:00:34. > :00:38.Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics.
:00:39. > :00:41.Pressure on Culture Secretary Maria Miller mounts as the Tory press,
:00:42. > :00:45.Tory voters and even a Tory minister turn against her. That's our top
:00:46. > :00:48.story. The economic outlook is getting
:00:49. > :00:55.rosier. But Ed Miliband is having none of it. The cost of living
:00:56. > :00:56.crisis is here to stay, says Labour. Shadow Minister Caroline Flint joins
:00:57. > :01:06.us for the Sunday Interview. And we bring you the Sunday Politics
:01:07. > :01:11.Gallery, but which former world leader is behind these paintings of
:01:12. > :01:13.world leaders? Coming up in Sunday Politics
:01:14. > :01:16.Scotland. Tributes continue to be paid to Margo MacDonald, the
:01:17. > :01:32.independent MSP, who died on Friday, at the age of 70.
:01:33. > :01:36.And with me as always, the best and the brightest political panel in the
:01:37. > :01:39.business - Janan Ganesh, Helen Lewis and Nick Watt. Their tweets will be
:01:40. > :01:45.as brief as a Cabinet Minister's apology.
:01:46. > :01:49.A frenzy of betting on the Grand National yesterday. But there was
:01:50. > :01:53.one book on which betting was suspended, and that was on the fate
:01:54. > :01:56.of Culture Secretary Maria Miller, now the 2/1 favourite to be forced
:01:57. > :01:59.out the Cabinet. She galloped through her apology to the Commons
:02:00. > :02:03.on Thursday in just 32 seconds. But speed did her no favours. There's
:02:04. > :02:06.been mounting pressure on her to resign ever since, especially from
:02:07. > :02:08.Tories. And this weekend the Chairman of the Independent
:02:09. > :02:12.Parliamentary Standards Authority, Ian Kennedy, said it's time MPs gave
:02:13. > :02:26.away the power to decide how colleagues who break the rules are
:02:27. > :02:31.punished. An inquiry into Maria Miller's expenses claims was launch
:02:32. > :02:37.in 2012, following allegations he claimed ?90,000 to fund a house she
:02:38. > :02:41.lived in part time with her parents. She had designated this her second
:02:42. > :02:44.home. She was referred to the Parliamentary Standards
:02:45. > :02:51.Commissioner, who recommended that she repay ?45,000. But this week the
:02:52. > :02:55.Commons Standards Committee, comprising of MPs from all parties,
:02:56. > :03:02.dismissed the complaint against Maria Miller and ordered her to
:03:03. > :03:09.repay just ?5,800 for inadvertently overclaiming her merge claimants.
:03:10. > :03:13.She was forced to apologise to the Commons for the legalistic way she
:03:14. > :03:18.dealt with the complaints against her. But Tony Gallagher told the
:03:19. > :03:22.Daily Politics on Friday: We got a third call from Craig Oliver who
:03:23. > :03:27.pointed out, she is looking at Leveson and the call is badly timed.
:03:28. > :03:29.I think if you are making a series of telephone calls to a newspaper
:03:30. > :03:30.organisation investigating the conduct of a Cabinet Minister, that
:03:31. > :03:36.comes close After that interview Craig Oliver
:03:37. > :03:40.contacted us, saying there was no threat in anyway over Leveson. I
:03:41. > :03:44.mead it clear at the time. Tony Gallagher is talking rubbish about
:03:45. > :03:48.me, and you can use that. The Daily Telegraph have released a tape of a
:03:49. > :03:52.phone call between Maria Miller's aid, Joanna Hindley, and a reporter
:03:53. > :03:57.investigating her expenses claim. Joanna Hindley said:
:03:58. > :04:05.Maria's obviously been having quite a lot of editor's meetings around
:04:06. > :04:10.Leveson at the moment. So I'm just going to kind of flag up that
:04:11. > :04:13.connection for you to think about. The Prime Minister is sticking by
:04:14. > :04:16.his Culture Secretary, but this weekend's crescendo of criticism of
:04:17. > :04:19.her presents him with a problem and he could be wishing Maria Miller
:04:20. > :04:25.would just fall on her sword. Even over 80% of Tory voters in a Mail on
:04:26. > :04:28.Sunday poll think she should go. On the Andrew Marr Show, the Work and
:04:29. > :04:35.Pensions Secretary, Iain Duncan Smith, defended his colleague. I've
:04:36. > :04:39.known her always to be a reasonable and honest person. But is she doing
:04:40. > :04:43.the Government or her any good by staying in office at the moment, do
:04:44. > :04:47.you think? This is a matter the Prime Minister has to take
:04:48. > :04:51.consideration of and she herself. My view generally is I'm supportive of
:04:52. > :04:56.Maria, because if we are not careful we end one a witch-hunt of somebody.
:04:57. > :04:59.And I'm joined now by the Conservative MP, Bob Stewart, and
:05:00. > :05:02.the man in the white suit, former MP and anti-sleaze campaigner Martin
:05:03. > :05:05.Bell. Welcome to you both. Stuart Stuart sturkts let me put this to
:05:06. > :05:09.you, a Conservative MP told this programme, this is a quote, she has
:05:10. > :05:14.handled this appallingly. Downing Street has acted like judge and
:05:15. > :05:17.jury, for Craig Oliver to get involved is disastrous. She's been
:05:18. > :05:22.protected by the whips from the start. What do you say to that? It's
:05:23. > :05:26.not great, is it? The fact of the matter is the question one should
:05:27. > :05:33.ask is, did she deliberately try to make money? Did she deliberately try
:05:34. > :05:36.to obscure ate? The answer is she certainly didn't deliberately try to
:05:37. > :05:41.make money, in the system, which was the old system, and with regard to
:05:42. > :05:46.obscure ago, I wasn't there, but let's put it this way. She was going
:05:47. > :05:51.through a quasi-judicial process and might have ended up in court, so she
:05:52. > :05:56.has a right to defend herself. Hold on o you said she doesn't do it to
:05:57. > :06:00.make money, she remortgaged the house a couple of times to earn more
:06:01. > :06:03.interest to us, the taxpayer, and when interest rates went down she
:06:04. > :06:08.didn't reduce the amount she was charging in expenses. Well, the
:06:09. > :06:14.point is the adjudicator said there was ?45,000 she was owed. And then a
:06:15. > :06:18.committee, Standards Committee, said actually it should be reduced. That
:06:19. > :06:22.was mainly MPs but there are three lay members. Yes, but they don't
:06:23. > :06:26.have the vote. OK, fine, that is where it is wrong and we've got to
:06:27. > :06:31.get it sorted. Let me put another quote from our Conservative MP. He
:06:32. > :06:36.didn't want to be named. None of you do at the moment. I'm being named.
