:00:36. > :00:37.Morning, folks and welcome to the Sunday Politics.
:00:38. > :00:40.David Cameron slaps down two of his most senior cabinet ministers
:00:41. > :00:42.over their public row about Islamist extremism in schools.
:00:43. > :00:46.Michael Gove makes his apologies, but not to Theresa May - and it is
:00:47. > :00:48.her special advisor that has to resign.
:00:49. > :00:51.We will talk to the Shadow Education Secretary live.
:00:52. > :00:54.Should this man become the next President of the EU Commission?
:00:55. > :00:56.David Cameron has staked a lot on stopping Luxembourg federalist
:00:57. > :01:00.Jean-Claude Juncker, but could the arch Europhile yet get the top job?
:01:01. > :01:03.And we will find out why this political party is celebrating
:01:04. > :01:06.with a pint down the pub and how their success may have cost UKIP
:01:07. > :01:26.And coming up on Sunday Politics Scotland...
:01:27. > :01:28.Former Labour cabinet minister John Reid makes his first speech
:01:29. > :01:32.for the Better Together campaign. He will be on live, to tell us
:01:33. > :01:47.why it has taken him so long to enter the debate.
:01:48. > :01:49.who are always squabbling among themselves, Nick Watt, Polly Toynbee
:01:50. > :01:52.and Janan Ganesh, who will be tweeting throughout the programme
:01:53. > :01:57.This morning's political news is dominated
:01:58. > :01:59.by the very public fall-out of Home Secretary Theresa May and
:02:00. > :02:03.The high viz blue on blue spat between two senior
:02:04. > :02:06.Conservatives centred around the Government's approach to tackling
:02:07. > :02:12.The row burst into the open ahead of the publication tomorrow of
:02:13. > :02:16.investigations into the so-called Trojan Horse plot in Birmingham,
:02:17. > :02:20.where it is alleged several state schools have been covertly taken
:02:21. > :02:26.Mr Gove told The Times last week he was concerned that the Home Office
:02:27. > :02:29.was unwilling to tackle extremism at its roots.
:02:30. > :02:33.He said a robust response was needed to drain the swamp.
:02:34. > :02:35.In response, Mrs May's special advisor tweeted,
:02:36. > :02:38."why is the Department for Education wanting to blame other people
:02:39. > :02:45.Lord knows what more they have overlooked on the subject of the
:02:46. > :02:52.An angry David Cameron ordered a speedy inquiry.
:02:53. > :02:55.Last night, Mr Gove apologised to the Prime Minister, while Ms May's
:02:56. > :03:00.Speaking on the BBC earlier this morning,
:03:01. > :03:05.this is what Foreign Secretary, William Hague, had to say.
:03:06. > :03:08.There's been a disciplinary matter within the Government,
:03:09. > :03:11.which the Prime Minister has dealt with in a very firm, clear way.
:03:12. > :03:13.There will be discipline in the Government.
:03:14. > :03:18.The main thing is the issue itself - tackling extremism in schools.
:03:19. > :03:24.The Government will be very clear, very robust about anything that's
:03:25. > :03:43.put children at risk - risk to their safety or learning.
:03:44. > :03:54.Let's look at the positive of this. Theresa May 's people of saying she
:03:55. > :04:01.has come off worse in theirs. Yelena Kushi is no more guilty than Michael
:04:02. > :04:08.Gove he was guilty of indiscretion. She is no more guilty. Even during
:04:09. > :04:13.13 years of new Labour 's psychodrama, I cannot remember an
:04:14. > :04:24.act of hostility quite as naked as direct as publishing on a website
:04:25. > :04:27.and intergovernmental letter. It suggests quite a lot of
:04:28. > :04:32.conservatives do not think they will win next time. Why would there be a
:04:33. > :04:39.leadership spat going on like this unless they thought there was a
:04:40. > :04:43.vacancy? Inside the Cabinet, Theresa May is getting quite a bashing. In
:04:44. > :04:50.the Sunday Times, someone has reported she is the date from hell.
:04:51. > :04:55.She sidles up to people and is nakedly ambitious. I think that is
:04:56. > :05:00.interesting. On the whole, nobody will understand the finesse
:05:01. > :05:05.differences of opinion. It is not serious, it is not serious, it is
:05:06. > :05:10.tactical. It'll be puzzling for most people and will probably fizzle out.
:05:11. > :05:16.Has the Prime Minister slapped it down or will it rumble on? On the
:05:17. > :05:22.politics of it, it will not fizzle out. What you have is Theresa May is
:05:23. > :05:27.deadly serious about replacing David Cameron, not dislodging him but
:05:28. > :05:31.replacing him if there is a vacancy. Michael Gove is deadly serious in
:05:32. > :05:36.ensuring George Osborne succeeds David Cameron. It will be that
:05:37. > :05:40.ongoing political rivalry. What is really interesting about this is the
:05:41. > :05:45.Prime Minister is absolutely fed up with both of them. He is fed up with
:05:46. > :05:50.Michael Gove full-size gearing of message. He had the row with Nick
:05:51. > :05:56.Clegg and he had a row with Theresa May. He named Charles Barr and
:05:57. > :06:04.criticised him in a lunch with the times. White brother he is the
:06:05. > :06:14.Security adviser at the Home Office. -- he is the security advisor. He is
:06:15. > :06:18.fed up with Theresa May for mounting an unannounced leader bid. What
:06:19. > :06:26.separates Theresa May from Michael Gove on dealing with extremism? The
:06:27. > :06:29.view from Michael Gove is that it shows no interest in Islamic
:06:30. > :06:35.extremism until it manifests in violent form. Theresa May is
:06:36. > :06:41.criticised for rolling back the programme which the previous Labour
:06:42. > :06:45.government introduced to do with the previous Labour government
:06:46. > :06:51.introduced to do with the Home Office has been made by other people
:06:52. > :06:56.and made when the Home Office was not run by Theresa May but previous
:06:57. > :06:57.home secretaries, even dating back to the Conservative government in
:06:58. > :07:03.the 1990s. It is about the laxity of the Government. Michael Gove has
:07:04. > :07:09.used extraordinary inflammatory language talking about draining the
:07:10. > :07:13.swamp. I think Theresa May 's view is you can very easily inflamed
:07:14. > :07:20.those emotions and create many more extremists the process. Michael Gove
:07:21. > :07:24.would say that his approach is entirely consistent with the speech
:07:25. > :07:27.the Prime Minister made to the Munich Security conference in 2011
:07:28. > :07:29.when the Prime Minister talked about how extremists
:07:30. > :07:46.warp the grape great religion of Islam. The Birmingham school system
:07:47. > :07:51.is going to be one of the most reported systems in Europe.
:07:52. > :07:54.Joining me now from Kent is Shadow Education Secretary Tristram Hunt.
:07:55. > :08:04.Should parents of Birmingham children be worried that some of
:08:05. > :08:10.their schools are in the grip of an Islamist takeover? I think parents
:08:11. > :08:13.in Birmingham schools will be very disappointed by the political
:08:14. > :08:16.infighting going on in the Government. The briefings, the
:08:17. > :08:22.resignations, the apologies. The real apology that Michael Gove needs
:08:23. > :08:27.to deliver it to the pupil -- the pupils and parents of Birmingham.
