0:00:35 > 0:00:37Morning everyone, and welcome to the Sunday Politics.
0:00:37 > 0:00:38I'm Sarah Smith.
0:00:38 > 0:00:41And this is your guide to all the big stories that
0:00:41 > 0:00:45are shaping politics this weekend, and a few of the smaller ones too.
0:00:45 > 0:00:47Philip Hammond is getting ready to deliver his latest Budget
0:00:47 > 0:00:50on Wednesday and he's not short of advice - to spend more,
0:00:50 > 0:00:53show restraint, even to stop being an Eyore -
0:00:53 > 0:00:58but can he change the direction of the country and his government?
0:00:58 > 0:01:00Conservative Party darling Jacob Rees-Mogg has
0:01:00 > 0:01:01some advice of his own.
0:01:01 > 0:01:04He thinks the Chancellor is being far too gloomy about Brexit
0:01:04 > 0:01:08- he joins me live to explain why.
0:01:08 > 0:01:11The former Leave campaign leader, Gisela Stuart, will be here debating
0:01:11 > 0:01:14with pro-EU campaigner Alastair Campbell, after taking
0:01:14 > 0:01:17a trip to her native Germany to speak to businesses
0:01:17 > 0:01:21about Brexit.
0:01:21 > 0:01:23And on Sunday Politics Scotland today, the Scottish Government saves
0:01:23 > 0:01:25BiFab from imminent administration.
0:01:25 > 0:01:29But is it enough to secure manufacturing in the long term?
0:01:29 > 0:01:31I'll be asking the Economy Secretary, Keith Brown.
0:01:31 > 0:01:33Also, after a bitter battle, Richard Leonard becomes
0:01:33 > 0:01:36the ninth leader of Scottish Labour since devolution, but will he be
0:01:36 > 0:01:46able to heal the party's wounds?
0:01:49 > 0:01:51All that coming up in the programme.
0:01:51 > 0:01:54And with me for for all of it, three journalists who've promised
0:01:54 > 0:01:57not to show off like Michael Gove by using any long economicky words -
0:01:57 > 0:02:00although I'm not sure they really know that many anyway -
0:02:00 > 0:02:03it's Tom Newton Dunn, Gaby Hinsliff and Iain Martin.
0:02:03 > 0:02:06Let's take a look at the big political stories making the news
0:02:06 > 0:02:08this Sunday morning, and as you might expect there's
0:02:08 > 0:02:11plenty of speculation about what might or not might be
0:02:11 > 0:02:13in Philip Hammond's Budget.
0:02:13 > 0:02:16The Chancellor is promising a big investment in new technology,
0:02:16 > 0:02:19including driverless cars - which could be on the road by 2021.
0:02:19 > 0:02:23He's been interviewed in the Sunday Times,
0:02:23 > 0:02:25where he talks about plans to reach the target of building
0:02:25 > 0:02:29300,000 homes every year, or the equivalent of a city
0:02:29 > 0:02:30the size of Leeds.
0:02:30 > 0:02:33That paper speculates that he's attempting to turn from "fiscal
0:02:33 > 0:02:36Phil" into "hopeful Hammond" as he tries to set out
0:02:36 > 0:02:39a vision for the country, not just a list of numbers.
0:02:39 > 0:02:42The Sunday Telegraph thinks that Mr Hammond is planning to offer
0:02:42 > 0:02:45a pay rise to nurses as part of a bid to take on Labour.
0:02:45 > 0:02:48But that hasn't impressed Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell.
0:02:48 > 0:02:51He's spoken to a number of papers and is calling for an emergency
0:02:51 > 0:02:53budget to invest in public services and help struggling households.
0:02:53 > 0:02:57So that's a taste of what you might hear on Wednesday and Mr Hammond
0:02:57 > 0:02:59and Mr McDonnell have both been appearing this morning
0:02:59 > 0:03:03on the Andrew Marr Show.
0:03:03 > 0:03:06I think Britain has a very bright future ahead of it,
0:03:06 > 0:03:08and we have to embrace the opportunities that
0:03:08 > 0:03:10a post-Brexit world will offer.
0:03:10 > 0:03:13They will be opportunities that are based on huge change,
0:03:13 > 0:03:16huge technological evolution.
0:03:16 > 0:03:19It's not always going to be easy, but the British people have shown
0:03:19 > 0:03:22time and time again that we're up for these challenges.
0:03:22 > 0:03:25For many people out there, this is a depression.
0:03:25 > 0:03:29We've had people whose wages have been cut by 10%.
0:03:29 > 0:03:30Nurses, for example.
0:03:30 > 0:03:33We've had people who are now...
0:03:33 > 0:03:381.25 million food parcels handed out in the sixth richest
0:03:38 > 0:03:39country in the world.
0:03:39 > 0:03:47That's what I call a recession for large numbers of people.
0:03:47 > 0:03:52We will be talking about Labour and their economic policies in a moment,
0:03:52 > 0:03:56but let's start with what we might expect from the budget. We will talk
0:03:56 > 0:04:01to our panel of political observers. Philip Hammond is under pressure to
0:04:01 > 0:04:05set out a bold vision and reset the government's programme. Can we
0:04:05 > 0:04:11expect that?No, we can't. We have heard enough from the Chancellor
0:04:11 > 0:04:15across various broadcast and his article in the Sunday Times. I think
0:04:15 > 0:04:24we will not be getting a bold budget. His precise words short... A
0:04:24 > 0:04:26short time ago were a balanced budget. Some Tory hearts will think.
0:04:26 > 0:04:32They desperately want something to go out and shout about, something to
0:04:32 > 0:04:36capture people's imagination, and do big and bold things, like how on
0:04:36 > 0:04:41earth are they going to build those new 300,000 houses a year? There are
0:04:41 > 0:04:49good reasons why he has chosen what appears to be a pretty staid,
0:04:49 > 0:04:53Conservative budget, and that is that they are probably unable to get
0:04:53 > 0:04:57anything bold through Parliament. His capital is so low among Tory
0:04:57 > 0:05:06MPs. If you have a minority government, it is tricky.We have
0:05:06 > 0:05:08seen ministers on programmes like this in the last few weeks putting
0:05:08 > 0:05:14in the bids for what they would like spending on, whether it be payment
0:05:14 > 0:05:18for nurses or parliament. Would he struggled to get something radical
0:05:18 > 0:05:23through the Commons?Big ideas cost money. That's the problem. Bold
0:05:23 > 0:05:29ideas are controversial. In some ways, Tory MPs are asking their
0:05:29 > 0:05:33Chancellor to do the impossible. Government is already doing
0:05:33 > 0:05:38something big and bold, which is Brexit. That has implications for
0:05:38 > 0:05:42how much money is available, how many risks you want to take with
0:05:42 > 0:05:47everything else. What is crucial is that he demonstrates a reputation
0:05:47 > 0:05:53for competence. The reputation that the Conservative government has for
0:05:53 > 0:05:57economic competence, that many people prefer them to Labour on the
0:05:57 > 0:06:01issue of economic competence. The worst thing he could do is come up
0:06:01 > 0:06:06with a big, bold idea that unravelled quickly. What they
0:06:06 > 0:06:11absolutely don't want is to come up with an exciting idea that falls
0:06:11 > 0:06:16apart three days after the budget. He is under pressure from
0:06:16 > 0:06:19Brexiteers, who are suspicious of him. Does he have to offer them
0:06:19 > 0:06:24something?Part of his problem is he has to offer so many different
0:06:24 > 0:06:27people different things. This is Philip Hammond trying to be and
0:06:27 > 0:06:36dynamic.It is hard to tell sometimes.At least in theoretical
0:06:36 > 0:06:44terms. His longer-term difficulty is that, if you look at the economic
0:06:44 > 0:06:50cycle, we are getting to a point where we are probably overdue, if
0:06:50 > 0:06:55you put Brexit to one side, overdue some kind of correction or downturn,
0:06:55 > 0:07:00if you look what has happened to asset prices globally. What will be
0:07:00 > 0:07:06worrying for the Treasury is, just as everyone is saying we should turn
0:07:06 > 0:07:12on the taps and build this or that, we might be at the top of a cycle,
0:07:12 > 0:07:16and the Treasury will want to lose something in the armoury in terms of
0:07:16 > 0:07:19probably growing the deficit if there are economic difficulties in
0:07:19 > 0:07:24the next two years, and then there is Brexit as well.It sounds
0:07:24 > 0:07:29impossible.I think so. Talking to his friends and colleagues over the
0:07:29 > 0:07:35last few days, he had to make a call, which was precisely how much
0:07:35 > 0:07:40can I get away with, with my political capital being as low as it
0:07:40 > 0:07:47is, with the mixed problems he had at the last budget, and a lot of the
0:07:47 > 0:07:51party disliking his approach to Brexit. He is damned if he is,
0:07:51 > 0:08:01damned if he doesn't. Universal Credit, we are expecting a reduction
0:08:01 > 0:08:08in the time it takes to wait, business rates, affected by high
0:08:08 > 0:08:12inflation... I think we will see a problem fixing budget which will
0:08:12 > 0:08:18probably do quite a lot of important spadework in many areas.We will
0:08:18 > 0:08:23pick up on some of this later in the programme.
0:08:23 > 0:08:25Let's speak now to the Conservative MP Jacob Rees-Mogg, this week
0:08:25 > 0:08:28he helpfully launched an alternative "budget for Brexit" and advised
0:08:28 > 0:08:30the Chancellor to be less gloomy about the consequences
0:08:30 > 0:08:34of leaving the EU.
