:01:28. > :01:31.In the South East, green or greedy? Brighton and Hove City Council's
:01:31. > :01:41.dramatically but are not parking charges for traders and they are
:01:41. > :01:41.
:01:41. > :35:21.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2019 seconds
:35:21. > :35:25.Welcomed to the Sunday Politics in the South East. Coming up,
:35:25. > :35:30.expedience over experience? Some of our longest serving police officers
:35:30. > :35:35.are being forced to retire to cut costs. How concerned should we be?
:35:35. > :35:40.First let me introduce you to our guests. The newly knighted Sir
:35:40. > :35:48.Roger Gale, Conservative MP for Thanet North, and crime novelist
:35:48. > :35:52.Peter James, whose books are set in Brighton. They will be with me for
:35:52. > :35:57.the next 20 minutes with their views on current events in the
:35:57. > :36:03.region. Roger, congratulations on your night had. How does it feel?
:36:03. > :36:07.It is great. People have been so nice about it. But it is not mine,
:36:07. > :36:11.it belongs to all the people who have worked with me for so long,
:36:11. > :36:19.including all the people who elected me. It is nice for North
:36:19. > :36:28.Thanet. Do you feel like another man? Completely! Of course not. I
:36:28. > :36:32.am Roger. Peter, not a knighthood, but on your website there is a
:36:32. > :36:40.little note encouraging fans to vote for your names -- Your Name to
:36:40. > :36:44.be used. It is a teaching organisation in Scotland and they
:36:44. > :36:51.have asked 10 crime writers to encourage their fans to vote for
:36:51. > :37:01.them. It costs �1 for the boat. The one who gets the most money will
:37:01. > :37:03.
:37:03. > :37:06.have be thing named after them. -- the thing. Roger, one to ask you
:37:06. > :37:10.about one event that has been in the news. The government has
:37:10. > :37:14.announced plans to introduce a levy on foreign lover it -- lorry
:37:14. > :37:17.drivers using our motorways. Kent County Council has been campaigning
:37:17. > :37:25.for this for about 20 years but they are not sure that will get the
:37:25. > :37:30.money brought in. No money of that kind normally goes to the county.
:37:30. > :37:37.It will go to the Department of Transport pot. But it will be used
:37:37. > :37:43.to build roads and it is a fair system. Our lorry drivers pay when
:37:43. > :37:47.we go abroad. They pay quite a lot. But mainland European lorry drivers
:37:47. > :37:53.do not pay when they come to Kent. We know the damage they can do to
:37:53. > :38:01.our of Rhodes, we know they drive around without diffused headlights.
:38:01. > :38:07.-- to our roads. Peter, I know you are an average car collector. What
:38:07. > :38:14.you make of charging foreign drivers? As Roger says, they cause
:38:14. > :38:20.more problems to English lorries. If a lorry is a problem in daringly
:38:20. > :38:25.-- invariably it is a foreign one. It used to be in the Guinness Book
:38:25. > :38:30.of Records, the loneliest tree in the world, knocked down by a
:38:30. > :38:35.Belgian lorry driver. Any car enthusiast who regularly visits
:38:35. > :38:40.Brighton can testify how expensive it can be to park in the city. The
:38:40. > :38:45.Green-run council wants to encrypt -- increase car-parking charges and
:38:45. > :38:48.the plans have caused upset. The council says it wants to raise
:38:48. > :38:58.revenue and increased emissions but opponents say it will harm the
:38:58. > :38:59.
:39:00. > :39:03.local economy. -- increase emissions.
:39:03. > :39:09.On a tea break from plumbing and electrical work, the tradesmen of
:39:09. > :39:13.Brighton and Hove protested over the city council's plans to
:39:13. > :39:20.increase the cost of parking permits. They allow traders to park
:39:20. > :39:23.wherever the jobs after �350 a year but it is set to rise to �600.
:39:23. > :39:28.Brighton council is run by the Green Party which is not only
:39:28. > :39:32.hoping to raise revenue but also make the city more environmentally
:39:32. > :39:41.friendly by encouraging the use of sustainable transport like buses.
:39:41. > :39:49.Trades men say this is not possible for the kind of work they do. John
:39:49. > :39:54.is a gas engineer. To do his job he needs to be able to park easily.
