:01:36. > :01:46.And in the south-east, angry farmers demand new laws to fight
:01:46. > :01:46.
:01:46. > :31:13.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1767 seconds
:31:13. > :31:19.the fly-tippers who keep on dumping Welcome to the Sunday Politics in
:31:19. > :31:23.the south-east. Coming up. Living on the breadline. The towns where
:31:23. > :31:28.child poverty is more than twice the national average. But first let
:31:28. > :31:31.me introduce you to our guests of the day, the MP for Rochester Mark
:31:31. > :31:35.Reckless and laider of Hastings Borough Council John Terry, they
:31:35. > :31:38.will be here for the next 20 minutes with their views on the
:31:38. > :31:42.most talked about events in the region. Let us start with the most
:31:42. > :31:48.explosive story of the weeks. Plans for a massive hub airport in north
:31:48. > :31:52.Kent. They will be included in a Government consultation on airport
:31:52. > :31:56.expansion. We know that Boris Johnson is passionately in favour.
:31:56. > :32:02.Mark Reckless, is there any that could persuade you this is a good
:32:02. > :32:06.idea? No, it is a bad idea. Boris seems to think the peninsula is in
:32:06. > :32:12.London. A new airport will be more expensive than expanding an
:32:12. > :32:17.existing one. It would add between �50 and �80 every plane ticket.
:32:17. > :32:22.Boris doesn't have any answers to the most basic of questions. How is
:32:23. > :32:26.he going to persuade airlines to move there. It would be devastating
:32:26. > :32:30.for environment. I don't think it is realistic or sensible. Every
:32:30. > :32:34.time we talk about this on radio Kent we get more people saying they
:32:34. > :32:38.like the sound of it. I think it's to do with jobs. Jeremy you would
:32:38. > :32:42.like to have more jobs in your region. If somebody was offering to
:32:42. > :32:50.put this in your backyard what would you be saying. It would be
:32:50. > :32:53.hypothetical having an airport of that size anywhere near Hastings.
:32:53. > :32:56.You would have to consider it wouldn't you. You would have to
:32:56. > :32:59.weigh it up against the environmental impact, where ever it
:32:59. > :33:02.is going to be. I think the Government has got itself in a
:33:03. > :33:08.difficult position. It didn't want to expand Heathrow and now looking
:33:08. > :33:13.at Boris island there is the potential to expand Gatwick, which
:33:14. > :33:17.is reasonably linked to hastesings, I think we should look at the
:33:18. > :33:21.existing airports and the potential there. When you were last in you
:33:21. > :33:27.were talking about this idea to encourage people to get on the
:33:27. > :33:32.housing lad e you would help them with their deposit what is the
:33:32. > :33:37.latest. There has been a huge amount of interest. My worry is we
:33:37. > :33:41.will be oversubscribed with the people who would like it. We now
:33:41. > :33:46.that Kent County Council is loosely considering the idea, do you think
:33:46. > :33:49.it's a good idea? The Government has aimed at the new build market.
:33:49. > :33:55.In Medway we are keen to see generation and kick-start the
:33:55. > :33:59.economy. If the Government through giving the support to mortgages can
:33:59. > :34:04.help it that is something we would strongly support. Stay with us
:34:04. > :34:09.because we have our big story. Imagine waking up to find someone's
:34:09. > :34:13.dump their rubbish in your garden overnight. After you spend cash
:34:13. > :34:18.getting rid of it someone else comes along and it happens again.
:34:18. > :34:28.It is something farmers find themselves in with illegal fly-
:34:28. > :34:32.tipping I seem there's is very little they can do about it. This
:34:32. > :34:42.farm in Kent looks every inch the classic rural picture. Until you
:34:42. > :34:45.
:34:45. > :34:48.see this. We have various thing, kitchen unit, plastic bags, hard
:34:48. > :34:51.board. Local Authorities and the Environment Agency deal with fly-
:34:51. > :34:55.tipling on public land. But when it comes to private land, like the
:34:55. > :35:00.many farms spread across the south- east, the responsibility falls to
:35:00. > :35:04.the land owners. And here it is their worst incident yet.