0:08:34 > 0:08:38Thank you for joining us. Your alternative budget is pretty
0:08:38 > 0:08:47radical. Almost half corporation tax, Cap Stamp duty to help the
0:08:47 > 0:08:51London market. It seems you are advocating the opposite from what we
0:08:51 > 0:08:56will hear from your Chancellor on Wednesday.There are two parts to
0:08:56 > 0:09:00the proposals I suggested. One is that we should show that after we
0:09:00 > 0:09:05have left the European Union, the UK is open to the rest of the world. It
0:09:05 > 0:09:09is about opening up to the rest of the world. Secondly, looking at the
0:09:09 > 0:09:15modelling that has been done by the Treasury and some other forecasters,
0:09:15 > 0:09:19which has been so comprehensively wrong. The forecasts made about what
0:09:19 > 0:09:26would happen after Brexit have turned out to be hopelessly false.
0:09:26 > 0:09:32The team at Cardiff University have done some modelling based on the
0:09:32 > 0:09:35classical economic principles and what happens if you move to free
0:09:35 > 0:09:40trade that would be very positive for the economy.You are predicting
0:09:40 > 0:09:48a Brexit dividend of £135 billion, which sounds fantastic. Why are you
0:09:48 > 0:09:52right, and everybody else, including the Bank of England and the
0:09:52 > 0:09:55Institute for Fiscal Studies, why are they all wrong?It depends on
0:09:55 > 0:10:01the type of modelling. The modelling that have been done by the Treasury
0:10:01 > 0:10:05have been based on gravity models, which work on the basis of the
0:10:05 > 0:10:09nearness of the market and the size of the economy you are trading with.
0:10:09 > 0:10:14These have been wrong in the past. They predicted that if we joined the
0:10:14 > 0:10:21euro, trade would grow by 300%. That was then revised down to 200%, but
0:10:21 > 0:10:27it is fantasyland. The model I am working on, by Sir Patrick Minford,
0:10:27 > 0:10:36who has a record of getting these things right. He was right about the
0:10:36 > 0:10:40exchange rate mechanism, right about the euro.Being right in the past
0:10:40 > 0:10:45doesn't mean you are right about the future. Why do you think the
0:10:45 > 0:10:49Treasury will not pick up the same numbers, if this is so obvious to
0:10:49 > 0:10:54you?I think the Treasury was humiliated by the errors in its
0:10:54 > 0:11:00forecast prior to Brexit, and is trying to defend its position. The
0:11:00 > 0:11:03short-term economic consequences of a vote to leave was one of the most
0:11:03 > 0:11:09dishonest documents to come out of the Treasury, purely a piece of
0:11:09 > 0:11:12political propaganda. They are wounded by that and sticking to the
0:11:12 > 0:11:17same script, rather than looking at other forecasts and other experts.
0:11:17 > 0:11:21You think the governor of the Bank of England is an enemy of Brexit,
0:11:21 > 0:11:25and it sounds like you think the Treasury is opposed to it. As the
0:11:25 > 0:11:30Chancellor fallen under their spell as well, and been persuaded to be an
0:11:30 > 0:11:36enemy of Brexit?I have admiration the Chancellor, but George Osborne,
0:11:36 > 0:11:41his predecessor, was the architect of Project Fear. He was too close to
0:11:41 > 0:11:45the Bank of England and lost his independence. That is what needs to
0:11:45 > 0:11:52change. It is an opportunity in the budget for Philip Hammond to show he
0:11:52 > 0:11:56is putting aside the Treasury's mistakes in the past. It is very
0:11:56 > 0:12:02encouraging what he is saying this morning, about a more positive
0:12:02 > 0:12:07approach to Brexit.Lord Lawson has accused Philip Hammond of being very
0:12:07 > 0:12:14close to sabotage on Brexit. He says we need a can-do man at the Treasury
0:12:14 > 0:12:18and not a prophet of doom.I think that Philip Hammond is an
0:12:18 > 0:12:22exceptionally intelligent man, a very thoughtful man. It is not a bad
0:12:22 > 0:12:27thing to have a Chancellor who is serious minded and steady, rather
0:12:27 > 0:12:33than one who is a showman and uses the Exchequer to interfere in
0:12:33 > 0:12:38absolutely everything.I have a lot of confidence in the Chancellor.
0:12:38 > 0:12:42When you launched your budget for Brexit, you said the government has
0:12:42 > 0:12:49to deliver the £350 million for the NHS that was delivered during the
0:12:49 > 0:12:52referendum, even though you didn't think that promise should have been
0:12:52 > 0:12:57made. Is that something they now need to deliver wrong?It is. This
0:12:57 > 0:13:02only happens once we have left. Politicians have to recognise that
0:13:02 > 0:13:09voters don't look at the small print of electoral policies. If you put
0:13:09 > 0:13:15£350 million on the side of a bus and say it may be available for the
0:13:15 > 0:13:21NHS, it is reasonable for people to think that is a promise. Brexit was
0:13:21 > 0:13:26won by the Leave campaign, so it it is important that they deliver on
0:13:26 > 0:13:31that promise. Politicians must keep faith with voters and deliver on
0:13:31 > 0:13:35implied promises, as well as ones that are set out in detail.The
0:13:35 > 0:13:40Cabinet will move on to talk about the Brexit bill this week, and we
0:13:40 > 0:13:44understand they may need to come up with more money to satisfy EU
0:13:44 > 0:13:48demands. The more money spent on that is less money available for
0:13:48 > 0:13:54things like spending on the NHS. Are you worried about the size of the
0:13:54 > 0:14:00exit bill?You have your finger on the important point. The government
0:14:00 > 0:14:04will have to choose whether to give lots of money to the European Union,
0:14:04 > 0:14:09or whether to spend money on UK public services, and that will be
0:14:09 > 0:14:14part of the negotiation. On all these issues, it comes down to
0:14:14 > 0:14:19choice is the government makes. I would encourage the government to
0:14:19 > 0:14:23choose our own domestic public services rather than expensive
0:14:23 > 0:14:27schemes in continent or Europe.Why are you advocating that the
0:14:27 > 0:14:36government should spend up to £2.5 billion on a no deal scenario?
0:14:36 > 0:14:41It is important that we are ready to leave in the event of no deal. If we
0:14:41 > 0:14:48left with no deal we would on current figures still be saving the
0:14:48 > 0:14:54remains of 18 billion so we would be saving 15 and a half billion against
0:14:54 > 0:14:58paying for the financial framework. To show we're ready on day one would
0:14:58 > 0:15:06be money well spent and most would be needed any way. We need to have
0:15:06 > 0:15:10new customs arrangements in place even if it is not for a no deal
0:15:10 > 0:15:13situation.There are suggestions that the Government might back down
0:15:13 > 0:15:17on the idea of putting the time and date of leaving the EU on the face
0:15:17 > 0:15:21of the bill. Would you be Exxon certained if that was -- concerned
0:15:21 > 0:15:29if that was remove prd the bill?It is in Article 50, unless Article 50
0:15:29 > 0:15:40is extended by the Council of Europe we leave on 20th March 2019 and it
0:15:40 > 0:15:44makes accepts that should be the same in -- sense that should be in
0:15:44 > 0:15:47same in domestic law. But that is a secondary concern from my point of
0:15:47 > 0:15:52view. It is important that we leave on that date.Stay there if you
0:15:52 > 0:15:54would.
0:15:54 > 0:15:56We're joined in the studio by the former minister
0:15:56 > 0:15:57Stephen Hammond.
0:15:57 > 0:16:00He's no relation to the Chancellor, but he is a member
0:16:00 > 0:16:03of the Treasury Select Committee and he's one of the Tory MPs named
0:16:03 > 0:16:04as "Brexit mutineers" by the Daily Telegraph
0:16:04 > 0:16:07this week - lucky him.
