:01:21. > :01:26.In the south-east, are you ready for a virtual hospital ward in your
:01:26. > :01:36.home? We look at radical plans to change their face of health care in
:01:36. > :01:36.
:01:36. > :31:33.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1797 seconds
:31:33. > :31:39.I'm Natalie Graham and this is the Sunday Politics in the south-east.
:31:39. > :31:41.Coming up in the next 20 minutes: Degree or no degree? That's the
:31:42. > :31:47.question facing thousands of south- east students as figures suggest
:31:47. > :31:50.higher tuition fees have led to a drop in university applications.
:31:50. > :31:55.Joining me in the studio today is Conservative MP for South Thanet,
:31:55. > :31:59.Laura Sandys, and south-east MEP and UKIP Leader, Nigel Farage.
:31:59. > :32:04.We'll start with a subject close to Laura's heart - the future of food
:32:04. > :32:11.production. The Government's Green Food Project was being promoted in
:32:11. > :32:14.Kent this week by the Environment Secretary Caroline Spelman. For the
:32:14. > :32:17.project has been looking at different ways of producing more
:32:17. > :32:21.food but you are not 100% happy with the way the initiative has
:32:21. > :32:24.been carried out. I am pleased that there is a new emphasis on food and
:32:24. > :32:29.food production but what is interesting is how the Department
:32:29. > :32:34.looks, they never really talked to the consumer. It is crucial when I
:32:34. > :32:40.have got family it in Thanet in particular, we are talking about
:32:40. > :32:43.five, six, 7% food price increases year-on-year, and we must but the
:32:43. > :32:48.consumer at the heart of the food policy and really ensure that we
:32:48. > :32:52.are giving them the support to make less go further. This was all about
:32:52. > :32:56.increasing food production and improving the environment. One of
:32:56. > :33:00.the suggestions, Nigel, is that we should grow different crops like
:33:00. > :33:06.spices and chick peas. Would you like that in the Garden of England?
:33:06. > :33:09.Anything with the word "Green" in it, be suspicious, because it
:33:09. > :33:13.usually means it will be a waste of time and cost a fortune and be
:33:14. > :33:17.subsidised by the taxpayer, but what and -- what I can make out
:33:17. > :33:22.from this particular idea, unlike wind turbines, which cost a fortune,
:33:22. > :33:26.the idea is to encourage farmers to grow different crops but not give a
:33:26. > :33:31.subsidy to do it, that the farmers decide. The Government do not
:33:31. > :33:36.interfere. We need to produce more in the UK, we are the biggest
:33:36. > :33:41.importer of food in the developed world. I actually think that is
:33:41. > :33:49.quite a precarious place to be. So go out, grow more and eat good,
:33:49. > :33:51.English food. Thank you both very much for now.
:33:52. > :33:55.Patients in Kent and East Sussex could soon receive hospital
:33:55. > :33:58.treatment in their own homes, when new health care plans take effect.
:33:58. > :34:01.It's part of a drive to move services out of wards and into the
:34:01. > :34:11.community. But critics say the new system is too ambitious and could
:34:11. > :34:19.
:34:19. > :34:24.put undue pressure on GPs. Helen Nurse's care and finesse that are
:34:24. > :34:29.in a team in East Kent called hospital at home. -- Clare and the
:34:29. > :34:33.Benesova. It is part of what is called a virtual war, travelling to
:34:33. > :34:37.patients houses, rather than going to hospital. Today they are
:34:37. > :34:43.checking on Pat, who need help after a shoulder operation. It is
:34:43. > :34:47.brilliant, I would much rather do this than go into hospital. I mean,
:34:47. > :34:50.it is good being there, because you have it there, but this service,
:34:50. > :34:53.you couldn't faltered. There are plans to do much more of this in
:34:53. > :34:57.Kent, with the focus on keeping people out of hospital and looking
:34:57. > :35:01.after them at home or in their communities where possible. These
:35:01. > :35:09.plans were lodged in Dover with the help of the Health Secretary Andrew
:35:09. > :35:13.Lansley. It doesn't make the actual decisions on health care at Kent
:35:13. > :35:17.Health Commission, but it helps our the allocation will be divided.
