:01:39. > :01:42.In the South East: Our exclusive investigation reveals
:01:42. > :01:52.Surrey Police spent nearly �1.5 million on consultants last year -
:01:52. > :01:52.
:01:52. > :35:24.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2012 seconds
:35:25. > :35:29.This is Sunday Politics in the South East. Coming up: A happy
:35:29. > :35:35.Green birthday or a year of disappointments? 12 months after
:35:35. > :35:39.the people of Brighton and Hove elected the first to Green
:35:39. > :35:46.authority, we give them a report card. In the studio is the leader
:35:46. > :35:51.in waiting, Jason Kit Kat. Thank you for coming. Our other guest is
:35:51. > :35:56.Paul Carter, the Conservative leader of Kent County Council. The
:35:56. > :36:01.A21, one of the most congested as roads in the South East could
:36:01. > :36:05.finally be widened. This week, the roads minister agreed to jointly
:36:05. > :36:10.fund a public inquiry with Kent County Council. He gave me a strong
:36:10. > :36:15.hint on Radio Kent that the project will be signed off in 2015 when the
:36:15. > :36:20.Government's next spending round begins. It sounded like it was the
:36:20. > :36:26.number one a road-building priority. Paul Carter, is it guaranteed? You
:36:26. > :36:31.are putting up �4 million for this. Has Mike Penning said it is
:36:31. > :36:35.definitely going ahead? Yes. It is one of the few schemes to be
:36:35. > :36:40.involved in the public inquiry stage. We need to get that out the
:36:40. > :36:44.way. We need to make sure all the surveys are done so we are ready to
:36:44. > :36:49.start when the money is found from the next review. Provided the
:36:49. > :36:53.coalition government is still in place in 2015, get in this scheme
:36:53. > :36:58.for the on the point that of no return, committed and starting, for
:36:58. > :37:04.the next General Election. That will be great for the residents and
:37:04. > :37:09.commercial travellers they get held up on the dreadful bottleneck.
:37:09. > :37:14.There are more bottlenecks on that road. If you sort that one out, you
:37:14. > :37:19.get caught up five miles down the road. It will not completely solve
:37:19. > :37:29.the problem? No. We have got to look at getting that whole link all
:37:29. > :37:29.
:37:29. > :37:35.the way down to Hastings better. It is a massive bottleneck which will
:37:35. > :37:41.be solved, hopefully with the ground being broken in 2015. Jason,
:37:41. > :37:47.are you up against this? We are not anti- road and anti-car. But every
:37:47. > :37:51.time you build a road, it to get -- it gets filled up. We need to find
:37:51. > :37:57.an alternative way to avoid pollution and congestion. If you
:37:57. > :38:01.were stuck in a traffic jam which has been reported you can run a
:38:01. > :38:06.more quickly between Tonbridge and Tunbridge Wells, if you are stuck
:38:06. > :38:14.in that, you would want something done? Yes. But why not look at
:38:14. > :38:18.alternative forms? Bus, rail. And we have got to the face facts more
:38:18. > :38:25.car use is not the answer. Thank you. Police forces across the South
:38:25. > :38:29.East are under pressure to spend a lot less by 2015. But the list --
:38:29. > :38:36.but the way he's Kent, Sussex and Surrey plan to achieve this is
:38:36. > :38:46.different. An investigation has realised Surrey Police spent 15
:38:46. > :38:48.
:38:48. > :38:52.times more on consultants than Kent last year.
:38:52. > :38:57.Good public perception of the police is crucial to their
:38:57. > :39:01.reputation. Would that reputation be damaged if they force relied
:39:01. > :39:08.heavily on external consultants who are paid for using taxpayer has'
:39:08. > :39:14.money? Sunday Politics made a Freedom of Information request to
:39:14. > :39:20.the force asking how much they spent on consultants. Kent Police
:39:20. > :39:27.spent �95,000 in the last financial year. That is down from 320 beds
:39:27. > :39:36.and pounds a year before. Sussex Police had turned to can --
:39:36. > :39:44.�320,000. Sussex Police turned to external consultants. Surrey Police
:39:44. > :39:49.spent 1,000 -- 1.5 million. A lot of money went on human resources.