0:16:07 > 0:16:12I'm assured you're no relation to the Chancellor. Let's just pick up
0:16:12 > 0:16:20on what Jacob Rees Mogg was saying. How important is it to you as a
0:16:20 > 0:16:26rebel that the Government does put the date on.I agree with Jacob it
0:16:26 > 0:16:31is in the Article 50 process, the key reason it is important is the
0:16:31 > 0:16:35negotiations look like they're going to be tricky and longer than we
0:16:35 > 0:16:42expected and it may well be that we are still negotiating up until March
0:16:42 > 0:16:472019. We could have a short couple of weeks period of extension. Why do
0:16:47 > 0:16:52harm to the economy by falling out on a precise time? If those
0:16:52 > 0:16:56negotiations need to be extended. They won't go on for more than a
0:16:56 > 0:17:00couple of weeks, because there will be elections in Europe in June 2019
0:17:00 > 0:17:05and there is no chance of a new commission or Parliament dealing
0:17:05 > 0:17:11with this. Giving it flexibility and with this flexibility the government
0:17:11 > 0:17:14said it wants flexibility in negotiations, why give all the
0:17:14 > 0:17:21advantage to the other side? Part of that was evidenced yesterday by
0:17:21 > 0:17:24somebody suggesting they will ask for the Margaret Thatcher rebate to
0:17:24 > 0:17:29be suspended. That is as a result of putting the date on the bill.You
0:17:29 > 0:17:32did not agree with the Brexit committee and think it is important
0:17:32 > 0:17:38that we set the date and time?I think it is perfectly reasonable to
0:17:38 > 0:17:42set the date and time and I think these negotiations fill the time
0:17:42 > 0:17:47available. The United States and Australia agreed a free trade deal
0:17:47 > 0:17:53between April 2003 and February 2004. These things don't need to be
0:17:53 > 0:17:57interm Knabl if both sides want to agree. I think the British
0:17:57 > 0:18:02electorate would be very concerned if nearly three years after the vote
0:18:02 > 0:18:05to leave, we still hadn't left. I think most people expected that we
0:18:05 > 0:18:10would have left by now. The negotiations realistically to get
0:18:10 > 0:18:14through the approval of the European Parliament and so on need to be
0:18:14 > 0:18:18completed by at the end of next year, going up to the last minute I
0:18:18 > 0:18:23don't think is real is tick.To move on to talk about a trade deal and
0:18:23 > 0:18:29getting that done, the EU need to agree to move on and we need to
0:18:29 > 0:18:32settle the divorce, cabinet are going to be talking about the amount
0:18:32 > 0:18:39that needs to be spent on that, Stephen what manned, are you happy
0:18:39 > 0:18:43for the Government to offer more?I hope that the Government will stick
0:18:43 > 0:18:48to the Florence speech in terms of ensuring that we fulfil our
0:18:48 > 0:18:53liabilities and obligations. I'm not clear exactly whether that is 20
0:18:53 > 0:18:57billion or 40 billion and I'm not sure the government is. If part of
0:18:57 > 0:19:01the divorce bill is then some settlement for getting the trade
0:19:01 > 0:19:07deal, we will need to examine that carefully.Jacob Rees Mogg, is this
0:19:07 > 0:19:12that might spark another war in the party if the cabinet suggest they're
0:19:12 > 0:19:18prepared to pay more?I think we need to go back to what you said,
0:19:18 > 0:19:28that the - the EU said they want us to settle the money first. The
0:19:28 > 0:19:32Government doesn't need to follow that. They need our money. If we
0:19:32 > 0:19:39don't pay any money for the final 21 months of the framework, the EU has
0:19:39 > 0:19:45about 20 billion pounds gap in its finances and it has no legal
0:19:45 > 0:19:49requirement to borrow. So it insolvents or the Germans and the
0:19:49 > 0:19:53others pay more. So our position on money is very strong and we
0:19:53 > 0:19:58shouldn't fall into the trap of thinking just because Mr Barnier
0:19:58 > 0:20:03said it it is as if he has received tablets of stone like Moses, he has
0:20:03 > 0:20:11not.There is a sense that the Government feels a mo generous offer
0:20:11 > 0:20:16would set a good tone, the kind of approach that Jacob Rees Mogg
0:20:16 > 0:20:21suggests would not make for smooth relations.It probably wouldn't. But
0:20:21 > 0:20:26we have to be clear what we are paying for and what we are getting.
0:20:26 > 0:20:31No one is suggesting we should hand over money without proper scrutiny.
0:20:31 > 0:20:37It may be appropriate to put money to facilitate international trade to
0:20:37 > 0:20:41secure jobs. We have to be careful about the analysis about what the
0:20:41 > 0:20:47scale and size of Brexit dividend is and the size of payments will be.
0:20:47 > 0:20:53You mustn't confuse gross and net and there is disagreement about some
0:20:53 > 0:20:59of the numbers.On that, Jacob Rees Mogg in his budget for Brexit
0:20:59 > 0:21:05suggests in five years time we would have a 135 billion Brexit bonus. Do
0:21:05 > 0:21:12you think it is real is tick.He is using some analysis that has some
0:21:12 > 0:21:19flaws. It is predicting a price drop in the United Kingdom of 10%. Tariff
0:21:19 > 0:21:25drops will only be 3 or 4%. It is predicting huge productivity gains,
0:21:25 > 0:21:30the likes of which we have not seen in 20 years. Thirdly, despite his
0:21:30 > 0:21:36view on modellers there is evidence that they weren't and if you go into
0:21:36 > 0:21:43the detail of the analysis, some of the data is 14 years out of date.
0:21:43 > 0:21:48Jacob Rees Mogg, you're being hopelessly optimistic?I don't think
0:21:48 > 0:21:53that right. I think the fall in prices comes because you make the
0:21:53 > 0:21:57economy more competitive and you take away tariffs which reduces the
0:21:57 > 0:22:04price of food by 20%. That is a big reduction. Bear in mind that the
0:22:04 > 0:22:08biggest tariffs hit food, clothing and foot wear that, harm the poorest
0:22:08 > 0:22:15in society the most. The gains from productivity come from is in
0:22:15 > 0:22:23additional tariffs. Leading to other saving and further investment I
0:22:23 > 0:22:26think the modelling done by the professor is as good as modelling
0:22:26 > 0:22:32can be. That doesn't mean it is infallible. The failure of gravity
0:22:32 > 0:22:39model is well known.Michael Gove was accused of auditioning for the
0:22:39 > 0:22:46job of Chancellor by using long words. Do you know any good long
0:22:46 > 0:22:50economic words?I don't think that we want to get into this type of
0:22:50 > 0:22:54business actually. I think all Conservatives and Steven and I very
0:22:54 > 0:23:00much agree on this, want to show as united a front as we can manage.
0:23:00 > 0:23:04There are differences on some aspects of policy, but in terms of
0:23:04 > 0:23:06individuals we want to stand together and support the best
0:23:06 > 0:23:12interests of the government.Thank you.
0:23:12 > 0:23:14Brexit Secretary David Davis was in Berlin this week trying
0:23:14 > 0:23:16to win the support of business leaders there for a comprehensive
0:23:16 > 0:23:18free trade deal with the EU.
0:23:18 > 0:23:21He warned them against putting 'politics above prosperity'
0:23:21 > 0:23:26and reportedly got a bit of a frosty reception.
0:23:26 > 0:23:29Well, the former Labour MP Gisela Stuart was one of the leaders
0:23:29 > 0:23:30of the Vote Leave referendum campaign.
0:23:30 > 0:23:33We travelled with Gisela to Germany to meet the business leaders
0:23:33 > 0:23:36she says will help secure a good trade deal for the UK.
0:23:36 > 0:23:39Here's her film.
0:23:46 > 0:23:49I was born and brought up in this part of Germany,
0:23:49 > 0:23:52and although I've lived in the UK for the past 40 years,
0:23:52 > 0:23:56and represented the constituency of Birmingham and Edgbaston for 20
0:23:56 > 0:24:01years, my family still live here, and I've kept many links.
0:24:04 > 0:24:07I was chair of Vote Leave, and together with only a handful
0:24:07 > 0:24:09of other Labour MPs, we campaigned to leave
0:24:09 > 0:24:12the European Union because we thought the country would be
0:24:12 > 0:24:14better off outside.
0:24:14 > 0:24:17It's hard to remember now, but back in the 1970s, when we joined
0:24:17 > 0:24:21the European Economic Community, people thought that by joining
0:24:21 > 0:24:25the club we would see the kind of economic miracle Germany
0:24:25 > 0:24:28experienced in the '70s back home.
0:24:28 > 0:24:30The "Deutsche Wirtschaftswunder" would come to Britain.
0:24:30 > 0:24:35But, of course, it didn't.
0:24:37 > 0:24:40Within a few short years of the devastation of World War II,
0:24:40 > 0:24:43Germany had emerged as the largest economy in Europe.
0:24:43 > 0:24:44Germany's extraordinary success is down to
0:24:44 > 0:24:49the pragmatism of its business.
0:24:49 > 0:24:54German Mittelstand is family dominated, forward-thinking,
0:24:54 > 0:25:00long-term thinking, reliability, are very important values.
0:25:00 > 0:25:02Changing moods on a political landscape and changing frameworks
0:25:02 > 0:25:05are toxic for our way of doing business, and we want
0:25:05 > 0:25:12that to go away.
0:25:12 > 0:25:17German business is not given to making big political statements
0:25:17 > 0:25:20out of step with government policy, but talk to those in decision-making
0:25:20 > 0:25:23positions, and it is clear that they want to secure a good deal
0:25:23 > 0:25:26with the United Kingdom.
0:25:26 > 0:25:29BMW employs almost 90,000 people here in Germany,
0:25:29 > 0:25:33and exports just under 1 million cars annually.
0:25:33 > 0:25:38The UK is a vital market.
0:25:38 > 0:25:42What we are really seeking right now is more clarity, more certainty,
0:25:42 > 0:25:46because in our cycle of investment, cycle of development,
0:25:46 > 0:25:51it's about a seven-year or so period that we look at,
0:25:51 > 0:25:55but we are now, of course, starting to think about what comes next,
0:25:55 > 0:25:58and what we need to see now is what is going to be
0:25:58 > 0:26:01the trading relationship, how are the logistics going to look,
0:26:01 > 0:26:03what is going to be the requirements for people
0:26:03 > 0:26:06moving across the continent?
0:26:06 > 0:26:08Because all of these things are important to us today.
0:26:08 > 0:26:12And, by the way, they will be just as important tomorrow.
0:26:12 > 0:26:14Berlin is well aware that if the European Commission
0:26:14 > 0:26:18is allowed to put up trade barriers against Britain, it will be
0:26:18 > 0:26:20German business, German consumers and German employees
0:26:20 > 0:26:24who will suffer.
0:26:24 > 0:26:26TRANSLATION:I think it's very important that we complete
0:26:26 > 0:26:28the first phase successfully.
0:26:28 > 0:26:32The first phase of the negotiations, which looks at the financial
0:26:32 > 0:26:34consequences of Great Britain leaving the EU.
0:26:34 > 0:26:38And then it's not a question of punishment payments.
0:26:38 > 0:26:40It's about when you are part of a multilayer, contractual
0:26:40 > 0:26:44obligation and you want to leave that, then of course it takes
0:26:44 > 0:26:47a whole lot of obligations which you have to deal with,
0:26:47 > 0:26:56so both sides are satisfied and can live with the consequences.
0:26:56 > 0:27:00It isn't everyone's interests for the UK to part on good terms.
0:27:00 > 0:27:04Of course there was going to be upset when the UK voted to leave,
0:27:04 > 0:27:07but creating uncertainty over the terms of UK's exit will simply
0:27:07 > 0:27:12have a disruptive effect on exports to UK markets.
