:00:34. > :00:39.As evidence grows that the Russian passenger jet downed over
:00:40. > :00:43.Egypt's Sinai desert last weekend was the target of
:00:44. > :00:47.a terrorist attack, we look at how Moscow and the West will respond.
:00:48. > :00:51.We'll have the latest from Egypt and Russia, and ask are we now
:00:52. > :00:54.on the brink of an even more dangerous phase of Islamist
:00:55. > :01:01.David Cameron says he's ready to lead Britain out of the EU
:01:02. > :01:04.if he doesn't get what he wants from renegotiation,
:01:05. > :01:09.Will his list of demands result in a good deal or turn out to be
:01:10. > :01:17.And on Sunday Politics Scotland, The Scotland Bill is due to finish
:01:18. > :01:27.We'll be asking the Finance Secretary John Swinney.
:01:28. > :01:33.Speed and as a nation embarked on a Remembrance Sunday, we look at the
:01:34. > :01:46.support of legends receive once they leave the Armed Forces.
:01:47. > :01:49.the most anticipated TV event since the John Lewis Christmas advert!
:01:50. > :01:51.It's Nick Watt, Polly Toynbee and Janan Ganesh.
:01:52. > :01:54.We're not sure if they'll make you start thinking
:01:55. > :01:59.But they may well bring a tear to your eye.
:02:00. > :02:02.So, this week, we'll see what many eurosceptics and europhiles have
:02:03. > :02:04.been waiting for with all the excitement of a child thinking about
:02:05. > :02:08.their Christmas wish list, even though it's only early November.
:02:09. > :02:12.David Cameron will publish his letter to the President of the
:02:13. > :02:14.European Council setting out the "broad outlines" of what he wants
:02:15. > :02:17.to achieve from his renegotiation of Britain's EU membership.
:02:18. > :02:21.The upfront briefing from Ten Downing Street says that
:02:22. > :02:24.he'll challenge both the in and out campaigns to be more
:02:25. > :02:29.But, to assuage the eurosceptic majority in his party he'll use his
:02:30. > :02:35.strongest language yet to say that if he doesn't get what he wants,
:02:36. > :02:38.Whether they believe him is another matter.
:02:39. > :02:41.This is what Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond has to say this
:02:42. > :02:46.The British people will not be fobbed off with a set of cosmetic
:02:47. > :02:50.This is about fundamental change in the direction of travel in the
:02:51. > :02:55.European Union, to make sure that it works for Britain, and that it is
:02:56. > :02:59.an effective organisation for all the citizens of Europe, driving our
:03:00. > :03:03.prosperity and competitiveness in the 21st century.
:03:04. > :03:11.If we cannot do that, then we will not be able to win a referendum.
:03:12. > :03:17.That was the Foreign Secretary. Janan Ganesh, is anything happening?
:03:18. > :03:21.There is a problem the David Cameron, the things he is most
:03:22. > :03:24.likely to get from his renegotiation are not the things that will move
:03:25. > :03:28.the average voter, so what he is likely to get our protections for
:03:29. > :03:31.non-euro countries within the EU, and that will be very technical
:03:32. > :03:38.institutional stuff, double majority voting and so forth. That is doable,
:03:39. > :03:42.the Germans don't want a fragmented EU in terms of the currency. Does
:03:43. > :03:47.your average undecided voter decide on the basis of that? I think they
:03:48. > :03:50.are more moved by free movement and immigration, maybe even economic
:03:51. > :03:55.regulation, so the things he is most likely to get may not help him in a
:03:56. > :03:59.year or 18 months' time when he is campaigning to win a referendum. You
:04:00. > :04:01.get the feeling he has delayed telling us what he is really looking
:04:02. > :04:07.for because he is bound to disappoint. Indeed, and he has to be
:04:08. > :04:12.very careful to ask for things he can get. Three of the main things he
:04:13. > :04:16.can get, but I don't think he will get the four years' delay for in
:04:17. > :04:20.work benefits, it is discriminatory and goes against the basic
:04:21. > :04:24.principles and yet he is asking again. We can only hope he has had a
:04:25. > :04:27.nod and a wink from 27 other countries that they will agree to
:04:28. > :04:33.that because if he fails to get it, it will agree to that because if he
:04:34. > :04:40.fails to get it, it'll renegotiation and it is a good package, so we will
:04:41. > :04:46.hope it is not a cavalier piece of speaking. What is your take? Philip
:04:47. > :04:48.Hammond did say some of the changes would be introduced through domestic
:04:49. > :04:57.legislation would be introduced through domestic
:04:58. > :04:59.codify some recent would be introduced through domestic
:05:00. > :05:04.judgments that have gone in favour of the UK and not embedded in treaty
:05:05. > :05:05.change, but the hard language about treaty change, the reason they are
:05:06. > :05:12.standing soaked up, is George treaty change, the reason they are
:05:13. > :05:17.he is going to get a treaty treaty change, the reason they are
:05:18. > :05:22.outs and Britain will get an opt out from an ever closer union. George
:05:23. > :05:25.Osborne's the is that the protection for the Euro outs is the most
:05:26. > :05:28.important thing he can get the benefit of Britain but he knows
:05:29. > :05:32.politically the campaign, the most important thing he has to get those
:05:33. > :05:35.migrant benefit restrictions. We will see what he says on Tuesday,
:05:36. > :05:35.that is when the speech is being made.
:05:36. > :05:39.A senior US government official is quoted today by CNN saying they are
:05:40. > :05:41."99.9% certain" that the 224 passengers aboard the Russian jet
:05:42. > :05:44.which crashed into the Sinai Desert last Saturday were the victims
:05:45. > :05:50.That's the view in London as well as Washington and now,
:05:51. > :06:03.draws up plans to repatriate 80,000 of its holidaymakers from various
:06:04. > :06:07.locations in Egypt, after it suspended all flights there,
:06:08. > :06:15.following in the wake of Britain's decision to suspend flights from
:06:16. > :06:27.The downing of the flight is a tragedy for those who lost
:06:28. > :06:31.than al-Qaeda, as a terrorist group capable of hitting targets far from
:06:32. > :06:49.In a moment, we will speak to Steve Rosenberg in St Petersburg. First,
:06:50. > :06:58.we are Rosenberg in St Petersburg. First,
:06:59. > :07:00.now? The British were the first to stop flights, the Americans followed
:07:01. > :07:07.another flights to Egypt except to get
:07:08. > :07:10.people out, is it beginning to trouble the Cairo Government? The
:07:11. > :07:14.Egyptian Government seems to be in a very tight situation, from an
:07:15. > :07:18.economic perspective. very tight situation, from an
:07:19. > :07:23.very important to the economy, it is a lifeline to the Egyptian economy,
:07:24. > :07:26.which is already in a bad shape and the tourism industry depends mainly
:07:27. > :07:32.on Russia and Britain, so the fact that no more to wrists, from Russia
:07:33. > :07:38.or Britain, will be coming to Egypt is a huge blow to tourism here and
:07:39. > :07:41.Egypt needs foreign currency and it depends on tourist spot that mainly,
:07:42. > :07:45.so it is a major blow to the industry and put the Government in a
:07:46. > :07:49.tight situation. On the other hand, the way the Egyptians have handled
:07:50. > :07:53.security in Sharm el-Sheikh airport was a matter of great concern and
:07:54. > :07:58.criticism from different countries around the world, even the tourists
:07:59. > :08:02.I have spoken to, they told us when they first arrived, the security
:08:03. > :08:05.measures were a mess, so now the measures have been tightened, some
:08:06. > :08:17.to wrists I spoke to yesterday told me it makes them feel better -- some
:08:18. > :08:22.to tourist. If the President Sese Government is feeling beleaguered in
:08:23. > :08:28.Cairo and will take another economic hit because of the tourism, can we
