:01:33. > :01:43.government plans to protect marine wildlife risking putting the
:01:43. > :01:43.
:01:43. > :38:44.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2221 seconds
:38:44. > :38:48.fisherman of Hythe Bay out of Sunday Politics in the South East.
:38:49. > :38:51.Coming up later: Do we get the politicians we deserve? There are
:38:51. > :38:54.question marks about the way political parties choose their
:38:54. > :38:57.candidates to become MPs and concerns have been raised about the
:38:57. > :39:01.Unite union's backing for Labour candidates, including two in Sussex.
:39:01. > :39:04.So should ordinary voters get a bigger say? Well, joining me in the
:39:04. > :39:06.studio today to discuss this and other topics is the Labour
:39:06. > :39:11.parliamentary Candidate for Gillingham and Rainham, Paul Clark,
:39:11. > :39:16.and the Conservative South East MEP Daniel Hannan. First, this weekend
:39:16. > :39:19.sees the opening of a new food bank in Shoreham. Charities say more
:39:19. > :39:23.people in the area are struggling to feed their families and are
:39:23. > :39:25.currently having to travel to a food bank in Worthing. Earlier this week,
:39:25. > :39:27.the Archbishop of Canterbury defended the Church's involvement in
:39:27. > :39:36.food banks after a conservative minister suggested more people were
:39:36. > :39:40.using food banks simply because they could. Daniel Hannan, the fact
:39:40. > :39:50.there's a food bank now being opened in Shoreham, is that a sign that
:39:50. > :39:54.coalition policies are failing people here in the South East?
:39:54. > :40:00.the use of food banks went up ten times over the last government, so
:40:00. > :40:06.no. You can't possibly draw that from that. Food banks did not exist
:40:06. > :40:10.until just over a decade ago. The reason that use has increased its
:40:10. > :40:13.because people are now referred by job centres to food banks directly,
:40:13. > :40:18.which has been a long-standing demand of the charity that set them
:40:18. > :40:22.up in the first place and who are delighted that this is now happened.
:40:22. > :40:26.There is a real issue of getting the balance right. It is an important
:40:26. > :40:30.part of the coalition policy that working should always pay. You
:40:30. > :40:36.shouldn't be better off on benefits than you are in work, and that
:40:36. > :40:39.involves making some difficult choices. You mentioned the trust are
:40:39. > :40:43.delighted that these referrals are coming in, but they say there is a
:40:43. > :40:47.clear link between benefit delays or changes to benefits and the fact
:40:47. > :40:53.that the number of people relying on food banks has gone up. Benefit
:40:53. > :40:57.delays are falling. No system is perfect, but the time taken is down
:40:57. > :41:02.and the number of cases processed immediately is a higher percentage,
:41:02. > :41:10.but the real issue is, are we being fair to those who are paying their
:41:11. > :41:15.taxes and striving and then find that they are taking home less? Of
:41:15. > :41:19.hope for would agree with me on this. You have got to get the
:41:19. > :41:25.balance right, but clearly the trust is not happy that they have seen
:41:25. > :41:31.152,000 people in the last three months which is three times the
:41:31. > :41:34.level in 2012. The minister is not living in the real world of the
:41:34. > :41:39.things it is just because people go along because they can get free
:41:39. > :41:42.food. The Archbishop Canterbury did make the point that a lot of this
:41:42. > :41:46.was about the failure in delivery, it wasn't because people were being
:41:46. > :41:55.denied an offence, it was because there was a problem in the system
:41:55. > :42:01.perhaps. But the trust report says that 20%, it actually is because of
:42:01. > :42:05.direct benefit changes, changes to the invalidity benefit... But those
:42:05. > :42:13.changes have only coming very recently since April. Before that,
:42:13. > :42:17.we did see an increase, so it does suggest... And ten years before
:42:17. > :42:20.that. What this is showing us, as far as the coalition government is
:42:20. > :42:27.concerned, they think this is working because there are more
:42:27. > :42:34.people now that do need to come and get food vouchers. I have to tell
:42:34. > :42:37.you, where we were doing two or three a week, we are now giving
:42:37. > :42:47.vouchers to three a day. That is not because we want to give them away,
:42:47. > :42:48.