:08:28. > :08:30.There was a potential threat of radicalisation. He fell to act for
:08:31. > :08:35.four years. The Labour Party is asking, when did he know the fact
:08:36. > :08:40.that radicalisation could have been taking place? What has been going on
:08:41. > :08:45.for the last four years? What we in the Labour Party want to see if much
:08:46. > :08:48.stronger systems of local oversight and accountability to situations
:08:49. > :08:53.like this do not arise again. Is there, in your view, if some of the
:08:54. > :09:03.Birmingham schools, an Islamist takeover? What we have seen in the
:09:04. > :09:07.leaked Ofsted report so far is fears about cultural isolation and an
:09:08. > :09:13.overconcentration on Islamic teaching within the curriculum. We
:09:14. > :09:17.want young people to celebrate their cultural identity, celebrate
:09:18. > :09:22.themselves as Muslims. We also want them to have an education which
:09:23. > :09:26.makes them succeed in multicultural 21st-century Birmingham. We want to
:09:27. > :09:32.be quite tough on moves towards gender segregation, a restricted
:09:33. > :09:38.curriculum. Birmingham is a multicultural city. We need an
:09:39. > :09:42.education system which celebrates that. What is wrong with gender
:09:43. > :09:50.segregation? You went to an all boys school. Where you have gender
:09:51. > :09:55.segregation, we have had a long tradition in Catholic schooling.
:09:56. > :10:00.Where you have a state education system, which is about gender
:10:01. > :10:04.equality between boys and girls, and there is an unofficial policy of
:10:05. > :10:08.gender segregation, that is unacceptable. We should not be
:10:09. > :10:14.tarring communities with the same brush in terms of radicalisation. We
:10:15. > :10:21.do want to see a successful, multicultural education. Two years
:10:22. > :10:25.ago, Ofsted rated Parkview as outstanding. Now it looks like
:10:26. > :10:32.tomorrow it is going into special measures. What is it up to? I do
:10:33. > :10:37.think there is an issue for Ofsted that you can go from outstanding to
:10:38. > :10:42.inadequate so quickly. That is why we are asking for a new criteria to
:10:43. > :10:48.be introduced to look at a broad and balanced curriculum. We have healthy
:10:49. > :10:53.sex and relationship education. There is a real issue this morning
:10:54. > :10:54.as the BBC has been reporting on the night for the Department of
:10:55. > :10:57.as the BBC has been reporting on the Education. We are hearing that some
:10:58. > :11:01.of those involved in the schools were not allowed to open a free
:11:02. > :11:04.school on security grounds. They were allowed to allow one of the
:11:05. > :11:09.schools to be taken over as an academy. We have a lack of oversight
:11:10. > :11:13.and accountability in schools within Birmingham. What the Labour Party
:11:14. > :11:22.wants is a local director of school standards to make sure we challenge
:11:23. > :11:29.underperformance and make sure we get in confronting Islamic extremism
:11:30. > :11:35.when it was in power? I was speaking to Hazel blears and she was very
:11:36. > :11:43.clear about the prevent programme which they rolled out when in
:11:44. > :11:51.office. A very atomised and fragmented school system where every
:11:52. > :11:56.school is looked at from behind a desk in Whitehall and he put that
:11:57. > :12:05.together and you do have an increased risk of chances of
:12:06. > :12:12.radicalisation. You have attacked Mr Gove for gross negligence. Was it
:12:13. > :12:21.the same -- you attacked Mr Gove for gross negligence. We are dealing
:12:22. > :12:26.with a government which has been in since 2010. The Government needs to
:12:27. > :12:34.hold the executive to account. We note the Department Michael Gove was
:12:35. > :12:38.warned by a senior and respected head teacher about fears over
:12:39. > :12:44.radicalism. What did he know and what did he act upon? We are hearing
:12:45. > :12:48.more reports of conversations about fears, about radicalisation, taking
:12:49. > :12:55.over some of the governing bodies of schools. We need to know what
:12:56. > :12:58.ministers did. Let me continue. You mention the capital to prevent
:12:59. > :13:08.strategy. Was it gross negligence for Labour to regularly consult a
:13:09. > :13:14.man who once headed a group dedicated to making Britain an
:13:15. > :13:19.Islamic state and wrote a book about schools full of Taliban style
:13:20. > :13:25.decrees. I think the events in Birmingham are enormously
:13:26. > :13:29.significant. About the nature of multiculturalism, the nature of
:13:30. > :13:33.education, the role of civic education, the role of faith
:13:34. > :13:37.schools. I will say to you this morning that Birmingham City
:13:38. > :13:45.Council, Ofsted, the Labour Party, the Department for Education were
:13:46. > :13:50.all involved in this conversation. In 2010, ministers were warned about
:13:51. > :13:56.potential radicalisation of schools and they fell to act. We need to
:13:57. > :14:01.know why, for years on, they allowed this situation to exacerbate. When
:14:02. > :14:05.you look at the record of labour and this government 's record, there are
:14:06. > :14:10.plenty of examples where both of you fail to act. Would it not be better
:14:11. > :14:16.to drop the party politics and get together to confront this problem
:14:17. > :14:21.for the sake of the children? There are a number of reports going on in
:14:22. > :14:25.Birmingham. Some are led by the city council, some by the Department for
:14:26. > :14:29.Education. Labour MPs this morning have come forward with the Bishop of
:14:30. > :14:35.Birmingham talking about faith in schools. If you have a minister
:14:36. > :14:39.failing to do their job, if you have a minister being given warnings in
:14:40. > :14:42.2010 and failing to act on them for four years, the opposition has a
:14:43. > :14:48.role to hold the executive to account. This is about the safety
:14:49. > :14:51.and standards of teaching for pupils in Birmingham schools. It is about a
:14:52. > :14:58.great education for these young people so they can succeed in a
:14:59. > :15:03.modern, multicultural Britain. Do you agree with your Shadow Cabinet
:15:04. > :15:10.colleague, Rachel Reeves, that Labour' as core voters are
:15:11. > :15:15.abandoning the party? She was building on what Ed said the day
:15:16. > :15:19.after the elections in Berwick. We have to make sure those communities
:15:20. > :15:23.who we historically represent regard Labour as having a successful
:15:24. > :15:27.message for them. I am passionate about making sure we have great
:15:28. > :15:33.vocational and technical education, the great academic education in our
:15:34. > :15:39.schools. If we have more work to do to get people to the polling
:15:40. > :15:48.booths, we must do that. We must with listen to what she says.
:15:49. > :15:52.David Cameron has staked a lot on stopping the former PM of Luxembourg
:15:53. > :15:55.- named by one newspaper as 'the most dangerous man in Europe'
:15:56. > :15:57.because of his federalist views - from becoming the next president
:15:58. > :16:05.Mr Cameron has reportedly described Jean Claude Juncker as a 'face from
:16:06. > :16:08.the 80s who cannot solve the problems of the next five years'.
:16:09. > :16:10.But with the German Chancellor Angela Merkel publicly backing Mr
:16:11. > :16:14.Juncker, it's not a dead cert that Mr Cameron can stop his appointment.
:16:15. > :16:19.This is what he had to say at the G7 summit earlier this week:
:16:20. > :16:25.It is important that we have people running the institutions of Europe
:16:26. > :16:29.who understand the need for change and reform. I would argue that view
:16:30. > :16:34.is widely shared amongst other heads of government and heads of state in
:16:35. > :16:40.the European Union. I am clear what I want to achieve for Britain's
:16:41. > :16:43.future, to secure Britain's placed in a reformed European Union and I
:16:44. > :16:47.have a strategy for delivering that, a strategy for dealing with an
:16:48. > :16:48.issue which I think if we walk away from it would see Britain drift
:16:49. > :16:50.towards the exits. We've been joined from Berlin
:16:51. > :16:54.by the German MEP Elmar Brok who is a senior figure in the EPP - that's
:16:55. > :16:57.the party backing Mr Juncker. He's also Chairman of the Union
:16:58. > :17:02.of European Federalists. And in our Newcastle newsroom is
:17:03. > :17:05.the former Conservative MEP Martin Callanan who until last month led
:17:06. > :17:09.the European Conservatives and Reformists group in Brussels.
