:00:36. > :00:37.Good morning and welcome to Sunday Politics Scotland.
:00:38. > :00:42.People have come here for hundreds of years sharing
:00:43. > :00:45.their culture and skills, but would an independent Scotland attract
:00:46. > :00:50.the number of immigrants it needs - and what number should that be?
:00:51. > :00:53.No currency deal, no debt - that's the threat from Scottish
:00:54. > :00:58.But what level of risk does that carry and how
:00:59. > :01:03.We'll be putting those questions live to the First Minister,
:01:04. > :01:11.who's one of our guests today and to Willie Rennie, the leader
:01:12. > :01:16.of the Scottish Liberal Democrats, who's in our Edinburgh studio.
:01:17. > :01:18.Wanting more or less divergent views in the independence debate
:01:19. > :01:21.David Cameron's policy of cutting immigration to under
:01:22. > :01:24.100,000 was said to be in tatters this week when net migration to
:01:25. > :01:31.As the UK government tries to stem the surge, the Scottish Government
:01:32. > :01:35.take the opposite view for an independent Scotland wanting
:01:36. > :01:38.more and more younger workers to support an ageing population.
:01:39. > :01:40.As Andrew Kerr reports, behind the figures there's an age-old story
:01:41. > :02:00.Drolet Hills Italy a later will lead. A brave move further slant
:02:01. > :02:06.stepping out into the world to open a cafe in Glasgow that is still run
:02:07. > :02:13.by his grandson. He started in the shipyards. He worked as a carpenter.
:02:14. > :02:17.From there he built us money together and opened a shop. The
:02:18. > :02:24.Italians were part of Scotland's stories and then other waves of
:02:25. > :02:33.immigrants from Pakistan to Poland. Emigration is a positive thing.
:02:34. > :02:38.Migrants tend to be young, the draw unless public services, public
:02:39. > :02:42.spending, the increased tax receipts. That is a good thing
:02:43. > :02:48.compared to the older population who in fiscal terms require extra
:02:49. > :02:53.spending in terms of pensions, health care and social services.
:02:54. > :02:57.Originally the family here were strangers to this land but they
:02:58. > :03:02.worked hard and became fully integrated, they became part of the
:03:03. > :03:07.fabric of the city. That is the hope of many people who come to the
:03:08. > :03:12.shores, but sadly not the reality. The latest figures worry the UK
:03:13. > :03:22.government. Net migration into the UK totalled 243,000 in the year to
:03:23. > :03:31.March, up from 100 and 73,000 in the previous 12 months. -- 173,000. The
:03:32. > :03:36.UK Government promised to reduce net migration to tens of thousands and
:03:37. > :03:41.that has proved impossible for a number of reasons. That opens it to
:03:42. > :03:45.critique from UKIP and anti-immigrant groups. One of the
:03:46. > :03:50.mistakes made by the Conservative government is that they have
:03:51. > :03:54.responded to that by responding to a populist and symbolic policies
:03:55. > :04:02.designed to restrict access to welfare and health services. A
:04:03. > :04:11.points -based system would be used to attract workers and keep students
:04:12. > :04:17.on a post-IDV 's. They have a net migration total of 24,000. The
:04:18. > :04:21.policy could face the resorts of hurdles. The first one, would
:04:22. > :04:30.Scotland attract that level of immigration. Around 24,000 a year?