:06:37. > :06:40.But you are backing her. George young in cahoots. He's been leading
:06:41. > :06:44.on the Standards Committee to find her innocent. The Standards
:06:45. > :06:49.Committee is unfit for purpose. I think the Standards Committee should
:06:50. > :06:54.be revisited. I think the system is still evolving. And I think actually
:06:55. > :06:58.we ought to have totally independent judgment on MPs' pay and allowances.
:06:59. > :07:04.We haven't have not got there yet and that is where it is wrong.
:07:05. > :07:07.Martin Bell, have MPs interfered in the Maria Miller process and with
:07:08. > :07:11.the current Standards Commissioner in the same way that they saw off a
:07:12. > :07:17.previous Commissioner they thought was too independent? Andrew it is
:07:18. > :07:25.exactly the same. Yesterday I looked at a diary entry I made for May
:07:26. > :07:30.2000, I said, dreadful meeting standards and privileges, they are
:07:31. > :07:36.playing party politics. One of them told Elizabeth fill kin to her face
:07:37. > :07:41.the gossip in the tea room was she had gone crazy. Nothing's changed.
:07:42. > :07:46.What this shows is most of all, what's the committee for? If it is
:07:47. > :07:51.just going to rubber stamp what the party wants and its mates, I don't
:07:52. > :07:56.see any point. But it hasn't rubber stamped. It's changed it. Well, it
:07:57. > :08:00.has watered down. That's why we should make it totally independent
:08:01. > :08:08.and it shouldn't be involved in the House of Commons. It is plus plus ca
:08:09. > :08:12.change isn't it? MPs', scandal, and MPs closing ranks for one of their
:08:13. > :08:17.own. Has the Commons learned nothing? And this is after the
:08:18. > :08:21.expenses scandal, where everything was out for everybody to see, you
:08:22. > :08:26.would think MPs would be careful. This is before the expenses scandal.
:08:27. > :08:28.We are looking at an historical event, during your time, Martin, not
:08:29. > :08:32.We are looking at an historical mine. I'm clean on this. You
:08:33. > :08:37.campaigned for him as an independent. I did, he was a good
:08:38. > :08:42.friend of mine. And now you've joined the club. And now you are
:08:43. > :08:45.defending Maria Miller? I'm defending someone who hasn't been
:08:46. > :08:48.proved guilty of anything beyond the fact she was rather slow to come
:08:49. > :08:53.forward with evidence. My point on that, is I understand that. MPs are
:08:54. > :08:58.being lambasted the whole time these days. There were a heck of a lot of
:08:59. > :09:03.them, Martin, who are utterly decent. She didn't try to make
:09:04. > :09:06.money. We've just been through that. I don't think that's right. The jury
:09:07. > :09:12.is out on that. What should have happened in the Miller case, Martin
:09:13. > :09:14.Bell? I don't think there should be a committee on standards. I think
:09:15. > :09:19.the Commissioner should make a report. There has been to be justice
:09:20. > :09:25.for the MP complained against. Then the committee of the whole House can
:09:26. > :09:29.consider it. But we are, the House of Commons, then as now is incapable
:09:30. > :09:36.of regulating itself. That's been proving yet again. She made a
:09:37. > :09:39.perfunctory apology. She threatened and instructed the Standards
:09:40. > :09:45.Commissioner investigating her, and her special adviser linked expenses
:09:46. > :09:49.to Leveson, when trying to stop the Daily Telegraph from publishing. I
:09:50. > :09:53.mean, is that the behaviour of a Cabinet Minister? Well, it's
:09:54. > :09:57.probably not the behaviour of someone that's got time on their
:09:58. > :10:02.hands. She's a very busy Cabinet Minister. Well, she had enough time
:10:03. > :10:09.to write lots of letters to the Standards Commission ser. She felt
:10:10. > :10:14.under such threat. She had the time. She had to make the time. Die know
:10:15. > :10:18.the lady is not trying desperately to make money. I disagree but on
:10:19. > :10:23.that. The fact of the matter is, this was an old, old system, that
:10:24. > :10:26.we've tried to put right, or the Commons has tried to put right. I
:10:27. > :10:33.agree that MPs shouldn't get involved in this. Should we get rid
:10:34. > :10:37.of this committee? It serves no purpose except to cause trouble. The
:10:38. > :10:42.adjudicator has said that and it should be the end of it. It
:10:43. > :10:46.shouldn't come back to the Commons. Although her special adviser
:10:47. > :10:49.threatened them over Leveson she was and is the Minister responsible for
:10:50. > :10:54.trying to introduce something like Leveson and that is something a big
:10:55. > :11:03.chunk that the press doesn't want. She is a target. It has a good
:11:04. > :11:08.record on this issue. It played wit a straight bat. The facts aren't in
:11:09. > :11:13.dispute are they? Will she make it to the next cabinet reshuffle and
:11:14. > :11:19.then go? Iain Duncan Smith said it is a matter for the Prime Minister.
:11:20. > :11:23.In my view, as things stand, I question did she deliberately want
:11:24. > :11:29.to make money? I don't think she did. Should she go? No. Should she
:11:30. > :11:32.be reshuffled? I don't know. Goodness me, you are asking someone
:11:33. > :11:38.who will never be reshuffled, because he will never make it. I was
:11:39. > :11:42.only asking for your opinion, not your ability to do it. This is a
:11:43. > :11:49.problem for Cameron isn't it? It is a problem for Cameron. There is
:11:50. > :11:54.nothing wrong with returning to be badge benches, as you know. Hear,
:11:55. > :11:59.hear. To that. Stick with me. Helen, can she survive? Is I'm going out of
:12:00. > :12:07.the prediction game when I said Clegg is going to win the date, so I
:12:08. > :12:14.owe Janan a tenner on that one. Grant Shapps has supported her. She
:12:15. > :12:20.was ringed by Sir George young and Jeremy Hunt... This is pretty
:12:21. > :12:24.devastating. On past form David Cameron hates having to bounce
:12:25. > :12:29.people out of the cabinet. He will want to keep Maria Miller until the
:12:30. > :12:32.summer reshuffle. This is a question mark on whether she survive this is.