:17:10. > :17:24.Welcome to you both. The United Kingdom, Sweden, Hungary,
:17:25. > :17:26.they don't want Mr Junker, the new Italian Prime Minister doesn't look
:17:27. > :17:33.keen either, should he bow out gracefully? First of all, he wants
:17:34. > :17:39.to have Mr Junker but he wants to have his conditions. Will he become
:17:40. > :17:46.president of the European Council, a high representative? It is a
:17:47. > :17:53.discussion to be had in the next three or four weeks until the
:17:54. > :17:55.European Parliament can elect the president of the European Council
:17:56. > :18:02.after the proposal of the European Council, which has to be done after
:18:03. > :18:08.consultation with the Parliament in the light of the European elections
:18:09. > :18:13.and by a majority vote. If not Mr Junker, then who? There are many
:18:14. > :18:19.available candidates, I am not going to mention them in front of someone
:18:20. > :18:24.so esteemed as Elmar Brok. Give us one name that you would prefer? The
:18:25. > :18:30.prime Minister of Sweden, Christine Lagarde, the minister from
:18:31. > :18:39.Lithuania, these are people who have a record of old reform. Junker is
:18:40. > :18:45.the ultimate Europe insider. We need radical inform. We need to respond
:18:46. > :18:50.to the message the electorate gave us in the elections -- radical
:18:51. > :18:54.reform. Junker said he had to lie in public, he allowed the security
:18:55. > :18:57.services to conduct a dirty tricks campaign against his opponent. This
:18:58. > :19:02.is not who we want leading the European Commission. Elmar Brok,
:19:03. > :19:05.since the European voters have sent a message to the parliament that
:19:06. > :19:12.they are not happy with the status quo, why would you want a man who is
:19:13. > :19:18.synonymous with the status quo? First of all what Martin has said is
:19:19. > :19:28.wrong. He has not done tricks against his opponents. He was very
:19:29. > :19:34.clear on that. He is also the man who was always for changes. He made
:19:35. > :19:38.dramatic changes as head of the Euro group, came out of the economic
:19:39. > :19:43.crisis which was a result of the financial crisis, made politics
:19:44. > :19:47.possible, to stop this incredible financial sector influence of our
:19:48. > :19:51.states. I believe he is a man who works on the programme which Mrs
:19:52. > :19:56.Merkel and others have decided in Dublin, for the reform of the
:19:57. > :20:00.European Union, less government. But we need Europe more and he is not a
:20:01. > :20:05.man from the 80s. He is a man of this century and in this century he
:20:06. > :20:08.made his own policy. He is the winner of the European elections, he
:20:09. > :20:13.has a majority will stop Mrs LANguard is not running because she
:20:14. > :20:21.knows she will not get the majority in the European Parliament. --
:20:22. > :20:26.Christine Lagarde is not running. It is the Council of minister is that
:20:27. > :20:31.decides. No, the European Parliament has the final word. The European
:20:32. > :20:34.Council can make a proposal by majority in the light of the
:20:35. > :20:38.European elections after consultation with the European
:20:39. > :20:42.Parliament. The council cannot get a candidate against the will of the
:20:43. > :20:48.European Parliament. Mr Junker has a majority in the European Parliament.
:20:49. > :20:52.Theoretically he is right, the Parliament has do vote on the
:20:53. > :20:55.candidates proposed by the council. I want to challenge the view that
:20:56. > :21:00.somehow he won the European elections. There is no provision for
:21:01. > :21:05.Jean Claude Junker to stand in the elections. He is saying that the EEP
:21:06. > :21:08.party got the most number of seats in the Parliament but none of the
:21:09. > :21:12.electorate knew they were taking part in this election. How many
:21:13. > :21:17.people who voted Labour in the United Kingdom realised that their
:21:18. > :21:21.vote would count towards a German socialist to be a candidate for the
:21:22. > :21:27.commission of presidency is a nonsensical proposal. The elections
:21:28. > :21:30.were 28 individual elections with hundreds of parties across Europe.
:21:31. > :21:33.To try to claim there is a democratic mandate for somebody
:21:34. > :21:44.nobody has heard from Luxembourg to take over the commission is a
:21:45. > :21:53.nonsense. People should know him, if I should say that ironically.
:21:54. > :22:00.Newspapers talking about members of the family of his wife with Nazi
:22:01. > :22:06.links... What is the answer to Martin Callinan's point? I think it
:22:07. > :22:11.is clear that British Conservatives have no candidate because they are
:22:12. > :22:16.not a broad European family, they have not impacted on the selection
:22:17. > :22:22.of top candidates but it is a form of isolation of the British Tory
:22:23. > :22:26.Party. The Prime Minister said if Mr Junker is appointed it could lead to
:22:27. > :22:32.Britain drifting towards the EU exit, is that credible? Is it
:22:33. > :22:34.melodramatic? It is true that we want to renegotiate the
:22:35. > :22:39.relationship. We want some serious reform in Europe so the people who
:22:40. > :22:44.vote in a referendum will be able to vote to stay in if that is what they
:22:45. > :22:52.want. We need a bold reformer, somebody prepared to engage. That is
:22:53. > :22:54.not anti the interests of the UK. We need to recognise there is a problem
:22:55. > :22:57.with public perception of the European Union. Elmar Brok is proud
:22:58. > :23:01.to be one of the last bastions of federalism that that is not where
:23:02. > :23:05.most of the public opinion is in Europe. I understand why he wants
:23:06. > :23:13.his man installed but we need to take into account the message of the
:23:14. > :23:16.letter -- the electorate. 25% of the publishing of France were prepared
:23:17. > :23:25.to vote for an openly racist party. We can't just ignore the signal that
:23:26. > :23:28.the electorate were sending us. If enthusiasm for federalism was at an
:23:29. > :23:32.all-time low, it would be a slap in the face for the voters of Europe to
:23:33. > :23:39.have a federalist as the president, would it not? 70, 80% of the members
:23:40. > :23:44.of the European Parliament, selected by their people, are pro-Europeans.
:23:45. > :23:48.These are the winners of the European elections. Even in France,
:23:49. > :23:52.a majority of voters have voted pro-European and that should be
:23:53. > :23:59.clear, not to make this a populist thing which is not only to do with
:24:00. > :24:09.Europe. And we want to have a Europe which is strong, the member states
:24:10. > :24:14.should do their things. We do not want to have a European centralism,
:24:15. > :24:17.we do not want a European state. This is not at stake. Let's talk
:24:18. > :24:22.about the question of better governance, let's talk about what
:24:23. > :24:26.was wrong in the past, we have to become better, to change our
:24:27. > :24:31.programme in that question. That should be the way we lead to come to
:24:32. > :24:37.positive results. Thank you for that. Before we go, there is a
:24:38. > :24:42.British commissioner that needs to be appointed to Brussels, do you
:24:43. > :24:45.like the sound of that? These are matters for the Prime Minister, I am
:24:46. > :24:53.sure he has many excellent candidates. Do you like the sound of
:24:54. > :25:00.it? Like previous British commissioners, Chris Patten, Neil
:25:01. > :25:02.clinic, I have just lost an election -- Neil Kinnock for the everybody
:25:03. > :25:07.who is asked would serve, I'm sure. Just days ago UKIP were celebrating
:25:08. > :25:10.topping the poll in the European They're claiming they'd have had two
:25:11. > :25:17.more MEPs and the Greens two fewer had another
:25:18. > :25:20.party not confused the electorate. What's more UKIP say it's
:25:21. > :25:22.the fault of the body which was set up to oversee
:25:23. > :25:37.elections - the Electoral Commission This is a party celebrating success
:25:38. > :25:43.at the European elections. They didn't win a single MEP but
:25:44. > :25:47.nationally polled 250,000 votes. They are an independence from
:25:48. > :25:51.Europe, mostly people who were once in UKIP, and that is rather the
:25:52. > :26:09.point. They may look like capers, drink like capers, sound like capers
:26:10. > :26:17.-- -- sound like kippers, but they are not. The name and the logo were
:26:18. > :26:21.displayed on this banner when the party launched its campaign. UKIP
:26:22. > :26:27.suggest the look, the wording and the inclusion of UK in now confused
:26:28. > :26:32.voters, and are looking at rewriting such a wrong. The way that seats are
:26:33. > :26:36.allocated in a European election under a proportional representation
:26:37. > :26:42.system is using this formula. It was invented by a Belgian mathematician
:26:43. > :26:48.in 1878 and it is essentially this. When all of the votes have been
:26:49. > :26:52.tallied up, the one with the most seats gets the first MEPC in a
:26:53. > :26:59.region. The others are allocated using votes cast divided by the
:27:00. > :27:04.number of seats gained plus one -- first MEP seat in a region. UKIP
:27:05. > :27:10.were concerned with South West and London. There they say, when the
:27:11. > :27:14.last MEP seats were being allocated, if everyone who had voted for an
:27:15. > :27:18.independence from Europe had meant to vote for UKIP and you tallied
:27:19. > :27:23.their votes up, and added them to UKIP, UKIP would have been up one in
:27:24. > :27:30.each region and the greens would have lost them. Whether you can
:27:31. > :27:37.prove that voters did that by mistake is a very different matter.