0:27:12 > 0:27:16Far better to have a sensible, amicable negotiation that results
0:27:16 > 0:27:18both sides being able to trade together and work
0:27:18 > 0:27:25together post-Brexit.
0:27:25 > 0:27:27Markus Krall is managing director of Goetzpartners,
0:27:27 > 0:27:28and heads the Financial Institution Industry Group.
0:27:28 > 0:27:34Is it true to say that, if we negotiate Brexit well,
0:27:34 > 0:27:36then a good Brexit can actually strengthen the United Kingdom,
0:27:36 > 0:27:37the European Union and Germany?
0:27:37 > 0:27:39It's absolutely true.
0:27:39 > 0:27:42I think that this is about two things.
0:27:42 > 0:27:47One, about proving that free trade is possible
0:27:47 > 0:27:51between a European Union that is smaller and a former member country.
0:27:51 > 0:27:54If you don't prove that free trade is possible there,
0:27:54 > 0:27:58then the question becomes, what is Europe standing for?
0:27:58 > 0:28:03Number two is, I also believe the free trade,
0:28:03 > 0:28:07free market and democratic and less bureaucratic approach that Britain
0:28:07 > 0:28:09has chosen as the path into the future is a role
0:28:09 > 0:28:12model for Europe.
0:28:12 > 0:28:15The time has come both for the United Kingdom
0:28:15 > 0:28:18and for the EU to be more clear about what kind of
0:28:18 > 0:28:20deal we can achieve.
0:28:20 > 0:28:23Both sides need to be bold.
0:28:23 > 0:28:26As long as we remain open to free trade and sensible co-operation,
0:28:26 > 0:28:31we can arrive at something that will benefit both sides.
0:28:31 > 0:28:35But one thing's obvious - if we are an open and free trading
0:28:35 > 0:28:37economy, we've got one big cheerleader on our side,
0:28:37 > 0:28:43and that is German business.
0:28:43 > 0:28:45That was Gisela Stuart setting out her case
0:28:45 > 0:28:47and we'll be hearing from the opposite side
0:28:47 > 0:28:49of the argument in the coming weeks.
0:28:49 > 0:28:51Gisela Stuart joins us in the studio now, as does Alastair Campbell.
0:28:51 > 0:28:54He used to work for Tony Blair in Number 10, set up
0:28:54 > 0:28:56the New European Newspaper to campaign against Brexit,
0:28:56 > 0:28:58and is so pro-European that at this year's Labour conference
0:28:58 > 0:29:01he was heard playing Ode to Joy on the bagpipes.
0:29:01 > 0:29:06Welcome both of you.
0:29:06 > 0:29:10We will start with your point in the film, that you think the German
0:29:10 > 0:29:15business once the EU to offer the UK a generous deal because it is in
0:29:15 > 0:29:19their interests, yet the president of the German equivalent of the CBI
0:29:19 > 0:29:25said that defending the single market must be the priority for the
0:29:25 > 0:29:30EU, and another says that the cohesion of the remaining member
0:29:30 > 0:29:37states remains the highest priority. The president of the CBI just after
0:29:37 > 0:29:42the referendum said that it would be in nobody 's interest to introduce
0:29:42 > 0:29:50tariffs and trade barriers. On the UK side, I don't think there's a
0:29:50 > 0:29:53full understanding that economic interests are incredibly important,
0:29:53 > 0:30:01that they are trying to cover economic interests on the cohesion
0:30:01 > 0:30:05of the 27. I think different economic interests will raise the
0:30:05 > 0:30:12head of different countries. The German auto industry is as important
0:30:12 > 0:30:18as the financial sector is here. The banking crisis is far from over, but
0:30:18 > 0:30:24the big riffs which were going on is that the E U is losing its second
0:30:24 > 0:30:29biggest net contributor. Countries like Germany want a deal with the UK
0:30:29 > 0:30:35that is a free open market. There are other tensions in the EU that
0:30:35 > 0:30:39wants to become more protectionist, and that is a bad thing.Looking at
0:30:39 > 0:30:47the film there with the Jacob Rees-Mogg interview. No matter what
0:30:47 > 0:30:53side of leave you are, it is delusional and all driven by wishful
0:30:53 > 0:30:57thinking. You could find a businessman who says Brexit will be
0:30:57 > 0:31:01good for Germany. The vast bulk of British businesses think this is a
0:31:01 > 0:31:05disaster, as do the vast bulk of European businesses. One of the
0:31:05 > 0:31:10delusions on which they ran their campaign is the idea that they need
0:31:10 > 0:31:17us more than we need them. That is not true.Be you self about £80
0:31:17 > 0:31:21billion more in goods and services into the UK than we do to them, and
0:31:21 > 0:31:26Germany has one of the biggest deficits. It is in their interest.
0:31:26 > 0:31:31Of course it is, but it is a myth that they need us more than we need
0:31:31 > 0:31:38them. The damage that will be done to us, even with a good deal. Let's
0:31:38 > 0:31:44be frank, where these negotiations are, Theresa May is either going to
0:31:44 > 0:31:50end up with a bad deal and dumber or no Deal. A bad deal is bad, and a no
0:31:50 > 0:31:57deal is a catastrophe.You are setting up ideas that which were not
0:31:57 > 0:32:04there to begin with and knocking them down. Delusional.35 billion,
0:32:04 > 0:32:09the Brexit bonus.If we had a referendum, it was a democratic
0:32:09 > 0:32:13decision. I know you don't like it and that a lot of business would
0:32:13 > 0:32:18have preferred to stay with the status quo. We have had the
0:32:18 > 0:32:23referendum. Undermining political institutions is in no one's
0:32:23 > 0:32:29interests. It is functioning democracies which lead to economic
0:32:29 > 0:32:36stability.Theresa May fought an election Inc on a hard Brexit that
0:32:36 > 0:32:49was rejected.As we heard from BMW, there is uncertainty for business.
0:32:49 > 0:32:54There will be elections, European elections, in 2019. There will be a
0:32:54 > 0:32:59change of the Commission and the parliament. We have a narrow window
0:32:59 > 0:33:02to implement the mandate for the referendum which Parliament voted
0:33:02 > 0:33:09for. So rather than you undermining this country, why don't you work
0:33:09 > 0:33:14together to get the best deal? Because we totally disagree.You
0:33:14 > 0:33:20don't want a good deal?I'm in favour of a good deal, and I could
0:33:20 > 0:33:25give them some advice as to how they get a good deal. First, you have a
0:33:25 > 0:33:31cabinet that has an agreed strategy. 18 months in, they don't have that.
0:33:31 > 0:33:36I am not undermining a deal. I am continuing to pose questions about
0:33:36 > 0:33:43what they are trying to do and how they are trying to do it. This is
0:33:43 > 0:33:48democracy. Democracy is the ability for Parliament, which is not doing
0:33:48 > 0:33:52its job properly, and the public, to keep scrutinising, and if they want
0:33:52 > 0:33:58to change their mind, having the right to do that.You were trying to
0:33:58 > 0:34:03encourage the Taoiseach yesterday to play hardball with the UK.I am on
0:34:03 > 0:34:08the side of the UK, and I am worried that if we go down the path that we
0:34:08 > 0:34:12are being taken down, and Theresa May and Boris Johnson and the rest
0:34:12 > 0:34:18of them, this shambolic path, we are going to do fundamental, lasting
0:34:18 > 0:34:22damage to the country we love. I don't care about the Civil Aviation
0:34:22 > 0:34:28Authority. I care about Britain. -- I don't care about the European
0:34:28 > 0:34:37Union. If every lorry going into the UK today was stopped for just two
0:34:37 > 0:34:42minutes, we would create an instant 17 mile traffic jam. These people
0:34:42 > 0:34:46just don't care...I am not these people!
0:34:46 > 0:34:51people! Let us not conflate...
0:34:51 > 0:34:54people! Let us not conflate... You either decide that you are
0:34:54 > 0:34:59implementing a democratic decision of a referendum that was called and
0:34:59 > 0:35:07over 17 million voted.You will not stop me debating it.
0:35:07 > 0:35:10stop me debating it. Just as Nigel Farage...Stop talking about Nigel
0:35:10 > 0:35:12Farrell Raj.
0:35:12 > 0:35:18Farrell Raj. Vote Leave was not Nigel Farage.
0:35:18 > 0:35:21Nigel Farage. There is no desire in Germany to punish the United
0:35:21 > 0:35:25Kingdom.
0:35:25 > 0:35:28Kingdom.They are behaving reasonably.There is a battle of
0:35:28 > 0:35:33protectionism and free market going on. If we implement this properly,
0:35:33 > 0:35:38give businesses the kind of incentives they want, we can get a
0:35:38 > 0:35:46good deal. So you want a bad deal? You are driven by wishful thinking.
0:35:46 > 0:35:49You are driven by wishful thinking. Gisela Stuart, you are saying that
0:35:49 > 0:35:52business will intervene to prevent things like tariffs being put in
0:35:52 > 0:35:57place? They are leaving it a bit late to put pressure on.You will
0:35:57 > 0:36:01find that business is laying out the kind of things they need to get
0:36:01 > 0:36:05those deals. I can find as much fault with the speed of the
0:36:05 > 0:36:10progress, but what I really do resent is that you are actually
0:36:10 > 0:36:18encouraging other countries to undermine...Know I am not! I spoke
0:36:18 > 0:36:20undermine...Know I am not! I spoke out in support of the Irish
0:36:20 > 0:36:24Taoiseach because I spent a lot of time with Tony Blair and his team on
0:36:24 > 0:36:28the Good Friday Agreement. The people who are driving this hard
0:36:28 > 0:36:33Brexit without thinking it through, still no answer on how you do Brexit
0:36:33 > 0:36:38in our island without a hard border. I think the Irish Taoiseach is right
0:36:38 > 0:36:42to
0:36:42 > 0:36:45to call out the government on the incompetence and the fact they have
0:36:45 > 0:36:49not thought it through.You accept the result of the referendum and the
0:36:49 > 0:36:55fact that we will be leaving the EU? I accept the result of the
0:36:55 > 0:37:00referendum, but I do not accept that the country will definitely leave,
0:37:00 > 0:37:04because the country is entitled to change its mind. As the chaos and
0:37:04 > 0:37:06costs
0:37:06 > 0:37:10costs mount, the public is entitled to change its mind and will change
0:37:10 > 0:37:17its mind.There is no evidence at the moment.Come out with me!Allow
0:37:17 > 0:37:20me to finish the sentence.
