:01:40. > :01:45.And in the South East. Of should more of us be looking after our
:01:45. > :01:55.loved ones at home, as Kent County Council says it must spend less on
:01:55. > :01:55.
:01:55. > :29:55.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1680 seconds
:29:55. > :29:59.Coming up. What are companies are urged to trade with each other.
:29:59. > :30:04.What difference will it make when there were up -- when the ones that
:30:04. > :30:07.are sharing are all in drought? Joining the with there should bots
:30:07. > :30:11.are the Minister for Energy and climate change Greg Barker, he is
:30:11. > :30:17.the Conservative MP for Bexhill and Battle and the former MP for
:30:17. > :30:24.Gillingham and Rainham, Paul Clark. Let us start in East Sussex, which
:30:24. > :30:28.could still -- soup could soon get a new listing to celebrate its
:30:28. > :30:31.environments. They will be at the heart in -- they will be at the
:30:31. > :30:36.heart of the first biosphere reserve created an irritant for the
:30:36. > :30:41.last 35 years. This status has already gone to places like the
:30:41. > :30:46.Amazon rainforest, Paris, an illustrious list. His East Sussex
:30:46. > :30:50.right to try and get in and it? think they deserve the recognition.
:30:50. > :30:54.I grew up on the foot of the South Downs and so it is a very special
:30:54. > :30:59.place for me. It is somewhere that people come from round the world to
:30:59. > :31:09.see, so I would love to see proper recognition. Should Kent be trying
:31:09. > :31:10.
:31:10. > :31:15.to get in on the act? I certainly think that we have the North Downs
:31:15. > :31:20.and to a whole range of sides. I think this is important because
:31:20. > :31:24.this is focusing attention on the importance of our environment, that
:31:24. > :31:29.we needed to be careful of. We will keep an eye on this one. We will
:31:29. > :31:33.see how much money it brings in. Should more of us be looking after
:31:33. > :31:39.our loved ones at home? Kent County Council plans to cut the cost of
:31:39. > :31:43.adult social care, especially care homes, which cost �162 million a
:31:43. > :31:50.year. It is clear that they want more of us to be looked after in
:31:50. > :31:57.our own homes. -- in our own homes. Old people in Kent are being
:31:57. > :32:01.promised a better service for less money. Is that really true?
:32:01. > :32:05.Keen artist party could have stayed in her house, but she opted to live
:32:05. > :32:12.here in a Tunbridge Wells care home. She is 99 years old and enjoys
:32:12. > :32:17.being looked after. I loved this special praise for drawing. I could
:32:17. > :32:21.do this all day. Not having to get meals is lovely. You just go up
:32:21. > :32:25.there and your meal is ready for you. It is absolute bliss. It is
:32:25. > :32:29.nice to have company when you wanted. I go up and sit in the
:32:30. > :32:34.sitting room with the others. Kent County Council is changing its
:32:34. > :32:37.approach to adult social care with what it is calling a transformation
:32:37. > :32:41.programme. As part of that, residential care homes could become
:32:42. > :32:46.scarce. Kent County Council needs to make �200 million of budget cuts
:32:46. > :32:51.by 2015. One of the key areas it is targeting his adult social care
:32:51. > :32:57.spending. At the moment, a lot -- Al app proportion of that goes on
:32:57. > :33:04.Cameron's. The council spends three had and �52 million via an adult
:33:04. > :33:08.social care. The plans outlined a shift from
:33:08. > :33:12.residential care with paid staff to encourage people to stay in their
:33:12. > :33:16.homes cared for by unpaid friends and family. The way that it would
:33:17. > :33:21.appear is to keep people out in the communities, being looked after by
:33:21. > :33:27.families and carers as much as possible. Relying on the local
:33:27. > :33:31.community and family. Putting more pressure on families. There are a
:33:31. > :33:35.lot of people who need to come into care because they are lonely and
:33:35. > :33:45.because the demographics of how we live, families are not always
:33:45. > :33:45.
:33:45. > :33:48.living close by, so they go days without seeing someone. The council
:33:48. > :33:54.says that encouraging people to stay in their homes will preserve
:33:54. > :33:59.independence. Ron Edwards looks after his wife, who has dementia.
:33:59. > :34:03.He is her for it -- her full-time care and this is how he spends her
:34:03. > :34:07.day. I can hardly leave the room without her calling out to me, so I
:34:07. > :34:13.am really sitting here as you see now and she is sitting where she is
:34:13. > :34:18.sitting now, and that is how she spends her day, looking at me.
:34:18. > :34:24.couple get regular visits from care workers, like Mandy who works for a
:34:24. > :34:30.charitable organisation. A nice bit of cake care. Ron says having help
:34:30. > :34:33.is essential. You have got to. My next-door neighbour is important.