:27:38. > :27:40.UKIP may have to just chalk it up to experience. It has happened before,
:27:41. > :27:46.back in the European elections of 1994. Then in England under the
:27:47. > :27:51.first past the post system. This man, Richard Huggett, decided to
:27:52. > :27:54.stand as a little Democrat and polled a significant number of
:27:55. > :28:00.votes. The Liberal Democrat candidate at the time is now an MP.
:28:01. > :28:08.Many people voted and afterwards realised that they had bubbly voted
:28:09. > :28:12.for -- probably voted for a little Democrat, not a Liberal Democrat as
:28:13. > :28:16.they had been intending to do -- bubbly voted for a literal Democrat
:28:17. > :28:30.-- probably voted. Mr Sanders got some consolation. In
:28:31. > :28:32.1998, laws came into rule on so-called spoiler tactics and the
:28:33. > :28:36.Electoral Commission was established. The Electoral
:28:37. > :28:39.Commission are based on the seventh floor of this building and they did
:28:40. > :28:42.look into this issue prior to voting. They have given us a
:28:43. > :28:46.statement that reveals the conclusion they came to, part of
:28:47. > :28:51.which says, we decided that the name of the party, and its description
:28:52. > :28:56.are sufficiently different to those registered by the UK Independence
:28:57. > :29:00.Party, UKIP, to mean, in our opinion, that voters were not likely
:29:01. > :29:08.to be confused if they appeared on the same ballot paper. Pretty
:29:09. > :29:12.conclusive stuff. Back at the pub, were an independence from Europe
:29:13. > :29:18.just being crafty, or do UKIP need to wake up and smell the flowers? We
:29:19. > :29:20.attack them in all areas. An independent study for Anglo
:29:21. > :29:24.Netherlands because I was involved in the Dutch -- with the Dutch
:29:25. > :29:31.member of Parliament and the description was UK Independence now,
:29:32. > :29:36.nobody has a monopoly on the word independence. I have been fighting
:29:37. > :29:41.for independence since I started in 1994, before I joined UKIP. The
:29:42. > :29:45.party tell me they will stand again at the general election next year.
:29:46. > :29:50.The ironies not lost on them or the major parties of UKIP complaining
:29:51. > :30:00.that a smaller party has been taking votes of them.
:30:01. > :30:03.Joining me now to discuss this story is Gawain Towler.
:30:04. > :30:06.He's the UKIP candidate for the South West region, who failed to get
:30:07. > :30:10.And in our Bristol studios is the victorious Green MEP for
:30:11. > :30:25.How many of the 23,000 votes that were cast for the Independence party
:30:26. > :30:30.were meant for you? Impossible to tell. I want to congratulate Molly
:30:31. > :30:35.for getting elected. They are the breaks. I do not think there is a
:30:36. > :30:47.purpose in complaining about boats that are cast. Do you think you
:30:48. > :30:49.would have one otherwise? Yes, I do. You have to look at the
:30:50. > :30:52.would have one otherwise? Yes, I do. You have to look boats for parties
:30:53. > :30:57.people have not heard of and those with a long tradition that people
:30:58. > :31:04.have heard of. I do not think there is any doubt. If you saw the spoiled
:31:05. > :31:10.ballot papers, the amount of people who had voted at the top and the
:31:11. > :31:16.bottom, most people are not anoraks, they say, they are the people I
:31:17. > :31:31.want. They know what they are after. I think it is at least told. It is
:31:32. > :31:38.said you owe your seat to And Independence Party. It is strange
:31:39. > :31:44.for a man to say he could represent people in the south-west better than
:31:45. > :31:51.me. There has been outpouring of delight that a Green MP has finally
:31:52. > :31:56.been elected. A number of people have been saying they have been
:31:57. > :32:00.voting all their lives and it is the first time they have elected
:32:01. > :32:04.anybody. I am glad to represent them in a significant legislature. What
:32:05. > :32:13.would you say to that? I find it strange. I am perfectly happy for
:32:14. > :32:17.her to be elected. I feel the electoral commission has questions
:32:18. > :32:24.to answer. But, congratulations to Molly. Why do you want an extra seat
:32:25. > :32:30.for the Greens in the European Parliament but your national share
:32:31. > :32:35.of the vote actually fell. We did come under pressure nationally. If
:32:36. > :32:39.he is complaining about the role the election commission said we could
:32:40. > :32:44.stand, the rule we were not happy with was the off, ruling which said
:32:45. > :32:50.we were not a main party. We got significantly less media time and
:32:51. > :32:53.that is why our belt actually fell. Not on the Daily Politics or the
:32:54. > :33:00.that is why our belt actually fell. Sunday Politics, where you were well
:33:01. > :33:09.represented. Was it a problem for UKIP in other parts of the country?
:33:10. > :33:22.Only in London. What do you think happened there? Very much the same.
:33:23. > :33:26.I do not think there is any doubt, the number of people we have had
:33:27. > :33:31.getting in touch saying, I am really sorry, I made a mess, that they
:33:32. > :33:36.voted for the wrong party. They are the breaks. Politics is politics.
:33:37. > :33:43.What I would like to see and what is reasonable, and I hope Molly would
:33:44. > :33:48.agree, there needs to be a reform - a serious reform of the Electoral
:33:49. > :33:52.Commission. There is no appeal process. They say it is not
:33:53. > :33:59.confusing. Lets see if she thinks that. I make it a policy never to
:34:00. > :34:03.agree with UKIP. What is important to note, if you look at the votes
:34:04. > :34:08.and the way the votes fell out and the seats fell out in the
:34:09. > :34:13.south-west, it is difficult for an Electoral Commission to turn boats
:34:14. > :34:34.into seats. UKIP got 33% of the vote and 33% of the seats.
:34:35. > :34:38.right to complain about the amount of seats we have ended up with. So
:34:39. > :34:46.you have complaints about the commission? Not about the commission
:34:47. > :34:50.but I think we have to move towards a proportional system, especially in
:34:51. > :34:57.the general election. We should be looking to have 30 or 40 seats in
:34:58. > :35:01.the national legislator and we need to consider proportional
:35:02. > :35:04.representation for National Election Council do you accept the ballot
:35:05. > :35:11.paper may have a -- may have confused some people. Some people
:35:12. > :35:17.may have been worried about the rights would move of UKIP and the
:35:18. > :35:23.leadership of Nigel Farage and as a consequence he set up a separate
:35:24. > :35:27.party. That is what happens in politics, especially when they are
:35:28. > :35:33.led by demagogues, you see splitting and UKIP need to learn lessons from
:35:34. > :35:37.that. Indeed we have seen splitting by the Greens in Brighton as well.