:35:17. > :35:22.Instead of being spent in hospital, many will be spent on trying to
:35:22. > :35:25.keep people out of hospitals. But there are concerns. I think the
:35:25. > :35:30.aspiration to have people treated more in the community than in a
:35:30. > :35:35.hospital is a good concept and should be pursued, but they think
:35:35. > :35:41.it is a very over ambitious exercise which has not been costed
:35:41. > :35:46.or planned. They tell us there is �59 million to be taken out of the
:35:46. > :35:49.hospital service. That is a lot of money and that means some things
:35:50. > :35:54.are not going to be done that are currently being done, but they have
:35:54. > :35:58.not identified those. I don't think it has been thought all the way
:35:58. > :36:01.through and it certainly hasn't been consulted on. What sets Kent's
:36:02. > :36:06.plans aside from everywhere else in the country is it is bringing local
:36:06. > :36:10.councils into the decision process. The charity the King's Fund, which
:36:10. > :36:17.improves -- worked on improving the health system in England, says no
:36:17. > :36:24.other Trust has taken this approach, but support is also needed from GPs.
:36:24. > :36:29.It increases the pressure on GPs not to refer. It increases the
:36:29. > :36:31.anxiety of those GPs who struggle with that sort of thing. There are
:36:31. > :36:35.certainly worries that it is correct -- placing a greater
:36:35. > :36:45.responsibility on our shoulders and if things go wrong, we will be held
:36:45. > :36:46.
:36:46. > :36:51.accountable. One can take a very safe course and throw a lot of
:36:51. > :36:55.permissions, and share responsibility, so that does
:36:56. > :37:01.increase anxiety. Over in East Sussex, they are planning a similar
:37:01. > :37:05.sheet to community health care, led by a new body called Sussex
:37:05. > :37:08.Together. It is creating a health care strategy for the county. But
:37:08. > :37:14.will another layer between the patient and actual doctors and
:37:14. > :37:18.nurses make it hard to understand what is going on? Incredibly hard.
:37:18. > :37:23.Sussex Together almost appeared out of nowhere. I am not sure when, I
:37:23. > :37:26.think under a year ago. I am not entirely sure who is held
:37:26. > :37:32.accountable there. Like a lot of changes that have been going on in
:37:32. > :37:36.the NHS for many years, it appears that every 10 months or so, a brand
:37:36. > :37:40.new organisation suddenly materialises. Does this remove the
:37:40. > :37:44.patient even further from decisions? It does, in my view.
:37:44. > :37:49.Patients across the south-east. To see new ways of working soon. Here
:37:49. > :37:54.in Kent, changes are being made to move towards hat -- community
:37:54. > :37:58.health care and over in Sussex, a similar move is planned. But
:37:58. > :38:01.critics say it will need more resources, so is a widespread move
:38:01. > :38:05.to a community health care realistic? Or will it create more
:38:05. > :38:10.pressure on GPs and distant patients from having a say on how
:38:10. > :38:12.they are looked after? Helen Drew reporting. Joining me
:38:13. > :38:15.from our Dover studio is Conservative MP for Dover and Deal,
:38:16. > :38:19.Charlie Elphicke - one of the key members of the Kent Health
:38:19. > :38:24.Commission. Let's address the concerns raised by Dr Meech first
:38:24. > :38:28.of all. GPs will feel under pressure not to refer patients -
:38:28. > :38:31.that's not in their interests or patients' interests. Actually, I
:38:31. > :38:37.think that is complete nonsense. What we are looking at at Kent
:38:37. > :38:42.Health Commission is making it easier to get health care treatment
:38:42. > :38:47.for patients. It is nice and easy if you are in a GP, just referring
:38:47. > :38:54.off to hospital at a whim, which happens so often at the moment...
:38:54. > :38:59.Hang on, at a whim? For us in Dover, that means a 40 minute trip down
:38:59. > :39:03.the motorway... But if you are a general practitioner, you are not
:39:03. > :39:07.an expert in all illnesses. If you have a patient you're not sure
:39:07. > :39:11.about and you want a second opinion, surely it is in their best
:39:11. > :39:13.interests to send them to hospital. What we want to see is the new
:39:13. > :39:19.health facility in Dover which will make it so much more accessible for
:39:19. > :39:23.people to get the health care treatment they need to have, and
:39:23. > :39:27.you can talk to a consultant on the telephone or indeed have an
:39:27. > :39:31.Internet connection and discuss with them in your own home, that is
:39:31. > :39:34.increasing accessibility and saving people long journeys to hospital.