:04:31. > :04:39.If it were able to attract that level of attraction, a lot of public
:04:40. > :05:02.opinion? Would it be able to pursue that liberal policy within the rest
:05:03. > :05:14.of the UK and Ireland? Back at the cafe, the coffee is on but there is
:05:15. > :05:15.trouble brewing over the numbers. A keen insider from the Labour years
:05:16. > :05:16.thinks that the figures are over the peak. We will have to get them from
:05:17. > :05:18.outside Europe. What does that mean? It means Africa and Asia. That
:05:19. > :05:19.is what we do not want to let us know. The SNP now it is deeply
:05:20. > :05:28.unpopular amongst working class mail undecided voters. They should have
:05:29. > :05:32.the honesty to tell the truth. He is a nice man, he is also our spin
:05:33. > :05:39.doctor. I know I can tell what he is stretching, the average is just a
:05:40. > :05:44.little bit. This Scottish government is not concealing anything, it is
:05:45. > :05:48.trying to do its best to calculate the number of skilled workers that
:05:49. > :05:55.we need. 1 million is a bit of nonsense. As arguments by all over
:05:56. > :05:59.it as the people who are here in Scotland know who face tough choices
:06:00. > :06:04.on how they want their communities to look and how they want them to
:06:05. > :06:08.survive. In a few moments we will speak to the first Minister Alex
:06:09. > :06:24.Salmond. And Willie Rennie. leader Willie Rennie. But first, the
:06:25. > :06:27.UK's national debt - and what would happen to Scotland's share of it in
:06:28. > :06:30.the event of a Yes vote has been With both the first minister
:06:31. > :06:34.and Finance minister John Swinney insisting Scotland could walk away
:06:35. > :06:37.from its share if the UK government Here's a reminder
:06:38. > :06:48.of what the Finance Secretary had to We support our currency union in
:06:49. > :06:53.which we would take our fair share of the debt which has been built up
:06:54. > :06:55.over time. But if the UK is going to seize the assets then it is welcome
:06:56. > :06:55.to all the liabilities and we will not be having any of them.
:06:56. > :06:56.So what would it mean for us as investors and consumers to walk
:06:57. > :06:58.away from Scotland's share of the UK national debt?
:06:59. > :07:01.Well, in the short term it would save us money - but what impact
:07:02. > :07:03.would it have on international markets and future investors?
:07:04. > :07:06.How would they react to a country walking away from
:07:07. > :07:18.Since Scotland isn't legally responsible for the UK debt if it
:07:19. > :07:27.becomes a new independent state, it would not be in default. How
:07:28. > :07:32.international viewers would see it, there would be a number of issues.
:07:33. > :07:36.Maybe there is a sense of Scotland not living up to its moral
:07:37. > :07:41.obligations to shoulder responsibility for its share of the
:07:42. > :07:47.UK debt, people might consider that a reason to be cautious about future
:07:48. > :07:52.lending. On the other hand, Scotland would be starting with a new sheet.
:07:53. > :07:59.That could mean it would be able to repay any new debt it took on more
:08:00. > :08:02.easily. People might judge it as a better risky.
:08:03. > :08:04.An independent Scotland would undoubtedly result in changes to
:08:05. > :08:09.interest rates, but the extent of it remains largely uncertain.
:08:10. > :08:16.The most likely affect on the bills that the householder would have to
:08:17. > :08:23.pay for mortgage payments and other things, we would be looking of an
:08:24. > :08:27.increase of one percentage point. It could be a bit more or less and that
:08:28. > :08:33.is whether Scotland takes the debt with that. If it walks away with --
:08:34. > :08:40.from the debt, we do not know how much more or maybe even less those
:08:41. > :08:43.costs would change. It is really... It is very likely that the risks
:08:44. > :08:45.would be higher, that is the outcome.
:08:46. > :08:48.The First Minister Alex Salmond was listening to that and joins us
:08:49. > :08:51.from Strichen Community Park this morning.
:08:52. > :09:00.Can I ask you about immigration. These latest figures that we have on
:09:01. > :09:05.immigration to Scotland, your plans are for more than double that. What
:09:06. > :09:09.ever is still you have that people in Scotland are enthusiastic about
:09:10. > :09:16.such a substantial increase in immigration? Can I correct you on to
:09:17. > :09:20.raise. Over the period since Devil loosen the average net migration
:09:21. > :09:27.figure has been 22,000 into Scotland. But also the second
:09:28. > :09:32.correction is that we are talking about net migration and not
:09:33. > :09:41.immigration. There are more people who leave Scotland who are younger.
:09:42. > :09:49.-- devolution. The net migration figure takes into effect the job
:09:50. > :09:54.figures available to those people who are leaving. It is a good thing
:09:55. > :09:59.if people who have skill and ability who want to stay and contribute to
:10:00. > :10:04.our country. The difference between net migration and immigration is
:10:05. > :10:11.very important. I saw a headline saying that Salman and targets
:10:12. > :10:17.24,000 immigration. The journalist who wrote the article would be
:10:18. > :10:24.counted in their terms as part of that immigration figure, they have,
:10:25. > :10:34.from is England and Wales and our in our communities. They are not the
:10:35. > :10:38.same thing as was being suggested. If you do run a more expansive
:10:39. > :10:43.immigration policy which you do want to do, no matter how you define it,
:10:44. > :10:48.obviously the UK Government would have concerns about that. There
:10:49. > :10:52.would be nothing to stop people coming here and driving to London.