:35:04. > :35:09.probably require a ten, 12 cubic yard skip for that. That is
:35:09. > :35:16.probably going to cost you over �200 to hire. It will cost us two
:35:16. > :35:20.men half a day's work, so we get up to �300, �400 just to deal with
:35:20. > :35:24.this without any help from the council or local environmental
:35:24. > :35:28.bodies and that is a costing we have to take onboard. And there
:35:28. > :35:35.have been three flys into this in the last three months. In the last
:35:35. > :35:41.month. On this site alone we are looking at over seven, 800 pounds.
:35:41. > :35:45.How do you feel about that Aggrieved. Mark isn't alone. Last
:35:45. > :35:49.year the National Farmers' Union set up a hotline to complain about
:35:49. > :35:55.fly-tipping and one region stands out. The problem mainly occurs in
:35:55. > :35:58.the south-east. The figures show that roughly 30% of the fly-tipping
:35:58. > :36:02.incidents reported were in the south-east. We can only assume that
:36:03. > :36:06.is because of the population of London, and the spreading of waste
:36:07. > :36:12.out from that major centre of population. Farmers could be set to
:36:12. > :36:17.suffer much more of this. The Government's farming department
:36:17. > :36:20.DEFRA reported that fly-tipping on public land has decreased slightly.
:36:20. > :36:25.Thought to be as an increase in enforcement action. There is
:36:25. > :36:30.concern that the crackdown on fly- tipping on public land seems to
:36:30. > :36:35.have led to an increase in fly- tipping on private land. Offenders
:36:35. > :36:38.are less likely to get prosecuted as opposed to public areas where
:36:38. > :36:44.councils have power to detect and prosecute. Although fly-tipping,
:36:44. > :36:47.where ever it happens is a crime, councils have staff and covert
:36:47. > :36:50.cameras to investigate. Private land owners can't do this, so they
:36:50. > :36:55.think the Government should help them get rid of the waste that has
:36:55. > :37:01.been tipped on their land We would like DEFRA first of all, to allow
:37:01. > :37:05.land owners to tip fly-tipped waste without being charged for it. If
:37:05. > :37:10.they have waist tipped on their land such as here, they have to
:37:10. > :37:14.take it to the tip. They have to deal with it as nay see fit and in
:37:14. > :37:17.the current circumstances they will get charged which seems unfair.
:37:17. > :37:21.Most land we walk through is private land. To see rubbish like
:37:21. > :37:26.this dumped, it is depressing and it is a crime. The problem on
:37:26. > :37:29.public land isn't to be discounted. If someone illegally tips rubbish
:37:29. > :37:34.there every 21 minutes there in the south-east. We have spoken to local
:37:34. > :37:38.councils and it is costing many of them over �100,000 each every year.
:37:38. > :37:42.But it is fly-tipping on private land that some would like the
:37:42. > :37:49.Government to turn their attention to. I would like to say to DEFRA
:37:49. > :37:51.farmers are suffering already from low prices and high costss they can
:37:51. > :37:55.inafford to spend money on unnecessary things. This is a
:37:55. > :37:59.criminal offence. Farmers are sick of paying for it and I would say do
:37:59. > :38:03.something to help them. Farming is a crucial part of the rural economy.
:38:03. > :38:09.But it is also struggling. Is it fair that farmers have to pick up
:38:09. > :38:12.the fly-tipped waste? Along with the bill, for disposing of it?
:38:12. > :38:17.Joining us from Hastings is Amber Rudd who is on the DEFRA Select
:38:17. > :38:20.Committee. Nice to have you with us. Let us start with the question
:38:20. > :38:24.attend of the report. Is it fair that farmers foot the bill when
:38:24. > :38:28.they are victims? It is their land so when a crime is commit on their
:38:28. > :38:32.land they are stuck with it. But in my conversations with farmers
:38:32. > :38:38.locally, they have told me that depends very much on the council. I
:38:38. > :38:41.mean I have been told some councils have done a good job with working
:38:41. > :38:46.with farmers to make sure it is removed in a economical way. I take
:38:46. > :38:49.the point as we crackdown, as we should, on the environmental crime
:38:49. > :38:54.of fly-tipping on land generally, particularly public land, we have
:38:54. > :38:59.to be careful it doesn't pop up in private land. What about hazardous
:38:59. > :39:02.waste? That is very expensive and dangerous to get rid of. It is not
:39:02. > :39:07.unreasonable they get help with the cost, if they have to take it to a
:39:07. > :39:10.tip. They have to pay for it. Environment Agency will take
:39:10. > :39:14.hazardous waste, but what they generally object to, is the fact
:39:14. > :39:17.that just people get used to dumping waste in certain parts of
:39:17. > :39:22.private land and that needs to stop. It is a crime, like any other. And
:39:22. > :39:26.where it gets out of hand we need to have help clamping down on it.