:08:29. > :08:34.expect further crackdown on the Sinai province terrorist groups? It
:08:35. > :08:38.is hard to tell at the moment, but the Sinai military operation has
:08:39. > :08:45.been going on for nearly two years now and every now and then, we hear
:08:46. > :08:51.about major attacks carried by mainly the IS affiliated group
:08:52. > :08:55.called the Sinai province, so the fact that the group have operated in
:08:56. > :08:59.Sinai the nearly two years, it seems the insurgency group is still
:09:00. > :09:03.gaining momentum and if it happens to be true they managed to smuggle a
:09:04. > :09:08.bomb on board the plane, it is a major blow to the security
:09:09. > :09:13.operators. Sally Nabil, thank you. Let's go to St Petersburg, we are
:09:14. > :09:17.joined by Steve Rosenberg. Is there any indication yet of how, assuming
:09:18. > :09:23.that it is shown to be a terrorist attack, any indication of how
:09:24. > :09:28.Vladimir Putin is going to respond? No, not yet. I think it is important
:09:29. > :09:33.to remember that despite the growing suspicion that this was a bomb, the
:09:34. > :09:38.official Kremlin line still is that it is keeping an open mind about
:09:39. > :09:43.this disaster, it is treating all theories equally and the Kremlin
:09:44. > :09:48.says the fact that it has suspended all flights to Egypt does not mean
:09:49. > :09:53.it favours the terror theory over any other. Having said that, if it
:09:54. > :09:57.is proven to be a bomb, then judging by the way President Putin has
:09:58. > :10:03.responded in the past to terror attacks, I think we can expect a
:10:04. > :10:06.forceful response from him. How is the domestic politics? I know it is
:10:07. > :10:11.hard to tell, because the media is so controlled by the Kremlin, but is
:10:12. > :10:16.this an opportunity for Mr Putin to further strengthen his position with
:10:17. > :10:20.a tougher crackdown, or is there their fear in the Kremlin that
:10:21. > :10:25.having casualties as a result of his war on terror will not make him very
:10:26. > :10:30.popular? It is an interesting question. I remember back in 2004,
:10:31. > :10:34.when there was a string of terror attacks on Russian soil, there were
:10:35. > :10:43.bombs in the Moscow Metro, two planes bombed out of the sky and the
:10:44. > :10:47.year ended with the school siege in Beslan, where 330 people were
:10:48. > :10:50.killed. None of that seemed to dent Vladimir Putin's popularity. Quite
:10:51. > :10:56.the opposite, he used it to strengthen the power of the Kremlin.
:10:57. > :11:00.Now, you could argue that if this doesn't prove to have been a bomb,
:11:01. > :11:03.that could undermine the narrative that the Kremlin has been pushing
:11:04. > :11:08.domestically about its military operation in Syria. In other words,
:11:09. > :11:15.Russia has been saying it has been carrying out air strikes in Syria to
:11:16. > :11:18.boost national security in Russia, to destroy terrorists so they
:11:19. > :11:22.couldn't come to Russia and kill people there, that narrative will be
:11:23. > :11:26.seriously undermined. But whether Russians would connect the dots and
:11:27. > :11:30.say, President Putin said we would be safer but we clearly are not, I
:11:31. > :11:34.don't think that would happen, because the Kremlin control so
:11:35. > :11:39.tightly the media here, particularly television, and television is the
:11:40. > :11:43.key to influencing public opinion. So if the Kremlin was to change the
:11:44. > :11:46.narrative to something more like we have been attacked, we are the
:11:47. > :11:50.victims of terror, we need to carry on our battle against international
:11:51. > :11:53.terrorism, I think the Russian public would support that and from
:11:54. > :11:58.the people I have spoken to on the streets of St Petersburg this
:11:59. > :12:01.morning, I haven't heard a word of criticism of Vladimir Putin. Most
:12:02. > :12:05.people have said to me, I understand Russia is at threat of terror
:12:06. > :12:08.attacks and they don't seem to connect what may have happened to
:12:09. > :12:12.the Russian air bus with Russia's military operation in Syria. Steve
:12:13. > :12:16.Rosenberg in St Petersburg. We're joined now by the foreign
:12:17. > :12:18.affairs analyst Tim Marshall, Dr Domitilla Sagramoso,
:12:19. > :12:20.an expert in Russian security And joining us from our Plymouth
:12:21. > :12:23.studio is the He sits on the
:12:24. > :12:36.Commons Defence Committee, and is Tim Marshall, if, as the
:12:37. > :12:41.intelligence suggests, this attack was coordinated with Islamic State
:12:42. > :12:46.leaders in Iraq, and its affiliates in the Sinai called soon I
:12:47. > :12:52.province, it means Islamic State has the capability to plot mass casualty
:12:53. > :12:55.attacks outside of Syria and Iraq -- called Sinai province. I think in
:12:56. > :12:58.the future, they will be able to do it globally and this is the first
:12:59. > :13:05.sign of them doing it outside of the countries they operate in. The head
:13:06. > :13:07.of the FSB came back the lead met Putin on Friday and Putin
:13:08. > :13:11.immediately set ground the planes, Putin on Friday and Putin
:13:12. > :13:16.that shows us what they truly believe. Britain is third, it is
:13:17. > :13:29.that shows us what they truly Russia and Germany and France in the
:13:30. > :13:32.amount of tourists there. President Sisi has been to Moscow three times
:13:33. > :13:37.since he was elected. He is trying to pull Russia back from America. So
:13:38. > :13:42.it is difficult for the Egyptians and Russians to come back out to
:13:43. > :13:45.openly unsaved. So to come back to your original point, I think it is
:13:46. > :13:52.pretty clear that the Isis affiliate in Sinai swore allegiance to Isis in
:13:53. > :13:58.Iraq. They are under a lot of pressure from the Russians, 20% of
:13:59. > :14:02.the bombing was against Syria. They have told their affiliate in the
:14:03. > :14:05.Sinai, you are the ones who can do it from you do the operation, they
:14:06. > :14:06.have killed the Russians and the Russians have to respond, I agree
:14:07. > :14:13.with what the Moscow correspondent Russians have to respond, I agree
:14:14. > :14:20.said, Putin does not respond -- not not respond, Putin responds and
:14:21. > :14:22.response with violence. Johnny Mercer, if
:14:23. > :14:26.response with violence. Johnny true and it was a planned attack by
:14:27. > :14:31.Islamic State, it takes IS into what is called full spectrum terrorist
:14:32. > :14:37.activity and it is better financed than Al-Qaeda, it is better
:14:38. > :14:42.resourced and organised in Syria and Iraq and Osama Bin Laden ever was
:14:43. > :14:44.sitting in a cave in Afghanistan, this takes the global war on
:14:45. > :14:55.terrorism to a whole new level. This threat is existential. You can
:14:56. > :15:00.see, if this is proved to be something that has originated from
:15:01. > :15:05.so-called Islamic State, you can see their strategic region. This is why
:15:06. > :15:09.the Prime Minister has been going on about this for so long. We have to
:15:10. > :15:11.the Prime Minister has been going on State because the threat will only
:15:12. > :15:15.get closer. We see State because the threat will only
:15:16. > :15:19.outpouring of humanity with that little boy washed up on a beach. We
:15:20. > :15:24.outpouring of humanity with that have had 30 of our own terrorists
:15:25. > :15:28.massacred in Tunisia. I understand. Is the British
:15:29. > :15:31.response which the Prime Minister has not managed to get Pollard to
:15:32. > :15:34.agree to on has not managed to get Pollard to
:15:35. > :15:35.jets into Syria, is that really has not managed to get Pollard to
:15:36. > :15:40.adequate given what you have called has not managed to get Pollard to
:15:41. > :15:48.We need to do what we are question of how much manpower or
:15:49. > :15:51.machinery we are sending but the effect we can achieve on the ground.
