0:00:36 > 0:00:38Morning, everyone, and welcome to the Sunday Politics.
0:00:38 > 0:00:40I'm Sarah Smith.
0:00:40 > 0:00:43And this is the programme that will provide your essential briefing
0:00:43 > 0:00:45on everything that's moving and shaking in the
0:00:45 > 0:00:47world of politics.
0:00:47 > 0:00:49Theresa May is back after her trip to China.
0:00:49 > 0:00:52But there's plenty of fire and fury from within her own party over
0:00:52 > 0:00:53Brexit and her ability to lead.
0:00:53 > 0:00:58The Conservative chairman joins me live.
0:00:58 > 0:01:00Labour tells demonstrators only it can save the NHS.
0:01:00 > 0:01:03So, do the party's health spending plans add up?
0:01:03 > 0:01:07We'll talk to the Shadow Health Secretary.
0:01:07 > 0:01:09Months on from the sexual harassment and bullying scandal that
0:01:09 > 0:01:11engulfed Westminster, we'll be asking what's happened
0:01:11 > 0:01:19to plans for Parliament to clean up its act.
0:01:19 > 0:01:22And a violent scuffle at a speech by one Tory MP has been widely
0:01:22 > 0:01:23condemned.
0:01:23 > 0:01:28But is it symptomatic of a wider problem in politics?
0:01:28 > 0:01:30Coming up on Sunday Politics Scotland:
0:01:30 > 0:01:32Brexit, bank closures and the SNP's deputy leadership -
0:01:32 > 0:01:34we'll be talking to the party's leader at Westminster,
0:01:34 > 0:01:42Ian Blackford.
0:01:51 > 0:01:53All that coming up in the programme.
0:01:53 > 0:01:56And, as one newspaper speculates about a 'dream team' being urged
0:01:56 > 0:01:59to take over at Number 10, we've got our own dream team
0:01:59 > 0:02:01of journalists - Tom Newton Dunn, Julia Hartley-Brewer,
0:02:01 > 0:02:02and Steve Richards.
0:02:02 > 0:02:04And they've promised not to plot against me...
0:02:04 > 0:02:06At least until the end of the show.
0:02:06 > 0:02:08So, the Prime Minister may have been out
0:02:08 > 0:02:11of the country to drum up trade but, even from 5,000 miles away, it
0:02:11 > 0:02:13must have been hard to ignore the continuing unrest
0:02:13 > 0:02:14from some in her party,
0:02:14 > 0:02:18and repeated calls to be clearer about Brexit.
0:02:18 > 0:02:22Theresa May was in China this week, where she gave President Xi Jinping
0:02:22 > 0:02:26DVDs of Blue Planet as a reminder of the dangers of plastic pollution.
0:02:26 > 0:02:29Back home, Conservative MPs gave her some advice on how to lead
0:02:29 > 0:02:32the party and the Government.
0:02:32 > 0:02:34Some advice was offered to Cabinet ministers
0:02:34 > 0:02:36getting restless on Brexit.
0:02:36 > 0:02:39The best way they can support her is to take a vow
0:02:39 > 0:02:41of silence on the subject.
0:02:41 > 0:02:43But most was for the Prime Minister herself.
0:02:43 > 0:02:45Some even aired their thoughts in public.
0:02:45 > 0:02:48I do think the window is closed because politics can be
0:02:48 > 0:02:51quite a brutal game.
0:02:51 > 0:02:54When is the Government going to stand up against the hard
0:02:54 > 0:02:57Brexiteers who mainly inhabit these benches?
0:02:57 > 0:03:00She does not actually have a majority for her
0:03:00 > 0:03:01policy in her Cabinet.
0:03:01 > 0:03:05It was advice of a different kind that hit the Government
0:03:05 > 0:03:07when BuzzFeed published leaked civil service analysis suggesting that,
0:03:07 > 0:03:10under various off-the-shelf trading models, the UK would be less well
0:03:10 > 0:03:14off in 15 years than if we'd stayed in the EU.
0:03:14 > 0:03:19But Brexit Minister Steve Baker wasn't worried about the forecasts.
0:03:19 > 0:03:23I think that they are always wrong, and wrong for good reasons.
0:03:23 > 0:03:25The analysis was grist to the mill for Brexit critics,
0:03:25 > 0:03:31but Theresa May probably didn't expect one minister to pile in.
0:03:32 > 0:03:34Justice Department's Phillip Lee said the leaked report couldn't just
0:03:34 > 0:03:37be dismissed and that, if anywhere near correct,
0:03:37 > 0:03:40it raised a serious question about current Brexit policy.
0:03:40 > 0:03:43But that's thinking 15 years ahead.
0:03:43 > 0:03:46One former Brexit Minister George Bridges took aim at the Government
0:03:46 > 0:03:51and the House of Lords for still not knowing what it wanted.
0:03:52 > 0:03:56All we hear day after day are conflicting, confusing voices.
0:03:56 > 0:03:58Theresa May returned from China saying she had secured £9 billion
0:03:58 > 0:04:02of business deals during the trip.
0:04:02 > 0:04:05Local media dubbed her Auntie May, while International Trade Secretary
0:04:05 > 0:04:08Liam Fox said her middle name is 'resilience', claiming foreign
0:04:08 > 0:04:13leaders were well aware of Theresa May's strength.
0:04:14 > 0:04:17You look at the Prime Minister in a different way than some of,
0:04:17 > 0:04:22let's say, the internal tea room discussions in the UK do.
0:04:22 > 0:04:25While at home there was speculation about her ability to lead,
0:04:25 > 0:04:26Auntie May herself was clear.
0:04:26 > 0:04:28I am not a quitter.
0:04:28 > 0:04:31She will be relieved the only resignation she was offered this
0:04:31 > 0:04:36week was from a minister who'd shown up late to Parliament.
0:04:37 > 0:04:39I'm thoroughly ashamed at not being in my place,
0:04:39 > 0:04:41and therefore I shall be offering my resignation
0:04:41 > 0:04:42to the Prime Minister.
0:04:42 > 0:04:45But with open warfare in her party, calls to step up her game,
0:04:45 > 0:04:48and a crucial Cabinet meeting on Brexit within days,
0:04:48 > 0:04:51Theresa May knows she needs to do something special to ensure the next
0:04:51 > 0:04:56departure isn't hers.
0:05:01 > 0:05:06There is plenty to talk about with my panel of political insiders. It
0:05:06 > 0:05:11feels like Theresa May's worst week since last week that she began the
0:05:11 > 0:05:16show but talking about how difficult it was with fights within the party.
0:05:16 > 0:05:23Is it even worse? It is about the same. What is interesting, if I can
0:05:23 > 0:05:30put this in some context, I am working in a project with the Prime
0:05:30 > 0:05:35Minister at the moment. Many Prime Minister 's worry about being
0:05:35 > 0:05:40deposed but it is rare to happen. From 1968 Harold Wilson was in
0:05:40 > 0:05:49trouble and he survived another eight years. I'm not predicting...
0:05:49 > 0:05:52John Major survived until the general election. This is a constant
0:05:52 > 0:05:58theme in British politics that Prime Minister 's are rarely deposed at
0:05:58 > 0:06:02the moment I work on the assumption she will be around for some time to
0:06:02 > 0:06:08come.It is highly distracting though. It cannot help with the
0:06:08 > 0:06:15issue of the Government or wrecks it for that matter.All of Theresa
0:06:15 > 0:06:20May's woes art of her own making. It is about showing backbone and spine
0:06:20 > 0:06:24and having a Brexit policy and sticking with it. I find it
0:06:24 > 0:06:29extraordinary we will have two meetings with the Brexit War Cabinet
0:06:29 > 0:06:33on Wednesday and Thursday of this week to decide the Brexit policy.
0:06:33 > 0:06:38She has been in office for a long time it is a long time since the
0:06:38 > 0:06:42last election. It is a total travesty of leadership that is going
0:06:42 > 0:06:48on. All of her problems are of her own making. She could be doing with
0:06:48 > 0:06:51warring factions in her party, the opposition and all the other
0:06:51 > 0:06:54threats, just to be a strong Prime Minister. Making it clear to the
0:06:54 > 0:07:00likes of Philip Hammond, you are doubtful that he should have been
0:07:00 > 0:07:07out a long time ago if she had the will and strength to do so.Is it
0:07:07 > 0:07:10not by being ambiguous about her position on terror, and she has been
0:07:10 > 0:07:17able to remain as leader of the Conservative Party?Completely. I
0:07:17 > 0:07:20disagree with Julia and Steve that there is a third way in all of this.