:34:33. > :34:38.The charitable organisations are important. I could not do it
:34:38. > :34:42.without them. There is one in particular I could not do without.
:34:42. > :34:46.I do not know how one would manage. In order for people to stay in
:34:46. > :34:51.their homes, they might need to be many more carers like Mandy to
:34:51. > :34:55.provide support. Some say there will be no option but to use agency
:34:55. > :35:00.staff, who come at a premium and therefore might cost more. The key
:35:01. > :35:07.agencies will charge a fee. We have come across occasions when they are
:35:07. > :35:10.paying the agency twice of the cost provided to the individual quirk --
:35:10. > :35:14.client. It is one of that worries we have about the whole
:35:14. > :35:17.transformation process. We do not know either of whether the capacity
:35:17. > :35:22.for care workers is there or whether the savings will be
:35:22. > :35:26.achieved. We had a parallel when the Government broke up the mental
:35:26. > :35:30.hospitals and provided for people to be living at home. It was
:35:30. > :35:37.thought that would be a cheaper option, in fact it turned out to be
:35:37. > :35:39.more expensive. The over 65 population is steadily increasing.
:35:39. > :35:44.How Kent County Council treats those who need care is going to
:35:44. > :35:47.become more important than ever. But is moving away from care homes
:35:47. > :35:54.and placing more responsibility on adults and their families the right
:35:54. > :35:58.approach? Joining us now from a Westminster
:35:58. > :36:02.studio is Graham Gibbens. Graham is the Cabinet member for adult social
:36:03. > :36:06.care in Kent. Thank you for being with us. It sounds like there is a
:36:06. > :36:12.shift in responsibility from you as a county council to us as
:36:12. > :36:16.individuals to look after individuals in their own homes.
:36:16. > :36:20.issue is that we're looking forward over the next 20 to 30 years and
:36:20. > :36:24.the number of people over 65 is going to increase by about 55 %.
:36:24. > :36:28.This means that we need to look at how we're going to care and support
:36:29. > :36:34.this increasing number of people. There is no intention that
:36:34. > :36:37.residential care homes will cease, up what we are looking at is how we
:36:37. > :36:41.can help people remain independent for as long as possible. Over a
:36:41. > :36:45.number of years, the consistent thing that people have said is that
:36:45. > :36:50.they would like to stay independent for as long as possible. This means
:36:50. > :36:55.of course providing the right support to those people. Let me
:36:56. > :36:58.pick up on that. Support is crucial. I appreciate what you're saying.
:36:59. > :37:04.And sure there are lots of people sitting at home saying they would
:37:04. > :37:09.rather be at home than in a care home, but those carers need help. I
:37:09. > :37:14.have spoken to carers who are suicidal. Carers who have become
:37:14. > :37:24.reliant on Apple. People in their forties who have no life on their
:37:24. > :37:26.
:37:26. > :37:29.own -- of their own. -- alcohol. The cares and these individuals
:37:29. > :37:34.need to know that you are going to look after them if there are not
:37:34. > :37:38.going to be places in care homes. am not saying there will not be
:37:38. > :37:44.places in care homes. I want to stress that we need to be looking
:37:44. > :37:50.at how we support carers more carefully and more strongly. I
:37:50. > :37:54.wanted to go on record now as saying I have a great debt of
:37:54. > :37:58.gratitude to the carers who care for other people in our community.
:37:58. > :38:04.It took a brilliant job and we need to think about how to support
:38:04. > :38:10.people to care for people more. not ask the questions, and saw
:38:10. > :38:14.them! Up we needed to be putting in place measures to ensure that the
:38:14. > :38:22.right sort of care is provided to enable carers to go on having their
:38:22. > :38:30.own activities so that they can stay healthy. In your report, you
:38:30. > :38:34.talk about fallen pit -- volunteers. Presumably, various charities. The
:38:34. > :38:36.offer respite yet -- respite care for carers. They say that their
:38:36. > :38:43.funding is at risk from the beginning of the next financial
:38:43. > :38:47.year. I would say to all those organisations that I firmly believe
:38:47. > :38:51.that coming out of this programme we will be using an supporting a
:38:51. > :38:55.volunteer are bright -- volunteer organisations a lot more than we do
:38:55. > :38:59.now, because I really understand and appreciate the contribution
:38:59. > :39:04.that we make -- that they make. can we support them when they do
:39:04. > :39:07.not have enough money to survive? That is why we're doing this
:39:07. > :39:12.transformation programmes. We need to look at all the services we
:39:12. > :39:16.provide and how we can do them more effectively. We need to sure that
:39:16. > :39:20.we do not have duplication of services and that we can support
:39:20. > :39:25.the voluntary sector, support carers, the voluntary sector can
:39:25. > :39:33.play a big part in helping carers do the job. How can we make that
:39:34. > :39:37.happen? How much do you plan to save from you but it? I cannot say.