0:37:20 > 0:37:24me to finish the sentence. There is a changing of mind happening, a
0:37:24 > 0:37:26crystallisation.
0:37:26 > 0:37:32crystallisation. Unlike you, I have fought five elections and I have won
0:37:32 > 0:37:37five elections. I have probably spoken to more people like you.You
0:37:37 > 0:37:42may do, I'm just saying, come out on the road with me...
0:37:42 > 0:37:45the road with me...40% of the population in the middle just want
0:37:45 > 0:37:49us to get on with it. What that film showed is that
0:37:49 > 0:37:53showed is that if you want to make it a self-fulfilling prophecy that
0:37:53 > 0:37:58it's a disaster, which I don't. I want to implement a deal that is
0:37:58 > 0:38:00good for British jobs.
0:38:00 > 0:38:07good for British jobs. The rest of the world is changing in terms
0:38:07 > 0:38:09the world is changing in terms of technology. Currently, Germany
0:38:09 > 0:38:14hasn't even got a government, and nobody is laughing about that.And
0:38:14 > 0:38:18they are stable without a government!Let's leave it there.
0:38:19 > 0:38:22It's coming up to 11.40, you're watching the Sunday Politics.
0:38:23 > 0:38:26Coming up on the programme, we'll be looking at the latest
0:38:26 > 0:38:28Good morning, and welcome to Sunday Politics Scotland.
0:38:28 > 0:38:31Coming up on the programme:
0:38:31 > 0:38:34600 jobs are saved, but how safe is the future of
0:38:34 > 0:38:37skilled manufacturing in Scotland?
0:38:37 > 0:38:40I'll be asking the Economy Secretary Keith Brown.
0:38:40 > 0:38:43Scottish Labour elects a new leader.
0:38:43 > 0:38:45And its old one heads off to the jungle.
0:38:45 > 0:38:49What reception will await her when she gets back?
0:38:49 > 0:38:55And if all that's not enough for you, how about a bit of this?
0:38:55 > 0:39:01As Robert Burns said, the gift they give us to see ourselves as others
0:39:01 > 0:39:02see us.
0:39:02 > 0:39:04It's been a rocky week for Scotland's renewable
0:39:04 > 0:39:06energy industry.
0:39:06 > 0:39:08Last weekend, one of the country's most prominent engineering firms -
0:39:08 > 0:39:10Burntisland Fabrications - said it was on the verge
0:39:10 > 0:39:11of going into administration.
0:39:11 > 0:39:14The company, which has yards in Fife and the Western Isles,
0:39:14 > 0:39:16is at the forefront of hopes for a global green
0:39:16 > 0:39:18energy revolution.
0:39:18 > 0:39:21Last night a deal was done to save BiFab, but the Scottish Government
0:39:21 > 0:39:23says more long-term work is needed.
0:39:23 > 0:39:32Andrew Black reports.
0:39:32 > 0:39:37I am delighted to say that after two days of intense discussions, we have
0:39:37 > 0:39:43just reached a deal to save BiFab from administration.It was the news
0:39:43 > 0:39:47everyone hoped for. Just two days ago, the future of Burntisland
0:39:47 > 0:39:52Fabrications hung in the balance. Employees working without pay,
0:39:52 > 0:39:57hoping for a rescue deal. Burntisland Fabrications is seen as
0:39:57 > 0:39:59a company with a promising future in Scotland pod like offshore energy
0:39:59 > 0:40:06sector. In 2011 it was manufacturing this cutting-edge wave energy
0:40:06 > 0:40:12device. Alex Salmond, then the First Minister, described BiFab as a
0:40:12 > 0:40:15Scottish success story. The company even got a visit from David Cameron,
0:40:15 > 0:40:19when he was by minister. Miller McDonnell things are looking rosy?
0:40:19 > 0:40:25But things were not looking so rosy this time last week, when
0:40:25 > 0:40:28campaign-mac announced it was going to point administrators. The problem
0:40:28 > 0:40:32centre on a payment dispute between the company and the Dutch owned
0:40:32 > 0:40:40contractor Seaway Heavy Lifting.
0:40:40 > 0:40:42contractor Seaway Heavy Lifting. Come on, come Hay!By Thursday with
0:40:42 > 0:40:46the resolution in sight, the workers and their families marched on the
0:40:46 > 0:40:51Scottish Parliament.Visitors one of the measures to come here today and
0:40:51 > 0:40:55try to lobby Parliament and hope they can sort it out. Grigg it has
0:40:55 > 0:40:59not been good, no one knows what is going to happen. That is the
0:40:59 > 0:41:07worrying part.Are the politicians going to help us?We're working for
0:41:07 > 0:41:10nothing does now, hopefully the Scottish Tubman can do something
0:41:10 > 0:41:16about it and get a contract.Inside Holyrood, the politicians grappled
0:41:16 > 0:41:19with the question of Carbery's future and the future of Scotland
0:41:19 > 0:41:24pod back entire green industry. No how can the workforce have
0:41:24 > 0:41:28confidence that the Government's transition plan will have urgent
0:41:28 > 0:41:33support for their jobs and many others that can be generatedin an
0:41:33 > 0:41:38industrial strategy that commits to fossil fuel the commission and our
0:41:38 > 0:41:42renewable industries instead?We have been trenchant in our
0:41:42 > 0:41:46commitment to renewables development.Yesterday morning key
0:41:46 > 0:41:52players in the Carbery dispute met the First Minister in Edinburgh, by
0:41:52 > 0:41:58tea-time a result to avoid administration, but...There are
0:41:58 > 0:42:02still a lot of work to be done for the long-term future of BiFab, and
0:42:02 > 0:42:07we will be working closely with the company and with the unions in the
0:42:07 > 0:42:11weeks and months ahead.This paves the way for the future. Work any
0:42:11 > 0:42:17renewable industry is supposed to be the jobs of the future.Despite the
0:42:17 > 0:42:20last week, the organisation representing Scotland pod like
0:42:20 > 0:42:25renewable industry is positive about the future.Carbery is part of a
0:42:25 > 0:42:31strong supply chain to serve ours in the global market. -- BiFab is part.
0:42:31 > 0:42:37It has got huge potential.BiFab has been making equipment for a major
0:42:37 > 0:42:41offshore wind farm in the Moray Firth. That contract will not be
0:42:41 > 0:42:45seen through. The question now is what needs to be done to support
0:42:45 > 0:42:48companies like BiFab in the future.
0:42:48 > 0:42:49So, what's gone right?
0:42:49 > 0:42:51I'm joined now by Economy Secretary Keith Brown,
0:42:51 > 0:42:55who helped broker the deal.
0:42:55 > 0:43:00Obviously it is good news that you managed to get this arrangement made
0:43:00 > 0:43:03yesterday, but Nicola Sturgeon was saying now that it is not a
0:43:03 > 0:43:08long-term deal. What does that mean? It is very good news, especially if
0:43:08 > 0:43:13you are an employee who was looking to a Christmas without wages. That
0:43:13 > 0:43:18is the most important thing. It is worth paying tribute to the
0:43:18 > 0:43:23workforce, trade unions, and all the partners that came to the table to
0:43:23 > 0:43:28work out a deal, break the logjam of a £50 million gap. The deal we have
0:43:28 > 0:43:33done allows us to see through the contract which is currently there,
0:43:33 > 0:43:38through to April next year. To keep people employed to do that. We are
0:43:38 > 0:43:43actively involved with some promising early signs in making sure
0:43:43 > 0:43:46we can win further work, see additional capital investment, and
0:43:46 > 0:43:52further training of the workforce. Ayes this goes on until April? This
0:43:52 > 0:43:59is the Moray Firth, making jackets for offshore wind turbines?Are you
0:43:59 > 0:44:06saying there is no work beyond that? There is potential for other work.
0:44:06 > 0:44:09This is the main contractor that the companies involved in, but there is
0:44:09 > 0:44:15a lot of potential, because of further prospects in the sector, but
0:44:15 > 0:44:20one thing that has been thrown out by this crisis during the course of
0:44:20 > 0:44:23the week we three times had to stop BiFab from going into
0:44:23 > 0:44:26administration, but one of the things that has come out of this is
0:44:26 > 0:44:30the regard with which the workforce is held internationally. The
0:44:30 > 0:44:36reputation of renewables...... What do you mean never going into
0:44:36 > 0:44:40reputation -- Administration three times? They had to have a deal, they
0:44:40 > 0:44:46could not sustain a situation with people working without wages. We
0:44:46 > 0:44:50have managed to avoid that. There's added certainty that these contracts
0:44:50 > 0:44:54will be seen through to April, but beyond that, the First Minister
0:44:54 > 0:44:58said, there is a huge amount of work to do. We will be actively involved
0:44:58 > 0:45:03in working with the company to make sure we get that longer term future.