:10:53. > :10:57.How would you deal with British Government concerns about that? We
:10:58. > :11:03.are suggesting a points -based system. In terms of continuing
:11:04. > :11:08.employment, like the graduate employment scheme that we used to
:11:09. > :11:13.operate a few years ago until the UK Government stopped us from doing as
:11:14. > :11:20.they can do. If the UK Government thought people could take advantage
:11:21. > :11:23.of that, how would you stop them? Ireland has operated a different
:11:24. > :11:30.immigration system that is part of the common travel area, the Green
:11:31. > :11:35.card system. The Isle of Man operates a different immigration
:11:36. > :11:39.system. It is attached a points -based and to employment, that is
:11:40. > :11:44.the whole point of the system that we are putting forward. Every person
:11:45. > :11:50.watching this, every family watching this will have relatives who have
:11:51. > :11:54.had to go far from Scotland to seek employment in opportunity. We are
:11:55. > :12:01.suggesting a combination of attracting skilled people who can
:12:02. > :12:05.attract much to our communities, and opportunities are young people in
:12:06. > :12:08.our own land which will allow us to be a society that will meet the
:12:09. > :12:14.Democratic challengers meeting every country in western Europe. The UK
:12:15. > :12:17.Government kicks out people with ability and then we have the
:12:18. > :12:23.situation were young Scots have to go to London or elsewhere to find
:12:24. > :12:25.lifetime opportunities. Danny Alexander has written to John
:12:26. > :12:38.Swinney this morning asking the Ennis -- SNP to scrap plans not to
:12:39. > :12:45.take on the UK debt. Will you withdraw that idea? We will
:12:46. > :12:49.certainly not. The answer is in the Treasury note as to the markets on
:12:50. > :12:53.the 13th of January this year which the Chief Secretary is familiar
:12:54. > :12:58.with. The first sentence of which there is in the event of Scottish
:12:59. > :13:04.independence, the continuing UK Government will accept congrats all
:13:05. > :13:17.-- contractual obligations in its name. Danny Alexander, just as the
:13:18. > :13:24.new earlier, he is... He is not calling it a default. Interestingly
:13:25. > :13:33.enough Douglas Alexander did a BBC programme a few days ago and said
:13:34. > :13:36.that five times. Scotland... He says it is irresponsible and that
:13:37. > :13:44.financial markets would take a dim view of it. Whether you call it a
:13:45. > :13:50.default and not does not matter. It does matter because you cannot have
:13:51. > :13:57.a default which is a matter of fact we know is no default. The liability
:13:58. > :14:02.lies with the UK Government. We are putting forward an argument that we
:14:03. > :14:09.should share assets and liabilities. Danny Alexander is suggesting that
:14:10. > :14:21.he waltzed as having access to the financial assets to the Bank of
:14:22. > :14:30.England. 27% of the gilts that have been issued under quantitative
:14:31. > :14:36.easing. If he wants to take all of the assets, then he gets stuck with
:14:37. > :14:44.all of the liabilities. You say you have a sovereign mandate to
:14:45. > :14:53.negotiate the currency here. Can you hear me? We will have a mandate. We
:14:54. > :15:02.had a small technical problem there. We lost you for a second. Hang on a
:15:03. > :15:07.second, you say you have a sovereign mandate to negotiate a currency
:15:08. > :15:15.union if there is a yes vote. The Green party wants an independent
:15:16. > :15:23.currency. Jim Sellers described your plans on the currency as stupid.
:15:24. > :15:30.When he votes yes to independence, why is he giving your man did it --
:15:31. > :15:35.a mandate to negotiate currency. That is why we published a White
:15:36. > :16:03.Paper, that is the mandate... Yes, but you do not agree with an
:16:04. > :16:13.independent currency. Millions of other people are as well. It is
:16:14. > :16:20.supported among the Scottish people. I am dubious about this. If I vote
:16:21. > :16:25.yes to independence and I give you a mandate for a currency union, what
:16:26. > :16:31.else are people in Scotland giving you a mandate for in your white
:16:32. > :16:37.paper? Take taxation, your mandate policy is to cut corporation tax in
:16:38. > :16:44.big business. If there is a yes vote does that mean it is the sovereign
:16:45. > :17:00.will of April in Scotland to cut tax on big business? Now. -- live.