:35:38. > :35:46.Do you have any legal redress to this? None. The legislation as it is
:35:47. > :35:53.means there is no free dress. But we do feel, and I ask Molly, she says
:35:54. > :36:02.she disagrees with everything, but it at the next election if this
:36:03. > :36:07.party are called Google party, will she then complain if they are
:36:08. > :36:12.excepted? There needs to be some level of appeal for electoral
:36:13. > :36:18.commission decisions. Without that one wonders what is going on. We
:36:19. > :36:23.have an organisation with enormous power and influence which was set up
:36:24. > :36:30.to stop this sort of thing going on as the Liberal Democrats made clear.
:36:31. > :36:34.It has failed in the Tower Hamlets and to have failed over postal
:36:35. > :36:40.votes, it has failed over everything it is supposed to do. Let me go back
:36:41. > :36:45.to the final point, should there be a right of appeal to the rulings of
:36:46. > :36:50.the Electoral Commission? You need to have an authoritative body to
:36:51. > :36:54.make decisions in this area and we have a commission. This is an
:36:55. > :37:00.outbreak of soda loser from UKIP. I am delighted I will be able to
:37:01. > :37:05.represent the people from the south-west. Should there be a right
:37:06. > :37:09.of appeal as a matter of principle? I do not think you should have a
:37:10. > :37:14.right of appeal, no. We will leave it there. You are watching Sunday
:37:15. > :37:19.Politics, we are saying goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us for
:37:20. > :37:47.Sunday Politics in Scotland. Good morning and welcome to
:37:48. > :37:49.Sunday Politics Scotland. The former Home Secretary, Lord
:37:50. > :37:53.Reid, tells a referendum meeting that the measure of your support
:37:54. > :37:57.for Scotland is not waving the flag, but voting No in the country's best
:37:58. > :37:59.interests. Acting smart - the technology
:38:00. > :38:01.that will revolutionise service John Reid, the former Cabinet
:38:02. > :38:13.minister and so-called Labour "big beast", has made his first
:38:14. > :38:16.foray into the referendum debate. Speaking at a Better Together event
:38:17. > :38:19.yesterday, he accused Nationalists of denying there were any risks
:38:20. > :38:22.in voting yes to independence. In a moment, we will speak to him
:38:23. > :38:32.live and ask why he has decided now Tony Blair's troubleshooter. The Man
:38:33. > :38:38.Of Steel who is at the heart of government. Lord Reid is stepping
:38:39. > :38:42.into the referendum campaign. He has given his first speech as part of
:38:43. > :38:48.Better Together, refuting the suggestion that Scots are now are
:38:49. > :38:53.less patriotic. Let us say clearly that no side in this campaign has a
:38:54. > :38:59.monopoly on patches to them. I make that absolutely plain. -- on
:39:00. > :39:05.patriotism. It would be helpful if the First Minister made that equally
:39:06. > :39:11.plain because he is the First Minister of Scotland, not of the
:39:12. > :39:14.Scottish nationalist party. Pro-Union campaigners welcome his
:39:15. > :39:21.involvement. His refutation precedes them. Perhaps it was political skill
:39:22. > :39:24.which gained him plaudits as Home Secretary and defence secretary.
:39:25. > :39:30.However, political opponents arguing for a yes vote think he will not be
:39:31. > :39:38.an asset. John Reid is was a risk when it comes to the SNP in Scottish
:39:39. > :39:45.politics. He is a big beast, yes. He's not like Gordon Brown. I am
:39:46. > :39:51.amazed Gordon Brown has proved so positive. John Reid never plays
:39:52. > :39:57.positive. My worry, if I was in the no campaign, I would wonder if he
:39:58. > :40:00.would put a bit wrong. So a man who has fought plenty of political
:40:01. > :40:06.battles now has another one on his hands, the Better Together fight to
:40:07. > :40:12.save the union. Lord Reid is here now. The papers this morning, you
:40:13. > :40:17.are being criticised by the SNP and others in the Yes Campaign for your
:40:18. > :40:23.remarks about D-Day yesterday. They are saying you try to politicise it,
:40:24. > :40:29.what is your response? My response is it is nonsense. I am glad you
:40:30. > :40:35.mentioned it because the leader article said that the SNP's response
:40:36. > :40:42.on this was not only naive but foolish because if history has no
:40:43. > :40:48.point, then what are we to do with that? The point of history is to
:40:49. > :40:53.inform the future. As we remember, the great things we have done
:40:54. > :40:58.together as a country, the Scots, Welsh, Irish and English, the
:40:59. > :41:02.greatest of those was surely the defeat of fascism, standing alone
:41:03. > :41:09.against fascism and National Socialism and to remember that as an
:41:10. > :41:13.emotional aspect of the United Kingdom's history is perfectly
:41:14. > :41:18.legitimate. We heard you talking about Alex Salmond in the clip. You
:41:19. > :41:23.think people who want to vote no every bit as Scottish as people who
:41:24. > :41:33.want to vote. You said Alex Salmond should publicly intervene and state
:41:34. > :41:36.this. Hang on. Perhaps I have missed something, but I am not sure Alex
:41:37. > :41:43.Salmond has ever suggested that people love said they would vote no
:41:44. > :41:48.is any less Scottish. I did not say he had at that hour atmospherics out
:41:49. > :41:52.there, especially on digital media will stop those who are sending out
:41:53. > :41:58.tweets on the internet which implies that if you do not vote for
:41:59. > :42:02.separation, somehow you are less... Alex Salmond is the First Minister
:42:03. > :42:07.and he is leading this campaign. I want him to recognise the simple
:42:08. > :42:13.fact that it demeans the debate which is a crucial debate to allow
:42:14. > :42:20.the implication of innuendo that people who vote no to keep Scotland
:42:21. > :42:25.in the United Kingdom are somehow less Scottish. I'm saying plainly
:42:26. > :42:29.that is not true. What he wants him to do, make a public statement? That
:42:30. > :42:34.with the help. Along the lines of what you have just said? If it is
:42:35. > :42:41.noncontroversial, that would be helpful. People on the other side of
:42:42. > :42:44.the beastly things about nationalism all the time and nobody calls on Ed
:42:45. > :42:50.Miliband David Cameron to make at public statement. They're always
:42:51. > :42:55.calls to make public statements. You're making an issue about the
:42:56. > :42:59.simple proposition. We should not doubt the sincerity of any Scottish
:43:00. > :43:05.person or anyone who is taking part in this referendum as regards their
:43:06. > :43:09.love of Scotland. I speak as a Scotsman and somebody who has been
:43:10. > :43:16.born, bred and lived in Scotland. Somebody who has committed my life
:43:17. > :43:19.to Scotland. You would like a statement from Alex Salmond seeing
:43:20. > :43:25.which are said? Let me finish. There are many millions of people in this
:43:26. > :43:29.country who not only feel Scottish but think that the interests of
:43:30. > :43:34.Scotland are better protected by remaining inside the United
:43:35. > :43:40.Kingdom. They are every bit as patriotically those who want to vote
:43:41. > :43:46.yes. All right. The sterling rally you spoke at was organised by Better
:43:47. > :43:48.Together, would you be happy to sit sheer platform with the
:43:49. > :43:57.Conservatives on the Better Together Campaign? -- to shape our platform.