:39:49. > :39:53.Some people are very critical of this. The people who understand
:39:53. > :39:57.where the spending is other people who were doing the spending. You
:39:57. > :40:01.would expect Surrey's expenditure to be in line with Kent and Sussex.
:40:01. > :40:06.You would think there would be parity. You would think the forces
:40:06. > :40:11.might share resources. But the facts the spend is so out of sync
:40:11. > :40:16.with the other two counties indicates a problem that needs
:40:16. > :40:24.explanation. A why is there such a difference? The Deputy Chief
:40:24. > :40:33.Constable of Sussex belief explained he is reluctant to use
:40:33. > :40:37.external consultants. -- Sussex Police. We do employ skilled people
:40:37. > :40:42.already. What changed his managing our relationship with consultants
:40:42. > :40:47.differ only. We questioned what they were doing for us and the
:40:48. > :40:52.value they were giving tours. I think it is about bringing them in
:40:52. > :40:56.for the skill base they bring. It is about getting rid of them once
:40:56. > :41:02.they have delivered the value. Police told us it has got plenty of
:41:02. > :41:07.talented staff in the organisation. They said they targeted it spent on
:41:07. > :41:12.consultants and aimed to move up to zero spend this year. In terms of
:41:12. > :41:16.budget cuts, it is not as if Surrey Police is under more pressure than
:41:16. > :41:22.other forces. Kent Police has to make �45 million of savings over
:41:22. > :41:27.four years. In real terms, this is 12% of their expenditure. Sussex
:41:27. > :41:35.Police needs to cut �51 million, which is 15%. Surrey Police needs
:41:35. > :41:38.to cut �30 million, which is 12%. With both Kent and Sussex saying
:41:38. > :41:44.they are unable to make the savings without spending more large amounts
:41:44. > :41:49.of money on consultants, why is Surrey going down this route? --
:41:49. > :41:55.able. One person hoping to run for political -- for police
:41:55. > :42:04.commissioner said it is political. This is ideologically driven. It is
:42:04. > :42:09.on the wrong side of common sense. You expect the private side to beat
:42:09. > :42:13.involved at some level but not to this extent. There are ways of
:42:13. > :42:17.saving money. Sussex and Kent seemed to be doing it. Surrey seem
:42:18. > :42:21.to have stepped into a dream world. They are spending a fortune. There
:42:21. > :42:26.is very little evidence it will save them money. Surrey Police,
:42:26. > :42:30.which plans to outsource many services, says it is using external
:42:30. > :42:35.consultants to make necessary spending cuts. Other forces are
:42:35. > :42:39.making the same level of savings at a fraction of the cost. While these
:42:39. > :42:45.are outside consultants -- art these outside consultants worth the
:42:45. > :42:48.money? Surrey Police said the force have
:42:48. > :42:58.undertaken a series of change programmes, including a move to
:42:58. > :43:27.
:43:27. > :43:30.Let us talk to my mind guests. Jason, the force this than the most,
:43:30. > :43:36.they are putting 200 and extra frontline police officers on the
:43:37. > :43:41.beat. That is what the police -- the public want? They are spending
:43:41. > :43:45.millions on external consultants. They are going down a road that is
:43:45. > :43:49.misguided. Privatising policing is going to undermined people was a
:43:49. > :43:54.confidence in the force. While there can be a need for specialist
:43:54. > :43:58.advice from a consultant, on the scale, it is unjustified. We can
:43:58. > :44:04.see the other counties taking a different path. If they are
:44:04. > :44:09.providing value for money, what does it matter about the
:44:09. > :44:13.philosophical answer? In the long term, if you look at the NHS,
:44:13. > :44:17.privatisation ends up being more risky and expensive. In the early
:44:17. > :44:22.days, you cannot be sure, in the long term, you know what the
:44:22. > :44:26.problems will be. It is hard to fight back against that. Once it is
:44:26. > :44:31.privatised, how do you put the genie back in the bottle? Paul, as
:44:31. > :44:36.a consequence, if they are able to put 200 extra people out there,
:44:36. > :44:45.maybe Kent and Sussex should spend more on external consultants?
:44:45. > :44:52.all about value for money, as you say. Surrey are doing a pilot
:44:52. > :45:02.project. That could potentially save them �5 million. It is about
:45:02. > :45:06.
