04/03/2018

0:00:36 > 0:00:38Morning, everyone, and welcome to the Sunday Politics.

0:00:38 > 0:00:39I'm Sarah Smith.

0:00:39 > 0:00:42And this is the programme that will provide your essential briefing

0:00:42 > 0:00:44on everything that's moving and shaking in the

0:00:44 > 0:00:46world of politics.

0:00:46 > 0:00:51Theresa May's big Brexit speech appears to have done the impossible

0:00:51 > 0:00:54and united both sides of her party for the time being

0:00:54 > 0:00:56but is the devil in the detail?

0:00:56 > 0:00:59We'll get the verdicts of former Tory leader and Brexit supporter

0:00:59 > 0:01:03Lord Howard and leading backbencher and Remain campaigner Nicky Morgan,

0:01:03 > 0:01:07and ask if they can really both be happy.

0:01:07 > 0:01:13Away from Brexit, the Government yet again promises to take on the Nimbys

0:01:13 > 0:01:15and build more houses where we need them most.

0:01:15 > 0:01:17We'll go through the proposals in detail.

0:01:17 > 0:01:18And on Sunday Politics Scotland:

0:01:18 > 0:01:20Ruth Davidson on the Tories, Mike Russell on Brexit,

0:01:21 > 0:01:23And on Sunday Politics Scotland - Ruth Davidson on the Tories,

0:01:23 > 0:01:26Mike Russell on Brexit, Lesley Laird on Labour and the single market

0:01:26 > 0:01:33and Humza Yousaf on how we dealt - or didn't - with the snow.

0:01:33 > 0:01:38All that coming up in the programme.

0:01:38 > 0:01:43And with me today, I've got three hardy souls who've struggled

0:01:43 > 0:01:45through the harsh conditions to help me to make sense of all

0:01:45 > 0:01:48the big stories - Isabel Oakeshott, Steve Richards and Anushka Asthana.

0:01:48 > 0:01:51Well, it was as week where politics was often given second billing

0:01:51 > 0:01:54to the weather, with people up and down the country battling

0:01:54 > 0:01:55the Beast from the East.

0:01:55 > 0:01:58But snow or not, Theresa May had her crucial Brexit speech to give,

0:01:58 > 0:02:06and she had a few big beasts herself to contend with.

0:02:08 > 0:02:12Forget the weather, the UK faced a Brexit blizzard this week.

0:02:12 > 0:02:15On Monday, Jeremy Corbyn offered up a clear dividing line between Labour

0:02:15 > 0:02:16and the Conservatives.

0:02:16 > 0:02:24Labour would keep Britain in a customs union with the EU.

0:02:25 > 0:02:27Labour would seek to negotiate a new, comprehensive UK EU customs

0:02:27 > 0:02:30union to ensure there are no tariffs with Europe.

0:02:30 > 0:02:32On Tuesday, international trade secretary Liam Fox

0:02:32 > 0:02:33immediately hit back.

0:02:33 > 0:02:35It would be a complete sell-out of Britain's national interest

0:02:35 > 0:02:40and a betrayal of the voters in the referendum.

0:02:40 > 0:02:45But his speech was overshadowed by a warning shot from the former

0:02:45 > 0:02:47boss of his own department - Sir Martin Donnelly said leaving

0:02:47 > 0:02:50the single market and the customs union would risk the UK

0:02:50 > 0:02:51going from feast to famine.

0:02:51 > 0:02:55It's like giving up a three course meal for a packet of crisps.

0:02:55 > 0:02:58Also on Tuesday, Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson took to the radio

0:02:58 > 0:03:02waves to try to ease tensions on Northern Ireland after Brexit.

0:03:02 > 0:03:04He wasn't entirely persuasive.

0:03:04 > 0:03:07There's no border between Camden and Westminster.

0:03:07 > 0:03:11You can't compare two boroughs of London with the kind

0:03:11 > 0:03:14of difference in the arrangements that would be in place after Brexit

0:03:14 > 0:03:16between the UK and the EU.

0:03:16 > 0:03:20I think it's a very relevant comparison.

0:03:20 > 0:03:22On Wednesday, former Prime Minister Sir John Major said

0:03:22 > 0:03:26MPs should be given a free vote on the final Brexit deal.

0:03:26 > 0:03:34So let Parliament decide or put the issue back to the people.

0:03:36 > 0:03:39And the EU Commission published the first legal draft

0:03:39 > 0:03:40of the UK's exit treaty.

0:03:40 > 0:03:41The proposals were controversial.

0:03:41 > 0:03:43To avoid a hard border, Northern Ireland must stay

0:03:43 > 0:03:46in the customs union if all else fails.

0:03:46 > 0:03:50Theresa May was having none of it.

0:03:50 > 0:03:55No UK Prime Minister could ever agree to it.

0:03:55 > 0:03:58On Thursday, diplomatic niceties with the European Council

0:03:58 > 0:04:01President Donald Tusk, as he got a preview of the Prime

0:04:01 > 0:04:05Minister's big Brexit speech.

0:04:05 > 0:04:09But the real test would come later, when she would need a lot

0:04:09 > 0:04:14of grit to keep all members of her own party onside.

0:04:14 > 0:04:16The big day arrived, and with it some hard truths.

0:04:16 > 0:04:17We are leaving the single market.

0:04:17 > 0:04:19Life is going to be different.

0:04:19 > 0:04:22In certain ways, our access to each other's markets will be

0:04:22 > 0:04:23less than it is now.

0:04:23 > 0:04:25Even after we have left the jurisdiction

0:04:25 > 0:04:28of the European Court of Justice, EU law and the decisions of the ECJ

0:04:28 > 0:04:33will continue to affect us.

0:04:33 > 0:04:36This was also a pitch for a pick and mix Brexit.

0:04:36 > 0:04:39She said all EU trade deals are tailor-made and what Britain

0:04:39 > 0:04:41wants is no different.

0:04:41 > 0:04:43If this is cherry picking, then every trade arrangement

0:04:43 > 0:04:47is cherry picking.

0:04:47 > 0:04:50He was happy, and so was he.

0:04:50 > 0:04:54Despite being stranded and left out in the cold.

0:04:54 > 0:04:57So, has the Prime Minister managed to thaw the tensions

0:04:57 > 0:04:58between her Cabinet on Brexit?

0:04:58 > 0:05:04Time will tell.

0:05:04 > 0:05:09There is more than enough to chew over with our expert panel who will

0:05:09 > 0:05:16tell us what's been going on behind the scenes this week. Anushka, we

0:05:16 > 0:05:20asked the question, has she achieved the impossible and United warring

0:05:20 > 0:05:26factions of the Conservative Party over Brexit? It looks that way, will

0:05:26 > 0:05:31it stay that way?It is impressive politically that your guests will

0:05:31 > 0:05:34both have some praise for the speech but it doesn't mean they agree with

0:05:34 > 0:05:38each other when it comes to Brexit. I'm sure there's a lot they continue

0:05:38 > 0:05:43to disagree about. She managed to do that by doubling down on the red

0:05:43 > 0:05:47lines she already had but saying beyond that we will try to get as

0:05:47 > 0:05:52close as we can to the EU. I don't think the Brexiteers are totally

0:05:52 > 0:05:57happy, they see this as a staging post and happy that what she said

0:05:57 > 0:06:02future parliaments can change it. She has done a magic trick now but

0:06:02 > 0:06:06trouble ahead still.Isabel, a lot of it was how in the immediate

0:06:06 > 0:06:12future we will stay tangibly similar to EU rules and regulations, that

0:06:12 > 0:06:17won't hold with the Brexiteer crowd, will it?Only an idiot would predict

0:06:17 > 0:06:25peace and harmony within the Tory party for more than a few days.

0:06:28 > 0:06:31party for more than a few days. I think they recognise the immense

0:06:31 > 0:06:34discipline the Prime Minister injected into the speech, in some

0:06:34 > 0:06:38ways that means bits of it don't please everybody. There was

0:06:38 > 0:06:42frustration at the way she handled some of the questions afterwards.

0:06:42 > 0:06:47Some would have liked her, for example Nigel Farage, outside of the

0:06:47 > 0:06:51party of course, would have liked her to be more explicit that no deal

0:06:51 > 0:06:56remains an option. On the other hand, had she said that, that is

0:06:56 > 0:07:02provocative. I think Tory MPs found she struck a balance and a great

0:07:02 > 0:07:08feeling of positivity this weekend, maybe not next.Steve, did it tell

0:07:08 > 0:07:13us a huge amount about what Brexit deal might look like? Or is Theresa

0:07:13 > 0:07:18May sitting on the fence about what the future deal will be?I don't

0:07:18 > 0:07:23think she is sitting on the fence. She gave a clear idea of what she

0:07:23 > 0:07:28envisages it to be. Watching it, and reading it several times, I have

0:07:28 > 0:07:32reached the conclusion that she is the only person that can lead this

0:07:32 > 0:07:42party.

0:07:43 > 0:07:45You have Michael Howard on in a minute, you knows how difficult it

0:07:45 > 0:07:49is to do. She can do it and I think they would be daft to get rid of

0:07:49 > 0:07:51her. However, having read the speech, it is full of unexploded

0:07:51 > 0:07:54bombs metaphorically speaking. Like the budgets that go down well on the

0:07:54 > 0:07:59day and then turn out to have hidden bombs, I think this one does. In her

0:07:59 > 0:08:03admission we are giving up things, we won't have the same market

0:08:03 > 0:08:07access, in saying we have given up passporting for the financial

0:08:07 > 0:08:12services already. She did it to show we weren't having our cake and

0:08:12 > 0:08:17eating it, she was honest, but it is depressing to have that candour

0:08:17 > 0:08:20explained so clearly. And in explaining we will be fully aligned

0:08:20 > 0:08:28with the EU in many ways but have the right to diverged even if it is

0:08:28 > 0:08:32against our interest. And the all of this, to have the right to diverge

0:08:32 > 0:08:37at a future date seems fraught with difficulty. I see problems down

0:08:37 > 0:08:44road.Steve's point about only this Prime Minister can lead the party is

0:08:44 > 0:08:47a very astute one and that's what I'm picking up this weekend, even

0:08:47 > 0:08:52from those who have been her harshest critics, at her ability not

0:08:52 > 0:08:56to say too much which makes her seem rather boring at times is precisely

0:08:56 > 0:09:02the reason she can manage these delicate factions. I definitely feel

0:09:02 > 0:09:06time has run out now for those who would like to have seen her gone

0:09:06 > 0:09:12well before Brexit next year. I feel that has evaporated milk. We might

0:09:12 > 0:09:16be in a different place in a few months but I would suspect not.