:39:54. > :39:58.Travelling around the city to do our work, we would be stuffed. In
:39:58. > :40:08.every job you go to you need staff out of your fan, whether you're
:40:08. > :40:12.tall bag or your full kit. -- van. Could you afford to pay nearly
:40:12. > :40:18.double fit your permit? Not at all. We are being dragged over the coals
:40:18. > :40:22.as it is with the cost of fuel and everything. Earlier this month a
:40:22. > :40:28.group called traders need transport was set up to it -- to protest
:40:28. > :40:37.against the changes. One-man businesses are working on profit
:40:37. > :40:42.margins between 5 % and 10 %. The amount of work they would need to
:40:42. > :40:47.compensate for this increase is very high. It is very difficult in
:40:47. > :40:51.the current climate. Putting up prices by 70 % is a kick in the
:40:51. > :40:57.teeth. It is not just traders permit that could God. The council
:40:57. > :41:01.wants to increase its revenue from various parking sources. -- that
:41:01. > :41:08.could go up. The council is hoping to more than double the cost of its
:41:08. > :41:13.business permits for people who need to park through its place of
:41:13. > :41:21.work. Then Derek parking meters, which are often used by visitors
:41:21. > :41:29.and shoppers. -- and Ben there are parking meters. These ones on the
:41:29. > :41:33.seafront are being nearly tripled from �2.20 for two hours to �6.
:41:33. > :41:38.Brighton and Hove is famous for its small independent shops but these
:41:38. > :41:42.increases concern some shop owners. The on-street car-parking,
:41:42. > :41:49.generally speaking you don't get a lot of time. You are only looking
:41:49. > :41:56.at a couple of hours anyway. To pop in and out in that short period, it
:41:56. > :42:03.will go up exponentially in price. It will be very detrimental on-
:42:03. > :42:06.trade. There is not really any doubt about that. What can you say?
:42:06. > :42:12.Everything is going up and your takings are going down, that is
:42:12. > :42:18.broadly what is happening. You can't just be constantly adding
:42:18. > :42:25.more pressure to small business. It stands or falls together and it can
:42:25. > :42:29.be a bit of a domino effect. That is what we are keen to avoid.
:42:29. > :42:33.no surprise that the Green Party wants to put its environmental
:42:33. > :42:36.stamp on the first city it is in charge of but clearly some people
:42:36. > :42:45.feel it is put in these ideals ahead of the needs of local traders
:42:45. > :42:50.and businesses. -- put him -- putting these ideals. Jason Kitcat,
:42:50. > :42:56.I think you are going to raise nearly �1 million by increasing the
:42:56. > :43:00.parking charges. What we do with that money? It will be invested
:43:00. > :43:05.into transport, bus subsidies and the public realm. The government
:43:05. > :43:09.are reducing our funding by 33 % over four years so we are in a
:43:09. > :43:13.situation where we have less money coming in from government. It is
:43:13. > :43:20.not happening just because we have had a sudden inspiration, it is
:43:20. > :43:23.because the government are pressing us from every point of view. We saw
:43:24. > :43:28.some of those struggling small businesses, they are already having
:43:28. > :43:34.their margins squeezed. John the gas engineer is not going to use
:43:34. > :43:38.public transport. Absolutely. The previous administration left a two-
:43:38. > :43:42.to-three year waiting list for permits. People had to pay and
:43:42. > :43:47.display and pay much more. We have eliminated that waiting list and
:43:47. > :43:51.people getting a permit will be paying less than �2 a day to park.
:43:51. > :43:57.We are supporting those traders. They will be able to park for
:43:57. > :44:02.cheaper anywhere. That is not good news for the beach shop owner, who
:44:02. > :44:06.said that it costs �6 an hour. Nobody will pop into the city
:44:06. > :44:11.centre and do a bit of shopping. have simplified the parking tariffs
:44:11. > :44:16.or stop if you look at the proposals overall, the increase is
:44:16. > :44:21.just over 5 %, in line with inflation. Some have gone up more
:44:21. > :44:27.to try to push people into the other car-parks. We have multi-
:44:27. > :44:31.storey car parks that are not being used. We want to rationalise the
:44:31. > :44:36.situation. The seafront parking spaces are very popular and there
:44:36. > :44:39.is a lot of pressure. You are a Green-run council but you are
:44:39. > :44:45.talking about balancing the books. Is this about revenue rather than
:44:45. > :44:48.getting people out of their cars? bit of both. With regards to the
:44:48. > :44:52.trade as permits it is about eliminating the waiting lists. In
:44:52. > :44:59.some areas it is about increasing revenue and it is also about
:44:59. > :45:05.supporting the green agenda. aren't you raising residents'
:45:06. > :45:13.permits? Every stone has a different waiting list and the
:45:13. > :45:20.level of pressure. -- zone. doesn't sound very green. You could
:45:20. > :45:27.go further with this. In Lewes it costs �1,000 to have a trait --
:45:27. > :45:37.trading permit. We think that some traders do need to have drive the
:45:37. > :45:37.