:12:33. > :12:36.This isn't damaging to the Conservative or the Labour Party, it
:12:37. > :12:40.is damaging to everyone. This is catastrophic damage to the entire
:12:41. > :12:44.political establishment. Every single speech that David Cameron and
:12:45. > :12:48.Ed Miliband have given since 2009, talking about restoring trust, they
:12:49. > :12:51.can wipe them from their computers, because voters are going to look
:12:52. > :12:56.that there and say, this lot haven't learnt anything. They are giving
:12:57. > :13:02.perfunctory apologies and then you have MPs sitting in judgment on MPs
:13:03. > :13:09.and rather than paying back ?45,000, she pays back ?5,800 after MPs have
:13:10. > :13:13.been into it. Damage is huge. Just getting rid of one Cabinet Minister,
:13:14. > :13:17.you will need to do more than that. You will notice that Labour haven't
:13:18. > :13:21.made huge weather of this. No, goodness me, they have their own
:13:22. > :13:27.skeletons. Exactly. The person who has made hay out of this is Nigel
:13:28. > :13:32.Farage, who has not been backwards in coming forward. He doesn't seem
:13:33. > :13:36.to care about skeletons. The Prime Minister has be-Gunby backing her,
:13:37. > :13:41.but that's not popular even with Tory voters. How does he get out of
:13:42. > :13:46.this? This is the problem for him. Five years ago his reaction to the
:13:47. > :13:51.expenses scandal was seen by many Tory backbenchers as excessive. They
:13:52. > :13:56.felt hung out to dry by a man who is independently wealthy. To go from
:13:57. > :14:00.that to making a special exemption to Maria Miller because it is
:14:01. > :14:03.politically suitable is more incendiary and provocative. It is
:14:04. > :14:05.not just upsetting the voters and the Daily Telegraph but a good
:14:06. > :14:11.number of people behind him. I think they will get rid of her. I think
:14:12. > :14:19.the Government, to paraphrase Churchill, will zoo the decent thing
:14:20. > :14:23.after exhausting all options, of the European elections a reshuffle. The
:14:24. > :14:27.culture department has gone from a baulk water in haul to one of the
:14:28. > :14:31.most politically sensational jobs because of its proximity to the
:14:32. > :14:43.Leveson issue. She has to be replaced by someone Lily skillful
:14:44. > :14:54.and substantial. Mr Cameron is not short of smart women? Nikki Morgan,
:14:55. > :14:57.the education department, these are absolutely outstanding women and the
:14:58. > :15:04.problem that the generation elected in 2005, Maria Miller generation,
:15:05. > :15:12.there are some really good people elected in 2010. You are not
:15:13. > :15:17.responsible for hacking into the culture Department's Twitter account
:15:18. > :15:24.last night? I was out at the time! They all say that! One so, Maria
:15:25. > :15:31.Miller is like a modern-day Robin Hood... She robs the poor to help
:15:32. > :15:41.the rich. Which one of us has not embezzled the taxpayer? I reckon it
:15:42. > :15:49.is the lady. You have the perfect cover. We would not know how to,
:15:50. > :15:55.would we? You cannot tweet from a mobile device, can you? Play it
:15:56. > :15:59.safe. No, do something dramatic. Have lots of pledges. Have just a
:16:00. > :16:02.few pledges. Ah, there must be a Labour policy review reaching its
:16:03. > :16:06.conclusion because everyone has some free advice for the party about its
:16:07. > :16:13.message and the man delivering it. Here's Adam. He is well liked by the
:16:14. > :16:19.public don't quite buy him as a leader. The papers say he is in hock
:16:20. > :16:24.to the unions and the party has a lead in the polls but it is not
:16:25. > :16:32.solid. Bartenders Neil Kinnock. That is what they said Winnie who lost
:16:33. > :16:40.the 1982 election. The whole country deserves better and we will work to
:16:41. > :16:42.ensure that the day will come when with the Labour government, the
:16:43. > :16:50.country will get better. Someone who was there can see some spooky
:16:51. > :16:53.parallels. The important lesson from 1992 is it cannot rest on your
:16:54. > :16:59.laurels and hope for the best, you cannot sit on a lead of seven points
:17:00. > :17:02.because the election narrows that and you cannot rely on the
:17:03. > :17:06.government not getting its act together because the Conservative
:17:07. > :17:11.Party was well funded and organised, the double whammy posters, the tax
:17:12. > :17:16.bombshell, but incredibly effective and the message was unified and they
:17:17. > :17:21.beat us on the campaign. The lesson for Labour today is this lead will
:17:22. > :17:27.evaporate quite possibly over the next few months and we might go into
:17:28. > :17:31.the election behind in the polls. But Ed Miliband is getting
:17:32. > :17:37.conflicting advice about how to avoid 1992 happening. Be bold, be
:17:38. > :17:41.cautious and then, the idea that Labour can squeak into office with
:17:42. > :17:46.just 35% of the vote, which worries some people. Each month, the Labour
:17:47. > :17:53.Party meets around the country and last week, everybody spoke about the
:17:54. > :17:58.dangers of this 35% strategy. They were increasingly unhappy and it is
:17:59. > :18:04.very important that those people around the leader naturally have a
:18:05. > :18:09.duty to protect him and they make sure he gets this message that while
:18:10. > :18:14.there is total support for him, they do want this key year in the run-up
:18:15. > :18:21.to the General Election to be putting out an alternative which we
:18:22. > :18:24.can defend on the doorstep. The doorstep where Neil Kinnock made his
:18:25. > :18:32.concession speech is crammed with Spanish back hackers. The old Labour
:18:33. > :18:36.offices are no a budget hostel. Labour headquarters is down the road
:18:37. > :18:40.and they are putting the finishing touches to a speech Ed Miliband will
:18:41. > :18:43.give this week about the cost of living and I am told he will drop
:18:44. > :18:49.hints about new policies in juicy areas like housing, low pay, growth
:18:50. > :18:52.and devolving power. As for the charge that they are not radical
:18:53. > :18:58.enough, his people say they want to be bold but they have to be credible
:18:59. > :19:02.as well. They say that Labour is more united than it has ever been
:19:03. > :19:06.but there has been some grumbling that the cost of living campaign is
:19:07. > :19:11.not the same as a vision for the country. And that Ed Miliband was
:19:12. > :19:14.not statesman-like enough at Prime Minister's Questions and one figure
:19:15. > :19:19.who sat at the same table in the Neil Kinnock years summed it up like
:19:20. > :19:22.this. Things are OK but it feels like we're playing for the draw.