:15:52. > :15:52.machinery we are sending but the We have been asked to provide those
:15:53. > :15:57.Tornado jets because they have a specific tactical and technical
:15:58. > :16:00.capability to the coalition are asked when it comes to dynamic
:16:01. > :16:04.targeting within Syria. We asked when it comes to dynamic
:16:05. > :16:08.stand up to that and do our duty, and have the stomach for the fight.
:16:09. > :16:12.The idea we are asking people to do some mass bombing in Syria with no
:16:13. > :16:14.strategy, some mass bombing in Syria with no
:16:15. > :16:23.We should have got past this by now. some mass bombing in Syria with no
:16:24. > :16:26.Mr Putin? To a certain extent, this has
:16:27. > :16:30.Mr Putin? brought the ball back to Russia. I
:16:31. > :16:35.would disagree with what the correspondent was saying, that the
:16:36. > :16:40.Russians will not be particularly affected and critical of Mr Putin's
:16:41. > :16:44.paper in the Middle East. On the one hand they understand, that is their
:16:45. > :16:54.argument that the President Assad regime needed to be faced for stock
:16:55. > :16:59.because it had fallen, then jihadists groups in Damascus and
:17:00. > :17:03.western parts of the country weather and they understand that.
:17:04. > :17:08.On the other hand, they will put brakes to any attempt to send ground
:17:09. > :17:15.troops which I think they are not planning to do either. I imagine he
:17:16. > :17:19.will have another response to the bombing.
:17:20. > :17:23.He hasn't done much, Tim Marshall. He has been bombing the other groups
:17:24. > :17:25.against President Assad. He may now extend the bombing to
:17:26. > :17:30.Islamic State. If you look at the pattern of
:17:31. > :17:36.bombing, 80% against the Free Syrian Army, it's changed on Thursday.
:17:37. > :17:40.There was an increase on bombing on Isis targets and I think you'll see
:17:41. > :17:46.more of that in coming days. There is no way the Russians will react.
:17:47. > :17:49.The Russian public, if you look at 9/11 and the reaction of the
:17:50. > :17:53.American public, lots of things have happened to lots of countries, the
:17:54. > :17:58.immediate reaction in the first weeks and months is not, our foreign
:17:59. > :18:02.policy is wrong, but revenge. The most potent of many of the human
:18:03. > :18:07.emotions. I am certain in the short term the Russian public will support
:18:08. > :18:17.more action. Your original point, Isis is in Libya, Syria,
:18:18. > :18:22.Afghanistan, Iraq, India, growing very slowly in many other countries,
:18:23. > :18:27.and it has become the poster boy for jihadists. It has replaced Al-Qaeda
:18:28. > :18:31.and with that comes money and people prepared to kill themselves.
:18:32. > :18:35.Johnny Mercer, the head of MI5 says the threat of terrorism to the UK is
:18:36. > :18:41.the highest he has seen, that was before the jet went down over the
:18:42. > :18:45.Sinai desert. We now know, we have had it independently corroborated,
:18:46. > :18:51.that I S has been using mustard gas on civilians in Aleppo, not because
:18:52. > :18:54.it is a very use to them, but as a sign, we have got it, a sign to the
:18:55. > :19:00.West. Is that a response series SATs is
:19:01. > :19:04.there a response seriously adequate to this?
:19:05. > :19:07.Until now, we have not been militarily involved as much as we
:19:08. > :19:12.should have. We are in a difficult place here, we are learning all
:19:13. > :19:16.still healing from the mistakes in the last 15 years in terms of
:19:17. > :19:20.foreign policy engagement. That can't mean we draw up the
:19:21. > :19:25.drawbridge and think the way to keep safe at home and keep our way of
:19:26. > :19:29.life is to have no strategic involvement overseas.
:19:30. > :19:33.If it is proved this is done by so-called Islamic State, it
:19:34. > :19:36.demonstrates their strategic reach and reinforces that argument that we
:19:37. > :19:40.have to do something about this threat. It is only going to come
:19:41. > :19:44.closer and it is not good enough for it to come closer, the something to
:19:45. > :19:51.happen, and afterward for us to say, we should have done this and that.
:19:52. > :19:54.We need an intelligent foreign policy such intervention strategy,
:19:55. > :20:00.this is what the banister is trying to do and we should support him.
:20:01. > :20:04.He referred to help Afghanistan and Iraq hang over this country's
:20:05. > :20:10.foreign policy and military responses. Does Afghanistan, from
:20:11. > :20:13.the Soviet era, does that hang over, is it a restraint on what the
:20:14. > :20:17.Kremlin might do today? Totally, they are aware of the risks
:20:18. > :20:23.that occurred when they intervened and the deaths and casualties in
:20:24. > :20:26.Afghanistan. One of the reasons why the Civic union became so weak and
:20:27. > :20:34.eventually led to its disintegration. There is only one
:20:35. > :20:39.other point I would like to make which people in Russia are now
:20:40. > :20:44.talking about, experts, is the fact that to a certain extent this attack
:20:45. > :20:49.was also very much targeted against Egypt. I think a lot of the focus
:20:50. > :20:54.has been on Russia. For me, it was always not very clear white Isis in
:20:55. > :20:59.Egypt in the Sinai desert was going to attack if Russian plane, and why
:21:00. > :21:01.not the people who were under the bombs?
:21:02. > :21:04.It seems very much that we should not forget the dimension that to a
:21:05. > :22:34.certain extent the Russians might The rebels will vote down so they
:22:35. > :22:39.can't go. Because of Iraq, we are not going to go without
:22:40. > :22:42.Parliamentary riddled. On the world spectrum, the 1 country that has
:22:43. > :22:47.pushed harder than any other in the Western sense is the French, who are
:22:48. > :22:54.putting the aircraft carrier back into the Gulf. It was therefore to
:22:55. > :22:59.mums and sending it back. At the request of the Americans. This is
:23:00. > :23:05.2007, the Americans don't have a carrier in the gold. It is not
:23:06. > :23:10.because of the fire power. They would make a difference, it is
:23:11. > :23:15.political to say, hand on, we as a culture, who have common things in
:23:16. > :23:22.our belief systems, we are standing together. At the moment, they are
:23:23. > :23:23.not. I will leave it there. At this point, we say goodbye to viewers in
:23:24. > :23:29.Scotland to leave us. Good morning and welcome to
:23:30. > :23:31.Sunday Politics Scotland. The Scotland Bill is poised to
:23:32. > :23:40.finish its journey through But is the wrangling over
:23:41. > :23:43.further powers finally over? And as the nation marks
:23:44. > :23:45.Remembrance Sunday, we look at the support veterans
:23:46. > :23:58.receive once they leave the forces. When you are in the forces, you are
:23:59. > :24:01.looked after, but then it is a culture shock when you leave.
:24:02. > :24:03.The Scotland Bill is back before MPs tomorrow - accompanied
:24:04. > :24:06.by a shed load of amendments which are supposed to clarify,
:24:07. > :24:08.among other things, the new welfare powers of the Scottish Parliament.
:24:09. > :24:11.Alex Salmond has prompted a late controversy by tabling an amendment
:24:12. > :24:14.saying Holyrood should be given the power to decide if and when there is
:24:15. > :24:19.And, of course, there is a full scale political row going
:24:20. > :24:22.on over how the Scottish government should use the new welfare powers.