:17:01. > :17:07.Please let me answer the question. There is a common-sense agreement to
:17:08. > :17:14.have a common currency. It will be subject to the will of the Scottish
:17:15. > :17:20.people. The idea is that the SNP have have been seen many times in
:17:21. > :17:25.the White Paper. It will be tested against whatever Willie Rennie has
:17:26. > :17:35.to see. The common-sense agreement will shape the advent of Scottish
:17:36. > :17:39.independence. I think most people watching will appreciate the
:17:40. > :17:48.difference. Thank you very much for that. We heard your golden words but
:17:49. > :17:55.your picture froze a few times. Thank you very much. Listening to
:17:56. > :18:00.that was the reader of the Scottish Liberal Democrats who is in our
:18:01. > :18:05.other studio. Going back to this immigration business, why not
:18:06. > :18:12.devolved powers so that the Scottish Government can do what they want to
:18:13. > :18:16.do? The issue here is whether you can have a common travel agent
:18:17. > :18:23.serving the British Isles with radical immigration differences
:18:24. > :18:28.between the different countries. You could see people coming to Scotland
:18:29. > :18:33.with a more liberal approach and then travelling down south to take
:18:34. > :18:39.up work. You can imagine the rest of the United Kingdom might have a
:18:40. > :18:46.problem. It has not been a problem with the isle of man on the Republic
:18:47. > :18:52.of Ireland. But it could be a problem if you look at the detail.
:18:53. > :18:59.In that case, having more immigration and giving the ageing
:19:00. > :19:03.palatial and in Scotland which your site is almost screaming about, one
:19:04. > :19:11.way is to have more immigrants. If we cannot do that within the UK,
:19:12. > :19:15.isn't that a good reason to be independent and have a completely
:19:16. > :19:21.separate immigration policy? The beauty of the United Kingdom is a
:19:22. > :19:28.broad population with strong working shoulders to support the economy. I
:19:29. > :19:35.think that is a good reason we should say no to independence. What
:19:36. > :19:42.we can do is stick with the UK and have that security for the future.
:19:43. > :19:48.If Scotland does become independent what do you think it's currency
:19:49. > :19:54.should be? That is an issue for Alex Salmond to spell out. Now, you are
:19:55. > :20:00.the leader of the Lib Dems and that I would have thought as a major
:20:01. > :20:09.political party you might have some idea what you would be advocating in
:20:10. > :20:12.two weeks time. I would pick from a range of tenable options. Alex
:20:13. > :20:22.Salmond is not spelling out the consequences. The cutting edge of
:20:23. > :20:27.the Lib Dems is moved to pick? Yes, if we look at the options presented
:20:28. > :20:33.to people it would be quite Draconian. You would have impacts on
:20:34. > :20:41.businesses, being able to support the leaders of the economy. These
:20:42. > :20:45.would be quite dramatic. So you don't know? I tell you what I know,
:20:46. > :20:53.I know we are Better Together in the United Kingdom. So, if there is a
:20:54. > :20:58.yes vote would you advocate a currency union? It is Alex Salmond
:20:59. > :21:06.that is proposing to put up barriers. If your side lose the
:21:07. > :21:13.referendum what will you argue? A currency union? What I will argue
:21:14. > :21:18.for right now, forgive me, this is what I am arguing for in this
:21:19. > :21:25.referendum, it is for the United Kingdom to stay together. You were
:21:26. > :21:30.leading me down the garden path there, I thought you were going to
:21:31. > :21:38.ask the question! What exactly is your evidence for the UK debt? The
:21:39. > :21:45.United Kingdom has never defaulted on its debt. That is widely Kingdom
:21:46. > :21:51.has credibility across the globe. Scotland is part of that, we have a
:21:52. > :21:56.good reputation for sound money. If, on the first day of independence, we
:21:57. > :22:01.were to walk away from our fears she of debt that would trash our
:22:02. > :22:15.reputation across the globe. -- their share. If it is walking away
:22:16. > :22:20.from ?100 billion of UK debt which it could then put into a
:22:21. > :22:31.stabilisation fund to deal with any problems of the sterilisation of the
:22:32. > :22:37.currency, then it would be saving. That is extraordinary, that they
:22:38. > :22:42.would be prepared to walk away from the Hundred years reputation of
:22:43. > :22:47.sound money for that. Crawford Beveridge set out quite clearly that
:22:48. > :22:53.if it smells like a default and looks like a default it is the
:22:54. > :23:00.default. I would not want an independent Scotland to start off by
:23:01. > :23:06.defaulting on its debt. Householders across Scotland would resent that.