:19:23. > :19:37.Shadow Energy Secretary Caroline Flint joins me now for the Sunday
:19:38. > :19:43.Interview. This 35% victory strategy, it does not sound very
:19:44. > :19:46.ambitious? I am campaigning to win this election with a majority
:19:47. > :19:53.government and everybody else around the table is also. But we want to go
:19:54. > :19:57.to every corner of the country and win votes for Labour and win seats,
:19:58. > :20:05.that is what we are working towards. To avoid last time, the coalition
:20:06. > :20:11.bartering. But that 35% is a victory strategy so are you saying there is
:20:12. > :20:16.no 35% strategy and that no one at the heart of Labour is not arguing
:20:17. > :20:20.for this? We are working to win around the country and to win all of
:20:21. > :20:26.those battle ground seats and we must have a strategy that appeals to
:20:27. > :20:29.a cross-section of the public but within that, that broad group Queen
:20:30. > :20:39.Elizabeth Olympic Park and. You could do that with 35% of the vote?
:20:40. > :20:44.There is lots of polling and everyone looks at this about what we
:20:45. > :20:48.need to do to get seats and we want to have a comprehensive majority at
:20:49. > :20:54.the next election to win to govern this country. Last week, we have
:20:55. > :20:59.been reading reports of splits in the party over policy and on
:21:00. > :21:05.tactics, even strategy. A struggle for control of the General Election
:21:06. > :21:11.manifesto, we are told. What are you arguing over? I said on the
:21:12. > :21:15.committee and just listening to the film before, it is about being
:21:16. > :21:21.radical but also credible and we are talking about evolution and that is
:21:22. > :21:27.an important subject but we are also united and to be honest, in 2010
:21:28. > :21:31.people were writing us off saying we would turn on ourselves and that has
:21:32. > :21:35.not been the case. We are not arguing about the fundamentals, we
:21:36. > :21:40.are discussing the policies that are coming up with different colleagues
:21:41. > :21:43.and talking about how we can make sure they are presented to the
:21:44. > :21:49.public and that is part of a process. That is a discussion, not
:21:50. > :21:53.disagreement. The Financial Times, which is usually pretty fair,
:21:54. > :21:59.reports a battle between Ed Miliband's radical instincts and the
:22:00. > :22:05.more business fiscal conservatism of Ed Balls. What side are you on? I am
:22:06. > :22:10.for radical change, I am for energy and I believe strongly we must be
:22:11. > :22:16.formed the market and people might portray that as anti-business but
:22:17. > :22:19.this is about more competition and transparency and others coming into
:22:20. > :22:26.this market so our policy on this is radical, not excepting the status
:22:27. > :22:34.quo. It is also for business. Opinion polls show that few people
:22:35. > :22:40.regard Ed Miliband as by Minister material -- Prime Minister material.
:22:41. > :22:48.That has been true since he became leader. And in some cases, they have
:22:49. > :22:52.been getting worse. Why is that? Opinion polls say certain things
:22:53. > :22:56.about the personalities of leaders, David Cameron is not great either.
:22:57. > :23:03.And they were not great when he was in opposition. At this stage, he was
:23:04. > :23:13.getting 49% as Prime Minister real material and Ed Miliband, 19. --
:23:14. > :23:17.Prime Minister material. When you look at certain questions that the
:23:18. > :23:21.public is asked about who you think you would trust about being fair in
:23:22. > :23:25.terms of policy towards Britain, who understands the cost of living
:23:26. > :23:31.crisis, they very much identify with Ed Miliband. We are ahead in the
:23:32. > :23:39.polls. Ed Miliband has made that happen. We have one more
:23:40. > :23:42.councillors, we have been running in by-elections and we have held this
:23:43. > :23:47.government over the barrel over six months on energy prices. That is to
:23:48. > :23:53.do with his leadership. The more that voters save him, the less they
:23:54. > :24:00.seem convinced. In 2011, he had been leader for one year, and only 11%
:24:01. > :24:10.regarded him as weird, by 2014, that was 41%. Look at that! Look at that
:24:11. > :24:12.weirdness! What people need is to know where the Labour Party stands
:24:13. > :24:18.on fundamental issues. And in those areas, particularly the cost of
:24:19. > :24:22.living and fairness and people being concerned that we are entering into
:24:23. > :24:27.a period where people will be worse for the first time ever at the end
:24:28. > :24:33.of the Parliament, these things are important and Ed Miliband is part of
:24:34. > :24:39.our success. Definitely. I think this is ridiculous, to be fair, he
:24:40. > :24:44.is not a politician that says, I am dying with the Arctic monkeys, I
:24:45. > :24:52.know who is the number one. He did not play that game. -- down. He is
:24:53. > :24:56.not either there to portray himself as someone who was with the
:24:57. > :25:02.children, I know everything about popular culture. His authenticity is
:25:03. > :25:06.the most important thing. People do not think he is authentic, unless
:25:07. > :25:11.they think we were at is authentic. Is it true that his staff applaud
:25:12. > :25:20.him when he comes back after giving even a mediocre speech? I have never
:25:21. > :25:25.heard that. I have never heard about him being applauded. And I am
:25:26. > :25:30.pleased to applaud him with he makes speeches, I have given him a
:25:31. > :25:34.standing ovation. You have to do that because the cameras are
:25:35. > :25:39.rolling! No, he made a good speech. Five minutes without notes. It took
:25:40. > :25:45.a long time to memorise I don't blame him! The cost of living.
:25:46. > :25:51.Focusing on that, it has paid dividends. But inflation is falling
:25:52. > :25:55.and perhaps collapsing, unemployment is falling faster than anybody
:25:56. > :26:01.thought, as we can see. Wages are rising, soon faster than prices.
:26:02. > :26:06.Retail sales are booming, people have got money in their pockets.