0:09:16 > 0:09:22Anushka bitchy answer the question about the border between the

0:09:22 > 0:09:30Republic and Northern Ireland? Simon Coveney said he's not sure the EU

0:09:30 > 0:09:33can support the plan she came up with.Both sides can smile and say

0:09:33 > 0:09:38they don't want a border, the question is how you achieve that.

0:09:38 > 0:09:42The Government have put forward these options, a customs partnership

0:09:42 > 0:09:47which is a slightly weird system under which there would be checks on

0:09:47 > 0:09:50the UK border that would then be acceptable for the rest of the EU.

0:09:50 > 0:09:54The problem is the rest of the EU have suggested that won't be

0:09:54 > 0:09:58acceptable to them, and even very senior figures in Government around

0:09:58 > 0:10:03the Cabinet table have told me they think it is a completely unrealistic

0:10:03 > 0:10:08option. The second option is to use technology to make it flow freely,

0:10:08 > 0:10:15perhaps not quite as Boris

0:10:15 > 0:10:16perhaps not quite as Boris Johnson was suggesting, it happens in the

0:10:16 > 0:10:18congestion charge in London. He was slightly mocked for those comments,

0:10:18 > 0:10:22but can there be a way to make it softer in that way? Perhaps there

0:10:22 > 0:10:26can but there is no evidence you would end up with no border. Then

0:10:26 > 0:10:30there's that tricky situation of the EU saying the backstop is Northern

0:10:30 > 0:10:35Ireland stays in the customs union, and the Prime Minister says that is

0:10:35 > 0:10:40unacceptable.Thank you for that, stay with us.

0:10:40 > 0:10:42Theresa May was on the Andrew Marr Show this

0:10:42 > 0:10:45morning, and she was asked how the UK's rules and regulations

0:10:45 > 0:10:47might move away from the EU's in the future.

0:10:47 > 0:10:55Parliament will be able to take decisions about the rules that

0:10:59 > 0:11:01are set, so in the circumstances in which the EU

0:11:01 > 0:11:03change a particular rule, there'd be a decision

0:11:03 > 0:11:04for us to take.

0:11:04 > 0:11:07Did we accept it in the future or not?

0:11:07 > 0:11:09But if we didn't accept it, there'd be an arbitration mechanism,

0:11:09 > 0:11:10an independent arbitration mechanism, so people

0:11:10 > 0:11:12would look at it and say, actually, you know what,

0:11:12 > 0:11:15if the UK doesn't accept that, does it make any difference

0:11:15 > 0:11:16to the trading relationship?

0:11:16 > 0:11:19And they might say no, it doesn't, so there's no consequence.

0:11:19 > 0:11:22They might say yes, it does, and so there would be a consequence.

0:11:22 > 0:11:24So you're saying we might lose market access -

0:11:24 > 0:11:26the more we diverge, the more market access

0:11:26 > 0:11:27we might lose in the future.

0:11:27 > 0:11:29There'd be a decision to be taken.

0:11:29 > 0:11:31Joining me now from Loughborough is the former

0:11:31 > 0:11:34Education Secretary Nicky Morgan, who put her name down on a Commons

0:11:34 > 0:11:37amendment that calls for the UK to participate in a customs union

0:11:37 > 0:11:39with the EU after Brexit.

0:11:39 > 0:11:47Good morning. So you heard the Prime Minister ruling out a customs union

0:11:47 > 0:11:52which is what you say you want, and they will be less access to EU

0:11:52 > 0:11:57markets in future, you cannot be very happy with this speech, can

0:11:57 > 0:12:01you?I thought it was a very realistic speech that set out the

0:12:01 > 0:12:06compromises and hard facts we have to face, and I think it was a

0:12:06 > 0:12:09welcome dose of realism. That's why I think it has been welcomed from

0:12:09 > 0:12:12people on all sides of the debate because we can get away from

0:12:12 > 0:12:16pretending things will stay the same, that we can have the same

0:12:16 > 0:12:20benefits, and be honest with ourselves and our constituents about

0:12:20 > 0:12:29what that means. The reason MPs put down amendments is to get ministers

0:12:29 > 0:12:33to explain their position is more fully and that's what we began to

0:12:33 > 0:12:38see in the Prime Minister's speech on this issue of the border between

0:12:38 > 0:12:41Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland on Friday. The Prime

0:12:41 > 0:12:45Minister could not have been more clear this morning and last week

0:12:45 > 0:12:49that she does not want to see a hard border between them, and that's

0:12:49 > 0:12:54where we are as well. I think there are more discussions to come about

0:12:54 > 0:13:00the two options, as Anushka was setting out, that the Prime Minister

0:13:00 > 0:13:02outlined, and we will have to see what happens when the bill comes

0:13:02 > 0:13:06back to the House of Commons.Your amendment wasn't just about Northern

0:13:06 > 0:13:11Ireland, it said you want the UK to stay in the customs union with the

0:13:11 > 0:13:16EU. Now you say you want to talk to the Prime Minister about this. Talk

0:13:16 > 0:13:21about what? We are either in the customs union or knots and her

0:13:21 > 0:13:27speech made it clear she didn't want a customs union.I can speak for

0:13:27 > 0:13:31myself and my colleagues, many of whom put their name down, it was

0:13:31 > 0:13:35about the Irish border issue because many of us got to the stage of

0:13:35 > 0:13:40thinking how can this be resolved without being in a customs union. I

0:13:40 > 0:13:44think many of us don't care what it is called, it's a question of what

0:13:44 > 0:13:50it does. Does it avoid a hard border and small traders having to make

0:13:50 > 0:13:57declarations each time they crossed the border? I was a Treasury duties

0:13:57 > 0:14:00minister, I visited the Irish border and it is 300 miles of incredibly

0:14:00 > 0:14:05porous countryside basically. People are crossing it everyday for work,

0:14:05 > 0:14:09for trading, and it's not just about the economics, it's about the

0:14:09 > 0:14:19cultural and political significance of not a hard border.The Irish

0:14:19 > 0:14:21government and Irish Foreign Minister Simon Coveney were saying

0:14:21 > 0:14:25this morning he didn't think EU would accept this. Theresa May said

0:14:25 > 0:14:28a long she doesn't want a hard border, just saying that doesn't

0:14:28 > 0:14:33mean it won't happen and the EU don't seem satisfied with what she

0:14:33 > 0:14:39laid out as a possible solution.The first point is, as I said in a tweet

0:14:39 > 0:14:43on Friday, the EU cannot say and Simon Coveney recognise that this

0:14:43 > 0:14:48morning, the EU cannot say it doesn't know what the UK Government

0:14:48 > 0:14:55wants. Simon Coveney also agreed, as the Prime Minister rightly set out,

0:14:55 > 0:14:58this is a problem that has been created by Brexit and it's up to the

0:14:58 > 0:15:02UK Government, the EU and Irish government to work together to find

0:15:02 > 0:15:05a solution. I think it is right that talks will continue in one of those

0:15:05 > 0:15:10areas where it is best for the Irish government and UK Government to be

0:15:10 > 0:15:14talking directly because at the moment what's been remarkable is how

0:15:14 > 0:15:17cohesive the 27 have been in negotiating through the commission

0:15:17 > 0:15:25but there may be ways to speed up discussions, particularly on the

0:15:25 > 0:15:28Irish border issue. What we saw on Friday is the Prime Minister saying

0:15:28 > 0:15:31there's difficult things ahead. People won't remember ultimately the

0:15:31 > 0:15:35negotiations, they will remember the enduring deal that's struck, that

0:15:35 > 0:15:41puts livelihoods and economic security first.

0:15:41 > 0:15:45One of the hard fact is that she laid out is we will have less access

0:15:45 > 0:15:49to EU markets. That is one of the things that you as a Remainer have

0:15:49 > 0:15:53been worried about. Maybe she is being pragmatic and you're welcome

0:15:53 > 0:15:56that, but is that pragmatism not admitting were going to be worse off

0:15:56 > 0:16:03in future as a result of this?I think it probably is. Actually,

0:16:03 > 0:16:08while the speech was well come in its towns, it did set out some of

0:16:08 > 0:16:11these hard truths. Some people have said, nothing will change, it will

0:16:11 > 0:16:16have exactly the same benefits but that is not the case. I am chair of

0:16:16 > 0:16:21the Treasury Select Committee, we look at financial services. That

0:16:21 > 0:16:24industry understands that things are going to change. The Prime Minister

0:16:24 > 0:16:30was clear, no more passporting. People have reconciled themselves to

0:16:30 > 0:16:34this in the city. What next? The Prime Minister is talking about

0:16:34 > 0:16:40mutual recognition of regulations, that is the way to go, that is

0:16:40 > 0:16:43achievable, but this is the start of negotiations and it is a long way to

0:16:43 > 0:16:48go. At least we are now on the starting blocks. Your right to say

0:16:48 > 0:16:53that many of us have been concerned about the prosperity and livelihoods

0:16:53 > 0:16:57of people in our constituencies and our businesses. We welcome this

0:16:57 > 0:17:01speech but we will continue to watch out for any drifting backwards

0:17:01 > 0:17:06towards some kind of idea logically driven hard Brexit. That does not

0:17:06 > 0:17:11benefit anybody. As the Prime Minister said on Friday, reverting

0:17:11 > 0:17:17to WTO is not a good outcome that will benefit people in this country.

0:17:17 > 0:17:20The Prime Minister made clear that the UK after Brexit can choose to

0:17:20 > 0:17:23stay aligned with the rules and regulations of the EU or future

0:17:23 > 0:17:28parliaments to choose to diverged. In those circumstances you will be

0:17:28 > 0:17:32fighting every step of the week to try to stay aligned with the EU, I

0:17:32 > 0:17:38take it?Not necessarily. That was a really well come statement from the

0:17:38 > 0:17:41Prime Minister. It is for the sovereign parliament to be making

0:17:41 > 0:17:45these decisions in future, which is why we had the debate over the

0:17:45 > 0:17:49amendment in December because ultimately it should be sovereign

0:17:49 > 0:17:54Parliament that makes these key decisions in the future. In terms of

0:17:54 > 0:17:57divergences regulation, there may well be good arguments in the future

0:17:57 > 0:18:02by businesses and industry say, we do not need to be aligned with that

0:18:02 > 0:18:05regulation, because there is a higher international standard that

0:18:05 > 0:18:09we can all get around and following that will benefit our businesses.