:42:49. > :42:51.it is because people need them. from Daniel Hannan and Paul Clark
:42:51. > :42:54.later, but now, as campaign slogans go, "Save The Green-tongued Spoon
:42:55. > :42:57.Worm of Hythe Bay" isn't the most well known, but the new Marine
:42:57. > :43:01.Conservation Zones planned by the government are designed to do just
:43:01. > :43:04.that. Hythe Bay is one of five zones proposed in the South East and due
:43:04. > :43:06.to come into operation later this year. But local fisherman are
:43:06. > :43:08.furious that their traditional fishing waters could become
:43:08. > :43:18.off-limits, damaging their livelihoods. They say the government
:43:18. > :43:27.
:43:27. > :43:34.have been taken in hook, line and neighbours the green tunnels C worm
:43:34. > :43:38.and the sea mouse -- green-tongued worm. They live on the soft bed here
:43:38. > :43:43.in Hythe Bay. The covenanters browsing to create a Marine
:43:43. > :43:51.conservation zone here to protect them, but that fishermen from highs,
:43:51. > :43:57.and other places nearby who rely on the basis that could put them out of
:43:57. > :44:04.business. It is who we are. It is in the blood. I don't want to be the
:44:04. > :44:08.last in the line of the family here. It would be devastating to a lot of
:44:08. > :44:12.livelihoods. Completely unnecessary, that is the worst thing
:44:12. > :44:20.about it. There's no evidence to prove that fishing harming the green
:44:20. > :44:26.tongues prune worm. But fishermen say the population of spoon worms is
:44:26. > :44:31.on the increase. The fishermen 's MP has raised the issue in Parliament.
:44:31. > :44:40.Now he has secured a visit from the fisheries minister, Richard Benyon,
:44:40. > :44:43.next week. The fishermen have an interest to sustain them. The marine
:44:43. > :44:47.life, both living in the sand and also on the seabed, has been
:44:47. > :44:52.preserved as well. Fishermen also recommended other areas where more
:44:52. > :44:55.conservation provision could be introduced and wouldn't affect the
:44:55. > :44:58.current fishing. The fishermen themselves understand why
:44:58. > :45:06.conservation zones might be necessary, they are just challenging
:45:06. > :45:09.why Hythe Bay is included. This area could become the new Hythe Bay
:45:09. > :45:17.compensate -- conservation zone. What is key is what status the
:45:17. > :45:21.government gives it. The seabed will be closely monitored. But if it is a
:45:21. > :45:24.so-called recovery zone, controls will be much tighter to protect the
:45:24. > :45:29.marine life living on the seabed will stop that could mean a total
:45:29. > :45:33.ban on fishing here. This family does 90% of their fishing in what
:45:34. > :45:40.could become the zone. They say they would be forced to sell their boat
:45:40. > :45:42.and fish shop and wouldn't be able to supply local restaurants. Terry
:45:42. > :45:46.thinks ministers and conservationists misunderstand local
:45:46. > :45:56.fishing methods. They are under the impression that the trawling done in
:45:56. > :45:57.
:45:57. > :46:02.that area is using big heavy trawls seen on TV by millions of people.
:46:02. > :46:08.But it is not anything like that at all. The area we fish, the tools
:46:08. > :46:12.used in that area are really light and just skim over the top. Anything
:46:12. > :46:17.living there is not harmed. The mud gets washed away in the storms and
:46:17. > :46:21.it comes back and the fish is in abundance every year. The fishermen
:46:22. > :46:28.have done no harm whatsoever. We look after it ourselves, it is our
:46:28. > :46:31.future. These fishing boats to the British High Court victory over
:46:31. > :46:36.industrial scale trawlers this week as the government ruled fishing
:46:36. > :46:39.quotas could be redistributed in favour of smaller vessels. But
:46:39. > :46:44.fishermen say this new threat could be even more harmful to their
:46:44. > :46:49.industry and communities. Hythe Bay is known locally as the million
:46:49. > :46:53.pound Bay, so an estimation of just �3000 on the annual value of fishing
:46:53. > :47:03.here has been laughed out of the water. You could look dashing could
:47:03. > :47:04.