:26:07. > :26:12.Isn't the cost of living crisis narrative running out of steam? I do
:26:13. > :26:18.not think so and I should say that I welcome any sign of positive changes
:26:19. > :26:22.in the economy, if anybody gets a job in Doncaster, I am pleased by
:26:23. > :26:27.the end of this Parliament families will be over ?900 worse off because
:26:28. > :26:34.of tax and benefit changes and the working person is ?1600 worse off
:26:35. > :26:39.and it is the first government since the 1870s where people will be at
:26:40. > :26:42.the end of the Parliament. We believe the government made wrong
:26:43. > :26:43.choices that lead the rich off at the expense of those on middle and
:26:44. > :27:26.lower incomes. -- But they are working part-time. We
:27:27. > :27:35.still have nearly 1 million people unemployed. People feeling that. I
:27:36. > :27:39.was at an Asda in Doncaster and a guy summed it up nicely, he said I
:27:40. > :27:46.work very hard, at the end of the week, beyond paying my bills, I have
:27:47. > :27:55.nothing else. If you take out the top 10%, the average loss comes down
:27:56. > :28:02.to around ?400 and is less than half of what you are claiming. The 974
:28:03. > :28:08.finger as a average -- figure. I don't... Look, we have set up our
:28:09. > :28:15.figures, it shows that... I am taking out the top... Whatever way
:28:16. > :28:21.you shake it, people are worse off. Working people are worse off because
:28:22. > :28:25.pay hasn't kept with prices. You have backed the competition inquiry
:28:26. > :28:29.into the big six energy companies, but you intend to go ahead with the
:28:30. > :28:33.price freeze if you win and reconfigure the energy market even
:28:34. > :28:39.before its reports. So if you win, it is a waste of time, isn't it? No,
:28:40. > :28:44.I have always felt that if it does go that way, then made -- there may
:28:45. > :28:50.be areas that we have not thought of that the inquiry will draw attention
:28:51. > :28:53.to. You are absolutely right, our basic reforms, to have a new
:28:54. > :28:58.regulator, to separate supply and have a new pool, we will pursue
:28:59. > :29:01.them. What happens if the report comes out and concludes that what
:29:02. > :29:06.you are planning to do is not the right thing? He will still go ahead.
:29:07. > :29:12.The iMac no, it is not a waste of time. If you look at the report that
:29:13. > :29:19.Ofgem produced, some of the issues the label referred to, they cover
:29:20. > :29:28.that. The Ofgem report last week is a result, I think that it is clearly
:29:29. > :29:31.accepted in the sector, look at SSE, they have said that they will
:29:32. > :29:34.separate those parts of their business. I think we are pushing at
:29:35. > :29:41.an open door and I would be surprised if they don't agree. The
:29:42. > :29:45.SSE has already frozen its prices, but it has done so at a cost. It has
:29:46. > :29:50.said there will be job losses as a result and it is pulling out of
:29:51. > :29:55.major investment into offshore wind. It has already pulled out of gas. So
:29:56. > :29:59.if you freeze energies across the market, it may be the right thing to
:30:00. > :30:04.do but there will be a cost in terms of job and investment, correct?
:30:05. > :30:09.Yellow like I met with SSE and talked about these very issues. The
:30:10. > :30:13.jobs changes are about looking at how they could be more efficient as
:30:14. > :30:17.a company and about offshore wind that was not ready to do with the
:30:18. > :30:21.price freeze, that was more to do with issues around confidence in
:30:22. > :30:33.that area and willingness to but money into it. But there will be...
:30:34. > :30:37.Is at a price worth paying? These companies have been overcharging
:30:38. > :30:39.customers and not investing in their organisations and making them more
:30:40. > :30:44.efficient and I do not believe that a price freeze is linked to job
:30:45. > :30:49.losses. These companies need to be more efficient. The truth is that
:30:50. > :30:52.they are realising the fantastic opportunity for more jobs and growth
:30:53. > :30:58.from energy sector that has certainty going forward and that is
:30:59. > :31:02.what Labour will deliver. Thank you. You're watching Sunday Politics. We
:31:03. > :31:09.say goodbye to viewers in Scotland to leave us.
:31:10. > :31:12.Good morning and welcome to Sunday Politics Scotland.
:31:13. > :31:15.Coming up on the programme: We pay tribute to Margo MacDonald, one of
:31:16. > :31:23.the country's most influential politicians, who died on Friday.
:31:24. > :31:30.People who weren't very political maybe just saw the blonde bits and
:31:31. > :31:31.thought blonde bombshell, but people who were political didn't think
:31:32. > :31:34.that. As the campaign for the European
:31:35. > :31:36.Parliament elections draws closer, we'll look at the prospects for
:31:37. > :31:40.Scotland's MEPs. And calls for the SFA to make a
:31:41. > :31:44.stand over the treatment of migrant workers at World Cup venues in
:31:45. > :31:46.Qatar. Good morning.
:31:47. > :31:49.Tributes continue to be paid to the veteran politician Margo Macdonald
:31:50. > :31:52.who died on Friday. The former deputy leader of the SNP and
:31:53. > :31:55.committed supporter of independence had suffered from Parkinson's
:31:56. > :32:01.disease for nearly 20 years. She died peacefully in Edinburgh,
:32:02. > :32:04.surrounded by her family. A memorial service is being planned for later
:32:05. > :32:11.this month. We're joined now by her fellow MSP and good friend Christine
:32:12. > :32:16.Grahame. Clearly, this is a loss that will be
:32:17. > :32:24.felt keenly by Margo MacDonald's family, but I suppose by wider
:32:25. > :32:28.Scotland she was... She was. She was a determined lady, I know that to my
:32:29. > :32:34.cost. She was very funny, she was full of mischief, she was
:32:35. > :32:39.compassionate and kind. She extended that across the entire parliament. I
:32:40. > :32:42.have seen tributes from other politicians, but the wider
:32:43. > :32:46.Parliament, the staff of the parliament, from the Chief Executive
:32:47. > :32:50.right through to the security, she was kind to them and they
:32:51. > :32:55.reciprocated, especially as she found it more difficult to fulfil
:32:56. > :33:00.her duties in Parliament. And her staff, Peter and Mary, who supported
:33:01. > :33:06.her professionally and personally over the years, so in a way it was
:33:07. > :33:12.lovely because people saw the person she was and they responded. What do
:33:13. > :33:19.you believe drove her politics? Passion, principal firstly for
:33:20. > :33:23.independence obviously. But for other people who could not speak out
:33:24. > :33:27.for themselves, who could not articulate, whether it was
:33:28. > :33:33.prostitution, torrents free zones, whether it was end of assistance,
:33:34. > :33:37.she picked up issues that were not only for minorities and people with
:33:38. > :33:40.no voice, but also on the face of it not the easiest things to campaign
:33:41. > :33:47.on. She never gave up. We'd talk about her personality, some
:33:48. > :33:50.politicians have a public and private face, but that did not seem
:33:51. > :33:54.to be the case with Margo MacDonald. Yet a mac she was very
:33:55. > :33:58.naughty and you could see that wicked twinkle in her eye. You knew
:33:59. > :34:04.she was about to lead you where you should not journey. But you went
:34:05. > :34:12.along with her and it was a laugh. How much of a role model would use a
:34:13. > :34:19.father -- she was for other politicians? Hugely, and not just
:34:20. > :34:25.fallen. I see newer generations of politicians coming in, and they tour
:34:26. > :34:31.the party line too often and sometimes suppress values that they
:34:32. > :34:37.feel should be articulated. That is across the Parliament and Margo
:34:38. > :34:44.never did that. She'll minded people what politics should be about.