0:18:09 > 0:18:14The point is, at the moment, Parliament will take decisions about

0:18:14 > 0:18:19things on the basis of listening to constituents, and that is what will

0:18:19 > 0:18:23happen in the future. That is welcome. Financial services, that is

0:18:23 > 0:18:27the message we're getting by, there are some international standards,

0:18:27 > 0:18:31which is what business already comply with, higher standards than

0:18:31 > 0:18:36the EU, and that is what businesses want to on complying with.Nicky

0:18:36 > 0:18:39Morgan, thank you for talking to us.

0:18:39 > 0:18:41Listening to that is the former Conservative leader Lord Howard,

0:18:41 > 0:18:43who campaigned for Britain to leave the EU.

0:18:43 > 0:18:47You were nodding away in agreement with Nicky Morgan all the way

0:18:47 > 0:18:49through that interview. Not something we thought we were going

0:18:49 > 0:18:54to see happen in the studio.You agree with her? I agree with very

0:18:54 > 0:18:58much of what she said and I am delighted to be able to agree with

0:18:58 > 0:19:02her. Can I just say this about the speech on Friday, I thought it

0:19:02 > 0:19:08should the Prime Minister at her best, cam, patient, disciplined.

0:19:08 > 0:19:14That is exactly the kind of approach we need in these negotiations. I

0:19:14 > 0:19:18think Steve Richards was right when he said she is the only person who

0:19:18 > 0:19:22can lead the country through these negotiations, and she showed her

0:19:22 > 0:19:29qualities on Friday, and I think it was an excellent speech, and it is

0:19:29 > 0:19:32something, of course it is a good thing from my point of view that it

0:19:32 > 0:19:36seems to have united the Conservative Party, but more

0:19:36 > 0:19:41importantly, I think it has united the country. I think everyone in the

0:19:41 > 0:19:45country, except perhaps those few people are neither extreme, can

0:19:45 > 0:19:52rally round. People like John Major and Tony Blair? I fear that on this

0:19:52 > 0:19:55issue John Major and Tony Blair are to make love the people who have

0:19:55 > 0:19:59never been able to reconcile themselves to the results of the

0:19:59 > 0:20:04referendum. I think a large majority of people in the country, even of

0:20:04 > 0:20:09those who voted Remain, they now say, let's get on with it and see

0:20:09 > 0:20:13what we can get out of these negotiations. Nicky Morgan was

0:20:13 > 0:20:17absolutely right when she said that in years to come people will not be

0:20:17 > 0:20:21looking back at the negotiations. They will be looking back at the

0:20:21 > 0:20:25outcome.The negotiations matter because they determine the outcome.

0:20:25 > 0:20:29You like the tone of the speech. When you look at the detail, does it

0:20:29 > 0:20:33really amounted taking back control when the Prime Minister says the UK

0:20:33 > 0:20:37will need to make a strong commitment that regulatory standards

0:20:37 > 0:20:41will remain as high as the EU and in practice they will remain similar in

0:20:41 > 0:20:46the future?That is not what you campaign for. In many respects they

0:20:46 > 0:20:49will be similar. As the Prime Minister said this morning, on the

0:20:49 > 0:20:54Andrew Marr programme, these regulations are not EU regulations,

0:20:54 > 0:21:01the international regulations. The crucial thing is that our sovereign

0:21:01 > 0:21:04parliament, in future, will be able to decide whether we remain in a

0:21:04 > 0:21:10layman, which in many cases would be a sensible thing to do, or whether

0:21:10 > 0:21:14we diverged, which could also be sensible. That is what taking back

0:21:14 > 0:21:18control means.The sovereign parliament will decide. Look at

0:21:18 > 0:21:22where we do remain in alignment and a hard fact that Theresa May picked

0:21:22 > 0:21:26out there, in order to maintain access we may have to maintain a

0:21:26 > 0:21:30layman. The EU will change their rules over the next few deals --

0:21:30 > 0:21:34over the next few years. We will end up having to mirror rules that we

0:21:34 > 0:21:39had no say at all in making if we want to maintain access.That is not

0:21:39 > 0:21:45control. We will be able to decide. In some cases it may be sensible to

0:21:45 > 0:21:48change rules to remain in alignment with the European Union's rules but

0:21:48 > 0:21:54in other cases it will not be, and we will be able to decide. That is

0:21:54 > 0:21:58what taking back control means. You're perfectly happy with

0:21:58 > 0:22:03associated membership of some of the EU agencies, medicine, chemicals,

0:22:03 > 0:22:11the aviation safety agency, and with paying a fee to be -- to be a

0:22:11 > 0:22:15member. Very sensible. A year ago you would not have been telling us

0:22:15 > 0:22:21that you wanted to stay a member of any of these agents is a tall.You

0:22:21 > 0:22:24never ask me. You would have been surprised by the answer. These are

0:22:24 > 0:22:28sensible, practical arrangements that we benefit from, and the EU

0:22:28 > 0:22:33benefits.It is sensible. We were promised famously by David Davis

0:22:33 > 0:22:37that we would have the exact same benefits of being in the customs

0:22:37 > 0:22:41union and the single market after Brexit. The Prime Minister herself

0:22:41 > 0:22:47said something similar. Now she's telling us we will have less access.

0:22:47 > 0:22:51When people were told we could leave the EU and maintain the same

0:22:51 > 0:22:55benefits, were they being lied to? Not at all. I think it is a

0:22:55 > 0:22:59consequence of what the Prime Minister has said, that in all

0:22:59 > 0:23:03important respects, we will have the access we need. There may be some

0:23:03 > 0:23:07areas where that will not be the case, but she dealt with the most

0:23:07 > 0:23:10important aspect in her speech on Friday and should have in the most

0:23:10 > 0:23:16important areas we will be able to have access. I think that will be

0:23:16 > 0:23:19the outcome. It is in the interests of the European Union as well as

0:23:19 > 0:23:24ourselves that that should be so. They want access to our large

0:23:24 > 0:23:28market. We are one of the six biggest economies in the world. They

0:23:28 > 0:23:32want access to our markets. It will be on both our interest to reach

0:23:32 > 0:23:36that sort of agreement.Both wings of the Tory party might be happy

0:23:36 > 0:23:41with this. The speech was received less enthusiastically in Brussels.

0:23:41 > 0:23:45The EU will publish their draft guidelines on how they see a future

0:23:45 > 0:23:49deal on Tuesday. If they do not accept the approach that Theresa May

0:23:49 > 0:23:54has laid out, what should she do next?Let's concentrate on the

0:23:54 > 0:23:59positives. We are in a negotiation. There will inevitably be posturing

0:23:59 > 0:24:03by the European Union in the course of these negotiations. That is what

0:24:03 > 0:24:08negotiations always bring with them. But I think, as I say, it is in both

0:24:08 > 0:24:13our interest that we should have a good deal. At the end of the day,

0:24:13 > 0:24:18they want our money. They will not get our money unless there is a good

0:24:18 > 0:24:22deal.It has been said that a trade deal cannot be said by putting up a

0:24:22 > 0:24:26few extra cherries in the Brexit cake. This speech did not persuade

0:24:26 > 0:24:32him that is a deal to be done.He is not in charge of the negotiations.

0:24:32 > 0:24:39Michel Barnier did not seem terribly impressed. Are they going to accept

0:24:39 > 0:24:41the Prime Minister's view that you can accept different access for

0:24:41 > 0:24:46different sectors?Let's wait and see. Michel Barnier welcome the

0:24:46 > 0:24:51speech. There is lots of posturing. It is invading tress and hours to

0:24:51 > 0:24:55arrive at a deal that is very similar to that which the Prime

0:24:55 > 0:25:00Minister set on Friday.You're being very positive about with the EU is

0:25:00 > 0:25:05likely to do. They may well not do that. Is there a point at which the

0:25:05 > 0:25:09Prime Minister may be forced to walk away because they will not meet

0:25:09 > 0:25:14halfway?I hope not but if you go into any negotiations in, I want to

0:25:14 > 0:25:20deal at any price, you will be taken to the cleaners. That is true of

0:25:20 > 0:25:24every negotiation. I agree with the Prime Minister when she says that in

0:25:24 > 0:25:27the ultimate circumstance, no deal is better than a bad deal, but I do

0:25:27 > 0:25:31not think we're going to have a bad deal, I think we're going to have a

0:25:31 > 0:25:34deal along the lines the Prime Minister set out on Friday.She said

0:25:34 > 0:25:41we are going to have to compromise and we are not

0:25:41 > 0:25:44and we are not going to get what we want. We will have to meet someone

0:25:44 > 0:25:48in the middle on this and the response from the EU has not been to

0:25:48 > 0:25:50say, we agree, let's talk about compromise, it has to -- it has been

0:25:50 > 0:25:53to maintain a lot of their hard lines about cherry picking.That

0:25:53 > 0:25:56will change. Their approach to the negotiations on the first stage

0:25:56 > 0:26:01changed. All sorts of figures were bandied about about the money we

0:26:01 > 0:26:06would have to pay and they bore no reality to the ultimate outcome. You

0:26:06 > 0:26:08have to take these initial negotiating positions with a pinch

0:26:08 > 0:26:16of salt.When the EU was negotiating with Greece during its financial

0:26:16 > 0:26:18crisis, they were absolutely insistent, they did not soften their

0:26:18 > 0:26:25lines.No disrespect to Greece, but we are not Greece. The European

0:26:25 > 0:26:31Union needs access to our markets. The European Union needs our money.

0:26:31 > 0:26:35The situation is very, very different from that which happened

0:26:35 > 0:26:39between the EU and Greece.Lord Howard, thank you for talking to us

0:26:39 > 0:26:42this morning.

0:26:42 > 0:26:44As we've heard, Jeremy Corbyn made his own big speech on Brexit

0:26:44 > 0:26:47earlier in the week and he backed a customs union.

0:26:47 > 0:26:48So how would it work?

0:26:48 > 0:26:50With me from Salford is the Shadow Communities

0:26:50 > 0:26:51Secretary, Andrew Gwynne.

