. > :56:38.separate service was set up, it could do what other channels do in
:56:39. > :56:44.other countries do, mine BBC programmes. I don't think that many
:56:45. > :56:48.people will decide how they are voting on the referendum and whether
:56:49. > :56:51.or not they get Doctor Who at 6pm on a Saturday or it is shown at ten
:56:52. > :56:59.o'clock on a Sunday night because the Scottish broadcasters have
:57:00. > :57:02.bought it and... Some people may be concerned about these things. There
:57:03. > :57:06.have been stories suggesting that that may not be the case that they
:57:07. > :57:13.are available, but as far as you're concerned, they would be available
:57:14. > :57:16.to viewers in Scotland? Scotland could buy the programmes. The BBC
:57:17. > :57:21.sells programmes throughout the world. If you look at Norway, which
:57:22. > :57:24.is always the example that the Scottish Government gives, if you
:57:25. > :57:27.look at Norway they buy programmes from all over the place, but their
:57:28. > :57:39.licence fee is twice wet we currently pay. -- what we currently
:57:40. > :57:44.pay. Like a lot of other countries, Canadians, Americans, the Irish by
:57:45. > :57:51.BBC programmes. Television is a huge market. It is not just about the BBC
:57:52. > :57:57.making programmes for viewers in Britain, they are making programmes
:57:58. > :58:02.for countries all over the world. Some shows are a huge success.
:58:03. > :58:08.Scotland could leave the UK, the BBC, and the BBC says you can have
:58:09. > :58:13.two things, you can buy Strictly Come Dancing, or you can buy the
:58:14. > :58:16.format and do-it-yourself. But it would probably have to be bought.
:58:17. > :58:19.Well, listening to that interview is the Cabinet Secretary for Culture
:58:20. > :58:22.External Affairs, Fiona Hyslop, who joins me from our Edinburgh studio.
:58:23. > :58:32.Let's pick up on one of the points that was made there. In about... The
:58:33. > :58:37.BBC would continue to serve, but a vote to leave the UK is a vote to
:58:38. > :58:42.lead institutions, including the BBC. I think it reflects the
:58:43. > :58:46.attitude of the UK Government. I think this idea that the UK
:58:47. > :58:51.Government ministers are telling us what we can and cannot have, I think
:58:52. > :58:57.that is a very patronising view of Scotland. You are being accused of
:58:58. > :59:00.asserting, what is your evidence? In terms of the staff and assets, we
:59:01. > :59:05.think they will be the foundation for a new broadcasting Corporation,
:59:06. > :59:09.we will get the programmes we have just now. Just remember, other
:59:10. > :59:14.countries like Ireland and Finland have twice the amount of original TV
:59:15. > :59:18.production coming out of their countries than BBC Scotland has. It
:59:19. > :59:22.is about content and making sure that people see what they want to
:59:23. > :59:26.see, developing the skills and talent of our production companies,
:59:27. > :59:32.but also about satisfaction. BBC Scotland is the only part of the UK
:59:33. > :59:37.that has less than their own... Something needs to change. There is
:59:38. > :59:41.no guarantee with a no vote that there would be anything on offer.
:59:42. > :59:44.When you say it is about how we get the programmes, do you accept that
:59:45. > :59:50.there is a degree of negotiation that has to be had and that actually
:59:51. > :59:57.everything you have delivered might not be promised? You like it is due
:59:58. > :00:01.to be replaced, the charter, talk about negotiations, the last time we
:00:02. > :00:07.negotiated was 24 hours behind closed doors. That was far from
:00:08. > :00:14.satisfactory and led to a reduction in the BBC budgets.