:24:23. > :24:25.I'm joined by the Deputy First Minister John Swinney - who's also
:24:26. > :24:31.Cabinet Secretary for Finance, the Constitution and Economy.
:24:32. > :24:38.I suppose we should point out you have been a senator in Glasgow,
:24:39. > :24:41.there used to seeing you with a silly picture of Dundee. I am in
:24:42. > :24:48.Glasgow at this point, but it silly picture of Dundee. I am in
:24:49. > :24:51.this amendment, Alex Salmond who has come up with it. I busy in the
:24:52. > :24:54.government would back him come up with it. I busy in the
:24:55. > :24:59.Robinson in saying the Scottish government should have control over
:25:00. > :25:06.when there is another independence referendum. They legislated for the
:25:07. > :25:10.independence referendum in 2014, and I think everybody acknowledges that
:25:11. > :25:16.legislation was well handed, it was crafted carefully, it was
:25:17. > :25:20.legislation was well handed, it was referendum which was beyond
:25:21. > :25:23.illustration that on this issue of significance, the Scottish
:25:24. > :25:28.parliament should be able to determine how this issue is
:25:29. > :25:35.handled. The counter would be to say you can't have one part of the UK
:25:36. > :25:39.with an indefinite right, when ever it decides, to break up the UK. We
:25:40. > :25:41.had a it decides, to break up the UK. We
:25:42. > :25:45.the legislation that was it decides, to break up the UK. We
:25:46. > :25:47.the Scottish parliament. To me that sets a strong president on how these
:25:48. > :25:55.issues should sets a strong president on how these
:25:56. > :25:58.exercised its competence with such care and effectiveness on this
:25:59. > :26:01.question should allay any of those questions that are raised about
:26:02. > :26:06.whether it is right for the Parliament to hold that power. What
:26:07. > :26:12.we've seen in the course of the last 15 years has been a transfer of
:26:13. > :26:16.additional response military is beyond the ones that were originally
:26:17. > :26:20.conceived of in the Scottish act when the reservation on a
:26:21. > :26:26.constructional policy was put in place. On the Scotland Bill Alec
:26:27. > :26:31.Neill seem to be saying that you now accept that under the Scotland Bill,
:26:32. > :26:36.you will have the powers over things like tax credits. That's right, is
:26:37. > :26:40.it? There are two amendments which will be relevant, one from the UK
:26:41. > :26:45.government and want on the Scottish National Party, which will give the
:26:46. > :26:50.parliament the power to exercise responsibilities. The amendment
:26:51. > :26:56.dolls the macro devolves the tax system, so there can be no doubt the
:26:57. > :26:59.fact the Scottish Parliament can exercise these responsibilities, and
:27:00. > :27:04.the UK amendment sets out responsibilities that enable new
:27:05. > :27:08.benefits to be created in Scotland. Those are the elements in the bill
:27:09. > :27:12.which were not in the bill when it was first put to the House of
:27:13. > :27:16.Commons and when it was published, so the UK Parliament has the
:27:17. > :27:21.opportunity tomorrow to strengthen those powers further. And you want
:27:22. > :27:26.those powers so you can do what? Do you want to mitigate the effects of
:27:27. > :27:29.tax credit cuts? We have mitigated some of the effects of welfare
:27:30. > :27:36.reform, in relation to the bedroom tax. Do you want to do it in full?
:27:37. > :27:40.Anyone that thinks the Scottish Parliament has the financial
:27:41. > :27:43.capability and skills of resources to mitigate in full, in the
:27:44. > :27:50.entirety, the welfare reform agenda... The tax credit cuts. That
:27:51. > :27:56.is different is on the whole of the agenda, it would inconceivable... Do
:27:57. > :27:59.you want to mitigate in full? What we have set out on tax cuts
:28:00. > :28:05.specifically is that once we know the scale of the challenge we face,
:28:06. > :28:10.because we don't yet know that, the UK Chancellor has been sent home to
:28:11. > :28:15.think again after the House of Lords interventions, so we're not the end
:28:16. > :28:21.of this month, and we'll know what changes George Osborne will make.
:28:22. > :28:28.Once we know that, we will bring forward our proposals. They are
:28:29. > :28:33.designed to protect the incomes of low-income families. Is that your
:28:34. > :28:38.intention to mitigate, as Labour: four, for you to mitigate the
:28:39. > :28:42.effects of the tax credit cuts? What we will do is look at the scale of
:28:43. > :28:50.the challenge that faces us once we know the extent... Let's take as of
:28:51. > :28:55.now, as the situation now, which may be mitigated by George Osborne, but
:28:56. > :28:58.as of now, what is your estimate of how much it would cost you to
:28:59. > :29:09.mitigate in full the effect of cuts crash mark the starting costs would
:29:10. > :29:13.be 400 million, and it will rise to 630 million. That is the full cost
:29:14. > :29:17.base of George Osborne put to the House of Commons. We don't know the
:29:18. > :29:22.extent on which you will undertake changes by the time we set our
:29:23. > :29:26.budget, which will though: Macro follow the spending review. This
:29:27. > :29:30.minister made it clear that it is our intention to protect people in
:29:31. > :29:34.low-income households, who will be affected by these changes and we
:29:35. > :29:38.will see what the Chancellor says, and then design a properly costed
:29:39. > :29:43.and worked out system that will support low income. Even the worst
:29:44. > :29:48.case scenario as unmitigated by George Osborne, ?400 million
:29:49. > :29:54.initially, why can't you saying now... It is your party which has
:29:55. > :29:59.been shouting loudly. Why can't you saying now, we commit, we will work
:30:00. > :30:04.out something which will mean no family in Scotland loses as a result
:30:05. > :30:08.of the tax credit cuts? For the simple reason people expect the
:30:09. > :30:11.government to bring forward properly organised and operated systems that
:30:12. > :30:15.can address these issues, and that is what we will do. The first
:30:16. > :30:19.minister could not have been clearer in Thursday in setting out the
:30:20. > :30:22.commitment of the government to support low income households.