0:07:20 > 0:07:27I believe all her problems are not of her own making. Brexit was not of
0:07:27 > 0:07:31her own making. She somehow had to try to get this through parliament
0:07:31 > 0:07:40where she has no majority, where she has eight Cabinet split and it is a
0:07:40 > 0:07:43huge problem. The only reason she is there is because she has not made a
0:07:43 > 0:07:48big decision, she has not got off the fence she is trying to keep the
0:07:48 > 0:07:53ship together and compromise. As was said in the brilliant speech in the
0:07:53 > 0:07:58House of Lords, to govern is to choose. Tony Blair said that this is
0:07:58 > 0:08:02the year of choice. The next six months will be the six months of
0:08:02 > 0:08:07choices for Theresa May. User needs to get the choices on Brexit, market
0:08:07 > 0:08:12control, sovereignty, access to huge, great big decisions. She needs
0:08:12 > 0:08:21to get that past four different hurdles was achieved to get the
0:08:21 > 0:08:24Cabinet on board among her own MPs to stay alive and stay in charge
0:08:24 > 0:08:27having made those decisions. Then she has too persuade the EU to buy
0:08:27 > 0:08:32whatever it is she will sell. I find it very, very hard indeed to think
0:08:32 > 0:08:36she will get over all four hurdles by the end of the year. Therefore I
0:08:36 > 0:08:40am afraid I cannot see her as leading the Tory Party by the end of
0:08:40 > 0:08:46it.I think it would be risky for anyone to make any predictions. Can
0:08:46 > 0:08:54I point out that 2018 was not the year of choice?2016 was the year of
0:08:54 > 0:08:59choice. I care about what the British electorate wants. The
0:08:59 > 0:09:04British electorate made their choice in 2016. Theresa May did not
0:09:04 > 0:09:10increase her majority of the 85% of people voted for two major parties
0:09:10 > 0:09:14in the Ukip and the other parties supported Brexit. There is a mandate
0:09:14 > 0:09:18we need to get on and do the will of the British people.I completely
0:09:18 > 0:09:22agree with Tom about these hurdles. They are almost impossible to get
0:09:22 > 0:09:28over. But that would apply to any Prime Minister. So, you have to ask
0:09:28 > 0:09:32the question, what does it solve? In the longer term, changing leader
0:09:32 > 0:09:37might give the more electoral success, who knows? But it does not
0:09:37 > 0:09:41solve getting over those hurdles you could have Boris Johnson saying,
0:09:41 > 0:09:48Britain can rule the waves. Those hurdles will still be there.But a
0:09:48 > 0:09:51Prime Minister who knew more about... .Mac will come back to this
0:09:51 > 0:09:54later in the programme. In the meantime we will move on.
0:09:54 > 0:09:57The Home Secretary, Amber Rudd, has been speaking this morning
0:09:57 > 0:09:59to the Andrew Marr Show, and she claimed the Cabinet
0:09:59 > 0:10:01isn't as divided over Brexit as some claim.
0:10:01 > 0:10:04I have a surprise for the Brexiteers, which is the committee
0:10:04 > 0:10:07that meets in order to help make these decisions, is meeting, as you
0:10:07 > 0:10:10rightly say, twice this week, is more united than they think.
0:10:10 > 0:10:12We meet in the committee, we meet privately for discussions.
0:10:12 > 0:10:15I think we will arrive at something which suits us all.
0:10:15 > 0:10:18There will be choices to be made within them but we all want the same
0:10:18 > 0:10:22thing, which is to arrive at a deal that works for the UK, that
0:10:22 > 0:10:23looks ahead.
0:10:23 > 0:10:26It's not just about protecting trade behind us, it's about looking ahead
0:10:26 > 0:10:28to what kind of country we want to be afterwards.
0:10:28 > 0:10:30We all have those interests at heart.
0:10:30 > 0:10:32And I'm joined now by the chairman of the Conservative Party,
0:10:32 > 0:10:37Brandon Lewis.
0:10:37 > 0:10:41Thank you for coming in. Amber Rudd is saying the Cabinet is more united
0:10:41 > 0:10:44than people think. The parties that he doesn't look that way from some
0:10:44 > 0:10:48of the things they have heard this week. It is your job to get them on
0:10:48 > 0:10:52the same page in order to make that happen, do you need to spell out a
0:10:52 > 0:11:00vision of what Brexit will look like so they can get behind it?It is
0:11:00 > 0:11:05like what Amber said. The Cabinet is united behind the Prime Minister to
0:11:05 > 0:11:11make sure we get a good deal for the European Union.We are hearing lots
0:11:11 > 0:11:18of noises, complaining. They want to know more about what the end state
0:11:18 > 0:11:25will be otherwise they will row more.Where I disagree is all MPs,
0:11:25 > 0:11:30certainly in the Conservative Party, are united in seeing we get a good
0:11:30 > 0:11:34deal on leaving the EU for the United Kingdom.Bernard Jenkin
0:11:34 > 0:11:39saying we need to end confusion in government. They are complaining
0:11:39 > 0:11:43about the present uncertainty. Working out what is the right deal
0:11:43 > 0:11:46for the United Kingdom. In negotiations we are having with a 27
0:11:46 > 0:11:50partners who want to continue to trade with in the European Union is
0:11:50 > 0:11:55a very serious and, located piece of work. We never said this was an easy
0:11:55 > 0:12:00piece of work and it is why there are meetings of the subcommittee in
0:12:00 > 0:12:05the Cabinet going through the details. We have the deal, the first
0:12:05 > 0:12:11stage of the deal, before Christmas. We must look to the next stage which
0:12:11 > 0:12:15is agreeing the situation in the period of translation after March
0:12:15 > 0:12:202000 and 19. The ultimate deal that we want, for people in the United
0:12:20 > 0:12:24Kingdom, after the transition period as well.We're all waiting with
0:12:24 > 0:12:30breath. Your backbenchers, whatever side of the other in they are on the
0:12:30 > 0:12:35desperately want to know what the end state will look like. After the
0:12:35 > 0:12:39Cabinet subcommittees meet later in the week, we get more detail?There
0:12:39 > 0:12:44are a couple of key issues. Within Brexit we have been very clear.
0:12:44 > 0:12:48We're going to leave the European Union, and the customs union. We
0:12:48 > 0:12:53want to make sure we can leave the control of the Borders to the United
0:12:53 > 0:12:57Kingdom, the Government of the United Kingdom. When I am talking to
0:12:57 > 0:13:02residents, across the country, they also want to know that the Prime
0:13:02 > 0:13:06Minister is focused on issues that matter to people every day. They're
0:13:06 > 0:13:09getting good education or housing opportunities for people. The
0:13:09 > 0:13:13knowledge and confidence there will be growth in the economy and
0:13:13 > 0:13:17security in the future as well.It is hard for the Dublin to get on
0:13:17 > 0:13:22with that whenever such a fight within the party among backbenchers
0:13:22 > 0:13:25and senior influential people, coming out and criticising the
0:13:25 > 0:13:29party, criticising the leadership. Until there is more clarity on
0:13:29 > 0:13:35Brexit you will not be able
0:13:39 > 0:13:41Brexit you will not be able to get on with the other policies because
0:13:41 > 0:13:44there is such a row in the party.We have a range of views, expertise and
0:13:44 > 0:13:46great talent to draw on all stop people putting their ideas forward.
0:13:46 > 0:13:49Jacob is a really good example of that. We saw what happened the other
0:13:49 > 0:13:52night with the hard left doing everything they can to try to stop
0:13:52 > 0:13:55people having their safest we have to ultimately make decisions about
0:13:55 > 0:14:03what we think is right for the country in the longer run. -- having
0:14:03 > 0:14:08their say about what we have to ultimately make decisions about.Do
0:14:08 > 0:14:18you worry whether there is a hidden agenda?My experience has been the
0:14:18 > 0:14:22civil service in this country has been superb. They work hard in the
0:14:22 > 0:14:26best interests of the Government. It is their job to give impartial
0:14:26 > 0:14:31views. You think they do? That is one reason why the world is envious
0:14:31 > 0:14:35of our civil service and rightly so. Our job as ministers and the
0:14:35 > 0:14:40Government ultimately is to make decisions on their behalf as you
0:14:40 > 0:14:43give consideration and ultimately we are the ones who have to make the
0:14:43 > 0:14:48decisions.Jacob Rees Mogg says they are fiddling the figures and putting
0:14:48 > 0:14:54out information that is wrong.As Amber Rudd herself said, one of the
0:14:54 > 0:15:01most gracious and intelligent people I know, on this, I slightly
0:15:01 > 0:15:06disagree. Perhaps they are doing. In the leaked reports, which have not
0:15:06 > 0:15:12been approved and signed off by ministers, it is about forecasts. It
0:15:12 > 0:15:15does not take into account what the final negotiation will be nor the
0:15:15 > 0:15:18final decisions let alone the domestic policy, which we are
0:15:18 > 0:15:24getting on with. Making sure that people have opportunities and
0:15:24 > 0:15:27businesses can grow.You mentioned the scuffle at Jacob Rees Mogg was
0:15:27 > 0:15:31involved in earlier in the week, some fairly ugly scenes which no one
0:15:31 > 0:15:34wants to see those that you have plans to tackle intimidation in
0:15:34 > 0:15:39political life?
0:15:39 > 0:15:43We cannot allow the hard left to create a situation where people feel
0:15:43 > 0:15:48so intimidated they are not prepared to come forward and have their say.