:39:34. > :39:40.So we need to look at how we can use technology best to make it
:39:40. > :39:44.easier for the patients. Under lot of people will be agreeing that it
:39:44. > :39:49.is better to have an patients treated at home rather than in
:39:49. > :39:59.hospital. Are you suggesting that Dr Beeching is in the minority? He
:39:59. > :40:03.
:40:03. > :40:07.does represent 1,500 GPs -- Dr Meech. I had a meeting with GPs
:40:07. > :40:11.recently and we sat about talking how we could use technology,
:40:11. > :40:14.getting ahead of people being ill, because you know who is most likely
:40:14. > :40:19.to have an illness and you can treat them preventative live. I
:40:19. > :40:24.think that is really positive and the way we should be managing NHS
:40:24. > :40:30.resources. Can I just ask about the other question Leslie Christie
:40:30. > :40:34.raised, that �59 million is being taken away from hospitals had been
:40:34. > :40:38.put into this community models. What impact will that have on
:40:39. > :40:42.hospitals? I think it will be a positive impact. We are talking
:40:42. > :40:47.about 2% of the entire span. We are not talking in health service terms
:40:47. > :40:51.about the large proportion of money. If that keep people out of hospital,
:40:51. > :40:56.if it means that people are treated before they get ill, it will have
:40:56. > :40:59.more prevention and we will know people will be better off. This is
:40:59. > :41:03.a pioneering system and one of only two places and the country where it
:41:03. > :41:08.is being introduced at the moment. -- in the country. What would
:41:08. > :41:11.happen if doctors Don't do as they expect you to -- you expect them to
:41:11. > :41:16.do, and they don't refer people to hospitals and the money is not
:41:16. > :41:20.there to treat them? What I can say is that after meeting with the GPs
:41:20. > :41:26.yesterday in this area, many are excited about the potential...
:41:26. > :41:28.Those of the GPs you have spoken to in that area. There are other GPs
:41:28. > :41:32.who are concerned about what would happen if they refer patients to
:41:32. > :41:39.hospital. If GPs choose to refer patients to hospital, they have the
:41:39. > :41:42.absolute right to, GPs are in charge of how to treat those
:41:42. > :41:46.patients and the treatment they should have, to a much greater
:41:46. > :41:50.extent than they previously did. This system is set up so they don't
:41:50. > :41:56.refer patients, that is my point. The point I'm trying to make his it
:41:56. > :42:00.is better if you can get in ahead of a patient being ill and saving
:42:00. > :42:03.them having to go for an acute operation procedure, and it is much
:42:03. > :42:07.more cost-effective and efficient to treat people first if you can.
:42:07. > :42:11.That is a really positive way forward. Thank you, stay there for
:42:11. > :42:16.now, and I would like to introduce it My guests. Laura, prevention is
:42:16. > :42:19.better than cure? I think we are trying to put the patient at the
:42:19. > :42:23.heart of this and I haven't met that many people, particularly the
:42:23. > :42:27.elderly, who are excited about going into hospital. What they want
:42:27. > :42:32.as much as possible is to be treated at home, or at their GP's
:42:32. > :42:37.surgery. They want to be cared for in their own environment. A
:42:37. > :42:39.hospital does not equate for patient choice, 90% of the time.