:30:23. > :30:26.People need to look into the history of the good men to see how we have
:30:27. > :30:32.supported people in vulnerability. We supported people affected by the
:30:33. > :30:37.bedroom tax,... You saying you can't find the money? No, not in the
:30:38. > :30:40.slightest. What I will say is that we will look at what the Chancellor
:30:41. > :30:45.sets out at the end of the month. That is the responsible thing to do
:30:46. > :30:50.so we can work out the circumstances of people who are affected, and
:30:51. > :30:54.addressed that. We will set those details are the Chancellor has
:30:55. > :30:59.resolved the difficulties he has about the operation... The changes
:31:00. > :31:06.George Osborne has proposed the tax bands, which will mean you don't pay
:31:07. > :31:12.the 40p rate until your winning ?50,000, do you agree with those
:31:13. > :31:18.proposals? We will set out the details of our tax stands for the
:31:19. > :31:21.years beyond 2016. Do you agree in principle by people on higher
:31:22. > :31:28.earnings, and the point is that over the years inflation has eroded these
:31:29. > :31:32.bands so people who are on whether to low incomes than ?42,000 are
:31:33. > :31:37.having to pay the higher rate, what George Osborne is saying is that he
:31:38. > :31:42.wants to raise the threshold at which you pay higher tax. Labour
:31:43. > :31:48.said they would not do in Scotland. Whether the macro would you
:31:49. > :31:53.implement those proposals? -- would you implement those proposals? If
:31:54. > :31:59.you look at the changes I've have brought in, you saw me taking
:32:00. > :32:02.decisions which the sifted the burden of taxation from low to
:32:03. > :32:06.moderate households to higher earners. That is me turning into
:32:07. > :32:14.practical reality the principles of this Scottish National Party... What
:32:15. > :32:18.does that mean for tax band? I'm addressing it in principle. We
:32:19. > :32:22.believe people on higher earnings should pay their fair share of
:32:23. > :32:28.taxation, and I deployed that principle as part of the transaction
:32:29. > :32:32.tax. Word comes to specific commitment around about taxation, my
:32:33. > :32:36.duty as the finance minister is to set out to Parliament exactly what
:32:37. > :32:40.changes we will make. These areas will come to us in due course. We
:32:41. > :32:44.won't be able to exercise those changes in relation to tax bands in
:32:45. > :32:48.2017 because the powers will not be with us by then. They will be with
:32:49. > :32:52.us by 2017 because the powers will not be with us by then. They will be
:32:53. > :32:57.with us by what Labour is saying is that they think it is not
:32:58. > :33:02.unreasonable to ask people in Scotland to pay, and they would end
:33:03. > :33:09.up paying more tax than they are now... We think it is reasonable for
:33:10. > :33:14.them to do that to help people on welfare. Do you agree? I think I
:33:15. > :33:17.have said already the point in principle, that I believe people on
:33:18. > :33:23.higher earnings should pay their fair share of taxation. That is why
:33:24. > :33:27.we supported the existence of the 30p tax rate when the Conservative
:33:28. > :33:29.government was taking it away. We will set out our specific proposals
:33:30. > :33:33.to Parliament, where I have a duty will set out our specific proposals
:33:34. > :33:38.and obligation to do that. There is a legitimate argument which has to
:33:39. > :33:42.and obligation to do that. There is higher earnings should pay their
:33:43. > :33:46.and obligation to do that. There is they will receive a substantial tax
:33:47. > :33:52.cut, there is an issue to be addressed as to whether or not that
:33:53. > :33:58.is the right thing to do. Lots of people in this area of the country
:33:59. > :34:02.voted for you, both in the referendum and four Yes to
:34:03. > :34:06.independence. They voted SNP because you claimed you were the party
:34:07. > :34:10.buffet would stick up for the brewer and with a party of
:34:11. > :34:15.anti-austerities. What would you apply if they said, we are getting
:34:16. > :34:19.clear answers from Labour, who say they will mitigate in full the
:34:20. > :34:24.effects of tax cuts, they do think it is more important to do that than
:34:25. > :34:29.to let people who are better off have tax breaks. Why is it suddenly
:34:30. > :34:32.that the SNP can't give us clear answers? The Labour Party is not
:34:33. > :34:37.being clear, because they are spending the money they want to
:34:38. > :34:43.spend... They will spend the money they want to spend to deal with tax
:34:44. > :34:46.credits twice. They won't spend it on education. The one thing I have
:34:47. > :34:51.learned is that you can't spend money twice, you spend at the once.
:34:52. > :34:55.Labour has been caught out spending it twice. You weren't committed to
:34:56. > :35:07.mitigating the effect of tax credit cuts. You could... You would have to
:35:08. > :35:13.make ?400 billion of cuts. I am not going to commit on BBC
:35:14. > :35:17.television... I might commit to it in the Scottish parliament, where I
:35:18. > :35:22.should set out my stance. That is what I will do. Critics will say you
:35:23. > :35:29.are a bit like a chef who fusses in the kitchen demanding you don't have
:35:30. > :35:33.the right ingredients, but now you have the right ingredients and you
:35:34. > :35:38.don't want to make anything. I will set up the position when I get the
:35:39. > :35:40.budget later on this year. We will set out clearly what the stance of
:35:41. > :35:52.the government is. We have pressed and pressed the
:35:53. > :35:55.United Kingdom government to improve the Scotland Bill, which did not
:35:56. > :35:59.deliver the Smith commission and which has resulted in as exerting
:36:00. > :36:03.significant influence to ensure we have a bill which will enable us to
:36:04. > :36:06.take a whole range of decisions on behalf of the people of Scotland. We
:36:07. > :36:09.will leave it there. The nation paused today to remember
:36:10. > :36:12.those who've given their lives In 2011, the UK government
:36:13. > :36:18.introduced Signatories are expected to
:36:19. > :36:22.recognise and try to alleviate the particular problems faced by serving
:36:23. > :36:25.and former military personnel. But finding a job
:36:26. > :36:28.and a home can still be difficult. Our reporter, John McManus, has
:36:29. > :36:44.been to a support centre in Govan Coming together to remember those
:36:45. > :36:47.who have fought on the nation's behalf and especially to pay tribute
:36:48. > :36:54.to those who made the ultimate sacrifice. For many former
:36:55. > :36:59.servicepeople who have hung up their marching boots, the transition to
:37:00. > :37:03.civilian life can be tough. This is one solution. The coming home Centre
:37:04. > :37:08.in Govan, a place where former servicepeople can come for support
:37:09. > :37:12.and help. 40 rolled Martin Gilbert is one of them. With tours of Iraq
:37:13. > :37:17.and Northern Ireland under his belt, he has still found he had few
:37:18. > :37:22.transferable skills to find a new job. So where were the politicians?
:37:23. > :37:26.All the help that I have had since coming out the Army has been through
:37:27. > :37:33.charities. I would like what the Government are meant to be doing?
:37:34. > :37:38.You're meant to get priority treatment on the NHS. You have to go
:37:39. > :37:42.to the start of the queue at the doctors. But when I am unwell,
:37:43. > :37:48.iPhone the doctors and I can't even get past the person on the phone.
:37:49. > :37:56.Ian Hopkins is a former Royal Marine who founded the centre. Says a wide
:37:57. > :38:00.variety of robins are in evidence. The vast majority of people who come
:38:01. > :38:04.through these doors tend to have a mental health issue of some kind.
:38:05. > :38:14.And all the baggage that goes with it. Some are homeless, sofa surfing,
:38:15. > :38:18.or sleeping under the bridges, there are financial problems.
:38:19. > :38:22.Occasionally, problems with addiction and self-medication. Like
:38:23. > :38:28.Martin, Ian also questions whether the Armed Forces Covenant has made
:38:29. > :38:35.an impact. In some cases, yes, but quite often, that does not
:38:36. > :38:39.materialise until later... We recently had to help a veteran who
:38:40. > :38:44.lost a leg in Afghanistan. Through the NHS, he had been offered
:38:45. > :38:48.something he did not need. Until he went along and quoted the Armed
:38:49. > :38:54.Forces Covenant and said what he needed, they then changed their
:38:55. > :38:58.tune. This 29-year-old aunt his liver dog left the forces in
:38:59. > :39:03.December. He benefited from an Army resettlement plan and careers
:39:04. > :39:08.advice. He found life outside the Army's cocoon very different. I am
:39:09. > :39:12.not seeing you get baby-sat, but everyone looks after you. When you
:39:13. > :39:17.do leave, it is a culture shock, really. You don't realise, you need
:39:18. > :39:23.to go and do everything for yourself. You don't know what places
:39:24. > :39:29.are what called or how to with things. Should veterans then be
:39:30. > :39:33.given more help to adjust to life out of uniform? How far should they
:39:34. > :39:38.be prioritised? For example, when searching for somewhere to live? The
:39:39. > :39:41.approach we have taken and the veterans organisations in Scotland
:39:42. > :39:45.have taken, is we do not want to see particular advantages. I can get a
:39:46. > :39:48.negative reaction. Many veterans themselves do not want to be given
:39:49. > :39:52.an advantage but they certainly do not want to have a disadvantage. If
:39:53. > :39:58.you're in Civvy Street, you can regulate pointedly want to get
:39:59. > :40:02.social rented housing. Many of our personnel don't realise that while
:40:03. > :40:06.they are in the Armed Forces, they can accumulate points through that
:40:07. > :40:11.time as well, so leave the forces, they would already have those points
:40:12. > :40:15.to help them access a property. Back at the centre, Ian would like to see
:40:16. > :40:19.his methods spread across the country. I would duplicate what we
:40:20. > :40:26.do all over. Without a shadow of a doubt. Help centres, where people
:40:27. > :40:30.can do meaningful work and help veterans to get resettled in their
:40:31. > :40:33.communities. When it comes to organising and funding that help,
:40:34. > :40:35.have we struck the right balance between charities and the state?