0:15:48 > 0:15:53What we are seeing, and what we saw in the report is actually people on
0:15:53 > 0:15:56the left giving horrendous abuse to people across the political
0:15:56 > 0:16:01spectrum. I do agree, whether someone's views are at the centre,
0:16:01 > 0:16:05right or left, they should have the freedom and knowledge they can come
0:16:05 > 0:16:12forward and stand as a candidate. We are going to change the law to make
0:16:12 > 0:16:20it against the law for people to intimidate people. But also from the
0:16:20 > 0:16:25Conservative Party point of view, internally we will have a respect
0:16:25 > 0:16:33pledge that all of our candidates will sign up to. If they breach that
0:16:33 > 0:16:40cold, we will suspend them.It's often Labour politicians who are the
0:16:40 > 0:16:44target of a lot of abuse. It is Diane Abbott who gets far and away
0:16:44 > 0:16:50the most abuse on Twitter. How can you be sure these aren't members of
0:16:50 > 0:16:54your own party or your own supporters who are abusing left-wing
0:16:54 > 0:16:59politicians?We have to differentiate. We should be able to
0:16:59 > 0:17:03robust we have our debates. I have debated with Diane Abbott over her
0:17:03 > 0:17:11inability to get her numbers right on police numbers. We have seen the
0:17:11 > 0:17:20Shadow Chancellor... However it is from, it is not acceptable. I will
0:17:20 > 0:17:25deal with that. We need to have good, clear, freedom of speech,
0:17:25 > 0:17:29robust debate with respect and I respect the Labour Party to do the
0:17:29 > 0:17:35right thing and condemn what we saw the other night, and see the
0:17:35 > 0:17:38leadership do the right thing. There's no evidence it had anything
0:17:38 > 0:17:44to do the Labour Party.What we do know is when you have the Shadow
0:17:44 > 0:17:49Chancellor of the country encouraging abuse of people
0:17:49 > 0:17:55individually...He denies that. He says he actually argues against that
0:17:55 > 0:18:04and says he condemned it.What anybody can see, anybody can look up
0:18:04 > 0:18:07what John McDonnell said. We have not seen anyone in the senior
0:18:07 > 0:18:11echelons of the Labour Party do anything to condemn this kind of
0:18:11 > 0:18:17action or come out and say they will sign up to a respect pledge but we
0:18:17 > 0:18:21will do that.Getting back to the Tory party, it is not just the
0:18:21 > 0:18:26ructions that have erupted this week, there has been a lot of
0:18:26 > 0:18:29criticism of Theresa May's leadership, Heidi Allen saying it
0:18:29 > 0:18:34was time to get a grip and lead, another MP said he had a profound
0:18:34 > 0:18:43fear of Jeremy Corbyn becoming leader if they don't get their act
0:18:43 > 0:18:47together. It is difficult to manage a febrile situation in which a large
0:18:47 > 0:18:52number of your MPs don't seem to want Theresa May to lead the party
0:18:52 > 0:19:01into the next election.I know Heidi and Johnnie very well. I have heard
0:19:01 > 0:19:04him be very clear that Theresa May is the right person to lead the
0:19:04 > 0:19:11country and actually Theresa May as someone who cares passionately about
0:19:11 > 0:19:15getting fairness in society, opportunity for people...Why do
0:19:15 > 0:19:19your own MPs not appear to understand that?We should all be
0:19:19 > 0:19:27uniting behind our leader.Funnily enough that is what David Lidington
0:19:27 > 0:19:30said on the Andrew Marr Show last week when he said it was time to
0:19:30 > 0:19:35come together in a spirit of mutual respect. Will they listen to you
0:19:35 > 0:19:40this week, stop the sniping from the sidelines?I have been speaking to
0:19:40 > 0:19:44colleagues and myself, what I get consistently is they want us to be
0:19:44 > 0:19:51focused on the job we should be doing. The job I think most of your
0:19:51 > 0:19:56viewers would want us to get on with is delivering a good Brexit but also
0:19:56 > 0:20:00we have a domestic agenda to deliver, like supporting the NHS,
0:20:00 > 0:20:05making sure businesses can grow, people keeping more money in their
0:20:05 > 0:20:10pocket and a country that is growing and optimistic about its future
0:20:10 > 0:20:13opportunities.One Conservative council got itself in trouble this
0:20:13 > 0:20:17week, they run out of money in Northamptonshire. The leader of the
0:20:17 > 0:20:22council said they had been warning the Government from about 2014 that
0:20:22 > 0:20:28they couldn't cope with the level of cuts they were facing. Did you not
0:20:28 > 0:20:35listen to her?
0:20:35 > 0:20:44listen to her?Across local government councils hopping -- ... I
0:20:44 > 0:20:51do think there are more efficiencies that can be found.In
0:20:51 > 0:20:55Northamptonshire they say they have actually run out of money.District
0:20:55 > 0:20:59authorities can look at how they can do more, about sharing services,
0:20:59 > 0:21:04sharing senior management and saving substantial amounts of money. I
0:21:04 > 0:21:07would encourage those local authorities to look at that
0:21:07 > 0:21:10opportunity because it means they can put more of their time and
0:21:10 > 0:21:15effort and the money they do have is focusing on giving good first-class
0:21:15 > 0:21:20services.You are of course going to allow them to raise council tax, and
0:21:20 > 0:21:24we have had warnings from other Tory run councils as well saying they are
0:21:24 > 0:21:29running out of money. It is a bit difficult though isn't it when you
0:21:29 > 0:21:34have prided yourself on low taxes that many people are likely to see
0:21:34 > 0:21:41pretty big rises in their council tax.We have to make difficult
0:21:41 > 0:21:48decisions due to the economic legacy we inherited. Council tax roughly
0:21:48 > 0:21:51doubled under Labour, I was a council leader where the party had
0:21:51 > 0:21:56run my counsel at the time with increases of 16% year-on-year. We
0:21:56 > 0:22:04have brought that back down so we had the council tax freeze, and I
0:22:04 > 0:22:07would encourage council leaders to look at how they spend their money.
0:22:07 > 0:22:14But council taxes will be going up, you reckon?They will be using the
0:22:14 > 0:22:20ability they have to raise it a few percent to give good local services.
0:22:20 > 0:22:23People are looking at how efficient they are, how they are focused on
0:22:23 > 0:22:27their local needs to get good Conservative governments in May this
0:22:27 > 0:22:29year.Thank you.
0:22:29 > 0:22:31Yesterday, thousands of people marched on the rainy
0:22:31 > 0:22:33streets of London to protest against what organisers described
0:22:33 > 0:22:34as a crisis in NHS funding.
0:22:34 > 0:22:36The Shadow Health Secretary, Jonathan Ashworth,
0:22:36 > 0:22:38was there and told the crowds that under Labour
0:22:38 > 0:22:41there would be more money for the NHS, higher pay for staff,
0:22:41 > 0:22:44and privatisation would end.
0:22:44 > 0:22:48No more PFI hospitals.
0:22:48 > 0:22:50No more Carillion outsourcing, leaving hospitals dirty and unclean,
0:22:50 > 0:22:55affecting patient safety.
0:22:58 > 0:23:00And we're putting Virgin Care, and organisations like
0:23:00 > 0:23:01that, on notice today.
0:23:01 > 0:23:03No more suing of the NHS, no more privatisation.
0:23:03 > 0:23:05Privatisation comes to the end with a Labour government,
0:23:05 > 0:23:08as we get rid of that Lansley Act and restore, and indeed reinstate,
0:23:08 > 0:23:13a public National Health Service.
0:23:22 > 0:23:24And Jonathan Ashworth is back in his constituency in Leicester.
0:23:24 > 0:23:29He joins me from there now.
0:23:29 > 0:23:37Good morning. On that March you were demanding the NHS get the funding it
0:23:37 > 0:23:41needs but we have been looking back at Labour's manifesto and you
0:23:41 > 0:23:45weren't really promising very much more money for the NHS than the Tory
0:23:45 > 0:23:52government says it will deliver.We would be putting in an extra £5
0:23:52 > 0:23:57billion into the NHS this year. You will recall that Simon Stevens, the
0:23:57 > 0:24:01head of the NHS, was asking for an extra four billion this year. They
0:24:01 > 0:24:06didn't get that in the November budget but we would put an extra £5
0:24:06 > 0:24:12billion into the NHS this year.You were talking about an increase of 2%
0:24:12 > 0:24:17per year, more than this Government is promising which is 1.2% this
0:24:17 > 0:24:23year, but historically health spending usually goes up by about 4%
0:24:23 > 0:24:28per year and you were promising half of that.Yes, over 62 years it went
0:24:28 > 0:24:32up by 4% but we would be increasing expenditure quite substantially in
0:24:32 > 0:24:38the NHS in the early years of the Parliament.But to an average of 2%
0:24:38 > 0:24:42a year over the Government?Yes but we also said we would establish an
0:24:42 > 0:24:46OBR for the health service to advise government on long-term spending
0:24:46 > 0:24:51needs of the NHS so we would have an independent body giving us an
0:24:51 > 0:24:55accurate assessment of the demographic changes, the staffing
0:24:55 > 0:25:00needs of the NHS, which would inform future spending decisions. In the
0:25:00 > 0:25:04early years of the parliament we would be spending substantially more
0:25:04 > 0:25:09on the NHS, not just for hospitals which are overcrowded because we
0:25:09 > 0:25:14have lost 14,500 beds since 2010 but also more investment in community
0:25:14 > 0:25:20health service.It's very difficult for you to give statistics about how
0:25:20 > 0:25:23much trouble the NHS is in when you were promising a very modest
0:25:23 > 0:25:28increase in spending of 2%. Under the last Labour government, health
0:25:28 > 0:25:33spending rose by 6% per year, under Margaret Thatcher's government it
0:25:33 > 0:25:40went up by 3% a year. Your manifesto pledge was to give the NHS on
0:25:40 > 0:25:44average less money than Margaret Thatcher did.But we would be
0:25:44 > 0:25:50allocating £5 billion for the NHS. You say it is a modest increase, if
0:25:50 > 0:25:54I could say it is substantially more than this Government is putting into
0:25:54 > 0:26:00the NHS and when you have Simon Stevens saying the NHS needs four
0:26:00 > 0:26:03billion this year, we were promising more than that so you say it is
0:26:03 > 0:26:06modest but I suggest it is a significant level of investment
0:26:06 > 0:26:12which would allow us to get waiting lists down. They could reach 5
0:26:12 > 0:26:16million under the Government. It would allow us to deal with
0:26:16 > 0:26:24overcrowded hospitals and allow us to invest in
0:26:25 > 0:26:28to invest in community health services, stop the cuts to child and
0:26:28 > 0:26:30adolescent mental health services, allow us to recruit so we have the
0:26:30 > 0:26:41nurses we need.That is what you can buy for £5 billion you say, is
0:26:41 > 0:26:46scrapping tuition fees are better use of the money?I'm always going
0:26:46 > 0:26:54to argue for more money for the NHS, as someone who aspires to be the
0:26:54 > 0:26:58Health Secretary.And therefore argue against scrapping tuition
0:26:58 > 0:27:07fees?The tuition fee pledge was a promise made by Jeremy Corbyn and
0:27:07 > 0:27:10John McDonnell when Jeremy Corbyn run for the leadership of the Labour
0:27:10 > 0:27:15Party and proved to be very popular electorally as a pledge so I can see
0:27:15 > 0:27:19why the Labour Party will be sticking with that, but I'm always
0:27:19 > 0:27:30going to be making the case for more money for the NHS. We have seen £6
0:27:30 > 0:27:36billion of cuts and
0:27:36 > 0:27:40billion of cuts and other...It is not clear the amount of money
0:27:40 > 0:27:44offered by Labour will be sufficient to offer their aspirations in social
0:27:44 > 0:27:53care.I would say it would be. Across the Parliament we would put
0:27:53 > 0:27:56an extra £8 billion but we know we have to look at better ways of
0:27:56 > 0:28:04integrating health and social care. The NHS was created in 1948, social
0:28:04 > 0:28:07care was created as a sister service but they have never worked together
0:28:07 > 0:28:13as closely as they should. We are older, with various different
0:28:13 > 0:28:18conditions, we know the social care system and the NHS will have to work
0:28:18 > 0:28:21more closely together so we would look at integrating properly health
0:28:21 > 0:28:27and social care but that is a medium to long-term plan, not something a
0:28:27 > 0:28:32politician can deliver overnight.It was made clear at the rally you work
0:28:32 > 0:28:35at yesterday Labour politicians pledging no more outsourcing in the
0:28:35 > 0:28:40NHS, what does that actually mean? No more private companies of any
0:28:40 > 0:28:45kind involved in healthcare at all? What we would want to bring an end
0:28:45 > 0:28:52to is the way in which, because of the health and social care act from
0:28:52 > 0:28:55for years ago, it means community health contracts have to always be
0:28:55 > 0:29:02put out to tender. Millions is wasted, some even say billions
0:29:02 > 0:29:06wasted, on the constant tendering of contracts. We have just seen a
0:29:06 > 0:29:10children's health contracts go to virgin care in Lancashire. When
0:29:10 > 0:29:14virgin care didn't win a contract in Surrey, they forced the NHS to
0:29:14 > 0:29:20settle with them out of court. Macmillan Cancer Support have one in
0:29:20 > 0:29:24Staffordshire, the Red Cross, St John's ambulance, they all have
0:29:24 > 0:29:28contracts provided for under the very act you say you want to repeal.