:43:58. > :44:02.Yes, I have done so before, for instance over the fight for
:44:03. > :44:08.Ravenscraig. We extended its life for years. I marched to London with
:44:09. > :44:12.people whose views I did not share, including the SNP and Tories of the
:44:13. > :44:18.time to save the Ravenscraig steelworks. If it was important
:44:19. > :44:23.enough to do just steelworks, how much more important is it for the
:44:24. > :44:27.future of our country to rise above petty personal difference and any
:44:28. > :44:34.political differences and fight for the welfare of Scotland. Gordon
:44:35. > :44:40.Brown criticised the way the Coalition Government have handled
:44:41. > :44:45.the currency this week. He said, the wave it currency argument was put by
:44:46. > :44:53.the government was given Scotland versus Britain which means we
:44:54. > :44:58.need... Is the only propaganda which comes from the Conservatives is
:44:59. > :45:02.Britain says no, there is bound to be a reaction in Scotland. I'm not
:45:03. > :45:08.going to comment on what Gordon said. Can Scotland go it alone, yes
:45:09. > :45:15.it can, doesn't have the right to do so? Yes. The question in dispute
:45:16. > :45:18.which people have to decide in September is in what conditions
:45:19. > :45:25.Scotland would be if it went down that road. In my view, in terms of
:45:26. > :45:36.the advantages of the union, economic and Vantage, economic
:45:37. > :45:41.growth, individual ad vantage and growth... In terms of separation,
:45:42. > :45:48.the risks are issued. I think the government has every right to rule
:45:49. > :45:52.any part of the United Kingdom. I am giving you my view on the Better
:45:53. > :45:58.Together Campaign. I am prepared to work with anybody over and above any
:45:59. > :46:02.personal and political differences. I do not think the public are
:46:03. > :46:06.astonished by this. I think the government would like to see
:46:07. > :46:10.politicians put aside personal differences more often. This is such
:46:11. > :46:16.a crucial issue for the future that I think all of us should get
:46:17. > :46:23.together. When Gordon Brown says the trouble with David, -- David Cameron
:46:24. > :46:27.and George Osborne, they put Scotland against Britain, you seem
:46:28. > :46:34.to be with Cameron and Osborne and disagree with Gordon Brown? I am not
:46:35. > :46:40.disagreeing with any of them. I am saying that whenever you rise above
:46:41. > :46:44.party differences and have an issue as crucial as this, you must rise
:46:45. > :46:50.above party differences, of course others will try to rise -- intervene
:46:51. > :46:56.and point out differences. On the question of the future of Scotland,
:46:57. > :47:00.there is a huge degree of agreement among political parties and among
:47:01. > :47:03.people in Scotland. You said yesterday that you did not think
:47:04. > :47:09.Better Together had done everything right. What have we done wrong? I
:47:10. > :47:16.don't think any human being does everything right or any
:47:17. > :47:21.organisation. You actually have something specific in mind? I did
:47:22. > :47:24.not have anything specific in mind. I just would not say we have
:47:25. > :47:31.everything right and we can always improve. Nobody listening to this
:47:32. > :47:36.thinks that is an outstandingly exceptional and two together, it is
:47:37. > :47:42.common sense. Do you think the Yes Campaign will win? I do not think
:47:43. > :47:47.it, but it is all was possible, in politics anything is possible. Over
:47:48. > :47:53.the next 100 days, there will be three issues which will decide this.
:47:54. > :47:58.One is economic and material advantages to being part of the UK,
:47:59. > :48:06.secondly the risk of separation, whether it is pensions, Europe, the
:48:07. > :48:12.corn -- the economy, and suddenly the emotional argument. There are
:48:13. > :48:15.many people who have emotional connections because of the history
:48:16. > :48:21.and culture and what we have done together in Britain. There is an
:48:22. > :48:24.argument of the head and an argument of the heart. Over the next few
:48:25. > :48:33.weeks I think they will come together. Let us say that is a small
:48:34. > :48:38.majority for independence, is that it, completely it. Let us say that
:48:39. > :48:43.you are right, there is no currency union despite what Alex Salmond
:48:44. > :48:48.says, there are problems with Scotland's getting into the European
:48:49. > :48:52.Union in the short-term. One year later and people are saying, we
:48:53. > :49:00.voted for this was the false perspective, will you be saying, I
:49:01. > :49:05.told you so? Is there any way back? I will not be saying that but I do
:49:06. > :49:10.not think there is any way back. Alex Salmond said this morning this
:49:11. > :49:16.is a once in a generation thing, I agree with him. But it is a
:49:17. > :49:24.everything. You would agree with that? Yes, it is a further thing.
:49:25. > :49:30.Certainly in our lifetimes. This is why it is crucial to examine the
:49:31. > :49:34.risks. That is not negative. I know Alex Salmond keeps saying do not ask
:49:35. > :49:40.about the currency, the economy because that is negative. It is not
:49:41. > :49:45.negative. We are brought up to believe look before you leap. A
:49:46. > :49:49.businessman known jazz to have risk assessment for the future. You would
:49:50. > :49:59.never set out on a journey without knowing you had the money and the
:50:00. > :50:05.transport for it. You are making car and transport analogies, what is
:50:06. > :50:12.going on? You suggest you were brought into a appeal to the male
:50:13. > :50:16.working-class voters, I do not know if that is true but they look like
:50:17. > :50:20.they would like to vote yes, so why do you think that is, given that
:50:21. > :50:27.these are people who tend to vote Labour in elections? I am not sure
:50:28. > :50:33.you are correct. The latest definitive Paul was done at the
:50:34. > :50:42.beginning of this week by your competitors television programme, it
:50:43. > :50:48.said 34% for the yes vote. You go it was 37% so there has been a
:50:49. > :50:53.reduction. I am asking specifically about male working-class voters, the
:50:54. > :51:01.other was likely to vote yes, I am dubious as to why you think that is?
:51:02. > :51:06.I think there is equal concern across all classes, both sexes, all
:51:07. > :51:11.parts of the country about the risks. The majority of people across
:51:12. > :51:15.all of those classes and every part of the country who are worried about
:51:16. > :51:19.that and think we had better stay with the best of both worlds which
:51:20. > :51:25.we have at the moment. As Scottish Parliament deciding Scottish affairs
:51:26. > :51:32.and the United Kingdom Parliament. I do not think at this stage you can
:51:33. > :51:37.make that decision for them. Thank you very much indeed.
:51:38. > :51:39.Described as world-leading by academics in San Francisco,
:51:40. > :51:42.a Glasgow-run technology project could revolutionise the way councils
:51:43. > :51:44.across the country manage services. The Glasgow Future Cities Project
:51:45. > :51:47.began in 2012. It uses hi-tech kit to help increase safety
:51:48. > :51:51.on the city's streets and open up council-held data to the public.
:51:52. > :51:54.But what has it achieved so far and how will it continue
:51:55. > :52:21.City life only big-screen. This is Glasgow 's smarter future and it is
:52:22. > :52:30.happening now. Smart city one which integrates technologies and helps
:52:31. > :52:35.best provide its services. A smart city can take some of our older
:52:36. > :52:41.thinking and produces a much more efficient and effective way of
:52:42. > :52:51.delivering services. " fought off competition from 29 other cities to
:52:52. > :52:58.highlight this technology. The using software to map and Jake the
:52:59. > :53:04.movements of people throughout the city. I think people feel a lot
:53:05. > :53:08.safer. The ball can also get around the city better because of the
:53:09. > :53:16.transport improvements. We can also see the likes of health and
:53:17. > :53:23.education benefits. Around one half of the ?24 million budget has been
:53:24. > :53:37.spent on this information centre -- CCTV cameras around the city coming
:53:38. > :53:42.together. But came and safety are not the only focus. The project is
:53:43. > :53:49.the first of its kind to open up data set to the public, sharing
:53:50. > :53:54.anonymous data online. Intended to make the council more transparent
:53:55. > :53:59.and save money on dealing with Freedom of information requests,
:54:00. > :54:02.some see changing the old church of information handling is not without
:54:03. > :54:09.its challenging. The whole project is basically sending shivers down
:54:10. > :54:12.the spine of most local authorities. It is enabling the reformation of
:54:13. > :54:19.things which happen under the bonnet with everyone else. They are trying
:54:20. > :54:26.to engage citizens to be more active to shear for the no boat the city
:54:27. > :54:32.and other citizens. We have got to the stage where we can provide tools
:54:33. > :54:37.and technology to capture technology and integrate it with what the
:54:38. > :54:41.council already holds. The approach has caught the attention of
:54:42. > :54:45.academics around the world. With the government funded period coming to
:54:46. > :54:55.an end, Private investment will be necessary for it to continue.
