0:01:30 > 0:01:33In the south-east, concern for animal welfare. The RSPCA says live
0:01:33 > 0:01:43exports at Ramsgate are in breach of the rules. We hear from the
0:01:43 > 0:01:43
0:01:43 > 0:29:39Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1676 seconds
0:29:39 > 0:29:43Hello, this is the Sunday Politics in the south-east. Coming up in the
0:29:43 > 0:29:48next 20 minutes. Will it be a democratic snub or a liberal dose
0:29:48 > 0:29:53of good will? We take a look at the Lib Dem's prospect in next week's
0:29:53 > 0:30:03local council elections. Joining me is the Lib Dem MP get East Berlin,
0:30:03 > 0:30:03
0:30:03 > 0:30:06it Stephen Lloyd, and the Greens south-east MEP, Keith Taylor. First,
0:30:06 > 0:30:14is the Brighton and Hove Greens council losing its nerve? It has
0:30:14 > 0:30:18modified its policy of bubbling -- doubling parking charges on the
0:30:18 > 0:30:27seafront by introducing a cheaper tariff. It will be �15 for eight
0:30:27 > 0:30:31hours on the seafront, instead of �20. Keith, you are an ex
0:30:31 > 0:30:36councillor, is this the reality of power? Backing down? They are
0:30:36 > 0:30:40looking to the fact that air pollution is the number-one health
0:30:40 > 0:30:46risk for environmental causes. They are trying to solve the problems of
0:30:46 > 0:30:49congestion and pollution. This whole furore it is about a small
0:30:49 > 0:30:53proportion of the parking stuck in the City. I am really pleased they
0:30:53 > 0:30:59are announcing that they have reviewed it, and the charges are
0:30:59 > 0:31:03coming down. Part of the bigger plan is that parking charges in
0:31:03 > 0:31:09areas within 10 minutes of the seafront have been frozen, or have
0:31:09 > 0:31:14been kept very low. So that way, it is stopping the cars entering the
0:31:14 > 0:31:18most polluted and can jesting air - - congested areas. You know from
0:31:18 > 0:31:25your experience in Eastbourne, raise parking charges and there is
0:31:25 > 0:31:29a big uprising. There is. The East Sussex council a shot up charges a
0:31:29 > 0:31:34few years ago much to the disgust of the Champ -- the town. I was
0:31:34 > 0:31:37talking to a Brighton resident recently, he showed me a picture of
0:31:37 > 0:31:43the stretches up by the seafront, and there was a quarter of mile of
0:31:43 > 0:31:50parking spaces and only one car parked there. I knew the Greens
0:31:50 > 0:31:55would compromise otherwise the whole Tamar did combusted. -- the
0:31:55 > 0:31:59whole town would have combusted. The RSPCA started monitoring the
0:31:59 > 0:32:03live export trade in Rams court -- Ramsgate port last month. Ramsgate
0:32:03 > 0:32:06is the only port in the country that transports livestock for
0:32:06 > 0:32:10slaughter across the Channel. Animal rights campaigners say the
0:32:10 > 0:32:14practice is cruel and unnecessary, but they have not stopped tens of
0:32:14 > 0:32:21thousands of sheep and calves being shipped from there to Europe in the
0:32:21 > 0:32:29past year. He is this human profit over animal welfare?
0:32:29 > 0:32:33The emotional reaction to live animal exports from Ramsgate port.
0:32:33 > 0:32:38Every time the livestock lorries arrive, there is a protest. It is
0:32:38 > 0:32:42the only port in England that exports live animals for slaughter.