:42:39. > :42:45.But if doctors are not convinced this is the right way forward,
:42:45. > :42:48.Niger, are you concerned? It must be worth trying. Over the last 15
:42:48. > :42:53.years, we have poured more money into the NHS and not necessarily
:42:53. > :42:56.got a better result, and frankly, to hear a GP, after the massive pay
:42:56. > :43:00.rises they got under the last government, say that he doesn't
:43:00. > :43:04.like this because it will give him increased responsibility, well, I
:43:04. > :43:07.am very sorry. They have stopped coming out at night, stopped coming
:43:07. > :43:10.out at weekends, they have one of the most incredible salary and
:43:10. > :43:15.pension deals anywhere in the public sector. Take some
:43:15. > :43:18.responsibility. Laura, you are agreeing, but as I mentioned to
:43:18. > :43:23.Charlie Elphicke, it is the responsibility that GPs has to
:43:23. > :43:26.assess a patient properly. I don't think any GP will not possess a
:43:26. > :43:30.patient properly and when it is right for a patient to go to
:43:30. > :43:34.hospital, they will not refer them. It is just that we have more
:43:34. > :43:37.options and more ability to treat people at home where they want to
:43:37. > :43:43.be treated and I think that is rarely good news. Thank you both
:43:43. > :43:46.and then queue Charlie Delphic in As anxious students await their A-
:43:46. > :43:48.level results, new figures out this week show that university
:43:48. > :43:52.applications from the south-east have dropped by around 10% compared
:43:52. > :43:55.to this time last year. The number of people hoping to go on to higher
:43:55. > :43:58.education in the region has also fallen, with Surrey and Brighton
:43:58. > :44:02.suffering the heaviest drops. Brighton is blaming rising tuition
:44:02. > :44:12.fees. But is this reduction in applications necessarily a bad
:44:12. > :44:16.
:44:16. > :44:19.thing? Nigel for Reg? -- Nigel for . Brighton has had drop out rate of
:44:19. > :44:24.10%, so fewer people are applying and drop out rates fall, it is not
:44:24. > :44:28.necessarily a bad thing. I have strongly felt and UKIP have felt
:44:28. > :44:35.that this target that we ought to send 50% of all by youngsters the
:44:35. > :44:40.university, that all of the parties have supported, frankly has been
:44:40. > :44:44.nonsense. I blame that BT advert with Maureen Lipman, that we have
:44:44. > :44:51.to go to university and get something it used first! You where
:44:51. > :44:55.gays tuition fees. Is this a consequence you foresaw -- you were
:44:55. > :44:58.against tuition fees. We had the highest number of applications for
:44:58. > :45:01.universities, so it may have dropped from last year but last
:45:01. > :45:05.year was very high, so it is not as dramatic as it is maybe being
:45:05. > :45:09.portrayed, but secondly, we have got things like high-end
:45:09. > :45:12.apprenticeships, when people are doing a year in an engineering
:45:12. > :45:17.company and being sent by that company to university, where there
:45:17. > :45:21.is a career path already there. people can decide they are better
:45:21. > :45:24.off not going to university? Some of these universities might be
:45:25. > :45:28.charging too much for what they are offering. They have all gone to
:45:28. > :45:31.9,000. They should be offering students a wider choice, that is
:45:31. > :45:37.why there should be a lot more availability, a lot more choice for
:45:38. > :45:42.the student, not just at the University... As institutions, they
:45:42. > :45:46.are valuable for the economy, let alone to the students. In Sussex,
:45:46. > :45:49.that there has been a huge rise of international students. If people
:45:49. > :45:54.outside of Europe are coming to study, is it something that would
:45:54. > :45:58.concern you? If it is being run as a business and that the country, we
:45:58. > :46:02.are making money, that is fantastic. What worries me, though, is this
:46:02. > :46:04.very week the Government has said it wants student numbers coming in
:46:04. > :46:09.and out of the country to be excluded from the immigration
:46:09. > :46:13.figures. One of the big problems we have got is we just don't know how
:46:13. > :46:17.many foreign students to come to this country stay or leave. So I am
:46:17. > :46:21.all for foreign students coming, provided that it is not being used
:46:21. > :46:26.for a backdoor immigration rid. certainly isn't. A but we don't
:46:26. > :46:31.know. For example, in Thanet, we have a lot of the English language
:46:31. > :46:34.schools, a lot of coastal towns. We have been quite clear with
:46:34. > :46:37.government that actually we need to ensure that those numbers to come
:46:37. > :46:41.out of the overall government numbers, because it is actually
:46:41. > :46:47.affecting local businesses quite dramatically. But the Government
:46:47. > :46:52.said the opposite. But we must count them out as well as Kent then
:46:52. > :46:55.in. There government says it does not intend to do that anymore.