0:26:51 > 0:26:56Thank you very much for coming in to speak to us today. We have got to

0:26:56 > 0:26:59make a very different approaches. Jeremy Corbyn at the beginning of

0:26:59 > 0:27:05the week saying he wanted to stay in a customs union, Theresa May on

0:27:05 > 0:27:10Friday pretty much ruling it out. Is it not Theresa May who is being

0:27:10 > 0:27:14honest with the voters by laying out the hard fact, as she puts it, that

0:27:14 > 0:27:19we will have to accept we have less access to the EU market?Absolutely

0:27:19 > 0:27:24not. That we are leaving the European Union is decided. We had a

0:27:24 > 0:27:28referendum, but the Thames by which we leave the European Union is what

0:27:28 > 0:27:31the negotiations are all about and the Labour Party has always said it

0:27:31 > 0:27:36would seek to maintain the benefits of a customs union. In doing that,

0:27:36 > 0:27:40we have set out our proposals for what we think that new arrangement

0:27:40 > 0:27:47should be, I bespoke agreement between the EU in the UK that would

0:27:47 > 0:27:50maintain the benefits of tariff free trade between the UK and the

0:27:50 > 0:27:55European Union going forward. But one in which we are equal partners,

0:27:55 > 0:28:01so we have a say on those new trade deals that are being made and a half

0:28:01 > 0:28:06of the new arrangements between our two trading blocs.That has never

0:28:06 > 0:28:09happened with any other country that has entered into a customs union

0:28:09 > 0:28:14with the EU. Why do you think they would give us an equal say, one of

0:28:14 > 0:28:19us against 27 of them, when it came to a negotiating a trade deal with

0:28:19 > 0:28:22someone else somewhere else in the world?The EU is different trading

0:28:22 > 0:28:26arrangements with different countries.It does and none of them

0:28:26 > 0:28:31have a say in outside trade deals. The difference here, as Lord Howard

0:28:31 > 0:28:37said, we are the largest economy the world. The European Union has

0:28:37 > 0:28:41important trading links with the United Kingdom, it is a two-way

0:28:41 > 0:28:45process, and therefore it is in both of interest that we strike a deal

0:28:45 > 0:28:49that benefits both of us.I do not know what is happening on this

0:28:49 > 0:28:53programme. You are agreeing with Laura Taarabt, he's agreeing with

0:28:53 > 0:28:58Nicky Morgan. It is a very unusual morning.You're all in the same

0:28:58 > 0:29:02side. The difference is the Conservatives have ruled out a

0:29:02 > 0:29:05customs union, and we are saying that a customs union is vital, not

0:29:05 > 0:29:09least that we can give real assurances that the Good Friday

0:29:09 > 0:29:13Agreement and our treaty obligations in the Good Friday Agreement are not

0:29:13 > 0:29:17torn up. We do not want to lose the advantage is that we have seen of 20

0:29:17 > 0:29:22years of peace between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.

0:29:22 > 0:29:25If the EU says, you can remain in a customs union but you do not get a

0:29:25 > 0:29:29large say in future trade deals with countries outside of the EU and you

0:29:29 > 0:29:33just have to accept what is negotiated by the EU 27, would you

0:29:33 > 0:29:38still want to be in that customs union?We would have to look at that

0:29:38 > 0:29:45carefully. We want to be a rule maker

0:29:45 > 0:29:49maker and not a real taker. It is hard to do that if you stay in a

0:29:49 > 0:29:51customs union. Unless you have a new arrangement whereby the United

0:29:51 > 0:29:54Kingdom sits at the table when those trade deals are being made. That is

0:29:54 > 0:29:57the new arrangement that we seek to make. We believe we would be in a

0:29:57 > 0:30:01better position to make those arrangements with the European Union

0:30:01 > 0:30:05because we have approached the Brexit negotiations in an entirely

0:30:05 > 0:30:10different manner. We have said what we would like to see in terms of

0:30:10 > 0:30:12transitional arrangements, the government subsequently followed on

0:30:12 > 0:30:17a number of those issues, but all along we have said that we want to

0:30:17 > 0:30:21maintain the benefits of tariff free custom free trade, and that is

0:30:21 > 0:30:25absolutely crucial, not least for the Northern Ireland issue.One of

0:30:25 > 0:30:30the things the Labour Party was looking forward to have to Brexit,

0:30:30 > 0:30:30and that Jeremy

0:30:30 > 0:30:32and that Jeremy Corbyn has stressed, was the freedom from state aid

0:30:32 > 0:30:37rules, where the EU stops the UK Government from giving financial

0:30:37 > 0:30:41assistance to any particular sector of industry. Theresa May spoke about

0:30:41 > 0:30:44that on Friday and said it would be necessary to sign up to the

0:30:44 > 0:30:49directives on state aid and procurement rules, to keep those EU

0:30:49 > 0:30:55rules. Do you accept that will have to happen?

0:30:56 > 0:31:01No, and we have a different view anyway. When it came to our

0:31:01 > 0:31:06arguments the Government should step in to assist the steel industry in

0:31:06 > 0:31:09Britain, the Government used these fallacies about state aid rules to

0:31:09 > 0:31:13excuse themselves for not giving adequate support to that industry.

0:31:13 > 0:31:17We didn't believe in the interpretation the Government made

0:31:17 > 0:31:21because other European countries have got round the so-called state

0:31:21 > 0:31:26aid rules. We have said as part of our negotiations, that is a red line

0:31:26 > 0:31:34for us. We would want to make sure we could facilitate state aid in a

0:31:34 > 0:31:36number of areas where Labour Party policies have been clearer about

0:31:36 > 0:31:40supporting our industries.If that is a red line, is it more important

0:31:40 > 0:31:45staying in the customs union, if you have to make the choice? The EU

0:31:45 > 0:31:54could say no customs union if you insist on state aid.We believe we

0:31:54 > 0:31:59could get a bespoke arrangement for a new customs relationship, a new

0:31:59 > 0:32:03customs union.I think there's a name for that, isn't it called

0:32:03 > 0:32:07cherry picking?No because we believe this is in the interests of

0:32:07 > 0:32:13the UK and in the interests of the European Union. 44% of our trade is

0:32:13 > 0:32:19with the European Union, 53% of the EU's trade is with the UK so it is

0:32:19 > 0:32:27in both our interests that we sort this out and get the best deal not

0:32:27 > 0:32:30for the European Union but for Britain outside of the European

0:32:30 > 0:32:33Union.You seem to be saying the Tory government are asking for the

0:32:33 > 0:32:36impossible in their negotiations and won't get what they are looking for

0:32:36 > 0:32:41but somehow if there was a Labour government negotiating this deal,

0:32:41 > 0:32:45all doors would open and you would be able to select which bit of the

0:32:45 > 0:32:48customs union you did and didn't like and could have a bespoke deal

0:32:48 > 0:32:53that is not available for some reason to Theresa May.They ruled

0:32:53 > 0:32:59out a customs union, I think that is a bad decision because I believe a

0:32:59 > 0:33:04customs union, negotiated between the UK and the European Union 27 is

0:33:04 > 0:33:09in the best interests of sorting out customs free tariff-free trade going

0:33:09 > 0:33:14forward but also sorting out the issue of the border between Ireland,

0:33:14 > 0:33:20north and south.Labour set out six tests as to whether they would vote

0:33:20 > 0:33:24for the Brexit deal in the end and one of those was that it had to

0:33:24 > 0:33:28deliver the same benefits we get from being in the single market and

0:33:28 > 0:33:32customs union. That was a quote from David Davis, but Theresa May has

0:33:32 > 0:33:38been clear we are not going to get the same benefits. Does this mean

0:33:38 > 0:33:43Labour under no circumstances will be able to vote for any Brexit deal

0:33:43 > 0:33:47that's been negotiated?Let's see what Brexit deal comes back before

0:33:47 > 0:33:51we have a hypothetical vote on this. You don't think there's any

0:33:51 > 0:33:56circumstances in which it could come back...I believe if the Government

0:33:56 > 0:34:01wanted to enter into negotiations to do that, they could do that. The

0:34:01 > 0:34:04fact the Prime Minister has conceded is probably because they have ruled

0:34:04 > 0:34:10out a customs union. We believe that is the wrong decision, we believe

0:34:10 > 0:34:14that arrangement is possible, but let's see what the Government comes

0:34:14 > 0:34:19back with and then we will decide how we vote in parliament.

0:34:19 > 0:34:23Parliament has got a meaningful vote and that was something that had to

0:34:23 > 0:34:27be secured through the parliamentary processes. The Government weren't

0:34:27 > 0:34:32going to give us that right and I think it is right it is ultimately

0:34:32 > 0:34:35Parliament that decides.Thank you.

0:34:35 > 0:34:37It's coming up to 11.40, you're watching the Sunday Politics.

0:34:37 > 0:34:38Still to come...

0:34:38 > 0:34:43As the government promises to cut red tape to get more houses built,

0:34:43 > 0:34:45Good morning and welcome to Sunday Politics Scotland.

0:34:45 > 0:34:46Coming up on the programme:

0:34:46 > 0:34:49No conference for Ruth Davidson but much to contemplate.

0:34:49 > 0:34:51I'll be asking the Scottish Conservative leader if Scotland

0:34:51 > 0:34:52has reached peak Tory.

0:34:52 > 0:34:55Holyrood now wants its own Brexit bill, despite both Nicola Sturgeon

0:34:55 > 0:35:01and Theresa May saying they want to do a deal

0:35:01 > 0:35:02over more powers.

0:35:02 > 0:35:04And I'll be asking the Brexit Minister exactly why he can't do

0:35:04 > 0:35:06the deal he says he wants.

0:35:06 > 0:35:10And blame it on the lorries - have the HGVs been made a scapegoat

0:35:10 > 0:35:16for the motorway chaos?

0:35:16 > 0:35:20We have to realise that our industry delivers everything that is in the

0:35:20 > 0:35:25shop. It doesn't matter whether it comes in a plane or a board, it has

0:35:25 > 0:35:28to go into a lorry at some point.

0:35:28 > 0:35:30Now, her conference is off this weekend because of the snow

0:35:30 > 0:35:32but there's been plenty to occupy the Conservative leader

0:35:32 > 0:35:35Ruth Davidson's mind - not least, the Prime Minister's

0:35:35 > 0:35:36keynote Brexit speech on Friday.

0:35:36 > 0:35:38Beyond that, Labour are now polling ahead of the Conservatives

0:35:38 > 0:35:40in Scotland, at least for Westminster elections,

0:35:40 > 0:35:42putting the Tories' status as the country's second

0:35:42 > 0:35:43party at risk.

0:35:43 > 0:35:46And the Tories may have to deal with what they see as the threat

0:35:46 > 0:35:48of another independence referendum if Nicola Sturgeon decides

0:35:48 > 0:35:50later this year there should another one.