0:29:28 > 0:29:39You don't want these people involved in health care delivery?Macmillan
0:29:39 > 0:29:44nurses have had a role since the 1970s. They complement what the NHS
0:29:44 > 0:29:48offers so we are not talking about ending the voluntary sector role.
0:29:48 > 0:29:54This isn't just voluntary services. No, but we are talking about private
0:29:54 > 0:29:58firms where a full contract for service delivery, say a children's
0:29:58 > 0:30:04health service, is handed over to virgin, that means the staff are
0:30:04 > 0:30:08handed over, the only way virgin or whatever that private sector company
0:30:08 > 0:30:13is can make a profit is by cutting down on terms and conditions. It
0:30:13 > 0:30:18means the staff are often down branded, knocked down a level in
0:30:18 > 0:30:22terms of their pay, and we don't believe that delivers the quality of
0:30:22 > 0:30:32care children deserve and that's what we want to end.
0:30:36 > 0:30:40You talk about the long waiting lists. Under the last Labour
0:30:40 > 0:30:44government that they came in at a time in the NHS was and a lot of
0:30:44 > 0:30:47pressure and delivery used private sector companies to work through the
0:30:47 > 0:30:51backlog of people who were waiting for operations in order to get the
0:30:51 > 0:30:55waiting lists down quickly. Do you not think that the NHS as an estate
0:30:55 > 0:31:06now where you may be forced to consider that?The NHS has always
0:31:06 > 0:31:09got extra capacity from private service providers in that
0:31:09 > 0:31:13circumstance. The Labour government was not handing over the delivery
0:31:13 > 0:31:18lock, stock and barrel for the whole sort of health contract.That's the
0:31:18 > 0:31:23difference. But you might still buy in services. When you say
0:31:23 > 0:31:31outsourcing is finished, it doesn't mean the whole involvement of
0:31:31 > 0:31:35private companies is finished?The NHS will not build its own
0:31:35 > 0:31:40ambulances. We will still buy from the private sector. Without capacity
0:31:40 > 0:31:45in the NHS we will buy in from the private sector. If you want to get
0:31:45 > 0:31:48the rescheduled by Easter, if you wanted to do that, the anyway the
0:31:48 > 0:31:54NHS could do that is by buying in from the private sector. There is a
0:31:54 > 0:31:57difference between spot buying in the private sector and handing out a
0:31:57 > 0:32:02complete contract. Take a really in four example with the cleaning
0:32:02 > 0:32:06contract.I will have to leave you on and ask you about Haringey
0:32:06 > 0:32:12Council before we go. Clare Cockburn was on the Andrew Marr show earlier
0:32:12 > 0:32:20and she has been giving interviews, talking about bullying within the
0:32:20 > 0:32:25Labour Party and at council meetings. -- Kober thought she said
0:32:25 > 0:32:30she could not complain to the NEC because she thought that was in
0:32:30 > 0:32:36itself a problem. That is deeply worrying, isn't it?I don't know all
0:32:36 > 0:32:42the ins and outs I have seen what is in the newspapers but I used to be a
0:32:42 > 0:32:43the ins and outs I have seen what is member of the National Executive
0:32:43 > 0:32:51committee until 18 months ago. Clare Kober, if there were specific
0:32:51 > 0:32:55complaints, they do need to go to the NEC and the NEC would look at
0:32:55 > 0:33:00that. Various committees would look at that very seriously.You reached
0:33:00 > 0:33:04a point when a senior member of the party does not trust the NEC to sort
0:33:04 > 0:33:07this out because she thinks they are part of the problem and not the
0:33:07 > 0:33:13answer.I would say that the NEC, in my experience, would look at these
0:33:13 > 0:33:20things. The NEC got involved in mediation talks. I am not a member
0:33:20 > 0:33:23of it anymore but what I understand is a substantial number of Labour
0:33:23 > 0:33:29councillors in Haringey asked the NEC to intervene I don't know the
0:33:29 > 0:33:33ins and outs but it is clear there are two sides of the story. On
0:33:33 > 0:33:38specific allegations where there was a meeting in Haringey where there
0:33:38 > 0:33:42was anti-Semitic chanting in things like that, if those people are
0:33:42 > 0:33:46Labour Party members were they need to be reported. If people are being
0:33:46 > 0:33:49anti-Semitic they will be thrown out of the Labour Party, simple as that.
0:33:49 > 0:33:51Thank you.
0:33:51 > 0:33:53Allegations of sexual harassment and bullying rocked Westminster
0:33:53 > 0:33:54when they emerged last autumn.
0:33:54 > 0:33:57By the end of the year, two Cabinet ministers had resigned
0:33:57 > 0:33:59and several MPs from different parties had been suspended
0:33:59 > 0:34:02pending investigations.
0:34:02 > 0:34:04The Government promised action, and announced a cross-party working
0:34:04 > 0:34:06group to decide what it should be.
0:34:06 > 0:34:08But, so far, it hasn't recommended anything.
0:34:08 > 0:34:10Ellie Price has been finding out what's going on.
0:34:10 > 0:34:15And, just a warning, her report includes some flash photography.
0:34:15 > 0:34:18It wasn't parliament's finest hour.
0:34:18 > 0:34:21Revelations of shady goings-on, of sexual harassment in the Palace's
0:34:21 > 0:34:25bars and back rooms, of bullying in its offices.
0:34:25 > 0:34:29Of course, the vast majority of MPs and their staff were not implicated.
0:34:29 > 0:34:32But it was enough that all the party leaders agreed
0:34:32 > 0:34:35something needed to be done.
0:34:35 > 0:34:38We should not rest until everyone working in Parliament can feel safe,
0:34:38 > 0:34:42valued and respected.
0:34:42 > 0:34:45We have a chance now to get this right, for everyone
0:34:45 > 0:34:46on the parliamentary estate.
0:34:46 > 0:34:48Political leaders agreed to set up a cross-party
0:34:48 > 0:34:51working group in November.
0:34:51 > 0:34:53MPs, peers, and other interested groups have been working
0:34:53 > 0:34:56on the proposals ever since.
0:34:56 > 0:34:59The Leader of the House had said she wanted the recommendations to be
0:34:59 > 0:35:01voted on by Parliament and implemented by
0:35:01 > 0:35:04the end of January.
0:35:04 > 0:35:07But here we are at the beginning of February and still the report
0:35:07 > 0:35:09hasn't been published.
0:35:09 > 0:35:12Sources close to the working group tell me it was held up
0:35:12 > 0:35:15before Christmas and then its scope was widened.
0:35:15 > 0:35:18It was then due to be released on Thursday but I'm told it
0:35:18 > 0:35:23still needs final sign off from the party leaders.
0:35:23 > 0:35:26I've been told there is now broad consensus among members on the group
0:35:26 > 0:35:29that its recommendations are suitably robust.