:34:45. > :34:48.Sticking to your principles. There weren't that many prominent women in
:34:49. > :34:58.politics in character. weren't that many prominent women in
:34:59. > :34:59.politics in character You like she was engaging. She was very
:35:00. > :35:12.personable. She was personable in the chamber,
:35:13. > :35:18.it was hard not to like her. The illness started to take its toll
:35:19. > :35:25.later, how did she cope overall with being ill? Such courage. So many
:35:26. > :35:30.people don't realise how tough it was for her. She joked about having
:35:31. > :35:41.her body about the Parliament and reversing into walls and going too
:35:42. > :35:46.fast without her driving licence. -- buggy. She never complained. In
:35:47. > :35:51.terms of the unfinished business, as it were, she was bringing back this
:35:52. > :35:58.bill on assisted dying, Patrick Harvie says he will try and steer it
:35:59. > :36:04.through Parliament. Winners be fitting for polymers to pass that?
:36:05. > :36:08.For Margo, it was about giving people choices. Not to be compulsory
:36:09. > :36:13.that you went for end of life assistance, but a choice. That's all
:36:14. > :36:18.she wanted to do. I hope that Parliament remembers that. Or she
:36:19. > :36:24.disappointed when the parliaments did not back her call? Of course,
:36:25. > :36:27.but we kept telling her that this is an incremental move. You have to
:36:28. > :36:31.take people with you a step at a time. She wanted is to be faster,
:36:32. > :36:34.but I think she got there and I hope she gets there and I think this will
:36:35. > :36:42.be a fitting tribute to a very heroic woman.
:36:43. > :36:45.It could perhaps be called the forgotten election. A campaign that
:36:46. > :36:48.doesn't attract much attention and the voting in of politicians who
:36:49. > :36:52.admit that they have a low profile. Yes, it's time for 300 million
:36:53. > :36:56.citizens in Europe to elect 751 MEPs on the 22nd of May. Five years ago,
:36:57. > :37:00.fewer than a third of Scots bothered to vote for the country's six MEPs.
:37:01. > :37:03.This time round, it's an election in which two referendums dominate
:37:04. > :37:06.discussion - the Scottish one and David Cameron's proposed one to stay
:37:07. > :37:14.or leave the EU. Andrew Kerr has been looking at the runners and
:37:15. > :37:27.riders. Here are the Europhiles. There are
:37:28. > :37:34.currently six regions, to MS P, -- to SMB, to Labour, one Conservative
:37:35. > :37:38.and one Liberal Democrats. With low turnouts, the public don't engage in
:37:39. > :37:46.this vote, but commentators say that the European Parliament does not
:37:47. > :37:51.mirror the parliaments that we know. It is not a federal body, not yet,
:37:52. > :37:55.it is still an association, free association. That does not mean that
:37:56. > :37:59.voting is completely irrelevant, it does not mean that the European
:38:00. > :38:05.Parliament is does not matter, it has an important role, it develops
:38:06. > :38:08.some confidence in its ability to shape the future of Europe, because
:38:09. > :38:13.remember there are big changes happening in Europe as a result of
:38:14. > :38:17.the Eurozone crisis, we will see a more centralised Europe, we will see
:38:18. > :38:22.financial institutions erected and the European Parliament will be
:38:23. > :38:29.crucial. There are plenty of critics of the Parliament. The point was to
:38:30. > :38:36.make institutions more accountable, the giant bureaucracy of Brussels
:38:37. > :38:41.had to be answerable. Has it worked? I don't think it has, I think the
:38:42. > :38:44.bureaucracy is almost as unaccountable as it ever was and has
:38:45. > :38:51.an internal dynamic to it, to driving forces are our greater
:38:52. > :38:56.expansion, it is an empire and an economic and political one, and the
:38:57. > :39:02.other driver is ever closer union. No matter what the electors think. A
:39:03. > :39:05.driving force in the election is the independence referendum for the SNP,
:39:06. > :39:12.they want Scotland to sit around the top table. One of the rights that
:39:13. > :39:17.come with member states of the European Union a very important and
:39:18. > :39:21.I would like to see Scotland taking the opportunity that the referendum
:39:22. > :39:27.brings to normalise our status in Europe and the world and to be a
:39:28. > :39:32.normal, independent country, collecting our own Governments and
:39:33. > :39:35.having those covenants having a right to represent as
:39:36. > :39:41.internationally. The Conservatives with their own plans for a
:39:42. > :39:45.referendum are sceptical. There is give as well as take. What the red
:39:46. > :39:55.lines for the SNP? What will they give up? We don't know. You vote for
:39:56. > :39:58.us in a referendum, will you know what we do, voting for
:39:59. > :40:02.independence, who knows what will happen next question at Labour
:40:03. > :40:06.aren't too happy with the state of the European Union, offering a
:40:07. > :40:13.critique of the right. We have a union that has been dominated by
:40:14. > :40:16.fear and austerity. We have seen unemployment rise, we have seen
:40:17. > :40:26.attack on worker rights, attacks on climate change. We have had a white
:40:27. > :40:33.ring majority, were very right wing majority in the European Parliament.
:40:34. > :40:36.-- right wing. Damaged by their association with
:40:37. > :40:42.the right, they are intending to cling on. I am hopeful and I think
:40:43. > :40:46.the polls will show that we are in with a good chance of holding onto
:40:47. > :40:49.our seats. We have a strong message that I think appeals to people and
:40:50. > :40:55.we will stand on the record that I have personally and the platform of
:40:56. > :41:00.being in the UK, in Europe and is being good for work and jobs. But
:41:01. > :41:06.the Scottish Greens hope to capitalise on the Lib Dems travails.
:41:07. > :41:12.The polls suggest that they are faring badly. It suggests that the
:41:13. > :41:18.Lib Dem vote has collapsed, the question is whether we can put
:41:19. > :41:22.forward a pro-European, peaceful and pro-public services agenda that will
:41:23. > :41:28.attract enough voters? We are hopeful and confidence that we can.
:41:29. > :41:34.Hoping to beat the Greens are UKIP, buoyed by their recent success. It
:41:35. > :41:41.is the only party in Scotland which is anti-EU. It does not mean I am
:41:42. > :41:46.anti-European, but we do not want to be ruled by the European Union which
:41:47. > :41:52.I think is a very bad organisation which is a bureaucracy trying to
:41:53. > :41:55.dominate business. Scotland votes on Thursday the 22nd of May, but the
:41:56. > :42:02.full results won't be known until the following month.