:40:36. > :40:37.I'm joined from Edinburgh by the Scottish Veterans Commissioner,
:40:38. > :40:50.I am curious to know, your take on this, there seemed ten to their
:40:51. > :40:54.between what Keith Brown was saying, that veterans themselves do not want
:40:55. > :40:58.preferential treatment and the interpretation that some of the
:40:59. > :41:01.former servers personnel had of the Armed Forces Covenant, which is that
:41:02. > :41:07.they should get preferential treatment. What is your
:41:08. > :41:13.understanding? I have spoken to many veterans and people who support them
:41:14. > :41:16.over the last year. The point that they don't want preferential
:41:17. > :41:20.treatment is absolutely spot on. However, you have to acknowledge
:41:21. > :41:25.that the transition process from being in the services, and I think
:41:26. > :41:30.the gentleman in the film used the words "cocooned" to something which
:41:31. > :41:36.is quite stark. In one day, you lose your job, your way of life and you
:41:37. > :41:42.have to find a new way. There is definitely a struggle there. That is
:41:43. > :41:46.where a lot of the stress comes in. We have to look at a balance of what
:41:47. > :41:53.can be provided from the statutory services and the charities, but also
:41:54. > :41:57.from society as a whole. Right. And what is your view about whether
:41:58. > :42:02.we're getting that balance right? Some people in the film seemed to
:42:03. > :42:07.feel as if they had been left on their own. Yes. There is a small
:42:08. > :42:12.number who are seriously affected by the transition process and do need a
:42:13. > :42:18.lot of help. The majority make the transition perfectly well. Either
:42:19. > :42:25.through their own efforts or those of the MoD or local government, the
:42:26. > :42:30.NHS, whatever it happens to be, they help them get through the first
:42:31. > :42:33.hurdle. But there is definitely a group, perhaps featuring some of the
:42:34. > :42:40.individuals in that film, who do need help. There are organisations
:42:41. > :42:49.which provide help. We heard from Govan, but there are other
:42:50. > :42:54.organisations relating to employment issues or mental health aspects, who
:42:55. > :42:59.do provide help. The difficulty is often in getting the message across
:43:00. > :43:05.that these initiatives are in place. I am still not clear on, if it is
:43:06. > :43:10.the case, and you seem to agree with Keith Brown, that the veterans
:43:11. > :43:12.themselves do not want preferential treatment, what difference then is
:43:13. > :43:19.the Armed Forces Covenant supposed to make? The Armed Forces Covenant,
:43:20. > :43:25.and various other documents as well, what they have done is highlighted
:43:26. > :43:31.the difficulties and indeed the advantages of service men in your
:43:32. > :43:34.community. It has brought it into the open that some of them, a small
:43:35. > :43:44.percentage, do have issues, something to do with Chloe ability,
:43:45. > :43:49.mental health, physical problems -- employability. It has opened peoples
:43:50. > :43:53.eyes to the fact that you have this great asset. The vast majority of
:43:54. > :43:59.people who leave the Armed Forces have a huge skill set. This idea of
:44:00. > :44:05.giving service, which is instrumental in the community and
:44:06. > :44:11.workplaces and for the economy. We heard the young man they're saying
:44:12. > :44:14.that there is a problem that in a way, in the Armed Forces, you're
:44:15. > :44:19.institutionalised, you don't really have to take the initiative.
:44:20. > :44:27.Everything on the outside, you have to organise yourself when you leave.
:44:28. > :44:30.You have to pick your life in danger in combat of course but nonetheless,
:44:31. > :44:33.the point being made was it is difficult to come out of that and
:44:34. > :44:36.certainly do everything for yourself in a world that you are perhaps not
:44:37. > :44:40.as familiar with as in a world that you are perhaps not
:44:41. > :44:44.around you. People around you know how to
:44:45. > :44:46.around you. People around you know contact with particular advice
:44:47. > :44:52.local hospital or whatever but you don't know any of that. No, and
:44:53. > :44:57.there are some younger members of the Armed Forces who
:44:58. > :45:01.in their late teens or early 20s, who may well struggle. I make the
:45:02. > :45:05.point that the vast majority do know how to access the public services,
:45:06. > :45:09.point that the vast majority do know the charities, if they need to. The
:45:10. > :45:12.point I would make is that there are a lot of mechanisms in place, some
:45:13. > :45:14.relatively new, which should be a lot of mechanisms in place, some
:45:15. > :45:18.there to make that pathway that bit a lot of mechanisms in place, some
:45:19. > :45:23.smoother, throwing out some of the hurdles they have had to get over in
:45:24. > :45:26.the past. Still along way to go, in particular in areas where we have to
:45:27. > :45:31.pass on information. It is very difficult for some of these
:45:32. > :45:34.individuals to find out what information and support is
:45:35. > :45:38.available. In my first year, I seemed to spend a lot of time trying
:45:39. > :45:42.to recommend and get changes to the way information was chaired, the way
:45:43. > :45:48.knowledge is put out, so that young servicepeople in particular though
:45:49. > :45:52.what they can hook into, by way of local authorities and various other
:45:53. > :46:00.bodies, to really make it clear what is out there for them. More broadly,
:46:01. > :46:05.how do you think the whole poppy movement, Remembrance Sunday thing,
:46:06. > :46:11.will develop over the next ten or 20 years? Sadly, many of the people,
:46:12. > :46:18.originally the whole thing was set up to commemorate, or the living who
:46:19. > :46:22.were helped, but survivors of the Second World War, for example, are
:46:23. > :46:24.no longer with us. Well we still have veterans of places like Iraq
:46:25. > :46:30.and Afghanistan, the numbers are nothing like the kind of numbers of
:46:31. > :46:34.people coming back from conscripted armed service in the Second World
:46:35. > :46:37.War. Do you think the whole nature of the thing will stay the same? Or
:46:38. > :46:43.will it change over the next few years? I think it probably will stay
:46:44. > :46:49.much as it is at the moment. Change is unlikely. The military and
:46:50. > :46:57.commemoration process is a fairly conservative thing. I have just come
:46:58. > :47:06.back from Saint Giles this morning, where the late wreaths and had a
:47:07. > :47:10.two-minute silence. A lot of young people there were involved in
:47:11. > :47:17.service. The contribution that they have made, whether it is recent wars
:47:18. > :47:22.like Afghanistan or something in the Falklands, or in the Second World
:47:23. > :47:29.War, I think that will endure. I am at pains to do in my role, as
:47:30. > :47:32.Commissioner, is to make the point to anyone who will listen that we
:47:33. > :47:36.really have a huge asset. All of these people who have served in our
:47:37. > :47:41.Armed Forces over many years, men and women, and their spouses, really
:47:42. > :47:45.do contribute a huge amount. You may not see them in society but they are
:47:46. > :47:49.there. I really do think we could be making more of that. Perhaps making
:47:50. > :47:53.more of a song and dance about it at times. But at the end of the day, I
:47:54. > :47:56.believe do think the public in Scotland respect and want to
:47:57. > :48:01.acknowledge the sacrifice that so many people have made over so many
:48:02. > :48:04.years. Packs us. Thank you very much indeed.