:54:56. > :55:00.Investment is crucial. We need to continue to raise the money to
:55:01. > :55:07.operate. Cycling will likes of claim on dealing with emergencies, things
:55:08. > :55:10.people the care about. Clearly, things like energy and
:55:11. > :55:21.communications, these are critical services. I think the freeze Future
:55:22. > :55:27.Cities Project is possibly not too helpful, because it makes people
:55:28. > :55:33.think of the science-fiction film. But I think we will see the benefit
:55:34. > :55:38.of this time. Political will and financial backing will be crucial
:55:39. > :55:51.for the next of this project, with the outcome being watched much for
:55:52. > :55:57.the rocky roads in Glasgow itself. Richard, letters look at some of the
:55:58. > :56:03.technology first. How does this work? Let us talk about intelligence
:56:04. > :56:10.streetlights, of which no that there is a fate breaking out under them,
:56:11. > :56:15.just tell it what actually happens? Every lighting column in the EEA is
:56:16. > :56:19.connected to the intimate, essentially. They can communicate
:56:20. > :56:29.with the operations centre that use. They have sensors into them. On the
:56:30. > :56:35.likes of bicycle path is, you can see that when someone is moving
:56:36. > :56:40.along it, the lighting would move up as they approach and in them and
:56:41. > :56:44.hang them, so you are not wasting energy. The question of unusual
:56:45. > :56:52.activity, if you are listening to sound or watching pictures, is there
:56:53. > :56:56.a problem? Is it just people having a good NATO or as something more
:56:57. > :57:03.serious about to develop? You can feed that information in and you can
:57:04. > :57:06.do the lights of raising the lighting any questionable activity,
:57:07. > :57:11.which could be enough to calm a situation down. So, the street lamps
:57:12. > :57:18.would await the police if this continued? Probably not that we
:57:19. > :57:21.directly, but it would let the communications centre that something
:57:22. > :57:25.unusual was going on and should maybe be looked at. Then, an
:57:26. > :57:32.appropriate response could be made. One of the big issues in Glasgow are
:57:33. > :57:36.health outcomes and one of the things which stop people walking and
:57:37. > :57:42.cycling is that they are concerned about their own safety. Things you
:57:43. > :57:48.can do to make people fear more confident using intelligent
:57:49. > :57:51.lighting, it helps the people use the city to greater advantage. It
:57:52. > :57:59.sounds great, but an obvious problem with people having had a view jinx
:58:00. > :58:06.and they are out singing and then the police suddenly all flooding. I
:58:07. > :58:12.do not think it would be as dramatic as that. I think you would raise the
:58:13. > :58:17.level of lighting, which can have a quiet in effect, but also, you would
:58:18. > :58:23.be able to notice there was something needing looking at. You do
:58:24. > :58:28.not have to scramble the police to that. You can look at the situation
:58:29. > :58:35.first. Although Glasgow is the forerunner of this, you have been
:58:36. > :58:38.involved in something similar? Yes, I have been working with local
:58:39. > :58:43.authorities in Scotland on a smaller scale we're we have been putting in
:58:44. > :58:49.technology in the local authorities to provide useful digital services,
:58:50. > :58:58.particularly with Edinburgh and Aberdeen. Sorry, to me, this is
:58:59. > :59:05.gobbledygook. If you are a citizen, what difference do you notice? You
:59:06. > :59:12.are able to use a digital mobile service which can make life in a
:59:13. > :59:20.local basis more useful. So it is an application on your phone. What does
:59:21. > :59:24.it do? Say, is on a simple level, in the likes of Aberdeen, we have a
:59:25. > :59:27.transport application that provides all up to date information about
:59:28. > :59:40.situations with local transport. Also, you may be able to see that
:59:41. > :59:44.there is also an updated service, whereby, if some of the information
:59:45. > :59:48.is wrong, a member of the public could get back in touch and the
:59:49. > :59:54.information within change. It is accessible and useful. How many
:59:55. > :59:57.areas as this now available on? We are working with for local
:59:58. > :00:01.authorities in are working with for local
:00:02. > :00:11.authorities Scotland and also with local authorities in New York. --
:00:12. > :00:16.Europe. The money for the Glasgow project comes to an end in Glasgow
:00:17. > :00:20.comes to an end in August, so what happens after that? That was
:00:21. > :00:27.essentially for the setup and development of the programmes. A key
:00:28. > :00:34.reason behind this is that this is one of four demonstrations around
:00:35. > :00:39.the United Kingdom. This comes out of the study of 29 cities about what
:00:40. > :00:42.they could deliver. If you take what will happen next, we have the
:00:43. > :00:47.Commonwealth Games, we can monitor what is happening, look at all the
:00:48. > :00:53.data from the communications centre. We will be able to see whether the
:00:54. > :00:58.use of city vehicles is more efficient. We will monitor this for
:00:59. > :01:04.some years to come. This has been built into the plans of Glasgow City
:01:05. > :01:10.Council for the future. This is how the imagine the future to be. A lot
:01:11. > :01:16.of people will be watching, I am slightly uneasy about this. We worry
:01:17. > :01:21.about security on the Internet about who might be looking in and getting
:01:22. > :01:25.information about us and know they may be worrying about walking down
:01:26. > :01:31.the street. We are talking about non-contravention none controversial
:01:32. > :01:40.public data. Think how useful data is to your life. I am able to knows
:01:41. > :01:45.whether or not a bus is going to arrive. There is a lot of data
:01:46. > :01:49.information which is really useful to the general public and the more
:01:50. > :01:54.that you use people to support their data to add value to it, the more
:01:55. > :02:00.alive it becomes and the more relevant it becomes. Things like bus
:02:01. > :02:09.timetables, they are no longer timetables in this sensitive printed
:02:10. > :02:11.on pages. You will be able to get up-to-date information to find out
:02:12. > :02:22.what has happened to your bus in the last few minutes? Yes. The London
:02:23. > :02:27.transport network data is very good in that respect, letting people know
:02:28. > :02:34.to within a couple of minutes when the underground is going to arrive.
:02:35. > :02:40.How do you see the development of this in the future? I think we could
:02:41. > :02:44.get people involved in completely transform how people move to work,
:02:45. > :02:46.home shopping works and how we could see big transformations in the likes
:02:47. > :02:49.of health care and health outcomes. You are watching Sunday Politics
:02:50. > :02:51.Scotland. Let us cross now Good afternoon. Tomorrow marks
:02:52. > :02:59.the start of the 100-day countdown On the Andrew Marr Show today
:03:00. > :03:03.First Minister Alex Salmond said referendums on the constitution were
:03:04. > :03:06."once in a political generation" and this was the first democratic,
:03:07. > :03:08.consented opportunity to vote But speaking on this programme,
:03:09. > :03:12.the former Labour cabinet minister Lord Reid said Scots
:03:13. > :03:27.must vote against independence. One person has died in a house fire
:03:28. > :03:31.in Watten on the outskirts of Wick. Fire crews were called to the
:03:32. > :03:34.property before eight o'clock this morning, but when they
:03:35. > :03:38.arrived, the blaze had burnt out. A search is underway in Nairn for a
:03:39. > :03:42.man thought to have been swept away Police were called
:03:43. > :03:46.to the River Nairn, near the harbour of the Highlands town just before
:03:47. > :03:50.eleven o'clock. Two men were in the water, with one attempting to
:03:51. > :03:53.rescue the other, but only one man managed to get out. Search teams
:03:54. > :03:56.are now checking the coastline A list of companies who have
:03:57. > :04:03.been fined by the UK government for failing to pay the minimum wage
:04:04. > :04:06.has been published. In total 25 firms owed workers
:04:07. > :04:09.more than ?43,000 in arrears. Cargilfield School in
:04:10. > :04:11.Edinburgh left a worker almost ?4,000 out of pocket.