:00:15. > :00:27.negotiating as a foreign customer? We think we could do it as a joint
:00:28. > :00:32.venture of, that would make sense. A co-commissioned some of the best
:00:33. > :00:36.productions. And who have the assets to the BBC worldwide as well. We
:00:37. > :00:44.have contributed to this assets over many years. How long would you have
:00:45. > :00:48.access to them? Your White Paper does not seem to make it clear, why
:00:49. > :00:57.would you have access to those funds? We have helped build up the
:00:58. > :01:05.BBC in terms of our contribution. We get a raw deal just now, the ?320
:01:06. > :01:11.million the juice from licence fees in 2016 there will only be less than
:01:12. > :01:18.that spent in Scotland. It is very much like the German model, for
:01:19. > :01:27.example. We can deliver it, I think, it was BA better deal for Scottish
:01:28. > :01:33.viewers. -- it would be a. I think people are fed up seeing the BBC 6pm
:01:34. > :01:37.news with health and education stories that have nothing to do with
:01:38. > :01:44.Scotland. We need stories for Scotland. What other set up costs of
:01:45. > :01:53.a new broadcasting service? In terms of BBC Scotland, I don't think
:01:54. > :02:01.Christine has read the white paper, one of the pages set out the details
:02:02. > :02:05.of this. What is the figure? We would inherit in terms of... So
:02:06. > :02:11.there will be no cost as far as you are concerned? Would have a share in
:02:12. > :02:16.assets, we have estimated it all to be about ?345 million, the licence
:02:17. > :02:21.fee figures comes from a policy statement issued by BBC Scotland, so
:02:22. > :02:24.it is perfectly doable. In terms of budgets, we would have a strong
:02:25. > :02:29.position and far more to invest in Scottish originated product than
:02:30. > :02:35.some do have. Would you have two papers of the programmes that you
:02:36. > :02:40.say would be protected? -- have to pay. Scottish viewers have access to
:02:41. > :02:47.something like 50,000 hours via the IPlayer, it won't be a fair swap,
:02:48. > :02:54.will it? Interest from BBC Scotland, they currently receive a
:02:55. > :02:59.20% reduction, it is that 9%. I think it would be in their interest
:03:00. > :03:03.to make sure that the contribution still is there in terms of
:03:04. > :03:08.co-production and co-commissioning and developing programmes for
:03:09. > :03:13.Scotland. Remember, the current Government in Westminster who don't
:03:14. > :03:16.have much faith in public broadcasting, the chairman has been
:03:17. > :03:21.questioning whether the licence fee should be protected. Far from being
:03:22. > :03:26.an offer of more broadcasting for Scotland, it is probably going in
:03:27. > :03:29.reverse. There is every indication from backbenchers in the
:03:30. > :03:32.Conservative Party that you may not have public service broadcasting if
:03:33. > :03:37.you vote no and there is no guarantee under devolution of more
:03:38. > :03:40.powers. If you want change for broadcasting and a better service
:03:41. > :03:42.for Scottish viewers, then a yes vote gives a clear way forward.
:03:43. > :03:51.Thank you very much. You're watching Sunday Politics
:03:52. > :04:01.Scotland - let's cross now for the news from Reporting Scotland with
:04:02. > :04:04.Andrew Kerr. Leading figures on both sides of the independence debate
:04:05. > :04:09.have marked the campaign entering its final 200 days. The Deputy First
:04:10. > :04:15.Minister Nicola Sturgeon said only a Yes vote would secure the powers
:04:16. > :04:18.Scotland needs. Backing a No vote, the Scottish Secretary Alistair
:04:19. > :04:23.Carmichael urged people to use their vote on the 18th of September
:04:24. > :04:26."wisely". Accident and Emergency staff in Scotland have been the
:04:27. > :04:29.victims of 774 attacks over the last two years. The figures come from
:04:30. > :04:34.information obtained by the Liberal Democrats. They say it's "shameful"
:04:35. > :04:37.that staff in A units were subjected to physical and verbal
:04:38. > :04:42.abuse. The Scottish Government said it was working to continue to bring
:04:43. > :04:46.down the rate of attacks. Boxing, and Ricky Burns suffered his first
:04:47. > :04:53.defeat in seven years as he lost his WBO World Lightweight title. The
:04:54. > :04:56.30-year-old Scot fought American Terence Crawford in Glasgow last
:04:57. > :04:58.night, losing on a unanimous points decision. Burns said the "better man
:04:59. > :05:15.won". Now a look at the weather forecast. Cloud will
:05:16. > :05:18.continue to thicken up and will be outbreaks of rain through the
:05:19. > :05:27.south-west and the central lowlands. The highest temperature
:05:28. > :05:31.will be around seven Celsius with a fresh southeasterly wind. As we head
:05:32. > :05:36.towards evening, the rain moves north.
:05:37. > :05:44.That's it. Back to Gary. Thanks, Andrew. Now in a moment, we'll be
:05:45. > :05:48.discussing the big events coming up this
:05:49. > :05:57.David Cameron and his cabinet met in Aberdeen to press the case of the
:05:58. > :06:05.union and to discuss the importance of the all industry. The Scottish
:06:06. > :06:11.Government was right cabinet also met. Production costs and oil have
:06:12. > :06:20.risen steeply but investment remains high. Standard Life says it is
:06:21. > :06:30.moving staff to England if there is a yes vote in the independence
:06:31. > :06:35.referendum. The Chief Executive of the international airline group says
:06:36. > :06:41.it could benefit from a yes vote. The Scottish Government could get
:06:42. > :06:54.rid of air passenger duty. Gamekeepers want to end the ban on
:06:55. > :07:00.docking working dog's tales. That was the week gone by. Let's take a
:07:01. > :07:04.look now at what's in the Sunday papers and what's happening in the
:07:05. > :07:07.week to come. Joining me this morning is the writer and columnist
:07:08. > :07:19.Katie Grant and the author and Scotsman columnist George Kerevan.