0:32:42 > 0:32:45Around 80,000 left the country this way last year. The animals are
0:32:45 > 0:32:50mainly sheep and calves on their way to the Continent. Everybody
0:32:50 > 0:32:52that is down there can carry these and wave them. Campaigners
0:32:52 > 0:32:57including Kenneth action appears live exports say this is called the
0:32:57 > 0:33:01animals, as it means they are being crammed in for very long journeys
0:33:01 > 0:33:05for more time than it would take to drive from Kent to Scotland. Let's
0:33:05 > 0:33:11say a farmer from Kent wishes to send some animals across. The have
0:33:11 > 0:33:14to load his transporter, moved to an area close to the dock, where
0:33:14 > 0:33:22they have to have a minimum of an hour's rest while they are
0:33:22 > 0:33:26inspected. They then board the ship from Ramsgate and takes four-and-a-
0:33:26 > 0:33:32half hours to get to Calais. They are then unloaded, and their
0:33:32 > 0:33:36nearest abattoir is an hour-and-a- half away. So we are already
0:33:36 > 0:33:42talking about a journey time of approximately eight hours plus. And
0:33:42 > 0:33:46it is just the slaughter. Animals going anywhere else, down to Spain,
0:33:46 > 0:33:52have considerably more time on the wagon. How long can those journeys
0:33:52 > 0:33:56take? The Jenny's can take two or three days. In the last few weeks,
0:33:56 > 0:34:00the RSPCA has taken matters into its own hands and is monitoring
0:34:00 > 0:34:03every live export. It is the first time in 10 years the charity has
0:34:03 > 0:34:07done this at a UK port. It does not have the power to stop the trade,
0:34:07 > 0:34:12so the better it can hope for is to get enough evidence to prosecute
0:34:12 > 0:34:16exporters if they are not treating the animals properly. All of the
0:34:16 > 0:34:20legislation and the rules are compliant on being enforced, and we
0:34:20 > 0:34:26know they are not being enforced. Our own investigations and our own
0:34:26 > 0:34:30spot checks hit Ramsgate have shown that some of the standards are not
0:34:30 > 0:34:36being implemented and that is a real concern. The annals are often
0:34:36 > 0:34:39slaughtered soon after the genet which -- after their journey which
0:34:39 > 0:34:44campaigners say is needless because they could be slaughtered here and
0:34:44 > 0:34:50then shipped abroad. But the way food is labelled a board means it
0:34:50 > 0:34:54is not happened. French people like a French sheep, but there is a huge
0:34:54 > 0:34:58loophole. If your sheep is in France for just a short time it can
0:34:58 > 0:35:02be labelled as the produce of France. Thanet District Council
0:35:02 > 0:35:06owns the port, and whilst it is against the trade, the 19th century
0:35:06 > 0:35:10harbours Act said it had no choice but to accept it. But the council
0:35:10 > 0:35:17says it will not make the exporters lives easy. Within the framework of
0:35:17 > 0:35:20the law, we are hoping that by exposing the infringements to the
0:35:20 > 0:35:25welfare of animals, that it is going to make the trade more and
0:35:25 > 0:35:31more difficult to operate out of that port -- the port of Ramsgate.
0:35:31 > 0:35:39There is plenty of scope within the law to make it difficult for the
0:35:39 > 0:35:42Some farmers say they need to stem the animals abroad for slaughter to
0:35:42 > 0:35:47get the biggest possible price. But the RSPCA says there is a market
0:35:47 > 0:35:50here which would also generate jobs. If we keep the animals like sheep
0:35:50 > 0:35:54or cards in the country, we have got a market for them, the farmer
0:35:54 > 0:36:01is being paid, we send them to an abattoir and slaughtermen are paid,
0:36:01 > 0:36:05it is better for a British animal to be kept in Britain and turn into
0:36:05 > 0:36:09good British food. That we know the consumers and public wants to buy
0:36:09 > 0:36:12British. So surely we should give the map of the car -- opportunity.
0:36:12 > 0:36:15It is it necessary for British sheep and calves are to go on
0:36:15 > 0:36:20journeys which it is said to last for days, when instead they could
0:36:20 > 0:36:24be slaughtered in this country, provided more local jobs and more
0:36:24 > 0:36:29local produce? From a studio in Birmingham we are
0:36:29 > 0:36:32joined by Peter Garbutt from the National for Masumi him. Why is
0:36:32 > 0:36:37this trade messes -- the National Farmers' Union. Why is this
0:36:37 > 0:36:41necessary? This is a legitimate and lawful trade. The market exists in
0:36:41 > 0:36:45the Continent, people wants to buy English stock and British stock
0:36:45 > 0:36:49over there. And as long as the transport takes place within the
0:36:49 > 0:36:52law, following the tight regulatory guidelines that we all have to
0:36:52 > 0:36:57follow, there is no reason that our farmers should not be allowed
0:36:57 > 0:37:03access to that market. You say it is unlawful, but we had from the
0:37:03 > 0:37:09RSPCA inspectors are saying they are concerned the guidelines are
0:37:09 > 0:37:13not being followed. The NFU has also called for their enforcement
0:37:13 > 0:37:16of the standards in Europe. We were there to be no loopholes that
0:37:16 > 0:37:20people can get through. We have seen it two revisions of the
0:37:20 > 0:37:25legislation in the last 10 years, and we want the standards to be
0:37:25 > 0:37:30abided by. So you will welcome the RSPCA inspectors' presents at
0:37:30 > 0:37:35Ramsgate? They are there at Ramsgate to insure their standards
0:37:35 > 0:37:40are being met, and I do not think any shipments have been shocked.