:39:26. > :39:30.It is our countryside isn't it. A lot of the private land we have
:39:30. > :39:34.access to, we use it. It seems sad. Why do you think it happens on
:39:34. > :39:37.private land? I think people who are go going to do the fly-tipping
:39:37. > :39:40.we have seen haven't thought it through. They haven't thought
:39:40. > :39:45.through what you say, this Sunderland we like to walk there,
:39:45. > :39:49.that is our land to enjoy. Maybe we should have a public awareness
:39:49. > :39:54.campaign, like the awareness campaign we have been having in
:39:54. > :39:57.Hastings on dog fouling, that has been successful. What we should
:39:57. > :40:03.look at is having a campaign to make people understand what they
:40:03. > :40:06.are doing is a crime and it is antisocial and unnecessary. Mark
:40:06. > :40:11.Reckless would you wanted any help, would you want a change in the law
:40:11. > :40:16.so this was an area where farmerers didn't have to foot the bill?
:40:16. > :40:20.we did in Medway to discourage householders doing this, we
:40:20. > :40:24.restored free collection of bulky refuse, most of what we see like
:40:24. > :40:28.this, it is commercial operator, people who are doing this as a
:40:28. > :40:31.business, taking away, getting paid and dumping commercial waste. What
:40:31. > :40:35.we really need is for the magistrates to take a very strong
:40:35. > :40:40.line on this, when there is a prosecution, when the police do the
:40:40. > :40:45.work, it is really important the courts send down really tough
:40:45. > :40:50.sentences, to discourage this. Jeremy. From the perspective of a
:40:50. > :40:54.Local Authority is there any money in the cough fers to help them?
:40:54. > :40:58.an urban authority we are not faced with the same situation and we
:40:58. > :41:04.clampdown ourselves on fly-tipping. The problem is finding out who is
:41:04. > :41:07.responsible. Mark is right, what you showed, that wasn't an ordinary
:41:07. > :41:11.householder putting a black bag on the wrong day, that was a business,
:41:11. > :41:16.that business is committing an offence, the person who is shifting
:41:16. > :41:20.it is committing an offence. Let us go back to Amber Rudd for a moment.
:41:20. > :41:23.When you think about the material that was dumped there, there has to
:41:23. > :41:28.be evidence in there. Surely it should be possible to find out who
:41:28. > :41:31.is responsible. Agree. In that case I would hope they would involve the
:41:31. > :41:35.police and clampdown and find somebody who did this. That is the
:41:35. > :41:40.way to top stop it, make sure these actions have consequence, as Mark
:41:40. > :41:44.said we need to make sure that the magistrates are tough. We need to
:41:44. > :41:48.send a clear signal this isn't a acceptable form of behaviour. We
:41:48. > :41:52.need to make sure people know it is a crime and it will have
:41:53. > :41:56.consequences. The next story is relevant for Amber Rudd as well.
:41:56. > :41:59.When people talk about poverty they probably don't think it's a big
:41:59. > :42:03.problem in the south-east. They would be wrong. Some parts of Kent
:42:03. > :42:06.Sussex and Surrey have a growing number of poor children. According
:42:06. > :42:12.to the latest figures Hastings has more than twice the national rate
:42:12. > :42:16.of child poverty and it is not just pockets of deprivation. The vast
:42:16. > :42:20.majority of wards suffer greater child poverty han the national
:42:20. > :42:24.average. Nearly half the children in Central St Leonards are
:42:24. > :42:29.officially poor. In Kent Thanet has the biggest problem. Child poverty
:42:29. > :42:33.rates are higher than the national average and the worst yair is
:42:33. > :42:37.Newington. Nearly half the children come from poor families. Will
:42:37. > :42:41.things improve? Not according to the Institute for Fiscal Studies.