:07:20. > :07:25.The Sunday Times headline. It says that the Better Together campaign
:07:26. > :07:35.has failed to raise even half of its funding murky. Is there a crisis? It
:07:36. > :07:41.is a bit of a concern. The Yes campaign have lots of money,
:07:42. > :07:49.particularly from lottery winners. I think that the Yes campaign and the
:07:50. > :08:11.SNB Aaron slight disagreement about who actually owns the money. -- SNP
:08:12. > :08:14.are in slight disagreement. The London press has insane headlines
:08:15. > :08:23.every day about what will go wrong if we vote yes. If you put the
:08:24. > :08:27.propaganda and the money that is Better Together has, you can see
:08:28. > :08:44.that the union side has the big money. Scotland On Sunday says that
:08:45. > :08:51.to lottery winners are handing over a seven figure sum to the yes
:08:52. > :08:59.campaign. They are putting their money where their politics is. Here
:09:00. > :09:07.we have a debate and the entire London media is on the Unionist
:09:08. > :09:12.side. I do not think that is democratic affair and it shows you
:09:13. > :09:17.the kind of difficulties that we have in having a debate in Scotland
:09:18. > :09:23.on a roll in. Do we need to look at how the media is behaving in all of
:09:24. > :09:28.this? I think it is true to say that the media coverage on both sides is
:09:29. > :09:36.pretty awful. One side is doom and gloom and the other is away with the
:09:37. > :09:45.fairies. The Yes side has no major media. We need to have a more
:09:46. > :09:49.balanced board. It would be good to have one newspaper really good goal
:09:50. > :09:56.that was not just about politics but was also about the issues. Perhaps
:09:57. > :10:02.no one would read it. Are you saying that newspapers should not express
:10:03. > :10:07.an opinion? I do not think we will ever get the magic moment when there
:10:08. > :10:11.is complete objectivity that we need both sides arguing it out in the
:10:12. > :10:16.media. We do not have the same kind of weight of argument for the yes
:10:17. > :10:21.vote in the media as we do for the no vote. It is coming from London.
:10:22. > :10:28.Scottish newspapers do not argue the yes vote. There could be more papers
:10:29. > :10:34.in Scotland and Scotland is capable of generating newspapers are self
:10:35. > :10:46.but perhaps the Yes campaign is not entirely convincing. There is
:10:47. > :11:06.coverage in Scotland On Sunday about Labour's plans for Hollywood. --
:11:07. > :11:10.plans for Holyrood. We do not have any major London parties saying that
:11:11. > :11:22.in the event of a no vote that they will expand powers for Scotland.
:11:23. > :11:25.These are the parties of the United Kingdom. I do not think it is fair
:11:26. > :11:46.to say that London is seeing this and Scotland is being dumbed down.
:11:47. > :11:50.-- 's London is saying this. Once you get beyond a certain number of
:11:51. > :12:09.powers, why not have independence? It is a difficult balance to draw
:12:10. > :12:19.and I think everybody is in a stew. Those divisions are clearly played
:12:20. > :12:26.on by the Yes campaign. A divided opposition is a weak opposition.
:12:27. > :12:29.This is what everybody will have to do and say what they believe rather
:12:30. > :12:44.than keeping on playing politics which puts most people. 200 days to
:12:45. > :12:54.go until the referendum. The front page of the Sunday Herlad. Herald
:12:55. > :13:06.speaks about Nicola Sturgeon's speech tomorrow. There are divisions
:13:07. > :13:13.in the yes campaign, too? I suspect that the majority of opinion in
:13:14. > :13:20.Scotland is centre-left and social democratic. I think that in England
:13:21. > :13:27.things are going in the opposite direction. Why do you think that
:13:28. > :13:34.Alex Salmond needs to go to London to make a speech? If I was him, I
:13:35. > :13:40.would do the same and it will get coverage in all the newspapers.
:13:41. > :13:47.Maybe David Cameron will come up north and talk to Alex Salmond.
:13:48. > :13:52.Thank you for joining us. That's all from the us this week. I'll be back
:13:53. > :14:03.at the same time next week. Until then, goodbye.