0:37:40 > 0:37:46People are adhering to the guidelines. They cannot stop
0:37:46 > 0:37:53shipments, but they can raise concerns. Death or issued warnings
0:37:53 > 0:37:58in March. -- Defra issued warnings. We have a high level of scrutiny at
0:37:58 > 0:38:01Ramsgate and still export are going out. Do you think the RSPCA are
0:38:01 > 0:38:08wrong to raise these concerns about lack of ventilation and of the way
0:38:08 > 0:38:13the animals are being handled? have very strict guidelines...
0:38:13 > 0:38:17they are not being adhered to a point to the RSPCA. If they are not
0:38:17 > 0:38:22being adhered to, we would expect the government to bring prosecution
0:38:22 > 0:38:27notices. And that is what is happening. We expect the trade to
0:38:27 > 0:38:32continue. It might be lawful, but people do not like it. Animals
0:38:32 > 0:38:38being cooped up for high times in height images without access to
0:38:38 > 0:38:42water, it is not a nice. I can understand the people's opinions of
0:38:42 > 0:38:47these traits are not good, and we need to listen to public opinion.
0:38:47 > 0:38:53But we also have to base it on sound science. There was a lot of
0:38:53 > 0:38:57science conducted, or when the legislation was drawn up, and none
0:38:57 > 0:39:01of them have suggested that overseas travel is a detriment to
0:39:01 > 0:39:06animal welfare, and none of them have suggested a limit to transport
0:39:06 > 0:39:13links. If we could sell the produce in France and not export animals
0:39:13 > 0:39:17for slaughter, would you like that? It would be great to exports --
0:39:17 > 0:39:27increase exports on the hook, but there is always demand for export
0:39:27 > 0:39:32
0:39:32 > 0:39:36on the who. -- on the hoof. But these people are within the law.
0:39:36 > 0:39:42I take issue with a couple of things that Peter said, perversely
0:39:42 > 0:39:46about the stress experienced by the animals -- firstly about the stress.
0:39:46 > 0:39:54I was speaking to a veterinary association yesterday that were
0:39:54 > 0:39:58explaining the levels of stress can increased -- decrease immunity to
0:39:58 > 0:40:06the diseases. Is there any difference between being in a ship
0:40:06 > 0:40:11or on the road? I am not happy with the whole trade, I have been on
0:40:11 > 0:40:15record signing early day motions, I have written to the... Animals
0:40:15 > 0:40:20travel for eight hours on the road in this country quite lawfully, so?
0:40:20 > 0:40:26You're not against that? No, I am not, it is a reality we have to
0:40:26 > 0:40:29face. With the CJD, what concerns me is what the RSPCA says. They are
0:40:29 > 0:40:33a respected organisation, and if they say they are not entirely
0:40:33 > 0:40:39happy that the rules are being adhered to, I share that Abbey's.
0:40:39 > 0:40:42One a point of accuracy, the European Parliament has voted its
0:40:42 > 0:40:49position that there should be a maximum eight-hour limit, but we
0:40:49 > 0:40:53are seeing of vehicles in Europe for 24 and 36 hours. This is not
0:40:53 > 0:40:58popular, it is in the top three of my postbag complaints. It is not
0:40:58 > 0:41:02worth doing for a very small number of farmers to make �15 more profit.