:48:05. > :48:09.Words we hear used all the time in public and political life.
:48:10. > :48:12.But what do they really mean, and how do we do these things well?
:48:13. > :48:15.Someone with plenty of views on the subject is Susan Deacon.
:48:16. > :48:17.Her career's taken her from Government, as Scotland's first
:48:18. > :48:19.health minister after devolution, to the private sector and academia.
:48:20. > :48:22.And she's just become the new Chair of the Institute of Directors
:48:23. > :48:25.in Scotland - the first woman to hold the role.
:48:26. > :48:30.She joins us now from our Edinburgh studio.
:48:31. > :48:36.Susan Deacon, an obvious first question, why do you want to do
:48:37. > :48:40.this? My passion and interest over 30 years, throughout my career, has
:48:41. > :48:44.been about how we can have effective leadership in Scotland, how we can
:48:45. > :48:49.make our country a better place and work together to do that. The
:48:50. > :48:51.Institute of directors in Scotland is a growing organisation that
:48:52. > :48:56.brings together some 2000 leaders from right across businesses, big
:48:57. > :48:59.and small, the charitable sector, the public sector, it really is a
:49:00. > :49:04.fantastic gathering place for that leadership community to grow and
:49:05. > :49:11.develop. I am proud to take on this role as it's Chair. Despite the
:49:12. > :49:17.reconciliation between business and Blairism that went on after 1997, it
:49:18. > :49:24.is not immediately obvious why a former Labour minister would want to
:49:25. > :49:29.run an organisation which, in the past, I think it was fair to say,
:49:30. > :49:36.was seen as somewhat to the right of the CBI? There is a diverse mix of
:49:37. > :49:40.people in the organisation with all sorts of different political views
:49:41. > :49:45.and number. The organisation itself is strictly nonparty political. I
:49:46. > :49:48.have been like a cracked record for many years, to say that we have to
:49:49. > :49:57.get better at working across boundaries. Weather across sectors
:49:58. > :50:03.or parties, universities and business and Government... Having
:50:04. > :50:07.organisations like the eye of the that can join some of those dots and
:50:08. > :50:11.look at how in Scotland we can work together to bring about the change
:50:12. > :50:15.that we all want to see. It is important. If we're going to have an
:50:16. > :50:19.effect of transport infrastructure, the skills we need for the future,
:50:20. > :50:25.vibrant businesses, big and small, that means we must work together. We
:50:26. > :50:28.are small country. All too often, he pulls it and point the finger at
:50:29. > :50:40.others. We need to be around the table, not across it, if we're make
:50:41. > :50:44.a difference. Why do they want you? You would need to ask others why
:50:45. > :50:47.they want me. I would like to think the pretty eclectic mix of
:50:48. > :50:53.leadership roles I've had over the years gives me a capability to head
:50:54. > :50:56.up the organisation as its chair, but also to build some of the
:50:57. > :51:01.much-needed connectivity we need here in Scotland and a crass our
:51:02. > :51:05.leadership. I'd like to be a team player and what is nice about an
:51:06. > :51:09.organisation is that it is individuals who choose to be part of
:51:10. > :51:14.it, who want to work with others to develop themselves, their
:51:15. > :51:17.organisations, and in the main I think they are strongly motivated by
:51:18. > :51:24.wanting to make Scotland a better place. The stuff that you are saying
:51:25. > :51:30.earlier. A lot of people listen to that and think it sounds terribly
:51:31. > :51:34.grand but vague as well. Specifically, your ideal collecting
:51:35. > :51:39.people together and showing leadership, realistically, what
:51:40. > :51:43.could the IOD do, or I'll organisations like the IOD, that
:51:44. > :51:50.they're not doing? In specific terms. I have often said, including
:51:51. > :51:55.back when I was in Parliament, that you can have all the fancy
:51:56. > :52:00.strategies in the world, all the great plans and analysis and
:52:01. > :52:04.statistics you like, but unless you actually have... The government you
:52:05. > :52:09.were part of what is good at producing grand plans. I have the
:52:10. > :52:14.agreed, and one of the lessons I learned was about the limitations of
:52:15. > :52:18.top down government action, and I have criticised as being over relied
:52:19. > :52:22.on that. That was very much from that experience was if you take
:52:23. > :52:26.something like the skills gaps we have in Scotland, we have had no end
:52:27. > :52:31.of reports, we have agencies and expert groups, the kind of skills
:52:32. > :52:37.will need in the future, whether in our care sector or the IT sector, in
:52:38. > :52:40.engineering, get the amount of analysis we have done is not the
:52:41. > :52:46.portion of the two the amount of action we have had done. I accept it
:52:47. > :52:51.is not the stuff of headlines, but we need to have employees working
:52:52. > :52:56.hand-in-hand with colleges and universities, making sure the
:52:57. > :53:01.courses on offer at the ones that will equip people better for the
:53:02. > :53:05.future. Just on that. As it happens, I was speaking to people in the IOD,
:53:06. > :53:09.and what they were saying is that there is a problem now in certain
:53:10. > :53:16.areas that the world is changing so fast, courses are not giving up word
:53:17. > :53:22.so the problem is not generalities about getting people into colleges,
:53:23. > :53:26.it is that even if they are in there doing marketing, for instance, the
:53:27. > :53:32.world is changing faster than their courses. Is that what you are
:53:33. > :53:37.thinking that the IOD complainer rolling? Exactly. We live in a world
:53:38. > :53:41.where the only certainty is uncertainty. The generation, the now
:53:42. > :53:43.have to be flexible and adaptable, and those who provide education and
:53:44. > :53:47.training to them how to make sure and those who provide education and
:53:48. > :53:53.they fleet of foot and are moving with the times for the world around
:53:54. > :53:57.us. As I say, you do that I having fancy policy statements, you do it
:53:58. > :54:02.by making sure employers and education providers are working
:54:03. > :54:06.together day to day. It is not the stuff that grabs headlines, but it
:54:07. > :54:15.is the stuff that makes a difference. We said you were the
:54:16. > :54:19.first woman chair of IOD Scotland. Do you... There is a problem with
:54:20. > :54:24.women in public life in Scotland. There are many women in leading
:54:25. > :54:27.positions in Scotland, but my sense is not as much as down south. I
:54:28. > :54:31.don't know, is not as much as down south. I
:54:32. > :54:37.you look at the political leadership in Scotland, women are very much in
:54:38. > :54:41.the ascendancy. If you look at a host of businesses in Scotland you
:54:42. > :54:46.will see a growing number of women leaders. They are at the helm, both
:54:47. > :54:51.in executive roles and in our boardrooms as non-executives. But
:54:52. > :54:54.there needs to be more. It should not be an exercise about numbers.