0:45:03 > 0:45:06There is an issue about offshore renewables in Scotland. It was going
0:45:06 > 0:45:12to be a great new industry, but there are some of the biggest,
0:45:12 > 0:45:16largest offshore wind farms in Europe in the UK. But they are in
0:45:16 > 0:45:23England and Wales. This one any Moray Firth will go into service,
0:45:23 > 0:45:27not the only one in Scotland is at Robin Rake which is as near as a
0:45:27 > 0:45:31legacy can get without being in England. I has not happened in a way
0:45:31 > 0:45:36that we thought?
0:45:36 > 0:45:39that we thought? There are huge offshore wind farms of Lincolnshire,
0:45:39 > 0:45:43one of the biggest in Europe has just been put on the north coast of
0:45:43 > 0:45:48Wales. The Thames estuary is an enormous one. There may be
0:45:48 > 0:45:51potential, but why are they not here yet when we were told this would be
0:45:51 > 0:45:57such a great thing for Scotland? There is a huge field and further
0:45:57 > 0:46:04work behind that.That is not working yet.This is part of the
0:46:04 > 0:46:09process, these are the jackets... Noes what we were told was that this
0:46:09 > 0:46:13would be a new industry boss got in. We would be world leaders in the
0:46:13 > 0:46:18technology behind this. There is an offshore renewables centre in
0:46:18 > 0:46:25Britain, but a subpar at the moment it is Hull where they are building a
0:46:25 > 0:46:30huge yard. There was a post be a guard in Leith, that doesn't seem to
0:46:30 > 0:46:35be happening. Why didn't that happen in Scotland in the way that we were
0:46:35 > 0:46:39told it would? Melamed I don't agree. Whether it is come Hay, and
0:46:39 > 0:46:45the other company are a fundamental part of this.The workforce that
0:46:45 > 0:46:51they have, the expertise, very well-regarded centre, not just in
0:46:51 > 0:46:54Scotland or the UK but internationally, and we have a
0:46:54 > 0:46:58challenge to make sure we get more business. It is not just renewables
0:46:58 > 0:47:05in terms of offshore wind, other aspects, you have two...I am not
0:47:05 > 0:47:10trying to undermine the position that BiFab has as a leader in the
0:47:10 > 0:47:15thing it does, but any basic technology, like turbines, these are
0:47:15 > 0:47:21now companies in America and Germany and Denmark that are now world
0:47:21 > 0:47:26leaders. We have missed that boat. I take your point about things coming
0:47:26 > 0:47:30on stream, but that opportunity to make Scotland a world leader in the
0:47:30 > 0:47:36industry is gone.
0:47:36 > 0:47:39industry is gone.For my visit to North America three weeks ago, that
0:47:39 > 0:47:43is not the way Scotland is perceived. We are a centre of
0:47:43 > 0:47:48excellence in renewables, despite what you say, we are perceived to be
0:47:48 > 0:47:51excellent, we have pushed the boundaries in terms of renewables by
0:47:51 > 0:47:55the Parkview deals to put it centre of what we're doing in terms of that
0:47:55 > 0:48:00ship from oil and gas and we are very much involved as is come Hay.
0:48:00 > 0:48:05We have that international reputation.In which particular
0:48:05 > 0:48:15technology?What is being done currently at BiFab, the jackets.
0:48:15 > 0:48:18There is not the same expertise in the North America than it is here,
0:48:18 > 0:48:23and has a lot of interest over their bodies we are doing here. It is our
0:48:23 > 0:48:26job to continue to put that positive case of what we're doing in
0:48:26 > 0:48:29Scotland, that is part of the reason we're have managed to get the
0:48:29 > 0:48:33successful resolution to this particular problem. That is why we
0:48:33 > 0:48:41have a positive future with Mane and with the industry generally. -- with
0:48:41 > 0:48:48BiFab. We would like to take away the uncertainty over recent years
0:48:48 > 0:48:50which has undermined investment. We would like to see support and a
0:48:50 > 0:48:56commitment to work with the Scottish Government to increase that.The
0:48:56 > 0:49:02price of renewable energy is coming down dramatically. Apparently the
0:49:02 > 0:49:08last ten days were much cheaper than nuclear, where it had been more
0:49:08 > 0:49:13expensive. The Government should not need to do anything. Under the new
0:49:13 > 0:49:16contracts, offshore renewable in Scotland as well as other parts of
0:49:16 > 0:49:21the UK should be viable.That is a more recent development, and some
0:49:21 > 0:49:26industry insiders will say though be further volatility. That is recent,
0:49:26 > 0:49:29we took the hard decisions because of the last ten years to lead that
0:49:29 > 0:49:33investment when that wasn't the case. We want to try and continue to
0:49:33 > 0:49:38give that support to the industry, and see it joined up another part of
0:49:38 > 0:49:46the
0:49:46 > 0:49:49the supply chain. We should not rush past the fact that this week we had
0:49:49 > 0:49:51potentially 1400 people looking at having Christmas without a wage and
0:49:51 > 0:49:54are never have that. I would like to come wind all those, including the
0:49:54 > 0:49:55First Minister and individual partners who closed
0:50:01 > 0:50:06Will we ever be the Saudi Arabia of wind power?We have to have these
0:50:06 > 0:50:12kind of games.A couple of other matters. Alex Almond, Russian
0:50:12 > 0:50:17television. What did you make of his decision to do that?That is a
0:50:17 > 0:50:22decision for him. He is a private citizen, one with a well-known past,
0:50:22 > 0:50:30it is decision to make things up. What is your advice? I have never
0:50:30 > 0:50:35been on Russia to and I do not expect to be yet -- on it any time
0:50:35 > 0:50:44soon. You do not approve? I know the background to Russia today. I would
0:50:44 > 0:50:48predict regardless of that he will get strong viewing figures.You do
0:50:48 > 0:50:54not think it is damaging for his party?Here's an individual citizen.
0:50:54 > 0:50:59My party is not getting involved with Russia today, we are not part
0:50:59 > 0:51:04of this programme. His link to the party is obvious but it is decision
0:51:04 > 0:51:09to make.But people will say, this was the chap if things had gone
0:51:09 > 0:51:13according to plan, he would be the First Minister of an independent
0:51:13 > 0:51:18Scotland. Here he is working for a channel which many people see
0:51:18 > 0:51:22perceived as being linked to Vladimir Putin.If he was First
0:51:22 > 0:51:26Minister of an independent Scotland, he would not be making this
0:51:26 > 0:51:32programme.What a wonderful and is. Kezia Dugdale, she is off to "I'm a
0:51:32 > 0:51:38Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here". This is not just a matter for Labour, it
0:51:38 > 0:51:42is a matter of what parliamentarians should be doing.The fundamental
0:51:42 > 0:51:50point is this, the scene was -- the same was for Nadine Doris, which is
0:51:50 > 0:51:57the primarily job which is to represent people. What strikes me as
0:51:57 > 0:52:02in this we have Kezia Dugdale flowing off to Australia, we have
0:52:02 > 0:52:10Ruth Davidson going to the great British
0:52:10 > 0:52:15British bake off,.There has been talk of suspension. Is that in your
0:52:15 > 0:52:20view a matter for the Scottish Labour Party or of the Scottish
0:52:20 > 0:52:24parliament?It is a matter for the Scottish Labour Party. It is a
0:52:24 > 0:52:31matter of how her party views her absence from her primary job, as an
0:52:31 > 0:52:33MSP.Thank you for joining us this morning.
0:52:33 > 0:52:35The Scottish Labour Party has elected a new leader.
0:52:35 > 0:52:37Richard Leonard, a Corbyn loyalist, comfortably defeated
0:52:37 > 0:52:38his rival, Anas Sarwar.
0:52:38 > 0:52:41Mr Leonard has promised to follow a more 'radical policy agenda',
0:52:41 > 0:52:44but when we invited him to our programme to tell us
0:52:44 > 0:52:46more about his plans for the party, he declined.
0:52:46 > 0:52:49However, we spoke to one of his main supporters, Neil Findlay,
0:52:49 > 0:52:53about Labour's future, and former leader Kezia Dugdale's decision
0:52:53 > 0:53:01to appear in the TV show "I'm a Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here".
0:53:01 > 0:53:07Your man won. You must be delighted? Absolutely delighted. Delighted for
0:53:07 > 0:53:13Richard on a personal level but politically I think this is the way
0:53:13 > 0:53:20that Scottish Labour Party wants to go forward. And we are completely
0:53:20 > 0:53:23holding a different agenda.I am delighted. Where are you worried
0:53:23 > 0:53:30about how big the margin was?From the beginning I thought it would be
0:53:30 > 0:53:35very close. But I was pleased with the margin of victory. And I think
0:53:35 > 0:53:42it gives them a strong mandate. Where is he? We asked on the
0:53:42 > 0:53:47programme today. It is his first day as leader of Scottish Labour, why
0:53:47 > 0:53:51isn't he here to explain what he wants to do?I would expect after
0:53:51 > 0:53:56nine weeks of a very intense campaign, I hope he is having a rest
0:53:56 > 0:54:00and time with his family. I certainly would be after such an
0:54:00 > 0:54:05intense period of campaigning.No you would not be. You would be
0:54:05 > 0:54:09saying, here I am. I will tell you why this is so exciting.There is
0:54:09 > 0:54:15plenty of time for that, Gordon. People underestimate the intensity
0:54:15 > 0:54:19of being involved in a campaign like that. It is right that people spent
0:54:19 > 0:54:25time with their family.I think that is right. He is not here and in the
0:54:25 > 0:54:29news. Another person who is in the news are not here, is Kezia Dugdale
0:54:29 > 0:54:35because she is flying off to Australia. What do you make of her
0:54:35 > 0:54:39decision to appear on "I'm a Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here"?