:42:41. > :42:46.It says child poverty will get worse not better, especially as the
:42:46. > :42:50.coalition Government's austerity plans bite. You remember the ward
:42:50. > :42:55.with the worst child poverty in the whole of the south. What does
:42:55. > :42:59.poverty look like? It is ward with great potential and huge benefits
:42:59. > :43:03.and opportunities there as well. What does it look like? It looks
:43:03. > :43:06.like overcrowded flats, it look like poor quality accommodation, it
:43:06. > :43:09.looks like children who are on the street because they haven't got
:43:09. > :43:13.adequate opportunities in their home, it is children who haven't
:43:13. > :43:17.got access to computers, they are at school with their peer, who have
:43:17. > :43:21.access to a computer at home, which they can use for educational
:43:21. > :43:25.purposes and leisure purposes, these youngsters don't have any of
:43:25. > :43:27.those opportunities. Perhaps they come from a home where over
:43:27. > :43:32.generations there has been unemployment and a lack of drive
:43:32. > :43:36.and ambition. We will talk about aspiration in a moment. I want to
:43:36. > :43:40.talk to Amber Rudd. What is going to improve the lives for these
:43:40. > :43:45.families and children? It is a combination of education, and work.
:43:45. > :43:49.On education, I am pleased to say that Hastings is getting 1.5
:43:49. > :43:55.million pound this year on the pupil premium to help children, 2.5
:43:55. > :44:02.million next year. We have two new academies being built. Hold on a
:44:02. > :44:05.second. On education those two new academies were the last of the old
:44:05. > :44:09.Labour academies. In fact where Michael Gove became Secretary of
:44:09. > :44:14.State for education he stripped �11 million away from the St Leonards
:44:14. > :44:18.academy. It nearly didn't get built. That is not true. The �70 million
:44:18. > :44:25.combined going into the two academy, of which East Sussex County Council
:44:25. > :44:28.is picking up about a third. They picked up �11 billion because that
:44:28. > :44:32.was taken away from the Government. The council have footed the bill
:44:32. > :44:35.because the money wasn't there from your Government. It is taxpayer
:44:35. > :44:38.money, do you think the children mind where it comes from the
:44:38. > :44:41.council or the Government. The majority is coming from the
:44:41. > :44:44.Government 6789 what I am concerned about is these schools get built
:44:44. > :44:49.and the family, the children have better opportunities than they have
:44:49. > :44:53.had before. It is education, and it is worklessness, as Jeremy referm -
:44:53. > :44:55.- referred to. You have families who have been unemployed for
:44:55. > :45:00.generation, we are targeting through the Government families
:45:01. > :45:06.like that so we can help them. We can help them get back to work, get
:45:06. > :45:09.educated so we can end that cycle. The best thing to erads Kate child
:45:09. > :45:13.poverty is education and work, those are the areas we will focus
:45:13. > :45:17.on to take them out of poverty. us go back to Mark Reckless on this
:45:18. > :45:22.one. On the subject of employment, it is a bit of a myth isn't it. It
:45:22. > :45:27.is not the only problem by any means. Nearly 60% of the children
:45:27. > :45:33.who live in poverty have at least one parent in work. Well, in the
:45:33. > :45:39.short-term I think that the poverty we are speaking about, children
:45:39. > :45:44.living in a household with 60% less of average income. You could
:45:44. > :45:47.increase benefits. This year people on benefits are getting an
:45:47. > :45:51.inflation rise. I think in the longer term, if we want to tackle
:45:51. > :45:54.this problem, you have to make it more attractive for people to work,
:45:54. > :45:58.compared to being on benefit. We have to ensure that jobs are there
:45:58. > :46:02.for people trained, who are local, and not just always have more and
:46:02. > :46:07.more in the way of immigration. are not seriously telling me what
:46:07. > :46:11.the Government is doing in terms of austerity is improving the lot for
:46:11. > :46:13.poor families. According to the campaign for poverty, child poverty
:46:14. > :46:18.action group. The changes your Government has brought in will mean
:46:19. > :46:23.a baby born to a low income family in April last year will be �1500
:46:23. > :46:27.worse Ofcom paired to a sibling born in 2010. You are making them
:46:27. > :46:31.poorer. I have read that report. What they haven't taken into
:46:31. > :46:35.account for this year people on benefit they are getting inceefs 5%
:46:35. > :46:40.when people in work are only getting 2%. We have o make sure
:46:40. > :46:44.that work pays. That is why we are bringing in a universal credit, so
:46:44. > :46:48.that the taper at which income is withdrawn when people get a job is
:46:49. > :46:52.less, an we insist people go to work, help them get into that work
:46:52. > :46:55.and don't allow this option of continuing to be on benefit,
:46:55. > :46:58.without the pressure and expectation. So speaks a man
:46:58. > :47:06.without children and doesn't know about the cost of childcare when
:47:06. > :47:10.you work longer hours. I spoke to a senior teacher at Hastings academy.