:04:12. > :04:13.Ministers say they have quadrupled financial penalties and plan
:04:14. > :04:34.to change the law Good afternoon. There will be some
:04:35. > :04:42.showers this afternoon, but also some brighter weather. The showers
:04:43. > :04:45.could be heavy at times, possibly thundery at times. But I think they
:04:46. > :04:54.will be mainly a feature on the higher ground.
:04:55. > :04:58.It will feel very one today, with high temperatures of 22 degrees
:04:59. > :04:59.Celsius. That is it for now, I will
:05:00. > :05:05.hand you back to Gordon. Thanks, Andrew. Now, in a moment,
:05:06. > :05:08.we will be discussing the big events coming up this week, but first,
:05:09. > :05:24.let us take a look back at The Conservatives unveiled their
:05:25. > :05:25.plans for further revolution in the event of a
:05:26. > :05:33.The Conservatives unveiled their plans for further normal vote in the
:05:34. > :05:42.independence referendum. Women who received injuries after getting
:05:43. > :05:46.breast implants have been petitioning the Scottish Parliament.
:05:47. > :05:51.An enquiry has been launched into what went wrong with the Edinburgh
:05:52. > :05:56.trams project. The United Kingdom has been a next ordinary partner to
:05:57. > :06:08.others. From the outside at least, it looks as if things have worked
:06:09. > :06:12.very well. And the garment been criticised for using figures of
:06:13. > :06:16.legal to criticised for using figures of
:06:17. > :06:21.legal emphasise the stands against independence. The Scottish National
:06:22. > :06:28.party called it childish and the company itself has forced the
:06:29. > :06:35.government to take down the advert because of a breach of copyright.
:06:36. > :06:39.Joining me now are the former Labour MSP Pauline McNeill and Andrew
:06:40. > :06:42.Wilson, who is a newspaper columnist and a former SNP MSP.
:06:43. > :06:54.Joining me now are the former Labour MSP Pauline McNeill and
:06:55. > :07:05.Are you quaking about what John Reid said. I do not think it plays into
:07:06. > :07:11.the modern world to relate D-Day to the Olympics. His second point was a
:07:12. > :07:16.reasonable one, which was that no one has a monopoly on patriotism.
:07:17. > :07:23.You can vote no and failed Scottish and you can celebrate 200 years of
:07:24. > :07:27.British heritage and vote yes. 200,000 Irish soldiers who served in
:07:28. > :07:31.the first wall for I know less British than those who were serving.
:07:32. > :07:37.They were able to become an independent country. -- in the First
:07:38. > :07:47.World War. We should look forward. What do you make of this mini row?
:07:48. > :07:52.Regarding D-Day, John Reid's central point what you can still vote no and
:07:53. > :07:57.BP tree or two. Labour have been firing on all cylinders this week.
:07:58. > :08:08.-- and BP tree or ticks. Rover has been very positive. John Reid has
:08:09. > :08:14.given us his point of view. I do jumping with joy to see John Reid
:08:15. > :08:22.get involved? I think he has an appeal to voters. There was talk
:08:23. > :08:30.that he was brought in for male working-class voters, that makes
:08:31. > :08:36.sense, doesn't it? I'll Labour's big hitters are getting involved. It is
:08:37. > :08:43.100 days or so. There is nothing new for John Reid having a speech at a
:08:44. > :08:48.rally. The central message was that no side can claim patriotism for
:08:49. > :08:54.whichever way you vote. It was an important message. John Reid is
:08:55. > :09:00.appealing to a certain section of voters. People are voting no offer
:09:01. > :09:04.all sorts of reasons. Historical reasons and identity questions are
:09:05. > :09:09.important for the no campaign. Alistair Darling is dealing with the
:09:10. > :09:16.business case and Gordon Brown was dealing with social justice this
:09:17. > :09:22.week. Now, the Sunday Herald said there is 100 days to go until the
:09:23. > :09:27.referendum. Andrew Wilson, your side of the argument needs something
:09:28. > :09:33.transformational, doesn't it? What could that be? I think people are
:09:34. > :09:40.now beginning to make their minds up. There is a host of people who
:09:41. > :09:45.are undecided who are being focused. It is a personal choice. Do we trust
:09:46. > :09:49.ourselves to do a better job? When you look at the history of
:09:50. > :09:53.international endeavour, did we approve of Lord Reid and his
:09:54. > :09:57.government when we went into Iraq for instance? Do you believe the Yes
:09:58. > :10:04.Campaign can win by what you're talking about, by undecided people
:10:05. > :10:08.changing their minds? Do you think the Yes Campaign itself has come up
:10:09. > :10:14.with something different? No, I think the Yes Campaign has to stick
:10:15. > :10:17.to being positive and ambitious for their country. We have an argument
:10:18. > :10:22.which says Scotland cannot and another which says Scotland can. It
:10:23. > :10:28.is about our personal contribution to the future, we will be better
:10:29. > :10:35.placed to govern ourselves. You are lucky if the vote in London reflects
:10:36. > :10:37.the vote in Scotland. This is true of social welfare reform,
:10:38. > :10:44.strengthening the economy, as I said. You would not advise the Yes
:10:45. > :10:50.Campaign to do anything different? No, I think the focus remains as it
:10:51. > :10:57.is. Stay positive. Draw comparisons with the reality of life in Britain
:10:58. > :11:01.as it is just now. It does not feel, from inside Scotland, that
:11:02. > :11:08.everything is OK. That is too much needing fixed. The question is,
:11:09. > :11:12.what's to be fixed, do we fix it ourselves let others do so? Do you
:11:13. > :11:20.think the Better Together Campaign should change? I think Labour have
:11:21. > :11:25.to take a more forward role and that is what you are now seeing for the
:11:26. > :11:31.no campaign. That is what happened. We have 100 days to go. You want
:11:32. > :11:37.more Labour Party, less Better Together? Yes. We have had Gordon
:11:38. > :11:42.Brown this week and that has been very important for Labour voters who
:11:43. > :11:47.are undecided. I think there is recognised by Better Together. You
:11:48. > :11:53.clearly recognise that your side of the argument has a problem with
:11:54. > :11:59.Labour voters. John Reid did not want to recognise that. It is male
:12:00. > :12:02.working-class in certain regions... In the same way that the Yes
:12:03. > :12:10.Campaign has a problem with women voters. They need to address the
:12:11. > :12:17.issue of women voters. The reasons why women might want to vote yes.
:12:18. > :12:20.How do you address that problem about male working-class voters? Do
:12:21. > :12:27.you just get John Reid to go and tell them or what? We need to get
:12:28. > :12:31.down to the nitty-gritty of the argument and the fact that people
:12:32. > :12:37.want to have about the difference between voting yes and no. With a
:12:38. > :12:42.hundred days to go, Jim Sillars said today this campaign will be lost or
:12:43. > :12:47.won on the doorsteps and in the working-class communities. I agree
:12:48. > :12:55.with that. It is also about the presentation of the arguments. Do
:12:56. > :13:01.you agree with that? That it will be won or lost in working-class areas?
:13:02. > :13:05.One of the modern phenomena of politics is that they do not vote in
:13:06. > :13:09.the numbers that they should. If they do in this referendum, if they
:13:10. > :13:15.take this opportunity to vote, it could be transformational. There is
:13:16. > :13:21.a huge opportunity for a lot of people. But is there a particular
:13:22. > :13:26.opportunity in working-class areas for the Yes Campaign? That is what I
:13:27. > :13:32.was trying to see, where the turnout is not what we would want it to be
:13:33. > :13:36.in normal elections, there is a great opportunity for reform and
:13:37. > :13:41.change and making the system of how we govern ourselves better. That is
:13:42. > :13:48.the core message. Either things are done to you or you do them
:13:49. > :13:53.yourselves. Much better to do it yourself in a time of crisis like
:13:54. > :13:55.this. Sorry to stop you. We have to leave it there. That's all from us
:13:56. > :14:02.this week. Goodbye.