0:35:29 > 0:35:32Sources close to the talks told me there's recommendations are likely
0:35:32 > 0:35:35to include a new independent grievance procedure for staff,
0:35:35 > 0:35:38consent lessons for MPs, starting after the next general
0:35:38 > 0:35:42election, a new code of conduct, and the one most likely
0:35:42 > 0:35:46to grab the headlines, tougher sanctions, including making
0:35:46 > 0:35:49easier the process to recall - and potentially fire
0:35:49 > 0:35:52- an MP.
0:35:52 > 0:35:55The current situation is one where I would face harsher sanctions
0:35:55 > 0:35:59and penalties for being rude about another MP on the floor
0:35:59 > 0:36:00of the House of Commons than I would if I were bullying
0:36:00 > 0:36:03or harassing a member of staff.
0:36:03 > 0:36:03I don't think that is a reasonable, or tenable, situation,
0:36:05 > 0:36:08and I think we need to give staff, and the general public we work for,
0:36:08 > 0:36:11the confidence that Parliament is not just abiding by the law
0:36:11 > 0:36:16on employment rights and workplace rights
0:36:16 > 0:36:18but actually setting a standard.
0:36:18 > 0:36:22A representative from Unite is also on the working party.
0:36:22 > 0:36:24The union says its members, who work in Parliament,
0:36:24 > 0:36:28have lost faith in the system.
0:36:28 > 0:36:30Our members don't have confidence at the moment that there's
0:36:30 > 0:36:32going to be enough change in Parliament to make
0:36:32 > 0:36:35a difference to the bullying and harassment culture.
0:36:35 > 0:36:38There needs to be positive engagement with staff and encourage
0:36:38 > 0:36:43them, and give them confidence that, if they make a complaint over
0:36:43 > 0:36:48bullying and harassment, that there will be proper investigation.
0:36:48 > 0:36:50And the working group has its work cut out.
0:36:50 > 0:36:54As HR experts consulted during the process point out,
0:36:54 > 0:36:57reforming the existing employment rules in Parliament
0:36:57 > 0:37:01is not straightforward.
0:37:01 > 0:37:04One of the big challenges, you've got 650 MPs, who are all
0:37:04 > 0:37:08running their own offices and staff.
0:37:08 > 0:37:11So, effectively, you've got 650 small firms in effect.
0:37:11 > 0:37:15And the extent to which they have had previous experience in managing
0:37:15 > 0:37:19people, and running businesses, is probably limited
0:37:19 > 0:37:21in many instances.
0:37:21 > 0:37:24So, that's part of the problem.
0:37:24 > 0:37:26But any overhaul of the system is unnecessary, says this MP
0:37:26 > 0:37:30who has been in Parliament for nearly 35 years.
0:37:30 > 0:37:33I think, by and large, the rules work as they are.
0:37:33 > 0:37:36And, if courtesy and common sense are applied, there is no need
0:37:36 > 0:37:39for any change at all.
0:37:39 > 0:37:41Yeah, there are bad apples in the barrel.
0:37:41 > 0:37:45But those bad apples tend to get weeded out pretty fast.
0:37:45 > 0:37:49And I think we could create, if we're not careful,
0:37:49 > 0:37:55a whistle-blowers charter, a witch hunters charter.
0:37:55 > 0:38:01Very difficult for a male of any age to defend against an allegation.
0:38:01 > 0:38:05I'm told the report will be published next week,
0:38:05 > 0:38:07possibly on Tuesday, and MPs will then debate
0:38:07 > 0:38:10it in the Commons.
0:38:10 > 0:38:14But it may not satisfy everyone that it's exactly what's required to put
0:38:14 > 0:38:22this House in order.
0:38:22 > 0:38:22It's coming up to 11:40am.
0:38:23 > 0:38:25You're watching the Sunday Politics.
0:38:25 > 0:38:28Coming up on the programme, we'll be talking about the violent
0:38:28 > 0:38:30scenes after protestors interrupted a speech by the Conservative
0:38:30 > 0:38:32Good morning, and welcome to Sunday Politics Scotland.
0:38:32 > 0:38:35SNP Westminster leader Ian Blackford says he's held
0:38:35 > 0:38:38productive talks with RBS, which plans to close 62
0:38:38 > 0:38:41branches across Scotland.
0:38:41 > 0:38:44We'll be asking him exactly what that means.
0:38:44 > 0:38:47Also, we'll be examining what's changed in 100 years
0:38:47 > 0:38:49since women first got the vote.
0:38:49 > 0:38:52And what can be done to stem the tide of depopulation
0:38:52 > 0:39:01in Scotland's countryside?
0:39:01 > 0:39:04There is a clear opportunity to resettle and repopulate areas where
0:39:04 > 0:39:09there has been a declining populations.
0:39:09 > 0:39:11The SNP's Westminster leader Ian Blackford has said he has had
0:39:11 > 0:39:14"productive" talks with RBS officials over its plans to close
0:39:14 > 0:39:16dozens of bank branches in Scotland.
0:39:16 > 0:39:22And he's repeatedly raised the issue at Prime Minister's Questions.
0:39:22 > 0:39:25Well, with yesterday's announcement that the party's Deputy leader
0:39:25 > 0:39:27Angus Robertson is stepping down, does Ian Blackford have ambitions
0:39:27 > 0:39:28to take on that role?
0:39:28 > 0:39:35He joins us now from his constituency on Skye.
0:39:35 > 0:39:39There are reports in some newspapers this morning that RGS have as a
0:39:39 > 0:39:43matter of fact decided to reverse some of these closures. Is that too,
0:39:43 > 0:39:53to your knowledge?Faster, good morning. I am looking back to Skye.
0:39:53 > 0:40:00I have had a number of conversations and meetings with the Royal Bank of
0:40:00 > 0:40:03Scotland over the course of the last few weeks, and what I have tried to
0:40:03 > 0:40:07put across, and other colleagues have tried to put across, as it is a
0:40:07 > 0:40:11very real threat to a number of communities when we're talking about
0:40:11 > 0:40:16closing the last bank in town. I have been encouraged by the. They
0:40:16 > 0:40:20are ongoing, but I hope we are close to a resolution that will give some
0:40:20 > 0:40:25hope to a number of communities that the Royal Bank of Scotland branches
0:40:25 > 0:40:28can remain open, but these talks have two weaker conclusion over the
0:40:28 > 0:40:33course of the coming days.So they have not said to you that do well as
0:40:33 > 0:40:40a matter of fact stop the closure of some branches?Well, we have had
0:40:40 > 0:40:43very positive engagement. I know that others have been involved as
0:40:43 > 0:40:47well, sort the Scottish select committee have been involved, Andrea
0:40:47 > 0:40:51Radrizzani is that in printable, we recognise that something has to be
0:40:51 > 0:40:55done in order to keep a number of bank branches open. I want to wait
0:40:55 > 0:41:00until we are in a position that a formal and anything can be made, but
0:41:00 > 0:41:04there has been very constructive dialogue over the course of the last
0:41:04 > 0:41:07few months. It has been disappointed when I have raised this matter with
0:41:07 > 0:41:11the Prime Minister, as I have done, and I pointed out that we own the
0:41:11 > 0:41:15Royal Bank of Scotland, the UK state has a majority stake, and the
0:41:15 > 0:41:19Government did intervene in the past to assist in the removal of the
0:41:19 > 0:41:22Chief Executive Officer. Said that the Government should be intervening
0:41:22 > 0:41:26in this case to make sure we protect communities and businesses that
0:41:26 > 0:41:32rely...I know you want to make a formal and management, but is it
0:41:32 > 0:41:36your expectation that at least some of these branches will remain open?
0:41:36 > 0:41:40I want to respect the fact that talks are ongoing, and it will
0:41:40 > 0:41:43happen in a coordinated manner, but I am pleased to say that good
0:41:43 > 0:41:51progress has been made and I expect a announcement.Angus Robertson
0:41:51 > 0:41:55stepping down, would you like to be leader?I would like to thank angers
0:41:55 > 0:42:02for the contribution he has made as God is public life. -- do it
0:42:02 > 0:42:06Scottish public life. He is somebody who is going to be stored in this.
0:42:06 > 0:42:09He has made a fantastic contribution. C the dust settle on
0:42:09 > 0:42:15theirs, and in the short term, I will concentrate on my role as SNP
0:42:15 > 0:42:20leader in Westminster.Why not just say you are going to stand?I think
0:42:20 > 0:42:26that would be precious metal at this moment. Angus has just stood down.
0:42:26 > 0:42:35-- best respectful at this moment. It is not. He may be as completely
0:42:35 > 0:42:39at marvellous as you say he is, I do not think Angus Robertson would find
0:42:39 > 0:42:44it best respectful as you said you wanted to stand.I understand you
0:42:44 > 0:42:49are asking the question, garden, but I will not be committing to that
0:42:49 > 0:42:51today, and this week I will be getting back to my job in
0:42:51 > 0:42:57Westminster leading the SNP group. Of course, I will affect those
0:42:57 > 0:43:02colleagues over the coming days, but I am certainly content with my role
0:43:02 > 0:43:12at the moment.There is a new group called the grass roots coordinating
0:43:12 > 0:43:15group, which are partly some SNP MPs are involved in this.Are you
0:43:15 > 0:43:22backing it? I will back anything that tells bridge across the case
0:43:22 > 0:43:25that there is a real economic said to the people of Scotland every
0:43:25 > 0:43:29alleged that the single market... Are you going to take part in this
0:43:29 > 0:43:34group?Other colleagues will take part in their scope. As party
0:43:34 > 0:43:38leader, but I have done as I have set up a cross-party group with the
0:43:38 > 0:43:42leaders of the Liberal Democrats, the Greens and cloakroom, and we are
0:43:42 > 0:43:49working to take forward the case to the main anything discussed union. I
0:43:49 > 0:43:54believe there is a majority in the House of Commons who wants that.