:47:10. > :47:14.She said poverty of aspiration is what we have. These children don't
:47:14. > :47:18.dream o of doing amazing thing, they see their future the same as
:47:18. > :47:26.their parents and grandparents. How do you help them? We have to break
:47:26. > :47:29.the cycle. I want children to dream they can become any occupation they
:47:29. > :47:34.become doctors, lawyer, MPs, rather than thinking their only aspiration
:47:34. > :47:37.is to continue in whatever their family has been doing, which may
:47:37. > :47:41.well be generational unemployment. That is something we have to break.
:47:41. > :47:44.What worries me, in Hastings in particular, with 43% of people who
:47:44. > :47:51.are employed in the public sector. I am not sure where the jobs are
:47:51. > :47:56.going to be. One of the most selfish things is us as individuals.
:47:56. > :47:59.Isn't it selfish to have children when you can't afford to bring them
:47:59. > :48:02.up outside of poverty. You. Children are a blessing. The
:48:02. > :48:07.important thing is to work with your family to make sure you give
:48:07. > :48:17.your children the best opportunity. Thank you for joining us. Now, a
:48:17. > :48:22.
:48:22. > :48:26.reminder of the other week's events Kent based Gurkhas may have won
:48:26. > :48:31.over Joanna Lumley but they are facing their toughest battle after
:48:31. > :48:34.being singled out for cuts by the MoD. Plans for Boris island airport
:48:34. > :48:40.were floated again and saw the coalition partners at loggerheads.
:48:40. > :48:42.The Prime Minister is apparently increasingly interested, but the
:48:42. > :48:47.Liberal Democrat Transport Minister Norman Baker is emphatic in his
:48:47. > :48:51.opposition. We do not support the building of a new airport.
:48:51. > :48:56.Politicians paid tribute to Dave Leigh who died this week. A big man
:48:56. > :49:01.in every way, he also left a big legacy, raising more than �2
:49:01. > :49:10.million for charity. And David Cameron caused outraiming by
:49:10. > :49:15.calling a veteran Labour MP a dinosaur. The honourable lady gets
:49:15. > :49:25.a bit hysterical, in fact... Still at least he didn't tell her to calm
:49:25. > :49:26.
:49:26. > :49:29.down dear. Let us pick up on the Gurkhas. Is that the end of the
:49:29. > :49:34.line now? Will there be further redundancies or can they get on
:49:34. > :49:38.with their work? I hope not. The Gurkhas have suffered a bigger cut.
:49:38. > :49:42.Fewer came forward to take the voluntary redundancy, in Medway we
:49:42. > :49:46.have a lot of Gurkhas and retired Gurkhas and the contribution they
:49:46. > :49:49.have made is immense, I there won't be any more redundancies. We are
:49:49. > :49:55.chuckling at the end with the insult. Is politics a world where
:49:55. > :50:03.you have to get used to insults. What is the worst thing anybody has
:50:03. > :50:08.said to you Jeremy? That is printable. There was a placard once
:50:08. > :50:12.saying knock birch off his perch. I know Dennis scirn. He won't mind
:50:12. > :50:17.being called a dinosaur. Will he take it as a compliment. He will
:50:17. > :50:21.say if it is believing in socialist values at a time when the banks are
:50:21. > :50:25.collapsing, when free markets don't work, perhaps dinosaurs get a bad
:50:25. > :50:31.press. I don't think he will worry about it. What about you Mark? You
:50:31. > :50:36.haven't been in the world of politics all that long, Shortly
:50:36. > :50:43.after I was elected I won an award from my party's whips and it was in
:50:43. > :50:48.the newspaper. There was one letter and fives a the risks of it.
:50:48. > :50:54.Unbroadcastable. Before we go I probably owe you an apology