:47:04. > :47:09.put a lot more zeros on the end of that. Every fishermen down there,
:47:09. > :47:13.there's fishmongers, restaurants, but more so tourism. A lot of people
:47:13. > :47:19.come down to the beach to look at the boats. It is a big tourist
:47:19. > :47:22.attraction. To lose them would be a major upset. The government is due
:47:22. > :47:27.to announce his decision in September, but when the minister
:47:27. > :47:29.visits on Wednesday, can he convince the fishermen is interested in
:47:29. > :47:36.conserving their future as well as that of the creatures who share the
:47:36. > :47:44.sea below's this has left a very bad taste in our mouth. We feel that we
:47:45. > :47:54.have been hijacked. It is not fair. So has the government been fair to
:47:54. > :48:02.fishermen? Lucinda caught up with Richard Benyon. They have been very
:48:03. > :48:06.vocal and very correct in the way they have lobbied. We have a
:48:06. > :48:13.consultation which is ended and we are examining all the 40,000
:48:13. > :48:20.responses we have had. We will make a decision in the autumn. The point
:48:20. > :48:25.is that we are able to consider not just the environmental factors but
:48:25. > :48:31.also the activities like fishing and make sure that we're trying to get
:48:31. > :48:38.the balance right. It is all down to not just what we say in terms of the
:48:38. > :48:43.lines on the map, but how we manage that Marine conservation zone which
:48:43. > :48:46.will mean whether they are able to continue making a living or if we
:48:46. > :48:50.will impact on their lives. That is the message I absolutely get other
:48:50. > :48:56.want to make sure we're getting it right for them and the environment.
:48:56. > :48:58.D-Link they think they are listened to? If it does come in, it is a
:48:58. > :49:02.permanent change. They tell me they don't feel like they have been
:49:02. > :49:10.consulted. In a macro that is one of the problems we have had. 127 sites
:49:10. > :49:15.coming forward, if they're going to stop people doing things in the
:49:15. > :49:19.seas, we have got to have a really good idea about what is there and
:49:19. > :49:22.some really good scientific evidence. Frankly, there wasn't the
:49:22. > :49:26.scientific evidence to back up a lot of the 127 sites that were brought
:49:26. > :49:32.forward. So we had to go and find it. I'm absolutely determined that
:49:32. > :49:36.we are fair that if there are absolutely vital valuable seabed
:49:36. > :49:43.features that are being destroyed by certain activities, we have got to
:49:43. > :49:47.protect them. That is part of our natural heritage, it is part of our
:49:47. > :49:50.duty and society wants that. But if we can live together, and there are
:49:50. > :49:55.so many activities which are not harmful to the environment, fishing
:49:55. > :49:58.activities that are not harmful, they should be allowed to continue,
:49:58. > :50:03.and so it is a question of making sure we have got the right evidence,
:50:03. > :50:08.making sure we are proportionate in how we do the management plans and I
:50:08. > :50:11.hope we can find a solution that means everyone will be happy.