0:35:50 > 0:35:58Ruth Davidson joins me now.

0:35:59 > 0:36:02Can we start on the independence referendum. Nicola Sturgeon her

0:36:02 > 0:36:06search make up her mind whether to call another one later this year.

0:36:06 > 0:36:10David Mundell was talking about it in the lead up to your party

0:36:10 > 0:36:13conference, which didn't happen because of the snow. He said on this

0:36:13 > 0:36:18programme and July 2016 that if Nicola Sturgeon does call another

0:36:18 > 0:36:24referendum, the British Government is should not stop. -- you said on

0:36:24 > 0:36:29this programme.Nicola Sturgeon already tried in March last year.

0:36:29 > 0:36:32Myself, the Prime Minister and the Secretary of State were pretty clear

0:36:32 > 0:36:36that there was not the time for it. He got a pretty strong and

0:36:36 > 0:36:42resounding response from the Scottish people. -- you got. It took

0:36:42 > 0:36:46away a third of their MPs at the snap general election if he

0:36:46 > 0:36:51regretted. There is no grants for it, there is no mandate for it. I

0:36:51 > 0:36:57don't doubt that Nicola Sturgeon for the entirety of our political life

0:36:57 > 0:37:07-- of political life for a referendum.On this programme, you

0:37:07 > 0:37:13said constitutionally the UK Government couldn't block it, no. --

0:37:13 > 0:37:17shouldn't block it. I will continue to argue my case that there

0:37:17 > 0:37:20shouldn't be one because the people of Scotland were promised...

0:37:20 > 0:37:26And to the question I'm asking you. This is all hypothetical. We know

0:37:26 > 0:37:33that Nicola Sturgeon wants one. The reason she once one is because she

0:37:33 > 0:37:40told is back in June of last year. She said that you'd already got a

0:37:40 > 0:37:42structured the Scottish ministers... I take your point that it's

0:37:42 > 0:37:46hypothetical. It was just as hypothetical when you said that is

0:37:46 > 0:37:51additionally the UK Government shouldn't block it.Cause

0:37:51 > 0:37:55additionally, the weather referendum Saban is by having an agreement

0:37:55 > 0:37:59between the Scottish and UK Government. -- constitutionally the

0:37:59 > 0:38:03way that referendums happen is by having an agreement. She has to

0:38:03 > 0:38:06demonstrate the things I talked about in March of last year when she

0:38:06 > 0:38:09tried, there has to be support for it among the country, there isn't,

0:38:09 > 0:38:15there has to be some form of trigger for it and a has-been. Also, she has

0:38:15 > 0:38:18to extend a country that you promised she wouldn't do this but

0:38:18 > 0:38:21that it would be for a generation why she is dragging us back there

0:38:21 > 0:38:28again and people don't want. -- she doesn't have a mandate for it. I

0:38:28 > 0:38:35don't believe she has a mandate.The answer, you stick by -- the answer

0:38:35 > 0:38:39to whether you stick by your statement.Cause additionally, these

0:38:39 > 0:38:42things are decided by the UK and Scottish Government.--

0:38:42 > 0:38:47constitutionally. The UK Government has been clear it with block of

0:38:47 > 0:38:50referendum.Nicola Sturgeon has to show that she has a mandate and the

0:38:50 > 0:38:54support for it and I don't think she got sure any of these things at the

0:38:54 > 0:38:57morgue.He said you would back a legal challenge to the continuity

0:38:57 > 0:39:03built that the SNP proposes. -- at the moment.I don't want this to go

0:39:03 > 0:39:08to court.

0:39:09 > 0:39:12to court. There is an issue about the Scottish Government claiming to

0:39:12 > 0:39:18stand on a high horse of defending devolution but running roughshod

0:39:18 > 0:39:23over the position of the Presiding Officer that something is outside of

0:39:23 > 0:39:26the parliament's competency and saying that they have proposed a

0:39:26 > 0:39:30through as an emergency bill to as a something contentious, a finely

0:39:30 > 0:39:34balanced point of law, is only going to be given three days of debate

0:39:34 > 0:39:39about it for members. There is an issue with the way this has been

0:39:39 > 0:39:44handled this week.He said that you would welcome a legal challenge.

0:39:44 > 0:39:47Would you consider initiating? -- you said that you would welcome.I

0:39:47 > 0:39:51don't see a way that if something is outside the confidence of the

0:39:51 > 0:39:55parliament that it is pushed through the Government anyway, but it

0:39:55 > 0:39:57doesn't end up "

0:39:57 > 0:40:00the Government anyway, but it doesn't end up ". I know from

0:40:00 > 0:40:03speaking to my colleagues in Westminster that they would

0:40:03 > 0:40:08agreement on clause 11 of the Brexit withdrawal bill, too, but I do think

0:40:08 > 0:40:13there was a foolish this week of the SNP deciding to introduce something

0:40:13 > 0:40:16against the wishes of the Presiding Officer of the parliament, who are

0:40:16 > 0:40:23taking legal advice from the parliament, the legal advisers of

0:40:23 > 0:40:26the parliament, then CNV will do it against the advice and also some

0:40:26 > 0:40:31through as an emergency bill so that there is only three days debate

0:40:31 > 0:40:35about it. -- then not only did they do it against the advice but also

0:40:35 > 0:40:45they will ram it through as inevitable.The S&P worried that Ken

0:40:45 > 0:40:48Macintosh could set a precedent for any attempt to have another

0:40:48 > 0:40:52independence referendum. -- the SNP. Do think it's possible the Presiding

0:40:52 > 0:41:00Officer Google similar grounds -- could rule on similar grounds that

0:41:00 > 0:41:03the Scottish Parliament having a independence referendum is

0:41:03 > 0:41:10ultraviolet?The only president is being set this week is that --

0:41:10 > 0:41:13precedent being said is that the first time the Scottish Government

0:41:13 > 0:41:18has rammed through a bill against the suggestion and even of a

0:41:18 > 0:41:23Presiding Officer. The second precedent is that this is the first

0:41:23 > 0:41:28time that emergency legislation has been suggested without unanimous

0:41:28 > 0:41:31agreement throughout the parliament. These are the only two precedents

0:41:31 > 0:41:38set this week in terms of Holyrood. Gritters apply to a referendum -- it

0:41:38 > 0:41:41is applied to a referendum on independence?The Presiding Officer

0:41:41 > 0:41:48has always taken the best legal advice available to him or her. I do

0:41:48 > 0:41:55think that if we spoke about the specific instance of independence

0:41:55 > 0:41:58referendum, we have what has been referred to by both sides as the

0:41:58 > 0:42:02gold standard of how that happens, that has been through, it was called

0:42:02 > 0:42:06the Edinburgh agreement last time, it's an agreement between the

0:42:06 > 0:42:09Scottish and UK governments because constitutional issues are reserved

0:42:09 > 0:42:15and that is why the presiding Officer flaw that this withdrawal

0:42:15 > 0:42:30bill that has been put forward by the SNP is ultra vires.It was said

0:42:30 > 0:42:36that Europe is fresh, young...I am still in my 30s, so I'm still young!

0:42:36 > 0:42:41And clinging on with my fingertips. The idea was that you were in favour

0:42:41 > 0:42:45of being in the single market, getting rid of freedom of movement.

0:42:45 > 0:42:52The priority for you. You seem to have been backpacking ever since. --

0:42:52 > 0:42:56backtracking ever since. Is there anything you disagree about with

0:42:56 > 0:43:02Theresa May on Brexit?We both disagree with the result that

0:43:02 > 0:43:07happen, we were both Remain. 17 1/2-million people across the

0:43:07 > 0:43:12country, including over a million in Scotland, voted for this. There is a

0:43:12 > 0:43:15lot about the Brexit process that I don't like. It is going to happen,

0:43:15 > 0:43:20it was voted on across the UK. If politicians decide that is so big

0:43:20 > 0:43:24that it has to be taken outside of representative democracy and habit

0:43:24 > 0:43:28as direct property to everything of water, you've got to got to listen

0:43:28 > 0:43:37to this. -- and handed to every single voter, you've got to listen.

0:43:37 > 0:43:44I was quite clear. Clearly, I do support it, physical market, and do,

0:43:44 > 0:43:50because I had campaigned for Remain. -- the single market. I'm very sad

0:43:50 > 0:43:55that my cider. Win but it is about what we can do under the way out of

0:43:55 > 0:44:01your -- on the way out of your to mitigate the risks of Brexit. Also

0:44:01 > 0:44:05exporting any opportunities. One of the things I been arguing for a very

0:44:05 > 0:44:10hard, including directly with the Prime Minister, is that we have to

0:44:10 > 0:44:16get fishing rights. I was pleased to hear on Friday in her speech for the

0:44:16 > 0:44:18first time that a fishing was mentioned by name but the principles

0:44:18 > 0:44:26that we would support and what we take into the room. Even the biggest

0:44:26 > 0:44:34Remainers becomes Brexit because of fishing. This is a particularly

0:44:34 > 0:44:38important sector to Scotland and that is what me and babies have been

0:44:38 > 0:44:43doing on this issue, speaking up. You asked me to give me an example.

0:44:43 > 0:44:47-- at me and my MPs. I've spoken to the secretary of state for

0:44:47 > 0:44:49different, sat down with the Chancellor, to talk about the

0:44:49 > 0:44:55importance of fishing and how there is a predictable to go down to

0:44:55 > 0:44:59maximise that. You asked for an example -- a particular route to go

0:44:59 > 0:45:08down.Here is my Ultra condensed version of juries May's speech. We

0:45:08 > 0:45:12are leaving the single market, free movement of people come to an end,

0:45:12 > 0:45:19the UK is glad to leave the customs union. You agree with that?I want

0:45:19 > 0:45:23to see free trade, I would be happy to see other ways of doing it.

0:45:23 > 0:45:27That's why I voted and campaign for Remain. The Prime Minister has said

0:45:27 > 0:45:31she was a conference of free trade agreement that covers all of that.