0:54:39 > 0:54:44Utterly ludicrous. We have a situation in the run-up to the
0:54:44 > 0:54:49budget in Scotland where local government is on its knees, where
0:54:49 > 0:54:55the NHS has shown pressures like never before, when people's living
0:54:55 > 0:55:02standards of living and the expect their MPs, MSPs and elective
0:55:02 > 0:55:06representatives to be fighting on their behalf. I do not think people
0:55:06 > 0:55:11would expect them to jet off around the world and sit around a campfire,
0:55:11 > 0:55:18eating kangaroo's appendage.What would you say to people in the
0:55:18 > 0:55:23Labour Party. There are some supportive of Kezia Dugdale who say,
0:55:23 > 0:55:30come on, we are being po-faced year, it is a bit of fun.Well, I think it
0:55:30 > 0:55:35demeans politics when people get involved in that. We have a very
0:55:35 > 0:55:39serious job to do. People out there are struggling and there's huge
0:55:39 > 0:55:43pressures on public services. That is the job we should be doing. I
0:55:43 > 0:55:48take my job very seriously, so do my colleagues, and I think they would
0:55:48 > 0:55:54expect better.The other person from Labour who has been in the news this
0:55:54 > 0:55:59week is Alec Crowley, in a much more serious sense. He has been suspended
0:55:59 > 0:56:03from the Labour Party pending investigation of the case. Do you
0:56:03 > 0:56:12think that was the correct decision, to suspend?
0:56:12 > 0:56:15to suspend?-- Alex Rowley. I think this whole thing has developed
0:56:15 > 0:56:21around harassment is a very worrying one. We have to be very supportive
0:56:21 > 0:56:26of particularly the women who are making complaints and who are
0:56:26 > 0:56:31alleging wrong behaviour. We have to be supporting them. But we also have
0:56:31 > 0:56:35to be very careful about those who are accused of misbehaviour and
0:56:35 > 0:56:40there has to be due process going through. Any workplace where I have
0:56:40 > 0:56:44been in where someone has been involved in misconduct, there is a
0:56:44 > 0:56:48due process that takes place and then a decision is made on whether
0:56:48 > 0:56:54they are guilty or innocent. I think we have to be very careful in this.
0:56:54 > 0:56:57I am taking... Can I take from what you have said that you think you may
0:56:57 > 0:57:03be should not have been suspended? The Labour Party has a process. That
0:57:03 > 0:57:08process will be gone through. The outcome of that will be there for
0:57:08 > 0:57:15everyone to see.We know that. But should he have been suspended or
0:57:15 > 0:57:19left in place pending that?I do not know all the details of the case. I
0:57:19 > 0:57:27have only read one side, only what has been in the media and that is a
0:57:27 > 0:57:31one-sided view of events. I stress for the woman who made those
0:57:31 > 0:57:36complaints, this is a very serious issue and I hope that she is being
0:57:36 > 0:57:39supported. Just as I hope there are systems in place to support anyone
0:57:39 > 0:57:45who is accused of this.The challenges facing Scottish Labour. I
0:57:45 > 0:57:48think it was Richard Lehnert who kept pointing out that although you
0:57:48 > 0:57:53did well relatively in the recent general election in Scotland,
0:57:53 > 0:57:59perhaps better than you expected to do yourself, that actually there was
0:57:59 > 0:58:03an optical illusion going on because Labour only gain 10,000 votes. What
0:58:03 > 0:58:09do you do to try and get their carbon phenomenon that is sweeping
0:58:09 > 0:58:19up here.
0:58:20 > 0:58:24-- Corbyn.We have someone who has the same views as Jeremy Corbyn and
0:58:24 > 0:58:29fitting that forward in the manifesto.We have a credible
0:58:29 > 0:58:34leader. Even at the level of membership, there has been a bit of
0:58:34 > 0:58:37an increase in membership in Scotland, but nothing like the
0:58:37 > 0:58:43Labour in England. They see the Labour Party is the biggest Labour
0:58:43 > 0:58:48Party in Europe. How do you get that momentum?What we found on the
0:58:48 > 0:58:53doorstep in the election going, we like what the manifesto is saying,
0:58:53 > 0:59:00we really like Corbyn, but we do not know about Scottish Labour. The
0:59:00 > 0:59:03thought that Scottish Labour was out of kilter of what was being said in
0:59:03 > 0:59:08the manifesto. Now I think they will be much more aligned. Richard will
0:59:08 > 0:59:14be his own man. You must be sure about that. But I think it will be
0:59:14 > 0:59:18more in line and I think it is much more credible that someone like
0:59:18 > 0:59:25Richard carries that message for the many not the few.So you would like
0:59:25 > 0:59:31to see an uptake in membership?Of course. I think people who have been
0:59:31 > 0:59:34questioning whether Scottish Labour is reflective of the mood across...
0:59:34 > 0:59:41Just a moment. You have asked me a question, I need to answer it. I
0:59:41 > 0:59:47think people can come and join as supporters.What I wanted to do was
0:59:47 > 0:59:51pick up on something you said. During people -- the election people
0:59:51 > 0:59:55thought Scottish Labour was not a line. Where the telling you that
0:59:55 > 1:00:01Scottish Labour was not left wing enough, well they tell you and it is
1:00:01 > 1:00:06something that both Anas Sarwar and Richard Lehnert said during the
1:00:06 > 1:00:12election, Scottish Labour were wobbly regarding independence.--
1:00:12 > 1:00:17Richard Lehnert. In the last week of that election campaign, we heard
1:00:17 > 1:00:23Nicola Sturgeon saying that if you want Corbyn's politics you have two
1:00:23 > 1:00:29vote SNP. Why did they put that out? The new that Labour voters, who were
1:00:29 > 1:00:34previously voters who had voted SNP, were no going back to Labour. If we
1:00:34 > 1:00:39had focused on the manifesto about public services instead of banging
1:00:39 > 1:00:43on about the referendum again, then I think we would have had more than
1:00:43 > 1:00:52seven seats.This has to be sourced a yes or no answers, do you want a
1:00:52 > 1:00:57job in Richard's team?I have never asked the Labour leader for a job
1:00:57 > 1:01:02now and I will not ask now.If he asked you for help will you help? I
1:01:02 > 1:01:10will help if he asks. Should Anas Sarwar have our role in the team?It
1:01:10 > 1:01:18is up to him. I would have the conversation with Anas Sarwar and
1:01:18 > 1:01:21appoint him.Thank you.
1:01:21 > 1:01:23Now, this week universities revealed how they hoped to meet
1:01:23 > 1:01:25Scottish Government targets to raise the number of students
1:01:25 > 1:01:26from disadvantaged areas.
1:01:26 > 1:01:29By 2030, the Government wants at least a fifth of the students
1:01:29 > 1:01:32at every single university to come from a disadvantaged background.
1:01:32 > 1:01:34Just now, only two universities meet that target.
1:01:34 > 1:01:43Our education correspondent Jamie McIvor reports.
1:01:43 > 1:01:47Decades ago, University was for the privileged few. Today's student
1:01:47 > 1:01:52numbers hover around historic high. What was your favourite thing?
1:01:52 > 1:01:56Kelsey is the first from her family to secure her place and realise she
1:01:56 > 1:02:01can be a role model.It does set an example for my little sister and
1:02:01 > 1:02:05cousin 's as well if they see someone they know who has been to
1:02:05 > 1:02:09university, it might inspire them to go.Kelsey helps with the University
1:02:09 > 1:02:15out reach scheme, helping children in primary schools in disadvantaged
1:02:15 > 1:02:20areas. This is for primary five students. Part of a wide-ranging
1:02:20 > 1:02:26strategy.We believe in early intervention. We will work in
1:02:26 > 1:02:29primary schools, early years, secondary schools and colleges. It
1:02:29 > 1:02:36is to allow families and children to grasp the key to further education,
1:02:36 > 1:02:40especially when barriers come into place.Glasgow Caledonian University
1:02:40 > 1:02:47already meets these targets. The older ones have fewer students from
1:02:47 > 1:02:53disadvantaged areas and require better exam results to get in.
1:02:53 > 1:02:57Mischa is studying medicine in Glasgow University.I think Glasgow
1:02:57 > 1:03:04is diverse and I feel in alternative ways diverse. No one would be
1:03:04 > 1:03:08disadvantaged coming to Glasgow, as long as they have the requirements
1:03:08 > 1:03:14they need further course, I do not think they would be disadvantaged.
1:03:14 > 1:03:19It is a good environment. Any suggestion older universities are
1:03:19 > 1:03:22only from youngsters from back -- better off backgrounds are nonsense.
1:03:22 > 1:03:30They are the ones facing wider challenges facing axis. Key to this
1:03:30 > 1:03:37is going to a system that faces -- places more emphasis on exam
1:03:37 > 1:03:44results. Just as long as the exam results they got were over a certain
1:03:44 > 1:03:52level.The average level at the moment of numbers coming in from
1:03:52 > 1:03:57disadvantaged areas, we recognise the scale of the challenge going
1:03:57 > 1:04:02forward. 12 years is the target. We feel everyone can improve at the
1:04:02 > 1:04:08pace we have over the past ten, 12 years, we should manage to reach
1:04:08 > 1:04:13that target.The Scottish Government feared their plans will not go far
1:04:13 > 1:04:17enough. The policy is to increase the number of new students from
1:04:17 > 1:04:21disadvantaged areas but universities want to be sure the people they give
1:04:21 > 1:04:25places too will not drop out after a few months because they find a
1:04:25 > 1:04:32course too hard. And it begs another question. Are universities being
1:04:32 > 1:04:36expected to carry too much of the burden to create up equal playing
1:04:36 > 1:04:43field. And should there be more on tackling poverty and disadvantage
1:04:43 > 1:04:47itself. To make sure those from disadvantaged areas can get the same
1:04:47 > 1:04:53grades as others. It is not an easy circle to Square, especially for a
1:04:53 > 1:04:56government who has told voters to judge them on squaring it.