0:43:54 > 0:43:57What you will find is that things will be happening across a number of
0:43:57 > 0:44:03levels. It is important that people engage in this game in the threat.
0:44:03 > 0:44:08Given this group is setup in order campaign for another vote on Brexit,
0:44:08 > 0:44:12does that mean the SNP is now in favour of another vote on Brexit?
0:44:12 > 0:44:20No. What we are doing...What do you mean, no, because you have just said
0:44:20 > 0:44:25people from the SNP will be taking part?I'm quite happy to answer the
0:44:25 > 0:44:30question if you let me try to do that. We trying to protect
0:44:30 > 0:44:34Scotland's position in the single market and Customs union. But the
0:44:34 > 0:44:37First Minister has said, and I have said previously, we are looking at
0:44:37 > 0:44:42whether or not they will be a set of circumstances where there could be a
0:44:42 > 0:44:46second thought. That is not a preferred position today. A primary
0:44:46 > 0:44:52position is that we need to protect the economic future of Scotland.The
0:44:52 > 0:44:56whole point of the group is to campaign for another vote. I think
0:44:56 > 0:45:03you said you would encourage SNP MPs to get involved, get that is not
0:45:03 > 0:45:08your position.I think what you are asking me, it's not we will work
0:45:08 > 0:45:15with Chuka Umunna and others...No, I said by that you would join his
0:45:15 > 0:45:23new group. You said you would encourage SNP MPs to take part.I
0:45:23 > 0:45:27would encourage SNP MPs to be involved in a process which respects
0:45:27 > 0:45:30Scotland's position and interest, which is remaining anything at and
0:45:30 > 0:45:36Customs union. We will block across the party to do that. We're not in a
0:45:36 > 0:45:41position that we will support a second referendum. That has been our
0:45:41 > 0:45:44possession. I have already expend that we believe that what we have
0:45:44 > 0:45:48got to do is protect our interests in the single market and Customs
0:45:48 > 0:45:52union. What have been said is that the legal beanie question of whether
0:45:52 > 0:45:56or not in the future we will look at the issue of a second referendum,
0:45:56 > 0:46:01but that is not by BR at today. I have long argued that there is a
0:46:01 > 0:46:04majority in the House of Commons for this, and that is what we are
0:46:04 > 0:46:08licking at that.I'm struggling to make sense of this. Nicola Sturgeon
0:46:08 > 0:46:11said she may call a second independence referendum because
0:46:11 > 0:46:16Scotland did not vote to leave the European Union. Yet she will not
0:46:16 > 0:46:23commit to a campaign for a second European referendum, which is being
0:46:23 > 0:46:27supported by people within the Conservative Party, the Labour Party
0:46:27 > 0:46:29and officially by the Liberal Democrats.I don't quite see the
0:46:29 > 0:46:37logic. The Scottish Government as just published Scotland's plays in
0:46:37 > 0:46:40Europe and that is about the economic sector Scotland. What we
0:46:40 > 0:46:44have been doing at Westminster is giving a voice to that campaign to
0:46:44 > 0:46:48make sure that they can protect the economic interests of this country,
0:46:48 > 0:46:51staying in the single market and Customs union. We are going through
0:46:51 > 0:46:56the best all process at the moment. We're pitting down amendments to
0:46:56 > 0:47:03that legislation. We will stick with that position.Surely better than
0:47:03 > 0:47:09that would be staying in the European Union?We are trying to
0:47:09 > 0:47:13make sure that we are respecting the possession that take place in the
0:47:13 > 0:47:17United Kingdom when the vote happened in 2016, when we accepted
0:47:17 > 0:47:21that that is taking place as things stand, but we do not accept that
0:47:21 > 0:47:25Scotland is tagged out of the single market and Customs union.You're
0:47:25 > 0:47:30sounding like Jeremy Corbyn now.I think that is rather disrespectful,
0:47:30 > 0:47:40if you don't mind me saying. What was said to Jeremy Corbyn, come and
0:47:40 > 0:47:46join us and let's make sure that we can protect living standards of
0:47:46 > 0:47:50everyone in Scotland and the United Kingdom. It is a vastly different
0:47:50 > 0:47:57position to Jeremy Corbyn, who has failed to engage in this progress.
0:47:57 > 0:48:00We're working across parties.We will have to leave it there. I
0:48:00 > 0:48:06ensure you will enjoy the less of you lovely day in the beautiful area
0:48:06 > 0:48:07that surround you.
0:48:07 > 0:48:14Watching that in our Aberdeen studio is the Conservative MP Colin Clark.
0:48:14 > 0:48:21The Scottish Tories have missed a trick on RBS. It looks like RBS is
0:48:21 > 0:48:26going to cave in and say they will not close some of these branches.I
0:48:26 > 0:48:32think it is quite remarkable that Ian Blackford is undermining the
0:48:32 > 0:48:34work that Pete Wishart, the chair of Scottish affairs committee that have
0:48:34 > 0:48:41been taking the lead on this along with the vice-chair, and it would
0:48:41 > 0:48:43appear that Ian Blackford is trying to take the headlines for this,
0:48:43 > 0:48:48while that committee has taken the lead. It is a bit of a reflection on
0:48:48 > 0:48:52Ian Blackford's security of his leadership.Your committee has been
0:48:52 > 0:48:56in talks with RBS, is that what you're saying?I am not on that
0:48:56 > 0:49:01committee. Pete Wishart is the German and Paul Lambert is the
0:49:01 > 0:49:09vice-chair, and that is an all-party committee, and they have been
0:49:09 > 0:49:13closely working with RBS and speaking to them. It is very
0:49:13 > 0:49:16disappointing that that committee were trying to pull together the
0:49:16 > 0:49:21agreement... That will be announced, but Ian Blackford seems to be
0:49:21 > 0:49:24undermining the work the committee has done by trying to get the
0:49:24 > 0:49:29headline on it. I would love to be a fly on the wall tomorrow in
0:49:29 > 0:49:34Westminster when they speak to each other.
0:49:34 > 0:49:39You said people should vote with their feet if they don't like the
0:49:39 > 0:49:43RBS bank closures. What should people do in towns where there is no
0:49:43 > 0:49:51other bank?I'm not going to prejudge what RBS have decided to do
0:49:51 > 0:49:56but there has been a lot of pressure put on them by myself and other
0:49:56 > 0:50:00colleagues but this is a commercial bank and the most important thing is
0:50:00 > 0:50:06that people realise there are other banks, they can show solidarity with
0:50:06 > 0:50:11cumulative who are losing bags. I'm losing three in the constituency of
0:50:11 > 0:50:18Gordon. In each of those towns there are other options. I think RBS are
0:50:18 > 0:50:24reviewing their policy.It sounds like you are trying to say that you
0:50:24 > 0:50:28no RBS will agree not to close branches where there is no other
0:50:28 > 0:50:34bank.Unlike Ian Blackford I will let the Scottish Affairs Committee
0:50:34 > 0:50:42led by Pete Wishart, I will let them come forward with a statement.Would
0:50:42 > 0:50:47you like RBS to announce that at a minimum they will not close branches
0:50:47 > 0:50:54in areas with no other bank?I would, but RBS have given up her
0:50:54 > 0:51:00service by not discussing what they will do. They don't need this bad
0:51:00 > 0:51:03publicity and I believe people will vote with their feet if they don't
0:51:03 > 0:51:10like what they have done, but let's see what RBS decide.You say you
0:51:10 > 0:51:17believe in the market but it is not just the market, a parliamentary
0:51:17 > 0:51:22committee including Scottish MPs has been banging on RBS's dot and
0:51:22 > 0:51:30demanding they stop, that is not the market but political pressure.Its
0:51:30 > 0:51:32political and commercial pressure and consumers showing the bank how
0:51:32 > 0:51:38they feel. This is a competitive market, there are other ways of
0:51:38 > 0:51:44banking but we have to make sure that communities have basic banking
0:51:44 > 0:51:50and we cannot allow that to run away. RBS have a chance to change
0:51:50 > 0:51:56their policy as I will wait and see what the committee come up with.
0:51:56 > 0:52:00There are supposed to be these amendments to clause 11 of the
0:52:00 > 0:52:05Brexit bill but they haven't been produced. Can you explain what the
0:52:05 > 0:52:12problem is? It's a simple thing to remember one clause of a bill.Why
0:52:12 > 0:52:19hasn't it happened? It was the Westminster government and Scottish
0:52:19 > 0:52:22Government who didn't manage an agreement before the bill left the
0:52:22 > 0:52:27House of Commons and is now going up...The Conservatives have already
0:52:27 > 0:52:33conceded that they will change the clause, it is about one sentence. Is
0:52:33 > 0:52:38the British Government saying, clause 11 is a point of principle
0:52:38 > 0:52:43about word devolution should be, there is detailed government about
0:52:43 > 0:52:48what gets devolved where, if the Government not prepared to concede
0:52:48 > 0:52:54the point of principle until the detailed stuff has been agreed?We
0:52:54 > 0:53:00are very near to win agreement but that is above my pay grade. Who does
0:53:00 > 0:53:04it benefit that it left the House of Commons and went to the House of
0:53:04 > 0:53:08Lords without being resolved? The Scottish Government elephants
0:53:08 > 0:53:14because they do not want to see another factor Brexit. We need to
0:53:14 > 0:53:17work together for job creation and businesses to get an agreement that
0:53:17 > 0:53:21works.Colin Clark, thank you.
0:53:21 > 0:53:24The campaign for Votes for Women was a long and confrontational one,
0:53:24 > 0:53:25pitted against a society dominated by men.