0:45:31 > 0:45:36Les Kiss for the space to negotiate in the room. -- lit skipper of the

0:45:36 > 0:45:40space. That is what this was about, it was giving the negotiating team

0:45:40 > 0:45:45the ability to look at each individual issue.On the subject of

0:45:45 > 0:45:56negotiations, you argued after the referendum

0:45:58 > 0:46:00that the Scottish Government should have a role in the Brexit the

0:46:00 > 0:46:02conscientious. What happened to that idea? He has been regular beatings

0:46:02 > 0:46:05of the GMC, the next one is on Tuesday. That is about the

0:46:05 > 0:46:07devolution of power. You arguing that the Scottish governor should

0:46:07 > 0:46:11have a role in the Brexit ago she wishes in Europe.I didn't say, I

0:46:11 > 0:46:17was clear about this one Nicola Sturgeon search wanted a seat at the

0:46:17 > 0:46:21negotiating table, my worry was that what side of the table she would sit

0:46:21 > 0:46:26on. She wanted to stay in the EU. The bottom line is that what started

0:46:26 > 0:46:30off as that you would take a different line, you're pro-European,

0:46:30 > 0:46:35actually ends up as a green pretty much with everything, I take your

0:46:35 > 0:46:41point about fishing, that Theresa May says. -- ends up as agreeing

0:46:41 > 0:46:44pretty much. A football club would say that you are Theresa May in

0:46:44 > 0:46:51disguise.There are significant differences between Theresa May and

0:46:51 > 0:46:57I. There is an issue but we are in negotiations. My job as the leader

0:46:57 > 0:47:00of the Scottish Conservative Party, the Leader of the Opposition in

0:47:00 > 0:47:05Scotland, is to make sure that industries and sectors in Scotland

0:47:05 > 0:47:07that are particularly important, recognised opportunities they can

0:47:07 > 0:47:11get out of Europe, it's to make sure they can get access to the UK

0:47:11 > 0:47:14Government. That's what I'd be doing. Free dig in what they've been

0:47:14 > 0:47:19so you are making sure they can sit down with UK ministers themselves.

0:47:19 > 0:47:24-- reading in what they've been saying.Will you still be the next

0:47:24 > 0:47:27First Minister, given there's been a slippage in the polls?I think we

0:47:27 > 0:47:32can be and we can see how we should be. We already have more SNP is that

0:47:32 > 0:47:37the SNP did in the tremor that they had before -- we already have more

0:47:37 > 0:47:42MSP 's than the SNP did in the tour before they took office. They said

0:47:42 > 0:47:48that we couldn't get 13 MPs since June. We've gone up and up, you say

0:47:48 > 0:47:54we fit beak and yet more and more people are are voting for us across

0:47:54 > 0:47:59Scotland. I hope that the Scottish people can appreciate what the

0:47:59 > 0:48:03Scottish Conservatives are doing. Are you going to be the next Prime

0:48:03 > 0:48:05Minister?No.

0:48:05 > 0:48:08It was a fair bet that the Scottish Government wouldn't find much

0:48:08 > 0:48:11to love about Theresa May's keynote Brexit speech - and it didn't.

0:48:11 > 0:48:13The First Minister summed it up as offering more

0:48:13 > 0:48:14detail but no progress.

0:48:14 > 0:48:16Downing Street said this week that both leaders had agreed

0:48:16 > 0:48:18to meet later this month to discuss their differences.

0:48:18 > 0:48:21It would seem that there'll be plenty to talk about.

0:48:21 > 0:48:23Well, joining me now is the Brexit Minister,

0:48:23 > 0:48:25Michael Russell, who this week introduced the Scottish

0:48:25 > 0:48:31Government's alternative to the EU Withdrawal Bill.

0:48:31 > 0:48:40Not quite as nice a view today.That is because it is snowing at the

0:48:40 > 0:48:44moment.We will keep this brief to let you get out of it. Can you

0:48:44 > 0:48:48explain exactly what the problem is. The way it has been expertly by the

0:48:48 > 0:48:52Conservatives is that the British Government is proposing that

0:48:52 > 0:48:57everything will be devolved, they would change clause 11, that the

0:48:57 > 0:49:00Scottish parliament would agree not to change certain things and tell a

0:49:00 > 0:49:04common UK framework is worked out. Is that what is being proposed?No,

0:49:04 > 0:49:09not as far as I'm concerned. The problem that exists is on the single

0:49:09 > 0:49:16would agree. If I meet David Lidington on Thursday, along with my

0:49:16 > 0:49:20Welsh Greg Burke, if they are prepared to put on the table and

0:49:20 > 0:49:23amendment to their own bill that means that the Scottish parliament

0:49:23 > 0:49:26will agree to any framework, and will agree how its governed, we can

0:49:26 > 0:49:34do that deal. -- on the table an amendment.The sticking point is

0:49:34 > 0:49:39that they've agreed to devolve everything but on the common

0:49:39 > 0:49:41framework you want it written into the deal that the Scottish

0:49:41 > 0:49:46parliament would have to agree to any specific measure that becomes

0:49:46 > 0:49:52part of the common framework?And that is the position of the Welsh.

0:49:52 > 0:49:55Rebecca is clear that we are quite happy with the idea of frameworks.

0:49:55 > 0:50:00-- we've made it clear that we are happy. But it has to be agreed.

0:50:00 > 0:50:04Those powers that exist in Scotland. Without agreeing to it, they could

0:50:04 > 0:50:09conceivably oppose frameworks that would write the code and waters do

0:50:09 > 0:50:13work that was already being done to support farmers. -- they could ride

0:50:13 > 0:50:17their coat and horses through work that was already being done. David

0:50:17 > 0:50:21Mundell said that nothing was good to be imposed yesterday. That's

0:50:21 > 0:50:26exactly what we want. -- was good to say that nothing was going to be

0:50:26 > 0:50:30imposed yesterday.Have they said they would allow the Scottish

0:50:30 > 0:50:33parliament to agree specific measures that become part of a

0:50:33 > 0:50:40common fruit have they proposed some of mediation body?

0:50:40 > 0:50:45The present position is they have not agreed to the word" agree". The

0:50:45 > 0:50:50word they are using is consult. The consultation has got us nowhere and

0:50:50 > 0:50:54there has to be the word agree and if that exists and we can find a way

0:50:54 > 0:50:57in which the Scottish Parliament agrees to these frameworks, but the

0:50:57 > 0:51:02subject and governance, then we can do a deal. If we cannot, that will

0:51:02 > 0:51:09not happen.To be clear, as matters stand, the British Government is

0:51:09 > 0:51:14saying, according to you, let's say there is a disagreement on payment

0:51:14 > 0:51:18standards or something, that they would just do it, that is now a UK

0:51:18 > 0:51:23affair and you don't have control over that whereas you are saying we

0:51:23 > 0:51:26will vote on the payment standard in the Scottish Parliament and if we

0:51:26 > 0:51:30agree it is part of a common framework, it will be.Absolutely.

0:51:30 > 0:51:35That is the basis of devolution and respect the devolved settlement, how

0:51:35 > 0:51:40we operate. There are some differences in certain areas,

0:51:40 > 0:51:44otherwise we couldn't do minimum pricing on alcohol, for example. All

0:51:44 > 0:51:48we're asking if the UK Government observe this and we are willing to

0:51:48 > 0:51:52do things on this basis and have been for months. As long as that can

0:51:52 > 0:51:56be agreed, either this week in London or at the meeting in Downing

0:51:56 > 0:52:00Street next week, then we can do a deal. If we cannot, there will be no

0:52:00 > 0:52:06deal. Simple that.How would it affect the future? Let's say the

0:52:06 > 0:52:10Scottish Parliament must agree on things that are part of a common

0:52:10 > 0:52:16framework and the British Government decides to change Trading Standards,

0:52:16 > 0:52:20said, are you saying they would have the right to do that or would they

0:52:20 > 0:52:25have to come back to the Scottish Parliament?If it is covered as a

0:52:25 > 0:52:29devolved area, it would be hazard is now. If there was a requirement

0:52:29 > 0:52:33under the framework for it to be unified, then we would all agree to

0:52:33 > 0:52:38make those steps. This is commonplace. The problem in other

0:52:38 > 0:52:41places is that they have never looked up and seeing what happens in

0:52:41 > 0:52:44the rest of the world, they seem to be terrified in some way this will

0:52:44 > 0:52:49affect their ability to sign trade deals. It happens in Canada and

0:52:49 > 0:52:54right across the world. What they want to do is have a veto on things

0:52:54 > 0:52:57that are part of the devolved settlement for Scotland, Wales and

0:52:57 > 0:52:59Northern Ireland and we're not prepared to accept that. We have

0:52:59 > 0:53:04been saying this very clearly since the bill was published. It cannot be

0:53:04 > 0:53:07a surprise to them, so what they have to do is accept that is what

0:53:07 > 0:53:11they need to do and then we can move ahead. None of us want Brexit. I

0:53:11 > 0:53:15have been listening to Ruth Davidson with incredulity, she changes her

0:53:15 > 0:53:19position daily. But none of us really want Brexit. Those of us are

0:53:19 > 0:53:25looking at this disaster unfolding but this is about legal cliff edge

0:53:25 > 0:53:32and we are trying to resolve it. Don't turn round to quickly but the

0:53:32 > 0:53:37Beast from the East is right at your back. We had better let you go!

0:53:37 > 0:53:42Indeed.Thank you.

0:53:42 > 0:53:44Well, weather permitting, Scottish Labour gathers

0:53:44 > 0:53:47for its conference later this week in the knowledge that

0:53:47 > 0:53:49Jeremy Corbyn's support of a customs union post-Brexit has established

0:53:49 > 0:53:51a clear dividing line between Labour and the Tories.

0:53:51 > 0:53:53They also know that the Prime Minister's Brexit speech last week

0:53:53 > 0:53:57was better received by the two wings of her party than many Labour

0:53:57 > 0:53:58supporters had anticipated.

0:53:58 > 0:54:00Well, on the line from London now is the Shadow Secretary

0:54:00 > 0:54:04of State for Scotland, Lesley Laird.

0:54:04 > 0:54:09Are you happy with the idea that Labour backs a customs union?Good

0:54:09 > 0:54:13morning, Gordon. Yes, I think the party is happy that Labour is

0:54:13 > 0:54:18backing a customs union. I think since Jeremy made the announcement

0:54:18 > 0:54:22earlier this week, I think the party has very much got behind this and is

0:54:22 > 0:54:27unified in the approach and I am delighted.Single market?The single

0:54:27 > 0:54:33market, as we have consistently said, is that when we leave the EU,

0:54:33 > 0:54:37the current single market and the current customs union agreement

0:54:37 > 0:54:44falls away and the recognition is that we would need to negotiate new

0:54:44 > 0:54:52arrangements...We will discuss the difference between the

0:54:53 > 0:54:57difference between the word a and the in a moment but would you want

0:54:57 > 0:55:01to remain in a single market with the EU?The current single market

0:55:01 > 0:55:08agreement requires us to be a member of the EU.When a motion is Boutier

0:55:08 > 0:55:14conference and it is proposed by her predecessor, as Iain Murray

0:55:14 > 0:55:17proposed, to stay in the customs union and the single market, you

0:55:17 > 0:55:21would oppose this?Well, we would have to wait and see what comes to

0:55:21 > 0:55:25conference. That will be for the conference arrangements committee. I

0:55:25 > 0:55:30believe there are a number of motions being put and I will wait to

0:55:30 > 0:55:35see...Whether it is put or not, you would oppose it?We need to wait and

0:55:35 > 0:55:41see the wording.