:45:37. > :45:41.fans so we have taken the middle ground on this. -- vans. Peter, you
:45:41. > :45:50.are a driver and you live near Brighton. Do you take your car into
:45:50. > :45:56.Brighton? Near Brighton. Successive councils have waged a war on
:45:56. > :46:01.motorists, particularly those coming from out-of-town. My partner
:46:01. > :46:04.doesn't go into Brighton any more, she goes to Tunbridge Wells or
:46:04. > :46:09.Guildford, where you can park easily. There has to be a reason
:46:09. > :46:13.why Brighton does not have one single world-class department store
:46:13. > :46:17.today. It does not have a Harvey Nichols or a John Lewis because
:46:17. > :46:25.people do not go there to shop. We have to help motorists, not drive
:46:25. > :46:29.them out. Sir Roger, you were saying you thought it was insane.
:46:29. > :46:34.Everybody in so -- understands that you have to pay for parking schemes
:46:34. > :46:40.and you have to control parking but using parking as a fund raiser is
:46:40. > :46:47.quite wrong. I am opposed to any new burden on small business and I
:46:47. > :46:53.think that this is what this is. this has not been implemented yet,
:46:53. > :46:56.as it? Are you going to make any changes? We have made modifications
:46:56. > :47:01.but fundamentally visit the numbers continue to increase in Brighton
:47:01. > :47:05.and Hove, there is massive pressure and we would like to get people to
:47:05. > :47:12.consider using the bus or the train if they can. Those who do park will
:47:12. > :47:17.have to pay the price unfortunately. We will leave it there for now. We
:47:17. > :47:26.will be including due in our next discussion. D S Roy grace, the main
:47:26. > :47:31.character in Peter's Roy -- crime novels, is becoming a rare breed.
:47:31. > :47:34.To make budget cuts each of our police forces are being asked to
:47:34. > :47:40.lose staff. Home Office figures released this week said that police
:47:40. > :47:44.officer numbers across the country are the lowest for a decade. Sussex
:47:44. > :47:48.and Surrey Police have been using a controversial tactic to force
:47:48. > :47:55.officers with 30 years' experience into retirement. Peter, you know
:47:55. > :48:00.many of these people personally and you are concerned. Yes, it is men
:48:00. > :48:05.and women and what concerns me is that the police have to save money,
:48:05. > :48:12.that is fine, but we have been hearing noises about this not
:48:12. > :48:17.affecting the frontline. It is just not the case. The chief constables,
:48:17. > :48:23.and it is not just Sussex and Surrey Police, it is every force,
:48:23. > :48:28.because to save 20% of costs when 85 % of their costs our labour,
:48:28. > :48:34.they will have to bring this in. It is a very blunt instrument. The
:48:34. > :48:40.thing about A19 is that it does not discriminate. Everybody goes after
:48:40. > :48:50.30 years. The majority of police officers Gauguin in their teens so
:48:50. > :48:53.you are losing people at 48, 49 years old. -- Degas in. When the
:48:53. > :49:03.government is persuading people to work longer, they are dissuading
:49:03. > :49:08.
:49:08. > :49:12.people from staying in the job. We have lost two district commanders.
:49:12. > :49:19.It is not just at the top, it is people with massive experience down
:49:19. > :49:24.the ranks. A lady who has just received the Queen's Police model
:49:24. > :49:30.and she would love to have done another 10 or five years and she
:49:30. > :49:33.has had to go. A19 is the legislation that enables police
:49:33. > :49:43.authorities to lose their staff after 30 years but it has not been
:49:43. > :49:44.