:23:07. > :23:11.If you look at mortgage costs, they build everyone pays every single
:23:12. > :23:17.day, the cost would go up. This is astonishing. We are using sterling
:23:18. > :23:22.but we are not part of the formal currency union and we have walked
:23:23. > :23:28.away from UK debt, it is not clear to me why the cost of the car loan
:23:29. > :23:35.would go up? Because the reputation of an independent Scotland... There
:23:36. > :23:39.may be an issue for Scotland borrowing money but why would
:23:40. > :23:49.Barclays bank or RBS put the cost of the car loan up? People who were
:23:50. > :23:52.investing in Scotland would charge us more which would cost government
:23:53. > :24:01.more and individuals more as a result. That would be the cost, the
:24:02. > :24:05.price of this. I understand the cost of government debt, you may or may
:24:06. > :24:13.not be right, fiscal expansion might charge lots of money but why would
:24:14. > :24:20.RBS timely -- suddenly turned round to people and say your mortgage is
:24:21. > :24:27.going up? Because the ability of people in Scotland to GP that debt
:24:28. > :24:39.would be diminished. -- repay that debt. It is quite straightforward.
:24:40. > :24:47.You still have not explained why the mortgage would go up. Because the
:24:48. > :24:50.cost of borrowing would go up. But the cost of borrowing from big
:24:51. > :24:56.international banks would be exactly the same as before. The cost would
:24:57. > :25:03.go up, that is what the experts tell us. The other thing you seem unclear
:25:04. > :25:09.about is the argument that it financial institutions would not be
:25:10. > :25:17.bailed out but, on the assumption that RBS for example, where to
:25:18. > :25:30.become a UK company saw it were regulated by the UK, it is not clear
:25:31. > :25:35.why that is a problem. The majority of customers would not be in
:25:36. > :25:40.Scotland but elsewhere. They would want to operate in a financial
:25:41. > :25:46.regime that was consistent with the customers. It would be a gradual
:25:47. > :25:51.change over time but perhaps more dramatic in the short-term. This is
:25:52. > :25:56.what the yes people mean when they say you are just negative all the
:25:57. > :26:00.time. If there was a formal currency union and no lender of last resort
:26:01. > :26:06.one of the big arguments is the problem with the banks is the know
:26:07. > :26:13.if they mess up that governments will bail them out. That would not
:26:14. > :26:17.exist under sterling eyes Asian with financial institutions in Scotland,
:26:18. > :26:20.they would have to build up there on reserves and be able to take either
:26:21. > :26:28.of themselves if they got into trouble. That is arguably a good
:26:29. > :26:31.thing. That was argued last week but it was roundly criticised because it
:26:32. > :26:37.would mean a significant number of job losses here in Scotland. These
:26:38. > :26:41.companies want the security of a country behind them. The financial
:26:42. > :26:46.sector in Scotland is 12 times the size of our economy which is way too
:26:47. > :26:52.big for us to support in a time of crisis. Arguably lots of activities
:26:53. > :27:00.which have never been anywhere near Scotland but are in fact based in
:27:01. > :27:05.London. That is my point. The jobs would gradually drift southwards
:27:06. > :27:13.over time, even more. There are functions of RBS here in Scotland.
:27:14. > :27:19.There would be companies wanting to take advantage of the new regime. I
:27:20. > :27:23.do not think it is negative to ask serious questions about these
:27:24. > :27:31.chaotic plans that Alex Salmond has put forward. That is doing my duty
:27:32. > :27:36.as a Scot. I do not want to end up with a chaotic financial system. I
:27:37. > :27:41.would be letting down Scots if I failed to answer these questions, it
:27:42. > :27:47.is not negative, it is doing my duty. We have to leave it there,
:27:48. > :27:55.thank you for joining us. Now let's cross for the news. Good afternoon.