:42:03. > :42:05.I'm now joined from London by Joe Twyman who's Director of Political
:42:06. > :42:09.and Social Research at YouGov. How would you sum up the state of
:42:10. > :42:17.the parties in Scotland? It is interesting. The state is broadly
:42:18. > :42:22.similar to what we saw last time, we see that the SNP and Labour are
:42:23. > :42:27.doing very well, they are way ahead at the moment with Labour just in
:42:28. > :42:33.front. Everyone else is the also rans. What is most important is the
:42:34. > :42:39.national picture. When we look at the UK, we see this famous rise in
:42:40. > :42:42.UKIP support, the UKIP surge that has been mentioned a lot down here.
:42:43. > :42:47.But we're not seeing that in Scotland at all. They are struggling
:42:48. > :42:53.to even make double figures in the polls. We know that any opinion poll
:42:54. > :42:57.of European elections, even this far out, has a tendency to be
:42:58. > :43:01.hypothetical, because we know as people get closer to the elections
:43:02. > :43:06.themselves interest changes and certain parties do benefit from
:43:07. > :43:10.that. But even this far out, it is interesting. How important will turn
:43:11. > :43:13.out to be questioned whether there will be heightened interest in
:43:14. > :43:20.politics because the independence referendum? It is important for
:43:21. > :43:24.heightening interest in politics generally, but don't think it will
:43:25. > :43:27.translate heavily to the European elections. I think what is actually
:43:28. > :43:32.happening is that in Scotland at least it is proving a distraction. A
:43:33. > :43:35.lot of the political machinery is concentrating almost entirely on the
:43:36. > :43:37.in or out a lot of the political machinery is concentrating almost
:43:38. > :43:42.entirely on the in all-out referendum. So for something as
:43:43. > :43:45.marginal for Europeans, it is not attracting attention. You mention
:43:46. > :43:50.this is a battle between Labour and SNP. I wonder how important this
:43:51. > :43:55.will be for the Liberal Democrats? We're being told by their leadership
:43:56. > :43:56.that they are seeing signs of progress, I presume this will be an
:43:57. > :44:23.important poll. Indeed, they are not going to say
:44:24. > :44:29.there was no point in bothering. There was a decent nick Clegg was
:44:30. > :44:37.taking on Nigel Farage. Last time round UKIP registered their first
:44:38. > :44:44.ever performance in Scotland. Yes, it is not the heartland. Scotland is
:44:45. > :44:53.the most pro-EU although not overwhelmingly. In Scotland UKIP is
:44:54. > :44:59.seen as an English thing. That is something they have to counter. It
:45:00. > :45:08.will take some time and they have not managed it yet. Is the
:45:09. > :45:14.Conservative and UKIP issue resonating in Scotland as it is else
:45:15. > :45:21.we then the UK? In Scotland it is the Scottish referendum that is the
:45:22. > :45:27.big issue. That is capturing the imagination in a way that the
:45:28. > :45:40.European elections are not. Thank you for joining us. The decision to
:45:41. > :45:46.award the 2020 World Cup to Qatar have been controversial. Jim Murphy
:45:47. > :45:51.has just returned from their where he has been looking at conditions
:45:52. > :45:58.migrant workers in the construction industry are facing. What did you
:45:59. > :46:04.see? I travelled as a guest of the international TUC and as a guest of
:46:05. > :46:11.the Sunday mail newspaper. At those building sites the men who are
:46:12. > :46:19.constructing the roads and buildings will always stick with me. Unless
:46:20. > :46:24.the fire at it well she the game we love. People are being treated like
:46:25. > :46:29.animals. They are being misled and having their passports stolen. They
:46:30. > :46:37.have no quality of life. When they are recruited from countries in
:46:38. > :46:46.Africa we are the have no hopes of earning recent money and the move
:46:47. > :47:02.year they are having their passports ripped up. What do you want the SFA
:47:03. > :47:14.to stay -- say macro? This is the world's premier sporting event. For
:47:15. > :47:18.the SFA to remain silent as tens if not hundreds of thousands of workers
:47:19. > :47:25.are abused, lose their rights as they construct for the World Cup, it
:47:26. > :47:29.is utterly unacceptable. Does it matter that Scotland have not been
:47:30. > :47:37.part of the bigger picture of the World Cup for quite some time? We
:47:38. > :47:42.cannot be pessimistic, let's hope we are 2022 with some great young
:47:43. > :47:49.players. When it was voted for the World Cup to go to the Middle East
:47:50. > :47:55.for the first time ever this was not the deal. Having passports stolen,
:47:56. > :47:59.unable to return home, living in cramped conditions, multiple men
:48:00. > :48:06.living in conditions smaller than a child's bedroom. It is one of the
:48:07. > :48:12.richest countries in the world with a very controversial system which
:48:13. > :48:18.means the company literally owned every movement of the worker. They
:48:19. > :48:24.take the passport, the workers cannot move around without the
:48:25. > :48:30.company's permission. They cannot just get another job if they feel
:48:31. > :48:37.there is better conditions elsewhere? They cannot move around
:48:38. > :48:44.because they have taken their passport and they cannot go
:48:45. > :48:48.elsewhere or even go home. The problem with the fact is that it is
:48:49. > :48:54.a discredited organisation, isn't it? I think we can sort the
:48:55. > :49:08.worker's conditions encounter quicker than we can sort that.
:49:09. > :49:18.Should they be looking at moving the cup somewhere else? If the
:49:19. > :49:23.accusations of corruption the whole vote should be rerun and we should
:49:24. > :49:28.look to have it elsewhere but in the meantime we have to look at
:49:29. > :49:33.improving workers rights in Qatar. The people who are building
:49:34. > :49:38.hospitals, construction sites, roads and railways in the country should
:49:39. > :49:46.get workers rights and they have to have their rights protected. The SFA
:49:47. > :49:50.should speak up. Is the Sunday mail not the first newspaper to expose
:49:51. > :49:56.this? When there have been previous stories the government in Qatar say
:49:57. > :50:03.they will make changes but they have not done this so far so do you think
:50:04. > :50:10.it will change? When I was their meeting with committees for the
:50:11. > :50:19.World Cup they made some promises about worker's writes and ending the
:50:20. > :50:23.current system. We have to make sure they do that. They have issued a
:50:24. > :50:33.report which has been much delayed but aren't they talking about
:50:34. > :50:39.publishing that soon? They cannot ignore what we have said about this.