1:04:59 > 1:05:01Its time now to take a look back over events,
1:05:01 > 1:05:04and to the week ahead.
1:05:04 > 1:05:07Joining me today is Margaret Smith, former Liberal Democrat MSP,
1:05:07 > 1:05:09and political commentator and former Chief of Staff
1:05:09 > 1:05:17to Alex Salmond, Geoff Aberdein.
1:05:17 > 1:05:20Kezia Dugdale, it was interesting that what the band had to say was
1:05:20 > 1:05:23positively moderate compared to what Neil Findlay had to say.
1:05:23 > 1:05:29Extraordinary decision. An incredible platform for her, what we
1:05:29 > 1:05:33know that in the past this has really backfired against people who
1:05:33 > 1:05:39do this, George Galloway, Tommy Sheridan. But I will be kind to her.
1:05:39 > 1:05:47I think it is only 2-macro weeks, and it is an opportunity for her, as
1:05:47 > 1:05:52she is looking to go beyond Holyrood. -- only two weeks. This is
1:05:52 > 1:05:56a signal from her that she will not finish her days after working as an
1:05:56 > 1:06:01MSP she has got her sights set somewhere else.It is clearly a
1:06:01 > 1:06:06risk, and are legitimate criticisms of the decision. But how often does
1:06:06 > 1:06:10a politician get an opportunity to comedic take their message to 10
1:06:10 > 1:06:13million people a night? We are always discussing how engage the
1:06:13 > 1:06:19younger voters are, maybe this is the way. We should public have my
1:06:19 > 1:06:23jumpers after she has been on and analyse better then.Richard
1:06:23 > 1:06:29Leonard? He has won the election. I am not just making a point about our
1:06:29 > 1:06:34programme that he has not here, but he is going out this afternoon to do
1:06:34 > 1:06:38campaigning in a council by-election in Rutherglen. He is going to do a
1:06:38 > 1:06:42photo opportunity, but refused to any questions from the media. Seems
1:06:42 > 1:06:48bizarre given he has just been elected.It is a little bit strange.
1:06:48 > 1:06:51The problem facing the Labour Party is they have had seven leaders in
1:06:51 > 1:06:56ten years. They need a credible message and a credible messenger.
1:06:56 > 1:07:00How can you gain that credible message if you keep turning over
1:07:00 > 1:07:05leaders? What other the differences in opinion, I think the Labour Party
1:07:05 > 1:07:10need to get behind their leader and get some longevity and continuity to
1:07:10 > 1:07:15make a sustained challenge.Did it stop the backbiting. Can they do
1:07:15 > 1:07:18that?They have do. It is not a question whether we think they can,
1:07:18 > 1:07:25they have two. They had to make an imprint. One thing most people
1:07:25 > 1:07:33except if that Scotland needs a strong Labour Party, to take...
1:07:33 > 1:07:38Slightly surprisingly is not here, and you know all about running small
1:07:38 > 1:07:43parties, Labour is not the second-biggest in the country. It is
1:07:43 > 1:07:46the third party in Scotland. This is the candidate who does not have a
1:07:46 > 1:07:52public profile compared to the others.Easily a year in there, most
1:07:52 > 1:07:56people don't know who hears. This is a great opportunity for him to top
1:07:56 > 1:08:00to the nation and say, this is what I come about. The positives of what
1:08:00 > 1:08:04you said so far is that he is focused on policy rather than
1:08:04 > 1:08:08because that you should. The positives for the result for him is
1:08:08 > 1:08:11that yes, he got the trade union backing that we expected, but he
1:08:11 > 1:08:24also got the backing of the membership, that is imported.
1:08:24 > 1:08:26membership, that is imported.There are are huge challenges for him, but
1:08:26 > 1:08:28huge opportunities. There are a lot of seats in the general election
1:08:28 > 1:08:31granny did not do better than they thought, but they are running the
1:08:31 > 1:08:33SNP quite close. There is a lot of potential.Scotland will become more
1:08:33 > 1:08:36important with him as the leader, because Jeremy Corbyn is coming up
1:08:36 > 1:08:41next week, looking at 18 seats out of the sick before he has to win to
1:08:41 > 1:08:45form a Government, the allies himself to Jeremy Corbyn, and I
1:08:45 > 1:08:50think he has got a good opportunity, the first thing he has to do is
1:08:50 > 1:08:54bring in all the people including Anas Sarwar who are not seen as his
1:08:54 > 1:08:57supporters, he has only had a handful of people in the
1:08:57 > 1:09:01parliamentary group who have supported him, he has to get a big
1:09:01 > 1:09:05approach.That is a question for him. Whether he can put a team
1:09:05 > 1:09:09together. It is going to rely on people who did not support him,
1:09:09 > 1:09:12because parliamentarians do not support him. They will have to be
1:09:12 > 1:09:17willing to say, despite the fact that we supported Anas Sarwar, we
1:09:17 > 1:09:22will serve all your team. Anas Sarwar to take a lead on that.I
1:09:22 > 1:09:28would like to see him do that. You need compromise. If you did not like
1:09:28 > 1:09:32the winner, respect the boat went the way it did. The Labour Party in
1:09:32 > 1:09:36Scotland make a sustained challenge in Scottish politics again, the need
1:09:36 > 1:09:40to be united. That is something they haven't been any number of years.
1:09:40 > 1:09:46Alex Salmond on Russian television. Let's let's have a look.Hello. And
1:09:46 > 1:09:50welcome to the very first episode of the Alex Salmond Show. I am looking
1:09:50 > 1:09:57forward to you joining me every week as we host politicians, stars of
1:09:57 > 1:10:00stage and screen, business personalities, influenza leaders and
1:10:00 > 1:10:05those who want to be any of the above. As Robert Burns said, how
1:10:05 > 1:10:10poor the gift they give us to see ourselves as others see us.Nicola
1:10:10 > 1:10:14Sturgeon said that she had been asked for her advice she would have
1:10:14 > 1:10:21said, maybe not. You used to be his adviser.Abbott public had been a
1:10:21 > 1:10:30Nicola's camp, and I have told Alex that. I spoke to him afterwards. He
1:10:30 > 1:10:33knows my views. I also respect the fact that he is a private citizen
1:10:33 > 1:10:37and he has an opportunity to broadcast his views, he said he will
1:10:37 > 1:10:41do it without fear or favour, I think this show this week showed it
1:10:41 > 1:10:46was a good effort in that direction. The political probably SNP is that
1:10:46 > 1:10:49the opposition parties will drag this art at every opportunity as
1:10:49 > 1:10:57long as that show goes on, and even if it stops.Absolutely. Alex has
1:10:57 > 1:11:01taken this decision, he knew there would be negative reaction, he is
1:11:01 > 1:11:05not silly, heat it is his job to present a show that deals with that
1:11:05 > 1:11:08criticism. It will be a difficult sell, but if any one can do it, he
1:11:08 > 1:11:16can.Your job is secure, Gordon. He is not going to come here and
1:11:16 > 1:11:22challenge you on the basis of what we have seen. I don't think so. It
1:11:22 > 1:11:26is a credibility issue. It gives credible to two Russia Today, and to
1:11:26 > 1:11:32a state funded TV company when basically the Russians have an
1:11:32 > 1:11:38approach to journalism and LGBT rights and human rights which is not
1:11:38 > 1:11:43something that the SNP wants to be associated with. It gives a
1:11:43 > 1:11:46credibility to Alex. I cannot help but think there is a lot of other
1:11:46 > 1:11:50people who would have given Alex Salmond, given his little
1:11:50 > 1:11:55background, a job before he had to go and take the money from them.He
1:11:55 > 1:12:03is prominent enough that a lot of politicians go on this circuit, big
1:12:03 > 1:12:09speeches, company boards, becoming involved in think tanks, Alex
1:12:09 > 1:12:13Salmond is at least of a status to do that.Yes, when we take each
1:12:13 > 1:12:19other he said that, as the often said in Scottish politics, the more
1:12:19 > 1:12:23I talk about I am known, but I said, that everyone knows you already. He
1:12:23 > 1:12:29did not need the extra status. Let see if you can create a show without
1:12:29 > 1:12:33fear, without intervention, and the same of Kezia Dugdale, we will judge
1:12:33 > 1:12:41it on its merits. But it is not a... It is a difficult sell.BiFab, great
1:12:41 > 1:12:51news. There is this issue of whether Scotland... That company can get
1:12:51 > 1:12:56some deal in the longer term. And also whether renewables is really
1:12:56 > 1:13:00going to be in Scotland, what we thought it was going to be.The
1:13:00 > 1:13:04first thing is to say it is fantastic news, and there are
1:13:04 > 1:13:08hundreds of families in the run-up to Christmas now know they have
1:13:08 > 1:13:13their jobs secure. It is this big question going forward, not only the
1:13:13 > 1:13:16Scottish Government but all the opposition parties are wedded to the
1:13:16 > 1:13:21fact that renewables was the future, and Scotland's infrastructure and
1:13:21 > 1:13:27industry. This shows us how precarious that is. Nicola was often
1:13:27 > 1:13:31on this week at the UN climate conference, this is something which
1:13:31 > 1:13:34has got fundamental backing and the Scottish Government did a good job
1:13:34 > 1:13:38in the last few days in terms of turning this around, but it does
1:13:38 > 1:13:41show how precarious it is and I think that is something of a have to
1:13:41 > 1:13:45work on.Your analysis of the future of the Goebbels, but we are
1:13:45 > 1:13:47completely out of time.
1:13:47 > 1:13:48That's all from the us this week.
1:13:48 > 1:13:50I'll be back at the same time next week.
1:13:50 > 1:13:56Until then, goodbye.