:27:56. > :28:00.The two sides in the independence debate have been discussing the
:28:01. > :28:05.future of immigration. Alex Salmond said he wanted a combination of
:28:06. > :28:11.attracting skilled people and the opportunity of keeping youngsters
:28:12. > :28:17.here. Willie Rennie raised concerns about how the Common travel area
:28:18. > :28:21.would work. Sunbed users are still at risk of skin cancer even if they
:28:22. > :28:30.do not burn according to researchers. It increases the risk
:28:31. > :28:35.of developing a common cancer is by repeated planning rather than
:28:36. > :28:41.burning. One fifth of skin cancers are said to be caused in that way.
:28:42. > :28:47.Health professionals are to step up the attempt to see minimum pricing
:28:48. > :28:51.for alcohol introduced here. A minimum unit price was passed at
:28:52. > :29:02.Holyrood two years ago but it has pleased -- faced legal challenges
:29:03. > :29:08.from alcohol producers. Now a look at the weather forecast. Hello, it
:29:09. > :29:14.is looking like a lovely day ahead for many of us with an abundance of
:29:15. > :29:21.sunshine on the cards and a load of dry weather as well. Plenty
:29:22. > :29:26.sunshine, especially further east, in the West it will start to cloud
:29:27. > :29:32.over with wet and windy weather by the end of the day. Temperatures
:29:33. > :29:37.around 16 Celsius, up to 19 further east. That is it for now. Back to
:29:38. > :29:42.Gordon. Now in a moment, we'll be discussing
:29:43. > :29:46.the big events coming up this week. But first, let's take a look back
:29:47. > :29:59.at the week that was The referendum campaign leaders went
:30:00. > :30:06.head-to-head in a BBC television debate. They both claim the momentum
:30:07. > :30:09.is with them but polls suggest that most felt the first Minister
:30:10. > :30:17.performed better. The first referendum votes were cast after
:30:18. > :30:23.postal votes were coming back. People were warned not to take
:30:24. > :30:28.photographs of the papers to post them online to maintain the
:30:29. > :30:34.integrity of the voting process. 130 businesspeople said leaving the UK
:30:35. > :30:43.would threaten businesses and jobs. The Labour MP Jim Murphy suspended
:30:44. > :30:48.his tour because of what he described as coordinated abuse by
:30:49. > :30:53.voters of independence. The yes campaign said it condemned all forms
:30:54. > :30:55.of offensive behaviour. It's time to have a look at what's
:30:56. > :31:06.happening in the week ahead. I'm joined by the writer
:31:07. > :31:08.and commentator David Torrance, and by Kevin McKenna, who is
:31:09. > :31:26.a columnist for the Observer. I think Kevin would say he wins the
:31:27. > :31:35.fashion stakes. That was all the rage in 1966. Maybe Kevin has come
:31:36. > :31:47.from church. What did you make of what you heard about immigration. I
:31:48. > :31:51.do not think it is an issue in this campaign but maybe you think it is.
:31:52. > :31:54.I think it is an important issue. It is important in terms of what we
:31:55. > :31:58.want Scotland to looks like whether it is a yes or no vote. We a
:31:59. > :32:06.population that is ageing more quickly than the rest of the UK. We
:32:07. > :32:12.do need skilled immigration. We also have a moral responsibility to look
:32:13. > :32:18.at depressed cultures economies to see what we can do to help them and
:32:19. > :32:23.also to take something of their skills. David Torrence, the problem
:32:24. > :32:27.with this for the first Minister is presumably, as I understand that
:32:28. > :32:49.every poll that has been done on this shows that immigration --
:32:50. > :32:55.attitudes to immigration, is very heated. There is a stronger argument
:32:56. > :33:05.that I have heard on a points -based system, pointing out that Ireland
:33:06. > :33:09.can do that. The point was you cannot have immigrants that are
:33:10. > :33:16.coming in from over the Channel in France. This would controlled thing.