:50:11. > :50:18.Well, I certainly know they question the science they think they hope to
:50:18. > :50:21.show you some of their evidence on Wednesday. You will understand
:50:22. > :50:27.people say I listen to much to fishermen, and fishermen say listen
:50:27. > :50:32.to much the scientists. It is a balance. But fishermen say that that
:50:32. > :50:41.will be their business gone. What they do happens? That presupposes
:50:41. > :50:44.that it will happen. Lester C. This could be designated and given the
:50:44. > :50:53.status, conservation objectives that allows them to continue their
:50:53. > :50:56.business. I hope that is the case. -- let just see. There is only
:50:56. > :50:59.fishermen over posts over the last three decades who have gone out of
:50:59. > :51:03.business for a variety of reasons because they haven't been enough
:51:03. > :51:07.fish them to catch. The system of managing their fisheries has been so
:51:08. > :51:13.wrong. We are gradually turning that around and trying to make sure that
:51:13. > :51:17.we have sensible management of our fisheries and then people can move
:51:17. > :51:25.what they do in certain areas, there are some highly mobile fleets that
:51:25. > :51:30.will be catching fish of one post one day and another the next. I
:51:30. > :51:35.recognise the fact that local fishermen like the ones at Hythe Bay
:51:35. > :51:38.are inshore fishermen, they have a knowledge of those waters that go
:51:38. > :51:42.back generations. These are not people who can suddenly upped sticks
:51:42. > :51:49.and go to another part of the will stop I want to make sure that we're
:51:49. > :51:52.working with them -- go to another part of the sea. I want to make sure
:51:52. > :51:55.we're working with them and I'm not be judging any decision we are about
:51:55. > :52:02.to make but I do have a very strong affinity for local fishing
:52:02. > :52:09.communities. Sure they will have a lot to show you on Wednesday. Thank
:52:09. > :52:18.you very much. Daniel Hannan it doesn't sound like anyone is
:52:18. > :52:22.particularly happy with this. Is it a fudge from the Minister? He is a
:52:22. > :52:27.decent guy and he is playing a bad hand as well as he can. The reason
:52:27. > :52:31.it is a bad hand is because the deck has been stacked against every UK
:52:31. > :52:38.fisheries Minister since Edward Heath gave away the richest renewal
:52:38. > :52:43.rate area around our coast. How can you defend a skipper in the
:52:44. > :52:50.south-east of England to tie up his boat when he knows that there are
:52:50. > :52:55.foreign vessels plundering the same waters. Conservation has to depend
:52:55. > :53:01.on ownership to have got an incentive on preserving stocks.
:53:01. > :53:11.one of these zones could be in the Medway S three, would you support
:53:11. > :53:11.
:53:11. > :53:17.that -- estuary? It is right with the minister says in terms of
:53:17. > :53:22.getting the balance right, but if you're going to end up, and if the
:53:22. > :53:28.scientific evidence says that there should be a zone, then he will have
:53:28. > :53:34.to make that decision. But at the same time you have to recognise that
:53:34. > :53:39.there are families at the end of this who are affected, and therefore
:53:39. > :53:44.the government would need to put in place popper supports to help those
:53:44. > :53:49.families relocate or find other ways forward. I do say that this week we
:53:49. > :53:52.have seen the decision from the High Court for the fisheries industry
:53:52. > :54:02.which is welcome now that they can have some of those spare quotas
:54:02. > :54:08.
:54:08. > :54:11.allocated to small fisheries rather than large. Questions were raised
:54:11. > :54:14.this week over the Unite Union's involvement in two Labour selections
:54:14. > :54:17.in Brighton and Hove. It comes as the Conservative Party sends out
:54:17. > :54:19.ballot papers for their European election candidates, with the Leader
:54:19. > :54:22.of the Conservative Group in the European Parliament and South East
:54:22. > :54:25.MEP Richard Ashworth failing to win automatic re-selection. So how
:54:25. > :54:27.democratic are the two main parties when it comes to selecting their
:54:27. > :54:31.candidates? Paul Clark, Labour have been in the headlines over this. It
:54:31. > :54:39.is a huge issue for Labour with the backing of the unions being such a
:54:39. > :54:42.big popper for them but now it has come to, how do you think Ed
:54:42. > :54:49.Miliband can prove to people that he is taking control of this and that
:54:49. > :54:53.places like Brighton where it is suggested that it could've happened,
:54:53. > :54:57.but it could have been? He needs to continue to do the work it started
:54:57. > :55:03.when became leader where he said about opening up the party,
:55:03. > :55:06.engagement with communities about the formulation of ideas, policies
:55:06. > :55:13.and meeting the aspirations of people across the length and breadth
:55:13. > :55:22.of the country. That is why we had re-founding Labour and that has
:55:22. > :55:26.opened up the party in various ways. That is what he has started,
:55:26. > :55:31.and then of course this week we have seen his announcement in terms of
:55:31. > :55:36.wanting to actually make sure that individual trade union members make
:55:36. > :55:43.a decision as to what parties they want that money to go to, and in
:55:43. > :55:48.addition, he had said about primary selection for certainly the
:55:49. > :55:52.elections in 2016 in London and then looking at constituency parties.