:39:37. > :39:40.We are being really responsible by saying we're going to look at all
:39:40. > :39:44.the services we provide and look at them all and see how we can do them
:39:44. > :39:48.more efficiently. That means looking at working with health
:39:48. > :39:53.colics. How can we ensure that we are really making a care for people
:39:53. > :39:56.taking place in the Community's? How can we work with the
:39:56. > :40:03.commissioning groups to ensure that we are making sure that people are
:40:03. > :40:12.being provided for in their community? I would like to bring in
:40:12. > :40:17.our guests. Greg Barker, could you do what Ron Edwards does? Every
:40:17. > :40:21.time I see appear like Ron, it is extraordinary what they go through.
:40:21. > :40:25.Who knows which of us would really be up to that job. It is a roll the
:40:25. > :40:31.dice who that could be. It could happen to any of us and hopefully
:40:31. > :40:36.it will not. One of my closest family members was heroic in the
:40:36. > :40:41.way that she looked after my uncle. He had a very debilitating illness
:40:41. > :40:45.and for many years at home she looked after him until he had to go
:40:45. > :40:51.into full-time residential care. But many of us are growing older
:40:51. > :40:55.and being healthier for longer. It was wonderful to see Patti there at
:40:55. > :40:59.99 drawing and having a lovely quality of life and love in her
:40:59. > :41:02.care homes. But I think that most people if they are fit and healthy,
:41:02. > :41:08.they want to put off until the last minutes the point at which they
:41:08. > :41:12.going to appear once. The idea that happiness is a council-run care
:41:12. > :41:16.home in your own age is from another year. People want support
:41:17. > :41:26.and choice at it is about pink -- putting people first at the heart
:41:26. > :41:32.of these policies. Paul Clark, it is going to be hard to save money
:41:32. > :41:36.and offer a better service. Is it impossible? There is always room
:41:36. > :41:39.for improvement in the spending of any budget, what ever state you're
:41:39. > :41:47.at, so I recognise that but I have to say that with the increasing
:41:47. > :41:55.number of people of 65 and beyond, we are living healthier, but there
:41:55. > :42:00.will be demands. The increasing population, this is the cost. This
:42:00. > :42:05.will be a bigger issue than the financial crisis. You can only
:42:05. > :42:12.afford what you can afford. You have to get the very best value for
:42:12. > :42:17.money. 90 % of the money that Kent County Council spends on adult
:42:17. > :42:21.social care is already outsourced to the private sector. It does ask
:42:21. > :42:25.the question, whether you can get more out of that given pound. There
:42:25. > :42:30.will be some improvement possible, but it will not meet the
:42:30. > :42:35.requirements. The next stage of the transformation is in a few weeks'
:42:35. > :42:40.time. Blazing sunshine, preceded by weeks
:42:40. > :42:44.of pouring rain. The British weather is certainly living up to
:42:44. > :42:48.its celebrated vagaries. We are still officially in drought in the
:42:48. > :42:53.South East. OFWAT published a report this month saying that water
:42:53. > :42:58.sharing is the way forward. I do not mean having a bath together.
:42:58. > :43:01.This is a water share on a much bigger scale. Currently 95 % of
:43:01. > :43:06.water in the South East is moved around in this way, but is that
:43:06. > :43:10.enough to make a difference? When they're all endowed, that cannot be
:43:10. > :43:19.enough to make a difference. In the are all injured, it will be very
:43:19. > :43:23.difficult. But there is a lot we can do. Not just for now, but there
:43:23. > :43:28.is a lot we can do in the longer term. People often ask me why we
:43:28. > :43:32.cannot just pipe down all that water that we know is up and the
:43:32. > :43:35.north, where it is plentiful, bring it to the south? Of course,
:43:35. > :43:39.technically that is possible, but it would be hugely expensive to
:43:39. > :43:43.create a sort of National Grid for water. That would mean that
:43:43. > :43:47.people's water bills would go up very substantially. What we can do
:43:47. > :43:51.much more effectively and much more cheaply, so we do not put up
:43:51. > :44:00.people's utility bills, is get greater Connectivity between
:44:00. > :44:04.regions. Are you talking about pipes between? Water flows. Making
:44:04. > :44:09.sure that where there is a natural water-based that we do not -- that
:44:09. > :44:13.we do make sure that the flow into each other. So that there is
:44:13. > :44:17.greater connectivity between our canals, rivers, our reservoirs are
:44:17. > :44:21.more joined-up and so that we do not see each water authority as a
:44:21. > :44:25.little island on its own. To an extent, that is how it is at the
:44:25. > :44:29.moment and that is how it has always been. We need them all to
:44:29. > :44:35.come together at much more coherently. It is a big issue at
:44:35. > :44:39.the moment. But died really happens more than once a decade. Do you
:44:39. > :44:47.think that people would be prepared to pay more? -- drought rarely
:44:47. > :44:52.happens more than once a decade. think we need to do things like
:44:52. > :44:56.reduce leakage and improve systems in that way. OFWAT has some
:44:56. > :45:02.leverage there to improve internal Likud. Everyone who is watching
:45:02. > :45:08.this programme, or we all have to recognise that water is not going
:45:08. > :45:13.to be there on tap as it has been so we do need to do that. There are
:45:13. > :45:16.some other things. I know that some of the farming lobby used a lot of
:45:16. > :45:21.water in what they have -- and what they're saying is give us
:45:21. > :45:27.permission to have on farm reservoirs that would not take
:45:27. > :45:31.water from the general supply. All those sort of things. But the
:45:31. > :45:35.planning requirements are cumbersome. What about incentives?