:33:17. > :33:21.A much stronger argument. Where I think he is off is that by becoming
:33:22. > :33:28.independent that Scots will no longer leave Scotland. London is a
:33:29. > :33:31.global city and draws talent from several independent countries and
:33:32. > :33:41.will continue to do sleep. What do you think of this sovereign mandate
:33:42. > :33:47.for the currency union. It is a bit incoherent. The idea of having a
:33:48. > :33:52.mandate to impose policy within your own five Dom makes sense. The idea
:33:53. > :34:01.that you end up with a mandate to impose policy on another sovereign
:34:02. > :34:08.country... I think you made that difference clear. If it is a yes
:34:09. > :34:15.vote, it has been a popular mandate for him to negotiate over the next
:34:16. > :34:18.18 months that will follow and radius issues. It has been declared
:34:19. > :34:22.that one bit of the White Paper is the sovereign will of the Scottish
:34:23. > :34:29.people should be vote yes, despite the fact that many people on the yes
:34:30. > :34:34.I do not agree with the currency. I think those who have read the White
:34:35. > :34:38.Paper know enough about how politics is conducted. You do not get
:34:39. > :34:43.absolutely everything that you want are asked or. I think a lot of
:34:44. > :34:49.people will treat the 18 months following a possible Yes vote as a
:34:50. > :34:53.buffer zone. Yes, these are all the things that we understand are in the
:34:54. > :34:58.White Paper that our priorities, but I don't think anyone will be
:34:59. > :35:02.surprised that if at the end of the 18 months of negotiating, a lot of
:35:03. > :35:07.them will remain. Let's move on to what is happening next week. West
:35:08. > :35:12.Minister is back in session and it will no doubt be discussing the
:35:13. > :35:21.developing international situations. In the Telegraph, we can
:35:22. > :35:27.see it there, Platinum -- Vladimir Putin on the verge of war over
:35:28. > :35:39.Ukraine. And we have also got a story in the Daily Mail. This is
:35:40. > :35:47.comments from the former deputy NATO reader. Are we facing an alarming
:35:48. > :35:51.international situation at the moment? Is this alarming,
:35:52. > :36:00.particularly in Ukraine and the middle east? In all levels it is
:36:01. > :36:06.alarming. Whether the UK will get involved is another matter. It puts
:36:07. > :36:12.the Scottish referendum in to some degree of context. It is stuff that
:36:13. > :36:20.we consider important, it is not a matter of life and death as it is in
:36:21. > :36:24.other areas. The Telegraph are quoting Vladimir Putin on the verge
:36:25. > :36:30.of war with Europe. This is come from leaders of the EU. People might
:36:31. > :36:37.get worried. RB men to take that literally? There is an awful lot of
:36:38. > :36:41.rhetoric, there has been ever since the current escalation of the
:36:42. > :36:50.situation in the European developed... Vladimir Putin is seen
:36:51. > :36:53.as a bogeyman. If it was not Russia and collective memories of the Cold
:36:54. > :37:02.War, I don't think the rhetoric would just be as excitable. Putin
:37:03. > :37:06.himself has become something that represents a lot of negatives in the
:37:07. > :37:11.collective memory of European and British politicians and he knows
:37:12. > :37:16.that. Anti-riot ships that are only takes advantage of it any knows that
:37:17. > :37:29.certain types of freeze all a jig and those in the EU were dealing
:37:30. > :37:38.with -- he knows there is a fear. Do you believe, this is very dramatic,
:37:39. > :37:43.putting it on the verge of war with Europe. Do you think behind the
:37:44. > :37:49.rhetoric there is any possibility whatsoever that the European union
:37:50. > :37:57.or indeed NATO wants to get merit are involved -- millet had only
:37:58. > :38:02.involved? The airline incident, the plane being brought down would have
:38:03. > :38:06.been the flash point, the key moment for action. I think it seems
:38:07. > :38:12.unlikely that it will follow any time soon. A lot of this is
:38:13. > :38:22.predominantly rhetorical. Quickly on NATO, a story in the Independent
:38:23. > :38:29.Scotland online. The idea that you can apply to be part of a nuclear
:38:30. > :38:36.Alliance while getting rid of the key elements of that. Not entirely
:38:37. > :38:40.sure of where this is coming from. This is something that I would have
:38:41. > :38:49.expected to hear earlier in the campaign. I am surprised it has
:38:50. > :38:55.taken so long for this fear. It is not officially NATO. All right,
:38:56. > :38:59.thank you both very much. Thank you from all of us on the programme.
:39:00. > :39:05.Back at the same time next week. Goodbye.