0:41:02 > 0:41:08Let's put that point to Peter Garbutt. I think there is quite a
0:41:08 > 0:41:11large European trade on this. There is a lot of over eight hour
0:41:11 > 0:41:16transport in the EU due to this year sides of the area and the
0:41:16 > 0:41:20Commission recently reviewed the legislation and decided not to
0:41:20 > 0:41:27impose a maximum eight-hour limit. They said they would be better at
0:41:27 > 0:41:32maximum enforcement across Europe, we would be behind that.
0:41:32 > 0:41:36Thank you very much for joining us. This Thursday, the residents of
0:41:36 > 0:41:41Hastings, Crawley, Tunbridge Wells, Maidstone and Tandridge will be
0:41:41 > 0:41:46casting their vote in council elections. In the 2011 poll, the
0:41:46 > 0:41:51Liberal Democrat vote was craft -- half in the south-east, falling
0:41:51 > 0:41:53from 182 council seats to just 93, with most of the losses and run up
0:41:53 > 0:41:58to benefiting the Conservatives as well as Labour. Will it be
0:41:58 > 0:42:02different this time and what will the results tell us about the
0:42:02 > 0:42:05political future of the party in the region? Let's go to the Liberal
0:42:05 > 0:42:09Democrat MP for Eastbourne, Stephen Lloyd. It could get worse for you
0:42:09 > 0:42:15on Thursday night. It could but I do not think it will. I was talking
0:42:15 > 0:42:19to a number of colleagues on my way here, in Woking, Worthing and
0:42:19 > 0:42:26Hastings, and the Duke is, we are doing well there and we are hoping
0:42:26 > 0:42:33to gain some seeds. Do you think you will? I think we will. Were the
0:42:33 > 0:42:37largest party is no overall control, but at the minute, from the views
0:42:37 > 0:42:41we are getting in the doorstep, we are going to take control in that
0:42:41 > 0:42:47area. In Worthing, we will take a couple of seats. In Eastbourne, we
0:42:47 > 0:42:53don't have elections. But you do in Hastings. I visited Hastings last
0:42:53 > 0:42:59weekend, or the weekend before last, it is a bit of a black! One of the
0:42:59 > 0:43:04-- a bit of a Blair! One of the local candidates, Labour won it a
0:43:04 > 0:43:11few years ago, they have got a huge majority, and what I was getting on
0:43:11 > 0:43:20the doorstep is once they won this award, they just ignored us. Your
0:43:20 > 0:43:25party in Crawley failed to meet the deadline to put in candidates. So
0:43:25 > 0:43:33you are not filled in any. It is infuriating, it was an
0:43:33 > 0:43:38administrative cock-up. It is human nature, Show Me one election where
0:43:38 > 0:43:46some activist has forgotten to do something. Watch out this year, a
0:43:46 > 0:43:52wedding, Mole Valley and Wedding and Hastings. -- Worthing, and
0:43:52 > 0:43:56Hastings. We actually lost our last two Lib Dem councillors, and I
0:43:56 > 0:44:00think that was a foretaste of what we are going to see next week.
0:44:00 > 0:44:05do you think will happen with the Lib Dems? I cannot work out whether
0:44:05 > 0:44:10they will get hammered or battered! I am not entirely sure what the
0:44:10 > 0:44:14difference is, but I get the gist! Last time, they got blamed after
0:44:14 > 0:44:18tuition fees, for the coalition government. This time round, you
0:44:18 > 0:44:23could expect the Conservatives to lose seats, but the Lib Dems go
0:44:23 > 0:44:28down with them. Of course they did. The Lib Dems have enabled a Tory
0:44:28 > 0:44:31government to get us into a terrible situation, with austerity
0:44:31 > 0:44:36measures, with a double-dip recession, whereas what we really
0:44:36 > 0:44:40need is more jobs, especially for young people, which actually tackle
0:44:40 > 0:44:49the real challenges of climate change. We need proper leadership
0:44:49 > 0:44:56from government. Apart from parking charges! Is there anything wrong
0:44:57 > 0:45:00for listening to people? People are blaming alike -- and right wing
0:45:00 > 0:45:05Tory government, thank God we have got a party with liberals in it. At
0:45:05 > 0:45:09the last Budget, we gave a tax benefit of 2 million people. With
0:45:09 > 0:45:13the Liberals in government, we have got some a equilibrium. Without
0:45:13 > 0:45:18us... If we are talking taxation, the government has just delivered a
0:45:18 > 0:45:28huge benefit for very rich people. Do we want the gap between rich and
0:45:28 > 0:45:28
0:45:28 > 0:45:30poor to carry on increasing? Can we talk about the Greenss? You are
0:45:30 > 0:45:35fielding told candidate in Maidstone, and putting all your
0:45:35 > 0:45:41eggs in one basket. Why Maidstone? And Red Hot East as well, we are
0:45:42 > 0:45:47looking to add another councillor to our two existing councillors. We
0:45:47 > 0:45:53are only a small party, we like to give as many people the chance to
0:45:53 > 0:45:56vote Greens in every election. you have identified that area?