:54:55. > :54:59.there needs to be more. It should Women, more than anyone, we want to
:55:00. > :55:08.be sure we are doing the jobs we do on merit and recognise full is that
:55:09. > :55:13.discussion about diversity, it is not just about numbers, it is not
:55:14. > :55:21.making sure our boardrooms have the skills and ability to do the job. We
:55:22. > :55:23.are making progress, but we have 2 do more work. OK, we will leave it
:55:24. > :55:30.there now. I'm joined by Shabnum Mustapha,
:55:31. > :55:33.who was a special adviser to the Liberal Democrats in government, and
:55:34. > :55:48.by Paul Hutcheon, the Investigations Shabnum, let's talk rubbish tax
:55:49. > :55:53.credits Raoul. What do you make of it? I find it bizarre that the SNP
:55:54. > :55:58.did not know there were powers coming through that would allow them
:55:59. > :56:05.to top it up, but they... They would say they could not know about the
:56:06. > :56:09.amendments until they saw the amendments. Everyone else seemed to
:56:10. > :56:13.be aware of it. The SNP were playing catch up and it was embarrassing for
:56:14. > :56:17.Alex Neill in the middle of the six minute speech having to make a
:56:18. > :56:21.U-turn about what they can and can't do with new powers coming forward in
:56:22. > :56:26.the bill. At the same time this week, they seemed clear on their
:56:27. > :56:32.demands for powers in Scotland to hold another referendum. It seems to
:56:33. > :56:37.be that it is odd... You heard what John Swinney was saying, they will
:56:38. > :56:43.help the low paid and worst. The issue is that they have had to be
:56:44. > :56:47.tried into this. It is quite an usual for the SNP to be on the back
:56:48. > :56:51.foot. They should have been there from the start saying no matter what
:56:52. > :56:57.happens at Westminster, people in Scotland who lie on these tax
:56:58. > :57:02.credits will be no worse off. They should have been front putting this.
:57:03. > :57:07.Instead they are on the back foot and scrambling around. Do you agree
:57:08. > :57:12.with that, Paul Hutcheon? I was trying to suggest that the SNP is
:57:13. > :57:20.that they are anti-austerities, and Shabnum says they should be saying,
:57:21. > :57:26.we should do this and that. But they are saying, I can't say until I get
:57:27. > :57:31.the budgets. I agree the SNP have been on the back but in this issue.
:57:32. > :57:35.There is a brutal political reality underpinning this. Labour will not
:57:36. > :57:40.win the election, so they can afford to make adventurous and bold
:57:41. > :57:44.spending commitment on tax credits, because they know they would be in
:57:45. > :57:47.the position to implement it. The SNP will win the election, so what
:57:48. > :57:51.ever they say on tax credits, they're going to have to deliver on
:57:52. > :57:58.it. They will have to find the money. That explains their
:57:59. > :58:03.reluctance. One criticism of labour, I presume, is that they are saying
:58:04. > :58:07.it might appeal to people affected by the tax credit cuts, but Middle
:58:08. > :58:13.Scotland might say, we quite like the idea of the tax changes George
:58:14. > :58:16.Osborne is bringing in. There has been good politics from the Scottish
:58:17. > :58:21.Labour Party and that they are showing that this dwindling thing.
:58:22. > :58:27.But where is the money going to come from? They say they won't raise
:58:28. > :58:32.taxes on middle income earners, it would push ahead with cuts and
:58:33. > :58:37.fiddle with tax bands. There are questions over that. Given that
:58:38. > :58:41.Labour would win the election, they won't be subjected to too many
:58:42. > :58:46.detailed questions, it will all be about what the SNP will do. You can
:58:47. > :58:50.understand the SNP wearing about these things. I bet you don't find
:58:51. > :58:56.the Lib Dems are rushing to say they don't think people should not gain
:58:57. > :59:01.from the changes. In government you how to make difficult decisions, but
:59:02. > :59:05.on welfare, the Lib Dems have made it clear they won't introduce
:59:06. > :59:08.sweeping reforms that George Osborne wanted. We block them in government.
:59:09. > :59:17.The SNP should have been front putting this issue. What about Paul
:59:18. > :59:21.Hutcheon's point. John Swinney says it will cost ?400 million if the
:59:22. > :59:25.situation were as now. Where will they find the money from? You don't
:59:26. > :59:30.have the worry of about that in opposition. As Paul offline, Labour
:59:31. > :59:35.have made those choices as to whether money will come from. The
:59:36. > :59:38.SNP can find the money at the will is there. So you have to question
:59:39. > :59:44.where their political will is there in helping the brewer in Scotland.
:59:45. > :59:50.Someone else would just come up is David Cameron getting tough on
:59:51. > :59:54.Europe. Come on's exit warning on EU reform will stop he will tell they
:59:55. > :59:59.might generally leave the EU if he does not get what he wants for some
:00:00. > :00:04.credible? No, it is a blood which people will see through. It has the
:00:05. > :00:10.makings of a quagmire for the Prime Minister. I can't see anything he
:00:11. > :00:14.can bring back that will persuade his Eurosceptic colleagues. Even
:00:15. > :00:17.more importantly, even if he does bring back powers, there's no
:00:18. > :00:21.guarantee that if the referendum is successful for the Prime Minister,
:00:22. > :00:25.that these governed will sign of two and agree to it. You might have a
:00:26. > :00:28.change of government it one of the eastern European countries and they
:00:29. > :00:33.won't back. You have governments that are accountable to their own
:00:34. > :00:37.electorates, not to the UK. I think he is getting sucked into a
:00:38. > :00:40.situation he can't control and has been left with headlines like this
:00:41. > :00:47.which are bluffing. He might mean it. I'm not sure. One of the
:00:48. > :00:51.proposals that he has come forward with is to ban migrants from
:00:52. > :00:55.claiming benefits for four years. Even his own Cabinet Secretary has
:00:56. > :00:59.told them it is illegal under EU law. He will fail at the first
:01:00. > :01:03.hurdle on that one. You how to astral self, where is he going with
:01:04. > :01:08.it? Will he have to campaign leaving the EU question what I did think it
:01:09. > :01:14.is what he wants or George Osborne. They have not properly thought this
:01:15. > :01:19.out, and it a mess. Adding to the mix that with Davidson has said
:01:20. > :01:26.exquisitely that she wants to stay in the EU -- Ruth Davison. It is
:01:27. > :01:32.incongruent with saying I might leave if I don't get what I want. On
:01:33. > :01:36.face value there is difference, but everyone expects the Prime Minister
:01:37. > :01:40.to be arguing for Britain's placed in the EU. No one expect him to beat
:01:41. > :01:44.campaigning for an exit abode. He is trying to ramp up the rhetoric, give
:01:45. > :01:52.the impression this is what he wants. No one expects him to be
:01:53. > :01:57.serious. What about Syria? It is bubbling under the issue. One figure
:01:58. > :02:04.saying you are letting down allies by not bombing Syria, but the
:02:05. > :02:07.government saying they would intend to go back to the House of Commons
:02:08. > :02:11.but only when the mood is right. What do you make of these
:02:12. > :02:15.developments? The mood is not there, the mood is not the amongst all the
:02:16. > :02:21.political parties, including the Conservative side. We saw foreign
:02:22. > :02:25.affairs select committee report, which the majority of Conservative
:02:26. > :02:29.MPs said the case has not been made for military intervention. The focus
:02:30. > :02:32.should be more on coming up with a kind of regional solution, bringing
:02:33. > :02:36.in people from across the Middle East together to try and come up
:02:37. > :02:43.with a more peaceful solution. And also taking in refugees who are in
:02:44. > :02:48.with a more peaceful solution. And not doing. You can see the twin fun
:02:49. > :02:58.tree people, because it is almost part of the definition of what
:02:59. > :03:03.Islamic State is -- you can see the argument. The argument is that, they
:03:04. > :03:03.don't recognise these bodies, yet we are making some artificial
:03:04. > :03:17.distinction. are making some artificial
:03:18. > :03:22.-- has happened. You then have the are making some artificial
:03:23. > :03:24.intervention of Russia. It is a complex situation. The political
:03:25. > :03:27.mood is not there, so complex situation. The political
:03:28. > :03:31.focus efforts on other complex situation. The political
:03:32. > :03:39.military. You can't Sunday Politics is back in a
:03:40. > :03:43.fortnight at the usual time, 11am.