0:55:41 > 0:55:43see the wording. We have agreed from the outset that as a party we

0:55:43 > 0:55:46recognise the benefits of the single market. We have put a job is first

0:55:46 > 0:55:48and economy first Brexit at the heart of our decision-making and

0:55:48 > 0:55:52will continue to do that.Anna Soubry, the Conservative MP, back, I

0:55:52 > 0:55:55believe, by Chuka Umunna, has put forward an amendment to the trade

0:55:55 > 0:56:00bill which would require the UK to remain in a customs union with the

0:56:00 > 0:56:04EU. The Labour vote for that amendment?Well, I think, as we have

0:56:04 > 0:56:09consistently said, and I know that Barry Gardiner has said this, we

0:56:09 > 0:56:13will wait to see what comes forward, we have amendment is over in that we

0:56:13 > 0:56:15will consider and we will look at all of that in the round when the

0:56:15 > 0:56:20time comes.So, you cannot say you will vote for this?I cannot see it

0:56:20 > 0:56:23until we see the full picture of what everyone is going to present.

0:56:23 > 0:56:27We will no doubt have our own amendments. I think there will be

0:56:27 > 0:56:30some consensus across the house that we shall have to wait and see. All

0:56:30 > 0:56:38through this process...This sounds very tepid. You have an opportunity

0:56:38 > 0:56:45to get together with the SNP and perhaps sections of the Conservative

0:56:45 > 0:56:48Party and tell the British Government that it has to stay in

0:56:48 > 0:56:53the customs union and you don't seem to be prepared to commit to doing

0:56:53 > 0:56:56that.We have been the party that has consistently been playing

0:56:56 > 0:57:00grown-up politics. We have consistently brought for word...

0:57:00 > 0:57:04Quite like it hasn't achieved anything. We have achieved a lot of

0:57:04 > 0:57:09practical things. Around the transition period. The Conservatives

0:57:09 > 0:57:16had taken that off the table. We also have been pushing the Scottish

0:57:16 > 0:57:19Conservatives around clause 11 and you have just been debating clause

0:57:19 > 0:57:2411 and the contingency bill that is now required. And that is because of

0:57:24 > 0:57:28the shambolic way around which the Tory Government are handling this.

0:57:28 > 0:57:32So, Labour are doing what they should be doing, which is acting as

0:57:32 > 0:57:37irresponsible opposition and playing grown-up politics.You could simply

0:57:37 > 0:57:41say, I should make clear we're not talking about the Brexit bill, this

0:57:41 > 0:57:46is a trade bill which provides for continuity after they leave the EU.

0:57:46 > 0:57:50You could quite easily say, if there is an amendment saying we should

0:57:50 > 0:57:53stay in a customs union, we will back that. But other than saying,

0:57:53 > 0:57:58let's wait and see, you could say, the Labour Party will put forward an

0:57:58 > 0:58:01amendment demanding that Britain stay in a customs union and will try

0:58:01 > 0:58:04to get cross-party support to get that through Parliament so we will

0:58:04 > 0:58:10stay in a customs union.As I iterated at the start, Gordon, we

0:58:10 > 0:58:13will bring forward our own amendments and clearly if there is

0:58:13 > 0:58:17opportunity to work in partnership with other parties, we have done

0:58:17 > 0:58:21this previously, we worked with Dominic Grieve when he brought

0:58:21 > 0:58:25forward his amendment, which allowed for Parliament to have the final say

0:58:25 > 0:58:30on the deal. So, we will continue to play those grown-up politics and to

0:58:30 > 0:58:34work as we have done in a consensual way with all parties across the

0:58:34 > 0:58:38house.Thank you, Lesley Laird. I hope the House of Commons is all

0:58:38 > 0:58:45right behind you, it is looking a bit...It is not as cold down here

0:58:45 > 0:58:50as it is in Scotland so I hope you are all wrapped up safe and warm.

0:58:50 > 0:58:54Now, even if you've been out of the country, you're unlikely

0:58:54 > 0:58:56to have missed the impact of the so-called

0:58:56 > 0:58:57beast from the east.

0:58:57 > 0:58:59Despite warnings, many people either chose or had no

0:58:59 > 0:59:00choice but to ignore them.

0:59:00 > 0:59:03It was particularly bad for drivers on the M80 near Stirling -

0:59:03 > 0:59:06some of whom were stuck for 15 hours and more.

0:59:06 > 0:59:08Local residents took action themselves to keep these unfortunate

0:59:08 > 0:59:09souls fed and watered.

0:59:09 > 0:59:11Drivers questioned the lack of official response, whilst

0:59:11 > 0:59:12the First Minister suggested non-essential HGV lorries

0:59:12 > 0:59:14were to blame for the delay.

0:59:14 > 0:59:20One of those motorists stuck on the M80, he is trying to get home to

0:59:20 > 0:59:24Plymouth and stuck just outside Stirling. Thank you very much for

0:59:24 > 0:59:30talking to us. How long have you been stuck?Since eight o'clock last

0:59:30 > 0:59:34night, about 15 hours now. Fortunately, the local people here

0:59:34 > 0:59:37have come down to the motorway to help us out, they were asking if

0:59:37 > 0:59:41everyone was all right and handing out blankets.Have you been given

0:59:41 > 0:59:45any indication about when you might be able to get moving?None at all,

0:59:45 > 0:59:52really. No, we have had very little information. I have seen police cars

0:59:52 > 0:59:59driving around New Year. But no one has stopped to talk to us.During a

0:59:59 > 1:00:03red weather warning, and HTV should not be on one of our trunk roads

1:00:03 > 1:00:11unless it is absolutely unavoidable and I saw some branded HGV tracks in

1:00:11 > 1:00:13pictures yesterday and given the branding on them, I would struggle

1:00:13 > 1:00:20to say they were unavoidable, so that the message that should go out

1:00:20 > 1:00:24strongly from this chamber to Xhosa use HGV lorries in weather

1:00:24 > 1:00:29conditions this.If we didn't have hauliers out there, we wouldn't have

1:00:29 > 1:00:33milk and bread and food and supermarkets and shops. So, to just

1:00:33 > 1:00:39generalise and say there were many hauliers not doing essential

1:00:39 > 1:00:45journeys is really not very helpful. We all know that every single

1:00:45 > 1:00:50morning the M80 is horrendous between 8am, so even I knew there

1:00:50 > 1:00:52would be a problem with that road in the Government should have looked at

1:00:52 > 1:00:56that earlier. 30 hours later we still have tracks on a major trunk

1:00:56 > 1:00:59road in Scotland and I think questions need to be asked as to why

1:00:59 > 1:01:02that was not cleared quicker.

1:01:02 > 1:01:07Transport Secretary Humza Yousaf joins me now from Dundee.

1:01:07 > 1:01:13You heard what that truck driver was saying. Ten years ago there was a

1:01:13 > 1:01:16heavy downfall of snow and hundreds of people were stuck overnight on

1:01:16 > 1:01:25the M80. Sorry, eight years ago. Eight years later, the same thing

1:01:25 > 1:01:31happens, hundreds of people stuck on the M80. Why is this happening?You

1:01:31 > 1:01:36are right, lessons need to be learned but this weather event was

1:01:36 > 1:01:40the first ever read warning for snow in Scotland, so it's not like we had

1:01:40 > 1:01:47a precedent. Clearly, lessons should be learned and must be but I would

1:01:47 > 1:01:53also like to say that for the incidents but did take place and

1:01:53 > 1:01:56those are deeply regrettable, of course there are many other parts of

1:01:56 > 1:02:00the trunk road network where advice was he didn't things moved as they

1:02:00 > 1:02:05should. There were some positives out of that but clearly lessons need

1:02:05 > 1:02:09to be learned.Again, at that truck driver said and I know from my own

1:02:09 > 1:02:14experience, you can drive in the rush-hour in that section of the M80

1:02:14 > 1:02:18on a sunny morning in the summer and there are problems. You have had

1:02:18 > 1:02:24plenty of warning this red alert was going to come. Why didn't you...

1:02:24 > 1:02:29Could you not have taken lorries off the road? If you had closed the M84

1:02:29 > 1:02:33for a few hours and let the snow ploughs into clear it, then it might

1:02:33 > 1:02:36have been in Kameni but would not have left people stranded for 18

1:02:36 > 1:02:41hours. Why was nothing done?Thank you for your expert advice but the

1:02:41 > 1:02:45fact of the matter was that there were dozens of snow ploughs on the

1:02:45 > 1:02:50M80 in the days before that and of course during the weather warning

1:02:50 > 1:02:54time, so there was grit out but if you would like to remind yourself of

1:02:54 > 1:02:59what happened on Wednesday, we had around 80 hours of continuous

1:02:59 > 1:03:03blizzard conditions, not easy for anybody to deal with. So, as much as

1:03:03 > 1:03:08I do respect your advice on this matter, snowploughs where out there.