0:53:25 > 0:53:28Perhaps ironic, then, that an apocalyptic event triggered
0:53:28 > 0:53:32entirely by men finally helped deliver that right.
0:53:32 > 0:53:36But only for women over 30.
0:53:36 > 0:53:38The First World War saw the loss of millions of men.
0:53:38 > 0:53:41As the heavy losses continued, women's labour became an essential
0:53:41 > 0:53:42part of the war effort.
0:53:42 > 0:53:45Without women, there could be no victory
0:53:45 > 0:53:52as this taster from an old Pathe documentary acknowledges.
0:53:52 > 0:53:58One group of women who successfully mobilised themselves with the
0:53:58 > 0:54:03Scottish women's hospitals. This film shows one of her units in
0:54:03 > 0:54:06France. When she offered her services to the or corporate, she
0:54:06 > 0:54:14was told, my good lady, go home and sit still, but with the
0:54:14 > 0:54:17determination that characterised the woman, she just went and her
0:54:17 > 0:54:22services were invaluable. The campaign to get women enrolled in
0:54:22 > 0:54:29munitions industries had been successful.I had never been in a
0:54:29 > 0:54:35factory and my friend and I thought, let's do something. We filled them
0:54:35 > 0:54:41with TNT, explosive and detonators. The woman also took on highly
0:54:41 > 0:54:47skilled work as well as dangerous work. Despite fierce opposition from
0:54:47 > 0:54:51male trade unionists, they proved their capability. By the end of the
0:54:51 > 0:54:55war the role of women in society had changed dramatically and they were
0:54:55 > 0:55:01trying their hand at all kinds of new responsibilities. To most people
0:55:01 > 0:55:05it was a scandal that many men fighting for the country were not
0:55:05 > 0:55:10allowed to vote for its government, and when the Government agreed on
0:55:10 > 0:55:16votes for fighting men, it was only fair to include votes for women. A
0:55:16 > 0:55:28by election was held in Plymouth after Viscount Astor had succeeded
0:55:28 > 0:55:30to his family title.The new Conservative candidate was his wife,
0:55:30 > 0:55:33Lady Nancy Astor, who became the first woman MP. I wanted the world
0:55:33 > 0:55:36to get better and it wouldn't if it would be ruled by men. Winston
0:55:36 > 0:55:42Churchill once said, what a remarkable performance, we hope to
0:55:42 > 0:55:48freeze you out, when you entered the House of Commons I felt like a woman
0:55:48 > 0:55:52had entered my bathroom and I had nothing to protect myself with
0:55:52 > 0:55:57except bass punch. -- a sponge.
0:55:57 > 0:56:00Well, with me now are the former SNP MSP and Presiding Officer
0:56:00 > 0:56:02of the Scottish Parliament, Tricia Marwick, and the journalist
0:56:02 > 0:56:04and editor of Commonspace, Angela Haggerty.
0:56:04 > 0:56:12The campaign has not really finished, I imagine.In terms of
0:56:12 > 0:56:19women's equality, we still have a long way to go. Women are still
0:56:19 > 0:56:23underrepresented in through society and workplaces, they faced
0:56:23 > 0:56:28challenges that I don't think we addressed properly. A lot of women
0:56:28 > 0:56:33moved from traditional roles in home to the workplace but they still
0:56:33 > 0:56:38shouldered the burden of the home so it's like the work has doubled in
0:56:38 > 0:56:43many ways, and I don't know that we talk about that enough. Some of the
0:56:43 > 0:56:48work women did before, we don't value as work and that continues
0:56:48 > 0:56:55today.Do you think this solution is due in a sense socialise part of
0:56:55 > 0:57:02that, for example, if it was possible, no matter what your
0:57:02 > 0:57:07circumstances, if you are a woman and you have children, you would
0:57:07 > 0:57:12have nursery provision automatically, is that necessary?I
0:57:12 > 0:57:17think so, it's looking at breaking down barriers holding women back and
0:57:17 > 0:57:22that is one thing were identified, another one is that societal
0:57:22 > 0:57:27attitudes to women and their role, we hear a lot about language, the
0:57:27 > 0:57:34way we talk about ambitious men and ambitious women, it is usually more
0:57:34 > 0:57:38derogatory towards women, but when you think how much progress has been
0:57:38 > 0:57:43made in the relatively short time, it is a bit optimistic to expect a
0:57:43 > 0:57:48lot of those attitudes to have changed as drastically with it. They
0:57:48 > 0:57:59are changing, we are
0:58:04 > 0:58:06seeing in the workplace and politics and moving forward, it still has a
0:58:06 > 0:58:10long way to go but we are moving in the right direction and we should be
0:58:10 > 0:58:12proud of that.Blane McIlroy, the Scottish parliament was due to be
0:58:12 > 0:58:21new in its attitude.The great leap forward was the Scottish parliament
0:58:21 > 0:58:35being set up -- Tricia Mark. It was about 40%, women to men, and while
0:58:35 > 0:58:40it has dropped slightly, I think it is important to recognise that the
0:58:40 > 0:58:47cohort of women that we have elected for the first time in 1999 changed
0:58:47 > 0:58:52the social agenda of Scotland. One of the first bills was about
0:58:52 > 0:58:56protection against abuse, a committee bill in 2001. This week we
0:58:56 > 0:59:08have seen a bill against violence against women and in addition to
0:59:08 > 0:59:16that, 50-50 representation on public bodies, so I think this huge leap
0:59:16 > 0:59:22forward was the formation of the Scottish Parliament.What about the
0:59:22 > 0:59:26social attitudes that Angela was talking about? Do you think there
0:59:26 > 0:59:32are still different expectations on the way in which women who are
0:59:32 > 0:59:41politicians are talked about is more derogatory?It's difficult to say. I
0:59:41 > 0:59:46haven't experienced that myself, my own view was that I was more talked
0:59:46 > 0:59:51about in terms of my working-class background than the fact I was a
0:59:51 > 0:59:57woman but there is no doubt that we have still some way to go. If it
0:59:57 > 1:00:00hadn't been for the Scottish parliament we wouldn't be having
1:00:00 > 1:00:07discussions about poverty, we wouldn't have childcare for
1:00:07 > 1:00:13three-year-olds and for your roles, so there needs to be acknowledgement
1:00:13 > 1:00:17on how the Scottish Parliament has shaped the agenda, with help from
1:00:17 > 1:00:23women's groups out with the Scottish Parliament, but there is no doubt
1:00:23 > 1:00:30that women in Scotland have made a leap forward.You are both being
1:00:30 > 1:00:38positive. The acid test would be if we were in another 15 years having
1:00:38 > 1:00:44this conversation, it would be of historical interest.You would hope
1:00:44 > 1:00:54so but we face some challenges. We have seen some stuff recently with
1:00:54 > 1:00:59the Three movement and there has been discussion about what women
1:00:59 > 1:01:04face, anyone who has a profile, the amount of use they will receive,
1:01:04 > 1:01:09that is a real problem and we need to explore why that is happening
1:01:09 > 1:01:15because that is the kind of thing that may become a barrier for women,
1:01:15 > 1:01:19even if we changed some of the structural issues, if we can make
1:01:19 > 1:01:26women feel like they are in fear when they try to move forward in
1:01:26 > 1:01:32their careers, we will have a problem.Tricia Marwick, I was
1:01:32 > 1:01:36interested in what you said about being working class, did you get
1:01:36 > 1:01:43abuse for that?I saw some of the commentators discussing my
1:01:43 > 1:01:49working-class hobbits and I always thought it was more a class issue
1:01:49 > 1:01:56than the fact that I was the first female Presiding Officer.Thank you
1:01:56 > 1:01:58both very much.
1:01:58 > 1:01:59Romance and nostalgia have long been associated
1:01:59 > 1:02:00with the Highland Clearances.
1:02:00 > 1:02:03The stories of tenants forcibly evicted from their homes
1:02:03 > 1:02:05during the 18th and 19th centuries are still etched
1:02:05 > 1:02:06in the minds of many.
1:02:06 > 1:02:08What's less well appreciated is that the majority of people
1:02:08 > 1:02:11who left the Highlands, and indeed other parts of rural
1:02:11 > 1:02:13Scotland, did so voluntarily, attracted by better living standards
1:02:13 > 1:02:14and higher wages in the cities.
1:02:14 > 1:02:17Campaigners are seeking new powers to reverse the impact of Scotland's
1:02:17 > 1:02:19clearances and help make rural life more sustainable.
1:02:19 > 1:02:21Graham Stewart's been to a former township in Argyll to learn
1:02:21 > 1:02:25some lessons from history.