:55:52. > :55:58.seem pretty sure it didn't happen in Brighton, but have you checked the
:55:58. > :56:08.party list? Bretigny-sur-Orge let me say to this. We have nothing to fear
:56:08. > :56:18.because I can tell you, 20 years ago, on the floor of the party --
:56:18. > :56:20.
:56:20. > :56:24.let me say this. Have nothing to fear. Something that happened in
:56:24. > :56:34.Falkirk, it has been referred to the police in the right way. The reason
:56:34. > :56:34.
:56:34. > :56:38.I say Brighton has been kept out... It is my home constituency, I don't
:56:39. > :56:47.know if you are on Twitter, but I remember the delighted tweet saying
:56:48. > :56:53.congratulations to Nancy that the Unite candidate. Is said Brighton
:56:53. > :56:56.and Kent town and Hove weather to that were being... The spotlight
:56:56. > :57:01.very much on Labour at the moment and their links with the unions, but
:57:01. > :57:04.went comes the Conservatives, people shocked that they didn't make the
:57:04. > :57:14.top of the list. Someone was saying it was because they were too much of
:57:14. > :57:18.
:57:18. > :57:22.a Europhile. As a transparent way to select candidates? -- is it? They
:57:22. > :57:25.don't change hands from one party to another. The MPs in those seats,
:57:25. > :57:29.they are only going to lose their jobs if they lose the right to wear
:57:29. > :57:33.the red or blue rosette on polling day. Whenever there is a conflict
:57:33. > :57:37.between what local people want and what their whips want, irrational is
:57:37. > :57:40.that MPs and the overseas is to go with what their whips want. The
:57:40. > :57:43.great thing about primaries say abolish safe seats. They allow
:57:43. > :57:53.everybody to have a say in who should be the label conservative or
:57:53. > :58:02.
:58:02. > :58:07.Lib Dem candidate. They haven't way around the cost is that when
:58:08. > :58:12.there is an election happening anywhere, you should give any party
:58:12. > :58:17.or any group of citizens the right to piggyback that collection and
:58:17. > :58:22.require the retaining officer... say it would get rid of safe seats
:58:22. > :58:27.and we have a lot of safe seats in Kent. Which ones do you think we
:58:28. > :58:30.might see getting kicked out if we had open primaries? Xxx an MP who
:58:30. > :58:40.gets a reputation for voting with his party rather than what his
:58:40. > :58:45.
:58:45. > :58:51.constituents want... If there is an MP who is corrupt or useless or
:58:51. > :59:01.consistently facing the wrong way... We have run out of time but
:59:01. > :59:06.
:59:06. > :59:10.we have got time for a round-up of is very concerned by video footage
:59:10. > :59:13.appearing to show Sussex officers catering and kicking a suspected
:59:13. > :59:18.shoplifter to the ground. An investigation has been launched.
:59:18. > :59:25.Sussex police say the action was necessary to safely arrest the man.
:59:25. > :59:30.Will become more common in the UK. The green councils strikes back.
:59:30. > :59:36.Following a decline in the city's recycling rates, giant communal
:59:36. > :59:40.recycling bins will be laid out. With a 10% cut to its budget, Kent
:59:40. > :59:45.County Council has announced this week that it needs to save a further
:59:45. > :59:54.�239 million by 2018. It is hit central government witty hard over
:59:54. > :00:04.the last few years. And finally, the Archbishop of Canterbury is handing
:00:04. > :00:08.
:00:08. > :00:13.it... That hope the bank takes criticism better than the king did.
:00:13. > :00:19.Applecart, we heard the Archbishop of Canterbury talking about
:00:20. > :00:27.quantitive easing. He seems like a very outspoken leader of the church?
:00:27. > :00:33.He has the right position to be able to contribute to greater to
:00:33. > :00:37.democracy, and he does see through the church organisations what is
:00:37. > :00:42.really happening on the ground. So when he spoke out about food banks
:00:42. > :00:47.earlier on, is because he knows from what is happening on the streets.
:00:47. > :00:55.How do you think politicians react to someone of his stature speaking
:00:55. > :01:00.in that way? Here speaking as a private citizen. It is at Regis. It
:01:00. > :01:06.hits people who are dependent on a fixed income. It has been an
:01:06. > :01:13.absolutely scandalous thing by which wealth is removed from the poor and