:50:40. > :50:43.These proud men, who are happy to have a World Cup built on the back
:50:44. > :50:50.of their sweat, just not on the back of abuse. There has to be radical
:50:51. > :50:56.change before these stadiums take place or else we will all be utterly
:50:57. > :51:02.ashamed of the game that we Scots love. We cannot look back and say
:51:03. > :51:06.how did that happen, we did not know. After the expose the
:51:07. > :51:14.intraday's Sunday mail there is no excuse for anyone to say they did
:51:15. > :51:24.not know. It is a model. Thank you. Now let's cross over for the latest
:51:25. > :51:27.news. Good afternoon. The Scottish prison service say they are
:51:28. > :51:33.considering an application for the drugs mule Melissa Reid to peak
:51:34. > :51:39.transfer home to serve the rest of her sentence. She was arrested with
:51:40. > :51:43.her friend last year after they were caught with cocaine. It is unclear
:51:44. > :51:48.how long the process could take. Churches and faith communities have
:51:49. > :51:52.come together to call for the role of religion to be recognised in
:51:53. > :51:59.Scottish society, whatever happens in the referendum. The Church of
:52:00. > :52:06.Scotland Moderator says she does not want to see history disappear. There
:52:07. > :52:11.should be something about the churches and the different faith
:52:12. > :52:17.groups in it. That is our heritage, where we have come from, our history
:52:18. > :52:21.and our background. Even if we start with the new constitution, we do not
:52:22. > :52:30.wipe out everything that has gone in the past. Police are calling for
:52:31. > :52:38.witnesses after a vintage car crashed near Aberdeen and the driver
:52:39. > :52:45.was killed. Now let's take a look at the weather. Cloudy, wet and windy
:52:46. > :52:50.across many parts of the country this afternoon. The earlier brighter
:52:51. > :52:55.spells will be replaced by wet weather as we head through the day.
:52:56. > :53:02.Behind this band of men things will improve with some sunshine later on.
:53:03. > :53:06.Feeling fairly mild. Temperatures windy up the West Coast. From late
:53:07. > :53:11.afternoon onwards the rain disappears and it will be a fine,
:53:12. > :53:17.dry evening for most of us. Dry overnight. Now let's look at some of
:53:18. > :53:24.the stories in the Sunday papers and what is coming up in the week ahead.
:53:25. > :53:31.I am joined by the political editor of the Herald and in Edinburgh by a
:53:32. > :53:37.freelance journalist and critic. Lots of tributes today to Margo
:53:38. > :53:44.MacDonald and as we heard earlier from a friend of hers, her death is
:53:45. > :53:51.being felt across Scotland. Absolutely. She did not recognise
:53:52. > :53:56.the kind of boundaries that more conventional politicians dead. She
:53:57. > :54:00.had this wonderful way of talking very sharply and strongly about
:54:01. > :54:05.political tactics one minute and then switching to something entirely
:54:06. > :54:12.personal. She is the only person who ever tried to marry me off. She
:54:13. > :54:18.asked if I was still single one day and said she had a really nice
:54:19. > :54:25.though she wanted me to meet. But I was unable to go to the dinner
:54:26. > :54:39.party. It is an example of how she was. The parliament will be all be
:54:40. > :54:43.put for the loss of her wit and intellect. It will be greatly
:54:44. > :54:50.diminished. She took very seriously hurt role as a parliamentarian in
:54:51. > :54:54.the truest sense. She did not go in for points scoring. There have been
:54:55. > :55:00.some marvellous and moving tributes to her which speak for themselves
:55:01. > :55:06.will stop she was a very human sort of person, if that makes sense. It
:55:07. > :55:12.explains this extraordinary ability she had to connect with people in
:55:13. > :55:17.politics and right across Scotland. Certainly, for the journalists who
:55:18. > :55:22.have been working at Holyrood, there was a sense of deep sadness on
:55:23. > :55:29.Friday in the media when the news came through. She will be dreadfully
:55:30. > :55:34.mist. Let's look at some of the stories in the papers. The Sunday
:55:35. > :55:39.Times has an opinion poll suggesting the unionist lead in the referendum
:55:40. > :55:44.debate has been cut from 24 points last year to just six. The
:55:45. > :55:54.Nationalists are addicting they will be in the lead by July. There does
:55:55. > :55:59.seem to be a trend developing. I am surprised by this shift towards the
:56:00. > :56:07.yes vote. It seems a bit more marked after beginning tentatively. It is
:56:08. > :56:15.down to the campaigning the yes campaign has been doing. I wonder
:56:16. > :56:24.what the gender breakdown is. Yes among men stands at 56% while women
:56:25. > :56:29.it is just 40%. Women still not being fully persuaded. I am
:56:30. > :56:36.wondering if there is beginning to be a shift among women. There is a
:56:37. > :56:40.lot of campaigning going on now by the women for independence which is
:56:41. > :56:45.addressing, in the spirit of Marco going up to women and asking what
:56:46. > :56:51.they want for their children and grandchildren. The yes campaign has
:56:52. > :56:55.strength on the ground with that face-to-face campaigning which I do
:56:56. > :57:03.not see on the no side at the moment. Many policies about
:57:04. > :57:10.childcare for example where about bringing women on side. I think this
:57:11. > :57:15.will be a big theme of the SNP conference which is coming up next
:57:16. > :57:23.weekend. The gap is getting closer and closer. The SNP tell as the
:57:24. > :57:29.lines on the graph will cross around about July if their current rate of
:57:30. > :57:35.progress is maintained. There is still this gender gap. One of the
:57:36. > :57:41.big offers in the White Paper is for greatly increased childcare. That
:57:42. > :57:47.policy appears to be in trouble. If you look at the numbers, how it will
:57:48. > :57:52.be afforded, there are reports out this last week which suggest that
:57:53. > :58:02.perhaps does not add together. It is a work in progress. And just a quick
:58:03. > :58:09.word on Tartan week, have important our events like this? I am not a
:58:10. > :58:14.huge fan of them to be honest. I do not think Scotland in the 21st
:58:15. > :58:19.century should be associated with Parton. The idea originated in the
:58:20. > :58:26.United States with a very right wing bunch. I think there should be
:58:27. > :58:31.promotion of Scotland from the point of view of trade and all the rest of
:58:32. > :58:38.it but I think they are things about the cliches around Tartan week that
:58:39. > :58:43.we could do without at this stage. That is from as this week. We are
:58:44. > :58:49.back next week at the slightly later time of half past two. Enjoyed what
:58:50. > :58:57.is left of your Sunday, goodbye.