1:02:28 > 1:02:40Auchindrain. The last surviving example of a Highland township. A
1:02:40 > 1:02:46visible reminder of how we lived and worked, long since abandoned but
1:02:46 > 1:02:51preserved as a living museum to a different way of life.This place
1:02:51 > 1:02:56means a lot to you. It means the world to me. I like the place and
1:02:56 > 1:03:02its history, I would like a lot more people to see it and feel the way I
1:03:02 > 1:03:10feel.And restore this place to its former glory.I would love to see
1:03:10 > 1:03:15all the houses dressed and looking the way they did in the 1800. It
1:03:15 > 1:03:20would be magnificent.Once there were thousands of settlements like
1:03:20 > 1:03:25these as families were to scratch an existence from the line. The
1:03:25 > 1:03:30Highland Clearances decimated these townships but now there are efforts
1:03:30 > 1:03:37to see these communities reborn.We are not thinking to advocate a
1:03:37 > 1:03:43wholesale repopulation to retrace the previous century settlements but
1:03:43 > 1:03:51we are arguing for a clear opportunity to resettle and
1:03:51 > 1:03:56repopulate areas where there has been a declining population, and
1:03:56 > 1:04:02where there are opportunities to repopulate.Campaigners want a more
1:04:02 > 1:04:05enlightened approach to rural development than the planning Bill
1:04:05 > 1:04:10currently before the Scottish Parliament, to give ministers new
1:04:10 > 1:04:15powers including compulsory purchase of areas dedicated to resettlement
1:04:15 > 1:04:22to breathe new life into communities.Its idealistic, some
1:04:22 > 1:04:27might say romantic because sometimes these places are difficult to get to
1:04:27 > 1:04:34with no infrastructure, but there has been a degree of repopulation,
1:04:34 > 1:04:39not of deserted sites themselves but repopulation of parts of the
1:04:39 > 1:04:44Highlands and Islands. We note the population of islands like sky and
1:04:44 > 1:04:52Malle has increased and there has been a phenomenon.Just a few weeks
1:04:52 > 1:05:00ago, residents of Mull backed up community plan the island of Ulva
1:05:00 > 1:05:06and the hope is that it can be repopulated.It would not be a big
1:05:06 > 1:05:11ask to ask people to come back here, there has always been an interest in
1:05:11 > 1:05:15places like this and the fact we have a great primary school close
1:05:15 > 1:05:20by, it offers a chance for families to come here to start up their own
1:05:20 > 1:05:27businesses, so there is a great number of attractions to somewhere
1:05:27 > 1:05:34like Ulva.An intriguing idea, where it can move forward practically, is
1:05:34 > 1:05:42a different issue and a different problem.
1:05:42 > 1:05:48There are visible reminders of the present family life. It was the
1:05:48 > 1:05:51introduction of new agricultural techniques to let him so many
1:05:51 > 1:05:56abandoning the old townships. If people are to return, how exactly
1:05:56 > 1:06:03would you make a living? Is it old adage goes, you cannot eat scenery.
1:06:03 > 1:06:07With electronic technology and the internet in particular have made it
1:06:07 > 1:06:10possible for businesses to surprise in some of these alias that it would
1:06:10 > 1:06:14not have been possible to do so. And a sense, you can work from home,
1:06:14 > 1:06:20especially if you are using brainpower than hand power.Holm is
1:06:20 > 1:06:26powered by broadband rather than call open up a new possibility for
1:06:26 > 1:06:30Scotland's abandoned communities, but in a week when small businesses
1:06:30 > 1:06:34called the provision of mobile phone coverage in Scotland embarrassing, a
1:06:34 > 1:06:38lot more investment is going to be needed to even partly reversed
1:06:38 > 1:06:45clearances and make the rural homes of the future fit for living.
1:06:45 > 1:06:55Time now to take a look at the week ahead.
1:06:55 > 1:06:57With me this week are former Labour Minister Dame Anne McGuire
1:06:57 > 1:07:07and the Sunday Herald's Investigations Editor Paul Hutcheon.
1:07:08 > 1:07:14You want another referendum on Europe, don't you?I just think
1:07:14 > 1:07:18there is a valid and logical argument for saying that people
1:07:18 > 1:07:21should have the outcome of the negotiations put to them, and I
1:07:21 > 1:07:27think it is now... There is an interesting argument out there among
1:07:27 > 1:07:30politicians.Jeremy Corbyn's point of view is that there has been a
1:07:30 > 1:07:34referendum and you do not go against a result of it, so you make the best
1:07:34 > 1:07:40of it.It is a counter view to that, and I think it is quite interesting,
1:07:40 > 1:07:43and I was interested in Ian Blackford squirming on the end of
1:07:43 > 1:07:47your credit as he was trying to ease pain that he may be in favour, or he
1:07:47 > 1:07:50thinks he may be in favour but he is not sure. But there is a valid
1:07:50 > 1:07:59argument to be had.Why did you make of the SNP's position? It was
1:07:59 > 1:08:03difficult to understand, but it taught about having another
1:08:03 > 1:08:08independence referendum to get out of you look, but then Ian Blackford
1:08:08 > 1:08:11said we cannot have another EU referendum because we voted to leave
1:08:11 > 1:08:17the EU, and then do is this new campaign which they could avoid the
1:08:17 > 1:08:21SNP to join.If you catch the official position, they say that it
1:08:21 > 1:08:24is not their feud that there should be a second referendum. They do not
1:08:24 > 1:08:31relate out in they do not rule it out in its entirety. I just wonder
1:08:31 > 1:08:40if that is a holding position formats. At the mental imbalance, --
1:08:40 > 1:08:45is momentum builds, they might change their position. I think they
1:08:45 > 1:08:51would like others to do the running on it. If there was a head of steam,
1:08:51 > 1:08:55by the Lib Dems, and that Labour change their possessing, of course
1:08:55 > 1:09:03the SMP would jump on the bandwagon. I don't think Nicola Sturgeon, deep
1:09:03 > 1:09:11down, thinks a second independence referendum is something she can win.
1:09:11 > 1:09:14RBS. If they don't make an announcement over the next few days
1:09:14 > 1:09:19that they are going to cancel some of these closers, then their PR
1:09:19 > 1:09:23department has handled this very badly.It has gone in the last 24
1:09:23 > 1:09:29hours from maybe two, there will be, almost, given all the comments that
1:09:29 > 1:09:32have been made. I hope they have reviewed it. Some of the closures
1:09:32 > 1:09:43are frankly mad. If you take Barra, for example, a landmass surrounded
1:09:43 > 1:09:49by water. People are told that the nearest bank is a very right and it
1:09:49 > 1:09:52would journey away. It is a nonsense. You have a similar
1:09:52 > 1:09:58position and other parts of the Highlands, and I others's understand
1:09:58 > 1:10:04and other parts of the Borders. It is an exercise done on a map, in an
1:10:04 > 1:10:08office, on paper, without thinking of the implications. Not just for
1:10:08 > 1:10:12the local businesses, but also for the economic importance of a bank in
1:10:12 > 1:10:17a community.What always amazes me about these, as we can take it that
1:10:17 > 1:10:23they are going to stop some of these closers, is that they have got huge
1:10:23 > 1:10:26public relations department were just that by very well-paid people.
1:10:26 > 1:10:30It always amazes me that these companies... Did no one think, hang
1:10:30 > 1:10:37on, there might be a problem?They should see the list to go back last
1:10:37 > 1:10:40to these proposals. Obviously, mobile banking is on the rise, but
1:10:40 > 1:10:45lots of people do not have mobile banking and they do rely on a
1:10:45 > 1:10:49branch, particularly if you live in a rural area and you do not have
1:10:49 > 1:10:55broadband. I do think that has been a PR disaster for the bank. I also
1:10:55 > 1:11:01see the fact that the build-out RBS, we are the majority shareholder, and
1:11:01 > 1:11:08the turnaround and treat us like this.As Theresa May going to
1:11:08 > 1:11:13survive?I think one way and the other on this, depending on what I
1:11:13 > 1:11:17am reading in the news. There was one point last week and I thought
1:11:17 > 1:11:22she had almost reached the tipping point, and I saw the momentum in the
1:11:22 > 1:11:26it is whether or not we had reached that point last week.This week,
1:11:26 > 1:11:32this morning...What you mean a momentum? I think sometimes it is a
1:11:32 > 1:11:37point of no return when the Bush is so great, even though it is not all
1:11:37 > 1:11:42in the public domain, but underneath.There are clearly people
1:11:42 > 1:11:48sending this letters in.There are. And they are in a difficult
1:11:48 > 1:11:51position, because there may be some way in which it can be revealed how
1:11:51 > 1:11:56many letters he has had. He needs 48 letters. It is said that he has got
1:11:56 > 1:12:0242 just now. I think the only thing that is stopping some of the Tories
1:12:02 > 1:12:07tried to get rid of heart as the alternative. We do not have an
1:12:07 > 1:12:11agreement on an alternative. They do not have an agreement on which
1:12:11 > 1:12:18candidate would stand.We do want another election?Presumably, no. A
1:12:18 > 1:12:23general election?No, no. Do you think they could do any better with
1:12:23 > 1:12:29any other leader?Probably. You brought down Margaret Thatcher and
1:12:29 > 1:12:34John Major and the David Cameron, I think it will do the same to Theresa
1:12:34 > 1:12:37May. She has no Government agenda beyond Brexit. She does not know
1:12:37 > 1:12:44what a negotiation patient is my position is good to be in the
1:12:44 > 1:12:50stocks.They argue and forgiving her is if you had an aggregate in advert
1:12:50 > 1:12:54hard Brexiteer, the party would just split, and the very fact that she is
1:12:54 > 1:12:58sitting on the fence and in a sense cannot do very much is actually have
1:12:58 > 1:13:03strength.What I think is going to happen is that she is going to be
1:13:03 > 1:13:06placed into a softer Brexit possession by people like their
1:13:06 > 1:13:10chance, the opposition parties, probably the country. That will
1:13:10 > 1:13:15enrich the Brexiteers in her own group, who are a majority, and I
1:13:15 > 1:13:20think they will bring her down. You will probably see some unlike Boris
1:13:20 > 1:13:27Johnson woggle over art Jacob Rees-Mogg will take over.I don't
1:13:27 > 1:13:33know every cot and camera at the expression on your face...I think
1:13:33 > 1:13:36Theresa May had a gilded life up until she became Prime Minister. I
1:13:36 > 1:13:45used to think she was a head and talent. I think she has nearly got
1:13:45 > 1:13:49heading -- not got talent, nor is it hadn't. They thought of Boris
1:13:49 > 1:13:52Johnson as Prime Minister is horrific.We'll have to leave it
1:13:52 > 1:13:56there. Until then, goodbye.