:45:06. > :45:14.recurring costs. We all know in local government we are not having
:45:14. > :45:19.to save 12% over a couple of years, it is 30%. But your local police
:45:19. > :45:23.force, Kent, have managed to spend a fraction of the spend of Surrey.
:45:23. > :45:28.Who has got it right? If you can achieve those savings without
:45:28. > :45:33.throwing all that money at consultants, why would you do it?
:45:33. > :45:37.The Surrey project is part of a Home Office project that they have
:45:37. > :45:41.been encouraged to take part in. A bit of money has probably flowed
:45:41. > :45:45.from the Home Office to Surrey. Money could have come to us and
:45:45. > :45:51.reduced the depth of the cuts being imposed. Why is it being spent on
:45:51. > :45:56.private firms when it could be spent on delivering services?
:45:56. > :46:01.think it will be with massive financial restraint. Our duty is to
:46:01. > :46:05.make the best use of every penny. Outsourcing some of those services
:46:05. > :46:08.is part of that. If you look at the transformation in social care over
:46:08. > :46:14.the last 20 years, with private providers coming in, delivering
:46:14. > :46:21.good quality residential care, at roughly half cost of the public
:46:21. > :46:25.sector can deliver... Comeback to the police. Jason, frustrating we
:46:25. > :46:31.do not have the details of what they are spending the consultant
:46:31. > :46:35.fees on. It did seem like a staggering figure. They say that
:46:35. > :46:40.has resulted in savings of �4.5 million. That makes economic sense.
:46:40. > :46:44.Could it not have been done by in house people from some of the
:46:44. > :46:48.experts in the neighbouring forces? Why do they have to go private?
:46:48. > :46:54.Other forces were able to do this in house. There is a huge amount of
:46:54. > :46:59.expertise in the public sector. us turn a our attentions to that
:46:59. > :47:05.Green Party. Meat-free Mondays scrapped, parking rises reversed,
:47:05. > :47:09.and there are no at solar panels on council buildings. It has been a
:47:09. > :47:15.tricky year for Brighton and Hove's Green Party. There have been
:47:15. > :47:20.successes, too. On the anniversary of the country's first ever elected
:47:20. > :47:25.Green council, we ask, are your Greens really good for you? Jason,
:47:25. > :47:30.one year in power. How has it been? It has been a great experience. It
:47:30. > :47:34.has been difficult. We are facing difficult situations from the
:47:34. > :47:38.coalition government with the large-scale cuts that have been
:47:38. > :47:43.mentioned. We have brought in lots of positive things like building
:47:43. > :47:49.new council homes for the first time in decades and Rooney in over
:47:49. > :47:54.�8 million of investment for transport. -- are bringing in over.
:47:54. > :48:02.What is particularly green about the policies you have? The living
:48:02. > :48:05.wage, that is the left wing thing. It is a broad agenda and it is
:48:05. > :48:12.about social justice and environmental justice. The living
:48:12. > :48:17.wage is key. Let us pick up on something people might be surprised
:48:17. > :48:20.by. You have increased the price of allotments. What is green about
:48:20. > :48:24.that? There is demand for allotments. We are trying to
:48:24. > :48:28.protect allotments and open new ones. That costs money. A lot of
:48:28. > :48:35.materials are going to get a better service. You tried to increase
:48:35. > :48:41.parking charges. That is Green because it is anti- motorist. Were
:48:41. > :48:47.you shocked by the response? simplified the tariff. That was
:48:47. > :48:51.about a 5% rise. It has been successful. We are trying to push
:48:51. > :48:56.motorists to under used car parks. That is happening. There have been
:48:56. > :49:00.concerns. Any increase will not be popular. So far, we think it is
:49:00. > :49:05.working for us but I have your manifesto. What happened to,
:49:05. > :49:09.insulating every home in the city? That was one of your big Green
:49:09. > :49:13.policies? Unfortunately, the government took away what was the
:49:13. > :49:19.subsidy programme there. We are waiting on the Green deal. But it
:49:19. > :49:25.is not what they promised it to be. We are having to work in a
:49:25. > :49:28.difficult financial times. The Government are imposing this. And
:49:28. > :49:32.they are cutting at local government more. David Cameron
:49:32. > :49:41.promised he would lead to the green is government ever. Has he achieved
:49:41. > :49:46.that? -- greenest. We want to try and help residents in difficult
:49:46. > :49:51.times. We want to help them save energy and money. In the public
:49:51. > :49:54.sector, we want to lead by example in trying to make sure we reduce
:49:54. > :49:59.our energy consumption across public buildings, particularly
:49:59. > :50:06.schools, where there are some fabulous example projects. That
:50:06. > :50:14.will help to reduce the coast on ratepayers. How can we articulate
:50:14. > :50:21.the Government's Green deal? We need to explain it. They have
:50:21. > :50:30.struggled. Yes. It is a communication issue. What is on
:50:30. > :50:38.offer, though at Green Investment Bank about to be started -- of the
:50:38. > :50:48.Green Investment Bank, that will reduce energy costs. We all need to
:50:48. > :50:49.