:45:35. > :45:39.At the moment are there enough incentives for the water companies
:45:39. > :45:43.to trade? Because there are incentives to drill holes and build
:45:43. > :45:47.reservoirs. It is not so much to trade it, it is about having
:45:47. > :45:53.greater connectivity between the two. Paul is right. There is a lot
:45:53. > :45:57.we can do about saving water at home. Is it really necessary to
:45:57. > :46:05.wash our clothes, are dishwasher and flush the loo with drinking
:46:05. > :46:09.water? So we have grey water? last house I had a rainwater
:46:09. > :46:15.harvester in that is what I used to water the garden with. Even for
:46:15. > :46:19.using your house pipe in the garden, when there is not a ban, we're
:46:19. > :46:22.doing it with drinking quality water. It makes you sound much more
:46:22. > :46:29.a man of the people than the ministers who have sprung dance for
:46:29. > :46:39.it at home. Let us take a round-up of the
:46:39. > :46:40.
:46:40. > :46:45.There was an angry reaction from motorists as the Government
:46:45. > :46:51.announced it is increasing tolls at the Dartford crossing by her third
:46:51. > :46:53.in October and again two years later.
:46:53. > :46:56.The work and Pensions Secretary Ian Duncan Smith went to a conference
:46:57. > :47:02.at Maidstone. Youth unemployment in Kent has
:47:02. > :47:05.doubled. The whole of and Portslade MPs
:47:05. > :47:09.thought back up from the Prime Minister in the number of -- on the
:47:09. > :47:13.number of spotters ticking up residency in his constituency.
:47:13. > :47:18.think it is important that homeowners have protection against
:47:18. > :47:23.people stealing their property. And Tory MPs are usually told the
:47:23. > :47:28.Government line but the Member for Hastings and Rye and South Thanet
:47:28. > :47:33.joined more than two dozen MPs in a cross-party revolt against the
:47:33. > :47:37.Chancellor's plans to oppose the peak -- VAT on started caravans.
:47:37. > :47:44.They are not thinking of the next holiday, they say it will lead to
:47:44. > :47:49.thousands of job losses. Let us pick up on the Dartford
:47:49. > :47:56.tolls. People feel really betrayed on this one. As a former Kent ten p,
:47:56. > :48:03.under Labour we were told to that of the crossing would be free. And
:48:03. > :48:07.yet, at the toll was kept. That is a betrayal. What we said was that
:48:07. > :48:13.by 2003 the cost would be paid for. Clearly there were maintenance
:48:13. > :48:17.charges that carry on but what we introduced was a charge because of
:48:17. > :48:21.congestion. I know he will find this difficult, but I can tell you
:48:21. > :48:26.that all the modelling showed that there would be a seven % increase
:48:26. > :48:34.in the levels of traffic there have the tools disappeared. That is an
:48:34. > :48:43.issue. But people are going to be paying �25 now it every week to go
:48:43. > :48:50.to work. You can buy attack, but what is interesting is that there
:48:50. > :48:55.is a 50p increase that is happening immediately for nothing in return,
:48:55. > :49:00.the 50p increase that happened back in 2008 was the first in years. But
:49:00. > :49:04.there is going to be a 50p increase this year for nothing in return but
:49:04. > :49:10.interestingly does two p in advance are also going to have a 33 %
:49:10. > :49:13.increase, which we did not introduce. Is this something your
:49:14. > :49:19.constituents come to you about? Absolutely. It always seems bizarre
:49:19. > :49:25.to people that their home can be invaded, that they can effectively
:49:25. > :49:28.have their home invaded and find themselves powerless. Whether it is