1:03:08 > 1:03:12Let me make a second point which is really important. This is an

1:03:12 > 1:03:15operational matter for Police Scotland weather roads are closed or

1:03:15 > 1:03:19not. The point the First Minister was making, and I watched the

1:03:19 > 1:03:23cameras live for pretty much three-day strike in our control

1:03:23 > 1:03:26centre, there were clearly weather warnings issued around avoiding

1:03:26 > 1:03:32travel unless absolutely essential. I struggle to see why HGV lorries,

1:03:32 > 1:03:37from the branding anyway, carrying flatpack furniture, stationery,

1:03:37 > 1:03:41empty car transporters, how anybody can justify this as essential, yes,

1:03:41 > 1:03:45food, fuel, all of that makes sense, but certainly there was too much

1:03:45 > 1:03:49evidence for my eyes anyway, and hence why I have called with a

1:03:49 > 1:03:51meeting for the Road hauliers Association and the freight cars but

1:03:51 > 1:03:57Association.I am not trying to give expert advice, I am simply asking

1:03:57 > 1:04:00the question, could more not have been done? Did we know the specific

1:04:00 > 1:04:04section of the motoring is a problem and that there was plenty of warning

1:04:04 > 1:04:10of a red alert, is there nothing that could have been done other than

1:04:10 > 1:04:14later to blame truck drivers?Nobody has blamed truck drivers, the First

1:04:14 > 1:04:19Minister was asked the question I remember the opposition at FMQs and

1:04:19 > 1:04:22gave an answer. All I have said is that clearly there are lessons for

1:04:22 > 1:04:26all of us, including the Government and the police and we will have that

1:04:26 > 1:04:31proper

1:04:31 > 1:04:37proper debriefed. Clearly, there are sections of the motor ways where we

1:04:37 > 1:04:41will have to look at again and ask if we can do things differently. If

1:04:41 > 1:04:45people will not listen to the crisp and clear advice that was given and

1:04:45 > 1:04:50choose to travel or have no choice but to do so, then can we do

1:04:50 > 1:04:54something like restricting lanes particularly for HGV vehicle is?

1:04:54 > 1:04:59Clearly, we cannot do that for the whole trunk road network but where

1:04:59 > 1:05:02there are a pinch points, how do we reinforce it and what's legal powers

1:05:02 > 1:05:07to we have?

1:05:07 > 1:05:10Exactly same thing happened in exactly the same place eight years

1:05:10 > 1:05:14ago. You've heard it used to think of doing what you've just suggested

1:05:14 > 1:05:19you might do in the future. -- keypad eight years to think.No, we

1:05:19 > 1:05:27find no Mr Reid and traffic customs -- and traffic has managed to flow.

1:05:27 > 1:05:33To say that we could have led, there was never a red warning for snow

1:05:33 > 1:05:38before in this country. This is unprecedented in Scotland. Let's not

1:05:38 > 1:05:42be foolish about this. There is listen to be led and everything

1:05:42 > 1:05:51that. -- as lessons to be learnt.He suggested a special late for SGB --

1:05:51 > 1:05:55HGVs. Will there be a new policy about that particular motorway and

1:05:55 > 1:05:59perhaps others that will make sure that I accept that you can never

1:05:59 > 1:06:03make sure nothing happens but at least it would mean that we will be

1:06:03 > 1:06:09more prepared the next time.Yes, we are still in the middle of a yellow

1:06:09 > 1:06:13weather warning. A attention and focus is to get us through this

1:06:13 > 1:06:18period of weather warnings. -- my attention. They will be a debrief

1:06:18 > 1:06:22afterwards and part of the conversation will be with the RHA

1:06:22 > 1:06:28and the FTA, they will be part of the solution and come up with a

1:06:28 > 1:06:30common solution and understanding of how to avoid this from happening.

1:06:30 > 1:06:38For the majority of the John -- the trunk road network, HGVs and others

1:06:38 > 1:06:42passed through it without incident. And juries as to the force over

1:06:42 > 1:06:47travel warrants. You were asking people not to take to the roads. --

1:06:47 > 1:06:51and dubious as to the force of your travel warnings. What happens to

1:06:51 > 1:06:58people that did not turn up to work, could they be disciplined? They say

1:06:58 > 1:07:01that the reason they didn't go to work was because the transport

1:07:01 > 1:07:07minister told me they shouldn't get in the car and there was no public

1:07:07 > 1:07:11transport.I'd be extremely disappointed if employers chose to

1:07:11 > 1:07:15dock wages for somebody because they couldn't travel during the red

1:07:15 > 1:07:19warning. I've had a number of e-mails that have come from

1:07:19 > 1:07:23individuals, that will be part of the debrief.If I deem us from

1:07:23 > 1:07:27people saying what? That they are being disciplined? -- you fat

1:07:27 > 1:07:33e-mails from people saying what. They are saying that they've had

1:07:33 > 1:07:36their wages docked, etc. When the Government and police and other

1:07:36 > 1:07:40agencies come together to give crisp and clear advice, it is not for our

1:07:40 > 1:07:46own good it is for the safety of the travelling public.It is a bit like

1:07:46 > 1:07:49warning drivers, you can warn employers that it's not acceptable.

1:07:49 > 1:07:57Are you intending to do anything? Can you do anything. I don't know

1:07:57 > 1:08:01about the legal position. It will be part of the debrief after

1:08:01 > 1:08:05the yellow weather warning buses on Monday night. Talking to a employers

1:08:05 > 1:08:12and having that dialogue and looking at what we can do a spot of that

1:08:12 > 1:08:18discussion. -- the weather warning passes on Monday night.I presume

1:08:18 > 1:08:25that is not a picture of brandy that is life. -- Dundee that is life.

1:08:25 > 1:08:26Goodbye.

1:08:26 > 1:08:29It's time to look back on what's happened this week

1:08:29 > 1:08:30and what's coming up.

1:08:30 > 1:08:32With me now are Libby Brooks of the Guardian

1:08:32 > 1:08:34and Ramsay Jones, a former adviser to David Cameron

1:08:34 > 1:08:37and the Scottish Conservatives.

1:08:37 > 1:08:43Ruth Davidson wasn't prepared to commit to say that the British

1:08:43 > 1:08:45Government shouldn't put another referendum. It is clear that the

1:08:45 > 1:08:51British Government would.Number one, I don't think that one will be

1:08:51 > 1:08:54called, secondly, I think another Edinburgh agreement would be

1:08:54 > 1:08:59hard-fought and hard on this time, to be honest. It would be a replay

1:08:59 > 1:09:05of last time we are be careful what you wish for is the view taken by

1:09:05 > 1:09:11the UK Government back then when Alex Salmond unexpectedly won a

1:09:11 > 1:09:15majority and had the right. I think that the same thing would play out

1:09:15 > 1:09:21again. With the Edinburgh Agreement, if it replicated again, what with

1:09:21 > 1:09:25the conditions be?Would it be played out? The British Government

1:09:25 > 1:09:30have made it pretty clear that they will not have one. At least until

1:09:30 > 1:09:34the May general election.They have made it clear. There is at the

1:09:34 > 1:09:36question of whether this is something that Nicola Sturgeon

1:09:36 > 1:09:43herself once. She was speaking on another channel earlier today and

1:09:43 > 1:09:47she was talking about the fact that she was very concerned that we would

1:09:47 > 1:09:52reach the autumn without really any sort of clarity on what the Brexit

1:09:52 > 1:09:56deal means. -- Nicola Sturgeon herself wants. And she has been

1:09:56 > 1:10:02previously said that you would then have to make a decision on whether

1:10:02 > 1:10:06she wants a second referendum. And this was absent Mr.What would

1:10:06 > 1:10:11please the Scottish Government enormously would be to be blocked.

1:10:11 > 1:10:15Therefore, to go for an advisory one with no legal backing and great

1:10:15 > 1:10:29elliptical input. That is one the likely to win. --with Davidson pass

1:10:29 > 1:10:33policy on Brexit, is anything left of her baldness?She has remained

1:10:33 > 1:10:42fairly consistent and it is always been a difficult line from her. --

1:10:42 > 1:10:49boldness. She was talking earlier to you about pushing on fisheries. I'd

1:10:49 > 1:10:52like to know whether she has had conversations about population,

1:10:52 > 1:10:55which is something the Scottish Government is concerned about in

1:10:55 > 1:10:59terms of...This is the idea of having a different immigration

1:10:59 > 1:11:03policy for Scotland.It would be interesting to Rashford what the

1:11:03 > 1:11:09discussion would be in Aberdeen this week and -- to hear what the

1:11:09 > 1:11:13discussion would be in Aberdeen this week if the Conservative conference

1:11:13 > 1:11:20had gone ahead. Jacob Rees-Mogg's hard Brexit letter was signed by

1:11:20 > 1:11:26four Scottish MPs. I imagine that they would say that this is simply

1:11:26 > 1:11:32meaning that it is a broad church. Theresa May is not the only person

1:11:32 > 1:11:36who has a variety of views and her party. I would argue that one of the

1:11:36 > 1:11:41things she's been very good at has been to encourage voters that would

1:11:41 > 1:11:46not normally vote for Conservative devote her party shown that she is

1:11:46 > 1:11:53hurting different flavour of party did answer. -- for the Conservative

1:11:53 > 1:11:57to vote for her party that she is heading a different flavour of

1:11:57 > 1:12:01party.Everybody is looking for somebody else to blame. One of the

1:12:01 > 1:12:07things that has restricted me over the last five days, maybe just me

1:12:07 > 1:12:11harking back to my youth when we just got onto it, everybody was to

1:12:11 > 1:12:16blame somebody else. We just want to have our cake and eat it, we want to

1:12:16 > 1:12:22get to the shops... People panic buying. We create this ourselves

1:12:22 > 1:12:30sometimes.But if we drive RPM -- if we drive up the M80, there are HGVs

1:12:30 > 1:12:34in front of you, there's nothing you can do.If the road is open and you

1:12:34 > 1:12:41are a whole year, then you have reasonable expectation to expect you

1:12:41 > 1:12:46can go. There are sometimes pressure to get through even if your goods

1:12:46 > 1:12:49are not essential.It's essential to think that sometimes things just

1:12:49 > 1:13:00have to stop.Right, everything?In terms of HGVs, they are essential to

1:13:00 > 1:13:04our transport infrastructure and they are difficult to drive in snow,

1:13:04 > 1:13:08so perhaps we need clearer guidance...It's interesting that

1:13:08 > 1:13:13Humza Yousaf says that he has been contacted by people who have been

1:13:13 > 1:13:18disciplined or threatened by employers because they have followed

1:13:18 > 1:13:23the Government's advice.I wonder if we have to look at clearer insurers

1:13:23 > 1:13:28guidelines as well. That was of the problems with HGVs, that may employ

1:13:28 > 1:13:34their employers as well. -- that was one of the problems.Some of these

1:13:34 > 1:13:37people on this debris contracts... Regardless of the contract, if any

1:13:37 > 1:13:41employer is not looking after the health and well-being of employees,

1:13:41 > 1:13:46then shame on them. Name and shame them.-- on these temporary

1:13:46 > 1:13:47contracts.

1:13:47 > 1:13:51That's all from the us this week - I'm back at the same time next week.

1:13:51 > 1:13:58Until then, goodbye.