:49:44. > :49:49.introduced yet. What would you say if they did? A19 has not been used
:49:49. > :49:55.so far. He is right, it it's a very blunt instrument, it was not
:49:55. > :50:00.designed for this purpose. The police constable can't say, I have
:50:00. > :50:06.somebody who has done 30 years but is highly productive and we need to
:50:06. > :50:10.keep them. That is the problem. There has to be a better way.
:50:10. > :50:15.is the better way? I think both your party and the Labour Party
:50:15. > :50:19.agree that the 20 % cuts have to happen. We know that we have a
:50:19. > :50:23.massive deficit that we inherited and we have to deal with it. Chief
:50:23. > :50:28.constables have to be given the right to discriminate, to choose,
:50:28. > :50:34.to say, that person has real wisdom, we need that person, male or female,
:50:34. > :50:40.on the force. Somebody else may be less productive. That person has to
:50:40. > :50:47.be got rid of. Without naming names, Peter, would you concede that some
:50:47. > :50:52.people after 30 years, it is time for them to go? Absolutely. Just
:50:52. > :50:57.like a character in my books who is an old racist homophobic. He was
:50:57. > :51:00.based on somebody! Roger is right, the chief constables can't
:51:00. > :51:06.discriminate and their hands are being forced by the government. It
:51:06. > :51:09.is completely wrong. It is not just at the senior level where there are
:51:09. > :51:17.some superb people going. It is intelligence officers, drugs
:51:17. > :51:22.liaison officers. You are losing people who deal with the court
:51:22. > :51:26.process, who process prisoners. Jason Kitcat, what are your
:51:26. > :51:30.concerns about this? You are having to make difficult choices. What
:51:30. > :51:34.should happen to the police? don't support cuts in police
:51:34. > :51:43.numbers but this is something that all areas of local public service
:51:43. > :51:46.are seeing. It is trying to enforce these budget targets. It is
:51:46. > :51:51.experienced people being made to leave and to there is a hollowing
:51:51. > :51:55.out of the expertise in these organisations. It is building up
:51:55. > :51:59.big problems for later on. policing Minister would say there
:51:59. > :52:06.was and no correlation between losing officers and crime rates
:52:06. > :52:10.going up. That is true that we are determined to maintain the front
:52:10. > :52:15.line. But we have to maintain the front line with the right people.
:52:15. > :52:21.Bill Bratton was brought in because he was the person who single-
:52:21. > :52:25.handedly cleaned up new York. He didn't. New York was cleaned up
:52:26. > :52:35.because they trebled the number of police officers. Now it is time for
:52:35. > :52:39.our round-up of events with Louise Stewart.
:52:39. > :52:44.Sheppey was dealt a blow with the announcement that the island's
:52:44. > :52:47.largest private employer, Thamesteel Ltd, has gone into
:52:47. > :52:51.administration with the loss of around at 250 jobs.
:52:51. > :53:00.Most South East residents will see their council tax frozen for a
:53:00. > :53:05.second year. Those councils rejected them and voted for an
:53:05. > :53:15.increase. She Robinson faced questions from
:53:15. > :53:17.
:53:17. > :53:21.MPs on the cost of beat some of's games. -- Hugh Robinson. MPs have
:53:21. > :53:28.bought more tickets for the beach volleyball than any other sport.
:53:28. > :53:38.The MP for South Thanet used a food prices debate to plug her new
:53:38. > :53:40.
:53:40. > :53:47.company to sell ugly fruit and veg. Tasty but imperfect, just like you.
:53:48. > :53:52.We love that. Sir Roger, about Thamesteel, a terrible situation.
:53:52. > :53:57.What can politicians realistically do? If it is your mortgage, your
:53:57. > :54:02.family, then one job is one job to many. They are feeling real pain.
:54:02. > :54:06.All I can say is that even as we are sitting here Gordon Henderson,
:54:06. > :54:10.who represents Sheppey, is working with the people managing the
:54:10. > :54:18.business to try to find a solution. It may not be possible but they are
:54:18. > :54:27.doing their level best because we need those skills intent. -- in
:54:27. > :54:36.Kent. Do you have any volley ball tickets? Sadly no, but I will watch
:54:36. > :54:41.pretty closely on TV. Are you getting into the spirit of 2012?
:54:41. > :54:45.think it is fantastic. I can understand why politicians want to
:54:45. > :54:55.watch a volley ball, it is juggling something in the air. We will leave
:54:55. > :54:57.
:54:58. > :55:05.it at that! The beach volleyball is in Margate. Yes, and I think the