0:45:56 > 0:46:00was there the other day. In Maidstone, we were doing a campaign
0:46:00 > 0:46:04in the local community about reducing speed limits, which is a
0:46:04 > 0:46:10big issue for me as a member of the Transport Committee in the European
0:46:10 > 0:46:14Cup -- parliament. We had a fantastic response. So we are quite
0:46:14 > 0:46:18hopeful of gaining seats. UKIP are fielding a lot more candidates, you
0:46:18 > 0:46:22are not worried that they could game candidates? I do not know why
0:46:22 > 0:46:27you would want to roads UKIP, in a European election, they never vote
0:46:27 > 0:46:31or turn up. In a local election, they are trying to reinvent
0:46:31 > 0:46:35themselves. I do not know if they have got any policies. In Seaford,
0:46:35 > 0:46:45they won because they take votes from the Tories. Michael -- Nigel
0:46:45 > 0:46:49
0:46:49 > 0:46:52Farage is not here to defend South-east MEP Nigel Farage welcome
0:46:52 > 0:46:58the news that the Kent bitters them bits -- Christopher Tappin has been
0:46:58 > 0:47:01mild -- released on bail. I am not a terrorist, I have never had any
0:47:01 > 0:47:05corrections -- connection with terrorism. I am appalled that
0:47:05 > 0:47:12things can come to this. Tracie couch, who has been
0:47:12 > 0:47:17campaigning on behalf of asbestos victims, held a climbdown which
0:47:17 > 0:47:20would have forced them to pay their own legal bills. The Green Party
0:47:20 > 0:47:25leader Caroline Lucas criticise Southern Water for criticised -- or
0:47:26 > 0:47:32waiting millions of gallons -- criticise other mortar for wasting
0:47:32 > 0:47:38millions of gallons a day. Look no further from -- Mark
0:47:38 > 0:47:42Reckless tested the Home Secretary Theresa May on her honest --
0:47:42 > 0:47:46knowledge of the ministerial code. I have not read every single
0:47:46 > 0:47:52ministerial code, and every single Prime Minister there has ever been,
0:47:52 > 0:47:57I have not. Well, Home Secretary, I have.
0:47:57 > 0:48:02I cannot pretend my knowledge of the ministerial code is any good!
0:48:02 > 0:48:07Be you admire him for his defiance and confident as a backbench MP?
0:48:07 > 0:48:09am rather worried, I know him and I can imagine him reading every
0:48:09 > 0:48:16single detail on every constitutional paper, rather him
0:48:16 > 0:48:21than the! It is a good thing, to have backbench MPs, not intimidated
0:48:21 > 0:48:24by ministers, prepared to be defiant. I asked a question of the
0:48:24 > 0:48:29MPs on Wednesday, I reminded the Prime Minister that there are many
0:48:29 > 0:48:32millions of people in this country who pay money into charity because
0:48:32 > 0:48:37they once too hot and do not expect anything back. I called that
0:48:37 > 0:48:41suffers, and I asked the Prime Minister, the percentage of wealthy
0:48:41 > 0:48:46people who wants to get the money - - charity to get money back...
0:48:46 > 0:48:50you are challenging as well! What is your knowledge of the
0:48:50 > 0:48:55ministerial code, Keith Taylor? could stand improvement. One word
0:48:55 > 0:48:59of praise for Mark Reckless. He has got enough about it -- to be
0:48:59 > 0:49:06rebellious about, what coalition government is doing. But one great
0:49:06 > 0:49:11thing he did was vote against the �9,000 tuition fees, and that was a
0:49:11 > 0:49:18very sound move. That is what we need MPs to do, to live up to their