:50:49. > :50:54.get behind the campaign. We need to spend less money on energy. We need
:50:54. > :50:58.to save the planet, as well. Jason is learning about the realities of
:50:59. > :51:02.being in power. You have been leader of Kent County Council for a
:51:02. > :51:11.number of years. What have been frustrations for you? What have you
:51:11. > :51:16.had to compromise on? I am a very impatient individual. I have had to
:51:16. > :51:24.compromise on the speed of change. We know where we want to go in Kent
:51:24. > :51:29.County Council. Some of the changes that are now underway, they were a
:51:29. > :51:34.long time coming. My predecessor had similar frustrations in the
:51:34. > :51:39.slowness of the public sector to be adjusted compared to the private
:51:39. > :51:43.sector. I am steeped in a private sector background. In trying to
:51:43. > :51:50.change the culture of getting things happening, I am pushing for
:51:50. > :51:55.this to deliver efficiencies and improve services. Let us look at
:51:55. > :52:01.the issue of leadership. You are about to become a leader, Jason.
:52:01. > :52:05.How much listening do you do to the public? If you did not complete a
:52:06. > :52:10.PhD in government consultations. You seem to want to consult. Is it
:52:10. > :52:16.not time to say, I am the leader, I will show you leadership.
:52:16. > :52:24.Absolutely, we need to make decisions. Given the challenging
:52:24. > :52:28.times local government face, we have to accept engagement is low
:52:28. > :52:33.and we need to build on that. People need to feel their money is
:52:33. > :52:40.being well spent and they have a part to play. Can I come in there?
:52:40. > :52:43.Very briefly. People have accused you of being too much of a leader.
:52:43. > :52:49.The conservation overkill that is paralysing government, the threat
:52:49. > :52:56.of judicial review, we are elected to lead. We must set the pace and
:52:56. > :53:02.take the direction. We have elections every four years. It just
:53:02. > :53:12.closed and the process. We do need to move on. We will now have a
:53:12. > :53:13.
:53:13. > :53:19.round-up of the week was my knees. -- week's news. It was good news
:53:19. > :53:22.for those who have campaigned for the widening of the road back. The
:53:22. > :53:30.Government says it is now a priority project will will not
:53:30. > :53:40.happen until after 2015. The bad news for the UK border agency. A
:53:40. > :53:40.
:53:40. > :53:47.damning report criticised Gatwick. They are trying to ensure the right
:53:47. > :53:52.minority of people are search. Immigration officers were among
:53:52. > :53:57.public sector workers who took part in Thursday's strike over pay,
:53:57. > :54:05.pensions and jobs. It may not be top of everyone's agenda and many
:54:05. > :54:10.Tories oppose it but we are embracing Lords reform. We need a
:54:10. > :54:20.Lords that is elected by people. Patronage is not something of the
:54:20. > :54:22.
:54:22. > :54:27.21st century. A Kent Conservative MP has
:54:27. > :54:31.described Lords reform as a ridiculous policy. Paul? I agree
:54:31. > :54:34.with Laura's sentiments. The country is a crisis at the moment
:54:34. > :54:41.and I don't think our parliamentarians should get bogged
:54:41. > :54:47.down in Lords reform at the moment. Jason? It should be direct Lee
:54:47. > :54:56.elected copy of. It is long overdue. OK, they Gatwick story. Who would