:46:55. > :46:58.of the things that has come out of the figures that is quite
:46:58. > :47:03.interesting is disadvantaged students, poorer students, haven't
:47:03. > :47:08.been affected by the rising tuition fees. Absurdity. We put in a huge
:47:08. > :47:13.amount of provision to support students from lower incomes --
:47:13. > :47:16.absolutely. And it is something that the schools are putting in a
:47:17. > :47:24.lot of support for, encouraging those young people to get
:47:24. > :47:29.university. They will not have to pay a penny back. Until they get to
:47:29. > :47:36.�21,000 in their salary. So we have got much better scheme that
:47:36. > :47:40.delivers... I think if you are right at the bottom of the social
:47:40. > :47:45.economic income scale, that is true, but as ever, it is people in the
:47:45. > :47:49.middle who get caught. I would send fewer students than I wouldn't
:47:49. > :47:54.charge them. But poorer students are still three times less likely
:47:54. > :47:57.to go to university than their richer counterparts. In Kent, we
:47:57. > :48:00.have through the grammar school system where we are getting more
:48:00. > :48:04.social mobility, that is encouraging. People from all sorts
:48:04. > :48:08.of backgrounds. I think it is absolutely essential that we look
:48:08. > :48:11.at those family is coming from lower income families who are not
:48:11. > :48:17.used to go to university within their family, we have to encourage
:48:17. > :48:27.them to go. All right. Now it is time for a round-up of the events
:48:27. > :48:28.
:48:28. > :48:31.The Government announced yet another delay to public
:48:31. > :48:35.consultation on the future of airport capacity. Bit frustrated
:48:35. > :48:38.supporters and opponents of the plans, which go to the world's
:48:38. > :48:42.largest airport built and the Thames Estuary or a second runway
:48:42. > :48:45.at Gatwick. One of 200 dairy farmers and the
:48:45. > :48:49.south-east are to the streets of London to call on the Government to
:48:50. > :48:54.stop supermarkets hold and then to ransom by cutting the price of milk.
:48:54. > :49:00.Several Kent MPs were among the 91 Tories who rebelled over Lords
:49:00. > :49:03.reform. I filled his -- bitterly disappointed that I am voting
:49:03. > :49:09.against my party, sick to the pit of my stomach.
:49:09. > :49:12.The MPs voted for family-friendly hours, ending all but one of
:49:12. > :49:18.Westminster's late-night sessions. Caroline Lucas call for a better
:49:18. > :49:22.work-like balance. I think people are entitled for that -- to that,
:49:22. > :49:32.even MPs. At least they have the next seven weeks off to concentrate
:49:32. > :49:37.on getting the balance right. Now, he would like to have seven
:49:38. > :49:41.weeks of? Laura, what are you going to do with your time? I get
:49:41. > :49:44.irritated when people say we are on holiday. We do a huge amount of
:49:44. > :49:47.work in the constituency and I am not taking any time off between now
:49:48. > :49:54.and September, so you will see me on the streets of Thanet without a
:49:54. > :49:57.problem. Nigel? I shall be all over the UK and all over Europe as well!
:49:57. > :50:05.Continuing my Billy Graham like crusade against the European Union,
:50:05. > :50:06.so no rest. Caroline Lucas was talking about work life balance. Do
:50:07. > :50:10.you think the things that Westminster need correcting?
:50:10. > :50:14.voted for the change in hours because I prefer to go home on a
:50:14. > :50:19.Tuesday evening and work from home. I don't think we are going to find
:50:19. > :50:23.that... On the whole we need to work around 90 hours a week, so why
:50:23. > :50:27.won't be reducing my hours, just doing them in different places.
:50:27. > :50:30.have taken all of the drama and the fun out of Westminster, the late-
:50:30. > :50:34.night votes and the late-night sitting and the things that the
:50:34. > :50:37.public and the voters actually found interesting. The voters
:50:37. > :50:41.actually found it interesting and we have turned it into a family
:50:41. > :50:45.friendly, nine-to-five job and given that it is going to be closed
:50:45. > :50:50.for three months over the summer, I don't know... How has of Lords
:50:50. > :50:54.reform, do you think we will see it again? I think it is the proverbial
:50:54. > :50:58.Monty Python dead parrot. It is not going to come back in this
:50:58. > :51:03.Parliament. I disagree, I have been an advocate for 20 years that we
:51:03. > :51:06.could actually have a democracy where we could vote for people in a
:51:06. > :51:13.our legislature. It seems like a wacky idea. They cannot agree the
:51:13. > :51:17.terms, it is not going to happen. It is a huge majority in parliament.